❓ The Premier addresses allegations regarding the Member for Vasse's presence at Dumas House, stating CCTV footage and swipe card records show he was not present during the relevant period. He criticises the Opposition's handling of the matter and FOI requests.
AnsweredQoN 478Legislative Assembly
QuestionView source ↗
MEMBER FOR VASSE — ROAD TRAFFIC INCIDENT —
DUMAS HOUSE
478. Mr S.K. L'ESTRANGE to the
Premier:
I would like to welcome to the
chamber today the principal, deputy principal and the student leadership team
from Highgate Primary School in the member for Perth's electorate.
Premier, I understand that the
Leader of the Opposition has sought that additional closed-circuit television
footage from outside Dumas House on 23 February be made available.
(1) Has the government made any information available to the
opposition?
(2) Will any further access to security information be
provided to the opposition?
DUMAS HOUSE
478. Mr S.K. L'ESTRANGE to the
Premier:
I would like to welcome to the
chamber today the principal, deputy principal and the student leadership team
from Highgate Primary School in the member for Perth's electorate.
Premier, I understand that the
Leader of the Opposition has sought that additional closed-circuit television
footage from outside Dumas House on 23 February be made available.
(1) Has the government made any information available to the
opposition?
(2) Will any further access to security information be
provided to the opposition?
AnswerView source ↗
(1)–(2)
Yes, Mr Speaker, and it is regrettable, once again, that this issue arises. I
take this opportunity to respond to what I understood the Leader of the
Opposition to have said over the weekend. The opposition sought access to CCTV
footage at Dumas House from the night of 22 February and the early morning of
23 February. It also sought access to swipe card records showing people
entering and leaving the building. A couple of issues arise from this. First,
it has been alleged that a security guard saw someone placing bottles into a
rubbish bin on that night.
Mrs M.H. Roberts : By Peter Conran, yes.
Mr C.J. BARNETT : Yes; that allegation
was made, and when that was passed from the employer of the security guard to
Peter Conran, he passed it on to police, as he should do. The security guard
has subsequently made clear to his employer that he actually did not think it
was that night that he saw the bottles being placed in the bin; he thinks it
was an earlier night of work. The employment records show that that particular
security guard was not at work on that night—he was not at work on
either the evening of 22 February or the morning of 23 February.
Several
members interjected.
The SPEAKER : Members!
Mr C.J. BARNETT : Point number one: the
security guard who said he had seen someone placing bottles in the night, says
that upon reflection —
Ms M.M. Quirk interjected.
The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen, I
call you to order for the first time.
Mr J. Norberger interjected.
The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I
call you to order for the first.
Mr C.J. BARNETT : I repeat: the security
guard was mistaken. On reflection, he said it was an earlier night, and when
the employment records were checked, he was not at work at that site on the
night of 22 February or the morning of 23 February—so all the security
guard stuff is untrue.
Several
members interjected.
The SPEAKER : Members!
Mr C.J. BARNETT : Second point, Leader
of the Opposition —
Several
members interjected.
The SPEAKER : Members!
Mr C.J. BARNETT : With respect to the
second issue, which is the closed circuit TV footage—I think this is
important for the public record—there were 44 hours of footage from a
number of cameras from 10.00 pm on 22 February through to 2.00 am on 23
February. There were also swipe card records from 6.00 pm on the Saturday
through to 6.00 am on the Sunday. All that information has been made available
to the police, obviously, and if it was of any use in evidence, there it was.
To the very best of my knowledge none of that footage or the swipe card records
indicate that the member for Vasse was in the building or visited the building.
Indeed, he did, on the Saturday morning at 11.00 am, drop off the vehicle or
something. Therefore, between the hours of the opposition's interest —
Mr P. Papalia : It is easy to find out.
The SPEAKER : Member for Warnbro!
Mr C.J. BARNETT : I
am just telling it, if the member would listen.
Point number two—this is very important for the
public record: late in the evening on Saturday 22 February and the early
morning, in fact through to the morning itself, on 23 February, the member for
Vasse was not in the building and not in the vicinity. There is no record on
the CCTV footage. There are 44 hours of camera footage —
Mr J.R. Quigley interjected.
The SPEAKER :
Member for Butler, I call you to order for the first time.
Mr C.J. BARNETT :
There are 44 hours of footage and hours of records of swipe card access, and
there is no indication or no record of the member for Vasse being in the
building.
The third point I make is the opposition's request
for information. On the weekend, the Leader of the Opposition called for that
information—the CCTV footage and the swipe card records—to be
made available to the opposition. As I said, this has already been provided to
the police, obviously, for their use. This was not the first application—in
fact the opposition has not made the second FOI application. It made an FOI
application to view the material, and it viewed it. A staffer from the Leader
of the Opposition's office—this is important for the public
record —
Several members interjected.
The SPEAKER :
Members!
Mr C.J. BARNETT : A
staffer from the Leader of the Opposition's office —
Several members interjected.
The SPEAKER :
Members!
Mr C.J. BARNETT :
This has been a big issue in Western Australia and the opposition is required
to listen to the truth.
Several members interjected.
The SPEAKER :
Members for Warnbro and Albany, I call you to order for the second time. Member
for Bassendean, I call you to order for the first time.
Mr C.J. BARNETT : A
staffer from the Leader of the Opposition's office—I understand
it was Mr Michael Watts—on 17 April, at 140 William Street, viewed the
swipe card records from 6.00 pm on the Saturday to 6.00 am on the Sunday
morning. He also viewed the closed-circuit television footage, principally
between 10.00 pm on the Saturday night and 2.00 am the next morning. The
footage did not show the member for Vasse and nor did the swipe card records
indicate that the member for Vasse had been in the building. The staffer,
having viewed the material, was offered the opportunity to view any other
footage of that period—bearing in mind there are 44 hours of it—and
he declined to see any more, understandably, because there was nothing to see.
There was nothing to see and he was offered the opportunity to view more.
Leader of the Opposition, I admit that it is a public issue and, as I have said
before, in no way do I excuse or condone the activities of that evening, but
last week, in this house—I doubt Hansard picked it up—the
Leader of the Opposition accused me and the government of concealing criminal
activity. That is what he said and we heard it: concealing criminal activity.
The security guard was mistaken; in fact, he was not even at work. Also, the
CCTV footage, to the best of my knowledge—the police examined it—did
not show the member for Vasse and the swipe card records did not show that. The
Leader of the Opposition did not make clear to the media and the public of
Western Australia over the weekend and previously, when he went out and
demanded to see the footage and swipe card records, that his staffer had
already seen it. The Leader of the Opposition may talk about lying in this
chamber, as he frequently talks about lying —
Several members interjected.
The SPEAKER :
Members!
Mr C.J. BARNETT :
He frequently talks about lying in this chamber.
Point of Order
Mr
P.B. WATSON : The Premier accused the Leader of the Opposition of
lying.
The
SPEAKER : I never heard that.
Questions without Notice Resumed
Mr C.J. BARNETT :
As I said, the Leader of the Opposition has repeatedly talked about lying and
made accusations about members on this side of the house. Why did the Leader of
the Opposition lack truth and not tell the media that his staff member had
already seen the records and viewed the footage? I make the offer to the Leader
of the Opposition now: if he wishes to sit down and view 44 hours of footage,
he can do so.
SENIORS —
CONCESSION FUNDING
479. Ms M.M. QUIRK to the
Minister for Seniors and Volunteering:
Before I ask my question —
Mr P.T. Miles interjected.
The SPEAKER :
Member for Wanneroo, I call you to order for the first time.
Ms M.M. QUIRK :
Before I ask my question, I acknowledge the staff and students from Christian
Brothers College Fremantle and Mandurah Baptist College.
I refer to the minister's comments at the seniors'
forum on Friday, when he led those in attendance to believe that he would act
on their concerns. Why did the minister give seniors false hope when he knew
all along that his government would cut their rebates four days later?
Mr
A.J. SIMPSON replied:
I thank the member for the question. A clear statement I have
made in this house is that I will try to protect the most vulnerable in our
community. Those who hold a Seniors Card, a commonwealth pension card or a
Commonwealth Seniors Health Card, and those who hold all three cards, get a
variety of discounts. A person who has only a WA Seniors Card gets a 25 per cent
discount on their council rates, but a person who has a Commonwealth Seniors Health
Card and a pension card gets a 50 per cent discount on their council rates. The
variation between the two or three cards is quite long and convoluted. I was
very conscious, when we went down this road of trying to make savings—as
the Premier pointed out, as of 1 July this year we will lose $25 million from
the commonwealth partnership—that we looked at a raft of measures to
ensure that they would impact on seniors as little as possible.
The interesting part is that the member has raised a good
point. When we look at any of the discounts that we give out, I must admit,
member for Girrawheen, that a lot of them go through a raft of agencies and
ministers, including transport, energy, health and so forth, and it comes back
to me as Minister for Seniors and Volunteering to pay those rebates. But there
is still $405 million fully committed by the state government in that bucket of
money. The government has looked at a raft of possible things that can be done
to minimise the impact on seniors in WA, and a decision was made only yesterday
to look at how that can be done with the least impact on them. One thing that
has come out loud and clear—the Premier pointed this out, as did the
seniors group that I met with last Tuesday and today, and at the rally last Friday—is
the 16 concessions that are given out, which include vehicle registrations; bus
fares; ferry fares; rail fares; electricity; spectacles; the emergency services
levy; local government rates; water rates; drivers' licences; air
conditioning; free entry into museums, galleries, and national parks; fishing
licences; the safety security rebate; and the cost-of-living rebate. The
cost-of-living rebate was brought in by this government.
Mr P. Papalia : Did
you know on Friday?
Mr A.J. SIMPSON : I
did, member for Warnbro. The cost-of-living rebate was brought in during the
2008 state election process as a fair deal for seniors when the government
flagged the process of giving a cost-of-living rebate to seniors. At the end of
the day, the government has gone through our election commitment to back-fund a
$25 million loss. As the Premier pointed out, the government has absorbed
nearly $5 million of that; it has taken only $20 million off the cost-of-living
rebate. All cuts are hard to do, Mr Speaker. This is part of that process, but
I am pretty sure that the government has made the right decision in supporting
seniors in our community and having a look at it.
Lastly, I want to add that as we go through this process one
of the clear things now is that we will probably have to review the eligibility
of the WA Seniors Card.
Mr D.A. Templeman :
More cuts to come!
Mr A.J. SIMPSON :
The eligibility for the card has been raised by the seniors group that I met
with. I think the age eligibility has to be looked at. I think 60 is the new
50, and maybe we need to look at raising the age qualification for the card.
But all of those things cannot happen overnight; they have to be looked at as a
large review to make sure—to raise the exact issue the member for
Girrawheen raises with me about pensioners in our community—that we
support them in this process.
Mr D.A. Templeman interjected.
The SPEAKER :
Member for Mandurah, I can actually see and hear you; I call you to order for
the first time.
Mr A.J. SIMPSON : I
finish by saying that WA is the only state in Australia that gives any cash
payment at all to WA seniors. I am proud of the fact that we acknowledge
seniors in our community and make sure that we give them those payments. It is
important to acknowledge that they are still getting a cash payment of $123 as
couples and $81 as singles and that all the concessions will stay in place.
Yes, Mr Speaker, and it is regrettable, once again, that this issue arises. I
take this opportunity to respond to what I understood the Leader of the
Opposition to have said over the weekend. The opposition sought access to CCTV
footage at Dumas House from the night of 22 February and the early morning of
23 February. It also sought access to swipe card records showing people
entering and leaving the building. A couple of issues arise from this. First,
it has been alleged that a security guard saw someone placing bottles into a
rubbish bin on that night.
Mrs M.H. Roberts : By Peter Conran, yes.
Mr C.J. BARNETT : Yes; that allegation
was made, and when that was passed from the employer of the security guard to
Peter Conran, he passed it on to police, as he should do. The security guard
has subsequently made clear to his employer that he actually did not think it
was that night that he saw the bottles being placed in the bin; he thinks it
was an earlier night of work. The employment records show that that particular
security guard was not at work on that night—he was not at work on
either the evening of 22 February or the morning of 23 February.
Several
members interjected.
The SPEAKER : Members!
Mr C.J. BARNETT : Point number one: the
security guard who said he had seen someone placing bottles in the night, says
that upon reflection —
Ms M.M. Quirk interjected.
The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen, I
call you to order for the first time.
Mr J. Norberger interjected.
The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I
call you to order for the first.
Mr C.J. BARNETT : I repeat: the security
guard was mistaken. On reflection, he said it was an earlier night, and when
the employment records were checked, he was not at work at that site on the
night of 22 February or the morning of 23 February—so all the security
guard stuff is untrue.
Several
members interjected.
The SPEAKER : Members!
Mr C.J. BARNETT : Second point, Leader
of the Opposition —
Several
members interjected.
The SPEAKER : Members!
Mr C.J. BARNETT : With respect to the
second issue, which is the closed circuit TV footage—I think this is
important for the public record—there were 44 hours of footage from a
number of cameras from 10.00 pm on 22 February through to 2.00 am on 23
February. There were also swipe card records from 6.00 pm on the Saturday
through to 6.00 am on the Sunday. All that information has been made available
to the police, obviously, and if it was of any use in evidence, there it was.
To the very best of my knowledge none of that footage or the swipe card records
indicate that the member for Vasse was in the building or visited the building.
Indeed, he did, on the Saturday morning at 11.00 am, drop off the vehicle or
something. Therefore, between the hours of the opposition's interest —
Mr P. Papalia : It is easy to find out.
The SPEAKER : Member for Warnbro!
Mr C.J. BARNETT : I
am just telling it, if the member would listen.
Point number two—this is very important for the
public record: late in the evening on Saturday 22 February and the early
morning, in fact through to the morning itself, on 23 February, the member for
Vasse was not in the building and not in the vicinity. There is no record on
the CCTV footage. There are 44 hours of camera footage —
Mr J.R. Quigley interjected.
The SPEAKER :
Member for Butler, I call you to order for the first time.
Mr C.J. BARNETT :
There are 44 hours of footage and hours of records of swipe card access, and
there is no indication or no record of the member for Vasse being in the
building.
The third point I make is the opposition's request
for information. On the weekend, the Leader of the Opposition called for that
information—the CCTV footage and the swipe card records—to be
made available to the opposition. As I said, this has already been provided to
the police, obviously, for their use. This was not the first application—in
fact the opposition has not made the second FOI application. It made an FOI
application to view the material, and it viewed it. A staffer from the Leader
of the Opposition's office—this is important for the public
record —
Several members interjected.
The SPEAKER :
Members!
Mr C.J. BARNETT : A
staffer from the Leader of the Opposition's office —
Several members interjected.
The SPEAKER :
Members!
Mr C.J. BARNETT :
This has been a big issue in Western Australia and the opposition is required
to listen to the truth.
Several members interjected.
The SPEAKER :
Members for Warnbro and Albany, I call you to order for the second time. Member
for Bassendean, I call you to order for the first time.
Mr C.J. BARNETT : A
staffer from the Leader of the Opposition's office—I understand
it was Mr Michael Watts—on 17 April, at 140 William Street, viewed the
swipe card records from 6.00 pm on the Saturday to 6.00 am on the Sunday
morning. He also viewed the closed-circuit television footage, principally
between 10.00 pm on the Saturday night and 2.00 am the next morning. The
footage did not show the member for Vasse and nor did the swipe card records
indicate that the member for Vasse had been in the building. The staffer,
having viewed the material, was offered the opportunity to view any other
footage of that period—bearing in mind there are 44 hours of it—and
he declined to see any more, understandably, because there was nothing to see.
There was nothing to see and he was offered the opportunity to view more.
Leader of the Opposition, I admit that it is a public issue and, as I have said
before, in no way do I excuse or condone the activities of that evening, but
last week, in this house—I doubt Hansard picked it up—the
Leader of the Opposition accused me and the government of concealing criminal
activity. That is what he said and we heard it: concealing criminal activity.
The security guard was mistaken; in fact, he was not even at work. Also, the
CCTV footage, to the best of my knowledge—the police examined it—did
not show the member for Vasse and the swipe card records did not show that. The
Leader of the Opposition did not make clear to the media and the public of
Western Australia over the weekend and previously, when he went out and
demanded to see the footage and swipe card records, that his staffer had
already seen it. The Leader of the Opposition may talk about lying in this
chamber, as he frequently talks about lying —
Several members interjected.
The SPEAKER :
Members!
Mr C.J. BARNETT :
He frequently talks about lying in this chamber.
Point of Order
Mr
P.B. WATSON : The Premier accused the Leader of the Opposition of
lying.
The
SPEAKER : I never heard that.
Questions without Notice Resumed
Mr C.J. BARNETT :
As I said, the Leader of the Opposition has repeatedly talked about lying and
made accusations about members on this side of the house. Why did the Leader of
the Opposition lack truth and not tell the media that his staff member had
already seen the records and viewed the footage? I make the offer to the Leader
of the Opposition now: if he wishes to sit down and view 44 hours of footage,
he can do so.
SENIORS —
CONCESSION FUNDING
479. Ms M.M. QUIRK to the
Minister for Seniors and Volunteering:
Before I ask my question —
Mr P.T. Miles interjected.
The SPEAKER :
Member for Wanneroo, I call you to order for the first time.
Ms M.M. QUIRK :
Before I ask my question, I acknowledge the staff and students from Christian
Brothers College Fremantle and Mandurah Baptist College.
I refer to the minister's comments at the seniors'
forum on Friday, when he led those in attendance to believe that he would act
on their concerns. Why did the minister give seniors false hope when he knew
all along that his government would cut their rebates four days later?
Mr
A.J. SIMPSON replied:
I thank the member for the question. A clear statement I have
made in this house is that I will try to protect the most vulnerable in our
community. Those who hold a Seniors Card, a commonwealth pension card or a
Commonwealth Seniors Health Card, and those who hold all three cards, get a
variety of discounts. A person who has only a WA Seniors Card gets a 25 per cent
discount on their council rates, but a person who has a Commonwealth Seniors Health
Card and a pension card gets a 50 per cent discount on their council rates. The
variation between the two or three cards is quite long and convoluted. I was
very conscious, when we went down this road of trying to make savings—as
the Premier pointed out, as of 1 July this year we will lose $25 million from
the commonwealth partnership—that we looked at a raft of measures to
ensure that they would impact on seniors as little as possible.
The interesting part is that the member has raised a good
point. When we look at any of the discounts that we give out, I must admit,
member for Girrawheen, that a lot of them go through a raft of agencies and
ministers, including transport, energy, health and so forth, and it comes back
to me as Minister for Seniors and Volunteering to pay those rebates. But there
is still $405 million fully committed by the state government in that bucket of
money. The government has looked at a raft of possible things that can be done
to minimise the impact on seniors in WA, and a decision was made only yesterday
to look at how that can be done with the least impact on them. One thing that
has come out loud and clear—the Premier pointed this out, as did the
seniors group that I met with last Tuesday and today, and at the rally last Friday—is
the 16 concessions that are given out, which include vehicle registrations; bus
fares; ferry fares; rail fares; electricity; spectacles; the emergency services
levy; local government rates; water rates; drivers' licences; air
conditioning; free entry into museums, galleries, and national parks; fishing
licences; the safety security rebate; and the cost-of-living rebate. The
cost-of-living rebate was brought in by this government.
Mr P. Papalia : Did
you know on Friday?
Mr A.J. SIMPSON : I
did, member for Warnbro. The cost-of-living rebate was brought in during the
2008 state election process as a fair deal for seniors when the government
flagged the process of giving a cost-of-living rebate to seniors. At the end of
the day, the government has gone through our election commitment to back-fund a
$25 million loss. As the Premier pointed out, the government has absorbed
nearly $5 million of that; it has taken only $20 million off the cost-of-living
rebate. All cuts are hard to do, Mr Speaker. This is part of that process, but
I am pretty sure that the government has made the right decision in supporting
seniors in our community and having a look at it.
Lastly, I want to add that as we go through this process one
of the clear things now is that we will probably have to review the eligibility
of the WA Seniors Card.
Mr D.A. Templeman :
More cuts to come!
Mr A.J. SIMPSON :
The eligibility for the card has been raised by the seniors group that I met
with. I think the age eligibility has to be looked at. I think 60 is the new
50, and maybe we need to look at raising the age qualification for the card.
But all of those things cannot happen overnight; they have to be looked at as a
large review to make sure—to raise the exact issue the member for
Girrawheen raises with me about pensioners in our community—that we
support them in this process.
Mr D.A. Templeman interjected.
The SPEAKER :
Member for Mandurah, I can actually see and hear you; I call you to order for
the first time.
Mr A.J. SIMPSON : I
finish by saying that WA is the only state in Australia that gives any cash
payment at all to WA seniors. I am proud of the fact that we acknowledge
seniors in our community and make sure that we give them those payments. It is
important to acknowledge that they are still getting a cash payment of $123 as
couples and $81 as singles and that all the concessions will stay in place.
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