❓ A parliamentary question regarding deaths associated with the Alma Street mental health facility and the resignation of Geoff Diver from the Mental Health Advisory Council. The Minister responds, addressing concerns about a coronial inquiry and Mr. Diver's access to information.
AnsweredQoN 407Legislative Council
QuestionView source ↗
ALMA
STREET CLINIC — SUICIDES
407. Hon LJILJANNA RAVLICH to the Minister for Mental
Health:
I refer to the 15 deaths that occurred at the Alma Street
mental health facility at Fremantle Hospital in 2011 plus the further six or
seven deaths that occurred immediately after the patients were discharged.
(1) Does the
minister accept that the number of deaths in and around this clinic is
significant and unacceptably high?
(2) Can the
minister confirm that Geoff Diver has withdrawn from the mental health advisory
panel because of the lack of information and support from the Department of
Health?
(3) Given
these facts and the community anger, will the minister support a full coronial
inquiry into the deaths associated with the Alma Street clinic for the grieving
families so that they can get some answers?
STREET CLINIC — SUICIDES
407. Hon LJILJANNA RAVLICH to the Minister for Mental
Health:
I refer to the 15 deaths that occurred at the Alma Street
mental health facility at Fremantle Hospital in 2011 plus the further six or
seven deaths that occurred immediately after the patients were discharged.
(1) Does the
minister accept that the number of deaths in and around this clinic is
significant and unacceptably high?
(2) Can the
minister confirm that Geoff Diver has withdrawn from the mental health advisory
panel because of the lack of information and support from the Department of
Health?
(3) Given
these facts and the community anger, will the minister support a full coronial
inquiry into the deaths associated with the Alma Street clinic for the grieving
families so that they can get some answers?
AnswerView source ↗
I thank the member for the question. It does give me the
opportunity to again raise some issues that the member has really got a bit
mixed up here.
(1)–(3)
I will start from the bottom because, invariably, the most important part of
the member's question is the last part about the need for a coronial
inquiry and whether I would support that. I have said many times that if the
coroner decides to undertake an inquiry of this sort anywhere on any situation
and under any circumstances, he will get the full support of me, my office and
the staff and people involved. There is no question about that. I do not
understand why the member does not understand that, to be honest. I do not
think I can say it any more clearly or plainly than I have. He will get the
full support of anybody working within the mental health system. That has always
been the position and it will always be so.
Several members interjected.
The PRESIDENT : Order!
Several members interjected.
The PRESIDENT : Order! I think a few people have
got earmuffs on today. Let us get on with the answer without any interjections.
Hon HELEN MORTON : Mr Geoff Diver is a remarkable man.
He came to see me not long after his daughter, Ruby Diver, died. We spent a
reasonable amount of time talking in my ministerial office. It was at that time
that I asked him whether he would join the Mental Health Advisory Council. He
had not been aware of that council. For members who are unaware of the council,
it has the responsibility of providing advice to the Mental Health Commission.
The council has a wide-ranging membership from sources that would not normally
provide advice to the Mental Health Commission. There are no bureaucrats or
people working within the system on the council. It has general practitioners,
people who work in the non-government sector, people who have experience of
mental illness et cetera. It is chaired by Barry MacKinnon, and the deputy
chair is Dr Judith Edwards. It is a fantastic bipartisan council that is doing
some great work.
There is an issue around timing.
Sometime during the day on Friday, my staff sent Geoff Diver, who, I might add,
is in Scotland, an email to let him know about the process by which he would
get access to the information. Under that process, it needed to go to the State
Solicitor's Office to make sure that the clinical information
demonstrated that there was an implied consent from Geoff's daughter
for him to have full access to her information. I believe he got concerned, and
rightly so, that it needed to go to the State Solicitor's Office for
that to be determined. However, that was the process that the Chief
Psychiatrist was taking, given that very clear section of the Mental Health Act
that basically states that if any information is divulged without consent, it
is a criminal offence. By six o'clock that night, I had the information
that he would get full access to that report, and so we sent him another email
while he was Scotland. In the meantime, I would say that he was busy writing an
email to me, saying that he was really unhappy about this and that he was going
to get public and active about this situation because he wanted access to that
information. At the time that his email was coming to me, I would say that my
email was going to him. In his email, he made it absolutely clear that he has a
really close association with another member of Parliament and that he
understood from that member of Parliament that I wanted to meet with him as
soon as he got back to Perth. In his email to me, he has indicated that he
would like that meeting to take place. I will meet with Mr Diver again when he
gets back to Perth.
Obviously, it is not up to me to
necessarily say that he must stay on the Mental Health Advisory Council, but I
can say that he is a very valuable member of that council and I will certainly
have discussions with him about that. However, it is his decision whether he
wants to stay on the council. I have heard that he is spending more and more
time away from Perth, and there may be other reasons that it might not be
practical for him to stay on the council. However, I will have that discussion with
him and basically work that out with him.
There was another part to the
question. It was the first part. I cannot remember precisely what it was. Can
the member repeat it?
Hon Ljiljanna Ravlich : Do you accept that the number of
deaths in and around this clinic is significant and unacceptably high?
Hon HELEN MORTON : The member might say ''unacceptably
high'', but any death is unacceptable. The information I have and the
additional information that I have given the member show very clearly that
there were nine deaths in 2009; there were eight deaths in 2010, two of whom
died from Alzheimer's disease in the elderly mental health unit; and
there were 15 deaths in 2011, seven of whom died from Alzheimer's in
the elderly mental health unit. Other than those people, there were eight
deaths in 2011. The latest data I have for 2012 shows that there have been zero
deaths. Those figures indicate that the number of deaths is declining on
average. There is no great spike, as Hon
Ljiljanna Ravlich would have us believe. As I have said before, no-one
would want to have any deaths; we would not want any deaths from cancer, heart
attacks or anything else. But, unfortunately, Hon Ljiljanna Ravlich has never, ever been able to understand
that mental ill-health is a serious life-threatening illness.
opportunity to again raise some issues that the member has really got a bit
mixed up here.
(1)–(3)
I will start from the bottom because, invariably, the most important part of
the member's question is the last part about the need for a coronial
inquiry and whether I would support that. I have said many times that if the
coroner decides to undertake an inquiry of this sort anywhere on any situation
and under any circumstances, he will get the full support of me, my office and
the staff and people involved. There is no question about that. I do not
understand why the member does not understand that, to be honest. I do not
think I can say it any more clearly or plainly than I have. He will get the
full support of anybody working within the mental health system. That has always
been the position and it will always be so.
Several members interjected.
The PRESIDENT : Order!
Several members interjected.
The PRESIDENT : Order! I think a few people have
got earmuffs on today. Let us get on with the answer without any interjections.
Hon HELEN MORTON : Mr Geoff Diver is a remarkable man.
He came to see me not long after his daughter, Ruby Diver, died. We spent a
reasonable amount of time talking in my ministerial office. It was at that time
that I asked him whether he would join the Mental Health Advisory Council. He
had not been aware of that council. For members who are unaware of the council,
it has the responsibility of providing advice to the Mental Health Commission.
The council has a wide-ranging membership from sources that would not normally
provide advice to the Mental Health Commission. There are no bureaucrats or
people working within the system on the council. It has general practitioners,
people who work in the non-government sector, people who have experience of
mental illness et cetera. It is chaired by Barry MacKinnon, and the deputy
chair is Dr Judith Edwards. It is a fantastic bipartisan council that is doing
some great work.
There is an issue around timing.
Sometime during the day on Friday, my staff sent Geoff Diver, who, I might add,
is in Scotland, an email to let him know about the process by which he would
get access to the information. Under that process, it needed to go to the State
Solicitor's Office to make sure that the clinical information
demonstrated that there was an implied consent from Geoff's daughter
for him to have full access to her information. I believe he got concerned, and
rightly so, that it needed to go to the State Solicitor's Office for
that to be determined. However, that was the process that the Chief
Psychiatrist was taking, given that very clear section of the Mental Health Act
that basically states that if any information is divulged without consent, it
is a criminal offence. By six o'clock that night, I had the information
that he would get full access to that report, and so we sent him another email
while he was Scotland. In the meantime, I would say that he was busy writing an
email to me, saying that he was really unhappy about this and that he was going
to get public and active about this situation because he wanted access to that
information. At the time that his email was coming to me, I would say that my
email was going to him. In his email, he made it absolutely clear that he has a
really close association with another member of Parliament and that he
understood from that member of Parliament that I wanted to meet with him as
soon as he got back to Perth. In his email to me, he has indicated that he
would like that meeting to take place. I will meet with Mr Diver again when he
gets back to Perth.
Obviously, it is not up to me to
necessarily say that he must stay on the Mental Health Advisory Council, but I
can say that he is a very valuable member of that council and I will certainly
have discussions with him about that. However, it is his decision whether he
wants to stay on the council. I have heard that he is spending more and more
time away from Perth, and there may be other reasons that it might not be
practical for him to stay on the council. However, I will have that discussion with
him and basically work that out with him.
There was another part to the
question. It was the first part. I cannot remember precisely what it was. Can
the member repeat it?
Hon Ljiljanna Ravlich : Do you accept that the number of
deaths in and around this clinic is significant and unacceptably high?
Hon HELEN MORTON : The member might say ''unacceptably
high'', but any death is unacceptable. The information I have and the
additional information that I have given the member show very clearly that
there were nine deaths in 2009; there were eight deaths in 2010, two of whom
died from Alzheimer's disease in the elderly mental health unit; and
there were 15 deaths in 2011, seven of whom died from Alzheimer's in
the elderly mental health unit. Other than those people, there were eight
deaths in 2011. The latest data I have for 2012 shows that there have been zero
deaths. Those figures indicate that the number of deaths is declining on
average. There is no great spike, as Hon
Ljiljanna Ravlich would have us believe. As I have said before, no-one
would want to have any deaths; we would not want any deaths from cancer, heart
attacks or anything else. But, unfortunately, Hon Ljiljanna Ravlich has never, ever been able to understand
that mental ill-health is a serious life-threatening illness.
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