❓ Mr. Cook questions the Health Minister about the impact of merging midwifery services into general nursing duties at Busselton District Hospital. The Minister defends the decision, citing efficient resource allocation and prioritizing midwifery unit needs.
AnsweredQoN 687Legislative Assembly
QuestionView source ↗
BUSSELTON DISTRICT HOSPITAL — MIDWIFERY WARD
I refer to the dedicated midwifery ward at Busselton District Hospital that was introduced at the beginning of 2008 by the Labor government and to the government’s decision to now cut the service by requiring highly trained midwife specialists to be merged into the general nursing tasks. (1) Considering the dedicated ward was introduced to give appropriate and dedicated care to new mothers and their babies, what effect will these cuts have now that the nurses’ time is spread even thinner, combining midwifery services with general duties? (2) If a midwife is required to administer pain relief to a general patient and she is then required to go to the birthing suite, which patient will have preference? (3) Why does the minister not believe the needs of pregnant and nursing mothers in the Busselton region are important enough to warrant a dedicated service? (4) Will the minister commit to reversing this decision and reinstating the dedicated midwifery ward, to ensure that the women of Busselton have the care and support they need when bringing their children into the world? Dr K.D. HAMES
I refer to the dedicated midwifery ward at Busselton District Hospital that was introduced at the beginning of 2008 by the Labor government and to the government’s decision to now cut the service by requiring highly trained midwife specialists to be merged into the general nursing tasks. (1) Considering the dedicated ward was introduced to give appropriate and dedicated care to new mothers and their babies, what effect will these cuts have now that the nurses’ time is spread even thinner, combining midwifery services with general duties? (2) If a midwife is required to administer pain relief to a general patient and she is then required to go to the birthing suite, which patient will have preference? (3) Why does the minister not believe the needs of pregnant and nursing mothers in the Busselton region are important enough to warrant a dedicated service? (4) Will the minister commit to reversing this decision and reinstating the dedicated midwifery ward, to ensure that the women of Busselton have the care and support they need when bringing their children into the world? Dr K.D. HAMES
AnswerView source ↗
(1)-(4) I thank the member for the question, and it is a subject in which I take a particular interest. The initial changes were made by the regional management in the interests of best practice management of their patients in Busselton District Hospital. But I received a number of letters from people involved in that system, and from people living in Busselton, putting forward to me what seemed to be very coherent and legitimate complaints about what the result of the changes that were to be made would be. I then obviously sought a lot more information about it. I had Kim Snowball, the regional manager of the Country Health Service, investigate the complaints. I have to say, I received letters that stated that everything was fine, but I was not happy with that. I said that when I read two letters side by side, my preference was to believe the letter of complaint, rather than the reply I received that stated that it was all okay. We had a detailed investigation into what was going on. Not only was Kim Snowball convinced that the outcome was in the best interests of patients and staff at the hospital, but I, too, was convinced. The midwives working in that dedicated midwifery unit were not fully engaged during their working day. Insufficient patients were coming to that ward to deliver babies to warrant the number of staff doing that work. As a result, we considered the best interests of the hospital and how we could best use those staff, thereby utilising some of the other nursing abilities of the midwives involved in that service. The midwifery unit has first priority. Any woman who comes to that midwifery unit receives priority care, and those midwives are dedicated to providing a comprehensive service to those patients. When they are not occupied with their primary task, they can use their abilities in the rest of the hospital to provide additional services to patients. It in the best interests of the nurses, it is in the best interests of their training, but, more importantly, it is in the best interests of the proper management of the hospital for the people of Busselton, so that they receive the best service they possibly can.
(1) Considering the dedicated ward was introduced to give appropriate and dedicated care to new mothers and their babies, what effect will these cuts have now that the nurses’ time is spread even thinner, combining midwifery services with general duties? (2) If a midwife is required to administer pain relief to a general patient and she is then required to go to the birthing suite, which patient will have preference? (3) Why does the minister not believe the needs of pregnant and nursing mothers in the Busselton region are important enough to warrant a dedicated service? (4) Will the minister commit to reversing this decision and reinstating the dedicated midwifery ward, to ensure that the women of Busselton have the care and support they need when bringing their children into the world? Dr K.D. HAMES replied: (1)-(4) I thank the member for the question, and it is a subject in which I take a particular interest. The initial changes were made by the regional management in the interests of best practice management of their patients in Busselton District Hospital. But I received a number of letters from people involved in that system, and from people living in Busselton, putting forward to me what seemed to be very coherent and legitimate complaints about what the result of the changes that were to be made would be. I then obviously sought a lot more information about it. I had Kim Snowball, the regional manager of the Country Health Service, investigate the complaints. I have to say, I received letters that stated that everything was fine, but I was not happy with that. I said that when I read two letters side by side, my preference was to believe the letter of complaint, rather than the reply I received that stated that it was all okay. We had a detailed investigation into what was going on. Not only was Kim Snowball convinced that the outcome was in the best interests of patients and staff at the hospital, but I, too, was convinced. The midwives working in that dedicated midwifery unit were not fully engaged during their working day. Insufficient patients were coming to that ward to deliver babies to warrant the number of staff doing that work. As a result, we considered the best interests of the hospital and how we could best use those staff, thereby utilising some of the other nursing abilities of the midwives involved in that service. The midwifery unit has first priority. Any woman who comes to that midwifery unit receives priority care, and those midwives are dedicated to providing a comprehensive service to those patients. When they are not occupied with their primary task, they can use their abilities in the rest of the hospital to provide additional services to patients. It in the best interests of the nurses, it is in the best interests of their training, but, more importantly, it is in the best interests of the proper management of the hospital for the people of Busselton, so that they receive the best service they possibly can.
(2) If a midwife is required to administer pain relief to a general patient and she is then required to go to the birthing suite, which patient will have preference? (3) Why does the minister not believe the needs of pregnant and nursing mothers in the Busselton region are important enough to warrant a dedicated service? (4) Will the minister commit to reversing this decision and reinstating the dedicated midwifery ward, to ensure that the women of Busselton have the care and support they need when bringing their children into the world? Dr K.D. HAMES replied: (1)-(4) I thank the member for the question, and it is a subject in which I take a particular interest. The initial changes were made by the regional management in the interests of best practice management of their patients in Busselton District Hospital. But I received a number of letters from people involved in that system, and from people living in Busselton, putting forward to me what seemed to be very coherent and legitimate complaints about what the result of the changes that were to be made would be. I then obviously sought a lot more information about it. I had Kim Snowball, the regional manager of the Country Health Service, investigate the complaints. I have to say, I received letters that stated that everything was fine, but I was not happy with that. I said that when I read two letters side by side, my preference was to believe the letter of complaint, rather than the reply I received that stated that it was all okay. We had a detailed investigation into what was going on. Not only was Kim Snowball convinced that the outcome was in the best interests of patients and staff at the hospital, but I, too, was convinced. The midwives working in that dedicated midwifery unit were not fully engaged during their working day. Insufficient patients were coming to that ward to deliver babies to warrant the number of staff doing that work. As a result, we considered the best interests of the hospital and how we could best use those staff, thereby utilising some of the other nursing abilities of the midwives involved in that service. The midwifery unit has first priority. Any woman who comes to that midwifery unit receives priority care, and those midwives are dedicated to providing a comprehensive service to those patients. When they are not occupied with their primary task, they can use their abilities in the rest of the hospital to provide additional services to patients. It in the best interests of the nurses, it is in the best interests of their training, but, more importantly, it is in the best interests of the proper management of the hospital for the people of Busselton, so that they receive the best service they possibly can.
(3) Why does the minister not believe the needs of pregnant and nursing mothers in the Busselton region are important enough to warrant a dedicated service? (4) Will the minister commit to reversing this decision and reinstating the dedicated midwifery ward, to ensure that the women of Busselton have the care and support they need when bringing their children into the world? Dr K.D. HAMES replied: (1)-(4) I thank the member for the question, and it is a subject in which I take a particular interest. The initial changes were made by the regional management in the interests of best practice management of their patients in Busselton District Hospital. But I received a number of letters from people involved in that system, and from people living in Busselton, putting forward to me what seemed to be very coherent and legitimate complaints about what the result of the changes that were to be made would be. I then obviously sought a lot more information about it. I had Kim Snowball, the regional manager of the Country Health Service, investigate the complaints. I have to say, I received letters that stated that everything was fine, but I was not happy with that. I said that when I read two letters side by side, my preference was to believe the letter of complaint, rather than the reply I received that stated that it was all okay. We had a detailed investigation into what was going on. Not only was Kim Snowball convinced that the outcome was in the best interests of patients and staff at the hospital, but I, too, was convinced. The midwives working in that dedicated midwifery unit were not fully engaged during their working day. Insufficient patients were coming to that ward to deliver babies to warrant the number of staff doing that work. As a result, we considered the best interests of the hospital and how we could best use those staff, thereby utilising some of the other nursing abilities of the midwives involved in that service. The midwifery unit has first priority. Any woman who comes to that midwifery unit receives priority care, and those midwives are dedicated to providing a comprehensive service to those patients. When they are not occupied with their primary task, they can use their abilities in the rest of the hospital to provide additional services to patients. It in the best interests of the nurses, it is in the best interests of their training, but, more importantly, it is in the best interests of the proper management of the hospital for the people of Busselton, so that they receive the best service they possibly can.
(4) Will the minister commit to reversing this decision and reinstating the dedicated midwifery ward, to ensure that the women of Busselton have the care and support they need when bringing their children into the world? Dr K.D. HAMES replied: (1)-(4) I thank the member for the question, and it is a subject in which I take a particular interest. The initial changes were made by the regional management in the interests of best practice management of their patients in Busselton District Hospital. But I received a number of letters from people involved in that system, and from people living in Busselton, putting forward to me what seemed to be very coherent and legitimate complaints about what the result of the changes that were to be made would be. I then obviously sought a lot more information about it. I had Kim Snowball, the regional manager of the Country Health Service, investigate the complaints. I have to say, I received letters that stated that everything was fine, but I was not happy with that. I said that when I read two letters side by side, my preference was to believe the letter of complaint, rather than the reply I received that stated that it was all okay. We had a detailed investigation into what was going on. Not only was Kim Snowball convinced that the outcome was in the best interests of patients and staff at the hospital, but I, too, was convinced. The midwives working in that dedicated midwifery unit were not fully engaged during their working day. Insufficient patients were coming to that ward to deliver babies to warrant the number of staff doing that work. As a result, we considered the best interests of the hospital and how we could best use those staff, thereby utilising some of the other nursing abilities of the midwives involved in that service. The midwifery unit has first priority. Any woman who comes to that midwifery unit receives priority care, and those midwives are dedicated to providing a comprehensive service to those patients. When they are not occupied with their primary task, they can use their abilities in the rest of the hospital to provide additional services to patients. It in the best interests of the nurses, it is in the best interests of their training, but, more importantly, it is in the best interests of the proper management of the hospital for the people of Busselton, so that they receive the best service they possibly can.
Dr K.D. HAMES replied: (1)-(4) I thank the member for the question, and it is a subject in which I take a particular interest. The initial changes were made by the regional management in the interests of best practice management of their patients in Busselton District Hospital. But I received a number of letters from people involved in that system, and from people living in Busselton, putting forward to me what seemed to be very coherent and legitimate complaints about what the result of the changes that were to be made would be. I then obviously sought a lot more information about it. I had Kim Snowball, the regional manager of the Country Health Service, investigate the complaints. I have to say, I received letters that stated that everything was fine, but I was not happy with that. I said that when I read two letters side by side, my preference was to believe the letter of complaint, rather than the reply I received that stated that it was all okay. We had a detailed investigation into what was going on. Not only was Kim Snowball convinced that the outcome was in the best interests of patients and staff at the hospital, but I, too, was convinced. The midwives working in that dedicated midwifery unit were not fully engaged during their working day. Insufficient patients were coming to that ward to deliver babies to warrant the number of staff doing that work. As a result, we considered the best interests of the hospital and how we could best use those staff, thereby utilising some of the other nursing abilities of the midwives involved in that service. The midwifery unit has first priority. Any woman who comes to that midwifery unit receives priority care, and those midwives are dedicated to providing a comprehensive service to those patients. When they are not occupied with their primary task, they can use their abilities in the rest of the hospital to provide additional services to patients. It in the best interests of the nurses, it is in the best interests of their training, but, more importantly, it is in the best interests of the proper management of the hospital for the people of Busselton, so that they receive the best service they possibly can.
(1)-(4) I thank the member for the question, and it is a subject in which I take a particular interest. The initial changes were made by the regional management in the interests of best practice management of their patients in Busselton District Hospital. But I received a number of letters from people involved in that system, and from people living in Busselton, putting forward to me what seemed to be very coherent and legitimate complaints about what the result of the changes that were to be made would be. I then obviously sought a lot more information about it. I had Kim Snowball, the regional manager of the Country Health Service, investigate the complaints. I have to say, I received letters that stated that everything was fine, but I was not happy with that. I said that when I read two letters side by side, my preference was to believe the letter of complaint, rather than the reply I received that stated that it was all okay. We had a detailed investigation into what was going on. Not only was Kim Snowball convinced that the outcome was in the best interests of patients and staff at the hospital, but I, too, was convinced. The midwives working in that dedicated midwifery unit were not fully engaged during their working day. Insufficient patients were coming to that ward to deliver babies to warrant the number of staff doing that work. As a result, we considered the best interests of the hospital and how we could best use those staff, thereby utilising some of the other nursing abilities of the midwives involved in that service. The midwifery unit has first priority. Any woman who comes to that midwifery unit receives priority care, and those midwives are dedicated to providing a comprehensive service to those patients. When they are not occupied with their primary task, they can use their abilities in the rest of the hospital to provide additional services to patients. It in the best interests of the nurses, it is in the best interests of their training, but, more importantly, it is in the best interests of the proper management of the hospital for the people of Busselton, so that they receive the best service they possibly can.
The midwifery unit has first priority. Any woman who comes to that midwifery unit receives priority care, and those midwives are dedicated to providing a comprehensive service to those patients. When they are not occupied with their primary task, they can use their abilities in the rest of the hospital to provide additional services to patients. It in the best interests of the nurses, it is in the best interests of their training, but, more importantly, it is in the best interests of the proper management of the hospital for the people of Busselton, so that they receive the best service they possibly can.
(1) Considering the dedicated ward was introduced to give appropriate and dedicated care to new mothers and their babies, what effect will these cuts have now that the nurses’ time is spread even thinner, combining midwifery services with general duties? (2) If a midwife is required to administer pain relief to a general patient and she is then required to go to the birthing suite, which patient will have preference? (3) Why does the minister not believe the needs of pregnant and nursing mothers in the Busselton region are important enough to warrant a dedicated service? (4) Will the minister commit to reversing this decision and reinstating the dedicated midwifery ward, to ensure that the women of Busselton have the care and support they need when bringing their children into the world? Dr K.D. HAMES replied: (1)-(4) I thank the member for the question, and it is a subject in which I take a particular interest. The initial changes were made by the regional management in the interests of best practice management of their patients in Busselton District Hospital. But I received a number of letters from people involved in that system, and from people living in Busselton, putting forward to me what seemed to be very coherent and legitimate complaints about what the result of the changes that were to be made would be. I then obviously sought a lot more information about it. I had Kim Snowball, the regional manager of the Country Health Service, investigate the complaints. I have to say, I received letters that stated that everything was fine, but I was not happy with that. I said that when I read two letters side by side, my preference was to believe the letter of complaint, rather than the reply I received that stated that it was all okay. We had a detailed investigation into what was going on. Not only was Kim Snowball convinced that the outcome was in the best interests of patients and staff at the hospital, but I, too, was convinced. The midwives working in that dedicated midwifery unit were not fully engaged during their working day. Insufficient patients were coming to that ward to deliver babies to warrant the number of staff doing that work. As a result, we considered the best interests of the hospital and how we could best use those staff, thereby utilising some of the other nursing abilities of the midwives involved in that service. The midwifery unit has first priority. Any woman who comes to that midwifery unit receives priority care, and those midwives are dedicated to providing a comprehensive service to those patients. When they are not occupied with their primary task, they can use their abilities in the rest of the hospital to provide additional services to patients. It in the best interests of the nurses, it is in the best interests of their training, but, more importantly, it is in the best interests of the proper management of the hospital for the people of Busselton, so that they receive the best service they possibly can.
(2) If a midwife is required to administer pain relief to a general patient and she is then required to go to the birthing suite, which patient will have preference? (3) Why does the minister not believe the needs of pregnant and nursing mothers in the Busselton region are important enough to warrant a dedicated service? (4) Will the minister commit to reversing this decision and reinstating the dedicated midwifery ward, to ensure that the women of Busselton have the care and support they need when bringing their children into the world? Dr K.D. HAMES replied: (1)-(4) I thank the member for the question, and it is a subject in which I take a particular interest. The initial changes were made by the regional management in the interests of best practice management of their patients in Busselton District Hospital. But I received a number of letters from people involved in that system, and from people living in Busselton, putting forward to me what seemed to be very coherent and legitimate complaints about what the result of the changes that were to be made would be. I then obviously sought a lot more information about it. I had Kim Snowball, the regional manager of the Country Health Service, investigate the complaints. I have to say, I received letters that stated that everything was fine, but I was not happy with that. I said that when I read two letters side by side, my preference was to believe the letter of complaint, rather than the reply I received that stated that it was all okay. We had a detailed investigation into what was going on. Not only was Kim Snowball convinced that the outcome was in the best interests of patients and staff at the hospital, but I, too, was convinced. The midwives working in that dedicated midwifery unit were not fully engaged during their working day. Insufficient patients were coming to that ward to deliver babies to warrant the number of staff doing that work. As a result, we considered the best interests of the hospital and how we could best use those staff, thereby utilising some of the other nursing abilities of the midwives involved in that service. The midwifery unit has first priority. Any woman who comes to that midwifery unit receives priority care, and those midwives are dedicated to providing a comprehensive service to those patients. When they are not occupied with their primary task, they can use their abilities in the rest of the hospital to provide additional services to patients. It in the best interests of the nurses, it is in the best interests of their training, but, more importantly, it is in the best interests of the proper management of the hospital for the people of Busselton, so that they receive the best service they possibly can.
(3) Why does the minister not believe the needs of pregnant and nursing mothers in the Busselton region are important enough to warrant a dedicated service? (4) Will the minister commit to reversing this decision and reinstating the dedicated midwifery ward, to ensure that the women of Busselton have the care and support they need when bringing their children into the world? Dr K.D. HAMES replied: (1)-(4) I thank the member for the question, and it is a subject in which I take a particular interest. The initial changes were made by the regional management in the interests of best practice management of their patients in Busselton District Hospital. But I received a number of letters from people involved in that system, and from people living in Busselton, putting forward to me what seemed to be very coherent and legitimate complaints about what the result of the changes that were to be made would be. I then obviously sought a lot more information about it. I had Kim Snowball, the regional manager of the Country Health Service, investigate the complaints. I have to say, I received letters that stated that everything was fine, but I was not happy with that. I said that when I read two letters side by side, my preference was to believe the letter of complaint, rather than the reply I received that stated that it was all okay. We had a detailed investigation into what was going on. Not only was Kim Snowball convinced that the outcome was in the best interests of patients and staff at the hospital, but I, too, was convinced. The midwives working in that dedicated midwifery unit were not fully engaged during their working day. Insufficient patients were coming to that ward to deliver babies to warrant the number of staff doing that work. As a result, we considered the best interests of the hospital and how we could best use those staff, thereby utilising some of the other nursing abilities of the midwives involved in that service. The midwifery unit has first priority. Any woman who comes to that midwifery unit receives priority care, and those midwives are dedicated to providing a comprehensive service to those patients. When they are not occupied with their primary task, they can use their abilities in the rest of the hospital to provide additional services to patients. It in the best interests of the nurses, it is in the best interests of their training, but, more importantly, it is in the best interests of the proper management of the hospital for the people of Busselton, so that they receive the best service they possibly can.
(4) Will the minister commit to reversing this decision and reinstating the dedicated midwifery ward, to ensure that the women of Busselton have the care and support they need when bringing their children into the world? Dr K.D. HAMES replied: (1)-(4) I thank the member for the question, and it is a subject in which I take a particular interest. The initial changes were made by the regional management in the interests of best practice management of their patients in Busselton District Hospital. But I received a number of letters from people involved in that system, and from people living in Busselton, putting forward to me what seemed to be very coherent and legitimate complaints about what the result of the changes that were to be made would be. I then obviously sought a lot more information about it. I had Kim Snowball, the regional manager of the Country Health Service, investigate the complaints. I have to say, I received letters that stated that everything was fine, but I was not happy with that. I said that when I read two letters side by side, my preference was to believe the letter of complaint, rather than the reply I received that stated that it was all okay. We had a detailed investigation into what was going on. Not only was Kim Snowball convinced that the outcome was in the best interests of patients and staff at the hospital, but I, too, was convinced. The midwives working in that dedicated midwifery unit were not fully engaged during their working day. Insufficient patients were coming to that ward to deliver babies to warrant the number of staff doing that work. As a result, we considered the best interests of the hospital and how we could best use those staff, thereby utilising some of the other nursing abilities of the midwives involved in that service. The midwifery unit has first priority. Any woman who comes to that midwifery unit receives priority care, and those midwives are dedicated to providing a comprehensive service to those patients. When they are not occupied with their primary task, they can use their abilities in the rest of the hospital to provide additional services to patients. It in the best interests of the nurses, it is in the best interests of their training, but, more importantly, it is in the best interests of the proper management of the hospital for the people of Busselton, so that they receive the best service they possibly can.
Dr K.D. HAMES replied: (1)-(4) I thank the member for the question, and it is a subject in which I take a particular interest. The initial changes were made by the regional management in the interests of best practice management of their patients in Busselton District Hospital. But I received a number of letters from people involved in that system, and from people living in Busselton, putting forward to me what seemed to be very coherent and legitimate complaints about what the result of the changes that were to be made would be. I then obviously sought a lot more information about it. I had Kim Snowball, the regional manager of the Country Health Service, investigate the complaints. I have to say, I received letters that stated that everything was fine, but I was not happy with that. I said that when I read two letters side by side, my preference was to believe the letter of complaint, rather than the reply I received that stated that it was all okay. We had a detailed investigation into what was going on. Not only was Kim Snowball convinced that the outcome was in the best interests of patients and staff at the hospital, but I, too, was convinced. The midwives working in that dedicated midwifery unit were not fully engaged during their working day. Insufficient patients were coming to that ward to deliver babies to warrant the number of staff doing that work. As a result, we considered the best interests of the hospital and how we could best use those staff, thereby utilising some of the other nursing abilities of the midwives involved in that service. The midwifery unit has first priority. Any woman who comes to that midwifery unit receives priority care, and those midwives are dedicated to providing a comprehensive service to those patients. When they are not occupied with their primary task, they can use their abilities in the rest of the hospital to provide additional services to patients. It in the best interests of the nurses, it is in the best interests of their training, but, more importantly, it is in the best interests of the proper management of the hospital for the people of Busselton, so that they receive the best service they possibly can.
(1)-(4) I thank the member for the question, and it is a subject in which I take a particular interest. The initial changes were made by the regional management in the interests of best practice management of their patients in Busselton District Hospital. But I received a number of letters from people involved in that system, and from people living in Busselton, putting forward to me what seemed to be very coherent and legitimate complaints about what the result of the changes that were to be made would be. I then obviously sought a lot more information about it. I had Kim Snowball, the regional manager of the Country Health Service, investigate the complaints. I have to say, I received letters that stated that everything was fine, but I was not happy with that. I said that when I read two letters side by side, my preference was to believe the letter of complaint, rather than the reply I received that stated that it was all okay. We had a detailed investigation into what was going on. Not only was Kim Snowball convinced that the outcome was in the best interests of patients and staff at the hospital, but I, too, was convinced. The midwives working in that dedicated midwifery unit were not fully engaged during their working day. Insufficient patients were coming to that ward to deliver babies to warrant the number of staff doing that work. As a result, we considered the best interests of the hospital and how we could best use those staff, thereby utilising some of the other nursing abilities of the midwives involved in that service. The midwifery unit has first priority. Any woman who comes to that midwifery unit receives priority care, and those midwives are dedicated to providing a comprehensive service to those patients. When they are not occupied with their primary task, they can use their abilities in the rest of the hospital to provide additional services to patients. It in the best interests of the nurses, it is in the best interests of their training, but, more importantly, it is in the best interests of the proper management of the hospital for the people of Busselton, so that they receive the best service they possibly can.
The midwifery unit has first priority. Any woman who comes to that midwifery unit receives priority care, and those midwives are dedicated to providing a comprehensive service to those patients. When they are not occupied with their primary task, they can use their abilities in the rest of the hospital to provide additional services to patients. It in the best interests of the nurses, it is in the best interests of their training, but, more importantly, it is in the best interests of the proper management of the hospital for the people of Busselton, so that they receive the best service they possibly can.
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