❓ Question regarding WA classroom sizes and whether they exceed maximum limits. The Minister's response includes a request for notice to provide exact figures, defends current class sizes as within agreed limits, and criticises the previous government's education funding cuts.
AnsweredQoN 373Legislative Assembly
QuestionView source ↗
SCHOOLS — CLASS SIZES
373. Mr P.J. RUNDLE to the Minister for Education:
I
refer to renewed calls for a reduction in classroom sizes, particularly from
the State School Teachers' Union of WA, which has highlighted
that WA's maximum student number in classrooms is the highest in the
country.
(1) Is the minister's director general correct
in saying that the average class size is well within the maximum limit?
(2) Noting that
it was also suggested there are a number above the maximum limit, can the
minister provide the exact number of classes that are grappling with above
maximum student numbers?
373. Mr P.J. RUNDLE to the Minister for Education:
I
refer to renewed calls for a reduction in classroom sizes, particularly from
the State School Teachers' Union of WA, which has highlighted
that WA's maximum student number in classrooms is the highest in the
country.
(1) Is the minister's director general correct
in saying that the average class size is well within the maximum limit?
(2) Noting that
it was also suggested there are a number above the maximum limit, can the
minister provide the exact number of classes that are grappling with above
maximum student numbers?
AnswerView source ↗
(1)–(2) If the member for Roe could give me some notice, I
might be able to provide the exact number. I might have a bit of
knowledge of education, but I do not have encyclopedic knowledge of every
single thing. If he gives me some warning, we will be able to work out how many
classes.
In answer to the general question, it
is interesting that the member mentioned the State School Teachers' Union. This is a person who hates unions. He is
anti�union, but he wants to use it for this purpose. Anyway , I will get
to the class sizes. We have an incredibly good relationship with —
Dr D.J. Honey interjected.
The SPEAKER : Order, please.
Dr A.D. BUTI : It has never
been an affiliate. Do not speak if you do not know what you are talking about!
Rip Van Winkle!
The SPEAKER : Order, please.
Can we just go back to answering the question that was asked.
Dr A.D. BUTI : The member for
Cottesloe is the Rip Van Winkle of WA politics; he fell asleep in about 1972.
Dr D.J. Honey interjected.
The SPEAKER : Member for
Cottesloe, I am asking you to desist. You did not ask this question and your
contribution is not helpful.
Dr A.D. BUTI : He fell asleep
in the early 1970s when the Liberal government —
The SPEAKER : Minister for
Education, this is not an opportunity to respond to the member for Cottesloe.
Please respond to the member for Roe.
Dr A.D. BUTI : The average class sizes in our public
schools in Western Australia continue to be well below the specified maximum
class sizes across all reported levels. In public schools, they remained
reasonably stable over the past six years
and were the same or smaller across all year levels in 2022 compared with the
previous three years . The agreed class sizes negotiated with the union
ranges from 20 students in kindergarten to 32 students in years 4 to 10.
However, the average number of students in our classes is between 18 and 27, so
that is well within the limit that was negotiated with the union. If some class
sizes are outside those limits—they are very few in number— they were negotiated and agreed to by the teachers
taking those classes. Some schools may run slightly larger classes for
reasons such as running single-year-level classes as a preference to split
classes, which they are permitted to do. This is done in negotiation with the
teacher. Consideration is given to additional supports such as duties other
than teaching, additional education assistants and Aboriginal and Islander
education officers. Unlike the previous government,
which cut the number of teachers, education assistants and AIEOs, this
government has been increasing the numbers.
Looking back to the height of the
previous government's lack of concern for our public schools, members
may recall that from the period 2013 to
2015, after the conservatives were re-elected, we saw over $200 million cut
directly from public school budgets in
2014, a further $45 million cut from secondary school budgets in 2015 and over
800 teaching positions cut in 2014–15.
Dr D.J. Honey interjected.
Dr A.D. BUTI : What was that,
Rip Van Winkle?
Dr D.J. Honey : Unlike you.
The SPEAKER : Order, please.
Dr A.D. BUTI : Over 1 000
education assistants were cut in 2014–15, 150 central and regional
office positions were cut, there were 200 redundancies across the sector in
2015, 110 Aboriginal and Islander education officers were cut in 2014 and there
was an average reduction in expenditure per student of $714 a year. In
comparison with the dismal effort by the conservatives when they were in power,
this Labor government has increased the number of EAs by over 1 400 since 2017
and employed an additional 90 psychologists over the same period. At the 2021
election, we committed an additional $42.2 million to employ more than 100 additional
FTE school psychologists over the next four years in Western Australian
schools. This commitment is for an incremental increase in the number of school
psychologists for public schools, commencing with an additional 40 FTEs in 2022
and rising to an additional 100 FTEs in 2025.
As the education minister, I am
proud to stand here to let the member for Roe know that in the budget that was just handed down, for the first time the total
annual funding for education in this state exceeded $6 billion. As I stated
before, I have a very good relationship with the State School Teachers'
Union of WA. We have met a number of times and we continue to have a good
working relationship. I will not be pre-empting the bargaining period. We will
see what happens as time goes on. Are you glad you asked that question?
Several members interjected.
The SPEAKER : Order, please!
might be able to provide the exact number. I might have a bit of
knowledge of education, but I do not have encyclopedic knowledge of every
single thing. If he gives me some warning, we will be able to work out how many
classes.
In answer to the general question, it
is interesting that the member mentioned the State School Teachers' Union. This is a person who hates unions. He is
anti�union, but he wants to use it for this purpose. Anyway , I will get
to the class sizes. We have an incredibly good relationship with —
Dr D.J. Honey interjected.
The SPEAKER : Order, please.
Dr A.D. BUTI : It has never
been an affiliate. Do not speak if you do not know what you are talking about!
Rip Van Winkle!
The SPEAKER : Order, please.
Can we just go back to answering the question that was asked.
Dr A.D. BUTI : The member for
Cottesloe is the Rip Van Winkle of WA politics; he fell asleep in about 1972.
Dr D.J. Honey interjected.
The SPEAKER : Member for
Cottesloe, I am asking you to desist. You did not ask this question and your
contribution is not helpful.
Dr A.D. BUTI : He fell asleep
in the early 1970s when the Liberal government —
The SPEAKER : Minister for
Education, this is not an opportunity to respond to the member for Cottesloe.
Please respond to the member for Roe.
Dr A.D. BUTI : The average class sizes in our public
schools in Western Australia continue to be well below the specified maximum
class sizes across all reported levels. In public schools, they remained
reasonably stable over the past six years
and were the same or smaller across all year levels in 2022 compared with the
previous three years . The agreed class sizes negotiated with the union
ranges from 20 students in kindergarten to 32 students in years 4 to 10.
However, the average number of students in our classes is between 18 and 27, so
that is well within the limit that was negotiated with the union. If some class
sizes are outside those limits—they are very few in number— they were negotiated and agreed to by the teachers
taking those classes. Some schools may run slightly larger classes for
reasons such as running single-year-level classes as a preference to split
classes, which they are permitted to do. This is done in negotiation with the
teacher. Consideration is given to additional supports such as duties other
than teaching, additional education assistants and Aboriginal and Islander
education officers. Unlike the previous government,
which cut the number of teachers, education assistants and AIEOs, this
government has been increasing the numbers.
Looking back to the height of the
previous government's lack of concern for our public schools, members
may recall that from the period 2013 to
2015, after the conservatives were re-elected, we saw over $200 million cut
directly from public school budgets in
2014, a further $45 million cut from secondary school budgets in 2015 and over
800 teaching positions cut in 2014–15.
Dr D.J. Honey interjected.
Dr A.D. BUTI : What was that,
Rip Van Winkle?
Dr D.J. Honey : Unlike you.
The SPEAKER : Order, please.
Dr A.D. BUTI : Over 1 000
education assistants were cut in 2014–15, 150 central and regional
office positions were cut, there were 200 redundancies across the sector in
2015, 110 Aboriginal and Islander education officers were cut in 2014 and there
was an average reduction in expenditure per student of $714 a year. In
comparison with the dismal effort by the conservatives when they were in power,
this Labor government has increased the number of EAs by over 1 400 since 2017
and employed an additional 90 psychologists over the same period. At the 2021
election, we committed an additional $42.2 million to employ more than 100 additional
FTE school psychologists over the next four years in Western Australian
schools. This commitment is for an incremental increase in the number of school
psychologists for public schools, commencing with an additional 40 FTEs in 2022
and rising to an additional 100 FTEs in 2025.
As the education minister, I am
proud to stand here to let the member for Roe know that in the budget that was just handed down, for the first time the total
annual funding for education in this state exceeded $6 billion. As I stated
before, I have a very good relationship with the State School Teachers'
Union of WA. We have met a number of times and we continue to have a good
working relationship. I will not be pre-empting the bargaining period. We will
see what happens as time goes on. Are you glad you asked that question?
Several members interjected.
The SPEAKER : Order, please!
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