❓ Ms Freeman questions the Premier about conflicting statements regarding penalty rates, particularly in light of the Minister for Small Business's suggestions for their removal. The Premier clarifies the government's position, stating they have no plans to remove penalty rates but acknowledges the need to address the disadvantage faced by small businesses compared to larger retailers with enterprise agreements.
AnsweredQoN 825Legislative Assembly
QuestionView source ↗
PENALTY RATES — GOVERNMENT PLANS
825. Ms J.M. FREEMAN to the
Premier:
I refer to the
suggested removal of penalty rates, as proposed by the Minister for Small
Business yesterday, and to the Premier's comments in November last year
in relation to a review of the state awards that ''no-one will be worse
off under this legislation; I can guarantee that''. Will the Premier now
clear up the confusion and explain the government's plan for penalty
rates?
825. Ms J.M. FREEMAN to the
Premier:
I refer to the
suggested removal of penalty rates, as proposed by the Minister for Small
Business yesterday, and to the Premier's comments in November last year
in relation to a review of the state awards that ''no-one will be worse
off under this legislation; I can guarantee that''. Will the Premier now
clear up the confusion and explain the government's plan for penalty
rates?
AnswerView source ↗
The government does
not have any plans to remove penalty rates, but I want to make a comment about
penalty rates and about the comments made by the Minister for Small Business
and others. I accept the principle in the workplace that people who work out of
hours—that will generally mean night-time or weekend work—should
be paid a higher rate for that work. That is well established. What is the
reality out in the workplace? The first reality is that working patterns are
changing. Many industries now operate for extended hours; some operate 24/7 and
so on. We see that particularly in the mining industry. Those workplaces
servicing those industries also have similar patterns. If we take the most
obvious industry, which is retail, the large retailers—Coles,
Woolworths; the national chains—generally have enterprise bargaining
agreements, which actually bring a flatter rate of pay throughout the week.
Under the enterprise bargaining agreements they typically pay a higher hourly
rate during the week and maybe an additional rate over weekends or at
night-time. But the penalty in those agreements is far less than it is under
the awards. A typical small business will not have an industry-wide or
enterprise agreement in place and will pay according to the award. The award
contains very high penalties. What that means is that small business
proprietors are at a distinct disadvantage in competition with the larger
retailers.
Several members interjected.
Mr C.J. BARNETT : That is the reality. The minister can speak
for himself, but I think what we have got is the big end of town having
enterprise bargaining agreements with higher hourly rates, typically, through
the week, and lower penalty rates over the weekend, and small businesses
relying on awards, which have lower weekly rates and higher penalties over
weekends. Those small businesses are at a distinct disadvantage. I think that
is unfair. The other point I would make—I will keep to the retail
industry—is that I sympathise with people whose careers are in the
retail industry. The work is not high-paying. They work throughout the week and
maybe get a little overtime, and they support their families on that basis.
When the high penalties come into play on the weekend, who typically gets them?
It is people with a second job—part-time jobs; good on them—and
students. There is a 24/7 IGA near my house. I go there quite often late at
night after Parliament. Students are working there at those times and are
getting very high penalty rates. Why should students with a weekend job get a
higher hourly rate of pay?
Several members interjected.
The SPEAKER : Members!
Mr C.J. BARNETT : Members opposite do not take it seriously
because they do not actually look at the issue. I will put a rhetorical
question: why should a student working over a weekend get a higher hourly rate
of pay than a full-time person in the retail industry? I think that is grossly
unfair. Therefore, I think the comments made by the minister should draw public
attention. Members opposite should look at the issue. Members opposite just say
that they will protect penalty rates, because they think it is a bit of a
slogan around the workplace. They should do some work and look at who actually
benefits from those penalty rates. A constituent of mine came to me not long
ago and said that his daughter, a student, was doing some work over the weekend
—
Mr W.J. Johnston interjected.
The SPEAKER : Thank you, member for Cannington! I call you to order for the first
time.
Mr C.J. BARNETT : She was effectively getting paid close to
$50 an hour. She was embarrassed about it. Her father said that that is
patently wrong when adult workers, whose career is in this industry, are not
necessarily highly paid. The opposition says that it supports penalty
rates but it does not actually support a fair deal for permanent workers in an
industry like retail.
not have any plans to remove penalty rates, but I want to make a comment about
penalty rates and about the comments made by the Minister for Small Business
and others. I accept the principle in the workplace that people who work out of
hours—that will generally mean night-time or weekend work—should
be paid a higher rate for that work. That is well established. What is the
reality out in the workplace? The first reality is that working patterns are
changing. Many industries now operate for extended hours; some operate 24/7 and
so on. We see that particularly in the mining industry. Those workplaces
servicing those industries also have similar patterns. If we take the most
obvious industry, which is retail, the large retailers—Coles,
Woolworths; the national chains—generally have enterprise bargaining
agreements, which actually bring a flatter rate of pay throughout the week.
Under the enterprise bargaining agreements they typically pay a higher hourly
rate during the week and maybe an additional rate over weekends or at
night-time. But the penalty in those agreements is far less than it is under
the awards. A typical small business will not have an industry-wide or
enterprise agreement in place and will pay according to the award. The award
contains very high penalties. What that means is that small business
proprietors are at a distinct disadvantage in competition with the larger
retailers.
Several members interjected.
Mr C.J. BARNETT : That is the reality. The minister can speak
for himself, but I think what we have got is the big end of town having
enterprise bargaining agreements with higher hourly rates, typically, through
the week, and lower penalty rates over the weekend, and small businesses
relying on awards, which have lower weekly rates and higher penalties over
weekends. Those small businesses are at a distinct disadvantage. I think that
is unfair. The other point I would make—I will keep to the retail
industry—is that I sympathise with people whose careers are in the
retail industry. The work is not high-paying. They work throughout the week and
maybe get a little overtime, and they support their families on that basis.
When the high penalties come into play on the weekend, who typically gets them?
It is people with a second job—part-time jobs; good on them—and
students. There is a 24/7 IGA near my house. I go there quite often late at
night after Parliament. Students are working there at those times and are
getting very high penalty rates. Why should students with a weekend job get a
higher hourly rate of pay?
Several members interjected.
The SPEAKER : Members!
Mr C.J. BARNETT : Members opposite do not take it seriously
because they do not actually look at the issue. I will put a rhetorical
question: why should a student working over a weekend get a higher hourly rate
of pay than a full-time person in the retail industry? I think that is grossly
unfair. Therefore, I think the comments made by the minister should draw public
attention. Members opposite should look at the issue. Members opposite just say
that they will protect penalty rates, because they think it is a bit of a
slogan around the workplace. They should do some work and look at who actually
benefits from those penalty rates. A constituent of mine came to me not long
ago and said that his daughter, a student, was doing some work over the weekend
—
Mr W.J. Johnston interjected.
The SPEAKER : Thank you, member for Cannington! I call you to order for the first
time.
Mr C.J. BARNETT : She was effectively getting paid close to
$50 an hour. She was embarrassed about it. Her father said that that is
patently wrong when adult workers, whose career is in this industry, are not
necessarily highly paid. The opposition says that it supports penalty
rates but it does not actually support a fair deal for permanent workers in an
industry like retail.
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