❓ Minister Porter provides an update on prison expansion, highlighting increased bed capacity and cost savings redirected to further accommodation. He also refutes claims about the prison population's demographics, particularly regarding fine defaulters and mental health issues.
AnsweredQoN 901Legislative Assembly
QuestionView source ↗
PRISONS — ACCOMMODATION
I refer to the Liberal-National government’s record allocation of funding to address the issue of lack of accommodation in the state’s long-neglected prison system. Can the minister please update members on any progress on the expansion program? Mr C.C. PORTER
I refer to the Liberal-National government’s record allocation of funding to address the issue of lack of accommodation in the state’s long-neglected prison system. Can the minister please update members on any progress on the expansion program? Mr C.C. PORTER
AnswerView source ↗
I thank the member for his question and acknowledge his long involvement and deep understanding of the criminal justice system. As of 20 October the Liberal-National government has placed 353 beds into the prison system that were not there when we took government not that long ago. One of the recent announcements that the Liberal-National government made was that we had set aside $186 million for a 387-bed expansion for Acacia Prison that would involve the building of two entirely new wings inside the perimeter fence at Acacia. What we have found, fortuitously, through the procurement process with respect to the Acacia program is a cost saving of about $60 million, which as a government we have announced we will redirect into further accommodation in the prison system—indeed, a further 640 beds. A decision is being made at the moment about precisely where they will go, but the candidates are Casuarina, Albany and Greenough prisons. It is likely that there will be a mixture of numbers between those three prisons. We are also looking at Hakea because, of course, being a remand prison, it is under some significant stress at the moment. I might also add to this—and I say this with respect to the member for Warnbro’s recent media statement titled “WA prisons flooded with mentally ill, poor and indigenous”—that the member for Warnbro and I are on a journey of learning with respect to the prison system, because it is a very complicated system. However, I might just, with all respect, make a couple of points about that media statement. The first point is that it is mostly wrong. That is actually an important point, because putting out statements like this really does stymie any realistic ability to have sensible debate. The member said in his statement that more than 34 per cent of prisoners were in prison for no other reason than they did not have enough money to pay a fine. I know that the member based that assertion on answers to a question on notice. Mr M. McGowan : So they were wrong! Mr C.C. PORTER : No, they were right; they just were not read properly. It stated — (d) Of the distinct adult persons who became sentenced prisoners during the period 1 November 2008 to 30 September 2009, 1423 had at least one sentenced period of imprisonment that was for fine default ONLY. (Note that Remand Warrants may have been current at the same time; also, they may have served a term of imprisonment at a different time during the period 1 November 2008 to 30 September 2009 … That means the overwhelming majority of those people were actually serving their fine default days whilst they were on remand—that is, arrested and charged for another offence. Ms A.J.G. MacTiernan interjected. Mr C.C. PORTER : What was stated in the media statement is not at all a reflection of the answer that was given. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Members! Mr C.C. PORTER : I am happy to tell the member that the correct question to ask is: at a fixed date, how many people in the prison system are there for only fine default, excluding remand? As at the last date of calculation, which was in September, it was about 14 people, which is about 0.35 per cent of the population. Therefore, the member is only 100 per cent wrong, but I understand the point he was trying to make. Also, with respect to intellectual disabilities, the member is quite right. In answer to the question I think we noted that about 14 per cent of the prison population had flagged on entry some form or other of mental difficulty or psychiatric problem. I think an important point to note here, though, before we get too hyperbolic about that figure, is that in 2007 the Australian Bureau of Statistics did a complete review of interviewed people about mental disorders. Maybe the Minister for Mental Health is aware of this study. Interestingly, 45 per cent of all Australians responded, based on the sample size, that at some time they had had some form of mental disorder and 22 per cent said that they had experienced that in the past 12 months. Therefore, based on that data, which is not an unreasonable comparison, we actually have fewer mentally unwell people in the prison system than we do in the population at large. Also, the Indigenous population as a total percentage of the overall population has decreased under this government compared with the previous government. Therefore, not only are we decreasing rates of reported crime quite significantly and not only are we investing in the prison system, but we are being accurate. Mr P. Papalia : What is the percentage? Mr C.C. PORTER : At the moment it is 40.8 per cent and that is of the entire population. That is something that would have been highly desirable to decrease — Mr P. Papalia : Of the increase? Mr C.C. PORTER : No, that is 40.8 per cent of the entire population. Mr P. Papalia : I was referring to the increase, which was quoting from a response to question — Mr C.C. PORTER : I understand that, but of the overall population, I understand that figure to be lower than what it was under the previous government. Several members interjected. Mr C.C. PORTER : It is lower than under the previous government. Therefore, of the total people we have policed — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Members! Mr C.C. PORTER : I think that the overall point, if I could make it, is that we need to exist in the real world. The reason people are in prison is not that they are poor or because of the colour of their skin; it is because they have committed serious offences against — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Thank you, members! Mr C.C. PORTER : — the laws of Western Australia. When members opposite start understanding that, they will have their eyes open to the reality of the prison system.
Mr C.C. PORTER replied: I thank the member for his question and acknowledge his long involvement and deep understanding of the criminal justice system. As of 20 October the Liberal-National government has placed 353 beds into the prison system that were not there when we took government not that long ago. One of the recent announcements that the Liberal-National government made was that we had set aside $186 million for a 387-bed expansion for Acacia Prison that would involve the building of two entirely new wings inside the perimeter fence at Acacia. What we have found, fortuitously, through the procurement process with respect to the Acacia program is a cost saving of about $60 million, which as a government we have announced we will redirect into further accommodation in the prison system—indeed, a further 640 beds. A decision is being made at the moment about precisely where they will go, but the candidates are Casuarina, Albany and Greenough prisons. It is likely that there will be a mixture of numbers between those three prisons. We are also looking at Hakea because, of course, being a remand prison, it is under some significant stress at the moment. I might also add to this—and I say this with respect to the member for Warnbro’s recent media statement titled “WA prisons flooded with mentally ill, poor and indigenous”—that the member for Warnbro and I are on a journey of learning with respect to the prison system, because it is a very complicated system. However, I might just, with all respect, make a couple of points about that media statement. The first point is that it is mostly wrong. That is actually an important point, because putting out statements like this really does stymie any realistic ability to have sensible debate. The member said in his statement that more than 34 per cent of prisoners were in prison for no other reason than they did not have enough money to pay a fine. I know that the member based that assertion on answers to a question on notice. Mr M. McGowan : So they were wrong! Mr C.C. PORTER : No, they were right; they just were not read properly. It stated — (d) Of the distinct adult persons who became sentenced prisoners during the period 1 November 2008 to 30 September 2009, 1423 had at least one sentenced period of imprisonment that was for fine default ONLY. (Note that Remand Warrants may have been current at the same time; also, they may have served a term of imprisonment at a different time during the period 1 November 2008 to 30 September 2009 … That means the overwhelming majority of those people were actually serving their fine default days whilst they were on remand—that is, arrested and charged for another offence. Ms A.J.G. MacTiernan interjected. Mr C.C. PORTER : What was stated in the media statement is not at all a reflection of the answer that was given. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Members! Mr C.C. PORTER : I am happy to tell the member that the correct question to ask is: at a fixed date, how many people in the prison system are there for only fine default, excluding remand? As at the last date of calculation, which was in September, it was about 14 people, which is about 0.35 per cent of the population. Therefore, the member is only 100 per cent wrong, but I understand the point he was trying to make. Also, with respect to intellectual disabilities, the member is quite right. In answer to the question I think we noted that about 14 per cent of the prison population had flagged on entry some form or other of mental difficulty or psychiatric problem. I think an important point to note here, though, before we get too hyperbolic about that figure, is that in 2007 the Australian Bureau of Statistics did a complete review of interviewed people about mental disorders. Maybe the Minister for Mental Health is aware of this study. Interestingly, 45 per cent of all Australians responded, based on the sample size, that at some time they had had some form of mental disorder and 22 per cent said that they had experienced that in the past 12 months. Therefore, based on that data, which is not an unreasonable comparison, we actually have fewer mentally unwell people in the prison system than we do in the population at large. Also, the Indigenous population as a total percentage of the overall population has decreased under this government compared with the previous government. Therefore, not only are we decreasing rates of reported crime quite significantly and not only are we investing in the prison system, but we are being accurate. Mr P. Papalia : What is the percentage? Mr C.C. PORTER : At the moment it is 40.8 per cent and that is of the entire population. That is something that would have been highly desirable to decrease — Mr P. Papalia : Of the increase? Mr C.C. PORTER : No, that is 40.8 per cent of the entire population. Mr P. Papalia : I was referring to the increase, which was quoting from a response to question — Mr C.C. PORTER : I understand that, but of the overall population, I understand that figure to be lower than what it was under the previous government. Several members interjected. Mr C.C. PORTER : It is lower than under the previous government. Therefore, of the total people we have policed — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Members! Mr C.C. PORTER : I think that the overall point, if I could make it, is that we need to exist in the real world. The reason people are in prison is not that they are poor or because of the colour of their skin; it is because they have committed serious offences against — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Thank you, members! Mr C.C. PORTER : — the laws of Western Australia. When members opposite start understanding that, they will have their eyes open to the reality of the prison system.
I thank the member for his question and acknowledge his long involvement and deep understanding of the criminal justice system. As of 20 October the Liberal-National government has placed 353 beds into the prison system that were not there when we took government not that long ago. One of the recent announcements that the Liberal-National government made was that we had set aside $186 million for a 387-bed expansion for Acacia Prison that would involve the building of two entirely new wings inside the perimeter fence at Acacia. What we have found, fortuitously, through the procurement process with respect to the Acacia program is a cost saving of about $60 million, which as a government we have announced we will redirect into further accommodation in the prison system—indeed, a further 640 beds. A decision is being made at the moment about precisely where they will go, but the candidates are Casuarina, Albany and Greenough prisons. It is likely that there will be a mixture of numbers between those three prisons. We are also looking at Hakea because, of course, being a remand prison, it is under some significant stress at the moment. I might also add to this—and I say this with respect to the member for Warnbro’s recent media statement titled “WA prisons flooded with mentally ill, poor and indigenous”—that the member for Warnbro and I are on a journey of learning with respect to the prison system, because it is a very complicated system. However, I might just, with all respect, make a couple of points about that media statement. The first point is that it is mostly wrong. That is actually an important point, because putting out statements like this really does stymie any realistic ability to have sensible debate. The member said in his statement that more than 34 per cent of prisoners were in prison for no other reason than they did not have enough money to pay a fine. I know that the member based that assertion on answers to a question on notice. Mr M. McGowan : So they were wrong! Mr C.C. PORTER : No, they were right; they just were not read properly. It stated — (d) Of the distinct adult persons who became sentenced prisoners during the period 1 November 2008 to 30 September 2009, 1423 had at least one sentenced period of imprisonment that was for fine default ONLY. (Note that Remand Warrants may have been current at the same time; also, they may have served a term of imprisonment at a different time during the period 1 November 2008 to 30 September 2009 … That means the overwhelming majority of those people were actually serving their fine default days whilst they were on remand—that is, arrested and charged for another offence. Ms A.J.G. MacTiernan interjected. Mr C.C. PORTER : What was stated in the media statement is not at all a reflection of the answer that was given. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Members! Mr C.C. PORTER : I am happy to tell the member that the correct question to ask is: at a fixed date, how many people in the prison system are there for only fine default, excluding remand? As at the last date of calculation, which was in September, it was about 14 people, which is about 0.35 per cent of the population. Therefore, the member is only 100 per cent wrong, but I understand the point he was trying to make. Also, with respect to intellectual disabilities, the member is quite right. In answer to the question I think we noted that about 14 per cent of the prison population had flagged on entry some form or other of mental difficulty or psychiatric problem. I think an important point to note here, though, before we get too hyperbolic about that figure, is that in 2007 the Australian Bureau of Statistics did a complete review of interviewed people about mental disorders. Maybe the Minister for Mental Health is aware of this study. Interestingly, 45 per cent of all Australians responded, based on the sample size, that at some time they had had some form of mental disorder and 22 per cent said that they had experienced that in the past 12 months. Therefore, based on that data, which is not an unreasonable comparison, we actually have fewer mentally unwell people in the prison system than we do in the population at large. Also, the Indigenous population as a total percentage of the overall population has decreased under this government compared with the previous government. Therefore, not only are we decreasing rates of reported crime quite significantly and not only are we investing in the prison system, but we are being accurate. Mr P. Papalia : What is the percentage? Mr C.C. PORTER : At the moment it is 40.8 per cent and that is of the entire population. That is something that would have been highly desirable to decrease — Mr P. Papalia : Of the increase? Mr C.C. PORTER : No, that is 40.8 per cent of the entire population. Mr P. Papalia : I was referring to the increase, which was quoting from a response to question — Mr C.C. PORTER : I understand that, but of the overall population, I understand that figure to be lower than what it was under the previous government. Several members interjected. Mr C.C. PORTER : It is lower than under the previous government. Therefore, of the total people we have policed — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Members! Mr C.C. PORTER : I think that the overall point, if I could make it, is that we need to exist in the real world. The reason people are in prison is not that they are poor or because of the colour of their skin; it is because they have committed serious offences against — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Thank you, members! Mr C.C. PORTER : — the laws of Western Australia. When members opposite start understanding that, they will have their eyes open to the reality of the prison system.
I might also add to this—and I say this with respect to the member for Warnbro’s recent media statement titled “WA prisons flooded with mentally ill, poor and indigenous”—that the member for Warnbro and I are on a journey of learning with respect to the prison system, because it is a very complicated system. However, I might just, with all respect, make a couple of points about that media statement. The first point is that it is mostly wrong. That is actually an important point, because putting out statements like this really does stymie any realistic ability to have sensible debate. The member said in his statement that more than 34 per cent of prisoners were in prison for no other reason than they did not have enough money to pay a fine. I know that the member based that assertion on answers to a question on notice. Mr M. McGowan : So they were wrong! Mr C.C. PORTER : No, they were right; they just were not read properly. It stated — (d) Of the distinct adult persons who became sentenced prisoners during the period 1 November 2008 to 30 September 2009, 1423 had at least one sentenced period of imprisonment that was for fine default ONLY. (Note that Remand Warrants may have been current at the same time; also, they may have served a term of imprisonment at a different time during the period 1 November 2008 to 30 September 2009 … That means the overwhelming majority of those people were actually serving their fine default days whilst they were on remand—that is, arrested and charged for another offence. Ms A.J.G. MacTiernan interjected. Mr C.C. PORTER : What was stated in the media statement is not at all a reflection of the answer that was given. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Members! Mr C.C. PORTER : I am happy to tell the member that the correct question to ask is: at a fixed date, how many people in the prison system are there for only fine default, excluding remand? As at the last date of calculation, which was in September, it was about 14 people, which is about 0.35 per cent of the population. Therefore, the member is only 100 per cent wrong, but I understand the point he was trying to make. Also, with respect to intellectual disabilities, the member is quite right. In answer to the question I think we noted that about 14 per cent of the prison population had flagged on entry some form or other of mental difficulty or psychiatric problem. I think an important point to note here, though, before we get too hyperbolic about that figure, is that in 2007 the Australian Bureau of Statistics did a complete review of interviewed people about mental disorders. Maybe the Minister for Mental Health is aware of this study. Interestingly, 45 per cent of all Australians responded, based on the sample size, that at some time they had had some form of mental disorder and 22 per cent said that they had experienced that in the past 12 months. Therefore, based on that data, which is not an unreasonable comparison, we actually have fewer mentally unwell people in the prison system than we do in the population at large. Also, the Indigenous population as a total percentage of the overall population has decreased under this government compared with the previous government. Therefore, not only are we decreasing rates of reported crime quite significantly and not only are we investing in the prison system, but we are being accurate. Mr P. Papalia : What is the percentage? Mr C.C. PORTER : At the moment it is 40.8 per cent and that is of the entire population. That is something that would have been highly desirable to decrease — Mr P. Papalia : Of the increase? Mr C.C. PORTER : No, that is 40.8 per cent of the entire population. Mr P. Papalia : I was referring to the increase, which was quoting from a response to question — Mr C.C. PORTER : I understand that, but of the overall population, I understand that figure to be lower than what it was under the previous government. Several members interjected. Mr C.C. PORTER : It is lower than under the previous government. Therefore, of the total people we have policed — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Members! Mr C.C. PORTER : I think that the overall point, if I could make it, is that we need to exist in the real world. The reason people are in prison is not that they are poor or because of the colour of their skin; it is because they have committed serious offences against — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Thank you, members! Mr C.C. PORTER : — the laws of Western Australia. When members opposite start understanding that, they will have their eyes open to the reality of the prison system.
Mr M. McGowan : So they were wrong! Mr C.C. PORTER : No, they were right; they just were not read properly. It stated — (d) Of the distinct adult persons who became sentenced prisoners during the period 1 November 2008 to 30 September 2009, 1423 had at least one sentenced period of imprisonment that was for fine default ONLY. (Note that Remand Warrants may have been current at the same time; also, they may have served a term of imprisonment at a different time during the period 1 November 2008 to 30 September 2009 … That means the overwhelming majority of those people were actually serving their fine default days whilst they were on remand—that is, arrested and charged for another offence. Ms A.J.G. MacTiernan interjected. Mr C.C. PORTER : What was stated in the media statement is not at all a reflection of the answer that was given. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Members! Mr C.C. PORTER : I am happy to tell the member that the correct question to ask is: at a fixed date, how many people in the prison system are there for only fine default, excluding remand? As at the last date of calculation, which was in September, it was about 14 people, which is about 0.35 per cent of the population. Therefore, the member is only 100 per cent wrong, but I understand the point he was trying to make. Also, with respect to intellectual disabilities, the member is quite right. In answer to the question I think we noted that about 14 per cent of the prison population had flagged on entry some form or other of mental difficulty or psychiatric problem. I think an important point to note here, though, before we get too hyperbolic about that figure, is that in 2007 the Australian Bureau of Statistics did a complete review of interviewed people about mental disorders. Maybe the Minister for Mental Health is aware of this study. Interestingly, 45 per cent of all Australians responded, based on the sample size, that at some time they had had some form of mental disorder and 22 per cent said that they had experienced that in the past 12 months. Therefore, based on that data, which is not an unreasonable comparison, we actually have fewer mentally unwell people in the prison system than we do in the population at large. Also, the Indigenous population as a total percentage of the overall population has decreased under this government compared with the previous government. Therefore, not only are we decreasing rates of reported crime quite significantly and not only are we investing in the prison system, but we are being accurate. Mr P. Papalia : What is the percentage? Mr C.C. PORTER : At the moment it is 40.8 per cent and that is of the entire population. That is something that would have been highly desirable to decrease — Mr P. Papalia : Of the increase? Mr C.C. PORTER : No, that is 40.8 per cent of the entire population. Mr P. Papalia : I was referring to the increase, which was quoting from a response to question — Mr C.C. PORTER : I understand that, but of the overall population, I understand that figure to be lower than what it was under the previous government. Several members interjected. Mr C.C. PORTER : It is lower than under the previous government. Therefore, of the total people we have policed — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Members! Mr C.C. PORTER : I think that the overall point, if I could make it, is that we need to exist in the real world. The reason people are in prison is not that they are poor or because of the colour of their skin; it is because they have committed serious offences against — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Thank you, members! Mr C.C. PORTER : — the laws of Western Australia. When members opposite start understanding that, they will have their eyes open to the reality of the prison system.
Mr C.C. PORTER : No, they were right; they just were not read properly. It stated — (d) Of the distinct adult persons who became sentenced prisoners during the period 1 November 2008 to 30 September 2009, 1423 had at least one sentenced period of imprisonment that was for fine default ONLY. (Note that Remand Warrants may have been current at the same time; also, they may have served a term of imprisonment at a different time during the period 1 November 2008 to 30 September 2009 … That means the overwhelming majority of those people were actually serving their fine default days whilst they were on remand—that is, arrested and charged for another offence. Ms A.J.G. MacTiernan interjected. Mr C.C. PORTER : What was stated in the media statement is not at all a reflection of the answer that was given. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Members! Mr C.C. PORTER : I am happy to tell the member that the correct question to ask is: at a fixed date, how many people in the prison system are there for only fine default, excluding remand? As at the last date of calculation, which was in September, it was about 14 people, which is about 0.35 per cent of the population. Therefore, the member is only 100 per cent wrong, but I understand the point he was trying to make. Also, with respect to intellectual disabilities, the member is quite right. In answer to the question I think we noted that about 14 per cent of the prison population had flagged on entry some form or other of mental difficulty or psychiatric problem. I think an important point to note here, though, before we get too hyperbolic about that figure, is that in 2007 the Australian Bureau of Statistics did a complete review of interviewed people about mental disorders. Maybe the Minister for Mental Health is aware of this study. Interestingly, 45 per cent of all Australians responded, based on the sample size, that at some time they had had some form of mental disorder and 22 per cent said that they had experienced that in the past 12 months. Therefore, based on that data, which is not an unreasonable comparison, we actually have fewer mentally unwell people in the prison system than we do in the population at large. Also, the Indigenous population as a total percentage of the overall population has decreased under this government compared with the previous government. Therefore, not only are we decreasing rates of reported crime quite significantly and not only are we investing in the prison system, but we are being accurate. Mr P. Papalia : What is the percentage? Mr C.C. PORTER : At the moment it is 40.8 per cent and that is of the entire population. That is something that would have been highly desirable to decrease — Mr P. Papalia : Of the increase? Mr C.C. PORTER : No, that is 40.8 per cent of the entire population. Mr P. Papalia : I was referring to the increase, which was quoting from a response to question — Mr C.C. PORTER : I understand that, but of the overall population, I understand that figure to be lower than what it was under the previous government. Several members interjected. Mr C.C. PORTER : It is lower than under the previous government. Therefore, of the total people we have policed — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Members! Mr C.C. PORTER : I think that the overall point, if I could make it, is that we need to exist in the real world. The reason people are in prison is not that they are poor or because of the colour of their skin; it is because they have committed serious offences against — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Thank you, members! Mr C.C. PORTER : — the laws of Western Australia. When members opposite start understanding that, they will have their eyes open to the reality of the prison system.
Ms A.J.G. MacTiernan interjected. Mr C.C. PORTER : What was stated in the media statement is not at all a reflection of the answer that was given. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Members! Mr C.C. PORTER : I am happy to tell the member that the correct question to ask is: at a fixed date, how many people in the prison system are there for only fine default, excluding remand? As at the last date of calculation, which was in September, it was about 14 people, which is about 0.35 per cent of the population. Therefore, the member is only 100 per cent wrong, but I understand the point he was trying to make. Also, with respect to intellectual disabilities, the member is quite right. In answer to the question I think we noted that about 14 per cent of the prison population had flagged on entry some form or other of mental difficulty or psychiatric problem. I think an important point to note here, though, before we get too hyperbolic about that figure, is that in 2007 the Australian Bureau of Statistics did a complete review of interviewed people about mental disorders. Maybe the Minister for Mental Health is aware of this study. Interestingly, 45 per cent of all Australians responded, based on the sample size, that at some time they had had some form of mental disorder and 22 per cent said that they had experienced that in the past 12 months. Therefore, based on that data, which is not an unreasonable comparison, we actually have fewer mentally unwell people in the prison system than we do in the population at large. Also, the Indigenous population as a total percentage of the overall population has decreased under this government compared with the previous government. Therefore, not only are we decreasing rates of reported crime quite significantly and not only are we investing in the prison system, but we are being accurate. Mr P. Papalia : What is the percentage? Mr C.C. PORTER : At the moment it is 40.8 per cent and that is of the entire population. That is something that would have been highly desirable to decrease — Mr P. Papalia : Of the increase? Mr C.C. PORTER : No, that is 40.8 per cent of the entire population. Mr P. Papalia : I was referring to the increase, which was quoting from a response to question — Mr C.C. PORTER : I understand that, but of the overall population, I understand that figure to be lower than what it was under the previous government. Several members interjected. Mr C.C. PORTER : It is lower than under the previous government. Therefore, of the total people we have policed — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Members! Mr C.C. PORTER : I think that the overall point, if I could make it, is that we need to exist in the real world. The reason people are in prison is not that they are poor or because of the colour of their skin; it is because they have committed serious offences against — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Thank you, members! Mr C.C. PORTER : — the laws of Western Australia. When members opposite start understanding that, they will have their eyes open to the reality of the prison system.
Mr C.C. PORTER : What was stated in the media statement is not at all a reflection of the answer that was given. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Members! Mr C.C. PORTER : I am happy to tell the member that the correct question to ask is: at a fixed date, how many people in the prison system are there for only fine default, excluding remand? As at the last date of calculation, which was in September, it was about 14 people, which is about 0.35 per cent of the population. Therefore, the member is only 100 per cent wrong, but I understand the point he was trying to make. Also, with respect to intellectual disabilities, the member is quite right. In answer to the question I think we noted that about 14 per cent of the prison population had flagged on entry some form or other of mental difficulty or psychiatric problem. I think an important point to note here, though, before we get too hyperbolic about that figure, is that in 2007 the Australian Bureau of Statistics did a complete review of interviewed people about mental disorders. Maybe the Minister for Mental Health is aware of this study. Interestingly, 45 per cent of all Australians responded, based on the sample size, that at some time they had had some form of mental disorder and 22 per cent said that they had experienced that in the past 12 months. Therefore, based on that data, which is not an unreasonable comparison, we actually have fewer mentally unwell people in the prison system than we do in the population at large. Also, the Indigenous population as a total percentage of the overall population has decreased under this government compared with the previous government. Therefore, not only are we decreasing rates of reported crime quite significantly and not only are we investing in the prison system, but we are being accurate. Mr P. Papalia : What is the percentage? Mr C.C. PORTER : At the moment it is 40.8 per cent and that is of the entire population. That is something that would have been highly desirable to decrease — Mr P. Papalia : Of the increase? Mr C.C. PORTER : No, that is 40.8 per cent of the entire population. Mr P. Papalia : I was referring to the increase, which was quoting from a response to question — Mr C.C. PORTER : I understand that, but of the overall population, I understand that figure to be lower than what it was under the previous government. Several members interjected. Mr C.C. PORTER : It is lower than under the previous government. Therefore, of the total people we have policed — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Members! Mr C.C. PORTER : I think that the overall point, if I could make it, is that we need to exist in the real world. The reason people are in prison is not that they are poor or because of the colour of their skin; it is because they have committed serious offences against — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Thank you, members! Mr C.C. PORTER : — the laws of Western Australia. When members opposite start understanding that, they will have their eyes open to the reality of the prison system.
Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Members! Mr C.C. PORTER : I am happy to tell the member that the correct question to ask is: at a fixed date, how many people in the prison system are there for only fine default, excluding remand? As at the last date of calculation, which was in September, it was about 14 people, which is about 0.35 per cent of the population. Therefore, the member is only 100 per cent wrong, but I understand the point he was trying to make. Also, with respect to intellectual disabilities, the member is quite right. In answer to the question I think we noted that about 14 per cent of the prison population had flagged on entry some form or other of mental difficulty or psychiatric problem. I think an important point to note here, though, before we get too hyperbolic about that figure, is that in 2007 the Australian Bureau of Statistics did a complete review of interviewed people about mental disorders. Maybe the Minister for Mental Health is aware of this study. Interestingly, 45 per cent of all Australians responded, based on the sample size, that at some time they had had some form of mental disorder and 22 per cent said that they had experienced that in the past 12 months. Therefore, based on that data, which is not an unreasonable comparison, we actually have fewer mentally unwell people in the prison system than we do in the population at large. Also, the Indigenous population as a total percentage of the overall population has decreased under this government compared with the previous government. Therefore, not only are we decreasing rates of reported crime quite significantly and not only are we investing in the prison system, but we are being accurate. Mr P. Papalia : What is the percentage? Mr C.C. PORTER : At the moment it is 40.8 per cent and that is of the entire population. That is something that would have been highly desirable to decrease — Mr P. Papalia : Of the increase? Mr C.C. PORTER : No, that is 40.8 per cent of the entire population. Mr P. Papalia : I was referring to the increase, which was quoting from a response to question — Mr C.C. PORTER : I understand that, but of the overall population, I understand that figure to be lower than what it was under the previous government. Several members interjected. Mr C.C. PORTER : It is lower than under the previous government. Therefore, of the total people we have policed — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Members! Mr C.C. PORTER : I think that the overall point, if I could make it, is that we need to exist in the real world. The reason people are in prison is not that they are poor or because of the colour of their skin; it is because they have committed serious offences against — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Thank you, members! Mr C.C. PORTER : — the laws of Western Australia. When members opposite start understanding that, they will have their eyes open to the reality of the prison system.
The SPEAKER : Members! Mr C.C. PORTER : I am happy to tell the member that the correct question to ask is: at a fixed date, how many people in the prison system are there for only fine default, excluding remand? As at the last date of calculation, which was in September, it was about 14 people, which is about 0.35 per cent of the population. Therefore, the member is only 100 per cent wrong, but I understand the point he was trying to make. Also, with respect to intellectual disabilities, the member is quite right. In answer to the question I think we noted that about 14 per cent of the prison population had flagged on entry some form or other of mental difficulty or psychiatric problem. I think an important point to note here, though, before we get too hyperbolic about that figure, is that in 2007 the Australian Bureau of Statistics did a complete review of interviewed people about mental disorders. Maybe the Minister for Mental Health is aware of this study. Interestingly, 45 per cent of all Australians responded, based on the sample size, that at some time they had had some form of mental disorder and 22 per cent said that they had experienced that in the past 12 months. Therefore, based on that data, which is not an unreasonable comparison, we actually have fewer mentally unwell people in the prison system than we do in the population at large. Also, the Indigenous population as a total percentage of the overall population has decreased under this government compared with the previous government. Therefore, not only are we decreasing rates of reported crime quite significantly and not only are we investing in the prison system, but we are being accurate. Mr P. Papalia : What is the percentage? Mr C.C. PORTER : At the moment it is 40.8 per cent and that is of the entire population. That is something that would have been highly desirable to decrease — Mr P. Papalia : Of the increase? Mr C.C. PORTER : No, that is 40.8 per cent of the entire population. Mr P. Papalia : I was referring to the increase, which was quoting from a response to question — Mr C.C. PORTER : I understand that, but of the overall population, I understand that figure to be lower than what it was under the previous government. Several members interjected. Mr C.C. PORTER : It is lower than under the previous government. Therefore, of the total people we have policed — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Members! Mr C.C. PORTER : I think that the overall point, if I could make it, is that we need to exist in the real world. The reason people are in prison is not that they are poor or because of the colour of their skin; it is because they have committed serious offences against — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Thank you, members! Mr C.C. PORTER : — the laws of Western Australia. When members opposite start understanding that, they will have their eyes open to the reality of the prison system.
Mr C.C. PORTER : I am happy to tell the member that the correct question to ask is: at a fixed date, how many people in the prison system are there for only fine default, excluding remand? As at the last date of calculation, which was in September, it was about 14 people, which is about 0.35 per cent of the population. Therefore, the member is only 100 per cent wrong, but I understand the point he was trying to make. Also, with respect to intellectual disabilities, the member is quite right. In answer to the question I think we noted that about 14 per cent of the prison population had flagged on entry some form or other of mental difficulty or psychiatric problem. I think an important point to note here, though, before we get too hyperbolic about that figure, is that in 2007 the Australian Bureau of Statistics did a complete review of interviewed people about mental disorders. Maybe the Minister for Mental Health is aware of this study. Interestingly, 45 per cent of all Australians responded, based on the sample size, that at some time they had had some form of mental disorder and 22 per cent said that they had experienced that in the past 12 months. Therefore, based on that data, which is not an unreasonable comparison, we actually have fewer mentally unwell people in the prison system than we do in the population at large. Also, the Indigenous population as a total percentage of the overall population has decreased under this government compared with the previous government. Therefore, not only are we decreasing rates of reported crime quite significantly and not only are we investing in the prison system, but we are being accurate. Mr P. Papalia : What is the percentage? Mr C.C. PORTER : At the moment it is 40.8 per cent and that is of the entire population. That is something that would have been highly desirable to decrease — Mr P. Papalia : Of the increase? Mr C.C. PORTER : No, that is 40.8 per cent of the entire population. Mr P. Papalia : I was referring to the increase, which was quoting from a response to question — Mr C.C. PORTER : I understand that, but of the overall population, I understand that figure to be lower than what it was under the previous government. Several members interjected. Mr C.C. PORTER : It is lower than under the previous government. Therefore, of the total people we have policed — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Members! Mr C.C. PORTER : I think that the overall point, if I could make it, is that we need to exist in the real world. The reason people are in prison is not that they are poor or because of the colour of their skin; it is because they have committed serious offences against — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Thank you, members! Mr C.C. PORTER : — the laws of Western Australia. When members opposite start understanding that, they will have their eyes open to the reality of the prison system.
Also, with respect to intellectual disabilities, the member is quite right. In answer to the question I think we noted that about 14 per cent of the prison population had flagged on entry some form or other of mental difficulty or psychiatric problem. I think an important point to note here, though, before we get too hyperbolic about that figure, is that in 2007 the Australian Bureau of Statistics did a complete review of interviewed people about mental disorders. Maybe the Minister for Mental Health is aware of this study. Interestingly, 45 per cent of all Australians responded, based on the sample size, that at some time they had had some form of mental disorder and 22 per cent said that they had experienced that in the past 12 months. Therefore, based on that data, which is not an unreasonable comparison, we actually have fewer mentally unwell people in the prison system than we do in the population at large. Also, the Indigenous population as a total percentage of the overall population has decreased under this government compared with the previous government. Therefore, not only are we decreasing rates of reported crime quite significantly and not only are we investing in the prison system, but we are being accurate. Mr P. Papalia : What is the percentage? Mr C.C. PORTER : At the moment it is 40.8 per cent and that is of the entire population. That is something that would have been highly desirable to decrease — Mr P. Papalia : Of the increase? Mr C.C. PORTER : No, that is 40.8 per cent of the entire population. Mr P. Papalia : I was referring to the increase, which was quoting from a response to question — Mr C.C. PORTER : I understand that, but of the overall population, I understand that figure to be lower than what it was under the previous government. Several members interjected. Mr C.C. PORTER : It is lower than under the previous government. Therefore, of the total people we have policed — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Members! Mr C.C. PORTER : I think that the overall point, if I could make it, is that we need to exist in the real world. The reason people are in prison is not that they are poor or because of the colour of their skin; it is because they have committed serious offences against — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Thank you, members! Mr C.C. PORTER : — the laws of Western Australia. When members opposite start understanding that, they will have their eyes open to the reality of the prison system.
Mr P. Papalia : What is the percentage? Mr C.C. PORTER : At the moment it is 40.8 per cent and that is of the entire population. That is something that would have been highly desirable to decrease — Mr P. Papalia : Of the increase? Mr C.C. PORTER : No, that is 40.8 per cent of the entire population. Mr P. Papalia : I was referring to the increase, which was quoting from a response to question — Mr C.C. PORTER : I understand that, but of the overall population, I understand that figure to be lower than what it was under the previous government. Several members interjected. Mr C.C. PORTER : It is lower than under the previous government. Therefore, of the total people we have policed — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Members! Mr C.C. PORTER : I think that the overall point, if I could make it, is that we need to exist in the real world. The reason people are in prison is not that they are poor or because of the colour of their skin; it is because they have committed serious offences against — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Thank you, members! Mr C.C. PORTER : — the laws of Western Australia. When members opposite start understanding that, they will have their eyes open to the reality of the prison system.
Mr C.C. PORTER : At the moment it is 40.8 per cent and that is of the entire population. That is something that would have been highly desirable to decrease — Mr P. Papalia : Of the increase? Mr C.C. PORTER : No, that is 40.8 per cent of the entire population. Mr P. Papalia : I was referring to the increase, which was quoting from a response to question — Mr C.C. PORTER : I understand that, but of the overall population, I understand that figure to be lower than what it was under the previous government. Several members interjected. Mr C.C. PORTER : It is lower than under the previous government. Therefore, of the total people we have policed — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Members! Mr C.C. PORTER : I think that the overall point, if I could make it, is that we need to exist in the real world. The reason people are in prison is not that they are poor or because of the colour of their skin; it is because they have committed serious offences against — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Thank you, members! Mr C.C. PORTER : — the laws of Western Australia. When members opposite start understanding that, they will have their eyes open to the reality of the prison system.
Mr P. Papalia : Of the increase? Mr C.C. PORTER : No, that is 40.8 per cent of the entire population. Mr P. Papalia : I was referring to the increase, which was quoting from a response to question — Mr C.C. PORTER : I understand that, but of the overall population, I understand that figure to be lower than what it was under the previous government. Several members interjected. Mr C.C. PORTER : It is lower than under the previous government. Therefore, of the total people we have policed — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Members! Mr C.C. PORTER : I think that the overall point, if I could make it, is that we need to exist in the real world. The reason people are in prison is not that they are poor or because of the colour of their skin; it is because they have committed serious offences against — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Thank you, members! Mr C.C. PORTER : — the laws of Western Australia. When members opposite start understanding that, they will have their eyes open to the reality of the prison system.
Mr C.C. PORTER : No, that is 40.8 per cent of the entire population. Mr P. Papalia : I was referring to the increase, which was quoting from a response to question — Mr C.C. PORTER : I understand that, but of the overall population, I understand that figure to be lower than what it was under the previous government. Several members interjected. Mr C.C. PORTER : It is lower than under the previous government. Therefore, of the total people we have policed — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Members! Mr C.C. PORTER : I think that the overall point, if I could make it, is that we need to exist in the real world. The reason people are in prison is not that they are poor or because of the colour of their skin; it is because they have committed serious offences against — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Thank you, members! Mr C.C. PORTER : — the laws of Western Australia. When members opposite start understanding that, they will have their eyes open to the reality of the prison system.
Mr P. Papalia : I was referring to the increase, which was quoting from a response to question — Mr C.C. PORTER : I understand that, but of the overall population, I understand that figure to be lower than what it was under the previous government. Several members interjected. Mr C.C. PORTER : It is lower than under the previous government. Therefore, of the total people we have policed — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Members! Mr C.C. PORTER : I think that the overall point, if I could make it, is that we need to exist in the real world. The reason people are in prison is not that they are poor or because of the colour of their skin; it is because they have committed serious offences against — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Thank you, members! Mr C.C. PORTER : — the laws of Western Australia. When members opposite start understanding that, they will have their eyes open to the reality of the prison system.
Mr C.C. PORTER : I understand that, but of the overall population, I understand that figure to be lower than what it was under the previous government. Several members interjected. Mr C.C. PORTER : It is lower than under the previous government. Therefore, of the total people we have policed — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Members! Mr C.C. PORTER : I think that the overall point, if I could make it, is that we need to exist in the real world. The reason people are in prison is not that they are poor or because of the colour of their skin; it is because they have committed serious offences against — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Thank you, members! Mr C.C. PORTER : — the laws of Western Australia. When members opposite start understanding that, they will have their eyes open to the reality of the prison system.
Several members interjected. Mr C.C. PORTER : It is lower than under the previous government. Therefore, of the total people we have policed — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Members! Mr C.C. PORTER : I think that the overall point, if I could make it, is that we need to exist in the real world. The reason people are in prison is not that they are poor or because of the colour of their skin; it is because they have committed serious offences against — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Thank you, members! Mr C.C. PORTER : — the laws of Western Australia. When members opposite start understanding that, they will have their eyes open to the reality of the prison system.
Mr C.C. PORTER : It is lower than under the previous government. Therefore, of the total people we have policed — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Members! Mr C.C. PORTER : I think that the overall point, if I could make it, is that we need to exist in the real world. The reason people are in prison is not that they are poor or because of the colour of their skin; it is because they have committed serious offences against — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Thank you, members! Mr C.C. PORTER : — the laws of Western Australia. When members opposite start understanding that, they will have their eyes open to the reality of the prison system.
Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Members! Mr C.C. PORTER : I think that the overall point, if I could make it, is that we need to exist in the real world. The reason people are in prison is not that they are poor or because of the colour of their skin; it is because they have committed serious offences against — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Thank you, members! Mr C.C. PORTER : — the laws of Western Australia. When members opposite start understanding that, they will have their eyes open to the reality of the prison system.
The SPEAKER : Members! Mr C.C. PORTER : I think that the overall point, if I could make it, is that we need to exist in the real world. The reason people are in prison is not that they are poor or because of the colour of their skin; it is because they have committed serious offences against — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Thank you, members! Mr C.C. PORTER : — the laws of Western Australia. When members opposite start understanding that, they will have their eyes open to the reality of the prison system.
Mr C.C. PORTER : I think that the overall point, if I could make it, is that we need to exist in the real world. The reason people are in prison is not that they are poor or because of the colour of their skin; it is because they have committed serious offences against — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Thank you, members! Mr C.C. PORTER : — the laws of Western Australia. When members opposite start understanding that, they will have their eyes open to the reality of the prison system.
Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Thank you, members! Mr C.C. PORTER : — the laws of Western Australia. When members opposite start understanding that, they will have their eyes open to the reality of the prison system.
The SPEAKER : Thank you, members! Mr C.C. PORTER : — the laws of Western Australia. When members opposite start understanding that, they will have their eyes open to the reality of the prison system.
Mr C.C. PORTER : — the laws of Western Australia. When members opposite start understanding that, they will have their eyes open to the reality of the prison system.
Mr C.C. PORTER replied: I thank the member for his question and acknowledge his long involvement and deep understanding of the criminal justice system. As of 20 October the Liberal-National government has placed 353 beds into the prison system that were not there when we took government not that long ago. One of the recent announcements that the Liberal-National government made was that we had set aside $186 million for a 387-bed expansion for Acacia Prison that would involve the building of two entirely new wings inside the perimeter fence at Acacia. What we have found, fortuitously, through the procurement process with respect to the Acacia program is a cost saving of about $60 million, which as a government we have announced we will redirect into further accommodation in the prison system—indeed, a further 640 beds. A decision is being made at the moment about precisely where they will go, but the candidates are Casuarina, Albany and Greenough prisons. It is likely that there will be a mixture of numbers between those three prisons. We are also looking at Hakea because, of course, being a remand prison, it is under some significant stress at the moment. I might also add to this—and I say this with respect to the member for Warnbro’s recent media statement titled “WA prisons flooded with mentally ill, poor and indigenous”—that the member for Warnbro and I are on a journey of learning with respect to the prison system, because it is a very complicated system. However, I might just, with all respect, make a couple of points about that media statement. The first point is that it is mostly wrong. That is actually an important point, because putting out statements like this really does stymie any realistic ability to have sensible debate. The member said in his statement that more than 34 per cent of prisoners were in prison for no other reason than they did not have enough money to pay a fine. I know that the member based that assertion on answers to a question on notice. Mr M. McGowan : So they were wrong! Mr C.C. PORTER : No, they were right; they just were not read properly. It stated — (d) Of the distinct adult persons who became sentenced prisoners during the period 1 November 2008 to 30 September 2009, 1423 had at least one sentenced period of imprisonment that was for fine default ONLY. (Note that Remand Warrants may have been current at the same time; also, they may have served a term of imprisonment at a different time during the period 1 November 2008 to 30 September 2009 … That means the overwhelming majority of those people were actually serving their fine default days whilst they were on remand—that is, arrested and charged for another offence. Ms A.J.G. MacTiernan interjected. Mr C.C. PORTER : What was stated in the media statement is not at all a reflection of the answer that was given. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Members! Mr C.C. PORTER : I am happy to tell the member that the correct question to ask is: at a fixed date, how many people in the prison system are there for only fine default, excluding remand? As at the last date of calculation, which was in September, it was about 14 people, which is about 0.35 per cent of the population. Therefore, the member is only 100 per cent wrong, but I understand the point he was trying to make. Also, with respect to intellectual disabilities, the member is quite right. In answer to the question I think we noted that about 14 per cent of the prison population had flagged on entry some form or other of mental difficulty or psychiatric problem. I think an important point to note here, though, before we get too hyperbolic about that figure, is that in 2007 the Australian Bureau of Statistics did a complete review of interviewed people about mental disorders. Maybe the Minister for Mental Health is aware of this study. Interestingly, 45 per cent of all Australians responded, based on the sample size, that at some time they had had some form of mental disorder and 22 per cent said that they had experienced that in the past 12 months. Therefore, based on that data, which is not an unreasonable comparison, we actually have fewer mentally unwell people in the prison system than we do in the population at large. Also, the Indigenous population as a total percentage of the overall population has decreased under this government compared with the previous government. Therefore, not only are we decreasing rates of reported crime quite significantly and not only are we investing in the prison system, but we are being accurate. Mr P. Papalia : What is the percentage? Mr C.C. PORTER : At the moment it is 40.8 per cent and that is of the entire population. That is something that would have been highly desirable to decrease — Mr P. Papalia : Of the increase? Mr C.C. PORTER : No, that is 40.8 per cent of the entire population. Mr P. Papalia : I was referring to the increase, which was quoting from a response to question — Mr C.C. PORTER : I understand that, but of the overall population, I understand that figure to be lower than what it was under the previous government. Several members interjected. Mr C.C. PORTER : It is lower than under the previous government. Therefore, of the total people we have policed — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Members! Mr C.C. PORTER : I think that the overall point, if I could make it, is that we need to exist in the real world. The reason people are in prison is not that they are poor or because of the colour of their skin; it is because they have committed serious offences against — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Thank you, members! Mr C.C. PORTER : — the laws of Western Australia. When members opposite start understanding that, they will have their eyes open to the reality of the prison system.
I thank the member for his question and acknowledge his long involvement and deep understanding of the criminal justice system. As of 20 October the Liberal-National government has placed 353 beds into the prison system that were not there when we took government not that long ago. One of the recent announcements that the Liberal-National government made was that we had set aside $186 million for a 387-bed expansion for Acacia Prison that would involve the building of two entirely new wings inside the perimeter fence at Acacia. What we have found, fortuitously, through the procurement process with respect to the Acacia program is a cost saving of about $60 million, which as a government we have announced we will redirect into further accommodation in the prison system—indeed, a further 640 beds. A decision is being made at the moment about precisely where they will go, but the candidates are Casuarina, Albany and Greenough prisons. It is likely that there will be a mixture of numbers between those three prisons. We are also looking at Hakea because, of course, being a remand prison, it is under some significant stress at the moment. I might also add to this—and I say this with respect to the member for Warnbro’s recent media statement titled “WA prisons flooded with mentally ill, poor and indigenous”—that the member for Warnbro and I are on a journey of learning with respect to the prison system, because it is a very complicated system. However, I might just, with all respect, make a couple of points about that media statement. The first point is that it is mostly wrong. That is actually an important point, because putting out statements like this really does stymie any realistic ability to have sensible debate. The member said in his statement that more than 34 per cent of prisoners were in prison for no other reason than they did not have enough money to pay a fine. I know that the member based that assertion on answers to a question on notice. Mr M. McGowan : So they were wrong! Mr C.C. PORTER : No, they were right; they just were not read properly. It stated — (d) Of the distinct adult persons who became sentenced prisoners during the period 1 November 2008 to 30 September 2009, 1423 had at least one sentenced period of imprisonment that was for fine default ONLY. (Note that Remand Warrants may have been current at the same time; also, they may have served a term of imprisonment at a different time during the period 1 November 2008 to 30 September 2009 … That means the overwhelming majority of those people were actually serving their fine default days whilst they were on remand—that is, arrested and charged for another offence. Ms A.J.G. MacTiernan interjected. Mr C.C. PORTER : What was stated in the media statement is not at all a reflection of the answer that was given. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Members! Mr C.C. PORTER : I am happy to tell the member that the correct question to ask is: at a fixed date, how many people in the prison system are there for only fine default, excluding remand? As at the last date of calculation, which was in September, it was about 14 people, which is about 0.35 per cent of the population. Therefore, the member is only 100 per cent wrong, but I understand the point he was trying to make. Also, with respect to intellectual disabilities, the member is quite right. In answer to the question I think we noted that about 14 per cent of the prison population had flagged on entry some form or other of mental difficulty or psychiatric problem. I think an important point to note here, though, before we get too hyperbolic about that figure, is that in 2007 the Australian Bureau of Statistics did a complete review of interviewed people about mental disorders. Maybe the Minister for Mental Health is aware of this study. Interestingly, 45 per cent of all Australians responded, based on the sample size, that at some time they had had some form of mental disorder and 22 per cent said that they had experienced that in the past 12 months. Therefore, based on that data, which is not an unreasonable comparison, we actually have fewer mentally unwell people in the prison system than we do in the population at large. Also, the Indigenous population as a total percentage of the overall population has decreased under this government compared with the previous government. Therefore, not only are we decreasing rates of reported crime quite significantly and not only are we investing in the prison system, but we are being accurate. Mr P. Papalia : What is the percentage? Mr C.C. PORTER : At the moment it is 40.8 per cent and that is of the entire population. That is something that would have been highly desirable to decrease — Mr P. Papalia : Of the increase? Mr C.C. PORTER : No, that is 40.8 per cent of the entire population. Mr P. Papalia : I was referring to the increase, which was quoting from a response to question — Mr C.C. PORTER : I understand that, but of the overall population, I understand that figure to be lower than what it was under the previous government. Several members interjected. Mr C.C. PORTER : It is lower than under the previous government. Therefore, of the total people we have policed — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Members! Mr C.C. PORTER : I think that the overall point, if I could make it, is that we need to exist in the real world. The reason people are in prison is not that they are poor or because of the colour of their skin; it is because they have committed serious offences against — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Thank you, members! Mr C.C. PORTER : — the laws of Western Australia. When members opposite start understanding that, they will have their eyes open to the reality of the prison system.
I might also add to this—and I say this with respect to the member for Warnbro’s recent media statement titled “WA prisons flooded with mentally ill, poor and indigenous”—that the member for Warnbro and I are on a journey of learning with respect to the prison system, because it is a very complicated system. However, I might just, with all respect, make a couple of points about that media statement. The first point is that it is mostly wrong. That is actually an important point, because putting out statements like this really does stymie any realistic ability to have sensible debate. The member said in his statement that more than 34 per cent of prisoners were in prison for no other reason than they did not have enough money to pay a fine. I know that the member based that assertion on answers to a question on notice. Mr M. McGowan : So they were wrong! Mr C.C. PORTER : No, they were right; they just were not read properly. It stated — (d) Of the distinct adult persons who became sentenced prisoners during the period 1 November 2008 to 30 September 2009, 1423 had at least one sentenced period of imprisonment that was for fine default ONLY. (Note that Remand Warrants may have been current at the same time; also, they may have served a term of imprisonment at a different time during the period 1 November 2008 to 30 September 2009 … That means the overwhelming majority of those people were actually serving their fine default days whilst they were on remand—that is, arrested and charged for another offence. Ms A.J.G. MacTiernan interjected. Mr C.C. PORTER : What was stated in the media statement is not at all a reflection of the answer that was given. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Members! Mr C.C. PORTER : I am happy to tell the member that the correct question to ask is: at a fixed date, how many people in the prison system are there for only fine default, excluding remand? As at the last date of calculation, which was in September, it was about 14 people, which is about 0.35 per cent of the population. Therefore, the member is only 100 per cent wrong, but I understand the point he was trying to make. Also, with respect to intellectual disabilities, the member is quite right. In answer to the question I think we noted that about 14 per cent of the prison population had flagged on entry some form or other of mental difficulty or psychiatric problem. I think an important point to note here, though, before we get too hyperbolic about that figure, is that in 2007 the Australian Bureau of Statistics did a complete review of interviewed people about mental disorders. Maybe the Minister for Mental Health is aware of this study. Interestingly, 45 per cent of all Australians responded, based on the sample size, that at some time they had had some form of mental disorder and 22 per cent said that they had experienced that in the past 12 months. Therefore, based on that data, which is not an unreasonable comparison, we actually have fewer mentally unwell people in the prison system than we do in the population at large. Also, the Indigenous population as a total percentage of the overall population has decreased under this government compared with the previous government. Therefore, not only are we decreasing rates of reported crime quite significantly and not only are we investing in the prison system, but we are being accurate. Mr P. Papalia : What is the percentage? Mr C.C. PORTER : At the moment it is 40.8 per cent and that is of the entire population. That is something that would have been highly desirable to decrease — Mr P. Papalia : Of the increase? Mr C.C. PORTER : No, that is 40.8 per cent of the entire population. Mr P. Papalia : I was referring to the increase, which was quoting from a response to question — Mr C.C. PORTER : I understand that, but of the overall population, I understand that figure to be lower than what it was under the previous government. Several members interjected. Mr C.C. PORTER : It is lower than under the previous government. Therefore, of the total people we have policed — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Members! Mr C.C. PORTER : I think that the overall point, if I could make it, is that we need to exist in the real world. The reason people are in prison is not that they are poor or because of the colour of their skin; it is because they have committed serious offences against — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Thank you, members! Mr C.C. PORTER : — the laws of Western Australia. When members opposite start understanding that, they will have their eyes open to the reality of the prison system.
Mr M. McGowan : So they were wrong! Mr C.C. PORTER : No, they were right; they just were not read properly. It stated — (d) Of the distinct adult persons who became sentenced prisoners during the period 1 November 2008 to 30 September 2009, 1423 had at least one sentenced period of imprisonment that was for fine default ONLY. (Note that Remand Warrants may have been current at the same time; also, they may have served a term of imprisonment at a different time during the period 1 November 2008 to 30 September 2009 … That means the overwhelming majority of those people were actually serving their fine default days whilst they were on remand—that is, arrested and charged for another offence. Ms A.J.G. MacTiernan interjected. Mr C.C. PORTER : What was stated in the media statement is not at all a reflection of the answer that was given. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Members! Mr C.C. PORTER : I am happy to tell the member that the correct question to ask is: at a fixed date, how many people in the prison system are there for only fine default, excluding remand? As at the last date of calculation, which was in September, it was about 14 people, which is about 0.35 per cent of the population. Therefore, the member is only 100 per cent wrong, but I understand the point he was trying to make. Also, with respect to intellectual disabilities, the member is quite right. In answer to the question I think we noted that about 14 per cent of the prison population had flagged on entry some form or other of mental difficulty or psychiatric problem. I think an important point to note here, though, before we get too hyperbolic about that figure, is that in 2007 the Australian Bureau of Statistics did a complete review of interviewed people about mental disorders. Maybe the Minister for Mental Health is aware of this study. Interestingly, 45 per cent of all Australians responded, based on the sample size, that at some time they had had some form of mental disorder and 22 per cent said that they had experienced that in the past 12 months. Therefore, based on that data, which is not an unreasonable comparison, we actually have fewer mentally unwell people in the prison system than we do in the population at large. Also, the Indigenous population as a total percentage of the overall population has decreased under this government compared with the previous government. Therefore, not only are we decreasing rates of reported crime quite significantly and not only are we investing in the prison system, but we are being accurate. Mr P. Papalia : What is the percentage? Mr C.C. PORTER : At the moment it is 40.8 per cent and that is of the entire population. That is something that would have been highly desirable to decrease — Mr P. Papalia : Of the increase? Mr C.C. PORTER : No, that is 40.8 per cent of the entire population. Mr P. Papalia : I was referring to the increase, which was quoting from a response to question — Mr C.C. PORTER : I understand that, but of the overall population, I understand that figure to be lower than what it was under the previous government. Several members interjected. Mr C.C. PORTER : It is lower than under the previous government. Therefore, of the total people we have policed — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Members! Mr C.C. PORTER : I think that the overall point, if I could make it, is that we need to exist in the real world. The reason people are in prison is not that they are poor or because of the colour of their skin; it is because they have committed serious offences against — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Thank you, members! Mr C.C. PORTER : — the laws of Western Australia. When members opposite start understanding that, they will have their eyes open to the reality of the prison system.
Mr C.C. PORTER : No, they were right; they just were not read properly. It stated — (d) Of the distinct adult persons who became sentenced prisoners during the period 1 November 2008 to 30 September 2009, 1423 had at least one sentenced period of imprisonment that was for fine default ONLY. (Note that Remand Warrants may have been current at the same time; also, they may have served a term of imprisonment at a different time during the period 1 November 2008 to 30 September 2009 … That means the overwhelming majority of those people were actually serving their fine default days whilst they were on remand—that is, arrested and charged for another offence. Ms A.J.G. MacTiernan interjected. Mr C.C. PORTER : What was stated in the media statement is not at all a reflection of the answer that was given. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Members! Mr C.C. PORTER : I am happy to tell the member that the correct question to ask is: at a fixed date, how many people in the prison system are there for only fine default, excluding remand? As at the last date of calculation, which was in September, it was about 14 people, which is about 0.35 per cent of the population. Therefore, the member is only 100 per cent wrong, but I understand the point he was trying to make. Also, with respect to intellectual disabilities, the member is quite right. In answer to the question I think we noted that about 14 per cent of the prison population had flagged on entry some form or other of mental difficulty or psychiatric problem. I think an important point to note here, though, before we get too hyperbolic about that figure, is that in 2007 the Australian Bureau of Statistics did a complete review of interviewed people about mental disorders. Maybe the Minister for Mental Health is aware of this study. Interestingly, 45 per cent of all Australians responded, based on the sample size, that at some time they had had some form of mental disorder and 22 per cent said that they had experienced that in the past 12 months. Therefore, based on that data, which is not an unreasonable comparison, we actually have fewer mentally unwell people in the prison system than we do in the population at large. Also, the Indigenous population as a total percentage of the overall population has decreased under this government compared with the previous government. Therefore, not only are we decreasing rates of reported crime quite significantly and not only are we investing in the prison system, but we are being accurate. Mr P. Papalia : What is the percentage? Mr C.C. PORTER : At the moment it is 40.8 per cent and that is of the entire population. That is something that would have been highly desirable to decrease — Mr P. Papalia : Of the increase? Mr C.C. PORTER : No, that is 40.8 per cent of the entire population. Mr P. Papalia : I was referring to the increase, which was quoting from a response to question — Mr C.C. PORTER : I understand that, but of the overall population, I understand that figure to be lower than what it was under the previous government. Several members interjected. Mr C.C. PORTER : It is lower than under the previous government. Therefore, of the total people we have policed — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Members! Mr C.C. PORTER : I think that the overall point, if I could make it, is that we need to exist in the real world. The reason people are in prison is not that they are poor or because of the colour of their skin; it is because they have committed serious offences against — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Thank you, members! Mr C.C. PORTER : — the laws of Western Australia. When members opposite start understanding that, they will have their eyes open to the reality of the prison system.
Ms A.J.G. MacTiernan interjected. Mr C.C. PORTER : What was stated in the media statement is not at all a reflection of the answer that was given. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Members! Mr C.C. PORTER : I am happy to tell the member that the correct question to ask is: at a fixed date, how many people in the prison system are there for only fine default, excluding remand? As at the last date of calculation, which was in September, it was about 14 people, which is about 0.35 per cent of the population. Therefore, the member is only 100 per cent wrong, but I understand the point he was trying to make. Also, with respect to intellectual disabilities, the member is quite right. In answer to the question I think we noted that about 14 per cent of the prison population had flagged on entry some form or other of mental difficulty or psychiatric problem. I think an important point to note here, though, before we get too hyperbolic about that figure, is that in 2007 the Australian Bureau of Statistics did a complete review of interviewed people about mental disorders. Maybe the Minister for Mental Health is aware of this study. Interestingly, 45 per cent of all Australians responded, based on the sample size, that at some time they had had some form of mental disorder and 22 per cent said that they had experienced that in the past 12 months. Therefore, based on that data, which is not an unreasonable comparison, we actually have fewer mentally unwell people in the prison system than we do in the population at large. Also, the Indigenous population as a total percentage of the overall population has decreased under this government compared with the previous government. Therefore, not only are we decreasing rates of reported crime quite significantly and not only are we investing in the prison system, but we are being accurate. Mr P. Papalia : What is the percentage? Mr C.C. PORTER : At the moment it is 40.8 per cent and that is of the entire population. That is something that would have been highly desirable to decrease — Mr P. Papalia : Of the increase? Mr C.C. PORTER : No, that is 40.8 per cent of the entire population. Mr P. Papalia : I was referring to the increase, which was quoting from a response to question — Mr C.C. PORTER : I understand that, but of the overall population, I understand that figure to be lower than what it was under the previous government. Several members interjected. Mr C.C. PORTER : It is lower than under the previous government. Therefore, of the total people we have policed — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Members! Mr C.C. PORTER : I think that the overall point, if I could make it, is that we need to exist in the real world. The reason people are in prison is not that they are poor or because of the colour of their skin; it is because they have committed serious offences against — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Thank you, members! Mr C.C. PORTER : — the laws of Western Australia. When members opposite start understanding that, they will have their eyes open to the reality of the prison system.
Mr C.C. PORTER : What was stated in the media statement is not at all a reflection of the answer that was given. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Members! Mr C.C. PORTER : I am happy to tell the member that the correct question to ask is: at a fixed date, how many people in the prison system are there for only fine default, excluding remand? As at the last date of calculation, which was in September, it was about 14 people, which is about 0.35 per cent of the population. Therefore, the member is only 100 per cent wrong, but I understand the point he was trying to make. Also, with respect to intellectual disabilities, the member is quite right. In answer to the question I think we noted that about 14 per cent of the prison population had flagged on entry some form or other of mental difficulty or psychiatric problem. I think an important point to note here, though, before we get too hyperbolic about that figure, is that in 2007 the Australian Bureau of Statistics did a complete review of interviewed people about mental disorders. Maybe the Minister for Mental Health is aware of this study. Interestingly, 45 per cent of all Australians responded, based on the sample size, that at some time they had had some form of mental disorder and 22 per cent said that they had experienced that in the past 12 months. Therefore, based on that data, which is not an unreasonable comparison, we actually have fewer mentally unwell people in the prison system than we do in the population at large. Also, the Indigenous population as a total percentage of the overall population has decreased under this government compared with the previous government. Therefore, not only are we decreasing rates of reported crime quite significantly and not only are we investing in the prison system, but we are being accurate. Mr P. Papalia : What is the percentage? Mr C.C. PORTER : At the moment it is 40.8 per cent and that is of the entire population. That is something that would have been highly desirable to decrease — Mr P. Papalia : Of the increase? Mr C.C. PORTER : No, that is 40.8 per cent of the entire population. Mr P. Papalia : I was referring to the increase, which was quoting from a response to question — Mr C.C. PORTER : I understand that, but of the overall population, I understand that figure to be lower than what it was under the previous government. Several members interjected. Mr C.C. PORTER : It is lower than under the previous government. Therefore, of the total people we have policed — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Members! Mr C.C. PORTER : I think that the overall point, if I could make it, is that we need to exist in the real world. The reason people are in prison is not that they are poor or because of the colour of their skin; it is because they have committed serious offences against — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Thank you, members! Mr C.C. PORTER : — the laws of Western Australia. When members opposite start understanding that, they will have their eyes open to the reality of the prison system.
Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Members! Mr C.C. PORTER : I am happy to tell the member that the correct question to ask is: at a fixed date, how many people in the prison system are there for only fine default, excluding remand? As at the last date of calculation, which was in September, it was about 14 people, which is about 0.35 per cent of the population. Therefore, the member is only 100 per cent wrong, but I understand the point he was trying to make. Also, with respect to intellectual disabilities, the member is quite right. In answer to the question I think we noted that about 14 per cent of the prison population had flagged on entry some form or other of mental difficulty or psychiatric problem. I think an important point to note here, though, before we get too hyperbolic about that figure, is that in 2007 the Australian Bureau of Statistics did a complete review of interviewed people about mental disorders. Maybe the Minister for Mental Health is aware of this study. Interestingly, 45 per cent of all Australians responded, based on the sample size, that at some time they had had some form of mental disorder and 22 per cent said that they had experienced that in the past 12 months. Therefore, based on that data, which is not an unreasonable comparison, we actually have fewer mentally unwell people in the prison system than we do in the population at large. Also, the Indigenous population as a total percentage of the overall population has decreased under this government compared with the previous government. Therefore, not only are we decreasing rates of reported crime quite significantly and not only are we investing in the prison system, but we are being accurate. Mr P. Papalia : What is the percentage? Mr C.C. PORTER : At the moment it is 40.8 per cent and that is of the entire population. That is something that would have been highly desirable to decrease — Mr P. Papalia : Of the increase? Mr C.C. PORTER : No, that is 40.8 per cent of the entire population. Mr P. Papalia : I was referring to the increase, which was quoting from a response to question — Mr C.C. PORTER : I understand that, but of the overall population, I understand that figure to be lower than what it was under the previous government. Several members interjected. Mr C.C. PORTER : It is lower than under the previous government. Therefore, of the total people we have policed — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Members! Mr C.C. PORTER : I think that the overall point, if I could make it, is that we need to exist in the real world. The reason people are in prison is not that they are poor or because of the colour of their skin; it is because they have committed serious offences against — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Thank you, members! Mr C.C. PORTER : — the laws of Western Australia. When members opposite start understanding that, they will have their eyes open to the reality of the prison system.
The SPEAKER : Members! Mr C.C. PORTER : I am happy to tell the member that the correct question to ask is: at a fixed date, how many people in the prison system are there for only fine default, excluding remand? As at the last date of calculation, which was in September, it was about 14 people, which is about 0.35 per cent of the population. Therefore, the member is only 100 per cent wrong, but I understand the point he was trying to make. Also, with respect to intellectual disabilities, the member is quite right. In answer to the question I think we noted that about 14 per cent of the prison population had flagged on entry some form or other of mental difficulty or psychiatric problem. I think an important point to note here, though, before we get too hyperbolic about that figure, is that in 2007 the Australian Bureau of Statistics did a complete review of interviewed people about mental disorders. Maybe the Minister for Mental Health is aware of this study. Interestingly, 45 per cent of all Australians responded, based on the sample size, that at some time they had had some form of mental disorder and 22 per cent said that they had experienced that in the past 12 months. Therefore, based on that data, which is not an unreasonable comparison, we actually have fewer mentally unwell people in the prison system than we do in the population at large. Also, the Indigenous population as a total percentage of the overall population has decreased under this government compared with the previous government. Therefore, not only are we decreasing rates of reported crime quite significantly and not only are we investing in the prison system, but we are being accurate. Mr P. Papalia : What is the percentage? Mr C.C. PORTER : At the moment it is 40.8 per cent and that is of the entire population. That is something that would have been highly desirable to decrease — Mr P. Papalia : Of the increase? Mr C.C. PORTER : No, that is 40.8 per cent of the entire population. Mr P. Papalia : I was referring to the increase, which was quoting from a response to question — Mr C.C. PORTER : I understand that, but of the overall population, I understand that figure to be lower than what it was under the previous government. Several members interjected. Mr C.C. PORTER : It is lower than under the previous government. Therefore, of the total people we have policed — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Members! Mr C.C. PORTER : I think that the overall point, if I could make it, is that we need to exist in the real world. The reason people are in prison is not that they are poor or because of the colour of their skin; it is because they have committed serious offences against — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Thank you, members! Mr C.C. PORTER : — the laws of Western Australia. When members opposite start understanding that, they will have their eyes open to the reality of the prison system.
Mr C.C. PORTER : I am happy to tell the member that the correct question to ask is: at a fixed date, how many people in the prison system are there for only fine default, excluding remand? As at the last date of calculation, which was in September, it was about 14 people, which is about 0.35 per cent of the population. Therefore, the member is only 100 per cent wrong, but I understand the point he was trying to make. Also, with respect to intellectual disabilities, the member is quite right. In answer to the question I think we noted that about 14 per cent of the prison population had flagged on entry some form or other of mental difficulty or psychiatric problem. I think an important point to note here, though, before we get too hyperbolic about that figure, is that in 2007 the Australian Bureau of Statistics did a complete review of interviewed people about mental disorders. Maybe the Minister for Mental Health is aware of this study. Interestingly, 45 per cent of all Australians responded, based on the sample size, that at some time they had had some form of mental disorder and 22 per cent said that they had experienced that in the past 12 months. Therefore, based on that data, which is not an unreasonable comparison, we actually have fewer mentally unwell people in the prison system than we do in the population at large. Also, the Indigenous population as a total percentage of the overall population has decreased under this government compared with the previous government. Therefore, not only are we decreasing rates of reported crime quite significantly and not only are we investing in the prison system, but we are being accurate. Mr P. Papalia : What is the percentage? Mr C.C. PORTER : At the moment it is 40.8 per cent and that is of the entire population. That is something that would have been highly desirable to decrease — Mr P. Papalia : Of the increase? Mr C.C. PORTER : No, that is 40.8 per cent of the entire population. Mr P. Papalia : I was referring to the increase, which was quoting from a response to question — Mr C.C. PORTER : I understand that, but of the overall population, I understand that figure to be lower than what it was under the previous government. Several members interjected. Mr C.C. PORTER : It is lower than under the previous government. Therefore, of the total people we have policed — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Members! Mr C.C. PORTER : I think that the overall point, if I could make it, is that we need to exist in the real world. The reason people are in prison is not that they are poor or because of the colour of their skin; it is because they have committed serious offences against — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Thank you, members! Mr C.C. PORTER : — the laws of Western Australia. When members opposite start understanding that, they will have their eyes open to the reality of the prison system.
Also, with respect to intellectual disabilities, the member is quite right. In answer to the question I think we noted that about 14 per cent of the prison population had flagged on entry some form or other of mental difficulty or psychiatric problem. I think an important point to note here, though, before we get too hyperbolic about that figure, is that in 2007 the Australian Bureau of Statistics did a complete review of interviewed people about mental disorders. Maybe the Minister for Mental Health is aware of this study. Interestingly, 45 per cent of all Australians responded, based on the sample size, that at some time they had had some form of mental disorder and 22 per cent said that they had experienced that in the past 12 months. Therefore, based on that data, which is not an unreasonable comparison, we actually have fewer mentally unwell people in the prison system than we do in the population at large. Also, the Indigenous population as a total percentage of the overall population has decreased under this government compared with the previous government. Therefore, not only are we decreasing rates of reported crime quite significantly and not only are we investing in the prison system, but we are being accurate. Mr P. Papalia : What is the percentage? Mr C.C. PORTER : At the moment it is 40.8 per cent and that is of the entire population. That is something that would have been highly desirable to decrease — Mr P. Papalia : Of the increase? Mr C.C. PORTER : No, that is 40.8 per cent of the entire population. Mr P. Papalia : I was referring to the increase, which was quoting from a response to question — Mr C.C. PORTER : I understand that, but of the overall population, I understand that figure to be lower than what it was under the previous government. Several members interjected. Mr C.C. PORTER : It is lower than under the previous government. Therefore, of the total people we have policed — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Members! Mr C.C. PORTER : I think that the overall point, if I could make it, is that we need to exist in the real world. The reason people are in prison is not that they are poor or because of the colour of their skin; it is because they have committed serious offences against — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Thank you, members! Mr C.C. PORTER : — the laws of Western Australia. When members opposite start understanding that, they will have their eyes open to the reality of the prison system.
Mr P. Papalia : What is the percentage? Mr C.C. PORTER : At the moment it is 40.8 per cent and that is of the entire population. That is something that would have been highly desirable to decrease — Mr P. Papalia : Of the increase? Mr C.C. PORTER : No, that is 40.8 per cent of the entire population. Mr P. Papalia : I was referring to the increase, which was quoting from a response to question — Mr C.C. PORTER : I understand that, but of the overall population, I understand that figure to be lower than what it was under the previous government. Several members interjected. Mr C.C. PORTER : It is lower than under the previous government. Therefore, of the total people we have policed — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Members! Mr C.C. PORTER : I think that the overall point, if I could make it, is that we need to exist in the real world. The reason people are in prison is not that they are poor or because of the colour of their skin; it is because they have committed serious offences against — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Thank you, members! Mr C.C. PORTER : — the laws of Western Australia. When members opposite start understanding that, they will have their eyes open to the reality of the prison system.
Mr C.C. PORTER : At the moment it is 40.8 per cent and that is of the entire population. That is something that would have been highly desirable to decrease — Mr P. Papalia : Of the increase? Mr C.C. PORTER : No, that is 40.8 per cent of the entire population. Mr P. Papalia : I was referring to the increase, which was quoting from a response to question — Mr C.C. PORTER : I understand that, but of the overall population, I understand that figure to be lower than what it was under the previous government. Several members interjected. Mr C.C. PORTER : It is lower than under the previous government. Therefore, of the total people we have policed — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Members! Mr C.C. PORTER : I think that the overall point, if I could make it, is that we need to exist in the real world. The reason people are in prison is not that they are poor or because of the colour of their skin; it is because they have committed serious offences against — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Thank you, members! Mr C.C. PORTER : — the laws of Western Australia. When members opposite start understanding that, they will have their eyes open to the reality of the prison system.
Mr P. Papalia : Of the increase? Mr C.C. PORTER : No, that is 40.8 per cent of the entire population. Mr P. Papalia : I was referring to the increase, which was quoting from a response to question — Mr C.C. PORTER : I understand that, but of the overall population, I understand that figure to be lower than what it was under the previous government. Several members interjected. Mr C.C. PORTER : It is lower than under the previous government. Therefore, of the total people we have policed — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Members! Mr C.C. PORTER : I think that the overall point, if I could make it, is that we need to exist in the real world. The reason people are in prison is not that they are poor or because of the colour of their skin; it is because they have committed serious offences against — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Thank you, members! Mr C.C. PORTER : — the laws of Western Australia. When members opposite start understanding that, they will have their eyes open to the reality of the prison system.
Mr C.C. PORTER : No, that is 40.8 per cent of the entire population. Mr P. Papalia : I was referring to the increase, which was quoting from a response to question — Mr C.C. PORTER : I understand that, but of the overall population, I understand that figure to be lower than what it was under the previous government. Several members interjected. Mr C.C. PORTER : It is lower than under the previous government. Therefore, of the total people we have policed — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Members! Mr C.C. PORTER : I think that the overall point, if I could make it, is that we need to exist in the real world. The reason people are in prison is not that they are poor or because of the colour of their skin; it is because they have committed serious offences against — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Thank you, members! Mr C.C. PORTER : — the laws of Western Australia. When members opposite start understanding that, they will have their eyes open to the reality of the prison system.
Mr P. Papalia : I was referring to the increase, which was quoting from a response to question — Mr C.C. PORTER : I understand that, but of the overall population, I understand that figure to be lower than what it was under the previous government. Several members interjected. Mr C.C. PORTER : It is lower than under the previous government. Therefore, of the total people we have policed — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Members! Mr C.C. PORTER : I think that the overall point, if I could make it, is that we need to exist in the real world. The reason people are in prison is not that they are poor or because of the colour of their skin; it is because they have committed serious offences against — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Thank you, members! Mr C.C. PORTER : — the laws of Western Australia. When members opposite start understanding that, they will have their eyes open to the reality of the prison system.
Mr C.C. PORTER : I understand that, but of the overall population, I understand that figure to be lower than what it was under the previous government. Several members interjected. Mr C.C. PORTER : It is lower than under the previous government. Therefore, of the total people we have policed — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Members! Mr C.C. PORTER : I think that the overall point, if I could make it, is that we need to exist in the real world. The reason people are in prison is not that they are poor or because of the colour of their skin; it is because they have committed serious offences against — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Thank you, members! Mr C.C. PORTER : — the laws of Western Australia. When members opposite start understanding that, they will have their eyes open to the reality of the prison system.
Several members interjected. Mr C.C. PORTER : It is lower than under the previous government. Therefore, of the total people we have policed — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Members! Mr C.C. PORTER : I think that the overall point, if I could make it, is that we need to exist in the real world. The reason people are in prison is not that they are poor or because of the colour of their skin; it is because they have committed serious offences against — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Thank you, members! Mr C.C. PORTER : — the laws of Western Australia. When members opposite start understanding that, they will have their eyes open to the reality of the prison system.
Mr C.C. PORTER : It is lower than under the previous government. Therefore, of the total people we have policed — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Members! Mr C.C. PORTER : I think that the overall point, if I could make it, is that we need to exist in the real world. The reason people are in prison is not that they are poor or because of the colour of their skin; it is because they have committed serious offences against — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Thank you, members! Mr C.C. PORTER : — the laws of Western Australia. When members opposite start understanding that, they will have their eyes open to the reality of the prison system.
Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Members! Mr C.C. PORTER : I think that the overall point, if I could make it, is that we need to exist in the real world. The reason people are in prison is not that they are poor or because of the colour of their skin; it is because they have committed serious offences against — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Thank you, members! Mr C.C. PORTER : — the laws of Western Australia. When members opposite start understanding that, they will have their eyes open to the reality of the prison system.
The SPEAKER : Members! Mr C.C. PORTER : I think that the overall point, if I could make it, is that we need to exist in the real world. The reason people are in prison is not that they are poor or because of the colour of their skin; it is because they have committed serious offences against — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Thank you, members! Mr C.C. PORTER : — the laws of Western Australia. When members opposite start understanding that, they will have their eyes open to the reality of the prison system.
Mr C.C. PORTER : I think that the overall point, if I could make it, is that we need to exist in the real world. The reason people are in prison is not that they are poor or because of the colour of their skin; it is because they have committed serious offences against — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Thank you, members! Mr C.C. PORTER : — the laws of Western Australia. When members opposite start understanding that, they will have their eyes open to the reality of the prison system.
Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Thank you, members! Mr C.C. PORTER : — the laws of Western Australia. When members opposite start understanding that, they will have their eyes open to the reality of the prison system.
The SPEAKER : Thank you, members! Mr C.C. PORTER : — the laws of Western Australia. When members opposite start understanding that, they will have their eyes open to the reality of the prison system.
Mr C.C. PORTER : — the laws of Western Australia. When members opposite start understanding that, they will have their eyes open to the reality of the prison system.
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