❓ A parliamentary question regarding back pay for prison nurses and the alleged use of agency nurses during a strike. The Minister clarifies the government's position on wage parity and back pay, disputing claims of broken promises.
AnsweredQoN 367Legislative Assembly
QuestionView source ↗
I refer to the minister’s avoidance of my question to him yesterday. (1) Why is the minister refusing to honour the Government’s commitment, as outlined in circular to departments and authorities No 26 of 2001, to back pay prison nurses to 1 July 2001? (2) Can the minister confirm that $600 000 is the amount required for the back pay, and that amount has been almost spent on the employment of agency nurses during the strike? (3) Can the minister also confirm that some prison officers are currently dispensing and administering drugs to prisoners, including schedule 8 drugs? Mr J.A. McGINTY
AnswerView source ↗
(1)-(3) I am pleased to have the opportunity to fully explain the situation. It was a bit difficult yesterday because I was a bit like a yoyo, as you, Mr Speaker, intervened during the course of my answer. The offer has been made to the Western Australian branch of the Australian Nursing Federation for wage parity between prison nurses and hospital nurses. That is agreed. Today I noticed a sign over at Solidarity Park that read, “Nurses want parity”. They have got it; that is not in doubt any more. I have also instructed the department, because we have not been able to sign - Dr J.M. Woollard interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: Will the member listen. What do they want? Dr J.M. Woollard: They are paid less. Mr J.A. McGINTY: No, they are not. The member should clean the wax out of her ears and have a little listen. We have agreed to their wage claim that will give them parity, full stop. There is no longer any dispute about the wage rates between the ANF and the Government. Prison nurses will be paid the same as hospital nurses; parity has been achieved. Mr M.F. Board: Parity from July? Mr J.A. McGINTY: I am coming to the question of retrospectivity. That issue has been resolved. I cannot think of any more ways to say the same thing, but there is no dispute about parity; equally, there is no dispute about backdating this agreement. Mr M.F. Board: It does not look that way. Mr J.A. McGINTY: I will explain it. There is no dispute. We have agreed to pay back-pay to 1 June this year, the date on which the previous agreement covering the enterprise bargaining agreement for nurses working in prisons expired. We have gone back to the starting date of the agreement and have said that it will apply from that date. The first issue of parity has been achieved; the second issue is back pay, and we have agreed to date the offer from the expiry of the old agreement. The nub of the disagreement is for the 12 months going back through most of 2001 and into this year. Dr J.M. Woollard interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: I will answer this question first. I am happy to take interjections. I am told that an offer has never been made to the ANF to backdate this particular pay rise into the time of the previous agreement. Furthermore, that will not happen. So, if I have a simple message for the nurses, it is this: they have achieved parity; they have been offered back pay to 1 June this year, which is some five-and-a-half months; and under no circumstances will we agree to pay back-pay for a further 12 months into last year. Today I spoke to a few nurses who were here and I explained the position to them. I said that I had never seen evidence of an offer to prison nurses to backdate the payments to 15 or 18 months ago, and such a situation would be contrary to my instructions from the Department of Justice. Mr M.F. Board: Have you seen the circular to which I have referred? Mr J.A. McGINTY: There is a general administrative circular dealing with another issue - Dr J.M. Woollard interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: I will make this point and then I will come back to the point raised by the member for Alfred Cove. Today when I was talking to these nurses, they said that historically there had been times when prison nurses were paid more than hospital nurses, and I said that was right. When they entered into an agreement, they signed it and they should honour that agreement. They are now trying to renegotiate an agreement that was signed off by the ANF and get an increase in pay for a period going back 18 months. We will not agree to it. We will honour the EBA that we signed - I think the Opposition signed it - covering that period. The new rates - the parity - will be backdated to the date on which that agreement expired. As part of my very significant experience in negotiating wages and working conditions on behalf of union members in this State, I am not familiar with the concept of allowing retrospectivity back into the life of a pre-existing agreement. I am not saying it has never happened, but I do not know that it has ever happened. Does any member have any knowledge of that happening? Never! We will not do it; it is not something that we have ever offered to the nurses. The best thing I can suggest to the prison nurses is that they have got parity and they have got a significant amount of back pay; therefore, they should get back to work and do their job, and they should do that as soon as possible because their actions are serving no purpose. Mr M.F. Board: Someone should have been honest with them and up-front about their position. It has taken a long time for them to be told. They were told, with circulars in hand, that they would receive parity from July 2001, because they came within the ANF and they were covered under those arrangements and it would be only a matter of time before the Government brought all the EBAs together. That is their understanding, and that is why they are so passionate about the matter. Mr J.A. McGINTY: From time to time people have understandings; sometimes they are not correct. I watched very closely as the Minister for Health resolved the nurses pay rise issue in the government hospital area. It was always my understanding from being very close to those negotiations that they would flow on to the prison nurses when their agreement expired, which was on 1 June this year. Whether other people have a different understanding, a misunderstanding or whatever, I cannot make it any clearer than to say that two of the three issues that this strike is allegedly about have been resolved. We have not agreed to that 12-month period of back pay going back into the life of the previous agreement, and we will not be paying back-pay for that other period. There is no point in them - Mr M.F. Board: Will you address the prison officer issue? Allegations have been made that prison officers are dispensing and administering drugs within the prison system. Mr J.A. McGINTY: Had the member given me some notice of that question, I would have been able to give a very straightforward answer. Mr M.F. Board: Are you prepared to tell us what the situation is? Mr J.A. McGINTY: Absolutely. I am happy to investigate that matter. Obviously we have prisoners who enjoy worse health than people in the general community; they need to get their medications. If nurses are not doing what they are paid and employed to do in the hospitals, we will not deny prisoners their prescribed medications. Mr M.F. Board interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: I am not sure that they are. The member for Murdoch has made an allegation. I do not think that is the case. If people have walked off the job, we will not deny prisoners lifesaving medication. Dr J.M. Woollard: The difference in salary is between the prison nurses and the agency nurses. The prison nurses believe this Government gave a commitment to pay them back pay to July 2001, and it has not kept its promise. More and more prison nurses are leaving and more and more agency nurses are moving into that area. Those agency nurses do not know the prisoners; they do not know their moods - Mr J.A. McGINTY: I can answer that very quickly. Nobody has ever argued that parity should exist between prison nurses and agency nurses. The member for Alfred Cove is the first one to put that claim forward; not even the ANF has put that claim forward. What the member is raising is a load of nonsense and it has no relevance. The figures raised by the member for Murdoch about the back pay and the payments for agency nurses do not sound right, but I will obtain more information. I make this simple request: if members are interested in answers to detailed questions, such as the amount of money that has been spent in a particular area, they should provide some notice and I will happily provide the information.
(1) Why is the minister refusing to honour the Government’s commitment, as outlined in circular to departments and authorities No 26 of 2001, to back pay prison nurses to 1 July 2001? (2) Can the minister confirm that $600 000 is the amount required for the back pay, and that amount has been almost spent on the employment of agency nurses during the strike? (3) Can the minister also confirm that some prison officers are currently dispensing and administering drugs to prisoners, including schedule 8 drugs? Mr J.A. McGINTY replied: (1)-(3) I am pleased to have the opportunity to fully explain the situation. It was a bit difficult yesterday because I was a bit like a yoyo, as you, Mr Speaker, intervened during the course of my answer. The offer has been made to the Western Australian branch of the Australian Nursing Federation for wage parity between prison nurses and hospital nurses. That is agreed. Today I noticed a sign over at Solidarity Park that read, “Nurses want parity”. They have got it; that is not in doubt any more. I have also instructed the department, because we have not been able to sign - Dr J.M. Woollard interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: Will the member listen. What do they want? Dr J.M. Woollard: They are paid less. Mr J.A. McGINTY: No, they are not. The member should clean the wax out of her ears and have a little listen. We have agreed to their wage claim that will give them parity, full stop. There is no longer any dispute about the wage rates between the ANF and the Government. Prison nurses will be paid the same as hospital nurses; parity has been achieved. Mr M.F. Board: Parity from July? Mr J.A. McGINTY: I am coming to the question of retrospectivity. That issue has been resolved. I cannot think of any more ways to say the same thing, but there is no dispute about parity; equally, there is no dispute about backdating this agreement. Mr M.F. Board: It does not look that way. Mr J.A. McGINTY: I will explain it. There is no dispute. We have agreed to pay back-pay to 1 June this year, the date on which the previous agreement covering the enterprise bargaining agreement for nurses working in prisons expired. We have gone back to the starting date of the agreement and have said that it will apply from that date. The first issue of parity has been achieved; the second issue is back pay, and we have agreed to date the offer from the expiry of the old agreement. The nub of the disagreement is for the 12 months going back through most of 2001 and into this year. Dr J.M. Woollard interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: I will answer this question first. I am happy to take interjections. I am told that an offer has never been made to the ANF to backdate this particular pay rise into the time of the previous agreement. Furthermore, that will not happen. So, if I have a simple message for the nurses, it is this: they have achieved parity; they have been offered back pay to 1 June this year, which is some five-and-a-half months; and under no circumstances will we agree to pay back-pay for a further 12 months into last year. Today I spoke to a few nurses who were here and I explained the position to them. I said that I had never seen evidence of an offer to prison nurses to backdate the payments to 15 or 18 months ago, and such a situation would be contrary to my instructions from the Department of Justice. Mr M.F. Board: Have you seen the circular to which I have referred? Mr J.A. McGINTY: There is a general administrative circular dealing with another issue - Dr J.M. Woollard interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: I will make this point and then I will come back to the point raised by the member for Alfred Cove. Today when I was talking to these nurses, they said that historically there had been times when prison nurses were paid more than hospital nurses, and I said that was right. When they entered into an agreement, they signed it and they should honour that agreement. They are now trying to renegotiate an agreement that was signed off by the ANF and get an increase in pay for a period going back 18 months. We will not agree to it. We will honour the EBA that we signed - I think the Opposition signed it - covering that period. The new rates - the parity - will be backdated to the date on which that agreement expired. As part of my very significant experience in negotiating wages and working conditions on behalf of union members in this State, I am not familiar with the concept of allowing retrospectivity back into the life of a pre-existing agreement. I am not saying it has never happened, but I do not know that it has ever happened. Does any member have any knowledge of that happening? Never! We will not do it; it is not something that we have ever offered to the nurses. The best thing I can suggest to the prison nurses is that they have got parity and they have got a significant amount of back pay; therefore, they should get back to work and do their job, and they should do that as soon as possible because their actions are serving no purpose. Mr M.F. Board: Someone should have been honest with them and up-front about their position. It has taken a long time for them to be told. They were told, with circulars in hand, that they would receive parity from July 2001, because they came within the ANF and they were covered under those arrangements and it would be only a matter of time before the Government brought all the EBAs together. That is their understanding, and that is why they are so passionate about the matter. Mr J.A. McGINTY: From time to time people have understandings; sometimes they are not correct. I watched very closely as the Minister for Health resolved the nurses pay rise issue in the government hospital area. It was always my understanding from being very close to those negotiations that they would flow on to the prison nurses when their agreement expired, which was on 1 June this year. Whether other people have a different understanding, a misunderstanding or whatever, I cannot make it any clearer than to say that two of the three issues that this strike is allegedly about have been resolved. We have not agreed to that 12-month period of back pay going back into the life of the previous agreement, and we will not be paying back-pay for that other period. There is no point in them - Mr M.F. Board: Will you address the prison officer issue? Allegations have been made that prison officers are dispensing and administering drugs within the prison system. Mr J.A. McGINTY: Had the member given me some notice of that question, I would have been able to give a very straightforward answer. Mr M.F. Board: Are you prepared to tell us what the situation is? Mr J.A. McGINTY: Absolutely. I am happy to investigate that matter. Obviously we have prisoners who enjoy worse health than people in the general community; they need to get their medications. If nurses are not doing what they are paid and employed to do in the hospitals, we will not deny prisoners their prescribed medications. Mr M.F. Board interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: I am not sure that they are. The member for Murdoch has made an allegation. I do not think that is the case. If people have walked off the job, we will not deny prisoners lifesaving medication. Dr J.M. Woollard: The difference in salary is between the prison nurses and the agency nurses. The prison nurses believe this Government gave a commitment to pay them back pay to July 2001, and it has not kept its promise. More and more prison nurses are leaving and more and more agency nurses are moving into that area. Those agency nurses do not know the prisoners; they do not know their moods - Mr J.A. McGINTY: I can answer that very quickly. Nobody has ever argued that parity should exist between prison nurses and agency nurses. The member for Alfred Cove is the first one to put that claim forward; not even the ANF has put that claim forward. What the member is raising is a load of nonsense and it has no relevance. The figures raised by the member for Murdoch about the back pay and the payments for agency nurses do not sound right, but I will obtain more information. I make this simple request: if members are interested in answers to detailed questions, such as the amount of money that has been spent in a particular area, they should provide some notice and I will happily provide the information.
(2) Can the minister confirm that $600 000 is the amount required for the back pay, and that amount has been almost spent on the employment of agency nurses during the strike? (3) Can the minister also confirm that some prison officers are currently dispensing and administering drugs to prisoners, including schedule 8 drugs? Mr J.A. McGINTY replied: (1)-(3) I am pleased to have the opportunity to fully explain the situation. It was a bit difficult yesterday because I was a bit like a yoyo, as you, Mr Speaker, intervened during the course of my answer. The offer has been made to the Western Australian branch of the Australian Nursing Federation for wage parity between prison nurses and hospital nurses. That is agreed. Today I noticed a sign over at Solidarity Park that read, “Nurses want parity”. They have got it; that is not in doubt any more. I have also instructed the department, because we have not been able to sign - Dr J.M. Woollard interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: Will the member listen. What do they want? Dr J.M. Woollard: They are paid less. Mr J.A. McGINTY: No, they are not. The member should clean the wax out of her ears and have a little listen. We have agreed to their wage claim that will give them parity, full stop. There is no longer any dispute about the wage rates between the ANF and the Government. Prison nurses will be paid the same as hospital nurses; parity has been achieved. Mr M.F. Board: Parity from July? Mr J.A. McGINTY: I am coming to the question of retrospectivity. That issue has been resolved. I cannot think of any more ways to say the same thing, but there is no dispute about parity; equally, there is no dispute about backdating this agreement. Mr M.F. Board: It does not look that way. Mr J.A. McGINTY: I will explain it. There is no dispute. We have agreed to pay back-pay to 1 June this year, the date on which the previous agreement covering the enterprise bargaining agreement for nurses working in prisons expired. We have gone back to the starting date of the agreement and have said that it will apply from that date. The first issue of parity has been achieved; the second issue is back pay, and we have agreed to date the offer from the expiry of the old agreement. The nub of the disagreement is for the 12 months going back through most of 2001 and into this year. Dr J.M. Woollard interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: I will answer this question first. I am happy to take interjections. I am told that an offer has never been made to the ANF to backdate this particular pay rise into the time of the previous agreement. Furthermore, that will not happen. So, if I have a simple message for the nurses, it is this: they have achieved parity; they have been offered back pay to 1 June this year, which is some five-and-a-half months; and under no circumstances will we agree to pay back-pay for a further 12 months into last year. Today I spoke to a few nurses who were here and I explained the position to them. I said that I had never seen evidence of an offer to prison nurses to backdate the payments to 15 or 18 months ago, and such a situation would be contrary to my instructions from the Department of Justice. Mr M.F. Board: Have you seen the circular to which I have referred? Mr J.A. McGINTY: There is a general administrative circular dealing with another issue - Dr J.M. Woollard interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: I will make this point and then I will come back to the point raised by the member for Alfred Cove. Today when I was talking to these nurses, they said that historically there had been times when prison nurses were paid more than hospital nurses, and I said that was right. When they entered into an agreement, they signed it and they should honour that agreement. They are now trying to renegotiate an agreement that was signed off by the ANF and get an increase in pay for a period going back 18 months. We will not agree to it. We will honour the EBA that we signed - I think the Opposition signed it - covering that period. The new rates - the parity - will be backdated to the date on which that agreement expired. As part of my very significant experience in negotiating wages and working conditions on behalf of union members in this State, I am not familiar with the concept of allowing retrospectivity back into the life of a pre-existing agreement. I am not saying it has never happened, but I do not know that it has ever happened. Does any member have any knowledge of that happening? Never! We will not do it; it is not something that we have ever offered to the nurses. The best thing I can suggest to the prison nurses is that they have got parity and they have got a significant amount of back pay; therefore, they should get back to work and do their job, and they should do that as soon as possible because their actions are serving no purpose. Mr M.F. Board: Someone should have been honest with them and up-front about their position. It has taken a long time for them to be told. They were told, with circulars in hand, that they would receive parity from July 2001, because they came within the ANF and they were covered under those arrangements and it would be only a matter of time before the Government brought all the EBAs together. That is their understanding, and that is why they are so passionate about the matter. Mr J.A. McGINTY: From time to time people have understandings; sometimes they are not correct. I watched very closely as the Minister for Health resolved the nurses pay rise issue in the government hospital area. It was always my understanding from being very close to those negotiations that they would flow on to the prison nurses when their agreement expired, which was on 1 June this year. Whether other people have a different understanding, a misunderstanding or whatever, I cannot make it any clearer than to say that two of the three issues that this strike is allegedly about have been resolved. We have not agreed to that 12-month period of back pay going back into the life of the previous agreement, and we will not be paying back-pay for that other period. There is no point in them - Mr M.F. Board: Will you address the prison officer issue? Allegations have been made that prison officers are dispensing and administering drugs within the prison system. Mr J.A. McGINTY: Had the member given me some notice of that question, I would have been able to give a very straightforward answer. Mr M.F. Board: Are you prepared to tell us what the situation is? Mr J.A. McGINTY: Absolutely. I am happy to investigate that matter. Obviously we have prisoners who enjoy worse health than people in the general community; they need to get their medications. If nurses are not doing what they are paid and employed to do in the hospitals, we will not deny prisoners their prescribed medications. Mr M.F. Board interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: I am not sure that they are. The member for Murdoch has made an allegation. I do not think that is the case. If people have walked off the job, we will not deny prisoners lifesaving medication. Dr J.M. Woollard: The difference in salary is between the prison nurses and the agency nurses. The prison nurses believe this Government gave a commitment to pay them back pay to July 2001, and it has not kept its promise. More and more prison nurses are leaving and more and more agency nurses are moving into that area. Those agency nurses do not know the prisoners; they do not know their moods - Mr J.A. McGINTY: I can answer that very quickly. Nobody has ever argued that parity should exist between prison nurses and agency nurses. The member for Alfred Cove is the first one to put that claim forward; not even the ANF has put that claim forward. What the member is raising is a load of nonsense and it has no relevance. The figures raised by the member for Murdoch about the back pay and the payments for agency nurses do not sound right, but I will obtain more information. I make this simple request: if members are interested in answers to detailed questions, such as the amount of money that has been spent in a particular area, they should provide some notice and I will happily provide the information.
(3) Can the minister also confirm that some prison officers are currently dispensing and administering drugs to prisoners, including schedule 8 drugs? Mr J.A. McGINTY replied: (1)-(3) I am pleased to have the opportunity to fully explain the situation. It was a bit difficult yesterday because I was a bit like a yoyo, as you, Mr Speaker, intervened during the course of my answer. The offer has been made to the Western Australian branch of the Australian Nursing Federation for wage parity between prison nurses and hospital nurses. That is agreed. Today I noticed a sign over at Solidarity Park that read, “Nurses want parity”. They have got it; that is not in doubt any more. I have also instructed the department, because we have not been able to sign - Dr J.M. Woollard interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: Will the member listen. What do they want? Dr J.M. Woollard: They are paid less. Mr J.A. McGINTY: No, they are not. The member should clean the wax out of her ears and have a little listen. We have agreed to their wage claim that will give them parity, full stop. There is no longer any dispute about the wage rates between the ANF and the Government. Prison nurses will be paid the same as hospital nurses; parity has been achieved. Mr M.F. Board: Parity from July? Mr J.A. McGINTY: I am coming to the question of retrospectivity. That issue has been resolved. I cannot think of any more ways to say the same thing, but there is no dispute about parity; equally, there is no dispute about backdating this agreement. Mr M.F. Board: It does not look that way. Mr J.A. McGINTY: I will explain it. There is no dispute. We have agreed to pay back-pay to 1 June this year, the date on which the previous agreement covering the enterprise bargaining agreement for nurses working in prisons expired. We have gone back to the starting date of the agreement and have said that it will apply from that date. The first issue of parity has been achieved; the second issue is back pay, and we have agreed to date the offer from the expiry of the old agreement. The nub of the disagreement is for the 12 months going back through most of 2001 and into this year. Dr J.M. Woollard interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: I will answer this question first. I am happy to take interjections. I am told that an offer has never been made to the ANF to backdate this particular pay rise into the time of the previous agreement. Furthermore, that will not happen. So, if I have a simple message for the nurses, it is this: they have achieved parity; they have been offered back pay to 1 June this year, which is some five-and-a-half months; and under no circumstances will we agree to pay back-pay for a further 12 months into last year. Today I spoke to a few nurses who were here and I explained the position to them. I said that I had never seen evidence of an offer to prison nurses to backdate the payments to 15 or 18 months ago, and such a situation would be contrary to my instructions from the Department of Justice. Mr M.F. Board: Have you seen the circular to which I have referred? Mr J.A. McGINTY: There is a general administrative circular dealing with another issue - Dr J.M. Woollard interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: I will make this point and then I will come back to the point raised by the member for Alfred Cove. Today when I was talking to these nurses, they said that historically there had been times when prison nurses were paid more than hospital nurses, and I said that was right. When they entered into an agreement, they signed it and they should honour that agreement. They are now trying to renegotiate an agreement that was signed off by the ANF and get an increase in pay for a period going back 18 months. We will not agree to it. We will honour the EBA that we signed - I think the Opposition signed it - covering that period. The new rates - the parity - will be backdated to the date on which that agreement expired. As part of my very significant experience in negotiating wages and working conditions on behalf of union members in this State, I am not familiar with the concept of allowing retrospectivity back into the life of a pre-existing agreement. I am not saying it has never happened, but I do not know that it has ever happened. Does any member have any knowledge of that happening? Never! We will not do it; it is not something that we have ever offered to the nurses. The best thing I can suggest to the prison nurses is that they have got parity and they have got a significant amount of back pay; therefore, they should get back to work and do their job, and they should do that as soon as possible because their actions are serving no purpose. Mr M.F. Board: Someone should have been honest with them and up-front about their position. It has taken a long time for them to be told. They were told, with circulars in hand, that they would receive parity from July 2001, because they came within the ANF and they were covered under those arrangements and it would be only a matter of time before the Government brought all the EBAs together. That is their understanding, and that is why they are so passionate about the matter. Mr J.A. McGINTY: From time to time people have understandings; sometimes they are not correct. I watched very closely as the Minister for Health resolved the nurses pay rise issue in the government hospital area. It was always my understanding from being very close to those negotiations that they would flow on to the prison nurses when their agreement expired, which was on 1 June this year. Whether other people have a different understanding, a misunderstanding or whatever, I cannot make it any clearer than to say that two of the three issues that this strike is allegedly about have been resolved. We have not agreed to that 12-month period of back pay going back into the life of the previous agreement, and we will not be paying back-pay for that other period. There is no point in them - Mr M.F. Board: Will you address the prison officer issue? Allegations have been made that prison officers are dispensing and administering drugs within the prison system. Mr J.A. McGINTY: Had the member given me some notice of that question, I would have been able to give a very straightforward answer. Mr M.F. Board: Are you prepared to tell us what the situation is? Mr J.A. McGINTY: Absolutely. I am happy to investigate that matter. Obviously we have prisoners who enjoy worse health than people in the general community; they need to get their medications. If nurses are not doing what they are paid and employed to do in the hospitals, we will not deny prisoners their prescribed medications. Mr M.F. Board interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: I am not sure that they are. The member for Murdoch has made an allegation. I do not think that is the case. If people have walked off the job, we will not deny prisoners lifesaving medication. Dr J.M. Woollard: The difference in salary is between the prison nurses and the agency nurses. The prison nurses believe this Government gave a commitment to pay them back pay to July 2001, and it has not kept its promise. More and more prison nurses are leaving and more and more agency nurses are moving into that area. Those agency nurses do not know the prisoners; they do not know their moods - Mr J.A. McGINTY: I can answer that very quickly. Nobody has ever argued that parity should exist between prison nurses and agency nurses. The member for Alfred Cove is the first one to put that claim forward; not even the ANF has put that claim forward. What the member is raising is a load of nonsense and it has no relevance. The figures raised by the member for Murdoch about the back pay and the payments for agency nurses do not sound right, but I will obtain more information. I make this simple request: if members are interested in answers to detailed questions, such as the amount of money that has been spent in a particular area, they should provide some notice and I will happily provide the information.
Mr J.A. McGINTY replied: (1)-(3) I am pleased to have the opportunity to fully explain the situation. It was a bit difficult yesterday because I was a bit like a yoyo, as you, Mr Speaker, intervened during the course of my answer. The offer has been made to the Western Australian branch of the Australian Nursing Federation for wage parity between prison nurses and hospital nurses. That is agreed. Today I noticed a sign over at Solidarity Park that read, “Nurses want parity”. They have got it; that is not in doubt any more. I have also instructed the department, because we have not been able to sign - Dr J.M. Woollard interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: Will the member listen. What do they want? Dr J.M. Woollard: They are paid less. Mr J.A. McGINTY: No, they are not. The member should clean the wax out of her ears and have a little listen. We have agreed to their wage claim that will give them parity, full stop. There is no longer any dispute about the wage rates between the ANF and the Government. Prison nurses will be paid the same as hospital nurses; parity has been achieved. Mr M.F. Board: Parity from July? Mr J.A. McGINTY: I am coming to the question of retrospectivity. That issue has been resolved. I cannot think of any more ways to say the same thing, but there is no dispute about parity; equally, there is no dispute about backdating this agreement. Mr M.F. Board: It does not look that way. Mr J.A. McGINTY: I will explain it. There is no dispute. We have agreed to pay back-pay to 1 June this year, the date on which the previous agreement covering the enterprise bargaining agreement for nurses working in prisons expired. We have gone back to the starting date of the agreement and have said that it will apply from that date. The first issue of parity has been achieved; the second issue is back pay, and we have agreed to date the offer from the expiry of the old agreement. The nub of the disagreement is for the 12 months going back through most of 2001 and into this year. Dr J.M. Woollard interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: I will answer this question first. I am happy to take interjections. I am told that an offer has never been made to the ANF to backdate this particular pay rise into the time of the previous agreement. Furthermore, that will not happen. So, if I have a simple message for the nurses, it is this: they have achieved parity; they have been offered back pay to 1 June this year, which is some five-and-a-half months; and under no circumstances will we agree to pay back-pay for a further 12 months into last year. Today I spoke to a few nurses who were here and I explained the position to them. I said that I had never seen evidence of an offer to prison nurses to backdate the payments to 15 or 18 months ago, and such a situation would be contrary to my instructions from the Department of Justice. Mr M.F. Board: Have you seen the circular to which I have referred? Mr J.A. McGINTY: There is a general administrative circular dealing with another issue - Dr J.M. Woollard interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: I will make this point and then I will come back to the point raised by the member for Alfred Cove. Today when I was talking to these nurses, they said that historically there had been times when prison nurses were paid more than hospital nurses, and I said that was right. When they entered into an agreement, they signed it and they should honour that agreement. They are now trying to renegotiate an agreement that was signed off by the ANF and get an increase in pay for a period going back 18 months. We will not agree to it. We will honour the EBA that we signed - I think the Opposition signed it - covering that period. The new rates - the parity - will be backdated to the date on which that agreement expired. As part of my very significant experience in negotiating wages and working conditions on behalf of union members in this State, I am not familiar with the concept of allowing retrospectivity back into the life of a pre-existing agreement. I am not saying it has never happened, but I do not know that it has ever happened. Does any member have any knowledge of that happening? Never! We will not do it; it is not something that we have ever offered to the nurses. The best thing I can suggest to the prison nurses is that they have got parity and they have got a significant amount of back pay; therefore, they should get back to work and do their job, and they should do that as soon as possible because their actions are serving no purpose. Mr M.F. Board: Someone should have been honest with them and up-front about their position. It has taken a long time for them to be told. They were told, with circulars in hand, that they would receive parity from July 2001, because they came within the ANF and they were covered under those arrangements and it would be only a matter of time before the Government brought all the EBAs together. That is their understanding, and that is why they are so passionate about the matter. Mr J.A. McGINTY: From time to time people have understandings; sometimes they are not correct. I watched very closely as the Minister for Health resolved the nurses pay rise issue in the government hospital area. It was always my understanding from being very close to those negotiations that they would flow on to the prison nurses when their agreement expired, which was on 1 June this year. Whether other people have a different understanding, a misunderstanding or whatever, I cannot make it any clearer than to say that two of the three issues that this strike is allegedly about have been resolved. We have not agreed to that 12-month period of back pay going back into the life of the previous agreement, and we will not be paying back-pay for that other period. There is no point in them - Mr M.F. Board: Will you address the prison officer issue? Allegations have been made that prison officers are dispensing and administering drugs within the prison system. Mr J.A. McGINTY: Had the member given me some notice of that question, I would have been able to give a very straightforward answer. Mr M.F. Board: Are you prepared to tell us what the situation is? Mr J.A. McGINTY: Absolutely. I am happy to investigate that matter. Obviously we have prisoners who enjoy worse health than people in the general community; they need to get their medications. If nurses are not doing what they are paid and employed to do in the hospitals, we will not deny prisoners their prescribed medications. Mr M.F. Board interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: I am not sure that they are. The member for Murdoch has made an allegation. I do not think that is the case. If people have walked off the job, we will not deny prisoners lifesaving medication. Dr J.M. Woollard: The difference in salary is between the prison nurses and the agency nurses. The prison nurses believe this Government gave a commitment to pay them back pay to July 2001, and it has not kept its promise. More and more prison nurses are leaving and more and more agency nurses are moving into that area. Those agency nurses do not know the prisoners; they do not know their moods - Mr J.A. McGINTY: I can answer that very quickly. Nobody has ever argued that parity should exist between prison nurses and agency nurses. The member for Alfred Cove is the first one to put that claim forward; not even the ANF has put that claim forward. What the member is raising is a load of nonsense and it has no relevance. The figures raised by the member for Murdoch about the back pay and the payments for agency nurses do not sound right, but I will obtain more information. I make this simple request: if members are interested in answers to detailed questions, such as the amount of money that has been spent in a particular area, they should provide some notice and I will happily provide the information.
(1)-(3) I am pleased to have the opportunity to fully explain the situation. It was a bit difficult yesterday because I was a bit like a yoyo, as you, Mr Speaker, intervened during the course of my answer. The offer has been made to the Western Australian branch of the Australian Nursing Federation for wage parity between prison nurses and hospital nurses. That is agreed. Today I noticed a sign over at Solidarity Park that read, “Nurses want parity”. They have got it; that is not in doubt any more. I have also instructed the department, because we have not been able to sign - Dr J.M. Woollard interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: Will the member listen. What do they want? Dr J.M. Woollard: They are paid less. Mr J.A. McGINTY: No, they are not. The member should clean the wax out of her ears and have a little listen. We have agreed to their wage claim that will give them parity, full stop. There is no longer any dispute about the wage rates between the ANF and the Government. Prison nurses will be paid the same as hospital nurses; parity has been achieved. Mr M.F. Board: Parity from July? Mr J.A. McGINTY: I am coming to the question of retrospectivity. That issue has been resolved. I cannot think of any more ways to say the same thing, but there is no dispute about parity; equally, there is no dispute about backdating this agreement. Mr M.F. Board: It does not look that way. Mr J.A. McGINTY: I will explain it. There is no dispute. We have agreed to pay back-pay to 1 June this year, the date on which the previous agreement covering the enterprise bargaining agreement for nurses working in prisons expired. We have gone back to the starting date of the agreement and have said that it will apply from that date. The first issue of parity has been achieved; the second issue is back pay, and we have agreed to date the offer from the expiry of the old agreement. The nub of the disagreement is for the 12 months going back through most of 2001 and into this year. Dr J.M. Woollard interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: I will answer this question first. I am happy to take interjections. I am told that an offer has never been made to the ANF to backdate this particular pay rise into the time of the previous agreement. Furthermore, that will not happen. So, if I have a simple message for the nurses, it is this: they have achieved parity; they have been offered back pay to 1 June this year, which is some five-and-a-half months; and under no circumstances will we agree to pay back-pay for a further 12 months into last year. Today I spoke to a few nurses who were here and I explained the position to them. I said that I had never seen evidence of an offer to prison nurses to backdate the payments to 15 or 18 months ago, and such a situation would be contrary to my instructions from the Department of Justice. Mr M.F. Board: Have you seen the circular to which I have referred? Mr J.A. McGINTY: There is a general administrative circular dealing with another issue - Dr J.M. Woollard interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: I will make this point and then I will come back to the point raised by the member for Alfred Cove. Today when I was talking to these nurses, they said that historically there had been times when prison nurses were paid more than hospital nurses, and I said that was right. When they entered into an agreement, they signed it and they should honour that agreement. They are now trying to renegotiate an agreement that was signed off by the ANF and get an increase in pay for a period going back 18 months. We will not agree to it. We will honour the EBA that we signed - I think the Opposition signed it - covering that period. The new rates - the parity - will be backdated to the date on which that agreement expired. As part of my very significant experience in negotiating wages and working conditions on behalf of union members in this State, I am not familiar with the concept of allowing retrospectivity back into the life of a pre-existing agreement. I am not saying it has never happened, but I do not know that it has ever happened. Does any member have any knowledge of that happening? Never! We will not do it; it is not something that we have ever offered to the nurses. The best thing I can suggest to the prison nurses is that they have got parity and they have got a significant amount of back pay; therefore, they should get back to work and do their job, and they should do that as soon as possible because their actions are serving no purpose. Mr M.F. Board: Someone should have been honest with them and up-front about their position. It has taken a long time for them to be told. They were told, with circulars in hand, that they would receive parity from July 2001, because they came within the ANF and they were covered under those arrangements and it would be only a matter of time before the Government brought all the EBAs together. That is their understanding, and that is why they are so passionate about the matter. Mr J.A. McGINTY: From time to time people have understandings; sometimes they are not correct. I watched very closely as the Minister for Health resolved the nurses pay rise issue in the government hospital area. It was always my understanding from being very close to those negotiations that they would flow on to the prison nurses when their agreement expired, which was on 1 June this year. Whether other people have a different understanding, a misunderstanding or whatever, I cannot make it any clearer than to say that two of the three issues that this strike is allegedly about have been resolved. We have not agreed to that 12-month period of back pay going back into the life of the previous agreement, and we will not be paying back-pay for that other period. There is no point in them - Mr M.F. Board: Will you address the prison officer issue? Allegations have been made that prison officers are dispensing and administering drugs within the prison system. Mr J.A. McGINTY: Had the member given me some notice of that question, I would have been able to give a very straightforward answer. Mr M.F. Board: Are you prepared to tell us what the situation is? Mr J.A. McGINTY: Absolutely. I am happy to investigate that matter. Obviously we have prisoners who enjoy worse health than people in the general community; they need to get their medications. If nurses are not doing what they are paid and employed to do in the hospitals, we will not deny prisoners their prescribed medications. Mr M.F. Board interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: I am not sure that they are. The member for Murdoch has made an allegation. I do not think that is the case. If people have walked off the job, we will not deny prisoners lifesaving medication. Dr J.M. Woollard: The difference in salary is between the prison nurses and the agency nurses. The prison nurses believe this Government gave a commitment to pay them back pay to July 2001, and it has not kept its promise. More and more prison nurses are leaving and more and more agency nurses are moving into that area. Those agency nurses do not know the prisoners; they do not know their moods - Mr J.A. McGINTY: I can answer that very quickly. Nobody has ever argued that parity should exist between prison nurses and agency nurses. The member for Alfred Cove is the first one to put that claim forward; not even the ANF has put that claim forward. What the member is raising is a load of nonsense and it has no relevance. The figures raised by the member for Murdoch about the back pay and the payments for agency nurses do not sound right, but I will obtain more information. I make this simple request: if members are interested in answers to detailed questions, such as the amount of money that has been spent in a particular area, they should provide some notice and I will happily provide the information.
Dr J.M. Woollard interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: Will the member listen. What do they want? Dr J.M. Woollard: They are paid less. Mr J.A. McGINTY: No, they are not. The member should clean the wax out of her ears and have a little listen. We have agreed to their wage claim that will give them parity, full stop. There is no longer any dispute about the wage rates between the ANF and the Government. Prison nurses will be paid the same as hospital nurses; parity has been achieved. Mr M.F. Board: Parity from July? Mr J.A. McGINTY: I am coming to the question of retrospectivity. That issue has been resolved. I cannot think of any more ways to say the same thing, but there is no dispute about parity; equally, there is no dispute about backdating this agreement. Mr M.F. Board: It does not look that way. Mr J.A. McGINTY: I will explain it. There is no dispute. We have agreed to pay back-pay to 1 June this year, the date on which the previous agreement covering the enterprise bargaining agreement for nurses working in prisons expired. We have gone back to the starting date of the agreement and have said that it will apply from that date. The first issue of parity has been achieved; the second issue is back pay, and we have agreed to date the offer from the expiry of the old agreement. The nub of the disagreement is for the 12 months going back through most of 2001 and into this year. Dr J.M. Woollard interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: I will answer this question first. I am happy to take interjections. I am told that an offer has never been made to the ANF to backdate this particular pay rise into the time of the previous agreement. Furthermore, that will not happen. So, if I have a simple message for the nurses, it is this: they have achieved parity; they have been offered back pay to 1 June this year, which is some five-and-a-half months; and under no circumstances will we agree to pay back-pay for a further 12 months into last year. Today I spoke to a few nurses who were here and I explained the position to them. I said that I had never seen evidence of an offer to prison nurses to backdate the payments to 15 or 18 months ago, and such a situation would be contrary to my instructions from the Department of Justice. Mr M.F. Board: Have you seen the circular to which I have referred? Mr J.A. McGINTY: There is a general administrative circular dealing with another issue - Dr J.M. Woollard interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: I will make this point and then I will come back to the point raised by the member for Alfred Cove. Today when I was talking to these nurses, they said that historically there had been times when prison nurses were paid more than hospital nurses, and I said that was right. When they entered into an agreement, they signed it and they should honour that agreement. They are now trying to renegotiate an agreement that was signed off by the ANF and get an increase in pay for a period going back 18 months. We will not agree to it. We will honour the EBA that we signed - I think the Opposition signed it - covering that period. The new rates - the parity - will be backdated to the date on which that agreement expired. As part of my very significant experience in negotiating wages and working conditions on behalf of union members in this State, I am not familiar with the concept of allowing retrospectivity back into the life of a pre-existing agreement. I am not saying it has never happened, but I do not know that it has ever happened. Does any member have any knowledge of that happening? Never! We will not do it; it is not something that we have ever offered to the nurses. The best thing I can suggest to the prison nurses is that they have got parity and they have got a significant amount of back pay; therefore, they should get back to work and do their job, and they should do that as soon as possible because their actions are serving no purpose. Mr M.F. Board: Someone should have been honest with them and up-front about their position. It has taken a long time for them to be told. They were told, with circulars in hand, that they would receive parity from July 2001, because they came within the ANF and they were covered under those arrangements and it would be only a matter of time before the Government brought all the EBAs together. That is their understanding, and that is why they are so passionate about the matter. Mr J.A. McGINTY: From time to time people have understandings; sometimes they are not correct. I watched very closely as the Minister for Health resolved the nurses pay rise issue in the government hospital area. It was always my understanding from being very close to those negotiations that they would flow on to the prison nurses when their agreement expired, which was on 1 June this year. Whether other people have a different understanding, a misunderstanding or whatever, I cannot make it any clearer than to say that two of the three issues that this strike is allegedly about have been resolved. We have not agreed to that 12-month period of back pay going back into the life of the previous agreement, and we will not be paying back-pay for that other period. There is no point in them - Mr M.F. Board: Will you address the prison officer issue? Allegations have been made that prison officers are dispensing and administering drugs within the prison system. Mr J.A. McGINTY: Had the member given me some notice of that question, I would have been able to give a very straightforward answer. Mr M.F. Board: Are you prepared to tell us what the situation is? Mr J.A. McGINTY: Absolutely. I am happy to investigate that matter. Obviously we have prisoners who enjoy worse health than people in the general community; they need to get their medications. If nurses are not doing what they are paid and employed to do in the hospitals, we will not deny prisoners their prescribed medications. Mr M.F. Board interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: I am not sure that they are. The member for Murdoch has made an allegation. I do not think that is the case. If people have walked off the job, we will not deny prisoners lifesaving medication. Dr J.M. Woollard: The difference in salary is between the prison nurses and the agency nurses. The prison nurses believe this Government gave a commitment to pay them back pay to July 2001, and it has not kept its promise. More and more prison nurses are leaving and more and more agency nurses are moving into that area. Those agency nurses do not know the prisoners; they do not know their moods - Mr J.A. McGINTY: I can answer that very quickly. Nobody has ever argued that parity should exist between prison nurses and agency nurses. The member for Alfred Cove is the first one to put that claim forward; not even the ANF has put that claim forward. What the member is raising is a load of nonsense and it has no relevance. The figures raised by the member for Murdoch about the back pay and the payments for agency nurses do not sound right, but I will obtain more information. I make this simple request: if members are interested in answers to detailed questions, such as the amount of money that has been spent in a particular area, they should provide some notice and I will happily provide the information.
Mr J.A. McGINTY: Will the member listen. What do they want? Dr J.M. Woollard: They are paid less. Mr J.A. McGINTY: No, they are not. The member should clean the wax out of her ears and have a little listen. We have agreed to their wage claim that will give them parity, full stop. There is no longer any dispute about the wage rates between the ANF and the Government. Prison nurses will be paid the same as hospital nurses; parity has been achieved. Mr M.F. Board: Parity from July? Mr J.A. McGINTY: I am coming to the question of retrospectivity. That issue has been resolved. I cannot think of any more ways to say the same thing, but there is no dispute about parity; equally, there is no dispute about backdating this agreement. Mr M.F. Board: It does not look that way. Mr J.A. McGINTY: I will explain it. There is no dispute. We have agreed to pay back-pay to 1 June this year, the date on which the previous agreement covering the enterprise bargaining agreement for nurses working in prisons expired. We have gone back to the starting date of the agreement and have said that it will apply from that date. The first issue of parity has been achieved; the second issue is back pay, and we have agreed to date the offer from the expiry of the old agreement. The nub of the disagreement is for the 12 months going back through most of 2001 and into this year. Dr J.M. Woollard interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: I will answer this question first. I am happy to take interjections. I am told that an offer has never been made to the ANF to backdate this particular pay rise into the time of the previous agreement. Furthermore, that will not happen. So, if I have a simple message for the nurses, it is this: they have achieved parity; they have been offered back pay to 1 June this year, which is some five-and-a-half months; and under no circumstances will we agree to pay back-pay for a further 12 months into last year. Today I spoke to a few nurses who were here and I explained the position to them. I said that I had never seen evidence of an offer to prison nurses to backdate the payments to 15 or 18 months ago, and such a situation would be contrary to my instructions from the Department of Justice. Mr M.F. Board: Have you seen the circular to which I have referred? Mr J.A. McGINTY: There is a general administrative circular dealing with another issue - Dr J.M. Woollard interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: I will make this point and then I will come back to the point raised by the member for Alfred Cove. Today when I was talking to these nurses, they said that historically there had been times when prison nurses were paid more than hospital nurses, and I said that was right. When they entered into an agreement, they signed it and they should honour that agreement. They are now trying to renegotiate an agreement that was signed off by the ANF and get an increase in pay for a period going back 18 months. We will not agree to it. We will honour the EBA that we signed - I think the Opposition signed it - covering that period. The new rates - the parity - will be backdated to the date on which that agreement expired. As part of my very significant experience in negotiating wages and working conditions on behalf of union members in this State, I am not familiar with the concept of allowing retrospectivity back into the life of a pre-existing agreement. I am not saying it has never happened, but I do not know that it has ever happened. Does any member have any knowledge of that happening? Never! We will not do it; it is not something that we have ever offered to the nurses. The best thing I can suggest to the prison nurses is that they have got parity and they have got a significant amount of back pay; therefore, they should get back to work and do their job, and they should do that as soon as possible because their actions are serving no purpose. Mr M.F. Board: Someone should have been honest with them and up-front about their position. It has taken a long time for them to be told. They were told, with circulars in hand, that they would receive parity from July 2001, because they came within the ANF and they were covered under those arrangements and it would be only a matter of time before the Government brought all the EBAs together. That is their understanding, and that is why they are so passionate about the matter. Mr J.A. McGINTY: From time to time people have understandings; sometimes they are not correct. I watched very closely as the Minister for Health resolved the nurses pay rise issue in the government hospital area. It was always my understanding from being very close to those negotiations that they would flow on to the prison nurses when their agreement expired, which was on 1 June this year. Whether other people have a different understanding, a misunderstanding or whatever, I cannot make it any clearer than to say that two of the three issues that this strike is allegedly about have been resolved. We have not agreed to that 12-month period of back pay going back into the life of the previous agreement, and we will not be paying back-pay for that other period. There is no point in them - Mr M.F. Board: Will you address the prison officer issue? Allegations have been made that prison officers are dispensing and administering drugs within the prison system. Mr J.A. McGINTY: Had the member given me some notice of that question, I would have been able to give a very straightforward answer. Mr M.F. Board: Are you prepared to tell us what the situation is? Mr J.A. McGINTY: Absolutely. I am happy to investigate that matter. Obviously we have prisoners who enjoy worse health than people in the general community; they need to get their medications. If nurses are not doing what they are paid and employed to do in the hospitals, we will not deny prisoners their prescribed medications. Mr M.F. Board interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: I am not sure that they are. The member for Murdoch has made an allegation. I do not think that is the case. If people have walked off the job, we will not deny prisoners lifesaving medication. Dr J.M. Woollard: The difference in salary is between the prison nurses and the agency nurses. The prison nurses believe this Government gave a commitment to pay them back pay to July 2001, and it has not kept its promise. More and more prison nurses are leaving and more and more agency nurses are moving into that area. Those agency nurses do not know the prisoners; they do not know their moods - Mr J.A. McGINTY: I can answer that very quickly. Nobody has ever argued that parity should exist between prison nurses and agency nurses. The member for Alfred Cove is the first one to put that claim forward; not even the ANF has put that claim forward. What the member is raising is a load of nonsense and it has no relevance. The figures raised by the member for Murdoch about the back pay and the payments for agency nurses do not sound right, but I will obtain more information. I make this simple request: if members are interested in answers to detailed questions, such as the amount of money that has been spent in a particular area, they should provide some notice and I will happily provide the information.
Dr J.M. Woollard: They are paid less. Mr J.A. McGINTY: No, they are not. The member should clean the wax out of her ears and have a little listen. We have agreed to their wage claim that will give them parity, full stop. There is no longer any dispute about the wage rates between the ANF and the Government. Prison nurses will be paid the same as hospital nurses; parity has been achieved. Mr M.F. Board: Parity from July? Mr J.A. McGINTY: I am coming to the question of retrospectivity. That issue has been resolved. I cannot think of any more ways to say the same thing, but there is no dispute about parity; equally, there is no dispute about backdating this agreement. Mr M.F. Board: It does not look that way. Mr J.A. McGINTY: I will explain it. There is no dispute. We have agreed to pay back-pay to 1 June this year, the date on which the previous agreement covering the enterprise bargaining agreement for nurses working in prisons expired. We have gone back to the starting date of the agreement and have said that it will apply from that date. The first issue of parity has been achieved; the second issue is back pay, and we have agreed to date the offer from the expiry of the old agreement. The nub of the disagreement is for the 12 months going back through most of 2001 and into this year. Dr J.M. Woollard interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: I will answer this question first. I am happy to take interjections. I am told that an offer has never been made to the ANF to backdate this particular pay rise into the time of the previous agreement. Furthermore, that will not happen. So, if I have a simple message for the nurses, it is this: they have achieved parity; they have been offered back pay to 1 June this year, which is some five-and-a-half months; and under no circumstances will we agree to pay back-pay for a further 12 months into last year. Today I spoke to a few nurses who were here and I explained the position to them. I said that I had never seen evidence of an offer to prison nurses to backdate the payments to 15 or 18 months ago, and such a situation would be contrary to my instructions from the Department of Justice. Mr M.F. Board: Have you seen the circular to which I have referred? Mr J.A. McGINTY: There is a general administrative circular dealing with another issue - Dr J.M. Woollard interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: I will make this point and then I will come back to the point raised by the member for Alfred Cove. Today when I was talking to these nurses, they said that historically there had been times when prison nurses were paid more than hospital nurses, and I said that was right. When they entered into an agreement, they signed it and they should honour that agreement. They are now trying to renegotiate an agreement that was signed off by the ANF and get an increase in pay for a period going back 18 months. We will not agree to it. We will honour the EBA that we signed - I think the Opposition signed it - covering that period. The new rates - the parity - will be backdated to the date on which that agreement expired. As part of my very significant experience in negotiating wages and working conditions on behalf of union members in this State, I am not familiar with the concept of allowing retrospectivity back into the life of a pre-existing agreement. I am not saying it has never happened, but I do not know that it has ever happened. Does any member have any knowledge of that happening? Never! We will not do it; it is not something that we have ever offered to the nurses. The best thing I can suggest to the prison nurses is that they have got parity and they have got a significant amount of back pay; therefore, they should get back to work and do their job, and they should do that as soon as possible because their actions are serving no purpose. Mr M.F. Board: Someone should have been honest with them and up-front about their position. It has taken a long time for them to be told. They were told, with circulars in hand, that they would receive parity from July 2001, because they came within the ANF and they were covered under those arrangements and it would be only a matter of time before the Government brought all the EBAs together. That is their understanding, and that is why they are so passionate about the matter. Mr J.A. McGINTY: From time to time people have understandings; sometimes they are not correct. I watched very closely as the Minister for Health resolved the nurses pay rise issue in the government hospital area. It was always my understanding from being very close to those negotiations that they would flow on to the prison nurses when their agreement expired, which was on 1 June this year. Whether other people have a different understanding, a misunderstanding or whatever, I cannot make it any clearer than to say that two of the three issues that this strike is allegedly about have been resolved. We have not agreed to that 12-month period of back pay going back into the life of the previous agreement, and we will not be paying back-pay for that other period. There is no point in them - Mr M.F. Board: Will you address the prison officer issue? Allegations have been made that prison officers are dispensing and administering drugs within the prison system. Mr J.A. McGINTY: Had the member given me some notice of that question, I would have been able to give a very straightforward answer. Mr M.F. Board: Are you prepared to tell us what the situation is? Mr J.A. McGINTY: Absolutely. I am happy to investigate that matter. Obviously we have prisoners who enjoy worse health than people in the general community; they need to get their medications. If nurses are not doing what they are paid and employed to do in the hospitals, we will not deny prisoners their prescribed medications. Mr M.F. Board interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: I am not sure that they are. The member for Murdoch has made an allegation. I do not think that is the case. If people have walked off the job, we will not deny prisoners lifesaving medication. Dr J.M. Woollard: The difference in salary is between the prison nurses and the agency nurses. The prison nurses believe this Government gave a commitment to pay them back pay to July 2001, and it has not kept its promise. More and more prison nurses are leaving and more and more agency nurses are moving into that area. Those agency nurses do not know the prisoners; they do not know their moods - Mr J.A. McGINTY: I can answer that very quickly. Nobody has ever argued that parity should exist between prison nurses and agency nurses. The member for Alfred Cove is the first one to put that claim forward; not even the ANF has put that claim forward. What the member is raising is a load of nonsense and it has no relevance. The figures raised by the member for Murdoch about the back pay and the payments for agency nurses do not sound right, but I will obtain more information. I make this simple request: if members are interested in answers to detailed questions, such as the amount of money that has been spent in a particular area, they should provide some notice and I will happily provide the information.
Mr J.A. McGINTY: No, they are not. The member should clean the wax out of her ears and have a little listen. We have agreed to their wage claim that will give them parity, full stop. There is no longer any dispute about the wage rates between the ANF and the Government. Prison nurses will be paid the same as hospital nurses; parity has been achieved. Mr M.F. Board: Parity from July? Mr J.A. McGINTY: I am coming to the question of retrospectivity. That issue has been resolved. I cannot think of any more ways to say the same thing, but there is no dispute about parity; equally, there is no dispute about backdating this agreement. Mr M.F. Board: It does not look that way. Mr J.A. McGINTY: I will explain it. There is no dispute. We have agreed to pay back-pay to 1 June this year, the date on which the previous agreement covering the enterprise bargaining agreement for nurses working in prisons expired. We have gone back to the starting date of the agreement and have said that it will apply from that date. The first issue of parity has been achieved; the second issue is back pay, and we have agreed to date the offer from the expiry of the old agreement. The nub of the disagreement is for the 12 months going back through most of 2001 and into this year. Dr J.M. Woollard interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: I will answer this question first. I am happy to take interjections. I am told that an offer has never been made to the ANF to backdate this particular pay rise into the time of the previous agreement. Furthermore, that will not happen. So, if I have a simple message for the nurses, it is this: they have achieved parity; they have been offered back pay to 1 June this year, which is some five-and-a-half months; and under no circumstances will we agree to pay back-pay for a further 12 months into last year. Today I spoke to a few nurses who were here and I explained the position to them. I said that I had never seen evidence of an offer to prison nurses to backdate the payments to 15 or 18 months ago, and such a situation would be contrary to my instructions from the Department of Justice. Mr M.F. Board: Have you seen the circular to which I have referred? Mr J.A. McGINTY: There is a general administrative circular dealing with another issue - Dr J.M. Woollard interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: I will make this point and then I will come back to the point raised by the member for Alfred Cove. Today when I was talking to these nurses, they said that historically there had been times when prison nurses were paid more than hospital nurses, and I said that was right. When they entered into an agreement, they signed it and they should honour that agreement. They are now trying to renegotiate an agreement that was signed off by the ANF and get an increase in pay for a period going back 18 months. We will not agree to it. We will honour the EBA that we signed - I think the Opposition signed it - covering that period. The new rates - the parity - will be backdated to the date on which that agreement expired. As part of my very significant experience in negotiating wages and working conditions on behalf of union members in this State, I am not familiar with the concept of allowing retrospectivity back into the life of a pre-existing agreement. I am not saying it has never happened, but I do not know that it has ever happened. Does any member have any knowledge of that happening? Never! We will not do it; it is not something that we have ever offered to the nurses. The best thing I can suggest to the prison nurses is that they have got parity and they have got a significant amount of back pay; therefore, they should get back to work and do their job, and they should do that as soon as possible because their actions are serving no purpose. Mr M.F. Board: Someone should have been honest with them and up-front about their position. It has taken a long time for them to be told. They were told, with circulars in hand, that they would receive parity from July 2001, because they came within the ANF and they were covered under those arrangements and it would be only a matter of time before the Government brought all the EBAs together. That is their understanding, and that is why they are so passionate about the matter. Mr J.A. McGINTY: From time to time people have understandings; sometimes they are not correct. I watched very closely as the Minister for Health resolved the nurses pay rise issue in the government hospital area. It was always my understanding from being very close to those negotiations that they would flow on to the prison nurses when their agreement expired, which was on 1 June this year. Whether other people have a different understanding, a misunderstanding or whatever, I cannot make it any clearer than to say that two of the three issues that this strike is allegedly about have been resolved. We have not agreed to that 12-month period of back pay going back into the life of the previous agreement, and we will not be paying back-pay for that other period. There is no point in them - Mr M.F. Board: Will you address the prison officer issue? Allegations have been made that prison officers are dispensing and administering drugs within the prison system. Mr J.A. McGINTY: Had the member given me some notice of that question, I would have been able to give a very straightforward answer. Mr M.F. Board: Are you prepared to tell us what the situation is? Mr J.A. McGINTY: Absolutely. I am happy to investigate that matter. Obviously we have prisoners who enjoy worse health than people in the general community; they need to get their medications. If nurses are not doing what they are paid and employed to do in the hospitals, we will not deny prisoners their prescribed medications. Mr M.F. Board interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: I am not sure that they are. The member for Murdoch has made an allegation. I do not think that is the case. If people have walked off the job, we will not deny prisoners lifesaving medication. Dr J.M. Woollard: The difference in salary is between the prison nurses and the agency nurses. The prison nurses believe this Government gave a commitment to pay them back pay to July 2001, and it has not kept its promise. More and more prison nurses are leaving and more and more agency nurses are moving into that area. Those agency nurses do not know the prisoners; they do not know their moods - Mr J.A. McGINTY: I can answer that very quickly. Nobody has ever argued that parity should exist between prison nurses and agency nurses. The member for Alfred Cove is the first one to put that claim forward; not even the ANF has put that claim forward. What the member is raising is a load of nonsense and it has no relevance. The figures raised by the member for Murdoch about the back pay and the payments for agency nurses do not sound right, but I will obtain more information. I make this simple request: if members are interested in answers to detailed questions, such as the amount of money that has been spent in a particular area, they should provide some notice and I will happily provide the information.
Mr M.F. Board: Parity from July? Mr J.A. McGINTY: I am coming to the question of retrospectivity. That issue has been resolved. I cannot think of any more ways to say the same thing, but there is no dispute about parity; equally, there is no dispute about backdating this agreement. Mr M.F. Board: It does not look that way. Mr J.A. McGINTY: I will explain it. There is no dispute. We have agreed to pay back-pay to 1 June this year, the date on which the previous agreement covering the enterprise bargaining agreement for nurses working in prisons expired. We have gone back to the starting date of the agreement and have said that it will apply from that date. The first issue of parity has been achieved; the second issue is back pay, and we have agreed to date the offer from the expiry of the old agreement. The nub of the disagreement is for the 12 months going back through most of 2001 and into this year. Dr J.M. Woollard interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: I will answer this question first. I am happy to take interjections. I am told that an offer has never been made to the ANF to backdate this particular pay rise into the time of the previous agreement. Furthermore, that will not happen. So, if I have a simple message for the nurses, it is this: they have achieved parity; they have been offered back pay to 1 June this year, which is some five-and-a-half months; and under no circumstances will we agree to pay back-pay for a further 12 months into last year. Today I spoke to a few nurses who were here and I explained the position to them. I said that I had never seen evidence of an offer to prison nurses to backdate the payments to 15 or 18 months ago, and such a situation would be contrary to my instructions from the Department of Justice. Mr M.F. Board: Have you seen the circular to which I have referred? Mr J.A. McGINTY: There is a general administrative circular dealing with another issue - Dr J.M. Woollard interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: I will make this point and then I will come back to the point raised by the member for Alfred Cove. Today when I was talking to these nurses, they said that historically there had been times when prison nurses were paid more than hospital nurses, and I said that was right. When they entered into an agreement, they signed it and they should honour that agreement. They are now trying to renegotiate an agreement that was signed off by the ANF and get an increase in pay for a period going back 18 months. We will not agree to it. We will honour the EBA that we signed - I think the Opposition signed it - covering that period. The new rates - the parity - will be backdated to the date on which that agreement expired. As part of my very significant experience in negotiating wages and working conditions on behalf of union members in this State, I am not familiar with the concept of allowing retrospectivity back into the life of a pre-existing agreement. I am not saying it has never happened, but I do not know that it has ever happened. Does any member have any knowledge of that happening? Never! We will not do it; it is not something that we have ever offered to the nurses. The best thing I can suggest to the prison nurses is that they have got parity and they have got a significant amount of back pay; therefore, they should get back to work and do their job, and they should do that as soon as possible because their actions are serving no purpose. Mr M.F. Board: Someone should have been honest with them and up-front about their position. It has taken a long time for them to be told. They were told, with circulars in hand, that they would receive parity from July 2001, because they came within the ANF and they were covered under those arrangements and it would be only a matter of time before the Government brought all the EBAs together. That is their understanding, and that is why they are so passionate about the matter. Mr J.A. McGINTY: From time to time people have understandings; sometimes they are not correct. I watched very closely as the Minister for Health resolved the nurses pay rise issue in the government hospital area. It was always my understanding from being very close to those negotiations that they would flow on to the prison nurses when their agreement expired, which was on 1 June this year. Whether other people have a different understanding, a misunderstanding or whatever, I cannot make it any clearer than to say that two of the three issues that this strike is allegedly about have been resolved. We have not agreed to that 12-month period of back pay going back into the life of the previous agreement, and we will not be paying back-pay for that other period. There is no point in them - Mr M.F. Board: Will you address the prison officer issue? Allegations have been made that prison officers are dispensing and administering drugs within the prison system. Mr J.A. McGINTY: Had the member given me some notice of that question, I would have been able to give a very straightforward answer. Mr M.F. Board: Are you prepared to tell us what the situation is? Mr J.A. McGINTY: Absolutely. I am happy to investigate that matter. Obviously we have prisoners who enjoy worse health than people in the general community; they need to get their medications. If nurses are not doing what they are paid and employed to do in the hospitals, we will not deny prisoners their prescribed medications. Mr M.F. Board interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: I am not sure that they are. The member for Murdoch has made an allegation. I do not think that is the case. If people have walked off the job, we will not deny prisoners lifesaving medication. Dr J.M. Woollard: The difference in salary is between the prison nurses and the agency nurses. The prison nurses believe this Government gave a commitment to pay them back pay to July 2001, and it has not kept its promise. More and more prison nurses are leaving and more and more agency nurses are moving into that area. Those agency nurses do not know the prisoners; they do not know their moods - Mr J.A. McGINTY: I can answer that very quickly. Nobody has ever argued that parity should exist between prison nurses and agency nurses. The member for Alfred Cove is the first one to put that claim forward; not even the ANF has put that claim forward. What the member is raising is a load of nonsense and it has no relevance. The figures raised by the member for Murdoch about the back pay and the payments for agency nurses do not sound right, but I will obtain more information. I make this simple request: if members are interested in answers to detailed questions, such as the amount of money that has been spent in a particular area, they should provide some notice and I will happily provide the information.
Mr J.A. McGINTY: I am coming to the question of retrospectivity. That issue has been resolved. I cannot think of any more ways to say the same thing, but there is no dispute about parity; equally, there is no dispute about backdating this agreement. Mr M.F. Board: It does not look that way. Mr J.A. McGINTY: I will explain it. There is no dispute. We have agreed to pay back-pay to 1 June this year, the date on which the previous agreement covering the enterprise bargaining agreement for nurses working in prisons expired. We have gone back to the starting date of the agreement and have said that it will apply from that date. The first issue of parity has been achieved; the second issue is back pay, and we have agreed to date the offer from the expiry of the old agreement. The nub of the disagreement is for the 12 months going back through most of 2001 and into this year. Dr J.M. Woollard interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: I will answer this question first. I am happy to take interjections. I am told that an offer has never been made to the ANF to backdate this particular pay rise into the time of the previous agreement. Furthermore, that will not happen. So, if I have a simple message for the nurses, it is this: they have achieved parity; they have been offered back pay to 1 June this year, which is some five-and-a-half months; and under no circumstances will we agree to pay back-pay for a further 12 months into last year. Today I spoke to a few nurses who were here and I explained the position to them. I said that I had never seen evidence of an offer to prison nurses to backdate the payments to 15 or 18 months ago, and such a situation would be contrary to my instructions from the Department of Justice. Mr M.F. Board: Have you seen the circular to which I have referred? Mr J.A. McGINTY: There is a general administrative circular dealing with another issue - Dr J.M. Woollard interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: I will make this point and then I will come back to the point raised by the member for Alfred Cove. Today when I was talking to these nurses, they said that historically there had been times when prison nurses were paid more than hospital nurses, and I said that was right. When they entered into an agreement, they signed it and they should honour that agreement. They are now trying to renegotiate an agreement that was signed off by the ANF and get an increase in pay for a period going back 18 months. We will not agree to it. We will honour the EBA that we signed - I think the Opposition signed it - covering that period. The new rates - the parity - will be backdated to the date on which that agreement expired. As part of my very significant experience in negotiating wages and working conditions on behalf of union members in this State, I am not familiar with the concept of allowing retrospectivity back into the life of a pre-existing agreement. I am not saying it has never happened, but I do not know that it has ever happened. Does any member have any knowledge of that happening? Never! We will not do it; it is not something that we have ever offered to the nurses. The best thing I can suggest to the prison nurses is that they have got parity and they have got a significant amount of back pay; therefore, they should get back to work and do their job, and they should do that as soon as possible because their actions are serving no purpose. Mr M.F. Board: Someone should have been honest with them and up-front about their position. It has taken a long time for them to be told. They were told, with circulars in hand, that they would receive parity from July 2001, because they came within the ANF and they were covered under those arrangements and it would be only a matter of time before the Government brought all the EBAs together. That is their understanding, and that is why they are so passionate about the matter. Mr J.A. McGINTY: From time to time people have understandings; sometimes they are not correct. I watched very closely as the Minister for Health resolved the nurses pay rise issue in the government hospital area. It was always my understanding from being very close to those negotiations that they would flow on to the prison nurses when their agreement expired, which was on 1 June this year. Whether other people have a different understanding, a misunderstanding or whatever, I cannot make it any clearer than to say that two of the three issues that this strike is allegedly about have been resolved. We have not agreed to that 12-month period of back pay going back into the life of the previous agreement, and we will not be paying back-pay for that other period. There is no point in them - Mr M.F. Board: Will you address the prison officer issue? Allegations have been made that prison officers are dispensing and administering drugs within the prison system. Mr J.A. McGINTY: Had the member given me some notice of that question, I would have been able to give a very straightforward answer. Mr M.F. Board: Are you prepared to tell us what the situation is? Mr J.A. McGINTY: Absolutely. I am happy to investigate that matter. Obviously we have prisoners who enjoy worse health than people in the general community; they need to get their medications. If nurses are not doing what they are paid and employed to do in the hospitals, we will not deny prisoners their prescribed medications. Mr M.F. Board interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: I am not sure that they are. The member for Murdoch has made an allegation. I do not think that is the case. If people have walked off the job, we will not deny prisoners lifesaving medication. Dr J.M. Woollard: The difference in salary is between the prison nurses and the agency nurses. The prison nurses believe this Government gave a commitment to pay them back pay to July 2001, and it has not kept its promise. More and more prison nurses are leaving and more and more agency nurses are moving into that area. Those agency nurses do not know the prisoners; they do not know their moods - Mr J.A. McGINTY: I can answer that very quickly. Nobody has ever argued that parity should exist between prison nurses and agency nurses. The member for Alfred Cove is the first one to put that claim forward; not even the ANF has put that claim forward. What the member is raising is a load of nonsense and it has no relevance. The figures raised by the member for Murdoch about the back pay and the payments for agency nurses do not sound right, but I will obtain more information. I make this simple request: if members are interested in answers to detailed questions, such as the amount of money that has been spent in a particular area, they should provide some notice and I will happily provide the information.
Mr M.F. Board: It does not look that way. Mr J.A. McGINTY: I will explain it. There is no dispute. We have agreed to pay back-pay to 1 June this year, the date on which the previous agreement covering the enterprise bargaining agreement for nurses working in prisons expired. We have gone back to the starting date of the agreement and have said that it will apply from that date. The first issue of parity has been achieved; the second issue is back pay, and we have agreed to date the offer from the expiry of the old agreement. The nub of the disagreement is for the 12 months going back through most of 2001 and into this year. Dr J.M. Woollard interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: I will answer this question first. I am happy to take interjections. I am told that an offer has never been made to the ANF to backdate this particular pay rise into the time of the previous agreement. Furthermore, that will not happen. So, if I have a simple message for the nurses, it is this: they have achieved parity; they have been offered back pay to 1 June this year, which is some five-and-a-half months; and under no circumstances will we agree to pay back-pay for a further 12 months into last year. Today I spoke to a few nurses who were here and I explained the position to them. I said that I had never seen evidence of an offer to prison nurses to backdate the payments to 15 or 18 months ago, and such a situation would be contrary to my instructions from the Department of Justice. Mr M.F. Board: Have you seen the circular to which I have referred? Mr J.A. McGINTY: There is a general administrative circular dealing with another issue - Dr J.M. Woollard interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: I will make this point and then I will come back to the point raised by the member for Alfred Cove. Today when I was talking to these nurses, they said that historically there had been times when prison nurses were paid more than hospital nurses, and I said that was right. When they entered into an agreement, they signed it and they should honour that agreement. They are now trying to renegotiate an agreement that was signed off by the ANF and get an increase in pay for a period going back 18 months. We will not agree to it. We will honour the EBA that we signed - I think the Opposition signed it - covering that period. The new rates - the parity - will be backdated to the date on which that agreement expired. As part of my very significant experience in negotiating wages and working conditions on behalf of union members in this State, I am not familiar with the concept of allowing retrospectivity back into the life of a pre-existing agreement. I am not saying it has never happened, but I do not know that it has ever happened. Does any member have any knowledge of that happening? Never! We will not do it; it is not something that we have ever offered to the nurses. The best thing I can suggest to the prison nurses is that they have got parity and they have got a significant amount of back pay; therefore, they should get back to work and do their job, and they should do that as soon as possible because their actions are serving no purpose. Mr M.F. Board: Someone should have been honest with them and up-front about their position. It has taken a long time for them to be told. They were told, with circulars in hand, that they would receive parity from July 2001, because they came within the ANF and they were covered under those arrangements and it would be only a matter of time before the Government brought all the EBAs together. That is their understanding, and that is why they are so passionate about the matter. Mr J.A. McGINTY: From time to time people have understandings; sometimes they are not correct. I watched very closely as the Minister for Health resolved the nurses pay rise issue in the government hospital area. It was always my understanding from being very close to those negotiations that they would flow on to the prison nurses when their agreement expired, which was on 1 June this year. Whether other people have a different understanding, a misunderstanding or whatever, I cannot make it any clearer than to say that two of the three issues that this strike is allegedly about have been resolved. We have not agreed to that 12-month period of back pay going back into the life of the previous agreement, and we will not be paying back-pay for that other period. There is no point in them - Mr M.F. Board: Will you address the prison officer issue? Allegations have been made that prison officers are dispensing and administering drugs within the prison system. Mr J.A. McGINTY: Had the member given me some notice of that question, I would have been able to give a very straightforward answer. Mr M.F. Board: Are you prepared to tell us what the situation is? Mr J.A. McGINTY: Absolutely. I am happy to investigate that matter. Obviously we have prisoners who enjoy worse health than people in the general community; they need to get their medications. If nurses are not doing what they are paid and employed to do in the hospitals, we will not deny prisoners their prescribed medications. Mr M.F. Board interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: I am not sure that they are. The member for Murdoch has made an allegation. I do not think that is the case. If people have walked off the job, we will not deny prisoners lifesaving medication. Dr J.M. Woollard: The difference in salary is between the prison nurses and the agency nurses. The prison nurses believe this Government gave a commitment to pay them back pay to July 2001, and it has not kept its promise. More and more prison nurses are leaving and more and more agency nurses are moving into that area. Those agency nurses do not know the prisoners; they do not know their moods - Mr J.A. McGINTY: I can answer that very quickly. Nobody has ever argued that parity should exist between prison nurses and agency nurses. The member for Alfred Cove is the first one to put that claim forward; not even the ANF has put that claim forward. What the member is raising is a load of nonsense and it has no relevance. The figures raised by the member for Murdoch about the back pay and the payments for agency nurses do not sound right, but I will obtain more information. I make this simple request: if members are interested in answers to detailed questions, such as the amount of money that has been spent in a particular area, they should provide some notice and I will happily provide the information.
Mr J.A. McGINTY: I will explain it. There is no dispute. We have agreed to pay back-pay to 1 June this year, the date on which the previous agreement covering the enterprise bargaining agreement for nurses working in prisons expired. We have gone back to the starting date of the agreement and have said that it will apply from that date. The first issue of parity has been achieved; the second issue is back pay, and we have agreed to date the offer from the expiry of the old agreement. The nub of the disagreement is for the 12 months going back through most of 2001 and into this year. Dr J.M. Woollard interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: I will answer this question first. I am happy to take interjections. I am told that an offer has never been made to the ANF to backdate this particular pay rise into the time of the previous agreement. Furthermore, that will not happen. So, if I have a simple message for the nurses, it is this: they have achieved parity; they have been offered back pay to 1 June this year, which is some five-and-a-half months; and under no circumstances will we agree to pay back-pay for a further 12 months into last year. Today I spoke to a few nurses who were here and I explained the position to them. I said that I had never seen evidence of an offer to prison nurses to backdate the payments to 15 or 18 months ago, and such a situation would be contrary to my instructions from the Department of Justice. Mr M.F. Board: Have you seen the circular to which I have referred? Mr J.A. McGINTY: There is a general administrative circular dealing with another issue - Dr J.M. Woollard interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: I will make this point and then I will come back to the point raised by the member for Alfred Cove. Today when I was talking to these nurses, they said that historically there had been times when prison nurses were paid more than hospital nurses, and I said that was right. When they entered into an agreement, they signed it and they should honour that agreement. They are now trying to renegotiate an agreement that was signed off by the ANF and get an increase in pay for a period going back 18 months. We will not agree to it. We will honour the EBA that we signed - I think the Opposition signed it - covering that period. The new rates - the parity - will be backdated to the date on which that agreement expired. As part of my very significant experience in negotiating wages and working conditions on behalf of union members in this State, I am not familiar with the concept of allowing retrospectivity back into the life of a pre-existing agreement. I am not saying it has never happened, but I do not know that it has ever happened. Does any member have any knowledge of that happening? Never! We will not do it; it is not something that we have ever offered to the nurses. The best thing I can suggest to the prison nurses is that they have got parity and they have got a significant amount of back pay; therefore, they should get back to work and do their job, and they should do that as soon as possible because their actions are serving no purpose. Mr M.F. Board: Someone should have been honest with them and up-front about their position. It has taken a long time for them to be told. They were told, with circulars in hand, that they would receive parity from July 2001, because they came within the ANF and they were covered under those arrangements and it would be only a matter of time before the Government brought all the EBAs together. That is their understanding, and that is why they are so passionate about the matter. Mr J.A. McGINTY: From time to time people have understandings; sometimes they are not correct. I watched very closely as the Minister for Health resolved the nurses pay rise issue in the government hospital area. It was always my understanding from being very close to those negotiations that they would flow on to the prison nurses when their agreement expired, which was on 1 June this year. Whether other people have a different understanding, a misunderstanding or whatever, I cannot make it any clearer than to say that two of the three issues that this strike is allegedly about have been resolved. We have not agreed to that 12-month period of back pay going back into the life of the previous agreement, and we will not be paying back-pay for that other period. There is no point in them - Mr M.F. Board: Will you address the prison officer issue? Allegations have been made that prison officers are dispensing and administering drugs within the prison system. Mr J.A. McGINTY: Had the member given me some notice of that question, I would have been able to give a very straightforward answer. Mr M.F. Board: Are you prepared to tell us what the situation is? Mr J.A. McGINTY: Absolutely. I am happy to investigate that matter. Obviously we have prisoners who enjoy worse health than people in the general community; they need to get their medications. If nurses are not doing what they are paid and employed to do in the hospitals, we will not deny prisoners their prescribed medications. Mr M.F. Board interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: I am not sure that they are. The member for Murdoch has made an allegation. I do not think that is the case. If people have walked off the job, we will not deny prisoners lifesaving medication. Dr J.M. Woollard: The difference in salary is between the prison nurses and the agency nurses. The prison nurses believe this Government gave a commitment to pay them back pay to July 2001, and it has not kept its promise. More and more prison nurses are leaving and more and more agency nurses are moving into that area. Those agency nurses do not know the prisoners; they do not know their moods - Mr J.A. McGINTY: I can answer that very quickly. Nobody has ever argued that parity should exist between prison nurses and agency nurses. The member for Alfred Cove is the first one to put that claim forward; not even the ANF has put that claim forward. What the member is raising is a load of nonsense and it has no relevance. The figures raised by the member for Murdoch about the back pay and the payments for agency nurses do not sound right, but I will obtain more information. I make this simple request: if members are interested in answers to detailed questions, such as the amount of money that has been spent in a particular area, they should provide some notice and I will happily provide the information.
Dr J.M. Woollard interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: I will answer this question first. I am happy to take interjections. I am told that an offer has never been made to the ANF to backdate this particular pay rise into the time of the previous agreement. Furthermore, that will not happen. So, if I have a simple message for the nurses, it is this: they have achieved parity; they have been offered back pay to 1 June this year, which is some five-and-a-half months; and under no circumstances will we agree to pay back-pay for a further 12 months into last year. Today I spoke to a few nurses who were here and I explained the position to them. I said that I had never seen evidence of an offer to prison nurses to backdate the payments to 15 or 18 months ago, and such a situation would be contrary to my instructions from the Department of Justice. Mr M.F. Board: Have you seen the circular to which I have referred? Mr J.A. McGINTY: There is a general administrative circular dealing with another issue - Dr J.M. Woollard interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: I will make this point and then I will come back to the point raised by the member for Alfred Cove. Today when I was talking to these nurses, they said that historically there had been times when prison nurses were paid more than hospital nurses, and I said that was right. When they entered into an agreement, they signed it and they should honour that agreement. They are now trying to renegotiate an agreement that was signed off by the ANF and get an increase in pay for a period going back 18 months. We will not agree to it. We will honour the EBA that we signed - I think the Opposition signed it - covering that period. The new rates - the parity - will be backdated to the date on which that agreement expired. As part of my very significant experience in negotiating wages and working conditions on behalf of union members in this State, I am not familiar with the concept of allowing retrospectivity back into the life of a pre-existing agreement. I am not saying it has never happened, but I do not know that it has ever happened. Does any member have any knowledge of that happening? Never! We will not do it; it is not something that we have ever offered to the nurses. The best thing I can suggest to the prison nurses is that they have got parity and they have got a significant amount of back pay; therefore, they should get back to work and do their job, and they should do that as soon as possible because their actions are serving no purpose. Mr M.F. Board: Someone should have been honest with them and up-front about their position. It has taken a long time for them to be told. They were told, with circulars in hand, that they would receive parity from July 2001, because they came within the ANF and they were covered under those arrangements and it would be only a matter of time before the Government brought all the EBAs together. That is their understanding, and that is why they are so passionate about the matter. Mr J.A. McGINTY: From time to time people have understandings; sometimes they are not correct. I watched very closely as the Minister for Health resolved the nurses pay rise issue in the government hospital area. It was always my understanding from being very close to those negotiations that they would flow on to the prison nurses when their agreement expired, which was on 1 June this year. Whether other people have a different understanding, a misunderstanding or whatever, I cannot make it any clearer than to say that two of the three issues that this strike is allegedly about have been resolved. We have not agreed to that 12-month period of back pay going back into the life of the previous agreement, and we will not be paying back-pay for that other period. There is no point in them - Mr M.F. Board: Will you address the prison officer issue? Allegations have been made that prison officers are dispensing and administering drugs within the prison system. Mr J.A. McGINTY: Had the member given me some notice of that question, I would have been able to give a very straightforward answer. Mr M.F. Board: Are you prepared to tell us what the situation is? Mr J.A. McGINTY: Absolutely. I am happy to investigate that matter. Obviously we have prisoners who enjoy worse health than people in the general community; they need to get their medications. If nurses are not doing what they are paid and employed to do in the hospitals, we will not deny prisoners their prescribed medications. Mr M.F. Board interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: I am not sure that they are. The member for Murdoch has made an allegation. I do not think that is the case. If people have walked off the job, we will not deny prisoners lifesaving medication. Dr J.M. Woollard: The difference in salary is between the prison nurses and the agency nurses. The prison nurses believe this Government gave a commitment to pay them back pay to July 2001, and it has not kept its promise. More and more prison nurses are leaving and more and more agency nurses are moving into that area. Those agency nurses do not know the prisoners; they do not know their moods - Mr J.A. McGINTY: I can answer that very quickly. Nobody has ever argued that parity should exist between prison nurses and agency nurses. The member for Alfred Cove is the first one to put that claim forward; not even the ANF has put that claim forward. What the member is raising is a load of nonsense and it has no relevance. The figures raised by the member for Murdoch about the back pay and the payments for agency nurses do not sound right, but I will obtain more information. I make this simple request: if members are interested in answers to detailed questions, such as the amount of money that has been spent in a particular area, they should provide some notice and I will happily provide the information.
Mr J.A. McGINTY: I will answer this question first. I am happy to take interjections. I am told that an offer has never been made to the ANF to backdate this particular pay rise into the time of the previous agreement. Furthermore, that will not happen. So, if I have a simple message for the nurses, it is this: they have achieved parity; they have been offered back pay to 1 June this year, which is some five-and-a-half months; and under no circumstances will we agree to pay back-pay for a further 12 months into last year. Today I spoke to a few nurses who were here and I explained the position to them. I said that I had never seen evidence of an offer to prison nurses to backdate the payments to 15 or 18 months ago, and such a situation would be contrary to my instructions from the Department of Justice. Mr M.F. Board: Have you seen the circular to which I have referred? Mr J.A. McGINTY: There is a general administrative circular dealing with another issue - Dr J.M. Woollard interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: I will make this point and then I will come back to the point raised by the member for Alfred Cove. Today when I was talking to these nurses, they said that historically there had been times when prison nurses were paid more than hospital nurses, and I said that was right. When they entered into an agreement, they signed it and they should honour that agreement. They are now trying to renegotiate an agreement that was signed off by the ANF and get an increase in pay for a period going back 18 months. We will not agree to it. We will honour the EBA that we signed - I think the Opposition signed it - covering that period. The new rates - the parity - will be backdated to the date on which that agreement expired. As part of my very significant experience in negotiating wages and working conditions on behalf of union members in this State, I am not familiar with the concept of allowing retrospectivity back into the life of a pre-existing agreement. I am not saying it has never happened, but I do not know that it has ever happened. Does any member have any knowledge of that happening? Never! We will not do it; it is not something that we have ever offered to the nurses. The best thing I can suggest to the prison nurses is that they have got parity and they have got a significant amount of back pay; therefore, they should get back to work and do their job, and they should do that as soon as possible because their actions are serving no purpose. Mr M.F. Board: Someone should have been honest with them and up-front about their position. It has taken a long time for them to be told. They were told, with circulars in hand, that they would receive parity from July 2001, because they came within the ANF and they were covered under those arrangements and it would be only a matter of time before the Government brought all the EBAs together. That is their understanding, and that is why they are so passionate about the matter. Mr J.A. McGINTY: From time to time people have understandings; sometimes they are not correct. I watched very closely as the Minister for Health resolved the nurses pay rise issue in the government hospital area. It was always my understanding from being very close to those negotiations that they would flow on to the prison nurses when their agreement expired, which was on 1 June this year. Whether other people have a different understanding, a misunderstanding or whatever, I cannot make it any clearer than to say that two of the three issues that this strike is allegedly about have been resolved. We have not agreed to that 12-month period of back pay going back into the life of the previous agreement, and we will not be paying back-pay for that other period. There is no point in them - Mr M.F. Board: Will you address the prison officer issue? Allegations have been made that prison officers are dispensing and administering drugs within the prison system. Mr J.A. McGINTY: Had the member given me some notice of that question, I would have been able to give a very straightforward answer. Mr M.F. Board: Are you prepared to tell us what the situation is? Mr J.A. McGINTY: Absolutely. I am happy to investigate that matter. Obviously we have prisoners who enjoy worse health than people in the general community; they need to get their medications. If nurses are not doing what they are paid and employed to do in the hospitals, we will not deny prisoners their prescribed medications. Mr M.F. Board interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: I am not sure that they are. The member for Murdoch has made an allegation. I do not think that is the case. If people have walked off the job, we will not deny prisoners lifesaving medication. Dr J.M. Woollard: The difference in salary is between the prison nurses and the agency nurses. The prison nurses believe this Government gave a commitment to pay them back pay to July 2001, and it has not kept its promise. More and more prison nurses are leaving and more and more agency nurses are moving into that area. Those agency nurses do not know the prisoners; they do not know their moods - Mr J.A. McGINTY: I can answer that very quickly. Nobody has ever argued that parity should exist between prison nurses and agency nurses. The member for Alfred Cove is the first one to put that claim forward; not even the ANF has put that claim forward. What the member is raising is a load of nonsense and it has no relevance. The figures raised by the member for Murdoch about the back pay and the payments for agency nurses do not sound right, but I will obtain more information. I make this simple request: if members are interested in answers to detailed questions, such as the amount of money that has been spent in a particular area, they should provide some notice and I will happily provide the information.
Today I spoke to a few nurses who were here and I explained the position to them. I said that I had never seen evidence of an offer to prison nurses to backdate the payments to 15 or 18 months ago, and such a situation would be contrary to my instructions from the Department of Justice. Mr M.F. Board: Have you seen the circular to which I have referred? Mr J.A. McGINTY: There is a general administrative circular dealing with another issue - Dr J.M. Woollard interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: I will make this point and then I will come back to the point raised by the member for Alfred Cove. Today when I was talking to these nurses, they said that historically there had been times when prison nurses were paid more than hospital nurses, and I said that was right. When they entered into an agreement, they signed it and they should honour that agreement. They are now trying to renegotiate an agreement that was signed off by the ANF and get an increase in pay for a period going back 18 months. We will not agree to it. We will honour the EBA that we signed - I think the Opposition signed it - covering that period. The new rates - the parity - will be backdated to the date on which that agreement expired. As part of my very significant experience in negotiating wages and working conditions on behalf of union members in this State, I am not familiar with the concept of allowing retrospectivity back into the life of a pre-existing agreement. I am not saying it has never happened, but I do not know that it has ever happened. Does any member have any knowledge of that happening? Never! We will not do it; it is not something that we have ever offered to the nurses. The best thing I can suggest to the prison nurses is that they have got parity and they have got a significant amount of back pay; therefore, they should get back to work and do their job, and they should do that as soon as possible because their actions are serving no purpose. Mr M.F. Board: Someone should have been honest with them and up-front about their position. It has taken a long time for them to be told. They were told, with circulars in hand, that they would receive parity from July 2001, because they came within the ANF and they were covered under those arrangements and it would be only a matter of time before the Government brought all the EBAs together. That is their understanding, and that is why they are so passionate about the matter. Mr J.A. McGINTY: From time to time people have understandings; sometimes they are not correct. I watched very closely as the Minister for Health resolved the nurses pay rise issue in the government hospital area. It was always my understanding from being very close to those negotiations that they would flow on to the prison nurses when their agreement expired, which was on 1 June this year. Whether other people have a different understanding, a misunderstanding or whatever, I cannot make it any clearer than to say that two of the three issues that this strike is allegedly about have been resolved. We have not agreed to that 12-month period of back pay going back into the life of the previous agreement, and we will not be paying back-pay for that other period. There is no point in them - Mr M.F. Board: Will you address the prison officer issue? Allegations have been made that prison officers are dispensing and administering drugs within the prison system. Mr J.A. McGINTY: Had the member given me some notice of that question, I would have been able to give a very straightforward answer. Mr M.F. Board: Are you prepared to tell us what the situation is? Mr J.A. McGINTY: Absolutely. I am happy to investigate that matter. Obviously we have prisoners who enjoy worse health than people in the general community; they need to get their medications. If nurses are not doing what they are paid and employed to do in the hospitals, we will not deny prisoners their prescribed medications. Mr M.F. Board interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: I am not sure that they are. The member for Murdoch has made an allegation. I do not think that is the case. If people have walked off the job, we will not deny prisoners lifesaving medication. Dr J.M. Woollard: The difference in salary is between the prison nurses and the agency nurses. The prison nurses believe this Government gave a commitment to pay them back pay to July 2001, and it has not kept its promise. More and more prison nurses are leaving and more and more agency nurses are moving into that area. Those agency nurses do not know the prisoners; they do not know their moods - Mr J.A. McGINTY: I can answer that very quickly. Nobody has ever argued that parity should exist between prison nurses and agency nurses. The member for Alfred Cove is the first one to put that claim forward; not even the ANF has put that claim forward. What the member is raising is a load of nonsense and it has no relevance. The figures raised by the member for Murdoch about the back pay and the payments for agency nurses do not sound right, but I will obtain more information. I make this simple request: if members are interested in answers to detailed questions, such as the amount of money that has been spent in a particular area, they should provide some notice and I will happily provide the information.
Mr M.F. Board: Have you seen the circular to which I have referred? Mr J.A. McGINTY: There is a general administrative circular dealing with another issue - Dr J.M. Woollard interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: I will make this point and then I will come back to the point raised by the member for Alfred Cove. Today when I was talking to these nurses, they said that historically there had been times when prison nurses were paid more than hospital nurses, and I said that was right. When they entered into an agreement, they signed it and they should honour that agreement. They are now trying to renegotiate an agreement that was signed off by the ANF and get an increase in pay for a period going back 18 months. We will not agree to it. We will honour the EBA that we signed - I think the Opposition signed it - covering that period. The new rates - the parity - will be backdated to the date on which that agreement expired. As part of my very significant experience in negotiating wages and working conditions on behalf of union members in this State, I am not familiar with the concept of allowing retrospectivity back into the life of a pre-existing agreement. I am not saying it has never happened, but I do not know that it has ever happened. Does any member have any knowledge of that happening? Never! We will not do it; it is not something that we have ever offered to the nurses. The best thing I can suggest to the prison nurses is that they have got parity and they have got a significant amount of back pay; therefore, they should get back to work and do their job, and they should do that as soon as possible because their actions are serving no purpose. Mr M.F. Board: Someone should have been honest with them and up-front about their position. It has taken a long time for them to be told. They were told, with circulars in hand, that they would receive parity from July 2001, because they came within the ANF and they were covered under those arrangements and it would be only a matter of time before the Government brought all the EBAs together. That is their understanding, and that is why they are so passionate about the matter. Mr J.A. McGINTY: From time to time people have understandings; sometimes they are not correct. I watched very closely as the Minister for Health resolved the nurses pay rise issue in the government hospital area. It was always my understanding from being very close to those negotiations that they would flow on to the prison nurses when their agreement expired, which was on 1 June this year. Whether other people have a different understanding, a misunderstanding or whatever, I cannot make it any clearer than to say that two of the three issues that this strike is allegedly about have been resolved. We have not agreed to that 12-month period of back pay going back into the life of the previous agreement, and we will not be paying back-pay for that other period. There is no point in them - Mr M.F. Board: Will you address the prison officer issue? Allegations have been made that prison officers are dispensing and administering drugs within the prison system. Mr J.A. McGINTY: Had the member given me some notice of that question, I would have been able to give a very straightforward answer. Mr M.F. Board: Are you prepared to tell us what the situation is? Mr J.A. McGINTY: Absolutely. I am happy to investigate that matter. Obviously we have prisoners who enjoy worse health than people in the general community; they need to get their medications. If nurses are not doing what they are paid and employed to do in the hospitals, we will not deny prisoners their prescribed medications. Mr M.F. Board interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: I am not sure that they are. The member for Murdoch has made an allegation. I do not think that is the case. If people have walked off the job, we will not deny prisoners lifesaving medication. Dr J.M. Woollard: The difference in salary is between the prison nurses and the agency nurses. The prison nurses believe this Government gave a commitment to pay them back pay to July 2001, and it has not kept its promise. More and more prison nurses are leaving and more and more agency nurses are moving into that area. Those agency nurses do not know the prisoners; they do not know their moods - Mr J.A. McGINTY: I can answer that very quickly. Nobody has ever argued that parity should exist between prison nurses and agency nurses. The member for Alfred Cove is the first one to put that claim forward; not even the ANF has put that claim forward. What the member is raising is a load of nonsense and it has no relevance. The figures raised by the member for Murdoch about the back pay and the payments for agency nurses do not sound right, but I will obtain more information. I make this simple request: if members are interested in answers to detailed questions, such as the amount of money that has been spent in a particular area, they should provide some notice and I will happily provide the information.
Mr J.A. McGINTY: There is a general administrative circular dealing with another issue - Dr J.M. Woollard interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: I will make this point and then I will come back to the point raised by the member for Alfred Cove. Today when I was talking to these nurses, they said that historically there had been times when prison nurses were paid more than hospital nurses, and I said that was right. When they entered into an agreement, they signed it and they should honour that agreement. They are now trying to renegotiate an agreement that was signed off by the ANF and get an increase in pay for a period going back 18 months. We will not agree to it. We will honour the EBA that we signed - I think the Opposition signed it - covering that period. The new rates - the parity - will be backdated to the date on which that agreement expired. As part of my very significant experience in negotiating wages and working conditions on behalf of union members in this State, I am not familiar with the concept of allowing retrospectivity back into the life of a pre-existing agreement. I am not saying it has never happened, but I do not know that it has ever happened. Does any member have any knowledge of that happening? Never! We will not do it; it is not something that we have ever offered to the nurses. The best thing I can suggest to the prison nurses is that they have got parity and they have got a significant amount of back pay; therefore, they should get back to work and do their job, and they should do that as soon as possible because their actions are serving no purpose. Mr M.F. Board: Someone should have been honest with them and up-front about their position. It has taken a long time for them to be told. They were told, with circulars in hand, that they would receive parity from July 2001, because they came within the ANF and they were covered under those arrangements and it would be only a matter of time before the Government brought all the EBAs together. That is their understanding, and that is why they are so passionate about the matter. Mr J.A. McGINTY: From time to time people have understandings; sometimes they are not correct. I watched very closely as the Minister for Health resolved the nurses pay rise issue in the government hospital area. It was always my understanding from being very close to those negotiations that they would flow on to the prison nurses when their agreement expired, which was on 1 June this year. Whether other people have a different understanding, a misunderstanding or whatever, I cannot make it any clearer than to say that two of the three issues that this strike is allegedly about have been resolved. We have not agreed to that 12-month period of back pay going back into the life of the previous agreement, and we will not be paying back-pay for that other period. There is no point in them - Mr M.F. Board: Will you address the prison officer issue? Allegations have been made that prison officers are dispensing and administering drugs within the prison system. Mr J.A. McGINTY: Had the member given me some notice of that question, I would have been able to give a very straightforward answer. Mr M.F. Board: Are you prepared to tell us what the situation is? Mr J.A. McGINTY: Absolutely. I am happy to investigate that matter. Obviously we have prisoners who enjoy worse health than people in the general community; they need to get their medications. If nurses are not doing what they are paid and employed to do in the hospitals, we will not deny prisoners their prescribed medications. Mr M.F. Board interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: I am not sure that they are. The member for Murdoch has made an allegation. I do not think that is the case. If people have walked off the job, we will not deny prisoners lifesaving medication. Dr J.M. Woollard: The difference in salary is between the prison nurses and the agency nurses. The prison nurses believe this Government gave a commitment to pay them back pay to July 2001, and it has not kept its promise. More and more prison nurses are leaving and more and more agency nurses are moving into that area. Those agency nurses do not know the prisoners; they do not know their moods - Mr J.A. McGINTY: I can answer that very quickly. Nobody has ever argued that parity should exist between prison nurses and agency nurses. The member for Alfred Cove is the first one to put that claim forward; not even the ANF has put that claim forward. What the member is raising is a load of nonsense and it has no relevance. The figures raised by the member for Murdoch about the back pay and the payments for agency nurses do not sound right, but I will obtain more information. I make this simple request: if members are interested in answers to detailed questions, such as the amount of money that has been spent in a particular area, they should provide some notice and I will happily provide the information.
Dr J.M. Woollard interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: I will make this point and then I will come back to the point raised by the member for Alfred Cove. Today when I was talking to these nurses, they said that historically there had been times when prison nurses were paid more than hospital nurses, and I said that was right. When they entered into an agreement, they signed it and they should honour that agreement. They are now trying to renegotiate an agreement that was signed off by the ANF and get an increase in pay for a period going back 18 months. We will not agree to it. We will honour the EBA that we signed - I think the Opposition signed it - covering that period. The new rates - the parity - will be backdated to the date on which that agreement expired. As part of my very significant experience in negotiating wages and working conditions on behalf of union members in this State, I am not familiar with the concept of allowing retrospectivity back into the life of a pre-existing agreement. I am not saying it has never happened, but I do not know that it has ever happened. Does any member have any knowledge of that happening? Never! We will not do it; it is not something that we have ever offered to the nurses. The best thing I can suggest to the prison nurses is that they have got parity and they have got a significant amount of back pay; therefore, they should get back to work and do their job, and they should do that as soon as possible because their actions are serving no purpose. Mr M.F. Board: Someone should have been honest with them and up-front about their position. It has taken a long time for them to be told. They were told, with circulars in hand, that they would receive parity from July 2001, because they came within the ANF and they were covered under those arrangements and it would be only a matter of time before the Government brought all the EBAs together. That is their understanding, and that is why they are so passionate about the matter. Mr J.A. McGINTY: From time to time people have understandings; sometimes they are not correct. I watched very closely as the Minister for Health resolved the nurses pay rise issue in the government hospital area. It was always my understanding from being very close to those negotiations that they would flow on to the prison nurses when their agreement expired, which was on 1 June this year. Whether other people have a different understanding, a misunderstanding or whatever, I cannot make it any clearer than to say that two of the three issues that this strike is allegedly about have been resolved. We have not agreed to that 12-month period of back pay going back into the life of the previous agreement, and we will not be paying back-pay for that other period. There is no point in them - Mr M.F. Board: Will you address the prison officer issue? Allegations have been made that prison officers are dispensing and administering drugs within the prison system. Mr J.A. McGINTY: Had the member given me some notice of that question, I would have been able to give a very straightforward answer. Mr M.F. Board: Are you prepared to tell us what the situation is? Mr J.A. McGINTY: Absolutely. I am happy to investigate that matter. Obviously we have prisoners who enjoy worse health than people in the general community; they need to get their medications. If nurses are not doing what they are paid and employed to do in the hospitals, we will not deny prisoners their prescribed medications. Mr M.F. Board interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: I am not sure that they are. The member for Murdoch has made an allegation. I do not think that is the case. If people have walked off the job, we will not deny prisoners lifesaving medication. Dr J.M. Woollard: The difference in salary is between the prison nurses and the agency nurses. The prison nurses believe this Government gave a commitment to pay them back pay to July 2001, and it has not kept its promise. More and more prison nurses are leaving and more and more agency nurses are moving into that area. Those agency nurses do not know the prisoners; they do not know their moods - Mr J.A. McGINTY: I can answer that very quickly. Nobody has ever argued that parity should exist between prison nurses and agency nurses. The member for Alfred Cove is the first one to put that claim forward; not even the ANF has put that claim forward. What the member is raising is a load of nonsense and it has no relevance. The figures raised by the member for Murdoch about the back pay and the payments for agency nurses do not sound right, but I will obtain more information. I make this simple request: if members are interested in answers to detailed questions, such as the amount of money that has been spent in a particular area, they should provide some notice and I will happily provide the information.
Mr J.A. McGINTY: I will make this point and then I will come back to the point raised by the member for Alfred Cove. Today when I was talking to these nurses, they said that historically there had been times when prison nurses were paid more than hospital nurses, and I said that was right. When they entered into an agreement, they signed it and they should honour that agreement. They are now trying to renegotiate an agreement that was signed off by the ANF and get an increase in pay for a period going back 18 months. We will not agree to it. We will honour the EBA that we signed - I think the Opposition signed it - covering that period. The new rates - the parity - will be backdated to the date on which that agreement expired. As part of my very significant experience in negotiating wages and working conditions on behalf of union members in this State, I am not familiar with the concept of allowing retrospectivity back into the life of a pre-existing agreement. I am not saying it has never happened, but I do not know that it has ever happened. Does any member have any knowledge of that happening? Never! We will not do it; it is not something that we have ever offered to the nurses. The best thing I can suggest to the prison nurses is that they have got parity and they have got a significant amount of back pay; therefore, they should get back to work and do their job, and they should do that as soon as possible because their actions are serving no purpose. Mr M.F. Board: Someone should have been honest with them and up-front about their position. It has taken a long time for them to be told. They were told, with circulars in hand, that they would receive parity from July 2001, because they came within the ANF and they were covered under those arrangements and it would be only a matter of time before the Government brought all the EBAs together. That is their understanding, and that is why they are so passionate about the matter. Mr J.A. McGINTY: From time to time people have understandings; sometimes they are not correct. I watched very closely as the Minister for Health resolved the nurses pay rise issue in the government hospital area. It was always my understanding from being very close to those negotiations that they would flow on to the prison nurses when their agreement expired, which was on 1 June this year. Whether other people have a different understanding, a misunderstanding or whatever, I cannot make it any clearer than to say that two of the three issues that this strike is allegedly about have been resolved. We have not agreed to that 12-month period of back pay going back into the life of the previous agreement, and we will not be paying back-pay for that other period. There is no point in them - Mr M.F. Board: Will you address the prison officer issue? Allegations have been made that prison officers are dispensing and administering drugs within the prison system. Mr J.A. McGINTY: Had the member given me some notice of that question, I would have been able to give a very straightforward answer. Mr M.F. Board: Are you prepared to tell us what the situation is? Mr J.A. McGINTY: Absolutely. I am happy to investigate that matter. Obviously we have prisoners who enjoy worse health than people in the general community; they need to get their medications. If nurses are not doing what they are paid and employed to do in the hospitals, we will not deny prisoners their prescribed medications. Mr M.F. Board interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: I am not sure that they are. The member for Murdoch has made an allegation. I do not think that is the case. If people have walked off the job, we will not deny prisoners lifesaving medication. Dr J.M. Woollard: The difference in salary is between the prison nurses and the agency nurses. The prison nurses believe this Government gave a commitment to pay them back pay to July 2001, and it has not kept its promise. More and more prison nurses are leaving and more and more agency nurses are moving into that area. Those agency nurses do not know the prisoners; they do not know their moods - Mr J.A. McGINTY: I can answer that very quickly. Nobody has ever argued that parity should exist between prison nurses and agency nurses. The member for Alfred Cove is the first one to put that claim forward; not even the ANF has put that claim forward. What the member is raising is a load of nonsense and it has no relevance. The figures raised by the member for Murdoch about the back pay and the payments for agency nurses do not sound right, but I will obtain more information. I make this simple request: if members are interested in answers to detailed questions, such as the amount of money that has been spent in a particular area, they should provide some notice and I will happily provide the information.
Mr M.F. Board: Someone should have been honest with them and up-front about their position. It has taken a long time for them to be told. They were told, with circulars in hand, that they would receive parity from July 2001, because they came within the ANF and they were covered under those arrangements and it would be only a matter of time before the Government brought all the EBAs together. That is their understanding, and that is why they are so passionate about the matter. Mr J.A. McGINTY: From time to time people have understandings; sometimes they are not correct. I watched very closely as the Minister for Health resolved the nurses pay rise issue in the government hospital area. It was always my understanding from being very close to those negotiations that they would flow on to the prison nurses when their agreement expired, which was on 1 June this year. Whether other people have a different understanding, a misunderstanding or whatever, I cannot make it any clearer than to say that two of the three issues that this strike is allegedly about have been resolved. We have not agreed to that 12-month period of back pay going back into the life of the previous agreement, and we will not be paying back-pay for that other period. There is no point in them - Mr M.F. Board: Will you address the prison officer issue? Allegations have been made that prison officers are dispensing and administering drugs within the prison system. Mr J.A. McGINTY: Had the member given me some notice of that question, I would have been able to give a very straightforward answer. Mr M.F. Board: Are you prepared to tell us what the situation is? Mr J.A. McGINTY: Absolutely. I am happy to investigate that matter. Obviously we have prisoners who enjoy worse health than people in the general community; they need to get their medications. If nurses are not doing what they are paid and employed to do in the hospitals, we will not deny prisoners their prescribed medications. Mr M.F. Board interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: I am not sure that they are. The member for Murdoch has made an allegation. I do not think that is the case. If people have walked off the job, we will not deny prisoners lifesaving medication. Dr J.M. Woollard: The difference in salary is between the prison nurses and the agency nurses. The prison nurses believe this Government gave a commitment to pay them back pay to July 2001, and it has not kept its promise. More and more prison nurses are leaving and more and more agency nurses are moving into that area. Those agency nurses do not know the prisoners; they do not know their moods - Mr J.A. McGINTY: I can answer that very quickly. Nobody has ever argued that parity should exist between prison nurses and agency nurses. The member for Alfred Cove is the first one to put that claim forward; not even the ANF has put that claim forward. What the member is raising is a load of nonsense and it has no relevance. The figures raised by the member for Murdoch about the back pay and the payments for agency nurses do not sound right, but I will obtain more information. I make this simple request: if members are interested in answers to detailed questions, such as the amount of money that has been spent in a particular area, they should provide some notice and I will happily provide the information.
Mr J.A. McGINTY: From time to time people have understandings; sometimes they are not correct. I watched very closely as the Minister for Health resolved the nurses pay rise issue in the government hospital area. It was always my understanding from being very close to those negotiations that they would flow on to the prison nurses when their agreement expired, which was on 1 June this year. Whether other people have a different understanding, a misunderstanding or whatever, I cannot make it any clearer than to say that two of the three issues that this strike is allegedly about have been resolved. We have not agreed to that 12-month period of back pay going back into the life of the previous agreement, and we will not be paying back-pay for that other period. There is no point in them - Mr M.F. Board: Will you address the prison officer issue? Allegations have been made that prison officers are dispensing and administering drugs within the prison system. Mr J.A. McGINTY: Had the member given me some notice of that question, I would have been able to give a very straightforward answer. Mr M.F. Board: Are you prepared to tell us what the situation is? Mr J.A. McGINTY: Absolutely. I am happy to investigate that matter. Obviously we have prisoners who enjoy worse health than people in the general community; they need to get their medications. If nurses are not doing what they are paid and employed to do in the hospitals, we will not deny prisoners their prescribed medications. Mr M.F. Board interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: I am not sure that they are. The member for Murdoch has made an allegation. I do not think that is the case. If people have walked off the job, we will not deny prisoners lifesaving medication. Dr J.M. Woollard: The difference in salary is between the prison nurses and the agency nurses. The prison nurses believe this Government gave a commitment to pay them back pay to July 2001, and it has not kept its promise. More and more prison nurses are leaving and more and more agency nurses are moving into that area. Those agency nurses do not know the prisoners; they do not know their moods - Mr J.A. McGINTY: I can answer that very quickly. Nobody has ever argued that parity should exist between prison nurses and agency nurses. The member for Alfred Cove is the first one to put that claim forward; not even the ANF has put that claim forward. What the member is raising is a load of nonsense and it has no relevance. The figures raised by the member for Murdoch about the back pay and the payments for agency nurses do not sound right, but I will obtain more information. I make this simple request: if members are interested in answers to detailed questions, such as the amount of money that has been spent in a particular area, they should provide some notice and I will happily provide the information.
Mr M.F. Board: Will you address the prison officer issue? Allegations have been made that prison officers are dispensing and administering drugs within the prison system. Mr J.A. McGINTY: Had the member given me some notice of that question, I would have been able to give a very straightforward answer. Mr M.F. Board: Are you prepared to tell us what the situation is? Mr J.A. McGINTY: Absolutely. I am happy to investigate that matter. Obviously we have prisoners who enjoy worse health than people in the general community; they need to get their medications. If nurses are not doing what they are paid and employed to do in the hospitals, we will not deny prisoners their prescribed medications. Mr M.F. Board interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: I am not sure that they are. The member for Murdoch has made an allegation. I do not think that is the case. If people have walked off the job, we will not deny prisoners lifesaving medication. Dr J.M. Woollard: The difference in salary is between the prison nurses and the agency nurses. The prison nurses believe this Government gave a commitment to pay them back pay to July 2001, and it has not kept its promise. More and more prison nurses are leaving and more and more agency nurses are moving into that area. Those agency nurses do not know the prisoners; they do not know their moods - Mr J.A. McGINTY: I can answer that very quickly. Nobody has ever argued that parity should exist between prison nurses and agency nurses. The member for Alfred Cove is the first one to put that claim forward; not even the ANF has put that claim forward. What the member is raising is a load of nonsense and it has no relevance. The figures raised by the member for Murdoch about the back pay and the payments for agency nurses do not sound right, but I will obtain more information. I make this simple request: if members are interested in answers to detailed questions, such as the amount of money that has been spent in a particular area, they should provide some notice and I will happily provide the information.
Mr J.A. McGINTY: Had the member given me some notice of that question, I would have been able to give a very straightforward answer. Mr M.F. Board: Are you prepared to tell us what the situation is? Mr J.A. McGINTY: Absolutely. I am happy to investigate that matter. Obviously we have prisoners who enjoy worse health than people in the general community; they need to get their medications. If nurses are not doing what they are paid and employed to do in the hospitals, we will not deny prisoners their prescribed medications. Mr M.F. Board interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: I am not sure that they are. The member for Murdoch has made an allegation. I do not think that is the case. If people have walked off the job, we will not deny prisoners lifesaving medication. Dr J.M. Woollard: The difference in salary is between the prison nurses and the agency nurses. The prison nurses believe this Government gave a commitment to pay them back pay to July 2001, and it has not kept its promise. More and more prison nurses are leaving and more and more agency nurses are moving into that area. Those agency nurses do not know the prisoners; they do not know their moods - Mr J.A. McGINTY: I can answer that very quickly. Nobody has ever argued that parity should exist between prison nurses and agency nurses. The member for Alfred Cove is the first one to put that claim forward; not even the ANF has put that claim forward. What the member is raising is a load of nonsense and it has no relevance. The figures raised by the member for Murdoch about the back pay and the payments for agency nurses do not sound right, but I will obtain more information. I make this simple request: if members are interested in answers to detailed questions, such as the amount of money that has been spent in a particular area, they should provide some notice and I will happily provide the information.
Mr M.F. Board: Are you prepared to tell us what the situation is? Mr J.A. McGINTY: Absolutely. I am happy to investigate that matter. Obviously we have prisoners who enjoy worse health than people in the general community; they need to get their medications. If nurses are not doing what they are paid and employed to do in the hospitals, we will not deny prisoners their prescribed medications. Mr M.F. Board interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: I am not sure that they are. The member for Murdoch has made an allegation. I do not think that is the case. If people have walked off the job, we will not deny prisoners lifesaving medication. Dr J.M. Woollard: The difference in salary is between the prison nurses and the agency nurses. The prison nurses believe this Government gave a commitment to pay them back pay to July 2001, and it has not kept its promise. More and more prison nurses are leaving and more and more agency nurses are moving into that area. Those agency nurses do not know the prisoners; they do not know their moods - Mr J.A. McGINTY: I can answer that very quickly. Nobody has ever argued that parity should exist between prison nurses and agency nurses. The member for Alfred Cove is the first one to put that claim forward; not even the ANF has put that claim forward. What the member is raising is a load of nonsense and it has no relevance. The figures raised by the member for Murdoch about the back pay and the payments for agency nurses do not sound right, but I will obtain more information. I make this simple request: if members are interested in answers to detailed questions, such as the amount of money that has been spent in a particular area, they should provide some notice and I will happily provide the information.
Mr J.A. McGINTY: Absolutely. I am happy to investigate that matter. Obviously we have prisoners who enjoy worse health than people in the general community; they need to get their medications. If nurses are not doing what they are paid and employed to do in the hospitals, we will not deny prisoners their prescribed medications. Mr M.F. Board interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: I am not sure that they are. The member for Murdoch has made an allegation. I do not think that is the case. If people have walked off the job, we will not deny prisoners lifesaving medication. Dr J.M. Woollard: The difference in salary is between the prison nurses and the agency nurses. The prison nurses believe this Government gave a commitment to pay them back pay to July 2001, and it has not kept its promise. More and more prison nurses are leaving and more and more agency nurses are moving into that area. Those agency nurses do not know the prisoners; they do not know their moods - Mr J.A. McGINTY: I can answer that very quickly. Nobody has ever argued that parity should exist between prison nurses and agency nurses. The member for Alfred Cove is the first one to put that claim forward; not even the ANF has put that claim forward. What the member is raising is a load of nonsense and it has no relevance. The figures raised by the member for Murdoch about the back pay and the payments for agency nurses do not sound right, but I will obtain more information. I make this simple request: if members are interested in answers to detailed questions, such as the amount of money that has been spent in a particular area, they should provide some notice and I will happily provide the information.
Mr M.F. Board interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: I am not sure that they are. The member for Murdoch has made an allegation. I do not think that is the case. If people have walked off the job, we will not deny prisoners lifesaving medication. Dr J.M. Woollard: The difference in salary is between the prison nurses and the agency nurses. The prison nurses believe this Government gave a commitment to pay them back pay to July 2001, and it has not kept its promise. More and more prison nurses are leaving and more and more agency nurses are moving into that area. Those agency nurses do not know the prisoners; they do not know their moods - Mr J.A. McGINTY: I can answer that very quickly. Nobody has ever argued that parity should exist between prison nurses and agency nurses. The member for Alfred Cove is the first one to put that claim forward; not even the ANF has put that claim forward. What the member is raising is a load of nonsense and it has no relevance. The figures raised by the member for Murdoch about the back pay and the payments for agency nurses do not sound right, but I will obtain more information. I make this simple request: if members are interested in answers to detailed questions, such as the amount of money that has been spent in a particular area, they should provide some notice and I will happily provide the information.
Mr J.A. McGINTY: I am not sure that they are. The member for Murdoch has made an allegation. I do not think that is the case. If people have walked off the job, we will not deny prisoners lifesaving medication. Dr J.M. Woollard: The difference in salary is between the prison nurses and the agency nurses. The prison nurses believe this Government gave a commitment to pay them back pay to July 2001, and it has not kept its promise. More and more prison nurses are leaving and more and more agency nurses are moving into that area. Those agency nurses do not know the prisoners; they do not know their moods - Mr J.A. McGINTY: I can answer that very quickly. Nobody has ever argued that parity should exist between prison nurses and agency nurses. The member for Alfred Cove is the first one to put that claim forward; not even the ANF has put that claim forward. What the member is raising is a load of nonsense and it has no relevance. The figures raised by the member for Murdoch about the back pay and the payments for agency nurses do not sound right, but I will obtain more information. I make this simple request: if members are interested in answers to detailed questions, such as the amount of money that has been spent in a particular area, they should provide some notice and I will happily provide the information.
Dr J.M. Woollard: The difference in salary is between the prison nurses and the agency nurses. The prison nurses believe this Government gave a commitment to pay them back pay to July 2001, and it has not kept its promise. More and more prison nurses are leaving and more and more agency nurses are moving into that area. Those agency nurses do not know the prisoners; they do not know their moods - Mr J.A. McGINTY: I can answer that very quickly. Nobody has ever argued that parity should exist between prison nurses and agency nurses. The member for Alfred Cove is the first one to put that claim forward; not even the ANF has put that claim forward. What the member is raising is a load of nonsense and it has no relevance. The figures raised by the member for Murdoch about the back pay and the payments for agency nurses do not sound right, but I will obtain more information. I make this simple request: if members are interested in answers to detailed questions, such as the amount of money that has been spent in a particular area, they should provide some notice and I will happily provide the information.
Mr J.A. McGINTY: I can answer that very quickly. Nobody has ever argued that parity should exist between prison nurses and agency nurses. The member for Alfred Cove is the first one to put that claim forward; not even the ANF has put that claim forward. What the member is raising is a load of nonsense and it has no relevance. The figures raised by the member for Murdoch about the back pay and the payments for agency nurses do not sound right, but I will obtain more information. I make this simple request: if members are interested in answers to detailed questions, such as the amount of money that has been spent in a particular area, they should provide some notice and I will happily provide the information.
The figures raised by the member for Murdoch about the back pay and the payments for agency nurses do not sound right, but I will obtain more information. I make this simple request: if members are interested in answers to detailed questions, such as the amount of money that has been spent in a particular area, they should provide some notice and I will happily provide the information.
(1) Why is the minister refusing to honour the Government’s commitment, as outlined in circular to departments and authorities No 26 of 2001, to back pay prison nurses to 1 July 2001? (2) Can the minister confirm that $600 000 is the amount required for the back pay, and that amount has been almost spent on the employment of agency nurses during the strike? (3) Can the minister also confirm that some prison officers are currently dispensing and administering drugs to prisoners, including schedule 8 drugs? Mr J.A. McGINTY replied: (1)-(3) I am pleased to have the opportunity to fully explain the situation. It was a bit difficult yesterday because I was a bit like a yoyo, as you, Mr Speaker, intervened during the course of my answer. The offer has been made to the Western Australian branch of the Australian Nursing Federation for wage parity between prison nurses and hospital nurses. That is agreed. Today I noticed a sign over at Solidarity Park that read, “Nurses want parity”. They have got it; that is not in doubt any more. I have also instructed the department, because we have not been able to sign - Dr J.M. Woollard interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: Will the member listen. What do they want? Dr J.M. Woollard: They are paid less. Mr J.A. McGINTY: No, they are not. The member should clean the wax out of her ears and have a little listen. We have agreed to their wage claim that will give them parity, full stop. There is no longer any dispute about the wage rates between the ANF and the Government. Prison nurses will be paid the same as hospital nurses; parity has been achieved. Mr M.F. Board: Parity from July? Mr J.A. McGINTY: I am coming to the question of retrospectivity. That issue has been resolved. I cannot think of any more ways to say the same thing, but there is no dispute about parity; equally, there is no dispute about backdating this agreement. Mr M.F. Board: It does not look that way. Mr J.A. McGINTY: I will explain it. There is no dispute. We have agreed to pay back-pay to 1 June this year, the date on which the previous agreement covering the enterprise bargaining agreement for nurses working in prisons expired. We have gone back to the starting date of the agreement and have said that it will apply from that date. The first issue of parity has been achieved; the second issue is back pay, and we have agreed to date the offer from the expiry of the old agreement. The nub of the disagreement is for the 12 months going back through most of 2001 and into this year. Dr J.M. Woollard interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: I will answer this question first. I am happy to take interjections. I am told that an offer has never been made to the ANF to backdate this particular pay rise into the time of the previous agreement. Furthermore, that will not happen. So, if I have a simple message for the nurses, it is this: they have achieved parity; they have been offered back pay to 1 June this year, which is some five-and-a-half months; and under no circumstances will we agree to pay back-pay for a further 12 months into last year. Today I spoke to a few nurses who were here and I explained the position to them. I said that I had never seen evidence of an offer to prison nurses to backdate the payments to 15 or 18 months ago, and such a situation would be contrary to my instructions from the Department of Justice. Mr M.F. Board: Have you seen the circular to which I have referred? Mr J.A. McGINTY: There is a general administrative circular dealing with another issue - Dr J.M. Woollard interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: I will make this point and then I will come back to the point raised by the member for Alfred Cove. Today when I was talking to these nurses, they said that historically there had been times when prison nurses were paid more than hospital nurses, and I said that was right. When they entered into an agreement, they signed it and they should honour that agreement. They are now trying to renegotiate an agreement that was signed off by the ANF and get an increase in pay for a period going back 18 months. We will not agree to it. We will honour the EBA that we signed - I think the Opposition signed it - covering that period. The new rates - the parity - will be backdated to the date on which that agreement expired. As part of my very significant experience in negotiating wages and working conditions on behalf of union members in this State, I am not familiar with the concept of allowing retrospectivity back into the life of a pre-existing agreement. I am not saying it has never happened, but I do not know that it has ever happened. Does any member have any knowledge of that happening? Never! We will not do it; it is not something that we have ever offered to the nurses. The best thing I can suggest to the prison nurses is that they have got parity and they have got a significant amount of back pay; therefore, they should get back to work and do their job, and they should do that as soon as possible because their actions are serving no purpose. Mr M.F. Board: Someone should have been honest with them and up-front about their position. It has taken a long time for them to be told. They were told, with circulars in hand, that they would receive parity from July 2001, because they came within the ANF and they were covered under those arrangements and it would be only a matter of time before the Government brought all the EBAs together. That is their understanding, and that is why they are so passionate about the matter. Mr J.A. McGINTY: From time to time people have understandings; sometimes they are not correct. I watched very closely as the Minister for Health resolved the nurses pay rise issue in the government hospital area. It was always my understanding from being very close to those negotiations that they would flow on to the prison nurses when their agreement expired, which was on 1 June this year. Whether other people have a different understanding, a misunderstanding or whatever, I cannot make it any clearer than to say that two of the three issues that this strike is allegedly about have been resolved. We have not agreed to that 12-month period of back pay going back into the life of the previous agreement, and we will not be paying back-pay for that other period. There is no point in them - Mr M.F. Board: Will you address the prison officer issue? Allegations have been made that prison officers are dispensing and administering drugs within the prison system. Mr J.A. McGINTY: Had the member given me some notice of that question, I would have been able to give a very straightforward answer. Mr M.F. Board: Are you prepared to tell us what the situation is? Mr J.A. McGINTY: Absolutely. I am happy to investigate that matter. Obviously we have prisoners who enjoy worse health than people in the general community; they need to get their medications. If nurses are not doing what they are paid and employed to do in the hospitals, we will not deny prisoners their prescribed medications. Mr M.F. Board interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: I am not sure that they are. The member for Murdoch has made an allegation. I do not think that is the case. If people have walked off the job, we will not deny prisoners lifesaving medication. Dr J.M. Woollard: The difference in salary is between the prison nurses and the agency nurses. The prison nurses believe this Government gave a commitment to pay them back pay to July 2001, and it has not kept its promise. More and more prison nurses are leaving and more and more agency nurses are moving into that area. Those agency nurses do not know the prisoners; they do not know their moods - Mr J.A. McGINTY: I can answer that very quickly. Nobody has ever argued that parity should exist between prison nurses and agency nurses. The member for Alfred Cove is the first one to put that claim forward; not even the ANF has put that claim forward. What the member is raising is a load of nonsense and it has no relevance. The figures raised by the member for Murdoch about the back pay and the payments for agency nurses do not sound right, but I will obtain more information. I make this simple request: if members are interested in answers to detailed questions, such as the amount of money that has been spent in a particular area, they should provide some notice and I will happily provide the information.
(2) Can the minister confirm that $600 000 is the amount required for the back pay, and that amount has been almost spent on the employment of agency nurses during the strike? (3) Can the minister also confirm that some prison officers are currently dispensing and administering drugs to prisoners, including schedule 8 drugs? Mr J.A. McGINTY replied: (1)-(3) I am pleased to have the opportunity to fully explain the situation. It was a bit difficult yesterday because I was a bit like a yoyo, as you, Mr Speaker, intervened during the course of my answer. The offer has been made to the Western Australian branch of the Australian Nursing Federation for wage parity between prison nurses and hospital nurses. That is agreed. Today I noticed a sign over at Solidarity Park that read, “Nurses want parity”. They have got it; that is not in doubt any more. I have also instructed the department, because we have not been able to sign - Dr J.M. Woollard interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: Will the member listen. What do they want? Dr J.M. Woollard: They are paid less. Mr J.A. McGINTY: No, they are not. The member should clean the wax out of her ears and have a little listen. We have agreed to their wage claim that will give them parity, full stop. There is no longer any dispute about the wage rates between the ANF and the Government. Prison nurses will be paid the same as hospital nurses; parity has been achieved. Mr M.F. Board: Parity from July? Mr J.A. McGINTY: I am coming to the question of retrospectivity. That issue has been resolved. I cannot think of any more ways to say the same thing, but there is no dispute about parity; equally, there is no dispute about backdating this agreement. Mr M.F. Board: It does not look that way. Mr J.A. McGINTY: I will explain it. There is no dispute. We have agreed to pay back-pay to 1 June this year, the date on which the previous agreement covering the enterprise bargaining agreement for nurses working in prisons expired. We have gone back to the starting date of the agreement and have said that it will apply from that date. The first issue of parity has been achieved; the second issue is back pay, and we have agreed to date the offer from the expiry of the old agreement. The nub of the disagreement is for the 12 months going back through most of 2001 and into this year. Dr J.M. Woollard interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: I will answer this question first. I am happy to take interjections. I am told that an offer has never been made to the ANF to backdate this particular pay rise into the time of the previous agreement. Furthermore, that will not happen. So, if I have a simple message for the nurses, it is this: they have achieved parity; they have been offered back pay to 1 June this year, which is some five-and-a-half months; and under no circumstances will we agree to pay back-pay for a further 12 months into last year. Today I spoke to a few nurses who were here and I explained the position to them. I said that I had never seen evidence of an offer to prison nurses to backdate the payments to 15 or 18 months ago, and such a situation would be contrary to my instructions from the Department of Justice. Mr M.F. Board: Have you seen the circular to which I have referred? Mr J.A. McGINTY: There is a general administrative circular dealing with another issue - Dr J.M. Woollard interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: I will make this point and then I will come back to the point raised by the member for Alfred Cove. Today when I was talking to these nurses, they said that historically there had been times when prison nurses were paid more than hospital nurses, and I said that was right. When they entered into an agreement, they signed it and they should honour that agreement. They are now trying to renegotiate an agreement that was signed off by the ANF and get an increase in pay for a period going back 18 months. We will not agree to it. We will honour the EBA that we signed - I think the Opposition signed it - covering that period. The new rates - the parity - will be backdated to the date on which that agreement expired. As part of my very significant experience in negotiating wages and working conditions on behalf of union members in this State, I am not familiar with the concept of allowing retrospectivity back into the life of a pre-existing agreement. I am not saying it has never happened, but I do not know that it has ever happened. Does any member have any knowledge of that happening? Never! We will not do it; it is not something that we have ever offered to the nurses. The best thing I can suggest to the prison nurses is that they have got parity and they have got a significant amount of back pay; therefore, they should get back to work and do their job, and they should do that as soon as possible because their actions are serving no purpose. Mr M.F. Board: Someone should have been honest with them and up-front about their position. It has taken a long time for them to be told. They were told, with circulars in hand, that they would receive parity from July 2001, because they came within the ANF and they were covered under those arrangements and it would be only a matter of time before the Government brought all the EBAs together. That is their understanding, and that is why they are so passionate about the matter. Mr J.A. McGINTY: From time to time people have understandings; sometimes they are not correct. I watched very closely as the Minister for Health resolved the nurses pay rise issue in the government hospital area. It was always my understanding from being very close to those negotiations that they would flow on to the prison nurses when their agreement expired, which was on 1 June this year. Whether other people have a different understanding, a misunderstanding or whatever, I cannot make it any clearer than to say that two of the three issues that this strike is allegedly about have been resolved. We have not agreed to that 12-month period of back pay going back into the life of the previous agreement, and we will not be paying back-pay for that other period. There is no point in them - Mr M.F. Board: Will you address the prison officer issue? Allegations have been made that prison officers are dispensing and administering drugs within the prison system. Mr J.A. McGINTY: Had the member given me some notice of that question, I would have been able to give a very straightforward answer. Mr M.F. Board: Are you prepared to tell us what the situation is? Mr J.A. McGINTY: Absolutely. I am happy to investigate that matter. Obviously we have prisoners who enjoy worse health than people in the general community; they need to get their medications. If nurses are not doing what they are paid and employed to do in the hospitals, we will not deny prisoners their prescribed medications. Mr M.F. Board interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: I am not sure that they are. The member for Murdoch has made an allegation. I do not think that is the case. If people have walked off the job, we will not deny prisoners lifesaving medication. Dr J.M. Woollard: The difference in salary is between the prison nurses and the agency nurses. The prison nurses believe this Government gave a commitment to pay them back pay to July 2001, and it has not kept its promise. More and more prison nurses are leaving and more and more agency nurses are moving into that area. Those agency nurses do not know the prisoners; they do not know their moods - Mr J.A. McGINTY: I can answer that very quickly. Nobody has ever argued that parity should exist between prison nurses and agency nurses. The member for Alfred Cove is the first one to put that claim forward; not even the ANF has put that claim forward. What the member is raising is a load of nonsense and it has no relevance. The figures raised by the member for Murdoch about the back pay and the payments for agency nurses do not sound right, but I will obtain more information. I make this simple request: if members are interested in answers to detailed questions, such as the amount of money that has been spent in a particular area, they should provide some notice and I will happily provide the information.
(3) Can the minister also confirm that some prison officers are currently dispensing and administering drugs to prisoners, including schedule 8 drugs? Mr J.A. McGINTY replied: (1)-(3) I am pleased to have the opportunity to fully explain the situation. It was a bit difficult yesterday because I was a bit like a yoyo, as you, Mr Speaker, intervened during the course of my answer. The offer has been made to the Western Australian branch of the Australian Nursing Federation for wage parity between prison nurses and hospital nurses. That is agreed. Today I noticed a sign over at Solidarity Park that read, “Nurses want parity”. They have got it; that is not in doubt any more. I have also instructed the department, because we have not been able to sign - Dr J.M. Woollard interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: Will the member listen. What do they want? Dr J.M. Woollard: They are paid less. Mr J.A. McGINTY: No, they are not. The member should clean the wax out of her ears and have a little listen. We have agreed to their wage claim that will give them parity, full stop. There is no longer any dispute about the wage rates between the ANF and the Government. Prison nurses will be paid the same as hospital nurses; parity has been achieved. Mr M.F. Board: Parity from July? Mr J.A. McGINTY: I am coming to the question of retrospectivity. That issue has been resolved. I cannot think of any more ways to say the same thing, but there is no dispute about parity; equally, there is no dispute about backdating this agreement. Mr M.F. Board: It does not look that way. Mr J.A. McGINTY: I will explain it. There is no dispute. We have agreed to pay back-pay to 1 June this year, the date on which the previous agreement covering the enterprise bargaining agreement for nurses working in prisons expired. We have gone back to the starting date of the agreement and have said that it will apply from that date. The first issue of parity has been achieved; the second issue is back pay, and we have agreed to date the offer from the expiry of the old agreement. The nub of the disagreement is for the 12 months going back through most of 2001 and into this year. Dr J.M. Woollard interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: I will answer this question first. I am happy to take interjections. I am told that an offer has never been made to the ANF to backdate this particular pay rise into the time of the previous agreement. Furthermore, that will not happen. So, if I have a simple message for the nurses, it is this: they have achieved parity; they have been offered back pay to 1 June this year, which is some five-and-a-half months; and under no circumstances will we agree to pay back-pay for a further 12 months into last year. Today I spoke to a few nurses who were here and I explained the position to them. I said that I had never seen evidence of an offer to prison nurses to backdate the payments to 15 or 18 months ago, and such a situation would be contrary to my instructions from the Department of Justice. Mr M.F. Board: Have you seen the circular to which I have referred? Mr J.A. McGINTY: There is a general administrative circular dealing with another issue - Dr J.M. Woollard interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: I will make this point and then I will come back to the point raised by the member for Alfred Cove. Today when I was talking to these nurses, they said that historically there had been times when prison nurses were paid more than hospital nurses, and I said that was right. When they entered into an agreement, they signed it and they should honour that agreement. They are now trying to renegotiate an agreement that was signed off by the ANF and get an increase in pay for a period going back 18 months. We will not agree to it. We will honour the EBA that we signed - I think the Opposition signed it - covering that period. The new rates - the parity - will be backdated to the date on which that agreement expired. As part of my very significant experience in negotiating wages and working conditions on behalf of union members in this State, I am not familiar with the concept of allowing retrospectivity back into the life of a pre-existing agreement. I am not saying it has never happened, but I do not know that it has ever happened. Does any member have any knowledge of that happening? Never! We will not do it; it is not something that we have ever offered to the nurses. The best thing I can suggest to the prison nurses is that they have got parity and they have got a significant amount of back pay; therefore, they should get back to work and do their job, and they should do that as soon as possible because their actions are serving no purpose. Mr M.F. Board: Someone should have been honest with them and up-front about their position. It has taken a long time for them to be told. They were told, with circulars in hand, that they would receive parity from July 2001, because they came within the ANF and they were covered under those arrangements and it would be only a matter of time before the Government brought all the EBAs together. That is their understanding, and that is why they are so passionate about the matter. Mr J.A. McGINTY: From time to time people have understandings; sometimes they are not correct. I watched very closely as the Minister for Health resolved the nurses pay rise issue in the government hospital area. It was always my understanding from being very close to those negotiations that they would flow on to the prison nurses when their agreement expired, which was on 1 June this year. Whether other people have a different understanding, a misunderstanding or whatever, I cannot make it any clearer than to say that two of the three issues that this strike is allegedly about have been resolved. We have not agreed to that 12-month period of back pay going back into the life of the previous agreement, and we will not be paying back-pay for that other period. There is no point in them - Mr M.F. Board: Will you address the prison officer issue? Allegations have been made that prison officers are dispensing and administering drugs within the prison system. Mr J.A. McGINTY: Had the member given me some notice of that question, I would have been able to give a very straightforward answer. Mr M.F. Board: Are you prepared to tell us what the situation is? Mr J.A. McGINTY: Absolutely. I am happy to investigate that matter. Obviously we have prisoners who enjoy worse health than people in the general community; they need to get their medications. If nurses are not doing what they are paid and employed to do in the hospitals, we will not deny prisoners their prescribed medications. Mr M.F. Board interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: I am not sure that they are. The member for Murdoch has made an allegation. I do not think that is the case. If people have walked off the job, we will not deny prisoners lifesaving medication. Dr J.M. Woollard: The difference in salary is between the prison nurses and the agency nurses. The prison nurses believe this Government gave a commitment to pay them back pay to July 2001, and it has not kept its promise. More and more prison nurses are leaving and more and more agency nurses are moving into that area. Those agency nurses do not know the prisoners; they do not know their moods - Mr J.A. McGINTY: I can answer that very quickly. Nobody has ever argued that parity should exist between prison nurses and agency nurses. The member for Alfred Cove is the first one to put that claim forward; not even the ANF has put that claim forward. What the member is raising is a load of nonsense and it has no relevance. The figures raised by the member for Murdoch about the back pay and the payments for agency nurses do not sound right, but I will obtain more information. I make this simple request: if members are interested in answers to detailed questions, such as the amount of money that has been spent in a particular area, they should provide some notice and I will happily provide the information.
Mr J.A. McGINTY replied: (1)-(3) I am pleased to have the opportunity to fully explain the situation. It was a bit difficult yesterday because I was a bit like a yoyo, as you, Mr Speaker, intervened during the course of my answer. The offer has been made to the Western Australian branch of the Australian Nursing Federation for wage parity between prison nurses and hospital nurses. That is agreed. Today I noticed a sign over at Solidarity Park that read, “Nurses want parity”. They have got it; that is not in doubt any more. I have also instructed the department, because we have not been able to sign - Dr J.M. Woollard interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: Will the member listen. What do they want? Dr J.M. Woollard: They are paid less. Mr J.A. McGINTY: No, they are not. The member should clean the wax out of her ears and have a little listen. We have agreed to their wage claim that will give them parity, full stop. There is no longer any dispute about the wage rates between the ANF and the Government. Prison nurses will be paid the same as hospital nurses; parity has been achieved. Mr M.F. Board: Parity from July? Mr J.A. McGINTY: I am coming to the question of retrospectivity. That issue has been resolved. I cannot think of any more ways to say the same thing, but there is no dispute about parity; equally, there is no dispute about backdating this agreement. Mr M.F. Board: It does not look that way. Mr J.A. McGINTY: I will explain it. There is no dispute. We have agreed to pay back-pay to 1 June this year, the date on which the previous agreement covering the enterprise bargaining agreement for nurses working in prisons expired. We have gone back to the starting date of the agreement and have said that it will apply from that date. The first issue of parity has been achieved; the second issue is back pay, and we have agreed to date the offer from the expiry of the old agreement. The nub of the disagreement is for the 12 months going back through most of 2001 and into this year. Dr J.M. Woollard interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: I will answer this question first. I am happy to take interjections. I am told that an offer has never been made to the ANF to backdate this particular pay rise into the time of the previous agreement. Furthermore, that will not happen. So, if I have a simple message for the nurses, it is this: they have achieved parity; they have been offered back pay to 1 June this year, which is some five-and-a-half months; and under no circumstances will we agree to pay back-pay for a further 12 months into last year. Today I spoke to a few nurses who were here and I explained the position to them. I said that I had never seen evidence of an offer to prison nurses to backdate the payments to 15 or 18 months ago, and such a situation would be contrary to my instructions from the Department of Justice. Mr M.F. Board: Have you seen the circular to which I have referred? Mr J.A. McGINTY: There is a general administrative circular dealing with another issue - Dr J.M. Woollard interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: I will make this point and then I will come back to the point raised by the member for Alfred Cove. Today when I was talking to these nurses, they said that historically there had been times when prison nurses were paid more than hospital nurses, and I said that was right. When they entered into an agreement, they signed it and they should honour that agreement. They are now trying to renegotiate an agreement that was signed off by the ANF and get an increase in pay for a period going back 18 months. We will not agree to it. We will honour the EBA that we signed - I think the Opposition signed it - covering that period. The new rates - the parity - will be backdated to the date on which that agreement expired. As part of my very significant experience in negotiating wages and working conditions on behalf of union members in this State, I am not familiar with the concept of allowing retrospectivity back into the life of a pre-existing agreement. I am not saying it has never happened, but I do not know that it has ever happened. Does any member have any knowledge of that happening? Never! We will not do it; it is not something that we have ever offered to the nurses. The best thing I can suggest to the prison nurses is that they have got parity and they have got a significant amount of back pay; therefore, they should get back to work and do their job, and they should do that as soon as possible because their actions are serving no purpose. Mr M.F. Board: Someone should have been honest with them and up-front about their position. It has taken a long time for them to be told. They were told, with circulars in hand, that they would receive parity from July 2001, because they came within the ANF and they were covered under those arrangements and it would be only a matter of time before the Government brought all the EBAs together. That is their understanding, and that is why they are so passionate about the matter. Mr J.A. McGINTY: From time to time people have understandings; sometimes they are not correct. I watched very closely as the Minister for Health resolved the nurses pay rise issue in the government hospital area. It was always my understanding from being very close to those negotiations that they would flow on to the prison nurses when their agreement expired, which was on 1 June this year. Whether other people have a different understanding, a misunderstanding or whatever, I cannot make it any clearer than to say that two of the three issues that this strike is allegedly about have been resolved. We have not agreed to that 12-month period of back pay going back into the life of the previous agreement, and we will not be paying back-pay for that other period. There is no point in them - Mr M.F. Board: Will you address the prison officer issue? Allegations have been made that prison officers are dispensing and administering drugs within the prison system. Mr J.A. McGINTY: Had the member given me some notice of that question, I would have been able to give a very straightforward answer. Mr M.F. Board: Are you prepared to tell us what the situation is? Mr J.A. McGINTY: Absolutely. I am happy to investigate that matter. Obviously we have prisoners who enjoy worse health than people in the general community; they need to get their medications. If nurses are not doing what they are paid and employed to do in the hospitals, we will not deny prisoners their prescribed medications. Mr M.F. Board interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: I am not sure that they are. The member for Murdoch has made an allegation. I do not think that is the case. If people have walked off the job, we will not deny prisoners lifesaving medication. Dr J.M. Woollard: The difference in salary is between the prison nurses and the agency nurses. The prison nurses believe this Government gave a commitment to pay them back pay to July 2001, and it has not kept its promise. More and more prison nurses are leaving and more and more agency nurses are moving into that area. Those agency nurses do not know the prisoners; they do not know their moods - Mr J.A. McGINTY: I can answer that very quickly. Nobody has ever argued that parity should exist between prison nurses and agency nurses. The member for Alfred Cove is the first one to put that claim forward; not even the ANF has put that claim forward. What the member is raising is a load of nonsense and it has no relevance. The figures raised by the member for Murdoch about the back pay and the payments for agency nurses do not sound right, but I will obtain more information. I make this simple request: if members are interested in answers to detailed questions, such as the amount of money that has been spent in a particular area, they should provide some notice and I will happily provide the information.
(1)-(3) I am pleased to have the opportunity to fully explain the situation. It was a bit difficult yesterday because I was a bit like a yoyo, as you, Mr Speaker, intervened during the course of my answer. The offer has been made to the Western Australian branch of the Australian Nursing Federation for wage parity between prison nurses and hospital nurses. That is agreed. Today I noticed a sign over at Solidarity Park that read, “Nurses want parity”. They have got it; that is not in doubt any more. I have also instructed the department, because we have not been able to sign - Dr J.M. Woollard interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: Will the member listen. What do they want? Dr J.M. Woollard: They are paid less. Mr J.A. McGINTY: No, they are not. The member should clean the wax out of her ears and have a little listen. We have agreed to their wage claim that will give them parity, full stop. There is no longer any dispute about the wage rates between the ANF and the Government. Prison nurses will be paid the same as hospital nurses; parity has been achieved. Mr M.F. Board: Parity from July? Mr J.A. McGINTY: I am coming to the question of retrospectivity. That issue has been resolved. I cannot think of any more ways to say the same thing, but there is no dispute about parity; equally, there is no dispute about backdating this agreement. Mr M.F. Board: It does not look that way. Mr J.A. McGINTY: I will explain it. There is no dispute. We have agreed to pay back-pay to 1 June this year, the date on which the previous agreement covering the enterprise bargaining agreement for nurses working in prisons expired. We have gone back to the starting date of the agreement and have said that it will apply from that date. The first issue of parity has been achieved; the second issue is back pay, and we have agreed to date the offer from the expiry of the old agreement. The nub of the disagreement is for the 12 months going back through most of 2001 and into this year. Dr J.M. Woollard interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: I will answer this question first. I am happy to take interjections. I am told that an offer has never been made to the ANF to backdate this particular pay rise into the time of the previous agreement. Furthermore, that will not happen. So, if I have a simple message for the nurses, it is this: they have achieved parity; they have been offered back pay to 1 June this year, which is some five-and-a-half months; and under no circumstances will we agree to pay back-pay for a further 12 months into last year. Today I spoke to a few nurses who were here and I explained the position to them. I said that I had never seen evidence of an offer to prison nurses to backdate the payments to 15 or 18 months ago, and such a situation would be contrary to my instructions from the Department of Justice. Mr M.F. Board: Have you seen the circular to which I have referred? Mr J.A. McGINTY: There is a general administrative circular dealing with another issue - Dr J.M. Woollard interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: I will make this point and then I will come back to the point raised by the member for Alfred Cove. Today when I was talking to these nurses, they said that historically there had been times when prison nurses were paid more than hospital nurses, and I said that was right. When they entered into an agreement, they signed it and they should honour that agreement. They are now trying to renegotiate an agreement that was signed off by the ANF and get an increase in pay for a period going back 18 months. We will not agree to it. We will honour the EBA that we signed - I think the Opposition signed it - covering that period. The new rates - the parity - will be backdated to the date on which that agreement expired. As part of my very significant experience in negotiating wages and working conditions on behalf of union members in this State, I am not familiar with the concept of allowing retrospectivity back into the life of a pre-existing agreement. I am not saying it has never happened, but I do not know that it has ever happened. Does any member have any knowledge of that happening? Never! We will not do it; it is not something that we have ever offered to the nurses. The best thing I can suggest to the prison nurses is that they have got parity and they have got a significant amount of back pay; therefore, they should get back to work and do their job, and they should do that as soon as possible because their actions are serving no purpose. Mr M.F. Board: Someone should have been honest with them and up-front about their position. It has taken a long time for them to be told. They were told, with circulars in hand, that they would receive parity from July 2001, because they came within the ANF and they were covered under those arrangements and it would be only a matter of time before the Government brought all the EBAs together. That is their understanding, and that is why they are so passionate about the matter. Mr J.A. McGINTY: From time to time people have understandings; sometimes they are not correct. I watched very closely as the Minister for Health resolved the nurses pay rise issue in the government hospital area. It was always my understanding from being very close to those negotiations that they would flow on to the prison nurses when their agreement expired, which was on 1 June this year. Whether other people have a different understanding, a misunderstanding or whatever, I cannot make it any clearer than to say that two of the three issues that this strike is allegedly about have been resolved. We have not agreed to that 12-month period of back pay going back into the life of the previous agreement, and we will not be paying back-pay for that other period. There is no point in them - Mr M.F. Board: Will you address the prison officer issue? Allegations have been made that prison officers are dispensing and administering drugs within the prison system. Mr J.A. McGINTY: Had the member given me some notice of that question, I would have been able to give a very straightforward answer. Mr M.F. Board: Are you prepared to tell us what the situation is? Mr J.A. McGINTY: Absolutely. I am happy to investigate that matter. Obviously we have prisoners who enjoy worse health than people in the general community; they need to get their medications. If nurses are not doing what they are paid and employed to do in the hospitals, we will not deny prisoners their prescribed medications. Mr M.F. Board interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: I am not sure that they are. The member for Murdoch has made an allegation. I do not think that is the case. If people have walked off the job, we will not deny prisoners lifesaving medication. Dr J.M. Woollard: The difference in salary is between the prison nurses and the agency nurses. The prison nurses believe this Government gave a commitment to pay them back pay to July 2001, and it has not kept its promise. More and more prison nurses are leaving and more and more agency nurses are moving into that area. Those agency nurses do not know the prisoners; they do not know their moods - Mr J.A. McGINTY: I can answer that very quickly. Nobody has ever argued that parity should exist between prison nurses and agency nurses. The member for Alfred Cove is the first one to put that claim forward; not even the ANF has put that claim forward. What the member is raising is a load of nonsense and it has no relevance. The figures raised by the member for Murdoch about the back pay and the payments for agency nurses do not sound right, but I will obtain more information. I make this simple request: if members are interested in answers to detailed questions, such as the amount of money that has been spent in a particular area, they should provide some notice and I will happily provide the information.
Dr J.M. Woollard interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: Will the member listen. What do they want? Dr J.M. Woollard: They are paid less. Mr J.A. McGINTY: No, they are not. The member should clean the wax out of her ears and have a little listen. We have agreed to their wage claim that will give them parity, full stop. There is no longer any dispute about the wage rates between the ANF and the Government. Prison nurses will be paid the same as hospital nurses; parity has been achieved. Mr M.F. Board: Parity from July? Mr J.A. McGINTY: I am coming to the question of retrospectivity. That issue has been resolved. I cannot think of any more ways to say the same thing, but there is no dispute about parity; equally, there is no dispute about backdating this agreement. Mr M.F. Board: It does not look that way. Mr J.A. McGINTY: I will explain it. There is no dispute. We have agreed to pay back-pay to 1 June this year, the date on which the previous agreement covering the enterprise bargaining agreement for nurses working in prisons expired. We have gone back to the starting date of the agreement and have said that it will apply from that date. The first issue of parity has been achieved; the second issue is back pay, and we have agreed to date the offer from the expiry of the old agreement. The nub of the disagreement is for the 12 months going back through most of 2001 and into this year. Dr J.M. Woollard interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: I will answer this question first. I am happy to take interjections. I am told that an offer has never been made to the ANF to backdate this particular pay rise into the time of the previous agreement. Furthermore, that will not happen. So, if I have a simple message for the nurses, it is this: they have achieved parity; they have been offered back pay to 1 June this year, which is some five-and-a-half months; and under no circumstances will we agree to pay back-pay for a further 12 months into last year. Today I spoke to a few nurses who were here and I explained the position to them. I said that I had never seen evidence of an offer to prison nurses to backdate the payments to 15 or 18 months ago, and such a situation would be contrary to my instructions from the Department of Justice. Mr M.F. Board: Have you seen the circular to which I have referred? Mr J.A. McGINTY: There is a general administrative circular dealing with another issue - Dr J.M. Woollard interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: I will make this point and then I will come back to the point raised by the member for Alfred Cove. Today when I was talking to these nurses, they said that historically there had been times when prison nurses were paid more than hospital nurses, and I said that was right. When they entered into an agreement, they signed it and they should honour that agreement. They are now trying to renegotiate an agreement that was signed off by the ANF and get an increase in pay for a period going back 18 months. We will not agree to it. We will honour the EBA that we signed - I think the Opposition signed it - covering that period. The new rates - the parity - will be backdated to the date on which that agreement expired. As part of my very significant experience in negotiating wages and working conditions on behalf of union members in this State, I am not familiar with the concept of allowing retrospectivity back into the life of a pre-existing agreement. I am not saying it has never happened, but I do not know that it has ever happened. Does any member have any knowledge of that happening? Never! We will not do it; it is not something that we have ever offered to the nurses. The best thing I can suggest to the prison nurses is that they have got parity and they have got a significant amount of back pay; therefore, they should get back to work and do their job, and they should do that as soon as possible because their actions are serving no purpose. Mr M.F. Board: Someone should have been honest with them and up-front about their position. It has taken a long time for them to be told. They were told, with circulars in hand, that they would receive parity from July 2001, because they came within the ANF and they were covered under those arrangements and it would be only a matter of time before the Government brought all the EBAs together. That is their understanding, and that is why they are so passionate about the matter. Mr J.A. McGINTY: From time to time people have understandings; sometimes they are not correct. I watched very closely as the Minister for Health resolved the nurses pay rise issue in the government hospital area. It was always my understanding from being very close to those negotiations that they would flow on to the prison nurses when their agreement expired, which was on 1 June this year. Whether other people have a different understanding, a misunderstanding or whatever, I cannot make it any clearer than to say that two of the three issues that this strike is allegedly about have been resolved. We have not agreed to that 12-month period of back pay going back into the life of the previous agreement, and we will not be paying back-pay for that other period. There is no point in them - Mr M.F. Board: Will you address the prison officer issue? Allegations have been made that prison officers are dispensing and administering drugs within the prison system. Mr J.A. McGINTY: Had the member given me some notice of that question, I would have been able to give a very straightforward answer. Mr M.F. Board: Are you prepared to tell us what the situation is? Mr J.A. McGINTY: Absolutely. I am happy to investigate that matter. Obviously we have prisoners who enjoy worse health than people in the general community; they need to get their medications. If nurses are not doing what they are paid and employed to do in the hospitals, we will not deny prisoners their prescribed medications. Mr M.F. Board interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: I am not sure that they are. The member for Murdoch has made an allegation. I do not think that is the case. If people have walked off the job, we will not deny prisoners lifesaving medication. Dr J.M. Woollard: The difference in salary is between the prison nurses and the agency nurses. The prison nurses believe this Government gave a commitment to pay them back pay to July 2001, and it has not kept its promise. More and more prison nurses are leaving and more and more agency nurses are moving into that area. Those agency nurses do not know the prisoners; they do not know their moods - Mr J.A. McGINTY: I can answer that very quickly. Nobody has ever argued that parity should exist between prison nurses and agency nurses. The member for Alfred Cove is the first one to put that claim forward; not even the ANF has put that claim forward. What the member is raising is a load of nonsense and it has no relevance. The figures raised by the member for Murdoch about the back pay and the payments for agency nurses do not sound right, but I will obtain more information. I make this simple request: if members are interested in answers to detailed questions, such as the amount of money that has been spent in a particular area, they should provide some notice and I will happily provide the information.
Mr J.A. McGINTY: Will the member listen. What do they want? Dr J.M. Woollard: They are paid less. Mr J.A. McGINTY: No, they are not. The member should clean the wax out of her ears and have a little listen. We have agreed to their wage claim that will give them parity, full stop. There is no longer any dispute about the wage rates between the ANF and the Government. Prison nurses will be paid the same as hospital nurses; parity has been achieved. Mr M.F. Board: Parity from July? Mr J.A. McGINTY: I am coming to the question of retrospectivity. That issue has been resolved. I cannot think of any more ways to say the same thing, but there is no dispute about parity; equally, there is no dispute about backdating this agreement. Mr M.F. Board: It does not look that way. Mr J.A. McGINTY: I will explain it. There is no dispute. We have agreed to pay back-pay to 1 June this year, the date on which the previous agreement covering the enterprise bargaining agreement for nurses working in prisons expired. We have gone back to the starting date of the agreement and have said that it will apply from that date. The first issue of parity has been achieved; the second issue is back pay, and we have agreed to date the offer from the expiry of the old agreement. The nub of the disagreement is for the 12 months going back through most of 2001 and into this year. Dr J.M. Woollard interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: I will answer this question first. I am happy to take interjections. I am told that an offer has never been made to the ANF to backdate this particular pay rise into the time of the previous agreement. Furthermore, that will not happen. So, if I have a simple message for the nurses, it is this: they have achieved parity; they have been offered back pay to 1 June this year, which is some five-and-a-half months; and under no circumstances will we agree to pay back-pay for a further 12 months into last year. Today I spoke to a few nurses who were here and I explained the position to them. I said that I had never seen evidence of an offer to prison nurses to backdate the payments to 15 or 18 months ago, and such a situation would be contrary to my instructions from the Department of Justice. Mr M.F. Board: Have you seen the circular to which I have referred? Mr J.A. McGINTY: There is a general administrative circular dealing with another issue - Dr J.M. Woollard interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: I will make this point and then I will come back to the point raised by the member for Alfred Cove. Today when I was talking to these nurses, they said that historically there had been times when prison nurses were paid more than hospital nurses, and I said that was right. When they entered into an agreement, they signed it and they should honour that agreement. They are now trying to renegotiate an agreement that was signed off by the ANF and get an increase in pay for a period going back 18 months. We will not agree to it. We will honour the EBA that we signed - I think the Opposition signed it - covering that period. The new rates - the parity - will be backdated to the date on which that agreement expired. As part of my very significant experience in negotiating wages and working conditions on behalf of union members in this State, I am not familiar with the concept of allowing retrospectivity back into the life of a pre-existing agreement. I am not saying it has never happened, but I do not know that it has ever happened. Does any member have any knowledge of that happening? Never! We will not do it; it is not something that we have ever offered to the nurses. The best thing I can suggest to the prison nurses is that they have got parity and they have got a significant amount of back pay; therefore, they should get back to work and do their job, and they should do that as soon as possible because their actions are serving no purpose. Mr M.F. Board: Someone should have been honest with them and up-front about their position. It has taken a long time for them to be told. They were told, with circulars in hand, that they would receive parity from July 2001, because they came within the ANF and they were covered under those arrangements and it would be only a matter of time before the Government brought all the EBAs together. That is their understanding, and that is why they are so passionate about the matter. Mr J.A. McGINTY: From time to time people have understandings; sometimes they are not correct. I watched very closely as the Minister for Health resolved the nurses pay rise issue in the government hospital area. It was always my understanding from being very close to those negotiations that they would flow on to the prison nurses when their agreement expired, which was on 1 June this year. Whether other people have a different understanding, a misunderstanding or whatever, I cannot make it any clearer than to say that two of the three issues that this strike is allegedly about have been resolved. We have not agreed to that 12-month period of back pay going back into the life of the previous agreement, and we will not be paying back-pay for that other period. There is no point in them - Mr M.F. Board: Will you address the prison officer issue? Allegations have been made that prison officers are dispensing and administering drugs within the prison system. Mr J.A. McGINTY: Had the member given me some notice of that question, I would have been able to give a very straightforward answer. Mr M.F. Board: Are you prepared to tell us what the situation is? Mr J.A. McGINTY: Absolutely. I am happy to investigate that matter. Obviously we have prisoners who enjoy worse health than people in the general community; they need to get their medications. If nurses are not doing what they are paid and employed to do in the hospitals, we will not deny prisoners their prescribed medications. Mr M.F. Board interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: I am not sure that they are. The member for Murdoch has made an allegation. I do not think that is the case. If people have walked off the job, we will not deny prisoners lifesaving medication. Dr J.M. Woollard: The difference in salary is between the prison nurses and the agency nurses. The prison nurses believe this Government gave a commitment to pay them back pay to July 2001, and it has not kept its promise. More and more prison nurses are leaving and more and more agency nurses are moving into that area. Those agency nurses do not know the prisoners; they do not know their moods - Mr J.A. McGINTY: I can answer that very quickly. Nobody has ever argued that parity should exist between prison nurses and agency nurses. The member for Alfred Cove is the first one to put that claim forward; not even the ANF has put that claim forward. What the member is raising is a load of nonsense and it has no relevance. The figures raised by the member for Murdoch about the back pay and the payments for agency nurses do not sound right, but I will obtain more information. I make this simple request: if members are interested in answers to detailed questions, such as the amount of money that has been spent in a particular area, they should provide some notice and I will happily provide the information.
Dr J.M. Woollard: They are paid less. Mr J.A. McGINTY: No, they are not. The member should clean the wax out of her ears and have a little listen. We have agreed to their wage claim that will give them parity, full stop. There is no longer any dispute about the wage rates between the ANF and the Government. Prison nurses will be paid the same as hospital nurses; parity has been achieved. Mr M.F. Board: Parity from July? Mr J.A. McGINTY: I am coming to the question of retrospectivity. That issue has been resolved. I cannot think of any more ways to say the same thing, but there is no dispute about parity; equally, there is no dispute about backdating this agreement. Mr M.F. Board: It does not look that way. Mr J.A. McGINTY: I will explain it. There is no dispute. We have agreed to pay back-pay to 1 June this year, the date on which the previous agreement covering the enterprise bargaining agreement for nurses working in prisons expired. We have gone back to the starting date of the agreement and have said that it will apply from that date. The first issue of parity has been achieved; the second issue is back pay, and we have agreed to date the offer from the expiry of the old agreement. The nub of the disagreement is for the 12 months going back through most of 2001 and into this year. Dr J.M. Woollard interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: I will answer this question first. I am happy to take interjections. I am told that an offer has never been made to the ANF to backdate this particular pay rise into the time of the previous agreement. Furthermore, that will not happen. So, if I have a simple message for the nurses, it is this: they have achieved parity; they have been offered back pay to 1 June this year, which is some five-and-a-half months; and under no circumstances will we agree to pay back-pay for a further 12 months into last year. Today I spoke to a few nurses who were here and I explained the position to them. I said that I had never seen evidence of an offer to prison nurses to backdate the payments to 15 or 18 months ago, and such a situation would be contrary to my instructions from the Department of Justice. Mr M.F. Board: Have you seen the circular to which I have referred? Mr J.A. McGINTY: There is a general administrative circular dealing with another issue - Dr J.M. Woollard interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: I will make this point and then I will come back to the point raised by the member for Alfred Cove. Today when I was talking to these nurses, they said that historically there had been times when prison nurses were paid more than hospital nurses, and I said that was right. When they entered into an agreement, they signed it and they should honour that agreement. They are now trying to renegotiate an agreement that was signed off by the ANF and get an increase in pay for a period going back 18 months. We will not agree to it. We will honour the EBA that we signed - I think the Opposition signed it - covering that period. The new rates - the parity - will be backdated to the date on which that agreement expired. As part of my very significant experience in negotiating wages and working conditions on behalf of union members in this State, I am not familiar with the concept of allowing retrospectivity back into the life of a pre-existing agreement. I am not saying it has never happened, but I do not know that it has ever happened. Does any member have any knowledge of that happening? Never! We will not do it; it is not something that we have ever offered to the nurses. The best thing I can suggest to the prison nurses is that they have got parity and they have got a significant amount of back pay; therefore, they should get back to work and do their job, and they should do that as soon as possible because their actions are serving no purpose. Mr M.F. Board: Someone should have been honest with them and up-front about their position. It has taken a long time for them to be told. They were told, with circulars in hand, that they would receive parity from July 2001, because they came within the ANF and they were covered under those arrangements and it would be only a matter of time before the Government brought all the EBAs together. That is their understanding, and that is why they are so passionate about the matter. Mr J.A. McGINTY: From time to time people have understandings; sometimes they are not correct. I watched very closely as the Minister for Health resolved the nurses pay rise issue in the government hospital area. It was always my understanding from being very close to those negotiations that they would flow on to the prison nurses when their agreement expired, which was on 1 June this year. Whether other people have a different understanding, a misunderstanding or whatever, I cannot make it any clearer than to say that two of the three issues that this strike is allegedly about have been resolved. We have not agreed to that 12-month period of back pay going back into the life of the previous agreement, and we will not be paying back-pay for that other period. There is no point in them - Mr M.F. Board: Will you address the prison officer issue? Allegations have been made that prison officers are dispensing and administering drugs within the prison system. Mr J.A. McGINTY: Had the member given me some notice of that question, I would have been able to give a very straightforward answer. Mr M.F. Board: Are you prepared to tell us what the situation is? Mr J.A. McGINTY: Absolutely. I am happy to investigate that matter. Obviously we have prisoners who enjoy worse health than people in the general community; they need to get their medications. If nurses are not doing what they are paid and employed to do in the hospitals, we will not deny prisoners their prescribed medications. Mr M.F. Board interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: I am not sure that they are. The member for Murdoch has made an allegation. I do not think that is the case. If people have walked off the job, we will not deny prisoners lifesaving medication. Dr J.M. Woollard: The difference in salary is between the prison nurses and the agency nurses. The prison nurses believe this Government gave a commitment to pay them back pay to July 2001, and it has not kept its promise. More and more prison nurses are leaving and more and more agency nurses are moving into that area. Those agency nurses do not know the prisoners; they do not know their moods - Mr J.A. McGINTY: I can answer that very quickly. Nobody has ever argued that parity should exist between prison nurses and agency nurses. The member for Alfred Cove is the first one to put that claim forward; not even the ANF has put that claim forward. What the member is raising is a load of nonsense and it has no relevance. The figures raised by the member for Murdoch about the back pay and the payments for agency nurses do not sound right, but I will obtain more information. I make this simple request: if members are interested in answers to detailed questions, such as the amount of money that has been spent in a particular area, they should provide some notice and I will happily provide the information.
Mr J.A. McGINTY: No, they are not. The member should clean the wax out of her ears and have a little listen. We have agreed to their wage claim that will give them parity, full stop. There is no longer any dispute about the wage rates between the ANF and the Government. Prison nurses will be paid the same as hospital nurses; parity has been achieved. Mr M.F. Board: Parity from July? Mr J.A. McGINTY: I am coming to the question of retrospectivity. That issue has been resolved. I cannot think of any more ways to say the same thing, but there is no dispute about parity; equally, there is no dispute about backdating this agreement. Mr M.F. Board: It does not look that way. Mr J.A. McGINTY: I will explain it. There is no dispute. We have agreed to pay back-pay to 1 June this year, the date on which the previous agreement covering the enterprise bargaining agreement for nurses working in prisons expired. We have gone back to the starting date of the agreement and have said that it will apply from that date. The first issue of parity has been achieved; the second issue is back pay, and we have agreed to date the offer from the expiry of the old agreement. The nub of the disagreement is for the 12 months going back through most of 2001 and into this year. Dr J.M. Woollard interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: I will answer this question first. I am happy to take interjections. I am told that an offer has never been made to the ANF to backdate this particular pay rise into the time of the previous agreement. Furthermore, that will not happen. So, if I have a simple message for the nurses, it is this: they have achieved parity; they have been offered back pay to 1 June this year, which is some five-and-a-half months; and under no circumstances will we agree to pay back-pay for a further 12 months into last year. Today I spoke to a few nurses who were here and I explained the position to them. I said that I had never seen evidence of an offer to prison nurses to backdate the payments to 15 or 18 months ago, and such a situation would be contrary to my instructions from the Department of Justice. Mr M.F. Board: Have you seen the circular to which I have referred? Mr J.A. McGINTY: There is a general administrative circular dealing with another issue - Dr J.M. Woollard interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: I will make this point and then I will come back to the point raised by the member for Alfred Cove. Today when I was talking to these nurses, they said that historically there had been times when prison nurses were paid more than hospital nurses, and I said that was right. When they entered into an agreement, they signed it and they should honour that agreement. They are now trying to renegotiate an agreement that was signed off by the ANF and get an increase in pay for a period going back 18 months. We will not agree to it. We will honour the EBA that we signed - I think the Opposition signed it - covering that period. The new rates - the parity - will be backdated to the date on which that agreement expired. As part of my very significant experience in negotiating wages and working conditions on behalf of union members in this State, I am not familiar with the concept of allowing retrospectivity back into the life of a pre-existing agreement. I am not saying it has never happened, but I do not know that it has ever happened. Does any member have any knowledge of that happening? Never! We will not do it; it is not something that we have ever offered to the nurses. The best thing I can suggest to the prison nurses is that they have got parity and they have got a significant amount of back pay; therefore, they should get back to work and do their job, and they should do that as soon as possible because their actions are serving no purpose. Mr M.F. Board: Someone should have been honest with them and up-front about their position. It has taken a long time for them to be told. They were told, with circulars in hand, that they would receive parity from July 2001, because they came within the ANF and they were covered under those arrangements and it would be only a matter of time before the Government brought all the EBAs together. That is their understanding, and that is why they are so passionate about the matter. Mr J.A. McGINTY: From time to time people have understandings; sometimes they are not correct. I watched very closely as the Minister for Health resolved the nurses pay rise issue in the government hospital area. It was always my understanding from being very close to those negotiations that they would flow on to the prison nurses when their agreement expired, which was on 1 June this year. Whether other people have a different understanding, a misunderstanding or whatever, I cannot make it any clearer than to say that two of the three issues that this strike is allegedly about have been resolved. We have not agreed to that 12-month period of back pay going back into the life of the previous agreement, and we will not be paying back-pay for that other period. There is no point in them - Mr M.F. Board: Will you address the prison officer issue? Allegations have been made that prison officers are dispensing and administering drugs within the prison system. Mr J.A. McGINTY: Had the member given me some notice of that question, I would have been able to give a very straightforward answer. Mr M.F. Board: Are you prepared to tell us what the situation is? Mr J.A. McGINTY: Absolutely. I am happy to investigate that matter. Obviously we have prisoners who enjoy worse health than people in the general community; they need to get their medications. If nurses are not doing what they are paid and employed to do in the hospitals, we will not deny prisoners their prescribed medications. Mr M.F. Board interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: I am not sure that they are. The member for Murdoch has made an allegation. I do not think that is the case. If people have walked off the job, we will not deny prisoners lifesaving medication. Dr J.M. Woollard: The difference in salary is between the prison nurses and the agency nurses. The prison nurses believe this Government gave a commitment to pay them back pay to July 2001, and it has not kept its promise. More and more prison nurses are leaving and more and more agency nurses are moving into that area. Those agency nurses do not know the prisoners; they do not know their moods - Mr J.A. McGINTY: I can answer that very quickly. Nobody has ever argued that parity should exist between prison nurses and agency nurses. The member for Alfred Cove is the first one to put that claim forward; not even the ANF has put that claim forward. What the member is raising is a load of nonsense and it has no relevance. The figures raised by the member for Murdoch about the back pay and the payments for agency nurses do not sound right, but I will obtain more information. I make this simple request: if members are interested in answers to detailed questions, such as the amount of money that has been spent in a particular area, they should provide some notice and I will happily provide the information.
Mr M.F. Board: Parity from July? Mr J.A. McGINTY: I am coming to the question of retrospectivity. That issue has been resolved. I cannot think of any more ways to say the same thing, but there is no dispute about parity; equally, there is no dispute about backdating this agreement. Mr M.F. Board: It does not look that way. Mr J.A. McGINTY: I will explain it. There is no dispute. We have agreed to pay back-pay to 1 June this year, the date on which the previous agreement covering the enterprise bargaining agreement for nurses working in prisons expired. We have gone back to the starting date of the agreement and have said that it will apply from that date. The first issue of parity has been achieved; the second issue is back pay, and we have agreed to date the offer from the expiry of the old agreement. The nub of the disagreement is for the 12 months going back through most of 2001 and into this year. Dr J.M. Woollard interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: I will answer this question first. I am happy to take interjections. I am told that an offer has never been made to the ANF to backdate this particular pay rise into the time of the previous agreement. Furthermore, that will not happen. So, if I have a simple message for the nurses, it is this: they have achieved parity; they have been offered back pay to 1 June this year, which is some five-and-a-half months; and under no circumstances will we agree to pay back-pay for a further 12 months into last year. Today I spoke to a few nurses who were here and I explained the position to them. I said that I had never seen evidence of an offer to prison nurses to backdate the payments to 15 or 18 months ago, and such a situation would be contrary to my instructions from the Department of Justice. Mr M.F. Board: Have you seen the circular to which I have referred? Mr J.A. McGINTY: There is a general administrative circular dealing with another issue - Dr J.M. Woollard interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: I will make this point and then I will come back to the point raised by the member for Alfred Cove. Today when I was talking to these nurses, they said that historically there had been times when prison nurses were paid more than hospital nurses, and I said that was right. When they entered into an agreement, they signed it and they should honour that agreement. They are now trying to renegotiate an agreement that was signed off by the ANF and get an increase in pay for a period going back 18 months. We will not agree to it. We will honour the EBA that we signed - I think the Opposition signed it - covering that period. The new rates - the parity - will be backdated to the date on which that agreement expired. As part of my very significant experience in negotiating wages and working conditions on behalf of union members in this State, I am not familiar with the concept of allowing retrospectivity back into the life of a pre-existing agreement. I am not saying it has never happened, but I do not know that it has ever happened. Does any member have any knowledge of that happening? Never! We will not do it; it is not something that we have ever offered to the nurses. The best thing I can suggest to the prison nurses is that they have got parity and they have got a significant amount of back pay; therefore, they should get back to work and do their job, and they should do that as soon as possible because their actions are serving no purpose. Mr M.F. Board: Someone should have been honest with them and up-front about their position. It has taken a long time for them to be told. They were told, with circulars in hand, that they would receive parity from July 2001, because they came within the ANF and they were covered under those arrangements and it would be only a matter of time before the Government brought all the EBAs together. That is their understanding, and that is why they are so passionate about the matter. Mr J.A. McGINTY: From time to time people have understandings; sometimes they are not correct. I watched very closely as the Minister for Health resolved the nurses pay rise issue in the government hospital area. It was always my understanding from being very close to those negotiations that they would flow on to the prison nurses when their agreement expired, which was on 1 June this year. Whether other people have a different understanding, a misunderstanding or whatever, I cannot make it any clearer than to say that two of the three issues that this strike is allegedly about have been resolved. We have not agreed to that 12-month period of back pay going back into the life of the previous agreement, and we will not be paying back-pay for that other period. There is no point in them - Mr M.F. Board: Will you address the prison officer issue? Allegations have been made that prison officers are dispensing and administering drugs within the prison system. Mr J.A. McGINTY: Had the member given me some notice of that question, I would have been able to give a very straightforward answer. Mr M.F. Board: Are you prepared to tell us what the situation is? Mr J.A. McGINTY: Absolutely. I am happy to investigate that matter. Obviously we have prisoners who enjoy worse health than people in the general community; they need to get their medications. If nurses are not doing what they are paid and employed to do in the hospitals, we will not deny prisoners their prescribed medications. Mr M.F. Board interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: I am not sure that they are. The member for Murdoch has made an allegation. I do not think that is the case. If people have walked off the job, we will not deny prisoners lifesaving medication. Dr J.M. Woollard: The difference in salary is between the prison nurses and the agency nurses. The prison nurses believe this Government gave a commitment to pay them back pay to July 2001, and it has not kept its promise. More and more prison nurses are leaving and more and more agency nurses are moving into that area. Those agency nurses do not know the prisoners; they do not know their moods - Mr J.A. McGINTY: I can answer that very quickly. Nobody has ever argued that parity should exist between prison nurses and agency nurses. The member for Alfred Cove is the first one to put that claim forward; not even the ANF has put that claim forward. What the member is raising is a load of nonsense and it has no relevance. The figures raised by the member for Murdoch about the back pay and the payments for agency nurses do not sound right, but I will obtain more information. I make this simple request: if members are interested in answers to detailed questions, such as the amount of money that has been spent in a particular area, they should provide some notice and I will happily provide the information.
Mr J.A. McGINTY: I am coming to the question of retrospectivity. That issue has been resolved. I cannot think of any more ways to say the same thing, but there is no dispute about parity; equally, there is no dispute about backdating this agreement. Mr M.F. Board: It does not look that way. Mr J.A. McGINTY: I will explain it. There is no dispute. We have agreed to pay back-pay to 1 June this year, the date on which the previous agreement covering the enterprise bargaining agreement for nurses working in prisons expired. We have gone back to the starting date of the agreement and have said that it will apply from that date. The first issue of parity has been achieved; the second issue is back pay, and we have agreed to date the offer from the expiry of the old agreement. The nub of the disagreement is for the 12 months going back through most of 2001 and into this year. Dr J.M. Woollard interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: I will answer this question first. I am happy to take interjections. I am told that an offer has never been made to the ANF to backdate this particular pay rise into the time of the previous agreement. Furthermore, that will not happen. So, if I have a simple message for the nurses, it is this: they have achieved parity; they have been offered back pay to 1 June this year, which is some five-and-a-half months; and under no circumstances will we agree to pay back-pay for a further 12 months into last year. Today I spoke to a few nurses who were here and I explained the position to them. I said that I had never seen evidence of an offer to prison nurses to backdate the payments to 15 or 18 months ago, and such a situation would be contrary to my instructions from the Department of Justice. Mr M.F. Board: Have you seen the circular to which I have referred? Mr J.A. McGINTY: There is a general administrative circular dealing with another issue - Dr J.M. Woollard interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: I will make this point and then I will come back to the point raised by the member for Alfred Cove. Today when I was talking to these nurses, they said that historically there had been times when prison nurses were paid more than hospital nurses, and I said that was right. When they entered into an agreement, they signed it and they should honour that agreement. They are now trying to renegotiate an agreement that was signed off by the ANF and get an increase in pay for a period going back 18 months. We will not agree to it. We will honour the EBA that we signed - I think the Opposition signed it - covering that period. The new rates - the parity - will be backdated to the date on which that agreement expired. As part of my very significant experience in negotiating wages and working conditions on behalf of union members in this State, I am not familiar with the concept of allowing retrospectivity back into the life of a pre-existing agreement. I am not saying it has never happened, but I do not know that it has ever happened. Does any member have any knowledge of that happening? Never! We will not do it; it is not something that we have ever offered to the nurses. The best thing I can suggest to the prison nurses is that they have got parity and they have got a significant amount of back pay; therefore, they should get back to work and do their job, and they should do that as soon as possible because their actions are serving no purpose. Mr M.F. Board: Someone should have been honest with them and up-front about their position. It has taken a long time for them to be told. They were told, with circulars in hand, that they would receive parity from July 2001, because they came within the ANF and they were covered under those arrangements and it would be only a matter of time before the Government brought all the EBAs together. That is their understanding, and that is why they are so passionate about the matter. Mr J.A. McGINTY: From time to time people have understandings; sometimes they are not correct. I watched very closely as the Minister for Health resolved the nurses pay rise issue in the government hospital area. It was always my understanding from being very close to those negotiations that they would flow on to the prison nurses when their agreement expired, which was on 1 June this year. Whether other people have a different understanding, a misunderstanding or whatever, I cannot make it any clearer than to say that two of the three issues that this strike is allegedly about have been resolved. We have not agreed to that 12-month period of back pay going back into the life of the previous agreement, and we will not be paying back-pay for that other period. There is no point in them - Mr M.F. Board: Will you address the prison officer issue? Allegations have been made that prison officers are dispensing and administering drugs within the prison system. Mr J.A. McGINTY: Had the member given me some notice of that question, I would have been able to give a very straightforward answer. Mr M.F. Board: Are you prepared to tell us what the situation is? Mr J.A. McGINTY: Absolutely. I am happy to investigate that matter. Obviously we have prisoners who enjoy worse health than people in the general community; they need to get their medications. If nurses are not doing what they are paid and employed to do in the hospitals, we will not deny prisoners their prescribed medications. Mr M.F. Board interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: I am not sure that they are. The member for Murdoch has made an allegation. I do not think that is the case. If people have walked off the job, we will not deny prisoners lifesaving medication. Dr J.M. Woollard: The difference in salary is between the prison nurses and the agency nurses. The prison nurses believe this Government gave a commitment to pay them back pay to July 2001, and it has not kept its promise. More and more prison nurses are leaving and more and more agency nurses are moving into that area. Those agency nurses do not know the prisoners; they do not know their moods - Mr J.A. McGINTY: I can answer that very quickly. Nobody has ever argued that parity should exist between prison nurses and agency nurses. The member for Alfred Cove is the first one to put that claim forward; not even the ANF has put that claim forward. What the member is raising is a load of nonsense and it has no relevance. The figures raised by the member for Murdoch about the back pay and the payments for agency nurses do not sound right, but I will obtain more information. I make this simple request: if members are interested in answers to detailed questions, such as the amount of money that has been spent in a particular area, they should provide some notice and I will happily provide the information.
Mr M.F. Board: It does not look that way. Mr J.A. McGINTY: I will explain it. There is no dispute. We have agreed to pay back-pay to 1 June this year, the date on which the previous agreement covering the enterprise bargaining agreement for nurses working in prisons expired. We have gone back to the starting date of the agreement and have said that it will apply from that date. The first issue of parity has been achieved; the second issue is back pay, and we have agreed to date the offer from the expiry of the old agreement. The nub of the disagreement is for the 12 months going back through most of 2001 and into this year. Dr J.M. Woollard interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: I will answer this question first. I am happy to take interjections. I am told that an offer has never been made to the ANF to backdate this particular pay rise into the time of the previous agreement. Furthermore, that will not happen. So, if I have a simple message for the nurses, it is this: they have achieved parity; they have been offered back pay to 1 June this year, which is some five-and-a-half months; and under no circumstances will we agree to pay back-pay for a further 12 months into last year. Today I spoke to a few nurses who were here and I explained the position to them. I said that I had never seen evidence of an offer to prison nurses to backdate the payments to 15 or 18 months ago, and such a situation would be contrary to my instructions from the Department of Justice. Mr M.F. Board: Have you seen the circular to which I have referred? Mr J.A. McGINTY: There is a general administrative circular dealing with another issue - Dr J.M. Woollard interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: I will make this point and then I will come back to the point raised by the member for Alfred Cove. Today when I was talking to these nurses, they said that historically there had been times when prison nurses were paid more than hospital nurses, and I said that was right. When they entered into an agreement, they signed it and they should honour that agreement. They are now trying to renegotiate an agreement that was signed off by the ANF and get an increase in pay for a period going back 18 months. We will not agree to it. We will honour the EBA that we signed - I think the Opposition signed it - covering that period. The new rates - the parity - will be backdated to the date on which that agreement expired. As part of my very significant experience in negotiating wages and working conditions on behalf of union members in this State, I am not familiar with the concept of allowing retrospectivity back into the life of a pre-existing agreement. I am not saying it has never happened, but I do not know that it has ever happened. Does any member have any knowledge of that happening? Never! We will not do it; it is not something that we have ever offered to the nurses. The best thing I can suggest to the prison nurses is that they have got parity and they have got a significant amount of back pay; therefore, they should get back to work and do their job, and they should do that as soon as possible because their actions are serving no purpose. Mr M.F. Board: Someone should have been honest with them and up-front about their position. It has taken a long time for them to be told. They were told, with circulars in hand, that they would receive parity from July 2001, because they came within the ANF and they were covered under those arrangements and it would be only a matter of time before the Government brought all the EBAs together. That is their understanding, and that is why they are so passionate about the matter. Mr J.A. McGINTY: From time to time people have understandings; sometimes they are not correct. I watched very closely as the Minister for Health resolved the nurses pay rise issue in the government hospital area. It was always my understanding from being very close to those negotiations that they would flow on to the prison nurses when their agreement expired, which was on 1 June this year. Whether other people have a different understanding, a misunderstanding or whatever, I cannot make it any clearer than to say that two of the three issues that this strike is allegedly about have been resolved. We have not agreed to that 12-month period of back pay going back into the life of the previous agreement, and we will not be paying back-pay for that other period. There is no point in them - Mr M.F. Board: Will you address the prison officer issue? Allegations have been made that prison officers are dispensing and administering drugs within the prison system. Mr J.A. McGINTY: Had the member given me some notice of that question, I would have been able to give a very straightforward answer. Mr M.F. Board: Are you prepared to tell us what the situation is? Mr J.A. McGINTY: Absolutely. I am happy to investigate that matter. Obviously we have prisoners who enjoy worse health than people in the general community; they need to get their medications. If nurses are not doing what they are paid and employed to do in the hospitals, we will not deny prisoners their prescribed medications. Mr M.F. Board interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: I am not sure that they are. The member for Murdoch has made an allegation. I do not think that is the case. If people have walked off the job, we will not deny prisoners lifesaving medication. Dr J.M. Woollard: The difference in salary is between the prison nurses and the agency nurses. The prison nurses believe this Government gave a commitment to pay them back pay to July 2001, and it has not kept its promise. More and more prison nurses are leaving and more and more agency nurses are moving into that area. Those agency nurses do not know the prisoners; they do not know their moods - Mr J.A. McGINTY: I can answer that very quickly. Nobody has ever argued that parity should exist between prison nurses and agency nurses. The member for Alfred Cove is the first one to put that claim forward; not even the ANF has put that claim forward. What the member is raising is a load of nonsense and it has no relevance. The figures raised by the member for Murdoch about the back pay and the payments for agency nurses do not sound right, but I will obtain more information. I make this simple request: if members are interested in answers to detailed questions, such as the amount of money that has been spent in a particular area, they should provide some notice and I will happily provide the information.
Mr J.A. McGINTY: I will explain it. There is no dispute. We have agreed to pay back-pay to 1 June this year, the date on which the previous agreement covering the enterprise bargaining agreement for nurses working in prisons expired. We have gone back to the starting date of the agreement and have said that it will apply from that date. The first issue of parity has been achieved; the second issue is back pay, and we have agreed to date the offer from the expiry of the old agreement. The nub of the disagreement is for the 12 months going back through most of 2001 and into this year. Dr J.M. Woollard interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: I will answer this question first. I am happy to take interjections. I am told that an offer has never been made to the ANF to backdate this particular pay rise into the time of the previous agreement. Furthermore, that will not happen. So, if I have a simple message for the nurses, it is this: they have achieved parity; they have been offered back pay to 1 June this year, which is some five-and-a-half months; and under no circumstances will we agree to pay back-pay for a further 12 months into last year. Today I spoke to a few nurses who were here and I explained the position to them. I said that I had never seen evidence of an offer to prison nurses to backdate the payments to 15 or 18 months ago, and such a situation would be contrary to my instructions from the Department of Justice. Mr M.F. Board: Have you seen the circular to which I have referred? Mr J.A. McGINTY: There is a general administrative circular dealing with another issue - Dr J.M. Woollard interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: I will make this point and then I will come back to the point raised by the member for Alfred Cove. Today when I was talking to these nurses, they said that historically there had been times when prison nurses were paid more than hospital nurses, and I said that was right. When they entered into an agreement, they signed it and they should honour that agreement. They are now trying to renegotiate an agreement that was signed off by the ANF and get an increase in pay for a period going back 18 months. We will not agree to it. We will honour the EBA that we signed - I think the Opposition signed it - covering that period. The new rates - the parity - will be backdated to the date on which that agreement expired. As part of my very significant experience in negotiating wages and working conditions on behalf of union members in this State, I am not familiar with the concept of allowing retrospectivity back into the life of a pre-existing agreement. I am not saying it has never happened, but I do not know that it has ever happened. Does any member have any knowledge of that happening? Never! We will not do it; it is not something that we have ever offered to the nurses. The best thing I can suggest to the prison nurses is that they have got parity and they have got a significant amount of back pay; therefore, they should get back to work and do their job, and they should do that as soon as possible because their actions are serving no purpose. Mr M.F. Board: Someone should have been honest with them and up-front about their position. It has taken a long time for them to be told. They were told, with circulars in hand, that they would receive parity from July 2001, because they came within the ANF and they were covered under those arrangements and it would be only a matter of time before the Government brought all the EBAs together. That is their understanding, and that is why they are so passionate about the matter. Mr J.A. McGINTY: From time to time people have understandings; sometimes they are not correct. I watched very closely as the Minister for Health resolved the nurses pay rise issue in the government hospital area. It was always my understanding from being very close to those negotiations that they would flow on to the prison nurses when their agreement expired, which was on 1 June this year. Whether other people have a different understanding, a misunderstanding or whatever, I cannot make it any clearer than to say that two of the three issues that this strike is allegedly about have been resolved. We have not agreed to that 12-month period of back pay going back into the life of the previous agreement, and we will not be paying back-pay for that other period. There is no point in them - Mr M.F. Board: Will you address the prison officer issue? Allegations have been made that prison officers are dispensing and administering drugs within the prison system. Mr J.A. McGINTY: Had the member given me some notice of that question, I would have been able to give a very straightforward answer. Mr M.F. Board: Are you prepared to tell us what the situation is? Mr J.A. McGINTY: Absolutely. I am happy to investigate that matter. Obviously we have prisoners who enjoy worse health than people in the general community; they need to get their medications. If nurses are not doing what they are paid and employed to do in the hospitals, we will not deny prisoners their prescribed medications. Mr M.F. Board interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: I am not sure that they are. The member for Murdoch has made an allegation. I do not think that is the case. If people have walked off the job, we will not deny prisoners lifesaving medication. Dr J.M. Woollard: The difference in salary is between the prison nurses and the agency nurses. The prison nurses believe this Government gave a commitment to pay them back pay to July 2001, and it has not kept its promise. More and more prison nurses are leaving and more and more agency nurses are moving into that area. Those agency nurses do not know the prisoners; they do not know their moods - Mr J.A. McGINTY: I can answer that very quickly. Nobody has ever argued that parity should exist between prison nurses and agency nurses. The member for Alfred Cove is the first one to put that claim forward; not even the ANF has put that claim forward. What the member is raising is a load of nonsense and it has no relevance. The figures raised by the member for Murdoch about the back pay and the payments for agency nurses do not sound right, but I will obtain more information. I make this simple request: if members are interested in answers to detailed questions, such as the amount of money that has been spent in a particular area, they should provide some notice and I will happily provide the information.
Dr J.M. Woollard interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: I will answer this question first. I am happy to take interjections. I am told that an offer has never been made to the ANF to backdate this particular pay rise into the time of the previous agreement. Furthermore, that will not happen. So, if I have a simple message for the nurses, it is this: they have achieved parity; they have been offered back pay to 1 June this year, which is some five-and-a-half months; and under no circumstances will we agree to pay back-pay for a further 12 months into last year. Today I spoke to a few nurses who were here and I explained the position to them. I said that I had never seen evidence of an offer to prison nurses to backdate the payments to 15 or 18 months ago, and such a situation would be contrary to my instructions from the Department of Justice. Mr M.F. Board: Have you seen the circular to which I have referred? Mr J.A. McGINTY: There is a general administrative circular dealing with another issue - Dr J.M. Woollard interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: I will make this point and then I will come back to the point raised by the member for Alfred Cove. Today when I was talking to these nurses, they said that historically there had been times when prison nurses were paid more than hospital nurses, and I said that was right. When they entered into an agreement, they signed it and they should honour that agreement. They are now trying to renegotiate an agreement that was signed off by the ANF and get an increase in pay for a period going back 18 months. We will not agree to it. We will honour the EBA that we signed - I think the Opposition signed it - covering that period. The new rates - the parity - will be backdated to the date on which that agreement expired. As part of my very significant experience in negotiating wages and working conditions on behalf of union members in this State, I am not familiar with the concept of allowing retrospectivity back into the life of a pre-existing agreement. I am not saying it has never happened, but I do not know that it has ever happened. Does any member have any knowledge of that happening? Never! We will not do it; it is not something that we have ever offered to the nurses. The best thing I can suggest to the prison nurses is that they have got parity and they have got a significant amount of back pay; therefore, they should get back to work and do their job, and they should do that as soon as possible because their actions are serving no purpose. Mr M.F. Board: Someone should have been honest with them and up-front about their position. It has taken a long time for them to be told. They were told, with circulars in hand, that they would receive parity from July 2001, because they came within the ANF and they were covered under those arrangements and it would be only a matter of time before the Government brought all the EBAs together. That is their understanding, and that is why they are so passionate about the matter. Mr J.A. McGINTY: From time to time people have understandings; sometimes they are not correct. I watched very closely as the Minister for Health resolved the nurses pay rise issue in the government hospital area. It was always my understanding from being very close to those negotiations that they would flow on to the prison nurses when their agreement expired, which was on 1 June this year. Whether other people have a different understanding, a misunderstanding or whatever, I cannot make it any clearer than to say that two of the three issues that this strike is allegedly about have been resolved. We have not agreed to that 12-month period of back pay going back into the life of the previous agreement, and we will not be paying back-pay for that other period. There is no point in them - Mr M.F. Board: Will you address the prison officer issue? Allegations have been made that prison officers are dispensing and administering drugs within the prison system. Mr J.A. McGINTY: Had the member given me some notice of that question, I would have been able to give a very straightforward answer. Mr M.F. Board: Are you prepared to tell us what the situation is? Mr J.A. McGINTY: Absolutely. I am happy to investigate that matter. Obviously we have prisoners who enjoy worse health than people in the general community; they need to get their medications. If nurses are not doing what they are paid and employed to do in the hospitals, we will not deny prisoners their prescribed medications. Mr M.F. Board interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: I am not sure that they are. The member for Murdoch has made an allegation. I do not think that is the case. If people have walked off the job, we will not deny prisoners lifesaving medication. Dr J.M. Woollard: The difference in salary is between the prison nurses and the agency nurses. The prison nurses believe this Government gave a commitment to pay them back pay to July 2001, and it has not kept its promise. More and more prison nurses are leaving and more and more agency nurses are moving into that area. Those agency nurses do not know the prisoners; they do not know their moods - Mr J.A. McGINTY: I can answer that very quickly. Nobody has ever argued that parity should exist between prison nurses and agency nurses. The member for Alfred Cove is the first one to put that claim forward; not even the ANF has put that claim forward. What the member is raising is a load of nonsense and it has no relevance. The figures raised by the member for Murdoch about the back pay and the payments for agency nurses do not sound right, but I will obtain more information. I make this simple request: if members are interested in answers to detailed questions, such as the amount of money that has been spent in a particular area, they should provide some notice and I will happily provide the information.
Mr J.A. McGINTY: I will answer this question first. I am happy to take interjections. I am told that an offer has never been made to the ANF to backdate this particular pay rise into the time of the previous agreement. Furthermore, that will not happen. So, if I have a simple message for the nurses, it is this: they have achieved parity; they have been offered back pay to 1 June this year, which is some five-and-a-half months; and under no circumstances will we agree to pay back-pay for a further 12 months into last year. Today I spoke to a few nurses who were here and I explained the position to them. I said that I had never seen evidence of an offer to prison nurses to backdate the payments to 15 or 18 months ago, and such a situation would be contrary to my instructions from the Department of Justice. Mr M.F. Board: Have you seen the circular to which I have referred? Mr J.A. McGINTY: There is a general administrative circular dealing with another issue - Dr J.M. Woollard interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: I will make this point and then I will come back to the point raised by the member for Alfred Cove. Today when I was talking to these nurses, they said that historically there had been times when prison nurses were paid more than hospital nurses, and I said that was right. When they entered into an agreement, they signed it and they should honour that agreement. They are now trying to renegotiate an agreement that was signed off by the ANF and get an increase in pay for a period going back 18 months. We will not agree to it. We will honour the EBA that we signed - I think the Opposition signed it - covering that period. The new rates - the parity - will be backdated to the date on which that agreement expired. As part of my very significant experience in negotiating wages and working conditions on behalf of union members in this State, I am not familiar with the concept of allowing retrospectivity back into the life of a pre-existing agreement. I am not saying it has never happened, but I do not know that it has ever happened. Does any member have any knowledge of that happening? Never! We will not do it; it is not something that we have ever offered to the nurses. The best thing I can suggest to the prison nurses is that they have got parity and they have got a significant amount of back pay; therefore, they should get back to work and do their job, and they should do that as soon as possible because their actions are serving no purpose. Mr M.F. Board: Someone should have been honest with them and up-front about their position. It has taken a long time for them to be told. They were told, with circulars in hand, that they would receive parity from July 2001, because they came within the ANF and they were covered under those arrangements and it would be only a matter of time before the Government brought all the EBAs together. That is their understanding, and that is why they are so passionate about the matter. Mr J.A. McGINTY: From time to time people have understandings; sometimes they are not correct. I watched very closely as the Minister for Health resolved the nurses pay rise issue in the government hospital area. It was always my understanding from being very close to those negotiations that they would flow on to the prison nurses when their agreement expired, which was on 1 June this year. Whether other people have a different understanding, a misunderstanding or whatever, I cannot make it any clearer than to say that two of the three issues that this strike is allegedly about have been resolved. We have not agreed to that 12-month period of back pay going back into the life of the previous agreement, and we will not be paying back-pay for that other period. There is no point in them - Mr M.F. Board: Will you address the prison officer issue? Allegations have been made that prison officers are dispensing and administering drugs within the prison system. Mr J.A. McGINTY: Had the member given me some notice of that question, I would have been able to give a very straightforward answer. Mr M.F. Board: Are you prepared to tell us what the situation is? Mr J.A. McGINTY: Absolutely. I am happy to investigate that matter. Obviously we have prisoners who enjoy worse health than people in the general community; they need to get their medications. If nurses are not doing what they are paid and employed to do in the hospitals, we will not deny prisoners their prescribed medications. Mr M.F. Board interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: I am not sure that they are. The member for Murdoch has made an allegation. I do not think that is the case. If people have walked off the job, we will not deny prisoners lifesaving medication. Dr J.M. Woollard: The difference in salary is between the prison nurses and the agency nurses. The prison nurses believe this Government gave a commitment to pay them back pay to July 2001, and it has not kept its promise. More and more prison nurses are leaving and more and more agency nurses are moving into that area. Those agency nurses do not know the prisoners; they do not know their moods - Mr J.A. McGINTY: I can answer that very quickly. Nobody has ever argued that parity should exist between prison nurses and agency nurses. The member for Alfred Cove is the first one to put that claim forward; not even the ANF has put that claim forward. What the member is raising is a load of nonsense and it has no relevance. The figures raised by the member for Murdoch about the back pay and the payments for agency nurses do not sound right, but I will obtain more information. I make this simple request: if members are interested in answers to detailed questions, such as the amount of money that has been spent in a particular area, they should provide some notice and I will happily provide the information.
Today I spoke to a few nurses who were here and I explained the position to them. I said that I had never seen evidence of an offer to prison nurses to backdate the payments to 15 or 18 months ago, and such a situation would be contrary to my instructions from the Department of Justice. Mr M.F. Board: Have you seen the circular to which I have referred? Mr J.A. McGINTY: There is a general administrative circular dealing with another issue - Dr J.M. Woollard interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: I will make this point and then I will come back to the point raised by the member for Alfred Cove. Today when I was talking to these nurses, they said that historically there had been times when prison nurses were paid more than hospital nurses, and I said that was right. When they entered into an agreement, they signed it and they should honour that agreement. They are now trying to renegotiate an agreement that was signed off by the ANF and get an increase in pay for a period going back 18 months. We will not agree to it. We will honour the EBA that we signed - I think the Opposition signed it - covering that period. The new rates - the parity - will be backdated to the date on which that agreement expired. As part of my very significant experience in negotiating wages and working conditions on behalf of union members in this State, I am not familiar with the concept of allowing retrospectivity back into the life of a pre-existing agreement. I am not saying it has never happened, but I do not know that it has ever happened. Does any member have any knowledge of that happening? Never! We will not do it; it is not something that we have ever offered to the nurses. The best thing I can suggest to the prison nurses is that they have got parity and they have got a significant amount of back pay; therefore, they should get back to work and do their job, and they should do that as soon as possible because their actions are serving no purpose. Mr M.F. Board: Someone should have been honest with them and up-front about their position. It has taken a long time for them to be told. They were told, with circulars in hand, that they would receive parity from July 2001, because they came within the ANF and they were covered under those arrangements and it would be only a matter of time before the Government brought all the EBAs together. That is their understanding, and that is why they are so passionate about the matter. Mr J.A. McGINTY: From time to time people have understandings; sometimes they are not correct. I watched very closely as the Minister for Health resolved the nurses pay rise issue in the government hospital area. It was always my understanding from being very close to those negotiations that they would flow on to the prison nurses when their agreement expired, which was on 1 June this year. Whether other people have a different understanding, a misunderstanding or whatever, I cannot make it any clearer than to say that two of the three issues that this strike is allegedly about have been resolved. We have not agreed to that 12-month period of back pay going back into the life of the previous agreement, and we will not be paying back-pay for that other period. There is no point in them - Mr M.F. Board: Will you address the prison officer issue? Allegations have been made that prison officers are dispensing and administering drugs within the prison system. Mr J.A. McGINTY: Had the member given me some notice of that question, I would have been able to give a very straightforward answer. Mr M.F. Board: Are you prepared to tell us what the situation is? Mr J.A. McGINTY: Absolutely. I am happy to investigate that matter. Obviously we have prisoners who enjoy worse health than people in the general community; they need to get their medications. If nurses are not doing what they are paid and employed to do in the hospitals, we will not deny prisoners their prescribed medications. Mr M.F. Board interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: I am not sure that they are. The member for Murdoch has made an allegation. I do not think that is the case. If people have walked off the job, we will not deny prisoners lifesaving medication. Dr J.M. Woollard: The difference in salary is between the prison nurses and the agency nurses. The prison nurses believe this Government gave a commitment to pay them back pay to July 2001, and it has not kept its promise. More and more prison nurses are leaving and more and more agency nurses are moving into that area. Those agency nurses do not know the prisoners; they do not know their moods - Mr J.A. McGINTY: I can answer that very quickly. Nobody has ever argued that parity should exist between prison nurses and agency nurses. The member for Alfred Cove is the first one to put that claim forward; not even the ANF has put that claim forward. What the member is raising is a load of nonsense and it has no relevance. The figures raised by the member for Murdoch about the back pay and the payments for agency nurses do not sound right, but I will obtain more information. I make this simple request: if members are interested in answers to detailed questions, such as the amount of money that has been spent in a particular area, they should provide some notice and I will happily provide the information.
Mr M.F. Board: Have you seen the circular to which I have referred? Mr J.A. McGINTY: There is a general administrative circular dealing with another issue - Dr J.M. Woollard interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: I will make this point and then I will come back to the point raised by the member for Alfred Cove. Today when I was talking to these nurses, they said that historically there had been times when prison nurses were paid more than hospital nurses, and I said that was right. When they entered into an agreement, they signed it and they should honour that agreement. They are now trying to renegotiate an agreement that was signed off by the ANF and get an increase in pay for a period going back 18 months. We will not agree to it. We will honour the EBA that we signed - I think the Opposition signed it - covering that period. The new rates - the parity - will be backdated to the date on which that agreement expired. As part of my very significant experience in negotiating wages and working conditions on behalf of union members in this State, I am not familiar with the concept of allowing retrospectivity back into the life of a pre-existing agreement. I am not saying it has never happened, but I do not know that it has ever happened. Does any member have any knowledge of that happening? Never! We will not do it; it is not something that we have ever offered to the nurses. The best thing I can suggest to the prison nurses is that they have got parity and they have got a significant amount of back pay; therefore, they should get back to work and do their job, and they should do that as soon as possible because their actions are serving no purpose. Mr M.F. Board: Someone should have been honest with them and up-front about their position. It has taken a long time for them to be told. They were told, with circulars in hand, that they would receive parity from July 2001, because they came within the ANF and they were covered under those arrangements and it would be only a matter of time before the Government brought all the EBAs together. That is their understanding, and that is why they are so passionate about the matter. Mr J.A. McGINTY: From time to time people have understandings; sometimes they are not correct. I watched very closely as the Minister for Health resolved the nurses pay rise issue in the government hospital area. It was always my understanding from being very close to those negotiations that they would flow on to the prison nurses when their agreement expired, which was on 1 June this year. Whether other people have a different understanding, a misunderstanding or whatever, I cannot make it any clearer than to say that two of the three issues that this strike is allegedly about have been resolved. We have not agreed to that 12-month period of back pay going back into the life of the previous agreement, and we will not be paying back-pay for that other period. There is no point in them - Mr M.F. Board: Will you address the prison officer issue? Allegations have been made that prison officers are dispensing and administering drugs within the prison system. Mr J.A. McGINTY: Had the member given me some notice of that question, I would have been able to give a very straightforward answer. Mr M.F. Board: Are you prepared to tell us what the situation is? Mr J.A. McGINTY: Absolutely. I am happy to investigate that matter. Obviously we have prisoners who enjoy worse health than people in the general community; they need to get their medications. If nurses are not doing what they are paid and employed to do in the hospitals, we will not deny prisoners their prescribed medications. Mr M.F. Board interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: I am not sure that they are. The member for Murdoch has made an allegation. I do not think that is the case. If people have walked off the job, we will not deny prisoners lifesaving medication. Dr J.M. Woollard: The difference in salary is between the prison nurses and the agency nurses. The prison nurses believe this Government gave a commitment to pay them back pay to July 2001, and it has not kept its promise. More and more prison nurses are leaving and more and more agency nurses are moving into that area. Those agency nurses do not know the prisoners; they do not know their moods - Mr J.A. McGINTY: I can answer that very quickly. Nobody has ever argued that parity should exist between prison nurses and agency nurses. The member for Alfred Cove is the first one to put that claim forward; not even the ANF has put that claim forward. What the member is raising is a load of nonsense and it has no relevance. The figures raised by the member for Murdoch about the back pay and the payments for agency nurses do not sound right, but I will obtain more information. I make this simple request: if members are interested in answers to detailed questions, such as the amount of money that has been spent in a particular area, they should provide some notice and I will happily provide the information.
Mr J.A. McGINTY: There is a general administrative circular dealing with another issue - Dr J.M. Woollard interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: I will make this point and then I will come back to the point raised by the member for Alfred Cove. Today when I was talking to these nurses, they said that historically there had been times when prison nurses were paid more than hospital nurses, and I said that was right. When they entered into an agreement, they signed it and they should honour that agreement. They are now trying to renegotiate an agreement that was signed off by the ANF and get an increase in pay for a period going back 18 months. We will not agree to it. We will honour the EBA that we signed - I think the Opposition signed it - covering that period. The new rates - the parity - will be backdated to the date on which that agreement expired. As part of my very significant experience in negotiating wages and working conditions on behalf of union members in this State, I am not familiar with the concept of allowing retrospectivity back into the life of a pre-existing agreement. I am not saying it has never happened, but I do not know that it has ever happened. Does any member have any knowledge of that happening? Never! We will not do it; it is not something that we have ever offered to the nurses. The best thing I can suggest to the prison nurses is that they have got parity and they have got a significant amount of back pay; therefore, they should get back to work and do their job, and they should do that as soon as possible because their actions are serving no purpose. Mr M.F. Board: Someone should have been honest with them and up-front about their position. It has taken a long time for them to be told. They were told, with circulars in hand, that they would receive parity from July 2001, because they came within the ANF and they were covered under those arrangements and it would be only a matter of time before the Government brought all the EBAs together. That is their understanding, and that is why they are so passionate about the matter. Mr J.A. McGINTY: From time to time people have understandings; sometimes they are not correct. I watched very closely as the Minister for Health resolved the nurses pay rise issue in the government hospital area. It was always my understanding from being very close to those negotiations that they would flow on to the prison nurses when their agreement expired, which was on 1 June this year. Whether other people have a different understanding, a misunderstanding or whatever, I cannot make it any clearer than to say that two of the three issues that this strike is allegedly about have been resolved. We have not agreed to that 12-month period of back pay going back into the life of the previous agreement, and we will not be paying back-pay for that other period. There is no point in them - Mr M.F. Board: Will you address the prison officer issue? Allegations have been made that prison officers are dispensing and administering drugs within the prison system. Mr J.A. McGINTY: Had the member given me some notice of that question, I would have been able to give a very straightforward answer. Mr M.F. Board: Are you prepared to tell us what the situation is? Mr J.A. McGINTY: Absolutely. I am happy to investigate that matter. Obviously we have prisoners who enjoy worse health than people in the general community; they need to get their medications. If nurses are not doing what they are paid and employed to do in the hospitals, we will not deny prisoners their prescribed medications. Mr M.F. Board interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: I am not sure that they are. The member for Murdoch has made an allegation. I do not think that is the case. If people have walked off the job, we will not deny prisoners lifesaving medication. Dr J.M. Woollard: The difference in salary is between the prison nurses and the agency nurses. The prison nurses believe this Government gave a commitment to pay them back pay to July 2001, and it has not kept its promise. More and more prison nurses are leaving and more and more agency nurses are moving into that area. Those agency nurses do not know the prisoners; they do not know their moods - Mr J.A. McGINTY: I can answer that very quickly. Nobody has ever argued that parity should exist between prison nurses and agency nurses. The member for Alfred Cove is the first one to put that claim forward; not even the ANF has put that claim forward. What the member is raising is a load of nonsense and it has no relevance. The figures raised by the member for Murdoch about the back pay and the payments for agency nurses do not sound right, but I will obtain more information. I make this simple request: if members are interested in answers to detailed questions, such as the amount of money that has been spent in a particular area, they should provide some notice and I will happily provide the information.
Dr J.M. Woollard interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: I will make this point and then I will come back to the point raised by the member for Alfred Cove. Today when I was talking to these nurses, they said that historically there had been times when prison nurses were paid more than hospital nurses, and I said that was right. When they entered into an agreement, they signed it and they should honour that agreement. They are now trying to renegotiate an agreement that was signed off by the ANF and get an increase in pay for a period going back 18 months. We will not agree to it. We will honour the EBA that we signed - I think the Opposition signed it - covering that period. The new rates - the parity - will be backdated to the date on which that agreement expired. As part of my very significant experience in negotiating wages and working conditions on behalf of union members in this State, I am not familiar with the concept of allowing retrospectivity back into the life of a pre-existing agreement. I am not saying it has never happened, but I do not know that it has ever happened. Does any member have any knowledge of that happening? Never! We will not do it; it is not something that we have ever offered to the nurses. The best thing I can suggest to the prison nurses is that they have got parity and they have got a significant amount of back pay; therefore, they should get back to work and do their job, and they should do that as soon as possible because their actions are serving no purpose. Mr M.F. Board: Someone should have been honest with them and up-front about their position. It has taken a long time for them to be told. They were told, with circulars in hand, that they would receive parity from July 2001, because they came within the ANF and they were covered under those arrangements and it would be only a matter of time before the Government brought all the EBAs together. That is their understanding, and that is why they are so passionate about the matter. Mr J.A. McGINTY: From time to time people have understandings; sometimes they are not correct. I watched very closely as the Minister for Health resolved the nurses pay rise issue in the government hospital area. It was always my understanding from being very close to those negotiations that they would flow on to the prison nurses when their agreement expired, which was on 1 June this year. Whether other people have a different understanding, a misunderstanding or whatever, I cannot make it any clearer than to say that two of the three issues that this strike is allegedly about have been resolved. We have not agreed to that 12-month period of back pay going back into the life of the previous agreement, and we will not be paying back-pay for that other period. There is no point in them - Mr M.F. Board: Will you address the prison officer issue? Allegations have been made that prison officers are dispensing and administering drugs within the prison system. Mr J.A. McGINTY: Had the member given me some notice of that question, I would have been able to give a very straightforward answer. Mr M.F. Board: Are you prepared to tell us what the situation is? Mr J.A. McGINTY: Absolutely. I am happy to investigate that matter. Obviously we have prisoners who enjoy worse health than people in the general community; they need to get their medications. If nurses are not doing what they are paid and employed to do in the hospitals, we will not deny prisoners their prescribed medications. Mr M.F. Board interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: I am not sure that they are. The member for Murdoch has made an allegation. I do not think that is the case. If people have walked off the job, we will not deny prisoners lifesaving medication. Dr J.M. Woollard: The difference in salary is between the prison nurses and the agency nurses. The prison nurses believe this Government gave a commitment to pay them back pay to July 2001, and it has not kept its promise. More and more prison nurses are leaving and more and more agency nurses are moving into that area. Those agency nurses do not know the prisoners; they do not know their moods - Mr J.A. McGINTY: I can answer that very quickly. Nobody has ever argued that parity should exist between prison nurses and agency nurses. The member for Alfred Cove is the first one to put that claim forward; not even the ANF has put that claim forward. What the member is raising is a load of nonsense and it has no relevance. The figures raised by the member for Murdoch about the back pay and the payments for agency nurses do not sound right, but I will obtain more information. I make this simple request: if members are interested in answers to detailed questions, such as the amount of money that has been spent in a particular area, they should provide some notice and I will happily provide the information.
Mr J.A. McGINTY: I will make this point and then I will come back to the point raised by the member for Alfred Cove. Today when I was talking to these nurses, they said that historically there had been times when prison nurses were paid more than hospital nurses, and I said that was right. When they entered into an agreement, they signed it and they should honour that agreement. They are now trying to renegotiate an agreement that was signed off by the ANF and get an increase in pay for a period going back 18 months. We will not agree to it. We will honour the EBA that we signed - I think the Opposition signed it - covering that period. The new rates - the parity - will be backdated to the date on which that agreement expired. As part of my very significant experience in negotiating wages and working conditions on behalf of union members in this State, I am not familiar with the concept of allowing retrospectivity back into the life of a pre-existing agreement. I am not saying it has never happened, but I do not know that it has ever happened. Does any member have any knowledge of that happening? Never! We will not do it; it is not something that we have ever offered to the nurses. The best thing I can suggest to the prison nurses is that they have got parity and they have got a significant amount of back pay; therefore, they should get back to work and do their job, and they should do that as soon as possible because their actions are serving no purpose. Mr M.F. Board: Someone should have been honest with them and up-front about their position. It has taken a long time for them to be told. They were told, with circulars in hand, that they would receive parity from July 2001, because they came within the ANF and they were covered under those arrangements and it would be only a matter of time before the Government brought all the EBAs together. That is their understanding, and that is why they are so passionate about the matter. Mr J.A. McGINTY: From time to time people have understandings; sometimes they are not correct. I watched very closely as the Minister for Health resolved the nurses pay rise issue in the government hospital area. It was always my understanding from being very close to those negotiations that they would flow on to the prison nurses when their agreement expired, which was on 1 June this year. Whether other people have a different understanding, a misunderstanding or whatever, I cannot make it any clearer than to say that two of the three issues that this strike is allegedly about have been resolved. We have not agreed to that 12-month period of back pay going back into the life of the previous agreement, and we will not be paying back-pay for that other period. There is no point in them - Mr M.F. Board: Will you address the prison officer issue? Allegations have been made that prison officers are dispensing and administering drugs within the prison system. Mr J.A. McGINTY: Had the member given me some notice of that question, I would have been able to give a very straightforward answer. Mr M.F. Board: Are you prepared to tell us what the situation is? Mr J.A. McGINTY: Absolutely. I am happy to investigate that matter. Obviously we have prisoners who enjoy worse health than people in the general community; they need to get their medications. If nurses are not doing what they are paid and employed to do in the hospitals, we will not deny prisoners their prescribed medications. Mr M.F. Board interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: I am not sure that they are. The member for Murdoch has made an allegation. I do not think that is the case. If people have walked off the job, we will not deny prisoners lifesaving medication. Dr J.M. Woollard: The difference in salary is between the prison nurses and the agency nurses. The prison nurses believe this Government gave a commitment to pay them back pay to July 2001, and it has not kept its promise. More and more prison nurses are leaving and more and more agency nurses are moving into that area. Those agency nurses do not know the prisoners; they do not know their moods - Mr J.A. McGINTY: I can answer that very quickly. Nobody has ever argued that parity should exist between prison nurses and agency nurses. The member for Alfred Cove is the first one to put that claim forward; not even the ANF has put that claim forward. What the member is raising is a load of nonsense and it has no relevance. The figures raised by the member for Murdoch about the back pay and the payments for agency nurses do not sound right, but I will obtain more information. I make this simple request: if members are interested in answers to detailed questions, such as the amount of money that has been spent in a particular area, they should provide some notice and I will happily provide the information.
Mr M.F. Board: Someone should have been honest with them and up-front about their position. It has taken a long time for them to be told. They were told, with circulars in hand, that they would receive parity from July 2001, because they came within the ANF and they were covered under those arrangements and it would be only a matter of time before the Government brought all the EBAs together. That is their understanding, and that is why they are so passionate about the matter. Mr J.A. McGINTY: From time to time people have understandings; sometimes they are not correct. I watched very closely as the Minister for Health resolved the nurses pay rise issue in the government hospital area. It was always my understanding from being very close to those negotiations that they would flow on to the prison nurses when their agreement expired, which was on 1 June this year. Whether other people have a different understanding, a misunderstanding or whatever, I cannot make it any clearer than to say that two of the three issues that this strike is allegedly about have been resolved. We have not agreed to that 12-month period of back pay going back into the life of the previous agreement, and we will not be paying back-pay for that other period. There is no point in them - Mr M.F. Board: Will you address the prison officer issue? Allegations have been made that prison officers are dispensing and administering drugs within the prison system. Mr J.A. McGINTY: Had the member given me some notice of that question, I would have been able to give a very straightforward answer. Mr M.F. Board: Are you prepared to tell us what the situation is? Mr J.A. McGINTY: Absolutely. I am happy to investigate that matter. Obviously we have prisoners who enjoy worse health than people in the general community; they need to get their medications. If nurses are not doing what they are paid and employed to do in the hospitals, we will not deny prisoners their prescribed medications. Mr M.F. Board interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: I am not sure that they are. The member for Murdoch has made an allegation. I do not think that is the case. If people have walked off the job, we will not deny prisoners lifesaving medication. Dr J.M. Woollard: The difference in salary is between the prison nurses and the agency nurses. The prison nurses believe this Government gave a commitment to pay them back pay to July 2001, and it has not kept its promise. More and more prison nurses are leaving and more and more agency nurses are moving into that area. Those agency nurses do not know the prisoners; they do not know their moods - Mr J.A. McGINTY: I can answer that very quickly. Nobody has ever argued that parity should exist between prison nurses and agency nurses. The member for Alfred Cove is the first one to put that claim forward; not even the ANF has put that claim forward. What the member is raising is a load of nonsense and it has no relevance. The figures raised by the member for Murdoch about the back pay and the payments for agency nurses do not sound right, but I will obtain more information. I make this simple request: if members are interested in answers to detailed questions, such as the amount of money that has been spent in a particular area, they should provide some notice and I will happily provide the information.
Mr J.A. McGINTY: From time to time people have understandings; sometimes they are not correct. I watched very closely as the Minister for Health resolved the nurses pay rise issue in the government hospital area. It was always my understanding from being very close to those negotiations that they would flow on to the prison nurses when their agreement expired, which was on 1 June this year. Whether other people have a different understanding, a misunderstanding or whatever, I cannot make it any clearer than to say that two of the three issues that this strike is allegedly about have been resolved. We have not agreed to that 12-month period of back pay going back into the life of the previous agreement, and we will not be paying back-pay for that other period. There is no point in them - Mr M.F. Board: Will you address the prison officer issue? Allegations have been made that prison officers are dispensing and administering drugs within the prison system. Mr J.A. McGINTY: Had the member given me some notice of that question, I would have been able to give a very straightforward answer. Mr M.F. Board: Are you prepared to tell us what the situation is? Mr J.A. McGINTY: Absolutely. I am happy to investigate that matter. Obviously we have prisoners who enjoy worse health than people in the general community; they need to get their medications. If nurses are not doing what they are paid and employed to do in the hospitals, we will not deny prisoners their prescribed medications. Mr M.F. Board interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: I am not sure that they are. The member for Murdoch has made an allegation. I do not think that is the case. If people have walked off the job, we will not deny prisoners lifesaving medication. Dr J.M. Woollard: The difference in salary is between the prison nurses and the agency nurses. The prison nurses believe this Government gave a commitment to pay them back pay to July 2001, and it has not kept its promise. More and more prison nurses are leaving and more and more agency nurses are moving into that area. Those agency nurses do not know the prisoners; they do not know their moods - Mr J.A. McGINTY: I can answer that very quickly. Nobody has ever argued that parity should exist between prison nurses and agency nurses. The member for Alfred Cove is the first one to put that claim forward; not even the ANF has put that claim forward. What the member is raising is a load of nonsense and it has no relevance. The figures raised by the member for Murdoch about the back pay and the payments for agency nurses do not sound right, but I will obtain more information. I make this simple request: if members are interested in answers to detailed questions, such as the amount of money that has been spent in a particular area, they should provide some notice and I will happily provide the information.
Mr M.F. Board: Will you address the prison officer issue? Allegations have been made that prison officers are dispensing and administering drugs within the prison system. Mr J.A. McGINTY: Had the member given me some notice of that question, I would have been able to give a very straightforward answer. Mr M.F. Board: Are you prepared to tell us what the situation is? Mr J.A. McGINTY: Absolutely. I am happy to investigate that matter. Obviously we have prisoners who enjoy worse health than people in the general community; they need to get their medications. If nurses are not doing what they are paid and employed to do in the hospitals, we will not deny prisoners their prescribed medications. Mr M.F. Board interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: I am not sure that they are. The member for Murdoch has made an allegation. I do not think that is the case. If people have walked off the job, we will not deny prisoners lifesaving medication. Dr J.M. Woollard: The difference in salary is between the prison nurses and the agency nurses. The prison nurses believe this Government gave a commitment to pay them back pay to July 2001, and it has not kept its promise. More and more prison nurses are leaving and more and more agency nurses are moving into that area. Those agency nurses do not know the prisoners; they do not know their moods - Mr J.A. McGINTY: I can answer that very quickly. Nobody has ever argued that parity should exist between prison nurses and agency nurses. The member for Alfred Cove is the first one to put that claim forward; not even the ANF has put that claim forward. What the member is raising is a load of nonsense and it has no relevance. The figures raised by the member for Murdoch about the back pay and the payments for agency nurses do not sound right, but I will obtain more information. I make this simple request: if members are interested in answers to detailed questions, such as the amount of money that has been spent in a particular area, they should provide some notice and I will happily provide the information.
Mr J.A. McGINTY: Had the member given me some notice of that question, I would have been able to give a very straightforward answer. Mr M.F. Board: Are you prepared to tell us what the situation is? Mr J.A. McGINTY: Absolutely. I am happy to investigate that matter. Obviously we have prisoners who enjoy worse health than people in the general community; they need to get their medications. If nurses are not doing what they are paid and employed to do in the hospitals, we will not deny prisoners their prescribed medications. Mr M.F. Board interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: I am not sure that they are. The member for Murdoch has made an allegation. I do not think that is the case. If people have walked off the job, we will not deny prisoners lifesaving medication. Dr J.M. Woollard: The difference in salary is between the prison nurses and the agency nurses. The prison nurses believe this Government gave a commitment to pay them back pay to July 2001, and it has not kept its promise. More and more prison nurses are leaving and more and more agency nurses are moving into that area. Those agency nurses do not know the prisoners; they do not know their moods - Mr J.A. McGINTY: I can answer that very quickly. Nobody has ever argued that parity should exist between prison nurses and agency nurses. The member for Alfred Cove is the first one to put that claim forward; not even the ANF has put that claim forward. What the member is raising is a load of nonsense and it has no relevance. The figures raised by the member for Murdoch about the back pay and the payments for agency nurses do not sound right, but I will obtain more information. I make this simple request: if members are interested in answers to detailed questions, such as the amount of money that has been spent in a particular area, they should provide some notice and I will happily provide the information.
Mr M.F. Board: Are you prepared to tell us what the situation is? Mr J.A. McGINTY: Absolutely. I am happy to investigate that matter. Obviously we have prisoners who enjoy worse health than people in the general community; they need to get their medications. If nurses are not doing what they are paid and employed to do in the hospitals, we will not deny prisoners their prescribed medications. Mr M.F. Board interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: I am not sure that they are. The member for Murdoch has made an allegation. I do not think that is the case. If people have walked off the job, we will not deny prisoners lifesaving medication. Dr J.M. Woollard: The difference in salary is between the prison nurses and the agency nurses. The prison nurses believe this Government gave a commitment to pay them back pay to July 2001, and it has not kept its promise. More and more prison nurses are leaving and more and more agency nurses are moving into that area. Those agency nurses do not know the prisoners; they do not know their moods - Mr J.A. McGINTY: I can answer that very quickly. Nobody has ever argued that parity should exist between prison nurses and agency nurses. The member for Alfred Cove is the first one to put that claim forward; not even the ANF has put that claim forward. What the member is raising is a load of nonsense and it has no relevance. The figures raised by the member for Murdoch about the back pay and the payments for agency nurses do not sound right, but I will obtain more information. I make this simple request: if members are interested in answers to detailed questions, such as the amount of money that has been spent in a particular area, they should provide some notice and I will happily provide the information.
Mr J.A. McGINTY: Absolutely. I am happy to investigate that matter. Obviously we have prisoners who enjoy worse health than people in the general community; they need to get their medications. If nurses are not doing what they are paid and employed to do in the hospitals, we will not deny prisoners their prescribed medications. Mr M.F. Board interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: I am not sure that they are. The member for Murdoch has made an allegation. I do not think that is the case. If people have walked off the job, we will not deny prisoners lifesaving medication. Dr J.M. Woollard: The difference in salary is between the prison nurses and the agency nurses. The prison nurses believe this Government gave a commitment to pay them back pay to July 2001, and it has not kept its promise. More and more prison nurses are leaving and more and more agency nurses are moving into that area. Those agency nurses do not know the prisoners; they do not know their moods - Mr J.A. McGINTY: I can answer that very quickly. Nobody has ever argued that parity should exist between prison nurses and agency nurses. The member for Alfred Cove is the first one to put that claim forward; not even the ANF has put that claim forward. What the member is raising is a load of nonsense and it has no relevance. The figures raised by the member for Murdoch about the back pay and the payments for agency nurses do not sound right, but I will obtain more information. I make this simple request: if members are interested in answers to detailed questions, such as the amount of money that has been spent in a particular area, they should provide some notice and I will happily provide the information.
Mr M.F. Board interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: I am not sure that they are. The member for Murdoch has made an allegation. I do not think that is the case. If people have walked off the job, we will not deny prisoners lifesaving medication. Dr J.M. Woollard: The difference in salary is between the prison nurses and the agency nurses. The prison nurses believe this Government gave a commitment to pay them back pay to July 2001, and it has not kept its promise. More and more prison nurses are leaving and more and more agency nurses are moving into that area. Those agency nurses do not know the prisoners; they do not know their moods - Mr J.A. McGINTY: I can answer that very quickly. Nobody has ever argued that parity should exist between prison nurses and agency nurses. The member for Alfred Cove is the first one to put that claim forward; not even the ANF has put that claim forward. What the member is raising is a load of nonsense and it has no relevance. The figures raised by the member for Murdoch about the back pay and the payments for agency nurses do not sound right, but I will obtain more information. I make this simple request: if members are interested in answers to detailed questions, such as the amount of money that has been spent in a particular area, they should provide some notice and I will happily provide the information.
Mr J.A. McGINTY: I am not sure that they are. The member for Murdoch has made an allegation. I do not think that is the case. If people have walked off the job, we will not deny prisoners lifesaving medication. Dr J.M. Woollard: The difference in salary is between the prison nurses and the agency nurses. The prison nurses believe this Government gave a commitment to pay them back pay to July 2001, and it has not kept its promise. More and more prison nurses are leaving and more and more agency nurses are moving into that area. Those agency nurses do not know the prisoners; they do not know their moods - Mr J.A. McGINTY: I can answer that very quickly. Nobody has ever argued that parity should exist between prison nurses and agency nurses. The member for Alfred Cove is the first one to put that claim forward; not even the ANF has put that claim forward. What the member is raising is a load of nonsense and it has no relevance. The figures raised by the member for Murdoch about the back pay and the payments for agency nurses do not sound right, but I will obtain more information. I make this simple request: if members are interested in answers to detailed questions, such as the amount of money that has been spent in a particular area, they should provide some notice and I will happily provide the information.
Dr J.M. Woollard: The difference in salary is between the prison nurses and the agency nurses. The prison nurses believe this Government gave a commitment to pay them back pay to July 2001, and it has not kept its promise. More and more prison nurses are leaving and more and more agency nurses are moving into that area. Those agency nurses do not know the prisoners; they do not know their moods - Mr J.A. McGINTY: I can answer that very quickly. Nobody has ever argued that parity should exist between prison nurses and agency nurses. The member for Alfred Cove is the first one to put that claim forward; not even the ANF has put that claim forward. What the member is raising is a load of nonsense and it has no relevance. The figures raised by the member for Murdoch about the back pay and the payments for agency nurses do not sound right, but I will obtain more information. I make this simple request: if members are interested in answers to detailed questions, such as the amount of money that has been spent in a particular area, they should provide some notice and I will happily provide the information.
Mr J.A. McGINTY: I can answer that very quickly. Nobody has ever argued that parity should exist between prison nurses and agency nurses. The member for Alfred Cove is the first one to put that claim forward; not even the ANF has put that claim forward. What the member is raising is a load of nonsense and it has no relevance. The figures raised by the member for Murdoch about the back pay and the payments for agency nurses do not sound right, but I will obtain more information. I make this simple request: if members are interested in answers to detailed questions, such as the amount of money that has been spent in a particular area, they should provide some notice and I will happily provide the information.
The figures raised by the member for Murdoch about the back pay and the payments for agency nurses do not sound right, but I will obtain more information. I make this simple request: if members are interested in answers to detailed questions, such as the amount of money that has been spent in a particular area, they should provide some notice and I will happily provide the information.
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