❓ Mr. Tinley questions the Minister for Housing regarding fraudulent job orders within the privatized Department of Housing maintenance regime. The Minister acknowledges challenges but highlights improvements in reducing non-compliance.
AnsweredQoN 365Legislative Assembly
QuestionView source ↗
DEPARTMENT
OF HOUSING — MAINTENANCE JOB ORDERS
365. Mr P.C. TINLEY to the Minister for Housing:
I refer to revelations that more than 21 000 job orders
submitted by head contractors under the government's privatised
Department of Housing maintenance regime have been identified as fraudulent,
not necessary, not to standard or noncompliant.
(1) How many job
orders submitted to the Department of Housing for payment since the
implementation of the head contractor model have been audited by the
department?
(2) Have any of
the 21 000-plus job orders identified as fraudulent been reported to the police
or the Corruption and Crime Commission and what specific measures is the
minister taking to stop these rorts?
(3) Has the
minister actually read the KPMG report into the head contractor model?
OF HOUSING — MAINTENANCE JOB ORDERS
365. Mr P.C. TINLEY to the Minister for Housing:
I refer to revelations that more than 21 000 job orders
submitted by head contractors under the government's privatised
Department of Housing maintenance regime have been identified as fraudulent,
not necessary, not to standard or noncompliant.
(1) How many job
orders submitted to the Department of Housing for payment since the
implementation of the head contractor model have been audited by the
department?
(2) Have any of
the 21 000-plus job orders identified as fraudulent been reported to the police
or the Corruption and Crime Commission and what specific measures is the
minister taking to stop these rorts?
(3) Has the
minister actually read the KPMG report into the head contractor model?
AnswerView source ↗
I thank the member for Willagee for the question.
(1)–(3)
Clearly, we have had a bit of a tussle over stuff on the radio this morning and
the member has just received, obviously, some questions on notice. I certainly
acknowledge the challenge of rolling out the head contractor model from July
2010. I think the last minister, likewise, on behalf of the Liberal–National
government, recognised those challenges.
The member quite rightly points
out that in the last two years there was a reported level of noncompliance in
the issuance of 21 000 job orders. I might highlight that in 2010–11
there were 14 000, and in 2011–12, until the end of April, I think,
there were 7 000. In other words, the number has actually halved. So in terms
of tracking performance, I think it is tracking absolutely in the right
direction.
The question that the member asked
is: how much of it was audited? Within the department, it is my understanding
that they audit between 10 and 40 per cent of the job orders that come in.
There is now a dedicated compliance unit within the Department of Housing. I
took the time to visit that unit and talk to all the people right from where
the phone calls come in to where the job orders are issued to where all the
compliance levels are checked, including talking to the qualified tradesmen who
actually do the job of phoning contractors and talking about job orders and
who, in some cases, go out and check the work. So there is a level of auditing
of somewhere between 10 and 40 per cent. It is not every one, of course, but it
is a reasonable sample.
Noncompliance can range from a form
being filled out wrongly to a job that is not completed to the satisfaction of
the person in the house. I do not deny that there could be fraud within that as
well; someone could issue something that is actually wrong and has not been
done. I have confidence that wherever that is identified, it is the department's
responsibility to take the appropriate actions. Bear in mind that noncompliance
can range over a whole heap of different levels. I think the member highlighted
through his media and so on this morning that everything is fraudulent, which
is just absolutely not the case. I do not know the levels —
Several members interjected.
The SPEAKER :
Members!
Mr D.T. REDMAN : I
do not know the numbers that have been reported as fraudulent. I am happy to
find out that information and get it back to the member.
An opposition member: How do you
know that they're not all fraudulent?
Mr
D.T. REDMAN : Hang on! Let us have a look at the numbers—at what has
actually happened. It is a key performance indicator of the department to
ensure that noncompliance is reduced under this model. What has been happening
over the two years that it has been in place? It is getting reduced; it has
halved in the last 12 months.
Several members interjected.
Mr
D.T. REDMAN : Performance, to me, is tracking at the right levels. Of course
there are challenges. When we have over 220 000 job orders issued—something
like 20 000 per month—the challenge across a state like Western
Australia is huge. When we go back to the time that members opposite were in
government, Auditor General reports highlight the challenge that they had, so
do not think for a second that noncompliance is a new issue. It is not; it is
something that has been there for a long, long time. The challenge for good
governments is to ensure that there are processes in place that manage that and
ensure that taxpayers get value for money.
Mr
P.C. Tinley : How many have you referred? How many have you sent to the
police?
Mr
D.T. REDMAN : The government need processes to ensure that taxpayers get
value for money in the money that it spends and to also ensure the quality of
work that happens.
To get on to the member's
last point: have I read the —
Several members interjected.
The
SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen, I formally call you to order for the first
time today. Member for Joondalup, member for Nollamara and member for Albany,
you can join the member for Girrawheen in being called formally to order for
the first time today. Member for Willagee, if you want to ask a question, you
will seek a supplementary question. I will give you that supplementary.
Mr
D.T. REDMAN : To answer the member's last question about whether I
have read the full KPMG report, the answer is no, I have not read it from cover
to cover. I certainly have read the executive summary of that report. I
certainly have had briefings from the agency, which is right to do as the new
minister. To that extent, I have also gone out and visited the sections of the
department that manage phone-ins, manage the issuance of those job orders,
manage those contracts, manage quality assurance and manage compliance. I have
taken it to that extent to ensure that taxpayers in Western Australia get value
for money and that we have confidence in the processes that are put in place to
ensure that this noncompliance level tracks appropriately. The last two years
show that it is. Of course, as minister it is my job to follow that through. Of
course, as minister it is my job to make sure that taxpayers get value for
money.
I also find it interesting that in
the media release the member put out he uses the word ''privatisation'',
which is rubbish. That is something that is consistently coming through from
the opposition in respect of the head contractor model. It is just garbage
because it was privatised 20 years ago. Secondly, the opposition used the word ''fraudulent''.
They are exactly the same couple of words that happen to appear in the union
press releases. We know who is doing the talking here!
(1)–(3)
Clearly, we have had a bit of a tussle over stuff on the radio this morning and
the member has just received, obviously, some questions on notice. I certainly
acknowledge the challenge of rolling out the head contractor model from July
2010. I think the last minister, likewise, on behalf of the Liberal–National
government, recognised those challenges.
The member quite rightly points
out that in the last two years there was a reported level of noncompliance in
the issuance of 21 000 job orders. I might highlight that in 2010–11
there were 14 000, and in 2011–12, until the end of April, I think,
there were 7 000. In other words, the number has actually halved. So in terms
of tracking performance, I think it is tracking absolutely in the right
direction.
The question that the member asked
is: how much of it was audited? Within the department, it is my understanding
that they audit between 10 and 40 per cent of the job orders that come in.
There is now a dedicated compliance unit within the Department of Housing. I
took the time to visit that unit and talk to all the people right from where
the phone calls come in to where the job orders are issued to where all the
compliance levels are checked, including talking to the qualified tradesmen who
actually do the job of phoning contractors and talking about job orders and
who, in some cases, go out and check the work. So there is a level of auditing
of somewhere between 10 and 40 per cent. It is not every one, of course, but it
is a reasonable sample.
Noncompliance can range from a form
being filled out wrongly to a job that is not completed to the satisfaction of
the person in the house. I do not deny that there could be fraud within that as
well; someone could issue something that is actually wrong and has not been
done. I have confidence that wherever that is identified, it is the department's
responsibility to take the appropriate actions. Bear in mind that noncompliance
can range over a whole heap of different levels. I think the member highlighted
through his media and so on this morning that everything is fraudulent, which
is just absolutely not the case. I do not know the levels —
Several members interjected.
The SPEAKER :
Members!
Mr D.T. REDMAN : I
do not know the numbers that have been reported as fraudulent. I am happy to
find out that information and get it back to the member.
An opposition member: How do you
know that they're not all fraudulent?
Mr
D.T. REDMAN : Hang on! Let us have a look at the numbers—at what has
actually happened. It is a key performance indicator of the department to
ensure that noncompliance is reduced under this model. What has been happening
over the two years that it has been in place? It is getting reduced; it has
halved in the last 12 months.
Several members interjected.
Mr
D.T. REDMAN : Performance, to me, is tracking at the right levels. Of course
there are challenges. When we have over 220 000 job orders issued—something
like 20 000 per month—the challenge across a state like Western
Australia is huge. When we go back to the time that members opposite were in
government, Auditor General reports highlight the challenge that they had, so
do not think for a second that noncompliance is a new issue. It is not; it is
something that has been there for a long, long time. The challenge for good
governments is to ensure that there are processes in place that manage that and
ensure that taxpayers get value for money.
Mr
P.C. Tinley : How many have you referred? How many have you sent to the
police?
Mr
D.T. REDMAN : The government need processes to ensure that taxpayers get
value for money in the money that it spends and to also ensure the quality of
work that happens.
To get on to the member's
last point: have I read the —
Several members interjected.
The
SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen, I formally call you to order for the first
time today. Member for Joondalup, member for Nollamara and member for Albany,
you can join the member for Girrawheen in being called formally to order for
the first time today. Member for Willagee, if you want to ask a question, you
will seek a supplementary question. I will give you that supplementary.
Mr
D.T. REDMAN : To answer the member's last question about whether I
have read the full KPMG report, the answer is no, I have not read it from cover
to cover. I certainly have read the executive summary of that report. I
certainly have had briefings from the agency, which is right to do as the new
minister. To that extent, I have also gone out and visited the sections of the
department that manage phone-ins, manage the issuance of those job orders,
manage those contracts, manage quality assurance and manage compliance. I have
taken it to that extent to ensure that taxpayers in Western Australia get value
for money and that we have confidence in the processes that are put in place to
ensure that this noncompliance level tracks appropriately. The last two years
show that it is. Of course, as minister it is my job to follow that through. Of
course, as minister it is my job to make sure that taxpayers get value for
money.
I also find it interesting that in
the media release the member put out he uses the word ''privatisation'',
which is rubbish. That is something that is consistently coming through from
the opposition in respect of the head contractor model. It is just garbage
because it was privatised 20 years ago. Secondly, the opposition used the word ''fraudulent''.
They are exactly the same couple of words that happen to appear in the union
press releases. We know who is doing the talking here!
Explore WA Government Data
Search the full archive in the free dashboard, or query programmatically via API.
Explore more
Government Gazette
Appointments, regulatory notices, planning changes.
Hansard
Debates, questions, speeches and sentiment.
Tabled Papers
Reports and documents tabled in Parliament.
Committees
Committee profiles and recent reports.
Regulations
Subsidiary legislation with filters and summaries.
Bills
Proposed laws and parliamentary progress.
Acts
Current WA legislation and summaries.
Explanatory Memoranda
Bills with EMs (text/PDF) available.
Members
MP profiles, party breakdown and rankings.
Pollie Rankings
Data-driven rankings across 19 categories.
Amendment Chains
Track how schemes and regulations evolve over time.