❓ A parliamentary question regarding an accidental discharge of a Glock pistol within the WA Police Service, focusing on potential misleading statements by the Minister during Estimates Committee hearings and the Minister's awareness of the incident and similar incidents interstate.
AnsweredQoN 770Legislative Assembly
QuestionView source ↗
I refer the minister to the confirmed report that on 18 April 2003 a Western Australia Police Service Glock pistol accidentally discharged. (1) Is the minister aware that this incident was very similar in nature to one that resulted in the death of a policeman in New South Wales? (2) Is the minister aware that this incident is exactly the kind of incident that interstate experts have warned of with regard to the Glock pistol, including the Queensland Coroner, the New South Wales Public Service Association and the head of Queensland’s Special Emergency Response Team? (3) Will the minister now admit that she misled the Parliament during the Estimates Committee hearings last month when she specifically and repeatedly stated that there had not been any accidental discharges involving the Glock pistols? (4) Is the minister continuing to deny that neither she nor any of the senior police command team that attended the Estimates Committee hearings were aware that a Glock pistol had discharged accidentally? Mrs M.H. ROBERTS
AnswerView source ↗
(1)-(4) The answer to the first two questions is no. With regard to the third question, I am prepared to put on record what occurred during the Estimates Committee hearings. Quite a number of members were present when the member for Kalgoorlie asked if there had been an accidental discharge of one of the new Glock pistols. I did not know the answer, so I asked the commissioner, who was sitting on my right, and the deputy commissioner, who was sitting on my left - Mr Matthews and Mr Brennan. On Mr Brennan’s left was also one of the assistant commissioners, Dr O’Callaghan, and three other senior police personnel. None of those people was aware that there had been any incident involving an accidental discharge. The member for Kalgoorlie has suggested that I should know more about the day-to-day operations of the Police Service than either the Commissioner of Police or the Deputy Commissioner. Mr M.J. Birney: You have no idea what is happening. You misled Parliament. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: Mr Speaker, I would like the opportunity to explain, which I think I deserve. I was informed by the commissioner yesterday - and he was made aware of the incident for the first time yesterday, when he was advised by Deputy Commissioner Brennan after he had been approached by The West Australian newspaper - Mr R.F. Johnson: Doesn’t that concern you? The SPEAKER: Members. Mr M.J. Birney: You’re the minister! The SPEAKER: I call the member for Kalgoorlie to order. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: Mr Speaker, this is a serious issue and it would be helpful if the member for Kalgoorlie did not try to take over the member for Nedlands’ role of continuing to disrupt question time. This is a serious issue. It is a matter that I do want to explain fully on the record. The fact of the matter is that an incident did occur on 18 April this year. At that time the commissioner was on leave and Mr Bruce Brennan, the deputy commissioner, was acting in that position. I am given to understand that Mr Brennan was not aware of the incident. It is debatable whether this could be called an accidental discharge at all - Mr M.J. Birney interjected. Mr J.N. Hyde: A bloke pulled the trigger! It didn’t go off by itself. The SPEAKER: Members! I call the member for Perth to order for the second time. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: Mr Speaker, I want to explain exactly what the incident involved and then people can come to their own conclusions about it. On 18 April at our central station an officer took from a secure area his allocated Glock pistol. He then took a magazine and loaded that into the pistol and put that in his holster. He got another magazine and loaded it in the appropriate place on his belt. Mr M.J. Birney: He can only load one at a time. The SPEAKER: Member for Kalgoorlie! Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: The member is the one who does not know what he is talking about. I have now read the incident report that has been provided to me, and I am providing the member with the facts. Mr M.J. Birney interjected. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: The member has not even listened. I have said that the officer loaded the first magazine into the pistol and he loaded the other magazine into his belt. This was essentially the explanation given to me by the Commissioner of Police late yesterday afternoon, and it has been confirmed by an incident briefing note that I have been given. The officer then did something really stupid. He decided to not only depress the trigger but also fully ratchet the appropriate lever on the gun to put it into a firing position, and then he fully depressed the trigger. In those circumstances if the Glock pistol had not fired, we would be asking for our money back. The fact of the matter is that human error cannot be eliminated. Similar instances of human error have occurred with all the other guns. However, we do know that all the professional evidence points to the fact that this gun has more safety mechanisms than any of the alternative guns. It is used by over 600 policing agencies in over 100 countries throughout the world, and it has a reputation as being one of the safest guns available to police services. I do not know whether somebody from one of the other manufacturers is paying the member for Kalgoorlie or what his particular issue is - Withdrawal of Remark Mr C.J. BARNETT: The minister has quite clearly impugned the reputation of the member for Kalgoorlie by implying that he was in receipt of financial benefit for asking questions and pursuing an issue. That is clearly impugning him, Mr Speaker, and I require and request that you call her to order. The SPEAKER: I was listening to what the Minister for Police said. She said that she did not know whether the member was in the employ of somebody. However, it is sailing too close to the wind and I ask the minister to withdraw that comment. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: I apologise, but I am at a loss to understand - Several members interjected. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: I have withdrawn it. I am quite happy to apologise and withdraw if the member is telling me that that is not the case. I fully apologise and withdraw. Questions without Notice Resumed Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: There is a lot of rabble opposite, Mr Speaker. Point of Order Mr R.F. JOHNSON: As I understand it, Mr Speaker, you required the minister to withdraw the comment. Dr G.I. Gallop: She did. Mr R.F. JOHNSON: She has not withdrawn without qualification. Dr G.I. Gallop: She has apologised and withdrawn. Mr R.F. JOHNSON: No, she has not; not without qualification. I draw that to your attention, Mr Speaker. The SPEAKER: The minister has withdrawn and apologised. Questions without Notice Resumed Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: That is quite certainly the case. What puzzles me is why the member for Kalgoorlie has become so obsessed about this issue. The incident that has been referred to is a matter of a gun performing as it is designed to perform. There is no issue with the gun arising out of the incident. There is an issue with the officer. It seems quite unreasonable for members opposite to suggest to me that I should know what the commissioner and the deputy commissioner did not know and what had not been reported to them. I made it quite clear when I gave the answer during the Estimates Committee hearing that the advice from the commissioner was that there had been no accidental discharge. Both the commissioner and the deputy commissioner have assured me that, although it is debatable whether it was an accidental discharge, if they had been aware of the incident, they would have said so at the time and we would have reported it fully in the Parliament. Mr J.N. Hyde interjected. The SPEAKER: Member for Perth!
(1) Is the minister aware that this incident was very similar in nature to one that resulted in the death of a policeman in New South Wales? (2) Is the minister aware that this incident is exactly the kind of incident that interstate experts have warned of with regard to the Glock pistol, including the Queensland Coroner, the New South Wales Public Service Association and the head of Queensland’s Special Emergency Response Team? (3) Will the minister now admit that she misled the Parliament during the Estimates Committee hearings last month when she specifically and repeatedly stated that there had not been any accidental discharges involving the Glock pistols? (4) Is the minister continuing to deny that neither she nor any of the senior police command team that attended the Estimates Committee hearings were aware that a Glock pistol had discharged accidentally? Mrs M.H. ROBERTS replied: (1)-(4) The answer to the first two questions is no. With regard to the third question, I am prepared to put on record what occurred during the Estimates Committee hearings. Quite a number of members were present when the member for Kalgoorlie asked if there had been an accidental discharge of one of the new Glock pistols. I did not know the answer, so I asked the commissioner, who was sitting on my right, and the deputy commissioner, who was sitting on my left - Mr Matthews and Mr Brennan. On Mr Brennan’s left was also one of the assistant commissioners, Dr O’Callaghan, and three other senior police personnel. None of those people was aware that there had been any incident involving an accidental discharge. The member for Kalgoorlie has suggested that I should know more about the day-to-day operations of the Police Service than either the Commissioner of Police or the Deputy Commissioner. Mr M.J. Birney: You have no idea what is happening. You misled Parliament. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: Mr Speaker, I would like the opportunity to explain, which I think I deserve. I was informed by the commissioner yesterday - and he was made aware of the incident for the first time yesterday, when he was advised by Deputy Commissioner Brennan after he had been approached by The West Australian newspaper - Mr R.F. Johnson: Doesn’t that concern you? The SPEAKER: Members. Mr M.J. Birney: You’re the minister! The SPEAKER: I call the member for Kalgoorlie to order. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: Mr Speaker, this is a serious issue and it would be helpful if the member for Kalgoorlie did not try to take over the member for Nedlands’ role of continuing to disrupt question time. This is a serious issue. It is a matter that I do want to explain fully on the record. The fact of the matter is that an incident did occur on 18 April this year. At that time the commissioner was on leave and Mr Bruce Brennan, the deputy commissioner, was acting in that position. I am given to understand that Mr Brennan was not aware of the incident. It is debatable whether this could be called an accidental discharge at all - Mr M.J. Birney interjected. Mr J.N. Hyde: A bloke pulled the trigger! It didn’t go off by itself. The SPEAKER: Members! I call the member for Perth to order for the second time. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: Mr Speaker, I want to explain exactly what the incident involved and then people can come to their own conclusions about it. On 18 April at our central station an officer took from a secure area his allocated Glock pistol. He then took a magazine and loaded that into the pistol and put that in his holster. He got another magazine and loaded it in the appropriate place on his belt. Mr M.J. Birney: He can only load one at a time. The SPEAKER: Member for Kalgoorlie! Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: The member is the one who does not know what he is talking about. I have now read the incident report that has been provided to me, and I am providing the member with the facts. Mr M.J. Birney interjected. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: The member has not even listened. I have said that the officer loaded the first magazine into the pistol and he loaded the other magazine into his belt. This was essentially the explanation given to me by the Commissioner of Police late yesterday afternoon, and it has been confirmed by an incident briefing note that I have been given. The officer then did something really stupid. He decided to not only depress the trigger but also fully ratchet the appropriate lever on the gun to put it into a firing position, and then he fully depressed the trigger. In those circumstances if the Glock pistol had not fired, we would be asking for our money back. The fact of the matter is that human error cannot be eliminated. Similar instances of human error have occurred with all the other guns. However, we do know that all the professional evidence points to the fact that this gun has more safety mechanisms than any of the alternative guns. It is used by over 600 policing agencies in over 100 countries throughout the world, and it has a reputation as being one of the safest guns available to police services. I do not know whether somebody from one of the other manufacturers is paying the member for Kalgoorlie or what his particular issue is - Withdrawal of Remark Mr C.J. BARNETT: The minister has quite clearly impugned the reputation of the member for Kalgoorlie by implying that he was in receipt of financial benefit for asking questions and pursuing an issue. That is clearly impugning him, Mr Speaker, and I require and request that you call her to order. The SPEAKER: I was listening to what the Minister for Police said. She said that she did not know whether the member was in the employ of somebody. However, it is sailing too close to the wind and I ask the minister to withdraw that comment. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: I apologise, but I am at a loss to understand - Several members interjected. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: I have withdrawn it. I am quite happy to apologise and withdraw if the member is telling me that that is not the case. I fully apologise and withdraw. Questions without Notice Resumed Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: There is a lot of rabble opposite, Mr Speaker. Point of Order Mr R.F. JOHNSON: As I understand it, Mr Speaker, you required the minister to withdraw the comment. Dr G.I. Gallop: She did. Mr R.F. JOHNSON: She has not withdrawn without qualification. Dr G.I. Gallop: She has apologised and withdrawn. Mr R.F. JOHNSON: No, she has not; not without qualification. I draw that to your attention, Mr Speaker. The SPEAKER: The minister has withdrawn and apologised. Questions without Notice Resumed Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: That is quite certainly the case. What puzzles me is why the member for Kalgoorlie has become so obsessed about this issue. The incident that has been referred to is a matter of a gun performing as it is designed to perform. There is no issue with the gun arising out of the incident. There is an issue with the officer. It seems quite unreasonable for members opposite to suggest to me that I should know what the commissioner and the deputy commissioner did not know and what had not been reported to them. I made it quite clear when I gave the answer during the Estimates Committee hearing that the advice from the commissioner was that there had been no accidental discharge. Both the commissioner and the deputy commissioner have assured me that, although it is debatable whether it was an accidental discharge, if they had been aware of the incident, they would have said so at the time and we would have reported it fully in the Parliament. Mr J.N. Hyde interjected. The SPEAKER: Member for Perth!
(2) Is the minister aware that this incident is exactly the kind of incident that interstate experts have warned of with regard to the Glock pistol, including the Queensland Coroner, the New South Wales Public Service Association and the head of Queensland’s Special Emergency Response Team? (3) Will the minister now admit that she misled the Parliament during the Estimates Committee hearings last month when she specifically and repeatedly stated that there had not been any accidental discharges involving the Glock pistols? (4) Is the minister continuing to deny that neither she nor any of the senior police command team that attended the Estimates Committee hearings were aware that a Glock pistol had discharged accidentally? Mrs M.H. ROBERTS replied: (1)-(4) The answer to the first two questions is no. With regard to the third question, I am prepared to put on record what occurred during the Estimates Committee hearings. Quite a number of members were present when the member for Kalgoorlie asked if there had been an accidental discharge of one of the new Glock pistols. I did not know the answer, so I asked the commissioner, who was sitting on my right, and the deputy commissioner, who was sitting on my left - Mr Matthews and Mr Brennan. On Mr Brennan’s left was also one of the assistant commissioners, Dr O’Callaghan, and three other senior police personnel. None of those people was aware that there had been any incident involving an accidental discharge. The member for Kalgoorlie has suggested that I should know more about the day-to-day operations of the Police Service than either the Commissioner of Police or the Deputy Commissioner. Mr M.J. Birney: You have no idea what is happening. You misled Parliament. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: Mr Speaker, I would like the opportunity to explain, which I think I deserve. I was informed by the commissioner yesterday - and he was made aware of the incident for the first time yesterday, when he was advised by Deputy Commissioner Brennan after he had been approached by The West Australian newspaper - Mr R.F. Johnson: Doesn’t that concern you? The SPEAKER: Members. Mr M.J. Birney: You’re the minister! The SPEAKER: I call the member for Kalgoorlie to order. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: Mr Speaker, this is a serious issue and it would be helpful if the member for Kalgoorlie did not try to take over the member for Nedlands’ role of continuing to disrupt question time. This is a serious issue. It is a matter that I do want to explain fully on the record. The fact of the matter is that an incident did occur on 18 April this year. At that time the commissioner was on leave and Mr Bruce Brennan, the deputy commissioner, was acting in that position. I am given to understand that Mr Brennan was not aware of the incident. It is debatable whether this could be called an accidental discharge at all - Mr M.J. Birney interjected. Mr J.N. Hyde: A bloke pulled the trigger! It didn’t go off by itself. The SPEAKER: Members! I call the member for Perth to order for the second time. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: Mr Speaker, I want to explain exactly what the incident involved and then people can come to their own conclusions about it. On 18 April at our central station an officer took from a secure area his allocated Glock pistol. He then took a magazine and loaded that into the pistol and put that in his holster. He got another magazine and loaded it in the appropriate place on his belt. Mr M.J. Birney: He can only load one at a time. The SPEAKER: Member for Kalgoorlie! Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: The member is the one who does not know what he is talking about. I have now read the incident report that has been provided to me, and I am providing the member with the facts. Mr M.J. Birney interjected. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: The member has not even listened. I have said that the officer loaded the first magazine into the pistol and he loaded the other magazine into his belt. This was essentially the explanation given to me by the Commissioner of Police late yesterday afternoon, and it has been confirmed by an incident briefing note that I have been given. The officer then did something really stupid. He decided to not only depress the trigger but also fully ratchet the appropriate lever on the gun to put it into a firing position, and then he fully depressed the trigger. In those circumstances if the Glock pistol had not fired, we would be asking for our money back. The fact of the matter is that human error cannot be eliminated. Similar instances of human error have occurred with all the other guns. However, we do know that all the professional evidence points to the fact that this gun has more safety mechanisms than any of the alternative guns. It is used by over 600 policing agencies in over 100 countries throughout the world, and it has a reputation as being one of the safest guns available to police services. I do not know whether somebody from one of the other manufacturers is paying the member for Kalgoorlie or what his particular issue is - Withdrawal of Remark Mr C.J. BARNETT: The minister has quite clearly impugned the reputation of the member for Kalgoorlie by implying that he was in receipt of financial benefit for asking questions and pursuing an issue. That is clearly impugning him, Mr Speaker, and I require and request that you call her to order. The SPEAKER: I was listening to what the Minister for Police said. She said that she did not know whether the member was in the employ of somebody. However, it is sailing too close to the wind and I ask the minister to withdraw that comment. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: I apologise, but I am at a loss to understand - Several members interjected. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: I have withdrawn it. I am quite happy to apologise and withdraw if the member is telling me that that is not the case. I fully apologise and withdraw. Questions without Notice Resumed Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: There is a lot of rabble opposite, Mr Speaker. Point of Order Mr R.F. JOHNSON: As I understand it, Mr Speaker, you required the minister to withdraw the comment. Dr G.I. Gallop: She did. Mr R.F. JOHNSON: She has not withdrawn without qualification. Dr G.I. Gallop: She has apologised and withdrawn. Mr R.F. JOHNSON: No, she has not; not without qualification. I draw that to your attention, Mr Speaker. The SPEAKER: The minister has withdrawn and apologised. Questions without Notice Resumed Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: That is quite certainly the case. What puzzles me is why the member for Kalgoorlie has become so obsessed about this issue. The incident that has been referred to is a matter of a gun performing as it is designed to perform. There is no issue with the gun arising out of the incident. There is an issue with the officer. It seems quite unreasonable for members opposite to suggest to me that I should know what the commissioner and the deputy commissioner did not know and what had not been reported to them. I made it quite clear when I gave the answer during the Estimates Committee hearing that the advice from the commissioner was that there had been no accidental discharge. Both the commissioner and the deputy commissioner have assured me that, although it is debatable whether it was an accidental discharge, if they had been aware of the incident, they would have said so at the time and we would have reported it fully in the Parliament. Mr J.N. Hyde interjected. The SPEAKER: Member for Perth!
(3) Will the minister now admit that she misled the Parliament during the Estimates Committee hearings last month when she specifically and repeatedly stated that there had not been any accidental discharges involving the Glock pistols? (4) Is the minister continuing to deny that neither she nor any of the senior police command team that attended the Estimates Committee hearings were aware that a Glock pistol had discharged accidentally? Mrs M.H. ROBERTS replied: (1)-(4) The answer to the first two questions is no. With regard to the third question, I am prepared to put on record what occurred during the Estimates Committee hearings. Quite a number of members were present when the member for Kalgoorlie asked if there had been an accidental discharge of one of the new Glock pistols. I did not know the answer, so I asked the commissioner, who was sitting on my right, and the deputy commissioner, who was sitting on my left - Mr Matthews and Mr Brennan. On Mr Brennan’s left was also one of the assistant commissioners, Dr O’Callaghan, and three other senior police personnel. None of those people was aware that there had been any incident involving an accidental discharge. The member for Kalgoorlie has suggested that I should know more about the day-to-day operations of the Police Service than either the Commissioner of Police or the Deputy Commissioner. Mr M.J. Birney: You have no idea what is happening. You misled Parliament. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: Mr Speaker, I would like the opportunity to explain, which I think I deserve. I was informed by the commissioner yesterday - and he was made aware of the incident for the first time yesterday, when he was advised by Deputy Commissioner Brennan after he had been approached by The West Australian newspaper - Mr R.F. Johnson: Doesn’t that concern you? The SPEAKER: Members. Mr M.J. Birney: You’re the minister! The SPEAKER: I call the member for Kalgoorlie to order. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: Mr Speaker, this is a serious issue and it would be helpful if the member for Kalgoorlie did not try to take over the member for Nedlands’ role of continuing to disrupt question time. This is a serious issue. It is a matter that I do want to explain fully on the record. The fact of the matter is that an incident did occur on 18 April this year. At that time the commissioner was on leave and Mr Bruce Brennan, the deputy commissioner, was acting in that position. I am given to understand that Mr Brennan was not aware of the incident. It is debatable whether this could be called an accidental discharge at all - Mr M.J. Birney interjected. Mr J.N. Hyde: A bloke pulled the trigger! It didn’t go off by itself. The SPEAKER: Members! I call the member for Perth to order for the second time. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: Mr Speaker, I want to explain exactly what the incident involved and then people can come to their own conclusions about it. On 18 April at our central station an officer took from a secure area his allocated Glock pistol. He then took a magazine and loaded that into the pistol and put that in his holster. He got another magazine and loaded it in the appropriate place on his belt. Mr M.J. Birney: He can only load one at a time. The SPEAKER: Member for Kalgoorlie! Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: The member is the one who does not know what he is talking about. I have now read the incident report that has been provided to me, and I am providing the member with the facts. Mr M.J. Birney interjected. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: The member has not even listened. I have said that the officer loaded the first magazine into the pistol and he loaded the other magazine into his belt. This was essentially the explanation given to me by the Commissioner of Police late yesterday afternoon, and it has been confirmed by an incident briefing note that I have been given. The officer then did something really stupid. He decided to not only depress the trigger but also fully ratchet the appropriate lever on the gun to put it into a firing position, and then he fully depressed the trigger. In those circumstances if the Glock pistol had not fired, we would be asking for our money back. The fact of the matter is that human error cannot be eliminated. Similar instances of human error have occurred with all the other guns. However, we do know that all the professional evidence points to the fact that this gun has more safety mechanisms than any of the alternative guns. It is used by over 600 policing agencies in over 100 countries throughout the world, and it has a reputation as being one of the safest guns available to police services. I do not know whether somebody from one of the other manufacturers is paying the member for Kalgoorlie or what his particular issue is - Withdrawal of Remark Mr C.J. BARNETT: The minister has quite clearly impugned the reputation of the member for Kalgoorlie by implying that he was in receipt of financial benefit for asking questions and pursuing an issue. That is clearly impugning him, Mr Speaker, and I require and request that you call her to order. The SPEAKER: I was listening to what the Minister for Police said. She said that she did not know whether the member was in the employ of somebody. However, it is sailing too close to the wind and I ask the minister to withdraw that comment. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: I apologise, but I am at a loss to understand - Several members interjected. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: I have withdrawn it. I am quite happy to apologise and withdraw if the member is telling me that that is not the case. I fully apologise and withdraw. Questions without Notice Resumed Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: There is a lot of rabble opposite, Mr Speaker. Point of Order Mr R.F. JOHNSON: As I understand it, Mr Speaker, you required the minister to withdraw the comment. Dr G.I. Gallop: She did. Mr R.F. JOHNSON: She has not withdrawn without qualification. Dr G.I. Gallop: She has apologised and withdrawn. Mr R.F. JOHNSON: No, she has not; not without qualification. I draw that to your attention, Mr Speaker. The SPEAKER: The minister has withdrawn and apologised. Questions without Notice Resumed Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: That is quite certainly the case. What puzzles me is why the member for Kalgoorlie has become so obsessed about this issue. The incident that has been referred to is a matter of a gun performing as it is designed to perform. There is no issue with the gun arising out of the incident. There is an issue with the officer. It seems quite unreasonable for members opposite to suggest to me that I should know what the commissioner and the deputy commissioner did not know and what had not been reported to them. I made it quite clear when I gave the answer during the Estimates Committee hearing that the advice from the commissioner was that there had been no accidental discharge. Both the commissioner and the deputy commissioner have assured me that, although it is debatable whether it was an accidental discharge, if they had been aware of the incident, they would have said so at the time and we would have reported it fully in the Parliament. Mr J.N. Hyde interjected. The SPEAKER: Member for Perth!
(4) Is the minister continuing to deny that neither she nor any of the senior police command team that attended the Estimates Committee hearings were aware that a Glock pistol had discharged accidentally? Mrs M.H. ROBERTS replied: (1)-(4) The answer to the first two questions is no. With regard to the third question, I am prepared to put on record what occurred during the Estimates Committee hearings. Quite a number of members were present when the member for Kalgoorlie asked if there had been an accidental discharge of one of the new Glock pistols. I did not know the answer, so I asked the commissioner, who was sitting on my right, and the deputy commissioner, who was sitting on my left - Mr Matthews and Mr Brennan. On Mr Brennan’s left was also one of the assistant commissioners, Dr O’Callaghan, and three other senior police personnel. None of those people was aware that there had been any incident involving an accidental discharge. The member for Kalgoorlie has suggested that I should know more about the day-to-day operations of the Police Service than either the Commissioner of Police or the Deputy Commissioner. Mr M.J. Birney: You have no idea what is happening. You misled Parliament. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: Mr Speaker, I would like the opportunity to explain, which I think I deserve. I was informed by the commissioner yesterday - and he was made aware of the incident for the first time yesterday, when he was advised by Deputy Commissioner Brennan after he had been approached by The West Australian newspaper - Mr R.F. Johnson: Doesn’t that concern you? The SPEAKER: Members. Mr M.J. Birney: You’re the minister! The SPEAKER: I call the member for Kalgoorlie to order. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: Mr Speaker, this is a serious issue and it would be helpful if the member for Kalgoorlie did not try to take over the member for Nedlands’ role of continuing to disrupt question time. This is a serious issue. It is a matter that I do want to explain fully on the record. The fact of the matter is that an incident did occur on 18 April this year. At that time the commissioner was on leave and Mr Bruce Brennan, the deputy commissioner, was acting in that position. I am given to understand that Mr Brennan was not aware of the incident. It is debatable whether this could be called an accidental discharge at all - Mr M.J. Birney interjected. Mr J.N. Hyde: A bloke pulled the trigger! It didn’t go off by itself. The SPEAKER: Members! I call the member for Perth to order for the second time. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: Mr Speaker, I want to explain exactly what the incident involved and then people can come to their own conclusions about it. On 18 April at our central station an officer took from a secure area his allocated Glock pistol. He then took a magazine and loaded that into the pistol and put that in his holster. He got another magazine and loaded it in the appropriate place on his belt. Mr M.J. Birney: He can only load one at a time. The SPEAKER: Member for Kalgoorlie! Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: The member is the one who does not know what he is talking about. I have now read the incident report that has been provided to me, and I am providing the member with the facts. Mr M.J. Birney interjected. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: The member has not even listened. I have said that the officer loaded the first magazine into the pistol and he loaded the other magazine into his belt. This was essentially the explanation given to me by the Commissioner of Police late yesterday afternoon, and it has been confirmed by an incident briefing note that I have been given. The officer then did something really stupid. He decided to not only depress the trigger but also fully ratchet the appropriate lever on the gun to put it into a firing position, and then he fully depressed the trigger. In those circumstances if the Glock pistol had not fired, we would be asking for our money back. The fact of the matter is that human error cannot be eliminated. Similar instances of human error have occurred with all the other guns. However, we do know that all the professional evidence points to the fact that this gun has more safety mechanisms than any of the alternative guns. It is used by over 600 policing agencies in over 100 countries throughout the world, and it has a reputation as being one of the safest guns available to police services. I do not know whether somebody from one of the other manufacturers is paying the member for Kalgoorlie or what his particular issue is - Withdrawal of Remark Mr C.J. BARNETT: The minister has quite clearly impugned the reputation of the member for Kalgoorlie by implying that he was in receipt of financial benefit for asking questions and pursuing an issue. That is clearly impugning him, Mr Speaker, and I require and request that you call her to order. The SPEAKER: I was listening to what the Minister for Police said. She said that she did not know whether the member was in the employ of somebody. However, it is sailing too close to the wind and I ask the minister to withdraw that comment. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: I apologise, but I am at a loss to understand - Several members interjected. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: I have withdrawn it. I am quite happy to apologise and withdraw if the member is telling me that that is not the case. I fully apologise and withdraw. Questions without Notice Resumed Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: There is a lot of rabble opposite, Mr Speaker. Point of Order Mr R.F. JOHNSON: As I understand it, Mr Speaker, you required the minister to withdraw the comment. Dr G.I. Gallop: She did. Mr R.F. JOHNSON: She has not withdrawn without qualification. Dr G.I. Gallop: She has apologised and withdrawn. Mr R.F. JOHNSON: No, she has not; not without qualification. I draw that to your attention, Mr Speaker. The SPEAKER: The minister has withdrawn and apologised. Questions without Notice Resumed Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: That is quite certainly the case. What puzzles me is why the member for Kalgoorlie has become so obsessed about this issue. The incident that has been referred to is a matter of a gun performing as it is designed to perform. There is no issue with the gun arising out of the incident. There is an issue with the officer. It seems quite unreasonable for members opposite to suggest to me that I should know what the commissioner and the deputy commissioner did not know and what had not been reported to them. I made it quite clear when I gave the answer during the Estimates Committee hearing that the advice from the commissioner was that there had been no accidental discharge. Both the commissioner and the deputy commissioner have assured me that, although it is debatable whether it was an accidental discharge, if they had been aware of the incident, they would have said so at the time and we would have reported it fully in the Parliament. Mr J.N. Hyde interjected. The SPEAKER: Member for Perth!
Mrs M.H. ROBERTS replied: (1)-(4) The answer to the first two questions is no. With regard to the third question, I am prepared to put on record what occurred during the Estimates Committee hearings. Quite a number of members were present when the member for Kalgoorlie asked if there had been an accidental discharge of one of the new Glock pistols. I did not know the answer, so I asked the commissioner, who was sitting on my right, and the deputy commissioner, who was sitting on my left - Mr Matthews and Mr Brennan. On Mr Brennan’s left was also one of the assistant commissioners, Dr O’Callaghan, and three other senior police personnel. None of those people was aware that there had been any incident involving an accidental discharge. The member for Kalgoorlie has suggested that I should know more about the day-to-day operations of the Police Service than either the Commissioner of Police or the Deputy Commissioner. Mr M.J. Birney: You have no idea what is happening. You misled Parliament. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: Mr Speaker, I would like the opportunity to explain, which I think I deserve. I was informed by the commissioner yesterday - and he was made aware of the incident for the first time yesterday, when he was advised by Deputy Commissioner Brennan after he had been approached by The West Australian newspaper - Mr R.F. Johnson: Doesn’t that concern you? The SPEAKER: Members. Mr M.J. Birney: You’re the minister! The SPEAKER: I call the member for Kalgoorlie to order. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: Mr Speaker, this is a serious issue and it would be helpful if the member for Kalgoorlie did not try to take over the member for Nedlands’ role of continuing to disrupt question time. This is a serious issue. It is a matter that I do want to explain fully on the record. The fact of the matter is that an incident did occur on 18 April this year. At that time the commissioner was on leave and Mr Bruce Brennan, the deputy commissioner, was acting in that position. I am given to understand that Mr Brennan was not aware of the incident. It is debatable whether this could be called an accidental discharge at all - Mr M.J. Birney interjected. Mr J.N. Hyde: A bloke pulled the trigger! It didn’t go off by itself. The SPEAKER: Members! I call the member for Perth to order for the second time. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: Mr Speaker, I want to explain exactly what the incident involved and then people can come to their own conclusions about it. On 18 April at our central station an officer took from a secure area his allocated Glock pistol. He then took a magazine and loaded that into the pistol and put that in his holster. He got another magazine and loaded it in the appropriate place on his belt. Mr M.J. Birney: He can only load one at a time. The SPEAKER: Member for Kalgoorlie! Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: The member is the one who does not know what he is talking about. I have now read the incident report that has been provided to me, and I am providing the member with the facts. Mr M.J. Birney interjected. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: The member has not even listened. I have said that the officer loaded the first magazine into the pistol and he loaded the other magazine into his belt. This was essentially the explanation given to me by the Commissioner of Police late yesterday afternoon, and it has been confirmed by an incident briefing note that I have been given. The officer then did something really stupid. He decided to not only depress the trigger but also fully ratchet the appropriate lever on the gun to put it into a firing position, and then he fully depressed the trigger. In those circumstances if the Glock pistol had not fired, we would be asking for our money back. The fact of the matter is that human error cannot be eliminated. Similar instances of human error have occurred with all the other guns. However, we do know that all the professional evidence points to the fact that this gun has more safety mechanisms than any of the alternative guns. It is used by over 600 policing agencies in over 100 countries throughout the world, and it has a reputation as being one of the safest guns available to police services. I do not know whether somebody from one of the other manufacturers is paying the member for Kalgoorlie or what his particular issue is - Withdrawal of Remark Mr C.J. BARNETT: The minister has quite clearly impugned the reputation of the member for Kalgoorlie by implying that he was in receipt of financial benefit for asking questions and pursuing an issue. That is clearly impugning him, Mr Speaker, and I require and request that you call her to order. The SPEAKER: I was listening to what the Minister for Police said. She said that she did not know whether the member was in the employ of somebody. However, it is sailing too close to the wind and I ask the minister to withdraw that comment. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: I apologise, but I am at a loss to understand - Several members interjected. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: I have withdrawn it. I am quite happy to apologise and withdraw if the member is telling me that that is not the case. I fully apologise and withdraw. Questions without Notice Resumed Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: There is a lot of rabble opposite, Mr Speaker. Point of Order Mr R.F. JOHNSON: As I understand it, Mr Speaker, you required the minister to withdraw the comment. Dr G.I. Gallop: She did. Mr R.F. JOHNSON: She has not withdrawn without qualification. Dr G.I. Gallop: She has apologised and withdrawn. Mr R.F. JOHNSON: No, she has not; not without qualification. I draw that to your attention, Mr Speaker. The SPEAKER: The minister has withdrawn and apologised. Questions without Notice Resumed Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: That is quite certainly the case. What puzzles me is why the member for Kalgoorlie has become so obsessed about this issue. The incident that has been referred to is a matter of a gun performing as it is designed to perform. There is no issue with the gun arising out of the incident. There is an issue with the officer. It seems quite unreasonable for members opposite to suggest to me that I should know what the commissioner and the deputy commissioner did not know and what had not been reported to them. I made it quite clear when I gave the answer during the Estimates Committee hearing that the advice from the commissioner was that there had been no accidental discharge. Both the commissioner and the deputy commissioner have assured me that, although it is debatable whether it was an accidental discharge, if they had been aware of the incident, they would have said so at the time and we would have reported it fully in the Parliament. Mr J.N. Hyde interjected. The SPEAKER: Member for Perth!
(1)-(4) The answer to the first two questions is no. With regard to the third question, I am prepared to put on record what occurred during the Estimates Committee hearings. Quite a number of members were present when the member for Kalgoorlie asked if there had been an accidental discharge of one of the new Glock pistols. I did not know the answer, so I asked the commissioner, who was sitting on my right, and the deputy commissioner, who was sitting on my left - Mr Matthews and Mr Brennan. On Mr Brennan’s left was also one of the assistant commissioners, Dr O’Callaghan, and three other senior police personnel. None of those people was aware that there had been any incident involving an accidental discharge. The member for Kalgoorlie has suggested that I should know more about the day-to-day operations of the Police Service than either the Commissioner of Police or the Deputy Commissioner. Mr M.J. Birney: You have no idea what is happening. You misled Parliament. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: Mr Speaker, I would like the opportunity to explain, which I think I deserve. I was informed by the commissioner yesterday - and he was made aware of the incident for the first time yesterday, when he was advised by Deputy Commissioner Brennan after he had been approached by The West Australian newspaper - Mr R.F. Johnson: Doesn’t that concern you? The SPEAKER: Members. Mr M.J. Birney: You’re the minister! The SPEAKER: I call the member for Kalgoorlie to order. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: Mr Speaker, this is a serious issue and it would be helpful if the member for Kalgoorlie did not try to take over the member for Nedlands’ role of continuing to disrupt question time. This is a serious issue. It is a matter that I do want to explain fully on the record. The fact of the matter is that an incident did occur on 18 April this year. At that time the commissioner was on leave and Mr Bruce Brennan, the deputy commissioner, was acting in that position. I am given to understand that Mr Brennan was not aware of the incident. It is debatable whether this could be called an accidental discharge at all - Mr M.J. Birney interjected. Mr J.N. Hyde: A bloke pulled the trigger! It didn’t go off by itself. The SPEAKER: Members! I call the member for Perth to order for the second time. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: Mr Speaker, I want to explain exactly what the incident involved and then people can come to their own conclusions about it. On 18 April at our central station an officer took from a secure area his allocated Glock pistol. He then took a magazine and loaded that into the pistol and put that in his holster. He got another magazine and loaded it in the appropriate place on his belt. Mr M.J. Birney: He can only load one at a time. The SPEAKER: Member for Kalgoorlie! Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: The member is the one who does not know what he is talking about. I have now read the incident report that has been provided to me, and I am providing the member with the facts. Mr M.J. Birney interjected. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: The member has not even listened. I have said that the officer loaded the first magazine into the pistol and he loaded the other magazine into his belt. This was essentially the explanation given to me by the Commissioner of Police late yesterday afternoon, and it has been confirmed by an incident briefing note that I have been given. The officer then did something really stupid. He decided to not only depress the trigger but also fully ratchet the appropriate lever on the gun to put it into a firing position, and then he fully depressed the trigger. In those circumstances if the Glock pistol had not fired, we would be asking for our money back. The fact of the matter is that human error cannot be eliminated. Similar instances of human error have occurred with all the other guns. However, we do know that all the professional evidence points to the fact that this gun has more safety mechanisms than any of the alternative guns. It is used by over 600 policing agencies in over 100 countries throughout the world, and it has a reputation as being one of the safest guns available to police services. I do not know whether somebody from one of the other manufacturers is paying the member for Kalgoorlie or what his particular issue is - Withdrawal of Remark Mr C.J. BARNETT: The minister has quite clearly impugned the reputation of the member for Kalgoorlie by implying that he was in receipt of financial benefit for asking questions and pursuing an issue. That is clearly impugning him, Mr Speaker, and I require and request that you call her to order. The SPEAKER: I was listening to what the Minister for Police said. She said that she did not know whether the member was in the employ of somebody. However, it is sailing too close to the wind and I ask the minister to withdraw that comment. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: I apologise, but I am at a loss to understand - Several members interjected. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: I have withdrawn it. I am quite happy to apologise and withdraw if the member is telling me that that is not the case. I fully apologise and withdraw. Questions without Notice Resumed Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: There is a lot of rabble opposite, Mr Speaker. Point of Order Mr R.F. JOHNSON: As I understand it, Mr Speaker, you required the minister to withdraw the comment. Dr G.I. Gallop: She did. Mr R.F. JOHNSON: She has not withdrawn without qualification. Dr G.I. Gallop: She has apologised and withdrawn. Mr R.F. JOHNSON: No, she has not; not without qualification. I draw that to your attention, Mr Speaker. The SPEAKER: The minister has withdrawn and apologised. Questions without Notice Resumed Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: That is quite certainly the case. What puzzles me is why the member for Kalgoorlie has become so obsessed about this issue. The incident that has been referred to is a matter of a gun performing as it is designed to perform. There is no issue with the gun arising out of the incident. There is an issue with the officer. It seems quite unreasonable for members opposite to suggest to me that I should know what the commissioner and the deputy commissioner did not know and what had not been reported to them. I made it quite clear when I gave the answer during the Estimates Committee hearing that the advice from the commissioner was that there had been no accidental discharge. Both the commissioner and the deputy commissioner have assured me that, although it is debatable whether it was an accidental discharge, if they had been aware of the incident, they would have said so at the time and we would have reported it fully in the Parliament. Mr J.N. Hyde interjected. The SPEAKER: Member for Perth!
Mr M.J. Birney: You have no idea what is happening. You misled Parliament. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: Mr Speaker, I would like the opportunity to explain, which I think I deserve. I was informed by the commissioner yesterday - and he was made aware of the incident for the first time yesterday, when he was advised by Deputy Commissioner Brennan after he had been approached by The West Australian newspaper - Mr R.F. Johnson: Doesn’t that concern you? The SPEAKER: Members. Mr M.J. Birney: You’re the minister! The SPEAKER: I call the member for Kalgoorlie to order. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: Mr Speaker, this is a serious issue and it would be helpful if the member for Kalgoorlie did not try to take over the member for Nedlands’ role of continuing to disrupt question time. This is a serious issue. It is a matter that I do want to explain fully on the record. The fact of the matter is that an incident did occur on 18 April this year. At that time the commissioner was on leave and Mr Bruce Brennan, the deputy commissioner, was acting in that position. I am given to understand that Mr Brennan was not aware of the incident. It is debatable whether this could be called an accidental discharge at all - Mr M.J. Birney interjected. Mr J.N. Hyde: A bloke pulled the trigger! It didn’t go off by itself. The SPEAKER: Members! I call the member for Perth to order for the second time. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: Mr Speaker, I want to explain exactly what the incident involved and then people can come to their own conclusions about it. On 18 April at our central station an officer took from a secure area his allocated Glock pistol. He then took a magazine and loaded that into the pistol and put that in his holster. He got another magazine and loaded it in the appropriate place on his belt. Mr M.J. Birney: He can only load one at a time. The SPEAKER: Member for Kalgoorlie! Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: The member is the one who does not know what he is talking about. I have now read the incident report that has been provided to me, and I am providing the member with the facts. Mr M.J. Birney interjected. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: The member has not even listened. I have said that the officer loaded the first magazine into the pistol and he loaded the other magazine into his belt. This was essentially the explanation given to me by the Commissioner of Police late yesterday afternoon, and it has been confirmed by an incident briefing note that I have been given. The officer then did something really stupid. He decided to not only depress the trigger but also fully ratchet the appropriate lever on the gun to put it into a firing position, and then he fully depressed the trigger. In those circumstances if the Glock pistol had not fired, we would be asking for our money back. The fact of the matter is that human error cannot be eliminated. Similar instances of human error have occurred with all the other guns. However, we do know that all the professional evidence points to the fact that this gun has more safety mechanisms than any of the alternative guns. It is used by over 600 policing agencies in over 100 countries throughout the world, and it has a reputation as being one of the safest guns available to police services. I do not know whether somebody from one of the other manufacturers is paying the member for Kalgoorlie or what his particular issue is - Withdrawal of Remark Mr C.J. BARNETT: The minister has quite clearly impugned the reputation of the member for Kalgoorlie by implying that he was in receipt of financial benefit for asking questions and pursuing an issue. That is clearly impugning him, Mr Speaker, and I require and request that you call her to order. The SPEAKER: I was listening to what the Minister for Police said. She said that she did not know whether the member was in the employ of somebody. However, it is sailing too close to the wind and I ask the minister to withdraw that comment. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: I apologise, but I am at a loss to understand - Several members interjected. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: I have withdrawn it. I am quite happy to apologise and withdraw if the member is telling me that that is not the case. I fully apologise and withdraw. Questions without Notice Resumed Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: There is a lot of rabble opposite, Mr Speaker. Point of Order Mr R.F. JOHNSON: As I understand it, Mr Speaker, you required the minister to withdraw the comment. Dr G.I. Gallop: She did. Mr R.F. JOHNSON: She has not withdrawn without qualification. Dr G.I. Gallop: She has apologised and withdrawn. Mr R.F. JOHNSON: No, she has not; not without qualification. I draw that to your attention, Mr Speaker. The SPEAKER: The minister has withdrawn and apologised. Questions without Notice Resumed Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: That is quite certainly the case. What puzzles me is why the member for Kalgoorlie has become so obsessed about this issue. The incident that has been referred to is a matter of a gun performing as it is designed to perform. There is no issue with the gun arising out of the incident. There is an issue with the officer. It seems quite unreasonable for members opposite to suggest to me that I should know what the commissioner and the deputy commissioner did not know and what had not been reported to them. I made it quite clear when I gave the answer during the Estimates Committee hearing that the advice from the commissioner was that there had been no accidental discharge. Both the commissioner and the deputy commissioner have assured me that, although it is debatable whether it was an accidental discharge, if they had been aware of the incident, they would have said so at the time and we would have reported it fully in the Parliament. Mr J.N. Hyde interjected. The SPEAKER: Member for Perth!
Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: Mr Speaker, I would like the opportunity to explain, which I think I deserve. I was informed by the commissioner yesterday - and he was made aware of the incident for the first time yesterday, when he was advised by Deputy Commissioner Brennan after he had been approached by The West Australian newspaper - Mr R.F. Johnson: Doesn’t that concern you? The SPEAKER: Members. Mr M.J. Birney: You’re the minister! The SPEAKER: I call the member for Kalgoorlie to order. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: Mr Speaker, this is a serious issue and it would be helpful if the member for Kalgoorlie did not try to take over the member for Nedlands’ role of continuing to disrupt question time. This is a serious issue. It is a matter that I do want to explain fully on the record. The fact of the matter is that an incident did occur on 18 April this year. At that time the commissioner was on leave and Mr Bruce Brennan, the deputy commissioner, was acting in that position. I am given to understand that Mr Brennan was not aware of the incident. It is debatable whether this could be called an accidental discharge at all - Mr M.J. Birney interjected. Mr J.N. Hyde: A bloke pulled the trigger! It didn’t go off by itself. The SPEAKER: Members! I call the member for Perth to order for the second time. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: Mr Speaker, I want to explain exactly what the incident involved and then people can come to their own conclusions about it. On 18 April at our central station an officer took from a secure area his allocated Glock pistol. He then took a magazine and loaded that into the pistol and put that in his holster. He got another magazine and loaded it in the appropriate place on his belt. Mr M.J. Birney: He can only load one at a time. The SPEAKER: Member for Kalgoorlie! Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: The member is the one who does not know what he is talking about. I have now read the incident report that has been provided to me, and I am providing the member with the facts. Mr M.J. Birney interjected. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: The member has not even listened. I have said that the officer loaded the first magazine into the pistol and he loaded the other magazine into his belt. This was essentially the explanation given to me by the Commissioner of Police late yesterday afternoon, and it has been confirmed by an incident briefing note that I have been given. The officer then did something really stupid. He decided to not only depress the trigger but also fully ratchet the appropriate lever on the gun to put it into a firing position, and then he fully depressed the trigger. In those circumstances if the Glock pistol had not fired, we would be asking for our money back. The fact of the matter is that human error cannot be eliminated. Similar instances of human error have occurred with all the other guns. However, we do know that all the professional evidence points to the fact that this gun has more safety mechanisms than any of the alternative guns. It is used by over 600 policing agencies in over 100 countries throughout the world, and it has a reputation as being one of the safest guns available to police services. I do not know whether somebody from one of the other manufacturers is paying the member for Kalgoorlie or what his particular issue is - Withdrawal of Remark Mr C.J. BARNETT: The minister has quite clearly impugned the reputation of the member for Kalgoorlie by implying that he was in receipt of financial benefit for asking questions and pursuing an issue. That is clearly impugning him, Mr Speaker, and I require and request that you call her to order. The SPEAKER: I was listening to what the Minister for Police said. She said that she did not know whether the member was in the employ of somebody. However, it is sailing too close to the wind and I ask the minister to withdraw that comment. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: I apologise, but I am at a loss to understand - Several members interjected. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: I have withdrawn it. I am quite happy to apologise and withdraw if the member is telling me that that is not the case. I fully apologise and withdraw. Questions without Notice Resumed Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: There is a lot of rabble opposite, Mr Speaker. Point of Order Mr R.F. JOHNSON: As I understand it, Mr Speaker, you required the minister to withdraw the comment. Dr G.I. Gallop: She did. Mr R.F. JOHNSON: She has not withdrawn without qualification. Dr G.I. Gallop: She has apologised and withdrawn. Mr R.F. JOHNSON: No, she has not; not without qualification. I draw that to your attention, Mr Speaker. The SPEAKER: The minister has withdrawn and apologised. Questions without Notice Resumed Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: That is quite certainly the case. What puzzles me is why the member for Kalgoorlie has become so obsessed about this issue. The incident that has been referred to is a matter of a gun performing as it is designed to perform. There is no issue with the gun arising out of the incident. There is an issue with the officer. It seems quite unreasonable for members opposite to suggest to me that I should know what the commissioner and the deputy commissioner did not know and what had not been reported to them. I made it quite clear when I gave the answer during the Estimates Committee hearing that the advice from the commissioner was that there had been no accidental discharge. Both the commissioner and the deputy commissioner have assured me that, although it is debatable whether it was an accidental discharge, if they had been aware of the incident, they would have said so at the time and we would have reported it fully in the Parliament. Mr J.N. Hyde interjected. The SPEAKER: Member for Perth!
Mr R.F. Johnson: Doesn’t that concern you? The SPEAKER: Members. Mr M.J. Birney: You’re the minister! The SPEAKER: I call the member for Kalgoorlie to order. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: Mr Speaker, this is a serious issue and it would be helpful if the member for Kalgoorlie did not try to take over the member for Nedlands’ role of continuing to disrupt question time. This is a serious issue. It is a matter that I do want to explain fully on the record. The fact of the matter is that an incident did occur on 18 April this year. At that time the commissioner was on leave and Mr Bruce Brennan, the deputy commissioner, was acting in that position. I am given to understand that Mr Brennan was not aware of the incident. It is debatable whether this could be called an accidental discharge at all - Mr M.J. Birney interjected. Mr J.N. Hyde: A bloke pulled the trigger! It didn’t go off by itself. The SPEAKER: Members! I call the member for Perth to order for the second time. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: Mr Speaker, I want to explain exactly what the incident involved and then people can come to their own conclusions about it. On 18 April at our central station an officer took from a secure area his allocated Glock pistol. He then took a magazine and loaded that into the pistol and put that in his holster. He got another magazine and loaded it in the appropriate place on his belt. Mr M.J. Birney: He can only load one at a time. The SPEAKER: Member for Kalgoorlie! Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: The member is the one who does not know what he is talking about. I have now read the incident report that has been provided to me, and I am providing the member with the facts. Mr M.J. Birney interjected. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: The member has not even listened. I have said that the officer loaded the first magazine into the pistol and he loaded the other magazine into his belt. This was essentially the explanation given to me by the Commissioner of Police late yesterday afternoon, and it has been confirmed by an incident briefing note that I have been given. The officer then did something really stupid. He decided to not only depress the trigger but also fully ratchet the appropriate lever on the gun to put it into a firing position, and then he fully depressed the trigger. In those circumstances if the Glock pistol had not fired, we would be asking for our money back. The fact of the matter is that human error cannot be eliminated. Similar instances of human error have occurred with all the other guns. However, we do know that all the professional evidence points to the fact that this gun has more safety mechanisms than any of the alternative guns. It is used by over 600 policing agencies in over 100 countries throughout the world, and it has a reputation as being one of the safest guns available to police services. I do not know whether somebody from one of the other manufacturers is paying the member for Kalgoorlie or what his particular issue is - Withdrawal of Remark Mr C.J. BARNETT: The minister has quite clearly impugned the reputation of the member for Kalgoorlie by implying that he was in receipt of financial benefit for asking questions and pursuing an issue. That is clearly impugning him, Mr Speaker, and I require and request that you call her to order. The SPEAKER: I was listening to what the Minister for Police said. She said that she did not know whether the member was in the employ of somebody. However, it is sailing too close to the wind and I ask the minister to withdraw that comment. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: I apologise, but I am at a loss to understand - Several members interjected. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: I have withdrawn it. I am quite happy to apologise and withdraw if the member is telling me that that is not the case. I fully apologise and withdraw. Questions without Notice Resumed Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: There is a lot of rabble opposite, Mr Speaker. Point of Order Mr R.F. JOHNSON: As I understand it, Mr Speaker, you required the minister to withdraw the comment. Dr G.I. Gallop: She did. Mr R.F. JOHNSON: She has not withdrawn without qualification. Dr G.I. Gallop: She has apologised and withdrawn. Mr R.F. JOHNSON: No, she has not; not without qualification. I draw that to your attention, Mr Speaker. The SPEAKER: The minister has withdrawn and apologised. Questions without Notice Resumed Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: That is quite certainly the case. What puzzles me is why the member for Kalgoorlie has become so obsessed about this issue. The incident that has been referred to is a matter of a gun performing as it is designed to perform. There is no issue with the gun arising out of the incident. There is an issue with the officer. It seems quite unreasonable for members opposite to suggest to me that I should know what the commissioner and the deputy commissioner did not know and what had not been reported to them. I made it quite clear when I gave the answer during the Estimates Committee hearing that the advice from the commissioner was that there had been no accidental discharge. Both the commissioner and the deputy commissioner have assured me that, although it is debatable whether it was an accidental discharge, if they had been aware of the incident, they would have said so at the time and we would have reported it fully in the Parliament. Mr J.N. Hyde interjected. The SPEAKER: Member for Perth!
The SPEAKER: Members. Mr M.J. Birney: You’re the minister! The SPEAKER: I call the member for Kalgoorlie to order. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: Mr Speaker, this is a serious issue and it would be helpful if the member for Kalgoorlie did not try to take over the member for Nedlands’ role of continuing to disrupt question time. This is a serious issue. It is a matter that I do want to explain fully on the record. The fact of the matter is that an incident did occur on 18 April this year. At that time the commissioner was on leave and Mr Bruce Brennan, the deputy commissioner, was acting in that position. I am given to understand that Mr Brennan was not aware of the incident. It is debatable whether this could be called an accidental discharge at all - Mr M.J. Birney interjected. Mr J.N. Hyde: A bloke pulled the trigger! It didn’t go off by itself. The SPEAKER: Members! I call the member for Perth to order for the second time. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: Mr Speaker, I want to explain exactly what the incident involved and then people can come to their own conclusions about it. On 18 April at our central station an officer took from a secure area his allocated Glock pistol. He then took a magazine and loaded that into the pistol and put that in his holster. He got another magazine and loaded it in the appropriate place on his belt. Mr M.J. Birney: He can only load one at a time. The SPEAKER: Member for Kalgoorlie! Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: The member is the one who does not know what he is talking about. I have now read the incident report that has been provided to me, and I am providing the member with the facts. Mr M.J. Birney interjected. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: The member has not even listened. I have said that the officer loaded the first magazine into the pistol and he loaded the other magazine into his belt. This was essentially the explanation given to me by the Commissioner of Police late yesterday afternoon, and it has been confirmed by an incident briefing note that I have been given. The officer then did something really stupid. He decided to not only depress the trigger but also fully ratchet the appropriate lever on the gun to put it into a firing position, and then he fully depressed the trigger. In those circumstances if the Glock pistol had not fired, we would be asking for our money back. The fact of the matter is that human error cannot be eliminated. Similar instances of human error have occurred with all the other guns. However, we do know that all the professional evidence points to the fact that this gun has more safety mechanisms than any of the alternative guns. It is used by over 600 policing agencies in over 100 countries throughout the world, and it has a reputation as being one of the safest guns available to police services. I do not know whether somebody from one of the other manufacturers is paying the member for Kalgoorlie or what his particular issue is - Withdrawal of Remark Mr C.J. BARNETT: The minister has quite clearly impugned the reputation of the member for Kalgoorlie by implying that he was in receipt of financial benefit for asking questions and pursuing an issue. That is clearly impugning him, Mr Speaker, and I require and request that you call her to order. The SPEAKER: I was listening to what the Minister for Police said. She said that she did not know whether the member was in the employ of somebody. However, it is sailing too close to the wind and I ask the minister to withdraw that comment. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: I apologise, but I am at a loss to understand - Several members interjected. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: I have withdrawn it. I am quite happy to apologise and withdraw if the member is telling me that that is not the case. I fully apologise and withdraw. Questions without Notice Resumed Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: There is a lot of rabble opposite, Mr Speaker. Point of Order Mr R.F. JOHNSON: As I understand it, Mr Speaker, you required the minister to withdraw the comment. Dr G.I. Gallop: She did. Mr R.F. JOHNSON: She has not withdrawn without qualification. Dr G.I. Gallop: She has apologised and withdrawn. Mr R.F. JOHNSON: No, she has not; not without qualification. I draw that to your attention, Mr Speaker. The SPEAKER: The minister has withdrawn and apologised. Questions without Notice Resumed Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: That is quite certainly the case. What puzzles me is why the member for Kalgoorlie has become so obsessed about this issue. The incident that has been referred to is a matter of a gun performing as it is designed to perform. There is no issue with the gun arising out of the incident. There is an issue with the officer. It seems quite unreasonable for members opposite to suggest to me that I should know what the commissioner and the deputy commissioner did not know and what had not been reported to them. I made it quite clear when I gave the answer during the Estimates Committee hearing that the advice from the commissioner was that there had been no accidental discharge. Both the commissioner and the deputy commissioner have assured me that, although it is debatable whether it was an accidental discharge, if they had been aware of the incident, they would have said so at the time and we would have reported it fully in the Parliament. Mr J.N. Hyde interjected. The SPEAKER: Member for Perth!
Mr M.J. Birney: You’re the minister! The SPEAKER: I call the member for Kalgoorlie to order. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: Mr Speaker, this is a serious issue and it would be helpful if the member for Kalgoorlie did not try to take over the member for Nedlands’ role of continuing to disrupt question time. This is a serious issue. It is a matter that I do want to explain fully on the record. The fact of the matter is that an incident did occur on 18 April this year. At that time the commissioner was on leave and Mr Bruce Brennan, the deputy commissioner, was acting in that position. I am given to understand that Mr Brennan was not aware of the incident. It is debatable whether this could be called an accidental discharge at all - Mr M.J. Birney interjected. Mr J.N. Hyde: A bloke pulled the trigger! It didn’t go off by itself. The SPEAKER: Members! I call the member for Perth to order for the second time. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: Mr Speaker, I want to explain exactly what the incident involved and then people can come to their own conclusions about it. On 18 April at our central station an officer took from a secure area his allocated Glock pistol. He then took a magazine and loaded that into the pistol and put that in his holster. He got another magazine and loaded it in the appropriate place on his belt. Mr M.J. Birney: He can only load one at a time. The SPEAKER: Member for Kalgoorlie! Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: The member is the one who does not know what he is talking about. I have now read the incident report that has been provided to me, and I am providing the member with the facts. Mr M.J. Birney interjected. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: The member has not even listened. I have said that the officer loaded the first magazine into the pistol and he loaded the other magazine into his belt. This was essentially the explanation given to me by the Commissioner of Police late yesterday afternoon, and it has been confirmed by an incident briefing note that I have been given. The officer then did something really stupid. He decided to not only depress the trigger but also fully ratchet the appropriate lever on the gun to put it into a firing position, and then he fully depressed the trigger. In those circumstances if the Glock pistol had not fired, we would be asking for our money back. The fact of the matter is that human error cannot be eliminated. Similar instances of human error have occurred with all the other guns. However, we do know that all the professional evidence points to the fact that this gun has more safety mechanisms than any of the alternative guns. It is used by over 600 policing agencies in over 100 countries throughout the world, and it has a reputation as being one of the safest guns available to police services. I do not know whether somebody from one of the other manufacturers is paying the member for Kalgoorlie or what his particular issue is - Withdrawal of Remark Mr C.J. BARNETT: The minister has quite clearly impugned the reputation of the member for Kalgoorlie by implying that he was in receipt of financial benefit for asking questions and pursuing an issue. That is clearly impugning him, Mr Speaker, and I require and request that you call her to order. The SPEAKER: I was listening to what the Minister for Police said. She said that she did not know whether the member was in the employ of somebody. However, it is sailing too close to the wind and I ask the minister to withdraw that comment. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: I apologise, but I am at a loss to understand - Several members interjected. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: I have withdrawn it. I am quite happy to apologise and withdraw if the member is telling me that that is not the case. I fully apologise and withdraw. Questions without Notice Resumed Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: There is a lot of rabble opposite, Mr Speaker. Point of Order Mr R.F. JOHNSON: As I understand it, Mr Speaker, you required the minister to withdraw the comment. Dr G.I. Gallop: She did. Mr R.F. JOHNSON: She has not withdrawn without qualification. Dr G.I. Gallop: She has apologised and withdrawn. Mr R.F. JOHNSON: No, she has not; not without qualification. I draw that to your attention, Mr Speaker. The SPEAKER: The minister has withdrawn and apologised. Questions without Notice Resumed Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: That is quite certainly the case. What puzzles me is why the member for Kalgoorlie has become so obsessed about this issue. The incident that has been referred to is a matter of a gun performing as it is designed to perform. There is no issue with the gun arising out of the incident. There is an issue with the officer. It seems quite unreasonable for members opposite to suggest to me that I should know what the commissioner and the deputy commissioner did not know and what had not been reported to them. I made it quite clear when I gave the answer during the Estimates Committee hearing that the advice from the commissioner was that there had been no accidental discharge. Both the commissioner and the deputy commissioner have assured me that, although it is debatable whether it was an accidental discharge, if they had been aware of the incident, they would have said so at the time and we would have reported it fully in the Parliament. Mr J.N. Hyde interjected. The SPEAKER: Member for Perth!
The SPEAKER: I call the member for Kalgoorlie to order. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: Mr Speaker, this is a serious issue and it would be helpful if the member for Kalgoorlie did not try to take over the member for Nedlands’ role of continuing to disrupt question time. This is a serious issue. It is a matter that I do want to explain fully on the record. The fact of the matter is that an incident did occur on 18 April this year. At that time the commissioner was on leave and Mr Bruce Brennan, the deputy commissioner, was acting in that position. I am given to understand that Mr Brennan was not aware of the incident. It is debatable whether this could be called an accidental discharge at all - Mr M.J. Birney interjected. Mr J.N. Hyde: A bloke pulled the trigger! It didn’t go off by itself. The SPEAKER: Members! I call the member for Perth to order for the second time. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: Mr Speaker, I want to explain exactly what the incident involved and then people can come to their own conclusions about it. On 18 April at our central station an officer took from a secure area his allocated Glock pistol. He then took a magazine and loaded that into the pistol and put that in his holster. He got another magazine and loaded it in the appropriate place on his belt. Mr M.J. Birney: He can only load one at a time. The SPEAKER: Member for Kalgoorlie! Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: The member is the one who does not know what he is talking about. I have now read the incident report that has been provided to me, and I am providing the member with the facts. Mr M.J. Birney interjected. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: The member has not even listened. I have said that the officer loaded the first magazine into the pistol and he loaded the other magazine into his belt. This was essentially the explanation given to me by the Commissioner of Police late yesterday afternoon, and it has been confirmed by an incident briefing note that I have been given. The officer then did something really stupid. He decided to not only depress the trigger but also fully ratchet the appropriate lever on the gun to put it into a firing position, and then he fully depressed the trigger. In those circumstances if the Glock pistol had not fired, we would be asking for our money back. The fact of the matter is that human error cannot be eliminated. Similar instances of human error have occurred with all the other guns. However, we do know that all the professional evidence points to the fact that this gun has more safety mechanisms than any of the alternative guns. It is used by over 600 policing agencies in over 100 countries throughout the world, and it has a reputation as being one of the safest guns available to police services. I do not know whether somebody from one of the other manufacturers is paying the member for Kalgoorlie or what his particular issue is - Withdrawal of Remark Mr C.J. BARNETT: The minister has quite clearly impugned the reputation of the member for Kalgoorlie by implying that he was in receipt of financial benefit for asking questions and pursuing an issue. That is clearly impugning him, Mr Speaker, and I require and request that you call her to order. The SPEAKER: I was listening to what the Minister for Police said. She said that she did not know whether the member was in the employ of somebody. However, it is sailing too close to the wind and I ask the minister to withdraw that comment. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: I apologise, but I am at a loss to understand - Several members interjected. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: I have withdrawn it. I am quite happy to apologise and withdraw if the member is telling me that that is not the case. I fully apologise and withdraw. Questions without Notice Resumed Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: There is a lot of rabble opposite, Mr Speaker. Point of Order Mr R.F. JOHNSON: As I understand it, Mr Speaker, you required the minister to withdraw the comment. Dr G.I. Gallop: She did. Mr R.F. JOHNSON: She has not withdrawn without qualification. Dr G.I. Gallop: She has apologised and withdrawn. Mr R.F. JOHNSON: No, she has not; not without qualification. I draw that to your attention, Mr Speaker. The SPEAKER: The minister has withdrawn and apologised. Questions without Notice Resumed Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: That is quite certainly the case. What puzzles me is why the member for Kalgoorlie has become so obsessed about this issue. The incident that has been referred to is a matter of a gun performing as it is designed to perform. There is no issue with the gun arising out of the incident. There is an issue with the officer. It seems quite unreasonable for members opposite to suggest to me that I should know what the commissioner and the deputy commissioner did not know and what had not been reported to them. I made it quite clear when I gave the answer during the Estimates Committee hearing that the advice from the commissioner was that there had been no accidental discharge. Both the commissioner and the deputy commissioner have assured me that, although it is debatable whether it was an accidental discharge, if they had been aware of the incident, they would have said so at the time and we would have reported it fully in the Parliament. Mr J.N. Hyde interjected. The SPEAKER: Member for Perth!
Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: Mr Speaker, this is a serious issue and it would be helpful if the member for Kalgoorlie did not try to take over the member for Nedlands’ role of continuing to disrupt question time. This is a serious issue. It is a matter that I do want to explain fully on the record. The fact of the matter is that an incident did occur on 18 April this year. At that time the commissioner was on leave and Mr Bruce Brennan, the deputy commissioner, was acting in that position. I am given to understand that Mr Brennan was not aware of the incident. It is debatable whether this could be called an accidental discharge at all - Mr M.J. Birney interjected. Mr J.N. Hyde: A bloke pulled the trigger! It didn’t go off by itself. The SPEAKER: Members! I call the member for Perth to order for the second time. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: Mr Speaker, I want to explain exactly what the incident involved and then people can come to their own conclusions about it. On 18 April at our central station an officer took from a secure area his allocated Glock pistol. He then took a magazine and loaded that into the pistol and put that in his holster. He got another magazine and loaded it in the appropriate place on his belt. Mr M.J. Birney: He can only load one at a time. The SPEAKER: Member for Kalgoorlie! Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: The member is the one who does not know what he is talking about. I have now read the incident report that has been provided to me, and I am providing the member with the facts. Mr M.J. Birney interjected. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: The member has not even listened. I have said that the officer loaded the first magazine into the pistol and he loaded the other magazine into his belt. This was essentially the explanation given to me by the Commissioner of Police late yesterday afternoon, and it has been confirmed by an incident briefing note that I have been given. The officer then did something really stupid. He decided to not only depress the trigger but also fully ratchet the appropriate lever on the gun to put it into a firing position, and then he fully depressed the trigger. In those circumstances if the Glock pistol had not fired, we would be asking for our money back. The fact of the matter is that human error cannot be eliminated. Similar instances of human error have occurred with all the other guns. However, we do know that all the professional evidence points to the fact that this gun has more safety mechanisms than any of the alternative guns. It is used by over 600 policing agencies in over 100 countries throughout the world, and it has a reputation as being one of the safest guns available to police services. I do not know whether somebody from one of the other manufacturers is paying the member for Kalgoorlie or what his particular issue is - Withdrawal of Remark Mr C.J. BARNETT: The minister has quite clearly impugned the reputation of the member for Kalgoorlie by implying that he was in receipt of financial benefit for asking questions and pursuing an issue. That is clearly impugning him, Mr Speaker, and I require and request that you call her to order. The SPEAKER: I was listening to what the Minister for Police said. She said that she did not know whether the member was in the employ of somebody. However, it is sailing too close to the wind and I ask the minister to withdraw that comment. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: I apologise, but I am at a loss to understand - Several members interjected. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: I have withdrawn it. I am quite happy to apologise and withdraw if the member is telling me that that is not the case. I fully apologise and withdraw. Questions without Notice Resumed Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: There is a lot of rabble opposite, Mr Speaker. Point of Order Mr R.F. JOHNSON: As I understand it, Mr Speaker, you required the minister to withdraw the comment. Dr G.I. Gallop: She did. Mr R.F. JOHNSON: She has not withdrawn without qualification. Dr G.I. Gallop: She has apologised and withdrawn. Mr R.F. JOHNSON: No, she has not; not without qualification. I draw that to your attention, Mr Speaker. The SPEAKER: The minister has withdrawn and apologised. Questions without Notice Resumed Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: That is quite certainly the case. What puzzles me is why the member for Kalgoorlie has become so obsessed about this issue. The incident that has been referred to is a matter of a gun performing as it is designed to perform. There is no issue with the gun arising out of the incident. There is an issue with the officer. It seems quite unreasonable for members opposite to suggest to me that I should know what the commissioner and the deputy commissioner did not know and what had not been reported to them. I made it quite clear when I gave the answer during the Estimates Committee hearing that the advice from the commissioner was that there had been no accidental discharge. Both the commissioner and the deputy commissioner have assured me that, although it is debatable whether it was an accidental discharge, if they had been aware of the incident, they would have said so at the time and we would have reported it fully in the Parliament. Mr J.N. Hyde interjected. The SPEAKER: Member for Perth!
It is debatable whether this could be called an accidental discharge at all - Mr M.J. Birney interjected. Mr J.N. Hyde: A bloke pulled the trigger! It didn’t go off by itself. The SPEAKER: Members! I call the member for Perth to order for the second time. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: Mr Speaker, I want to explain exactly what the incident involved and then people can come to their own conclusions about it. On 18 April at our central station an officer took from a secure area his allocated Glock pistol. He then took a magazine and loaded that into the pistol and put that in his holster. He got another magazine and loaded it in the appropriate place on his belt. Mr M.J. Birney: He can only load one at a time. The SPEAKER: Member for Kalgoorlie! Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: The member is the one who does not know what he is talking about. I have now read the incident report that has been provided to me, and I am providing the member with the facts. Mr M.J. Birney interjected. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: The member has not even listened. I have said that the officer loaded the first magazine into the pistol and he loaded the other magazine into his belt. This was essentially the explanation given to me by the Commissioner of Police late yesterday afternoon, and it has been confirmed by an incident briefing note that I have been given. The officer then did something really stupid. He decided to not only depress the trigger but also fully ratchet the appropriate lever on the gun to put it into a firing position, and then he fully depressed the trigger. In those circumstances if the Glock pistol had not fired, we would be asking for our money back. The fact of the matter is that human error cannot be eliminated. Similar instances of human error have occurred with all the other guns. However, we do know that all the professional evidence points to the fact that this gun has more safety mechanisms than any of the alternative guns. It is used by over 600 policing agencies in over 100 countries throughout the world, and it has a reputation as being one of the safest guns available to police services. I do not know whether somebody from one of the other manufacturers is paying the member for Kalgoorlie or what his particular issue is - Withdrawal of Remark Mr C.J. BARNETT: The minister has quite clearly impugned the reputation of the member for Kalgoorlie by implying that he was in receipt of financial benefit for asking questions and pursuing an issue. That is clearly impugning him, Mr Speaker, and I require and request that you call her to order. The SPEAKER: I was listening to what the Minister for Police said. She said that she did not know whether the member was in the employ of somebody. However, it is sailing too close to the wind and I ask the minister to withdraw that comment. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: I apologise, but I am at a loss to understand - Several members interjected. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: I have withdrawn it. I am quite happy to apologise and withdraw if the member is telling me that that is not the case. I fully apologise and withdraw. Questions without Notice Resumed Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: There is a lot of rabble opposite, Mr Speaker. Point of Order Mr R.F. JOHNSON: As I understand it, Mr Speaker, you required the minister to withdraw the comment. Dr G.I. Gallop: She did. Mr R.F. JOHNSON: She has not withdrawn without qualification. Dr G.I. Gallop: She has apologised and withdrawn. Mr R.F. JOHNSON: No, she has not; not without qualification. I draw that to your attention, Mr Speaker. The SPEAKER: The minister has withdrawn and apologised. Questions without Notice Resumed Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: That is quite certainly the case. What puzzles me is why the member for Kalgoorlie has become so obsessed about this issue. The incident that has been referred to is a matter of a gun performing as it is designed to perform. There is no issue with the gun arising out of the incident. There is an issue with the officer. It seems quite unreasonable for members opposite to suggest to me that I should know what the commissioner and the deputy commissioner did not know and what had not been reported to them. I made it quite clear when I gave the answer during the Estimates Committee hearing that the advice from the commissioner was that there had been no accidental discharge. Both the commissioner and the deputy commissioner have assured me that, although it is debatable whether it was an accidental discharge, if they had been aware of the incident, they would have said so at the time and we would have reported it fully in the Parliament. Mr J.N. Hyde interjected. The SPEAKER: Member for Perth!
Mr M.J. Birney interjected. Mr J.N. Hyde: A bloke pulled the trigger! It didn’t go off by itself. The SPEAKER: Members! I call the member for Perth to order for the second time. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: Mr Speaker, I want to explain exactly what the incident involved and then people can come to their own conclusions about it. On 18 April at our central station an officer took from a secure area his allocated Glock pistol. He then took a magazine and loaded that into the pistol and put that in his holster. He got another magazine and loaded it in the appropriate place on his belt. Mr M.J. Birney: He can only load one at a time. The SPEAKER: Member for Kalgoorlie! Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: The member is the one who does not know what he is talking about. I have now read the incident report that has been provided to me, and I am providing the member with the facts. Mr M.J. Birney interjected. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: The member has not even listened. I have said that the officer loaded the first magazine into the pistol and he loaded the other magazine into his belt. This was essentially the explanation given to me by the Commissioner of Police late yesterday afternoon, and it has been confirmed by an incident briefing note that I have been given. The officer then did something really stupid. He decided to not only depress the trigger but also fully ratchet the appropriate lever on the gun to put it into a firing position, and then he fully depressed the trigger. In those circumstances if the Glock pistol had not fired, we would be asking for our money back. The fact of the matter is that human error cannot be eliminated. Similar instances of human error have occurred with all the other guns. However, we do know that all the professional evidence points to the fact that this gun has more safety mechanisms than any of the alternative guns. It is used by over 600 policing agencies in over 100 countries throughout the world, and it has a reputation as being one of the safest guns available to police services. I do not know whether somebody from one of the other manufacturers is paying the member for Kalgoorlie or what his particular issue is - Withdrawal of Remark Mr C.J. BARNETT: The minister has quite clearly impugned the reputation of the member for Kalgoorlie by implying that he was in receipt of financial benefit for asking questions and pursuing an issue. That is clearly impugning him, Mr Speaker, and I require and request that you call her to order. The SPEAKER: I was listening to what the Minister for Police said. She said that she did not know whether the member was in the employ of somebody. However, it is sailing too close to the wind and I ask the minister to withdraw that comment. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: I apologise, but I am at a loss to understand - Several members interjected. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: I have withdrawn it. I am quite happy to apologise and withdraw if the member is telling me that that is not the case. I fully apologise and withdraw. Questions without Notice Resumed Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: There is a lot of rabble opposite, Mr Speaker. Point of Order Mr R.F. JOHNSON: As I understand it, Mr Speaker, you required the minister to withdraw the comment. Dr G.I. Gallop: She did. Mr R.F. JOHNSON: She has not withdrawn without qualification. Dr G.I. Gallop: She has apologised and withdrawn. Mr R.F. JOHNSON: No, she has not; not without qualification. I draw that to your attention, Mr Speaker. The SPEAKER: The minister has withdrawn and apologised. Questions without Notice Resumed Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: That is quite certainly the case. What puzzles me is why the member for Kalgoorlie has become so obsessed about this issue. The incident that has been referred to is a matter of a gun performing as it is designed to perform. There is no issue with the gun arising out of the incident. There is an issue with the officer. It seems quite unreasonable for members opposite to suggest to me that I should know what the commissioner and the deputy commissioner did not know and what had not been reported to them. I made it quite clear when I gave the answer during the Estimates Committee hearing that the advice from the commissioner was that there had been no accidental discharge. Both the commissioner and the deputy commissioner have assured me that, although it is debatable whether it was an accidental discharge, if they had been aware of the incident, they would have said so at the time and we would have reported it fully in the Parliament. Mr J.N. Hyde interjected. The SPEAKER: Member for Perth!
Mr J.N. Hyde: A bloke pulled the trigger! It didn’t go off by itself. The SPEAKER: Members! I call the member for Perth to order for the second time. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: Mr Speaker, I want to explain exactly what the incident involved and then people can come to their own conclusions about it. On 18 April at our central station an officer took from a secure area his allocated Glock pistol. He then took a magazine and loaded that into the pistol and put that in his holster. He got another magazine and loaded it in the appropriate place on his belt. Mr M.J. Birney: He can only load one at a time. The SPEAKER: Member for Kalgoorlie! Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: The member is the one who does not know what he is talking about. I have now read the incident report that has been provided to me, and I am providing the member with the facts. Mr M.J. Birney interjected. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: The member has not even listened. I have said that the officer loaded the first magazine into the pistol and he loaded the other magazine into his belt. This was essentially the explanation given to me by the Commissioner of Police late yesterday afternoon, and it has been confirmed by an incident briefing note that I have been given. The officer then did something really stupid. He decided to not only depress the trigger but also fully ratchet the appropriate lever on the gun to put it into a firing position, and then he fully depressed the trigger. In those circumstances if the Glock pistol had not fired, we would be asking for our money back. The fact of the matter is that human error cannot be eliminated. Similar instances of human error have occurred with all the other guns. However, we do know that all the professional evidence points to the fact that this gun has more safety mechanisms than any of the alternative guns. It is used by over 600 policing agencies in over 100 countries throughout the world, and it has a reputation as being one of the safest guns available to police services. I do not know whether somebody from one of the other manufacturers is paying the member for Kalgoorlie or what his particular issue is - Withdrawal of Remark Mr C.J. BARNETT: The minister has quite clearly impugned the reputation of the member for Kalgoorlie by implying that he was in receipt of financial benefit for asking questions and pursuing an issue. That is clearly impugning him, Mr Speaker, and I require and request that you call her to order. The SPEAKER: I was listening to what the Minister for Police said. She said that she did not know whether the member was in the employ of somebody. However, it is sailing too close to the wind and I ask the minister to withdraw that comment. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: I apologise, but I am at a loss to understand - Several members interjected. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: I have withdrawn it. I am quite happy to apologise and withdraw if the member is telling me that that is not the case. I fully apologise and withdraw. Questions without Notice Resumed Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: There is a lot of rabble opposite, Mr Speaker. Point of Order Mr R.F. JOHNSON: As I understand it, Mr Speaker, you required the minister to withdraw the comment. Dr G.I. Gallop: She did. Mr R.F. JOHNSON: She has not withdrawn without qualification. Dr G.I. Gallop: She has apologised and withdrawn. Mr R.F. JOHNSON: No, she has not; not without qualification. I draw that to your attention, Mr Speaker. The SPEAKER: The minister has withdrawn and apologised. Questions without Notice Resumed Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: That is quite certainly the case. What puzzles me is why the member for Kalgoorlie has become so obsessed about this issue. The incident that has been referred to is a matter of a gun performing as it is designed to perform. There is no issue with the gun arising out of the incident. There is an issue with the officer. It seems quite unreasonable for members opposite to suggest to me that I should know what the commissioner and the deputy commissioner did not know and what had not been reported to them. I made it quite clear when I gave the answer during the Estimates Committee hearing that the advice from the commissioner was that there had been no accidental discharge. Both the commissioner and the deputy commissioner have assured me that, although it is debatable whether it was an accidental discharge, if they had been aware of the incident, they would have said so at the time and we would have reported it fully in the Parliament. Mr J.N. Hyde interjected. The SPEAKER: Member for Perth!
The SPEAKER: Members! I call the member for Perth to order for the second time. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: Mr Speaker, I want to explain exactly what the incident involved and then people can come to their own conclusions about it. On 18 April at our central station an officer took from a secure area his allocated Glock pistol. He then took a magazine and loaded that into the pistol and put that in his holster. He got another magazine and loaded it in the appropriate place on his belt. Mr M.J. Birney: He can only load one at a time. The SPEAKER: Member for Kalgoorlie! Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: The member is the one who does not know what he is talking about. I have now read the incident report that has been provided to me, and I am providing the member with the facts. Mr M.J. Birney interjected. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: The member has not even listened. I have said that the officer loaded the first magazine into the pistol and he loaded the other magazine into his belt. This was essentially the explanation given to me by the Commissioner of Police late yesterday afternoon, and it has been confirmed by an incident briefing note that I have been given. The officer then did something really stupid. He decided to not only depress the trigger but also fully ratchet the appropriate lever on the gun to put it into a firing position, and then he fully depressed the trigger. In those circumstances if the Glock pistol had not fired, we would be asking for our money back. The fact of the matter is that human error cannot be eliminated. Similar instances of human error have occurred with all the other guns. However, we do know that all the professional evidence points to the fact that this gun has more safety mechanisms than any of the alternative guns. It is used by over 600 policing agencies in over 100 countries throughout the world, and it has a reputation as being one of the safest guns available to police services. I do not know whether somebody from one of the other manufacturers is paying the member for Kalgoorlie or what his particular issue is - Withdrawal of Remark Mr C.J. BARNETT: The minister has quite clearly impugned the reputation of the member for Kalgoorlie by implying that he was in receipt of financial benefit for asking questions and pursuing an issue. That is clearly impugning him, Mr Speaker, and I require and request that you call her to order. The SPEAKER: I was listening to what the Minister for Police said. She said that she did not know whether the member was in the employ of somebody. However, it is sailing too close to the wind and I ask the minister to withdraw that comment. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: I apologise, but I am at a loss to understand - Several members interjected. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: I have withdrawn it. I am quite happy to apologise and withdraw if the member is telling me that that is not the case. I fully apologise and withdraw. Questions without Notice Resumed Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: There is a lot of rabble opposite, Mr Speaker. Point of Order Mr R.F. JOHNSON: As I understand it, Mr Speaker, you required the minister to withdraw the comment. Dr G.I. Gallop: She did. Mr R.F. JOHNSON: She has not withdrawn without qualification. Dr G.I. Gallop: She has apologised and withdrawn. Mr R.F. JOHNSON: No, she has not; not without qualification. I draw that to your attention, Mr Speaker. The SPEAKER: The minister has withdrawn and apologised. Questions without Notice Resumed Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: That is quite certainly the case. What puzzles me is why the member for Kalgoorlie has become so obsessed about this issue. The incident that has been referred to is a matter of a gun performing as it is designed to perform. There is no issue with the gun arising out of the incident. There is an issue with the officer. It seems quite unreasonable for members opposite to suggest to me that I should know what the commissioner and the deputy commissioner did not know and what had not been reported to them. I made it quite clear when I gave the answer during the Estimates Committee hearing that the advice from the commissioner was that there had been no accidental discharge. Both the commissioner and the deputy commissioner have assured me that, although it is debatable whether it was an accidental discharge, if they had been aware of the incident, they would have said so at the time and we would have reported it fully in the Parliament. Mr J.N. Hyde interjected. The SPEAKER: Member for Perth!
Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: Mr Speaker, I want to explain exactly what the incident involved and then people can come to their own conclusions about it. On 18 April at our central station an officer took from a secure area his allocated Glock pistol. He then took a magazine and loaded that into the pistol and put that in his holster. He got another magazine and loaded it in the appropriate place on his belt. Mr M.J. Birney: He can only load one at a time. The SPEAKER: Member for Kalgoorlie! Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: The member is the one who does not know what he is talking about. I have now read the incident report that has been provided to me, and I am providing the member with the facts. Mr M.J. Birney interjected. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: The member has not even listened. I have said that the officer loaded the first magazine into the pistol and he loaded the other magazine into his belt. This was essentially the explanation given to me by the Commissioner of Police late yesterday afternoon, and it has been confirmed by an incident briefing note that I have been given. The officer then did something really stupid. He decided to not only depress the trigger but also fully ratchet the appropriate lever on the gun to put it into a firing position, and then he fully depressed the trigger. In those circumstances if the Glock pistol had not fired, we would be asking for our money back. The fact of the matter is that human error cannot be eliminated. Similar instances of human error have occurred with all the other guns. However, we do know that all the professional evidence points to the fact that this gun has more safety mechanisms than any of the alternative guns. It is used by over 600 policing agencies in over 100 countries throughout the world, and it has a reputation as being one of the safest guns available to police services. I do not know whether somebody from one of the other manufacturers is paying the member for Kalgoorlie or what his particular issue is - Withdrawal of Remark Mr C.J. BARNETT: The minister has quite clearly impugned the reputation of the member for Kalgoorlie by implying that he was in receipt of financial benefit for asking questions and pursuing an issue. That is clearly impugning him, Mr Speaker, and I require and request that you call her to order. The SPEAKER: I was listening to what the Minister for Police said. She said that she did not know whether the member was in the employ of somebody. However, it is sailing too close to the wind and I ask the minister to withdraw that comment. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: I apologise, but I am at a loss to understand - Several members interjected. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: I have withdrawn it. I am quite happy to apologise and withdraw if the member is telling me that that is not the case. I fully apologise and withdraw. Questions without Notice Resumed Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: There is a lot of rabble opposite, Mr Speaker. Point of Order Mr R.F. JOHNSON: As I understand it, Mr Speaker, you required the minister to withdraw the comment. Dr G.I. Gallop: She did. Mr R.F. JOHNSON: She has not withdrawn without qualification. Dr G.I. Gallop: She has apologised and withdrawn. Mr R.F. JOHNSON: No, she has not; not without qualification. I draw that to your attention, Mr Speaker. The SPEAKER: The minister has withdrawn and apologised. Questions without Notice Resumed Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: That is quite certainly the case. What puzzles me is why the member for Kalgoorlie has become so obsessed about this issue. The incident that has been referred to is a matter of a gun performing as it is designed to perform. There is no issue with the gun arising out of the incident. There is an issue with the officer. It seems quite unreasonable for members opposite to suggest to me that I should know what the commissioner and the deputy commissioner did not know and what had not been reported to them. I made it quite clear when I gave the answer during the Estimates Committee hearing that the advice from the commissioner was that there had been no accidental discharge. Both the commissioner and the deputy commissioner have assured me that, although it is debatable whether it was an accidental discharge, if they had been aware of the incident, they would have said so at the time and we would have reported it fully in the Parliament. Mr J.N. Hyde interjected. The SPEAKER: Member for Perth!
Mr M.J. Birney: He can only load one at a time. The SPEAKER: Member for Kalgoorlie! Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: The member is the one who does not know what he is talking about. I have now read the incident report that has been provided to me, and I am providing the member with the facts. Mr M.J. Birney interjected. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: The member has not even listened. I have said that the officer loaded the first magazine into the pistol and he loaded the other magazine into his belt. This was essentially the explanation given to me by the Commissioner of Police late yesterday afternoon, and it has been confirmed by an incident briefing note that I have been given. The officer then did something really stupid. He decided to not only depress the trigger but also fully ratchet the appropriate lever on the gun to put it into a firing position, and then he fully depressed the trigger. In those circumstances if the Glock pistol had not fired, we would be asking for our money back. The fact of the matter is that human error cannot be eliminated. Similar instances of human error have occurred with all the other guns. However, we do know that all the professional evidence points to the fact that this gun has more safety mechanisms than any of the alternative guns. It is used by over 600 policing agencies in over 100 countries throughout the world, and it has a reputation as being one of the safest guns available to police services. I do not know whether somebody from one of the other manufacturers is paying the member for Kalgoorlie or what his particular issue is - Withdrawal of Remark Mr C.J. BARNETT: The minister has quite clearly impugned the reputation of the member for Kalgoorlie by implying that he was in receipt of financial benefit for asking questions and pursuing an issue. That is clearly impugning him, Mr Speaker, and I require and request that you call her to order. The SPEAKER: I was listening to what the Minister for Police said. She said that she did not know whether the member was in the employ of somebody. However, it is sailing too close to the wind and I ask the minister to withdraw that comment. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: I apologise, but I am at a loss to understand - Several members interjected. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: I have withdrawn it. I am quite happy to apologise and withdraw if the member is telling me that that is not the case. I fully apologise and withdraw. Questions without Notice Resumed Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: There is a lot of rabble opposite, Mr Speaker. Point of Order Mr R.F. JOHNSON: As I understand it, Mr Speaker, you required the minister to withdraw the comment. Dr G.I. Gallop: She did. Mr R.F. JOHNSON: She has not withdrawn without qualification. Dr G.I. Gallop: She has apologised and withdrawn. Mr R.F. JOHNSON: No, she has not; not without qualification. I draw that to your attention, Mr Speaker. The SPEAKER: The minister has withdrawn and apologised. Questions without Notice Resumed Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: That is quite certainly the case. What puzzles me is why the member for Kalgoorlie has become so obsessed about this issue. The incident that has been referred to is a matter of a gun performing as it is designed to perform. There is no issue with the gun arising out of the incident. There is an issue with the officer. It seems quite unreasonable for members opposite to suggest to me that I should know what the commissioner and the deputy commissioner did not know and what had not been reported to them. I made it quite clear when I gave the answer during the Estimates Committee hearing that the advice from the commissioner was that there had been no accidental discharge. Both the commissioner and the deputy commissioner have assured me that, although it is debatable whether it was an accidental discharge, if they had been aware of the incident, they would have said so at the time and we would have reported it fully in the Parliament. Mr J.N. Hyde interjected. The SPEAKER: Member for Perth!
The SPEAKER: Member for Kalgoorlie! Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: The member is the one who does not know what he is talking about. I have now read the incident report that has been provided to me, and I am providing the member with the facts. Mr M.J. Birney interjected. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: The member has not even listened. I have said that the officer loaded the first magazine into the pistol and he loaded the other magazine into his belt. This was essentially the explanation given to me by the Commissioner of Police late yesterday afternoon, and it has been confirmed by an incident briefing note that I have been given. The officer then did something really stupid. He decided to not only depress the trigger but also fully ratchet the appropriate lever on the gun to put it into a firing position, and then he fully depressed the trigger. In those circumstances if the Glock pistol had not fired, we would be asking for our money back. The fact of the matter is that human error cannot be eliminated. Similar instances of human error have occurred with all the other guns. However, we do know that all the professional evidence points to the fact that this gun has more safety mechanisms than any of the alternative guns. It is used by over 600 policing agencies in over 100 countries throughout the world, and it has a reputation as being one of the safest guns available to police services. I do not know whether somebody from one of the other manufacturers is paying the member for Kalgoorlie or what his particular issue is - Withdrawal of Remark Mr C.J. BARNETT: The minister has quite clearly impugned the reputation of the member for Kalgoorlie by implying that he was in receipt of financial benefit for asking questions and pursuing an issue. That is clearly impugning him, Mr Speaker, and I require and request that you call her to order. The SPEAKER: I was listening to what the Minister for Police said. She said that she did not know whether the member was in the employ of somebody. However, it is sailing too close to the wind and I ask the minister to withdraw that comment. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: I apologise, but I am at a loss to understand - Several members interjected. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: I have withdrawn it. I am quite happy to apologise and withdraw if the member is telling me that that is not the case. I fully apologise and withdraw. Questions without Notice Resumed Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: There is a lot of rabble opposite, Mr Speaker. Point of Order Mr R.F. JOHNSON: As I understand it, Mr Speaker, you required the minister to withdraw the comment. Dr G.I. Gallop: She did. Mr R.F. JOHNSON: She has not withdrawn without qualification. Dr G.I. Gallop: She has apologised and withdrawn. Mr R.F. JOHNSON: No, she has not; not without qualification. I draw that to your attention, Mr Speaker. The SPEAKER: The minister has withdrawn and apologised. Questions without Notice Resumed Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: That is quite certainly the case. What puzzles me is why the member for Kalgoorlie has become so obsessed about this issue. The incident that has been referred to is a matter of a gun performing as it is designed to perform. There is no issue with the gun arising out of the incident. There is an issue with the officer. It seems quite unreasonable for members opposite to suggest to me that I should know what the commissioner and the deputy commissioner did not know and what had not been reported to them. I made it quite clear when I gave the answer during the Estimates Committee hearing that the advice from the commissioner was that there had been no accidental discharge. Both the commissioner and the deputy commissioner have assured me that, although it is debatable whether it was an accidental discharge, if they had been aware of the incident, they would have said so at the time and we would have reported it fully in the Parliament. Mr J.N. Hyde interjected. The SPEAKER: Member for Perth!
Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: The member is the one who does not know what he is talking about. I have now read the incident report that has been provided to me, and I am providing the member with the facts. Mr M.J. Birney interjected. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: The member has not even listened. I have said that the officer loaded the first magazine into the pistol and he loaded the other magazine into his belt. This was essentially the explanation given to me by the Commissioner of Police late yesterday afternoon, and it has been confirmed by an incident briefing note that I have been given. The officer then did something really stupid. He decided to not only depress the trigger but also fully ratchet the appropriate lever on the gun to put it into a firing position, and then he fully depressed the trigger. In those circumstances if the Glock pistol had not fired, we would be asking for our money back. The fact of the matter is that human error cannot be eliminated. Similar instances of human error have occurred with all the other guns. However, we do know that all the professional evidence points to the fact that this gun has more safety mechanisms than any of the alternative guns. It is used by over 600 policing agencies in over 100 countries throughout the world, and it has a reputation as being one of the safest guns available to police services. I do not know whether somebody from one of the other manufacturers is paying the member for Kalgoorlie or what his particular issue is - Withdrawal of Remark Mr C.J. BARNETT: The minister has quite clearly impugned the reputation of the member for Kalgoorlie by implying that he was in receipt of financial benefit for asking questions and pursuing an issue. That is clearly impugning him, Mr Speaker, and I require and request that you call her to order. The SPEAKER: I was listening to what the Minister for Police said. She said that she did not know whether the member was in the employ of somebody. However, it is sailing too close to the wind and I ask the minister to withdraw that comment. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: I apologise, but I am at a loss to understand - Several members interjected. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: I have withdrawn it. I am quite happy to apologise and withdraw if the member is telling me that that is not the case. I fully apologise and withdraw. Questions without Notice Resumed Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: There is a lot of rabble opposite, Mr Speaker. Point of Order Mr R.F. JOHNSON: As I understand it, Mr Speaker, you required the minister to withdraw the comment. Dr G.I. Gallop: She did. Mr R.F. JOHNSON: She has not withdrawn without qualification. Dr G.I. Gallop: She has apologised and withdrawn. Mr R.F. JOHNSON: No, she has not; not without qualification. I draw that to your attention, Mr Speaker. The SPEAKER: The minister has withdrawn and apologised. Questions without Notice Resumed Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: That is quite certainly the case. What puzzles me is why the member for Kalgoorlie has become so obsessed about this issue. The incident that has been referred to is a matter of a gun performing as it is designed to perform. There is no issue with the gun arising out of the incident. There is an issue with the officer. It seems quite unreasonable for members opposite to suggest to me that I should know what the commissioner and the deputy commissioner did not know and what had not been reported to them. I made it quite clear when I gave the answer during the Estimates Committee hearing that the advice from the commissioner was that there had been no accidental discharge. Both the commissioner and the deputy commissioner have assured me that, although it is debatable whether it was an accidental discharge, if they had been aware of the incident, they would have said so at the time and we would have reported it fully in the Parliament. Mr J.N. Hyde interjected. The SPEAKER: Member for Perth!
Mr M.J. Birney interjected. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: The member has not even listened. I have said that the officer loaded the first magazine into the pistol and he loaded the other magazine into his belt. This was essentially the explanation given to me by the Commissioner of Police late yesterday afternoon, and it has been confirmed by an incident briefing note that I have been given. The officer then did something really stupid. He decided to not only depress the trigger but also fully ratchet the appropriate lever on the gun to put it into a firing position, and then he fully depressed the trigger. In those circumstances if the Glock pistol had not fired, we would be asking for our money back. The fact of the matter is that human error cannot be eliminated. Similar instances of human error have occurred with all the other guns. However, we do know that all the professional evidence points to the fact that this gun has more safety mechanisms than any of the alternative guns. It is used by over 600 policing agencies in over 100 countries throughout the world, and it has a reputation as being one of the safest guns available to police services. I do not know whether somebody from one of the other manufacturers is paying the member for Kalgoorlie or what his particular issue is - Withdrawal of Remark Mr C.J. BARNETT: The minister has quite clearly impugned the reputation of the member for Kalgoorlie by implying that he was in receipt of financial benefit for asking questions and pursuing an issue. That is clearly impugning him, Mr Speaker, and I require and request that you call her to order. The SPEAKER: I was listening to what the Minister for Police said. She said that she did not know whether the member was in the employ of somebody. However, it is sailing too close to the wind and I ask the minister to withdraw that comment. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: I apologise, but I am at a loss to understand - Several members interjected. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: I have withdrawn it. I am quite happy to apologise and withdraw if the member is telling me that that is not the case. I fully apologise and withdraw. Questions without Notice Resumed Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: There is a lot of rabble opposite, Mr Speaker. Point of Order Mr R.F. JOHNSON: As I understand it, Mr Speaker, you required the minister to withdraw the comment. Dr G.I. Gallop: She did. Mr R.F. JOHNSON: She has not withdrawn without qualification. Dr G.I. Gallop: She has apologised and withdrawn. Mr R.F. JOHNSON: No, she has not; not without qualification. I draw that to your attention, Mr Speaker. The SPEAKER: The minister has withdrawn and apologised. Questions without Notice Resumed Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: That is quite certainly the case. What puzzles me is why the member for Kalgoorlie has become so obsessed about this issue. The incident that has been referred to is a matter of a gun performing as it is designed to perform. There is no issue with the gun arising out of the incident. There is an issue with the officer. It seems quite unreasonable for members opposite to suggest to me that I should know what the commissioner and the deputy commissioner did not know and what had not been reported to them. I made it quite clear when I gave the answer during the Estimates Committee hearing that the advice from the commissioner was that there had been no accidental discharge. Both the commissioner and the deputy commissioner have assured me that, although it is debatable whether it was an accidental discharge, if they had been aware of the incident, they would have said so at the time and we would have reported it fully in the Parliament. Mr J.N. Hyde interjected. The SPEAKER: Member for Perth!
Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: The member has not even listened. I have said that the officer loaded the first magazine into the pistol and he loaded the other magazine into his belt. This was essentially the explanation given to me by the Commissioner of Police late yesterday afternoon, and it has been confirmed by an incident briefing note that I have been given. The officer then did something really stupid. He decided to not only depress the trigger but also fully ratchet the appropriate lever on the gun to put it into a firing position, and then he fully depressed the trigger. In those circumstances if the Glock pistol had not fired, we would be asking for our money back. The fact of the matter is that human error cannot be eliminated. Similar instances of human error have occurred with all the other guns. However, we do know that all the professional evidence points to the fact that this gun has more safety mechanisms than any of the alternative guns. It is used by over 600 policing agencies in over 100 countries throughout the world, and it has a reputation as being one of the safest guns available to police services. I do not know whether somebody from one of the other manufacturers is paying the member for Kalgoorlie or what his particular issue is - Withdrawal of Remark Mr C.J. BARNETT: The minister has quite clearly impugned the reputation of the member for Kalgoorlie by implying that he was in receipt of financial benefit for asking questions and pursuing an issue. That is clearly impugning him, Mr Speaker, and I require and request that you call her to order. The SPEAKER: I was listening to what the Minister for Police said. She said that she did not know whether the member was in the employ of somebody. However, it is sailing too close to the wind and I ask the minister to withdraw that comment. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: I apologise, but I am at a loss to understand - Several members interjected. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: I have withdrawn it. I am quite happy to apologise and withdraw if the member is telling me that that is not the case. I fully apologise and withdraw. Questions without Notice Resumed Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: There is a lot of rabble opposite, Mr Speaker. Point of Order Mr R.F. JOHNSON: As I understand it, Mr Speaker, you required the minister to withdraw the comment. Dr G.I. Gallop: She did. Mr R.F. JOHNSON: She has not withdrawn without qualification. Dr G.I. Gallop: She has apologised and withdrawn. Mr R.F. JOHNSON: No, she has not; not without qualification. I draw that to your attention, Mr Speaker. The SPEAKER: The minister has withdrawn and apologised. Questions without Notice Resumed Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: That is quite certainly the case. What puzzles me is why the member for Kalgoorlie has become so obsessed about this issue. The incident that has been referred to is a matter of a gun performing as it is designed to perform. There is no issue with the gun arising out of the incident. There is an issue with the officer. It seems quite unreasonable for members opposite to suggest to me that I should know what the commissioner and the deputy commissioner did not know and what had not been reported to them. I made it quite clear when I gave the answer during the Estimates Committee hearing that the advice from the commissioner was that there had been no accidental discharge. Both the commissioner and the deputy commissioner have assured me that, although it is debatable whether it was an accidental discharge, if they had been aware of the incident, they would have said so at the time and we would have reported it fully in the Parliament. Mr J.N. Hyde interjected. The SPEAKER: Member for Perth!
The SPEAKER: I was listening to what the Minister for Police said. She said that she did not know whether the member was in the employ of somebody. However, it is sailing too close to the wind and I ask the minister to withdraw that comment. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: I apologise, but I am at a loss to understand - Several members interjected. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: I have withdrawn it. I am quite happy to apologise and withdraw if the member is telling me that that is not the case. I fully apologise and withdraw. Questions without Notice Resumed Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: There is a lot of rabble opposite, Mr Speaker. Point of Order Mr R.F. JOHNSON: As I understand it, Mr Speaker, you required the minister to withdraw the comment. Dr G.I. Gallop: She did. Mr R.F. JOHNSON: She has not withdrawn without qualification. Dr G.I. Gallop: She has apologised and withdrawn. Mr R.F. JOHNSON: No, she has not; not without qualification. I draw that to your attention, Mr Speaker. The SPEAKER: The minister has withdrawn and apologised. Questions without Notice Resumed Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: That is quite certainly the case. What puzzles me is why the member for Kalgoorlie has become so obsessed about this issue. The incident that has been referred to is a matter of a gun performing as it is designed to perform. There is no issue with the gun arising out of the incident. There is an issue with the officer. It seems quite unreasonable for members opposite to suggest to me that I should know what the commissioner and the deputy commissioner did not know and what had not been reported to them. I made it quite clear when I gave the answer during the Estimates Committee hearing that the advice from the commissioner was that there had been no accidental discharge. Both the commissioner and the deputy commissioner have assured me that, although it is debatable whether it was an accidental discharge, if they had been aware of the incident, they would have said so at the time and we would have reported it fully in the Parliament. Mr J.N. Hyde interjected. The SPEAKER: Member for Perth!
Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: I apologise, but I am at a loss to understand - Several members interjected. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: I have withdrawn it. I am quite happy to apologise and withdraw if the member is telling me that that is not the case. I fully apologise and withdraw. Questions without Notice Resumed Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: There is a lot of rabble opposite, Mr Speaker. Point of Order Mr R.F. JOHNSON: As I understand it, Mr Speaker, you required the minister to withdraw the comment. Dr G.I. Gallop: She did. Mr R.F. JOHNSON: She has not withdrawn without qualification. Dr G.I. Gallop: She has apologised and withdrawn. Mr R.F. JOHNSON: No, she has not; not without qualification. I draw that to your attention, Mr Speaker. The SPEAKER: The minister has withdrawn and apologised. Questions without Notice Resumed Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: That is quite certainly the case. What puzzles me is why the member for Kalgoorlie has become so obsessed about this issue. The incident that has been referred to is a matter of a gun performing as it is designed to perform. There is no issue with the gun arising out of the incident. There is an issue with the officer. It seems quite unreasonable for members opposite to suggest to me that I should know what the commissioner and the deputy commissioner did not know and what had not been reported to them. I made it quite clear when I gave the answer during the Estimates Committee hearing that the advice from the commissioner was that there had been no accidental discharge. Both the commissioner and the deputy commissioner have assured me that, although it is debatable whether it was an accidental discharge, if they had been aware of the incident, they would have said so at the time and we would have reported it fully in the Parliament. Mr J.N. Hyde interjected. The SPEAKER: Member for Perth!
Several members interjected. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: I have withdrawn it. I am quite happy to apologise and withdraw if the member is telling me that that is not the case. I fully apologise and withdraw. Questions without Notice Resumed Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: There is a lot of rabble opposite, Mr Speaker. Point of Order Mr R.F. JOHNSON: As I understand it, Mr Speaker, you required the minister to withdraw the comment. Dr G.I. Gallop: She did. Mr R.F. JOHNSON: She has not withdrawn without qualification. Dr G.I. Gallop: She has apologised and withdrawn. Mr R.F. JOHNSON: No, she has not; not without qualification. I draw that to your attention, Mr Speaker. The SPEAKER: The minister has withdrawn and apologised. Questions without Notice Resumed Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: That is quite certainly the case. What puzzles me is why the member for Kalgoorlie has become so obsessed about this issue. The incident that has been referred to is a matter of a gun performing as it is designed to perform. There is no issue with the gun arising out of the incident. There is an issue with the officer. It seems quite unreasonable for members opposite to suggest to me that I should know what the commissioner and the deputy commissioner did not know and what had not been reported to them. I made it quite clear when I gave the answer during the Estimates Committee hearing that the advice from the commissioner was that there had been no accidental discharge. Both the commissioner and the deputy commissioner have assured me that, although it is debatable whether it was an accidental discharge, if they had been aware of the incident, they would have said so at the time and we would have reported it fully in the Parliament. Mr J.N. Hyde interjected. The SPEAKER: Member for Perth!
Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: I have withdrawn it. I am quite happy to apologise and withdraw if the member is telling me that that is not the case. I fully apologise and withdraw. Questions without Notice Resumed Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: There is a lot of rabble opposite, Mr Speaker. Point of Order Mr R.F. JOHNSON: As I understand it, Mr Speaker, you required the minister to withdraw the comment. Dr G.I. Gallop: She did. Mr R.F. JOHNSON: She has not withdrawn without qualification. Dr G.I. Gallop: She has apologised and withdrawn. Mr R.F. JOHNSON: No, she has not; not without qualification. I draw that to your attention, Mr Speaker. The SPEAKER: The minister has withdrawn and apologised. Questions without Notice Resumed Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: That is quite certainly the case. What puzzles me is why the member for Kalgoorlie has become so obsessed about this issue. The incident that has been referred to is a matter of a gun performing as it is designed to perform. There is no issue with the gun arising out of the incident. There is an issue with the officer. It seems quite unreasonable for members opposite to suggest to me that I should know what the commissioner and the deputy commissioner did not know and what had not been reported to them. I made it quite clear when I gave the answer during the Estimates Committee hearing that the advice from the commissioner was that there had been no accidental discharge. Both the commissioner and the deputy commissioner have assured me that, although it is debatable whether it was an accidental discharge, if they had been aware of the incident, they would have said so at the time and we would have reported it fully in the Parliament. Mr J.N. Hyde interjected. The SPEAKER: Member for Perth!
Dr G.I. Gallop: She did. Mr R.F. JOHNSON: She has not withdrawn without qualification. Dr G.I. Gallop: She has apologised and withdrawn. Mr R.F. JOHNSON: No, she has not; not without qualification. I draw that to your attention, Mr Speaker. The SPEAKER: The minister has withdrawn and apologised. Questions without Notice Resumed Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: That is quite certainly the case. What puzzles me is why the member for Kalgoorlie has become so obsessed about this issue. The incident that has been referred to is a matter of a gun performing as it is designed to perform. There is no issue with the gun arising out of the incident. There is an issue with the officer. It seems quite unreasonable for members opposite to suggest to me that I should know what the commissioner and the deputy commissioner did not know and what had not been reported to them. I made it quite clear when I gave the answer during the Estimates Committee hearing that the advice from the commissioner was that there had been no accidental discharge. Both the commissioner and the deputy commissioner have assured me that, although it is debatable whether it was an accidental discharge, if they had been aware of the incident, they would have said so at the time and we would have reported it fully in the Parliament. Mr J.N. Hyde interjected. The SPEAKER: Member for Perth!
Mr R.F. JOHNSON: She has not withdrawn without qualification. Dr G.I. Gallop: She has apologised and withdrawn. Mr R.F. JOHNSON: No, she has not; not without qualification. I draw that to your attention, Mr Speaker. The SPEAKER: The minister has withdrawn and apologised. Questions without Notice Resumed Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: That is quite certainly the case. What puzzles me is why the member for Kalgoorlie has become so obsessed about this issue. The incident that has been referred to is a matter of a gun performing as it is designed to perform. There is no issue with the gun arising out of the incident. There is an issue with the officer. It seems quite unreasonable for members opposite to suggest to me that I should know what the commissioner and the deputy commissioner did not know and what had not been reported to them. I made it quite clear when I gave the answer during the Estimates Committee hearing that the advice from the commissioner was that there had been no accidental discharge. Both the commissioner and the deputy commissioner have assured me that, although it is debatable whether it was an accidental discharge, if they had been aware of the incident, they would have said so at the time and we would have reported it fully in the Parliament. Mr J.N. Hyde interjected. The SPEAKER: Member for Perth!
Dr G.I. Gallop: She has apologised and withdrawn. Mr R.F. JOHNSON: No, she has not; not without qualification. I draw that to your attention, Mr Speaker. The SPEAKER: The minister has withdrawn and apologised. Questions without Notice Resumed Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: That is quite certainly the case. What puzzles me is why the member for Kalgoorlie has become so obsessed about this issue. The incident that has been referred to is a matter of a gun performing as it is designed to perform. There is no issue with the gun arising out of the incident. There is an issue with the officer. It seems quite unreasonable for members opposite to suggest to me that I should know what the commissioner and the deputy commissioner did not know and what had not been reported to them. I made it quite clear when I gave the answer during the Estimates Committee hearing that the advice from the commissioner was that there had been no accidental discharge. Both the commissioner and the deputy commissioner have assured me that, although it is debatable whether it was an accidental discharge, if they had been aware of the incident, they would have said so at the time and we would have reported it fully in the Parliament. Mr J.N. Hyde interjected. The SPEAKER: Member for Perth!
Mr R.F. JOHNSON: No, she has not; not without qualification. I draw that to your attention, Mr Speaker. The SPEAKER: The minister has withdrawn and apologised. Questions without Notice Resumed Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: That is quite certainly the case. What puzzles me is why the member for Kalgoorlie has become so obsessed about this issue. The incident that has been referred to is a matter of a gun performing as it is designed to perform. There is no issue with the gun arising out of the incident. There is an issue with the officer. It seems quite unreasonable for members opposite to suggest to me that I should know what the commissioner and the deputy commissioner did not know and what had not been reported to them. I made it quite clear when I gave the answer during the Estimates Committee hearing that the advice from the commissioner was that there had been no accidental discharge. Both the commissioner and the deputy commissioner have assured me that, although it is debatable whether it was an accidental discharge, if they had been aware of the incident, they would have said so at the time and we would have reported it fully in the Parliament. Mr J.N. Hyde interjected. The SPEAKER: Member for Perth!
The SPEAKER: The minister has withdrawn and apologised. Questions without Notice Resumed Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: That is quite certainly the case. What puzzles me is why the member for Kalgoorlie has become so obsessed about this issue. The incident that has been referred to is a matter of a gun performing as it is designed to perform. There is no issue with the gun arising out of the incident. There is an issue with the officer. It seems quite unreasonable for members opposite to suggest to me that I should know what the commissioner and the deputy commissioner did not know and what had not been reported to them. I made it quite clear when I gave the answer during the Estimates Committee hearing that the advice from the commissioner was that there had been no accidental discharge. Both the commissioner and the deputy commissioner have assured me that, although it is debatable whether it was an accidental discharge, if they had been aware of the incident, they would have said so at the time and we would have reported it fully in the Parliament. Mr J.N. Hyde interjected. The SPEAKER: Member for Perth!
Mr J.N. Hyde interjected. The SPEAKER: Member for Perth!
The SPEAKER: Member for Perth!
(1) Is the minister aware that this incident was very similar in nature to one that resulted in the death of a policeman in New South Wales? (2) Is the minister aware that this incident is exactly the kind of incident that interstate experts have warned of with regard to the Glock pistol, including the Queensland Coroner, the New South Wales Public Service Association and the head of Queensland’s Special Emergency Response Team? (3) Will the minister now admit that she misled the Parliament during the Estimates Committee hearings last month when she specifically and repeatedly stated that there had not been any accidental discharges involving the Glock pistols? (4) Is the minister continuing to deny that neither she nor any of the senior police command team that attended the Estimates Committee hearings were aware that a Glock pistol had discharged accidentally? Mrs M.H. ROBERTS replied: (1)-(4) The answer to the first two questions is no. With regard to the third question, I am prepared to put on record what occurred during the Estimates Committee hearings. Quite a number of members were present when the member for Kalgoorlie asked if there had been an accidental discharge of one of the new Glock pistols. I did not know the answer, so I asked the commissioner, who was sitting on my right, and the deputy commissioner, who was sitting on my left - Mr Matthews and Mr Brennan. On Mr Brennan’s left was also one of the assistant commissioners, Dr O’Callaghan, and three other senior police personnel. None of those people was aware that there had been any incident involving an accidental discharge. The member for Kalgoorlie has suggested that I should know more about the day-to-day operations of the Police Service than either the Commissioner of Police or the Deputy Commissioner. Mr M.J. Birney: You have no idea what is happening. You misled Parliament. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: Mr Speaker, I would like the opportunity to explain, which I think I deserve. I was informed by the commissioner yesterday - and he was made aware of the incident for the first time yesterday, when he was advised by Deputy Commissioner Brennan after he had been approached by The West Australian newspaper - Mr R.F. Johnson: Doesn’t that concern you? The SPEAKER: Members. Mr M.J. Birney: You’re the minister! The SPEAKER: I call the member for Kalgoorlie to order. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: Mr Speaker, this is a serious issue and it would be helpful if the member for Kalgoorlie did not try to take over the member for Nedlands’ role of continuing to disrupt question time. This is a serious issue. It is a matter that I do want to explain fully on the record. The fact of the matter is that an incident did occur on 18 April this year. At that time the commissioner was on leave and Mr Bruce Brennan, the deputy commissioner, was acting in that position. I am given to understand that Mr Brennan was not aware of the incident. It is debatable whether this could be called an accidental discharge at all - Mr M.J. Birney interjected. Mr J.N. Hyde: A bloke pulled the trigger! It didn’t go off by itself. The SPEAKER: Members! I call the member for Perth to order for the second time. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: Mr Speaker, I want to explain exactly what the incident involved and then people can come to their own conclusions about it. On 18 April at our central station an officer took from a secure area his allocated Glock pistol. He then took a magazine and loaded that into the pistol and put that in his holster. He got another magazine and loaded it in the appropriate place on his belt. Mr M.J. Birney: He can only load one at a time. The SPEAKER: Member for Kalgoorlie! Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: The member is the one who does not know what he is talking about. I have now read the incident report that has been provided to me, and I am providing the member with the facts. Mr M.J. Birney interjected. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: The member has not even listened. I have said that the officer loaded the first magazine into the pistol and he loaded the other magazine into his belt. This was essentially the explanation given to me by the Commissioner of Police late yesterday afternoon, and it has been confirmed by an incident briefing note that I have been given. The officer then did something really stupid. He decided to not only depress the trigger but also fully ratchet the appropriate lever on the gun to put it into a firing position, and then he fully depressed the trigger. In those circumstances if the Glock pistol had not fired, we would be asking for our money back. The fact of the matter is that human error cannot be eliminated. Similar instances of human error have occurred with all the other guns. However, we do know that all the professional evidence points to the fact that this gun has more safety mechanisms than any of the alternative guns. It is used by over 600 policing agencies in over 100 countries throughout the world, and it has a reputation as being one of the safest guns available to police services. I do not know whether somebody from one of the other manufacturers is paying the member for Kalgoorlie or what his particular issue is - Withdrawal of Remark Mr C.J. BARNETT: The minister has quite clearly impugned the reputation of the member for Kalgoorlie by implying that he was in receipt of financial benefit for asking questions and pursuing an issue. That is clearly impugning him, Mr Speaker, and I require and request that you call her to order. The SPEAKER: I was listening to what the Minister for Police said. She said that she did not know whether the member was in the employ of somebody. However, it is sailing too close to the wind and I ask the minister to withdraw that comment. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: I apologise, but I am at a loss to understand - Several members interjected. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: I have withdrawn it. I am quite happy to apologise and withdraw if the member is telling me that that is not the case. I fully apologise and withdraw. Questions without Notice Resumed Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: There is a lot of rabble opposite, Mr Speaker. Point of Order Mr R.F. JOHNSON: As I understand it, Mr Speaker, you required the minister to withdraw the comment. Dr G.I. Gallop: She did. Mr R.F. JOHNSON: She has not withdrawn without qualification. Dr G.I. Gallop: She has apologised and withdrawn. Mr R.F. JOHNSON: No, she has not; not without qualification. I draw that to your attention, Mr Speaker. The SPEAKER: The minister has withdrawn and apologised. Questions without Notice Resumed Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: That is quite certainly the case. What puzzles me is why the member for Kalgoorlie has become so obsessed about this issue. The incident that has been referred to is a matter of a gun performing as it is designed to perform. There is no issue with the gun arising out of the incident. There is an issue with the officer. It seems quite unreasonable for members opposite to suggest to me that I should know what the commissioner and the deputy commissioner did not know and what had not been reported to them. I made it quite clear when I gave the answer during the Estimates Committee hearing that the advice from the commissioner was that there had been no accidental discharge. Both the commissioner and the deputy commissioner have assured me that, although it is debatable whether it was an accidental discharge, if they had been aware of the incident, they would have said so at the time and we would have reported it fully in the Parliament. Mr J.N. Hyde interjected. The SPEAKER: Member for Perth!
(2) Is the minister aware that this incident is exactly the kind of incident that interstate experts have warned of with regard to the Glock pistol, including the Queensland Coroner, the New South Wales Public Service Association and the head of Queensland’s Special Emergency Response Team? (3) Will the minister now admit that she misled the Parliament during the Estimates Committee hearings last month when she specifically and repeatedly stated that there had not been any accidental discharges involving the Glock pistols? (4) Is the minister continuing to deny that neither she nor any of the senior police command team that attended the Estimates Committee hearings were aware that a Glock pistol had discharged accidentally? Mrs M.H. ROBERTS replied: (1)-(4) The answer to the first two questions is no. With regard to the third question, I am prepared to put on record what occurred during the Estimates Committee hearings. Quite a number of members were present when the member for Kalgoorlie asked if there had been an accidental discharge of one of the new Glock pistols. I did not know the answer, so I asked the commissioner, who was sitting on my right, and the deputy commissioner, who was sitting on my left - Mr Matthews and Mr Brennan. On Mr Brennan’s left was also one of the assistant commissioners, Dr O’Callaghan, and three other senior police personnel. None of those people was aware that there had been any incident involving an accidental discharge. The member for Kalgoorlie has suggested that I should know more about the day-to-day operations of the Police Service than either the Commissioner of Police or the Deputy Commissioner. Mr M.J. Birney: You have no idea what is happening. You misled Parliament. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: Mr Speaker, I would like the opportunity to explain, which I think I deserve. I was informed by the commissioner yesterday - and he was made aware of the incident for the first time yesterday, when he was advised by Deputy Commissioner Brennan after he had been approached by The West Australian newspaper - Mr R.F. Johnson: Doesn’t that concern you? The SPEAKER: Members. Mr M.J. Birney: You’re the minister! The SPEAKER: I call the member for Kalgoorlie to order. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: Mr Speaker, this is a serious issue and it would be helpful if the member for Kalgoorlie did not try to take over the member for Nedlands’ role of continuing to disrupt question time. This is a serious issue. It is a matter that I do want to explain fully on the record. The fact of the matter is that an incident did occur on 18 April this year. At that time the commissioner was on leave and Mr Bruce Brennan, the deputy commissioner, was acting in that position. I am given to understand that Mr Brennan was not aware of the incident. It is debatable whether this could be called an accidental discharge at all - Mr M.J. Birney interjected. Mr J.N. Hyde: A bloke pulled the trigger! It didn’t go off by itself. The SPEAKER: Members! I call the member for Perth to order for the second time. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: Mr Speaker, I want to explain exactly what the incident involved and then people can come to their own conclusions about it. On 18 April at our central station an officer took from a secure area his allocated Glock pistol. He then took a magazine and loaded that into the pistol and put that in his holster. He got another magazine and loaded it in the appropriate place on his belt. Mr M.J. Birney: He can only load one at a time. The SPEAKER: Member for Kalgoorlie! Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: The member is the one who does not know what he is talking about. I have now read the incident report that has been provided to me, and I am providing the member with the facts. Mr M.J. Birney interjected. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: The member has not even listened. I have said that the officer loaded the first magazine into the pistol and he loaded the other magazine into his belt. This was essentially the explanation given to me by the Commissioner of Police late yesterday afternoon, and it has been confirmed by an incident briefing note that I have been given. The officer then did something really stupid. He decided to not only depress the trigger but also fully ratchet the appropriate lever on the gun to put it into a firing position, and then he fully depressed the trigger. In those circumstances if the Glock pistol had not fired, we would be asking for our money back. The fact of the matter is that human error cannot be eliminated. Similar instances of human error have occurred with all the other guns. However, we do know that all the professional evidence points to the fact that this gun has more safety mechanisms than any of the alternative guns. It is used by over 600 policing agencies in over 100 countries throughout the world, and it has a reputation as being one of the safest guns available to police services. I do not know whether somebody from one of the other manufacturers is paying the member for Kalgoorlie or what his particular issue is - Withdrawal of Remark Mr C.J. BARNETT: The minister has quite clearly impugned the reputation of the member for Kalgoorlie by implying that he was in receipt of financial benefit for asking questions and pursuing an issue. That is clearly impugning him, Mr Speaker, and I require and request that you call her to order. The SPEAKER: I was listening to what the Minister for Police said. She said that she did not know whether the member was in the employ of somebody. However, it is sailing too close to the wind and I ask the minister to withdraw that comment. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: I apologise, but I am at a loss to understand - Several members interjected. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: I have withdrawn it. I am quite happy to apologise and withdraw if the member is telling me that that is not the case. I fully apologise and withdraw. Questions without Notice Resumed Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: There is a lot of rabble opposite, Mr Speaker. Point of Order Mr R.F. JOHNSON: As I understand it, Mr Speaker, you required the minister to withdraw the comment. Dr G.I. Gallop: She did. Mr R.F. JOHNSON: She has not withdrawn without qualification. Dr G.I. Gallop: She has apologised and withdrawn. Mr R.F. JOHNSON: No, she has not; not without qualification. I draw that to your attention, Mr Speaker. The SPEAKER: The minister has withdrawn and apologised. Questions without Notice Resumed Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: That is quite certainly the case. What puzzles me is why the member for Kalgoorlie has become so obsessed about this issue. The incident that has been referred to is a matter of a gun performing as it is designed to perform. There is no issue with the gun arising out of the incident. There is an issue with the officer. It seems quite unreasonable for members opposite to suggest to me that I should know what the commissioner and the deputy commissioner did not know and what had not been reported to them. I made it quite clear when I gave the answer during the Estimates Committee hearing that the advice from the commissioner was that there had been no accidental discharge. Both the commissioner and the deputy commissioner have assured me that, although it is debatable whether it was an accidental discharge, if they had been aware of the incident, they would have said so at the time and we would have reported it fully in the Parliament. Mr J.N. Hyde interjected. The SPEAKER: Member for Perth!
(3) Will the minister now admit that she misled the Parliament during the Estimates Committee hearings last month when she specifically and repeatedly stated that there had not been any accidental discharges involving the Glock pistols? (4) Is the minister continuing to deny that neither she nor any of the senior police command team that attended the Estimates Committee hearings were aware that a Glock pistol had discharged accidentally? Mrs M.H. ROBERTS replied: (1)-(4) The answer to the first two questions is no. With regard to the third question, I am prepared to put on record what occurred during the Estimates Committee hearings. Quite a number of members were present when the member for Kalgoorlie asked if there had been an accidental discharge of one of the new Glock pistols. I did not know the answer, so I asked the commissioner, who was sitting on my right, and the deputy commissioner, who was sitting on my left - Mr Matthews and Mr Brennan. On Mr Brennan’s left was also one of the assistant commissioners, Dr O’Callaghan, and three other senior police personnel. None of those people was aware that there had been any incident involving an accidental discharge. The member for Kalgoorlie has suggested that I should know more about the day-to-day operations of the Police Service than either the Commissioner of Police or the Deputy Commissioner. Mr M.J. Birney: You have no idea what is happening. You misled Parliament. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: Mr Speaker, I would like the opportunity to explain, which I think I deserve. I was informed by the commissioner yesterday - and he was made aware of the incident for the first time yesterday, when he was advised by Deputy Commissioner Brennan after he had been approached by The West Australian newspaper - Mr R.F. Johnson: Doesn’t that concern you? The SPEAKER: Members. Mr M.J. Birney: You’re the minister! The SPEAKER: I call the member for Kalgoorlie to order. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: Mr Speaker, this is a serious issue and it would be helpful if the member for Kalgoorlie did not try to take over the member for Nedlands’ role of continuing to disrupt question time. This is a serious issue. It is a matter that I do want to explain fully on the record. The fact of the matter is that an incident did occur on 18 April this year. At that time the commissioner was on leave and Mr Bruce Brennan, the deputy commissioner, was acting in that position. I am given to understand that Mr Brennan was not aware of the incident. It is debatable whether this could be called an accidental discharge at all - Mr M.J. Birney interjected. Mr J.N. Hyde: A bloke pulled the trigger! It didn’t go off by itself. The SPEAKER: Members! I call the member for Perth to order for the second time. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: Mr Speaker, I want to explain exactly what the incident involved and then people can come to their own conclusions about it. On 18 April at our central station an officer took from a secure area his allocated Glock pistol. He then took a magazine and loaded that into the pistol and put that in his holster. He got another magazine and loaded it in the appropriate place on his belt. Mr M.J. Birney: He can only load one at a time. The SPEAKER: Member for Kalgoorlie! Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: The member is the one who does not know what he is talking about. I have now read the incident report that has been provided to me, and I am providing the member with the facts. Mr M.J. Birney interjected. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: The member has not even listened. I have said that the officer loaded the first magazine into the pistol and he loaded the other magazine into his belt. This was essentially the explanation given to me by the Commissioner of Police late yesterday afternoon, and it has been confirmed by an incident briefing note that I have been given. The officer then did something really stupid. He decided to not only depress the trigger but also fully ratchet the appropriate lever on the gun to put it into a firing position, and then he fully depressed the trigger. In those circumstances if the Glock pistol had not fired, we would be asking for our money back. The fact of the matter is that human error cannot be eliminated. Similar instances of human error have occurred with all the other guns. However, we do know that all the professional evidence points to the fact that this gun has more safety mechanisms than any of the alternative guns. It is used by over 600 policing agencies in over 100 countries throughout the world, and it has a reputation as being one of the safest guns available to police services. I do not know whether somebody from one of the other manufacturers is paying the member for Kalgoorlie or what his particular issue is - Withdrawal of Remark Mr C.J. BARNETT: The minister has quite clearly impugned the reputation of the member for Kalgoorlie by implying that he was in receipt of financial benefit for asking questions and pursuing an issue. That is clearly impugning him, Mr Speaker, and I require and request that you call her to order. The SPEAKER: I was listening to what the Minister for Police said. She said that she did not know whether the member was in the employ of somebody. However, it is sailing too close to the wind and I ask the minister to withdraw that comment. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: I apologise, but I am at a loss to understand - Several members interjected. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: I have withdrawn it. I am quite happy to apologise and withdraw if the member is telling me that that is not the case. I fully apologise and withdraw. Questions without Notice Resumed Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: There is a lot of rabble opposite, Mr Speaker. Point of Order Mr R.F. JOHNSON: As I understand it, Mr Speaker, you required the minister to withdraw the comment. Dr G.I. Gallop: She did. Mr R.F. JOHNSON: She has not withdrawn without qualification. Dr G.I. Gallop: She has apologised and withdrawn. Mr R.F. JOHNSON: No, she has not; not without qualification. I draw that to your attention, Mr Speaker. The SPEAKER: The minister has withdrawn and apologised. Questions without Notice Resumed Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: That is quite certainly the case. What puzzles me is why the member for Kalgoorlie has become so obsessed about this issue. The incident that has been referred to is a matter of a gun performing as it is designed to perform. There is no issue with the gun arising out of the incident. There is an issue with the officer. It seems quite unreasonable for members opposite to suggest to me that I should know what the commissioner and the deputy commissioner did not know and what had not been reported to them. I made it quite clear when I gave the answer during the Estimates Committee hearing that the advice from the commissioner was that there had been no accidental discharge. Both the commissioner and the deputy commissioner have assured me that, although it is debatable whether it was an accidental discharge, if they had been aware of the incident, they would have said so at the time and we would have reported it fully in the Parliament. Mr J.N. Hyde interjected. The SPEAKER: Member for Perth!
(4) Is the minister continuing to deny that neither she nor any of the senior police command team that attended the Estimates Committee hearings were aware that a Glock pistol had discharged accidentally? Mrs M.H. ROBERTS replied: (1)-(4) The answer to the first two questions is no. With regard to the third question, I am prepared to put on record what occurred during the Estimates Committee hearings. Quite a number of members were present when the member for Kalgoorlie asked if there had been an accidental discharge of one of the new Glock pistols. I did not know the answer, so I asked the commissioner, who was sitting on my right, and the deputy commissioner, who was sitting on my left - Mr Matthews and Mr Brennan. On Mr Brennan’s left was also one of the assistant commissioners, Dr O’Callaghan, and three other senior police personnel. None of those people was aware that there had been any incident involving an accidental discharge. The member for Kalgoorlie has suggested that I should know more about the day-to-day operations of the Police Service than either the Commissioner of Police or the Deputy Commissioner. Mr M.J. Birney: You have no idea what is happening. You misled Parliament. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: Mr Speaker, I would like the opportunity to explain, which I think I deserve. I was informed by the commissioner yesterday - and he was made aware of the incident for the first time yesterday, when he was advised by Deputy Commissioner Brennan after he had been approached by The West Australian newspaper - Mr R.F. Johnson: Doesn’t that concern you? The SPEAKER: Members. Mr M.J. Birney: You’re the minister! The SPEAKER: I call the member for Kalgoorlie to order. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: Mr Speaker, this is a serious issue and it would be helpful if the member for Kalgoorlie did not try to take over the member for Nedlands’ role of continuing to disrupt question time. This is a serious issue. It is a matter that I do want to explain fully on the record. The fact of the matter is that an incident did occur on 18 April this year. At that time the commissioner was on leave and Mr Bruce Brennan, the deputy commissioner, was acting in that position. I am given to understand that Mr Brennan was not aware of the incident. It is debatable whether this could be called an accidental discharge at all - Mr M.J. Birney interjected. Mr J.N. Hyde: A bloke pulled the trigger! It didn’t go off by itself. The SPEAKER: Members! I call the member for Perth to order for the second time. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: Mr Speaker, I want to explain exactly what the incident involved and then people can come to their own conclusions about it. On 18 April at our central station an officer took from a secure area his allocated Glock pistol. He then took a magazine and loaded that into the pistol and put that in his holster. He got another magazine and loaded it in the appropriate place on his belt. Mr M.J. Birney: He can only load one at a time. The SPEAKER: Member for Kalgoorlie! Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: The member is the one who does not know what he is talking about. I have now read the incident report that has been provided to me, and I am providing the member with the facts. Mr M.J. Birney interjected. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: The member has not even listened. I have said that the officer loaded the first magazine into the pistol and he loaded the other magazine into his belt. This was essentially the explanation given to me by the Commissioner of Police late yesterday afternoon, and it has been confirmed by an incident briefing note that I have been given. The officer then did something really stupid. He decided to not only depress the trigger but also fully ratchet the appropriate lever on the gun to put it into a firing position, and then he fully depressed the trigger. In those circumstances if the Glock pistol had not fired, we would be asking for our money back. The fact of the matter is that human error cannot be eliminated. Similar instances of human error have occurred with all the other guns. However, we do know that all the professional evidence points to the fact that this gun has more safety mechanisms than any of the alternative guns. It is used by over 600 policing agencies in over 100 countries throughout the world, and it has a reputation as being one of the safest guns available to police services. I do not know whether somebody from one of the other manufacturers is paying the member for Kalgoorlie or what his particular issue is - Withdrawal of Remark Mr C.J. BARNETT: The minister has quite clearly impugned the reputation of the member for Kalgoorlie by implying that he was in receipt of financial benefit for asking questions and pursuing an issue. That is clearly impugning him, Mr Speaker, and I require and request that you call her to order. The SPEAKER: I was listening to what the Minister for Police said. She said that she did not know whether the member was in the employ of somebody. However, it is sailing too close to the wind and I ask the minister to withdraw that comment. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: I apologise, but I am at a loss to understand - Several members interjected. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: I have withdrawn it. I am quite happy to apologise and withdraw if the member is telling me that that is not the case. I fully apologise and withdraw. Questions without Notice Resumed Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: There is a lot of rabble opposite, Mr Speaker. Point of Order Mr R.F. JOHNSON: As I understand it, Mr Speaker, you required the minister to withdraw the comment. Dr G.I. Gallop: She did. Mr R.F. JOHNSON: She has not withdrawn without qualification. Dr G.I. Gallop: She has apologised and withdrawn. Mr R.F. JOHNSON: No, she has not; not without qualification. I draw that to your attention, Mr Speaker. The SPEAKER: The minister has withdrawn and apologised. Questions without Notice Resumed Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: That is quite certainly the case. What puzzles me is why the member for Kalgoorlie has become so obsessed about this issue. The incident that has been referred to is a matter of a gun performing as it is designed to perform. There is no issue with the gun arising out of the incident. There is an issue with the officer. It seems quite unreasonable for members opposite to suggest to me that I should know what the commissioner and the deputy commissioner did not know and what had not been reported to them. I made it quite clear when I gave the answer during the Estimates Committee hearing that the advice from the commissioner was that there had been no accidental discharge. Both the commissioner and the deputy commissioner have assured me that, although it is debatable whether it was an accidental discharge, if they had been aware of the incident, they would have said so at the time and we would have reported it fully in the Parliament. Mr J.N. Hyde interjected. The SPEAKER: Member for Perth!
Mrs M.H. ROBERTS replied: (1)-(4) The answer to the first two questions is no. With regard to the third question, I am prepared to put on record what occurred during the Estimates Committee hearings. Quite a number of members were present when the member for Kalgoorlie asked if there had been an accidental discharge of one of the new Glock pistols. I did not know the answer, so I asked the commissioner, who was sitting on my right, and the deputy commissioner, who was sitting on my left - Mr Matthews and Mr Brennan. On Mr Brennan’s left was also one of the assistant commissioners, Dr O’Callaghan, and three other senior police personnel. None of those people was aware that there had been any incident involving an accidental discharge. The member for Kalgoorlie has suggested that I should know more about the day-to-day operations of the Police Service than either the Commissioner of Police or the Deputy Commissioner. Mr M.J. Birney: You have no idea what is happening. You misled Parliament. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: Mr Speaker, I would like the opportunity to explain, which I think I deserve. I was informed by the commissioner yesterday - and he was made aware of the incident for the first time yesterday, when he was advised by Deputy Commissioner Brennan after he had been approached by The West Australian newspaper - Mr R.F. Johnson: Doesn’t that concern you? The SPEAKER: Members. Mr M.J. Birney: You’re the minister! The SPEAKER: I call the member for Kalgoorlie to order. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: Mr Speaker, this is a serious issue and it would be helpful if the member for Kalgoorlie did not try to take over the member for Nedlands’ role of continuing to disrupt question time. This is a serious issue. It is a matter that I do want to explain fully on the record. The fact of the matter is that an incident did occur on 18 April this year. At that time the commissioner was on leave and Mr Bruce Brennan, the deputy commissioner, was acting in that position. I am given to understand that Mr Brennan was not aware of the incident. It is debatable whether this could be called an accidental discharge at all - Mr M.J. Birney interjected. Mr J.N. Hyde: A bloke pulled the trigger! It didn’t go off by itself. The SPEAKER: Members! I call the member for Perth to order for the second time. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: Mr Speaker, I want to explain exactly what the incident involved and then people can come to their own conclusions about it. On 18 April at our central station an officer took from a secure area his allocated Glock pistol. He then took a magazine and loaded that into the pistol and put that in his holster. He got another magazine and loaded it in the appropriate place on his belt. Mr M.J. Birney: He can only load one at a time. The SPEAKER: Member for Kalgoorlie! Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: The member is the one who does not know what he is talking about. I have now read the incident report that has been provided to me, and I am providing the member with the facts. Mr M.J. Birney interjected. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: The member has not even listened. I have said that the officer loaded the first magazine into the pistol and he loaded the other magazine into his belt. This was essentially the explanation given to me by the Commissioner of Police late yesterday afternoon, and it has been confirmed by an incident briefing note that I have been given. The officer then did something really stupid. He decided to not only depress the trigger but also fully ratchet the appropriate lever on the gun to put it into a firing position, and then he fully depressed the trigger. In those circumstances if the Glock pistol had not fired, we would be asking for our money back. The fact of the matter is that human error cannot be eliminated. Similar instances of human error have occurred with all the other guns. However, we do know that all the professional evidence points to the fact that this gun has more safety mechanisms than any of the alternative guns. It is used by over 600 policing agencies in over 100 countries throughout the world, and it has a reputation as being one of the safest guns available to police services. I do not know whether somebody from one of the other manufacturers is paying the member for Kalgoorlie or what his particular issue is - Withdrawal of Remark Mr C.J. BARNETT: The minister has quite clearly impugned the reputation of the member for Kalgoorlie by implying that he was in receipt of financial benefit for asking questions and pursuing an issue. That is clearly impugning him, Mr Speaker, and I require and request that you call her to order. The SPEAKER: I was listening to what the Minister for Police said. She said that she did not know whether the member was in the employ of somebody. However, it is sailing too close to the wind and I ask the minister to withdraw that comment. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: I apologise, but I am at a loss to understand - Several members interjected. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: I have withdrawn it. I am quite happy to apologise and withdraw if the member is telling me that that is not the case. I fully apologise and withdraw. Questions without Notice Resumed Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: There is a lot of rabble opposite, Mr Speaker. Point of Order Mr R.F. JOHNSON: As I understand it, Mr Speaker, you required the minister to withdraw the comment. Dr G.I. Gallop: She did. Mr R.F. JOHNSON: She has not withdrawn without qualification. Dr G.I. Gallop: She has apologised and withdrawn. Mr R.F. JOHNSON: No, she has not; not without qualification. I draw that to your attention, Mr Speaker. The SPEAKER: The minister has withdrawn and apologised. Questions without Notice Resumed Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: That is quite certainly the case. What puzzles me is why the member for Kalgoorlie has become so obsessed about this issue. The incident that has been referred to is a matter of a gun performing as it is designed to perform. There is no issue with the gun arising out of the incident. There is an issue with the officer. It seems quite unreasonable for members opposite to suggest to me that I should know what the commissioner and the deputy commissioner did not know and what had not been reported to them. I made it quite clear when I gave the answer during the Estimates Committee hearing that the advice from the commissioner was that there had been no accidental discharge. Both the commissioner and the deputy commissioner have assured me that, although it is debatable whether it was an accidental discharge, if they had been aware of the incident, they would have said so at the time and we would have reported it fully in the Parliament. Mr J.N. Hyde interjected. The SPEAKER: Member for Perth!
(1)-(4) The answer to the first two questions is no. With regard to the third question, I am prepared to put on record what occurred during the Estimates Committee hearings. Quite a number of members were present when the member for Kalgoorlie asked if there had been an accidental discharge of one of the new Glock pistols. I did not know the answer, so I asked the commissioner, who was sitting on my right, and the deputy commissioner, who was sitting on my left - Mr Matthews and Mr Brennan. On Mr Brennan’s left was also one of the assistant commissioners, Dr O’Callaghan, and three other senior police personnel. None of those people was aware that there had been any incident involving an accidental discharge. The member for Kalgoorlie has suggested that I should know more about the day-to-day operations of the Police Service than either the Commissioner of Police or the Deputy Commissioner. Mr M.J. Birney: You have no idea what is happening. You misled Parliament. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: Mr Speaker, I would like the opportunity to explain, which I think I deserve. I was informed by the commissioner yesterday - and he was made aware of the incident for the first time yesterday, when he was advised by Deputy Commissioner Brennan after he had been approached by The West Australian newspaper - Mr R.F. Johnson: Doesn’t that concern you? The SPEAKER: Members. Mr M.J. Birney: You’re the minister! The SPEAKER: I call the member for Kalgoorlie to order. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: Mr Speaker, this is a serious issue and it would be helpful if the member for Kalgoorlie did not try to take over the member for Nedlands’ role of continuing to disrupt question time. This is a serious issue. It is a matter that I do want to explain fully on the record. The fact of the matter is that an incident did occur on 18 April this year. At that time the commissioner was on leave and Mr Bruce Brennan, the deputy commissioner, was acting in that position. I am given to understand that Mr Brennan was not aware of the incident. It is debatable whether this could be called an accidental discharge at all - Mr M.J. Birney interjected. Mr J.N. Hyde: A bloke pulled the trigger! It didn’t go off by itself. The SPEAKER: Members! I call the member for Perth to order for the second time. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: Mr Speaker, I want to explain exactly what the incident involved and then people can come to their own conclusions about it. On 18 April at our central station an officer took from a secure area his allocated Glock pistol. He then took a magazine and loaded that into the pistol and put that in his holster. He got another magazine and loaded it in the appropriate place on his belt. Mr M.J. Birney: He can only load one at a time. The SPEAKER: Member for Kalgoorlie! Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: The member is the one who does not know what he is talking about. I have now read the incident report that has been provided to me, and I am providing the member with the facts. Mr M.J. Birney interjected. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: The member has not even listened. I have said that the officer loaded the first magazine into the pistol and he loaded the other magazine into his belt. This was essentially the explanation given to me by the Commissioner of Police late yesterday afternoon, and it has been confirmed by an incident briefing note that I have been given. The officer then did something really stupid. He decided to not only depress the trigger but also fully ratchet the appropriate lever on the gun to put it into a firing position, and then he fully depressed the trigger. In those circumstances if the Glock pistol had not fired, we would be asking for our money back. The fact of the matter is that human error cannot be eliminated. Similar instances of human error have occurred with all the other guns. However, we do know that all the professional evidence points to the fact that this gun has more safety mechanisms than any of the alternative guns. It is used by over 600 policing agencies in over 100 countries throughout the world, and it has a reputation as being one of the safest guns available to police services. I do not know whether somebody from one of the other manufacturers is paying the member for Kalgoorlie or what his particular issue is - Withdrawal of Remark Mr C.J. BARNETT: The minister has quite clearly impugned the reputation of the member for Kalgoorlie by implying that he was in receipt of financial benefit for asking questions and pursuing an issue. That is clearly impugning him, Mr Speaker, and I require and request that you call her to order. The SPEAKER: I was listening to what the Minister for Police said. She said that she did not know whether the member was in the employ of somebody. However, it is sailing too close to the wind and I ask the minister to withdraw that comment. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: I apologise, but I am at a loss to understand - Several members interjected. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: I have withdrawn it. I am quite happy to apologise and withdraw if the member is telling me that that is not the case. I fully apologise and withdraw. Questions without Notice Resumed Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: There is a lot of rabble opposite, Mr Speaker. Point of Order Mr R.F. JOHNSON: As I understand it, Mr Speaker, you required the minister to withdraw the comment. Dr G.I. Gallop: She did. Mr R.F. JOHNSON: She has not withdrawn without qualification. Dr G.I. Gallop: She has apologised and withdrawn. Mr R.F. JOHNSON: No, she has not; not without qualification. I draw that to your attention, Mr Speaker. The SPEAKER: The minister has withdrawn and apologised. Questions without Notice Resumed Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: That is quite certainly the case. What puzzles me is why the member for Kalgoorlie has become so obsessed about this issue. The incident that has been referred to is a matter of a gun performing as it is designed to perform. There is no issue with the gun arising out of the incident. There is an issue with the officer. It seems quite unreasonable for members opposite to suggest to me that I should know what the commissioner and the deputy commissioner did not know and what had not been reported to them. I made it quite clear when I gave the answer during the Estimates Committee hearing that the advice from the commissioner was that there had been no accidental discharge. Both the commissioner and the deputy commissioner have assured me that, although it is debatable whether it was an accidental discharge, if they had been aware of the incident, they would have said so at the time and we would have reported it fully in the Parliament. Mr J.N. Hyde interjected. The SPEAKER: Member for Perth!
Mr M.J. Birney: You have no idea what is happening. You misled Parliament. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: Mr Speaker, I would like the opportunity to explain, which I think I deserve. I was informed by the commissioner yesterday - and he was made aware of the incident for the first time yesterday, when he was advised by Deputy Commissioner Brennan after he had been approached by The West Australian newspaper - Mr R.F. Johnson: Doesn’t that concern you? The SPEAKER: Members. Mr M.J. Birney: You’re the minister! The SPEAKER: I call the member for Kalgoorlie to order. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: Mr Speaker, this is a serious issue and it would be helpful if the member for Kalgoorlie did not try to take over the member for Nedlands’ role of continuing to disrupt question time. This is a serious issue. It is a matter that I do want to explain fully on the record. The fact of the matter is that an incident did occur on 18 April this year. At that time the commissioner was on leave and Mr Bruce Brennan, the deputy commissioner, was acting in that position. I am given to understand that Mr Brennan was not aware of the incident. It is debatable whether this could be called an accidental discharge at all - Mr M.J. Birney interjected. Mr J.N. Hyde: A bloke pulled the trigger! It didn’t go off by itself. The SPEAKER: Members! I call the member for Perth to order for the second time. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: Mr Speaker, I want to explain exactly what the incident involved and then people can come to their own conclusions about it. On 18 April at our central station an officer took from a secure area his allocated Glock pistol. He then took a magazine and loaded that into the pistol and put that in his holster. He got another magazine and loaded it in the appropriate place on his belt. Mr M.J. Birney: He can only load one at a time. The SPEAKER: Member for Kalgoorlie! Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: The member is the one who does not know what he is talking about. I have now read the incident report that has been provided to me, and I am providing the member with the facts. Mr M.J. Birney interjected. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: The member has not even listened. I have said that the officer loaded the first magazine into the pistol and he loaded the other magazine into his belt. This was essentially the explanation given to me by the Commissioner of Police late yesterday afternoon, and it has been confirmed by an incident briefing note that I have been given. The officer then did something really stupid. He decided to not only depress the trigger but also fully ratchet the appropriate lever on the gun to put it into a firing position, and then he fully depressed the trigger. In those circumstances if the Glock pistol had not fired, we would be asking for our money back. The fact of the matter is that human error cannot be eliminated. Similar instances of human error have occurred with all the other guns. However, we do know that all the professional evidence points to the fact that this gun has more safety mechanisms than any of the alternative guns. It is used by over 600 policing agencies in over 100 countries throughout the world, and it has a reputation as being one of the safest guns available to police services. I do not know whether somebody from one of the other manufacturers is paying the member for Kalgoorlie or what his particular issue is - Withdrawal of Remark Mr C.J. BARNETT: The minister has quite clearly impugned the reputation of the member for Kalgoorlie by implying that he was in receipt of financial benefit for asking questions and pursuing an issue. That is clearly impugning him, Mr Speaker, and I require and request that you call her to order. The SPEAKER: I was listening to what the Minister for Police said. She said that she did not know whether the member was in the employ of somebody. However, it is sailing too close to the wind and I ask the minister to withdraw that comment. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: I apologise, but I am at a loss to understand - Several members interjected. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: I have withdrawn it. I am quite happy to apologise and withdraw if the member is telling me that that is not the case. I fully apologise and withdraw. Questions without Notice Resumed Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: There is a lot of rabble opposite, Mr Speaker. Point of Order Mr R.F. JOHNSON: As I understand it, Mr Speaker, you required the minister to withdraw the comment. Dr G.I. Gallop: She did. Mr R.F. JOHNSON: She has not withdrawn without qualification. Dr G.I. Gallop: She has apologised and withdrawn. Mr R.F. JOHNSON: No, she has not; not without qualification. I draw that to your attention, Mr Speaker. The SPEAKER: The minister has withdrawn and apologised. Questions without Notice Resumed Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: That is quite certainly the case. What puzzles me is why the member for Kalgoorlie has become so obsessed about this issue. The incident that has been referred to is a matter of a gun performing as it is designed to perform. There is no issue with the gun arising out of the incident. There is an issue with the officer. It seems quite unreasonable for members opposite to suggest to me that I should know what the commissioner and the deputy commissioner did not know and what had not been reported to them. I made it quite clear when I gave the answer during the Estimates Committee hearing that the advice from the commissioner was that there had been no accidental discharge. Both the commissioner and the deputy commissioner have assured me that, although it is debatable whether it was an accidental discharge, if they had been aware of the incident, they would have said so at the time and we would have reported it fully in the Parliament. Mr J.N. Hyde interjected. The SPEAKER: Member for Perth!
Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: Mr Speaker, I would like the opportunity to explain, which I think I deserve. I was informed by the commissioner yesterday - and he was made aware of the incident for the first time yesterday, when he was advised by Deputy Commissioner Brennan after he had been approached by The West Australian newspaper - Mr R.F. Johnson: Doesn’t that concern you? The SPEAKER: Members. Mr M.J. Birney: You’re the minister! The SPEAKER: I call the member for Kalgoorlie to order. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: Mr Speaker, this is a serious issue and it would be helpful if the member for Kalgoorlie did not try to take over the member for Nedlands’ role of continuing to disrupt question time. This is a serious issue. It is a matter that I do want to explain fully on the record. The fact of the matter is that an incident did occur on 18 April this year. At that time the commissioner was on leave and Mr Bruce Brennan, the deputy commissioner, was acting in that position. I am given to understand that Mr Brennan was not aware of the incident. It is debatable whether this could be called an accidental discharge at all - Mr M.J. Birney interjected. Mr J.N. Hyde: A bloke pulled the trigger! It didn’t go off by itself. The SPEAKER: Members! I call the member for Perth to order for the second time. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: Mr Speaker, I want to explain exactly what the incident involved and then people can come to their own conclusions about it. On 18 April at our central station an officer took from a secure area his allocated Glock pistol. He then took a magazine and loaded that into the pistol and put that in his holster. He got another magazine and loaded it in the appropriate place on his belt. Mr M.J. Birney: He can only load one at a time. The SPEAKER: Member for Kalgoorlie! Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: The member is the one who does not know what he is talking about. I have now read the incident report that has been provided to me, and I am providing the member with the facts. Mr M.J. Birney interjected. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: The member has not even listened. I have said that the officer loaded the first magazine into the pistol and he loaded the other magazine into his belt. This was essentially the explanation given to me by the Commissioner of Police late yesterday afternoon, and it has been confirmed by an incident briefing note that I have been given. The officer then did something really stupid. He decided to not only depress the trigger but also fully ratchet the appropriate lever on the gun to put it into a firing position, and then he fully depressed the trigger. In those circumstances if the Glock pistol had not fired, we would be asking for our money back. The fact of the matter is that human error cannot be eliminated. Similar instances of human error have occurred with all the other guns. However, we do know that all the professional evidence points to the fact that this gun has more safety mechanisms than any of the alternative guns. It is used by over 600 policing agencies in over 100 countries throughout the world, and it has a reputation as being one of the safest guns available to police services. I do not know whether somebody from one of the other manufacturers is paying the member for Kalgoorlie or what his particular issue is - Withdrawal of Remark Mr C.J. BARNETT: The minister has quite clearly impugned the reputation of the member for Kalgoorlie by implying that he was in receipt of financial benefit for asking questions and pursuing an issue. That is clearly impugning him, Mr Speaker, and I require and request that you call her to order. The SPEAKER: I was listening to what the Minister for Police said. She said that she did not know whether the member was in the employ of somebody. However, it is sailing too close to the wind and I ask the minister to withdraw that comment. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: I apologise, but I am at a loss to understand - Several members interjected. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: I have withdrawn it. I am quite happy to apologise and withdraw if the member is telling me that that is not the case. I fully apologise and withdraw. Questions without Notice Resumed Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: There is a lot of rabble opposite, Mr Speaker. Point of Order Mr R.F. JOHNSON: As I understand it, Mr Speaker, you required the minister to withdraw the comment. Dr G.I. Gallop: She did. Mr R.F. JOHNSON: She has not withdrawn without qualification. Dr G.I. Gallop: She has apologised and withdrawn. Mr R.F. JOHNSON: No, she has not; not without qualification. I draw that to your attention, Mr Speaker. The SPEAKER: The minister has withdrawn and apologised. Questions without Notice Resumed Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: That is quite certainly the case. What puzzles me is why the member for Kalgoorlie has become so obsessed about this issue. The incident that has been referred to is a matter of a gun performing as it is designed to perform. There is no issue with the gun arising out of the incident. There is an issue with the officer. It seems quite unreasonable for members opposite to suggest to me that I should know what the commissioner and the deputy commissioner did not know and what had not been reported to them. I made it quite clear when I gave the answer during the Estimates Committee hearing that the advice from the commissioner was that there had been no accidental discharge. Both the commissioner and the deputy commissioner have assured me that, although it is debatable whether it was an accidental discharge, if they had been aware of the incident, they would have said so at the time and we would have reported it fully in the Parliament. Mr J.N. Hyde interjected. The SPEAKER: Member for Perth!
Mr R.F. Johnson: Doesn’t that concern you? The SPEAKER: Members. Mr M.J. Birney: You’re the minister! The SPEAKER: I call the member for Kalgoorlie to order. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: Mr Speaker, this is a serious issue and it would be helpful if the member for Kalgoorlie did not try to take over the member for Nedlands’ role of continuing to disrupt question time. This is a serious issue. It is a matter that I do want to explain fully on the record. The fact of the matter is that an incident did occur on 18 April this year. At that time the commissioner was on leave and Mr Bruce Brennan, the deputy commissioner, was acting in that position. I am given to understand that Mr Brennan was not aware of the incident. It is debatable whether this could be called an accidental discharge at all - Mr M.J. Birney interjected. Mr J.N. Hyde: A bloke pulled the trigger! It didn’t go off by itself. The SPEAKER: Members! I call the member for Perth to order for the second time. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: Mr Speaker, I want to explain exactly what the incident involved and then people can come to their own conclusions about it. On 18 April at our central station an officer took from a secure area his allocated Glock pistol. He then took a magazine and loaded that into the pistol and put that in his holster. He got another magazine and loaded it in the appropriate place on his belt. Mr M.J. Birney: He can only load one at a time. The SPEAKER: Member for Kalgoorlie! Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: The member is the one who does not know what he is talking about. I have now read the incident report that has been provided to me, and I am providing the member with the facts. Mr M.J. Birney interjected. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: The member has not even listened. I have said that the officer loaded the first magazine into the pistol and he loaded the other magazine into his belt. This was essentially the explanation given to me by the Commissioner of Police late yesterday afternoon, and it has been confirmed by an incident briefing note that I have been given. The officer then did something really stupid. He decided to not only depress the trigger but also fully ratchet the appropriate lever on the gun to put it into a firing position, and then he fully depressed the trigger. In those circumstances if the Glock pistol had not fired, we would be asking for our money back. The fact of the matter is that human error cannot be eliminated. Similar instances of human error have occurred with all the other guns. However, we do know that all the professional evidence points to the fact that this gun has more safety mechanisms than any of the alternative guns. It is used by over 600 policing agencies in over 100 countries throughout the world, and it has a reputation as being one of the safest guns available to police services. I do not know whether somebody from one of the other manufacturers is paying the member for Kalgoorlie or what his particular issue is - Withdrawal of Remark Mr C.J. BARNETT: The minister has quite clearly impugned the reputation of the member for Kalgoorlie by implying that he was in receipt of financial benefit for asking questions and pursuing an issue. That is clearly impugning him, Mr Speaker, and I require and request that you call her to order. The SPEAKER: I was listening to what the Minister for Police said. She said that she did not know whether the member was in the employ of somebody. However, it is sailing too close to the wind and I ask the minister to withdraw that comment. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: I apologise, but I am at a loss to understand - Several members interjected. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: I have withdrawn it. I am quite happy to apologise and withdraw if the member is telling me that that is not the case. I fully apologise and withdraw. Questions without Notice Resumed Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: There is a lot of rabble opposite, Mr Speaker. Point of Order Mr R.F. JOHNSON: As I understand it, Mr Speaker, you required the minister to withdraw the comment. Dr G.I. Gallop: She did. Mr R.F. JOHNSON: She has not withdrawn without qualification. Dr G.I. Gallop: She has apologised and withdrawn. Mr R.F. JOHNSON: No, she has not; not without qualification. I draw that to your attention, Mr Speaker. The SPEAKER: The minister has withdrawn and apologised. Questions without Notice Resumed Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: That is quite certainly the case. What puzzles me is why the member for Kalgoorlie has become so obsessed about this issue. The incident that has been referred to is a matter of a gun performing as it is designed to perform. There is no issue with the gun arising out of the incident. There is an issue with the officer. It seems quite unreasonable for members opposite to suggest to me that I should know what the commissioner and the deputy commissioner did not know and what had not been reported to them. I made it quite clear when I gave the answer during the Estimates Committee hearing that the advice from the commissioner was that there had been no accidental discharge. Both the commissioner and the deputy commissioner have assured me that, although it is debatable whether it was an accidental discharge, if they had been aware of the incident, they would have said so at the time and we would have reported it fully in the Parliament. Mr J.N. Hyde interjected. The SPEAKER: Member for Perth!
The SPEAKER: Members. Mr M.J. Birney: You’re the minister! The SPEAKER: I call the member for Kalgoorlie to order. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: Mr Speaker, this is a serious issue and it would be helpful if the member for Kalgoorlie did not try to take over the member for Nedlands’ role of continuing to disrupt question time. This is a serious issue. It is a matter that I do want to explain fully on the record. The fact of the matter is that an incident did occur on 18 April this year. At that time the commissioner was on leave and Mr Bruce Brennan, the deputy commissioner, was acting in that position. I am given to understand that Mr Brennan was not aware of the incident. It is debatable whether this could be called an accidental discharge at all - Mr M.J. Birney interjected. Mr J.N. Hyde: A bloke pulled the trigger! It didn’t go off by itself. The SPEAKER: Members! I call the member for Perth to order for the second time. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: Mr Speaker, I want to explain exactly what the incident involved and then people can come to their own conclusions about it. On 18 April at our central station an officer took from a secure area his allocated Glock pistol. He then took a magazine and loaded that into the pistol and put that in his holster. He got another magazine and loaded it in the appropriate place on his belt. Mr M.J. Birney: He can only load one at a time. The SPEAKER: Member for Kalgoorlie! Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: The member is the one who does not know what he is talking about. I have now read the incident report that has been provided to me, and I am providing the member with the facts. Mr M.J. Birney interjected. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: The member has not even listened. I have said that the officer loaded the first magazine into the pistol and he loaded the other magazine into his belt. This was essentially the explanation given to me by the Commissioner of Police late yesterday afternoon, and it has been confirmed by an incident briefing note that I have been given. The officer then did something really stupid. He decided to not only depress the trigger but also fully ratchet the appropriate lever on the gun to put it into a firing position, and then he fully depressed the trigger. In those circumstances if the Glock pistol had not fired, we would be asking for our money back. The fact of the matter is that human error cannot be eliminated. Similar instances of human error have occurred with all the other guns. However, we do know that all the professional evidence points to the fact that this gun has more safety mechanisms than any of the alternative guns. It is used by over 600 policing agencies in over 100 countries throughout the world, and it has a reputation as being one of the safest guns available to police services. I do not know whether somebody from one of the other manufacturers is paying the member for Kalgoorlie or what his particular issue is - Withdrawal of Remark Mr C.J. BARNETT: The minister has quite clearly impugned the reputation of the member for Kalgoorlie by implying that he was in receipt of financial benefit for asking questions and pursuing an issue. That is clearly impugning him, Mr Speaker, and I require and request that you call her to order. The SPEAKER: I was listening to what the Minister for Police said. She said that she did not know whether the member was in the employ of somebody. However, it is sailing too close to the wind and I ask the minister to withdraw that comment. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: I apologise, but I am at a loss to understand - Several members interjected. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: I have withdrawn it. I am quite happy to apologise and withdraw if the member is telling me that that is not the case. I fully apologise and withdraw. Questions without Notice Resumed Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: There is a lot of rabble opposite, Mr Speaker. Point of Order Mr R.F. JOHNSON: As I understand it, Mr Speaker, you required the minister to withdraw the comment. Dr G.I. Gallop: She did. Mr R.F. JOHNSON: She has not withdrawn without qualification. Dr G.I. Gallop: She has apologised and withdrawn. Mr R.F. JOHNSON: No, she has not; not without qualification. I draw that to your attention, Mr Speaker. The SPEAKER: The minister has withdrawn and apologised. Questions without Notice Resumed Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: That is quite certainly the case. What puzzles me is why the member for Kalgoorlie has become so obsessed about this issue. The incident that has been referred to is a matter of a gun performing as it is designed to perform. There is no issue with the gun arising out of the incident. There is an issue with the officer. It seems quite unreasonable for members opposite to suggest to me that I should know what the commissioner and the deputy commissioner did not know and what had not been reported to them. I made it quite clear when I gave the answer during the Estimates Committee hearing that the advice from the commissioner was that there had been no accidental discharge. Both the commissioner and the deputy commissioner have assured me that, although it is debatable whether it was an accidental discharge, if they had been aware of the incident, they would have said so at the time and we would have reported it fully in the Parliament. Mr J.N. Hyde interjected. The SPEAKER: Member for Perth!
Mr M.J. Birney: You’re the minister! The SPEAKER: I call the member for Kalgoorlie to order. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: Mr Speaker, this is a serious issue and it would be helpful if the member for Kalgoorlie did not try to take over the member for Nedlands’ role of continuing to disrupt question time. This is a serious issue. It is a matter that I do want to explain fully on the record. The fact of the matter is that an incident did occur on 18 April this year. At that time the commissioner was on leave and Mr Bruce Brennan, the deputy commissioner, was acting in that position. I am given to understand that Mr Brennan was not aware of the incident. It is debatable whether this could be called an accidental discharge at all - Mr M.J. Birney interjected. Mr J.N. Hyde: A bloke pulled the trigger! It didn’t go off by itself. The SPEAKER: Members! I call the member for Perth to order for the second time. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: Mr Speaker, I want to explain exactly what the incident involved and then people can come to their own conclusions about it. On 18 April at our central station an officer took from a secure area his allocated Glock pistol. He then took a magazine and loaded that into the pistol and put that in his holster. He got another magazine and loaded it in the appropriate place on his belt. Mr M.J. Birney: He can only load one at a time. The SPEAKER: Member for Kalgoorlie! Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: The member is the one who does not know what he is talking about. I have now read the incident report that has been provided to me, and I am providing the member with the facts. Mr M.J. Birney interjected. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: The member has not even listened. I have said that the officer loaded the first magazine into the pistol and he loaded the other magazine into his belt. This was essentially the explanation given to me by the Commissioner of Police late yesterday afternoon, and it has been confirmed by an incident briefing note that I have been given. The officer then did something really stupid. He decided to not only depress the trigger but also fully ratchet the appropriate lever on the gun to put it into a firing position, and then he fully depressed the trigger. In those circumstances if the Glock pistol had not fired, we would be asking for our money back. The fact of the matter is that human error cannot be eliminated. Similar instances of human error have occurred with all the other guns. However, we do know that all the professional evidence points to the fact that this gun has more safety mechanisms than any of the alternative guns. It is used by over 600 policing agencies in over 100 countries throughout the world, and it has a reputation as being one of the safest guns available to police services. I do not know whether somebody from one of the other manufacturers is paying the member for Kalgoorlie or what his particular issue is - Withdrawal of Remark Mr C.J. BARNETT: The minister has quite clearly impugned the reputation of the member for Kalgoorlie by implying that he was in receipt of financial benefit for asking questions and pursuing an issue. That is clearly impugning him, Mr Speaker, and I require and request that you call her to order. The SPEAKER: I was listening to what the Minister for Police said. She said that she did not know whether the member was in the employ of somebody. However, it is sailing too close to the wind and I ask the minister to withdraw that comment. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: I apologise, but I am at a loss to understand - Several members interjected. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: I have withdrawn it. I am quite happy to apologise and withdraw if the member is telling me that that is not the case. I fully apologise and withdraw. Questions without Notice Resumed Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: There is a lot of rabble opposite, Mr Speaker. Point of Order Mr R.F. JOHNSON: As I understand it, Mr Speaker, you required the minister to withdraw the comment. Dr G.I. Gallop: She did. Mr R.F. JOHNSON: She has not withdrawn without qualification. Dr G.I. Gallop: She has apologised and withdrawn. Mr R.F. JOHNSON: No, she has not; not without qualification. I draw that to your attention, Mr Speaker. The SPEAKER: The minister has withdrawn and apologised. Questions without Notice Resumed Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: That is quite certainly the case. What puzzles me is why the member for Kalgoorlie has become so obsessed about this issue. The incident that has been referred to is a matter of a gun performing as it is designed to perform. There is no issue with the gun arising out of the incident. There is an issue with the officer. It seems quite unreasonable for members opposite to suggest to me that I should know what the commissioner and the deputy commissioner did not know and what had not been reported to them. I made it quite clear when I gave the answer during the Estimates Committee hearing that the advice from the commissioner was that there had been no accidental discharge. Both the commissioner and the deputy commissioner have assured me that, although it is debatable whether it was an accidental discharge, if they had been aware of the incident, they would have said so at the time and we would have reported it fully in the Parliament. Mr J.N. Hyde interjected. The SPEAKER: Member for Perth!
The SPEAKER: I call the member for Kalgoorlie to order. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: Mr Speaker, this is a serious issue and it would be helpful if the member for Kalgoorlie did not try to take over the member for Nedlands’ role of continuing to disrupt question time. This is a serious issue. It is a matter that I do want to explain fully on the record. The fact of the matter is that an incident did occur on 18 April this year. At that time the commissioner was on leave and Mr Bruce Brennan, the deputy commissioner, was acting in that position. I am given to understand that Mr Brennan was not aware of the incident. It is debatable whether this could be called an accidental discharge at all - Mr M.J. Birney interjected. Mr J.N. Hyde: A bloke pulled the trigger! It didn’t go off by itself. The SPEAKER: Members! I call the member for Perth to order for the second time. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: Mr Speaker, I want to explain exactly what the incident involved and then people can come to their own conclusions about it. On 18 April at our central station an officer took from a secure area his allocated Glock pistol. He then took a magazine and loaded that into the pistol and put that in his holster. He got another magazine and loaded it in the appropriate place on his belt. Mr M.J. Birney: He can only load one at a time. The SPEAKER: Member for Kalgoorlie! Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: The member is the one who does not know what he is talking about. I have now read the incident report that has been provided to me, and I am providing the member with the facts. Mr M.J. Birney interjected. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: The member has not even listened. I have said that the officer loaded the first magazine into the pistol and he loaded the other magazine into his belt. This was essentially the explanation given to me by the Commissioner of Police late yesterday afternoon, and it has been confirmed by an incident briefing note that I have been given. The officer then did something really stupid. He decided to not only depress the trigger but also fully ratchet the appropriate lever on the gun to put it into a firing position, and then he fully depressed the trigger. In those circumstances if the Glock pistol had not fired, we would be asking for our money back. The fact of the matter is that human error cannot be eliminated. Similar instances of human error have occurred with all the other guns. However, we do know that all the professional evidence points to the fact that this gun has more safety mechanisms than any of the alternative guns. It is used by over 600 policing agencies in over 100 countries throughout the world, and it has a reputation as being one of the safest guns available to police services. I do not know whether somebody from one of the other manufacturers is paying the member for Kalgoorlie or what his particular issue is - Withdrawal of Remark Mr C.J. BARNETT: The minister has quite clearly impugned the reputation of the member for Kalgoorlie by implying that he was in receipt of financial benefit for asking questions and pursuing an issue. That is clearly impugning him, Mr Speaker, and I require and request that you call her to order. The SPEAKER: I was listening to what the Minister for Police said. She said that she did not know whether the member was in the employ of somebody. However, it is sailing too close to the wind and I ask the minister to withdraw that comment. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: I apologise, but I am at a loss to understand - Several members interjected. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: I have withdrawn it. I am quite happy to apologise and withdraw if the member is telling me that that is not the case. I fully apologise and withdraw. Questions without Notice Resumed Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: There is a lot of rabble opposite, Mr Speaker. Point of Order Mr R.F. JOHNSON: As I understand it, Mr Speaker, you required the minister to withdraw the comment. Dr G.I. Gallop: She did. Mr R.F. JOHNSON: She has not withdrawn without qualification. Dr G.I. Gallop: She has apologised and withdrawn. Mr R.F. JOHNSON: No, she has not; not without qualification. I draw that to your attention, Mr Speaker. The SPEAKER: The minister has withdrawn and apologised. Questions without Notice Resumed Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: That is quite certainly the case. What puzzles me is why the member for Kalgoorlie has become so obsessed about this issue. The incident that has been referred to is a matter of a gun performing as it is designed to perform. There is no issue with the gun arising out of the incident. There is an issue with the officer. It seems quite unreasonable for members opposite to suggest to me that I should know what the commissioner and the deputy commissioner did not know and what had not been reported to them. I made it quite clear when I gave the answer during the Estimates Committee hearing that the advice from the commissioner was that there had been no accidental discharge. Both the commissioner and the deputy commissioner have assured me that, although it is debatable whether it was an accidental discharge, if they had been aware of the incident, they would have said so at the time and we would have reported it fully in the Parliament. Mr J.N. Hyde interjected. The SPEAKER: Member for Perth!
Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: Mr Speaker, this is a serious issue and it would be helpful if the member for Kalgoorlie did not try to take over the member for Nedlands’ role of continuing to disrupt question time. This is a serious issue. It is a matter that I do want to explain fully on the record. The fact of the matter is that an incident did occur on 18 April this year. At that time the commissioner was on leave and Mr Bruce Brennan, the deputy commissioner, was acting in that position. I am given to understand that Mr Brennan was not aware of the incident. It is debatable whether this could be called an accidental discharge at all - Mr M.J. Birney interjected. Mr J.N. Hyde: A bloke pulled the trigger! It didn’t go off by itself. The SPEAKER: Members! I call the member for Perth to order for the second time. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: Mr Speaker, I want to explain exactly what the incident involved and then people can come to their own conclusions about it. On 18 April at our central station an officer took from a secure area his allocated Glock pistol. He then took a magazine and loaded that into the pistol and put that in his holster. He got another magazine and loaded it in the appropriate place on his belt. Mr M.J. Birney: He can only load one at a time. The SPEAKER: Member for Kalgoorlie! Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: The member is the one who does not know what he is talking about. I have now read the incident report that has been provided to me, and I am providing the member with the facts. Mr M.J. Birney interjected. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: The member has not even listened. I have said that the officer loaded the first magazine into the pistol and he loaded the other magazine into his belt. This was essentially the explanation given to me by the Commissioner of Police late yesterday afternoon, and it has been confirmed by an incident briefing note that I have been given. The officer then did something really stupid. He decided to not only depress the trigger but also fully ratchet the appropriate lever on the gun to put it into a firing position, and then he fully depressed the trigger. In those circumstances if the Glock pistol had not fired, we would be asking for our money back. The fact of the matter is that human error cannot be eliminated. Similar instances of human error have occurred with all the other guns. However, we do know that all the professional evidence points to the fact that this gun has more safety mechanisms than any of the alternative guns. It is used by over 600 policing agencies in over 100 countries throughout the world, and it has a reputation as being one of the safest guns available to police services. I do not know whether somebody from one of the other manufacturers is paying the member for Kalgoorlie or what his particular issue is - Withdrawal of Remark Mr C.J. BARNETT: The minister has quite clearly impugned the reputation of the member for Kalgoorlie by implying that he was in receipt of financial benefit for asking questions and pursuing an issue. That is clearly impugning him, Mr Speaker, and I require and request that you call her to order. The SPEAKER: I was listening to what the Minister for Police said. She said that she did not know whether the member was in the employ of somebody. However, it is sailing too close to the wind and I ask the minister to withdraw that comment. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: I apologise, but I am at a loss to understand - Several members interjected. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: I have withdrawn it. I am quite happy to apologise and withdraw if the member is telling me that that is not the case. I fully apologise and withdraw. Questions without Notice Resumed Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: There is a lot of rabble opposite, Mr Speaker. Point of Order Mr R.F. JOHNSON: As I understand it, Mr Speaker, you required the minister to withdraw the comment. Dr G.I. Gallop: She did. Mr R.F. JOHNSON: She has not withdrawn without qualification. Dr G.I. Gallop: She has apologised and withdrawn. Mr R.F. JOHNSON: No, she has not; not without qualification. I draw that to your attention, Mr Speaker. The SPEAKER: The minister has withdrawn and apologised. Questions without Notice Resumed Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: That is quite certainly the case. What puzzles me is why the member for Kalgoorlie has become so obsessed about this issue. The incident that has been referred to is a matter of a gun performing as it is designed to perform. There is no issue with the gun arising out of the incident. There is an issue with the officer. It seems quite unreasonable for members opposite to suggest to me that I should know what the commissioner and the deputy commissioner did not know and what had not been reported to them. I made it quite clear when I gave the answer during the Estimates Committee hearing that the advice from the commissioner was that there had been no accidental discharge. Both the commissioner and the deputy commissioner have assured me that, although it is debatable whether it was an accidental discharge, if they had been aware of the incident, they would have said so at the time and we would have reported it fully in the Parliament. Mr J.N. Hyde interjected. The SPEAKER: Member for Perth!
It is debatable whether this could be called an accidental discharge at all - Mr M.J. Birney interjected. Mr J.N. Hyde: A bloke pulled the trigger! It didn’t go off by itself. The SPEAKER: Members! I call the member for Perth to order for the second time. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: Mr Speaker, I want to explain exactly what the incident involved and then people can come to their own conclusions about it. On 18 April at our central station an officer took from a secure area his allocated Glock pistol. He then took a magazine and loaded that into the pistol and put that in his holster. He got another magazine and loaded it in the appropriate place on his belt. Mr M.J. Birney: He can only load one at a time. The SPEAKER: Member for Kalgoorlie! Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: The member is the one who does not know what he is talking about. I have now read the incident report that has been provided to me, and I am providing the member with the facts. Mr M.J. Birney interjected. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: The member has not even listened. I have said that the officer loaded the first magazine into the pistol and he loaded the other magazine into his belt. This was essentially the explanation given to me by the Commissioner of Police late yesterday afternoon, and it has been confirmed by an incident briefing note that I have been given. The officer then did something really stupid. He decided to not only depress the trigger but also fully ratchet the appropriate lever on the gun to put it into a firing position, and then he fully depressed the trigger. In those circumstances if the Glock pistol had not fired, we would be asking for our money back. The fact of the matter is that human error cannot be eliminated. Similar instances of human error have occurred with all the other guns. However, we do know that all the professional evidence points to the fact that this gun has more safety mechanisms than any of the alternative guns. It is used by over 600 policing agencies in over 100 countries throughout the world, and it has a reputation as being one of the safest guns available to police services. I do not know whether somebody from one of the other manufacturers is paying the member for Kalgoorlie or what his particular issue is - Withdrawal of Remark Mr C.J. BARNETT: The minister has quite clearly impugned the reputation of the member for Kalgoorlie by implying that he was in receipt of financial benefit for asking questions and pursuing an issue. That is clearly impugning him, Mr Speaker, and I require and request that you call her to order. The SPEAKER: I was listening to what the Minister for Police said. She said that she did not know whether the member was in the employ of somebody. However, it is sailing too close to the wind and I ask the minister to withdraw that comment. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: I apologise, but I am at a loss to understand - Several members interjected. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: I have withdrawn it. I am quite happy to apologise and withdraw if the member is telling me that that is not the case. I fully apologise and withdraw. Questions without Notice Resumed Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: There is a lot of rabble opposite, Mr Speaker. Point of Order Mr R.F. JOHNSON: As I understand it, Mr Speaker, you required the minister to withdraw the comment. Dr G.I. Gallop: She did. Mr R.F. JOHNSON: She has not withdrawn without qualification. Dr G.I. Gallop: She has apologised and withdrawn. Mr R.F. JOHNSON: No, she has not; not without qualification. I draw that to your attention, Mr Speaker. The SPEAKER: The minister has withdrawn and apologised. Questions without Notice Resumed Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: That is quite certainly the case. What puzzles me is why the member for Kalgoorlie has become so obsessed about this issue. The incident that has been referred to is a matter of a gun performing as it is designed to perform. There is no issue with the gun arising out of the incident. There is an issue with the officer. It seems quite unreasonable for members opposite to suggest to me that I should know what the commissioner and the deputy commissioner did not know and what had not been reported to them. I made it quite clear when I gave the answer during the Estimates Committee hearing that the advice from the commissioner was that there had been no accidental discharge. Both the commissioner and the deputy commissioner have assured me that, although it is debatable whether it was an accidental discharge, if they had been aware of the incident, they would have said so at the time and we would have reported it fully in the Parliament. Mr J.N. Hyde interjected. The SPEAKER: Member for Perth!
Mr M.J. Birney interjected. Mr J.N. Hyde: A bloke pulled the trigger! It didn’t go off by itself. The SPEAKER: Members! I call the member for Perth to order for the second time. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: Mr Speaker, I want to explain exactly what the incident involved and then people can come to their own conclusions about it. On 18 April at our central station an officer took from a secure area his allocated Glock pistol. He then took a magazine and loaded that into the pistol and put that in his holster. He got another magazine and loaded it in the appropriate place on his belt. Mr M.J. Birney: He can only load one at a time. The SPEAKER: Member for Kalgoorlie! Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: The member is the one who does not know what he is talking about. I have now read the incident report that has been provided to me, and I am providing the member with the facts. Mr M.J. Birney interjected. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: The member has not even listened. I have said that the officer loaded the first magazine into the pistol and he loaded the other magazine into his belt. This was essentially the explanation given to me by the Commissioner of Police late yesterday afternoon, and it has been confirmed by an incident briefing note that I have been given. The officer then did something really stupid. He decided to not only depress the trigger but also fully ratchet the appropriate lever on the gun to put it into a firing position, and then he fully depressed the trigger. In those circumstances if the Glock pistol had not fired, we would be asking for our money back. The fact of the matter is that human error cannot be eliminated. Similar instances of human error have occurred with all the other guns. However, we do know that all the professional evidence points to the fact that this gun has more safety mechanisms than any of the alternative guns. It is used by over 600 policing agencies in over 100 countries throughout the world, and it has a reputation as being one of the safest guns available to police services. I do not know whether somebody from one of the other manufacturers is paying the member for Kalgoorlie or what his particular issue is - Withdrawal of Remark Mr C.J. BARNETT: The minister has quite clearly impugned the reputation of the member for Kalgoorlie by implying that he was in receipt of financial benefit for asking questions and pursuing an issue. That is clearly impugning him, Mr Speaker, and I require and request that you call her to order. The SPEAKER: I was listening to what the Minister for Police said. She said that she did not know whether the member was in the employ of somebody. However, it is sailing too close to the wind and I ask the minister to withdraw that comment. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: I apologise, but I am at a loss to understand - Several members interjected. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: I have withdrawn it. I am quite happy to apologise and withdraw if the member is telling me that that is not the case. I fully apologise and withdraw. Questions without Notice Resumed Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: There is a lot of rabble opposite, Mr Speaker. Point of Order Mr R.F. JOHNSON: As I understand it, Mr Speaker, you required the minister to withdraw the comment. Dr G.I. Gallop: She did. Mr R.F. JOHNSON: She has not withdrawn without qualification. Dr G.I. Gallop: She has apologised and withdrawn. Mr R.F. JOHNSON: No, she has not; not without qualification. I draw that to your attention, Mr Speaker. The SPEAKER: The minister has withdrawn and apologised. Questions without Notice Resumed Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: That is quite certainly the case. What puzzles me is why the member for Kalgoorlie has become so obsessed about this issue. The incident that has been referred to is a matter of a gun performing as it is designed to perform. There is no issue with the gun arising out of the incident. There is an issue with the officer. It seems quite unreasonable for members opposite to suggest to me that I should know what the commissioner and the deputy commissioner did not know and what had not been reported to them. I made it quite clear when I gave the answer during the Estimates Committee hearing that the advice from the commissioner was that there had been no accidental discharge. Both the commissioner and the deputy commissioner have assured me that, although it is debatable whether it was an accidental discharge, if they had been aware of the incident, they would have said so at the time and we would have reported it fully in the Parliament. Mr J.N. Hyde interjected. The SPEAKER: Member for Perth!
Mr J.N. Hyde: A bloke pulled the trigger! It didn’t go off by itself. The SPEAKER: Members! I call the member for Perth to order for the second time. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: Mr Speaker, I want to explain exactly what the incident involved and then people can come to their own conclusions about it. On 18 April at our central station an officer took from a secure area his allocated Glock pistol. He then took a magazine and loaded that into the pistol and put that in his holster. He got another magazine and loaded it in the appropriate place on his belt. Mr M.J. Birney: He can only load one at a time. The SPEAKER: Member for Kalgoorlie! Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: The member is the one who does not know what he is talking about. I have now read the incident report that has been provided to me, and I am providing the member with the facts. Mr M.J. Birney interjected. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: The member has not even listened. I have said that the officer loaded the first magazine into the pistol and he loaded the other magazine into his belt. This was essentially the explanation given to me by the Commissioner of Police late yesterday afternoon, and it has been confirmed by an incident briefing note that I have been given. The officer then did something really stupid. He decided to not only depress the trigger but also fully ratchet the appropriate lever on the gun to put it into a firing position, and then he fully depressed the trigger. In those circumstances if the Glock pistol had not fired, we would be asking for our money back. The fact of the matter is that human error cannot be eliminated. Similar instances of human error have occurred with all the other guns. However, we do know that all the professional evidence points to the fact that this gun has more safety mechanisms than any of the alternative guns. It is used by over 600 policing agencies in over 100 countries throughout the world, and it has a reputation as being one of the safest guns available to police services. I do not know whether somebody from one of the other manufacturers is paying the member for Kalgoorlie or what his particular issue is - Withdrawal of Remark Mr C.J. BARNETT: The minister has quite clearly impugned the reputation of the member for Kalgoorlie by implying that he was in receipt of financial benefit for asking questions and pursuing an issue. That is clearly impugning him, Mr Speaker, and I require and request that you call her to order. The SPEAKER: I was listening to what the Minister for Police said. She said that she did not know whether the member was in the employ of somebody. However, it is sailing too close to the wind and I ask the minister to withdraw that comment. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: I apologise, but I am at a loss to understand - Several members interjected. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: I have withdrawn it. I am quite happy to apologise and withdraw if the member is telling me that that is not the case. I fully apologise and withdraw. Questions without Notice Resumed Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: There is a lot of rabble opposite, Mr Speaker. Point of Order Mr R.F. JOHNSON: As I understand it, Mr Speaker, you required the minister to withdraw the comment. Dr G.I. Gallop: She did. Mr R.F. JOHNSON: She has not withdrawn without qualification. Dr G.I. Gallop: She has apologised and withdrawn. Mr R.F. JOHNSON: No, she has not; not without qualification. I draw that to your attention, Mr Speaker. The SPEAKER: The minister has withdrawn and apologised. Questions without Notice Resumed Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: That is quite certainly the case. What puzzles me is why the member for Kalgoorlie has become so obsessed about this issue. The incident that has been referred to is a matter of a gun performing as it is designed to perform. There is no issue with the gun arising out of the incident. There is an issue with the officer. It seems quite unreasonable for members opposite to suggest to me that I should know what the commissioner and the deputy commissioner did not know and what had not been reported to them. I made it quite clear when I gave the answer during the Estimates Committee hearing that the advice from the commissioner was that there had been no accidental discharge. Both the commissioner and the deputy commissioner have assured me that, although it is debatable whether it was an accidental discharge, if they had been aware of the incident, they would have said so at the time and we would have reported it fully in the Parliament. Mr J.N. Hyde interjected. The SPEAKER: Member for Perth!
The SPEAKER: Members! I call the member for Perth to order for the second time. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: Mr Speaker, I want to explain exactly what the incident involved and then people can come to their own conclusions about it. On 18 April at our central station an officer took from a secure area his allocated Glock pistol. He then took a magazine and loaded that into the pistol and put that in his holster. He got another magazine and loaded it in the appropriate place on his belt. Mr M.J. Birney: He can only load one at a time. The SPEAKER: Member for Kalgoorlie! Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: The member is the one who does not know what he is talking about. I have now read the incident report that has been provided to me, and I am providing the member with the facts. Mr M.J. Birney interjected. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: The member has not even listened. I have said that the officer loaded the first magazine into the pistol and he loaded the other magazine into his belt. This was essentially the explanation given to me by the Commissioner of Police late yesterday afternoon, and it has been confirmed by an incident briefing note that I have been given. The officer then did something really stupid. He decided to not only depress the trigger but also fully ratchet the appropriate lever on the gun to put it into a firing position, and then he fully depressed the trigger. In those circumstances if the Glock pistol had not fired, we would be asking for our money back. The fact of the matter is that human error cannot be eliminated. Similar instances of human error have occurred with all the other guns. However, we do know that all the professional evidence points to the fact that this gun has more safety mechanisms than any of the alternative guns. It is used by over 600 policing agencies in over 100 countries throughout the world, and it has a reputation as being one of the safest guns available to police services. I do not know whether somebody from one of the other manufacturers is paying the member for Kalgoorlie or what his particular issue is - Withdrawal of Remark Mr C.J. BARNETT: The minister has quite clearly impugned the reputation of the member for Kalgoorlie by implying that he was in receipt of financial benefit for asking questions and pursuing an issue. That is clearly impugning him, Mr Speaker, and I require and request that you call her to order. The SPEAKER: I was listening to what the Minister for Police said. She said that she did not know whether the member was in the employ of somebody. However, it is sailing too close to the wind and I ask the minister to withdraw that comment. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: I apologise, but I am at a loss to understand - Several members interjected. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: I have withdrawn it. I am quite happy to apologise and withdraw if the member is telling me that that is not the case. I fully apologise and withdraw. Questions without Notice Resumed Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: There is a lot of rabble opposite, Mr Speaker. Point of Order Mr R.F. JOHNSON: As I understand it, Mr Speaker, you required the minister to withdraw the comment. Dr G.I. Gallop: She did. Mr R.F. JOHNSON: She has not withdrawn without qualification. Dr G.I. Gallop: She has apologised and withdrawn. Mr R.F. JOHNSON: No, she has not; not without qualification. I draw that to your attention, Mr Speaker. The SPEAKER: The minister has withdrawn and apologised. Questions without Notice Resumed Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: That is quite certainly the case. What puzzles me is why the member for Kalgoorlie has become so obsessed about this issue. The incident that has been referred to is a matter of a gun performing as it is designed to perform. There is no issue with the gun arising out of the incident. There is an issue with the officer. It seems quite unreasonable for members opposite to suggest to me that I should know what the commissioner and the deputy commissioner did not know and what had not been reported to them. I made it quite clear when I gave the answer during the Estimates Committee hearing that the advice from the commissioner was that there had been no accidental discharge. Both the commissioner and the deputy commissioner have assured me that, although it is debatable whether it was an accidental discharge, if they had been aware of the incident, they would have said so at the time and we would have reported it fully in the Parliament. Mr J.N. Hyde interjected. The SPEAKER: Member for Perth!
Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: Mr Speaker, I want to explain exactly what the incident involved and then people can come to their own conclusions about it. On 18 April at our central station an officer took from a secure area his allocated Glock pistol. He then took a magazine and loaded that into the pistol and put that in his holster. He got another magazine and loaded it in the appropriate place on his belt. Mr M.J. Birney: He can only load one at a time. The SPEAKER: Member for Kalgoorlie! Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: The member is the one who does not know what he is talking about. I have now read the incident report that has been provided to me, and I am providing the member with the facts. Mr M.J. Birney interjected. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: The member has not even listened. I have said that the officer loaded the first magazine into the pistol and he loaded the other magazine into his belt. This was essentially the explanation given to me by the Commissioner of Police late yesterday afternoon, and it has been confirmed by an incident briefing note that I have been given. The officer then did something really stupid. He decided to not only depress the trigger but also fully ratchet the appropriate lever on the gun to put it into a firing position, and then he fully depressed the trigger. In those circumstances if the Glock pistol had not fired, we would be asking for our money back. The fact of the matter is that human error cannot be eliminated. Similar instances of human error have occurred with all the other guns. However, we do know that all the professional evidence points to the fact that this gun has more safety mechanisms than any of the alternative guns. It is used by over 600 policing agencies in over 100 countries throughout the world, and it has a reputation as being one of the safest guns available to police services. I do not know whether somebody from one of the other manufacturers is paying the member for Kalgoorlie or what his particular issue is - Withdrawal of Remark Mr C.J. BARNETT: The minister has quite clearly impugned the reputation of the member for Kalgoorlie by implying that he was in receipt of financial benefit for asking questions and pursuing an issue. That is clearly impugning him, Mr Speaker, and I require and request that you call her to order. The SPEAKER: I was listening to what the Minister for Police said. She said that she did not know whether the member was in the employ of somebody. However, it is sailing too close to the wind and I ask the minister to withdraw that comment. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: I apologise, but I am at a loss to understand - Several members interjected. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: I have withdrawn it. I am quite happy to apologise and withdraw if the member is telling me that that is not the case. I fully apologise and withdraw. Questions without Notice Resumed Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: There is a lot of rabble opposite, Mr Speaker. Point of Order Mr R.F. JOHNSON: As I understand it, Mr Speaker, you required the minister to withdraw the comment. Dr G.I. Gallop: She did. Mr R.F. JOHNSON: She has not withdrawn without qualification. Dr G.I. Gallop: She has apologised and withdrawn. Mr R.F. JOHNSON: No, she has not; not without qualification. I draw that to your attention, Mr Speaker. The SPEAKER: The minister has withdrawn and apologised. Questions without Notice Resumed Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: That is quite certainly the case. What puzzles me is why the member for Kalgoorlie has become so obsessed about this issue. The incident that has been referred to is a matter of a gun performing as it is designed to perform. There is no issue with the gun arising out of the incident. There is an issue with the officer. It seems quite unreasonable for members opposite to suggest to me that I should know what the commissioner and the deputy commissioner did not know and what had not been reported to them. I made it quite clear when I gave the answer during the Estimates Committee hearing that the advice from the commissioner was that there had been no accidental discharge. Both the commissioner and the deputy commissioner have assured me that, although it is debatable whether it was an accidental discharge, if they had been aware of the incident, they would have said so at the time and we would have reported it fully in the Parliament. Mr J.N. Hyde interjected. The SPEAKER: Member for Perth!
Mr M.J. Birney: He can only load one at a time. The SPEAKER: Member for Kalgoorlie! Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: The member is the one who does not know what he is talking about. I have now read the incident report that has been provided to me, and I am providing the member with the facts. Mr M.J. Birney interjected. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: The member has not even listened. I have said that the officer loaded the first magazine into the pistol and he loaded the other magazine into his belt. This was essentially the explanation given to me by the Commissioner of Police late yesterday afternoon, and it has been confirmed by an incident briefing note that I have been given. The officer then did something really stupid. He decided to not only depress the trigger but also fully ratchet the appropriate lever on the gun to put it into a firing position, and then he fully depressed the trigger. In those circumstances if the Glock pistol had not fired, we would be asking for our money back. The fact of the matter is that human error cannot be eliminated. Similar instances of human error have occurred with all the other guns. However, we do know that all the professional evidence points to the fact that this gun has more safety mechanisms than any of the alternative guns. It is used by over 600 policing agencies in over 100 countries throughout the world, and it has a reputation as being one of the safest guns available to police services. I do not know whether somebody from one of the other manufacturers is paying the member for Kalgoorlie or what his particular issue is - Withdrawal of Remark Mr C.J. BARNETT: The minister has quite clearly impugned the reputation of the member for Kalgoorlie by implying that he was in receipt of financial benefit for asking questions and pursuing an issue. That is clearly impugning him, Mr Speaker, and I require and request that you call her to order. The SPEAKER: I was listening to what the Minister for Police said. She said that she did not know whether the member was in the employ of somebody. However, it is sailing too close to the wind and I ask the minister to withdraw that comment. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: I apologise, but I am at a loss to understand - Several members interjected. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: I have withdrawn it. I am quite happy to apologise and withdraw if the member is telling me that that is not the case. I fully apologise and withdraw. Questions without Notice Resumed Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: There is a lot of rabble opposite, Mr Speaker. Point of Order Mr R.F. JOHNSON: As I understand it, Mr Speaker, you required the minister to withdraw the comment. Dr G.I. Gallop: She did. Mr R.F. JOHNSON: She has not withdrawn without qualification. Dr G.I. Gallop: She has apologised and withdrawn. Mr R.F. JOHNSON: No, she has not; not without qualification. I draw that to your attention, Mr Speaker. The SPEAKER: The minister has withdrawn and apologised. Questions without Notice Resumed Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: That is quite certainly the case. What puzzles me is why the member for Kalgoorlie has become so obsessed about this issue. The incident that has been referred to is a matter of a gun performing as it is designed to perform. There is no issue with the gun arising out of the incident. There is an issue with the officer. It seems quite unreasonable for members opposite to suggest to me that I should know what the commissioner and the deputy commissioner did not know and what had not been reported to them. I made it quite clear when I gave the answer during the Estimates Committee hearing that the advice from the commissioner was that there had been no accidental discharge. Both the commissioner and the deputy commissioner have assured me that, although it is debatable whether it was an accidental discharge, if they had been aware of the incident, they would have said so at the time and we would have reported it fully in the Parliament. Mr J.N. Hyde interjected. The SPEAKER: Member for Perth!
The SPEAKER: Member for Kalgoorlie! Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: The member is the one who does not know what he is talking about. I have now read the incident report that has been provided to me, and I am providing the member with the facts. Mr M.J. Birney interjected. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: The member has not even listened. I have said that the officer loaded the first magazine into the pistol and he loaded the other magazine into his belt. This was essentially the explanation given to me by the Commissioner of Police late yesterday afternoon, and it has been confirmed by an incident briefing note that I have been given. The officer then did something really stupid. He decided to not only depress the trigger but also fully ratchet the appropriate lever on the gun to put it into a firing position, and then he fully depressed the trigger. In those circumstances if the Glock pistol had not fired, we would be asking for our money back. The fact of the matter is that human error cannot be eliminated. Similar instances of human error have occurred with all the other guns. However, we do know that all the professional evidence points to the fact that this gun has more safety mechanisms than any of the alternative guns. It is used by over 600 policing agencies in over 100 countries throughout the world, and it has a reputation as being one of the safest guns available to police services. I do not know whether somebody from one of the other manufacturers is paying the member for Kalgoorlie or what his particular issue is - Withdrawal of Remark Mr C.J. BARNETT: The minister has quite clearly impugned the reputation of the member for Kalgoorlie by implying that he was in receipt of financial benefit for asking questions and pursuing an issue. That is clearly impugning him, Mr Speaker, and I require and request that you call her to order. The SPEAKER: I was listening to what the Minister for Police said. She said that she did not know whether the member was in the employ of somebody. However, it is sailing too close to the wind and I ask the minister to withdraw that comment. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: I apologise, but I am at a loss to understand - Several members interjected. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: I have withdrawn it. I am quite happy to apologise and withdraw if the member is telling me that that is not the case. I fully apologise and withdraw. Questions without Notice Resumed Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: There is a lot of rabble opposite, Mr Speaker. Point of Order Mr R.F. JOHNSON: As I understand it, Mr Speaker, you required the minister to withdraw the comment. Dr G.I. Gallop: She did. Mr R.F. JOHNSON: She has not withdrawn without qualification. Dr G.I. Gallop: She has apologised and withdrawn. Mr R.F. JOHNSON: No, she has not; not without qualification. I draw that to your attention, Mr Speaker. The SPEAKER: The minister has withdrawn and apologised. Questions without Notice Resumed Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: That is quite certainly the case. What puzzles me is why the member for Kalgoorlie has become so obsessed about this issue. The incident that has been referred to is a matter of a gun performing as it is designed to perform. There is no issue with the gun arising out of the incident. There is an issue with the officer. It seems quite unreasonable for members opposite to suggest to me that I should know what the commissioner and the deputy commissioner did not know and what had not been reported to them. I made it quite clear when I gave the answer during the Estimates Committee hearing that the advice from the commissioner was that there had been no accidental discharge. Both the commissioner and the deputy commissioner have assured me that, although it is debatable whether it was an accidental discharge, if they had been aware of the incident, they would have said so at the time and we would have reported it fully in the Parliament. Mr J.N. Hyde interjected. The SPEAKER: Member for Perth!
Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: The member is the one who does not know what he is talking about. I have now read the incident report that has been provided to me, and I am providing the member with the facts. Mr M.J. Birney interjected. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: The member has not even listened. I have said that the officer loaded the first magazine into the pistol and he loaded the other magazine into his belt. This was essentially the explanation given to me by the Commissioner of Police late yesterday afternoon, and it has been confirmed by an incident briefing note that I have been given. The officer then did something really stupid. He decided to not only depress the trigger but also fully ratchet the appropriate lever on the gun to put it into a firing position, and then he fully depressed the trigger. In those circumstances if the Glock pistol had not fired, we would be asking for our money back. The fact of the matter is that human error cannot be eliminated. Similar instances of human error have occurred with all the other guns. However, we do know that all the professional evidence points to the fact that this gun has more safety mechanisms than any of the alternative guns. It is used by over 600 policing agencies in over 100 countries throughout the world, and it has a reputation as being one of the safest guns available to police services. I do not know whether somebody from one of the other manufacturers is paying the member for Kalgoorlie or what his particular issue is - Withdrawal of Remark Mr C.J. BARNETT: The minister has quite clearly impugned the reputation of the member for Kalgoorlie by implying that he was in receipt of financial benefit for asking questions and pursuing an issue. That is clearly impugning him, Mr Speaker, and I require and request that you call her to order. The SPEAKER: I was listening to what the Minister for Police said. She said that she did not know whether the member was in the employ of somebody. However, it is sailing too close to the wind and I ask the minister to withdraw that comment. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: I apologise, but I am at a loss to understand - Several members interjected. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: I have withdrawn it. I am quite happy to apologise and withdraw if the member is telling me that that is not the case. I fully apologise and withdraw. Questions without Notice Resumed Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: There is a lot of rabble opposite, Mr Speaker. Point of Order Mr R.F. JOHNSON: As I understand it, Mr Speaker, you required the minister to withdraw the comment. Dr G.I. Gallop: She did. Mr R.F. JOHNSON: She has not withdrawn without qualification. Dr G.I. Gallop: She has apologised and withdrawn. Mr R.F. JOHNSON: No, she has not; not without qualification. I draw that to your attention, Mr Speaker. The SPEAKER: The minister has withdrawn and apologised. Questions without Notice Resumed Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: That is quite certainly the case. What puzzles me is why the member for Kalgoorlie has become so obsessed about this issue. The incident that has been referred to is a matter of a gun performing as it is designed to perform. There is no issue with the gun arising out of the incident. There is an issue with the officer. It seems quite unreasonable for members opposite to suggest to me that I should know what the commissioner and the deputy commissioner did not know and what had not been reported to them. I made it quite clear when I gave the answer during the Estimates Committee hearing that the advice from the commissioner was that there had been no accidental discharge. Both the commissioner and the deputy commissioner have assured me that, although it is debatable whether it was an accidental discharge, if they had been aware of the incident, they would have said so at the time and we would have reported it fully in the Parliament. Mr J.N. Hyde interjected. The SPEAKER: Member for Perth!
Mr M.J. Birney interjected. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: The member has not even listened. I have said that the officer loaded the first magazine into the pistol and he loaded the other magazine into his belt. This was essentially the explanation given to me by the Commissioner of Police late yesterday afternoon, and it has been confirmed by an incident briefing note that I have been given. The officer then did something really stupid. He decided to not only depress the trigger but also fully ratchet the appropriate lever on the gun to put it into a firing position, and then he fully depressed the trigger. In those circumstances if the Glock pistol had not fired, we would be asking for our money back. The fact of the matter is that human error cannot be eliminated. Similar instances of human error have occurred with all the other guns. However, we do know that all the professional evidence points to the fact that this gun has more safety mechanisms than any of the alternative guns. It is used by over 600 policing agencies in over 100 countries throughout the world, and it has a reputation as being one of the safest guns available to police services. I do not know whether somebody from one of the other manufacturers is paying the member for Kalgoorlie or what his particular issue is - Withdrawal of Remark Mr C.J. BARNETT: The minister has quite clearly impugned the reputation of the member for Kalgoorlie by implying that he was in receipt of financial benefit for asking questions and pursuing an issue. That is clearly impugning him, Mr Speaker, and I require and request that you call her to order. The SPEAKER: I was listening to what the Minister for Police said. She said that she did not know whether the member was in the employ of somebody. However, it is sailing too close to the wind and I ask the minister to withdraw that comment. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: I apologise, but I am at a loss to understand - Several members interjected. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: I have withdrawn it. I am quite happy to apologise and withdraw if the member is telling me that that is not the case. I fully apologise and withdraw. Questions without Notice Resumed Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: There is a lot of rabble opposite, Mr Speaker. Point of Order Mr R.F. JOHNSON: As I understand it, Mr Speaker, you required the minister to withdraw the comment. Dr G.I. Gallop: She did. Mr R.F. JOHNSON: She has not withdrawn without qualification. Dr G.I. Gallop: She has apologised and withdrawn. Mr R.F. JOHNSON: No, she has not; not without qualification. I draw that to your attention, Mr Speaker. The SPEAKER: The minister has withdrawn and apologised. Questions without Notice Resumed Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: That is quite certainly the case. What puzzles me is why the member for Kalgoorlie has become so obsessed about this issue. The incident that has been referred to is a matter of a gun performing as it is designed to perform. There is no issue with the gun arising out of the incident. There is an issue with the officer. It seems quite unreasonable for members opposite to suggest to me that I should know what the commissioner and the deputy commissioner did not know and what had not been reported to them. I made it quite clear when I gave the answer during the Estimates Committee hearing that the advice from the commissioner was that there had been no accidental discharge. Both the commissioner and the deputy commissioner have assured me that, although it is debatable whether it was an accidental discharge, if they had been aware of the incident, they would have said so at the time and we would have reported it fully in the Parliament. Mr J.N. Hyde interjected. The SPEAKER: Member for Perth!
Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: The member has not even listened. I have said that the officer loaded the first magazine into the pistol and he loaded the other magazine into his belt. This was essentially the explanation given to me by the Commissioner of Police late yesterday afternoon, and it has been confirmed by an incident briefing note that I have been given. The officer then did something really stupid. He decided to not only depress the trigger but also fully ratchet the appropriate lever on the gun to put it into a firing position, and then he fully depressed the trigger. In those circumstances if the Glock pistol had not fired, we would be asking for our money back. The fact of the matter is that human error cannot be eliminated. Similar instances of human error have occurred with all the other guns. However, we do know that all the professional evidence points to the fact that this gun has more safety mechanisms than any of the alternative guns. It is used by over 600 policing agencies in over 100 countries throughout the world, and it has a reputation as being one of the safest guns available to police services. I do not know whether somebody from one of the other manufacturers is paying the member for Kalgoorlie or what his particular issue is - Withdrawal of Remark Mr C.J. BARNETT: The minister has quite clearly impugned the reputation of the member for Kalgoorlie by implying that he was in receipt of financial benefit for asking questions and pursuing an issue. That is clearly impugning him, Mr Speaker, and I require and request that you call her to order. The SPEAKER: I was listening to what the Minister for Police said. She said that she did not know whether the member was in the employ of somebody. However, it is sailing too close to the wind and I ask the minister to withdraw that comment. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: I apologise, but I am at a loss to understand - Several members interjected. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: I have withdrawn it. I am quite happy to apologise and withdraw if the member is telling me that that is not the case. I fully apologise and withdraw. Questions without Notice Resumed Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: There is a lot of rabble opposite, Mr Speaker. Point of Order Mr R.F. JOHNSON: As I understand it, Mr Speaker, you required the minister to withdraw the comment. Dr G.I. Gallop: She did. Mr R.F. JOHNSON: She has not withdrawn without qualification. Dr G.I. Gallop: She has apologised and withdrawn. Mr R.F. JOHNSON: No, she has not; not without qualification. I draw that to your attention, Mr Speaker. The SPEAKER: The minister has withdrawn and apologised. Questions without Notice Resumed Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: That is quite certainly the case. What puzzles me is why the member for Kalgoorlie has become so obsessed about this issue. The incident that has been referred to is a matter of a gun performing as it is designed to perform. There is no issue with the gun arising out of the incident. There is an issue with the officer. It seems quite unreasonable for members opposite to suggest to me that I should know what the commissioner and the deputy commissioner did not know and what had not been reported to them. I made it quite clear when I gave the answer during the Estimates Committee hearing that the advice from the commissioner was that there had been no accidental discharge. Both the commissioner and the deputy commissioner have assured me that, although it is debatable whether it was an accidental discharge, if they had been aware of the incident, they would have said so at the time and we would have reported it fully in the Parliament. Mr J.N. Hyde interjected. The SPEAKER: Member for Perth!
The SPEAKER: I was listening to what the Minister for Police said. She said that she did not know whether the member was in the employ of somebody. However, it is sailing too close to the wind and I ask the minister to withdraw that comment. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: I apologise, but I am at a loss to understand - Several members interjected. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: I have withdrawn it. I am quite happy to apologise and withdraw if the member is telling me that that is not the case. I fully apologise and withdraw. Questions without Notice Resumed Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: There is a lot of rabble opposite, Mr Speaker. Point of Order Mr R.F. JOHNSON: As I understand it, Mr Speaker, you required the minister to withdraw the comment. Dr G.I. Gallop: She did. Mr R.F. JOHNSON: She has not withdrawn without qualification. Dr G.I. Gallop: She has apologised and withdrawn. Mr R.F. JOHNSON: No, she has not; not without qualification. I draw that to your attention, Mr Speaker. The SPEAKER: The minister has withdrawn and apologised. Questions without Notice Resumed Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: That is quite certainly the case. What puzzles me is why the member for Kalgoorlie has become so obsessed about this issue. The incident that has been referred to is a matter of a gun performing as it is designed to perform. There is no issue with the gun arising out of the incident. There is an issue with the officer. It seems quite unreasonable for members opposite to suggest to me that I should know what the commissioner and the deputy commissioner did not know and what had not been reported to them. I made it quite clear when I gave the answer during the Estimates Committee hearing that the advice from the commissioner was that there had been no accidental discharge. Both the commissioner and the deputy commissioner have assured me that, although it is debatable whether it was an accidental discharge, if they had been aware of the incident, they would have said so at the time and we would have reported it fully in the Parliament. Mr J.N. Hyde interjected. The SPEAKER: Member for Perth!
Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: I apologise, but I am at a loss to understand - Several members interjected. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: I have withdrawn it. I am quite happy to apologise and withdraw if the member is telling me that that is not the case. I fully apologise and withdraw. Questions without Notice Resumed Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: There is a lot of rabble opposite, Mr Speaker. Point of Order Mr R.F. JOHNSON: As I understand it, Mr Speaker, you required the minister to withdraw the comment. Dr G.I. Gallop: She did. Mr R.F. JOHNSON: She has not withdrawn without qualification. Dr G.I. Gallop: She has apologised and withdrawn. Mr R.F. JOHNSON: No, she has not; not without qualification. I draw that to your attention, Mr Speaker. The SPEAKER: The minister has withdrawn and apologised. Questions without Notice Resumed Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: That is quite certainly the case. What puzzles me is why the member for Kalgoorlie has become so obsessed about this issue. The incident that has been referred to is a matter of a gun performing as it is designed to perform. There is no issue with the gun arising out of the incident. There is an issue with the officer. It seems quite unreasonable for members opposite to suggest to me that I should know what the commissioner and the deputy commissioner did not know and what had not been reported to them. I made it quite clear when I gave the answer during the Estimates Committee hearing that the advice from the commissioner was that there had been no accidental discharge. Both the commissioner and the deputy commissioner have assured me that, although it is debatable whether it was an accidental discharge, if they had been aware of the incident, they would have said so at the time and we would have reported it fully in the Parliament. Mr J.N. Hyde interjected. The SPEAKER: Member for Perth!
Several members interjected. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: I have withdrawn it. I am quite happy to apologise and withdraw if the member is telling me that that is not the case. I fully apologise and withdraw. Questions without Notice Resumed Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: There is a lot of rabble opposite, Mr Speaker. Point of Order Mr R.F. JOHNSON: As I understand it, Mr Speaker, you required the minister to withdraw the comment. Dr G.I. Gallop: She did. Mr R.F. JOHNSON: She has not withdrawn without qualification. Dr G.I. Gallop: She has apologised and withdrawn. Mr R.F. JOHNSON: No, she has not; not without qualification. I draw that to your attention, Mr Speaker. The SPEAKER: The minister has withdrawn and apologised. Questions without Notice Resumed Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: That is quite certainly the case. What puzzles me is why the member for Kalgoorlie has become so obsessed about this issue. The incident that has been referred to is a matter of a gun performing as it is designed to perform. There is no issue with the gun arising out of the incident. There is an issue with the officer. It seems quite unreasonable for members opposite to suggest to me that I should know what the commissioner and the deputy commissioner did not know and what had not been reported to them. I made it quite clear when I gave the answer during the Estimates Committee hearing that the advice from the commissioner was that there had been no accidental discharge. Both the commissioner and the deputy commissioner have assured me that, although it is debatable whether it was an accidental discharge, if they had been aware of the incident, they would have said so at the time and we would have reported it fully in the Parliament. Mr J.N. Hyde interjected. The SPEAKER: Member for Perth!
Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: I have withdrawn it. I am quite happy to apologise and withdraw if the member is telling me that that is not the case. I fully apologise and withdraw. Questions without Notice Resumed Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: There is a lot of rabble opposite, Mr Speaker. Point of Order Mr R.F. JOHNSON: As I understand it, Mr Speaker, you required the minister to withdraw the comment. Dr G.I. Gallop: She did. Mr R.F. JOHNSON: She has not withdrawn without qualification. Dr G.I. Gallop: She has apologised and withdrawn. Mr R.F. JOHNSON: No, she has not; not without qualification. I draw that to your attention, Mr Speaker. The SPEAKER: The minister has withdrawn and apologised. Questions without Notice Resumed Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: That is quite certainly the case. What puzzles me is why the member for Kalgoorlie has become so obsessed about this issue. The incident that has been referred to is a matter of a gun performing as it is designed to perform. There is no issue with the gun arising out of the incident. There is an issue with the officer. It seems quite unreasonable for members opposite to suggest to me that I should know what the commissioner and the deputy commissioner did not know and what had not been reported to them. I made it quite clear when I gave the answer during the Estimates Committee hearing that the advice from the commissioner was that there had been no accidental discharge. Both the commissioner and the deputy commissioner have assured me that, although it is debatable whether it was an accidental discharge, if they had been aware of the incident, they would have said so at the time and we would have reported it fully in the Parliament. Mr J.N. Hyde interjected. The SPEAKER: Member for Perth!
Dr G.I. Gallop: She did. Mr R.F. JOHNSON: She has not withdrawn without qualification. Dr G.I. Gallop: She has apologised and withdrawn. Mr R.F. JOHNSON: No, she has not; not without qualification. I draw that to your attention, Mr Speaker. The SPEAKER: The minister has withdrawn and apologised. Questions without Notice Resumed Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: That is quite certainly the case. What puzzles me is why the member for Kalgoorlie has become so obsessed about this issue. The incident that has been referred to is a matter of a gun performing as it is designed to perform. There is no issue with the gun arising out of the incident. There is an issue with the officer. It seems quite unreasonable for members opposite to suggest to me that I should know what the commissioner and the deputy commissioner did not know and what had not been reported to them. I made it quite clear when I gave the answer during the Estimates Committee hearing that the advice from the commissioner was that there had been no accidental discharge. Both the commissioner and the deputy commissioner have assured me that, although it is debatable whether it was an accidental discharge, if they had been aware of the incident, they would have said so at the time and we would have reported it fully in the Parliament. Mr J.N. Hyde interjected. The SPEAKER: Member for Perth!
Mr R.F. JOHNSON: She has not withdrawn without qualification. Dr G.I. Gallop: She has apologised and withdrawn. Mr R.F. JOHNSON: No, she has not; not without qualification. I draw that to your attention, Mr Speaker. The SPEAKER: The minister has withdrawn and apologised. Questions without Notice Resumed Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: That is quite certainly the case. What puzzles me is why the member for Kalgoorlie has become so obsessed about this issue. The incident that has been referred to is a matter of a gun performing as it is designed to perform. There is no issue with the gun arising out of the incident. There is an issue with the officer. It seems quite unreasonable for members opposite to suggest to me that I should know what the commissioner and the deputy commissioner did not know and what had not been reported to them. I made it quite clear when I gave the answer during the Estimates Committee hearing that the advice from the commissioner was that there had been no accidental discharge. Both the commissioner and the deputy commissioner have assured me that, although it is debatable whether it was an accidental discharge, if they had been aware of the incident, they would have said so at the time and we would have reported it fully in the Parliament. Mr J.N. Hyde interjected. The SPEAKER: Member for Perth!
Dr G.I. Gallop: She has apologised and withdrawn. Mr R.F. JOHNSON: No, she has not; not without qualification. I draw that to your attention, Mr Speaker. The SPEAKER: The minister has withdrawn and apologised. Questions without Notice Resumed Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: That is quite certainly the case. What puzzles me is why the member for Kalgoorlie has become so obsessed about this issue. The incident that has been referred to is a matter of a gun performing as it is designed to perform. There is no issue with the gun arising out of the incident. There is an issue with the officer. It seems quite unreasonable for members opposite to suggest to me that I should know what the commissioner and the deputy commissioner did not know and what had not been reported to them. I made it quite clear when I gave the answer during the Estimates Committee hearing that the advice from the commissioner was that there had been no accidental discharge. Both the commissioner and the deputy commissioner have assured me that, although it is debatable whether it was an accidental discharge, if they had been aware of the incident, they would have said so at the time and we would have reported it fully in the Parliament. Mr J.N. Hyde interjected. The SPEAKER: Member for Perth!
Mr R.F. JOHNSON: No, she has not; not without qualification. I draw that to your attention, Mr Speaker. The SPEAKER: The minister has withdrawn and apologised. Questions without Notice Resumed Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: That is quite certainly the case. What puzzles me is why the member for Kalgoorlie has become so obsessed about this issue. The incident that has been referred to is a matter of a gun performing as it is designed to perform. There is no issue with the gun arising out of the incident. There is an issue with the officer. It seems quite unreasonable for members opposite to suggest to me that I should know what the commissioner and the deputy commissioner did not know and what had not been reported to them. I made it quite clear when I gave the answer during the Estimates Committee hearing that the advice from the commissioner was that there had been no accidental discharge. Both the commissioner and the deputy commissioner have assured me that, although it is debatable whether it was an accidental discharge, if they had been aware of the incident, they would have said so at the time and we would have reported it fully in the Parliament. Mr J.N. Hyde interjected. The SPEAKER: Member for Perth!
The SPEAKER: The minister has withdrawn and apologised. Questions without Notice Resumed Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: That is quite certainly the case. What puzzles me is why the member for Kalgoorlie has become so obsessed about this issue. The incident that has been referred to is a matter of a gun performing as it is designed to perform. There is no issue with the gun arising out of the incident. There is an issue with the officer. It seems quite unreasonable for members opposite to suggest to me that I should know what the commissioner and the deputy commissioner did not know and what had not been reported to them. I made it quite clear when I gave the answer during the Estimates Committee hearing that the advice from the commissioner was that there had been no accidental discharge. Both the commissioner and the deputy commissioner have assured me that, although it is debatable whether it was an accidental discharge, if they had been aware of the incident, they would have said so at the time and we would have reported it fully in the Parliament. Mr J.N. Hyde interjected. The SPEAKER: Member for Perth!
Mr J.N. Hyde interjected. The SPEAKER: Member for Perth!
The SPEAKER: Member for Perth!
Explore WA Government Data
Search the full archive in the free dashboard, or query programmatically via API.
Explore more
Government Gazette
Appointments, regulatory notices, planning changes.
Hansard
Debates, questions, speeches and sentiment.
Tabled Papers
Reports and documents tabled in Parliament.
Committees
Committee profiles and recent reports.
Regulations
Subsidiary legislation with filters and summaries.
Bills
Proposed laws and parliamentary progress.
Acts
Current WA legislation and summaries.
Explanatory Memoranda
Bills with EMs (text/PDF) available.
Members
MP profiles, party breakdown and rankings.
Pollie Rankings
Data-driven rankings across 19 categories.
Amendment Chains
Track how schemes and regulations evolve over time.