❓ Question regarding hospital bed availability in WA, criticising the government's failure to keep pace with population growth. The Minister acknowledges the issue, highlighting increased bed numbers and blaming delays in the Fiona Stanley Hospital project.
AnsweredQoN 775Legislative Assembly
QuestionView source ↗
HOSPITAL BEDS — AVAILABILITY
I refer to the Australian Medical Association report, released last week, which criticised the Western Australian state government for its failure to make the necessary number of hospital beds available to keep pace with Perth’s population growth and demand for hospital services. (1) Does the minister accept the AMA’s claim that, when hospitals operate above 85 per cent capacity, they compromise patient safety? (2) If so, when will the minister ensure that our hospitals operate below 85 per cent capacity given that, as of today, six major Perth hospitals are operating well in excess of 90 per cent? Dr K.D. HAMES
I refer to the Australian Medical Association report, released last week, which criticised the Western Australian state government for its failure to make the necessary number of hospital beds available to keep pace with Perth’s population growth and demand for hospital services. (1) Does the minister accept the AMA’s claim that, when hospitals operate above 85 per cent capacity, they compromise patient safety? (2) If so, when will the minister ensure that our hospitals operate below 85 per cent capacity given that, as of today, six major Perth hospitals are operating well in excess of 90 per cent? Dr K.D. HAMES
AnswerView source ↗
I thank the member for the question; I am sure he must have been getting out my old press releases! (1)–(2) I got stuck into the previous Minister for Health so many times because our hospitals were running at 95 per cent to 105 per cent capacity. What have we done since we have been in government? We have made a further 150 beds available since that time—in fact, 150 beds since that report came out. Mr E.S. Ripper : So it’s all okay, is it? Dr K.D. HAMES : Well, it is not okay, and the Leader of the Opposition knows as well as I do that it is not okay. The reality is that we need more beds. The reality is that, if we had had Fiona Stanley Hospital running in 2010, as the previous government said it would be, it would not be an issue; but I have to say, I do not really blame the opposition. I know the complexities involved in getting a hospital like that up off the ground and built and the time factor that it takes, so it is understandable — Mr T.R. Buswell : You’ve gone soft! Mr E.S. Ripper : Is this some new strategy? Dr K.D. HAMES : It is, Troy! It is really a difficult project. The reality is that that is when we needed those beds—in 2010. They are four years late, and it has created significant problems with the growth in demand that we are experiencing. I remind members that we have 2.5 per cent growth in demand as a result of growing population, we have four per cent growth in cost demand as a result of inflation and increased wages, and we have approximately two per cent growth in demand because of the ageing population. That is why the health budget needs to increase by about eight or nine per cent a year, to match all that demand. There is an ex-Treasurer coughing in the background, but it is true; those demands exist, and we have to meet them. I had an interesting conversation with representatives of the AMA when we had our usual meeting. I actually meet them; they did not get to meet the former Minister for Health very often, but I meet them every month and go through issues, and that was one of the issues we went through. Mr R.H. Cook : Is it true that you don’t let staffers in on those meetings? Dr K.D. HAMES : No, not true. Kim Snowball was there at our meeting yesterday, and my staff was certainly there. To get back to the issue of the number of beds, that report came out two years ago, so it does not take into account the additional beds at Joondalup and Rockingham. I note that Australia wide, only 378 additional beds were made available in that time. Since then, we have made about 150 additional beds available, so we are well in front compared with other states, but we do need those further beds. We need the Midland hospital to open, which will double the number of beds out there. We need the Fiona Stanley Hospital to open, because the percentage occupancy is not satisfactory; 85 per cent is the ideal. I do not think there are too many places in the world that actually get to that, so 90 per cent is okay, but we are still at 95 per cent plus. We need to get those percentages down and the only way to do it is to have more beds. That means that we need beds that are empty; if all the beds are full, then when we have surges of patients coming in, we will not have the ability to cater for them, so we actually need beds that are staffed but do not have patients to allow for those surges. One thing that is helping us to mitigate that is the changes with the four-hour rule, which allows for a much more efficient use of those beds, and the government’s approximately $20 million funding for Silver Chain, which creates beds at home. That is one thing that the AMA has not counted in those numbers—the fact that we have created the equivalent of 500 additional beds at home. Mr R.H. Cook : But that’s not what they’re measuring, is it? Dr K.D. HAMES : No. They are not measuring those; they do not measure those, but they do not have that in any other state. It has impacted significantly on demand growth pressures in our hospitals because we have the equivalent of 500 patients at any one time who would otherwise be in hospital who are now being cared for by nurses and doctors in their home. I will wait for the supplementary question to finish my answer.
(1) Does the minister accept the AMA’s claim that, when hospitals operate above 85 per cent capacity, they compromise patient safety? (2) If so, when will the minister ensure that our hospitals operate below 85 per cent capacity given that, as of today, six major Perth hospitals are operating well in excess of 90 per cent? Dr K.D. HAMES replied: I thank the member for the question; I am sure he must have been getting out my old press releases! (1)–(2) I got stuck into the previous Minister for Health so many times because our hospitals were running at 95 per cent to 105 per cent capacity. What have we done since we have been in government? We have made a further 150 beds available since that time—in fact, 150 beds since that report came out. Mr E.S. Ripper : So it’s all okay, is it? Dr K.D. HAMES : Well, it is not okay, and the Leader of the Opposition knows as well as I do that it is not okay. The reality is that we need more beds. The reality is that, if we had had Fiona Stanley Hospital running in 2010, as the previous government said it would be, it would not be an issue; but I have to say, I do not really blame the opposition. I know the complexities involved in getting a hospital like that up off the ground and built and the time factor that it takes, so it is understandable — Mr T.R. Buswell : You’ve gone soft! Mr E.S. Ripper : Is this some new strategy? Dr K.D. HAMES : It is, Troy! It is really a difficult project. The reality is that that is when we needed those beds—in 2010. They are four years late, and it has created significant problems with the growth in demand that we are experiencing. I remind members that we have 2.5 per cent growth in demand as a result of growing population, we have four per cent growth in cost demand as a result of inflation and increased wages, and we have approximately two per cent growth in demand because of the ageing population. That is why the health budget needs to increase by about eight or nine per cent a year, to match all that demand. There is an ex-Treasurer coughing in the background, but it is true; those demands exist, and we have to meet them. I had an interesting conversation with representatives of the AMA when we had our usual meeting. I actually meet them; they did not get to meet the former Minister for Health very often, but I meet them every month and go through issues, and that was one of the issues we went through. Mr R.H. Cook : Is it true that you don’t let staffers in on those meetings? Dr K.D. HAMES : No, not true. Kim Snowball was there at our meeting yesterday, and my staff was certainly there. To get back to the issue of the number of beds, that report came out two years ago, so it does not take into account the additional beds at Joondalup and Rockingham. I note that Australia wide, only 378 additional beds were made available in that time. Since then, we have made about 150 additional beds available, so we are well in front compared with other states, but we do need those further beds. We need the Midland hospital to open, which will double the number of beds out there. We need the Fiona Stanley Hospital to open, because the percentage occupancy is not satisfactory; 85 per cent is the ideal. I do not think there are too many places in the world that actually get to that, so 90 per cent is okay, but we are still at 95 per cent plus. We need to get those percentages down and the only way to do it is to have more beds. That means that we need beds that are empty; if all the beds are full, then when we have surges of patients coming in, we will not have the ability to cater for them, so we actually need beds that are staffed but do not have patients to allow for those surges. One thing that is helping us to mitigate that is the changes with the four-hour rule, which allows for a much more efficient use of those beds, and the government’s approximately $20 million funding for Silver Chain, which creates beds at home. That is one thing that the AMA has not counted in those numbers—the fact that we have created the equivalent of 500 additional beds at home. Mr R.H. Cook : But that’s not what they’re measuring, is it? Dr K.D. HAMES : No. They are not measuring those; they do not measure those, but they do not have that in any other state. It has impacted significantly on demand growth pressures in our hospitals because we have the equivalent of 500 patients at any one time who would otherwise be in hospital who are now being cared for by nurses and doctors in their home. I will wait for the supplementary question to finish my answer.
(2) If so, when will the minister ensure that our hospitals operate below 85 per cent capacity given that, as of today, six major Perth hospitals are operating well in excess of 90 per cent? Dr K.D. HAMES replied: I thank the member for the question; I am sure he must have been getting out my old press releases! (1)–(2) I got stuck into the previous Minister for Health so many times because our hospitals were running at 95 per cent to 105 per cent capacity. What have we done since we have been in government? We have made a further 150 beds available since that time—in fact, 150 beds since that report came out. Mr E.S. Ripper : So it’s all okay, is it? Dr K.D. HAMES : Well, it is not okay, and the Leader of the Opposition knows as well as I do that it is not okay. The reality is that we need more beds. The reality is that, if we had had Fiona Stanley Hospital running in 2010, as the previous government said it would be, it would not be an issue; but I have to say, I do not really blame the opposition. I know the complexities involved in getting a hospital like that up off the ground and built and the time factor that it takes, so it is understandable — Mr T.R. Buswell : You’ve gone soft! Mr E.S. Ripper : Is this some new strategy? Dr K.D. HAMES : It is, Troy! It is really a difficult project. The reality is that that is when we needed those beds—in 2010. They are four years late, and it has created significant problems with the growth in demand that we are experiencing. I remind members that we have 2.5 per cent growth in demand as a result of growing population, we have four per cent growth in cost demand as a result of inflation and increased wages, and we have approximately two per cent growth in demand because of the ageing population. That is why the health budget needs to increase by about eight or nine per cent a year, to match all that demand. There is an ex-Treasurer coughing in the background, but it is true; those demands exist, and we have to meet them. I had an interesting conversation with representatives of the AMA when we had our usual meeting. I actually meet them; they did not get to meet the former Minister for Health very often, but I meet them every month and go through issues, and that was one of the issues we went through. Mr R.H. Cook : Is it true that you don’t let staffers in on those meetings? Dr K.D. HAMES : No, not true. Kim Snowball was there at our meeting yesterday, and my staff was certainly there. To get back to the issue of the number of beds, that report came out two years ago, so it does not take into account the additional beds at Joondalup and Rockingham. I note that Australia wide, only 378 additional beds were made available in that time. Since then, we have made about 150 additional beds available, so we are well in front compared with other states, but we do need those further beds. We need the Midland hospital to open, which will double the number of beds out there. We need the Fiona Stanley Hospital to open, because the percentage occupancy is not satisfactory; 85 per cent is the ideal. I do not think there are too many places in the world that actually get to that, so 90 per cent is okay, but we are still at 95 per cent plus. We need to get those percentages down and the only way to do it is to have more beds. That means that we need beds that are empty; if all the beds are full, then when we have surges of patients coming in, we will not have the ability to cater for them, so we actually need beds that are staffed but do not have patients to allow for those surges. One thing that is helping us to mitigate that is the changes with the four-hour rule, which allows for a much more efficient use of those beds, and the government’s approximately $20 million funding for Silver Chain, which creates beds at home. That is one thing that the AMA has not counted in those numbers—the fact that we have created the equivalent of 500 additional beds at home. Mr R.H. Cook : But that’s not what they’re measuring, is it? Dr K.D. HAMES : No. They are not measuring those; they do not measure those, but they do not have that in any other state. It has impacted significantly on demand growth pressures in our hospitals because we have the equivalent of 500 patients at any one time who would otherwise be in hospital who are now being cared for by nurses and doctors in their home. I will wait for the supplementary question to finish my answer.
Dr K.D. HAMES replied: I thank the member for the question; I am sure he must have been getting out my old press releases! (1)–(2) I got stuck into the previous Minister for Health so many times because our hospitals were running at 95 per cent to 105 per cent capacity. What have we done since we have been in government? We have made a further 150 beds available since that time—in fact, 150 beds since that report came out. Mr E.S. Ripper : So it’s all okay, is it? Dr K.D. HAMES : Well, it is not okay, and the Leader of the Opposition knows as well as I do that it is not okay. The reality is that we need more beds. The reality is that, if we had had Fiona Stanley Hospital running in 2010, as the previous government said it would be, it would not be an issue; but I have to say, I do not really blame the opposition. I know the complexities involved in getting a hospital like that up off the ground and built and the time factor that it takes, so it is understandable — Mr T.R. Buswell : You’ve gone soft! Mr E.S. Ripper : Is this some new strategy? Dr K.D. HAMES : It is, Troy! It is really a difficult project. The reality is that that is when we needed those beds—in 2010. They are four years late, and it has created significant problems with the growth in demand that we are experiencing. I remind members that we have 2.5 per cent growth in demand as a result of growing population, we have four per cent growth in cost demand as a result of inflation and increased wages, and we have approximately two per cent growth in demand because of the ageing population. That is why the health budget needs to increase by about eight or nine per cent a year, to match all that demand. There is an ex-Treasurer coughing in the background, but it is true; those demands exist, and we have to meet them. I had an interesting conversation with representatives of the AMA when we had our usual meeting. I actually meet them; they did not get to meet the former Minister for Health very often, but I meet them every month and go through issues, and that was one of the issues we went through. Mr R.H. Cook : Is it true that you don’t let staffers in on those meetings? Dr K.D. HAMES : No, not true. Kim Snowball was there at our meeting yesterday, and my staff was certainly there. To get back to the issue of the number of beds, that report came out two years ago, so it does not take into account the additional beds at Joondalup and Rockingham. I note that Australia wide, only 378 additional beds were made available in that time. Since then, we have made about 150 additional beds available, so we are well in front compared with other states, but we do need those further beds. We need the Midland hospital to open, which will double the number of beds out there. We need the Fiona Stanley Hospital to open, because the percentage occupancy is not satisfactory; 85 per cent is the ideal. I do not think there are too many places in the world that actually get to that, so 90 per cent is okay, but we are still at 95 per cent plus. We need to get those percentages down and the only way to do it is to have more beds. That means that we need beds that are empty; if all the beds are full, then when we have surges of patients coming in, we will not have the ability to cater for them, so we actually need beds that are staffed but do not have patients to allow for those surges. One thing that is helping us to mitigate that is the changes with the four-hour rule, which allows for a much more efficient use of those beds, and the government’s approximately $20 million funding for Silver Chain, which creates beds at home. That is one thing that the AMA has not counted in those numbers—the fact that we have created the equivalent of 500 additional beds at home. Mr R.H. Cook : But that’s not what they’re measuring, is it? Dr K.D. HAMES : No. They are not measuring those; they do not measure those, but they do not have that in any other state. It has impacted significantly on demand growth pressures in our hospitals because we have the equivalent of 500 patients at any one time who would otherwise be in hospital who are now being cared for by nurses and doctors in their home. I will wait for the supplementary question to finish my answer.
I thank the member for the question; I am sure he must have been getting out my old press releases! (1)–(2) I got stuck into the previous Minister for Health so many times because our hospitals were running at 95 per cent to 105 per cent capacity. What have we done since we have been in government? We have made a further 150 beds available since that time—in fact, 150 beds since that report came out. Mr E.S. Ripper : So it’s all okay, is it? Dr K.D. HAMES : Well, it is not okay, and the Leader of the Opposition knows as well as I do that it is not okay. The reality is that we need more beds. The reality is that, if we had had Fiona Stanley Hospital running in 2010, as the previous government said it would be, it would not be an issue; but I have to say, I do not really blame the opposition. I know the complexities involved in getting a hospital like that up off the ground and built and the time factor that it takes, so it is understandable — Mr T.R. Buswell : You’ve gone soft! Mr E.S. Ripper : Is this some new strategy? Dr K.D. HAMES : It is, Troy! It is really a difficult project. The reality is that that is when we needed those beds—in 2010. They are four years late, and it has created significant problems with the growth in demand that we are experiencing. I remind members that we have 2.5 per cent growth in demand as a result of growing population, we have four per cent growth in cost demand as a result of inflation and increased wages, and we have approximately two per cent growth in demand because of the ageing population. That is why the health budget needs to increase by about eight or nine per cent a year, to match all that demand. There is an ex-Treasurer coughing in the background, but it is true; those demands exist, and we have to meet them. I had an interesting conversation with representatives of the AMA when we had our usual meeting. I actually meet them; they did not get to meet the former Minister for Health very often, but I meet them every month and go through issues, and that was one of the issues we went through. Mr R.H. Cook : Is it true that you don’t let staffers in on those meetings? Dr K.D. HAMES : No, not true. Kim Snowball was there at our meeting yesterday, and my staff was certainly there. To get back to the issue of the number of beds, that report came out two years ago, so it does not take into account the additional beds at Joondalup and Rockingham. I note that Australia wide, only 378 additional beds were made available in that time. Since then, we have made about 150 additional beds available, so we are well in front compared with other states, but we do need those further beds. We need the Midland hospital to open, which will double the number of beds out there. We need the Fiona Stanley Hospital to open, because the percentage occupancy is not satisfactory; 85 per cent is the ideal. I do not think there are too many places in the world that actually get to that, so 90 per cent is okay, but we are still at 95 per cent plus. We need to get those percentages down and the only way to do it is to have more beds. That means that we need beds that are empty; if all the beds are full, then when we have surges of patients coming in, we will not have the ability to cater for them, so we actually need beds that are staffed but do not have patients to allow for those surges. One thing that is helping us to mitigate that is the changes with the four-hour rule, which allows for a much more efficient use of those beds, and the government’s approximately $20 million funding for Silver Chain, which creates beds at home. That is one thing that the AMA has not counted in those numbers—the fact that we have created the equivalent of 500 additional beds at home. Mr R.H. Cook : But that’s not what they’re measuring, is it? Dr K.D. HAMES : No. They are not measuring those; they do not measure those, but they do not have that in any other state. It has impacted significantly on demand growth pressures in our hospitals because we have the equivalent of 500 patients at any one time who would otherwise be in hospital who are now being cared for by nurses and doctors in their home. I will wait for the supplementary question to finish my answer.
(1)–(2) I got stuck into the previous Minister for Health so many times because our hospitals were running at 95 per cent to 105 per cent capacity. What have we done since we have been in government? We have made a further 150 beds available since that time—in fact, 150 beds since that report came out. Mr E.S. Ripper : So it’s all okay, is it? Dr K.D. HAMES : Well, it is not okay, and the Leader of the Opposition knows as well as I do that it is not okay. The reality is that we need more beds. The reality is that, if we had had Fiona Stanley Hospital running in 2010, as the previous government said it would be, it would not be an issue; but I have to say, I do not really blame the opposition. I know the complexities involved in getting a hospital like that up off the ground and built and the time factor that it takes, so it is understandable — Mr T.R. Buswell : You’ve gone soft! Mr E.S. Ripper : Is this some new strategy? Dr K.D. HAMES : It is, Troy! It is really a difficult project. The reality is that that is when we needed those beds—in 2010. They are four years late, and it has created significant problems with the growth in demand that we are experiencing. I remind members that we have 2.5 per cent growth in demand as a result of growing population, we have four per cent growth in cost demand as a result of inflation and increased wages, and we have approximately two per cent growth in demand because of the ageing population. That is why the health budget needs to increase by about eight or nine per cent a year, to match all that demand. There is an ex-Treasurer coughing in the background, but it is true; those demands exist, and we have to meet them. I had an interesting conversation with representatives of the AMA when we had our usual meeting. I actually meet them; they did not get to meet the former Minister for Health very often, but I meet them every month and go through issues, and that was one of the issues we went through. Mr R.H. Cook : Is it true that you don’t let staffers in on those meetings? Dr K.D. HAMES : No, not true. Kim Snowball was there at our meeting yesterday, and my staff was certainly there. To get back to the issue of the number of beds, that report came out two years ago, so it does not take into account the additional beds at Joondalup and Rockingham. I note that Australia wide, only 378 additional beds were made available in that time. Since then, we have made about 150 additional beds available, so we are well in front compared with other states, but we do need those further beds. We need the Midland hospital to open, which will double the number of beds out there. We need the Fiona Stanley Hospital to open, because the percentage occupancy is not satisfactory; 85 per cent is the ideal. I do not think there are too many places in the world that actually get to that, so 90 per cent is okay, but we are still at 95 per cent plus. We need to get those percentages down and the only way to do it is to have more beds. That means that we need beds that are empty; if all the beds are full, then when we have surges of patients coming in, we will not have the ability to cater for them, so we actually need beds that are staffed but do not have patients to allow for those surges. One thing that is helping us to mitigate that is the changes with the four-hour rule, which allows for a much more efficient use of those beds, and the government’s approximately $20 million funding for Silver Chain, which creates beds at home. That is one thing that the AMA has not counted in those numbers—the fact that we have created the equivalent of 500 additional beds at home. Mr R.H. Cook : But that’s not what they’re measuring, is it? Dr K.D. HAMES : No. They are not measuring those; they do not measure those, but they do not have that in any other state. It has impacted significantly on demand growth pressures in our hospitals because we have the equivalent of 500 patients at any one time who would otherwise be in hospital who are now being cared for by nurses and doctors in their home. I will wait for the supplementary question to finish my answer.
Mr E.S. Ripper : So it’s all okay, is it? Dr K.D. HAMES : Well, it is not okay, and the Leader of the Opposition knows as well as I do that it is not okay. The reality is that we need more beds. The reality is that, if we had had Fiona Stanley Hospital running in 2010, as the previous government said it would be, it would not be an issue; but I have to say, I do not really blame the opposition. I know the complexities involved in getting a hospital like that up off the ground and built and the time factor that it takes, so it is understandable — Mr T.R. Buswell : You’ve gone soft! Mr E.S. Ripper : Is this some new strategy? Dr K.D. HAMES : It is, Troy! It is really a difficult project. The reality is that that is when we needed those beds—in 2010. They are four years late, and it has created significant problems with the growth in demand that we are experiencing. I remind members that we have 2.5 per cent growth in demand as a result of growing population, we have four per cent growth in cost demand as a result of inflation and increased wages, and we have approximately two per cent growth in demand because of the ageing population. That is why the health budget needs to increase by about eight or nine per cent a year, to match all that demand. There is an ex-Treasurer coughing in the background, but it is true; those demands exist, and we have to meet them. I had an interesting conversation with representatives of the AMA when we had our usual meeting. I actually meet them; they did not get to meet the former Minister for Health very often, but I meet them every month and go through issues, and that was one of the issues we went through. Mr R.H. Cook : Is it true that you don’t let staffers in on those meetings? Dr K.D. HAMES : No, not true. Kim Snowball was there at our meeting yesterday, and my staff was certainly there. To get back to the issue of the number of beds, that report came out two years ago, so it does not take into account the additional beds at Joondalup and Rockingham. I note that Australia wide, only 378 additional beds were made available in that time. Since then, we have made about 150 additional beds available, so we are well in front compared with other states, but we do need those further beds. We need the Midland hospital to open, which will double the number of beds out there. We need the Fiona Stanley Hospital to open, because the percentage occupancy is not satisfactory; 85 per cent is the ideal. I do not think there are too many places in the world that actually get to that, so 90 per cent is okay, but we are still at 95 per cent plus. We need to get those percentages down and the only way to do it is to have more beds. That means that we need beds that are empty; if all the beds are full, then when we have surges of patients coming in, we will not have the ability to cater for them, so we actually need beds that are staffed but do not have patients to allow for those surges. One thing that is helping us to mitigate that is the changes with the four-hour rule, which allows for a much more efficient use of those beds, and the government’s approximately $20 million funding for Silver Chain, which creates beds at home. That is one thing that the AMA has not counted in those numbers—the fact that we have created the equivalent of 500 additional beds at home. Mr R.H. Cook : But that’s not what they’re measuring, is it? Dr K.D. HAMES : No. They are not measuring those; they do not measure those, but they do not have that in any other state. It has impacted significantly on demand growth pressures in our hospitals because we have the equivalent of 500 patients at any one time who would otherwise be in hospital who are now being cared for by nurses and doctors in their home. I will wait for the supplementary question to finish my answer.
Dr K.D. HAMES : Well, it is not okay, and the Leader of the Opposition knows as well as I do that it is not okay. The reality is that we need more beds. The reality is that, if we had had Fiona Stanley Hospital running in 2010, as the previous government said it would be, it would not be an issue; but I have to say, I do not really blame the opposition. I know the complexities involved in getting a hospital like that up off the ground and built and the time factor that it takes, so it is understandable — Mr T.R. Buswell : You’ve gone soft! Mr E.S. Ripper : Is this some new strategy? Dr K.D. HAMES : It is, Troy! It is really a difficult project. The reality is that that is when we needed those beds—in 2010. They are four years late, and it has created significant problems with the growth in demand that we are experiencing. I remind members that we have 2.5 per cent growth in demand as a result of growing population, we have four per cent growth in cost demand as a result of inflation and increased wages, and we have approximately two per cent growth in demand because of the ageing population. That is why the health budget needs to increase by about eight or nine per cent a year, to match all that demand. There is an ex-Treasurer coughing in the background, but it is true; those demands exist, and we have to meet them. I had an interesting conversation with representatives of the AMA when we had our usual meeting. I actually meet them; they did not get to meet the former Minister for Health very often, but I meet them every month and go through issues, and that was one of the issues we went through. Mr R.H. Cook : Is it true that you don’t let staffers in on those meetings? Dr K.D. HAMES : No, not true. Kim Snowball was there at our meeting yesterday, and my staff was certainly there. To get back to the issue of the number of beds, that report came out two years ago, so it does not take into account the additional beds at Joondalup and Rockingham. I note that Australia wide, only 378 additional beds were made available in that time. Since then, we have made about 150 additional beds available, so we are well in front compared with other states, but we do need those further beds. We need the Midland hospital to open, which will double the number of beds out there. We need the Fiona Stanley Hospital to open, because the percentage occupancy is not satisfactory; 85 per cent is the ideal. I do not think there are too many places in the world that actually get to that, so 90 per cent is okay, but we are still at 95 per cent plus. We need to get those percentages down and the only way to do it is to have more beds. That means that we need beds that are empty; if all the beds are full, then when we have surges of patients coming in, we will not have the ability to cater for them, so we actually need beds that are staffed but do not have patients to allow for those surges. One thing that is helping us to mitigate that is the changes with the four-hour rule, which allows for a much more efficient use of those beds, and the government’s approximately $20 million funding for Silver Chain, which creates beds at home. That is one thing that the AMA has not counted in those numbers—the fact that we have created the equivalent of 500 additional beds at home. Mr R.H. Cook : But that’s not what they’re measuring, is it? Dr K.D. HAMES : No. They are not measuring those; they do not measure those, but they do not have that in any other state. It has impacted significantly on demand growth pressures in our hospitals because we have the equivalent of 500 patients at any one time who would otherwise be in hospital who are now being cared for by nurses and doctors in their home. I will wait for the supplementary question to finish my answer.
Mr T.R. Buswell : You’ve gone soft! Mr E.S. Ripper : Is this some new strategy? Dr K.D. HAMES : It is, Troy! It is really a difficult project. The reality is that that is when we needed those beds—in 2010. They are four years late, and it has created significant problems with the growth in demand that we are experiencing. I remind members that we have 2.5 per cent growth in demand as a result of growing population, we have four per cent growth in cost demand as a result of inflation and increased wages, and we have approximately two per cent growth in demand because of the ageing population. That is why the health budget needs to increase by about eight or nine per cent a year, to match all that demand. There is an ex-Treasurer coughing in the background, but it is true; those demands exist, and we have to meet them. I had an interesting conversation with representatives of the AMA when we had our usual meeting. I actually meet them; they did not get to meet the former Minister for Health very often, but I meet them every month and go through issues, and that was one of the issues we went through. Mr R.H. Cook : Is it true that you don’t let staffers in on those meetings? Dr K.D. HAMES : No, not true. Kim Snowball was there at our meeting yesterday, and my staff was certainly there. To get back to the issue of the number of beds, that report came out two years ago, so it does not take into account the additional beds at Joondalup and Rockingham. I note that Australia wide, only 378 additional beds were made available in that time. Since then, we have made about 150 additional beds available, so we are well in front compared with other states, but we do need those further beds. We need the Midland hospital to open, which will double the number of beds out there. We need the Fiona Stanley Hospital to open, because the percentage occupancy is not satisfactory; 85 per cent is the ideal. I do not think there are too many places in the world that actually get to that, so 90 per cent is okay, but we are still at 95 per cent plus. We need to get those percentages down and the only way to do it is to have more beds. That means that we need beds that are empty; if all the beds are full, then when we have surges of patients coming in, we will not have the ability to cater for them, so we actually need beds that are staffed but do not have patients to allow for those surges. One thing that is helping us to mitigate that is the changes with the four-hour rule, which allows for a much more efficient use of those beds, and the government’s approximately $20 million funding for Silver Chain, which creates beds at home. That is one thing that the AMA has not counted in those numbers—the fact that we have created the equivalent of 500 additional beds at home. Mr R.H. Cook : But that’s not what they’re measuring, is it? Dr K.D. HAMES : No. They are not measuring those; they do not measure those, but they do not have that in any other state. It has impacted significantly on demand growth pressures in our hospitals because we have the equivalent of 500 patients at any one time who would otherwise be in hospital who are now being cared for by nurses and doctors in their home. I will wait for the supplementary question to finish my answer.
Mr E.S. Ripper : Is this some new strategy? Dr K.D. HAMES : It is, Troy! It is really a difficult project. The reality is that that is when we needed those beds—in 2010. They are four years late, and it has created significant problems with the growth in demand that we are experiencing. I remind members that we have 2.5 per cent growth in demand as a result of growing population, we have four per cent growth in cost demand as a result of inflation and increased wages, and we have approximately two per cent growth in demand because of the ageing population. That is why the health budget needs to increase by about eight or nine per cent a year, to match all that demand. There is an ex-Treasurer coughing in the background, but it is true; those demands exist, and we have to meet them. I had an interesting conversation with representatives of the AMA when we had our usual meeting. I actually meet them; they did not get to meet the former Minister for Health very often, but I meet them every month and go through issues, and that was one of the issues we went through. Mr R.H. Cook : Is it true that you don’t let staffers in on those meetings? Dr K.D. HAMES : No, not true. Kim Snowball was there at our meeting yesterday, and my staff was certainly there. To get back to the issue of the number of beds, that report came out two years ago, so it does not take into account the additional beds at Joondalup and Rockingham. I note that Australia wide, only 378 additional beds were made available in that time. Since then, we have made about 150 additional beds available, so we are well in front compared with other states, but we do need those further beds. We need the Midland hospital to open, which will double the number of beds out there. We need the Fiona Stanley Hospital to open, because the percentage occupancy is not satisfactory; 85 per cent is the ideal. I do not think there are too many places in the world that actually get to that, so 90 per cent is okay, but we are still at 95 per cent plus. We need to get those percentages down and the only way to do it is to have more beds. That means that we need beds that are empty; if all the beds are full, then when we have surges of patients coming in, we will not have the ability to cater for them, so we actually need beds that are staffed but do not have patients to allow for those surges. One thing that is helping us to mitigate that is the changes with the four-hour rule, which allows for a much more efficient use of those beds, and the government’s approximately $20 million funding for Silver Chain, which creates beds at home. That is one thing that the AMA has not counted in those numbers—the fact that we have created the equivalent of 500 additional beds at home. Mr R.H. Cook : But that’s not what they’re measuring, is it? Dr K.D. HAMES : No. They are not measuring those; they do not measure those, but they do not have that in any other state. It has impacted significantly on demand growth pressures in our hospitals because we have the equivalent of 500 patients at any one time who would otherwise be in hospital who are now being cared for by nurses and doctors in their home. I will wait for the supplementary question to finish my answer.
Dr K.D. HAMES : It is, Troy! It is really a difficult project. The reality is that that is when we needed those beds—in 2010. They are four years late, and it has created significant problems with the growth in demand that we are experiencing. I remind members that we have 2.5 per cent growth in demand as a result of growing population, we have four per cent growth in cost demand as a result of inflation and increased wages, and we have approximately two per cent growth in demand because of the ageing population. That is why the health budget needs to increase by about eight or nine per cent a year, to match all that demand. There is an ex-Treasurer coughing in the background, but it is true; those demands exist, and we have to meet them. I had an interesting conversation with representatives of the AMA when we had our usual meeting. I actually meet them; they did not get to meet the former Minister for Health very often, but I meet them every month and go through issues, and that was one of the issues we went through. Mr R.H. Cook : Is it true that you don’t let staffers in on those meetings? Dr K.D. HAMES : No, not true. Kim Snowball was there at our meeting yesterday, and my staff was certainly there. To get back to the issue of the number of beds, that report came out two years ago, so it does not take into account the additional beds at Joondalup and Rockingham. I note that Australia wide, only 378 additional beds were made available in that time. Since then, we have made about 150 additional beds available, so we are well in front compared with other states, but we do need those further beds. We need the Midland hospital to open, which will double the number of beds out there. We need the Fiona Stanley Hospital to open, because the percentage occupancy is not satisfactory; 85 per cent is the ideal. I do not think there are too many places in the world that actually get to that, so 90 per cent is okay, but we are still at 95 per cent plus. We need to get those percentages down and the only way to do it is to have more beds. That means that we need beds that are empty; if all the beds are full, then when we have surges of patients coming in, we will not have the ability to cater for them, so we actually need beds that are staffed but do not have patients to allow for those surges. One thing that is helping us to mitigate that is the changes with the four-hour rule, which allows for a much more efficient use of those beds, and the government’s approximately $20 million funding for Silver Chain, which creates beds at home. That is one thing that the AMA has not counted in those numbers—the fact that we have created the equivalent of 500 additional beds at home. Mr R.H. Cook : But that’s not what they’re measuring, is it? Dr K.D. HAMES : No. They are not measuring those; they do not measure those, but they do not have that in any other state. It has impacted significantly on demand growth pressures in our hospitals because we have the equivalent of 500 patients at any one time who would otherwise be in hospital who are now being cared for by nurses and doctors in their home. I will wait for the supplementary question to finish my answer.
The reality is that that is when we needed those beds—in 2010. They are four years late, and it has created significant problems with the growth in demand that we are experiencing. I remind members that we have 2.5 per cent growth in demand as a result of growing population, we have four per cent growth in cost demand as a result of inflation and increased wages, and we have approximately two per cent growth in demand because of the ageing population. That is why the health budget needs to increase by about eight or nine per cent a year, to match all that demand. There is an ex-Treasurer coughing in the background, but it is true; those demands exist, and we have to meet them. I had an interesting conversation with representatives of the AMA when we had our usual meeting. I actually meet them; they did not get to meet the former Minister for Health very often, but I meet them every month and go through issues, and that was one of the issues we went through. Mr R.H. Cook : Is it true that you don’t let staffers in on those meetings? Dr K.D. HAMES : No, not true. Kim Snowball was there at our meeting yesterday, and my staff was certainly there. To get back to the issue of the number of beds, that report came out two years ago, so it does not take into account the additional beds at Joondalup and Rockingham. I note that Australia wide, only 378 additional beds were made available in that time. Since then, we have made about 150 additional beds available, so we are well in front compared with other states, but we do need those further beds. We need the Midland hospital to open, which will double the number of beds out there. We need the Fiona Stanley Hospital to open, because the percentage occupancy is not satisfactory; 85 per cent is the ideal. I do not think there are too many places in the world that actually get to that, so 90 per cent is okay, but we are still at 95 per cent plus. We need to get those percentages down and the only way to do it is to have more beds. That means that we need beds that are empty; if all the beds are full, then when we have surges of patients coming in, we will not have the ability to cater for them, so we actually need beds that are staffed but do not have patients to allow for those surges. One thing that is helping us to mitigate that is the changes with the four-hour rule, which allows for a much more efficient use of those beds, and the government’s approximately $20 million funding for Silver Chain, which creates beds at home. That is one thing that the AMA has not counted in those numbers—the fact that we have created the equivalent of 500 additional beds at home. Mr R.H. Cook : But that’s not what they’re measuring, is it? Dr K.D. HAMES : No. They are not measuring those; they do not measure those, but they do not have that in any other state. It has impacted significantly on demand growth pressures in our hospitals because we have the equivalent of 500 patients at any one time who would otherwise be in hospital who are now being cared for by nurses and doctors in their home. I will wait for the supplementary question to finish my answer.
I had an interesting conversation with representatives of the AMA when we had our usual meeting. I actually meet them; they did not get to meet the former Minister for Health very often, but I meet them every month and go through issues, and that was one of the issues we went through. Mr R.H. Cook : Is it true that you don’t let staffers in on those meetings? Dr K.D. HAMES : No, not true. Kim Snowball was there at our meeting yesterday, and my staff was certainly there. To get back to the issue of the number of beds, that report came out two years ago, so it does not take into account the additional beds at Joondalup and Rockingham. I note that Australia wide, only 378 additional beds were made available in that time. Since then, we have made about 150 additional beds available, so we are well in front compared with other states, but we do need those further beds. We need the Midland hospital to open, which will double the number of beds out there. We need the Fiona Stanley Hospital to open, because the percentage occupancy is not satisfactory; 85 per cent is the ideal. I do not think there are too many places in the world that actually get to that, so 90 per cent is okay, but we are still at 95 per cent plus. We need to get those percentages down and the only way to do it is to have more beds. That means that we need beds that are empty; if all the beds are full, then when we have surges of patients coming in, we will not have the ability to cater for them, so we actually need beds that are staffed but do not have patients to allow for those surges. One thing that is helping us to mitigate that is the changes with the four-hour rule, which allows for a much more efficient use of those beds, and the government’s approximately $20 million funding for Silver Chain, which creates beds at home. That is one thing that the AMA has not counted in those numbers—the fact that we have created the equivalent of 500 additional beds at home. Mr R.H. Cook : But that’s not what they’re measuring, is it? Dr K.D. HAMES : No. They are not measuring those; they do not measure those, but they do not have that in any other state. It has impacted significantly on demand growth pressures in our hospitals because we have the equivalent of 500 patients at any one time who would otherwise be in hospital who are now being cared for by nurses and doctors in their home. I will wait for the supplementary question to finish my answer.
Mr R.H. Cook : Is it true that you don’t let staffers in on those meetings? Dr K.D. HAMES : No, not true. Kim Snowball was there at our meeting yesterday, and my staff was certainly there. To get back to the issue of the number of beds, that report came out two years ago, so it does not take into account the additional beds at Joondalup and Rockingham. I note that Australia wide, only 378 additional beds were made available in that time. Since then, we have made about 150 additional beds available, so we are well in front compared with other states, but we do need those further beds. We need the Midland hospital to open, which will double the number of beds out there. We need the Fiona Stanley Hospital to open, because the percentage occupancy is not satisfactory; 85 per cent is the ideal. I do not think there are too many places in the world that actually get to that, so 90 per cent is okay, but we are still at 95 per cent plus. We need to get those percentages down and the only way to do it is to have more beds. That means that we need beds that are empty; if all the beds are full, then when we have surges of patients coming in, we will not have the ability to cater for them, so we actually need beds that are staffed but do not have patients to allow for those surges. One thing that is helping us to mitigate that is the changes with the four-hour rule, which allows for a much more efficient use of those beds, and the government’s approximately $20 million funding for Silver Chain, which creates beds at home. That is one thing that the AMA has not counted in those numbers—the fact that we have created the equivalent of 500 additional beds at home. Mr R.H. Cook : But that’s not what they’re measuring, is it? Dr K.D. HAMES : No. They are not measuring those; they do not measure those, but they do not have that in any other state. It has impacted significantly on demand growth pressures in our hospitals because we have the equivalent of 500 patients at any one time who would otherwise be in hospital who are now being cared for by nurses and doctors in their home. I will wait for the supplementary question to finish my answer.
Dr K.D. HAMES : No, not true. Kim Snowball was there at our meeting yesterday, and my staff was certainly there. To get back to the issue of the number of beds, that report came out two years ago, so it does not take into account the additional beds at Joondalup and Rockingham. I note that Australia wide, only 378 additional beds were made available in that time. Since then, we have made about 150 additional beds available, so we are well in front compared with other states, but we do need those further beds. We need the Midland hospital to open, which will double the number of beds out there. We need the Fiona Stanley Hospital to open, because the percentage occupancy is not satisfactory; 85 per cent is the ideal. I do not think there are too many places in the world that actually get to that, so 90 per cent is okay, but we are still at 95 per cent plus. We need to get those percentages down and the only way to do it is to have more beds. That means that we need beds that are empty; if all the beds are full, then when we have surges of patients coming in, we will not have the ability to cater for them, so we actually need beds that are staffed but do not have patients to allow for those surges. One thing that is helping us to mitigate that is the changes with the four-hour rule, which allows for a much more efficient use of those beds, and the government’s approximately $20 million funding for Silver Chain, which creates beds at home. That is one thing that the AMA has not counted in those numbers—the fact that we have created the equivalent of 500 additional beds at home. Mr R.H. Cook : But that’s not what they’re measuring, is it? Dr K.D. HAMES : No. They are not measuring those; they do not measure those, but they do not have that in any other state. It has impacted significantly on demand growth pressures in our hospitals because we have the equivalent of 500 patients at any one time who would otherwise be in hospital who are now being cared for by nurses and doctors in their home. I will wait for the supplementary question to finish my answer.
To get back to the issue of the number of beds, that report came out two years ago, so it does not take into account the additional beds at Joondalup and Rockingham. I note that Australia wide, only 378 additional beds were made available in that time. Since then, we have made about 150 additional beds available, so we are well in front compared with other states, but we do need those further beds. We need the Midland hospital to open, which will double the number of beds out there. We need the Fiona Stanley Hospital to open, because the percentage occupancy is not satisfactory; 85 per cent is the ideal. I do not think there are too many places in the world that actually get to that, so 90 per cent is okay, but we are still at 95 per cent plus. We need to get those percentages down and the only way to do it is to have more beds. That means that we need beds that are empty; if all the beds are full, then when we have surges of patients coming in, we will not have the ability to cater for them, so we actually need beds that are staffed but do not have patients to allow for those surges. One thing that is helping us to mitigate that is the changes with the four-hour rule, which allows for a much more efficient use of those beds, and the government’s approximately $20 million funding for Silver Chain, which creates beds at home. That is one thing that the AMA has not counted in those numbers—the fact that we have created the equivalent of 500 additional beds at home. Mr R.H. Cook : But that’s not what they’re measuring, is it? Dr K.D. HAMES : No. They are not measuring those; they do not measure those, but they do not have that in any other state. It has impacted significantly on demand growth pressures in our hospitals because we have the equivalent of 500 patients at any one time who would otherwise be in hospital who are now being cared for by nurses and doctors in their home. I will wait for the supplementary question to finish my answer.
Mr R.H. Cook : But that’s not what they’re measuring, is it? Dr K.D. HAMES : No. They are not measuring those; they do not measure those, but they do not have that in any other state. It has impacted significantly on demand growth pressures in our hospitals because we have the equivalent of 500 patients at any one time who would otherwise be in hospital who are now being cared for by nurses and doctors in their home. I will wait for the supplementary question to finish my answer.
Dr K.D. HAMES : No. They are not measuring those; they do not measure those, but they do not have that in any other state. It has impacted significantly on demand growth pressures in our hospitals because we have the equivalent of 500 patients at any one time who would otherwise be in hospital who are now being cared for by nurses and doctors in their home. I will wait for the supplementary question to finish my answer.
(1) Does the minister accept the AMA’s claim that, when hospitals operate above 85 per cent capacity, they compromise patient safety? (2) If so, when will the minister ensure that our hospitals operate below 85 per cent capacity given that, as of today, six major Perth hospitals are operating well in excess of 90 per cent? Dr K.D. HAMES replied: I thank the member for the question; I am sure he must have been getting out my old press releases! (1)–(2) I got stuck into the previous Minister for Health so many times because our hospitals were running at 95 per cent to 105 per cent capacity. What have we done since we have been in government? We have made a further 150 beds available since that time—in fact, 150 beds since that report came out. Mr E.S. Ripper : So it’s all okay, is it? Dr K.D. HAMES : Well, it is not okay, and the Leader of the Opposition knows as well as I do that it is not okay. The reality is that we need more beds. The reality is that, if we had had Fiona Stanley Hospital running in 2010, as the previous government said it would be, it would not be an issue; but I have to say, I do not really blame the opposition. I know the complexities involved in getting a hospital like that up off the ground and built and the time factor that it takes, so it is understandable — Mr T.R. Buswell : You’ve gone soft! Mr E.S. Ripper : Is this some new strategy? Dr K.D. HAMES : It is, Troy! It is really a difficult project. The reality is that that is when we needed those beds—in 2010. They are four years late, and it has created significant problems with the growth in demand that we are experiencing. I remind members that we have 2.5 per cent growth in demand as a result of growing population, we have four per cent growth in cost demand as a result of inflation and increased wages, and we have approximately two per cent growth in demand because of the ageing population. That is why the health budget needs to increase by about eight or nine per cent a year, to match all that demand. There is an ex-Treasurer coughing in the background, but it is true; those demands exist, and we have to meet them. I had an interesting conversation with representatives of the AMA when we had our usual meeting. I actually meet them; they did not get to meet the former Minister for Health very often, but I meet them every month and go through issues, and that was one of the issues we went through. Mr R.H. Cook : Is it true that you don’t let staffers in on those meetings? Dr K.D. HAMES : No, not true. Kim Snowball was there at our meeting yesterday, and my staff was certainly there. To get back to the issue of the number of beds, that report came out two years ago, so it does not take into account the additional beds at Joondalup and Rockingham. I note that Australia wide, only 378 additional beds were made available in that time. Since then, we have made about 150 additional beds available, so we are well in front compared with other states, but we do need those further beds. We need the Midland hospital to open, which will double the number of beds out there. We need the Fiona Stanley Hospital to open, because the percentage occupancy is not satisfactory; 85 per cent is the ideal. I do not think there are too many places in the world that actually get to that, so 90 per cent is okay, but we are still at 95 per cent plus. We need to get those percentages down and the only way to do it is to have more beds. That means that we need beds that are empty; if all the beds are full, then when we have surges of patients coming in, we will not have the ability to cater for them, so we actually need beds that are staffed but do not have patients to allow for those surges. One thing that is helping us to mitigate that is the changes with the four-hour rule, which allows for a much more efficient use of those beds, and the government’s approximately $20 million funding for Silver Chain, which creates beds at home. That is one thing that the AMA has not counted in those numbers—the fact that we have created the equivalent of 500 additional beds at home. Mr R.H. Cook : But that’s not what they’re measuring, is it? Dr K.D. HAMES : No. They are not measuring those; they do not measure those, but they do not have that in any other state. It has impacted significantly on demand growth pressures in our hospitals because we have the equivalent of 500 patients at any one time who would otherwise be in hospital who are now being cared for by nurses and doctors in their home. I will wait for the supplementary question to finish my answer.
(2) If so, when will the minister ensure that our hospitals operate below 85 per cent capacity given that, as of today, six major Perth hospitals are operating well in excess of 90 per cent? Dr K.D. HAMES replied: I thank the member for the question; I am sure he must have been getting out my old press releases! (1)–(2) I got stuck into the previous Minister for Health so many times because our hospitals were running at 95 per cent to 105 per cent capacity. What have we done since we have been in government? We have made a further 150 beds available since that time—in fact, 150 beds since that report came out. Mr E.S. Ripper : So it’s all okay, is it? Dr K.D. HAMES : Well, it is not okay, and the Leader of the Opposition knows as well as I do that it is not okay. The reality is that we need more beds. The reality is that, if we had had Fiona Stanley Hospital running in 2010, as the previous government said it would be, it would not be an issue; but I have to say, I do not really blame the opposition. I know the complexities involved in getting a hospital like that up off the ground and built and the time factor that it takes, so it is understandable — Mr T.R. Buswell : You’ve gone soft! Mr E.S. Ripper : Is this some new strategy? Dr K.D. HAMES : It is, Troy! It is really a difficult project. The reality is that that is when we needed those beds—in 2010. They are four years late, and it has created significant problems with the growth in demand that we are experiencing. I remind members that we have 2.5 per cent growth in demand as a result of growing population, we have four per cent growth in cost demand as a result of inflation and increased wages, and we have approximately two per cent growth in demand because of the ageing population. That is why the health budget needs to increase by about eight or nine per cent a year, to match all that demand. There is an ex-Treasurer coughing in the background, but it is true; those demands exist, and we have to meet them. I had an interesting conversation with representatives of the AMA when we had our usual meeting. I actually meet them; they did not get to meet the former Minister for Health very often, but I meet them every month and go through issues, and that was one of the issues we went through. Mr R.H. Cook : Is it true that you don’t let staffers in on those meetings? Dr K.D. HAMES : No, not true. Kim Snowball was there at our meeting yesterday, and my staff was certainly there. To get back to the issue of the number of beds, that report came out two years ago, so it does not take into account the additional beds at Joondalup and Rockingham. I note that Australia wide, only 378 additional beds were made available in that time. Since then, we have made about 150 additional beds available, so we are well in front compared with other states, but we do need those further beds. We need the Midland hospital to open, which will double the number of beds out there. We need the Fiona Stanley Hospital to open, because the percentage occupancy is not satisfactory; 85 per cent is the ideal. I do not think there are too many places in the world that actually get to that, so 90 per cent is okay, but we are still at 95 per cent plus. We need to get those percentages down and the only way to do it is to have more beds. That means that we need beds that are empty; if all the beds are full, then when we have surges of patients coming in, we will not have the ability to cater for them, so we actually need beds that are staffed but do not have patients to allow for those surges. One thing that is helping us to mitigate that is the changes with the four-hour rule, which allows for a much more efficient use of those beds, and the government’s approximately $20 million funding for Silver Chain, which creates beds at home. That is one thing that the AMA has not counted in those numbers—the fact that we have created the equivalent of 500 additional beds at home. Mr R.H. Cook : But that’s not what they’re measuring, is it? Dr K.D. HAMES : No. They are not measuring those; they do not measure those, but they do not have that in any other state. It has impacted significantly on demand growth pressures in our hospitals because we have the equivalent of 500 patients at any one time who would otherwise be in hospital who are now being cared for by nurses and doctors in their home. I will wait for the supplementary question to finish my answer.
Dr K.D. HAMES replied: I thank the member for the question; I am sure he must have been getting out my old press releases! (1)–(2) I got stuck into the previous Minister for Health so many times because our hospitals were running at 95 per cent to 105 per cent capacity. What have we done since we have been in government? We have made a further 150 beds available since that time—in fact, 150 beds since that report came out. Mr E.S. Ripper : So it’s all okay, is it? Dr K.D. HAMES : Well, it is not okay, and the Leader of the Opposition knows as well as I do that it is not okay. The reality is that we need more beds. The reality is that, if we had had Fiona Stanley Hospital running in 2010, as the previous government said it would be, it would not be an issue; but I have to say, I do not really blame the opposition. I know the complexities involved in getting a hospital like that up off the ground and built and the time factor that it takes, so it is understandable — Mr T.R. Buswell : You’ve gone soft! Mr E.S. Ripper : Is this some new strategy? Dr K.D. HAMES : It is, Troy! It is really a difficult project. The reality is that that is when we needed those beds—in 2010. They are four years late, and it has created significant problems with the growth in demand that we are experiencing. I remind members that we have 2.5 per cent growth in demand as a result of growing population, we have four per cent growth in cost demand as a result of inflation and increased wages, and we have approximately two per cent growth in demand because of the ageing population. That is why the health budget needs to increase by about eight or nine per cent a year, to match all that demand. There is an ex-Treasurer coughing in the background, but it is true; those demands exist, and we have to meet them. I had an interesting conversation with representatives of the AMA when we had our usual meeting. I actually meet them; they did not get to meet the former Minister for Health very often, but I meet them every month and go through issues, and that was one of the issues we went through. Mr R.H. Cook : Is it true that you don’t let staffers in on those meetings? Dr K.D. HAMES : No, not true. Kim Snowball was there at our meeting yesterday, and my staff was certainly there. To get back to the issue of the number of beds, that report came out two years ago, so it does not take into account the additional beds at Joondalup and Rockingham. I note that Australia wide, only 378 additional beds were made available in that time. Since then, we have made about 150 additional beds available, so we are well in front compared with other states, but we do need those further beds. We need the Midland hospital to open, which will double the number of beds out there. We need the Fiona Stanley Hospital to open, because the percentage occupancy is not satisfactory; 85 per cent is the ideal. I do not think there are too many places in the world that actually get to that, so 90 per cent is okay, but we are still at 95 per cent plus. We need to get those percentages down and the only way to do it is to have more beds. That means that we need beds that are empty; if all the beds are full, then when we have surges of patients coming in, we will not have the ability to cater for them, so we actually need beds that are staffed but do not have patients to allow for those surges. One thing that is helping us to mitigate that is the changes with the four-hour rule, which allows for a much more efficient use of those beds, and the government’s approximately $20 million funding for Silver Chain, which creates beds at home. That is one thing that the AMA has not counted in those numbers—the fact that we have created the equivalent of 500 additional beds at home. Mr R.H. Cook : But that’s not what they’re measuring, is it? Dr K.D. HAMES : No. They are not measuring those; they do not measure those, but they do not have that in any other state. It has impacted significantly on demand growth pressures in our hospitals because we have the equivalent of 500 patients at any one time who would otherwise be in hospital who are now being cared for by nurses and doctors in their home. I will wait for the supplementary question to finish my answer.
I thank the member for the question; I am sure he must have been getting out my old press releases! (1)–(2) I got stuck into the previous Minister for Health so many times because our hospitals were running at 95 per cent to 105 per cent capacity. What have we done since we have been in government? We have made a further 150 beds available since that time—in fact, 150 beds since that report came out. Mr E.S. Ripper : So it’s all okay, is it? Dr K.D. HAMES : Well, it is not okay, and the Leader of the Opposition knows as well as I do that it is not okay. The reality is that we need more beds. The reality is that, if we had had Fiona Stanley Hospital running in 2010, as the previous government said it would be, it would not be an issue; but I have to say, I do not really blame the opposition. I know the complexities involved in getting a hospital like that up off the ground and built and the time factor that it takes, so it is understandable — Mr T.R. Buswell : You’ve gone soft! Mr E.S. Ripper : Is this some new strategy? Dr K.D. HAMES : It is, Troy! It is really a difficult project. The reality is that that is when we needed those beds—in 2010. They are four years late, and it has created significant problems with the growth in demand that we are experiencing. I remind members that we have 2.5 per cent growth in demand as a result of growing population, we have four per cent growth in cost demand as a result of inflation and increased wages, and we have approximately two per cent growth in demand because of the ageing population. That is why the health budget needs to increase by about eight or nine per cent a year, to match all that demand. There is an ex-Treasurer coughing in the background, but it is true; those demands exist, and we have to meet them. I had an interesting conversation with representatives of the AMA when we had our usual meeting. I actually meet them; they did not get to meet the former Minister for Health very often, but I meet them every month and go through issues, and that was one of the issues we went through. Mr R.H. Cook : Is it true that you don’t let staffers in on those meetings? Dr K.D. HAMES : No, not true. Kim Snowball was there at our meeting yesterday, and my staff was certainly there. To get back to the issue of the number of beds, that report came out two years ago, so it does not take into account the additional beds at Joondalup and Rockingham. I note that Australia wide, only 378 additional beds were made available in that time. Since then, we have made about 150 additional beds available, so we are well in front compared with other states, but we do need those further beds. We need the Midland hospital to open, which will double the number of beds out there. We need the Fiona Stanley Hospital to open, because the percentage occupancy is not satisfactory; 85 per cent is the ideal. I do not think there are too many places in the world that actually get to that, so 90 per cent is okay, but we are still at 95 per cent plus. We need to get those percentages down and the only way to do it is to have more beds. That means that we need beds that are empty; if all the beds are full, then when we have surges of patients coming in, we will not have the ability to cater for them, so we actually need beds that are staffed but do not have patients to allow for those surges. One thing that is helping us to mitigate that is the changes with the four-hour rule, which allows for a much more efficient use of those beds, and the government’s approximately $20 million funding for Silver Chain, which creates beds at home. That is one thing that the AMA has not counted in those numbers—the fact that we have created the equivalent of 500 additional beds at home. Mr R.H. Cook : But that’s not what they’re measuring, is it? Dr K.D. HAMES : No. They are not measuring those; they do not measure those, but they do not have that in any other state. It has impacted significantly on demand growth pressures in our hospitals because we have the equivalent of 500 patients at any one time who would otherwise be in hospital who are now being cared for by nurses and doctors in their home. I will wait for the supplementary question to finish my answer.
(1)–(2) I got stuck into the previous Minister for Health so many times because our hospitals were running at 95 per cent to 105 per cent capacity. What have we done since we have been in government? We have made a further 150 beds available since that time—in fact, 150 beds since that report came out. Mr E.S. Ripper : So it’s all okay, is it? Dr K.D. HAMES : Well, it is not okay, and the Leader of the Opposition knows as well as I do that it is not okay. The reality is that we need more beds. The reality is that, if we had had Fiona Stanley Hospital running in 2010, as the previous government said it would be, it would not be an issue; but I have to say, I do not really blame the opposition. I know the complexities involved in getting a hospital like that up off the ground and built and the time factor that it takes, so it is understandable — Mr T.R. Buswell : You’ve gone soft! Mr E.S. Ripper : Is this some new strategy? Dr K.D. HAMES : It is, Troy! It is really a difficult project. The reality is that that is when we needed those beds—in 2010. They are four years late, and it has created significant problems with the growth in demand that we are experiencing. I remind members that we have 2.5 per cent growth in demand as a result of growing population, we have four per cent growth in cost demand as a result of inflation and increased wages, and we have approximately two per cent growth in demand because of the ageing population. That is why the health budget needs to increase by about eight or nine per cent a year, to match all that demand. There is an ex-Treasurer coughing in the background, but it is true; those demands exist, and we have to meet them. I had an interesting conversation with representatives of the AMA when we had our usual meeting. I actually meet them; they did not get to meet the former Minister for Health very often, but I meet them every month and go through issues, and that was one of the issues we went through. Mr R.H. Cook : Is it true that you don’t let staffers in on those meetings? Dr K.D. HAMES : No, not true. Kim Snowball was there at our meeting yesterday, and my staff was certainly there. To get back to the issue of the number of beds, that report came out two years ago, so it does not take into account the additional beds at Joondalup and Rockingham. I note that Australia wide, only 378 additional beds were made available in that time. Since then, we have made about 150 additional beds available, so we are well in front compared with other states, but we do need those further beds. We need the Midland hospital to open, which will double the number of beds out there. We need the Fiona Stanley Hospital to open, because the percentage occupancy is not satisfactory; 85 per cent is the ideal. I do not think there are too many places in the world that actually get to that, so 90 per cent is okay, but we are still at 95 per cent plus. We need to get those percentages down and the only way to do it is to have more beds. That means that we need beds that are empty; if all the beds are full, then when we have surges of patients coming in, we will not have the ability to cater for them, so we actually need beds that are staffed but do not have patients to allow for those surges. One thing that is helping us to mitigate that is the changes with the four-hour rule, which allows for a much more efficient use of those beds, and the government’s approximately $20 million funding for Silver Chain, which creates beds at home. That is one thing that the AMA has not counted in those numbers—the fact that we have created the equivalent of 500 additional beds at home. Mr R.H. Cook : But that’s not what they’re measuring, is it? Dr K.D. HAMES : No. They are not measuring those; they do not measure those, but they do not have that in any other state. It has impacted significantly on demand growth pressures in our hospitals because we have the equivalent of 500 patients at any one time who would otherwise be in hospital who are now being cared for by nurses and doctors in their home. I will wait for the supplementary question to finish my answer.
Mr E.S. Ripper : So it’s all okay, is it? Dr K.D. HAMES : Well, it is not okay, and the Leader of the Opposition knows as well as I do that it is not okay. The reality is that we need more beds. The reality is that, if we had had Fiona Stanley Hospital running in 2010, as the previous government said it would be, it would not be an issue; but I have to say, I do not really blame the opposition. I know the complexities involved in getting a hospital like that up off the ground and built and the time factor that it takes, so it is understandable — Mr T.R. Buswell : You’ve gone soft! Mr E.S. Ripper : Is this some new strategy? Dr K.D. HAMES : It is, Troy! It is really a difficult project. The reality is that that is when we needed those beds—in 2010. They are four years late, and it has created significant problems with the growth in demand that we are experiencing. I remind members that we have 2.5 per cent growth in demand as a result of growing population, we have four per cent growth in cost demand as a result of inflation and increased wages, and we have approximately two per cent growth in demand because of the ageing population. That is why the health budget needs to increase by about eight or nine per cent a year, to match all that demand. There is an ex-Treasurer coughing in the background, but it is true; those demands exist, and we have to meet them. I had an interesting conversation with representatives of the AMA when we had our usual meeting. I actually meet them; they did not get to meet the former Minister for Health very often, but I meet them every month and go through issues, and that was one of the issues we went through. Mr R.H. Cook : Is it true that you don’t let staffers in on those meetings? Dr K.D. HAMES : No, not true. Kim Snowball was there at our meeting yesterday, and my staff was certainly there. To get back to the issue of the number of beds, that report came out two years ago, so it does not take into account the additional beds at Joondalup and Rockingham. I note that Australia wide, only 378 additional beds were made available in that time. Since then, we have made about 150 additional beds available, so we are well in front compared with other states, but we do need those further beds. We need the Midland hospital to open, which will double the number of beds out there. We need the Fiona Stanley Hospital to open, because the percentage occupancy is not satisfactory; 85 per cent is the ideal. I do not think there are too many places in the world that actually get to that, so 90 per cent is okay, but we are still at 95 per cent plus. We need to get those percentages down and the only way to do it is to have more beds. That means that we need beds that are empty; if all the beds are full, then when we have surges of patients coming in, we will not have the ability to cater for them, so we actually need beds that are staffed but do not have patients to allow for those surges. One thing that is helping us to mitigate that is the changes with the four-hour rule, which allows for a much more efficient use of those beds, and the government’s approximately $20 million funding for Silver Chain, which creates beds at home. That is one thing that the AMA has not counted in those numbers—the fact that we have created the equivalent of 500 additional beds at home. Mr R.H. Cook : But that’s not what they’re measuring, is it? Dr K.D. HAMES : No. They are not measuring those; they do not measure those, but they do not have that in any other state. It has impacted significantly on demand growth pressures in our hospitals because we have the equivalent of 500 patients at any one time who would otherwise be in hospital who are now being cared for by nurses and doctors in their home. I will wait for the supplementary question to finish my answer.
Dr K.D. HAMES : Well, it is not okay, and the Leader of the Opposition knows as well as I do that it is not okay. The reality is that we need more beds. The reality is that, if we had had Fiona Stanley Hospital running in 2010, as the previous government said it would be, it would not be an issue; but I have to say, I do not really blame the opposition. I know the complexities involved in getting a hospital like that up off the ground and built and the time factor that it takes, so it is understandable — Mr T.R. Buswell : You’ve gone soft! Mr E.S. Ripper : Is this some new strategy? Dr K.D. HAMES : It is, Troy! It is really a difficult project. The reality is that that is when we needed those beds—in 2010. They are four years late, and it has created significant problems with the growth in demand that we are experiencing. I remind members that we have 2.5 per cent growth in demand as a result of growing population, we have four per cent growth in cost demand as a result of inflation and increased wages, and we have approximately two per cent growth in demand because of the ageing population. That is why the health budget needs to increase by about eight or nine per cent a year, to match all that demand. There is an ex-Treasurer coughing in the background, but it is true; those demands exist, and we have to meet them. I had an interesting conversation with representatives of the AMA when we had our usual meeting. I actually meet them; they did not get to meet the former Minister for Health very often, but I meet them every month and go through issues, and that was one of the issues we went through. Mr R.H. Cook : Is it true that you don’t let staffers in on those meetings? Dr K.D. HAMES : No, not true. Kim Snowball was there at our meeting yesterday, and my staff was certainly there. To get back to the issue of the number of beds, that report came out two years ago, so it does not take into account the additional beds at Joondalup and Rockingham. I note that Australia wide, only 378 additional beds were made available in that time. Since then, we have made about 150 additional beds available, so we are well in front compared with other states, but we do need those further beds. We need the Midland hospital to open, which will double the number of beds out there. We need the Fiona Stanley Hospital to open, because the percentage occupancy is not satisfactory; 85 per cent is the ideal. I do not think there are too many places in the world that actually get to that, so 90 per cent is okay, but we are still at 95 per cent plus. We need to get those percentages down and the only way to do it is to have more beds. That means that we need beds that are empty; if all the beds are full, then when we have surges of patients coming in, we will not have the ability to cater for them, so we actually need beds that are staffed but do not have patients to allow for those surges. One thing that is helping us to mitigate that is the changes with the four-hour rule, which allows for a much more efficient use of those beds, and the government’s approximately $20 million funding for Silver Chain, which creates beds at home. That is one thing that the AMA has not counted in those numbers—the fact that we have created the equivalent of 500 additional beds at home. Mr R.H. Cook : But that’s not what they’re measuring, is it? Dr K.D. HAMES : No. They are not measuring those; they do not measure those, but they do not have that in any other state. It has impacted significantly on demand growth pressures in our hospitals because we have the equivalent of 500 patients at any one time who would otherwise be in hospital who are now being cared for by nurses and doctors in their home. I will wait for the supplementary question to finish my answer.
Mr T.R. Buswell : You’ve gone soft! Mr E.S. Ripper : Is this some new strategy? Dr K.D. HAMES : It is, Troy! It is really a difficult project. The reality is that that is when we needed those beds—in 2010. They are four years late, and it has created significant problems with the growth in demand that we are experiencing. I remind members that we have 2.5 per cent growth in demand as a result of growing population, we have four per cent growth in cost demand as a result of inflation and increased wages, and we have approximately two per cent growth in demand because of the ageing population. That is why the health budget needs to increase by about eight or nine per cent a year, to match all that demand. There is an ex-Treasurer coughing in the background, but it is true; those demands exist, and we have to meet them. I had an interesting conversation with representatives of the AMA when we had our usual meeting. I actually meet them; they did not get to meet the former Minister for Health very often, but I meet them every month and go through issues, and that was one of the issues we went through. Mr R.H. Cook : Is it true that you don’t let staffers in on those meetings? Dr K.D. HAMES : No, not true. Kim Snowball was there at our meeting yesterday, and my staff was certainly there. To get back to the issue of the number of beds, that report came out two years ago, so it does not take into account the additional beds at Joondalup and Rockingham. I note that Australia wide, only 378 additional beds were made available in that time. Since then, we have made about 150 additional beds available, so we are well in front compared with other states, but we do need those further beds. We need the Midland hospital to open, which will double the number of beds out there. We need the Fiona Stanley Hospital to open, because the percentage occupancy is not satisfactory; 85 per cent is the ideal. I do not think there are too many places in the world that actually get to that, so 90 per cent is okay, but we are still at 95 per cent plus. We need to get those percentages down and the only way to do it is to have more beds. That means that we need beds that are empty; if all the beds are full, then when we have surges of patients coming in, we will not have the ability to cater for them, so we actually need beds that are staffed but do not have patients to allow for those surges. One thing that is helping us to mitigate that is the changes with the four-hour rule, which allows for a much more efficient use of those beds, and the government’s approximately $20 million funding for Silver Chain, which creates beds at home. That is one thing that the AMA has not counted in those numbers—the fact that we have created the equivalent of 500 additional beds at home. Mr R.H. Cook : But that’s not what they’re measuring, is it? Dr K.D. HAMES : No. They are not measuring those; they do not measure those, but they do not have that in any other state. It has impacted significantly on demand growth pressures in our hospitals because we have the equivalent of 500 patients at any one time who would otherwise be in hospital who are now being cared for by nurses and doctors in their home. I will wait for the supplementary question to finish my answer.
Mr E.S. Ripper : Is this some new strategy? Dr K.D. HAMES : It is, Troy! It is really a difficult project. The reality is that that is when we needed those beds—in 2010. They are four years late, and it has created significant problems with the growth in demand that we are experiencing. I remind members that we have 2.5 per cent growth in demand as a result of growing population, we have four per cent growth in cost demand as a result of inflation and increased wages, and we have approximately two per cent growth in demand because of the ageing population. That is why the health budget needs to increase by about eight or nine per cent a year, to match all that demand. There is an ex-Treasurer coughing in the background, but it is true; those demands exist, and we have to meet them. I had an interesting conversation with representatives of the AMA when we had our usual meeting. I actually meet them; they did not get to meet the former Minister for Health very often, but I meet them every month and go through issues, and that was one of the issues we went through. Mr R.H. Cook : Is it true that you don’t let staffers in on those meetings? Dr K.D. HAMES : No, not true. Kim Snowball was there at our meeting yesterday, and my staff was certainly there. To get back to the issue of the number of beds, that report came out two years ago, so it does not take into account the additional beds at Joondalup and Rockingham. I note that Australia wide, only 378 additional beds were made available in that time. Since then, we have made about 150 additional beds available, so we are well in front compared with other states, but we do need those further beds. We need the Midland hospital to open, which will double the number of beds out there. We need the Fiona Stanley Hospital to open, because the percentage occupancy is not satisfactory; 85 per cent is the ideal. I do not think there are too many places in the world that actually get to that, so 90 per cent is okay, but we are still at 95 per cent plus. We need to get those percentages down and the only way to do it is to have more beds. That means that we need beds that are empty; if all the beds are full, then when we have surges of patients coming in, we will not have the ability to cater for them, so we actually need beds that are staffed but do not have patients to allow for those surges. One thing that is helping us to mitigate that is the changes with the four-hour rule, which allows for a much more efficient use of those beds, and the government’s approximately $20 million funding for Silver Chain, which creates beds at home. That is one thing that the AMA has not counted in those numbers—the fact that we have created the equivalent of 500 additional beds at home. Mr R.H. Cook : But that’s not what they’re measuring, is it? Dr K.D. HAMES : No. They are not measuring those; they do not measure those, but they do not have that in any other state. It has impacted significantly on demand growth pressures in our hospitals because we have the equivalent of 500 patients at any one time who would otherwise be in hospital who are now being cared for by nurses and doctors in their home. I will wait for the supplementary question to finish my answer.
Dr K.D. HAMES : It is, Troy! It is really a difficult project. The reality is that that is when we needed those beds—in 2010. They are four years late, and it has created significant problems with the growth in demand that we are experiencing. I remind members that we have 2.5 per cent growth in demand as a result of growing population, we have four per cent growth in cost demand as a result of inflation and increased wages, and we have approximately two per cent growth in demand because of the ageing population. That is why the health budget needs to increase by about eight or nine per cent a year, to match all that demand. There is an ex-Treasurer coughing in the background, but it is true; those demands exist, and we have to meet them. I had an interesting conversation with representatives of the AMA when we had our usual meeting. I actually meet them; they did not get to meet the former Minister for Health very often, but I meet them every month and go through issues, and that was one of the issues we went through. Mr R.H. Cook : Is it true that you don’t let staffers in on those meetings? Dr K.D. HAMES : No, not true. Kim Snowball was there at our meeting yesterday, and my staff was certainly there. To get back to the issue of the number of beds, that report came out two years ago, so it does not take into account the additional beds at Joondalup and Rockingham. I note that Australia wide, only 378 additional beds were made available in that time. Since then, we have made about 150 additional beds available, so we are well in front compared with other states, but we do need those further beds. We need the Midland hospital to open, which will double the number of beds out there. We need the Fiona Stanley Hospital to open, because the percentage occupancy is not satisfactory; 85 per cent is the ideal. I do not think there are too many places in the world that actually get to that, so 90 per cent is okay, but we are still at 95 per cent plus. We need to get those percentages down and the only way to do it is to have more beds. That means that we need beds that are empty; if all the beds are full, then when we have surges of patients coming in, we will not have the ability to cater for them, so we actually need beds that are staffed but do not have patients to allow for those surges. One thing that is helping us to mitigate that is the changes with the four-hour rule, which allows for a much more efficient use of those beds, and the government’s approximately $20 million funding for Silver Chain, which creates beds at home. That is one thing that the AMA has not counted in those numbers—the fact that we have created the equivalent of 500 additional beds at home. Mr R.H. Cook : But that’s not what they’re measuring, is it? Dr K.D. HAMES : No. They are not measuring those; they do not measure those, but they do not have that in any other state. It has impacted significantly on demand growth pressures in our hospitals because we have the equivalent of 500 patients at any one time who would otherwise be in hospital who are now being cared for by nurses and doctors in their home. I will wait for the supplementary question to finish my answer.
The reality is that that is when we needed those beds—in 2010. They are four years late, and it has created significant problems with the growth in demand that we are experiencing. I remind members that we have 2.5 per cent growth in demand as a result of growing population, we have four per cent growth in cost demand as a result of inflation and increased wages, and we have approximately two per cent growth in demand because of the ageing population. That is why the health budget needs to increase by about eight or nine per cent a year, to match all that demand. There is an ex-Treasurer coughing in the background, but it is true; those demands exist, and we have to meet them. I had an interesting conversation with representatives of the AMA when we had our usual meeting. I actually meet them; they did not get to meet the former Minister for Health very often, but I meet them every month and go through issues, and that was one of the issues we went through. Mr R.H. Cook : Is it true that you don’t let staffers in on those meetings? Dr K.D. HAMES : No, not true. Kim Snowball was there at our meeting yesterday, and my staff was certainly there. To get back to the issue of the number of beds, that report came out two years ago, so it does not take into account the additional beds at Joondalup and Rockingham. I note that Australia wide, only 378 additional beds were made available in that time. Since then, we have made about 150 additional beds available, so we are well in front compared with other states, but we do need those further beds. We need the Midland hospital to open, which will double the number of beds out there. We need the Fiona Stanley Hospital to open, because the percentage occupancy is not satisfactory; 85 per cent is the ideal. I do not think there are too many places in the world that actually get to that, so 90 per cent is okay, but we are still at 95 per cent plus. We need to get those percentages down and the only way to do it is to have more beds. That means that we need beds that are empty; if all the beds are full, then when we have surges of patients coming in, we will not have the ability to cater for them, so we actually need beds that are staffed but do not have patients to allow for those surges. One thing that is helping us to mitigate that is the changes with the four-hour rule, which allows for a much more efficient use of those beds, and the government’s approximately $20 million funding for Silver Chain, which creates beds at home. That is one thing that the AMA has not counted in those numbers—the fact that we have created the equivalent of 500 additional beds at home. Mr R.H. Cook : But that’s not what they’re measuring, is it? Dr K.D. HAMES : No. They are not measuring those; they do not measure those, but they do not have that in any other state. It has impacted significantly on demand growth pressures in our hospitals because we have the equivalent of 500 patients at any one time who would otherwise be in hospital who are now being cared for by nurses and doctors in their home. I will wait for the supplementary question to finish my answer.
I had an interesting conversation with representatives of the AMA when we had our usual meeting. I actually meet them; they did not get to meet the former Minister for Health very often, but I meet them every month and go through issues, and that was one of the issues we went through. Mr R.H. Cook : Is it true that you don’t let staffers in on those meetings? Dr K.D. HAMES : No, not true. Kim Snowball was there at our meeting yesterday, and my staff was certainly there. To get back to the issue of the number of beds, that report came out two years ago, so it does not take into account the additional beds at Joondalup and Rockingham. I note that Australia wide, only 378 additional beds were made available in that time. Since then, we have made about 150 additional beds available, so we are well in front compared with other states, but we do need those further beds. We need the Midland hospital to open, which will double the number of beds out there. We need the Fiona Stanley Hospital to open, because the percentage occupancy is not satisfactory; 85 per cent is the ideal. I do not think there are too many places in the world that actually get to that, so 90 per cent is okay, but we are still at 95 per cent plus. We need to get those percentages down and the only way to do it is to have more beds. That means that we need beds that are empty; if all the beds are full, then when we have surges of patients coming in, we will not have the ability to cater for them, so we actually need beds that are staffed but do not have patients to allow for those surges. One thing that is helping us to mitigate that is the changes with the four-hour rule, which allows for a much more efficient use of those beds, and the government’s approximately $20 million funding for Silver Chain, which creates beds at home. That is one thing that the AMA has not counted in those numbers—the fact that we have created the equivalent of 500 additional beds at home. Mr R.H. Cook : But that’s not what they’re measuring, is it? Dr K.D. HAMES : No. They are not measuring those; they do not measure those, but they do not have that in any other state. It has impacted significantly on demand growth pressures in our hospitals because we have the equivalent of 500 patients at any one time who would otherwise be in hospital who are now being cared for by nurses and doctors in their home. I will wait for the supplementary question to finish my answer.
Mr R.H. Cook : Is it true that you don’t let staffers in on those meetings? Dr K.D. HAMES : No, not true. Kim Snowball was there at our meeting yesterday, and my staff was certainly there. To get back to the issue of the number of beds, that report came out two years ago, so it does not take into account the additional beds at Joondalup and Rockingham. I note that Australia wide, only 378 additional beds were made available in that time. Since then, we have made about 150 additional beds available, so we are well in front compared with other states, but we do need those further beds. We need the Midland hospital to open, which will double the number of beds out there. We need the Fiona Stanley Hospital to open, because the percentage occupancy is not satisfactory; 85 per cent is the ideal. I do not think there are too many places in the world that actually get to that, so 90 per cent is okay, but we are still at 95 per cent plus. We need to get those percentages down and the only way to do it is to have more beds. That means that we need beds that are empty; if all the beds are full, then when we have surges of patients coming in, we will not have the ability to cater for them, so we actually need beds that are staffed but do not have patients to allow for those surges. One thing that is helping us to mitigate that is the changes with the four-hour rule, which allows for a much more efficient use of those beds, and the government’s approximately $20 million funding for Silver Chain, which creates beds at home. That is one thing that the AMA has not counted in those numbers—the fact that we have created the equivalent of 500 additional beds at home. Mr R.H. Cook : But that’s not what they’re measuring, is it? Dr K.D. HAMES : No. They are not measuring those; they do not measure those, but they do not have that in any other state. It has impacted significantly on demand growth pressures in our hospitals because we have the equivalent of 500 patients at any one time who would otherwise be in hospital who are now being cared for by nurses and doctors in their home. I will wait for the supplementary question to finish my answer.
Dr K.D. HAMES : No, not true. Kim Snowball was there at our meeting yesterday, and my staff was certainly there. To get back to the issue of the number of beds, that report came out two years ago, so it does not take into account the additional beds at Joondalup and Rockingham. I note that Australia wide, only 378 additional beds were made available in that time. Since then, we have made about 150 additional beds available, so we are well in front compared with other states, but we do need those further beds. We need the Midland hospital to open, which will double the number of beds out there. We need the Fiona Stanley Hospital to open, because the percentage occupancy is not satisfactory; 85 per cent is the ideal. I do not think there are too many places in the world that actually get to that, so 90 per cent is okay, but we are still at 95 per cent plus. We need to get those percentages down and the only way to do it is to have more beds. That means that we need beds that are empty; if all the beds are full, then when we have surges of patients coming in, we will not have the ability to cater for them, so we actually need beds that are staffed but do not have patients to allow for those surges. One thing that is helping us to mitigate that is the changes with the four-hour rule, which allows for a much more efficient use of those beds, and the government’s approximately $20 million funding for Silver Chain, which creates beds at home. That is one thing that the AMA has not counted in those numbers—the fact that we have created the equivalent of 500 additional beds at home. Mr R.H. Cook : But that’s not what they’re measuring, is it? Dr K.D. HAMES : No. They are not measuring those; they do not measure those, but they do not have that in any other state. It has impacted significantly on demand growth pressures in our hospitals because we have the equivalent of 500 patients at any one time who would otherwise be in hospital who are now being cared for by nurses and doctors in their home. I will wait for the supplementary question to finish my answer.
To get back to the issue of the number of beds, that report came out two years ago, so it does not take into account the additional beds at Joondalup and Rockingham. I note that Australia wide, only 378 additional beds were made available in that time. Since then, we have made about 150 additional beds available, so we are well in front compared with other states, but we do need those further beds. We need the Midland hospital to open, which will double the number of beds out there. We need the Fiona Stanley Hospital to open, because the percentage occupancy is not satisfactory; 85 per cent is the ideal. I do not think there are too many places in the world that actually get to that, so 90 per cent is okay, but we are still at 95 per cent plus. We need to get those percentages down and the only way to do it is to have more beds. That means that we need beds that are empty; if all the beds are full, then when we have surges of patients coming in, we will not have the ability to cater for them, so we actually need beds that are staffed but do not have patients to allow for those surges. One thing that is helping us to mitigate that is the changes with the four-hour rule, which allows for a much more efficient use of those beds, and the government’s approximately $20 million funding for Silver Chain, which creates beds at home. That is one thing that the AMA has not counted in those numbers—the fact that we have created the equivalent of 500 additional beds at home. Mr R.H. Cook : But that’s not what they’re measuring, is it? Dr K.D. HAMES : No. They are not measuring those; they do not measure those, but they do not have that in any other state. It has impacted significantly on demand growth pressures in our hospitals because we have the equivalent of 500 patients at any one time who would otherwise be in hospital who are now being cared for by nurses and doctors in their home. I will wait for the supplementary question to finish my answer.
Mr R.H. Cook : But that’s not what they’re measuring, is it? Dr K.D. HAMES : No. They are not measuring those; they do not measure those, but they do not have that in any other state. It has impacted significantly on demand growth pressures in our hospitals because we have the equivalent of 500 patients at any one time who would otherwise be in hospital who are now being cared for by nurses and doctors in their home. I will wait for the supplementary question to finish my answer.
Dr K.D. HAMES : No. They are not measuring those; they do not measure those, but they do not have that in any other state. It has impacted significantly on demand growth pressures in our hospitals because we have the equivalent of 500 patients at any one time who would otherwise be in hospital who are now being cared for by nurses and doctors in their home. I will wait for the supplementary question to finish my answer.
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