❓ Hon Peter Foss questions the government's timber allocation process, specifically regarding third-grade jarrah volumes and contract awarding. Hon Kim Chance provides explanations regarding the variability of third-grade jarrah and the historical context of contracts with Nannup and Greenbushes mills.
AnsweredQoN 1189Legislative Council
QuestionView source ↗
TIMBER ALLOCATIONS, THIRD-GRADE JARRAH
(1) When the Government made its announcement about jarrah volumes and confirmed the figure for first and second-grade jarrah, why did it not announce the volumes for third-grade jarrah? (2) How is it that the Nannup and Greenbushes mills can be awarded contracts before the completion of the management plan, but no other mills can be awarded similar contracts? (3) What volumes of timber would be available in the reserve areas and from step down if they were accessed prior to 2004? (4) What volumes of timber would be available in the moratorium areas if they were accessed prior to 2004? I realise the minister may not have exact volumes for some of those, but I think the fifth question will sum it up. (5) Will the areas mentioned in (3) and (4) be accessed prior to 2004 to make more timber available after 2004? Hon KIM CHANCE
(1) When the Government made its announcement about jarrah volumes and confirmed the figure for first and second-grade jarrah, why did it not announce the volumes for third-grade jarrah? (2) How is it that the Nannup and Greenbushes mills can be awarded contracts before the completion of the management plan, but no other mills can be awarded similar contracts? (3) What volumes of timber would be available in the reserve areas and from step down if they were accessed prior to 2004? (4) What volumes of timber would be available in the moratorium areas if they were accessed prior to 2004? I realise the minister may not have exact volumes for some of those, but I think the fifth question will sum it up. (5) Will the areas mentioned in (3) and (4) be accessed prior to 2004 to make more timber available after 2004? Hon KIM CHANCE
AnswerView source ↗
(1) Contracts are not normally entered into for third-grade jarrah. Generally speaking, contracts are - Hon Peter Foss: I was talking not about contracts but about the indicative quantities. Hon KIM CHANCE: I see. I will finish that answer, because not everyone would be aware of that. Contracts are generally entered into on the basis of first and second-grade jarrah only. However, Hon Peter Foss’s question is reasonable, because in the request for proposals document, the Government invited proponents to tender on the basis of first and second-grade bids or - we indicated a preference for this - whole-bole volume. Once whole-bole volume was included, it was necessary, in order to keep an apples-with-apples comparison, to leave open the option to proponents to also indicate in their bid what amount of third grade they would like to have; and some did, on the basis of the figures that I saw. To then create an apples-with-apples comparison, we took everything back to a first and second-grade comparison, simply because we all understand what those numbers mean. However, that standardisation of the issue, although important for our understanding of the process, had virtually no impact on the way in which the propositions were analysed, since they were analysed on the basis of their merit as a whole. Therefore, the answer to why third grade has not been contracted - Hon Peter Foss: That was not the question. What quantities will be available? Hon KIM CHANCE: Okay. The final quantity of third grade that will be available is, of course, entirely dependent on the final quantity of first and second grade that is available. To try to give the member a figure off the top of my head would be extremely difficult, because when I have sought that advice from the Forest Products Commission, I have been advised that those numbers are variable; in other words, there is no set ratio of third grade to the combined numbers of first and second grade, because it depends on what part of the forest people are drawing. Hon Peter Foss: That is why I asked the question, because we cannot draw the conclusion that from 140 000 cubic metres there will be X amount of grade 3 . Therefore, we really need to know what the minister thinks it will be. Hon KIM CHANCE: It is highly variable. I will try to answer the question, but members should be aware that this is my view, and it involves a scientific answer. However, my view is that a minimum number, based on 140 000 cubic metres of grade 1 and 2, would probably be about 60 000 cubic metres of grade 3, with possibly some other timber that had not been regarded as millable being millable; and that is building on the work that was done during the jarrah utilisation trials. I am happy to say that that report is now available, should members want a copy of it. Hon Peter Foss: Yes, I would be interested. Hon KIM CHANCE: They were the Michael Buckton trials. That is probably as good as I can do with that part of the question. (2) The contracts for Nannup and Greenbushes were individual, separate and unrelated contracts to different companies that were awarded over the period of the last two Governments. The Greenbushes agreement, which is the blue leaf agreement, was finalised by the coalition Government, and the Nannup agreement, which is similar in structure, was finalised under the current Government. They were concluded on the basis that the proponents had come to government with a proposition that met the requirements of the Government of that day - I will go into that in a moment because there is a slight difference between the two - as to a means of delivering the Government’s policy in a very clear way, and involved in both instances a clear cut down in the volume of timber that would be used. The differences between the two are that the blue leaf proponents - that is, the Greenbushes proponents - got a slightly better deal than everyone else will get, because that agreement was concluded under the coalition Government, which was working on the Regional Forest Agreement figures, and it applied its numeric factors based on a higher number. The figures are 23 000 cubic metres and 20 000 cubic metres - in both cases, jarrah grades 1 and 2. (3)-(4) If I understand question (3) correctly, it is what volume would be available in reserve boundaries and step downs. This is highly speculative, because the step-down figure will be variable. The PRESIDENT: Question times goes on, and we have had only three questions. If the leader cannot answer the question - Hon KIM CHANCE: I am sorry. I need to explain why it is a difficult question to answer. Step-down volumes are variable, depending on when the companies step down. Obviously, the figure will be larger the earlier the step down occurs. I have used a round figure of 20 000 cubic metres. Reserve boundaries are even more speculative and may be anywhere between 5 000 and 25 000 cubic metres. In the moratorium areas, more accurately it will be about 9 000 cubic metres. (5) There will be an opportunity to access those areas prior to 2004, but again that is speculative because they cannot really be accessed until we have certainty, or a great deal more certainty, on the forest management plan results. Whatever we do cannot compromise the integrity of the forest management plan. Hon Peter Foss: It is lawful now, is it not? Hon KIM CHANCE: Yes, it is a matter of law.
(2) How is it that the Nannup and Greenbushes mills can be awarded contracts before the completion of the management plan, but no other mills can be awarded similar contracts? (3) What volumes of timber would be available in the reserve areas and from step down if they were accessed prior to 2004? (4) What volumes of timber would be available in the moratorium areas if they were accessed prior to 2004? I realise the minister may not have exact volumes for some of those, but I think the fifth question will sum it up. (5) Will the areas mentioned in (3) and (4) be accessed prior to 2004 to make more timber available after 2004? Hon KIM CHANCE replied: (1) Contracts are not normally entered into for third-grade jarrah. Generally speaking, contracts are - Hon Peter Foss: I was talking not about contracts but about the indicative quantities. Hon KIM CHANCE: I see. I will finish that answer, because not everyone would be aware of that. Contracts are generally entered into on the basis of first and second-grade jarrah only. However, Hon Peter Foss’s question is reasonable, because in the request for proposals document, the Government invited proponents to tender on the basis of first and second-grade bids or - we indicated a preference for this - whole-bole volume. Once whole-bole volume was included, it was necessary, in order to keep an apples-with-apples comparison, to leave open the option to proponents to also indicate in their bid what amount of third grade they would like to have; and some did, on the basis of the figures that I saw. To then create an apples-with-apples comparison, we took everything back to a first and second-grade comparison, simply because we all understand what those numbers mean. However, that standardisation of the issue, although important for our understanding of the process, had virtually no impact on the way in which the propositions were analysed, since they were analysed on the basis of their merit as a whole. Therefore, the answer to why third grade has not been contracted - Hon Peter Foss: That was not the question. What quantities will be available? Hon KIM CHANCE: Okay. The final quantity of third grade that will be available is, of course, entirely dependent on the final quantity of first and second grade that is available. To try to give the member a figure off the top of my head would be extremely difficult, because when I have sought that advice from the Forest Products Commission, I have been advised that those numbers are variable; in other words, there is no set ratio of third grade to the combined numbers of first and second grade, because it depends on what part of the forest people are drawing. Hon Peter Foss: That is why I asked the question, because we cannot draw the conclusion that from 140 000 cubic metres there will be X amount of grade 3 . Therefore, we really need to know what the minister thinks it will be. Hon KIM CHANCE: It is highly variable. I will try to answer the question, but members should be aware that this is my view, and it involves a scientific answer. However, my view is that a minimum number, based on 140 000 cubic metres of grade 1 and 2, would probably be about 60 000 cubic metres of grade 3, with possibly some other timber that had not been regarded as millable being millable; and that is building on the work that was done during the jarrah utilisation trials. I am happy to say that that report is now available, should members want a copy of it. Hon Peter Foss: Yes, I would be interested. Hon KIM CHANCE: They were the Michael Buckton trials. That is probably as good as I can do with that part of the question. (2) The contracts for Nannup and Greenbushes were individual, separate and unrelated contracts to different companies that were awarded over the period of the last two Governments. The Greenbushes agreement, which is the blue leaf agreement, was finalised by the coalition Government, and the Nannup agreement, which is similar in structure, was finalised under the current Government. They were concluded on the basis that the proponents had come to government with a proposition that met the requirements of the Government of that day - I will go into that in a moment because there is a slight difference between the two - as to a means of delivering the Government’s policy in a very clear way, and involved in both instances a clear cut down in the volume of timber that would be used. The differences between the two are that the blue leaf proponents - that is, the Greenbushes proponents - got a slightly better deal than everyone else will get, because that agreement was concluded under the coalition Government, which was working on the Regional Forest Agreement figures, and it applied its numeric factors based on a higher number. The figures are 23 000 cubic metres and 20 000 cubic metres - in both cases, jarrah grades 1 and 2. (3)-(4) If I understand question (3) correctly, it is what volume would be available in reserve boundaries and step downs. This is highly speculative, because the step-down figure will be variable. The PRESIDENT: Question times goes on, and we have had only three questions. If the leader cannot answer the question - Hon KIM CHANCE: I am sorry. I need to explain why it is a difficult question to answer. Step-down volumes are variable, depending on when the companies step down. Obviously, the figure will be larger the earlier the step down occurs. I have used a round figure of 20 000 cubic metres. Reserve boundaries are even more speculative and may be anywhere between 5 000 and 25 000 cubic metres. In the moratorium areas, more accurately it will be about 9 000 cubic metres. (5) There will be an opportunity to access those areas prior to 2004, but again that is speculative because they cannot really be accessed until we have certainty, or a great deal more certainty, on the forest management plan results. Whatever we do cannot compromise the integrity of the forest management plan. Hon Peter Foss: It is lawful now, is it not? Hon KIM CHANCE: Yes, it is a matter of law.
(3) What volumes of timber would be available in the reserve areas and from step down if they were accessed prior to 2004? (4) What volumes of timber would be available in the moratorium areas if they were accessed prior to 2004? I realise the minister may not have exact volumes for some of those, but I think the fifth question will sum it up. (5) Will the areas mentioned in (3) and (4) be accessed prior to 2004 to make more timber available after 2004? Hon KIM CHANCE replied: (1) Contracts are not normally entered into for third-grade jarrah. Generally speaking, contracts are - Hon Peter Foss: I was talking not about contracts but about the indicative quantities. Hon KIM CHANCE: I see. I will finish that answer, because not everyone would be aware of that. Contracts are generally entered into on the basis of first and second-grade jarrah only. However, Hon Peter Foss’s question is reasonable, because in the request for proposals document, the Government invited proponents to tender on the basis of first and second-grade bids or - we indicated a preference for this - whole-bole volume. Once whole-bole volume was included, it was necessary, in order to keep an apples-with-apples comparison, to leave open the option to proponents to also indicate in their bid what amount of third grade they would like to have; and some did, on the basis of the figures that I saw. To then create an apples-with-apples comparison, we took everything back to a first and second-grade comparison, simply because we all understand what those numbers mean. However, that standardisation of the issue, although important for our understanding of the process, had virtually no impact on the way in which the propositions were analysed, since they were analysed on the basis of their merit as a whole. Therefore, the answer to why third grade has not been contracted - Hon Peter Foss: That was not the question. What quantities will be available? Hon KIM CHANCE: Okay. The final quantity of third grade that will be available is, of course, entirely dependent on the final quantity of first and second grade that is available. To try to give the member a figure off the top of my head would be extremely difficult, because when I have sought that advice from the Forest Products Commission, I have been advised that those numbers are variable; in other words, there is no set ratio of third grade to the combined numbers of first and second grade, because it depends on what part of the forest people are drawing. Hon Peter Foss: That is why I asked the question, because we cannot draw the conclusion that from 140 000 cubic metres there will be X amount of grade 3 . Therefore, we really need to know what the minister thinks it will be. Hon KIM CHANCE: It is highly variable. I will try to answer the question, but members should be aware that this is my view, and it involves a scientific answer. However, my view is that a minimum number, based on 140 000 cubic metres of grade 1 and 2, would probably be about 60 000 cubic metres of grade 3, with possibly some other timber that had not been regarded as millable being millable; and that is building on the work that was done during the jarrah utilisation trials. I am happy to say that that report is now available, should members want a copy of it. Hon Peter Foss: Yes, I would be interested. Hon KIM CHANCE: They were the Michael Buckton trials. That is probably as good as I can do with that part of the question. (2) The contracts for Nannup and Greenbushes were individual, separate and unrelated contracts to different companies that were awarded over the period of the last two Governments. The Greenbushes agreement, which is the blue leaf agreement, was finalised by the coalition Government, and the Nannup agreement, which is similar in structure, was finalised under the current Government. They were concluded on the basis that the proponents had come to government with a proposition that met the requirements of the Government of that day - I will go into that in a moment because there is a slight difference between the two - as to a means of delivering the Government’s policy in a very clear way, and involved in both instances a clear cut down in the volume of timber that would be used. The differences between the two are that the blue leaf proponents - that is, the Greenbushes proponents - got a slightly better deal than everyone else will get, because that agreement was concluded under the coalition Government, which was working on the Regional Forest Agreement figures, and it applied its numeric factors based on a higher number. The figures are 23 000 cubic metres and 20 000 cubic metres - in both cases, jarrah grades 1 and 2. (3)-(4) If I understand question (3) correctly, it is what volume would be available in reserve boundaries and step downs. This is highly speculative, because the step-down figure will be variable. The PRESIDENT: Question times goes on, and we have had only three questions. If the leader cannot answer the question - Hon KIM CHANCE: I am sorry. I need to explain why it is a difficult question to answer. Step-down volumes are variable, depending on when the companies step down. Obviously, the figure will be larger the earlier the step down occurs. I have used a round figure of 20 000 cubic metres. Reserve boundaries are even more speculative and may be anywhere between 5 000 and 25 000 cubic metres. In the moratorium areas, more accurately it will be about 9 000 cubic metres. (5) There will be an opportunity to access those areas prior to 2004, but again that is speculative because they cannot really be accessed until we have certainty, or a great deal more certainty, on the forest management plan results. Whatever we do cannot compromise the integrity of the forest management plan. Hon Peter Foss: It is lawful now, is it not? Hon KIM CHANCE: Yes, it is a matter of law.
(4) What volumes of timber would be available in the moratorium areas if they were accessed prior to 2004? I realise the minister may not have exact volumes for some of those, but I think the fifth question will sum it up. (5) Will the areas mentioned in (3) and (4) be accessed prior to 2004 to make more timber available after 2004? Hon KIM CHANCE replied: (1) Contracts are not normally entered into for third-grade jarrah. Generally speaking, contracts are - Hon Peter Foss: I was talking not about contracts but about the indicative quantities. Hon KIM CHANCE: I see. I will finish that answer, because not everyone would be aware of that. Contracts are generally entered into on the basis of first and second-grade jarrah only. However, Hon Peter Foss’s question is reasonable, because in the request for proposals document, the Government invited proponents to tender on the basis of first and second-grade bids or - we indicated a preference for this - whole-bole volume. Once whole-bole volume was included, it was necessary, in order to keep an apples-with-apples comparison, to leave open the option to proponents to also indicate in their bid what amount of third grade they would like to have; and some did, on the basis of the figures that I saw. To then create an apples-with-apples comparison, we took everything back to a first and second-grade comparison, simply because we all understand what those numbers mean. However, that standardisation of the issue, although important for our understanding of the process, had virtually no impact on the way in which the propositions were analysed, since they were analysed on the basis of their merit as a whole. Therefore, the answer to why third grade has not been contracted - Hon Peter Foss: That was not the question. What quantities will be available? Hon KIM CHANCE: Okay. The final quantity of third grade that will be available is, of course, entirely dependent on the final quantity of first and second grade that is available. To try to give the member a figure off the top of my head would be extremely difficult, because when I have sought that advice from the Forest Products Commission, I have been advised that those numbers are variable; in other words, there is no set ratio of third grade to the combined numbers of first and second grade, because it depends on what part of the forest people are drawing. Hon Peter Foss: That is why I asked the question, because we cannot draw the conclusion that from 140 000 cubic metres there will be X amount of grade 3 . Therefore, we really need to know what the minister thinks it will be. Hon KIM CHANCE: It is highly variable. I will try to answer the question, but members should be aware that this is my view, and it involves a scientific answer. However, my view is that a minimum number, based on 140 000 cubic metres of grade 1 and 2, would probably be about 60 000 cubic metres of grade 3, with possibly some other timber that had not been regarded as millable being millable; and that is building on the work that was done during the jarrah utilisation trials. I am happy to say that that report is now available, should members want a copy of it. Hon Peter Foss: Yes, I would be interested. Hon KIM CHANCE: They were the Michael Buckton trials. That is probably as good as I can do with that part of the question. (2) The contracts for Nannup and Greenbushes were individual, separate and unrelated contracts to different companies that were awarded over the period of the last two Governments. The Greenbushes agreement, which is the blue leaf agreement, was finalised by the coalition Government, and the Nannup agreement, which is similar in structure, was finalised under the current Government. They were concluded on the basis that the proponents had come to government with a proposition that met the requirements of the Government of that day - I will go into that in a moment because there is a slight difference between the two - as to a means of delivering the Government’s policy in a very clear way, and involved in both instances a clear cut down in the volume of timber that would be used. The differences between the two are that the blue leaf proponents - that is, the Greenbushes proponents - got a slightly better deal than everyone else will get, because that agreement was concluded under the coalition Government, which was working on the Regional Forest Agreement figures, and it applied its numeric factors based on a higher number. The figures are 23 000 cubic metres and 20 000 cubic metres - in both cases, jarrah grades 1 and 2. (3)-(4) If I understand question (3) correctly, it is what volume would be available in reserve boundaries and step downs. This is highly speculative, because the step-down figure will be variable. The PRESIDENT: Question times goes on, and we have had only three questions. If the leader cannot answer the question - Hon KIM CHANCE: I am sorry. I need to explain why it is a difficult question to answer. Step-down volumes are variable, depending on when the companies step down. Obviously, the figure will be larger the earlier the step down occurs. I have used a round figure of 20 000 cubic metres. Reserve boundaries are even more speculative and may be anywhere between 5 000 and 25 000 cubic metres. In the moratorium areas, more accurately it will be about 9 000 cubic metres. (5) There will be an opportunity to access those areas prior to 2004, but again that is speculative because they cannot really be accessed until we have certainty, or a great deal more certainty, on the forest management plan results. Whatever we do cannot compromise the integrity of the forest management plan. Hon Peter Foss: It is lawful now, is it not? Hon KIM CHANCE: Yes, it is a matter of law.
(5) Will the areas mentioned in (3) and (4) be accessed prior to 2004 to make more timber available after 2004? Hon KIM CHANCE replied: (1) Contracts are not normally entered into for third-grade jarrah. Generally speaking, contracts are - Hon Peter Foss: I was talking not about contracts but about the indicative quantities. Hon KIM CHANCE: I see. I will finish that answer, because not everyone would be aware of that. Contracts are generally entered into on the basis of first and second-grade jarrah only. However, Hon Peter Foss’s question is reasonable, because in the request for proposals document, the Government invited proponents to tender on the basis of first and second-grade bids or - we indicated a preference for this - whole-bole volume. Once whole-bole volume was included, it was necessary, in order to keep an apples-with-apples comparison, to leave open the option to proponents to also indicate in their bid what amount of third grade they would like to have; and some did, on the basis of the figures that I saw. To then create an apples-with-apples comparison, we took everything back to a first and second-grade comparison, simply because we all understand what those numbers mean. However, that standardisation of the issue, although important for our understanding of the process, had virtually no impact on the way in which the propositions were analysed, since they were analysed on the basis of their merit as a whole. Therefore, the answer to why third grade has not been contracted - Hon Peter Foss: That was not the question. What quantities will be available? Hon KIM CHANCE: Okay. The final quantity of third grade that will be available is, of course, entirely dependent on the final quantity of first and second grade that is available. To try to give the member a figure off the top of my head would be extremely difficult, because when I have sought that advice from the Forest Products Commission, I have been advised that those numbers are variable; in other words, there is no set ratio of third grade to the combined numbers of first and second grade, because it depends on what part of the forest people are drawing. Hon Peter Foss: That is why I asked the question, because we cannot draw the conclusion that from 140 000 cubic metres there will be X amount of grade 3 . Therefore, we really need to know what the minister thinks it will be. Hon KIM CHANCE: It is highly variable. I will try to answer the question, but members should be aware that this is my view, and it involves a scientific answer. However, my view is that a minimum number, based on 140 000 cubic metres of grade 1 and 2, would probably be about 60 000 cubic metres of grade 3, with possibly some other timber that had not been regarded as millable being millable; and that is building on the work that was done during the jarrah utilisation trials. I am happy to say that that report is now available, should members want a copy of it. Hon Peter Foss: Yes, I would be interested. Hon KIM CHANCE: They were the Michael Buckton trials. That is probably as good as I can do with that part of the question. (2) The contracts for Nannup and Greenbushes were individual, separate and unrelated contracts to different companies that were awarded over the period of the last two Governments. The Greenbushes agreement, which is the blue leaf agreement, was finalised by the coalition Government, and the Nannup agreement, which is similar in structure, was finalised under the current Government. They were concluded on the basis that the proponents had come to government with a proposition that met the requirements of the Government of that day - I will go into that in a moment because there is a slight difference between the two - as to a means of delivering the Government’s policy in a very clear way, and involved in both instances a clear cut down in the volume of timber that would be used. The differences between the two are that the blue leaf proponents - that is, the Greenbushes proponents - got a slightly better deal than everyone else will get, because that agreement was concluded under the coalition Government, which was working on the Regional Forest Agreement figures, and it applied its numeric factors based on a higher number. The figures are 23 000 cubic metres and 20 000 cubic metres - in both cases, jarrah grades 1 and 2. (3)-(4) If I understand question (3) correctly, it is what volume would be available in reserve boundaries and step downs. This is highly speculative, because the step-down figure will be variable. The PRESIDENT: Question times goes on, and we have had only three questions. If the leader cannot answer the question - Hon KIM CHANCE: I am sorry. I need to explain why it is a difficult question to answer. Step-down volumes are variable, depending on when the companies step down. Obviously, the figure will be larger the earlier the step down occurs. I have used a round figure of 20 000 cubic metres. Reserve boundaries are even more speculative and may be anywhere between 5 000 and 25 000 cubic metres. In the moratorium areas, more accurately it will be about 9 000 cubic metres. (5) There will be an opportunity to access those areas prior to 2004, but again that is speculative because they cannot really be accessed until we have certainty, or a great deal more certainty, on the forest management plan results. Whatever we do cannot compromise the integrity of the forest management plan. Hon Peter Foss: It is lawful now, is it not? Hon KIM CHANCE: Yes, it is a matter of law.
Hon KIM CHANCE replied: (1) Contracts are not normally entered into for third-grade jarrah. Generally speaking, contracts are - Hon Peter Foss: I was talking not about contracts but about the indicative quantities. Hon KIM CHANCE: I see. I will finish that answer, because not everyone would be aware of that. Contracts are generally entered into on the basis of first and second-grade jarrah only. However, Hon Peter Foss’s question is reasonable, because in the request for proposals document, the Government invited proponents to tender on the basis of first and second-grade bids or - we indicated a preference for this - whole-bole volume. Once whole-bole volume was included, it was necessary, in order to keep an apples-with-apples comparison, to leave open the option to proponents to also indicate in their bid what amount of third grade they would like to have; and some did, on the basis of the figures that I saw. To then create an apples-with-apples comparison, we took everything back to a first and second-grade comparison, simply because we all understand what those numbers mean. However, that standardisation of the issue, although important for our understanding of the process, had virtually no impact on the way in which the propositions were analysed, since they were analysed on the basis of their merit as a whole. Therefore, the answer to why third grade has not been contracted - Hon Peter Foss: That was not the question. What quantities will be available? Hon KIM CHANCE: Okay. The final quantity of third grade that will be available is, of course, entirely dependent on the final quantity of first and second grade that is available. To try to give the member a figure off the top of my head would be extremely difficult, because when I have sought that advice from the Forest Products Commission, I have been advised that those numbers are variable; in other words, there is no set ratio of third grade to the combined numbers of first and second grade, because it depends on what part of the forest people are drawing. Hon Peter Foss: That is why I asked the question, because we cannot draw the conclusion that from 140 000 cubic metres there will be X amount of grade 3 . Therefore, we really need to know what the minister thinks it will be. Hon KIM CHANCE: It is highly variable. I will try to answer the question, but members should be aware that this is my view, and it involves a scientific answer. However, my view is that a minimum number, based on 140 000 cubic metres of grade 1 and 2, would probably be about 60 000 cubic metres of grade 3, with possibly some other timber that had not been regarded as millable being millable; and that is building on the work that was done during the jarrah utilisation trials. I am happy to say that that report is now available, should members want a copy of it. Hon Peter Foss: Yes, I would be interested. Hon KIM CHANCE: They were the Michael Buckton trials. That is probably as good as I can do with that part of the question. (2) The contracts for Nannup and Greenbushes were individual, separate and unrelated contracts to different companies that were awarded over the period of the last two Governments. The Greenbushes agreement, which is the blue leaf agreement, was finalised by the coalition Government, and the Nannup agreement, which is similar in structure, was finalised under the current Government. They were concluded on the basis that the proponents had come to government with a proposition that met the requirements of the Government of that day - I will go into that in a moment because there is a slight difference between the two - as to a means of delivering the Government’s policy in a very clear way, and involved in both instances a clear cut down in the volume of timber that would be used. The differences between the two are that the blue leaf proponents - that is, the Greenbushes proponents - got a slightly better deal than everyone else will get, because that agreement was concluded under the coalition Government, which was working on the Regional Forest Agreement figures, and it applied its numeric factors based on a higher number. The figures are 23 000 cubic metres and 20 000 cubic metres - in both cases, jarrah grades 1 and 2. (3)-(4) If I understand question (3) correctly, it is what volume would be available in reserve boundaries and step downs. This is highly speculative, because the step-down figure will be variable. The PRESIDENT: Question times goes on, and we have had only three questions. If the leader cannot answer the question - Hon KIM CHANCE: I am sorry. I need to explain why it is a difficult question to answer. Step-down volumes are variable, depending on when the companies step down. Obviously, the figure will be larger the earlier the step down occurs. I have used a round figure of 20 000 cubic metres. Reserve boundaries are even more speculative and may be anywhere between 5 000 and 25 000 cubic metres. In the moratorium areas, more accurately it will be about 9 000 cubic metres. (5) There will be an opportunity to access those areas prior to 2004, but again that is speculative because they cannot really be accessed until we have certainty, or a great deal more certainty, on the forest management plan results. Whatever we do cannot compromise the integrity of the forest management plan. Hon Peter Foss: It is lawful now, is it not? Hon KIM CHANCE: Yes, it is a matter of law.
(1) Contracts are not normally entered into for third-grade jarrah. Generally speaking, contracts are - Hon Peter Foss: I was talking not about contracts but about the indicative quantities. Hon KIM CHANCE: I see. I will finish that answer, because not everyone would be aware of that. Contracts are generally entered into on the basis of first and second-grade jarrah only. However, Hon Peter Foss’s question is reasonable, because in the request for proposals document, the Government invited proponents to tender on the basis of first and second-grade bids or - we indicated a preference for this - whole-bole volume. Once whole-bole volume was included, it was necessary, in order to keep an apples-with-apples comparison, to leave open the option to proponents to also indicate in their bid what amount of third grade they would like to have; and some did, on the basis of the figures that I saw. To then create an apples-with-apples comparison, we took everything back to a first and second-grade comparison, simply because we all understand what those numbers mean. However, that standardisation of the issue, although important for our understanding of the process, had virtually no impact on the way in which the propositions were analysed, since they were analysed on the basis of their merit as a whole. Therefore, the answer to why third grade has not been contracted - Hon Peter Foss: That was not the question. What quantities will be available? Hon KIM CHANCE: Okay. The final quantity of third grade that will be available is, of course, entirely dependent on the final quantity of first and second grade that is available. To try to give the member a figure off the top of my head would be extremely difficult, because when I have sought that advice from the Forest Products Commission, I have been advised that those numbers are variable; in other words, there is no set ratio of third grade to the combined numbers of first and second grade, because it depends on what part of the forest people are drawing. Hon Peter Foss: That is why I asked the question, because we cannot draw the conclusion that from 140 000 cubic metres there will be X amount of grade 3 . Therefore, we really need to know what the minister thinks it will be. Hon KIM CHANCE: It is highly variable. I will try to answer the question, but members should be aware that this is my view, and it involves a scientific answer. However, my view is that a minimum number, based on 140 000 cubic metres of grade 1 and 2, would probably be about 60 000 cubic metres of grade 3, with possibly some other timber that had not been regarded as millable being millable; and that is building on the work that was done during the jarrah utilisation trials. I am happy to say that that report is now available, should members want a copy of it. Hon Peter Foss: Yes, I would be interested. Hon KIM CHANCE: They were the Michael Buckton trials. That is probably as good as I can do with that part of the question. (2) The contracts for Nannup and Greenbushes were individual, separate and unrelated contracts to different companies that were awarded over the period of the last two Governments. The Greenbushes agreement, which is the blue leaf agreement, was finalised by the coalition Government, and the Nannup agreement, which is similar in structure, was finalised under the current Government. They were concluded on the basis that the proponents had come to government with a proposition that met the requirements of the Government of that day - I will go into that in a moment because there is a slight difference between the two - as to a means of delivering the Government’s policy in a very clear way, and involved in both instances a clear cut down in the volume of timber that would be used. The differences between the two are that the blue leaf proponents - that is, the Greenbushes proponents - got a slightly better deal than everyone else will get, because that agreement was concluded under the coalition Government, which was working on the Regional Forest Agreement figures, and it applied its numeric factors based on a higher number. The figures are 23 000 cubic metres and 20 000 cubic metres - in both cases, jarrah grades 1 and 2. (3)-(4) If I understand question (3) correctly, it is what volume would be available in reserve boundaries and step downs. This is highly speculative, because the step-down figure will be variable. The PRESIDENT: Question times goes on, and we have had only three questions. If the leader cannot answer the question - Hon KIM CHANCE: I am sorry. I need to explain why it is a difficult question to answer. Step-down volumes are variable, depending on when the companies step down. Obviously, the figure will be larger the earlier the step down occurs. I have used a round figure of 20 000 cubic metres. Reserve boundaries are even more speculative and may be anywhere between 5 000 and 25 000 cubic metres. In the moratorium areas, more accurately it will be about 9 000 cubic metres. (5) There will be an opportunity to access those areas prior to 2004, but again that is speculative because they cannot really be accessed until we have certainty, or a great deal more certainty, on the forest management plan results. Whatever we do cannot compromise the integrity of the forest management plan. Hon Peter Foss: It is lawful now, is it not? Hon KIM CHANCE: Yes, it is a matter of law.
Hon Peter Foss: I was talking not about contracts but about the indicative quantities. Hon KIM CHANCE: I see. I will finish that answer, because not everyone would be aware of that. Contracts are generally entered into on the basis of first and second-grade jarrah only. However, Hon Peter Foss’s question is reasonable, because in the request for proposals document, the Government invited proponents to tender on the basis of first and second-grade bids or - we indicated a preference for this - whole-bole volume. Once whole-bole volume was included, it was necessary, in order to keep an apples-with-apples comparison, to leave open the option to proponents to also indicate in their bid what amount of third grade they would like to have; and some did, on the basis of the figures that I saw. To then create an apples-with-apples comparison, we took everything back to a first and second-grade comparison, simply because we all understand what those numbers mean. However, that standardisation of the issue, although important for our understanding of the process, had virtually no impact on the way in which the propositions were analysed, since they were analysed on the basis of their merit as a whole. Therefore, the answer to why third grade has not been contracted - Hon Peter Foss: That was not the question. What quantities will be available? Hon KIM CHANCE: Okay. The final quantity of third grade that will be available is, of course, entirely dependent on the final quantity of first and second grade that is available. To try to give the member a figure off the top of my head would be extremely difficult, because when I have sought that advice from the Forest Products Commission, I have been advised that those numbers are variable; in other words, there is no set ratio of third grade to the combined numbers of first and second grade, because it depends on what part of the forest people are drawing. Hon Peter Foss: That is why I asked the question, because we cannot draw the conclusion that from 140 000 cubic metres there will be X amount of grade 3 . Therefore, we really need to know what the minister thinks it will be. Hon KIM CHANCE: It is highly variable. I will try to answer the question, but members should be aware that this is my view, and it involves a scientific answer. However, my view is that a minimum number, based on 140 000 cubic metres of grade 1 and 2, would probably be about 60 000 cubic metres of grade 3, with possibly some other timber that had not been regarded as millable being millable; and that is building on the work that was done during the jarrah utilisation trials. I am happy to say that that report is now available, should members want a copy of it. Hon Peter Foss: Yes, I would be interested. Hon KIM CHANCE: They were the Michael Buckton trials. That is probably as good as I can do with that part of the question. (2) The contracts for Nannup and Greenbushes were individual, separate and unrelated contracts to different companies that were awarded over the period of the last two Governments. The Greenbushes agreement, which is the blue leaf agreement, was finalised by the coalition Government, and the Nannup agreement, which is similar in structure, was finalised under the current Government. They were concluded on the basis that the proponents had come to government with a proposition that met the requirements of the Government of that day - I will go into that in a moment because there is a slight difference between the two - as to a means of delivering the Government’s policy in a very clear way, and involved in both instances a clear cut down in the volume of timber that would be used. The differences between the two are that the blue leaf proponents - that is, the Greenbushes proponents - got a slightly better deal than everyone else will get, because that agreement was concluded under the coalition Government, which was working on the Regional Forest Agreement figures, and it applied its numeric factors based on a higher number. The figures are 23 000 cubic metres and 20 000 cubic metres - in both cases, jarrah grades 1 and 2. (3)-(4) If I understand question (3) correctly, it is what volume would be available in reserve boundaries and step downs. This is highly speculative, because the step-down figure will be variable. The PRESIDENT: Question times goes on, and we have had only three questions. If the leader cannot answer the question - Hon KIM CHANCE: I am sorry. I need to explain why it is a difficult question to answer. Step-down volumes are variable, depending on when the companies step down. Obviously, the figure will be larger the earlier the step down occurs. I have used a round figure of 20 000 cubic metres. Reserve boundaries are even more speculative and may be anywhere between 5 000 and 25 000 cubic metres. In the moratorium areas, more accurately it will be about 9 000 cubic metres. (5) There will be an opportunity to access those areas prior to 2004, but again that is speculative because they cannot really be accessed until we have certainty, or a great deal more certainty, on the forest management plan results. Whatever we do cannot compromise the integrity of the forest management plan. Hon Peter Foss: It is lawful now, is it not? Hon KIM CHANCE: Yes, it is a matter of law.
Hon KIM CHANCE: I see. I will finish that answer, because not everyone would be aware of that. Contracts are generally entered into on the basis of first and second-grade jarrah only. However, Hon Peter Foss’s question is reasonable, because in the request for proposals document, the Government invited proponents to tender on the basis of first and second-grade bids or - we indicated a preference for this - whole-bole volume. Once whole-bole volume was included, it was necessary, in order to keep an apples-with-apples comparison, to leave open the option to proponents to also indicate in their bid what amount of third grade they would like to have; and some did, on the basis of the figures that I saw. To then create an apples-with-apples comparison, we took everything back to a first and second-grade comparison, simply because we all understand what those numbers mean. However, that standardisation of the issue, although important for our understanding of the process, had virtually no impact on the way in which the propositions were analysed, since they were analysed on the basis of their merit as a whole. Therefore, the answer to why third grade has not been contracted - Hon Peter Foss: That was not the question. What quantities will be available? Hon KIM CHANCE: Okay. The final quantity of third grade that will be available is, of course, entirely dependent on the final quantity of first and second grade that is available. To try to give the member a figure off the top of my head would be extremely difficult, because when I have sought that advice from the Forest Products Commission, I have been advised that those numbers are variable; in other words, there is no set ratio of third grade to the combined numbers of first and second grade, because it depends on what part of the forest people are drawing. Hon Peter Foss: That is why I asked the question, because we cannot draw the conclusion that from 140 000 cubic metres there will be X amount of grade 3 . Therefore, we really need to know what the minister thinks it will be. Hon KIM CHANCE: It is highly variable. I will try to answer the question, but members should be aware that this is my view, and it involves a scientific answer. However, my view is that a minimum number, based on 140 000 cubic metres of grade 1 and 2, would probably be about 60 000 cubic metres of grade 3, with possibly some other timber that had not been regarded as millable being millable; and that is building on the work that was done during the jarrah utilisation trials. I am happy to say that that report is now available, should members want a copy of it. Hon Peter Foss: Yes, I would be interested. Hon KIM CHANCE: They were the Michael Buckton trials. That is probably as good as I can do with that part of the question. (2) The contracts for Nannup and Greenbushes were individual, separate and unrelated contracts to different companies that were awarded over the period of the last two Governments. The Greenbushes agreement, which is the blue leaf agreement, was finalised by the coalition Government, and the Nannup agreement, which is similar in structure, was finalised under the current Government. They were concluded on the basis that the proponents had come to government with a proposition that met the requirements of the Government of that day - I will go into that in a moment because there is a slight difference between the two - as to a means of delivering the Government’s policy in a very clear way, and involved in both instances a clear cut down in the volume of timber that would be used. The differences between the two are that the blue leaf proponents - that is, the Greenbushes proponents - got a slightly better deal than everyone else will get, because that agreement was concluded under the coalition Government, which was working on the Regional Forest Agreement figures, and it applied its numeric factors based on a higher number. The figures are 23 000 cubic metres and 20 000 cubic metres - in both cases, jarrah grades 1 and 2. (3)-(4) If I understand question (3) correctly, it is what volume would be available in reserve boundaries and step downs. This is highly speculative, because the step-down figure will be variable. The PRESIDENT: Question times goes on, and we have had only three questions. If the leader cannot answer the question - Hon KIM CHANCE: I am sorry. I need to explain why it is a difficult question to answer. Step-down volumes are variable, depending on when the companies step down. Obviously, the figure will be larger the earlier the step down occurs. I have used a round figure of 20 000 cubic metres. Reserve boundaries are even more speculative and may be anywhere between 5 000 and 25 000 cubic metres. In the moratorium areas, more accurately it will be about 9 000 cubic metres. (5) There will be an opportunity to access those areas prior to 2004, but again that is speculative because they cannot really be accessed until we have certainty, or a great deal more certainty, on the forest management plan results. Whatever we do cannot compromise the integrity of the forest management plan. Hon Peter Foss: It is lawful now, is it not? Hon KIM CHANCE: Yes, it is a matter of law.
Hon Peter Foss: That was not the question. What quantities will be available? Hon KIM CHANCE: Okay. The final quantity of third grade that will be available is, of course, entirely dependent on the final quantity of first and second grade that is available. To try to give the member a figure off the top of my head would be extremely difficult, because when I have sought that advice from the Forest Products Commission, I have been advised that those numbers are variable; in other words, there is no set ratio of third grade to the combined numbers of first and second grade, because it depends on what part of the forest people are drawing. Hon Peter Foss: That is why I asked the question, because we cannot draw the conclusion that from 140 000 cubic metres there will be X amount of grade 3 . Therefore, we really need to know what the minister thinks it will be. Hon KIM CHANCE: It is highly variable. I will try to answer the question, but members should be aware that this is my view, and it involves a scientific answer. However, my view is that a minimum number, based on 140 000 cubic metres of grade 1 and 2, would probably be about 60 000 cubic metres of grade 3, with possibly some other timber that had not been regarded as millable being millable; and that is building on the work that was done during the jarrah utilisation trials. I am happy to say that that report is now available, should members want a copy of it. Hon Peter Foss: Yes, I would be interested. Hon KIM CHANCE: They were the Michael Buckton trials. That is probably as good as I can do with that part of the question. (2) The contracts for Nannup and Greenbushes were individual, separate and unrelated contracts to different companies that were awarded over the period of the last two Governments. The Greenbushes agreement, which is the blue leaf agreement, was finalised by the coalition Government, and the Nannup agreement, which is similar in structure, was finalised under the current Government. They were concluded on the basis that the proponents had come to government with a proposition that met the requirements of the Government of that day - I will go into that in a moment because there is a slight difference between the two - as to a means of delivering the Government’s policy in a very clear way, and involved in both instances a clear cut down in the volume of timber that would be used. The differences between the two are that the blue leaf proponents - that is, the Greenbushes proponents - got a slightly better deal than everyone else will get, because that agreement was concluded under the coalition Government, which was working on the Regional Forest Agreement figures, and it applied its numeric factors based on a higher number. The figures are 23 000 cubic metres and 20 000 cubic metres - in both cases, jarrah grades 1 and 2. (3)-(4) If I understand question (3) correctly, it is what volume would be available in reserve boundaries and step downs. This is highly speculative, because the step-down figure will be variable. The PRESIDENT: Question times goes on, and we have had only three questions. If the leader cannot answer the question - Hon KIM CHANCE: I am sorry. I need to explain why it is a difficult question to answer. Step-down volumes are variable, depending on when the companies step down. Obviously, the figure will be larger the earlier the step down occurs. I have used a round figure of 20 000 cubic metres. Reserve boundaries are even more speculative and may be anywhere between 5 000 and 25 000 cubic metres. In the moratorium areas, more accurately it will be about 9 000 cubic metres. (5) There will be an opportunity to access those areas prior to 2004, but again that is speculative because they cannot really be accessed until we have certainty, or a great deal more certainty, on the forest management plan results. Whatever we do cannot compromise the integrity of the forest management plan. Hon Peter Foss: It is lawful now, is it not? Hon KIM CHANCE: Yes, it is a matter of law.
Hon KIM CHANCE: Okay. The final quantity of third grade that will be available is, of course, entirely dependent on the final quantity of first and second grade that is available. To try to give the member a figure off the top of my head would be extremely difficult, because when I have sought that advice from the Forest Products Commission, I have been advised that those numbers are variable; in other words, there is no set ratio of third grade to the combined numbers of first and second grade, because it depends on what part of the forest people are drawing. Hon Peter Foss: That is why I asked the question, because we cannot draw the conclusion that from 140 000 cubic metres there will be X amount of grade 3 . Therefore, we really need to know what the minister thinks it will be. Hon KIM CHANCE: It is highly variable. I will try to answer the question, but members should be aware that this is my view, and it involves a scientific answer. However, my view is that a minimum number, based on 140 000 cubic metres of grade 1 and 2, would probably be about 60 000 cubic metres of grade 3, with possibly some other timber that had not been regarded as millable being millable; and that is building on the work that was done during the jarrah utilisation trials. I am happy to say that that report is now available, should members want a copy of it. Hon Peter Foss: Yes, I would be interested. Hon KIM CHANCE: They were the Michael Buckton trials. That is probably as good as I can do with that part of the question. (2) The contracts for Nannup and Greenbushes were individual, separate and unrelated contracts to different companies that were awarded over the period of the last two Governments. The Greenbushes agreement, which is the blue leaf agreement, was finalised by the coalition Government, and the Nannup agreement, which is similar in structure, was finalised under the current Government. They were concluded on the basis that the proponents had come to government with a proposition that met the requirements of the Government of that day - I will go into that in a moment because there is a slight difference between the two - as to a means of delivering the Government’s policy in a very clear way, and involved in both instances a clear cut down in the volume of timber that would be used. The differences between the two are that the blue leaf proponents - that is, the Greenbushes proponents - got a slightly better deal than everyone else will get, because that agreement was concluded under the coalition Government, which was working on the Regional Forest Agreement figures, and it applied its numeric factors based on a higher number. The figures are 23 000 cubic metres and 20 000 cubic metres - in both cases, jarrah grades 1 and 2. (3)-(4) If I understand question (3) correctly, it is what volume would be available in reserve boundaries and step downs. This is highly speculative, because the step-down figure will be variable. The PRESIDENT: Question times goes on, and we have had only three questions. If the leader cannot answer the question - Hon KIM CHANCE: I am sorry. I need to explain why it is a difficult question to answer. Step-down volumes are variable, depending on when the companies step down. Obviously, the figure will be larger the earlier the step down occurs. I have used a round figure of 20 000 cubic metres. Reserve boundaries are even more speculative and may be anywhere between 5 000 and 25 000 cubic metres. In the moratorium areas, more accurately it will be about 9 000 cubic metres. (5) There will be an opportunity to access those areas prior to 2004, but again that is speculative because they cannot really be accessed until we have certainty, or a great deal more certainty, on the forest management plan results. Whatever we do cannot compromise the integrity of the forest management plan. Hon Peter Foss: It is lawful now, is it not? Hon KIM CHANCE: Yes, it is a matter of law.
Hon Peter Foss: That is why I asked the question, because we cannot draw the conclusion that from 140 000 cubic metres there will be X amount of grade 3 . Therefore, we really need to know what the minister thinks it will be. Hon KIM CHANCE: It is highly variable. I will try to answer the question, but members should be aware that this is my view, and it involves a scientific answer. However, my view is that a minimum number, based on 140 000 cubic metres of grade 1 and 2, would probably be about 60 000 cubic metres of grade 3, with possibly some other timber that had not been regarded as millable being millable; and that is building on the work that was done during the jarrah utilisation trials. I am happy to say that that report is now available, should members want a copy of it. Hon Peter Foss: Yes, I would be interested. Hon KIM CHANCE: They were the Michael Buckton trials. That is probably as good as I can do with that part of the question. (2) The contracts for Nannup and Greenbushes were individual, separate and unrelated contracts to different companies that were awarded over the period of the last two Governments. The Greenbushes agreement, which is the blue leaf agreement, was finalised by the coalition Government, and the Nannup agreement, which is similar in structure, was finalised under the current Government. They were concluded on the basis that the proponents had come to government with a proposition that met the requirements of the Government of that day - I will go into that in a moment because there is a slight difference between the two - as to a means of delivering the Government’s policy in a very clear way, and involved in both instances a clear cut down in the volume of timber that would be used. The differences between the two are that the blue leaf proponents - that is, the Greenbushes proponents - got a slightly better deal than everyone else will get, because that agreement was concluded under the coalition Government, which was working on the Regional Forest Agreement figures, and it applied its numeric factors based on a higher number. The figures are 23 000 cubic metres and 20 000 cubic metres - in both cases, jarrah grades 1 and 2. (3)-(4) If I understand question (3) correctly, it is what volume would be available in reserve boundaries and step downs. This is highly speculative, because the step-down figure will be variable. The PRESIDENT: Question times goes on, and we have had only three questions. If the leader cannot answer the question - Hon KIM CHANCE: I am sorry. I need to explain why it is a difficult question to answer. Step-down volumes are variable, depending on when the companies step down. Obviously, the figure will be larger the earlier the step down occurs. I have used a round figure of 20 000 cubic metres. Reserve boundaries are even more speculative and may be anywhere between 5 000 and 25 000 cubic metres. In the moratorium areas, more accurately it will be about 9 000 cubic metres. (5) There will be an opportunity to access those areas prior to 2004, but again that is speculative because they cannot really be accessed until we have certainty, or a great deal more certainty, on the forest management plan results. Whatever we do cannot compromise the integrity of the forest management plan. Hon Peter Foss: It is lawful now, is it not? Hon KIM CHANCE: Yes, it is a matter of law.
Hon KIM CHANCE: It is highly variable. I will try to answer the question, but members should be aware that this is my view, and it involves a scientific answer. However, my view is that a minimum number, based on 140 000 cubic metres of grade 1 and 2, would probably be about 60 000 cubic metres of grade 3, with possibly some other timber that had not been regarded as millable being millable; and that is building on the work that was done during the jarrah utilisation trials. I am happy to say that that report is now available, should members want a copy of it. Hon Peter Foss: Yes, I would be interested. Hon KIM CHANCE: They were the Michael Buckton trials. That is probably as good as I can do with that part of the question. (2) The contracts for Nannup and Greenbushes were individual, separate and unrelated contracts to different companies that were awarded over the period of the last two Governments. The Greenbushes agreement, which is the blue leaf agreement, was finalised by the coalition Government, and the Nannup agreement, which is similar in structure, was finalised under the current Government. They were concluded on the basis that the proponents had come to government with a proposition that met the requirements of the Government of that day - I will go into that in a moment because there is a slight difference between the two - as to a means of delivering the Government’s policy in a very clear way, and involved in both instances a clear cut down in the volume of timber that would be used. The differences between the two are that the blue leaf proponents - that is, the Greenbushes proponents - got a slightly better deal than everyone else will get, because that agreement was concluded under the coalition Government, which was working on the Regional Forest Agreement figures, and it applied its numeric factors based on a higher number. The figures are 23 000 cubic metres and 20 000 cubic metres - in both cases, jarrah grades 1 and 2. (3)-(4) If I understand question (3) correctly, it is what volume would be available in reserve boundaries and step downs. This is highly speculative, because the step-down figure will be variable. The PRESIDENT: Question times goes on, and we have had only three questions. If the leader cannot answer the question - Hon KIM CHANCE: I am sorry. I need to explain why it is a difficult question to answer. Step-down volumes are variable, depending on when the companies step down. Obviously, the figure will be larger the earlier the step down occurs. I have used a round figure of 20 000 cubic metres. Reserve boundaries are even more speculative and may be anywhere between 5 000 and 25 000 cubic metres. In the moratorium areas, more accurately it will be about 9 000 cubic metres. (5) There will be an opportunity to access those areas prior to 2004, but again that is speculative because they cannot really be accessed until we have certainty, or a great deal more certainty, on the forest management plan results. Whatever we do cannot compromise the integrity of the forest management plan. Hon Peter Foss: It is lawful now, is it not? Hon KIM CHANCE: Yes, it is a matter of law.
Hon Peter Foss: Yes, I would be interested. Hon KIM CHANCE: They were the Michael Buckton trials. That is probably as good as I can do with that part of the question. (2) The contracts for Nannup and Greenbushes were individual, separate and unrelated contracts to different companies that were awarded over the period of the last two Governments. The Greenbushes agreement, which is the blue leaf agreement, was finalised by the coalition Government, and the Nannup agreement, which is similar in structure, was finalised under the current Government. They were concluded on the basis that the proponents had come to government with a proposition that met the requirements of the Government of that day - I will go into that in a moment because there is a slight difference between the two - as to a means of delivering the Government’s policy in a very clear way, and involved in both instances a clear cut down in the volume of timber that would be used. The differences between the two are that the blue leaf proponents - that is, the Greenbushes proponents - got a slightly better deal than everyone else will get, because that agreement was concluded under the coalition Government, which was working on the Regional Forest Agreement figures, and it applied its numeric factors based on a higher number. The figures are 23 000 cubic metres and 20 000 cubic metres - in both cases, jarrah grades 1 and 2. (3)-(4) If I understand question (3) correctly, it is what volume would be available in reserve boundaries and step downs. This is highly speculative, because the step-down figure will be variable. The PRESIDENT: Question times goes on, and we have had only three questions. If the leader cannot answer the question - Hon KIM CHANCE: I am sorry. I need to explain why it is a difficult question to answer. Step-down volumes are variable, depending on when the companies step down. Obviously, the figure will be larger the earlier the step down occurs. I have used a round figure of 20 000 cubic metres. Reserve boundaries are even more speculative and may be anywhere between 5 000 and 25 000 cubic metres. In the moratorium areas, more accurately it will be about 9 000 cubic metres. (5) There will be an opportunity to access those areas prior to 2004, but again that is speculative because they cannot really be accessed until we have certainty, or a great deal more certainty, on the forest management plan results. Whatever we do cannot compromise the integrity of the forest management plan. Hon Peter Foss: It is lawful now, is it not? Hon KIM CHANCE: Yes, it is a matter of law.
Hon KIM CHANCE: They were the Michael Buckton trials. That is probably as good as I can do with that part of the question. (2) The contracts for Nannup and Greenbushes were individual, separate and unrelated contracts to different companies that were awarded over the period of the last two Governments. The Greenbushes agreement, which is the blue leaf agreement, was finalised by the coalition Government, and the Nannup agreement, which is similar in structure, was finalised under the current Government. They were concluded on the basis that the proponents had come to government with a proposition that met the requirements of the Government of that day - I will go into that in a moment because there is a slight difference between the two - as to a means of delivering the Government’s policy in a very clear way, and involved in both instances a clear cut down in the volume of timber that would be used. The differences between the two are that the blue leaf proponents - that is, the Greenbushes proponents - got a slightly better deal than everyone else will get, because that agreement was concluded under the coalition Government, which was working on the Regional Forest Agreement figures, and it applied its numeric factors based on a higher number. The figures are 23 000 cubic metres and 20 000 cubic metres - in both cases, jarrah grades 1 and 2. (3)-(4) If I understand question (3) correctly, it is what volume would be available in reserve boundaries and step downs. This is highly speculative, because the step-down figure will be variable. The PRESIDENT: Question times goes on, and we have had only three questions. If the leader cannot answer the question - Hon KIM CHANCE: I am sorry. I need to explain why it is a difficult question to answer. Step-down volumes are variable, depending on when the companies step down. Obviously, the figure will be larger the earlier the step down occurs. I have used a round figure of 20 000 cubic metres. Reserve boundaries are even more speculative and may be anywhere between 5 000 and 25 000 cubic metres. In the moratorium areas, more accurately it will be about 9 000 cubic metres. (5) There will be an opportunity to access those areas prior to 2004, but again that is speculative because they cannot really be accessed until we have certainty, or a great deal more certainty, on the forest management plan results. Whatever we do cannot compromise the integrity of the forest management plan. Hon Peter Foss: It is lawful now, is it not? Hon KIM CHANCE: Yes, it is a matter of law.
(2) The contracts for Nannup and Greenbushes were individual, separate and unrelated contracts to different companies that were awarded over the period of the last two Governments. The Greenbushes agreement, which is the blue leaf agreement, was finalised by the coalition Government, and the Nannup agreement, which is similar in structure, was finalised under the current Government. They were concluded on the basis that the proponents had come to government with a proposition that met the requirements of the Government of that day - I will go into that in a moment because there is a slight difference between the two - as to a means of delivering the Government’s policy in a very clear way, and involved in both instances a clear cut down in the volume of timber that would be used. The differences between the two are that the blue leaf proponents - that is, the Greenbushes proponents - got a slightly better deal than everyone else will get, because that agreement was concluded under the coalition Government, which was working on the Regional Forest Agreement figures, and it applied its numeric factors based on a higher number. The figures are 23 000 cubic metres and 20 000 cubic metres - in both cases, jarrah grades 1 and 2. (3)-(4) If I understand question (3) correctly, it is what volume would be available in reserve boundaries and step downs. This is highly speculative, because the step-down figure will be variable. The PRESIDENT: Question times goes on, and we have had only three questions. If the leader cannot answer the question - Hon KIM CHANCE: I am sorry. I need to explain why it is a difficult question to answer. Step-down volumes are variable, depending on when the companies step down. Obviously, the figure will be larger the earlier the step down occurs. I have used a round figure of 20 000 cubic metres. Reserve boundaries are even more speculative and may be anywhere between 5 000 and 25 000 cubic metres. In the moratorium areas, more accurately it will be about 9 000 cubic metres. (5) There will be an opportunity to access those areas prior to 2004, but again that is speculative because they cannot really be accessed until we have certainty, or a great deal more certainty, on the forest management plan results. Whatever we do cannot compromise the integrity of the forest management plan. Hon Peter Foss: It is lawful now, is it not? Hon KIM CHANCE: Yes, it is a matter of law.
The PRESIDENT: Question times goes on, and we have had only three questions. If the leader cannot answer the question - Hon KIM CHANCE: I am sorry. I need to explain why it is a difficult question to answer. Step-down volumes are variable, depending on when the companies step down. Obviously, the figure will be larger the earlier the step down occurs. I have used a round figure of 20 000 cubic metres. Reserve boundaries are even more speculative and may be anywhere between 5 000 and 25 000 cubic metres. In the moratorium areas, more accurately it will be about 9 000 cubic metres. (5) There will be an opportunity to access those areas prior to 2004, but again that is speculative because they cannot really be accessed until we have certainty, or a great deal more certainty, on the forest management plan results. Whatever we do cannot compromise the integrity of the forest management plan. Hon Peter Foss: It is lawful now, is it not? Hon KIM CHANCE: Yes, it is a matter of law.
Hon KIM CHANCE: I am sorry. I need to explain why it is a difficult question to answer. Step-down volumes are variable, depending on when the companies step down. Obviously, the figure will be larger the earlier the step down occurs. I have used a round figure of 20 000 cubic metres. Reserve boundaries are even more speculative and may be anywhere between 5 000 and 25 000 cubic metres. In the moratorium areas, more accurately it will be about 9 000 cubic metres. (5) There will be an opportunity to access those areas prior to 2004, but again that is speculative because they cannot really be accessed until we have certainty, or a great deal more certainty, on the forest management plan results. Whatever we do cannot compromise the integrity of the forest management plan. Hon Peter Foss: It is lawful now, is it not? Hon KIM CHANCE: Yes, it is a matter of law.
(5) There will be an opportunity to access those areas prior to 2004, but again that is speculative because they cannot really be accessed until we have certainty, or a great deal more certainty, on the forest management plan results. Whatever we do cannot compromise the integrity of the forest management plan. Hon Peter Foss: It is lawful now, is it not? Hon KIM CHANCE: Yes, it is a matter of law.
Hon Peter Foss: It is lawful now, is it not? Hon KIM CHANCE: Yes, it is a matter of law.
Hon KIM CHANCE: Yes, it is a matter of law.
(2) How is it that the Nannup and Greenbushes mills can be awarded contracts before the completion of the management plan, but no other mills can be awarded similar contracts? (3) What volumes of timber would be available in the reserve areas and from step down if they were accessed prior to 2004? (4) What volumes of timber would be available in the moratorium areas if they were accessed prior to 2004? I realise the minister may not have exact volumes for some of those, but I think the fifth question will sum it up. (5) Will the areas mentioned in (3) and (4) be accessed prior to 2004 to make more timber available after 2004? Hon KIM CHANCE replied: (1) Contracts are not normally entered into for third-grade jarrah. Generally speaking, contracts are - Hon Peter Foss: I was talking not about contracts but about the indicative quantities. Hon KIM CHANCE: I see. I will finish that answer, because not everyone would be aware of that. Contracts are generally entered into on the basis of first and second-grade jarrah only. However, Hon Peter Foss’s question is reasonable, because in the request for proposals document, the Government invited proponents to tender on the basis of first and second-grade bids or - we indicated a preference for this - whole-bole volume. Once whole-bole volume was included, it was necessary, in order to keep an apples-with-apples comparison, to leave open the option to proponents to also indicate in their bid what amount of third grade they would like to have; and some did, on the basis of the figures that I saw. To then create an apples-with-apples comparison, we took everything back to a first and second-grade comparison, simply because we all understand what those numbers mean. However, that standardisation of the issue, although important for our understanding of the process, had virtually no impact on the way in which the propositions were analysed, since they were analysed on the basis of their merit as a whole. Therefore, the answer to why third grade has not been contracted - Hon Peter Foss: That was not the question. What quantities will be available? Hon KIM CHANCE: Okay. The final quantity of third grade that will be available is, of course, entirely dependent on the final quantity of first and second grade that is available. To try to give the member a figure off the top of my head would be extremely difficult, because when I have sought that advice from the Forest Products Commission, I have been advised that those numbers are variable; in other words, there is no set ratio of third grade to the combined numbers of first and second grade, because it depends on what part of the forest people are drawing. Hon Peter Foss: That is why I asked the question, because we cannot draw the conclusion that from 140 000 cubic metres there will be X amount of grade 3 . Therefore, we really need to know what the minister thinks it will be. Hon KIM CHANCE: It is highly variable. I will try to answer the question, but members should be aware that this is my view, and it involves a scientific answer. However, my view is that a minimum number, based on 140 000 cubic metres of grade 1 and 2, would probably be about 60 000 cubic metres of grade 3, with possibly some other timber that had not been regarded as millable being millable; and that is building on the work that was done during the jarrah utilisation trials. I am happy to say that that report is now available, should members want a copy of it. Hon Peter Foss: Yes, I would be interested. Hon KIM CHANCE: They were the Michael Buckton trials. That is probably as good as I can do with that part of the question. (2) The contracts for Nannup and Greenbushes were individual, separate and unrelated contracts to different companies that were awarded over the period of the last two Governments. The Greenbushes agreement, which is the blue leaf agreement, was finalised by the coalition Government, and the Nannup agreement, which is similar in structure, was finalised under the current Government. They were concluded on the basis that the proponents had come to government with a proposition that met the requirements of the Government of that day - I will go into that in a moment because there is a slight difference between the two - as to a means of delivering the Government’s policy in a very clear way, and involved in both instances a clear cut down in the volume of timber that would be used. The differences between the two are that the blue leaf proponents - that is, the Greenbushes proponents - got a slightly better deal than everyone else will get, because that agreement was concluded under the coalition Government, which was working on the Regional Forest Agreement figures, and it applied its numeric factors based on a higher number. The figures are 23 000 cubic metres and 20 000 cubic metres - in both cases, jarrah grades 1 and 2. (3)-(4) If I understand question (3) correctly, it is what volume would be available in reserve boundaries and step downs. This is highly speculative, because the step-down figure will be variable. The PRESIDENT: Question times goes on, and we have had only three questions. If the leader cannot answer the question - Hon KIM CHANCE: I am sorry. I need to explain why it is a difficult question to answer. Step-down volumes are variable, depending on when the companies step down. Obviously, the figure will be larger the earlier the step down occurs. I have used a round figure of 20 000 cubic metres. Reserve boundaries are even more speculative and may be anywhere between 5 000 and 25 000 cubic metres. In the moratorium areas, more accurately it will be about 9 000 cubic metres. (5) There will be an opportunity to access those areas prior to 2004, but again that is speculative because they cannot really be accessed until we have certainty, or a great deal more certainty, on the forest management plan results. Whatever we do cannot compromise the integrity of the forest management plan. Hon Peter Foss: It is lawful now, is it not? Hon KIM CHANCE: Yes, it is a matter of law.
(3) What volumes of timber would be available in the reserve areas and from step down if they were accessed prior to 2004? (4) What volumes of timber would be available in the moratorium areas if they were accessed prior to 2004? I realise the minister may not have exact volumes for some of those, but I think the fifth question will sum it up. (5) Will the areas mentioned in (3) and (4) be accessed prior to 2004 to make more timber available after 2004? Hon KIM CHANCE replied: (1) Contracts are not normally entered into for third-grade jarrah. Generally speaking, contracts are - Hon Peter Foss: I was talking not about contracts but about the indicative quantities. Hon KIM CHANCE: I see. I will finish that answer, because not everyone would be aware of that. Contracts are generally entered into on the basis of first and second-grade jarrah only. However, Hon Peter Foss’s question is reasonable, because in the request for proposals document, the Government invited proponents to tender on the basis of first and second-grade bids or - we indicated a preference for this - whole-bole volume. Once whole-bole volume was included, it was necessary, in order to keep an apples-with-apples comparison, to leave open the option to proponents to also indicate in their bid what amount of third grade they would like to have; and some did, on the basis of the figures that I saw. To then create an apples-with-apples comparison, we took everything back to a first and second-grade comparison, simply because we all understand what those numbers mean. However, that standardisation of the issue, although important for our understanding of the process, had virtually no impact on the way in which the propositions were analysed, since they were analysed on the basis of their merit as a whole. Therefore, the answer to why third grade has not been contracted - Hon Peter Foss: That was not the question. What quantities will be available? Hon KIM CHANCE: Okay. The final quantity of third grade that will be available is, of course, entirely dependent on the final quantity of first and second grade that is available. To try to give the member a figure off the top of my head would be extremely difficult, because when I have sought that advice from the Forest Products Commission, I have been advised that those numbers are variable; in other words, there is no set ratio of third grade to the combined numbers of first and second grade, because it depends on what part of the forest people are drawing. Hon Peter Foss: That is why I asked the question, because we cannot draw the conclusion that from 140 000 cubic metres there will be X amount of grade 3 . Therefore, we really need to know what the minister thinks it will be. Hon KIM CHANCE: It is highly variable. I will try to answer the question, but members should be aware that this is my view, and it involves a scientific answer. However, my view is that a minimum number, based on 140 000 cubic metres of grade 1 and 2, would probably be about 60 000 cubic metres of grade 3, with possibly some other timber that had not been regarded as millable being millable; and that is building on the work that was done during the jarrah utilisation trials. I am happy to say that that report is now available, should members want a copy of it. Hon Peter Foss: Yes, I would be interested. Hon KIM CHANCE: They were the Michael Buckton trials. That is probably as good as I can do with that part of the question. (2) The contracts for Nannup and Greenbushes were individual, separate and unrelated contracts to different companies that were awarded over the period of the last two Governments. The Greenbushes agreement, which is the blue leaf agreement, was finalised by the coalition Government, and the Nannup agreement, which is similar in structure, was finalised under the current Government. They were concluded on the basis that the proponents had come to government with a proposition that met the requirements of the Government of that day - I will go into that in a moment because there is a slight difference between the two - as to a means of delivering the Government’s policy in a very clear way, and involved in both instances a clear cut down in the volume of timber that would be used. The differences between the two are that the blue leaf proponents - that is, the Greenbushes proponents - got a slightly better deal than everyone else will get, because that agreement was concluded under the coalition Government, which was working on the Regional Forest Agreement figures, and it applied its numeric factors based on a higher number. The figures are 23 000 cubic metres and 20 000 cubic metres - in both cases, jarrah grades 1 and 2. (3)-(4) If I understand question (3) correctly, it is what volume would be available in reserve boundaries and step downs. This is highly speculative, because the step-down figure will be variable. The PRESIDENT: Question times goes on, and we have had only three questions. If the leader cannot answer the question - Hon KIM CHANCE: I am sorry. I need to explain why it is a difficult question to answer. Step-down volumes are variable, depending on when the companies step down. Obviously, the figure will be larger the earlier the step down occurs. I have used a round figure of 20 000 cubic metres. Reserve boundaries are even more speculative and may be anywhere between 5 000 and 25 000 cubic metres. In the moratorium areas, more accurately it will be about 9 000 cubic metres. (5) There will be an opportunity to access those areas prior to 2004, but again that is speculative because they cannot really be accessed until we have certainty, or a great deal more certainty, on the forest management plan results. Whatever we do cannot compromise the integrity of the forest management plan. Hon Peter Foss: It is lawful now, is it not? Hon KIM CHANCE: Yes, it is a matter of law.
(4) What volumes of timber would be available in the moratorium areas if they were accessed prior to 2004? I realise the minister may not have exact volumes for some of those, but I think the fifth question will sum it up. (5) Will the areas mentioned in (3) and (4) be accessed prior to 2004 to make more timber available after 2004? Hon KIM CHANCE replied: (1) Contracts are not normally entered into for third-grade jarrah. Generally speaking, contracts are - Hon Peter Foss: I was talking not about contracts but about the indicative quantities. Hon KIM CHANCE: I see. I will finish that answer, because not everyone would be aware of that. Contracts are generally entered into on the basis of first and second-grade jarrah only. However, Hon Peter Foss’s question is reasonable, because in the request for proposals document, the Government invited proponents to tender on the basis of first and second-grade bids or - we indicated a preference for this - whole-bole volume. Once whole-bole volume was included, it was necessary, in order to keep an apples-with-apples comparison, to leave open the option to proponents to also indicate in their bid what amount of third grade they would like to have; and some did, on the basis of the figures that I saw. To then create an apples-with-apples comparison, we took everything back to a first and second-grade comparison, simply because we all understand what those numbers mean. However, that standardisation of the issue, although important for our understanding of the process, had virtually no impact on the way in which the propositions were analysed, since they were analysed on the basis of their merit as a whole. Therefore, the answer to why third grade has not been contracted - Hon Peter Foss: That was not the question. What quantities will be available? Hon KIM CHANCE: Okay. The final quantity of third grade that will be available is, of course, entirely dependent on the final quantity of first and second grade that is available. To try to give the member a figure off the top of my head would be extremely difficult, because when I have sought that advice from the Forest Products Commission, I have been advised that those numbers are variable; in other words, there is no set ratio of third grade to the combined numbers of first and second grade, because it depends on what part of the forest people are drawing. Hon Peter Foss: That is why I asked the question, because we cannot draw the conclusion that from 140 000 cubic metres there will be X amount of grade 3 . Therefore, we really need to know what the minister thinks it will be. Hon KIM CHANCE: It is highly variable. I will try to answer the question, but members should be aware that this is my view, and it involves a scientific answer. However, my view is that a minimum number, based on 140 000 cubic metres of grade 1 and 2, would probably be about 60 000 cubic metres of grade 3, with possibly some other timber that had not been regarded as millable being millable; and that is building on the work that was done during the jarrah utilisation trials. I am happy to say that that report is now available, should members want a copy of it. Hon Peter Foss: Yes, I would be interested. Hon KIM CHANCE: They were the Michael Buckton trials. That is probably as good as I can do with that part of the question. (2) The contracts for Nannup and Greenbushes were individual, separate and unrelated contracts to different companies that were awarded over the period of the last two Governments. The Greenbushes agreement, which is the blue leaf agreement, was finalised by the coalition Government, and the Nannup agreement, which is similar in structure, was finalised under the current Government. They were concluded on the basis that the proponents had come to government with a proposition that met the requirements of the Government of that day - I will go into that in a moment because there is a slight difference between the two - as to a means of delivering the Government’s policy in a very clear way, and involved in both instances a clear cut down in the volume of timber that would be used. The differences between the two are that the blue leaf proponents - that is, the Greenbushes proponents - got a slightly better deal than everyone else will get, because that agreement was concluded under the coalition Government, which was working on the Regional Forest Agreement figures, and it applied its numeric factors based on a higher number. The figures are 23 000 cubic metres and 20 000 cubic metres - in both cases, jarrah grades 1 and 2. (3)-(4) If I understand question (3) correctly, it is what volume would be available in reserve boundaries and step downs. This is highly speculative, because the step-down figure will be variable. The PRESIDENT: Question times goes on, and we have had only three questions. If the leader cannot answer the question - Hon KIM CHANCE: I am sorry. I need to explain why it is a difficult question to answer. Step-down volumes are variable, depending on when the companies step down. Obviously, the figure will be larger the earlier the step down occurs. I have used a round figure of 20 000 cubic metres. Reserve boundaries are even more speculative and may be anywhere between 5 000 and 25 000 cubic metres. In the moratorium areas, more accurately it will be about 9 000 cubic metres. (5) There will be an opportunity to access those areas prior to 2004, but again that is speculative because they cannot really be accessed until we have certainty, or a great deal more certainty, on the forest management plan results. Whatever we do cannot compromise the integrity of the forest management plan. Hon Peter Foss: It is lawful now, is it not? Hon KIM CHANCE: Yes, it is a matter of law.
(5) Will the areas mentioned in (3) and (4) be accessed prior to 2004 to make more timber available after 2004? Hon KIM CHANCE replied: (1) Contracts are not normally entered into for third-grade jarrah. Generally speaking, contracts are - Hon Peter Foss: I was talking not about contracts but about the indicative quantities. Hon KIM CHANCE: I see. I will finish that answer, because not everyone would be aware of that. Contracts are generally entered into on the basis of first and second-grade jarrah only. However, Hon Peter Foss’s question is reasonable, because in the request for proposals document, the Government invited proponents to tender on the basis of first and second-grade bids or - we indicated a preference for this - whole-bole volume. Once whole-bole volume was included, it was necessary, in order to keep an apples-with-apples comparison, to leave open the option to proponents to also indicate in their bid what amount of third grade they would like to have; and some did, on the basis of the figures that I saw. To then create an apples-with-apples comparison, we took everything back to a first and second-grade comparison, simply because we all understand what those numbers mean. However, that standardisation of the issue, although important for our understanding of the process, had virtually no impact on the way in which the propositions were analysed, since they were analysed on the basis of their merit as a whole. Therefore, the answer to why third grade has not been contracted - Hon Peter Foss: That was not the question. What quantities will be available? Hon KIM CHANCE: Okay. The final quantity of third grade that will be available is, of course, entirely dependent on the final quantity of first and second grade that is available. To try to give the member a figure off the top of my head would be extremely difficult, because when I have sought that advice from the Forest Products Commission, I have been advised that those numbers are variable; in other words, there is no set ratio of third grade to the combined numbers of first and second grade, because it depends on what part of the forest people are drawing. Hon Peter Foss: That is why I asked the question, because we cannot draw the conclusion that from 140 000 cubic metres there will be X amount of grade 3 . Therefore, we really need to know what the minister thinks it will be. Hon KIM CHANCE: It is highly variable. I will try to answer the question, but members should be aware that this is my view, and it involves a scientific answer. However, my view is that a minimum number, based on 140 000 cubic metres of grade 1 and 2, would probably be about 60 000 cubic metres of grade 3, with possibly some other timber that had not been regarded as millable being millable; and that is building on the work that was done during the jarrah utilisation trials. I am happy to say that that report is now available, should members want a copy of it. Hon Peter Foss: Yes, I would be interested. Hon KIM CHANCE: They were the Michael Buckton trials. That is probably as good as I can do with that part of the question. (2) The contracts for Nannup and Greenbushes were individual, separate and unrelated contracts to different companies that were awarded over the period of the last two Governments. The Greenbushes agreement, which is the blue leaf agreement, was finalised by the coalition Government, and the Nannup agreement, which is similar in structure, was finalised under the current Government. They were concluded on the basis that the proponents had come to government with a proposition that met the requirements of the Government of that day - I will go into that in a moment because there is a slight difference between the two - as to a means of delivering the Government’s policy in a very clear way, and involved in both instances a clear cut down in the volume of timber that would be used. The differences between the two are that the blue leaf proponents - that is, the Greenbushes proponents - got a slightly better deal than everyone else will get, because that agreement was concluded under the coalition Government, which was working on the Regional Forest Agreement figures, and it applied its numeric factors based on a higher number. The figures are 23 000 cubic metres and 20 000 cubic metres - in both cases, jarrah grades 1 and 2. (3)-(4) If I understand question (3) correctly, it is what volume would be available in reserve boundaries and step downs. This is highly speculative, because the step-down figure will be variable. The PRESIDENT: Question times goes on, and we have had only three questions. If the leader cannot answer the question - Hon KIM CHANCE: I am sorry. I need to explain why it is a difficult question to answer. Step-down volumes are variable, depending on when the companies step down. Obviously, the figure will be larger the earlier the step down occurs. I have used a round figure of 20 000 cubic metres. Reserve boundaries are even more speculative and may be anywhere between 5 000 and 25 000 cubic metres. In the moratorium areas, more accurately it will be about 9 000 cubic metres. (5) There will be an opportunity to access those areas prior to 2004, but again that is speculative because they cannot really be accessed until we have certainty, or a great deal more certainty, on the forest management plan results. Whatever we do cannot compromise the integrity of the forest management plan. Hon Peter Foss: It is lawful now, is it not? Hon KIM CHANCE: Yes, it is a matter of law.
Hon KIM CHANCE replied: (1) Contracts are not normally entered into for third-grade jarrah. Generally speaking, contracts are - Hon Peter Foss: I was talking not about contracts but about the indicative quantities. Hon KIM CHANCE: I see. I will finish that answer, because not everyone would be aware of that. Contracts are generally entered into on the basis of first and second-grade jarrah only. However, Hon Peter Foss’s question is reasonable, because in the request for proposals document, the Government invited proponents to tender on the basis of first and second-grade bids or - we indicated a preference for this - whole-bole volume. Once whole-bole volume was included, it was necessary, in order to keep an apples-with-apples comparison, to leave open the option to proponents to also indicate in their bid what amount of third grade they would like to have; and some did, on the basis of the figures that I saw. To then create an apples-with-apples comparison, we took everything back to a first and second-grade comparison, simply because we all understand what those numbers mean. However, that standardisation of the issue, although important for our understanding of the process, had virtually no impact on the way in which the propositions were analysed, since they were analysed on the basis of their merit as a whole. Therefore, the answer to why third grade has not been contracted - Hon Peter Foss: That was not the question. What quantities will be available? Hon KIM CHANCE: Okay. The final quantity of third grade that will be available is, of course, entirely dependent on the final quantity of first and second grade that is available. To try to give the member a figure off the top of my head would be extremely difficult, because when I have sought that advice from the Forest Products Commission, I have been advised that those numbers are variable; in other words, there is no set ratio of third grade to the combined numbers of first and second grade, because it depends on what part of the forest people are drawing. Hon Peter Foss: That is why I asked the question, because we cannot draw the conclusion that from 140 000 cubic metres there will be X amount of grade 3 . Therefore, we really need to know what the minister thinks it will be. Hon KIM CHANCE: It is highly variable. I will try to answer the question, but members should be aware that this is my view, and it involves a scientific answer. However, my view is that a minimum number, based on 140 000 cubic metres of grade 1 and 2, would probably be about 60 000 cubic metres of grade 3, with possibly some other timber that had not been regarded as millable being millable; and that is building on the work that was done during the jarrah utilisation trials. I am happy to say that that report is now available, should members want a copy of it. Hon Peter Foss: Yes, I would be interested. Hon KIM CHANCE: They were the Michael Buckton trials. That is probably as good as I can do with that part of the question. (2) The contracts for Nannup and Greenbushes were individual, separate and unrelated contracts to different companies that were awarded over the period of the last two Governments. The Greenbushes agreement, which is the blue leaf agreement, was finalised by the coalition Government, and the Nannup agreement, which is similar in structure, was finalised under the current Government. They were concluded on the basis that the proponents had come to government with a proposition that met the requirements of the Government of that day - I will go into that in a moment because there is a slight difference between the two - as to a means of delivering the Government’s policy in a very clear way, and involved in both instances a clear cut down in the volume of timber that would be used. The differences between the two are that the blue leaf proponents - that is, the Greenbushes proponents - got a slightly better deal than everyone else will get, because that agreement was concluded under the coalition Government, which was working on the Regional Forest Agreement figures, and it applied its numeric factors based on a higher number. The figures are 23 000 cubic metres and 20 000 cubic metres - in both cases, jarrah grades 1 and 2. (3)-(4) If I understand question (3) correctly, it is what volume would be available in reserve boundaries and step downs. This is highly speculative, because the step-down figure will be variable. The PRESIDENT: Question times goes on, and we have had only three questions. If the leader cannot answer the question - Hon KIM CHANCE: I am sorry. I need to explain why it is a difficult question to answer. Step-down volumes are variable, depending on when the companies step down. Obviously, the figure will be larger the earlier the step down occurs. I have used a round figure of 20 000 cubic metres. Reserve boundaries are even more speculative and may be anywhere between 5 000 and 25 000 cubic metres. In the moratorium areas, more accurately it will be about 9 000 cubic metres. (5) There will be an opportunity to access those areas prior to 2004, but again that is speculative because they cannot really be accessed until we have certainty, or a great deal more certainty, on the forest management plan results. Whatever we do cannot compromise the integrity of the forest management plan. Hon Peter Foss: It is lawful now, is it not? Hon KIM CHANCE: Yes, it is a matter of law.
(1) Contracts are not normally entered into for third-grade jarrah. Generally speaking, contracts are - Hon Peter Foss: I was talking not about contracts but about the indicative quantities. Hon KIM CHANCE: I see. I will finish that answer, because not everyone would be aware of that. Contracts are generally entered into on the basis of first and second-grade jarrah only. However, Hon Peter Foss’s question is reasonable, because in the request for proposals document, the Government invited proponents to tender on the basis of first and second-grade bids or - we indicated a preference for this - whole-bole volume. Once whole-bole volume was included, it was necessary, in order to keep an apples-with-apples comparison, to leave open the option to proponents to also indicate in their bid what amount of third grade they would like to have; and some did, on the basis of the figures that I saw. To then create an apples-with-apples comparison, we took everything back to a first and second-grade comparison, simply because we all understand what those numbers mean. However, that standardisation of the issue, although important for our understanding of the process, had virtually no impact on the way in which the propositions were analysed, since they were analysed on the basis of their merit as a whole. Therefore, the answer to why third grade has not been contracted - Hon Peter Foss: That was not the question. What quantities will be available? Hon KIM CHANCE: Okay. The final quantity of third grade that will be available is, of course, entirely dependent on the final quantity of first and second grade that is available. To try to give the member a figure off the top of my head would be extremely difficult, because when I have sought that advice from the Forest Products Commission, I have been advised that those numbers are variable; in other words, there is no set ratio of third grade to the combined numbers of first and second grade, because it depends on what part of the forest people are drawing. Hon Peter Foss: That is why I asked the question, because we cannot draw the conclusion that from 140 000 cubic metres there will be X amount of grade 3 . Therefore, we really need to know what the minister thinks it will be. Hon KIM CHANCE: It is highly variable. I will try to answer the question, but members should be aware that this is my view, and it involves a scientific answer. However, my view is that a minimum number, based on 140 000 cubic metres of grade 1 and 2, would probably be about 60 000 cubic metres of grade 3, with possibly some other timber that had not been regarded as millable being millable; and that is building on the work that was done during the jarrah utilisation trials. I am happy to say that that report is now available, should members want a copy of it. Hon Peter Foss: Yes, I would be interested. Hon KIM CHANCE: They were the Michael Buckton trials. That is probably as good as I can do with that part of the question. (2) The contracts for Nannup and Greenbushes were individual, separate and unrelated contracts to different companies that were awarded over the period of the last two Governments. The Greenbushes agreement, which is the blue leaf agreement, was finalised by the coalition Government, and the Nannup agreement, which is similar in structure, was finalised under the current Government. They were concluded on the basis that the proponents had come to government with a proposition that met the requirements of the Government of that day - I will go into that in a moment because there is a slight difference between the two - as to a means of delivering the Government’s policy in a very clear way, and involved in both instances a clear cut down in the volume of timber that would be used. The differences between the two are that the blue leaf proponents - that is, the Greenbushes proponents - got a slightly better deal than everyone else will get, because that agreement was concluded under the coalition Government, which was working on the Regional Forest Agreement figures, and it applied its numeric factors based on a higher number. The figures are 23 000 cubic metres and 20 000 cubic metres - in both cases, jarrah grades 1 and 2. (3)-(4) If I understand question (3) correctly, it is what volume would be available in reserve boundaries and step downs. This is highly speculative, because the step-down figure will be variable. The PRESIDENT: Question times goes on, and we have had only three questions. If the leader cannot answer the question - Hon KIM CHANCE: I am sorry. I need to explain why it is a difficult question to answer. Step-down volumes are variable, depending on when the companies step down. Obviously, the figure will be larger the earlier the step down occurs. I have used a round figure of 20 000 cubic metres. Reserve boundaries are even more speculative and may be anywhere between 5 000 and 25 000 cubic metres. In the moratorium areas, more accurately it will be about 9 000 cubic metres. (5) There will be an opportunity to access those areas prior to 2004, but again that is speculative because they cannot really be accessed until we have certainty, or a great deal more certainty, on the forest management plan results. Whatever we do cannot compromise the integrity of the forest management plan. Hon Peter Foss: It is lawful now, is it not? Hon KIM CHANCE: Yes, it is a matter of law.
Hon Peter Foss: I was talking not about contracts but about the indicative quantities. Hon KIM CHANCE: I see. I will finish that answer, because not everyone would be aware of that. Contracts are generally entered into on the basis of first and second-grade jarrah only. However, Hon Peter Foss’s question is reasonable, because in the request for proposals document, the Government invited proponents to tender on the basis of first and second-grade bids or - we indicated a preference for this - whole-bole volume. Once whole-bole volume was included, it was necessary, in order to keep an apples-with-apples comparison, to leave open the option to proponents to also indicate in their bid what amount of third grade they would like to have; and some did, on the basis of the figures that I saw. To then create an apples-with-apples comparison, we took everything back to a first and second-grade comparison, simply because we all understand what those numbers mean. However, that standardisation of the issue, although important for our understanding of the process, had virtually no impact on the way in which the propositions were analysed, since they were analysed on the basis of their merit as a whole. Therefore, the answer to why third grade has not been contracted - Hon Peter Foss: That was not the question. What quantities will be available? Hon KIM CHANCE: Okay. The final quantity of third grade that will be available is, of course, entirely dependent on the final quantity of first and second grade that is available. To try to give the member a figure off the top of my head would be extremely difficult, because when I have sought that advice from the Forest Products Commission, I have been advised that those numbers are variable; in other words, there is no set ratio of third grade to the combined numbers of first and second grade, because it depends on what part of the forest people are drawing. Hon Peter Foss: That is why I asked the question, because we cannot draw the conclusion that from 140 000 cubic metres there will be X amount of grade 3 . Therefore, we really need to know what the minister thinks it will be. Hon KIM CHANCE: It is highly variable. I will try to answer the question, but members should be aware that this is my view, and it involves a scientific answer. However, my view is that a minimum number, based on 140 000 cubic metres of grade 1 and 2, would probably be about 60 000 cubic metres of grade 3, with possibly some other timber that had not been regarded as millable being millable; and that is building on the work that was done during the jarrah utilisation trials. I am happy to say that that report is now available, should members want a copy of it. Hon Peter Foss: Yes, I would be interested. Hon KIM CHANCE: They were the Michael Buckton trials. That is probably as good as I can do with that part of the question. (2) The contracts for Nannup and Greenbushes were individual, separate and unrelated contracts to different companies that were awarded over the period of the last two Governments. The Greenbushes agreement, which is the blue leaf agreement, was finalised by the coalition Government, and the Nannup agreement, which is similar in structure, was finalised under the current Government. They were concluded on the basis that the proponents had come to government with a proposition that met the requirements of the Government of that day - I will go into that in a moment because there is a slight difference between the two - as to a means of delivering the Government’s policy in a very clear way, and involved in both instances a clear cut down in the volume of timber that would be used. The differences between the two are that the blue leaf proponents - that is, the Greenbushes proponents - got a slightly better deal than everyone else will get, because that agreement was concluded under the coalition Government, which was working on the Regional Forest Agreement figures, and it applied its numeric factors based on a higher number. The figures are 23 000 cubic metres and 20 000 cubic metres - in both cases, jarrah grades 1 and 2. (3)-(4) If I understand question (3) correctly, it is what volume would be available in reserve boundaries and step downs. This is highly speculative, because the step-down figure will be variable. The PRESIDENT: Question times goes on, and we have had only three questions. If the leader cannot answer the question - Hon KIM CHANCE: I am sorry. I need to explain why it is a difficult question to answer. Step-down volumes are variable, depending on when the companies step down. Obviously, the figure will be larger the earlier the step down occurs. I have used a round figure of 20 000 cubic metres. Reserve boundaries are even more speculative and may be anywhere between 5 000 and 25 000 cubic metres. In the moratorium areas, more accurately it will be about 9 000 cubic metres. (5) There will be an opportunity to access those areas prior to 2004, but again that is speculative because they cannot really be accessed until we have certainty, or a great deal more certainty, on the forest management plan results. Whatever we do cannot compromise the integrity of the forest management plan. Hon Peter Foss: It is lawful now, is it not? Hon KIM CHANCE: Yes, it is a matter of law.
Hon KIM CHANCE: I see. I will finish that answer, because not everyone would be aware of that. Contracts are generally entered into on the basis of first and second-grade jarrah only. However, Hon Peter Foss’s question is reasonable, because in the request for proposals document, the Government invited proponents to tender on the basis of first and second-grade bids or - we indicated a preference for this - whole-bole volume. Once whole-bole volume was included, it was necessary, in order to keep an apples-with-apples comparison, to leave open the option to proponents to also indicate in their bid what amount of third grade they would like to have; and some did, on the basis of the figures that I saw. To then create an apples-with-apples comparison, we took everything back to a first and second-grade comparison, simply because we all understand what those numbers mean. However, that standardisation of the issue, although important for our understanding of the process, had virtually no impact on the way in which the propositions were analysed, since they were analysed on the basis of their merit as a whole. Therefore, the answer to why third grade has not been contracted - Hon Peter Foss: That was not the question. What quantities will be available? Hon KIM CHANCE: Okay. The final quantity of third grade that will be available is, of course, entirely dependent on the final quantity of first and second grade that is available. To try to give the member a figure off the top of my head would be extremely difficult, because when I have sought that advice from the Forest Products Commission, I have been advised that those numbers are variable; in other words, there is no set ratio of third grade to the combined numbers of first and second grade, because it depends on what part of the forest people are drawing. Hon Peter Foss: That is why I asked the question, because we cannot draw the conclusion that from 140 000 cubic metres there will be X amount of grade 3 . Therefore, we really need to know what the minister thinks it will be. Hon KIM CHANCE: It is highly variable. I will try to answer the question, but members should be aware that this is my view, and it involves a scientific answer. However, my view is that a minimum number, based on 140 000 cubic metres of grade 1 and 2, would probably be about 60 000 cubic metres of grade 3, with possibly some other timber that had not been regarded as millable being millable; and that is building on the work that was done during the jarrah utilisation trials. I am happy to say that that report is now available, should members want a copy of it. Hon Peter Foss: Yes, I would be interested. Hon KIM CHANCE: They were the Michael Buckton trials. That is probably as good as I can do with that part of the question. (2) The contracts for Nannup and Greenbushes were individual, separate and unrelated contracts to different companies that were awarded over the period of the last two Governments. The Greenbushes agreement, which is the blue leaf agreement, was finalised by the coalition Government, and the Nannup agreement, which is similar in structure, was finalised under the current Government. They were concluded on the basis that the proponents had come to government with a proposition that met the requirements of the Government of that day - I will go into that in a moment because there is a slight difference between the two - as to a means of delivering the Government’s policy in a very clear way, and involved in both instances a clear cut down in the volume of timber that would be used. The differences between the two are that the blue leaf proponents - that is, the Greenbushes proponents - got a slightly better deal than everyone else will get, because that agreement was concluded under the coalition Government, which was working on the Regional Forest Agreement figures, and it applied its numeric factors based on a higher number. The figures are 23 000 cubic metres and 20 000 cubic metres - in both cases, jarrah grades 1 and 2. (3)-(4) If I understand question (3) correctly, it is what volume would be available in reserve boundaries and step downs. This is highly speculative, because the step-down figure will be variable. The PRESIDENT: Question times goes on, and we have had only three questions. If the leader cannot answer the question - Hon KIM CHANCE: I am sorry. I need to explain why it is a difficult question to answer. Step-down volumes are variable, depending on when the companies step down. Obviously, the figure will be larger the earlier the step down occurs. I have used a round figure of 20 000 cubic metres. Reserve boundaries are even more speculative and may be anywhere between 5 000 and 25 000 cubic metres. In the moratorium areas, more accurately it will be about 9 000 cubic metres. (5) There will be an opportunity to access those areas prior to 2004, but again that is speculative because they cannot really be accessed until we have certainty, or a great deal more certainty, on the forest management plan results. Whatever we do cannot compromise the integrity of the forest management plan. Hon Peter Foss: It is lawful now, is it not? Hon KIM CHANCE: Yes, it is a matter of law.
Hon Peter Foss: That was not the question. What quantities will be available? Hon KIM CHANCE: Okay. The final quantity of third grade that will be available is, of course, entirely dependent on the final quantity of first and second grade that is available. To try to give the member a figure off the top of my head would be extremely difficult, because when I have sought that advice from the Forest Products Commission, I have been advised that those numbers are variable; in other words, there is no set ratio of third grade to the combined numbers of first and second grade, because it depends on what part of the forest people are drawing. Hon Peter Foss: That is why I asked the question, because we cannot draw the conclusion that from 140 000 cubic metres there will be X amount of grade 3 . Therefore, we really need to know what the minister thinks it will be. Hon KIM CHANCE: It is highly variable. I will try to answer the question, but members should be aware that this is my view, and it involves a scientific answer. However, my view is that a minimum number, based on 140 000 cubic metres of grade 1 and 2, would probably be about 60 000 cubic metres of grade 3, with possibly some other timber that had not been regarded as millable being millable; and that is building on the work that was done during the jarrah utilisation trials. I am happy to say that that report is now available, should members want a copy of it. Hon Peter Foss: Yes, I would be interested. Hon KIM CHANCE: They were the Michael Buckton trials. That is probably as good as I can do with that part of the question. (2) The contracts for Nannup and Greenbushes were individual, separate and unrelated contracts to different companies that were awarded over the period of the last two Governments. The Greenbushes agreement, which is the blue leaf agreement, was finalised by the coalition Government, and the Nannup agreement, which is similar in structure, was finalised under the current Government. They were concluded on the basis that the proponents had come to government with a proposition that met the requirements of the Government of that day - I will go into that in a moment because there is a slight difference between the two - as to a means of delivering the Government’s policy in a very clear way, and involved in both instances a clear cut down in the volume of timber that would be used. The differences between the two are that the blue leaf proponents - that is, the Greenbushes proponents - got a slightly better deal than everyone else will get, because that agreement was concluded under the coalition Government, which was working on the Regional Forest Agreement figures, and it applied its numeric factors based on a higher number. The figures are 23 000 cubic metres and 20 000 cubic metres - in both cases, jarrah grades 1 and 2. (3)-(4) If I understand question (3) correctly, it is what volume would be available in reserve boundaries and step downs. This is highly speculative, because the step-down figure will be variable. The PRESIDENT: Question times goes on, and we have had only three questions. If the leader cannot answer the question - Hon KIM CHANCE: I am sorry. I need to explain why it is a difficult question to answer. Step-down volumes are variable, depending on when the companies step down. Obviously, the figure will be larger the earlier the step down occurs. I have used a round figure of 20 000 cubic metres. Reserve boundaries are even more speculative and may be anywhere between 5 000 and 25 000 cubic metres. In the moratorium areas, more accurately it will be about 9 000 cubic metres. (5) There will be an opportunity to access those areas prior to 2004, but again that is speculative because they cannot really be accessed until we have certainty, or a great deal more certainty, on the forest management plan results. Whatever we do cannot compromise the integrity of the forest management plan. Hon Peter Foss: It is lawful now, is it not? Hon KIM CHANCE: Yes, it is a matter of law.
Hon KIM CHANCE: Okay. The final quantity of third grade that will be available is, of course, entirely dependent on the final quantity of first and second grade that is available. To try to give the member a figure off the top of my head would be extremely difficult, because when I have sought that advice from the Forest Products Commission, I have been advised that those numbers are variable; in other words, there is no set ratio of third grade to the combined numbers of first and second grade, because it depends on what part of the forest people are drawing. Hon Peter Foss: That is why I asked the question, because we cannot draw the conclusion that from 140 000 cubic metres there will be X amount of grade 3 . Therefore, we really need to know what the minister thinks it will be. Hon KIM CHANCE: It is highly variable. I will try to answer the question, but members should be aware that this is my view, and it involves a scientific answer. However, my view is that a minimum number, based on 140 000 cubic metres of grade 1 and 2, would probably be about 60 000 cubic metres of grade 3, with possibly some other timber that had not been regarded as millable being millable; and that is building on the work that was done during the jarrah utilisation trials. I am happy to say that that report is now available, should members want a copy of it. Hon Peter Foss: Yes, I would be interested. Hon KIM CHANCE: They were the Michael Buckton trials. That is probably as good as I can do with that part of the question. (2) The contracts for Nannup and Greenbushes were individual, separate and unrelated contracts to different companies that were awarded over the period of the last two Governments. The Greenbushes agreement, which is the blue leaf agreement, was finalised by the coalition Government, and the Nannup agreement, which is similar in structure, was finalised under the current Government. They were concluded on the basis that the proponents had come to government with a proposition that met the requirements of the Government of that day - I will go into that in a moment because there is a slight difference between the two - as to a means of delivering the Government’s policy in a very clear way, and involved in both instances a clear cut down in the volume of timber that would be used. The differences between the two are that the blue leaf proponents - that is, the Greenbushes proponents - got a slightly better deal than everyone else will get, because that agreement was concluded under the coalition Government, which was working on the Regional Forest Agreement figures, and it applied its numeric factors based on a higher number. The figures are 23 000 cubic metres and 20 000 cubic metres - in both cases, jarrah grades 1 and 2. (3)-(4) If I understand question (3) correctly, it is what volume would be available in reserve boundaries and step downs. This is highly speculative, because the step-down figure will be variable. The PRESIDENT: Question times goes on, and we have had only three questions. If the leader cannot answer the question - Hon KIM CHANCE: I am sorry. I need to explain why it is a difficult question to answer. Step-down volumes are variable, depending on when the companies step down. Obviously, the figure will be larger the earlier the step down occurs. I have used a round figure of 20 000 cubic metres. Reserve boundaries are even more speculative and may be anywhere between 5 000 and 25 000 cubic metres. In the moratorium areas, more accurately it will be about 9 000 cubic metres. (5) There will be an opportunity to access those areas prior to 2004, but again that is speculative because they cannot really be accessed until we have certainty, or a great deal more certainty, on the forest management plan results. Whatever we do cannot compromise the integrity of the forest management plan. Hon Peter Foss: It is lawful now, is it not? Hon KIM CHANCE: Yes, it is a matter of law.
Hon Peter Foss: That is why I asked the question, because we cannot draw the conclusion that from 140 000 cubic metres there will be X amount of grade 3 . Therefore, we really need to know what the minister thinks it will be. Hon KIM CHANCE: It is highly variable. I will try to answer the question, but members should be aware that this is my view, and it involves a scientific answer. However, my view is that a minimum number, based on 140 000 cubic metres of grade 1 and 2, would probably be about 60 000 cubic metres of grade 3, with possibly some other timber that had not been regarded as millable being millable; and that is building on the work that was done during the jarrah utilisation trials. I am happy to say that that report is now available, should members want a copy of it. Hon Peter Foss: Yes, I would be interested. Hon KIM CHANCE: They were the Michael Buckton trials. That is probably as good as I can do with that part of the question. (2) The contracts for Nannup and Greenbushes were individual, separate and unrelated contracts to different companies that were awarded over the period of the last two Governments. The Greenbushes agreement, which is the blue leaf agreement, was finalised by the coalition Government, and the Nannup agreement, which is similar in structure, was finalised under the current Government. They were concluded on the basis that the proponents had come to government with a proposition that met the requirements of the Government of that day - I will go into that in a moment because there is a slight difference between the two - as to a means of delivering the Government’s policy in a very clear way, and involved in both instances a clear cut down in the volume of timber that would be used. The differences between the two are that the blue leaf proponents - that is, the Greenbushes proponents - got a slightly better deal than everyone else will get, because that agreement was concluded under the coalition Government, which was working on the Regional Forest Agreement figures, and it applied its numeric factors based on a higher number. The figures are 23 000 cubic metres and 20 000 cubic metres - in both cases, jarrah grades 1 and 2. (3)-(4) If I understand question (3) correctly, it is what volume would be available in reserve boundaries and step downs. This is highly speculative, because the step-down figure will be variable. The PRESIDENT: Question times goes on, and we have had only three questions. If the leader cannot answer the question - Hon KIM CHANCE: I am sorry. I need to explain why it is a difficult question to answer. Step-down volumes are variable, depending on when the companies step down. Obviously, the figure will be larger the earlier the step down occurs. I have used a round figure of 20 000 cubic metres. Reserve boundaries are even more speculative and may be anywhere between 5 000 and 25 000 cubic metres. In the moratorium areas, more accurately it will be about 9 000 cubic metres. (5) There will be an opportunity to access those areas prior to 2004, but again that is speculative because they cannot really be accessed until we have certainty, or a great deal more certainty, on the forest management plan results. Whatever we do cannot compromise the integrity of the forest management plan. Hon Peter Foss: It is lawful now, is it not? Hon KIM CHANCE: Yes, it is a matter of law.
Hon KIM CHANCE: It is highly variable. I will try to answer the question, but members should be aware that this is my view, and it involves a scientific answer. However, my view is that a minimum number, based on 140 000 cubic metres of grade 1 and 2, would probably be about 60 000 cubic metres of grade 3, with possibly some other timber that had not been regarded as millable being millable; and that is building on the work that was done during the jarrah utilisation trials. I am happy to say that that report is now available, should members want a copy of it. Hon Peter Foss: Yes, I would be interested. Hon KIM CHANCE: They were the Michael Buckton trials. That is probably as good as I can do with that part of the question. (2) The contracts for Nannup and Greenbushes were individual, separate and unrelated contracts to different companies that were awarded over the period of the last two Governments. The Greenbushes agreement, which is the blue leaf agreement, was finalised by the coalition Government, and the Nannup agreement, which is similar in structure, was finalised under the current Government. They were concluded on the basis that the proponents had come to government with a proposition that met the requirements of the Government of that day - I will go into that in a moment because there is a slight difference between the two - as to a means of delivering the Government’s policy in a very clear way, and involved in both instances a clear cut down in the volume of timber that would be used. The differences between the two are that the blue leaf proponents - that is, the Greenbushes proponents - got a slightly better deal than everyone else will get, because that agreement was concluded under the coalition Government, which was working on the Regional Forest Agreement figures, and it applied its numeric factors based on a higher number. The figures are 23 000 cubic metres and 20 000 cubic metres - in both cases, jarrah grades 1 and 2. (3)-(4) If I understand question (3) correctly, it is what volume would be available in reserve boundaries and step downs. This is highly speculative, because the step-down figure will be variable. The PRESIDENT: Question times goes on, and we have had only three questions. If the leader cannot answer the question - Hon KIM CHANCE: I am sorry. I need to explain why it is a difficult question to answer. Step-down volumes are variable, depending on when the companies step down. Obviously, the figure will be larger the earlier the step down occurs. I have used a round figure of 20 000 cubic metres. Reserve boundaries are even more speculative and may be anywhere between 5 000 and 25 000 cubic metres. In the moratorium areas, more accurately it will be about 9 000 cubic metres. (5) There will be an opportunity to access those areas prior to 2004, but again that is speculative because they cannot really be accessed until we have certainty, or a great deal more certainty, on the forest management plan results. Whatever we do cannot compromise the integrity of the forest management plan. Hon Peter Foss: It is lawful now, is it not? Hon KIM CHANCE: Yes, it is a matter of law.
Hon Peter Foss: Yes, I would be interested. Hon KIM CHANCE: They were the Michael Buckton trials. That is probably as good as I can do with that part of the question. (2) The contracts for Nannup and Greenbushes were individual, separate and unrelated contracts to different companies that were awarded over the period of the last two Governments. The Greenbushes agreement, which is the blue leaf agreement, was finalised by the coalition Government, and the Nannup agreement, which is similar in structure, was finalised under the current Government. They were concluded on the basis that the proponents had come to government with a proposition that met the requirements of the Government of that day - I will go into that in a moment because there is a slight difference between the two - as to a means of delivering the Government’s policy in a very clear way, and involved in both instances a clear cut down in the volume of timber that would be used. The differences between the two are that the blue leaf proponents - that is, the Greenbushes proponents - got a slightly better deal than everyone else will get, because that agreement was concluded under the coalition Government, which was working on the Regional Forest Agreement figures, and it applied its numeric factors based on a higher number. The figures are 23 000 cubic metres and 20 000 cubic metres - in both cases, jarrah grades 1 and 2. (3)-(4) If I understand question (3) correctly, it is what volume would be available in reserve boundaries and step downs. This is highly speculative, because the step-down figure will be variable. The PRESIDENT: Question times goes on, and we have had only three questions. If the leader cannot answer the question - Hon KIM CHANCE: I am sorry. I need to explain why it is a difficult question to answer. Step-down volumes are variable, depending on when the companies step down. Obviously, the figure will be larger the earlier the step down occurs. I have used a round figure of 20 000 cubic metres. Reserve boundaries are even more speculative and may be anywhere between 5 000 and 25 000 cubic metres. In the moratorium areas, more accurately it will be about 9 000 cubic metres. (5) There will be an opportunity to access those areas prior to 2004, but again that is speculative because they cannot really be accessed until we have certainty, or a great deal more certainty, on the forest management plan results. Whatever we do cannot compromise the integrity of the forest management plan. Hon Peter Foss: It is lawful now, is it not? Hon KIM CHANCE: Yes, it is a matter of law.
Hon KIM CHANCE: They were the Michael Buckton trials. That is probably as good as I can do with that part of the question. (2) The contracts for Nannup and Greenbushes were individual, separate and unrelated contracts to different companies that were awarded over the period of the last two Governments. The Greenbushes agreement, which is the blue leaf agreement, was finalised by the coalition Government, and the Nannup agreement, which is similar in structure, was finalised under the current Government. They were concluded on the basis that the proponents had come to government with a proposition that met the requirements of the Government of that day - I will go into that in a moment because there is a slight difference between the two - as to a means of delivering the Government’s policy in a very clear way, and involved in both instances a clear cut down in the volume of timber that would be used. The differences between the two are that the blue leaf proponents - that is, the Greenbushes proponents - got a slightly better deal than everyone else will get, because that agreement was concluded under the coalition Government, which was working on the Regional Forest Agreement figures, and it applied its numeric factors based on a higher number. The figures are 23 000 cubic metres and 20 000 cubic metres - in both cases, jarrah grades 1 and 2. (3)-(4) If I understand question (3) correctly, it is what volume would be available in reserve boundaries and step downs. This is highly speculative, because the step-down figure will be variable. The PRESIDENT: Question times goes on, and we have had only three questions. If the leader cannot answer the question - Hon KIM CHANCE: I am sorry. I need to explain why it is a difficult question to answer. Step-down volumes are variable, depending on when the companies step down. Obviously, the figure will be larger the earlier the step down occurs. I have used a round figure of 20 000 cubic metres. Reserve boundaries are even more speculative and may be anywhere between 5 000 and 25 000 cubic metres. In the moratorium areas, more accurately it will be about 9 000 cubic metres. (5) There will be an opportunity to access those areas prior to 2004, but again that is speculative because they cannot really be accessed until we have certainty, or a great deal more certainty, on the forest management plan results. Whatever we do cannot compromise the integrity of the forest management plan. Hon Peter Foss: It is lawful now, is it not? Hon KIM CHANCE: Yes, it is a matter of law.
(2) The contracts for Nannup and Greenbushes were individual, separate and unrelated contracts to different companies that were awarded over the period of the last two Governments. The Greenbushes agreement, which is the blue leaf agreement, was finalised by the coalition Government, and the Nannup agreement, which is similar in structure, was finalised under the current Government. They were concluded on the basis that the proponents had come to government with a proposition that met the requirements of the Government of that day - I will go into that in a moment because there is a slight difference between the two - as to a means of delivering the Government’s policy in a very clear way, and involved in both instances a clear cut down in the volume of timber that would be used. The differences between the two are that the blue leaf proponents - that is, the Greenbushes proponents - got a slightly better deal than everyone else will get, because that agreement was concluded under the coalition Government, which was working on the Regional Forest Agreement figures, and it applied its numeric factors based on a higher number. The figures are 23 000 cubic metres and 20 000 cubic metres - in both cases, jarrah grades 1 and 2. (3)-(4) If I understand question (3) correctly, it is what volume would be available in reserve boundaries and step downs. This is highly speculative, because the step-down figure will be variable. The PRESIDENT: Question times goes on, and we have had only three questions. If the leader cannot answer the question - Hon KIM CHANCE: I am sorry. I need to explain why it is a difficult question to answer. Step-down volumes are variable, depending on when the companies step down. Obviously, the figure will be larger the earlier the step down occurs. I have used a round figure of 20 000 cubic metres. Reserve boundaries are even more speculative and may be anywhere between 5 000 and 25 000 cubic metres. In the moratorium areas, more accurately it will be about 9 000 cubic metres. (5) There will be an opportunity to access those areas prior to 2004, but again that is speculative because they cannot really be accessed until we have certainty, or a great deal more certainty, on the forest management plan results. Whatever we do cannot compromise the integrity of the forest management plan. Hon Peter Foss: It is lawful now, is it not? Hon KIM CHANCE: Yes, it is a matter of law.
The PRESIDENT: Question times goes on, and we have had only three questions. If the leader cannot answer the question - Hon KIM CHANCE: I am sorry. I need to explain why it is a difficult question to answer. Step-down volumes are variable, depending on when the companies step down. Obviously, the figure will be larger the earlier the step down occurs. I have used a round figure of 20 000 cubic metres. Reserve boundaries are even more speculative and may be anywhere between 5 000 and 25 000 cubic metres. In the moratorium areas, more accurately it will be about 9 000 cubic metres. (5) There will be an opportunity to access those areas prior to 2004, but again that is speculative because they cannot really be accessed until we have certainty, or a great deal more certainty, on the forest management plan results. Whatever we do cannot compromise the integrity of the forest management plan. Hon Peter Foss: It is lawful now, is it not? Hon KIM CHANCE: Yes, it is a matter of law.
Hon KIM CHANCE: I am sorry. I need to explain why it is a difficult question to answer. Step-down volumes are variable, depending on when the companies step down. Obviously, the figure will be larger the earlier the step down occurs. I have used a round figure of 20 000 cubic metres. Reserve boundaries are even more speculative and may be anywhere between 5 000 and 25 000 cubic metres. In the moratorium areas, more accurately it will be about 9 000 cubic metres. (5) There will be an opportunity to access those areas prior to 2004, but again that is speculative because they cannot really be accessed until we have certainty, or a great deal more certainty, on the forest management plan results. Whatever we do cannot compromise the integrity of the forest management plan. Hon Peter Foss: It is lawful now, is it not? Hon KIM CHANCE: Yes, it is a matter of law.
(5) There will be an opportunity to access those areas prior to 2004, but again that is speculative because they cannot really be accessed until we have certainty, or a great deal more certainty, on the forest management plan results. Whatever we do cannot compromise the integrity of the forest management plan. Hon Peter Foss: It is lawful now, is it not? Hon KIM CHANCE: Yes, it is a matter of law.
Hon Peter Foss: It is lawful now, is it not? Hon KIM CHANCE: Yes, it is a matter of law.
Hon KIM CHANCE: Yes, it is a matter of law.
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