❓ Mr Cook questions the government's decision to award Serco preferred tenderer status for services at Fiona Stanley Hospital, focusing on transparency and potential commercial-in-confidence clauses. Dr Hames avoids a direct answer, emphasizing it's contracting out, not privatisation.
AnsweredQoN 733Legislative Assembly
QuestionView source ↗
FIONA STANLEY HOSPITAL — PREFERRED SERVICES PROVIDER — SERCO AUSTRALIA
I refer to the state government’s decision to award preferred tenderer status to Serco to provide more than 30 privatised services at Fiona Stanley Hospital, including medical record keeping. I also note that the Liberal Party went to the 2008 election with a claim that it would deliver the highest standards of openness and accountability. (1) Will the government give an absolute guarantee that there will be no commercial-in-confidence clauses in its privatisation contract with Serco? (2) Will the minister table the Serco contract and all associated documents if and when the contract is finalised? (3) If no to (2), why not? Dr K.D. HAMES
I refer to the state government’s decision to award preferred tenderer status to Serco to provide more than 30 privatised services at Fiona Stanley Hospital, including medical record keeping. I also note that the Liberal Party went to the 2008 election with a claim that it would deliver the highest standards of openness and accountability. (1) Will the government give an absolute guarantee that there will be no commercial-in-confidence clauses in its privatisation contract with Serco? (2) Will the minister table the Serco contract and all associated documents if and when the contract is finalised? (3) If no to (2), why not? Dr K.D. HAMES
AnswerView source ↗
(1)–(3) As members know, this government is contracting out to Serco for the provision of services. Mr A.P. O’Gorman : Privatisation. Dr K.D. HAMES : The member for Joondalup calls it privatisation. I do not know how he regards the operating method of the Joondalup Health Campus. That is contracting out to the private sector. The member’s own leader made comments when he was last in government that that is not privatisation but the contracting out of services. Mr E.S. Ripper : Answer the question. Dr K.D. HAMES : Does the Leader of the Opposition think that I am not allowed to respond to interjections from his side? Is that his new policy? Mr E.S. Ripper : I just see that what you do on the other side is avoid answering the question. You have caught that bad habit from the Premier. Dr K.D. HAMES : I think I am answering the question extremely well. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Thank you, members! Dr K.D. HAMES : If the Leader of the Opposition does not want me to respond to interjections at all, I can adopt that as the new policy. Mr E.S. Ripper : No, it’s more entertaining if you do. It is no threat to us if you respond to an interjection. Dr K.D. HAMES : I thank the Leader of the Opposition; it is very kind of him to say so. Quite clearly, this is not privatisation; it is the contracting out of services. I made the point yesterday that the model we have put in place for Fiona Stanley Hospital is exactly the same as the one the South Australian government has used for Royal Adelaide Hospital. I went back and checked whether South Australia is contracting out for orderlies and cleaning and catering staff, and it is. The main hospital services—doctors, nurses and ancillary staff—will be provided by the government in South Australia, as they will be under our government. I made the point last night that I have a bit of sympathy for the issue of orderlies. I am looking at the issue of vertical integration. I think there may be a place for orderlies to remain part of the public health system. In response to the member’s questions, I do not know the answer to that. I am not directly involved in the negotiation of those contracts. The Department of Health is doing that. Mr E.S. Ripper : You could require that there be no such clauses. Dr K.D. HAMES : I do not know whether there are areas that require commercial confidentiality. Mr E.S. Ripper : You could establish government policy that there won’t be. Dr K.D. HAMES : Government policy in that area will be established by the Premier and cabinet, and not by me for a specific area. This is the contracting out of services. I would be interested to know what the Labor Party did in government with the contracting out of services. It contracted out in a large number of areas. Mr R.H. Cook : We want to know what you are doing in government. Dr K.D. HAMES : I might look at what the Labor Party did about making documents of that nature public. Mr E.S. Ripper : You won’t rule out commercial-in-confidence clauses? Dr K.D. HAMES : I might look at what South Australia did. No, I will not rule it out.
(1) Will the government give an absolute guarantee that there will be no commercial-in-confidence clauses in its privatisation contract with Serco? (2) Will the minister table the Serco contract and all associated documents if and when the contract is finalised? (3) If no to (2), why not? Dr K.D. HAMES replied: (1)–(3) As members know, this government is contracting out to Serco for the provision of services. Mr A.P. O’Gorman : Privatisation. Dr K.D. HAMES : The member for Joondalup calls it privatisation. I do not know how he regards the operating method of the Joondalup Health Campus. That is contracting out to the private sector. The member’s own leader made comments when he was last in government that that is not privatisation but the contracting out of services. Mr E.S. Ripper : Answer the question. Dr K.D. HAMES : Does the Leader of the Opposition think that I am not allowed to respond to interjections from his side? Is that his new policy? Mr E.S. Ripper : I just see that what you do on the other side is avoid answering the question. You have caught that bad habit from the Premier. Dr K.D. HAMES : I think I am answering the question extremely well. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Thank you, members! Dr K.D. HAMES : If the Leader of the Opposition does not want me to respond to interjections at all, I can adopt that as the new policy. Mr E.S. Ripper : No, it’s more entertaining if you do. It is no threat to us if you respond to an interjection. Dr K.D. HAMES : I thank the Leader of the Opposition; it is very kind of him to say so. Quite clearly, this is not privatisation; it is the contracting out of services. I made the point yesterday that the model we have put in place for Fiona Stanley Hospital is exactly the same as the one the South Australian government has used for Royal Adelaide Hospital. I went back and checked whether South Australia is contracting out for orderlies and cleaning and catering staff, and it is. The main hospital services—doctors, nurses and ancillary staff—will be provided by the government in South Australia, as they will be under our government. I made the point last night that I have a bit of sympathy for the issue of orderlies. I am looking at the issue of vertical integration. I think there may be a place for orderlies to remain part of the public health system. In response to the member’s questions, I do not know the answer to that. I am not directly involved in the negotiation of those contracts. The Department of Health is doing that. Mr E.S. Ripper : You could require that there be no such clauses. Dr K.D. HAMES : I do not know whether there are areas that require commercial confidentiality. Mr E.S. Ripper : You could establish government policy that there won’t be. Dr K.D. HAMES : Government policy in that area will be established by the Premier and cabinet, and not by me for a specific area. This is the contracting out of services. I would be interested to know what the Labor Party did in government with the contracting out of services. It contracted out in a large number of areas. Mr R.H. Cook : We want to know what you are doing in government. Dr K.D. HAMES : I might look at what the Labor Party did about making documents of that nature public. Mr E.S. Ripper : You won’t rule out commercial-in-confidence clauses? Dr K.D. HAMES : I might look at what South Australia did. No, I will not rule it out.
(2) Will the minister table the Serco contract and all associated documents if and when the contract is finalised? (3) If no to (2), why not? Dr K.D. HAMES replied: (1)–(3) As members know, this government is contracting out to Serco for the provision of services. Mr A.P. O’Gorman : Privatisation. Dr K.D. HAMES : The member for Joondalup calls it privatisation. I do not know how he regards the operating method of the Joondalup Health Campus. That is contracting out to the private sector. The member’s own leader made comments when he was last in government that that is not privatisation but the contracting out of services. Mr E.S. Ripper : Answer the question. Dr K.D. HAMES : Does the Leader of the Opposition think that I am not allowed to respond to interjections from his side? Is that his new policy? Mr E.S. Ripper : I just see that what you do on the other side is avoid answering the question. You have caught that bad habit from the Premier. Dr K.D. HAMES : I think I am answering the question extremely well. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Thank you, members! Dr K.D. HAMES : If the Leader of the Opposition does not want me to respond to interjections at all, I can adopt that as the new policy. Mr E.S. Ripper : No, it’s more entertaining if you do. It is no threat to us if you respond to an interjection. Dr K.D. HAMES : I thank the Leader of the Opposition; it is very kind of him to say so. Quite clearly, this is not privatisation; it is the contracting out of services. I made the point yesterday that the model we have put in place for Fiona Stanley Hospital is exactly the same as the one the South Australian government has used for Royal Adelaide Hospital. I went back and checked whether South Australia is contracting out for orderlies and cleaning and catering staff, and it is. The main hospital services—doctors, nurses and ancillary staff—will be provided by the government in South Australia, as they will be under our government. I made the point last night that I have a bit of sympathy for the issue of orderlies. I am looking at the issue of vertical integration. I think there may be a place for orderlies to remain part of the public health system. In response to the member’s questions, I do not know the answer to that. I am not directly involved in the negotiation of those contracts. The Department of Health is doing that. Mr E.S. Ripper : You could require that there be no such clauses. Dr K.D. HAMES : I do not know whether there are areas that require commercial confidentiality. Mr E.S. Ripper : You could establish government policy that there won’t be. Dr K.D. HAMES : Government policy in that area will be established by the Premier and cabinet, and not by me for a specific area. This is the contracting out of services. I would be interested to know what the Labor Party did in government with the contracting out of services. It contracted out in a large number of areas. Mr R.H. Cook : We want to know what you are doing in government. Dr K.D. HAMES : I might look at what the Labor Party did about making documents of that nature public. Mr E.S. Ripper : You won’t rule out commercial-in-confidence clauses? Dr K.D. HAMES : I might look at what South Australia did. No, I will not rule it out.
(3) If no to (2), why not? Dr K.D. HAMES replied: (1)–(3) As members know, this government is contracting out to Serco for the provision of services. Mr A.P. O’Gorman : Privatisation. Dr K.D. HAMES : The member for Joondalup calls it privatisation. I do not know how he regards the operating method of the Joondalup Health Campus. That is contracting out to the private sector. The member’s own leader made comments when he was last in government that that is not privatisation but the contracting out of services. Mr E.S. Ripper : Answer the question. Dr K.D. HAMES : Does the Leader of the Opposition think that I am not allowed to respond to interjections from his side? Is that his new policy? Mr E.S. Ripper : I just see that what you do on the other side is avoid answering the question. You have caught that bad habit from the Premier. Dr K.D. HAMES : I think I am answering the question extremely well. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Thank you, members! Dr K.D. HAMES : If the Leader of the Opposition does not want me to respond to interjections at all, I can adopt that as the new policy. Mr E.S. Ripper : No, it’s more entertaining if you do. It is no threat to us if you respond to an interjection. Dr K.D. HAMES : I thank the Leader of the Opposition; it is very kind of him to say so. Quite clearly, this is not privatisation; it is the contracting out of services. I made the point yesterday that the model we have put in place for Fiona Stanley Hospital is exactly the same as the one the South Australian government has used for Royal Adelaide Hospital. I went back and checked whether South Australia is contracting out for orderlies and cleaning and catering staff, and it is. The main hospital services—doctors, nurses and ancillary staff—will be provided by the government in South Australia, as they will be under our government. I made the point last night that I have a bit of sympathy for the issue of orderlies. I am looking at the issue of vertical integration. I think there may be a place for orderlies to remain part of the public health system. In response to the member’s questions, I do not know the answer to that. I am not directly involved in the negotiation of those contracts. The Department of Health is doing that. Mr E.S. Ripper : You could require that there be no such clauses. Dr K.D. HAMES : I do not know whether there are areas that require commercial confidentiality. Mr E.S. Ripper : You could establish government policy that there won’t be. Dr K.D. HAMES : Government policy in that area will be established by the Premier and cabinet, and not by me for a specific area. This is the contracting out of services. I would be interested to know what the Labor Party did in government with the contracting out of services. It contracted out in a large number of areas. Mr R.H. Cook : We want to know what you are doing in government. Dr K.D. HAMES : I might look at what the Labor Party did about making documents of that nature public. Mr E.S. Ripper : You won’t rule out commercial-in-confidence clauses? Dr K.D. HAMES : I might look at what South Australia did. No, I will not rule it out.
Dr K.D. HAMES replied: (1)–(3) As members know, this government is contracting out to Serco for the provision of services. Mr A.P. O’Gorman : Privatisation. Dr K.D. HAMES : The member for Joondalup calls it privatisation. I do not know how he regards the operating method of the Joondalup Health Campus. That is contracting out to the private sector. The member’s own leader made comments when he was last in government that that is not privatisation but the contracting out of services. Mr E.S. Ripper : Answer the question. Dr K.D. HAMES : Does the Leader of the Opposition think that I am not allowed to respond to interjections from his side? Is that his new policy? Mr E.S. Ripper : I just see that what you do on the other side is avoid answering the question. You have caught that bad habit from the Premier. Dr K.D. HAMES : I think I am answering the question extremely well. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Thank you, members! Dr K.D. HAMES : If the Leader of the Opposition does not want me to respond to interjections at all, I can adopt that as the new policy. Mr E.S. Ripper : No, it’s more entertaining if you do. It is no threat to us if you respond to an interjection. Dr K.D. HAMES : I thank the Leader of the Opposition; it is very kind of him to say so. Quite clearly, this is not privatisation; it is the contracting out of services. I made the point yesterday that the model we have put in place for Fiona Stanley Hospital is exactly the same as the one the South Australian government has used for Royal Adelaide Hospital. I went back and checked whether South Australia is contracting out for orderlies and cleaning and catering staff, and it is. The main hospital services—doctors, nurses and ancillary staff—will be provided by the government in South Australia, as they will be under our government. I made the point last night that I have a bit of sympathy for the issue of orderlies. I am looking at the issue of vertical integration. I think there may be a place for orderlies to remain part of the public health system. In response to the member’s questions, I do not know the answer to that. I am not directly involved in the negotiation of those contracts. The Department of Health is doing that. Mr E.S. Ripper : You could require that there be no such clauses. Dr K.D. HAMES : I do not know whether there are areas that require commercial confidentiality. Mr E.S. Ripper : You could establish government policy that there won’t be. Dr K.D. HAMES : Government policy in that area will be established by the Premier and cabinet, and not by me for a specific area. This is the contracting out of services. I would be interested to know what the Labor Party did in government with the contracting out of services. It contracted out in a large number of areas. Mr R.H. Cook : We want to know what you are doing in government. Dr K.D. HAMES : I might look at what the Labor Party did about making documents of that nature public. Mr E.S. Ripper : You won’t rule out commercial-in-confidence clauses? Dr K.D. HAMES : I might look at what South Australia did. No, I will not rule it out.
(1)–(3) As members know, this government is contracting out to Serco for the provision of services. Mr A.P. O’Gorman : Privatisation. Dr K.D. HAMES : The member for Joondalup calls it privatisation. I do not know how he regards the operating method of the Joondalup Health Campus. That is contracting out to the private sector. The member’s own leader made comments when he was last in government that that is not privatisation but the contracting out of services. Mr E.S. Ripper : Answer the question. Dr K.D. HAMES : Does the Leader of the Opposition think that I am not allowed to respond to interjections from his side? Is that his new policy? Mr E.S. Ripper : I just see that what you do on the other side is avoid answering the question. You have caught that bad habit from the Premier. Dr K.D. HAMES : I think I am answering the question extremely well. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Thank you, members! Dr K.D. HAMES : If the Leader of the Opposition does not want me to respond to interjections at all, I can adopt that as the new policy. Mr E.S. Ripper : No, it’s more entertaining if you do. It is no threat to us if you respond to an interjection. Dr K.D. HAMES : I thank the Leader of the Opposition; it is very kind of him to say so. Quite clearly, this is not privatisation; it is the contracting out of services. I made the point yesterday that the model we have put in place for Fiona Stanley Hospital is exactly the same as the one the South Australian government has used for Royal Adelaide Hospital. I went back and checked whether South Australia is contracting out for orderlies and cleaning and catering staff, and it is. The main hospital services—doctors, nurses and ancillary staff—will be provided by the government in South Australia, as they will be under our government. I made the point last night that I have a bit of sympathy for the issue of orderlies. I am looking at the issue of vertical integration. I think there may be a place for orderlies to remain part of the public health system. In response to the member’s questions, I do not know the answer to that. I am not directly involved in the negotiation of those contracts. The Department of Health is doing that. Mr E.S. Ripper : You could require that there be no such clauses. Dr K.D. HAMES : I do not know whether there are areas that require commercial confidentiality. Mr E.S. Ripper : You could establish government policy that there won’t be. Dr K.D. HAMES : Government policy in that area will be established by the Premier and cabinet, and not by me for a specific area. This is the contracting out of services. I would be interested to know what the Labor Party did in government with the contracting out of services. It contracted out in a large number of areas. Mr R.H. Cook : We want to know what you are doing in government. Dr K.D. HAMES : I might look at what the Labor Party did about making documents of that nature public. Mr E.S. Ripper : You won’t rule out commercial-in-confidence clauses? Dr K.D. HAMES : I might look at what South Australia did. No, I will not rule it out.
Mr A.P. O’Gorman : Privatisation. Dr K.D. HAMES : The member for Joondalup calls it privatisation. I do not know how he regards the operating method of the Joondalup Health Campus. That is contracting out to the private sector. The member’s own leader made comments when he was last in government that that is not privatisation but the contracting out of services. Mr E.S. Ripper : Answer the question. Dr K.D. HAMES : Does the Leader of the Opposition think that I am not allowed to respond to interjections from his side? Is that his new policy? Mr E.S. Ripper : I just see that what you do on the other side is avoid answering the question. You have caught that bad habit from the Premier. Dr K.D. HAMES : I think I am answering the question extremely well. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Thank you, members! Dr K.D. HAMES : If the Leader of the Opposition does not want me to respond to interjections at all, I can adopt that as the new policy. Mr E.S. Ripper : No, it’s more entertaining if you do. It is no threat to us if you respond to an interjection. Dr K.D. HAMES : I thank the Leader of the Opposition; it is very kind of him to say so. Quite clearly, this is not privatisation; it is the contracting out of services. I made the point yesterday that the model we have put in place for Fiona Stanley Hospital is exactly the same as the one the South Australian government has used for Royal Adelaide Hospital. I went back and checked whether South Australia is contracting out for orderlies and cleaning and catering staff, and it is. The main hospital services—doctors, nurses and ancillary staff—will be provided by the government in South Australia, as they will be under our government. I made the point last night that I have a bit of sympathy for the issue of orderlies. I am looking at the issue of vertical integration. I think there may be a place for orderlies to remain part of the public health system. In response to the member’s questions, I do not know the answer to that. I am not directly involved in the negotiation of those contracts. The Department of Health is doing that. Mr E.S. Ripper : You could require that there be no such clauses. Dr K.D. HAMES : I do not know whether there are areas that require commercial confidentiality. Mr E.S. Ripper : You could establish government policy that there won’t be. Dr K.D. HAMES : Government policy in that area will be established by the Premier and cabinet, and not by me for a specific area. This is the contracting out of services. I would be interested to know what the Labor Party did in government with the contracting out of services. It contracted out in a large number of areas. Mr R.H. Cook : We want to know what you are doing in government. Dr K.D. HAMES : I might look at what the Labor Party did about making documents of that nature public. Mr E.S. Ripper : You won’t rule out commercial-in-confidence clauses? Dr K.D. HAMES : I might look at what South Australia did. No, I will not rule it out.
Dr K.D. HAMES : The member for Joondalup calls it privatisation. I do not know how he regards the operating method of the Joondalup Health Campus. That is contracting out to the private sector. The member’s own leader made comments when he was last in government that that is not privatisation but the contracting out of services. Mr E.S. Ripper : Answer the question. Dr K.D. HAMES : Does the Leader of the Opposition think that I am not allowed to respond to interjections from his side? Is that his new policy? Mr E.S. Ripper : I just see that what you do on the other side is avoid answering the question. You have caught that bad habit from the Premier. Dr K.D. HAMES : I think I am answering the question extremely well. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Thank you, members! Dr K.D. HAMES : If the Leader of the Opposition does not want me to respond to interjections at all, I can adopt that as the new policy. Mr E.S. Ripper : No, it’s more entertaining if you do. It is no threat to us if you respond to an interjection. Dr K.D. HAMES : I thank the Leader of the Opposition; it is very kind of him to say so. Quite clearly, this is not privatisation; it is the contracting out of services. I made the point yesterday that the model we have put in place for Fiona Stanley Hospital is exactly the same as the one the South Australian government has used for Royal Adelaide Hospital. I went back and checked whether South Australia is contracting out for orderlies and cleaning and catering staff, and it is. The main hospital services—doctors, nurses and ancillary staff—will be provided by the government in South Australia, as they will be under our government. I made the point last night that I have a bit of sympathy for the issue of orderlies. I am looking at the issue of vertical integration. I think there may be a place for orderlies to remain part of the public health system. In response to the member’s questions, I do not know the answer to that. I am not directly involved in the negotiation of those contracts. The Department of Health is doing that. Mr E.S. Ripper : You could require that there be no such clauses. Dr K.D. HAMES : I do not know whether there are areas that require commercial confidentiality. Mr E.S. Ripper : You could establish government policy that there won’t be. Dr K.D. HAMES : Government policy in that area will be established by the Premier and cabinet, and not by me for a specific area. This is the contracting out of services. I would be interested to know what the Labor Party did in government with the contracting out of services. It contracted out in a large number of areas. Mr R.H. Cook : We want to know what you are doing in government. Dr K.D. HAMES : I might look at what the Labor Party did about making documents of that nature public. Mr E.S. Ripper : You won’t rule out commercial-in-confidence clauses? Dr K.D. HAMES : I might look at what South Australia did. No, I will not rule it out.
Mr E.S. Ripper : Answer the question. Dr K.D. HAMES : Does the Leader of the Opposition think that I am not allowed to respond to interjections from his side? Is that his new policy? Mr E.S. Ripper : I just see that what you do on the other side is avoid answering the question. You have caught that bad habit from the Premier. Dr K.D. HAMES : I think I am answering the question extremely well. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Thank you, members! Dr K.D. HAMES : If the Leader of the Opposition does not want me to respond to interjections at all, I can adopt that as the new policy. Mr E.S. Ripper : No, it’s more entertaining if you do. It is no threat to us if you respond to an interjection. Dr K.D. HAMES : I thank the Leader of the Opposition; it is very kind of him to say so. Quite clearly, this is not privatisation; it is the contracting out of services. I made the point yesterday that the model we have put in place for Fiona Stanley Hospital is exactly the same as the one the South Australian government has used for Royal Adelaide Hospital. I went back and checked whether South Australia is contracting out for orderlies and cleaning and catering staff, and it is. The main hospital services—doctors, nurses and ancillary staff—will be provided by the government in South Australia, as they will be under our government. I made the point last night that I have a bit of sympathy for the issue of orderlies. I am looking at the issue of vertical integration. I think there may be a place for orderlies to remain part of the public health system. In response to the member’s questions, I do not know the answer to that. I am not directly involved in the negotiation of those contracts. The Department of Health is doing that. Mr E.S. Ripper : You could require that there be no such clauses. Dr K.D. HAMES : I do not know whether there are areas that require commercial confidentiality. Mr E.S. Ripper : You could establish government policy that there won’t be. Dr K.D. HAMES : Government policy in that area will be established by the Premier and cabinet, and not by me for a specific area. This is the contracting out of services. I would be interested to know what the Labor Party did in government with the contracting out of services. It contracted out in a large number of areas. Mr R.H. Cook : We want to know what you are doing in government. Dr K.D. HAMES : I might look at what the Labor Party did about making documents of that nature public. Mr E.S. Ripper : You won’t rule out commercial-in-confidence clauses? Dr K.D. HAMES : I might look at what South Australia did. No, I will not rule it out.
Dr K.D. HAMES : Does the Leader of the Opposition think that I am not allowed to respond to interjections from his side? Is that his new policy? Mr E.S. Ripper : I just see that what you do on the other side is avoid answering the question. You have caught that bad habit from the Premier. Dr K.D. HAMES : I think I am answering the question extremely well. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Thank you, members! Dr K.D. HAMES : If the Leader of the Opposition does not want me to respond to interjections at all, I can adopt that as the new policy. Mr E.S. Ripper : No, it’s more entertaining if you do. It is no threat to us if you respond to an interjection. Dr K.D. HAMES : I thank the Leader of the Opposition; it is very kind of him to say so. Quite clearly, this is not privatisation; it is the contracting out of services. I made the point yesterday that the model we have put in place for Fiona Stanley Hospital is exactly the same as the one the South Australian government has used for Royal Adelaide Hospital. I went back and checked whether South Australia is contracting out for orderlies and cleaning and catering staff, and it is. The main hospital services—doctors, nurses and ancillary staff—will be provided by the government in South Australia, as they will be under our government. I made the point last night that I have a bit of sympathy for the issue of orderlies. I am looking at the issue of vertical integration. I think there may be a place for orderlies to remain part of the public health system. In response to the member’s questions, I do not know the answer to that. I am not directly involved in the negotiation of those contracts. The Department of Health is doing that. Mr E.S. Ripper : You could require that there be no such clauses. Dr K.D. HAMES : I do not know whether there are areas that require commercial confidentiality. Mr E.S. Ripper : You could establish government policy that there won’t be. Dr K.D. HAMES : Government policy in that area will be established by the Premier and cabinet, and not by me for a specific area. This is the contracting out of services. I would be interested to know what the Labor Party did in government with the contracting out of services. It contracted out in a large number of areas. Mr R.H. Cook : We want to know what you are doing in government. Dr K.D. HAMES : I might look at what the Labor Party did about making documents of that nature public. Mr E.S. Ripper : You won’t rule out commercial-in-confidence clauses? Dr K.D. HAMES : I might look at what South Australia did. No, I will not rule it out.
Mr E.S. Ripper : I just see that what you do on the other side is avoid answering the question. You have caught that bad habit from the Premier. Dr K.D. HAMES : I think I am answering the question extremely well. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Thank you, members! Dr K.D. HAMES : If the Leader of the Opposition does not want me to respond to interjections at all, I can adopt that as the new policy. Mr E.S. Ripper : No, it’s more entertaining if you do. It is no threat to us if you respond to an interjection. Dr K.D. HAMES : I thank the Leader of the Opposition; it is very kind of him to say so. Quite clearly, this is not privatisation; it is the contracting out of services. I made the point yesterday that the model we have put in place for Fiona Stanley Hospital is exactly the same as the one the South Australian government has used for Royal Adelaide Hospital. I went back and checked whether South Australia is contracting out for orderlies and cleaning and catering staff, and it is. The main hospital services—doctors, nurses and ancillary staff—will be provided by the government in South Australia, as they will be under our government. I made the point last night that I have a bit of sympathy for the issue of orderlies. I am looking at the issue of vertical integration. I think there may be a place for orderlies to remain part of the public health system. In response to the member’s questions, I do not know the answer to that. I am not directly involved in the negotiation of those contracts. The Department of Health is doing that. Mr E.S. Ripper : You could require that there be no such clauses. Dr K.D. HAMES : I do not know whether there are areas that require commercial confidentiality. Mr E.S. Ripper : You could establish government policy that there won’t be. Dr K.D. HAMES : Government policy in that area will be established by the Premier and cabinet, and not by me for a specific area. This is the contracting out of services. I would be interested to know what the Labor Party did in government with the contracting out of services. It contracted out in a large number of areas. Mr R.H. Cook : We want to know what you are doing in government. Dr K.D. HAMES : I might look at what the Labor Party did about making documents of that nature public. Mr E.S. Ripper : You won’t rule out commercial-in-confidence clauses? Dr K.D. HAMES : I might look at what South Australia did. No, I will not rule it out.
Dr K.D. HAMES : I think I am answering the question extremely well. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Thank you, members! Dr K.D. HAMES : If the Leader of the Opposition does not want me to respond to interjections at all, I can adopt that as the new policy. Mr E.S. Ripper : No, it’s more entertaining if you do. It is no threat to us if you respond to an interjection. Dr K.D. HAMES : I thank the Leader of the Opposition; it is very kind of him to say so. Quite clearly, this is not privatisation; it is the contracting out of services. I made the point yesterday that the model we have put in place for Fiona Stanley Hospital is exactly the same as the one the South Australian government has used for Royal Adelaide Hospital. I went back and checked whether South Australia is contracting out for orderlies and cleaning and catering staff, and it is. The main hospital services—doctors, nurses and ancillary staff—will be provided by the government in South Australia, as they will be under our government. I made the point last night that I have a bit of sympathy for the issue of orderlies. I am looking at the issue of vertical integration. I think there may be a place for orderlies to remain part of the public health system. In response to the member’s questions, I do not know the answer to that. I am not directly involved in the negotiation of those contracts. The Department of Health is doing that. Mr E.S. Ripper : You could require that there be no such clauses. Dr K.D. HAMES : I do not know whether there are areas that require commercial confidentiality. Mr E.S. Ripper : You could establish government policy that there won’t be. Dr K.D. HAMES : Government policy in that area will be established by the Premier and cabinet, and not by me for a specific area. This is the contracting out of services. I would be interested to know what the Labor Party did in government with the contracting out of services. It contracted out in a large number of areas. Mr R.H. Cook : We want to know what you are doing in government. Dr K.D. HAMES : I might look at what the Labor Party did about making documents of that nature public. Mr E.S. Ripper : You won’t rule out commercial-in-confidence clauses? Dr K.D. HAMES : I might look at what South Australia did. No, I will not rule it out.
Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Thank you, members! Dr K.D. HAMES : If the Leader of the Opposition does not want me to respond to interjections at all, I can adopt that as the new policy. Mr E.S. Ripper : No, it’s more entertaining if you do. It is no threat to us if you respond to an interjection. Dr K.D. HAMES : I thank the Leader of the Opposition; it is very kind of him to say so. Quite clearly, this is not privatisation; it is the contracting out of services. I made the point yesterday that the model we have put in place for Fiona Stanley Hospital is exactly the same as the one the South Australian government has used for Royal Adelaide Hospital. I went back and checked whether South Australia is contracting out for orderlies and cleaning and catering staff, and it is. The main hospital services—doctors, nurses and ancillary staff—will be provided by the government in South Australia, as they will be under our government. I made the point last night that I have a bit of sympathy for the issue of orderlies. I am looking at the issue of vertical integration. I think there may be a place for orderlies to remain part of the public health system. In response to the member’s questions, I do not know the answer to that. I am not directly involved in the negotiation of those contracts. The Department of Health is doing that. Mr E.S. Ripper : You could require that there be no such clauses. Dr K.D. HAMES : I do not know whether there are areas that require commercial confidentiality. Mr E.S. Ripper : You could establish government policy that there won’t be. Dr K.D. HAMES : Government policy in that area will be established by the Premier and cabinet, and not by me for a specific area. This is the contracting out of services. I would be interested to know what the Labor Party did in government with the contracting out of services. It contracted out in a large number of areas. Mr R.H. Cook : We want to know what you are doing in government. Dr K.D. HAMES : I might look at what the Labor Party did about making documents of that nature public. Mr E.S. Ripper : You won’t rule out commercial-in-confidence clauses? Dr K.D. HAMES : I might look at what South Australia did. No, I will not rule it out.
The SPEAKER : Thank you, members! Dr K.D. HAMES : If the Leader of the Opposition does not want me to respond to interjections at all, I can adopt that as the new policy. Mr E.S. Ripper : No, it’s more entertaining if you do. It is no threat to us if you respond to an interjection. Dr K.D. HAMES : I thank the Leader of the Opposition; it is very kind of him to say so. Quite clearly, this is not privatisation; it is the contracting out of services. I made the point yesterday that the model we have put in place for Fiona Stanley Hospital is exactly the same as the one the South Australian government has used for Royal Adelaide Hospital. I went back and checked whether South Australia is contracting out for orderlies and cleaning and catering staff, and it is. The main hospital services—doctors, nurses and ancillary staff—will be provided by the government in South Australia, as they will be under our government. I made the point last night that I have a bit of sympathy for the issue of orderlies. I am looking at the issue of vertical integration. I think there may be a place for orderlies to remain part of the public health system. In response to the member’s questions, I do not know the answer to that. I am not directly involved in the negotiation of those contracts. The Department of Health is doing that. Mr E.S. Ripper : You could require that there be no such clauses. Dr K.D. HAMES : I do not know whether there are areas that require commercial confidentiality. Mr E.S. Ripper : You could establish government policy that there won’t be. Dr K.D. HAMES : Government policy in that area will be established by the Premier and cabinet, and not by me for a specific area. This is the contracting out of services. I would be interested to know what the Labor Party did in government with the contracting out of services. It contracted out in a large number of areas. Mr R.H. Cook : We want to know what you are doing in government. Dr K.D. HAMES : I might look at what the Labor Party did about making documents of that nature public. Mr E.S. Ripper : You won’t rule out commercial-in-confidence clauses? Dr K.D. HAMES : I might look at what South Australia did. No, I will not rule it out.
Dr K.D. HAMES : If the Leader of the Opposition does not want me to respond to interjections at all, I can adopt that as the new policy. Mr E.S. Ripper : No, it’s more entertaining if you do. It is no threat to us if you respond to an interjection. Dr K.D. HAMES : I thank the Leader of the Opposition; it is very kind of him to say so. Quite clearly, this is not privatisation; it is the contracting out of services. I made the point yesterday that the model we have put in place for Fiona Stanley Hospital is exactly the same as the one the South Australian government has used for Royal Adelaide Hospital. I went back and checked whether South Australia is contracting out for orderlies and cleaning and catering staff, and it is. The main hospital services—doctors, nurses and ancillary staff—will be provided by the government in South Australia, as they will be under our government. I made the point last night that I have a bit of sympathy for the issue of orderlies. I am looking at the issue of vertical integration. I think there may be a place for orderlies to remain part of the public health system. In response to the member’s questions, I do not know the answer to that. I am not directly involved in the negotiation of those contracts. The Department of Health is doing that. Mr E.S. Ripper : You could require that there be no such clauses. Dr K.D. HAMES : I do not know whether there are areas that require commercial confidentiality. Mr E.S. Ripper : You could establish government policy that there won’t be. Dr K.D. HAMES : Government policy in that area will be established by the Premier and cabinet, and not by me for a specific area. This is the contracting out of services. I would be interested to know what the Labor Party did in government with the contracting out of services. It contracted out in a large number of areas. Mr R.H. Cook : We want to know what you are doing in government. Dr K.D. HAMES : I might look at what the Labor Party did about making documents of that nature public. Mr E.S. Ripper : You won’t rule out commercial-in-confidence clauses? Dr K.D. HAMES : I might look at what South Australia did. No, I will not rule it out.
Mr E.S. Ripper : No, it’s more entertaining if you do. It is no threat to us if you respond to an interjection. Dr K.D. HAMES : I thank the Leader of the Opposition; it is very kind of him to say so. Quite clearly, this is not privatisation; it is the contracting out of services. I made the point yesterday that the model we have put in place for Fiona Stanley Hospital is exactly the same as the one the South Australian government has used for Royal Adelaide Hospital. I went back and checked whether South Australia is contracting out for orderlies and cleaning and catering staff, and it is. The main hospital services—doctors, nurses and ancillary staff—will be provided by the government in South Australia, as they will be under our government. I made the point last night that I have a bit of sympathy for the issue of orderlies. I am looking at the issue of vertical integration. I think there may be a place for orderlies to remain part of the public health system. In response to the member’s questions, I do not know the answer to that. I am not directly involved in the negotiation of those contracts. The Department of Health is doing that. Mr E.S. Ripper : You could require that there be no such clauses. Dr K.D. HAMES : I do not know whether there are areas that require commercial confidentiality. Mr E.S. Ripper : You could establish government policy that there won’t be. Dr K.D. HAMES : Government policy in that area will be established by the Premier and cabinet, and not by me for a specific area. This is the contracting out of services. I would be interested to know what the Labor Party did in government with the contracting out of services. It contracted out in a large number of areas. Mr R.H. Cook : We want to know what you are doing in government. Dr K.D. HAMES : I might look at what the Labor Party did about making documents of that nature public. Mr E.S. Ripper : You won’t rule out commercial-in-confidence clauses? Dr K.D. HAMES : I might look at what South Australia did. No, I will not rule it out.
Dr K.D. HAMES : I thank the Leader of the Opposition; it is very kind of him to say so. Quite clearly, this is not privatisation; it is the contracting out of services. I made the point yesterday that the model we have put in place for Fiona Stanley Hospital is exactly the same as the one the South Australian government has used for Royal Adelaide Hospital. I went back and checked whether South Australia is contracting out for orderlies and cleaning and catering staff, and it is. The main hospital services—doctors, nurses and ancillary staff—will be provided by the government in South Australia, as they will be under our government. I made the point last night that I have a bit of sympathy for the issue of orderlies. I am looking at the issue of vertical integration. I think there may be a place for orderlies to remain part of the public health system. In response to the member’s questions, I do not know the answer to that. I am not directly involved in the negotiation of those contracts. The Department of Health is doing that. Mr E.S. Ripper : You could require that there be no such clauses. Dr K.D. HAMES : I do not know whether there are areas that require commercial confidentiality. Mr E.S. Ripper : You could establish government policy that there won’t be. Dr K.D. HAMES : Government policy in that area will be established by the Premier and cabinet, and not by me for a specific area. This is the contracting out of services. I would be interested to know what the Labor Party did in government with the contracting out of services. It contracted out in a large number of areas. Mr R.H. Cook : We want to know what you are doing in government. Dr K.D. HAMES : I might look at what the Labor Party did about making documents of that nature public. Mr E.S. Ripper : You won’t rule out commercial-in-confidence clauses? Dr K.D. HAMES : I might look at what South Australia did. No, I will not rule it out.
Quite clearly, this is not privatisation; it is the contracting out of services. I made the point yesterday that the model we have put in place for Fiona Stanley Hospital is exactly the same as the one the South Australian government has used for Royal Adelaide Hospital. I went back and checked whether South Australia is contracting out for orderlies and cleaning and catering staff, and it is. The main hospital services—doctors, nurses and ancillary staff—will be provided by the government in South Australia, as they will be under our government. I made the point last night that I have a bit of sympathy for the issue of orderlies. I am looking at the issue of vertical integration. I think there may be a place for orderlies to remain part of the public health system. In response to the member’s questions, I do not know the answer to that. I am not directly involved in the negotiation of those contracts. The Department of Health is doing that. Mr E.S. Ripper : You could require that there be no such clauses. Dr K.D. HAMES : I do not know whether there are areas that require commercial confidentiality. Mr E.S. Ripper : You could establish government policy that there won’t be. Dr K.D. HAMES : Government policy in that area will be established by the Premier and cabinet, and not by me for a specific area. This is the contracting out of services. I would be interested to know what the Labor Party did in government with the contracting out of services. It contracted out in a large number of areas. Mr R.H. Cook : We want to know what you are doing in government. Dr K.D. HAMES : I might look at what the Labor Party did about making documents of that nature public. Mr E.S. Ripper : You won’t rule out commercial-in-confidence clauses? Dr K.D. HAMES : I might look at what South Australia did. No, I will not rule it out.
In response to the member’s questions, I do not know the answer to that. I am not directly involved in the negotiation of those contracts. The Department of Health is doing that. Mr E.S. Ripper : You could require that there be no such clauses. Dr K.D. HAMES : I do not know whether there are areas that require commercial confidentiality. Mr E.S. Ripper : You could establish government policy that there won’t be. Dr K.D. HAMES : Government policy in that area will be established by the Premier and cabinet, and not by me for a specific area. This is the contracting out of services. I would be interested to know what the Labor Party did in government with the contracting out of services. It contracted out in a large number of areas. Mr R.H. Cook : We want to know what you are doing in government. Dr K.D. HAMES : I might look at what the Labor Party did about making documents of that nature public. Mr E.S. Ripper : You won’t rule out commercial-in-confidence clauses? Dr K.D. HAMES : I might look at what South Australia did. No, I will not rule it out.
Mr E.S. Ripper : You could require that there be no such clauses. Dr K.D. HAMES : I do not know whether there are areas that require commercial confidentiality. Mr E.S. Ripper : You could establish government policy that there won’t be. Dr K.D. HAMES : Government policy in that area will be established by the Premier and cabinet, and not by me for a specific area. This is the contracting out of services. I would be interested to know what the Labor Party did in government with the contracting out of services. It contracted out in a large number of areas. Mr R.H. Cook : We want to know what you are doing in government. Dr K.D. HAMES : I might look at what the Labor Party did about making documents of that nature public. Mr E.S. Ripper : You won’t rule out commercial-in-confidence clauses? Dr K.D. HAMES : I might look at what South Australia did. No, I will not rule it out.
Dr K.D. HAMES : I do not know whether there are areas that require commercial confidentiality. Mr E.S. Ripper : You could establish government policy that there won’t be. Dr K.D. HAMES : Government policy in that area will be established by the Premier and cabinet, and not by me for a specific area. This is the contracting out of services. I would be interested to know what the Labor Party did in government with the contracting out of services. It contracted out in a large number of areas. Mr R.H. Cook : We want to know what you are doing in government. Dr K.D. HAMES : I might look at what the Labor Party did about making documents of that nature public. Mr E.S. Ripper : You won’t rule out commercial-in-confidence clauses? Dr K.D. HAMES : I might look at what South Australia did. No, I will not rule it out.
Mr E.S. Ripper : You could establish government policy that there won’t be. Dr K.D. HAMES : Government policy in that area will be established by the Premier and cabinet, and not by me for a specific area. This is the contracting out of services. I would be interested to know what the Labor Party did in government with the contracting out of services. It contracted out in a large number of areas. Mr R.H. Cook : We want to know what you are doing in government. Dr K.D. HAMES : I might look at what the Labor Party did about making documents of that nature public. Mr E.S. Ripper : You won’t rule out commercial-in-confidence clauses? Dr K.D. HAMES : I might look at what South Australia did. No, I will not rule it out.
Dr K.D. HAMES : Government policy in that area will be established by the Premier and cabinet, and not by me for a specific area. This is the contracting out of services. I would be interested to know what the Labor Party did in government with the contracting out of services. It contracted out in a large number of areas. Mr R.H. Cook : We want to know what you are doing in government. Dr K.D. HAMES : I might look at what the Labor Party did about making documents of that nature public. Mr E.S. Ripper : You won’t rule out commercial-in-confidence clauses? Dr K.D. HAMES : I might look at what South Australia did. No, I will not rule it out.
Mr R.H. Cook : We want to know what you are doing in government. Dr K.D. HAMES : I might look at what the Labor Party did about making documents of that nature public. Mr E.S. Ripper : You won’t rule out commercial-in-confidence clauses? Dr K.D. HAMES : I might look at what South Australia did. No, I will not rule it out.
Dr K.D. HAMES : I might look at what the Labor Party did about making documents of that nature public. Mr E.S. Ripper : You won’t rule out commercial-in-confidence clauses? Dr K.D. HAMES : I might look at what South Australia did. No, I will not rule it out.
Mr E.S. Ripper : You won’t rule out commercial-in-confidence clauses? Dr K.D. HAMES : I might look at what South Australia did. No, I will not rule it out.
Dr K.D. HAMES : I might look at what South Australia did. No, I will not rule it out.
(1) Will the government give an absolute guarantee that there will be no commercial-in-confidence clauses in its privatisation contract with Serco? (2) Will the minister table the Serco contract and all associated documents if and when the contract is finalised? (3) If no to (2), why not? Dr K.D. HAMES replied: (1)–(3) As members know, this government is contracting out to Serco for the provision of services. Mr A.P. O’Gorman : Privatisation. Dr K.D. HAMES : The member for Joondalup calls it privatisation. I do not know how he regards the operating method of the Joondalup Health Campus. That is contracting out to the private sector. The member’s own leader made comments when he was last in government that that is not privatisation but the contracting out of services. Mr E.S. Ripper : Answer the question. Dr K.D. HAMES : Does the Leader of the Opposition think that I am not allowed to respond to interjections from his side? Is that his new policy? Mr E.S. Ripper : I just see that what you do on the other side is avoid answering the question. You have caught that bad habit from the Premier. Dr K.D. HAMES : I think I am answering the question extremely well. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Thank you, members! Dr K.D. HAMES : If the Leader of the Opposition does not want me to respond to interjections at all, I can adopt that as the new policy. Mr E.S. Ripper : No, it’s more entertaining if you do. It is no threat to us if you respond to an interjection. Dr K.D. HAMES : I thank the Leader of the Opposition; it is very kind of him to say so. Quite clearly, this is not privatisation; it is the contracting out of services. I made the point yesterday that the model we have put in place for Fiona Stanley Hospital is exactly the same as the one the South Australian government has used for Royal Adelaide Hospital. I went back and checked whether South Australia is contracting out for orderlies and cleaning and catering staff, and it is. The main hospital services—doctors, nurses and ancillary staff—will be provided by the government in South Australia, as they will be under our government. I made the point last night that I have a bit of sympathy for the issue of orderlies. I am looking at the issue of vertical integration. I think there may be a place for orderlies to remain part of the public health system. In response to the member’s questions, I do not know the answer to that. I am not directly involved in the negotiation of those contracts. The Department of Health is doing that. Mr E.S. Ripper : You could require that there be no such clauses. Dr K.D. HAMES : I do not know whether there are areas that require commercial confidentiality. Mr E.S. Ripper : You could establish government policy that there won’t be. Dr K.D. HAMES : Government policy in that area will be established by the Premier and cabinet, and not by me for a specific area. This is the contracting out of services. I would be interested to know what the Labor Party did in government with the contracting out of services. It contracted out in a large number of areas. Mr R.H. Cook : We want to know what you are doing in government. Dr K.D. HAMES : I might look at what the Labor Party did about making documents of that nature public. Mr E.S. Ripper : You won’t rule out commercial-in-confidence clauses? Dr K.D. HAMES : I might look at what South Australia did. No, I will not rule it out.
(2) Will the minister table the Serco contract and all associated documents if and when the contract is finalised? (3) If no to (2), why not? Dr K.D. HAMES replied: (1)–(3) As members know, this government is contracting out to Serco for the provision of services. Mr A.P. O’Gorman : Privatisation. Dr K.D. HAMES : The member for Joondalup calls it privatisation. I do not know how he regards the operating method of the Joondalup Health Campus. That is contracting out to the private sector. The member’s own leader made comments when he was last in government that that is not privatisation but the contracting out of services. Mr E.S. Ripper : Answer the question. Dr K.D. HAMES : Does the Leader of the Opposition think that I am not allowed to respond to interjections from his side? Is that his new policy? Mr E.S. Ripper : I just see that what you do on the other side is avoid answering the question. You have caught that bad habit from the Premier. Dr K.D. HAMES : I think I am answering the question extremely well. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Thank you, members! Dr K.D. HAMES : If the Leader of the Opposition does not want me to respond to interjections at all, I can adopt that as the new policy. Mr E.S. Ripper : No, it’s more entertaining if you do. It is no threat to us if you respond to an interjection. Dr K.D. HAMES : I thank the Leader of the Opposition; it is very kind of him to say so. Quite clearly, this is not privatisation; it is the contracting out of services. I made the point yesterday that the model we have put in place for Fiona Stanley Hospital is exactly the same as the one the South Australian government has used for Royal Adelaide Hospital. I went back and checked whether South Australia is contracting out for orderlies and cleaning and catering staff, and it is. The main hospital services—doctors, nurses and ancillary staff—will be provided by the government in South Australia, as they will be under our government. I made the point last night that I have a bit of sympathy for the issue of orderlies. I am looking at the issue of vertical integration. I think there may be a place for orderlies to remain part of the public health system. In response to the member’s questions, I do not know the answer to that. I am not directly involved in the negotiation of those contracts. The Department of Health is doing that. Mr E.S. Ripper : You could require that there be no such clauses. Dr K.D. HAMES : I do not know whether there are areas that require commercial confidentiality. Mr E.S. Ripper : You could establish government policy that there won’t be. Dr K.D. HAMES : Government policy in that area will be established by the Premier and cabinet, and not by me for a specific area. This is the contracting out of services. I would be interested to know what the Labor Party did in government with the contracting out of services. It contracted out in a large number of areas. Mr R.H. Cook : We want to know what you are doing in government. Dr K.D. HAMES : I might look at what the Labor Party did about making documents of that nature public. Mr E.S. Ripper : You won’t rule out commercial-in-confidence clauses? Dr K.D. HAMES : I might look at what South Australia did. No, I will not rule it out.
(3) If no to (2), why not? Dr K.D. HAMES replied: (1)–(3) As members know, this government is contracting out to Serco for the provision of services. Mr A.P. O’Gorman : Privatisation. Dr K.D. HAMES : The member for Joondalup calls it privatisation. I do not know how he regards the operating method of the Joondalup Health Campus. That is contracting out to the private sector. The member’s own leader made comments when he was last in government that that is not privatisation but the contracting out of services. Mr E.S. Ripper : Answer the question. Dr K.D. HAMES : Does the Leader of the Opposition think that I am not allowed to respond to interjections from his side? Is that his new policy? Mr E.S. Ripper : I just see that what you do on the other side is avoid answering the question. You have caught that bad habit from the Premier. Dr K.D. HAMES : I think I am answering the question extremely well. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Thank you, members! Dr K.D. HAMES : If the Leader of the Opposition does not want me to respond to interjections at all, I can adopt that as the new policy. Mr E.S. Ripper : No, it’s more entertaining if you do. It is no threat to us if you respond to an interjection. Dr K.D. HAMES : I thank the Leader of the Opposition; it is very kind of him to say so. Quite clearly, this is not privatisation; it is the contracting out of services. I made the point yesterday that the model we have put in place for Fiona Stanley Hospital is exactly the same as the one the South Australian government has used for Royal Adelaide Hospital. I went back and checked whether South Australia is contracting out for orderlies and cleaning and catering staff, and it is. The main hospital services—doctors, nurses and ancillary staff—will be provided by the government in South Australia, as they will be under our government. I made the point last night that I have a bit of sympathy for the issue of orderlies. I am looking at the issue of vertical integration. I think there may be a place for orderlies to remain part of the public health system. In response to the member’s questions, I do not know the answer to that. I am not directly involved in the negotiation of those contracts. The Department of Health is doing that. Mr E.S. Ripper : You could require that there be no such clauses. Dr K.D. HAMES : I do not know whether there are areas that require commercial confidentiality. Mr E.S. Ripper : You could establish government policy that there won’t be. Dr K.D. HAMES : Government policy in that area will be established by the Premier and cabinet, and not by me for a specific area. This is the contracting out of services. I would be interested to know what the Labor Party did in government with the contracting out of services. It contracted out in a large number of areas. Mr R.H. Cook : We want to know what you are doing in government. Dr K.D. HAMES : I might look at what the Labor Party did about making documents of that nature public. Mr E.S. Ripper : You won’t rule out commercial-in-confidence clauses? Dr K.D. HAMES : I might look at what South Australia did. No, I will not rule it out.
Dr K.D. HAMES replied: (1)–(3) As members know, this government is contracting out to Serco for the provision of services. Mr A.P. O’Gorman : Privatisation. Dr K.D. HAMES : The member for Joondalup calls it privatisation. I do not know how he regards the operating method of the Joondalup Health Campus. That is contracting out to the private sector. The member’s own leader made comments when he was last in government that that is not privatisation but the contracting out of services. Mr E.S. Ripper : Answer the question. Dr K.D. HAMES : Does the Leader of the Opposition think that I am not allowed to respond to interjections from his side? Is that his new policy? Mr E.S. Ripper : I just see that what you do on the other side is avoid answering the question. You have caught that bad habit from the Premier. Dr K.D. HAMES : I think I am answering the question extremely well. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Thank you, members! Dr K.D. HAMES : If the Leader of the Opposition does not want me to respond to interjections at all, I can adopt that as the new policy. Mr E.S. Ripper : No, it’s more entertaining if you do. It is no threat to us if you respond to an interjection. Dr K.D. HAMES : I thank the Leader of the Opposition; it is very kind of him to say so. Quite clearly, this is not privatisation; it is the contracting out of services. I made the point yesterday that the model we have put in place for Fiona Stanley Hospital is exactly the same as the one the South Australian government has used for Royal Adelaide Hospital. I went back and checked whether South Australia is contracting out for orderlies and cleaning and catering staff, and it is. The main hospital services—doctors, nurses and ancillary staff—will be provided by the government in South Australia, as they will be under our government. I made the point last night that I have a bit of sympathy for the issue of orderlies. I am looking at the issue of vertical integration. I think there may be a place for orderlies to remain part of the public health system. In response to the member’s questions, I do not know the answer to that. I am not directly involved in the negotiation of those contracts. The Department of Health is doing that. Mr E.S. Ripper : You could require that there be no such clauses. Dr K.D. HAMES : I do not know whether there are areas that require commercial confidentiality. Mr E.S. Ripper : You could establish government policy that there won’t be. Dr K.D. HAMES : Government policy in that area will be established by the Premier and cabinet, and not by me for a specific area. This is the contracting out of services. I would be interested to know what the Labor Party did in government with the contracting out of services. It contracted out in a large number of areas. Mr R.H. Cook : We want to know what you are doing in government. Dr K.D. HAMES : I might look at what the Labor Party did about making documents of that nature public. Mr E.S. Ripper : You won’t rule out commercial-in-confidence clauses? Dr K.D. HAMES : I might look at what South Australia did. No, I will not rule it out.
(1)–(3) As members know, this government is contracting out to Serco for the provision of services. Mr A.P. O’Gorman : Privatisation. Dr K.D. HAMES : The member for Joondalup calls it privatisation. I do not know how he regards the operating method of the Joondalup Health Campus. That is contracting out to the private sector. The member’s own leader made comments when he was last in government that that is not privatisation but the contracting out of services. Mr E.S. Ripper : Answer the question. Dr K.D. HAMES : Does the Leader of the Opposition think that I am not allowed to respond to interjections from his side? Is that his new policy? Mr E.S. Ripper : I just see that what you do on the other side is avoid answering the question. You have caught that bad habit from the Premier. Dr K.D. HAMES : I think I am answering the question extremely well. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Thank you, members! Dr K.D. HAMES : If the Leader of the Opposition does not want me to respond to interjections at all, I can adopt that as the new policy. Mr E.S. Ripper : No, it’s more entertaining if you do. It is no threat to us if you respond to an interjection. Dr K.D. HAMES : I thank the Leader of the Opposition; it is very kind of him to say so. Quite clearly, this is not privatisation; it is the contracting out of services. I made the point yesterday that the model we have put in place for Fiona Stanley Hospital is exactly the same as the one the South Australian government has used for Royal Adelaide Hospital. I went back and checked whether South Australia is contracting out for orderlies and cleaning and catering staff, and it is. The main hospital services—doctors, nurses and ancillary staff—will be provided by the government in South Australia, as they will be under our government. I made the point last night that I have a bit of sympathy for the issue of orderlies. I am looking at the issue of vertical integration. I think there may be a place for orderlies to remain part of the public health system. In response to the member’s questions, I do not know the answer to that. I am not directly involved in the negotiation of those contracts. The Department of Health is doing that. Mr E.S. Ripper : You could require that there be no such clauses. Dr K.D. HAMES : I do not know whether there are areas that require commercial confidentiality. Mr E.S. Ripper : You could establish government policy that there won’t be. Dr K.D. HAMES : Government policy in that area will be established by the Premier and cabinet, and not by me for a specific area. This is the contracting out of services. I would be interested to know what the Labor Party did in government with the contracting out of services. It contracted out in a large number of areas. Mr R.H. Cook : We want to know what you are doing in government. Dr K.D. HAMES : I might look at what the Labor Party did about making documents of that nature public. Mr E.S. Ripper : You won’t rule out commercial-in-confidence clauses? Dr K.D. HAMES : I might look at what South Australia did. No, I will not rule it out.
Mr A.P. O’Gorman : Privatisation. Dr K.D. HAMES : The member for Joondalup calls it privatisation. I do not know how he regards the operating method of the Joondalup Health Campus. That is contracting out to the private sector. The member’s own leader made comments when he was last in government that that is not privatisation but the contracting out of services. Mr E.S. Ripper : Answer the question. Dr K.D. HAMES : Does the Leader of the Opposition think that I am not allowed to respond to interjections from his side? Is that his new policy? Mr E.S. Ripper : I just see that what you do on the other side is avoid answering the question. You have caught that bad habit from the Premier. Dr K.D. HAMES : I think I am answering the question extremely well. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Thank you, members! Dr K.D. HAMES : If the Leader of the Opposition does not want me to respond to interjections at all, I can adopt that as the new policy. Mr E.S. Ripper : No, it’s more entertaining if you do. It is no threat to us if you respond to an interjection. Dr K.D. HAMES : I thank the Leader of the Opposition; it is very kind of him to say so. Quite clearly, this is not privatisation; it is the contracting out of services. I made the point yesterday that the model we have put in place for Fiona Stanley Hospital is exactly the same as the one the South Australian government has used for Royal Adelaide Hospital. I went back and checked whether South Australia is contracting out for orderlies and cleaning and catering staff, and it is. The main hospital services—doctors, nurses and ancillary staff—will be provided by the government in South Australia, as they will be under our government. I made the point last night that I have a bit of sympathy for the issue of orderlies. I am looking at the issue of vertical integration. I think there may be a place for orderlies to remain part of the public health system. In response to the member’s questions, I do not know the answer to that. I am not directly involved in the negotiation of those contracts. The Department of Health is doing that. Mr E.S. Ripper : You could require that there be no such clauses. Dr K.D. HAMES : I do not know whether there are areas that require commercial confidentiality. Mr E.S. Ripper : You could establish government policy that there won’t be. Dr K.D. HAMES : Government policy in that area will be established by the Premier and cabinet, and not by me for a specific area. This is the contracting out of services. I would be interested to know what the Labor Party did in government with the contracting out of services. It contracted out in a large number of areas. Mr R.H. Cook : We want to know what you are doing in government. Dr K.D. HAMES : I might look at what the Labor Party did about making documents of that nature public. Mr E.S. Ripper : You won’t rule out commercial-in-confidence clauses? Dr K.D. HAMES : I might look at what South Australia did. No, I will not rule it out.
Dr K.D. HAMES : The member for Joondalup calls it privatisation. I do not know how he regards the operating method of the Joondalup Health Campus. That is contracting out to the private sector. The member’s own leader made comments when he was last in government that that is not privatisation but the contracting out of services. Mr E.S. Ripper : Answer the question. Dr K.D. HAMES : Does the Leader of the Opposition think that I am not allowed to respond to interjections from his side? Is that his new policy? Mr E.S. Ripper : I just see that what you do on the other side is avoid answering the question. You have caught that bad habit from the Premier. Dr K.D. HAMES : I think I am answering the question extremely well. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Thank you, members! Dr K.D. HAMES : If the Leader of the Opposition does not want me to respond to interjections at all, I can adopt that as the new policy. Mr E.S. Ripper : No, it’s more entertaining if you do. It is no threat to us if you respond to an interjection. Dr K.D. HAMES : I thank the Leader of the Opposition; it is very kind of him to say so. Quite clearly, this is not privatisation; it is the contracting out of services. I made the point yesterday that the model we have put in place for Fiona Stanley Hospital is exactly the same as the one the South Australian government has used for Royal Adelaide Hospital. I went back and checked whether South Australia is contracting out for orderlies and cleaning and catering staff, and it is. The main hospital services—doctors, nurses and ancillary staff—will be provided by the government in South Australia, as they will be under our government. I made the point last night that I have a bit of sympathy for the issue of orderlies. I am looking at the issue of vertical integration. I think there may be a place for orderlies to remain part of the public health system. In response to the member’s questions, I do not know the answer to that. I am not directly involved in the negotiation of those contracts. The Department of Health is doing that. Mr E.S. Ripper : You could require that there be no such clauses. Dr K.D. HAMES : I do not know whether there are areas that require commercial confidentiality. Mr E.S. Ripper : You could establish government policy that there won’t be. Dr K.D. HAMES : Government policy in that area will be established by the Premier and cabinet, and not by me for a specific area. This is the contracting out of services. I would be interested to know what the Labor Party did in government with the contracting out of services. It contracted out in a large number of areas. Mr R.H. Cook : We want to know what you are doing in government. Dr K.D. HAMES : I might look at what the Labor Party did about making documents of that nature public. Mr E.S. Ripper : You won’t rule out commercial-in-confidence clauses? Dr K.D. HAMES : I might look at what South Australia did. No, I will not rule it out.
Mr E.S. Ripper : Answer the question. Dr K.D. HAMES : Does the Leader of the Opposition think that I am not allowed to respond to interjections from his side? Is that his new policy? Mr E.S. Ripper : I just see that what you do on the other side is avoid answering the question. You have caught that bad habit from the Premier. Dr K.D. HAMES : I think I am answering the question extremely well. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Thank you, members! Dr K.D. HAMES : If the Leader of the Opposition does not want me to respond to interjections at all, I can adopt that as the new policy. Mr E.S. Ripper : No, it’s more entertaining if you do. It is no threat to us if you respond to an interjection. Dr K.D. HAMES : I thank the Leader of the Opposition; it is very kind of him to say so. Quite clearly, this is not privatisation; it is the contracting out of services. I made the point yesterday that the model we have put in place for Fiona Stanley Hospital is exactly the same as the one the South Australian government has used for Royal Adelaide Hospital. I went back and checked whether South Australia is contracting out for orderlies and cleaning and catering staff, and it is. The main hospital services—doctors, nurses and ancillary staff—will be provided by the government in South Australia, as they will be under our government. I made the point last night that I have a bit of sympathy for the issue of orderlies. I am looking at the issue of vertical integration. I think there may be a place for orderlies to remain part of the public health system. In response to the member’s questions, I do not know the answer to that. I am not directly involved in the negotiation of those contracts. The Department of Health is doing that. Mr E.S. Ripper : You could require that there be no such clauses. Dr K.D. HAMES : I do not know whether there are areas that require commercial confidentiality. Mr E.S. Ripper : You could establish government policy that there won’t be. Dr K.D. HAMES : Government policy in that area will be established by the Premier and cabinet, and not by me for a specific area. This is the contracting out of services. I would be interested to know what the Labor Party did in government with the contracting out of services. It contracted out in a large number of areas. Mr R.H. Cook : We want to know what you are doing in government. Dr K.D. HAMES : I might look at what the Labor Party did about making documents of that nature public. Mr E.S. Ripper : You won’t rule out commercial-in-confidence clauses? Dr K.D. HAMES : I might look at what South Australia did. No, I will not rule it out.
Dr K.D. HAMES : Does the Leader of the Opposition think that I am not allowed to respond to interjections from his side? Is that his new policy? Mr E.S. Ripper : I just see that what you do on the other side is avoid answering the question. You have caught that bad habit from the Premier. Dr K.D. HAMES : I think I am answering the question extremely well. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Thank you, members! Dr K.D. HAMES : If the Leader of the Opposition does not want me to respond to interjections at all, I can adopt that as the new policy. Mr E.S. Ripper : No, it’s more entertaining if you do. It is no threat to us if you respond to an interjection. Dr K.D. HAMES : I thank the Leader of the Opposition; it is very kind of him to say so. Quite clearly, this is not privatisation; it is the contracting out of services. I made the point yesterday that the model we have put in place for Fiona Stanley Hospital is exactly the same as the one the South Australian government has used for Royal Adelaide Hospital. I went back and checked whether South Australia is contracting out for orderlies and cleaning and catering staff, and it is. The main hospital services—doctors, nurses and ancillary staff—will be provided by the government in South Australia, as they will be under our government. I made the point last night that I have a bit of sympathy for the issue of orderlies. I am looking at the issue of vertical integration. I think there may be a place for orderlies to remain part of the public health system. In response to the member’s questions, I do not know the answer to that. I am not directly involved in the negotiation of those contracts. The Department of Health is doing that. Mr E.S. Ripper : You could require that there be no such clauses. Dr K.D. HAMES : I do not know whether there are areas that require commercial confidentiality. Mr E.S. Ripper : You could establish government policy that there won’t be. Dr K.D. HAMES : Government policy in that area will be established by the Premier and cabinet, and not by me for a specific area. This is the contracting out of services. I would be interested to know what the Labor Party did in government with the contracting out of services. It contracted out in a large number of areas. Mr R.H. Cook : We want to know what you are doing in government. Dr K.D. HAMES : I might look at what the Labor Party did about making documents of that nature public. Mr E.S. Ripper : You won’t rule out commercial-in-confidence clauses? Dr K.D. HAMES : I might look at what South Australia did. No, I will not rule it out.
Mr E.S. Ripper : I just see that what you do on the other side is avoid answering the question. You have caught that bad habit from the Premier. Dr K.D. HAMES : I think I am answering the question extremely well. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Thank you, members! Dr K.D. HAMES : If the Leader of the Opposition does not want me to respond to interjections at all, I can adopt that as the new policy. Mr E.S. Ripper : No, it’s more entertaining if you do. It is no threat to us if you respond to an interjection. Dr K.D. HAMES : I thank the Leader of the Opposition; it is very kind of him to say so. Quite clearly, this is not privatisation; it is the contracting out of services. I made the point yesterday that the model we have put in place for Fiona Stanley Hospital is exactly the same as the one the South Australian government has used for Royal Adelaide Hospital. I went back and checked whether South Australia is contracting out for orderlies and cleaning and catering staff, and it is. The main hospital services—doctors, nurses and ancillary staff—will be provided by the government in South Australia, as they will be under our government. I made the point last night that I have a bit of sympathy for the issue of orderlies. I am looking at the issue of vertical integration. I think there may be a place for orderlies to remain part of the public health system. In response to the member’s questions, I do not know the answer to that. I am not directly involved in the negotiation of those contracts. The Department of Health is doing that. Mr E.S. Ripper : You could require that there be no such clauses. Dr K.D. HAMES : I do not know whether there are areas that require commercial confidentiality. Mr E.S. Ripper : You could establish government policy that there won’t be. Dr K.D. HAMES : Government policy in that area will be established by the Premier and cabinet, and not by me for a specific area. This is the contracting out of services. I would be interested to know what the Labor Party did in government with the contracting out of services. It contracted out in a large number of areas. Mr R.H. Cook : We want to know what you are doing in government. Dr K.D. HAMES : I might look at what the Labor Party did about making documents of that nature public. Mr E.S. Ripper : You won’t rule out commercial-in-confidence clauses? Dr K.D. HAMES : I might look at what South Australia did. No, I will not rule it out.
Dr K.D. HAMES : I think I am answering the question extremely well. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Thank you, members! Dr K.D. HAMES : If the Leader of the Opposition does not want me to respond to interjections at all, I can adopt that as the new policy. Mr E.S. Ripper : No, it’s more entertaining if you do. It is no threat to us if you respond to an interjection. Dr K.D. HAMES : I thank the Leader of the Opposition; it is very kind of him to say so. Quite clearly, this is not privatisation; it is the contracting out of services. I made the point yesterday that the model we have put in place for Fiona Stanley Hospital is exactly the same as the one the South Australian government has used for Royal Adelaide Hospital. I went back and checked whether South Australia is contracting out for orderlies and cleaning and catering staff, and it is. The main hospital services—doctors, nurses and ancillary staff—will be provided by the government in South Australia, as they will be under our government. I made the point last night that I have a bit of sympathy for the issue of orderlies. I am looking at the issue of vertical integration. I think there may be a place for orderlies to remain part of the public health system. In response to the member’s questions, I do not know the answer to that. I am not directly involved in the negotiation of those contracts. The Department of Health is doing that. Mr E.S. Ripper : You could require that there be no such clauses. Dr K.D. HAMES : I do not know whether there are areas that require commercial confidentiality. Mr E.S. Ripper : You could establish government policy that there won’t be. Dr K.D. HAMES : Government policy in that area will be established by the Premier and cabinet, and not by me for a specific area. This is the contracting out of services. I would be interested to know what the Labor Party did in government with the contracting out of services. It contracted out in a large number of areas. Mr R.H. Cook : We want to know what you are doing in government. Dr K.D. HAMES : I might look at what the Labor Party did about making documents of that nature public. Mr E.S. Ripper : You won’t rule out commercial-in-confidence clauses? Dr K.D. HAMES : I might look at what South Australia did. No, I will not rule it out.
Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Thank you, members! Dr K.D. HAMES : If the Leader of the Opposition does not want me to respond to interjections at all, I can adopt that as the new policy. Mr E.S. Ripper : No, it’s more entertaining if you do. It is no threat to us if you respond to an interjection. Dr K.D. HAMES : I thank the Leader of the Opposition; it is very kind of him to say so. Quite clearly, this is not privatisation; it is the contracting out of services. I made the point yesterday that the model we have put in place for Fiona Stanley Hospital is exactly the same as the one the South Australian government has used for Royal Adelaide Hospital. I went back and checked whether South Australia is contracting out for orderlies and cleaning and catering staff, and it is. The main hospital services—doctors, nurses and ancillary staff—will be provided by the government in South Australia, as they will be under our government. I made the point last night that I have a bit of sympathy for the issue of orderlies. I am looking at the issue of vertical integration. I think there may be a place for orderlies to remain part of the public health system. In response to the member’s questions, I do not know the answer to that. I am not directly involved in the negotiation of those contracts. The Department of Health is doing that. Mr E.S. Ripper : You could require that there be no such clauses. Dr K.D. HAMES : I do not know whether there are areas that require commercial confidentiality. Mr E.S. Ripper : You could establish government policy that there won’t be. Dr K.D. HAMES : Government policy in that area will be established by the Premier and cabinet, and not by me for a specific area. This is the contracting out of services. I would be interested to know what the Labor Party did in government with the contracting out of services. It contracted out in a large number of areas. Mr R.H. Cook : We want to know what you are doing in government. Dr K.D. HAMES : I might look at what the Labor Party did about making documents of that nature public. Mr E.S. Ripper : You won’t rule out commercial-in-confidence clauses? Dr K.D. HAMES : I might look at what South Australia did. No, I will not rule it out.
The SPEAKER : Thank you, members! Dr K.D. HAMES : If the Leader of the Opposition does not want me to respond to interjections at all, I can adopt that as the new policy. Mr E.S. Ripper : No, it’s more entertaining if you do. It is no threat to us if you respond to an interjection. Dr K.D. HAMES : I thank the Leader of the Opposition; it is very kind of him to say so. Quite clearly, this is not privatisation; it is the contracting out of services. I made the point yesterday that the model we have put in place for Fiona Stanley Hospital is exactly the same as the one the South Australian government has used for Royal Adelaide Hospital. I went back and checked whether South Australia is contracting out for orderlies and cleaning and catering staff, and it is. The main hospital services—doctors, nurses and ancillary staff—will be provided by the government in South Australia, as they will be under our government. I made the point last night that I have a bit of sympathy for the issue of orderlies. I am looking at the issue of vertical integration. I think there may be a place for orderlies to remain part of the public health system. In response to the member’s questions, I do not know the answer to that. I am not directly involved in the negotiation of those contracts. The Department of Health is doing that. Mr E.S. Ripper : You could require that there be no such clauses. Dr K.D. HAMES : I do not know whether there are areas that require commercial confidentiality. Mr E.S. Ripper : You could establish government policy that there won’t be. Dr K.D. HAMES : Government policy in that area will be established by the Premier and cabinet, and not by me for a specific area. This is the contracting out of services. I would be interested to know what the Labor Party did in government with the contracting out of services. It contracted out in a large number of areas. Mr R.H. Cook : We want to know what you are doing in government. Dr K.D. HAMES : I might look at what the Labor Party did about making documents of that nature public. Mr E.S. Ripper : You won’t rule out commercial-in-confidence clauses? Dr K.D. HAMES : I might look at what South Australia did. No, I will not rule it out.
Dr K.D. HAMES : If the Leader of the Opposition does not want me to respond to interjections at all, I can adopt that as the new policy. Mr E.S. Ripper : No, it’s more entertaining if you do. It is no threat to us if you respond to an interjection. Dr K.D. HAMES : I thank the Leader of the Opposition; it is very kind of him to say so. Quite clearly, this is not privatisation; it is the contracting out of services. I made the point yesterday that the model we have put in place for Fiona Stanley Hospital is exactly the same as the one the South Australian government has used for Royal Adelaide Hospital. I went back and checked whether South Australia is contracting out for orderlies and cleaning and catering staff, and it is. The main hospital services—doctors, nurses and ancillary staff—will be provided by the government in South Australia, as they will be under our government. I made the point last night that I have a bit of sympathy for the issue of orderlies. I am looking at the issue of vertical integration. I think there may be a place for orderlies to remain part of the public health system. In response to the member’s questions, I do not know the answer to that. I am not directly involved in the negotiation of those contracts. The Department of Health is doing that. Mr E.S. Ripper : You could require that there be no such clauses. Dr K.D. HAMES : I do not know whether there are areas that require commercial confidentiality. Mr E.S. Ripper : You could establish government policy that there won’t be. Dr K.D. HAMES : Government policy in that area will be established by the Premier and cabinet, and not by me for a specific area. This is the contracting out of services. I would be interested to know what the Labor Party did in government with the contracting out of services. It contracted out in a large number of areas. Mr R.H. Cook : We want to know what you are doing in government. Dr K.D. HAMES : I might look at what the Labor Party did about making documents of that nature public. Mr E.S. Ripper : You won’t rule out commercial-in-confidence clauses? Dr K.D. HAMES : I might look at what South Australia did. No, I will not rule it out.
Mr E.S. Ripper : No, it’s more entertaining if you do. It is no threat to us if you respond to an interjection. Dr K.D. HAMES : I thank the Leader of the Opposition; it is very kind of him to say so. Quite clearly, this is not privatisation; it is the contracting out of services. I made the point yesterday that the model we have put in place for Fiona Stanley Hospital is exactly the same as the one the South Australian government has used for Royal Adelaide Hospital. I went back and checked whether South Australia is contracting out for orderlies and cleaning and catering staff, and it is. The main hospital services—doctors, nurses and ancillary staff—will be provided by the government in South Australia, as they will be under our government. I made the point last night that I have a bit of sympathy for the issue of orderlies. I am looking at the issue of vertical integration. I think there may be a place for orderlies to remain part of the public health system. In response to the member’s questions, I do not know the answer to that. I am not directly involved in the negotiation of those contracts. The Department of Health is doing that. Mr E.S. Ripper : You could require that there be no such clauses. Dr K.D. HAMES : I do not know whether there are areas that require commercial confidentiality. Mr E.S. Ripper : You could establish government policy that there won’t be. Dr K.D. HAMES : Government policy in that area will be established by the Premier and cabinet, and not by me for a specific area. This is the contracting out of services. I would be interested to know what the Labor Party did in government with the contracting out of services. It contracted out in a large number of areas. Mr R.H. Cook : We want to know what you are doing in government. Dr K.D. HAMES : I might look at what the Labor Party did about making documents of that nature public. Mr E.S. Ripper : You won’t rule out commercial-in-confidence clauses? Dr K.D. HAMES : I might look at what South Australia did. No, I will not rule it out.
Dr K.D. HAMES : I thank the Leader of the Opposition; it is very kind of him to say so. Quite clearly, this is not privatisation; it is the contracting out of services. I made the point yesterday that the model we have put in place for Fiona Stanley Hospital is exactly the same as the one the South Australian government has used for Royal Adelaide Hospital. I went back and checked whether South Australia is contracting out for orderlies and cleaning and catering staff, and it is. The main hospital services—doctors, nurses and ancillary staff—will be provided by the government in South Australia, as they will be under our government. I made the point last night that I have a bit of sympathy for the issue of orderlies. I am looking at the issue of vertical integration. I think there may be a place for orderlies to remain part of the public health system. In response to the member’s questions, I do not know the answer to that. I am not directly involved in the negotiation of those contracts. The Department of Health is doing that. Mr E.S. Ripper : You could require that there be no such clauses. Dr K.D. HAMES : I do not know whether there are areas that require commercial confidentiality. Mr E.S. Ripper : You could establish government policy that there won’t be. Dr K.D. HAMES : Government policy in that area will be established by the Premier and cabinet, and not by me for a specific area. This is the contracting out of services. I would be interested to know what the Labor Party did in government with the contracting out of services. It contracted out in a large number of areas. Mr R.H. Cook : We want to know what you are doing in government. Dr K.D. HAMES : I might look at what the Labor Party did about making documents of that nature public. Mr E.S. Ripper : You won’t rule out commercial-in-confidence clauses? Dr K.D. HAMES : I might look at what South Australia did. No, I will not rule it out.
Quite clearly, this is not privatisation; it is the contracting out of services. I made the point yesterday that the model we have put in place for Fiona Stanley Hospital is exactly the same as the one the South Australian government has used for Royal Adelaide Hospital. I went back and checked whether South Australia is contracting out for orderlies and cleaning and catering staff, and it is. The main hospital services—doctors, nurses and ancillary staff—will be provided by the government in South Australia, as they will be under our government. I made the point last night that I have a bit of sympathy for the issue of orderlies. I am looking at the issue of vertical integration. I think there may be a place for orderlies to remain part of the public health system. In response to the member’s questions, I do not know the answer to that. I am not directly involved in the negotiation of those contracts. The Department of Health is doing that. Mr E.S. Ripper : You could require that there be no such clauses. Dr K.D. HAMES : I do not know whether there are areas that require commercial confidentiality. Mr E.S. Ripper : You could establish government policy that there won’t be. Dr K.D. HAMES : Government policy in that area will be established by the Premier and cabinet, and not by me for a specific area. This is the contracting out of services. I would be interested to know what the Labor Party did in government with the contracting out of services. It contracted out in a large number of areas. Mr R.H. Cook : We want to know what you are doing in government. Dr K.D. HAMES : I might look at what the Labor Party did about making documents of that nature public. Mr E.S. Ripper : You won’t rule out commercial-in-confidence clauses? Dr K.D. HAMES : I might look at what South Australia did. No, I will not rule it out.
In response to the member’s questions, I do not know the answer to that. I am not directly involved in the negotiation of those contracts. The Department of Health is doing that. Mr E.S. Ripper : You could require that there be no such clauses. Dr K.D. HAMES : I do not know whether there are areas that require commercial confidentiality. Mr E.S. Ripper : You could establish government policy that there won’t be. Dr K.D. HAMES : Government policy in that area will be established by the Premier and cabinet, and not by me for a specific area. This is the contracting out of services. I would be interested to know what the Labor Party did in government with the contracting out of services. It contracted out in a large number of areas. Mr R.H. Cook : We want to know what you are doing in government. Dr K.D. HAMES : I might look at what the Labor Party did about making documents of that nature public. Mr E.S. Ripper : You won’t rule out commercial-in-confidence clauses? Dr K.D. HAMES : I might look at what South Australia did. No, I will not rule it out.
Mr E.S. Ripper : You could require that there be no such clauses. Dr K.D. HAMES : I do not know whether there are areas that require commercial confidentiality. Mr E.S. Ripper : You could establish government policy that there won’t be. Dr K.D. HAMES : Government policy in that area will be established by the Premier and cabinet, and not by me for a specific area. This is the contracting out of services. I would be interested to know what the Labor Party did in government with the contracting out of services. It contracted out in a large number of areas. Mr R.H. Cook : We want to know what you are doing in government. Dr K.D. HAMES : I might look at what the Labor Party did about making documents of that nature public. Mr E.S. Ripper : You won’t rule out commercial-in-confidence clauses? Dr K.D. HAMES : I might look at what South Australia did. No, I will not rule it out.
Dr K.D. HAMES : I do not know whether there are areas that require commercial confidentiality. Mr E.S. Ripper : You could establish government policy that there won’t be. Dr K.D. HAMES : Government policy in that area will be established by the Premier and cabinet, and not by me for a specific area. This is the contracting out of services. I would be interested to know what the Labor Party did in government with the contracting out of services. It contracted out in a large number of areas. Mr R.H. Cook : We want to know what you are doing in government. Dr K.D. HAMES : I might look at what the Labor Party did about making documents of that nature public. Mr E.S. Ripper : You won’t rule out commercial-in-confidence clauses? Dr K.D. HAMES : I might look at what South Australia did. No, I will not rule it out.
Mr E.S. Ripper : You could establish government policy that there won’t be. Dr K.D. HAMES : Government policy in that area will be established by the Premier and cabinet, and not by me for a specific area. This is the contracting out of services. I would be interested to know what the Labor Party did in government with the contracting out of services. It contracted out in a large number of areas. Mr R.H. Cook : We want to know what you are doing in government. Dr K.D. HAMES : I might look at what the Labor Party did about making documents of that nature public. Mr E.S. Ripper : You won’t rule out commercial-in-confidence clauses? Dr K.D. HAMES : I might look at what South Australia did. No, I will not rule it out.
Dr K.D. HAMES : Government policy in that area will be established by the Premier and cabinet, and not by me for a specific area. This is the contracting out of services. I would be interested to know what the Labor Party did in government with the contracting out of services. It contracted out in a large number of areas. Mr R.H. Cook : We want to know what you are doing in government. Dr K.D. HAMES : I might look at what the Labor Party did about making documents of that nature public. Mr E.S. Ripper : You won’t rule out commercial-in-confidence clauses? Dr K.D. HAMES : I might look at what South Australia did. No, I will not rule it out.
Mr R.H. Cook : We want to know what you are doing in government. Dr K.D. HAMES : I might look at what the Labor Party did about making documents of that nature public. Mr E.S. Ripper : You won’t rule out commercial-in-confidence clauses? Dr K.D. HAMES : I might look at what South Australia did. No, I will not rule it out.
Dr K.D. HAMES : I might look at what the Labor Party did about making documents of that nature public. Mr E.S. Ripper : You won’t rule out commercial-in-confidence clauses? Dr K.D. HAMES : I might look at what South Australia did. No, I will not rule it out.
Mr E.S. Ripper : You won’t rule out commercial-in-confidence clauses? Dr K.D. HAMES : I might look at what South Australia did. No, I will not rule it out.
Dr K.D. HAMES : I might look at what South Australia did. No, I will not rule it out.
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