❓ Dr. Hames questions the Minister for Health on the accuracy of nurse staffing numbers, alleging inflated figures due to double shifts and agency nurses. The Minister defends the figures, citing an increase in full-time equivalent and total nurses since 2001, while cautioning against misinformation during enterprise bargaining.
AnsweredQoN 510Legislative Assembly
QuestionView source ↗
NURSE SHORTAGE
I refer to the massive shortage of nurses in our hospitals. (1) Can the minister explain why his method of calculating nurse numbers does not accurately represent the actual number of nursing staff on board? (2) Will the minister confirm that his statistics count nurses who work double shifts as additional nurses even though the same nurse is working extended hours? (3) Will the minister confirm that his numbers also include agency nurses who are filling in because of the dire straits in nursing numbers? (4) How can the minister say that this is an acceptable process when we are in the midst of a health crisis, which is largely due to his failure to manage the health system? Mr J.A. McGINTY
I refer to the massive shortage of nurses in our hospitals. (1) Can the minister explain why his method of calculating nurse numbers does not accurately represent the actual number of nursing staff on board? (2) Will the minister confirm that his statistics count nurses who work double shifts as additional nurses even though the same nurse is working extended hours? (3) Will the minister confirm that his numbers also include agency nurses who are filling in because of the dire straits in nursing numbers? (4) How can the minister say that this is an acceptable process when we are in the midst of a health crisis, which is largely due to his failure to manage the health system? Mr J.A. McGINTY
AnswerView source ↗
I first want to correct something that I think I said mistakenly in answer to the last question about funding for the Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions. The member for Vasse noted that my mental arithmetic was not good. I indicated that the Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions had received an 84 per cent increase in funding. I meant to say 64 per cent. In any event, a 64 per cent increase is a decent increase. I will now answer the member for Dawesville’s question. (1)-(4) When we came to power in 2001, there were 7 977 full-time equivalent nurses working in the public hospital system. The current figure is 10 143, which is an increase of more than 2 000 full-time equivalent nurses. That is a greater than 27 per cent increase in the number of full-time equivalent nurses working in our system. That number excludes agency nurses but, as the member for Dawesville knows, the way in which full-time equivalents are calculated is by looking at the total salary bill, which includes people who work double shifts and things of that nature. That does not represent an enormous component. To give greater insight, a headcount of the number of nurses ward by ward through every hospital in the state was 10 518 in February 2002, which was the closest figure that I could get. That figure included part-time nurses. In February 2007, the number increased to 12 997. That is an increase of 2 500 actual bodies working in the wards in our hospitals. Dr K.D. Hames interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY : I have referred to Department of Health figures on nurses. I am aware that the Australian Nursing Federation’s enterprise bargaining agreement negotiations are coming to a head and that there is therefore a vested interest in circulating information that may not be completely accurate from sources outside the Department of Health. Over the past five years an additional 2 500 nurses have been working in our hospitals and we have had 2 000 additional full-time equivalent nurses. That is either a 24 per cent or a 27 per cent increase depending on the yardstick one wants to use. That is a massive increase in the number of nurses working in our public hospital system. We must work on the basis that there are thousands more nurses working in our public hospital system today. Dr K.D. Hames : Where are they? We do not see them in the hospitals. There are the same number of beds that we had six years ago. Remember, they were coming down and then they levelled out and now they are going up again. There are fewer beds than we would have had 10 years ago. Mr J.A. McGINTY : The member can argue if we wants to, but they are the figures. The appropriate figure to use is that the number of nurses has increased from nearly 8 000 in 2001 to more than 10 000 today. That is an increase of about 2 200 nurses working in our hospitals. There has been some misinformation - unfortunately, it was broadcast yesterday morning on ABC radio for which I generally have no criticism - about the number of hospital beds and, in particular, mental health nurses. In 2001-02 there were 1 195 full-time equivalent mental health nurses and today there are 1 439 FTE mental health nurses working in our system. That is an increase of 20 per cent. All I am suggesting to members is that they take with a pinch of salt that which they hear during the enterprise bargaining agreement negotiations.
(1) Can the minister explain why his method of calculating nurse numbers does not accurately represent the actual number of nursing staff on board? (2) Will the minister confirm that his statistics count nurses who work double shifts as additional nurses even though the same nurse is working extended hours? (3) Will the minister confirm that his numbers also include agency nurses who are filling in because of the dire straits in nursing numbers? (4) How can the minister say that this is an acceptable process when we are in the midst of a health crisis, which is largely due to his failure to manage the health system? Mr J.A. McGINTY replied: I first want to correct something that I think I said mistakenly in answer to the last question about funding for the Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions. The member for Vasse noted that my mental arithmetic was not good. I indicated that the Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions had received an 84 per cent increase in funding. I meant to say 64 per cent. In any event, a 64 per cent increase is a decent increase. I will now answer the member for Dawesville’s question. (1)-(4) When we came to power in 2001, there were 7 977 full-time equivalent nurses working in the public hospital system. The current figure is 10 143, which is an increase of more than 2 000 full-time equivalent nurses. That is a greater than 27 per cent increase in the number of full-time equivalent nurses working in our system. That number excludes agency nurses but, as the member for Dawesville knows, the way in which full-time equivalents are calculated is by looking at the total salary bill, which includes people who work double shifts and things of that nature. That does not represent an enormous component. To give greater insight, a headcount of the number of nurses ward by ward through every hospital in the state was 10 518 in February 2002, which was the closest figure that I could get. That figure included part-time nurses. In February 2007, the number increased to 12 997. That is an increase of 2 500 actual bodies working in the wards in our hospitals. Dr K.D. Hames interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY : I have referred to Department of Health figures on nurses. I am aware that the Australian Nursing Federation’s enterprise bargaining agreement negotiations are coming to a head and that there is therefore a vested interest in circulating information that may not be completely accurate from sources outside the Department of Health. Over the past five years an additional 2 500 nurses have been working in our hospitals and we have had 2 000 additional full-time equivalent nurses. That is either a 24 per cent or a 27 per cent increase depending on the yardstick one wants to use. That is a massive increase in the number of nurses working in our public hospital system. We must work on the basis that there are thousands more nurses working in our public hospital system today. Dr K.D. Hames : Where are they? We do not see them in the hospitals. There are the same number of beds that we had six years ago. Remember, they were coming down and then they levelled out and now they are going up again. There are fewer beds than we would have had 10 years ago. Mr J.A. McGINTY : The member can argue if we wants to, but they are the figures. The appropriate figure to use is that the number of nurses has increased from nearly 8 000 in 2001 to more than 10 000 today. That is an increase of about 2 200 nurses working in our hospitals. There has been some misinformation - unfortunately, it was broadcast yesterday morning on ABC radio for which I generally have no criticism - about the number of hospital beds and, in particular, mental health nurses. In 2001-02 there were 1 195 full-time equivalent mental health nurses and today there are 1 439 FTE mental health nurses working in our system. That is an increase of 20 per cent. All I am suggesting to members is that they take with a pinch of salt that which they hear during the enterprise bargaining agreement negotiations.
(2) Will the minister confirm that his statistics count nurses who work double shifts as additional nurses even though the same nurse is working extended hours? (3) Will the minister confirm that his numbers also include agency nurses who are filling in because of the dire straits in nursing numbers? (4) How can the minister say that this is an acceptable process when we are in the midst of a health crisis, which is largely due to his failure to manage the health system? Mr J.A. McGINTY replied: I first want to correct something that I think I said mistakenly in answer to the last question about funding for the Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions. The member for Vasse noted that my mental arithmetic was not good. I indicated that the Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions had received an 84 per cent increase in funding. I meant to say 64 per cent. In any event, a 64 per cent increase is a decent increase. I will now answer the member for Dawesville’s question. (1)-(4) When we came to power in 2001, there were 7 977 full-time equivalent nurses working in the public hospital system. The current figure is 10 143, which is an increase of more than 2 000 full-time equivalent nurses. That is a greater than 27 per cent increase in the number of full-time equivalent nurses working in our system. That number excludes agency nurses but, as the member for Dawesville knows, the way in which full-time equivalents are calculated is by looking at the total salary bill, which includes people who work double shifts and things of that nature. That does not represent an enormous component. To give greater insight, a headcount of the number of nurses ward by ward through every hospital in the state was 10 518 in February 2002, which was the closest figure that I could get. That figure included part-time nurses. In February 2007, the number increased to 12 997. That is an increase of 2 500 actual bodies working in the wards in our hospitals. Dr K.D. Hames interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY : I have referred to Department of Health figures on nurses. I am aware that the Australian Nursing Federation’s enterprise bargaining agreement negotiations are coming to a head and that there is therefore a vested interest in circulating information that may not be completely accurate from sources outside the Department of Health. Over the past five years an additional 2 500 nurses have been working in our hospitals and we have had 2 000 additional full-time equivalent nurses. That is either a 24 per cent or a 27 per cent increase depending on the yardstick one wants to use. That is a massive increase in the number of nurses working in our public hospital system. We must work on the basis that there are thousands more nurses working in our public hospital system today. Dr K.D. Hames : Where are they? We do not see them in the hospitals. There are the same number of beds that we had six years ago. Remember, they were coming down and then they levelled out and now they are going up again. There are fewer beds than we would have had 10 years ago. Mr J.A. McGINTY : The member can argue if we wants to, but they are the figures. The appropriate figure to use is that the number of nurses has increased from nearly 8 000 in 2001 to more than 10 000 today. That is an increase of about 2 200 nurses working in our hospitals. There has been some misinformation - unfortunately, it was broadcast yesterday morning on ABC radio for which I generally have no criticism - about the number of hospital beds and, in particular, mental health nurses. In 2001-02 there were 1 195 full-time equivalent mental health nurses and today there are 1 439 FTE mental health nurses working in our system. That is an increase of 20 per cent. All I am suggesting to members is that they take with a pinch of salt that which they hear during the enterprise bargaining agreement negotiations.
(3) Will the minister confirm that his numbers also include agency nurses who are filling in because of the dire straits in nursing numbers? (4) How can the minister say that this is an acceptable process when we are in the midst of a health crisis, which is largely due to his failure to manage the health system? Mr J.A. McGINTY replied: I first want to correct something that I think I said mistakenly in answer to the last question about funding for the Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions. The member for Vasse noted that my mental arithmetic was not good. I indicated that the Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions had received an 84 per cent increase in funding. I meant to say 64 per cent. In any event, a 64 per cent increase is a decent increase. I will now answer the member for Dawesville’s question. (1)-(4) When we came to power in 2001, there were 7 977 full-time equivalent nurses working in the public hospital system. The current figure is 10 143, which is an increase of more than 2 000 full-time equivalent nurses. That is a greater than 27 per cent increase in the number of full-time equivalent nurses working in our system. That number excludes agency nurses but, as the member for Dawesville knows, the way in which full-time equivalents are calculated is by looking at the total salary bill, which includes people who work double shifts and things of that nature. That does not represent an enormous component. To give greater insight, a headcount of the number of nurses ward by ward through every hospital in the state was 10 518 in February 2002, which was the closest figure that I could get. That figure included part-time nurses. In February 2007, the number increased to 12 997. That is an increase of 2 500 actual bodies working in the wards in our hospitals. Dr K.D. Hames interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY : I have referred to Department of Health figures on nurses. I am aware that the Australian Nursing Federation’s enterprise bargaining agreement negotiations are coming to a head and that there is therefore a vested interest in circulating information that may not be completely accurate from sources outside the Department of Health. Over the past five years an additional 2 500 nurses have been working in our hospitals and we have had 2 000 additional full-time equivalent nurses. That is either a 24 per cent or a 27 per cent increase depending on the yardstick one wants to use. That is a massive increase in the number of nurses working in our public hospital system. We must work on the basis that there are thousands more nurses working in our public hospital system today. Dr K.D. Hames : Where are they? We do not see them in the hospitals. There are the same number of beds that we had six years ago. Remember, they were coming down and then they levelled out and now they are going up again. There are fewer beds than we would have had 10 years ago. Mr J.A. McGINTY : The member can argue if we wants to, but they are the figures. The appropriate figure to use is that the number of nurses has increased from nearly 8 000 in 2001 to more than 10 000 today. That is an increase of about 2 200 nurses working in our hospitals. There has been some misinformation - unfortunately, it was broadcast yesterday morning on ABC radio for which I generally have no criticism - about the number of hospital beds and, in particular, mental health nurses. In 2001-02 there were 1 195 full-time equivalent mental health nurses and today there are 1 439 FTE mental health nurses working in our system. That is an increase of 20 per cent. All I am suggesting to members is that they take with a pinch of salt that which they hear during the enterprise bargaining agreement negotiations.
(4) How can the minister say that this is an acceptable process when we are in the midst of a health crisis, which is largely due to his failure to manage the health system? Mr J.A. McGINTY replied: I first want to correct something that I think I said mistakenly in answer to the last question about funding for the Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions. The member for Vasse noted that my mental arithmetic was not good. I indicated that the Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions had received an 84 per cent increase in funding. I meant to say 64 per cent. In any event, a 64 per cent increase is a decent increase. I will now answer the member for Dawesville’s question. (1)-(4) When we came to power in 2001, there were 7 977 full-time equivalent nurses working in the public hospital system. The current figure is 10 143, which is an increase of more than 2 000 full-time equivalent nurses. That is a greater than 27 per cent increase in the number of full-time equivalent nurses working in our system. That number excludes agency nurses but, as the member for Dawesville knows, the way in which full-time equivalents are calculated is by looking at the total salary bill, which includes people who work double shifts and things of that nature. That does not represent an enormous component. To give greater insight, a headcount of the number of nurses ward by ward through every hospital in the state was 10 518 in February 2002, which was the closest figure that I could get. That figure included part-time nurses. In February 2007, the number increased to 12 997. That is an increase of 2 500 actual bodies working in the wards in our hospitals. Dr K.D. Hames interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY : I have referred to Department of Health figures on nurses. I am aware that the Australian Nursing Federation’s enterprise bargaining agreement negotiations are coming to a head and that there is therefore a vested interest in circulating information that may not be completely accurate from sources outside the Department of Health. Over the past five years an additional 2 500 nurses have been working in our hospitals and we have had 2 000 additional full-time equivalent nurses. That is either a 24 per cent or a 27 per cent increase depending on the yardstick one wants to use. That is a massive increase in the number of nurses working in our public hospital system. We must work on the basis that there are thousands more nurses working in our public hospital system today. Dr K.D. Hames : Where are they? We do not see them in the hospitals. There are the same number of beds that we had six years ago. Remember, they were coming down and then they levelled out and now they are going up again. There are fewer beds than we would have had 10 years ago. Mr J.A. McGINTY : The member can argue if we wants to, but they are the figures. The appropriate figure to use is that the number of nurses has increased from nearly 8 000 in 2001 to more than 10 000 today. That is an increase of about 2 200 nurses working in our hospitals. There has been some misinformation - unfortunately, it was broadcast yesterday morning on ABC radio for which I generally have no criticism - about the number of hospital beds and, in particular, mental health nurses. In 2001-02 there were 1 195 full-time equivalent mental health nurses and today there are 1 439 FTE mental health nurses working in our system. That is an increase of 20 per cent. All I am suggesting to members is that they take with a pinch of salt that which they hear during the enterprise bargaining agreement negotiations.
Mr J.A. McGINTY replied: I first want to correct something that I think I said mistakenly in answer to the last question about funding for the Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions. The member for Vasse noted that my mental arithmetic was not good. I indicated that the Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions had received an 84 per cent increase in funding. I meant to say 64 per cent. In any event, a 64 per cent increase is a decent increase. I will now answer the member for Dawesville’s question. (1)-(4) When we came to power in 2001, there were 7 977 full-time equivalent nurses working in the public hospital system. The current figure is 10 143, which is an increase of more than 2 000 full-time equivalent nurses. That is a greater than 27 per cent increase in the number of full-time equivalent nurses working in our system. That number excludes agency nurses but, as the member for Dawesville knows, the way in which full-time equivalents are calculated is by looking at the total salary bill, which includes people who work double shifts and things of that nature. That does not represent an enormous component. To give greater insight, a headcount of the number of nurses ward by ward through every hospital in the state was 10 518 in February 2002, which was the closest figure that I could get. That figure included part-time nurses. In February 2007, the number increased to 12 997. That is an increase of 2 500 actual bodies working in the wards in our hospitals. Dr K.D. Hames interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY : I have referred to Department of Health figures on nurses. I am aware that the Australian Nursing Federation’s enterprise bargaining agreement negotiations are coming to a head and that there is therefore a vested interest in circulating information that may not be completely accurate from sources outside the Department of Health. Over the past five years an additional 2 500 nurses have been working in our hospitals and we have had 2 000 additional full-time equivalent nurses. That is either a 24 per cent or a 27 per cent increase depending on the yardstick one wants to use. That is a massive increase in the number of nurses working in our public hospital system. We must work on the basis that there are thousands more nurses working in our public hospital system today. Dr K.D. Hames : Where are they? We do not see them in the hospitals. There are the same number of beds that we had six years ago. Remember, they were coming down and then they levelled out and now they are going up again. There are fewer beds than we would have had 10 years ago. Mr J.A. McGINTY : The member can argue if we wants to, but they are the figures. The appropriate figure to use is that the number of nurses has increased from nearly 8 000 in 2001 to more than 10 000 today. That is an increase of about 2 200 nurses working in our hospitals. There has been some misinformation - unfortunately, it was broadcast yesterday morning on ABC radio for which I generally have no criticism - about the number of hospital beds and, in particular, mental health nurses. In 2001-02 there were 1 195 full-time equivalent mental health nurses and today there are 1 439 FTE mental health nurses working in our system. That is an increase of 20 per cent. All I am suggesting to members is that they take with a pinch of salt that which they hear during the enterprise bargaining agreement negotiations.
I first want to correct something that I think I said mistakenly in answer to the last question about funding for the Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions. The member for Vasse noted that my mental arithmetic was not good. I indicated that the Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions had received an 84 per cent increase in funding. I meant to say 64 per cent. In any event, a 64 per cent increase is a decent increase. I will now answer the member for Dawesville’s question. (1)-(4) When we came to power in 2001, there were 7 977 full-time equivalent nurses working in the public hospital system. The current figure is 10 143, which is an increase of more than 2 000 full-time equivalent nurses. That is a greater than 27 per cent increase in the number of full-time equivalent nurses working in our system. That number excludes agency nurses but, as the member for Dawesville knows, the way in which full-time equivalents are calculated is by looking at the total salary bill, which includes people who work double shifts and things of that nature. That does not represent an enormous component. To give greater insight, a headcount of the number of nurses ward by ward through every hospital in the state was 10 518 in February 2002, which was the closest figure that I could get. That figure included part-time nurses. In February 2007, the number increased to 12 997. That is an increase of 2 500 actual bodies working in the wards in our hospitals. Dr K.D. Hames interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY : I have referred to Department of Health figures on nurses. I am aware that the Australian Nursing Federation’s enterprise bargaining agreement negotiations are coming to a head and that there is therefore a vested interest in circulating information that may not be completely accurate from sources outside the Department of Health. Over the past five years an additional 2 500 nurses have been working in our hospitals and we have had 2 000 additional full-time equivalent nurses. That is either a 24 per cent or a 27 per cent increase depending on the yardstick one wants to use. That is a massive increase in the number of nurses working in our public hospital system. We must work on the basis that there are thousands more nurses working in our public hospital system today. Dr K.D. Hames : Where are they? We do not see them in the hospitals. There are the same number of beds that we had six years ago. Remember, they were coming down and then they levelled out and now they are going up again. There are fewer beds than we would have had 10 years ago. Mr J.A. McGINTY : The member can argue if we wants to, but they are the figures. The appropriate figure to use is that the number of nurses has increased from nearly 8 000 in 2001 to more than 10 000 today. That is an increase of about 2 200 nurses working in our hospitals. There has been some misinformation - unfortunately, it was broadcast yesterday morning on ABC radio for which I generally have no criticism - about the number of hospital beds and, in particular, mental health nurses. In 2001-02 there were 1 195 full-time equivalent mental health nurses and today there are 1 439 FTE mental health nurses working in our system. That is an increase of 20 per cent. All I am suggesting to members is that they take with a pinch of salt that which they hear during the enterprise bargaining agreement negotiations.
(1)-(4) When we came to power in 2001, there were 7 977 full-time equivalent nurses working in the public hospital system. The current figure is 10 143, which is an increase of more than 2 000 full-time equivalent nurses. That is a greater than 27 per cent increase in the number of full-time equivalent nurses working in our system. That number excludes agency nurses but, as the member for Dawesville knows, the way in which full-time equivalents are calculated is by looking at the total salary bill, which includes people who work double shifts and things of that nature. That does not represent an enormous component. To give greater insight, a headcount of the number of nurses ward by ward through every hospital in the state was 10 518 in February 2002, which was the closest figure that I could get. That figure included part-time nurses. In February 2007, the number increased to 12 997. That is an increase of 2 500 actual bodies working in the wards in our hospitals. Dr K.D. Hames interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY : I have referred to Department of Health figures on nurses. I am aware that the Australian Nursing Federation’s enterprise bargaining agreement negotiations are coming to a head and that there is therefore a vested interest in circulating information that may not be completely accurate from sources outside the Department of Health. Over the past five years an additional 2 500 nurses have been working in our hospitals and we have had 2 000 additional full-time equivalent nurses. That is either a 24 per cent or a 27 per cent increase depending on the yardstick one wants to use. That is a massive increase in the number of nurses working in our public hospital system. We must work on the basis that there are thousands more nurses working in our public hospital system today. Dr K.D. Hames : Where are they? We do not see them in the hospitals. There are the same number of beds that we had six years ago. Remember, they were coming down and then they levelled out and now they are going up again. There are fewer beds than we would have had 10 years ago. Mr J.A. McGINTY : The member can argue if we wants to, but they are the figures. The appropriate figure to use is that the number of nurses has increased from nearly 8 000 in 2001 to more than 10 000 today. That is an increase of about 2 200 nurses working in our hospitals. There has been some misinformation - unfortunately, it was broadcast yesterday morning on ABC radio for which I generally have no criticism - about the number of hospital beds and, in particular, mental health nurses. In 2001-02 there were 1 195 full-time equivalent mental health nurses and today there are 1 439 FTE mental health nurses working in our system. That is an increase of 20 per cent. All I am suggesting to members is that they take with a pinch of salt that which they hear during the enterprise bargaining agreement negotiations.
Mr J.A. McGINTY : I have referred to Department of Health figures on nurses. I am aware that the Australian Nursing Federation’s enterprise bargaining agreement negotiations are coming to a head and that there is therefore a vested interest in circulating information that may not be completely accurate from sources outside the Department of Health. Over the past five years an additional 2 500 nurses have been working in our hospitals and we have had 2 000 additional full-time equivalent nurses. That is either a 24 per cent or a 27 per cent increase depending on the yardstick one wants to use. That is a massive increase in the number of nurses working in our public hospital system. We must work on the basis that there are thousands more nurses working in our public hospital system today. Dr K.D. Hames : Where are they? We do not see them in the hospitals. There are the same number of beds that we had six years ago. Remember, they were coming down and then they levelled out and now they are going up again. There are fewer beds than we would have had 10 years ago. Mr J.A. McGINTY : The member can argue if we wants to, but they are the figures. The appropriate figure to use is that the number of nurses has increased from nearly 8 000 in 2001 to more than 10 000 today. That is an increase of about 2 200 nurses working in our hospitals. There has been some misinformation - unfortunately, it was broadcast yesterday morning on ABC radio for which I generally have no criticism - about the number of hospital beds and, in particular, mental health nurses. In 2001-02 there were 1 195 full-time equivalent mental health nurses and today there are 1 439 FTE mental health nurses working in our system. That is an increase of 20 per cent. All I am suggesting to members is that they take with a pinch of salt that which they hear during the enterprise bargaining agreement negotiations.
Dr K.D. Hames : Where are they? We do not see them in the hospitals. There are the same number of beds that we had six years ago. Remember, they were coming down and then they levelled out and now they are going up again. There are fewer beds than we would have had 10 years ago. Mr J.A. McGINTY : The member can argue if we wants to, but they are the figures. The appropriate figure to use is that the number of nurses has increased from nearly 8 000 in 2001 to more than 10 000 today. That is an increase of about 2 200 nurses working in our hospitals. There has been some misinformation - unfortunately, it was broadcast yesterday morning on ABC radio for which I generally have no criticism - about the number of hospital beds and, in particular, mental health nurses. In 2001-02 there were 1 195 full-time equivalent mental health nurses and today there are 1 439 FTE mental health nurses working in our system. That is an increase of 20 per cent. All I am suggesting to members is that they take with a pinch of salt that which they hear during the enterprise bargaining agreement negotiations.
Mr J.A. McGINTY : The member can argue if we wants to, but they are the figures. The appropriate figure to use is that the number of nurses has increased from nearly 8 000 in 2001 to more than 10 000 today. That is an increase of about 2 200 nurses working in our hospitals. There has been some misinformation - unfortunately, it was broadcast yesterday morning on ABC radio for which I generally have no criticism - about the number of hospital beds and, in particular, mental health nurses. In 2001-02 there were 1 195 full-time equivalent mental health nurses and today there are 1 439 FTE mental health nurses working in our system. That is an increase of 20 per cent. All I am suggesting to members is that they take with a pinch of salt that which they hear during the enterprise bargaining agreement negotiations.
(1) Can the minister explain why his method of calculating nurse numbers does not accurately represent the actual number of nursing staff on board? (2) Will the minister confirm that his statistics count nurses who work double shifts as additional nurses even though the same nurse is working extended hours? (3) Will the minister confirm that his numbers also include agency nurses who are filling in because of the dire straits in nursing numbers? (4) How can the minister say that this is an acceptable process when we are in the midst of a health crisis, which is largely due to his failure to manage the health system? Mr J.A. McGINTY replied: I first want to correct something that I think I said mistakenly in answer to the last question about funding for the Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions. The member for Vasse noted that my mental arithmetic was not good. I indicated that the Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions had received an 84 per cent increase in funding. I meant to say 64 per cent. In any event, a 64 per cent increase is a decent increase. I will now answer the member for Dawesville’s question. (1)-(4) When we came to power in 2001, there were 7 977 full-time equivalent nurses working in the public hospital system. The current figure is 10 143, which is an increase of more than 2 000 full-time equivalent nurses. That is a greater than 27 per cent increase in the number of full-time equivalent nurses working in our system. That number excludes agency nurses but, as the member for Dawesville knows, the way in which full-time equivalents are calculated is by looking at the total salary bill, which includes people who work double shifts and things of that nature. That does not represent an enormous component. To give greater insight, a headcount of the number of nurses ward by ward through every hospital in the state was 10 518 in February 2002, which was the closest figure that I could get. That figure included part-time nurses. In February 2007, the number increased to 12 997. That is an increase of 2 500 actual bodies working in the wards in our hospitals. Dr K.D. Hames interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY : I have referred to Department of Health figures on nurses. I am aware that the Australian Nursing Federation’s enterprise bargaining agreement negotiations are coming to a head and that there is therefore a vested interest in circulating information that may not be completely accurate from sources outside the Department of Health. Over the past five years an additional 2 500 nurses have been working in our hospitals and we have had 2 000 additional full-time equivalent nurses. That is either a 24 per cent or a 27 per cent increase depending on the yardstick one wants to use. That is a massive increase in the number of nurses working in our public hospital system. We must work on the basis that there are thousands more nurses working in our public hospital system today. Dr K.D. Hames : Where are they? We do not see them in the hospitals. There are the same number of beds that we had six years ago. Remember, they were coming down and then they levelled out and now they are going up again. There are fewer beds than we would have had 10 years ago. Mr J.A. McGINTY : The member can argue if we wants to, but they are the figures. The appropriate figure to use is that the number of nurses has increased from nearly 8 000 in 2001 to more than 10 000 today. That is an increase of about 2 200 nurses working in our hospitals. There has been some misinformation - unfortunately, it was broadcast yesterday morning on ABC radio for which I generally have no criticism - about the number of hospital beds and, in particular, mental health nurses. In 2001-02 there were 1 195 full-time equivalent mental health nurses and today there are 1 439 FTE mental health nurses working in our system. That is an increase of 20 per cent. All I am suggesting to members is that they take with a pinch of salt that which they hear during the enterprise bargaining agreement negotiations.
(2) Will the minister confirm that his statistics count nurses who work double shifts as additional nurses even though the same nurse is working extended hours? (3) Will the minister confirm that his numbers also include agency nurses who are filling in because of the dire straits in nursing numbers? (4) How can the minister say that this is an acceptable process when we are in the midst of a health crisis, which is largely due to his failure to manage the health system? Mr J.A. McGINTY replied: I first want to correct something that I think I said mistakenly in answer to the last question about funding for the Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions. The member for Vasse noted that my mental arithmetic was not good. I indicated that the Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions had received an 84 per cent increase in funding. I meant to say 64 per cent. In any event, a 64 per cent increase is a decent increase. I will now answer the member for Dawesville’s question. (1)-(4) When we came to power in 2001, there were 7 977 full-time equivalent nurses working in the public hospital system. The current figure is 10 143, which is an increase of more than 2 000 full-time equivalent nurses. That is a greater than 27 per cent increase in the number of full-time equivalent nurses working in our system. That number excludes agency nurses but, as the member for Dawesville knows, the way in which full-time equivalents are calculated is by looking at the total salary bill, which includes people who work double shifts and things of that nature. That does not represent an enormous component. To give greater insight, a headcount of the number of nurses ward by ward through every hospital in the state was 10 518 in February 2002, which was the closest figure that I could get. That figure included part-time nurses. In February 2007, the number increased to 12 997. That is an increase of 2 500 actual bodies working in the wards in our hospitals. Dr K.D. Hames interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY : I have referred to Department of Health figures on nurses. I am aware that the Australian Nursing Federation’s enterprise bargaining agreement negotiations are coming to a head and that there is therefore a vested interest in circulating information that may not be completely accurate from sources outside the Department of Health. Over the past five years an additional 2 500 nurses have been working in our hospitals and we have had 2 000 additional full-time equivalent nurses. That is either a 24 per cent or a 27 per cent increase depending on the yardstick one wants to use. That is a massive increase in the number of nurses working in our public hospital system. We must work on the basis that there are thousands more nurses working in our public hospital system today. Dr K.D. Hames : Where are they? We do not see them in the hospitals. There are the same number of beds that we had six years ago. Remember, they were coming down and then they levelled out and now they are going up again. There are fewer beds than we would have had 10 years ago. Mr J.A. McGINTY : The member can argue if we wants to, but they are the figures. The appropriate figure to use is that the number of nurses has increased from nearly 8 000 in 2001 to more than 10 000 today. That is an increase of about 2 200 nurses working in our hospitals. There has been some misinformation - unfortunately, it was broadcast yesterday morning on ABC radio for which I generally have no criticism - about the number of hospital beds and, in particular, mental health nurses. In 2001-02 there were 1 195 full-time equivalent mental health nurses and today there are 1 439 FTE mental health nurses working in our system. That is an increase of 20 per cent. All I am suggesting to members is that they take with a pinch of salt that which they hear during the enterprise bargaining agreement negotiations.
(3) Will the minister confirm that his numbers also include agency nurses who are filling in because of the dire straits in nursing numbers? (4) How can the minister say that this is an acceptable process when we are in the midst of a health crisis, which is largely due to his failure to manage the health system? Mr J.A. McGINTY replied: I first want to correct something that I think I said mistakenly in answer to the last question about funding for the Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions. The member for Vasse noted that my mental arithmetic was not good. I indicated that the Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions had received an 84 per cent increase in funding. I meant to say 64 per cent. In any event, a 64 per cent increase is a decent increase. I will now answer the member for Dawesville’s question. (1)-(4) When we came to power in 2001, there were 7 977 full-time equivalent nurses working in the public hospital system. The current figure is 10 143, which is an increase of more than 2 000 full-time equivalent nurses. That is a greater than 27 per cent increase in the number of full-time equivalent nurses working in our system. That number excludes agency nurses but, as the member for Dawesville knows, the way in which full-time equivalents are calculated is by looking at the total salary bill, which includes people who work double shifts and things of that nature. That does not represent an enormous component. To give greater insight, a headcount of the number of nurses ward by ward through every hospital in the state was 10 518 in February 2002, which was the closest figure that I could get. That figure included part-time nurses. In February 2007, the number increased to 12 997. That is an increase of 2 500 actual bodies working in the wards in our hospitals. Dr K.D. Hames interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY : I have referred to Department of Health figures on nurses. I am aware that the Australian Nursing Federation’s enterprise bargaining agreement negotiations are coming to a head and that there is therefore a vested interest in circulating information that may not be completely accurate from sources outside the Department of Health. Over the past five years an additional 2 500 nurses have been working in our hospitals and we have had 2 000 additional full-time equivalent nurses. That is either a 24 per cent or a 27 per cent increase depending on the yardstick one wants to use. That is a massive increase in the number of nurses working in our public hospital system. We must work on the basis that there are thousands more nurses working in our public hospital system today. Dr K.D. Hames : Where are they? We do not see them in the hospitals. There are the same number of beds that we had six years ago. Remember, they were coming down and then they levelled out and now they are going up again. There are fewer beds than we would have had 10 years ago. Mr J.A. McGINTY : The member can argue if we wants to, but they are the figures. The appropriate figure to use is that the number of nurses has increased from nearly 8 000 in 2001 to more than 10 000 today. That is an increase of about 2 200 nurses working in our hospitals. There has been some misinformation - unfortunately, it was broadcast yesterday morning on ABC radio for which I generally have no criticism - about the number of hospital beds and, in particular, mental health nurses. In 2001-02 there were 1 195 full-time equivalent mental health nurses and today there are 1 439 FTE mental health nurses working in our system. That is an increase of 20 per cent. All I am suggesting to members is that they take with a pinch of salt that which they hear during the enterprise bargaining agreement negotiations.
(4) How can the minister say that this is an acceptable process when we are in the midst of a health crisis, which is largely due to his failure to manage the health system? Mr J.A. McGINTY replied: I first want to correct something that I think I said mistakenly in answer to the last question about funding for the Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions. The member for Vasse noted that my mental arithmetic was not good. I indicated that the Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions had received an 84 per cent increase in funding. I meant to say 64 per cent. In any event, a 64 per cent increase is a decent increase. I will now answer the member for Dawesville’s question. (1)-(4) When we came to power in 2001, there were 7 977 full-time equivalent nurses working in the public hospital system. The current figure is 10 143, which is an increase of more than 2 000 full-time equivalent nurses. That is a greater than 27 per cent increase in the number of full-time equivalent nurses working in our system. That number excludes agency nurses but, as the member for Dawesville knows, the way in which full-time equivalents are calculated is by looking at the total salary bill, which includes people who work double shifts and things of that nature. That does not represent an enormous component. To give greater insight, a headcount of the number of nurses ward by ward through every hospital in the state was 10 518 in February 2002, which was the closest figure that I could get. That figure included part-time nurses. In February 2007, the number increased to 12 997. That is an increase of 2 500 actual bodies working in the wards in our hospitals. Dr K.D. Hames interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY : I have referred to Department of Health figures on nurses. I am aware that the Australian Nursing Federation’s enterprise bargaining agreement negotiations are coming to a head and that there is therefore a vested interest in circulating information that may not be completely accurate from sources outside the Department of Health. Over the past five years an additional 2 500 nurses have been working in our hospitals and we have had 2 000 additional full-time equivalent nurses. That is either a 24 per cent or a 27 per cent increase depending on the yardstick one wants to use. That is a massive increase in the number of nurses working in our public hospital system. We must work on the basis that there are thousands more nurses working in our public hospital system today. Dr K.D. Hames : Where are they? We do not see them in the hospitals. There are the same number of beds that we had six years ago. Remember, they were coming down and then they levelled out and now they are going up again. There are fewer beds than we would have had 10 years ago. Mr J.A. McGINTY : The member can argue if we wants to, but they are the figures. The appropriate figure to use is that the number of nurses has increased from nearly 8 000 in 2001 to more than 10 000 today. That is an increase of about 2 200 nurses working in our hospitals. There has been some misinformation - unfortunately, it was broadcast yesterday morning on ABC radio for which I generally have no criticism - about the number of hospital beds and, in particular, mental health nurses. In 2001-02 there were 1 195 full-time equivalent mental health nurses and today there are 1 439 FTE mental health nurses working in our system. That is an increase of 20 per cent. All I am suggesting to members is that they take with a pinch of salt that which they hear during the enterprise bargaining agreement negotiations.
Mr J.A. McGINTY replied: I first want to correct something that I think I said mistakenly in answer to the last question about funding for the Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions. The member for Vasse noted that my mental arithmetic was not good. I indicated that the Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions had received an 84 per cent increase in funding. I meant to say 64 per cent. In any event, a 64 per cent increase is a decent increase. I will now answer the member for Dawesville’s question. (1)-(4) When we came to power in 2001, there were 7 977 full-time equivalent nurses working in the public hospital system. The current figure is 10 143, which is an increase of more than 2 000 full-time equivalent nurses. That is a greater than 27 per cent increase in the number of full-time equivalent nurses working in our system. That number excludes agency nurses but, as the member for Dawesville knows, the way in which full-time equivalents are calculated is by looking at the total salary bill, which includes people who work double shifts and things of that nature. That does not represent an enormous component. To give greater insight, a headcount of the number of nurses ward by ward through every hospital in the state was 10 518 in February 2002, which was the closest figure that I could get. That figure included part-time nurses. In February 2007, the number increased to 12 997. That is an increase of 2 500 actual bodies working in the wards in our hospitals. Dr K.D. Hames interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY : I have referred to Department of Health figures on nurses. I am aware that the Australian Nursing Federation’s enterprise bargaining agreement negotiations are coming to a head and that there is therefore a vested interest in circulating information that may not be completely accurate from sources outside the Department of Health. Over the past five years an additional 2 500 nurses have been working in our hospitals and we have had 2 000 additional full-time equivalent nurses. That is either a 24 per cent or a 27 per cent increase depending on the yardstick one wants to use. That is a massive increase in the number of nurses working in our public hospital system. We must work on the basis that there are thousands more nurses working in our public hospital system today. Dr K.D. Hames : Where are they? We do not see them in the hospitals. There are the same number of beds that we had six years ago. Remember, they were coming down and then they levelled out and now they are going up again. There are fewer beds than we would have had 10 years ago. Mr J.A. McGINTY : The member can argue if we wants to, but they are the figures. The appropriate figure to use is that the number of nurses has increased from nearly 8 000 in 2001 to more than 10 000 today. That is an increase of about 2 200 nurses working in our hospitals. There has been some misinformation - unfortunately, it was broadcast yesterday morning on ABC radio for which I generally have no criticism - about the number of hospital beds and, in particular, mental health nurses. In 2001-02 there were 1 195 full-time equivalent mental health nurses and today there are 1 439 FTE mental health nurses working in our system. That is an increase of 20 per cent. All I am suggesting to members is that they take with a pinch of salt that which they hear during the enterprise bargaining agreement negotiations.
I first want to correct something that I think I said mistakenly in answer to the last question about funding for the Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions. The member for Vasse noted that my mental arithmetic was not good. I indicated that the Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions had received an 84 per cent increase in funding. I meant to say 64 per cent. In any event, a 64 per cent increase is a decent increase. I will now answer the member for Dawesville’s question. (1)-(4) When we came to power in 2001, there were 7 977 full-time equivalent nurses working in the public hospital system. The current figure is 10 143, which is an increase of more than 2 000 full-time equivalent nurses. That is a greater than 27 per cent increase in the number of full-time equivalent nurses working in our system. That number excludes agency nurses but, as the member for Dawesville knows, the way in which full-time equivalents are calculated is by looking at the total salary bill, which includes people who work double shifts and things of that nature. That does not represent an enormous component. To give greater insight, a headcount of the number of nurses ward by ward through every hospital in the state was 10 518 in February 2002, which was the closest figure that I could get. That figure included part-time nurses. In February 2007, the number increased to 12 997. That is an increase of 2 500 actual bodies working in the wards in our hospitals. Dr K.D. Hames interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY : I have referred to Department of Health figures on nurses. I am aware that the Australian Nursing Federation’s enterprise bargaining agreement negotiations are coming to a head and that there is therefore a vested interest in circulating information that may not be completely accurate from sources outside the Department of Health. Over the past five years an additional 2 500 nurses have been working in our hospitals and we have had 2 000 additional full-time equivalent nurses. That is either a 24 per cent or a 27 per cent increase depending on the yardstick one wants to use. That is a massive increase in the number of nurses working in our public hospital system. We must work on the basis that there are thousands more nurses working in our public hospital system today. Dr K.D. Hames : Where are they? We do not see them in the hospitals. There are the same number of beds that we had six years ago. Remember, they were coming down and then they levelled out and now they are going up again. There are fewer beds than we would have had 10 years ago. Mr J.A. McGINTY : The member can argue if we wants to, but they are the figures. The appropriate figure to use is that the number of nurses has increased from nearly 8 000 in 2001 to more than 10 000 today. That is an increase of about 2 200 nurses working in our hospitals. There has been some misinformation - unfortunately, it was broadcast yesterday morning on ABC radio for which I generally have no criticism - about the number of hospital beds and, in particular, mental health nurses. In 2001-02 there were 1 195 full-time equivalent mental health nurses and today there are 1 439 FTE mental health nurses working in our system. That is an increase of 20 per cent. All I am suggesting to members is that they take with a pinch of salt that which they hear during the enterprise bargaining agreement negotiations.
(1)-(4) When we came to power in 2001, there were 7 977 full-time equivalent nurses working in the public hospital system. The current figure is 10 143, which is an increase of more than 2 000 full-time equivalent nurses. That is a greater than 27 per cent increase in the number of full-time equivalent nurses working in our system. That number excludes agency nurses but, as the member for Dawesville knows, the way in which full-time equivalents are calculated is by looking at the total salary bill, which includes people who work double shifts and things of that nature. That does not represent an enormous component. To give greater insight, a headcount of the number of nurses ward by ward through every hospital in the state was 10 518 in February 2002, which was the closest figure that I could get. That figure included part-time nurses. In February 2007, the number increased to 12 997. That is an increase of 2 500 actual bodies working in the wards in our hospitals. Dr K.D. Hames interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY : I have referred to Department of Health figures on nurses. I am aware that the Australian Nursing Federation’s enterprise bargaining agreement negotiations are coming to a head and that there is therefore a vested interest in circulating information that may not be completely accurate from sources outside the Department of Health. Over the past five years an additional 2 500 nurses have been working in our hospitals and we have had 2 000 additional full-time equivalent nurses. That is either a 24 per cent or a 27 per cent increase depending on the yardstick one wants to use. That is a massive increase in the number of nurses working in our public hospital system. We must work on the basis that there are thousands more nurses working in our public hospital system today. Dr K.D. Hames : Where are they? We do not see them in the hospitals. There are the same number of beds that we had six years ago. Remember, they were coming down and then they levelled out and now they are going up again. There are fewer beds than we would have had 10 years ago. Mr J.A. McGINTY : The member can argue if we wants to, but they are the figures. The appropriate figure to use is that the number of nurses has increased from nearly 8 000 in 2001 to more than 10 000 today. That is an increase of about 2 200 nurses working in our hospitals. There has been some misinformation - unfortunately, it was broadcast yesterday morning on ABC radio for which I generally have no criticism - about the number of hospital beds and, in particular, mental health nurses. In 2001-02 there were 1 195 full-time equivalent mental health nurses and today there are 1 439 FTE mental health nurses working in our system. That is an increase of 20 per cent. All I am suggesting to members is that they take with a pinch of salt that which they hear during the enterprise bargaining agreement negotiations.
Mr J.A. McGINTY : I have referred to Department of Health figures on nurses. I am aware that the Australian Nursing Federation’s enterprise bargaining agreement negotiations are coming to a head and that there is therefore a vested interest in circulating information that may not be completely accurate from sources outside the Department of Health. Over the past five years an additional 2 500 nurses have been working in our hospitals and we have had 2 000 additional full-time equivalent nurses. That is either a 24 per cent or a 27 per cent increase depending on the yardstick one wants to use. That is a massive increase in the number of nurses working in our public hospital system. We must work on the basis that there are thousands more nurses working in our public hospital system today. Dr K.D. Hames : Where are they? We do not see them in the hospitals. There are the same number of beds that we had six years ago. Remember, they were coming down and then they levelled out and now they are going up again. There are fewer beds than we would have had 10 years ago. Mr J.A. McGINTY : The member can argue if we wants to, but they are the figures. The appropriate figure to use is that the number of nurses has increased from nearly 8 000 in 2001 to more than 10 000 today. That is an increase of about 2 200 nurses working in our hospitals. There has been some misinformation - unfortunately, it was broadcast yesterday morning on ABC radio for which I generally have no criticism - about the number of hospital beds and, in particular, mental health nurses. In 2001-02 there were 1 195 full-time equivalent mental health nurses and today there are 1 439 FTE mental health nurses working in our system. That is an increase of 20 per cent. All I am suggesting to members is that they take with a pinch of salt that which they hear during the enterprise bargaining agreement negotiations.
Dr K.D. Hames : Where are they? We do not see them in the hospitals. There are the same number of beds that we had six years ago. Remember, they were coming down and then they levelled out and now they are going up again. There are fewer beds than we would have had 10 years ago. Mr J.A. McGINTY : The member can argue if we wants to, but they are the figures. The appropriate figure to use is that the number of nurses has increased from nearly 8 000 in 2001 to more than 10 000 today. That is an increase of about 2 200 nurses working in our hospitals. There has been some misinformation - unfortunately, it was broadcast yesterday morning on ABC radio for which I generally have no criticism - about the number of hospital beds and, in particular, mental health nurses. In 2001-02 there were 1 195 full-time equivalent mental health nurses and today there are 1 439 FTE mental health nurses working in our system. That is an increase of 20 per cent. All I am suggesting to members is that they take with a pinch of salt that which they hear during the enterprise bargaining agreement negotiations.
Mr J.A. McGINTY : The member can argue if we wants to, but they are the figures. The appropriate figure to use is that the number of nurses has increased from nearly 8 000 in 2001 to more than 10 000 today. That is an increase of about 2 200 nurses working in our hospitals. There has been some misinformation - unfortunately, it was broadcast yesterday morning on ABC radio for which I generally have no criticism - about the number of hospital beds and, in particular, mental health nurses. In 2001-02 there were 1 195 full-time equivalent mental health nurses and today there are 1 439 FTE mental health nurses working in our system. That is an increase of 20 per cent. All I am suggesting to members is that they take with a pinch of salt that which they hear during the enterprise bargaining agreement negotiations.
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