❓ Hon Peter Foss questions the Minister for Agriculture, Forestry and Fisheries about the insufficient jarrah allocation for timber mills, particularly small ones, and the timeline for announcing timber availability from moratorium blocks. Hon Kim Chance acknowledges the industry's concerns but states that volumes cannot be confirmed until the forest management plan is concluded, which relies on external advice.
AnsweredQoN 529Legislative Council
QuestionView source ↗
The Government recently announced its approach to the allocation of jarrah. The people to whom I have spoken have said that they are reluctant to spend further money in making a proposition to the Government while the quantities that are announced by the Government are manifestly insufficient to sustain both large and small mills. This is particularly the case with small mills that people not only manage but also operate. In view of the urgency, how soon will the Government announce the quantity of timber that will be available from the moratorium blocks, if any, and how soon will it announce whether the timber will reach an amount that the minister accepts to be reasonable - 180 000 cubic metres of jarrah? Hon KIM CHANCE
AnswerView source ↗
Nothing would give me greater pleasure than to be able to say to the timber industry the allocated volumes for jarrah to 2014 will be 180 000 cubic metres or a larger volume. Regrettably, neither I nor anyone in government can say that with certainty until the forest management plan has been concluded. Hon Peter Foss: What about the moratorium blocks? Hon KIM CHANCE: I will answer that question. I am not trying to evade the question. However, we need to address the broader issue first. Regrettably, nobody in government, including me, is able to say with certainty what that volume will be, because, as the member knows, the forest management plan relies for its determination upon the decisions of outside bodies, the Conservation Commission being one of those bodies. It is an extensive process and one which, perhaps necessarily so, relies on external advice, and is not a political decision. However, I would much prefer the scenario whereby government was able to make that decision and take the responsibility for it, as it does in so many other areas of the management of the economy. I am sure Hon Peter Foss understands that, but many other members may not have understood that. I will now deal with moratorium blocks and other issues. For members’ information, apart from the decision on the FMP, there are really three issues of determination that will have an effect on the final volume, the first of which has been identified by Hon Peter Foss to be the decision on the moratorium blocks. The moratorium blocks are essentially the blocks contained in the 25 000 hectares of the proposed Wellington National Park, which includes blocks such as, I think, Davis, Lowden, Westralia, and a couple of others that I cannot remember, as well as three other blocks. Helms is one such block. I used to be able to spit these out. Hon Peter Foss: Anyway, we know what they are. Hon KIM CHANCE: There are three other blocks. A consultant has been engaged to do an assessment of the economic, environmental and social value of those blocks. That consultant, URS Australia Pty Ltd, is well known in the forestry and environment area. Hon Peter Foss: You have had that for a couple of months, haven’t you? Hon KIM CHANCE: URS has provided the Minister for the Environment and me with a first draft of its report. I have had the opportunity to analyse the information in the first draft, as has the Minister for the Environment. I have yet to see a final draft of the URS report. However, I imagine that one is, or will shortly be, available. That report, of course, was commissioned by the Minister for the Environment, and I imagine Dr Judy Edwards will make a decision in the near future on a release date. The other variables are the final decisions that will be made on the national park boundaries. Again, that is a matter in which external, rather than political, advice will be a key determinant of where those boundaries will be, and how much of the state forest will be contained within those boundaries. A number of issues must be considered, including the decision that will be made on the moratorium blocks. Some of the issues that will be considered are how much of the state forest is to be contained in reserves, how representative those reserves are, and what effect that will have on the total balance of the state forest. It is a slow and frustrating process. Hon Peter Foss: How can you ask people to put in applications when they know now that there is not enough timber, especially for small millers? Hon KIM CHANCE: That is an interesting question. Hon Peter Foss: They reckon you are teasing them. Hon KIM CHANCE: No, I am not teasing them. At the moment, much as I would like to be able to say that there is a given volume, to a miller who is considering whether to exit the industry or to opt to stay in the industry by putting in a request for proposals or consideration of proposals, the question of the available volume is irrelevant. Hon Peter Foss: They don’t think so. Hon KIM CHANCE: No, at this time it is. I discussed this issue only yesterday with - Hon Peter Foss: If it will cost them money to do it, and there are inadequate quantities of timber, how can you expect them to spend all that money putting in a request when there will not be enough timber to keep both large and small mills going? Hon KIM CHANCE: Because any one miller has the same access to the available resource as any other miller. Nobody has priority, other than when contracts are already locked away, as is the case with Nannup Sawmill and Blueleaf Corporation Pty Ltd. Every other miller has the same opportunity now. Sotico Pty Ltd has made a bid, as the member is aware. Hon Peter Foss: Yes, and has loads of money to spend on it. The big problem is that the millers are saying it will cost them. The PRESIDENT: Order! It is not supplementary question time Hon KIM CHANCE: It will not necessarily be an expensive process. All the millers must detail is the volume of timber they believe they need to achieve a certain end, and they must be able to spell out what that end is. They must be able to demonstrate, for example, that while they do not intend to go beyond green sawn output, they have contracts, partnerships or some form of liaison in place with a value adder. Hon Peter Foss: All that is dependent on certainty of supply. Nobody is prepared to do any of those things without the certainty of supply. I was down there last week. They cannot even start talking partnerships until they know quantities. Hon KIM CHANCE: I have also been speaking to the small sawmill sector, indeed as recently as yesterday, and it has welcomed this process, over and above the pro rata process. Hon Peter Foss: It depends on which ones you have talked to. Hon KIM CHANCE: This was the association. Hon Peter Foss: Yes, but you start to talk to the little ones down south and you will get a different result. Hon KIM CHANCE: It is impossible to please everybody. I was rather hoping that the member would ask the question of which he has given me some notice and to which I have an answer - I am happy to talk with the member about it - because that explains the process rather better than I can do in the context of this question. The fact is that every sawmiller remaining - other than Blueleaf and Nannup, which have their contract volumes locked away - is in exactly the same position. Certainly, one could argue that Sotico has an advantage because it is bigger and better resourced, and, indeed, because it already had its proposition before the Government. The fact is that the Government will allow sufficient time for the smaller part of the mill sector to get those bids in. What the Government is asking those millers to show it will not necessarily require a great deal of expense, although it will require a little time and a little planning. However, I argue that that is planning that should be in place now if they believe they have a future in the sawmilling industry. Hon Peter Foss: A lot of them have it up in their heads; they don’t have it down on paper. Hon KIM CHANCE: If that is a problem to them, I recommend - this is an offer that the Government will make to them in any case - that they sit down with the Forest Products Commission on a one-to-one basis, and it will work through that process with them and provide them with whatever assistance they think they need. The Government was going to make that offer to them in any case.
Hon KIM CHANCE replied: Nothing would give me greater pleasure than to be able to say to the timber industry the allocated volumes for jarrah to 2014 will be 180 000 cubic metres or a larger volume. Regrettably, neither I nor anyone in government can say that with certainty until the forest management plan has been concluded. Hon Peter Foss: What about the moratorium blocks? Hon KIM CHANCE: I will answer that question. I am not trying to evade the question. However, we need to address the broader issue first. Regrettably, nobody in government, including me, is able to say with certainty what that volume will be, because, as the member knows, the forest management plan relies for its determination upon the decisions of outside bodies, the Conservation Commission being one of those bodies. It is an extensive process and one which, perhaps necessarily so, relies on external advice, and is not a political decision. However, I would much prefer the scenario whereby government was able to make that decision and take the responsibility for it, as it does in so many other areas of the management of the economy. I am sure Hon Peter Foss understands that, but many other members may not have understood that. I will now deal with moratorium blocks and other issues. For members’ information, apart from the decision on the FMP, there are really three issues of determination that will have an effect on the final volume, the first of which has been identified by Hon Peter Foss to be the decision on the moratorium blocks. The moratorium blocks are essentially the blocks contained in the 25 000 hectares of the proposed Wellington National Park, which includes blocks such as, I think, Davis, Lowden, Westralia, and a couple of others that I cannot remember, as well as three other blocks. Helms is one such block. I used to be able to spit these out. Hon Peter Foss: Anyway, we know what they are. Hon KIM CHANCE: There are three other blocks. A consultant has been engaged to do an assessment of the economic, environmental and social value of those blocks. That consultant, URS Australia Pty Ltd, is well known in the forestry and environment area. Hon Peter Foss: You have had that for a couple of months, haven’t you? Hon KIM CHANCE: URS has provided the Minister for the Environment and me with a first draft of its report. I have had the opportunity to analyse the information in the first draft, as has the Minister for the Environment. I have yet to see a final draft of the URS report. However, I imagine that one is, or will shortly be, available. That report, of course, was commissioned by the Minister for the Environment, and I imagine Dr Judy Edwards will make a decision in the near future on a release date. The other variables are the final decisions that will be made on the national park boundaries. Again, that is a matter in which external, rather than political, advice will be a key determinant of where those boundaries will be, and how much of the state forest will be contained within those boundaries. A number of issues must be considered, including the decision that will be made on the moratorium blocks. Some of the issues that will be considered are how much of the state forest is to be contained in reserves, how representative those reserves are, and what effect that will have on the total balance of the state forest. It is a slow and frustrating process. Hon Peter Foss: How can you ask people to put in applications when they know now that there is not enough timber, especially for small millers? Hon KIM CHANCE: That is an interesting question. Hon Peter Foss: They reckon you are teasing them. Hon KIM CHANCE: No, I am not teasing them. At the moment, much as I would like to be able to say that there is a given volume, to a miller who is considering whether to exit the industry or to opt to stay in the industry by putting in a request for proposals or consideration of proposals, the question of the available volume is irrelevant. Hon Peter Foss: They don’t think so. Hon KIM CHANCE: No, at this time it is. I discussed this issue only yesterday with - Hon Peter Foss: If it will cost them money to do it, and there are inadequate quantities of timber, how can you expect them to spend all that money putting in a request when there will not be enough timber to keep both large and small mills going? Hon KIM CHANCE: Because any one miller has the same access to the available resource as any other miller. Nobody has priority, other than when contracts are already locked away, as is the case with Nannup Sawmill and Blueleaf Corporation Pty Ltd. Every other miller has the same opportunity now. Sotico Pty Ltd has made a bid, as the member is aware. Hon Peter Foss: Yes, and has loads of money to spend on it. The big problem is that the millers are saying it will cost them. The PRESIDENT: Order! It is not supplementary question time Hon KIM CHANCE: It will not necessarily be an expensive process. All the millers must detail is the volume of timber they believe they need to achieve a certain end, and they must be able to spell out what that end is. They must be able to demonstrate, for example, that while they do not intend to go beyond green sawn output, they have contracts, partnerships or some form of liaison in place with a value adder. Hon Peter Foss: All that is dependent on certainty of supply. Nobody is prepared to do any of those things without the certainty of supply. I was down there last week. They cannot even start talking partnerships until they know quantities. Hon KIM CHANCE: I have also been speaking to the small sawmill sector, indeed as recently as yesterday, and it has welcomed this process, over and above the pro rata process. Hon Peter Foss: It depends on which ones you have talked to. Hon KIM CHANCE: This was the association. Hon Peter Foss: Yes, but you start to talk to the little ones down south and you will get a different result. Hon KIM CHANCE: It is impossible to please everybody. I was rather hoping that the member would ask the question of which he has given me some notice and to which I have an answer - I am happy to talk with the member about it - because that explains the process rather better than I can do in the context of this question. The fact is that every sawmiller remaining - other than Blueleaf and Nannup, which have their contract volumes locked away - is in exactly the same position. Certainly, one could argue that Sotico has an advantage because it is bigger and better resourced, and, indeed, because it already had its proposition before the Government. The fact is that the Government will allow sufficient time for the smaller part of the mill sector to get those bids in. What the Government is asking those millers to show it will not necessarily require a great deal of expense, although it will require a little time and a little planning. However, I argue that that is planning that should be in place now if they believe they have a future in the sawmilling industry. Hon Peter Foss: A lot of them have it up in their heads; they don’t have it down on paper. Hon KIM CHANCE: If that is a problem to them, I recommend - this is an offer that the Government will make to them in any case - that they sit down with the Forest Products Commission on a one-to-one basis, and it will work through that process with them and provide them with whatever assistance they think they need. The Government was going to make that offer to them in any case.
Nothing would give me greater pleasure than to be able to say to the timber industry the allocated volumes for jarrah to 2014 will be 180 000 cubic metres or a larger volume. Regrettably, neither I nor anyone in government can say that with certainty until the forest management plan has been concluded. Hon Peter Foss: What about the moratorium blocks? Hon KIM CHANCE: I will answer that question. I am not trying to evade the question. However, we need to address the broader issue first. Regrettably, nobody in government, including me, is able to say with certainty what that volume will be, because, as the member knows, the forest management plan relies for its determination upon the decisions of outside bodies, the Conservation Commission being one of those bodies. It is an extensive process and one which, perhaps necessarily so, relies on external advice, and is not a political decision. However, I would much prefer the scenario whereby government was able to make that decision and take the responsibility for it, as it does in so many other areas of the management of the economy. I am sure Hon Peter Foss understands that, but many other members may not have understood that. I will now deal with moratorium blocks and other issues. For members’ information, apart from the decision on the FMP, there are really three issues of determination that will have an effect on the final volume, the first of which has been identified by Hon Peter Foss to be the decision on the moratorium blocks. The moratorium blocks are essentially the blocks contained in the 25 000 hectares of the proposed Wellington National Park, which includes blocks such as, I think, Davis, Lowden, Westralia, and a couple of others that I cannot remember, as well as three other blocks. Helms is one such block. I used to be able to spit these out. Hon Peter Foss: Anyway, we know what they are. Hon KIM CHANCE: There are three other blocks. A consultant has been engaged to do an assessment of the economic, environmental and social value of those blocks. That consultant, URS Australia Pty Ltd, is well known in the forestry and environment area. Hon Peter Foss: You have had that for a couple of months, haven’t you? Hon KIM CHANCE: URS has provided the Minister for the Environment and me with a first draft of its report. I have had the opportunity to analyse the information in the first draft, as has the Minister for the Environment. I have yet to see a final draft of the URS report. However, I imagine that one is, or will shortly be, available. That report, of course, was commissioned by the Minister for the Environment, and I imagine Dr Judy Edwards will make a decision in the near future on a release date. The other variables are the final decisions that will be made on the national park boundaries. Again, that is a matter in which external, rather than political, advice will be a key determinant of where those boundaries will be, and how much of the state forest will be contained within those boundaries. A number of issues must be considered, including the decision that will be made on the moratorium blocks. Some of the issues that will be considered are how much of the state forest is to be contained in reserves, how representative those reserves are, and what effect that will have on the total balance of the state forest. It is a slow and frustrating process. Hon Peter Foss: How can you ask people to put in applications when they know now that there is not enough timber, especially for small millers? Hon KIM CHANCE: That is an interesting question. Hon Peter Foss: They reckon you are teasing them. Hon KIM CHANCE: No, I am not teasing them. At the moment, much as I would like to be able to say that there is a given volume, to a miller who is considering whether to exit the industry or to opt to stay in the industry by putting in a request for proposals or consideration of proposals, the question of the available volume is irrelevant. Hon Peter Foss: They don’t think so. Hon KIM CHANCE: No, at this time it is. I discussed this issue only yesterday with - Hon Peter Foss: If it will cost them money to do it, and there are inadequate quantities of timber, how can you expect them to spend all that money putting in a request when there will not be enough timber to keep both large and small mills going? Hon KIM CHANCE: Because any one miller has the same access to the available resource as any other miller. Nobody has priority, other than when contracts are already locked away, as is the case with Nannup Sawmill and Blueleaf Corporation Pty Ltd. Every other miller has the same opportunity now. Sotico Pty Ltd has made a bid, as the member is aware. Hon Peter Foss: Yes, and has loads of money to spend on it. The big problem is that the millers are saying it will cost them. The PRESIDENT: Order! It is not supplementary question time Hon KIM CHANCE: It will not necessarily be an expensive process. All the millers must detail is the volume of timber they believe they need to achieve a certain end, and they must be able to spell out what that end is. They must be able to demonstrate, for example, that while they do not intend to go beyond green sawn output, they have contracts, partnerships or some form of liaison in place with a value adder. Hon Peter Foss: All that is dependent on certainty of supply. Nobody is prepared to do any of those things without the certainty of supply. I was down there last week. They cannot even start talking partnerships until they know quantities. Hon KIM CHANCE: I have also been speaking to the small sawmill sector, indeed as recently as yesterday, and it has welcomed this process, over and above the pro rata process. Hon Peter Foss: It depends on which ones you have talked to. Hon KIM CHANCE: This was the association. Hon Peter Foss: Yes, but you start to talk to the little ones down south and you will get a different result. Hon KIM CHANCE: It is impossible to please everybody. I was rather hoping that the member would ask the question of which he has given me some notice and to which I have an answer - I am happy to talk with the member about it - because that explains the process rather better than I can do in the context of this question. The fact is that every sawmiller remaining - other than Blueleaf and Nannup, which have their contract volumes locked away - is in exactly the same position. Certainly, one could argue that Sotico has an advantage because it is bigger and better resourced, and, indeed, because it already had its proposition before the Government. The fact is that the Government will allow sufficient time for the smaller part of the mill sector to get those bids in. What the Government is asking those millers to show it will not necessarily require a great deal of expense, although it will require a little time and a little planning. However, I argue that that is planning that should be in place now if they believe they have a future in the sawmilling industry. Hon Peter Foss: A lot of them have it up in their heads; they don’t have it down on paper. Hon KIM CHANCE: If that is a problem to them, I recommend - this is an offer that the Government will make to them in any case - that they sit down with the Forest Products Commission on a one-to-one basis, and it will work through that process with them and provide them with whatever assistance they think they need. The Government was going to make that offer to them in any case.
Hon Peter Foss: What about the moratorium blocks? Hon KIM CHANCE: I will answer that question. I am not trying to evade the question. However, we need to address the broader issue first. Regrettably, nobody in government, including me, is able to say with certainty what that volume will be, because, as the member knows, the forest management plan relies for its determination upon the decisions of outside bodies, the Conservation Commission being one of those bodies. It is an extensive process and one which, perhaps necessarily so, relies on external advice, and is not a political decision. However, I would much prefer the scenario whereby government was able to make that decision and take the responsibility for it, as it does in so many other areas of the management of the economy. I am sure Hon Peter Foss understands that, but many other members may not have understood that. I will now deal with moratorium blocks and other issues. For members’ information, apart from the decision on the FMP, there are really three issues of determination that will have an effect on the final volume, the first of which has been identified by Hon Peter Foss to be the decision on the moratorium blocks. The moratorium blocks are essentially the blocks contained in the 25 000 hectares of the proposed Wellington National Park, which includes blocks such as, I think, Davis, Lowden, Westralia, and a couple of others that I cannot remember, as well as three other blocks. Helms is one such block. I used to be able to spit these out. Hon Peter Foss: Anyway, we know what they are. Hon KIM CHANCE: There are three other blocks. A consultant has been engaged to do an assessment of the economic, environmental and social value of those blocks. That consultant, URS Australia Pty Ltd, is well known in the forestry and environment area. Hon Peter Foss: You have had that for a couple of months, haven’t you? Hon KIM CHANCE: URS has provided the Minister for the Environment and me with a first draft of its report. I have had the opportunity to analyse the information in the first draft, as has the Minister for the Environment. I have yet to see a final draft of the URS report. However, I imagine that one is, or will shortly be, available. That report, of course, was commissioned by the Minister for the Environment, and I imagine Dr Judy Edwards will make a decision in the near future on a release date. The other variables are the final decisions that will be made on the national park boundaries. Again, that is a matter in which external, rather than political, advice will be a key determinant of where those boundaries will be, and how much of the state forest will be contained within those boundaries. A number of issues must be considered, including the decision that will be made on the moratorium blocks. Some of the issues that will be considered are how much of the state forest is to be contained in reserves, how representative those reserves are, and what effect that will have on the total balance of the state forest. It is a slow and frustrating process. Hon Peter Foss: How can you ask people to put in applications when they know now that there is not enough timber, especially for small millers? Hon KIM CHANCE: That is an interesting question. Hon Peter Foss: They reckon you are teasing them. Hon KIM CHANCE: No, I am not teasing them. At the moment, much as I would like to be able to say that there is a given volume, to a miller who is considering whether to exit the industry or to opt to stay in the industry by putting in a request for proposals or consideration of proposals, the question of the available volume is irrelevant. Hon Peter Foss: They don’t think so. Hon KIM CHANCE: No, at this time it is. I discussed this issue only yesterday with - Hon Peter Foss: If it will cost them money to do it, and there are inadequate quantities of timber, how can you expect them to spend all that money putting in a request when there will not be enough timber to keep both large and small mills going? Hon KIM CHANCE: Because any one miller has the same access to the available resource as any other miller. Nobody has priority, other than when contracts are already locked away, as is the case with Nannup Sawmill and Blueleaf Corporation Pty Ltd. Every other miller has the same opportunity now. Sotico Pty Ltd has made a bid, as the member is aware. Hon Peter Foss: Yes, and has loads of money to spend on it. The big problem is that the millers are saying it will cost them. The PRESIDENT: Order! It is not supplementary question time Hon KIM CHANCE: It will not necessarily be an expensive process. All the millers must detail is the volume of timber they believe they need to achieve a certain end, and they must be able to spell out what that end is. They must be able to demonstrate, for example, that while they do not intend to go beyond green sawn output, they have contracts, partnerships or some form of liaison in place with a value adder. Hon Peter Foss: All that is dependent on certainty of supply. Nobody is prepared to do any of those things without the certainty of supply. I was down there last week. They cannot even start talking partnerships until they know quantities. Hon KIM CHANCE: I have also been speaking to the small sawmill sector, indeed as recently as yesterday, and it has welcomed this process, over and above the pro rata process. Hon Peter Foss: It depends on which ones you have talked to. Hon KIM CHANCE: This was the association. Hon Peter Foss: Yes, but you start to talk to the little ones down south and you will get a different result. Hon KIM CHANCE: It is impossible to please everybody. I was rather hoping that the member would ask the question of which he has given me some notice and to which I have an answer - I am happy to talk with the member about it - because that explains the process rather better than I can do in the context of this question. The fact is that every sawmiller remaining - other than Blueleaf and Nannup, which have their contract volumes locked away - is in exactly the same position. Certainly, one could argue that Sotico has an advantage because it is bigger and better resourced, and, indeed, because it already had its proposition before the Government. The fact is that the Government will allow sufficient time for the smaller part of the mill sector to get those bids in. What the Government is asking those millers to show it will not necessarily require a great deal of expense, although it will require a little time and a little planning. However, I argue that that is planning that should be in place now if they believe they have a future in the sawmilling industry. Hon Peter Foss: A lot of them have it up in their heads; they don’t have it down on paper. Hon KIM CHANCE: If that is a problem to them, I recommend - this is an offer that the Government will make to them in any case - that they sit down with the Forest Products Commission on a one-to-one basis, and it will work through that process with them and provide them with whatever assistance they think they need. The Government was going to make that offer to them in any case.
Hon KIM CHANCE: I will answer that question. I am not trying to evade the question. However, we need to address the broader issue first. Regrettably, nobody in government, including me, is able to say with certainty what that volume will be, because, as the member knows, the forest management plan relies for its determination upon the decisions of outside bodies, the Conservation Commission being one of those bodies. It is an extensive process and one which, perhaps necessarily so, relies on external advice, and is not a political decision. However, I would much prefer the scenario whereby government was able to make that decision and take the responsibility for it, as it does in so many other areas of the management of the economy. I am sure Hon Peter Foss understands that, but many other members may not have understood that. I will now deal with moratorium blocks and other issues. For members’ information, apart from the decision on the FMP, there are really three issues of determination that will have an effect on the final volume, the first of which has been identified by Hon Peter Foss to be the decision on the moratorium blocks. The moratorium blocks are essentially the blocks contained in the 25 000 hectares of the proposed Wellington National Park, which includes blocks such as, I think, Davis, Lowden, Westralia, and a couple of others that I cannot remember, as well as three other blocks. Helms is one such block. I used to be able to spit these out. Hon Peter Foss: Anyway, we know what they are. Hon KIM CHANCE: There are three other blocks. A consultant has been engaged to do an assessment of the economic, environmental and social value of those blocks. That consultant, URS Australia Pty Ltd, is well known in the forestry and environment area. Hon Peter Foss: You have had that for a couple of months, haven’t you? Hon KIM CHANCE: URS has provided the Minister for the Environment and me with a first draft of its report. I have had the opportunity to analyse the information in the first draft, as has the Minister for the Environment. I have yet to see a final draft of the URS report. However, I imagine that one is, or will shortly be, available. That report, of course, was commissioned by the Minister for the Environment, and I imagine Dr Judy Edwards will make a decision in the near future on a release date. The other variables are the final decisions that will be made on the national park boundaries. Again, that is a matter in which external, rather than political, advice will be a key determinant of where those boundaries will be, and how much of the state forest will be contained within those boundaries. A number of issues must be considered, including the decision that will be made on the moratorium blocks. Some of the issues that will be considered are how much of the state forest is to be contained in reserves, how representative those reserves are, and what effect that will have on the total balance of the state forest. It is a slow and frustrating process. Hon Peter Foss: How can you ask people to put in applications when they know now that there is not enough timber, especially for small millers? Hon KIM CHANCE: That is an interesting question. Hon Peter Foss: They reckon you are teasing them. Hon KIM CHANCE: No, I am not teasing them. At the moment, much as I would like to be able to say that there is a given volume, to a miller who is considering whether to exit the industry or to opt to stay in the industry by putting in a request for proposals or consideration of proposals, the question of the available volume is irrelevant. Hon Peter Foss: They don’t think so. Hon KIM CHANCE: No, at this time it is. I discussed this issue only yesterday with - Hon Peter Foss: If it will cost them money to do it, and there are inadequate quantities of timber, how can you expect them to spend all that money putting in a request when there will not be enough timber to keep both large and small mills going? Hon KIM CHANCE: Because any one miller has the same access to the available resource as any other miller. Nobody has priority, other than when contracts are already locked away, as is the case with Nannup Sawmill and Blueleaf Corporation Pty Ltd. Every other miller has the same opportunity now. Sotico Pty Ltd has made a bid, as the member is aware. Hon Peter Foss: Yes, and has loads of money to spend on it. The big problem is that the millers are saying it will cost them. The PRESIDENT: Order! It is not supplementary question time Hon KIM CHANCE: It will not necessarily be an expensive process. All the millers must detail is the volume of timber they believe they need to achieve a certain end, and they must be able to spell out what that end is. They must be able to demonstrate, for example, that while they do not intend to go beyond green sawn output, they have contracts, partnerships or some form of liaison in place with a value adder. Hon Peter Foss: All that is dependent on certainty of supply. Nobody is prepared to do any of those things without the certainty of supply. I was down there last week. They cannot even start talking partnerships until they know quantities. Hon KIM CHANCE: I have also been speaking to the small sawmill sector, indeed as recently as yesterday, and it has welcomed this process, over and above the pro rata process. Hon Peter Foss: It depends on which ones you have talked to. Hon KIM CHANCE: This was the association. Hon Peter Foss: Yes, but you start to talk to the little ones down south and you will get a different result. Hon KIM CHANCE: It is impossible to please everybody. I was rather hoping that the member would ask the question of which he has given me some notice and to which I have an answer - I am happy to talk with the member about it - because that explains the process rather better than I can do in the context of this question. The fact is that every sawmiller remaining - other than Blueleaf and Nannup, which have their contract volumes locked away - is in exactly the same position. Certainly, one could argue that Sotico has an advantage because it is bigger and better resourced, and, indeed, because it already had its proposition before the Government. The fact is that the Government will allow sufficient time for the smaller part of the mill sector to get those bids in. What the Government is asking those millers to show it will not necessarily require a great deal of expense, although it will require a little time and a little planning. However, I argue that that is planning that should be in place now if they believe they have a future in the sawmilling industry. Hon Peter Foss: A lot of them have it up in their heads; they don’t have it down on paper. Hon KIM CHANCE: If that is a problem to them, I recommend - this is an offer that the Government will make to them in any case - that they sit down with the Forest Products Commission on a one-to-one basis, and it will work through that process with them and provide them with whatever assistance they think they need. The Government was going to make that offer to them in any case.
I will now deal with moratorium blocks and other issues. For members’ information, apart from the decision on the FMP, there are really three issues of determination that will have an effect on the final volume, the first of which has been identified by Hon Peter Foss to be the decision on the moratorium blocks. The moratorium blocks are essentially the blocks contained in the 25 000 hectares of the proposed Wellington National Park, which includes blocks such as, I think, Davis, Lowden, Westralia, and a couple of others that I cannot remember, as well as three other blocks. Helms is one such block. I used to be able to spit these out. Hon Peter Foss: Anyway, we know what they are. Hon KIM CHANCE: There are three other blocks. A consultant has been engaged to do an assessment of the economic, environmental and social value of those blocks. That consultant, URS Australia Pty Ltd, is well known in the forestry and environment area. Hon Peter Foss: You have had that for a couple of months, haven’t you? Hon KIM CHANCE: URS has provided the Minister for the Environment and me with a first draft of its report. I have had the opportunity to analyse the information in the first draft, as has the Minister for the Environment. I have yet to see a final draft of the URS report. However, I imagine that one is, or will shortly be, available. That report, of course, was commissioned by the Minister for the Environment, and I imagine Dr Judy Edwards will make a decision in the near future on a release date. The other variables are the final decisions that will be made on the national park boundaries. Again, that is a matter in which external, rather than political, advice will be a key determinant of where those boundaries will be, and how much of the state forest will be contained within those boundaries. A number of issues must be considered, including the decision that will be made on the moratorium blocks. Some of the issues that will be considered are how much of the state forest is to be contained in reserves, how representative those reserves are, and what effect that will have on the total balance of the state forest. It is a slow and frustrating process. Hon Peter Foss: How can you ask people to put in applications when they know now that there is not enough timber, especially for small millers? Hon KIM CHANCE: That is an interesting question. Hon Peter Foss: They reckon you are teasing them. Hon KIM CHANCE: No, I am not teasing them. At the moment, much as I would like to be able to say that there is a given volume, to a miller who is considering whether to exit the industry or to opt to stay in the industry by putting in a request for proposals or consideration of proposals, the question of the available volume is irrelevant. Hon Peter Foss: They don’t think so. Hon KIM CHANCE: No, at this time it is. I discussed this issue only yesterday with - Hon Peter Foss: If it will cost them money to do it, and there are inadequate quantities of timber, how can you expect them to spend all that money putting in a request when there will not be enough timber to keep both large and small mills going? Hon KIM CHANCE: Because any one miller has the same access to the available resource as any other miller. Nobody has priority, other than when contracts are already locked away, as is the case with Nannup Sawmill and Blueleaf Corporation Pty Ltd. Every other miller has the same opportunity now. Sotico Pty Ltd has made a bid, as the member is aware. Hon Peter Foss: Yes, and has loads of money to spend on it. The big problem is that the millers are saying it will cost them. The PRESIDENT: Order! It is not supplementary question time Hon KIM CHANCE: It will not necessarily be an expensive process. All the millers must detail is the volume of timber they believe they need to achieve a certain end, and they must be able to spell out what that end is. They must be able to demonstrate, for example, that while they do not intend to go beyond green sawn output, they have contracts, partnerships or some form of liaison in place with a value adder. Hon Peter Foss: All that is dependent on certainty of supply. Nobody is prepared to do any of those things without the certainty of supply. I was down there last week. They cannot even start talking partnerships until they know quantities. Hon KIM CHANCE: I have also been speaking to the small sawmill sector, indeed as recently as yesterday, and it has welcomed this process, over and above the pro rata process. Hon Peter Foss: It depends on which ones you have talked to. Hon KIM CHANCE: This was the association. Hon Peter Foss: Yes, but you start to talk to the little ones down south and you will get a different result. Hon KIM CHANCE: It is impossible to please everybody. I was rather hoping that the member would ask the question of which he has given me some notice and to which I have an answer - I am happy to talk with the member about it - because that explains the process rather better than I can do in the context of this question. The fact is that every sawmiller remaining - other than Blueleaf and Nannup, which have their contract volumes locked away - is in exactly the same position. Certainly, one could argue that Sotico has an advantage because it is bigger and better resourced, and, indeed, because it already had its proposition before the Government. The fact is that the Government will allow sufficient time for the smaller part of the mill sector to get those bids in. What the Government is asking those millers to show it will not necessarily require a great deal of expense, although it will require a little time and a little planning. However, I argue that that is planning that should be in place now if they believe they have a future in the sawmilling industry. Hon Peter Foss: A lot of them have it up in their heads; they don’t have it down on paper. Hon KIM CHANCE: If that is a problem to them, I recommend - this is an offer that the Government will make to them in any case - that they sit down with the Forest Products Commission on a one-to-one basis, and it will work through that process with them and provide them with whatever assistance they think they need. The Government was going to make that offer to them in any case.
Hon Peter Foss: Anyway, we know what they are. Hon KIM CHANCE: There are three other blocks. A consultant has been engaged to do an assessment of the economic, environmental and social value of those blocks. That consultant, URS Australia Pty Ltd, is well known in the forestry and environment area. Hon Peter Foss: You have had that for a couple of months, haven’t you? Hon KIM CHANCE: URS has provided the Minister for the Environment and me with a first draft of its report. I have had the opportunity to analyse the information in the first draft, as has the Minister for the Environment. I have yet to see a final draft of the URS report. However, I imagine that one is, or will shortly be, available. That report, of course, was commissioned by the Minister for the Environment, and I imagine Dr Judy Edwards will make a decision in the near future on a release date. The other variables are the final decisions that will be made on the national park boundaries. Again, that is a matter in which external, rather than political, advice will be a key determinant of where those boundaries will be, and how much of the state forest will be contained within those boundaries. A number of issues must be considered, including the decision that will be made on the moratorium blocks. Some of the issues that will be considered are how much of the state forest is to be contained in reserves, how representative those reserves are, and what effect that will have on the total balance of the state forest. It is a slow and frustrating process. Hon Peter Foss: How can you ask people to put in applications when they know now that there is not enough timber, especially for small millers? Hon KIM CHANCE: That is an interesting question. Hon Peter Foss: They reckon you are teasing them. Hon KIM CHANCE: No, I am not teasing them. At the moment, much as I would like to be able to say that there is a given volume, to a miller who is considering whether to exit the industry or to opt to stay in the industry by putting in a request for proposals or consideration of proposals, the question of the available volume is irrelevant. Hon Peter Foss: They don’t think so. Hon KIM CHANCE: No, at this time it is. I discussed this issue only yesterday with - Hon Peter Foss: If it will cost them money to do it, and there are inadequate quantities of timber, how can you expect them to spend all that money putting in a request when there will not be enough timber to keep both large and small mills going? Hon KIM CHANCE: Because any one miller has the same access to the available resource as any other miller. Nobody has priority, other than when contracts are already locked away, as is the case with Nannup Sawmill and Blueleaf Corporation Pty Ltd. Every other miller has the same opportunity now. Sotico Pty Ltd has made a bid, as the member is aware. Hon Peter Foss: Yes, and has loads of money to spend on it. The big problem is that the millers are saying it will cost them. The PRESIDENT: Order! It is not supplementary question time Hon KIM CHANCE: It will not necessarily be an expensive process. All the millers must detail is the volume of timber they believe they need to achieve a certain end, and they must be able to spell out what that end is. They must be able to demonstrate, for example, that while they do not intend to go beyond green sawn output, they have contracts, partnerships or some form of liaison in place with a value adder. Hon Peter Foss: All that is dependent on certainty of supply. Nobody is prepared to do any of those things without the certainty of supply. I was down there last week. They cannot even start talking partnerships until they know quantities. Hon KIM CHANCE: I have also been speaking to the small sawmill sector, indeed as recently as yesterday, and it has welcomed this process, over and above the pro rata process. Hon Peter Foss: It depends on which ones you have talked to. Hon KIM CHANCE: This was the association. Hon Peter Foss: Yes, but you start to talk to the little ones down south and you will get a different result. Hon KIM CHANCE: It is impossible to please everybody. I was rather hoping that the member would ask the question of which he has given me some notice and to which I have an answer - I am happy to talk with the member about it - because that explains the process rather better than I can do in the context of this question. The fact is that every sawmiller remaining - other than Blueleaf and Nannup, which have their contract volumes locked away - is in exactly the same position. Certainly, one could argue that Sotico has an advantage because it is bigger and better resourced, and, indeed, because it already had its proposition before the Government. The fact is that the Government will allow sufficient time for the smaller part of the mill sector to get those bids in. What the Government is asking those millers to show it will not necessarily require a great deal of expense, although it will require a little time and a little planning. However, I argue that that is planning that should be in place now if they believe they have a future in the sawmilling industry. Hon Peter Foss: A lot of them have it up in their heads; they don’t have it down on paper. Hon KIM CHANCE: If that is a problem to them, I recommend - this is an offer that the Government will make to them in any case - that they sit down with the Forest Products Commission on a one-to-one basis, and it will work through that process with them and provide them with whatever assistance they think they need. The Government was going to make that offer to them in any case.
Hon KIM CHANCE: There are three other blocks. A consultant has been engaged to do an assessment of the economic, environmental and social value of those blocks. That consultant, URS Australia Pty Ltd, is well known in the forestry and environment area. Hon Peter Foss: You have had that for a couple of months, haven’t you? Hon KIM CHANCE: URS has provided the Minister for the Environment and me with a first draft of its report. I have had the opportunity to analyse the information in the first draft, as has the Minister for the Environment. I have yet to see a final draft of the URS report. However, I imagine that one is, or will shortly be, available. That report, of course, was commissioned by the Minister for the Environment, and I imagine Dr Judy Edwards will make a decision in the near future on a release date. The other variables are the final decisions that will be made on the national park boundaries. Again, that is a matter in which external, rather than political, advice will be a key determinant of where those boundaries will be, and how much of the state forest will be contained within those boundaries. A number of issues must be considered, including the decision that will be made on the moratorium blocks. Some of the issues that will be considered are how much of the state forest is to be contained in reserves, how representative those reserves are, and what effect that will have on the total balance of the state forest. It is a slow and frustrating process. Hon Peter Foss: How can you ask people to put in applications when they know now that there is not enough timber, especially for small millers? Hon KIM CHANCE: That is an interesting question. Hon Peter Foss: They reckon you are teasing them. Hon KIM CHANCE: No, I am not teasing them. At the moment, much as I would like to be able to say that there is a given volume, to a miller who is considering whether to exit the industry or to opt to stay in the industry by putting in a request for proposals or consideration of proposals, the question of the available volume is irrelevant. Hon Peter Foss: They don’t think so. Hon KIM CHANCE: No, at this time it is. I discussed this issue only yesterday with - Hon Peter Foss: If it will cost them money to do it, and there are inadequate quantities of timber, how can you expect them to spend all that money putting in a request when there will not be enough timber to keep both large and small mills going? Hon KIM CHANCE: Because any one miller has the same access to the available resource as any other miller. Nobody has priority, other than when contracts are already locked away, as is the case with Nannup Sawmill and Blueleaf Corporation Pty Ltd. Every other miller has the same opportunity now. Sotico Pty Ltd has made a bid, as the member is aware. Hon Peter Foss: Yes, and has loads of money to spend on it. The big problem is that the millers are saying it will cost them. The PRESIDENT: Order! It is not supplementary question time Hon KIM CHANCE: It will not necessarily be an expensive process. All the millers must detail is the volume of timber they believe they need to achieve a certain end, and they must be able to spell out what that end is. They must be able to demonstrate, for example, that while they do not intend to go beyond green sawn output, they have contracts, partnerships or some form of liaison in place with a value adder. Hon Peter Foss: All that is dependent on certainty of supply. Nobody is prepared to do any of those things without the certainty of supply. I was down there last week. They cannot even start talking partnerships until they know quantities. Hon KIM CHANCE: I have also been speaking to the small sawmill sector, indeed as recently as yesterday, and it has welcomed this process, over and above the pro rata process. Hon Peter Foss: It depends on which ones you have talked to. Hon KIM CHANCE: This was the association. Hon Peter Foss: Yes, but you start to talk to the little ones down south and you will get a different result. Hon KIM CHANCE: It is impossible to please everybody. I was rather hoping that the member would ask the question of which he has given me some notice and to which I have an answer - I am happy to talk with the member about it - because that explains the process rather better than I can do in the context of this question. The fact is that every sawmiller remaining - other than Blueleaf and Nannup, which have their contract volumes locked away - is in exactly the same position. Certainly, one could argue that Sotico has an advantage because it is bigger and better resourced, and, indeed, because it already had its proposition before the Government. The fact is that the Government will allow sufficient time for the smaller part of the mill sector to get those bids in. What the Government is asking those millers to show it will not necessarily require a great deal of expense, although it will require a little time and a little planning. However, I argue that that is planning that should be in place now if they believe they have a future in the sawmilling industry. Hon Peter Foss: A lot of them have it up in their heads; they don’t have it down on paper. Hon KIM CHANCE: If that is a problem to them, I recommend - this is an offer that the Government will make to them in any case - that they sit down with the Forest Products Commission on a one-to-one basis, and it will work through that process with them and provide them with whatever assistance they think they need. The Government was going to make that offer to them in any case.
Hon Peter Foss: You have had that for a couple of months, haven’t you? Hon KIM CHANCE: URS has provided the Minister for the Environment and me with a first draft of its report. I have had the opportunity to analyse the information in the first draft, as has the Minister for the Environment. I have yet to see a final draft of the URS report. However, I imagine that one is, or will shortly be, available. That report, of course, was commissioned by the Minister for the Environment, and I imagine Dr Judy Edwards will make a decision in the near future on a release date. The other variables are the final decisions that will be made on the national park boundaries. Again, that is a matter in which external, rather than political, advice will be a key determinant of where those boundaries will be, and how much of the state forest will be contained within those boundaries. A number of issues must be considered, including the decision that will be made on the moratorium blocks. Some of the issues that will be considered are how much of the state forest is to be contained in reserves, how representative those reserves are, and what effect that will have on the total balance of the state forest. It is a slow and frustrating process. Hon Peter Foss: How can you ask people to put in applications when they know now that there is not enough timber, especially for small millers? Hon KIM CHANCE: That is an interesting question. Hon Peter Foss: They reckon you are teasing them. Hon KIM CHANCE: No, I am not teasing them. At the moment, much as I would like to be able to say that there is a given volume, to a miller who is considering whether to exit the industry or to opt to stay in the industry by putting in a request for proposals or consideration of proposals, the question of the available volume is irrelevant. Hon Peter Foss: They don’t think so. Hon KIM CHANCE: No, at this time it is. I discussed this issue only yesterday with - Hon Peter Foss: If it will cost them money to do it, and there are inadequate quantities of timber, how can you expect them to spend all that money putting in a request when there will not be enough timber to keep both large and small mills going? Hon KIM CHANCE: Because any one miller has the same access to the available resource as any other miller. Nobody has priority, other than when contracts are already locked away, as is the case with Nannup Sawmill and Blueleaf Corporation Pty Ltd. Every other miller has the same opportunity now. Sotico Pty Ltd has made a bid, as the member is aware. Hon Peter Foss: Yes, and has loads of money to spend on it. The big problem is that the millers are saying it will cost them. The PRESIDENT: Order! It is not supplementary question time Hon KIM CHANCE: It will not necessarily be an expensive process. All the millers must detail is the volume of timber they believe they need to achieve a certain end, and they must be able to spell out what that end is. They must be able to demonstrate, for example, that while they do not intend to go beyond green sawn output, they have contracts, partnerships or some form of liaison in place with a value adder. Hon Peter Foss: All that is dependent on certainty of supply. Nobody is prepared to do any of those things without the certainty of supply. I was down there last week. They cannot even start talking partnerships until they know quantities. Hon KIM CHANCE: I have also been speaking to the small sawmill sector, indeed as recently as yesterday, and it has welcomed this process, over and above the pro rata process. Hon Peter Foss: It depends on which ones you have talked to. Hon KIM CHANCE: This was the association. Hon Peter Foss: Yes, but you start to talk to the little ones down south and you will get a different result. Hon KIM CHANCE: It is impossible to please everybody. I was rather hoping that the member would ask the question of which he has given me some notice and to which I have an answer - I am happy to talk with the member about it - because that explains the process rather better than I can do in the context of this question. The fact is that every sawmiller remaining - other than Blueleaf and Nannup, which have their contract volumes locked away - is in exactly the same position. Certainly, one could argue that Sotico has an advantage because it is bigger and better resourced, and, indeed, because it already had its proposition before the Government. The fact is that the Government will allow sufficient time for the smaller part of the mill sector to get those bids in. What the Government is asking those millers to show it will not necessarily require a great deal of expense, although it will require a little time and a little planning. However, I argue that that is planning that should be in place now if they believe they have a future in the sawmilling industry. Hon Peter Foss: A lot of them have it up in their heads; they don’t have it down on paper. Hon KIM CHANCE: If that is a problem to them, I recommend - this is an offer that the Government will make to them in any case - that they sit down with the Forest Products Commission on a one-to-one basis, and it will work through that process with them and provide them with whatever assistance they think they need. The Government was going to make that offer to them in any case.
Hon KIM CHANCE: URS has provided the Minister for the Environment and me with a first draft of its report. I have had the opportunity to analyse the information in the first draft, as has the Minister for the Environment. I have yet to see a final draft of the URS report. However, I imagine that one is, or will shortly be, available. That report, of course, was commissioned by the Minister for the Environment, and I imagine Dr Judy Edwards will make a decision in the near future on a release date. The other variables are the final decisions that will be made on the national park boundaries. Again, that is a matter in which external, rather than political, advice will be a key determinant of where those boundaries will be, and how much of the state forest will be contained within those boundaries. A number of issues must be considered, including the decision that will be made on the moratorium blocks. Some of the issues that will be considered are how much of the state forest is to be contained in reserves, how representative those reserves are, and what effect that will have on the total balance of the state forest. It is a slow and frustrating process. Hon Peter Foss: How can you ask people to put in applications when they know now that there is not enough timber, especially for small millers? Hon KIM CHANCE: That is an interesting question. Hon Peter Foss: They reckon you are teasing them. Hon KIM CHANCE: No, I am not teasing them. At the moment, much as I would like to be able to say that there is a given volume, to a miller who is considering whether to exit the industry or to opt to stay in the industry by putting in a request for proposals or consideration of proposals, the question of the available volume is irrelevant. Hon Peter Foss: They don’t think so. Hon KIM CHANCE: No, at this time it is. I discussed this issue only yesterday with - Hon Peter Foss: If it will cost them money to do it, and there are inadequate quantities of timber, how can you expect them to spend all that money putting in a request when there will not be enough timber to keep both large and small mills going? Hon KIM CHANCE: Because any one miller has the same access to the available resource as any other miller. Nobody has priority, other than when contracts are already locked away, as is the case with Nannup Sawmill and Blueleaf Corporation Pty Ltd. Every other miller has the same opportunity now. Sotico Pty Ltd has made a bid, as the member is aware. Hon Peter Foss: Yes, and has loads of money to spend on it. The big problem is that the millers are saying it will cost them. The PRESIDENT: Order! It is not supplementary question time Hon KIM CHANCE: It will not necessarily be an expensive process. All the millers must detail is the volume of timber they believe they need to achieve a certain end, and they must be able to spell out what that end is. They must be able to demonstrate, for example, that while they do not intend to go beyond green sawn output, they have contracts, partnerships or some form of liaison in place with a value adder. Hon Peter Foss: All that is dependent on certainty of supply. Nobody is prepared to do any of those things without the certainty of supply. I was down there last week. They cannot even start talking partnerships until they know quantities. Hon KIM CHANCE: I have also been speaking to the small sawmill sector, indeed as recently as yesterday, and it has welcomed this process, over and above the pro rata process. Hon Peter Foss: It depends on which ones you have talked to. Hon KIM CHANCE: This was the association. Hon Peter Foss: Yes, but you start to talk to the little ones down south and you will get a different result. Hon KIM CHANCE: It is impossible to please everybody. I was rather hoping that the member would ask the question of which he has given me some notice and to which I have an answer - I am happy to talk with the member about it - because that explains the process rather better than I can do in the context of this question. The fact is that every sawmiller remaining - other than Blueleaf and Nannup, which have their contract volumes locked away - is in exactly the same position. Certainly, one could argue that Sotico has an advantage because it is bigger and better resourced, and, indeed, because it already had its proposition before the Government. The fact is that the Government will allow sufficient time for the smaller part of the mill sector to get those bids in. What the Government is asking those millers to show it will not necessarily require a great deal of expense, although it will require a little time and a little planning. However, I argue that that is planning that should be in place now if they believe they have a future in the sawmilling industry. Hon Peter Foss: A lot of them have it up in their heads; they don’t have it down on paper. Hon KIM CHANCE: If that is a problem to them, I recommend - this is an offer that the Government will make to them in any case - that they sit down with the Forest Products Commission on a one-to-one basis, and it will work through that process with them and provide them with whatever assistance they think they need. The Government was going to make that offer to them in any case.
The other variables are the final decisions that will be made on the national park boundaries. Again, that is a matter in which external, rather than political, advice will be a key determinant of where those boundaries will be, and how much of the state forest will be contained within those boundaries. A number of issues must be considered, including the decision that will be made on the moratorium blocks. Some of the issues that will be considered are how much of the state forest is to be contained in reserves, how representative those reserves are, and what effect that will have on the total balance of the state forest. It is a slow and frustrating process. Hon Peter Foss: How can you ask people to put in applications when they know now that there is not enough timber, especially for small millers? Hon KIM CHANCE: That is an interesting question. Hon Peter Foss: They reckon you are teasing them. Hon KIM CHANCE: No, I am not teasing them. At the moment, much as I would like to be able to say that there is a given volume, to a miller who is considering whether to exit the industry or to opt to stay in the industry by putting in a request for proposals or consideration of proposals, the question of the available volume is irrelevant. Hon Peter Foss: They don’t think so. Hon KIM CHANCE: No, at this time it is. I discussed this issue only yesterday with - Hon Peter Foss: If it will cost them money to do it, and there are inadequate quantities of timber, how can you expect them to spend all that money putting in a request when there will not be enough timber to keep both large and small mills going? Hon KIM CHANCE: Because any one miller has the same access to the available resource as any other miller. Nobody has priority, other than when contracts are already locked away, as is the case with Nannup Sawmill and Blueleaf Corporation Pty Ltd. Every other miller has the same opportunity now. Sotico Pty Ltd has made a bid, as the member is aware. Hon Peter Foss: Yes, and has loads of money to spend on it. The big problem is that the millers are saying it will cost them. The PRESIDENT: Order! It is not supplementary question time Hon KIM CHANCE: It will not necessarily be an expensive process. All the millers must detail is the volume of timber they believe they need to achieve a certain end, and they must be able to spell out what that end is. They must be able to demonstrate, for example, that while they do not intend to go beyond green sawn output, they have contracts, partnerships or some form of liaison in place with a value adder. Hon Peter Foss: All that is dependent on certainty of supply. Nobody is prepared to do any of those things without the certainty of supply. I was down there last week. They cannot even start talking partnerships until they know quantities. Hon KIM CHANCE: I have also been speaking to the small sawmill sector, indeed as recently as yesterday, and it has welcomed this process, over and above the pro rata process. Hon Peter Foss: It depends on which ones you have talked to. Hon KIM CHANCE: This was the association. Hon Peter Foss: Yes, but you start to talk to the little ones down south and you will get a different result. Hon KIM CHANCE: It is impossible to please everybody. I was rather hoping that the member would ask the question of which he has given me some notice and to which I have an answer - I am happy to talk with the member about it - because that explains the process rather better than I can do in the context of this question. The fact is that every sawmiller remaining - other than Blueleaf and Nannup, which have their contract volumes locked away - is in exactly the same position. Certainly, one could argue that Sotico has an advantage because it is bigger and better resourced, and, indeed, because it already had its proposition before the Government. The fact is that the Government will allow sufficient time for the smaller part of the mill sector to get those bids in. What the Government is asking those millers to show it will not necessarily require a great deal of expense, although it will require a little time and a little planning. However, I argue that that is planning that should be in place now if they believe they have a future in the sawmilling industry. Hon Peter Foss: A lot of them have it up in their heads; they don’t have it down on paper. Hon KIM CHANCE: If that is a problem to them, I recommend - this is an offer that the Government will make to them in any case - that they sit down with the Forest Products Commission on a one-to-one basis, and it will work through that process with them and provide them with whatever assistance they think they need. The Government was going to make that offer to them in any case.
Hon Peter Foss: How can you ask people to put in applications when they know now that there is not enough timber, especially for small millers? Hon KIM CHANCE: That is an interesting question. Hon Peter Foss: They reckon you are teasing them. Hon KIM CHANCE: No, I am not teasing them. At the moment, much as I would like to be able to say that there is a given volume, to a miller who is considering whether to exit the industry or to opt to stay in the industry by putting in a request for proposals or consideration of proposals, the question of the available volume is irrelevant. Hon Peter Foss: They don’t think so. Hon KIM CHANCE: No, at this time it is. I discussed this issue only yesterday with - Hon Peter Foss: If it will cost them money to do it, and there are inadequate quantities of timber, how can you expect them to spend all that money putting in a request when there will not be enough timber to keep both large and small mills going? Hon KIM CHANCE: Because any one miller has the same access to the available resource as any other miller. Nobody has priority, other than when contracts are already locked away, as is the case with Nannup Sawmill and Blueleaf Corporation Pty Ltd. Every other miller has the same opportunity now. Sotico Pty Ltd has made a bid, as the member is aware. Hon Peter Foss: Yes, and has loads of money to spend on it. The big problem is that the millers are saying it will cost them. The PRESIDENT: Order! It is not supplementary question time Hon KIM CHANCE: It will not necessarily be an expensive process. All the millers must detail is the volume of timber they believe they need to achieve a certain end, and they must be able to spell out what that end is. They must be able to demonstrate, for example, that while they do not intend to go beyond green sawn output, they have contracts, partnerships or some form of liaison in place with a value adder. Hon Peter Foss: All that is dependent on certainty of supply. Nobody is prepared to do any of those things without the certainty of supply. I was down there last week. They cannot even start talking partnerships until they know quantities. Hon KIM CHANCE: I have also been speaking to the small sawmill sector, indeed as recently as yesterday, and it has welcomed this process, over and above the pro rata process. Hon Peter Foss: It depends on which ones you have talked to. Hon KIM CHANCE: This was the association. Hon Peter Foss: Yes, but you start to talk to the little ones down south and you will get a different result. Hon KIM CHANCE: It is impossible to please everybody. I was rather hoping that the member would ask the question of which he has given me some notice and to which I have an answer - I am happy to talk with the member about it - because that explains the process rather better than I can do in the context of this question. The fact is that every sawmiller remaining - other than Blueleaf and Nannup, which have their contract volumes locked away - is in exactly the same position. Certainly, one could argue that Sotico has an advantage because it is bigger and better resourced, and, indeed, because it already had its proposition before the Government. The fact is that the Government will allow sufficient time for the smaller part of the mill sector to get those bids in. What the Government is asking those millers to show it will not necessarily require a great deal of expense, although it will require a little time and a little planning. However, I argue that that is planning that should be in place now if they believe they have a future in the sawmilling industry. Hon Peter Foss: A lot of them have it up in their heads; they don’t have it down on paper. Hon KIM CHANCE: If that is a problem to them, I recommend - this is an offer that the Government will make to them in any case - that they sit down with the Forest Products Commission on a one-to-one basis, and it will work through that process with them and provide them with whatever assistance they think they need. The Government was going to make that offer to them in any case.
Hon KIM CHANCE: That is an interesting question. Hon Peter Foss: They reckon you are teasing them. Hon KIM CHANCE: No, I am not teasing them. At the moment, much as I would like to be able to say that there is a given volume, to a miller who is considering whether to exit the industry or to opt to stay in the industry by putting in a request for proposals or consideration of proposals, the question of the available volume is irrelevant. Hon Peter Foss: They don’t think so. Hon KIM CHANCE: No, at this time it is. I discussed this issue only yesterday with - Hon Peter Foss: If it will cost them money to do it, and there are inadequate quantities of timber, how can you expect them to spend all that money putting in a request when there will not be enough timber to keep both large and small mills going? Hon KIM CHANCE: Because any one miller has the same access to the available resource as any other miller. Nobody has priority, other than when contracts are already locked away, as is the case with Nannup Sawmill and Blueleaf Corporation Pty Ltd. Every other miller has the same opportunity now. Sotico Pty Ltd has made a bid, as the member is aware. Hon Peter Foss: Yes, and has loads of money to spend on it. The big problem is that the millers are saying it will cost them. The PRESIDENT: Order! It is not supplementary question time Hon KIM CHANCE: It will not necessarily be an expensive process. All the millers must detail is the volume of timber they believe they need to achieve a certain end, and they must be able to spell out what that end is. They must be able to demonstrate, for example, that while they do not intend to go beyond green sawn output, they have contracts, partnerships or some form of liaison in place with a value adder. Hon Peter Foss: All that is dependent on certainty of supply. Nobody is prepared to do any of those things without the certainty of supply. I was down there last week. They cannot even start talking partnerships until they know quantities. Hon KIM CHANCE: I have also been speaking to the small sawmill sector, indeed as recently as yesterday, and it has welcomed this process, over and above the pro rata process. Hon Peter Foss: It depends on which ones you have talked to. Hon KIM CHANCE: This was the association. Hon Peter Foss: Yes, but you start to talk to the little ones down south and you will get a different result. Hon KIM CHANCE: It is impossible to please everybody. I was rather hoping that the member would ask the question of which he has given me some notice and to which I have an answer - I am happy to talk with the member about it - because that explains the process rather better than I can do in the context of this question. The fact is that every sawmiller remaining - other than Blueleaf and Nannup, which have their contract volumes locked away - is in exactly the same position. Certainly, one could argue that Sotico has an advantage because it is bigger and better resourced, and, indeed, because it already had its proposition before the Government. The fact is that the Government will allow sufficient time for the smaller part of the mill sector to get those bids in. What the Government is asking those millers to show it will not necessarily require a great deal of expense, although it will require a little time and a little planning. However, I argue that that is planning that should be in place now if they believe they have a future in the sawmilling industry. Hon Peter Foss: A lot of them have it up in their heads; they don’t have it down on paper. Hon KIM CHANCE: If that is a problem to them, I recommend - this is an offer that the Government will make to them in any case - that they sit down with the Forest Products Commission on a one-to-one basis, and it will work through that process with them and provide them with whatever assistance they think they need. The Government was going to make that offer to them in any case.
Hon Peter Foss: They reckon you are teasing them. Hon KIM CHANCE: No, I am not teasing them. At the moment, much as I would like to be able to say that there is a given volume, to a miller who is considering whether to exit the industry or to opt to stay in the industry by putting in a request for proposals or consideration of proposals, the question of the available volume is irrelevant. Hon Peter Foss: They don’t think so. Hon KIM CHANCE: No, at this time it is. I discussed this issue only yesterday with - Hon Peter Foss: If it will cost them money to do it, and there are inadequate quantities of timber, how can you expect them to spend all that money putting in a request when there will not be enough timber to keep both large and small mills going? Hon KIM CHANCE: Because any one miller has the same access to the available resource as any other miller. Nobody has priority, other than when contracts are already locked away, as is the case with Nannup Sawmill and Blueleaf Corporation Pty Ltd. Every other miller has the same opportunity now. Sotico Pty Ltd has made a bid, as the member is aware. Hon Peter Foss: Yes, and has loads of money to spend on it. The big problem is that the millers are saying it will cost them. The PRESIDENT: Order! It is not supplementary question time Hon KIM CHANCE: It will not necessarily be an expensive process. All the millers must detail is the volume of timber they believe they need to achieve a certain end, and they must be able to spell out what that end is. They must be able to demonstrate, for example, that while they do not intend to go beyond green sawn output, they have contracts, partnerships or some form of liaison in place with a value adder. Hon Peter Foss: All that is dependent on certainty of supply. Nobody is prepared to do any of those things without the certainty of supply. I was down there last week. They cannot even start talking partnerships until they know quantities. Hon KIM CHANCE: I have also been speaking to the small sawmill sector, indeed as recently as yesterday, and it has welcomed this process, over and above the pro rata process. Hon Peter Foss: It depends on which ones you have talked to. Hon KIM CHANCE: This was the association. Hon Peter Foss: Yes, but you start to talk to the little ones down south and you will get a different result. Hon KIM CHANCE: It is impossible to please everybody. I was rather hoping that the member would ask the question of which he has given me some notice and to which I have an answer - I am happy to talk with the member about it - because that explains the process rather better than I can do in the context of this question. The fact is that every sawmiller remaining - other than Blueleaf and Nannup, which have their contract volumes locked away - is in exactly the same position. Certainly, one could argue that Sotico has an advantage because it is bigger and better resourced, and, indeed, because it already had its proposition before the Government. The fact is that the Government will allow sufficient time for the smaller part of the mill sector to get those bids in. What the Government is asking those millers to show it will not necessarily require a great deal of expense, although it will require a little time and a little planning. However, I argue that that is planning that should be in place now if they believe they have a future in the sawmilling industry. Hon Peter Foss: A lot of them have it up in their heads; they don’t have it down on paper. Hon KIM CHANCE: If that is a problem to them, I recommend - this is an offer that the Government will make to them in any case - that they sit down with the Forest Products Commission on a one-to-one basis, and it will work through that process with them and provide them with whatever assistance they think they need. The Government was going to make that offer to them in any case.
Hon KIM CHANCE: No, I am not teasing them. At the moment, much as I would like to be able to say that there is a given volume, to a miller who is considering whether to exit the industry or to opt to stay in the industry by putting in a request for proposals or consideration of proposals, the question of the available volume is irrelevant. Hon Peter Foss: They don’t think so. Hon KIM CHANCE: No, at this time it is. I discussed this issue only yesterday with - Hon Peter Foss: If it will cost them money to do it, and there are inadequate quantities of timber, how can you expect them to spend all that money putting in a request when there will not be enough timber to keep both large and small mills going? Hon KIM CHANCE: Because any one miller has the same access to the available resource as any other miller. Nobody has priority, other than when contracts are already locked away, as is the case with Nannup Sawmill and Blueleaf Corporation Pty Ltd. Every other miller has the same opportunity now. Sotico Pty Ltd has made a bid, as the member is aware. Hon Peter Foss: Yes, and has loads of money to spend on it. The big problem is that the millers are saying it will cost them. The PRESIDENT: Order! It is not supplementary question time Hon KIM CHANCE: It will not necessarily be an expensive process. All the millers must detail is the volume of timber they believe they need to achieve a certain end, and they must be able to spell out what that end is. They must be able to demonstrate, for example, that while they do not intend to go beyond green sawn output, they have contracts, partnerships or some form of liaison in place with a value adder. Hon Peter Foss: All that is dependent on certainty of supply. Nobody is prepared to do any of those things without the certainty of supply. I was down there last week. They cannot even start talking partnerships until they know quantities. Hon KIM CHANCE: I have also been speaking to the small sawmill sector, indeed as recently as yesterday, and it has welcomed this process, over and above the pro rata process. Hon Peter Foss: It depends on which ones you have talked to. Hon KIM CHANCE: This was the association. Hon Peter Foss: Yes, but you start to talk to the little ones down south and you will get a different result. Hon KIM CHANCE: It is impossible to please everybody. I was rather hoping that the member would ask the question of which he has given me some notice and to which I have an answer - I am happy to talk with the member about it - because that explains the process rather better than I can do in the context of this question. The fact is that every sawmiller remaining - other than Blueleaf and Nannup, which have their contract volumes locked away - is in exactly the same position. Certainly, one could argue that Sotico has an advantage because it is bigger and better resourced, and, indeed, because it already had its proposition before the Government. The fact is that the Government will allow sufficient time for the smaller part of the mill sector to get those bids in. What the Government is asking those millers to show it will not necessarily require a great deal of expense, although it will require a little time and a little planning. However, I argue that that is planning that should be in place now if they believe they have a future in the sawmilling industry. Hon Peter Foss: A lot of them have it up in their heads; they don’t have it down on paper. Hon KIM CHANCE: If that is a problem to them, I recommend - this is an offer that the Government will make to them in any case - that they sit down with the Forest Products Commission on a one-to-one basis, and it will work through that process with them and provide them with whatever assistance they think they need. The Government was going to make that offer to them in any case.
Hon Peter Foss: They don’t think so. Hon KIM CHANCE: No, at this time it is. I discussed this issue only yesterday with - Hon Peter Foss: If it will cost them money to do it, and there are inadequate quantities of timber, how can you expect them to spend all that money putting in a request when there will not be enough timber to keep both large and small mills going? Hon KIM CHANCE: Because any one miller has the same access to the available resource as any other miller. Nobody has priority, other than when contracts are already locked away, as is the case with Nannup Sawmill and Blueleaf Corporation Pty Ltd. Every other miller has the same opportunity now. Sotico Pty Ltd has made a bid, as the member is aware. Hon Peter Foss: Yes, and has loads of money to spend on it. The big problem is that the millers are saying it will cost them. The PRESIDENT: Order! It is not supplementary question time Hon KIM CHANCE: It will not necessarily be an expensive process. All the millers must detail is the volume of timber they believe they need to achieve a certain end, and they must be able to spell out what that end is. They must be able to demonstrate, for example, that while they do not intend to go beyond green sawn output, they have contracts, partnerships or some form of liaison in place with a value adder. Hon Peter Foss: All that is dependent on certainty of supply. Nobody is prepared to do any of those things without the certainty of supply. I was down there last week. They cannot even start talking partnerships until they know quantities. Hon KIM CHANCE: I have also been speaking to the small sawmill sector, indeed as recently as yesterday, and it has welcomed this process, over and above the pro rata process. Hon Peter Foss: It depends on which ones you have talked to. Hon KIM CHANCE: This was the association. Hon Peter Foss: Yes, but you start to talk to the little ones down south and you will get a different result. Hon KIM CHANCE: It is impossible to please everybody. I was rather hoping that the member would ask the question of which he has given me some notice and to which I have an answer - I am happy to talk with the member about it - because that explains the process rather better than I can do in the context of this question. The fact is that every sawmiller remaining - other than Blueleaf and Nannup, which have their contract volumes locked away - is in exactly the same position. Certainly, one could argue that Sotico has an advantage because it is bigger and better resourced, and, indeed, because it already had its proposition before the Government. The fact is that the Government will allow sufficient time for the smaller part of the mill sector to get those bids in. What the Government is asking those millers to show it will not necessarily require a great deal of expense, although it will require a little time and a little planning. However, I argue that that is planning that should be in place now if they believe they have a future in the sawmilling industry. Hon Peter Foss: A lot of them have it up in their heads; they don’t have it down on paper. Hon KIM CHANCE: If that is a problem to them, I recommend - this is an offer that the Government will make to them in any case - that they sit down with the Forest Products Commission on a one-to-one basis, and it will work through that process with them and provide them with whatever assistance they think they need. The Government was going to make that offer to them in any case.
Hon KIM CHANCE: No, at this time it is. I discussed this issue only yesterday with - Hon Peter Foss: If it will cost them money to do it, and there are inadequate quantities of timber, how can you expect them to spend all that money putting in a request when there will not be enough timber to keep both large and small mills going? Hon KIM CHANCE: Because any one miller has the same access to the available resource as any other miller. Nobody has priority, other than when contracts are already locked away, as is the case with Nannup Sawmill and Blueleaf Corporation Pty Ltd. Every other miller has the same opportunity now. Sotico Pty Ltd has made a bid, as the member is aware. Hon Peter Foss: Yes, and has loads of money to spend on it. The big problem is that the millers are saying it will cost them. The PRESIDENT: Order! It is not supplementary question time Hon KIM CHANCE: It will not necessarily be an expensive process. All the millers must detail is the volume of timber they believe they need to achieve a certain end, and they must be able to spell out what that end is. They must be able to demonstrate, for example, that while they do not intend to go beyond green sawn output, they have contracts, partnerships or some form of liaison in place with a value adder. Hon Peter Foss: All that is dependent on certainty of supply. Nobody is prepared to do any of those things without the certainty of supply. I was down there last week. They cannot even start talking partnerships until they know quantities. Hon KIM CHANCE: I have also been speaking to the small sawmill sector, indeed as recently as yesterday, and it has welcomed this process, over and above the pro rata process. Hon Peter Foss: It depends on which ones you have talked to. Hon KIM CHANCE: This was the association. Hon Peter Foss: Yes, but you start to talk to the little ones down south and you will get a different result. Hon KIM CHANCE: It is impossible to please everybody. I was rather hoping that the member would ask the question of which he has given me some notice and to which I have an answer - I am happy to talk with the member about it - because that explains the process rather better than I can do in the context of this question. The fact is that every sawmiller remaining - other than Blueleaf and Nannup, which have their contract volumes locked away - is in exactly the same position. Certainly, one could argue that Sotico has an advantage because it is bigger and better resourced, and, indeed, because it already had its proposition before the Government. The fact is that the Government will allow sufficient time for the smaller part of the mill sector to get those bids in. What the Government is asking those millers to show it will not necessarily require a great deal of expense, although it will require a little time and a little planning. However, I argue that that is planning that should be in place now if they believe they have a future in the sawmilling industry. Hon Peter Foss: A lot of them have it up in their heads; they don’t have it down on paper. Hon KIM CHANCE: If that is a problem to them, I recommend - this is an offer that the Government will make to them in any case - that they sit down with the Forest Products Commission on a one-to-one basis, and it will work through that process with them and provide them with whatever assistance they think they need. The Government was going to make that offer to them in any case.
Hon Peter Foss: If it will cost them money to do it, and there are inadequate quantities of timber, how can you expect them to spend all that money putting in a request when there will not be enough timber to keep both large and small mills going? Hon KIM CHANCE: Because any one miller has the same access to the available resource as any other miller. Nobody has priority, other than when contracts are already locked away, as is the case with Nannup Sawmill and Blueleaf Corporation Pty Ltd. Every other miller has the same opportunity now. Sotico Pty Ltd has made a bid, as the member is aware. Hon Peter Foss: Yes, and has loads of money to spend on it. The big problem is that the millers are saying it will cost them. The PRESIDENT: Order! It is not supplementary question time Hon KIM CHANCE: It will not necessarily be an expensive process. All the millers must detail is the volume of timber they believe they need to achieve a certain end, and they must be able to spell out what that end is. They must be able to demonstrate, for example, that while they do not intend to go beyond green sawn output, they have contracts, partnerships or some form of liaison in place with a value adder. Hon Peter Foss: All that is dependent on certainty of supply. Nobody is prepared to do any of those things without the certainty of supply. I was down there last week. They cannot even start talking partnerships until they know quantities. Hon KIM CHANCE: I have also been speaking to the small sawmill sector, indeed as recently as yesterday, and it has welcomed this process, over and above the pro rata process. Hon Peter Foss: It depends on which ones you have talked to. Hon KIM CHANCE: This was the association. Hon Peter Foss: Yes, but you start to talk to the little ones down south and you will get a different result. Hon KIM CHANCE: It is impossible to please everybody. I was rather hoping that the member would ask the question of which he has given me some notice and to which I have an answer - I am happy to talk with the member about it - because that explains the process rather better than I can do in the context of this question. The fact is that every sawmiller remaining - other than Blueleaf and Nannup, which have their contract volumes locked away - is in exactly the same position. Certainly, one could argue that Sotico has an advantage because it is bigger and better resourced, and, indeed, because it already had its proposition before the Government. The fact is that the Government will allow sufficient time for the smaller part of the mill sector to get those bids in. What the Government is asking those millers to show it will not necessarily require a great deal of expense, although it will require a little time and a little planning. However, I argue that that is planning that should be in place now if they believe they have a future in the sawmilling industry. Hon Peter Foss: A lot of them have it up in their heads; they don’t have it down on paper. Hon KIM CHANCE: If that is a problem to them, I recommend - this is an offer that the Government will make to them in any case - that they sit down with the Forest Products Commission on a one-to-one basis, and it will work through that process with them and provide them with whatever assistance they think they need. The Government was going to make that offer to them in any case.
Hon KIM CHANCE: Because any one miller has the same access to the available resource as any other miller. Nobody has priority, other than when contracts are already locked away, as is the case with Nannup Sawmill and Blueleaf Corporation Pty Ltd. Every other miller has the same opportunity now. Sotico Pty Ltd has made a bid, as the member is aware. Hon Peter Foss: Yes, and has loads of money to spend on it. The big problem is that the millers are saying it will cost them. The PRESIDENT: Order! It is not supplementary question time Hon KIM CHANCE: It will not necessarily be an expensive process. All the millers must detail is the volume of timber they believe they need to achieve a certain end, and they must be able to spell out what that end is. They must be able to demonstrate, for example, that while they do not intend to go beyond green sawn output, they have contracts, partnerships or some form of liaison in place with a value adder. Hon Peter Foss: All that is dependent on certainty of supply. Nobody is prepared to do any of those things without the certainty of supply. I was down there last week. They cannot even start talking partnerships until they know quantities. Hon KIM CHANCE: I have also been speaking to the small sawmill sector, indeed as recently as yesterday, and it has welcomed this process, over and above the pro rata process. Hon Peter Foss: It depends on which ones you have talked to. Hon KIM CHANCE: This was the association. Hon Peter Foss: Yes, but you start to talk to the little ones down south and you will get a different result. Hon KIM CHANCE: It is impossible to please everybody. I was rather hoping that the member would ask the question of which he has given me some notice and to which I have an answer - I am happy to talk with the member about it - because that explains the process rather better than I can do in the context of this question. The fact is that every sawmiller remaining - other than Blueleaf and Nannup, which have their contract volumes locked away - is in exactly the same position. Certainly, one could argue that Sotico has an advantage because it is bigger and better resourced, and, indeed, because it already had its proposition before the Government. The fact is that the Government will allow sufficient time for the smaller part of the mill sector to get those bids in. What the Government is asking those millers to show it will not necessarily require a great deal of expense, although it will require a little time and a little planning. However, I argue that that is planning that should be in place now if they believe they have a future in the sawmilling industry. Hon Peter Foss: A lot of them have it up in their heads; they don’t have it down on paper. Hon KIM CHANCE: If that is a problem to them, I recommend - this is an offer that the Government will make to them in any case - that they sit down with the Forest Products Commission on a one-to-one basis, and it will work through that process with them and provide them with whatever assistance they think they need. The Government was going to make that offer to them in any case.
Hon Peter Foss: Yes, and has loads of money to spend on it. The big problem is that the millers are saying it will cost them. The PRESIDENT: Order! It is not supplementary question time Hon KIM CHANCE: It will not necessarily be an expensive process. All the millers must detail is the volume of timber they believe they need to achieve a certain end, and they must be able to spell out what that end is. They must be able to demonstrate, for example, that while they do not intend to go beyond green sawn output, they have contracts, partnerships or some form of liaison in place with a value adder. Hon Peter Foss: All that is dependent on certainty of supply. Nobody is prepared to do any of those things without the certainty of supply. I was down there last week. They cannot even start talking partnerships until they know quantities. Hon KIM CHANCE: I have also been speaking to the small sawmill sector, indeed as recently as yesterday, and it has welcomed this process, over and above the pro rata process. Hon Peter Foss: It depends on which ones you have talked to. Hon KIM CHANCE: This was the association. Hon Peter Foss: Yes, but you start to talk to the little ones down south and you will get a different result. Hon KIM CHANCE: It is impossible to please everybody. I was rather hoping that the member would ask the question of which he has given me some notice and to which I have an answer - I am happy to talk with the member about it - because that explains the process rather better than I can do in the context of this question. The fact is that every sawmiller remaining - other than Blueleaf and Nannup, which have their contract volumes locked away - is in exactly the same position. Certainly, one could argue that Sotico has an advantage because it is bigger and better resourced, and, indeed, because it already had its proposition before the Government. The fact is that the Government will allow sufficient time for the smaller part of the mill sector to get those bids in. What the Government is asking those millers to show it will not necessarily require a great deal of expense, although it will require a little time and a little planning. However, I argue that that is planning that should be in place now if they believe they have a future in the sawmilling industry. Hon Peter Foss: A lot of them have it up in their heads; they don’t have it down on paper. Hon KIM CHANCE: If that is a problem to them, I recommend - this is an offer that the Government will make to them in any case - that they sit down with the Forest Products Commission on a one-to-one basis, and it will work through that process with them and provide them with whatever assistance they think they need. The Government was going to make that offer to them in any case.
The PRESIDENT: Order! It is not supplementary question time Hon KIM CHANCE: It will not necessarily be an expensive process. All the millers must detail is the volume of timber they believe they need to achieve a certain end, and they must be able to spell out what that end is. They must be able to demonstrate, for example, that while they do not intend to go beyond green sawn output, they have contracts, partnerships or some form of liaison in place with a value adder. Hon Peter Foss: All that is dependent on certainty of supply. Nobody is prepared to do any of those things without the certainty of supply. I was down there last week. They cannot even start talking partnerships until they know quantities. Hon KIM CHANCE: I have also been speaking to the small sawmill sector, indeed as recently as yesterday, and it has welcomed this process, over and above the pro rata process. Hon Peter Foss: It depends on which ones you have talked to. Hon KIM CHANCE: This was the association. Hon Peter Foss: Yes, but you start to talk to the little ones down south and you will get a different result. Hon KIM CHANCE: It is impossible to please everybody. I was rather hoping that the member would ask the question of which he has given me some notice and to which I have an answer - I am happy to talk with the member about it - because that explains the process rather better than I can do in the context of this question. The fact is that every sawmiller remaining - other than Blueleaf and Nannup, which have their contract volumes locked away - is in exactly the same position. Certainly, one could argue that Sotico has an advantage because it is bigger and better resourced, and, indeed, because it already had its proposition before the Government. The fact is that the Government will allow sufficient time for the smaller part of the mill sector to get those bids in. What the Government is asking those millers to show it will not necessarily require a great deal of expense, although it will require a little time and a little planning. However, I argue that that is planning that should be in place now if they believe they have a future in the sawmilling industry. Hon Peter Foss: A lot of them have it up in their heads; they don’t have it down on paper. Hon KIM CHANCE: If that is a problem to them, I recommend - this is an offer that the Government will make to them in any case - that they sit down with the Forest Products Commission on a one-to-one basis, and it will work through that process with them and provide them with whatever assistance they think they need. The Government was going to make that offer to them in any case.
Hon KIM CHANCE: It will not necessarily be an expensive process. All the millers must detail is the volume of timber they believe they need to achieve a certain end, and they must be able to spell out what that end is. They must be able to demonstrate, for example, that while they do not intend to go beyond green sawn output, they have contracts, partnerships or some form of liaison in place with a value adder. Hon Peter Foss: All that is dependent on certainty of supply. Nobody is prepared to do any of those things without the certainty of supply. I was down there last week. They cannot even start talking partnerships until they know quantities. Hon KIM CHANCE: I have also been speaking to the small sawmill sector, indeed as recently as yesterday, and it has welcomed this process, over and above the pro rata process. Hon Peter Foss: It depends on which ones you have talked to. Hon KIM CHANCE: This was the association. Hon Peter Foss: Yes, but you start to talk to the little ones down south and you will get a different result. Hon KIM CHANCE: It is impossible to please everybody. I was rather hoping that the member would ask the question of which he has given me some notice and to which I have an answer - I am happy to talk with the member about it - because that explains the process rather better than I can do in the context of this question. The fact is that every sawmiller remaining - other than Blueleaf and Nannup, which have their contract volumes locked away - is in exactly the same position. Certainly, one could argue that Sotico has an advantage because it is bigger and better resourced, and, indeed, because it already had its proposition before the Government. The fact is that the Government will allow sufficient time for the smaller part of the mill sector to get those bids in. What the Government is asking those millers to show it will not necessarily require a great deal of expense, although it will require a little time and a little planning. However, I argue that that is planning that should be in place now if they believe they have a future in the sawmilling industry. Hon Peter Foss: A lot of them have it up in their heads; they don’t have it down on paper. Hon KIM CHANCE: If that is a problem to them, I recommend - this is an offer that the Government will make to them in any case - that they sit down with the Forest Products Commission on a one-to-one basis, and it will work through that process with them and provide them with whatever assistance they think they need. The Government was going to make that offer to them in any case.
Hon Peter Foss: All that is dependent on certainty of supply. Nobody is prepared to do any of those things without the certainty of supply. I was down there last week. They cannot even start talking partnerships until they know quantities. Hon KIM CHANCE: I have also been speaking to the small sawmill sector, indeed as recently as yesterday, and it has welcomed this process, over and above the pro rata process. Hon Peter Foss: It depends on which ones you have talked to. Hon KIM CHANCE: This was the association. Hon Peter Foss: Yes, but you start to talk to the little ones down south and you will get a different result. Hon KIM CHANCE: It is impossible to please everybody. I was rather hoping that the member would ask the question of which he has given me some notice and to which I have an answer - I am happy to talk with the member about it - because that explains the process rather better than I can do in the context of this question. The fact is that every sawmiller remaining - other than Blueleaf and Nannup, which have their contract volumes locked away - is in exactly the same position. Certainly, one could argue that Sotico has an advantage because it is bigger and better resourced, and, indeed, because it already had its proposition before the Government. The fact is that the Government will allow sufficient time for the smaller part of the mill sector to get those bids in. What the Government is asking those millers to show it will not necessarily require a great deal of expense, although it will require a little time and a little planning. However, I argue that that is planning that should be in place now if they believe they have a future in the sawmilling industry. Hon Peter Foss: A lot of them have it up in their heads; they don’t have it down on paper. Hon KIM CHANCE: If that is a problem to them, I recommend - this is an offer that the Government will make to them in any case - that they sit down with the Forest Products Commission on a one-to-one basis, and it will work through that process with them and provide them with whatever assistance they think they need. The Government was going to make that offer to them in any case.
Hon KIM CHANCE: I have also been speaking to the small sawmill sector, indeed as recently as yesterday, and it has welcomed this process, over and above the pro rata process. Hon Peter Foss: It depends on which ones you have talked to. Hon KIM CHANCE: This was the association. Hon Peter Foss: Yes, but you start to talk to the little ones down south and you will get a different result. Hon KIM CHANCE: It is impossible to please everybody. I was rather hoping that the member would ask the question of which he has given me some notice and to which I have an answer - I am happy to talk with the member about it - because that explains the process rather better than I can do in the context of this question. The fact is that every sawmiller remaining - other than Blueleaf and Nannup, which have their contract volumes locked away - is in exactly the same position. Certainly, one could argue that Sotico has an advantage because it is bigger and better resourced, and, indeed, because it already had its proposition before the Government. The fact is that the Government will allow sufficient time for the smaller part of the mill sector to get those bids in. What the Government is asking those millers to show it will not necessarily require a great deal of expense, although it will require a little time and a little planning. However, I argue that that is planning that should be in place now if they believe they have a future in the sawmilling industry. Hon Peter Foss: A lot of them have it up in their heads; they don’t have it down on paper. Hon KIM CHANCE: If that is a problem to them, I recommend - this is an offer that the Government will make to them in any case - that they sit down with the Forest Products Commission on a one-to-one basis, and it will work through that process with them and provide them with whatever assistance they think they need. The Government was going to make that offer to them in any case.
Hon Peter Foss: It depends on which ones you have talked to. Hon KIM CHANCE: This was the association. Hon Peter Foss: Yes, but you start to talk to the little ones down south and you will get a different result. Hon KIM CHANCE: It is impossible to please everybody. I was rather hoping that the member would ask the question of which he has given me some notice and to which I have an answer - I am happy to talk with the member about it - because that explains the process rather better than I can do in the context of this question. The fact is that every sawmiller remaining - other than Blueleaf and Nannup, which have their contract volumes locked away - is in exactly the same position. Certainly, one could argue that Sotico has an advantage because it is bigger and better resourced, and, indeed, because it already had its proposition before the Government. The fact is that the Government will allow sufficient time for the smaller part of the mill sector to get those bids in. What the Government is asking those millers to show it will not necessarily require a great deal of expense, although it will require a little time and a little planning. However, I argue that that is planning that should be in place now if they believe they have a future in the sawmilling industry. Hon Peter Foss: A lot of them have it up in their heads; they don’t have it down on paper. Hon KIM CHANCE: If that is a problem to them, I recommend - this is an offer that the Government will make to them in any case - that they sit down with the Forest Products Commission on a one-to-one basis, and it will work through that process with them and provide them with whatever assistance they think they need. The Government was going to make that offer to them in any case.
Hon KIM CHANCE: This was the association. Hon Peter Foss: Yes, but you start to talk to the little ones down south and you will get a different result. Hon KIM CHANCE: It is impossible to please everybody. I was rather hoping that the member would ask the question of which he has given me some notice and to which I have an answer - I am happy to talk with the member about it - because that explains the process rather better than I can do in the context of this question. The fact is that every sawmiller remaining - other than Blueleaf and Nannup, which have their contract volumes locked away - is in exactly the same position. Certainly, one could argue that Sotico has an advantage because it is bigger and better resourced, and, indeed, because it already had its proposition before the Government. The fact is that the Government will allow sufficient time for the smaller part of the mill sector to get those bids in. What the Government is asking those millers to show it will not necessarily require a great deal of expense, although it will require a little time and a little planning. However, I argue that that is planning that should be in place now if they believe they have a future in the sawmilling industry. Hon Peter Foss: A lot of them have it up in their heads; they don’t have it down on paper. Hon KIM CHANCE: If that is a problem to them, I recommend - this is an offer that the Government will make to them in any case - that they sit down with the Forest Products Commission on a one-to-one basis, and it will work through that process with them and provide them with whatever assistance they think they need. The Government was going to make that offer to them in any case.
Hon Peter Foss: Yes, but you start to talk to the little ones down south and you will get a different result. Hon KIM CHANCE: It is impossible to please everybody. I was rather hoping that the member would ask the question of which he has given me some notice and to which I have an answer - I am happy to talk with the member about it - because that explains the process rather better than I can do in the context of this question. The fact is that every sawmiller remaining - other than Blueleaf and Nannup, which have their contract volumes locked away - is in exactly the same position. Certainly, one could argue that Sotico has an advantage because it is bigger and better resourced, and, indeed, because it already had its proposition before the Government. The fact is that the Government will allow sufficient time for the smaller part of the mill sector to get those bids in. What the Government is asking those millers to show it will not necessarily require a great deal of expense, although it will require a little time and a little planning. However, I argue that that is planning that should be in place now if they believe they have a future in the sawmilling industry. Hon Peter Foss: A lot of them have it up in their heads; they don’t have it down on paper. Hon KIM CHANCE: If that is a problem to them, I recommend - this is an offer that the Government will make to them in any case - that they sit down with the Forest Products Commission on a one-to-one basis, and it will work through that process with them and provide them with whatever assistance they think they need. The Government was going to make that offer to them in any case.
Hon KIM CHANCE: It is impossible to please everybody. I was rather hoping that the member would ask the question of which he has given me some notice and to which I have an answer - I am happy to talk with the member about it - because that explains the process rather better than I can do in the context of this question. The fact is that every sawmiller remaining - other than Blueleaf and Nannup, which have their contract volumes locked away - is in exactly the same position. Certainly, one could argue that Sotico has an advantage because it is bigger and better resourced, and, indeed, because it already had its proposition before the Government. The fact is that the Government will allow sufficient time for the smaller part of the mill sector to get those bids in. What the Government is asking those millers to show it will not necessarily require a great deal of expense, although it will require a little time and a little planning. However, I argue that that is planning that should be in place now if they believe they have a future in the sawmilling industry. Hon Peter Foss: A lot of them have it up in their heads; they don’t have it down on paper. Hon KIM CHANCE: If that is a problem to them, I recommend - this is an offer that the Government will make to them in any case - that they sit down with the Forest Products Commission on a one-to-one basis, and it will work through that process with them and provide them with whatever assistance they think they need. The Government was going to make that offer to them in any case.
Hon Peter Foss: A lot of them have it up in their heads; they don’t have it down on paper. Hon KIM CHANCE: If that is a problem to them, I recommend - this is an offer that the Government will make to them in any case - that they sit down with the Forest Products Commission on a one-to-one basis, and it will work through that process with them and provide them with whatever assistance they think they need. The Government was going to make that offer to them in any case.
Hon KIM CHANCE: If that is a problem to them, I recommend - this is an offer that the Government will make to them in any case - that they sit down with the Forest Products Commission on a one-to-one basis, and it will work through that process with them and provide them with whatever assistance they think they need. The Government was going to make that offer to them in any case.
Hon KIM CHANCE replied: Nothing would give me greater pleasure than to be able to say to the timber industry the allocated volumes for jarrah to 2014 will be 180 000 cubic metres or a larger volume. Regrettably, neither I nor anyone in government can say that with certainty until the forest management plan has been concluded. Hon Peter Foss: What about the moratorium blocks? Hon KIM CHANCE: I will answer that question. I am not trying to evade the question. However, we need to address the broader issue first. Regrettably, nobody in government, including me, is able to say with certainty what that volume will be, because, as the member knows, the forest management plan relies for its determination upon the decisions of outside bodies, the Conservation Commission being one of those bodies. It is an extensive process and one which, perhaps necessarily so, relies on external advice, and is not a political decision. However, I would much prefer the scenario whereby government was able to make that decision and take the responsibility for it, as it does in so many other areas of the management of the economy. I am sure Hon Peter Foss understands that, but many other members may not have understood that. I will now deal with moratorium blocks and other issues. For members’ information, apart from the decision on the FMP, there are really three issues of determination that will have an effect on the final volume, the first of which has been identified by Hon Peter Foss to be the decision on the moratorium blocks. The moratorium blocks are essentially the blocks contained in the 25 000 hectares of the proposed Wellington National Park, which includes blocks such as, I think, Davis, Lowden, Westralia, and a couple of others that I cannot remember, as well as three other blocks. Helms is one such block. I used to be able to spit these out. Hon Peter Foss: Anyway, we know what they are. Hon KIM CHANCE: There are three other blocks. A consultant has been engaged to do an assessment of the economic, environmental and social value of those blocks. That consultant, URS Australia Pty Ltd, is well known in the forestry and environment area. Hon Peter Foss: You have had that for a couple of months, haven’t you? Hon KIM CHANCE: URS has provided the Minister for the Environment and me with a first draft of its report. I have had the opportunity to analyse the information in the first draft, as has the Minister for the Environment. I have yet to see a final draft of the URS report. However, I imagine that one is, or will shortly be, available. That report, of course, was commissioned by the Minister for the Environment, and I imagine Dr Judy Edwards will make a decision in the near future on a release date. The other variables are the final decisions that will be made on the national park boundaries. Again, that is a matter in which external, rather than political, advice will be a key determinant of where those boundaries will be, and how much of the state forest will be contained within those boundaries. A number of issues must be considered, including the decision that will be made on the moratorium blocks. Some of the issues that will be considered are how much of the state forest is to be contained in reserves, how representative those reserves are, and what effect that will have on the total balance of the state forest. It is a slow and frustrating process. Hon Peter Foss: How can you ask people to put in applications when they know now that there is not enough timber, especially for small millers? Hon KIM CHANCE: That is an interesting question. Hon Peter Foss: They reckon you are teasing them. Hon KIM CHANCE: No, I am not teasing them. At the moment, much as I would like to be able to say that there is a given volume, to a miller who is considering whether to exit the industry or to opt to stay in the industry by putting in a request for proposals or consideration of proposals, the question of the available volume is irrelevant. Hon Peter Foss: They don’t think so. Hon KIM CHANCE: No, at this time it is. I discussed this issue only yesterday with - Hon Peter Foss: If it will cost them money to do it, and there are inadequate quantities of timber, how can you expect them to spend all that money putting in a request when there will not be enough timber to keep both large and small mills going? Hon KIM CHANCE: Because any one miller has the same access to the available resource as any other miller. Nobody has priority, other than when contracts are already locked away, as is the case with Nannup Sawmill and Blueleaf Corporation Pty Ltd. Every other miller has the same opportunity now. Sotico Pty Ltd has made a bid, as the member is aware. Hon Peter Foss: Yes, and has loads of money to spend on it. The big problem is that the millers are saying it will cost them. The PRESIDENT: Order! It is not supplementary question time Hon KIM CHANCE: It will not necessarily be an expensive process. All the millers must detail is the volume of timber they believe they need to achieve a certain end, and they must be able to spell out what that end is. They must be able to demonstrate, for example, that while they do not intend to go beyond green sawn output, they have contracts, partnerships or some form of liaison in place with a value adder. Hon Peter Foss: All that is dependent on certainty of supply. Nobody is prepared to do any of those things without the certainty of supply. I was down there last week. They cannot even start talking partnerships until they know quantities. Hon KIM CHANCE: I have also been speaking to the small sawmill sector, indeed as recently as yesterday, and it has welcomed this process, over and above the pro rata process. Hon Peter Foss: It depends on which ones you have talked to. Hon KIM CHANCE: This was the association. Hon Peter Foss: Yes, but you start to talk to the little ones down south and you will get a different result. Hon KIM CHANCE: It is impossible to please everybody. I was rather hoping that the member would ask the question of which he has given me some notice and to which I have an answer - I am happy to talk with the member about it - because that explains the process rather better than I can do in the context of this question. The fact is that every sawmiller remaining - other than Blueleaf and Nannup, which have their contract volumes locked away - is in exactly the same position. Certainly, one could argue that Sotico has an advantage because it is bigger and better resourced, and, indeed, because it already had its proposition before the Government. The fact is that the Government will allow sufficient time for the smaller part of the mill sector to get those bids in. What the Government is asking those millers to show it will not necessarily require a great deal of expense, although it will require a little time and a little planning. However, I argue that that is planning that should be in place now if they believe they have a future in the sawmilling industry. Hon Peter Foss: A lot of them have it up in their heads; they don’t have it down on paper. Hon KIM CHANCE: If that is a problem to them, I recommend - this is an offer that the Government will make to them in any case - that they sit down with the Forest Products Commission on a one-to-one basis, and it will work through that process with them and provide them with whatever assistance they think they need. The Government was going to make that offer to them in any case.
Nothing would give me greater pleasure than to be able to say to the timber industry the allocated volumes for jarrah to 2014 will be 180 000 cubic metres or a larger volume. Regrettably, neither I nor anyone in government can say that with certainty until the forest management plan has been concluded. Hon Peter Foss: What about the moratorium blocks? Hon KIM CHANCE: I will answer that question. I am not trying to evade the question. However, we need to address the broader issue first. Regrettably, nobody in government, including me, is able to say with certainty what that volume will be, because, as the member knows, the forest management plan relies for its determination upon the decisions of outside bodies, the Conservation Commission being one of those bodies. It is an extensive process and one which, perhaps necessarily so, relies on external advice, and is not a political decision. However, I would much prefer the scenario whereby government was able to make that decision and take the responsibility for it, as it does in so many other areas of the management of the economy. I am sure Hon Peter Foss understands that, but many other members may not have understood that. I will now deal with moratorium blocks and other issues. For members’ information, apart from the decision on the FMP, there are really three issues of determination that will have an effect on the final volume, the first of which has been identified by Hon Peter Foss to be the decision on the moratorium blocks. The moratorium blocks are essentially the blocks contained in the 25 000 hectares of the proposed Wellington National Park, which includes blocks such as, I think, Davis, Lowden, Westralia, and a couple of others that I cannot remember, as well as three other blocks. Helms is one such block. I used to be able to spit these out. Hon Peter Foss: Anyway, we know what they are. Hon KIM CHANCE: There are three other blocks. A consultant has been engaged to do an assessment of the economic, environmental and social value of those blocks. That consultant, URS Australia Pty Ltd, is well known in the forestry and environment area. Hon Peter Foss: You have had that for a couple of months, haven’t you? Hon KIM CHANCE: URS has provided the Minister for the Environment and me with a first draft of its report. I have had the opportunity to analyse the information in the first draft, as has the Minister for the Environment. I have yet to see a final draft of the URS report. However, I imagine that one is, or will shortly be, available. That report, of course, was commissioned by the Minister for the Environment, and I imagine Dr Judy Edwards will make a decision in the near future on a release date. The other variables are the final decisions that will be made on the national park boundaries. Again, that is a matter in which external, rather than political, advice will be a key determinant of where those boundaries will be, and how much of the state forest will be contained within those boundaries. A number of issues must be considered, including the decision that will be made on the moratorium blocks. Some of the issues that will be considered are how much of the state forest is to be contained in reserves, how representative those reserves are, and what effect that will have on the total balance of the state forest. It is a slow and frustrating process. Hon Peter Foss: How can you ask people to put in applications when they know now that there is not enough timber, especially for small millers? Hon KIM CHANCE: That is an interesting question. Hon Peter Foss: They reckon you are teasing them. Hon KIM CHANCE: No, I am not teasing them. At the moment, much as I would like to be able to say that there is a given volume, to a miller who is considering whether to exit the industry or to opt to stay in the industry by putting in a request for proposals or consideration of proposals, the question of the available volume is irrelevant. Hon Peter Foss: They don’t think so. Hon KIM CHANCE: No, at this time it is. I discussed this issue only yesterday with - Hon Peter Foss: If it will cost them money to do it, and there are inadequate quantities of timber, how can you expect them to spend all that money putting in a request when there will not be enough timber to keep both large and small mills going? Hon KIM CHANCE: Because any one miller has the same access to the available resource as any other miller. Nobody has priority, other than when contracts are already locked away, as is the case with Nannup Sawmill and Blueleaf Corporation Pty Ltd. Every other miller has the same opportunity now. Sotico Pty Ltd has made a bid, as the member is aware. Hon Peter Foss: Yes, and has loads of money to spend on it. The big problem is that the millers are saying it will cost them. The PRESIDENT: Order! It is not supplementary question time Hon KIM CHANCE: It will not necessarily be an expensive process. All the millers must detail is the volume of timber they believe they need to achieve a certain end, and they must be able to spell out what that end is. They must be able to demonstrate, for example, that while they do not intend to go beyond green sawn output, they have contracts, partnerships or some form of liaison in place with a value adder. Hon Peter Foss: All that is dependent on certainty of supply. Nobody is prepared to do any of those things without the certainty of supply. I was down there last week. They cannot even start talking partnerships until they know quantities. Hon KIM CHANCE: I have also been speaking to the small sawmill sector, indeed as recently as yesterday, and it has welcomed this process, over and above the pro rata process. Hon Peter Foss: It depends on which ones you have talked to. Hon KIM CHANCE: This was the association. Hon Peter Foss: Yes, but you start to talk to the little ones down south and you will get a different result. Hon KIM CHANCE: It is impossible to please everybody. I was rather hoping that the member would ask the question of which he has given me some notice and to which I have an answer - I am happy to talk with the member about it - because that explains the process rather better than I can do in the context of this question. The fact is that every sawmiller remaining - other than Blueleaf and Nannup, which have their contract volumes locked away - is in exactly the same position. Certainly, one could argue that Sotico has an advantage because it is bigger and better resourced, and, indeed, because it already had its proposition before the Government. The fact is that the Government will allow sufficient time for the smaller part of the mill sector to get those bids in. What the Government is asking those millers to show it will not necessarily require a great deal of expense, although it will require a little time and a little planning. However, I argue that that is planning that should be in place now if they believe they have a future in the sawmilling industry. Hon Peter Foss: A lot of them have it up in their heads; they don’t have it down on paper. Hon KIM CHANCE: If that is a problem to them, I recommend - this is an offer that the Government will make to them in any case - that they sit down with the Forest Products Commission on a one-to-one basis, and it will work through that process with them and provide them with whatever assistance they think they need. The Government was going to make that offer to them in any case.
Hon Peter Foss: What about the moratorium blocks? Hon KIM CHANCE: I will answer that question. I am not trying to evade the question. However, we need to address the broader issue first. Regrettably, nobody in government, including me, is able to say with certainty what that volume will be, because, as the member knows, the forest management plan relies for its determination upon the decisions of outside bodies, the Conservation Commission being one of those bodies. It is an extensive process and one which, perhaps necessarily so, relies on external advice, and is not a political decision. However, I would much prefer the scenario whereby government was able to make that decision and take the responsibility for it, as it does in so many other areas of the management of the economy. I am sure Hon Peter Foss understands that, but many other members may not have understood that. I will now deal with moratorium blocks and other issues. For members’ information, apart from the decision on the FMP, there are really three issues of determination that will have an effect on the final volume, the first of which has been identified by Hon Peter Foss to be the decision on the moratorium blocks. The moratorium blocks are essentially the blocks contained in the 25 000 hectares of the proposed Wellington National Park, which includes blocks such as, I think, Davis, Lowden, Westralia, and a couple of others that I cannot remember, as well as three other blocks. Helms is one such block. I used to be able to spit these out. Hon Peter Foss: Anyway, we know what they are. Hon KIM CHANCE: There are three other blocks. A consultant has been engaged to do an assessment of the economic, environmental and social value of those blocks. That consultant, URS Australia Pty Ltd, is well known in the forestry and environment area. Hon Peter Foss: You have had that for a couple of months, haven’t you? Hon KIM CHANCE: URS has provided the Minister for the Environment and me with a first draft of its report. I have had the opportunity to analyse the information in the first draft, as has the Minister for the Environment. I have yet to see a final draft of the URS report. However, I imagine that one is, or will shortly be, available. That report, of course, was commissioned by the Minister for the Environment, and I imagine Dr Judy Edwards will make a decision in the near future on a release date. The other variables are the final decisions that will be made on the national park boundaries. Again, that is a matter in which external, rather than political, advice will be a key determinant of where those boundaries will be, and how much of the state forest will be contained within those boundaries. A number of issues must be considered, including the decision that will be made on the moratorium blocks. Some of the issues that will be considered are how much of the state forest is to be contained in reserves, how representative those reserves are, and what effect that will have on the total balance of the state forest. It is a slow and frustrating process. Hon Peter Foss: How can you ask people to put in applications when they know now that there is not enough timber, especially for small millers? Hon KIM CHANCE: That is an interesting question. Hon Peter Foss: They reckon you are teasing them. Hon KIM CHANCE: No, I am not teasing them. At the moment, much as I would like to be able to say that there is a given volume, to a miller who is considering whether to exit the industry or to opt to stay in the industry by putting in a request for proposals or consideration of proposals, the question of the available volume is irrelevant. Hon Peter Foss: They don’t think so. Hon KIM CHANCE: No, at this time it is. I discussed this issue only yesterday with - Hon Peter Foss: If it will cost them money to do it, and there are inadequate quantities of timber, how can you expect them to spend all that money putting in a request when there will not be enough timber to keep both large and small mills going? Hon KIM CHANCE: Because any one miller has the same access to the available resource as any other miller. Nobody has priority, other than when contracts are already locked away, as is the case with Nannup Sawmill and Blueleaf Corporation Pty Ltd. Every other miller has the same opportunity now. Sotico Pty Ltd has made a bid, as the member is aware. Hon Peter Foss: Yes, and has loads of money to spend on it. The big problem is that the millers are saying it will cost them. The PRESIDENT: Order! It is not supplementary question time Hon KIM CHANCE: It will not necessarily be an expensive process. All the millers must detail is the volume of timber they believe they need to achieve a certain end, and they must be able to spell out what that end is. They must be able to demonstrate, for example, that while they do not intend to go beyond green sawn output, they have contracts, partnerships or some form of liaison in place with a value adder. Hon Peter Foss: All that is dependent on certainty of supply. Nobody is prepared to do any of those things without the certainty of supply. I was down there last week. They cannot even start talking partnerships until they know quantities. Hon KIM CHANCE: I have also been speaking to the small sawmill sector, indeed as recently as yesterday, and it has welcomed this process, over and above the pro rata process. Hon Peter Foss: It depends on which ones you have talked to. Hon KIM CHANCE: This was the association. Hon Peter Foss: Yes, but you start to talk to the little ones down south and you will get a different result. Hon KIM CHANCE: It is impossible to please everybody. I was rather hoping that the member would ask the question of which he has given me some notice and to which I have an answer - I am happy to talk with the member about it - because that explains the process rather better than I can do in the context of this question. The fact is that every sawmiller remaining - other than Blueleaf and Nannup, which have their contract volumes locked away - is in exactly the same position. Certainly, one could argue that Sotico has an advantage because it is bigger and better resourced, and, indeed, because it already had its proposition before the Government. The fact is that the Government will allow sufficient time for the smaller part of the mill sector to get those bids in. What the Government is asking those millers to show it will not necessarily require a great deal of expense, although it will require a little time and a little planning. However, I argue that that is planning that should be in place now if they believe they have a future in the sawmilling industry. Hon Peter Foss: A lot of them have it up in their heads; they don’t have it down on paper. Hon KIM CHANCE: If that is a problem to them, I recommend - this is an offer that the Government will make to them in any case - that they sit down with the Forest Products Commission on a one-to-one basis, and it will work through that process with them and provide them with whatever assistance they think they need. The Government was going to make that offer to them in any case.
Hon KIM CHANCE: I will answer that question. I am not trying to evade the question. However, we need to address the broader issue first. Regrettably, nobody in government, including me, is able to say with certainty what that volume will be, because, as the member knows, the forest management plan relies for its determination upon the decisions of outside bodies, the Conservation Commission being one of those bodies. It is an extensive process and one which, perhaps necessarily so, relies on external advice, and is not a political decision. However, I would much prefer the scenario whereby government was able to make that decision and take the responsibility for it, as it does in so many other areas of the management of the economy. I am sure Hon Peter Foss understands that, but many other members may not have understood that. I will now deal with moratorium blocks and other issues. For members’ information, apart from the decision on the FMP, there are really three issues of determination that will have an effect on the final volume, the first of which has been identified by Hon Peter Foss to be the decision on the moratorium blocks. The moratorium blocks are essentially the blocks contained in the 25 000 hectares of the proposed Wellington National Park, which includes blocks such as, I think, Davis, Lowden, Westralia, and a couple of others that I cannot remember, as well as three other blocks. Helms is one such block. I used to be able to spit these out. Hon Peter Foss: Anyway, we know what they are. Hon KIM CHANCE: There are three other blocks. A consultant has been engaged to do an assessment of the economic, environmental and social value of those blocks. That consultant, URS Australia Pty Ltd, is well known in the forestry and environment area. Hon Peter Foss: You have had that for a couple of months, haven’t you? Hon KIM CHANCE: URS has provided the Minister for the Environment and me with a first draft of its report. I have had the opportunity to analyse the information in the first draft, as has the Minister for the Environment. I have yet to see a final draft of the URS report. However, I imagine that one is, or will shortly be, available. That report, of course, was commissioned by the Minister for the Environment, and I imagine Dr Judy Edwards will make a decision in the near future on a release date. The other variables are the final decisions that will be made on the national park boundaries. Again, that is a matter in which external, rather than political, advice will be a key determinant of where those boundaries will be, and how much of the state forest will be contained within those boundaries. A number of issues must be considered, including the decision that will be made on the moratorium blocks. Some of the issues that will be considered are how much of the state forest is to be contained in reserves, how representative those reserves are, and what effect that will have on the total balance of the state forest. It is a slow and frustrating process. Hon Peter Foss: How can you ask people to put in applications when they know now that there is not enough timber, especially for small millers? Hon KIM CHANCE: That is an interesting question. Hon Peter Foss: They reckon you are teasing them. Hon KIM CHANCE: No, I am not teasing them. At the moment, much as I would like to be able to say that there is a given volume, to a miller who is considering whether to exit the industry or to opt to stay in the industry by putting in a request for proposals or consideration of proposals, the question of the available volume is irrelevant. Hon Peter Foss: They don’t think so. Hon KIM CHANCE: No, at this time it is. I discussed this issue only yesterday with - Hon Peter Foss: If it will cost them money to do it, and there are inadequate quantities of timber, how can you expect them to spend all that money putting in a request when there will not be enough timber to keep both large and small mills going? Hon KIM CHANCE: Because any one miller has the same access to the available resource as any other miller. Nobody has priority, other than when contracts are already locked away, as is the case with Nannup Sawmill and Blueleaf Corporation Pty Ltd. Every other miller has the same opportunity now. Sotico Pty Ltd has made a bid, as the member is aware. Hon Peter Foss: Yes, and has loads of money to spend on it. The big problem is that the millers are saying it will cost them. The PRESIDENT: Order! It is not supplementary question time Hon KIM CHANCE: It will not necessarily be an expensive process. All the millers must detail is the volume of timber they believe they need to achieve a certain end, and they must be able to spell out what that end is. They must be able to demonstrate, for example, that while they do not intend to go beyond green sawn output, they have contracts, partnerships or some form of liaison in place with a value adder. Hon Peter Foss: All that is dependent on certainty of supply. Nobody is prepared to do any of those things without the certainty of supply. I was down there last week. They cannot even start talking partnerships until they know quantities. Hon KIM CHANCE: I have also been speaking to the small sawmill sector, indeed as recently as yesterday, and it has welcomed this process, over and above the pro rata process. Hon Peter Foss: It depends on which ones you have talked to. Hon KIM CHANCE: This was the association. Hon Peter Foss: Yes, but you start to talk to the little ones down south and you will get a different result. Hon KIM CHANCE: It is impossible to please everybody. I was rather hoping that the member would ask the question of which he has given me some notice and to which I have an answer - I am happy to talk with the member about it - because that explains the process rather better than I can do in the context of this question. The fact is that every sawmiller remaining - other than Blueleaf and Nannup, which have their contract volumes locked away - is in exactly the same position. Certainly, one could argue that Sotico has an advantage because it is bigger and better resourced, and, indeed, because it already had its proposition before the Government. The fact is that the Government will allow sufficient time for the smaller part of the mill sector to get those bids in. What the Government is asking those millers to show it will not necessarily require a great deal of expense, although it will require a little time and a little planning. However, I argue that that is planning that should be in place now if they believe they have a future in the sawmilling industry. Hon Peter Foss: A lot of them have it up in their heads; they don’t have it down on paper. Hon KIM CHANCE: If that is a problem to them, I recommend - this is an offer that the Government will make to them in any case - that they sit down with the Forest Products Commission on a one-to-one basis, and it will work through that process with them and provide them with whatever assistance they think they need. The Government was going to make that offer to them in any case.
I will now deal with moratorium blocks and other issues. For members’ information, apart from the decision on the FMP, there are really three issues of determination that will have an effect on the final volume, the first of which has been identified by Hon Peter Foss to be the decision on the moratorium blocks. The moratorium blocks are essentially the blocks contained in the 25 000 hectares of the proposed Wellington National Park, which includes blocks such as, I think, Davis, Lowden, Westralia, and a couple of others that I cannot remember, as well as three other blocks. Helms is one such block. I used to be able to spit these out. Hon Peter Foss: Anyway, we know what they are. Hon KIM CHANCE: There are three other blocks. A consultant has been engaged to do an assessment of the economic, environmental and social value of those blocks. That consultant, URS Australia Pty Ltd, is well known in the forestry and environment area. Hon Peter Foss: You have had that for a couple of months, haven’t you? Hon KIM CHANCE: URS has provided the Minister for the Environment and me with a first draft of its report. I have had the opportunity to analyse the information in the first draft, as has the Minister for the Environment. I have yet to see a final draft of the URS report. However, I imagine that one is, or will shortly be, available. That report, of course, was commissioned by the Minister for the Environment, and I imagine Dr Judy Edwards will make a decision in the near future on a release date. The other variables are the final decisions that will be made on the national park boundaries. Again, that is a matter in which external, rather than political, advice will be a key determinant of where those boundaries will be, and how much of the state forest will be contained within those boundaries. A number of issues must be considered, including the decision that will be made on the moratorium blocks. Some of the issues that will be considered are how much of the state forest is to be contained in reserves, how representative those reserves are, and what effect that will have on the total balance of the state forest. It is a slow and frustrating process. Hon Peter Foss: How can you ask people to put in applications when they know now that there is not enough timber, especially for small millers? Hon KIM CHANCE: That is an interesting question. Hon Peter Foss: They reckon you are teasing them. Hon KIM CHANCE: No, I am not teasing them. At the moment, much as I would like to be able to say that there is a given volume, to a miller who is considering whether to exit the industry or to opt to stay in the industry by putting in a request for proposals or consideration of proposals, the question of the available volume is irrelevant. Hon Peter Foss: They don’t think so. Hon KIM CHANCE: No, at this time it is. I discussed this issue only yesterday with - Hon Peter Foss: If it will cost them money to do it, and there are inadequate quantities of timber, how can you expect them to spend all that money putting in a request when there will not be enough timber to keep both large and small mills going? Hon KIM CHANCE: Because any one miller has the same access to the available resource as any other miller. Nobody has priority, other than when contracts are already locked away, as is the case with Nannup Sawmill and Blueleaf Corporation Pty Ltd. Every other miller has the same opportunity now. Sotico Pty Ltd has made a bid, as the member is aware. Hon Peter Foss: Yes, and has loads of money to spend on it. The big problem is that the millers are saying it will cost them. The PRESIDENT: Order! It is not supplementary question time Hon KIM CHANCE: It will not necessarily be an expensive process. All the millers must detail is the volume of timber they believe they need to achieve a certain end, and they must be able to spell out what that end is. They must be able to demonstrate, for example, that while they do not intend to go beyond green sawn output, they have contracts, partnerships or some form of liaison in place with a value adder. Hon Peter Foss: All that is dependent on certainty of supply. Nobody is prepared to do any of those things without the certainty of supply. I was down there last week. They cannot even start talking partnerships until they know quantities. Hon KIM CHANCE: I have also been speaking to the small sawmill sector, indeed as recently as yesterday, and it has welcomed this process, over and above the pro rata process. Hon Peter Foss: It depends on which ones you have talked to. Hon KIM CHANCE: This was the association. Hon Peter Foss: Yes, but you start to talk to the little ones down south and you will get a different result. Hon KIM CHANCE: It is impossible to please everybody. I was rather hoping that the member would ask the question of which he has given me some notice and to which I have an answer - I am happy to talk with the member about it - because that explains the process rather better than I can do in the context of this question. The fact is that every sawmiller remaining - other than Blueleaf and Nannup, which have their contract volumes locked away - is in exactly the same position. Certainly, one could argue that Sotico has an advantage because it is bigger and better resourced, and, indeed, because it already had its proposition before the Government. The fact is that the Government will allow sufficient time for the smaller part of the mill sector to get those bids in. What the Government is asking those millers to show it will not necessarily require a great deal of expense, although it will require a little time and a little planning. However, I argue that that is planning that should be in place now if they believe they have a future in the sawmilling industry. Hon Peter Foss: A lot of them have it up in their heads; they don’t have it down on paper. Hon KIM CHANCE: If that is a problem to them, I recommend - this is an offer that the Government will make to them in any case - that they sit down with the Forest Products Commission on a one-to-one basis, and it will work through that process with them and provide them with whatever assistance they think they need. The Government was going to make that offer to them in any case.
Hon Peter Foss: Anyway, we know what they are. Hon KIM CHANCE: There are three other blocks. A consultant has been engaged to do an assessment of the economic, environmental and social value of those blocks. That consultant, URS Australia Pty Ltd, is well known in the forestry and environment area. Hon Peter Foss: You have had that for a couple of months, haven’t you? Hon KIM CHANCE: URS has provided the Minister for the Environment and me with a first draft of its report. I have had the opportunity to analyse the information in the first draft, as has the Minister for the Environment. I have yet to see a final draft of the URS report. However, I imagine that one is, or will shortly be, available. That report, of course, was commissioned by the Minister for the Environment, and I imagine Dr Judy Edwards will make a decision in the near future on a release date. The other variables are the final decisions that will be made on the national park boundaries. Again, that is a matter in which external, rather than political, advice will be a key determinant of where those boundaries will be, and how much of the state forest will be contained within those boundaries. A number of issues must be considered, including the decision that will be made on the moratorium blocks. Some of the issues that will be considered are how much of the state forest is to be contained in reserves, how representative those reserves are, and what effect that will have on the total balance of the state forest. It is a slow and frustrating process. Hon Peter Foss: How can you ask people to put in applications when they know now that there is not enough timber, especially for small millers? Hon KIM CHANCE: That is an interesting question. Hon Peter Foss: They reckon you are teasing them. Hon KIM CHANCE: No, I am not teasing them. At the moment, much as I would like to be able to say that there is a given volume, to a miller who is considering whether to exit the industry or to opt to stay in the industry by putting in a request for proposals or consideration of proposals, the question of the available volume is irrelevant. Hon Peter Foss: They don’t think so. Hon KIM CHANCE: No, at this time it is. I discussed this issue only yesterday with - Hon Peter Foss: If it will cost them money to do it, and there are inadequate quantities of timber, how can you expect them to spend all that money putting in a request when there will not be enough timber to keep both large and small mills going? Hon KIM CHANCE: Because any one miller has the same access to the available resource as any other miller. Nobody has priority, other than when contracts are already locked away, as is the case with Nannup Sawmill and Blueleaf Corporation Pty Ltd. Every other miller has the same opportunity now. Sotico Pty Ltd has made a bid, as the member is aware. Hon Peter Foss: Yes, and has loads of money to spend on it. The big problem is that the millers are saying it will cost them. The PRESIDENT: Order! It is not supplementary question time Hon KIM CHANCE: It will not necessarily be an expensive process. All the millers must detail is the volume of timber they believe they need to achieve a certain end, and they must be able to spell out what that end is. They must be able to demonstrate, for example, that while they do not intend to go beyond green sawn output, they have contracts, partnerships or some form of liaison in place with a value adder. Hon Peter Foss: All that is dependent on certainty of supply. Nobody is prepared to do any of those things without the certainty of supply. I was down there last week. They cannot even start talking partnerships until they know quantities. Hon KIM CHANCE: I have also been speaking to the small sawmill sector, indeed as recently as yesterday, and it has welcomed this process, over and above the pro rata process. Hon Peter Foss: It depends on which ones you have talked to. Hon KIM CHANCE: This was the association. Hon Peter Foss: Yes, but you start to talk to the little ones down south and you will get a different result. Hon KIM CHANCE: It is impossible to please everybody. I was rather hoping that the member would ask the question of which he has given me some notice and to which I have an answer - I am happy to talk with the member about it - because that explains the process rather better than I can do in the context of this question. The fact is that every sawmiller remaining - other than Blueleaf and Nannup, which have their contract volumes locked away - is in exactly the same position. Certainly, one could argue that Sotico has an advantage because it is bigger and better resourced, and, indeed, because it already had its proposition before the Government. The fact is that the Government will allow sufficient time for the smaller part of the mill sector to get those bids in. What the Government is asking those millers to show it will not necessarily require a great deal of expense, although it will require a little time and a little planning. However, I argue that that is planning that should be in place now if they believe they have a future in the sawmilling industry. Hon Peter Foss: A lot of them have it up in their heads; they don’t have it down on paper. Hon KIM CHANCE: If that is a problem to them, I recommend - this is an offer that the Government will make to them in any case - that they sit down with the Forest Products Commission on a one-to-one basis, and it will work through that process with them and provide them with whatever assistance they think they need. The Government was going to make that offer to them in any case.
Hon KIM CHANCE: There are three other blocks. A consultant has been engaged to do an assessment of the economic, environmental and social value of those blocks. That consultant, URS Australia Pty Ltd, is well known in the forestry and environment area. Hon Peter Foss: You have had that for a couple of months, haven’t you? Hon KIM CHANCE: URS has provided the Minister for the Environment and me with a first draft of its report. I have had the opportunity to analyse the information in the first draft, as has the Minister for the Environment. I have yet to see a final draft of the URS report. However, I imagine that one is, or will shortly be, available. That report, of course, was commissioned by the Minister for the Environment, and I imagine Dr Judy Edwards will make a decision in the near future on a release date. The other variables are the final decisions that will be made on the national park boundaries. Again, that is a matter in which external, rather than political, advice will be a key determinant of where those boundaries will be, and how much of the state forest will be contained within those boundaries. A number of issues must be considered, including the decision that will be made on the moratorium blocks. Some of the issues that will be considered are how much of the state forest is to be contained in reserves, how representative those reserves are, and what effect that will have on the total balance of the state forest. It is a slow and frustrating process. Hon Peter Foss: How can you ask people to put in applications when they know now that there is not enough timber, especially for small millers? Hon KIM CHANCE: That is an interesting question. Hon Peter Foss: They reckon you are teasing them. Hon KIM CHANCE: No, I am not teasing them. At the moment, much as I would like to be able to say that there is a given volume, to a miller who is considering whether to exit the industry or to opt to stay in the industry by putting in a request for proposals or consideration of proposals, the question of the available volume is irrelevant. Hon Peter Foss: They don’t think so. Hon KIM CHANCE: No, at this time it is. I discussed this issue only yesterday with - Hon Peter Foss: If it will cost them money to do it, and there are inadequate quantities of timber, how can you expect them to spend all that money putting in a request when there will not be enough timber to keep both large and small mills going? Hon KIM CHANCE: Because any one miller has the same access to the available resource as any other miller. Nobody has priority, other than when contracts are already locked away, as is the case with Nannup Sawmill and Blueleaf Corporation Pty Ltd. Every other miller has the same opportunity now. Sotico Pty Ltd has made a bid, as the member is aware. Hon Peter Foss: Yes, and has loads of money to spend on it. The big problem is that the millers are saying it will cost them. The PRESIDENT: Order! It is not supplementary question time Hon KIM CHANCE: It will not necessarily be an expensive process. All the millers must detail is the volume of timber they believe they need to achieve a certain end, and they must be able to spell out what that end is. They must be able to demonstrate, for example, that while they do not intend to go beyond green sawn output, they have contracts, partnerships or some form of liaison in place with a value adder. Hon Peter Foss: All that is dependent on certainty of supply. Nobody is prepared to do any of those things without the certainty of supply. I was down there last week. They cannot even start talking partnerships until they know quantities. Hon KIM CHANCE: I have also been speaking to the small sawmill sector, indeed as recently as yesterday, and it has welcomed this process, over and above the pro rata process. Hon Peter Foss: It depends on which ones you have talked to. Hon KIM CHANCE: This was the association. Hon Peter Foss: Yes, but you start to talk to the little ones down south and you will get a different result. Hon KIM CHANCE: It is impossible to please everybody. I was rather hoping that the member would ask the question of which he has given me some notice and to which I have an answer - I am happy to talk with the member about it - because that explains the process rather better than I can do in the context of this question. The fact is that every sawmiller remaining - other than Blueleaf and Nannup, which have their contract volumes locked away - is in exactly the same position. Certainly, one could argue that Sotico has an advantage because it is bigger and better resourced, and, indeed, because it already had its proposition before the Government. The fact is that the Government will allow sufficient time for the smaller part of the mill sector to get those bids in. What the Government is asking those millers to show it will not necessarily require a great deal of expense, although it will require a little time and a little planning. However, I argue that that is planning that should be in place now if they believe they have a future in the sawmilling industry. Hon Peter Foss: A lot of them have it up in their heads; they don’t have it down on paper. Hon KIM CHANCE: If that is a problem to them, I recommend - this is an offer that the Government will make to them in any case - that they sit down with the Forest Products Commission on a one-to-one basis, and it will work through that process with them and provide them with whatever assistance they think they need. The Government was going to make that offer to them in any case.
Hon Peter Foss: You have had that for a couple of months, haven’t you? Hon KIM CHANCE: URS has provided the Minister for the Environment and me with a first draft of its report. I have had the opportunity to analyse the information in the first draft, as has the Minister for the Environment. I have yet to see a final draft of the URS report. However, I imagine that one is, or will shortly be, available. That report, of course, was commissioned by the Minister for the Environment, and I imagine Dr Judy Edwards will make a decision in the near future on a release date. The other variables are the final decisions that will be made on the national park boundaries. Again, that is a matter in which external, rather than political, advice will be a key determinant of where those boundaries will be, and how much of the state forest will be contained within those boundaries. A number of issues must be considered, including the decision that will be made on the moratorium blocks. Some of the issues that will be considered are how much of the state forest is to be contained in reserves, how representative those reserves are, and what effect that will have on the total balance of the state forest. It is a slow and frustrating process. Hon Peter Foss: How can you ask people to put in applications when they know now that there is not enough timber, especially for small millers? Hon KIM CHANCE: That is an interesting question. Hon Peter Foss: They reckon you are teasing them. Hon KIM CHANCE: No, I am not teasing them. At the moment, much as I would like to be able to say that there is a given volume, to a miller who is considering whether to exit the industry or to opt to stay in the industry by putting in a request for proposals or consideration of proposals, the question of the available volume is irrelevant. Hon Peter Foss: They don’t think so. Hon KIM CHANCE: No, at this time it is. I discussed this issue only yesterday with - Hon Peter Foss: If it will cost them money to do it, and there are inadequate quantities of timber, how can you expect them to spend all that money putting in a request when there will not be enough timber to keep both large and small mills going? Hon KIM CHANCE: Because any one miller has the same access to the available resource as any other miller. Nobody has priority, other than when contracts are already locked away, as is the case with Nannup Sawmill and Blueleaf Corporation Pty Ltd. Every other miller has the same opportunity now. Sotico Pty Ltd has made a bid, as the member is aware. Hon Peter Foss: Yes, and has loads of money to spend on it. The big problem is that the millers are saying it will cost them. The PRESIDENT: Order! It is not supplementary question time Hon KIM CHANCE: It will not necessarily be an expensive process. All the millers must detail is the volume of timber they believe they need to achieve a certain end, and they must be able to spell out what that end is. They must be able to demonstrate, for example, that while they do not intend to go beyond green sawn output, they have contracts, partnerships or some form of liaison in place with a value adder. Hon Peter Foss: All that is dependent on certainty of supply. Nobody is prepared to do any of those things without the certainty of supply. I was down there last week. They cannot even start talking partnerships until they know quantities. Hon KIM CHANCE: I have also been speaking to the small sawmill sector, indeed as recently as yesterday, and it has welcomed this process, over and above the pro rata process. Hon Peter Foss: It depends on which ones you have talked to. Hon KIM CHANCE: This was the association. Hon Peter Foss: Yes, but you start to talk to the little ones down south and you will get a different result. Hon KIM CHANCE: It is impossible to please everybody. I was rather hoping that the member would ask the question of which he has given me some notice and to which I have an answer - I am happy to talk with the member about it - because that explains the process rather better than I can do in the context of this question. The fact is that every sawmiller remaining - other than Blueleaf and Nannup, which have their contract volumes locked away - is in exactly the same position. Certainly, one could argue that Sotico has an advantage because it is bigger and better resourced, and, indeed, because it already had its proposition before the Government. The fact is that the Government will allow sufficient time for the smaller part of the mill sector to get those bids in. What the Government is asking those millers to show it will not necessarily require a great deal of expense, although it will require a little time and a little planning. However, I argue that that is planning that should be in place now if they believe they have a future in the sawmilling industry. Hon Peter Foss: A lot of them have it up in their heads; they don’t have it down on paper. Hon KIM CHANCE: If that is a problem to them, I recommend - this is an offer that the Government will make to them in any case - that they sit down with the Forest Products Commission on a one-to-one basis, and it will work through that process with them and provide them with whatever assistance they think they need. The Government was going to make that offer to them in any case.
Hon KIM CHANCE: URS has provided the Minister for the Environment and me with a first draft of its report. I have had the opportunity to analyse the information in the first draft, as has the Minister for the Environment. I have yet to see a final draft of the URS report. However, I imagine that one is, or will shortly be, available. That report, of course, was commissioned by the Minister for the Environment, and I imagine Dr Judy Edwards will make a decision in the near future on a release date. The other variables are the final decisions that will be made on the national park boundaries. Again, that is a matter in which external, rather than political, advice will be a key determinant of where those boundaries will be, and how much of the state forest will be contained within those boundaries. A number of issues must be considered, including the decision that will be made on the moratorium blocks. Some of the issues that will be considered are how much of the state forest is to be contained in reserves, how representative those reserves are, and what effect that will have on the total balance of the state forest. It is a slow and frustrating process. Hon Peter Foss: How can you ask people to put in applications when they know now that there is not enough timber, especially for small millers? Hon KIM CHANCE: That is an interesting question. Hon Peter Foss: They reckon you are teasing them. Hon KIM CHANCE: No, I am not teasing them. At the moment, much as I would like to be able to say that there is a given volume, to a miller who is considering whether to exit the industry or to opt to stay in the industry by putting in a request for proposals or consideration of proposals, the question of the available volume is irrelevant. Hon Peter Foss: They don’t think so. Hon KIM CHANCE: No, at this time it is. I discussed this issue only yesterday with - Hon Peter Foss: If it will cost them money to do it, and there are inadequate quantities of timber, how can you expect them to spend all that money putting in a request when there will not be enough timber to keep both large and small mills going? Hon KIM CHANCE: Because any one miller has the same access to the available resource as any other miller. Nobody has priority, other than when contracts are already locked away, as is the case with Nannup Sawmill and Blueleaf Corporation Pty Ltd. Every other miller has the same opportunity now. Sotico Pty Ltd has made a bid, as the member is aware. Hon Peter Foss: Yes, and has loads of money to spend on it. The big problem is that the millers are saying it will cost them. The PRESIDENT: Order! It is not supplementary question time Hon KIM CHANCE: It will not necessarily be an expensive process. All the millers must detail is the volume of timber they believe they need to achieve a certain end, and they must be able to spell out what that end is. They must be able to demonstrate, for example, that while they do not intend to go beyond green sawn output, they have contracts, partnerships or some form of liaison in place with a value adder. Hon Peter Foss: All that is dependent on certainty of supply. Nobody is prepared to do any of those things without the certainty of supply. I was down there last week. They cannot even start talking partnerships until they know quantities. Hon KIM CHANCE: I have also been speaking to the small sawmill sector, indeed as recently as yesterday, and it has welcomed this process, over and above the pro rata process. Hon Peter Foss: It depends on which ones you have talked to. Hon KIM CHANCE: This was the association. Hon Peter Foss: Yes, but you start to talk to the little ones down south and you will get a different result. Hon KIM CHANCE: It is impossible to please everybody. I was rather hoping that the member would ask the question of which he has given me some notice and to which I have an answer - I am happy to talk with the member about it - because that explains the process rather better than I can do in the context of this question. The fact is that every sawmiller remaining - other than Blueleaf and Nannup, which have their contract volumes locked away - is in exactly the same position. Certainly, one could argue that Sotico has an advantage because it is bigger and better resourced, and, indeed, because it already had its proposition before the Government. The fact is that the Government will allow sufficient time for the smaller part of the mill sector to get those bids in. What the Government is asking those millers to show it will not necessarily require a great deal of expense, although it will require a little time and a little planning. However, I argue that that is planning that should be in place now if they believe they have a future in the sawmilling industry. Hon Peter Foss: A lot of them have it up in their heads; they don’t have it down on paper. Hon KIM CHANCE: If that is a problem to them, I recommend - this is an offer that the Government will make to them in any case - that they sit down with the Forest Products Commission on a one-to-one basis, and it will work through that process with them and provide them with whatever assistance they think they need. The Government was going to make that offer to them in any case.
The other variables are the final decisions that will be made on the national park boundaries. Again, that is a matter in which external, rather than political, advice will be a key determinant of where those boundaries will be, and how much of the state forest will be contained within those boundaries. A number of issues must be considered, including the decision that will be made on the moratorium blocks. Some of the issues that will be considered are how much of the state forest is to be contained in reserves, how representative those reserves are, and what effect that will have on the total balance of the state forest. It is a slow and frustrating process. Hon Peter Foss: How can you ask people to put in applications when they know now that there is not enough timber, especially for small millers? Hon KIM CHANCE: That is an interesting question. Hon Peter Foss: They reckon you are teasing them. Hon KIM CHANCE: No, I am not teasing them. At the moment, much as I would like to be able to say that there is a given volume, to a miller who is considering whether to exit the industry or to opt to stay in the industry by putting in a request for proposals or consideration of proposals, the question of the available volume is irrelevant. Hon Peter Foss: They don’t think so. Hon KIM CHANCE: No, at this time it is. I discussed this issue only yesterday with - Hon Peter Foss: If it will cost them money to do it, and there are inadequate quantities of timber, how can you expect them to spend all that money putting in a request when there will not be enough timber to keep both large and small mills going? Hon KIM CHANCE: Because any one miller has the same access to the available resource as any other miller. Nobody has priority, other than when contracts are already locked away, as is the case with Nannup Sawmill and Blueleaf Corporation Pty Ltd. Every other miller has the same opportunity now. Sotico Pty Ltd has made a bid, as the member is aware. Hon Peter Foss: Yes, and has loads of money to spend on it. The big problem is that the millers are saying it will cost them. The PRESIDENT: Order! It is not supplementary question time Hon KIM CHANCE: It will not necessarily be an expensive process. All the millers must detail is the volume of timber they believe they need to achieve a certain end, and they must be able to spell out what that end is. They must be able to demonstrate, for example, that while they do not intend to go beyond green sawn output, they have contracts, partnerships or some form of liaison in place with a value adder. Hon Peter Foss: All that is dependent on certainty of supply. Nobody is prepared to do any of those things without the certainty of supply. I was down there last week. They cannot even start talking partnerships until they know quantities. Hon KIM CHANCE: I have also been speaking to the small sawmill sector, indeed as recently as yesterday, and it has welcomed this process, over and above the pro rata process. Hon Peter Foss: It depends on which ones you have talked to. Hon KIM CHANCE: This was the association. Hon Peter Foss: Yes, but you start to talk to the little ones down south and you will get a different result. Hon KIM CHANCE: It is impossible to please everybody. I was rather hoping that the member would ask the question of which he has given me some notice and to which I have an answer - I am happy to talk with the member about it - because that explains the process rather better than I can do in the context of this question. The fact is that every sawmiller remaining - other than Blueleaf and Nannup, which have their contract volumes locked away - is in exactly the same position. Certainly, one could argue that Sotico has an advantage because it is bigger and better resourced, and, indeed, because it already had its proposition before the Government. The fact is that the Government will allow sufficient time for the smaller part of the mill sector to get those bids in. What the Government is asking those millers to show it will not necessarily require a great deal of expense, although it will require a little time and a little planning. However, I argue that that is planning that should be in place now if they believe they have a future in the sawmilling industry. Hon Peter Foss: A lot of them have it up in their heads; they don’t have it down on paper. Hon KIM CHANCE: If that is a problem to them, I recommend - this is an offer that the Government will make to them in any case - that they sit down with the Forest Products Commission on a one-to-one basis, and it will work through that process with them and provide them with whatever assistance they think they need. The Government was going to make that offer to them in any case.
Hon Peter Foss: How can you ask people to put in applications when they know now that there is not enough timber, especially for small millers? Hon KIM CHANCE: That is an interesting question. Hon Peter Foss: They reckon you are teasing them. Hon KIM CHANCE: No, I am not teasing them. At the moment, much as I would like to be able to say that there is a given volume, to a miller who is considering whether to exit the industry or to opt to stay in the industry by putting in a request for proposals or consideration of proposals, the question of the available volume is irrelevant. Hon Peter Foss: They don’t think so. Hon KIM CHANCE: No, at this time it is. I discussed this issue only yesterday with - Hon Peter Foss: If it will cost them money to do it, and there are inadequate quantities of timber, how can you expect them to spend all that money putting in a request when there will not be enough timber to keep both large and small mills going? Hon KIM CHANCE: Because any one miller has the same access to the available resource as any other miller. Nobody has priority, other than when contracts are already locked away, as is the case with Nannup Sawmill and Blueleaf Corporation Pty Ltd. Every other miller has the same opportunity now. Sotico Pty Ltd has made a bid, as the member is aware. Hon Peter Foss: Yes, and has loads of money to spend on it. The big problem is that the millers are saying it will cost them. The PRESIDENT: Order! It is not supplementary question time Hon KIM CHANCE: It will not necessarily be an expensive process. All the millers must detail is the volume of timber they believe they need to achieve a certain end, and they must be able to spell out what that end is. They must be able to demonstrate, for example, that while they do not intend to go beyond green sawn output, they have contracts, partnerships or some form of liaison in place with a value adder. Hon Peter Foss: All that is dependent on certainty of supply. Nobody is prepared to do any of those things without the certainty of supply. I was down there last week. They cannot even start talking partnerships until they know quantities. Hon KIM CHANCE: I have also been speaking to the small sawmill sector, indeed as recently as yesterday, and it has welcomed this process, over and above the pro rata process. Hon Peter Foss: It depends on which ones you have talked to. Hon KIM CHANCE: This was the association. Hon Peter Foss: Yes, but you start to talk to the little ones down south and you will get a different result. Hon KIM CHANCE: It is impossible to please everybody. I was rather hoping that the member would ask the question of which he has given me some notice and to which I have an answer - I am happy to talk with the member about it - because that explains the process rather better than I can do in the context of this question. The fact is that every sawmiller remaining - other than Blueleaf and Nannup, which have their contract volumes locked away - is in exactly the same position. Certainly, one could argue that Sotico has an advantage because it is bigger and better resourced, and, indeed, because it already had its proposition before the Government. The fact is that the Government will allow sufficient time for the smaller part of the mill sector to get those bids in. What the Government is asking those millers to show it will not necessarily require a great deal of expense, although it will require a little time and a little planning. However, I argue that that is planning that should be in place now if they believe they have a future in the sawmilling industry. Hon Peter Foss: A lot of them have it up in their heads; they don’t have it down on paper. Hon KIM CHANCE: If that is a problem to them, I recommend - this is an offer that the Government will make to them in any case - that they sit down with the Forest Products Commission on a one-to-one basis, and it will work through that process with them and provide them with whatever assistance they think they need. The Government was going to make that offer to them in any case.
Hon KIM CHANCE: That is an interesting question. Hon Peter Foss: They reckon you are teasing them. Hon KIM CHANCE: No, I am not teasing them. At the moment, much as I would like to be able to say that there is a given volume, to a miller who is considering whether to exit the industry or to opt to stay in the industry by putting in a request for proposals or consideration of proposals, the question of the available volume is irrelevant. Hon Peter Foss: They don’t think so. Hon KIM CHANCE: No, at this time it is. I discussed this issue only yesterday with - Hon Peter Foss: If it will cost them money to do it, and there are inadequate quantities of timber, how can you expect them to spend all that money putting in a request when there will not be enough timber to keep both large and small mills going? Hon KIM CHANCE: Because any one miller has the same access to the available resource as any other miller. Nobody has priority, other than when contracts are already locked away, as is the case with Nannup Sawmill and Blueleaf Corporation Pty Ltd. Every other miller has the same opportunity now. Sotico Pty Ltd has made a bid, as the member is aware. Hon Peter Foss: Yes, and has loads of money to spend on it. The big problem is that the millers are saying it will cost them. The PRESIDENT: Order! It is not supplementary question time Hon KIM CHANCE: It will not necessarily be an expensive process. All the millers must detail is the volume of timber they believe they need to achieve a certain end, and they must be able to spell out what that end is. They must be able to demonstrate, for example, that while they do not intend to go beyond green sawn output, they have contracts, partnerships or some form of liaison in place with a value adder. Hon Peter Foss: All that is dependent on certainty of supply. Nobody is prepared to do any of those things without the certainty of supply. I was down there last week. They cannot even start talking partnerships until they know quantities. Hon KIM CHANCE: I have also been speaking to the small sawmill sector, indeed as recently as yesterday, and it has welcomed this process, over and above the pro rata process. Hon Peter Foss: It depends on which ones you have talked to. Hon KIM CHANCE: This was the association. Hon Peter Foss: Yes, but you start to talk to the little ones down south and you will get a different result. Hon KIM CHANCE: It is impossible to please everybody. I was rather hoping that the member would ask the question of which he has given me some notice and to which I have an answer - I am happy to talk with the member about it - because that explains the process rather better than I can do in the context of this question. The fact is that every sawmiller remaining - other than Blueleaf and Nannup, which have their contract volumes locked away - is in exactly the same position. Certainly, one could argue that Sotico has an advantage because it is bigger and better resourced, and, indeed, because it already had its proposition before the Government. The fact is that the Government will allow sufficient time for the smaller part of the mill sector to get those bids in. What the Government is asking those millers to show it will not necessarily require a great deal of expense, although it will require a little time and a little planning. However, I argue that that is planning that should be in place now if they believe they have a future in the sawmilling industry. Hon Peter Foss: A lot of them have it up in their heads; they don’t have it down on paper. Hon KIM CHANCE: If that is a problem to them, I recommend - this is an offer that the Government will make to them in any case - that they sit down with the Forest Products Commission on a one-to-one basis, and it will work through that process with them and provide them with whatever assistance they think they need. The Government was going to make that offer to them in any case.
Hon Peter Foss: They reckon you are teasing them. Hon KIM CHANCE: No, I am not teasing them. At the moment, much as I would like to be able to say that there is a given volume, to a miller who is considering whether to exit the industry or to opt to stay in the industry by putting in a request for proposals or consideration of proposals, the question of the available volume is irrelevant. Hon Peter Foss: They don’t think so. Hon KIM CHANCE: No, at this time it is. I discussed this issue only yesterday with - Hon Peter Foss: If it will cost them money to do it, and there are inadequate quantities of timber, how can you expect them to spend all that money putting in a request when there will not be enough timber to keep both large and small mills going? Hon KIM CHANCE: Because any one miller has the same access to the available resource as any other miller. Nobody has priority, other than when contracts are already locked away, as is the case with Nannup Sawmill and Blueleaf Corporation Pty Ltd. Every other miller has the same opportunity now. Sotico Pty Ltd has made a bid, as the member is aware. Hon Peter Foss: Yes, and has loads of money to spend on it. The big problem is that the millers are saying it will cost them. The PRESIDENT: Order! It is not supplementary question time Hon KIM CHANCE: It will not necessarily be an expensive process. All the millers must detail is the volume of timber they believe they need to achieve a certain end, and they must be able to spell out what that end is. They must be able to demonstrate, for example, that while they do not intend to go beyond green sawn output, they have contracts, partnerships or some form of liaison in place with a value adder. Hon Peter Foss: All that is dependent on certainty of supply. Nobody is prepared to do any of those things without the certainty of supply. I was down there last week. They cannot even start talking partnerships until they know quantities. Hon KIM CHANCE: I have also been speaking to the small sawmill sector, indeed as recently as yesterday, and it has welcomed this process, over and above the pro rata process. Hon Peter Foss: It depends on which ones you have talked to. Hon KIM CHANCE: This was the association. Hon Peter Foss: Yes, but you start to talk to the little ones down south and you will get a different result. Hon KIM CHANCE: It is impossible to please everybody. I was rather hoping that the member would ask the question of which he has given me some notice and to which I have an answer - I am happy to talk with the member about it - because that explains the process rather better than I can do in the context of this question. The fact is that every sawmiller remaining - other than Blueleaf and Nannup, which have their contract volumes locked away - is in exactly the same position. Certainly, one could argue that Sotico has an advantage because it is bigger and better resourced, and, indeed, because it already had its proposition before the Government. The fact is that the Government will allow sufficient time for the smaller part of the mill sector to get those bids in. What the Government is asking those millers to show it will not necessarily require a great deal of expense, although it will require a little time and a little planning. However, I argue that that is planning that should be in place now if they believe they have a future in the sawmilling industry. Hon Peter Foss: A lot of them have it up in their heads; they don’t have it down on paper. Hon KIM CHANCE: If that is a problem to them, I recommend - this is an offer that the Government will make to them in any case - that they sit down with the Forest Products Commission on a one-to-one basis, and it will work through that process with them and provide them with whatever assistance they think they need. The Government was going to make that offer to them in any case.
Hon KIM CHANCE: No, I am not teasing them. At the moment, much as I would like to be able to say that there is a given volume, to a miller who is considering whether to exit the industry or to opt to stay in the industry by putting in a request for proposals or consideration of proposals, the question of the available volume is irrelevant. Hon Peter Foss: They don’t think so. Hon KIM CHANCE: No, at this time it is. I discussed this issue only yesterday with - Hon Peter Foss: If it will cost them money to do it, and there are inadequate quantities of timber, how can you expect them to spend all that money putting in a request when there will not be enough timber to keep both large and small mills going? Hon KIM CHANCE: Because any one miller has the same access to the available resource as any other miller. Nobody has priority, other than when contracts are already locked away, as is the case with Nannup Sawmill and Blueleaf Corporation Pty Ltd. Every other miller has the same opportunity now. Sotico Pty Ltd has made a bid, as the member is aware. Hon Peter Foss: Yes, and has loads of money to spend on it. The big problem is that the millers are saying it will cost them. The PRESIDENT: Order! It is not supplementary question time Hon KIM CHANCE: It will not necessarily be an expensive process. All the millers must detail is the volume of timber they believe they need to achieve a certain end, and they must be able to spell out what that end is. They must be able to demonstrate, for example, that while they do not intend to go beyond green sawn output, they have contracts, partnerships or some form of liaison in place with a value adder. Hon Peter Foss: All that is dependent on certainty of supply. Nobody is prepared to do any of those things without the certainty of supply. I was down there last week. They cannot even start talking partnerships until they know quantities. Hon KIM CHANCE: I have also been speaking to the small sawmill sector, indeed as recently as yesterday, and it has welcomed this process, over and above the pro rata process. Hon Peter Foss: It depends on which ones you have talked to. Hon KIM CHANCE: This was the association. Hon Peter Foss: Yes, but you start to talk to the little ones down south and you will get a different result. Hon KIM CHANCE: It is impossible to please everybody. I was rather hoping that the member would ask the question of which he has given me some notice and to which I have an answer - I am happy to talk with the member about it - because that explains the process rather better than I can do in the context of this question. The fact is that every sawmiller remaining - other than Blueleaf and Nannup, which have their contract volumes locked away - is in exactly the same position. Certainly, one could argue that Sotico has an advantage because it is bigger and better resourced, and, indeed, because it already had its proposition before the Government. The fact is that the Government will allow sufficient time for the smaller part of the mill sector to get those bids in. What the Government is asking those millers to show it will not necessarily require a great deal of expense, although it will require a little time and a little planning. However, I argue that that is planning that should be in place now if they believe they have a future in the sawmilling industry. Hon Peter Foss: A lot of them have it up in their heads; they don’t have it down on paper. Hon KIM CHANCE: If that is a problem to them, I recommend - this is an offer that the Government will make to them in any case - that they sit down with the Forest Products Commission on a one-to-one basis, and it will work through that process with them and provide them with whatever assistance they think they need. The Government was going to make that offer to them in any case.
Hon Peter Foss: They don’t think so. Hon KIM CHANCE: No, at this time it is. I discussed this issue only yesterday with - Hon Peter Foss: If it will cost them money to do it, and there are inadequate quantities of timber, how can you expect them to spend all that money putting in a request when there will not be enough timber to keep both large and small mills going? Hon KIM CHANCE: Because any one miller has the same access to the available resource as any other miller. Nobody has priority, other than when contracts are already locked away, as is the case with Nannup Sawmill and Blueleaf Corporation Pty Ltd. Every other miller has the same opportunity now. Sotico Pty Ltd has made a bid, as the member is aware. Hon Peter Foss: Yes, and has loads of money to spend on it. The big problem is that the millers are saying it will cost them. The PRESIDENT: Order! It is not supplementary question time Hon KIM CHANCE: It will not necessarily be an expensive process. All the millers must detail is the volume of timber they believe they need to achieve a certain end, and they must be able to spell out what that end is. They must be able to demonstrate, for example, that while they do not intend to go beyond green sawn output, they have contracts, partnerships or some form of liaison in place with a value adder. Hon Peter Foss: All that is dependent on certainty of supply. Nobody is prepared to do any of those things without the certainty of supply. I was down there last week. They cannot even start talking partnerships until they know quantities. Hon KIM CHANCE: I have also been speaking to the small sawmill sector, indeed as recently as yesterday, and it has welcomed this process, over and above the pro rata process. Hon Peter Foss: It depends on which ones you have talked to. Hon KIM CHANCE: This was the association. Hon Peter Foss: Yes, but you start to talk to the little ones down south and you will get a different result. Hon KIM CHANCE: It is impossible to please everybody. I was rather hoping that the member would ask the question of which he has given me some notice and to which I have an answer - I am happy to talk with the member about it - because that explains the process rather better than I can do in the context of this question. The fact is that every sawmiller remaining - other than Blueleaf and Nannup, which have their contract volumes locked away - is in exactly the same position. Certainly, one could argue that Sotico has an advantage because it is bigger and better resourced, and, indeed, because it already had its proposition before the Government. The fact is that the Government will allow sufficient time for the smaller part of the mill sector to get those bids in. What the Government is asking those millers to show it will not necessarily require a great deal of expense, although it will require a little time and a little planning. However, I argue that that is planning that should be in place now if they believe they have a future in the sawmilling industry. Hon Peter Foss: A lot of them have it up in their heads; they don’t have it down on paper. Hon KIM CHANCE: If that is a problem to them, I recommend - this is an offer that the Government will make to them in any case - that they sit down with the Forest Products Commission on a one-to-one basis, and it will work through that process with them and provide them with whatever assistance they think they need. The Government was going to make that offer to them in any case.
Hon KIM CHANCE: No, at this time it is. I discussed this issue only yesterday with - Hon Peter Foss: If it will cost them money to do it, and there are inadequate quantities of timber, how can you expect them to spend all that money putting in a request when there will not be enough timber to keep both large and small mills going? Hon KIM CHANCE: Because any one miller has the same access to the available resource as any other miller. Nobody has priority, other than when contracts are already locked away, as is the case with Nannup Sawmill and Blueleaf Corporation Pty Ltd. Every other miller has the same opportunity now. Sotico Pty Ltd has made a bid, as the member is aware. Hon Peter Foss: Yes, and has loads of money to spend on it. The big problem is that the millers are saying it will cost them. The PRESIDENT: Order! It is not supplementary question time Hon KIM CHANCE: It will not necessarily be an expensive process. All the millers must detail is the volume of timber they believe they need to achieve a certain end, and they must be able to spell out what that end is. They must be able to demonstrate, for example, that while they do not intend to go beyond green sawn output, they have contracts, partnerships or some form of liaison in place with a value adder. Hon Peter Foss: All that is dependent on certainty of supply. Nobody is prepared to do any of those things without the certainty of supply. I was down there last week. They cannot even start talking partnerships until they know quantities. Hon KIM CHANCE: I have also been speaking to the small sawmill sector, indeed as recently as yesterday, and it has welcomed this process, over and above the pro rata process. Hon Peter Foss: It depends on which ones you have talked to. Hon KIM CHANCE: This was the association. Hon Peter Foss: Yes, but you start to talk to the little ones down south and you will get a different result. Hon KIM CHANCE: It is impossible to please everybody. I was rather hoping that the member would ask the question of which he has given me some notice and to which I have an answer - I am happy to talk with the member about it - because that explains the process rather better than I can do in the context of this question. The fact is that every sawmiller remaining - other than Blueleaf and Nannup, which have their contract volumes locked away - is in exactly the same position. Certainly, one could argue that Sotico has an advantage because it is bigger and better resourced, and, indeed, because it already had its proposition before the Government. The fact is that the Government will allow sufficient time for the smaller part of the mill sector to get those bids in. What the Government is asking those millers to show it will not necessarily require a great deal of expense, although it will require a little time and a little planning. However, I argue that that is planning that should be in place now if they believe they have a future in the sawmilling industry. Hon Peter Foss: A lot of them have it up in their heads; they don’t have it down on paper. Hon KIM CHANCE: If that is a problem to them, I recommend - this is an offer that the Government will make to them in any case - that they sit down with the Forest Products Commission on a one-to-one basis, and it will work through that process with them and provide them with whatever assistance they think they need. The Government was going to make that offer to them in any case.
Hon Peter Foss: If it will cost them money to do it, and there are inadequate quantities of timber, how can you expect them to spend all that money putting in a request when there will not be enough timber to keep both large and small mills going? Hon KIM CHANCE: Because any one miller has the same access to the available resource as any other miller. Nobody has priority, other than when contracts are already locked away, as is the case with Nannup Sawmill and Blueleaf Corporation Pty Ltd. Every other miller has the same opportunity now. Sotico Pty Ltd has made a bid, as the member is aware. Hon Peter Foss: Yes, and has loads of money to spend on it. The big problem is that the millers are saying it will cost them. The PRESIDENT: Order! It is not supplementary question time Hon KIM CHANCE: It will not necessarily be an expensive process. All the millers must detail is the volume of timber they believe they need to achieve a certain end, and they must be able to spell out what that end is. They must be able to demonstrate, for example, that while they do not intend to go beyond green sawn output, they have contracts, partnerships or some form of liaison in place with a value adder. Hon Peter Foss: All that is dependent on certainty of supply. Nobody is prepared to do any of those things without the certainty of supply. I was down there last week. They cannot even start talking partnerships until they know quantities. Hon KIM CHANCE: I have also been speaking to the small sawmill sector, indeed as recently as yesterday, and it has welcomed this process, over and above the pro rata process. Hon Peter Foss: It depends on which ones you have talked to. Hon KIM CHANCE: This was the association. Hon Peter Foss: Yes, but you start to talk to the little ones down south and you will get a different result. Hon KIM CHANCE: It is impossible to please everybody. I was rather hoping that the member would ask the question of which he has given me some notice and to which I have an answer - I am happy to talk with the member about it - because that explains the process rather better than I can do in the context of this question. The fact is that every sawmiller remaining - other than Blueleaf and Nannup, which have their contract volumes locked away - is in exactly the same position. Certainly, one could argue that Sotico has an advantage because it is bigger and better resourced, and, indeed, because it already had its proposition before the Government. The fact is that the Government will allow sufficient time for the smaller part of the mill sector to get those bids in. What the Government is asking those millers to show it will not necessarily require a great deal of expense, although it will require a little time and a little planning. However, I argue that that is planning that should be in place now if they believe they have a future in the sawmilling industry. Hon Peter Foss: A lot of them have it up in their heads; they don’t have it down on paper. Hon KIM CHANCE: If that is a problem to them, I recommend - this is an offer that the Government will make to them in any case - that they sit down with the Forest Products Commission on a one-to-one basis, and it will work through that process with them and provide them with whatever assistance they think they need. The Government was going to make that offer to them in any case.
Hon KIM CHANCE: Because any one miller has the same access to the available resource as any other miller. Nobody has priority, other than when contracts are already locked away, as is the case with Nannup Sawmill and Blueleaf Corporation Pty Ltd. Every other miller has the same opportunity now. Sotico Pty Ltd has made a bid, as the member is aware. Hon Peter Foss: Yes, and has loads of money to spend on it. The big problem is that the millers are saying it will cost them. The PRESIDENT: Order! It is not supplementary question time Hon KIM CHANCE: It will not necessarily be an expensive process. All the millers must detail is the volume of timber they believe they need to achieve a certain end, and they must be able to spell out what that end is. They must be able to demonstrate, for example, that while they do not intend to go beyond green sawn output, they have contracts, partnerships or some form of liaison in place with a value adder. Hon Peter Foss: All that is dependent on certainty of supply. Nobody is prepared to do any of those things without the certainty of supply. I was down there last week. They cannot even start talking partnerships until they know quantities. Hon KIM CHANCE: I have also been speaking to the small sawmill sector, indeed as recently as yesterday, and it has welcomed this process, over and above the pro rata process. Hon Peter Foss: It depends on which ones you have talked to. Hon KIM CHANCE: This was the association. Hon Peter Foss: Yes, but you start to talk to the little ones down south and you will get a different result. Hon KIM CHANCE: It is impossible to please everybody. I was rather hoping that the member would ask the question of which he has given me some notice and to which I have an answer - I am happy to talk with the member about it - because that explains the process rather better than I can do in the context of this question. The fact is that every sawmiller remaining - other than Blueleaf and Nannup, which have their contract volumes locked away - is in exactly the same position. Certainly, one could argue that Sotico has an advantage because it is bigger and better resourced, and, indeed, because it already had its proposition before the Government. The fact is that the Government will allow sufficient time for the smaller part of the mill sector to get those bids in. What the Government is asking those millers to show it will not necessarily require a great deal of expense, although it will require a little time and a little planning. However, I argue that that is planning that should be in place now if they believe they have a future in the sawmilling industry. Hon Peter Foss: A lot of them have it up in their heads; they don’t have it down on paper. Hon KIM CHANCE: If that is a problem to them, I recommend - this is an offer that the Government will make to them in any case - that they sit down with the Forest Products Commission on a one-to-one basis, and it will work through that process with them and provide them with whatever assistance they think they need. The Government was going to make that offer to them in any case.
Hon Peter Foss: Yes, and has loads of money to spend on it. The big problem is that the millers are saying it will cost them. The PRESIDENT: Order! It is not supplementary question time Hon KIM CHANCE: It will not necessarily be an expensive process. All the millers must detail is the volume of timber they believe they need to achieve a certain end, and they must be able to spell out what that end is. They must be able to demonstrate, for example, that while they do not intend to go beyond green sawn output, they have contracts, partnerships or some form of liaison in place with a value adder. Hon Peter Foss: All that is dependent on certainty of supply. Nobody is prepared to do any of those things without the certainty of supply. I was down there last week. They cannot even start talking partnerships until they know quantities. Hon KIM CHANCE: I have also been speaking to the small sawmill sector, indeed as recently as yesterday, and it has welcomed this process, over and above the pro rata process. Hon Peter Foss: It depends on which ones you have talked to. Hon KIM CHANCE: This was the association. Hon Peter Foss: Yes, but you start to talk to the little ones down south and you will get a different result. Hon KIM CHANCE: It is impossible to please everybody. I was rather hoping that the member would ask the question of which he has given me some notice and to which I have an answer - I am happy to talk with the member about it - because that explains the process rather better than I can do in the context of this question. The fact is that every sawmiller remaining - other than Blueleaf and Nannup, which have their contract volumes locked away - is in exactly the same position. Certainly, one could argue that Sotico has an advantage because it is bigger and better resourced, and, indeed, because it already had its proposition before the Government. The fact is that the Government will allow sufficient time for the smaller part of the mill sector to get those bids in. What the Government is asking those millers to show it will not necessarily require a great deal of expense, although it will require a little time and a little planning. However, I argue that that is planning that should be in place now if they believe they have a future in the sawmilling industry. Hon Peter Foss: A lot of them have it up in their heads; they don’t have it down on paper. Hon KIM CHANCE: If that is a problem to them, I recommend - this is an offer that the Government will make to them in any case - that they sit down with the Forest Products Commission on a one-to-one basis, and it will work through that process with them and provide them with whatever assistance they think they need. The Government was going to make that offer to them in any case.
The PRESIDENT: Order! It is not supplementary question time Hon KIM CHANCE: It will not necessarily be an expensive process. All the millers must detail is the volume of timber they believe they need to achieve a certain end, and they must be able to spell out what that end is. They must be able to demonstrate, for example, that while they do not intend to go beyond green sawn output, they have contracts, partnerships or some form of liaison in place with a value adder. Hon Peter Foss: All that is dependent on certainty of supply. Nobody is prepared to do any of those things without the certainty of supply. I was down there last week. They cannot even start talking partnerships until they know quantities. Hon KIM CHANCE: I have also been speaking to the small sawmill sector, indeed as recently as yesterday, and it has welcomed this process, over and above the pro rata process. Hon Peter Foss: It depends on which ones you have talked to. Hon KIM CHANCE: This was the association. Hon Peter Foss: Yes, but you start to talk to the little ones down south and you will get a different result. Hon KIM CHANCE: It is impossible to please everybody. I was rather hoping that the member would ask the question of which he has given me some notice and to which I have an answer - I am happy to talk with the member about it - because that explains the process rather better than I can do in the context of this question. The fact is that every sawmiller remaining - other than Blueleaf and Nannup, which have their contract volumes locked away - is in exactly the same position. Certainly, one could argue that Sotico has an advantage because it is bigger and better resourced, and, indeed, because it already had its proposition before the Government. The fact is that the Government will allow sufficient time for the smaller part of the mill sector to get those bids in. What the Government is asking those millers to show it will not necessarily require a great deal of expense, although it will require a little time and a little planning. However, I argue that that is planning that should be in place now if they believe they have a future in the sawmilling industry. Hon Peter Foss: A lot of them have it up in their heads; they don’t have it down on paper. Hon KIM CHANCE: If that is a problem to them, I recommend - this is an offer that the Government will make to them in any case - that they sit down with the Forest Products Commission on a one-to-one basis, and it will work through that process with them and provide them with whatever assistance they think they need. The Government was going to make that offer to them in any case.
Hon KIM CHANCE: It will not necessarily be an expensive process. All the millers must detail is the volume of timber they believe they need to achieve a certain end, and they must be able to spell out what that end is. They must be able to demonstrate, for example, that while they do not intend to go beyond green sawn output, they have contracts, partnerships or some form of liaison in place with a value adder. Hon Peter Foss: All that is dependent on certainty of supply. Nobody is prepared to do any of those things without the certainty of supply. I was down there last week. They cannot even start talking partnerships until they know quantities. Hon KIM CHANCE: I have also been speaking to the small sawmill sector, indeed as recently as yesterday, and it has welcomed this process, over and above the pro rata process. Hon Peter Foss: It depends on which ones you have talked to. Hon KIM CHANCE: This was the association. Hon Peter Foss: Yes, but you start to talk to the little ones down south and you will get a different result. Hon KIM CHANCE: It is impossible to please everybody. I was rather hoping that the member would ask the question of which he has given me some notice and to which I have an answer - I am happy to talk with the member about it - because that explains the process rather better than I can do in the context of this question. The fact is that every sawmiller remaining - other than Blueleaf and Nannup, which have their contract volumes locked away - is in exactly the same position. Certainly, one could argue that Sotico has an advantage because it is bigger and better resourced, and, indeed, because it already had its proposition before the Government. The fact is that the Government will allow sufficient time for the smaller part of the mill sector to get those bids in. What the Government is asking those millers to show it will not necessarily require a great deal of expense, although it will require a little time and a little planning. However, I argue that that is planning that should be in place now if they believe they have a future in the sawmilling industry. Hon Peter Foss: A lot of them have it up in their heads; they don’t have it down on paper. Hon KIM CHANCE: If that is a problem to them, I recommend - this is an offer that the Government will make to them in any case - that they sit down with the Forest Products Commission on a one-to-one basis, and it will work through that process with them and provide them with whatever assistance they think they need. The Government was going to make that offer to them in any case.
Hon Peter Foss: All that is dependent on certainty of supply. Nobody is prepared to do any of those things without the certainty of supply. I was down there last week. They cannot even start talking partnerships until they know quantities. Hon KIM CHANCE: I have also been speaking to the small sawmill sector, indeed as recently as yesterday, and it has welcomed this process, over and above the pro rata process. Hon Peter Foss: It depends on which ones you have talked to. Hon KIM CHANCE: This was the association. Hon Peter Foss: Yes, but you start to talk to the little ones down south and you will get a different result. Hon KIM CHANCE: It is impossible to please everybody. I was rather hoping that the member would ask the question of which he has given me some notice and to which I have an answer - I am happy to talk with the member about it - because that explains the process rather better than I can do in the context of this question. The fact is that every sawmiller remaining - other than Blueleaf and Nannup, which have their contract volumes locked away - is in exactly the same position. Certainly, one could argue that Sotico has an advantage because it is bigger and better resourced, and, indeed, because it already had its proposition before the Government. The fact is that the Government will allow sufficient time for the smaller part of the mill sector to get those bids in. What the Government is asking those millers to show it will not necessarily require a great deal of expense, although it will require a little time and a little planning. However, I argue that that is planning that should be in place now if they believe they have a future in the sawmilling industry. Hon Peter Foss: A lot of them have it up in their heads; they don’t have it down on paper. Hon KIM CHANCE: If that is a problem to them, I recommend - this is an offer that the Government will make to them in any case - that they sit down with the Forest Products Commission on a one-to-one basis, and it will work through that process with them and provide them with whatever assistance they think they need. The Government was going to make that offer to them in any case.
Hon KIM CHANCE: I have also been speaking to the small sawmill sector, indeed as recently as yesterday, and it has welcomed this process, over and above the pro rata process. Hon Peter Foss: It depends on which ones you have talked to. Hon KIM CHANCE: This was the association. Hon Peter Foss: Yes, but you start to talk to the little ones down south and you will get a different result. Hon KIM CHANCE: It is impossible to please everybody. I was rather hoping that the member would ask the question of which he has given me some notice and to which I have an answer - I am happy to talk with the member about it - because that explains the process rather better than I can do in the context of this question. The fact is that every sawmiller remaining - other than Blueleaf and Nannup, which have their contract volumes locked away - is in exactly the same position. Certainly, one could argue that Sotico has an advantage because it is bigger and better resourced, and, indeed, because it already had its proposition before the Government. The fact is that the Government will allow sufficient time for the smaller part of the mill sector to get those bids in. What the Government is asking those millers to show it will not necessarily require a great deal of expense, although it will require a little time and a little planning. However, I argue that that is planning that should be in place now if they believe they have a future in the sawmilling industry. Hon Peter Foss: A lot of them have it up in their heads; they don’t have it down on paper. Hon KIM CHANCE: If that is a problem to them, I recommend - this is an offer that the Government will make to them in any case - that they sit down with the Forest Products Commission on a one-to-one basis, and it will work through that process with them and provide them with whatever assistance they think they need. The Government was going to make that offer to them in any case.
Hon Peter Foss: It depends on which ones you have talked to. Hon KIM CHANCE: This was the association. Hon Peter Foss: Yes, but you start to talk to the little ones down south and you will get a different result. Hon KIM CHANCE: It is impossible to please everybody. I was rather hoping that the member would ask the question of which he has given me some notice and to which I have an answer - I am happy to talk with the member about it - because that explains the process rather better than I can do in the context of this question. The fact is that every sawmiller remaining - other than Blueleaf and Nannup, which have their contract volumes locked away - is in exactly the same position. Certainly, one could argue that Sotico has an advantage because it is bigger and better resourced, and, indeed, because it already had its proposition before the Government. The fact is that the Government will allow sufficient time for the smaller part of the mill sector to get those bids in. What the Government is asking those millers to show it will not necessarily require a great deal of expense, although it will require a little time and a little planning. However, I argue that that is planning that should be in place now if they believe they have a future in the sawmilling industry. Hon Peter Foss: A lot of them have it up in their heads; they don’t have it down on paper. Hon KIM CHANCE: If that is a problem to them, I recommend - this is an offer that the Government will make to them in any case - that they sit down with the Forest Products Commission on a one-to-one basis, and it will work through that process with them and provide them with whatever assistance they think they need. The Government was going to make that offer to them in any case.
Hon KIM CHANCE: This was the association. Hon Peter Foss: Yes, but you start to talk to the little ones down south and you will get a different result. Hon KIM CHANCE: It is impossible to please everybody. I was rather hoping that the member would ask the question of which he has given me some notice and to which I have an answer - I am happy to talk with the member about it - because that explains the process rather better than I can do in the context of this question. The fact is that every sawmiller remaining - other than Blueleaf and Nannup, which have their contract volumes locked away - is in exactly the same position. Certainly, one could argue that Sotico has an advantage because it is bigger and better resourced, and, indeed, because it already had its proposition before the Government. The fact is that the Government will allow sufficient time for the smaller part of the mill sector to get those bids in. What the Government is asking those millers to show it will not necessarily require a great deal of expense, although it will require a little time and a little planning. However, I argue that that is planning that should be in place now if they believe they have a future in the sawmilling industry. Hon Peter Foss: A lot of them have it up in their heads; they don’t have it down on paper. Hon KIM CHANCE: If that is a problem to them, I recommend - this is an offer that the Government will make to them in any case - that they sit down with the Forest Products Commission on a one-to-one basis, and it will work through that process with them and provide them with whatever assistance they think they need. The Government was going to make that offer to them in any case.
Hon Peter Foss: Yes, but you start to talk to the little ones down south and you will get a different result. Hon KIM CHANCE: It is impossible to please everybody. I was rather hoping that the member would ask the question of which he has given me some notice and to which I have an answer - I am happy to talk with the member about it - because that explains the process rather better than I can do in the context of this question. The fact is that every sawmiller remaining - other than Blueleaf and Nannup, which have their contract volumes locked away - is in exactly the same position. Certainly, one could argue that Sotico has an advantage because it is bigger and better resourced, and, indeed, because it already had its proposition before the Government. The fact is that the Government will allow sufficient time for the smaller part of the mill sector to get those bids in. What the Government is asking those millers to show it will not necessarily require a great deal of expense, although it will require a little time and a little planning. However, I argue that that is planning that should be in place now if they believe they have a future in the sawmilling industry. Hon Peter Foss: A lot of them have it up in their heads; they don’t have it down on paper. Hon KIM CHANCE: If that is a problem to them, I recommend - this is an offer that the Government will make to them in any case - that they sit down with the Forest Products Commission on a one-to-one basis, and it will work through that process with them and provide them with whatever assistance they think they need. The Government was going to make that offer to them in any case.
Hon KIM CHANCE: It is impossible to please everybody. I was rather hoping that the member would ask the question of which he has given me some notice and to which I have an answer - I am happy to talk with the member about it - because that explains the process rather better than I can do in the context of this question. The fact is that every sawmiller remaining - other than Blueleaf and Nannup, which have their contract volumes locked away - is in exactly the same position. Certainly, one could argue that Sotico has an advantage because it is bigger and better resourced, and, indeed, because it already had its proposition before the Government. The fact is that the Government will allow sufficient time for the smaller part of the mill sector to get those bids in. What the Government is asking those millers to show it will not necessarily require a great deal of expense, although it will require a little time and a little planning. However, I argue that that is planning that should be in place now if they believe they have a future in the sawmilling industry. Hon Peter Foss: A lot of them have it up in their heads; they don’t have it down on paper. Hon KIM CHANCE: If that is a problem to them, I recommend - this is an offer that the Government will make to them in any case - that they sit down with the Forest Products Commission on a one-to-one basis, and it will work through that process with them and provide them with whatever assistance they think they need. The Government was going to make that offer to them in any case.
Hon Peter Foss: A lot of them have it up in their heads; they don’t have it down on paper. Hon KIM CHANCE: If that is a problem to them, I recommend - this is an offer that the Government will make to them in any case - that they sit down with the Forest Products Commission on a one-to-one basis, and it will work through that process with them and provide them with whatever assistance they think they need. The Government was going to make that offer to them in any case.
Hon KIM CHANCE: If that is a problem to them, I recommend - this is an offer that the Government will make to them in any case - that they sit down with the Forest Products Commission on a one-to-one basis, and it will work through that process with them and provide them with whatever assistance they think they need. The Government was going to make that offer to them in any case.
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Government Gazette
Appointments, regulatory notices, planning changes.
Hansard
Debates, questions, speeches and sentiment.
Tabled Papers
Reports and documents tabled in Parliament.
Committees
Committee profiles and recent reports.
Regulations
Subsidiary legislation with filters and summaries.
Bills
Proposed laws and parliamentary progress.
Acts
Current WA legislation and summaries.
Explanatory Memoranda
Bills with EMs (text/PDF) available.
Members
MP profiles, party breakdown and rankings.
Pollie Rankings
Data-driven rankings across 19 categories.
Amendment Chains
Track how schemes and regulations evolve over time.