❓ Opposition Leader Barnett questions the accuracy of the Minister's cost estimates for the Mandurah rail line, accusing her of mismanagement and lack of transparency. The Minister defends the cost estimation process, highlighting its reliance on expert advice and industry standards.
AnsweredQoN 1194Legislative Assembly
QuestionView source ↗
I refer the minister to her media statement yesterday about the southern rail link, which states - The costs for all the major packages on the Mandurah rail line will be finalised by the end of the year. The minister stated that until then there was no point in engaging in speculation. (1) Will the minister now admit that figures issued in a press release in May this year indicating that the total cost of the railway would be $1.419 billion are, therefore, nothing but speculation? (2) How can the minister continue to claim that the cost of the southern rail link will not blow out when those costs have not been finalised? (3) Is this simply a case of the minister again attempting to hide yet another cost blow-out on a project that she has mismanaged from the beginning, which flies in the face of government accountability? Ms A.J. MacTIERNAN
AnswerView source ↗
(1)-(3) I know that members who have engaged in budget banditry find it very difficult to grasp the requirements of probity in contractual dealing. However, I am happy to take the Leader of the Opposition through some basic principles of how contracts are costed and managed to protect the public interest. Every civil construction project that has ever been done in this State has followed a similar trajectory. We make a strategic decision that we want a particular project. Whether it be the Graham Farmer Freeway, the duplication of the Narrows Bridge or an enlightened rail project, the process is the same: we make a strategic decision. We then obtain professional advice on the cost of the project before we make the final determination. We go to the leading consultancy firms, as well as our own in-house experts, and we get advice on the cost of the project. In this case, the costings on the project were done by a series of engineering firms, including Evans and Peck Management, a firm that was used extensively by the previous Government in its costings for the Northbridge tunnel and the Graham Farmer Freeway. The concept that our costings are based purely on speculation is nonsense. These costings have been done after an elaborate and exhaustive analysis by senior engineering firms in Perth, with the assistance of many rail experts from around Australia. At the end of the day, a cost estimate is a cost estimate. It is not until we have a firm fixed-price contract that we can say absolutely what will be the final price of the contract. Mr C.J. Barnett: So you have no idea! The SPEAKER: Order! Ms A.J. MacTIERNAN: It is the same for any project. There is no other way of going about it. We get a detailed costing from engineers who are competent and capable of providing the best possible advice to government. The ultimate test is when it goes out to contract. What we require for this project is fixed-price contracts. I am very confident that we will get within that range for our project. Mr C.J. Barnett: It is a range now! We are in a range! The SPEAKER: Order! Ms A.J. MacTIERNAN: Of course it is a range. It is astounding that the Leader of the Opposition would imagine that a project could be done otherwise. Can the Leader of the Opposition tell us how his projects were done? Dr G.I. Gallop: There were no projects! Ms A.J. MacTIERNAN: It is extraordinary that this same process was acceptable for the Graham Farmer Freeway, the extension of the Kwinana Freeway and the duplication of the Narrows Bridge, but somehow this standard, normal process that has been in place for decades is not acceptable for this project. We are very confident that we will come within that range. Of course I can never guarantee that it will be exactly $1.419 billion, and neither can anyone else, but we have taken the best professional advice available. As I have said to the member for Carine, once we have finished the negotiating process and will no longer jeopardise our negotiating position by releasing that information, I will be happy to table that advice.
(1) Will the minister now admit that figures issued in a press release in May this year indicating that the total cost of the railway would be $1.419 billion are, therefore, nothing but speculation? (2) How can the minister continue to claim that the cost of the southern rail link will not blow out when those costs have not been finalised? (3) Is this simply a case of the minister again attempting to hide yet another cost blow-out on a project that she has mismanaged from the beginning, which flies in the face of government accountability? Ms A.J. MacTIERNAN replied: (1)-(3) I know that members who have engaged in budget banditry find it very difficult to grasp the requirements of probity in contractual dealing. However, I am happy to take the Leader of the Opposition through some basic principles of how contracts are costed and managed to protect the public interest. Every civil construction project that has ever been done in this State has followed a similar trajectory. We make a strategic decision that we want a particular project. Whether it be the Graham Farmer Freeway, the duplication of the Narrows Bridge or an enlightened rail project, the process is the same: we make a strategic decision. We then obtain professional advice on the cost of the project before we make the final determination. We go to the leading consultancy firms, as well as our own in-house experts, and we get advice on the cost of the project. In this case, the costings on the project were done by a series of engineering firms, including Evans and Peck Management, a firm that was used extensively by the previous Government in its costings for the Northbridge tunnel and the Graham Farmer Freeway. The concept that our costings are based purely on speculation is nonsense. These costings have been done after an elaborate and exhaustive analysis by senior engineering firms in Perth, with the assistance of many rail experts from around Australia. At the end of the day, a cost estimate is a cost estimate. It is not until we have a firm fixed-price contract that we can say absolutely what will be the final price of the contract. Mr C.J. Barnett: So you have no idea! The SPEAKER: Order! Ms A.J. MacTIERNAN: It is the same for any project. There is no other way of going about it. We get a detailed costing from engineers who are competent and capable of providing the best possible advice to government. The ultimate test is when it goes out to contract. What we require for this project is fixed-price contracts. I am very confident that we will get within that range for our project. Mr C.J. Barnett: It is a range now! We are in a range! The SPEAKER: Order! Ms A.J. MacTIERNAN: Of course it is a range. It is astounding that the Leader of the Opposition would imagine that a project could be done otherwise. Can the Leader of the Opposition tell us how his projects were done? Dr G.I. Gallop: There were no projects! Ms A.J. MacTIERNAN: It is extraordinary that this same process was acceptable for the Graham Farmer Freeway, the extension of the Kwinana Freeway and the duplication of the Narrows Bridge, but somehow this standard, normal process that has been in place for decades is not acceptable for this project. We are very confident that we will come within that range. Of course I can never guarantee that it will be exactly $1.419 billion, and neither can anyone else, but we have taken the best professional advice available. As I have said to the member for Carine, once we have finished the negotiating process and will no longer jeopardise our negotiating position by releasing that information, I will be happy to table that advice.
(2) How can the minister continue to claim that the cost of the southern rail link will not blow out when those costs have not been finalised? (3) Is this simply a case of the minister again attempting to hide yet another cost blow-out on a project that she has mismanaged from the beginning, which flies in the face of government accountability? Ms A.J. MacTIERNAN replied: (1)-(3) I know that members who have engaged in budget banditry find it very difficult to grasp the requirements of probity in contractual dealing. However, I am happy to take the Leader of the Opposition through some basic principles of how contracts are costed and managed to protect the public interest. Every civil construction project that has ever been done in this State has followed a similar trajectory. We make a strategic decision that we want a particular project. Whether it be the Graham Farmer Freeway, the duplication of the Narrows Bridge or an enlightened rail project, the process is the same: we make a strategic decision. We then obtain professional advice on the cost of the project before we make the final determination. We go to the leading consultancy firms, as well as our own in-house experts, and we get advice on the cost of the project. In this case, the costings on the project were done by a series of engineering firms, including Evans and Peck Management, a firm that was used extensively by the previous Government in its costings for the Northbridge tunnel and the Graham Farmer Freeway. The concept that our costings are based purely on speculation is nonsense. These costings have been done after an elaborate and exhaustive analysis by senior engineering firms in Perth, with the assistance of many rail experts from around Australia. At the end of the day, a cost estimate is a cost estimate. It is not until we have a firm fixed-price contract that we can say absolutely what will be the final price of the contract. Mr C.J. Barnett: So you have no idea! The SPEAKER: Order! Ms A.J. MacTIERNAN: It is the same for any project. There is no other way of going about it. We get a detailed costing from engineers who are competent and capable of providing the best possible advice to government. The ultimate test is when it goes out to contract. What we require for this project is fixed-price contracts. I am very confident that we will get within that range for our project. Mr C.J. Barnett: It is a range now! We are in a range! The SPEAKER: Order! Ms A.J. MacTIERNAN: Of course it is a range. It is astounding that the Leader of the Opposition would imagine that a project could be done otherwise. Can the Leader of the Opposition tell us how his projects were done? Dr G.I. Gallop: There were no projects! Ms A.J. MacTIERNAN: It is extraordinary that this same process was acceptable for the Graham Farmer Freeway, the extension of the Kwinana Freeway and the duplication of the Narrows Bridge, but somehow this standard, normal process that has been in place for decades is not acceptable for this project. We are very confident that we will come within that range. Of course I can never guarantee that it will be exactly $1.419 billion, and neither can anyone else, but we have taken the best professional advice available. As I have said to the member for Carine, once we have finished the negotiating process and will no longer jeopardise our negotiating position by releasing that information, I will be happy to table that advice.
(3) Is this simply a case of the minister again attempting to hide yet another cost blow-out on a project that she has mismanaged from the beginning, which flies in the face of government accountability? Ms A.J. MacTIERNAN replied: (1)-(3) I know that members who have engaged in budget banditry find it very difficult to grasp the requirements of probity in contractual dealing. However, I am happy to take the Leader of the Opposition through some basic principles of how contracts are costed and managed to protect the public interest. Every civil construction project that has ever been done in this State has followed a similar trajectory. We make a strategic decision that we want a particular project. Whether it be the Graham Farmer Freeway, the duplication of the Narrows Bridge or an enlightened rail project, the process is the same: we make a strategic decision. We then obtain professional advice on the cost of the project before we make the final determination. We go to the leading consultancy firms, as well as our own in-house experts, and we get advice on the cost of the project. In this case, the costings on the project were done by a series of engineering firms, including Evans and Peck Management, a firm that was used extensively by the previous Government in its costings for the Northbridge tunnel and the Graham Farmer Freeway. The concept that our costings are based purely on speculation is nonsense. These costings have been done after an elaborate and exhaustive analysis by senior engineering firms in Perth, with the assistance of many rail experts from around Australia. At the end of the day, a cost estimate is a cost estimate. It is not until we have a firm fixed-price contract that we can say absolutely what will be the final price of the contract. Mr C.J. Barnett: So you have no idea! The SPEAKER: Order! Ms A.J. MacTIERNAN: It is the same for any project. There is no other way of going about it. We get a detailed costing from engineers who are competent and capable of providing the best possible advice to government. The ultimate test is when it goes out to contract. What we require for this project is fixed-price contracts. I am very confident that we will get within that range for our project. Mr C.J. Barnett: It is a range now! We are in a range! The SPEAKER: Order! Ms A.J. MacTIERNAN: Of course it is a range. It is astounding that the Leader of the Opposition would imagine that a project could be done otherwise. Can the Leader of the Opposition tell us how his projects were done? Dr G.I. Gallop: There were no projects! Ms A.J. MacTIERNAN: It is extraordinary that this same process was acceptable for the Graham Farmer Freeway, the extension of the Kwinana Freeway and the duplication of the Narrows Bridge, but somehow this standard, normal process that has been in place for decades is not acceptable for this project. We are very confident that we will come within that range. Of course I can never guarantee that it will be exactly $1.419 billion, and neither can anyone else, but we have taken the best professional advice available. As I have said to the member for Carine, once we have finished the negotiating process and will no longer jeopardise our negotiating position by releasing that information, I will be happy to table that advice.
Ms A.J. MacTIERNAN replied: (1)-(3) I know that members who have engaged in budget banditry find it very difficult to grasp the requirements of probity in contractual dealing. However, I am happy to take the Leader of the Opposition through some basic principles of how contracts are costed and managed to protect the public interest. Every civil construction project that has ever been done in this State has followed a similar trajectory. We make a strategic decision that we want a particular project. Whether it be the Graham Farmer Freeway, the duplication of the Narrows Bridge or an enlightened rail project, the process is the same: we make a strategic decision. We then obtain professional advice on the cost of the project before we make the final determination. We go to the leading consultancy firms, as well as our own in-house experts, and we get advice on the cost of the project. In this case, the costings on the project were done by a series of engineering firms, including Evans and Peck Management, a firm that was used extensively by the previous Government in its costings for the Northbridge tunnel and the Graham Farmer Freeway. The concept that our costings are based purely on speculation is nonsense. These costings have been done after an elaborate and exhaustive analysis by senior engineering firms in Perth, with the assistance of many rail experts from around Australia. At the end of the day, a cost estimate is a cost estimate. It is not until we have a firm fixed-price contract that we can say absolutely what will be the final price of the contract. Mr C.J. Barnett: So you have no idea! The SPEAKER: Order! Ms A.J. MacTIERNAN: It is the same for any project. There is no other way of going about it. We get a detailed costing from engineers who are competent and capable of providing the best possible advice to government. The ultimate test is when it goes out to contract. What we require for this project is fixed-price contracts. I am very confident that we will get within that range for our project. Mr C.J. Barnett: It is a range now! We are in a range! The SPEAKER: Order! Ms A.J. MacTIERNAN: Of course it is a range. It is astounding that the Leader of the Opposition would imagine that a project could be done otherwise. Can the Leader of the Opposition tell us how his projects were done? Dr G.I. Gallop: There were no projects! Ms A.J. MacTIERNAN: It is extraordinary that this same process was acceptable for the Graham Farmer Freeway, the extension of the Kwinana Freeway and the duplication of the Narrows Bridge, but somehow this standard, normal process that has been in place for decades is not acceptable for this project. We are very confident that we will come within that range. Of course I can never guarantee that it will be exactly $1.419 billion, and neither can anyone else, but we have taken the best professional advice available. As I have said to the member for Carine, once we have finished the negotiating process and will no longer jeopardise our negotiating position by releasing that information, I will be happy to table that advice.
(1)-(3) I know that members who have engaged in budget banditry find it very difficult to grasp the requirements of probity in contractual dealing. However, I am happy to take the Leader of the Opposition through some basic principles of how contracts are costed and managed to protect the public interest. Every civil construction project that has ever been done in this State has followed a similar trajectory. We make a strategic decision that we want a particular project. Whether it be the Graham Farmer Freeway, the duplication of the Narrows Bridge or an enlightened rail project, the process is the same: we make a strategic decision. We then obtain professional advice on the cost of the project before we make the final determination. We go to the leading consultancy firms, as well as our own in-house experts, and we get advice on the cost of the project. In this case, the costings on the project were done by a series of engineering firms, including Evans and Peck Management, a firm that was used extensively by the previous Government in its costings for the Northbridge tunnel and the Graham Farmer Freeway. The concept that our costings are based purely on speculation is nonsense. These costings have been done after an elaborate and exhaustive analysis by senior engineering firms in Perth, with the assistance of many rail experts from around Australia. At the end of the day, a cost estimate is a cost estimate. It is not until we have a firm fixed-price contract that we can say absolutely what will be the final price of the contract. Mr C.J. Barnett: So you have no idea! The SPEAKER: Order! Ms A.J. MacTIERNAN: It is the same for any project. There is no other way of going about it. We get a detailed costing from engineers who are competent and capable of providing the best possible advice to government. The ultimate test is when it goes out to contract. What we require for this project is fixed-price contracts. I am very confident that we will get within that range for our project. Mr C.J. Barnett: It is a range now! We are in a range! The SPEAKER: Order! Ms A.J. MacTIERNAN: Of course it is a range. It is astounding that the Leader of the Opposition would imagine that a project could be done otherwise. Can the Leader of the Opposition tell us how his projects were done? Dr G.I. Gallop: There were no projects! Ms A.J. MacTIERNAN: It is extraordinary that this same process was acceptable for the Graham Farmer Freeway, the extension of the Kwinana Freeway and the duplication of the Narrows Bridge, but somehow this standard, normal process that has been in place for decades is not acceptable for this project. We are very confident that we will come within that range. Of course I can never guarantee that it will be exactly $1.419 billion, and neither can anyone else, but we have taken the best professional advice available. As I have said to the member for Carine, once we have finished the negotiating process and will no longer jeopardise our negotiating position by releasing that information, I will be happy to table that advice.
Mr C.J. Barnett: So you have no idea! The SPEAKER: Order! Ms A.J. MacTIERNAN: It is the same for any project. There is no other way of going about it. We get a detailed costing from engineers who are competent and capable of providing the best possible advice to government. The ultimate test is when it goes out to contract. What we require for this project is fixed-price contracts. I am very confident that we will get within that range for our project. Mr C.J. Barnett: It is a range now! We are in a range! The SPEAKER: Order! Ms A.J. MacTIERNAN: Of course it is a range. It is astounding that the Leader of the Opposition would imagine that a project could be done otherwise. Can the Leader of the Opposition tell us how his projects were done? Dr G.I. Gallop: There were no projects! Ms A.J. MacTIERNAN: It is extraordinary that this same process was acceptable for the Graham Farmer Freeway, the extension of the Kwinana Freeway and the duplication of the Narrows Bridge, but somehow this standard, normal process that has been in place for decades is not acceptable for this project. We are very confident that we will come within that range. Of course I can never guarantee that it will be exactly $1.419 billion, and neither can anyone else, but we have taken the best professional advice available. As I have said to the member for Carine, once we have finished the negotiating process and will no longer jeopardise our negotiating position by releasing that information, I will be happy to table that advice.
The SPEAKER: Order! Ms A.J. MacTIERNAN: It is the same for any project. There is no other way of going about it. We get a detailed costing from engineers who are competent and capable of providing the best possible advice to government. The ultimate test is when it goes out to contract. What we require for this project is fixed-price contracts. I am very confident that we will get within that range for our project. Mr C.J. Barnett: It is a range now! We are in a range! The SPEAKER: Order! Ms A.J. MacTIERNAN: Of course it is a range. It is astounding that the Leader of the Opposition would imagine that a project could be done otherwise. Can the Leader of the Opposition tell us how his projects were done? Dr G.I. Gallop: There were no projects! Ms A.J. MacTIERNAN: It is extraordinary that this same process was acceptable for the Graham Farmer Freeway, the extension of the Kwinana Freeway and the duplication of the Narrows Bridge, but somehow this standard, normal process that has been in place for decades is not acceptable for this project. We are very confident that we will come within that range. Of course I can never guarantee that it will be exactly $1.419 billion, and neither can anyone else, but we have taken the best professional advice available. As I have said to the member for Carine, once we have finished the negotiating process and will no longer jeopardise our negotiating position by releasing that information, I will be happy to table that advice.
Ms A.J. MacTIERNAN: It is the same for any project. There is no other way of going about it. We get a detailed costing from engineers who are competent and capable of providing the best possible advice to government. The ultimate test is when it goes out to contract. What we require for this project is fixed-price contracts. I am very confident that we will get within that range for our project. Mr C.J. Barnett: It is a range now! We are in a range! The SPEAKER: Order! Ms A.J. MacTIERNAN: Of course it is a range. It is astounding that the Leader of the Opposition would imagine that a project could be done otherwise. Can the Leader of the Opposition tell us how his projects were done? Dr G.I. Gallop: There were no projects! Ms A.J. MacTIERNAN: It is extraordinary that this same process was acceptable for the Graham Farmer Freeway, the extension of the Kwinana Freeway and the duplication of the Narrows Bridge, but somehow this standard, normal process that has been in place for decades is not acceptable for this project. We are very confident that we will come within that range. Of course I can never guarantee that it will be exactly $1.419 billion, and neither can anyone else, but we have taken the best professional advice available. As I have said to the member for Carine, once we have finished the negotiating process and will no longer jeopardise our negotiating position by releasing that information, I will be happy to table that advice.
Mr C.J. Barnett: It is a range now! We are in a range! The SPEAKER: Order! Ms A.J. MacTIERNAN: Of course it is a range. It is astounding that the Leader of the Opposition would imagine that a project could be done otherwise. Can the Leader of the Opposition tell us how his projects were done? Dr G.I. Gallop: There were no projects! Ms A.J. MacTIERNAN: It is extraordinary that this same process was acceptable for the Graham Farmer Freeway, the extension of the Kwinana Freeway and the duplication of the Narrows Bridge, but somehow this standard, normal process that has been in place for decades is not acceptable for this project. We are very confident that we will come within that range. Of course I can never guarantee that it will be exactly $1.419 billion, and neither can anyone else, but we have taken the best professional advice available. As I have said to the member for Carine, once we have finished the negotiating process and will no longer jeopardise our negotiating position by releasing that information, I will be happy to table that advice.
The SPEAKER: Order! Ms A.J. MacTIERNAN: Of course it is a range. It is astounding that the Leader of the Opposition would imagine that a project could be done otherwise. Can the Leader of the Opposition tell us how his projects were done? Dr G.I. Gallop: There were no projects! Ms A.J. MacTIERNAN: It is extraordinary that this same process was acceptable for the Graham Farmer Freeway, the extension of the Kwinana Freeway and the duplication of the Narrows Bridge, but somehow this standard, normal process that has been in place for decades is not acceptable for this project. We are very confident that we will come within that range. Of course I can never guarantee that it will be exactly $1.419 billion, and neither can anyone else, but we have taken the best professional advice available. As I have said to the member for Carine, once we have finished the negotiating process and will no longer jeopardise our negotiating position by releasing that information, I will be happy to table that advice.
Ms A.J. MacTIERNAN: Of course it is a range. It is astounding that the Leader of the Opposition would imagine that a project could be done otherwise. Can the Leader of the Opposition tell us how his projects were done? Dr G.I. Gallop: There were no projects! Ms A.J. MacTIERNAN: It is extraordinary that this same process was acceptable for the Graham Farmer Freeway, the extension of the Kwinana Freeway and the duplication of the Narrows Bridge, but somehow this standard, normal process that has been in place for decades is not acceptable for this project. We are very confident that we will come within that range. Of course I can never guarantee that it will be exactly $1.419 billion, and neither can anyone else, but we have taken the best professional advice available. As I have said to the member for Carine, once we have finished the negotiating process and will no longer jeopardise our negotiating position by releasing that information, I will be happy to table that advice.
Dr G.I. Gallop: There were no projects! Ms A.J. MacTIERNAN: It is extraordinary that this same process was acceptable for the Graham Farmer Freeway, the extension of the Kwinana Freeway and the duplication of the Narrows Bridge, but somehow this standard, normal process that has been in place for decades is not acceptable for this project. We are very confident that we will come within that range. Of course I can never guarantee that it will be exactly $1.419 billion, and neither can anyone else, but we have taken the best professional advice available. As I have said to the member for Carine, once we have finished the negotiating process and will no longer jeopardise our negotiating position by releasing that information, I will be happy to table that advice.
Ms A.J. MacTIERNAN: It is extraordinary that this same process was acceptable for the Graham Farmer Freeway, the extension of the Kwinana Freeway and the duplication of the Narrows Bridge, but somehow this standard, normal process that has been in place for decades is not acceptable for this project. We are very confident that we will come within that range. Of course I can never guarantee that it will be exactly $1.419 billion, and neither can anyone else, but we have taken the best professional advice available. As I have said to the member for Carine, once we have finished the negotiating process and will no longer jeopardise our negotiating position by releasing that information, I will be happy to table that advice.
(1) Will the minister now admit that figures issued in a press release in May this year indicating that the total cost of the railway would be $1.419 billion are, therefore, nothing but speculation? (2) How can the minister continue to claim that the cost of the southern rail link will not blow out when those costs have not been finalised? (3) Is this simply a case of the minister again attempting to hide yet another cost blow-out on a project that she has mismanaged from the beginning, which flies in the face of government accountability? Ms A.J. MacTIERNAN replied: (1)-(3) I know that members who have engaged in budget banditry find it very difficult to grasp the requirements of probity in contractual dealing. However, I am happy to take the Leader of the Opposition through some basic principles of how contracts are costed and managed to protect the public interest. Every civil construction project that has ever been done in this State has followed a similar trajectory. We make a strategic decision that we want a particular project. Whether it be the Graham Farmer Freeway, the duplication of the Narrows Bridge or an enlightened rail project, the process is the same: we make a strategic decision. We then obtain professional advice on the cost of the project before we make the final determination. We go to the leading consultancy firms, as well as our own in-house experts, and we get advice on the cost of the project. In this case, the costings on the project were done by a series of engineering firms, including Evans and Peck Management, a firm that was used extensively by the previous Government in its costings for the Northbridge tunnel and the Graham Farmer Freeway. The concept that our costings are based purely on speculation is nonsense. These costings have been done after an elaborate and exhaustive analysis by senior engineering firms in Perth, with the assistance of many rail experts from around Australia. At the end of the day, a cost estimate is a cost estimate. It is not until we have a firm fixed-price contract that we can say absolutely what will be the final price of the contract. Mr C.J. Barnett: So you have no idea! The SPEAKER: Order! Ms A.J. MacTIERNAN: It is the same for any project. There is no other way of going about it. We get a detailed costing from engineers who are competent and capable of providing the best possible advice to government. The ultimate test is when it goes out to contract. What we require for this project is fixed-price contracts. I am very confident that we will get within that range for our project. Mr C.J. Barnett: It is a range now! We are in a range! The SPEAKER: Order! Ms A.J. MacTIERNAN: Of course it is a range. It is astounding that the Leader of the Opposition would imagine that a project could be done otherwise. Can the Leader of the Opposition tell us how his projects were done? Dr G.I. Gallop: There were no projects! Ms A.J. MacTIERNAN: It is extraordinary that this same process was acceptable for the Graham Farmer Freeway, the extension of the Kwinana Freeway and the duplication of the Narrows Bridge, but somehow this standard, normal process that has been in place for decades is not acceptable for this project. We are very confident that we will come within that range. Of course I can never guarantee that it will be exactly $1.419 billion, and neither can anyone else, but we have taken the best professional advice available. As I have said to the member for Carine, once we have finished the negotiating process and will no longer jeopardise our negotiating position by releasing that information, I will be happy to table that advice.
(2) How can the minister continue to claim that the cost of the southern rail link will not blow out when those costs have not been finalised? (3) Is this simply a case of the minister again attempting to hide yet another cost blow-out on a project that she has mismanaged from the beginning, which flies in the face of government accountability? Ms A.J. MacTIERNAN replied: (1)-(3) I know that members who have engaged in budget banditry find it very difficult to grasp the requirements of probity in contractual dealing. However, I am happy to take the Leader of the Opposition through some basic principles of how contracts are costed and managed to protect the public interest. Every civil construction project that has ever been done in this State has followed a similar trajectory. We make a strategic decision that we want a particular project. Whether it be the Graham Farmer Freeway, the duplication of the Narrows Bridge or an enlightened rail project, the process is the same: we make a strategic decision. We then obtain professional advice on the cost of the project before we make the final determination. We go to the leading consultancy firms, as well as our own in-house experts, and we get advice on the cost of the project. In this case, the costings on the project were done by a series of engineering firms, including Evans and Peck Management, a firm that was used extensively by the previous Government in its costings for the Northbridge tunnel and the Graham Farmer Freeway. The concept that our costings are based purely on speculation is nonsense. These costings have been done after an elaborate and exhaustive analysis by senior engineering firms in Perth, with the assistance of many rail experts from around Australia. At the end of the day, a cost estimate is a cost estimate. It is not until we have a firm fixed-price contract that we can say absolutely what will be the final price of the contract. Mr C.J. Barnett: So you have no idea! The SPEAKER: Order! Ms A.J. MacTIERNAN: It is the same for any project. There is no other way of going about it. We get a detailed costing from engineers who are competent and capable of providing the best possible advice to government. The ultimate test is when it goes out to contract. What we require for this project is fixed-price contracts. I am very confident that we will get within that range for our project. Mr C.J. Barnett: It is a range now! We are in a range! The SPEAKER: Order! Ms A.J. MacTIERNAN: Of course it is a range. It is astounding that the Leader of the Opposition would imagine that a project could be done otherwise. Can the Leader of the Opposition tell us how his projects were done? Dr G.I. Gallop: There were no projects! Ms A.J. MacTIERNAN: It is extraordinary that this same process was acceptable for the Graham Farmer Freeway, the extension of the Kwinana Freeway and the duplication of the Narrows Bridge, but somehow this standard, normal process that has been in place for decades is not acceptable for this project. We are very confident that we will come within that range. Of course I can never guarantee that it will be exactly $1.419 billion, and neither can anyone else, but we have taken the best professional advice available. As I have said to the member for Carine, once we have finished the negotiating process and will no longer jeopardise our negotiating position by releasing that information, I will be happy to table that advice.
(3) Is this simply a case of the minister again attempting to hide yet another cost blow-out on a project that she has mismanaged from the beginning, which flies in the face of government accountability? Ms A.J. MacTIERNAN replied: (1)-(3) I know that members who have engaged in budget banditry find it very difficult to grasp the requirements of probity in contractual dealing. However, I am happy to take the Leader of the Opposition through some basic principles of how contracts are costed and managed to protect the public interest. Every civil construction project that has ever been done in this State has followed a similar trajectory. We make a strategic decision that we want a particular project. Whether it be the Graham Farmer Freeway, the duplication of the Narrows Bridge or an enlightened rail project, the process is the same: we make a strategic decision. We then obtain professional advice on the cost of the project before we make the final determination. We go to the leading consultancy firms, as well as our own in-house experts, and we get advice on the cost of the project. In this case, the costings on the project were done by a series of engineering firms, including Evans and Peck Management, a firm that was used extensively by the previous Government in its costings for the Northbridge tunnel and the Graham Farmer Freeway. The concept that our costings are based purely on speculation is nonsense. These costings have been done after an elaborate and exhaustive analysis by senior engineering firms in Perth, with the assistance of many rail experts from around Australia. At the end of the day, a cost estimate is a cost estimate. It is not until we have a firm fixed-price contract that we can say absolutely what will be the final price of the contract. Mr C.J. Barnett: So you have no idea! The SPEAKER: Order! Ms A.J. MacTIERNAN: It is the same for any project. There is no other way of going about it. We get a detailed costing from engineers who are competent and capable of providing the best possible advice to government. The ultimate test is when it goes out to contract. What we require for this project is fixed-price contracts. I am very confident that we will get within that range for our project. Mr C.J. Barnett: It is a range now! We are in a range! The SPEAKER: Order! Ms A.J. MacTIERNAN: Of course it is a range. It is astounding that the Leader of the Opposition would imagine that a project could be done otherwise. Can the Leader of the Opposition tell us how his projects were done? Dr G.I. Gallop: There were no projects! Ms A.J. MacTIERNAN: It is extraordinary that this same process was acceptable for the Graham Farmer Freeway, the extension of the Kwinana Freeway and the duplication of the Narrows Bridge, but somehow this standard, normal process that has been in place for decades is not acceptable for this project. We are very confident that we will come within that range. Of course I can never guarantee that it will be exactly $1.419 billion, and neither can anyone else, but we have taken the best professional advice available. As I have said to the member for Carine, once we have finished the negotiating process and will no longer jeopardise our negotiating position by releasing that information, I will be happy to table that advice.
Ms A.J. MacTIERNAN replied: (1)-(3) I know that members who have engaged in budget banditry find it very difficult to grasp the requirements of probity in contractual dealing. However, I am happy to take the Leader of the Opposition through some basic principles of how contracts are costed and managed to protect the public interest. Every civil construction project that has ever been done in this State has followed a similar trajectory. We make a strategic decision that we want a particular project. Whether it be the Graham Farmer Freeway, the duplication of the Narrows Bridge or an enlightened rail project, the process is the same: we make a strategic decision. We then obtain professional advice on the cost of the project before we make the final determination. We go to the leading consultancy firms, as well as our own in-house experts, and we get advice on the cost of the project. In this case, the costings on the project were done by a series of engineering firms, including Evans and Peck Management, a firm that was used extensively by the previous Government in its costings for the Northbridge tunnel and the Graham Farmer Freeway. The concept that our costings are based purely on speculation is nonsense. These costings have been done after an elaborate and exhaustive analysis by senior engineering firms in Perth, with the assistance of many rail experts from around Australia. At the end of the day, a cost estimate is a cost estimate. It is not until we have a firm fixed-price contract that we can say absolutely what will be the final price of the contract. Mr C.J. Barnett: So you have no idea! The SPEAKER: Order! Ms A.J. MacTIERNAN: It is the same for any project. There is no other way of going about it. We get a detailed costing from engineers who are competent and capable of providing the best possible advice to government. The ultimate test is when it goes out to contract. What we require for this project is fixed-price contracts. I am very confident that we will get within that range for our project. Mr C.J. Barnett: It is a range now! We are in a range! The SPEAKER: Order! Ms A.J. MacTIERNAN: Of course it is a range. It is astounding that the Leader of the Opposition would imagine that a project could be done otherwise. Can the Leader of the Opposition tell us how his projects were done? Dr G.I. Gallop: There were no projects! Ms A.J. MacTIERNAN: It is extraordinary that this same process was acceptable for the Graham Farmer Freeway, the extension of the Kwinana Freeway and the duplication of the Narrows Bridge, but somehow this standard, normal process that has been in place for decades is not acceptable for this project. We are very confident that we will come within that range. Of course I can never guarantee that it will be exactly $1.419 billion, and neither can anyone else, but we have taken the best professional advice available. As I have said to the member for Carine, once we have finished the negotiating process and will no longer jeopardise our negotiating position by releasing that information, I will be happy to table that advice.
(1)-(3) I know that members who have engaged in budget banditry find it very difficult to grasp the requirements of probity in contractual dealing. However, I am happy to take the Leader of the Opposition through some basic principles of how contracts are costed and managed to protect the public interest. Every civil construction project that has ever been done in this State has followed a similar trajectory. We make a strategic decision that we want a particular project. Whether it be the Graham Farmer Freeway, the duplication of the Narrows Bridge or an enlightened rail project, the process is the same: we make a strategic decision. We then obtain professional advice on the cost of the project before we make the final determination. We go to the leading consultancy firms, as well as our own in-house experts, and we get advice on the cost of the project. In this case, the costings on the project were done by a series of engineering firms, including Evans and Peck Management, a firm that was used extensively by the previous Government in its costings for the Northbridge tunnel and the Graham Farmer Freeway. The concept that our costings are based purely on speculation is nonsense. These costings have been done after an elaborate and exhaustive analysis by senior engineering firms in Perth, with the assistance of many rail experts from around Australia. At the end of the day, a cost estimate is a cost estimate. It is not until we have a firm fixed-price contract that we can say absolutely what will be the final price of the contract. Mr C.J. Barnett: So you have no idea! The SPEAKER: Order! Ms A.J. MacTIERNAN: It is the same for any project. There is no other way of going about it. We get a detailed costing from engineers who are competent and capable of providing the best possible advice to government. The ultimate test is when it goes out to contract. What we require for this project is fixed-price contracts. I am very confident that we will get within that range for our project. Mr C.J. Barnett: It is a range now! We are in a range! The SPEAKER: Order! Ms A.J. MacTIERNAN: Of course it is a range. It is astounding that the Leader of the Opposition would imagine that a project could be done otherwise. Can the Leader of the Opposition tell us how his projects were done? Dr G.I. Gallop: There were no projects! Ms A.J. MacTIERNAN: It is extraordinary that this same process was acceptable for the Graham Farmer Freeway, the extension of the Kwinana Freeway and the duplication of the Narrows Bridge, but somehow this standard, normal process that has been in place for decades is not acceptable for this project. We are very confident that we will come within that range. Of course I can never guarantee that it will be exactly $1.419 billion, and neither can anyone else, but we have taken the best professional advice available. As I have said to the member for Carine, once we have finished the negotiating process and will no longer jeopardise our negotiating position by releasing that information, I will be happy to table that advice.
Mr C.J. Barnett: So you have no idea! The SPEAKER: Order! Ms A.J. MacTIERNAN: It is the same for any project. There is no other way of going about it. We get a detailed costing from engineers who are competent and capable of providing the best possible advice to government. The ultimate test is when it goes out to contract. What we require for this project is fixed-price contracts. I am very confident that we will get within that range for our project. Mr C.J. Barnett: It is a range now! We are in a range! The SPEAKER: Order! Ms A.J. MacTIERNAN: Of course it is a range. It is astounding that the Leader of the Opposition would imagine that a project could be done otherwise. Can the Leader of the Opposition tell us how his projects were done? Dr G.I. Gallop: There were no projects! Ms A.J. MacTIERNAN: It is extraordinary that this same process was acceptable for the Graham Farmer Freeway, the extension of the Kwinana Freeway and the duplication of the Narrows Bridge, but somehow this standard, normal process that has been in place for decades is not acceptable for this project. We are very confident that we will come within that range. Of course I can never guarantee that it will be exactly $1.419 billion, and neither can anyone else, but we have taken the best professional advice available. As I have said to the member for Carine, once we have finished the negotiating process and will no longer jeopardise our negotiating position by releasing that information, I will be happy to table that advice.
The SPEAKER: Order! Ms A.J. MacTIERNAN: It is the same for any project. There is no other way of going about it. We get a detailed costing from engineers who are competent and capable of providing the best possible advice to government. The ultimate test is when it goes out to contract. What we require for this project is fixed-price contracts. I am very confident that we will get within that range for our project. Mr C.J. Barnett: It is a range now! We are in a range! The SPEAKER: Order! Ms A.J. MacTIERNAN: Of course it is a range. It is astounding that the Leader of the Opposition would imagine that a project could be done otherwise. Can the Leader of the Opposition tell us how his projects were done? Dr G.I. Gallop: There were no projects! Ms A.J. MacTIERNAN: It is extraordinary that this same process was acceptable for the Graham Farmer Freeway, the extension of the Kwinana Freeway and the duplication of the Narrows Bridge, but somehow this standard, normal process that has been in place for decades is not acceptable for this project. We are very confident that we will come within that range. Of course I can never guarantee that it will be exactly $1.419 billion, and neither can anyone else, but we have taken the best professional advice available. As I have said to the member for Carine, once we have finished the negotiating process and will no longer jeopardise our negotiating position by releasing that information, I will be happy to table that advice.
Ms A.J. MacTIERNAN: It is the same for any project. There is no other way of going about it. We get a detailed costing from engineers who are competent and capable of providing the best possible advice to government. The ultimate test is when it goes out to contract. What we require for this project is fixed-price contracts. I am very confident that we will get within that range for our project. Mr C.J. Barnett: It is a range now! We are in a range! The SPEAKER: Order! Ms A.J. MacTIERNAN: Of course it is a range. It is astounding that the Leader of the Opposition would imagine that a project could be done otherwise. Can the Leader of the Opposition tell us how his projects were done? Dr G.I. Gallop: There were no projects! Ms A.J. MacTIERNAN: It is extraordinary that this same process was acceptable for the Graham Farmer Freeway, the extension of the Kwinana Freeway and the duplication of the Narrows Bridge, but somehow this standard, normal process that has been in place for decades is not acceptable for this project. We are very confident that we will come within that range. Of course I can never guarantee that it will be exactly $1.419 billion, and neither can anyone else, but we have taken the best professional advice available. As I have said to the member for Carine, once we have finished the negotiating process and will no longer jeopardise our negotiating position by releasing that information, I will be happy to table that advice.
Mr C.J. Barnett: It is a range now! We are in a range! The SPEAKER: Order! Ms A.J. MacTIERNAN: Of course it is a range. It is astounding that the Leader of the Opposition would imagine that a project could be done otherwise. Can the Leader of the Opposition tell us how his projects were done? Dr G.I. Gallop: There were no projects! Ms A.J. MacTIERNAN: It is extraordinary that this same process was acceptable for the Graham Farmer Freeway, the extension of the Kwinana Freeway and the duplication of the Narrows Bridge, but somehow this standard, normal process that has been in place for decades is not acceptable for this project. We are very confident that we will come within that range. Of course I can never guarantee that it will be exactly $1.419 billion, and neither can anyone else, but we have taken the best professional advice available. As I have said to the member for Carine, once we have finished the negotiating process and will no longer jeopardise our negotiating position by releasing that information, I will be happy to table that advice.
The SPEAKER: Order! Ms A.J. MacTIERNAN: Of course it is a range. It is astounding that the Leader of the Opposition would imagine that a project could be done otherwise. Can the Leader of the Opposition tell us how his projects were done? Dr G.I. Gallop: There were no projects! Ms A.J. MacTIERNAN: It is extraordinary that this same process was acceptable for the Graham Farmer Freeway, the extension of the Kwinana Freeway and the duplication of the Narrows Bridge, but somehow this standard, normal process that has been in place for decades is not acceptable for this project. We are very confident that we will come within that range. Of course I can never guarantee that it will be exactly $1.419 billion, and neither can anyone else, but we have taken the best professional advice available. As I have said to the member for Carine, once we have finished the negotiating process and will no longer jeopardise our negotiating position by releasing that information, I will be happy to table that advice.
Ms A.J. MacTIERNAN: Of course it is a range. It is astounding that the Leader of the Opposition would imagine that a project could be done otherwise. Can the Leader of the Opposition tell us how his projects were done? Dr G.I. Gallop: There were no projects! Ms A.J. MacTIERNAN: It is extraordinary that this same process was acceptable for the Graham Farmer Freeway, the extension of the Kwinana Freeway and the duplication of the Narrows Bridge, but somehow this standard, normal process that has been in place for decades is not acceptable for this project. We are very confident that we will come within that range. Of course I can never guarantee that it will be exactly $1.419 billion, and neither can anyone else, but we have taken the best professional advice available. As I have said to the member for Carine, once we have finished the negotiating process and will no longer jeopardise our negotiating position by releasing that information, I will be happy to table that advice.
Dr G.I. Gallop: There were no projects! Ms A.J. MacTIERNAN: It is extraordinary that this same process was acceptable for the Graham Farmer Freeway, the extension of the Kwinana Freeway and the duplication of the Narrows Bridge, but somehow this standard, normal process that has been in place for decades is not acceptable for this project. We are very confident that we will come within that range. Of course I can never guarantee that it will be exactly $1.419 billion, and neither can anyone else, but we have taken the best professional advice available. As I have said to the member for Carine, once we have finished the negotiating process and will no longer jeopardise our negotiating position by releasing that information, I will be happy to table that advice.
Ms A.J. MacTIERNAN: It is extraordinary that this same process was acceptable for the Graham Farmer Freeway, the extension of the Kwinana Freeway and the duplication of the Narrows Bridge, but somehow this standard, normal process that has been in place for decades is not acceptable for this project. We are very confident that we will come within that range. Of course I can never guarantee that it will be exactly $1.419 billion, and neither can anyone else, but we have taken the best professional advice available. As I have said to the member for Carine, once we have finished the negotiating process and will no longer jeopardise our negotiating position by releasing that information, I will be happy to table that advice.
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