❓ A heated exchange in WA Parliament where Ms. Davies accuses the Minister for Mines and Petroleum of failures across multiple portfolios. The Minister deflects by attacking the previous government's record and defending his department's actions.
AnsweredQoN 48Legislative Assembly
QuestionView source ↗
MINING — ENVIRONMENTAL CONDITIONS
48. Ms M.J. DAVIES to the Minister for Mines and Petroleum:
I have a supplementary question.
Under the minister's watch, the departments he is in charge of have
reduced their regulatory presence to protect our environment, failed women on
mine sites, failed juveniles in the justice system and failed to keep the
lights on. What is it that the minister does to earn his ministerial salary?
Several members interjected.
The SPEAKER : Order, please!
Those final few words were the member's question; the rest was a preamble.
I could direct the minister not to answer, but I think as a special punishment,
I am going to direct him to give a lengthy answer!
48. Ms M.J. DAVIES to the Minister for Mines and Petroleum:
I have a supplementary question.
Under the minister's watch, the departments he is in charge of have
reduced their regulatory presence to protect our environment, failed women on
mine sites, failed juveniles in the justice system and failed to keep the
lights on. What is it that the minister does to earn his ministerial salary?
Several members interjected.
The SPEAKER : Order, please!
Those final few words were the member's question; the rest was a preamble.
I could direct the minister not to answer, but I think as a special punishment,
I am going to direct him to give a lengthy answer!
AnswerView source ↗
When the member for Central
Wheatbelt was the Minister for Water, how many thousand people got disconnected,
member for Bassendean?
Mr D.J. Kelly : A lot—2
600 a year.
Mr W.J. JOHNSTON : There were
2 600 people losing their water. The former minister was part of a cabinet that destroyed the state's finances. When
this person was in cabinet, every metric for Western Australia went backwards . We were in recession! When this minister was
in charge of the finances of this state, Western Australia had growing unemployment. This is the thing; this is the hypocrisy of the opposition. Let
me go through it. What did the member ask about mining? If she had listened to
the answer I gave, I explained why there is no risk to the environment from the
procedures we agreed to.
Ms R. Saffioti : It is a detailed
answer!
Mr
W.J. JOHNSTON : I do not want to
have any misunderstanding. The Department of Mines, Industry Regulation and Safety is an environmental regulator. People think it is there to promote
activity in the mining industry. It is not. It is an environmental regulator. I
explained in detail why it is possible to temporarily move resources from one
part of the agency to another. Let me make it clear: the approvals are still
environmental regulation. We moved it from the monitoring of environmental
regulation to the implementation of environmental regulation. We did not leave
environmental regulation; we just emphasised a different part of the
environmental procedures. The basis of the allegation regarding that part of
DMIRS shows that the member for Central Wheatbelt is not capable of being a shadow
minister. At the last election, the Association of Mining and Exploration
Companies had a forum, and four people
turned up. I turned up as the minister. The now Leader of the Opposition turned
up as the Nationals WA spokesperson for mines and petroleum. The then
shadow minister, my good friend Bill Marmion, turned up, and I am sorry that I do
not remember who it was from the Greens who turned up. I made the point that I was
the only person there who wanted to be the minister. I want to know: Do
National Party members think they are going to form government at the next
election? Is that how arrogant they are? The Leader of the Opposition said
yesterday that he does not have to do any work to become Premier.
Mr R.S. Love : I didn't say anything of the
sort!
Mr W.J. JOHNSTON : He did. He said that oppositions do
not win; governments lose. That is his plan. His plan is to do no work and he
so arrogantly thinks he is going to become Premier. He arrogantly thinks he is
going to become Premier. This is just ridiculous.
The member for Central Wheatbelt asked about sexual
harassment in the mining industry. For the first time ever, under my leadership
of the Department of Mines, Industry Regulation and Safety, we have elevated
the question of sexual harassment. The inquiry showed that the entire time
members opposite were in government—the member for Central Wheatbelt
was a minister at the table—nothing happened. What we now know is that
businesses have been using hush money to
protect the perpetrators of sexual harassment. I gave a press conference in
December 2021 drawing the attention of the community to the fact that
mining companies had used hush money to protect perpetrators. Now that is an
agreed fact—a year and a half after I pointed it out.
The member asked about keeping the lights on. As I explained
yesterday, people are literally coming from all around the world to see how to
achieve and how to manage the lowest cost electricity in the western world for
household consumers here in Western Australia! It is the lowest cost. I will
also make the point, Madam Speaker, that we
insist on charging the same price to all consumers, including all those in the
National Party, which is a policy that was going to be junked by the
Liberal Party, its coalition partners, at the last election. The Liberal Party
specifically said it was going to junk that policy. We are keeping it. We are
protecting National Party members. Understand this: if the Liberal Party had
got its way, prices for people in regional Western Australia could have gone up
by 1 000 per cent. There are individual towns in Horizon's footprint
where consumers pay one-tenth the cost of supplying that electricity. The
Liberals said they wanted to make it cost reflective.
What was the other one? It was about youth justice. Let me
make it clear. I remind members, and I have quoted this report before—it
was tabled in this chamber in 2012 when the member for Central Wheatbelt was
sitting at the cabinet table —
Ms M.J. Davies : No.
Mr W.J. JOHNSTON : Well, when her team was sitting at
the cabinet table, an Office of the Inspector of Custodial Services report was tabled in this chamber
described how lockdowns were being used for punishment at Banksia Hill Detention Centre. That does not happen and has not happened at any time during
my term —
Several members interjected.
Mr W.J. JOHNSTON : No, members do not understand.
Several members interjected.
Mr W.J. JOHNSTON : Yes, there are lockdowns occurring —
Several members interjected.
Mr W.J. JOHNSTON : Lockdowns are used when it is lawful to do so.
Go and read the Office of the Inspector of Custodial Services'
2012 report in which he described how they were being used as punishment and a methodology
of discipline. I do not accept that, and it does not happen now. This is the
thing: in 2013, the former government moved 85 youth detainees to Hakea Prison,
yet I am criticised because 17 youth detainees have been placed in a separate unit at Casuarina Prison, with no
contact with adult prisoners. The hypocrisy that drips off the Liberal Party and the Nationals WA is disgraceful!
The
SPEAKER : Before I give the
member for Geraldton the call, all questions are at the discretion of the
Speaker. Supplementary questions in particular are at the discretion of
the Speaker. They were introduced into the Legislative Assembly a bit over 20 years
ago now. The concept was that the person who asked the original question could ask a short, sharp second question—just
a question—not on a new topic, but pertaining to the original question .
In response to that, they should get a relatively short answer back, not an
answer the same length as the original answer. The opening question in
Parliament is often about three or four parts long. There are three or four
questions that can raise a number of issues
and therefore we get a lengthier answer. The supplementary question, for it to
work well, needs to be a simple, direct question pertaining to the
original question, and the ministerial response should be on that particular
topic, much more narrowly on the question that was actually asked.
What we have seen today, repeatedly, is people not taking the
advice on supplementary questions. They think that I am just going to let them
keep asking them. I have said that I will not. On this particular occasion, I thought
that it actually deserved a lengthy answer because it was an inappropriate
question and it got an inappropriately long answer. I would ask those members
asking the questions to take that advice on board. I would also ask ministers
perhaps to just consider that your first answer is the lengthy answer and the
supplementary answer should be a relatively short answer. The other thing that
ministers might want to anticipate in giving that first lengthy answer is that
it seems that a supplementary is asked every time, so if there is one more
point the minister wants to make, potentially they could make that as part of
the supplementary answer if it is appropriate.
The member for Geraldton with the
last question.
Wheatbelt was the Minister for Water, how many thousand people got disconnected,
member for Bassendean?
Mr D.J. Kelly : A lot—2
600 a year.
Mr W.J. JOHNSTON : There were
2 600 people losing their water. The former minister was part of a cabinet that destroyed the state's finances. When
this person was in cabinet, every metric for Western Australia went backwards . We were in recession! When this minister was
in charge of the finances of this state, Western Australia had growing unemployment. This is the thing; this is the hypocrisy of the opposition. Let
me go through it. What did the member ask about mining? If she had listened to
the answer I gave, I explained why there is no risk to the environment from the
procedures we agreed to.
Ms R. Saffioti : It is a detailed
answer!
Mr
W.J. JOHNSTON : I do not want to
have any misunderstanding. The Department of Mines, Industry Regulation and Safety is an environmental regulator. People think it is there to promote
activity in the mining industry. It is not. It is an environmental regulator. I
explained in detail why it is possible to temporarily move resources from one
part of the agency to another. Let me make it clear: the approvals are still
environmental regulation. We moved it from the monitoring of environmental
regulation to the implementation of environmental regulation. We did not leave
environmental regulation; we just emphasised a different part of the
environmental procedures. The basis of the allegation regarding that part of
DMIRS shows that the member for Central Wheatbelt is not capable of being a shadow
minister. At the last election, the Association of Mining and Exploration
Companies had a forum, and four people
turned up. I turned up as the minister. The now Leader of the Opposition turned
up as the Nationals WA spokesperson for mines and petroleum. The then
shadow minister, my good friend Bill Marmion, turned up, and I am sorry that I do
not remember who it was from the Greens who turned up. I made the point that I was
the only person there who wanted to be the minister. I want to know: Do
National Party members think they are going to form government at the next
election? Is that how arrogant they are? The Leader of the Opposition said
yesterday that he does not have to do any work to become Premier.
Mr R.S. Love : I didn't say anything of the
sort!
Mr W.J. JOHNSTON : He did. He said that oppositions do
not win; governments lose. That is his plan. His plan is to do no work and he
so arrogantly thinks he is going to become Premier. He arrogantly thinks he is
going to become Premier. This is just ridiculous.
The member for Central Wheatbelt asked about sexual
harassment in the mining industry. For the first time ever, under my leadership
of the Department of Mines, Industry Regulation and Safety, we have elevated
the question of sexual harassment. The inquiry showed that the entire time
members opposite were in government—the member for Central Wheatbelt
was a minister at the table—nothing happened. What we now know is that
businesses have been using hush money to
protect the perpetrators of sexual harassment. I gave a press conference in
December 2021 drawing the attention of the community to the fact that
mining companies had used hush money to protect perpetrators. Now that is an
agreed fact—a year and a half after I pointed it out.
The member asked about keeping the lights on. As I explained
yesterday, people are literally coming from all around the world to see how to
achieve and how to manage the lowest cost electricity in the western world for
household consumers here in Western Australia! It is the lowest cost. I will
also make the point, Madam Speaker, that we
insist on charging the same price to all consumers, including all those in the
National Party, which is a policy that was going to be junked by the
Liberal Party, its coalition partners, at the last election. The Liberal Party
specifically said it was going to junk that policy. We are keeping it. We are
protecting National Party members. Understand this: if the Liberal Party had
got its way, prices for people in regional Western Australia could have gone up
by 1 000 per cent. There are individual towns in Horizon's footprint
where consumers pay one-tenth the cost of supplying that electricity. The
Liberals said they wanted to make it cost reflective.
What was the other one? It was about youth justice. Let me
make it clear. I remind members, and I have quoted this report before—it
was tabled in this chamber in 2012 when the member for Central Wheatbelt was
sitting at the cabinet table —
Ms M.J. Davies : No.
Mr W.J. JOHNSTON : Well, when her team was sitting at
the cabinet table, an Office of the Inspector of Custodial Services report was tabled in this chamber
described how lockdowns were being used for punishment at Banksia Hill Detention Centre. That does not happen and has not happened at any time during
my term —
Several members interjected.
Mr W.J. JOHNSTON : No, members do not understand.
Several members interjected.
Mr W.J. JOHNSTON : Yes, there are lockdowns occurring —
Several members interjected.
Mr W.J. JOHNSTON : Lockdowns are used when it is lawful to do so.
Go and read the Office of the Inspector of Custodial Services'
2012 report in which he described how they were being used as punishment and a methodology
of discipline. I do not accept that, and it does not happen now. This is the
thing: in 2013, the former government moved 85 youth detainees to Hakea Prison,
yet I am criticised because 17 youth detainees have been placed in a separate unit at Casuarina Prison, with no
contact with adult prisoners. The hypocrisy that drips off the Liberal Party and the Nationals WA is disgraceful!
The
SPEAKER : Before I give the
member for Geraldton the call, all questions are at the discretion of the
Speaker. Supplementary questions in particular are at the discretion of
the Speaker. They were introduced into the Legislative Assembly a bit over 20 years
ago now. The concept was that the person who asked the original question could ask a short, sharp second question—just
a question—not on a new topic, but pertaining to the original question .
In response to that, they should get a relatively short answer back, not an
answer the same length as the original answer. The opening question in
Parliament is often about three or four parts long. There are three or four
questions that can raise a number of issues
and therefore we get a lengthier answer. The supplementary question, for it to
work well, needs to be a simple, direct question pertaining to the
original question, and the ministerial response should be on that particular
topic, much more narrowly on the question that was actually asked.
What we have seen today, repeatedly, is people not taking the
advice on supplementary questions. They think that I am just going to let them
keep asking them. I have said that I will not. On this particular occasion, I thought
that it actually deserved a lengthy answer because it was an inappropriate
question and it got an inappropriately long answer. I would ask those members
asking the questions to take that advice on board. I would also ask ministers
perhaps to just consider that your first answer is the lengthy answer and the
supplementary answer should be a relatively short answer. The other thing that
ministers might want to anticipate in giving that first lengthy answer is that
it seems that a supplementary is asked every time, so if there is one more
point the minister wants to make, potentially they could make that as part of
the supplementary answer if it is appropriate.
The member for Geraldton with the
last question.
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