❓ Hon. Ravlich questions the Minister for Education about funding cuts and the criteria used to determine inefficiency in WA schools, particularly regarding student-to-staff ratios. The Minister denies funding cuts, cites increased funding, and provides comparative student-to-teacher ratios.
AnsweredQoN 552Legislative Council
QuestionView source ↗
MINISTER
FOR EDUCATION — SCHOOLS — COMMENTS
552. Hon LJILJANNA RAVLICH to the Minister for Education:
I refer to the minister's response in question time
last Wednesday when he said the following in relation to inefficient schools —
I want to make clear to the
honourable member that I did not say schools were inefficient. I said
student-to-staff ratios in our secondary schools are the most inefficient in
the nation. That is the fact.
Given that the government is cutting funding to both primary
and secondary schools —
(1) What
criteria did the minister use to establish that WA schools are inefficient and
that student-to-staff ratios in our secondary schools are the most inefficient
in the nation?
(2) Did the
minister's criteria take into consideration the number of teachers and
students per square kilometre and/or the population per secondary teacher in
government schools?
(3) If no to
(2), why not?
FOR EDUCATION — SCHOOLS — COMMENTS
552. Hon LJILJANNA RAVLICH to the Minister for Education:
I refer to the minister's response in question time
last Wednesday when he said the following in relation to inefficient schools —
I want to make clear to the
honourable member that I did not say schools were inefficient. I said
student-to-staff ratios in our secondary schools are the most inefficient in
the nation. That is the fact.
Given that the government is cutting funding to both primary
and secondary schools —
(1) What
criteria did the minister use to establish that WA schools are inefficient and
that student-to-staff ratios in our secondary schools are the most inefficient
in the nation?
(2) Did the
minister's criteria take into consideration the number of teachers and
students per square kilometre and/or the population per secondary teacher in
government schools?
(3) If no to
(2), why not?
AnswerView source ↗
I thank the honourable member for some notice of the
question.
(1)–(3)
As I have said all the way along, right from the very start of this debate, we
have not cut funding in education. That needs to be established. We have
increased funding. I will say it again: we have increased funding by 55 per cent
since we have been in government.
Hon
Ljiljanna Ravlich interjected.
Hon
PETER COLLIER : Wait on; Hon
Ljiljanna Ravlich asked the question.
We have increased funding in this budget by $300 million. We
are spreading that funding across all sectors more appropriately. It came
through as a direct recommendation from Professor Teese —
Hon Ljiljanna Ravlich : What is your criteria? Answer the question
for a change!
The PRESIDENT : Order! The question was asked
without notice; I am sure the minister is trying to answer all three parts of
the question.
Hon PETER COLLIER : We will be spreading the funding
much more evenly. At the moment there is a criteria that is used nationally to
determine ratios of students per teacher at both the secondary and primary
levels. I will give the honourable member those ratios as they stand; just to confirm
them. This is in 2012 in government schools. At the primary school level, we
are very efficient in terms of ratios: our student-to-teacher ratio is 15.9
compared with the Australian average of 15.2. In other jurisdictions, New South
Wales is 15.5, Victoria is 15, Queensland is 15.4, South Australia is 14.9 and
Tasmania is 14.5. Members can see that the ratios are very efficient. We are
really asking a lot from our primary school teachers. At the secondary school
level —
Hon Ljiljanna Ravlich : So w hy are you cutting their
funding?
Hon PETER COLLIER : Listen; we have not cut funding. I will
repeat it. D id anyone miss that? How many times do I have to say we have
not cut funding?
Several members interjected.
The PRESIDENT : Order! Let the Minister for
Education finish his answer, directed through the Chair.
Hon PETER COLLIER : Sorry, Mr President. I will direct my
answer to you.
At the secondary level, however, the situation is reversed in
terms of student-to-teacher ratios. We are the most inefficient. That does not
mean teachers are inefficient in terms of the role they play; it means in terms
of the numbers of students per teacher. Western Australia sits on 11.1 compared
with the Australian average of 12.3. In other jurisdictions, it is 12.4 in New
South Wales, 11.9 in Victoria, 12.5 in Queensland, 13.2 in South Australia and
13.1 in Tasmania. The ratio of 11.7 in Western Australia, in comparison, is the
most inefficient. We want to get to a situation much the same as Professor Teese
and David Gonski recommended; that is, a situation in which there is not as
much disparity between year groups. At the moment there are stage weights—each
different year group is taken in isolation. We are moving to a situation in
which each individual child is considered so that funding is directed
appropriately. That is what we are doing. It is based upon the evidence that I
have just presented yet again: we are moving to a much more equitable system of
funding and a much more targeted system of funding that will ultimately benefit
all students in Western Australia.
question.
(1)–(3)
As I have said all the way along, right from the very start of this debate, we
have not cut funding in education. That needs to be established. We have
increased funding. I will say it again: we have increased funding by 55 per cent
since we have been in government.
Hon
Ljiljanna Ravlich interjected.
Hon
PETER COLLIER : Wait on; Hon
Ljiljanna Ravlich asked the question.
We have increased funding in this budget by $300 million. We
are spreading that funding across all sectors more appropriately. It came
through as a direct recommendation from Professor Teese —
Hon Ljiljanna Ravlich : What is your criteria? Answer the question
for a change!
The PRESIDENT : Order! The question was asked
without notice; I am sure the minister is trying to answer all three parts of
the question.
Hon PETER COLLIER : We will be spreading the funding
much more evenly. At the moment there is a criteria that is used nationally to
determine ratios of students per teacher at both the secondary and primary
levels. I will give the honourable member those ratios as they stand; just to confirm
them. This is in 2012 in government schools. At the primary school level, we
are very efficient in terms of ratios: our student-to-teacher ratio is 15.9
compared with the Australian average of 15.2. In other jurisdictions, New South
Wales is 15.5, Victoria is 15, Queensland is 15.4, South Australia is 14.9 and
Tasmania is 14.5. Members can see that the ratios are very efficient. We are
really asking a lot from our primary school teachers. At the secondary school
level —
Hon Ljiljanna Ravlich : So w hy are you cutting their
funding?
Hon PETER COLLIER : Listen; we have not cut funding. I will
repeat it. D id anyone miss that? How many times do I have to say we have
not cut funding?
Several members interjected.
The PRESIDENT : Order! Let the Minister for
Education finish his answer, directed through the Chair.
Hon PETER COLLIER : Sorry, Mr President. I will direct my
answer to you.
At the secondary level, however, the situation is reversed in
terms of student-to-teacher ratios. We are the most inefficient. That does not
mean teachers are inefficient in terms of the role they play; it means in terms
of the numbers of students per teacher. Western Australia sits on 11.1 compared
with the Australian average of 12.3. In other jurisdictions, it is 12.4 in New
South Wales, 11.9 in Victoria, 12.5 in Queensland, 13.2 in South Australia and
13.1 in Tasmania. The ratio of 11.7 in Western Australia, in comparison, is the
most inefficient. We want to get to a situation much the same as Professor Teese
and David Gonski recommended; that is, a situation in which there is not as
much disparity between year groups. At the moment there are stage weights—each
different year group is taken in isolation. We are moving to a situation in
which each individual child is considered so that funding is directed
appropriately. That is what we are doing. It is based upon the evidence that I
have just presented yet again: we are moving to a much more equitable system of
funding and a much more targeted system of funding that will ultimately benefit
all students in Western Australia.
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