❓ WA Treasurer Porter avoids directly answering Wyatt's questions about the proposed future fund, particularly regarding Treasury's support, investment strategy, and reconciliation of windfall revenue claims. The exchange is marked by interruptions and political point-scoring.
AnsweredQoN 63Legislative Assembly
QuestionView source ↗
FUTURE FUND
63. Mr B.S. WYATT to the Treasurer:
I refer to the Premier's proposed future fund and his
comments that Peter Costello set up a future fund and at the time there was
still net debt of the commonwealth government. Given that the federal Treasurer
established a future fund to specifically fund unfunded superannuation
liabilities after a period of reducing net debt in the commonwealth general government
sector —
(1) Did the Department of Treasury support the establishment
of a future fund at this time?
(2) Will the
capital of the proposed WA future fund be invested or just the accrued rate of
return; and, what will be that expected rate of return?
(3) Given that
the Premier said that windfall revenue will be allocated to the future fund,
how does this reconcile with the statement to the house on 15 March 2011 that
due to the Commonwealth Grants Commission process there are no windfalls?
63. Mr B.S. WYATT to the Treasurer:
I refer to the Premier's proposed future fund and his
comments that Peter Costello set up a future fund and at the time there was
still net debt of the commonwealth government. Given that the federal Treasurer
established a future fund to specifically fund unfunded superannuation
liabilities after a period of reducing net debt in the commonwealth general government
sector —
(1) Did the Department of Treasury support the establishment
of a future fund at this time?
(2) Will the
capital of the proposed WA future fund be invested or just the accrued rate of
return; and, what will be that expected rate of return?
(3) Given that
the Premier said that windfall revenue will be allocated to the future fund,
how does this reconcile with the statement to the house on 15 March 2011 that
due to the Commonwealth Grants Commission process there are no windfalls?
AnswerView source ↗
I thank the member for his question.
(1)–(3)
I think the point generally about future funds that the Premier was making was
in response to the comments made by the Leader of the Opposition that we should
never start a future fund while we have debt. I think that terminology —
Mr B.S. Wyatt : For
a start, the Premier said it on the radio.
Mr M. McGowan :
Just answer the question asked.
Mr
C.C. PORTER : If members stop interrupting, I will give it my best effort.
The analogy drawn by the Leader of
the Opposition was that people in a household situation would never save money
while they had a credit card bill. That struck me as a strange analogy. The
situation is that a family with a normal household budget might find themselves
in a situation in which they have a mortgage at a young time in their lives and
are also determined to save for their children's future education or
have a term savings deposit. The idea and the point that the Premier was making
—
Mr
B.S. Wyatt : Answer my question. What is the expected rate of return?
Mr C.C. PORTER :
Given that the member's question was in three stages, I will answer the
question in three stages starting with, not unsurprisingly, stage one. Stage
one was about the Premier's comments about this situation and whether
it had previously happened, whether it was appropriate or whether it factually
ever happened —
Several members interjected.
The SPEAKER :
Order, members!
Mr B.S. Wyatt :
Stage 1 was whether —
The SPEAKER :
Order, members! I call the member for Victoria Park to order for the first time
today. Members to my left, if you want an answer to a question, I simply ask
you to stop interjecting.
Mr C.C. PORTER :
The first point is that Labor's position is that a government should
never start a future fund in a circumstance in which a state government carries
any debt. It drew on a household analogy to support that proposition, which is
ridiculous. Households with debt save money all the time. What this government
is going to do through the future fund is provide for some of the revenue that
is being garnered during a time of a surge in the resources sector and have
that revenue put aside. That is the point of the future fund. What is interesting
about the future fund is that we can be absolutely certain about a couple of
things. We can be absolutely certain that there will be a future fund under
this government. The original position of the Labor opposition was that it
would support a future fund. If I recall correctly, the Leader of the
Opposition's position is to support a future fund.
Mr
M. McGowan : I said we would not —
Point of Order
Mr
B.S. WYATT : I asked three very specific questions. At the moment the
Treasurer has not endeavoured to answer any of them. I ask the Speaker to draw
his attention back to the questions I put to him.
The
SPEAKER : The point is well made, member for Victoria Park.
Questions without Notice Resumed
Mr
C.C. PORTER : The Leader of the Opposition has taken the brave leadership
position that he will not oppose a future fund. I am sure that the people of
Western Australia will be very interested to know whether the opposition actually
supports it.
The member's second question
was: does Treasury support the future fund? Treasury will be supporting the
future fund.
Mr
E.S. Ripper interjected.
Mr
C.C. PORTER : This government, former Leader of the Opposition, actually
drives policy and does not let departments drive policy. The reason that people
elect a government and not civil servants is that the government is supposed to
lead. Leading means coming up with an idea, costing the idea, designing the
idea and producing the idea. Leadership is not saying that we will not oppose
the idea but have no position on it. Does Treasury support the future fund?
Treasury will support it. In fact, so far in the months of engagement I have
had with Treasury on the design of this fund I have found it to be very
supportive. Every time I ask Treasury for a briefing, the briefing is
incredibly detailed and supportive of the government's position.
That brings me to the third
question, which was, in essence: what are the details of the future fund? The
details of the future fund will be released at —
Mr
B.S. Wyatt : That was not the question at all. I asked about windfall
revenue.
Mr
C.C. PORTER : The member wanted details of the future fund. What detail
would the member like to know about the future fund?
Mr
B.S. Wyatt : Are you planning on using the capital? What is it?
Mr
C.C. PORTER : The member will have to wait until budget time for the detail.
Mr
W.J. Johnston : You don't know. You haven't made up your
mind yet.
Mr
C.C. PORTER : Of course we know. We know exactly. Do members know what I
think is happening here? I think the opposition has future fund envy! That is
what is happening. In fact, as the Premier gave his excellent Premier's
Statement I saw the look of abject disappointment on the Leader of the Opposition's
face when he grabbed his red pen and but a big line through pages 2 and 3 of
his speech—the future fund pages. I knew exactly what was going on—future
fund envy! What we will be delivering in this budget and what will be supported
wholeheartedly by the people of Western Australia is a future fund, and that
will have a great deal of detail attached to it when it is released at budget
time.
Several opposition members
interjected.
The
SPEAKER : Member for Willagee, I formally call you to order for the first
time today. Member for Warnbro, you are now on three formal calls. Member for
West Swan, you are on two formal calls. Treasurer, I would like this question
to conclude so that I can give someone else the call. I am going to say to
members on my left that I will definitely give the member for Victoria Park a
supplementary question, which I am sure he will seek. Sometimes the questions
go on too long, and the answers in particular.
Mr
C.C. PORTER : The Speaker is quite right. The detail of the future fund, the
source of the revenue, the quantum and the how and what will be invested and
whether it is to be invested in the future fund, are details that we have been
working on for some time, and they will be released at budget time. I look
forward to releasing them because this will be great for Western Australians
and their children.
(1)–(3)
I think the point generally about future funds that the Premier was making was
in response to the comments made by the Leader of the Opposition that we should
never start a future fund while we have debt. I think that terminology —
Mr B.S. Wyatt : For
a start, the Premier said it on the radio.
Mr M. McGowan :
Just answer the question asked.
Mr
C.C. PORTER : If members stop interrupting, I will give it my best effort.
The analogy drawn by the Leader of
the Opposition was that people in a household situation would never save money
while they had a credit card bill. That struck me as a strange analogy. The
situation is that a family with a normal household budget might find themselves
in a situation in which they have a mortgage at a young time in their lives and
are also determined to save for their children's future education or
have a term savings deposit. The idea and the point that the Premier was making
—
Mr
B.S. Wyatt : Answer my question. What is the expected rate of return?
Mr C.C. PORTER :
Given that the member's question was in three stages, I will answer the
question in three stages starting with, not unsurprisingly, stage one. Stage
one was about the Premier's comments about this situation and whether
it had previously happened, whether it was appropriate or whether it factually
ever happened —
Several members interjected.
The SPEAKER :
Order, members!
Mr B.S. Wyatt :
Stage 1 was whether —
The SPEAKER :
Order, members! I call the member for Victoria Park to order for the first time
today. Members to my left, if you want an answer to a question, I simply ask
you to stop interjecting.
Mr C.C. PORTER :
The first point is that Labor's position is that a government should
never start a future fund in a circumstance in which a state government carries
any debt. It drew on a household analogy to support that proposition, which is
ridiculous. Households with debt save money all the time. What this government
is going to do through the future fund is provide for some of the revenue that
is being garnered during a time of a surge in the resources sector and have
that revenue put aside. That is the point of the future fund. What is interesting
about the future fund is that we can be absolutely certain about a couple of
things. We can be absolutely certain that there will be a future fund under
this government. The original position of the Labor opposition was that it
would support a future fund. If I recall correctly, the Leader of the
Opposition's position is to support a future fund.
Mr
M. McGowan : I said we would not —
Point of Order
Mr
B.S. WYATT : I asked three very specific questions. At the moment the
Treasurer has not endeavoured to answer any of them. I ask the Speaker to draw
his attention back to the questions I put to him.
The
SPEAKER : The point is well made, member for Victoria Park.
Questions without Notice Resumed
Mr
C.C. PORTER : The Leader of the Opposition has taken the brave leadership
position that he will not oppose a future fund. I am sure that the people of
Western Australia will be very interested to know whether the opposition actually
supports it.
The member's second question
was: does Treasury support the future fund? Treasury will be supporting the
future fund.
Mr
E.S. Ripper interjected.
Mr
C.C. PORTER : This government, former Leader of the Opposition, actually
drives policy and does not let departments drive policy. The reason that people
elect a government and not civil servants is that the government is supposed to
lead. Leading means coming up with an idea, costing the idea, designing the
idea and producing the idea. Leadership is not saying that we will not oppose
the idea but have no position on it. Does Treasury support the future fund?
Treasury will support it. In fact, so far in the months of engagement I have
had with Treasury on the design of this fund I have found it to be very
supportive. Every time I ask Treasury for a briefing, the briefing is
incredibly detailed and supportive of the government's position.
That brings me to the third
question, which was, in essence: what are the details of the future fund? The
details of the future fund will be released at —
Mr
B.S. Wyatt : That was not the question at all. I asked about windfall
revenue.
Mr
C.C. PORTER : The member wanted details of the future fund. What detail
would the member like to know about the future fund?
Mr
B.S. Wyatt : Are you planning on using the capital? What is it?
Mr
C.C. PORTER : The member will have to wait until budget time for the detail.
Mr
W.J. Johnston : You don't know. You haven't made up your
mind yet.
Mr
C.C. PORTER : Of course we know. We know exactly. Do members know what I
think is happening here? I think the opposition has future fund envy! That is
what is happening. In fact, as the Premier gave his excellent Premier's
Statement I saw the look of abject disappointment on the Leader of the Opposition's
face when he grabbed his red pen and but a big line through pages 2 and 3 of
his speech—the future fund pages. I knew exactly what was going on—future
fund envy! What we will be delivering in this budget and what will be supported
wholeheartedly by the people of Western Australia is a future fund, and that
will have a great deal of detail attached to it when it is released at budget
time.
Several opposition members
interjected.
The
SPEAKER : Member for Willagee, I formally call you to order for the first
time today. Member for Warnbro, you are now on three formal calls. Member for
West Swan, you are on two formal calls. Treasurer, I would like this question
to conclude so that I can give someone else the call. I am going to say to
members on my left that I will definitely give the member for Victoria Park a
supplementary question, which I am sure he will seek. Sometimes the questions
go on too long, and the answers in particular.
Mr
C.C. PORTER : The Speaker is quite right. The detail of the future fund, the
source of the revenue, the quantum and the how and what will be invested and
whether it is to be invested in the future fund, are details that we have been
working on for some time, and they will be released at budget time. I look
forward to releasing them because this will be great for Western Australians
and their children.
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