❓ Opposition questions the Minister about inconsistent lease policies for bus operators, particularly regarding school bus services, alleging intimidation. The Minister defends the government's actions, highlighting progress made compared to the previous administration.
AnsweredQoN 1291Legislative Assembly
QuestionView source ↗
I refer the minister to her refusal to grant school bus operators rolling leases. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER: Order! It is absolutely impossible for question time to start unless we allow someone to ask a question. Mr C.J. BARNETT: I refer the minister to her refusal to grant school bus operators rolling leases, which are necessary to provide these operators with the security of tenure and the resource to maintain services and safety for children in this State. (1) Can the minister confirm that she intends to grant rolling leases without going to open tender to passenger bus operators in Port Hedland and some other areas, while refusing to do the same for school bus operators? (2) Can the minister confirm that she has informed the Pastoralists and Graziers Association that the Cabinet and the Government consider rolling pastoral leases to be preferable to perpetual leases? (3) Why is the minister promoting and granting rolling leases to everyone else, but attempting to bully and intimidate school bus operators into perpetual leases? (4) Does the minister consider it appropriate behaviour to send an intimidatory fax to country school bus operators at 2.00 am today and, if not, will she now apologise to those operators and their families for the disturbance and, in some cases, distress she has caused them? Ms A.J. MacTIERNAN
AnswerView source ↗
(1)-(4) The Opposition was in government for eight years, and it could not bring this issue to resolution. If this is truly what the previous Government wanted to do, it could easily have done it, but the Opposition knows, and the Government knows, that perpetual leases are simply not an option. Granting a perpetual lease to somebody with a five-year contract cannot be justified without a tender process. This issue limped on for the eight years of the previous Government, and it was unable to bring this matter to any resolution. The Government said it would take this matter up. It indicated that it would move away from the standard rate model to a composite rate model, and at the same time introduce some security of tenure for the operators. There has been a great deal of concern on the part of the bus operators that, during the life of the previous Government, they were not able to get anything more than five-year leases. Two years ago, in recognition of the ambiguity about the nature of their contracts, this Government offered these bus operators a package involving contracts of 20 to 25 years. The current holders of five-year leases would be offered 20 to 25-year leases. A large assembly of bus operators voted overwhelmingly to support that measure. Interestingly, at a subsequent meeting the member for Carine hopped up and said that the Opposition had now changed its stand. It had not been prepared to do anything for the operators when in government, but now in opposition it would give them perpetual leases. Even the lawyer who was present said that that was nonsense; the operators would not get perpetual leases and they should stick with the 20 to 25-year leases. The Motor Trade Association, which represents a relatively small group of the bus operators - who tend to be the larger operators with 10 to 20 buses - believes that the operators have a legal entitlement to perpetual leases. I have always said to these operators that, if that is their view, there is no requirement on them to sign the contract the Government is presenting to them. The only way they can proceed with this matter is to test their claim for perpetual leases in the court. They have a fighting fund, but they will not take a case to court, because they know that the chances of winning that case are so minute as to be not worth the risk. The overwhelming majority of operators have accepted that the 20 to 25-year lease is their best option. We have been having discussions over the past couple of days about the detail of the package. The financial package that gives them an extra $4.7 million a year was signed in the middle of the year, but now we are trying to negotiate the detail that will regulate this $1 billion worth of contracts over the next 25 years. There will need to be some fairly detailed provisions. The Government has a duty of care to the children, and must make sure that it has adequate safeguards. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER: Order! I call to order for the first time the members for Carine and Moore. Ms A.J. MacTIERNAN: The Government must make sure that it has sufficient control to protect the interests of the taxpayers and the students. There will be some argument about where the line should be drawn, but we have introduced some incredible provisions. An independent arbitrator will determine the adjustments each year. An independent tribunal has been introduced to hear complaints of bus operators about the implementation of the various control mechanisms. Some robust discussions will go on over the next couple of weeks. Mr C.J. Barnett: Arrogant minister! Ms A.J. MacTIERNAN: The Opposition had eight years to deal with the issue and did not do so, but by the end of three years this Government will have resolved this issue. We found out very late last night that, notwithstanding the fact that the Transport Forum WA had told us that it had made real progress and was almost there, the rally would still go ahead. We had an obligation to act. Our people came in at 11 o’clock last night, and a letter was finalised so that the operators would know our side of the story. We wanted to tell them what changes had been agreed to - the degree of independence for the referee and the removal of various provisions relating to psychological testing that had been agreed on. It was important that they understood that if they were being asked to go to a rally. We do not apologise for working through the night to try to resolve these issues. Far from being arrogant, we want to make sure that each and every bus operator understands the story from both perspectives. We are not prepared to deal simply with the representatives if we are not confident that our version of events is not getting through. I am confident that we can resolve this matter. We have a deadline to have these contracts signed off by mid January. I urge all parties to sit down and make their cases and we can negotiate these issues.
Several members interjected. The SPEAKER: Order! It is absolutely impossible for question time to start unless we allow someone to ask a question. Mr C.J. BARNETT: I refer the minister to her refusal to grant school bus operators rolling leases, which are necessary to provide these operators with the security of tenure and the resource to maintain services and safety for children in this State. (1) Can the minister confirm that she intends to grant rolling leases without going to open tender to passenger bus operators in Port Hedland and some other areas, while refusing to do the same for school bus operators? (2) Can the minister confirm that she has informed the Pastoralists and Graziers Association that the Cabinet and the Government consider rolling pastoral leases to be preferable to perpetual leases? (3) Why is the minister promoting and granting rolling leases to everyone else, but attempting to bully and intimidate school bus operators into perpetual leases? (4) Does the minister consider it appropriate behaviour to send an intimidatory fax to country school bus operators at 2.00 am today and, if not, will she now apologise to those operators and their families for the disturbance and, in some cases, distress she has caused them? Ms A.J. MacTIERNAN replied: (1)-(4) The Opposition was in government for eight years, and it could not bring this issue to resolution. If this is truly what the previous Government wanted to do, it could easily have done it, but the Opposition knows, and the Government knows, that perpetual leases are simply not an option. Granting a perpetual lease to somebody with a five-year contract cannot be justified without a tender process. This issue limped on for the eight years of the previous Government, and it was unable to bring this matter to any resolution. The Government said it would take this matter up. It indicated that it would move away from the standard rate model to a composite rate model, and at the same time introduce some security of tenure for the operators. There has been a great deal of concern on the part of the bus operators that, during the life of the previous Government, they were not able to get anything more than five-year leases. Two years ago, in recognition of the ambiguity about the nature of their contracts, this Government offered these bus operators a package involving contracts of 20 to 25 years. The current holders of five-year leases would be offered 20 to 25-year leases. A large assembly of bus operators voted overwhelmingly to support that measure. Interestingly, at a subsequent meeting the member for Carine hopped up and said that the Opposition had now changed its stand. It had not been prepared to do anything for the operators when in government, but now in opposition it would give them perpetual leases. Even the lawyer who was present said that that was nonsense; the operators would not get perpetual leases and they should stick with the 20 to 25-year leases. The Motor Trade Association, which represents a relatively small group of the bus operators - who tend to be the larger operators with 10 to 20 buses - believes that the operators have a legal entitlement to perpetual leases. I have always said to these operators that, if that is their view, there is no requirement on them to sign the contract the Government is presenting to them. The only way they can proceed with this matter is to test their claim for perpetual leases in the court. They have a fighting fund, but they will not take a case to court, because they know that the chances of winning that case are so minute as to be not worth the risk. The overwhelming majority of operators have accepted that the 20 to 25-year lease is their best option. We have been having discussions over the past couple of days about the detail of the package. The financial package that gives them an extra $4.7 million a year was signed in the middle of the year, but now we are trying to negotiate the detail that will regulate this $1 billion worth of contracts over the next 25 years. There will need to be some fairly detailed provisions. The Government has a duty of care to the children, and must make sure that it has adequate safeguards. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER: Order! I call to order for the first time the members for Carine and Moore. Ms A.J. MacTIERNAN: The Government must make sure that it has sufficient control to protect the interests of the taxpayers and the students. There will be some argument about where the line should be drawn, but we have introduced some incredible provisions. An independent arbitrator will determine the adjustments each year. An independent tribunal has been introduced to hear complaints of bus operators about the implementation of the various control mechanisms. Some robust discussions will go on over the next couple of weeks. Mr C.J. Barnett: Arrogant minister! Ms A.J. MacTIERNAN: The Opposition had eight years to deal with the issue and did not do so, but by the end of three years this Government will have resolved this issue. We found out very late last night that, notwithstanding the fact that the Transport Forum WA had told us that it had made real progress and was almost there, the rally would still go ahead. We had an obligation to act. Our people came in at 11 o’clock last night, and a letter was finalised so that the operators would know our side of the story. We wanted to tell them what changes had been agreed to - the degree of independence for the referee and the removal of various provisions relating to psychological testing that had been agreed on. It was important that they understood that if they were being asked to go to a rally. We do not apologise for working through the night to try to resolve these issues. Far from being arrogant, we want to make sure that each and every bus operator understands the story from both perspectives. We are not prepared to deal simply with the representatives if we are not confident that our version of events is not getting through. I am confident that we can resolve this matter. We have a deadline to have these contracts signed off by mid January. I urge all parties to sit down and make their cases and we can negotiate these issues.
The SPEAKER: Order! It is absolutely impossible for question time to start unless we allow someone to ask a question. Mr C.J. BARNETT: I refer the minister to her refusal to grant school bus operators rolling leases, which are necessary to provide these operators with the security of tenure and the resource to maintain services and safety for children in this State. (1) Can the minister confirm that she intends to grant rolling leases without going to open tender to passenger bus operators in Port Hedland and some other areas, while refusing to do the same for school bus operators? (2) Can the minister confirm that she has informed the Pastoralists and Graziers Association that the Cabinet and the Government consider rolling pastoral leases to be preferable to perpetual leases? (3) Why is the minister promoting and granting rolling leases to everyone else, but attempting to bully and intimidate school bus operators into perpetual leases? (4) Does the minister consider it appropriate behaviour to send an intimidatory fax to country school bus operators at 2.00 am today and, if not, will she now apologise to those operators and their families for the disturbance and, in some cases, distress she has caused them? Ms A.J. MacTIERNAN replied: (1)-(4) The Opposition was in government for eight years, and it could not bring this issue to resolution. If this is truly what the previous Government wanted to do, it could easily have done it, but the Opposition knows, and the Government knows, that perpetual leases are simply not an option. Granting a perpetual lease to somebody with a five-year contract cannot be justified without a tender process. This issue limped on for the eight years of the previous Government, and it was unable to bring this matter to any resolution. The Government said it would take this matter up. It indicated that it would move away from the standard rate model to a composite rate model, and at the same time introduce some security of tenure for the operators. There has been a great deal of concern on the part of the bus operators that, during the life of the previous Government, they were not able to get anything more than five-year leases. Two years ago, in recognition of the ambiguity about the nature of their contracts, this Government offered these bus operators a package involving contracts of 20 to 25 years. The current holders of five-year leases would be offered 20 to 25-year leases. A large assembly of bus operators voted overwhelmingly to support that measure. Interestingly, at a subsequent meeting the member for Carine hopped up and said that the Opposition had now changed its stand. It had not been prepared to do anything for the operators when in government, but now in opposition it would give them perpetual leases. Even the lawyer who was present said that that was nonsense; the operators would not get perpetual leases and they should stick with the 20 to 25-year leases. The Motor Trade Association, which represents a relatively small group of the bus operators - who tend to be the larger operators with 10 to 20 buses - believes that the operators have a legal entitlement to perpetual leases. I have always said to these operators that, if that is their view, there is no requirement on them to sign the contract the Government is presenting to them. The only way they can proceed with this matter is to test their claim for perpetual leases in the court. They have a fighting fund, but they will not take a case to court, because they know that the chances of winning that case are so minute as to be not worth the risk. The overwhelming majority of operators have accepted that the 20 to 25-year lease is their best option. We have been having discussions over the past couple of days about the detail of the package. The financial package that gives them an extra $4.7 million a year was signed in the middle of the year, but now we are trying to negotiate the detail that will regulate this $1 billion worth of contracts over the next 25 years. There will need to be some fairly detailed provisions. The Government has a duty of care to the children, and must make sure that it has adequate safeguards. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER: Order! I call to order for the first time the members for Carine and Moore. Ms A.J. MacTIERNAN: The Government must make sure that it has sufficient control to protect the interests of the taxpayers and the students. There will be some argument about where the line should be drawn, but we have introduced some incredible provisions. An independent arbitrator will determine the adjustments each year. An independent tribunal has been introduced to hear complaints of bus operators about the implementation of the various control mechanisms. Some robust discussions will go on over the next couple of weeks. Mr C.J. Barnett: Arrogant minister! Ms A.J. MacTIERNAN: The Opposition had eight years to deal with the issue and did not do so, but by the end of three years this Government will have resolved this issue. We found out very late last night that, notwithstanding the fact that the Transport Forum WA had told us that it had made real progress and was almost there, the rally would still go ahead. We had an obligation to act. Our people came in at 11 o’clock last night, and a letter was finalised so that the operators would know our side of the story. We wanted to tell them what changes had been agreed to - the degree of independence for the referee and the removal of various provisions relating to psychological testing that had been agreed on. It was important that they understood that if they were being asked to go to a rally. We do not apologise for working through the night to try to resolve these issues. Far from being arrogant, we want to make sure that each and every bus operator understands the story from both perspectives. We are not prepared to deal simply with the representatives if we are not confident that our version of events is not getting through. I am confident that we can resolve this matter. We have a deadline to have these contracts signed off by mid January. I urge all parties to sit down and make their cases and we can negotiate these issues.
Mr C.J. BARNETT: I refer the minister to her refusal to grant school bus operators rolling leases, which are necessary to provide these operators with the security of tenure and the resource to maintain services and safety for children in this State. (1) Can the minister confirm that she intends to grant rolling leases without going to open tender to passenger bus operators in Port Hedland and some other areas, while refusing to do the same for school bus operators? (2) Can the minister confirm that she has informed the Pastoralists and Graziers Association that the Cabinet and the Government consider rolling pastoral leases to be preferable to perpetual leases? (3) Why is the minister promoting and granting rolling leases to everyone else, but attempting to bully and intimidate school bus operators into perpetual leases? (4) Does the minister consider it appropriate behaviour to send an intimidatory fax to country school bus operators at 2.00 am today and, if not, will she now apologise to those operators and their families for the disturbance and, in some cases, distress she has caused them? Ms A.J. MacTIERNAN replied: (1)-(4) The Opposition was in government for eight years, and it could not bring this issue to resolution. If this is truly what the previous Government wanted to do, it could easily have done it, but the Opposition knows, and the Government knows, that perpetual leases are simply not an option. Granting a perpetual lease to somebody with a five-year contract cannot be justified without a tender process. This issue limped on for the eight years of the previous Government, and it was unable to bring this matter to any resolution. The Government said it would take this matter up. It indicated that it would move away from the standard rate model to a composite rate model, and at the same time introduce some security of tenure for the operators. There has been a great deal of concern on the part of the bus operators that, during the life of the previous Government, they were not able to get anything more than five-year leases. Two years ago, in recognition of the ambiguity about the nature of their contracts, this Government offered these bus operators a package involving contracts of 20 to 25 years. The current holders of five-year leases would be offered 20 to 25-year leases. A large assembly of bus operators voted overwhelmingly to support that measure. Interestingly, at a subsequent meeting the member for Carine hopped up and said that the Opposition had now changed its stand. It had not been prepared to do anything for the operators when in government, but now in opposition it would give them perpetual leases. Even the lawyer who was present said that that was nonsense; the operators would not get perpetual leases and they should stick with the 20 to 25-year leases. The Motor Trade Association, which represents a relatively small group of the bus operators - who tend to be the larger operators with 10 to 20 buses - believes that the operators have a legal entitlement to perpetual leases. I have always said to these operators that, if that is their view, there is no requirement on them to sign the contract the Government is presenting to them. The only way they can proceed with this matter is to test their claim for perpetual leases in the court. They have a fighting fund, but they will not take a case to court, because they know that the chances of winning that case are so minute as to be not worth the risk. The overwhelming majority of operators have accepted that the 20 to 25-year lease is their best option. We have been having discussions over the past couple of days about the detail of the package. The financial package that gives them an extra $4.7 million a year was signed in the middle of the year, but now we are trying to negotiate the detail that will regulate this $1 billion worth of contracts over the next 25 years. There will need to be some fairly detailed provisions. The Government has a duty of care to the children, and must make sure that it has adequate safeguards. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER: Order! I call to order for the first time the members for Carine and Moore. Ms A.J. MacTIERNAN: The Government must make sure that it has sufficient control to protect the interests of the taxpayers and the students. There will be some argument about where the line should be drawn, but we have introduced some incredible provisions. An independent arbitrator will determine the adjustments each year. An independent tribunal has been introduced to hear complaints of bus operators about the implementation of the various control mechanisms. Some robust discussions will go on over the next couple of weeks. Mr C.J. Barnett: Arrogant minister! Ms A.J. MacTIERNAN: The Opposition had eight years to deal with the issue and did not do so, but by the end of three years this Government will have resolved this issue. We found out very late last night that, notwithstanding the fact that the Transport Forum WA had told us that it had made real progress and was almost there, the rally would still go ahead. We had an obligation to act. Our people came in at 11 o’clock last night, and a letter was finalised so that the operators would know our side of the story. We wanted to tell them what changes had been agreed to - the degree of independence for the referee and the removal of various provisions relating to psychological testing that had been agreed on. It was important that they understood that if they were being asked to go to a rally. We do not apologise for working through the night to try to resolve these issues. Far from being arrogant, we want to make sure that each and every bus operator understands the story from both perspectives. We are not prepared to deal simply with the representatives if we are not confident that our version of events is not getting through. I am confident that we can resolve this matter. We have a deadline to have these contracts signed off by mid January. I urge all parties to sit down and make their cases and we can negotiate these issues.
(1) Can the minister confirm that she intends to grant rolling leases without going to open tender to passenger bus operators in Port Hedland and some other areas, while refusing to do the same for school bus operators? (2) Can the minister confirm that she has informed the Pastoralists and Graziers Association that the Cabinet and the Government consider rolling pastoral leases to be preferable to perpetual leases? (3) Why is the minister promoting and granting rolling leases to everyone else, but attempting to bully and intimidate school bus operators into perpetual leases? (4) Does the minister consider it appropriate behaviour to send an intimidatory fax to country school bus operators at 2.00 am today and, if not, will she now apologise to those operators and their families for the disturbance and, in some cases, distress she has caused them? Ms A.J. MacTIERNAN replied: (1)-(4) The Opposition was in government for eight years, and it could not bring this issue to resolution. If this is truly what the previous Government wanted to do, it could easily have done it, but the Opposition knows, and the Government knows, that perpetual leases are simply not an option. Granting a perpetual lease to somebody with a five-year contract cannot be justified without a tender process. This issue limped on for the eight years of the previous Government, and it was unable to bring this matter to any resolution. The Government said it would take this matter up. It indicated that it would move away from the standard rate model to a composite rate model, and at the same time introduce some security of tenure for the operators. There has been a great deal of concern on the part of the bus operators that, during the life of the previous Government, they were not able to get anything more than five-year leases. Two years ago, in recognition of the ambiguity about the nature of their contracts, this Government offered these bus operators a package involving contracts of 20 to 25 years. The current holders of five-year leases would be offered 20 to 25-year leases. A large assembly of bus operators voted overwhelmingly to support that measure. Interestingly, at a subsequent meeting the member for Carine hopped up and said that the Opposition had now changed its stand. It had not been prepared to do anything for the operators when in government, but now in opposition it would give them perpetual leases. Even the lawyer who was present said that that was nonsense; the operators would not get perpetual leases and they should stick with the 20 to 25-year leases. The Motor Trade Association, which represents a relatively small group of the bus operators - who tend to be the larger operators with 10 to 20 buses - believes that the operators have a legal entitlement to perpetual leases. I have always said to these operators that, if that is their view, there is no requirement on them to sign the contract the Government is presenting to them. The only way they can proceed with this matter is to test their claim for perpetual leases in the court. They have a fighting fund, but they will not take a case to court, because they know that the chances of winning that case are so minute as to be not worth the risk. The overwhelming majority of operators have accepted that the 20 to 25-year lease is their best option. We have been having discussions over the past couple of days about the detail of the package. The financial package that gives them an extra $4.7 million a year was signed in the middle of the year, but now we are trying to negotiate the detail that will regulate this $1 billion worth of contracts over the next 25 years. There will need to be some fairly detailed provisions. The Government has a duty of care to the children, and must make sure that it has adequate safeguards. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER: Order! I call to order for the first time the members for Carine and Moore. Ms A.J. MacTIERNAN: The Government must make sure that it has sufficient control to protect the interests of the taxpayers and the students. There will be some argument about where the line should be drawn, but we have introduced some incredible provisions. An independent arbitrator will determine the adjustments each year. An independent tribunal has been introduced to hear complaints of bus operators about the implementation of the various control mechanisms. Some robust discussions will go on over the next couple of weeks. Mr C.J. Barnett: Arrogant minister! Ms A.J. MacTIERNAN: The Opposition had eight years to deal with the issue and did not do so, but by the end of three years this Government will have resolved this issue. We found out very late last night that, notwithstanding the fact that the Transport Forum WA had told us that it had made real progress and was almost there, the rally would still go ahead. We had an obligation to act. Our people came in at 11 o’clock last night, and a letter was finalised so that the operators would know our side of the story. We wanted to tell them what changes had been agreed to - the degree of independence for the referee and the removal of various provisions relating to psychological testing that had been agreed on. It was important that they understood that if they were being asked to go to a rally. We do not apologise for working through the night to try to resolve these issues. Far from being arrogant, we want to make sure that each and every bus operator understands the story from both perspectives. We are not prepared to deal simply with the representatives if we are not confident that our version of events is not getting through. I am confident that we can resolve this matter. We have a deadline to have these contracts signed off by mid January. I urge all parties to sit down and make their cases and we can negotiate these issues.
(2) Can the minister confirm that she has informed the Pastoralists and Graziers Association that the Cabinet and the Government consider rolling pastoral leases to be preferable to perpetual leases? (3) Why is the minister promoting and granting rolling leases to everyone else, but attempting to bully and intimidate school bus operators into perpetual leases? (4) Does the minister consider it appropriate behaviour to send an intimidatory fax to country school bus operators at 2.00 am today and, if not, will she now apologise to those operators and their families for the disturbance and, in some cases, distress she has caused them? Ms A.J. MacTIERNAN replied: (1)-(4) The Opposition was in government for eight years, and it could not bring this issue to resolution. If this is truly what the previous Government wanted to do, it could easily have done it, but the Opposition knows, and the Government knows, that perpetual leases are simply not an option. Granting a perpetual lease to somebody with a five-year contract cannot be justified without a tender process. This issue limped on for the eight years of the previous Government, and it was unable to bring this matter to any resolution. The Government said it would take this matter up. It indicated that it would move away from the standard rate model to a composite rate model, and at the same time introduce some security of tenure for the operators. There has been a great deal of concern on the part of the bus operators that, during the life of the previous Government, they were not able to get anything more than five-year leases. Two years ago, in recognition of the ambiguity about the nature of their contracts, this Government offered these bus operators a package involving contracts of 20 to 25 years. The current holders of five-year leases would be offered 20 to 25-year leases. A large assembly of bus operators voted overwhelmingly to support that measure. Interestingly, at a subsequent meeting the member for Carine hopped up and said that the Opposition had now changed its stand. It had not been prepared to do anything for the operators when in government, but now in opposition it would give them perpetual leases. Even the lawyer who was present said that that was nonsense; the operators would not get perpetual leases and they should stick with the 20 to 25-year leases. The Motor Trade Association, which represents a relatively small group of the bus operators - who tend to be the larger operators with 10 to 20 buses - believes that the operators have a legal entitlement to perpetual leases. I have always said to these operators that, if that is their view, there is no requirement on them to sign the contract the Government is presenting to them. The only way they can proceed with this matter is to test their claim for perpetual leases in the court. They have a fighting fund, but they will not take a case to court, because they know that the chances of winning that case are so minute as to be not worth the risk. The overwhelming majority of operators have accepted that the 20 to 25-year lease is their best option. We have been having discussions over the past couple of days about the detail of the package. The financial package that gives them an extra $4.7 million a year was signed in the middle of the year, but now we are trying to negotiate the detail that will regulate this $1 billion worth of contracts over the next 25 years. There will need to be some fairly detailed provisions. The Government has a duty of care to the children, and must make sure that it has adequate safeguards. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER: Order! I call to order for the first time the members for Carine and Moore. Ms A.J. MacTIERNAN: The Government must make sure that it has sufficient control to protect the interests of the taxpayers and the students. There will be some argument about where the line should be drawn, but we have introduced some incredible provisions. An independent arbitrator will determine the adjustments each year. An independent tribunal has been introduced to hear complaints of bus operators about the implementation of the various control mechanisms. Some robust discussions will go on over the next couple of weeks. Mr C.J. Barnett: Arrogant minister! Ms A.J. MacTIERNAN: The Opposition had eight years to deal with the issue and did not do so, but by the end of three years this Government will have resolved this issue. We found out very late last night that, notwithstanding the fact that the Transport Forum WA had told us that it had made real progress and was almost there, the rally would still go ahead. We had an obligation to act. Our people came in at 11 o’clock last night, and a letter was finalised so that the operators would know our side of the story. We wanted to tell them what changes had been agreed to - the degree of independence for the referee and the removal of various provisions relating to psychological testing that had been agreed on. It was important that they understood that if they were being asked to go to a rally. We do not apologise for working through the night to try to resolve these issues. Far from being arrogant, we want to make sure that each and every bus operator understands the story from both perspectives. We are not prepared to deal simply with the representatives if we are not confident that our version of events is not getting through. I am confident that we can resolve this matter. We have a deadline to have these contracts signed off by mid January. I urge all parties to sit down and make their cases and we can negotiate these issues.
(3) Why is the minister promoting and granting rolling leases to everyone else, but attempting to bully and intimidate school bus operators into perpetual leases? (4) Does the minister consider it appropriate behaviour to send an intimidatory fax to country school bus operators at 2.00 am today and, if not, will she now apologise to those operators and their families for the disturbance and, in some cases, distress she has caused them? Ms A.J. MacTIERNAN replied: (1)-(4) The Opposition was in government for eight years, and it could not bring this issue to resolution. If this is truly what the previous Government wanted to do, it could easily have done it, but the Opposition knows, and the Government knows, that perpetual leases are simply not an option. Granting a perpetual lease to somebody with a five-year contract cannot be justified without a tender process. This issue limped on for the eight years of the previous Government, and it was unable to bring this matter to any resolution. The Government said it would take this matter up. It indicated that it would move away from the standard rate model to a composite rate model, and at the same time introduce some security of tenure for the operators. There has been a great deal of concern on the part of the bus operators that, during the life of the previous Government, they were not able to get anything more than five-year leases. Two years ago, in recognition of the ambiguity about the nature of their contracts, this Government offered these bus operators a package involving contracts of 20 to 25 years. The current holders of five-year leases would be offered 20 to 25-year leases. A large assembly of bus operators voted overwhelmingly to support that measure. Interestingly, at a subsequent meeting the member for Carine hopped up and said that the Opposition had now changed its stand. It had not been prepared to do anything for the operators when in government, but now in opposition it would give them perpetual leases. Even the lawyer who was present said that that was nonsense; the operators would not get perpetual leases and they should stick with the 20 to 25-year leases. The Motor Trade Association, which represents a relatively small group of the bus operators - who tend to be the larger operators with 10 to 20 buses - believes that the operators have a legal entitlement to perpetual leases. I have always said to these operators that, if that is their view, there is no requirement on them to sign the contract the Government is presenting to them. The only way they can proceed with this matter is to test their claim for perpetual leases in the court. They have a fighting fund, but they will not take a case to court, because they know that the chances of winning that case are so minute as to be not worth the risk. The overwhelming majority of operators have accepted that the 20 to 25-year lease is their best option. We have been having discussions over the past couple of days about the detail of the package. The financial package that gives them an extra $4.7 million a year was signed in the middle of the year, but now we are trying to negotiate the detail that will regulate this $1 billion worth of contracts over the next 25 years. There will need to be some fairly detailed provisions. The Government has a duty of care to the children, and must make sure that it has adequate safeguards. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER: Order! I call to order for the first time the members for Carine and Moore. Ms A.J. MacTIERNAN: The Government must make sure that it has sufficient control to protect the interests of the taxpayers and the students. There will be some argument about where the line should be drawn, but we have introduced some incredible provisions. An independent arbitrator will determine the adjustments each year. An independent tribunal has been introduced to hear complaints of bus operators about the implementation of the various control mechanisms. Some robust discussions will go on over the next couple of weeks. Mr C.J. Barnett: Arrogant minister! Ms A.J. MacTIERNAN: The Opposition had eight years to deal with the issue and did not do so, but by the end of three years this Government will have resolved this issue. We found out very late last night that, notwithstanding the fact that the Transport Forum WA had told us that it had made real progress and was almost there, the rally would still go ahead. We had an obligation to act. Our people came in at 11 o’clock last night, and a letter was finalised so that the operators would know our side of the story. We wanted to tell them what changes had been agreed to - the degree of independence for the referee and the removal of various provisions relating to psychological testing that had been agreed on. It was important that they understood that if they were being asked to go to a rally. We do not apologise for working through the night to try to resolve these issues. Far from being arrogant, we want to make sure that each and every bus operator understands the story from both perspectives. We are not prepared to deal simply with the representatives if we are not confident that our version of events is not getting through. I am confident that we can resolve this matter. We have a deadline to have these contracts signed off by mid January. I urge all parties to sit down and make their cases and we can negotiate these issues.
(4) Does the minister consider it appropriate behaviour to send an intimidatory fax to country school bus operators at 2.00 am today and, if not, will she now apologise to those operators and their families for the disturbance and, in some cases, distress she has caused them? Ms A.J. MacTIERNAN replied: (1)-(4) The Opposition was in government for eight years, and it could not bring this issue to resolution. If this is truly what the previous Government wanted to do, it could easily have done it, but the Opposition knows, and the Government knows, that perpetual leases are simply not an option. Granting a perpetual lease to somebody with a five-year contract cannot be justified without a tender process. This issue limped on for the eight years of the previous Government, and it was unable to bring this matter to any resolution. The Government said it would take this matter up. It indicated that it would move away from the standard rate model to a composite rate model, and at the same time introduce some security of tenure for the operators. There has been a great deal of concern on the part of the bus operators that, during the life of the previous Government, they were not able to get anything more than five-year leases. Two years ago, in recognition of the ambiguity about the nature of their contracts, this Government offered these bus operators a package involving contracts of 20 to 25 years. The current holders of five-year leases would be offered 20 to 25-year leases. A large assembly of bus operators voted overwhelmingly to support that measure. Interestingly, at a subsequent meeting the member for Carine hopped up and said that the Opposition had now changed its stand. It had not been prepared to do anything for the operators when in government, but now in opposition it would give them perpetual leases. Even the lawyer who was present said that that was nonsense; the operators would not get perpetual leases and they should stick with the 20 to 25-year leases. The Motor Trade Association, which represents a relatively small group of the bus operators - who tend to be the larger operators with 10 to 20 buses - believes that the operators have a legal entitlement to perpetual leases. I have always said to these operators that, if that is their view, there is no requirement on them to sign the contract the Government is presenting to them. The only way they can proceed with this matter is to test their claim for perpetual leases in the court. They have a fighting fund, but they will not take a case to court, because they know that the chances of winning that case are so minute as to be not worth the risk. The overwhelming majority of operators have accepted that the 20 to 25-year lease is their best option. We have been having discussions over the past couple of days about the detail of the package. The financial package that gives them an extra $4.7 million a year was signed in the middle of the year, but now we are trying to negotiate the detail that will regulate this $1 billion worth of contracts over the next 25 years. There will need to be some fairly detailed provisions. The Government has a duty of care to the children, and must make sure that it has adequate safeguards. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER: Order! I call to order for the first time the members for Carine and Moore. Ms A.J. MacTIERNAN: The Government must make sure that it has sufficient control to protect the interests of the taxpayers and the students. There will be some argument about where the line should be drawn, but we have introduced some incredible provisions. An independent arbitrator will determine the adjustments each year. An independent tribunal has been introduced to hear complaints of bus operators about the implementation of the various control mechanisms. Some robust discussions will go on over the next couple of weeks. Mr C.J. Barnett: Arrogant minister! Ms A.J. MacTIERNAN: The Opposition had eight years to deal with the issue and did not do so, but by the end of three years this Government will have resolved this issue. We found out very late last night that, notwithstanding the fact that the Transport Forum WA had told us that it had made real progress and was almost there, the rally would still go ahead. We had an obligation to act. Our people came in at 11 o’clock last night, and a letter was finalised so that the operators would know our side of the story. We wanted to tell them what changes had been agreed to - the degree of independence for the referee and the removal of various provisions relating to psychological testing that had been agreed on. It was important that they understood that if they were being asked to go to a rally. We do not apologise for working through the night to try to resolve these issues. Far from being arrogant, we want to make sure that each and every bus operator understands the story from both perspectives. We are not prepared to deal simply with the representatives if we are not confident that our version of events is not getting through. I am confident that we can resolve this matter. We have a deadline to have these contracts signed off by mid January. I urge all parties to sit down and make their cases and we can negotiate these issues.
Ms A.J. MacTIERNAN replied: (1)-(4) The Opposition was in government for eight years, and it could not bring this issue to resolution. If this is truly what the previous Government wanted to do, it could easily have done it, but the Opposition knows, and the Government knows, that perpetual leases are simply not an option. Granting a perpetual lease to somebody with a five-year contract cannot be justified without a tender process. This issue limped on for the eight years of the previous Government, and it was unable to bring this matter to any resolution. The Government said it would take this matter up. It indicated that it would move away from the standard rate model to a composite rate model, and at the same time introduce some security of tenure for the operators. There has been a great deal of concern on the part of the bus operators that, during the life of the previous Government, they were not able to get anything more than five-year leases. Two years ago, in recognition of the ambiguity about the nature of their contracts, this Government offered these bus operators a package involving contracts of 20 to 25 years. The current holders of five-year leases would be offered 20 to 25-year leases. A large assembly of bus operators voted overwhelmingly to support that measure. Interestingly, at a subsequent meeting the member for Carine hopped up and said that the Opposition had now changed its stand. It had not been prepared to do anything for the operators when in government, but now in opposition it would give them perpetual leases. Even the lawyer who was present said that that was nonsense; the operators would not get perpetual leases and they should stick with the 20 to 25-year leases. The Motor Trade Association, which represents a relatively small group of the bus operators - who tend to be the larger operators with 10 to 20 buses - believes that the operators have a legal entitlement to perpetual leases. I have always said to these operators that, if that is their view, there is no requirement on them to sign the contract the Government is presenting to them. The only way they can proceed with this matter is to test their claim for perpetual leases in the court. They have a fighting fund, but they will not take a case to court, because they know that the chances of winning that case are so minute as to be not worth the risk. The overwhelming majority of operators have accepted that the 20 to 25-year lease is their best option. We have been having discussions over the past couple of days about the detail of the package. The financial package that gives them an extra $4.7 million a year was signed in the middle of the year, but now we are trying to negotiate the detail that will regulate this $1 billion worth of contracts over the next 25 years. There will need to be some fairly detailed provisions. The Government has a duty of care to the children, and must make sure that it has adequate safeguards. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER: Order! I call to order for the first time the members for Carine and Moore. Ms A.J. MacTIERNAN: The Government must make sure that it has sufficient control to protect the interests of the taxpayers and the students. There will be some argument about where the line should be drawn, but we have introduced some incredible provisions. An independent arbitrator will determine the adjustments each year. An independent tribunal has been introduced to hear complaints of bus operators about the implementation of the various control mechanisms. Some robust discussions will go on over the next couple of weeks. Mr C.J. Barnett: Arrogant minister! Ms A.J. MacTIERNAN: The Opposition had eight years to deal with the issue and did not do so, but by the end of three years this Government will have resolved this issue. We found out very late last night that, notwithstanding the fact that the Transport Forum WA had told us that it had made real progress and was almost there, the rally would still go ahead. We had an obligation to act. Our people came in at 11 o’clock last night, and a letter was finalised so that the operators would know our side of the story. We wanted to tell them what changes had been agreed to - the degree of independence for the referee and the removal of various provisions relating to psychological testing that had been agreed on. It was important that they understood that if they were being asked to go to a rally. We do not apologise for working through the night to try to resolve these issues. Far from being arrogant, we want to make sure that each and every bus operator understands the story from both perspectives. We are not prepared to deal simply with the representatives if we are not confident that our version of events is not getting through. I am confident that we can resolve this matter. We have a deadline to have these contracts signed off by mid January. I urge all parties to sit down and make their cases and we can negotiate these issues.
(1)-(4) The Opposition was in government for eight years, and it could not bring this issue to resolution. If this is truly what the previous Government wanted to do, it could easily have done it, but the Opposition knows, and the Government knows, that perpetual leases are simply not an option. Granting a perpetual lease to somebody with a five-year contract cannot be justified without a tender process. This issue limped on for the eight years of the previous Government, and it was unable to bring this matter to any resolution. The Government said it would take this matter up. It indicated that it would move away from the standard rate model to a composite rate model, and at the same time introduce some security of tenure for the operators. There has been a great deal of concern on the part of the bus operators that, during the life of the previous Government, they were not able to get anything more than five-year leases. Two years ago, in recognition of the ambiguity about the nature of their contracts, this Government offered these bus operators a package involving contracts of 20 to 25 years. The current holders of five-year leases would be offered 20 to 25-year leases. A large assembly of bus operators voted overwhelmingly to support that measure. Interestingly, at a subsequent meeting the member for Carine hopped up and said that the Opposition had now changed its stand. It had not been prepared to do anything for the operators when in government, but now in opposition it would give them perpetual leases. Even the lawyer who was present said that that was nonsense; the operators would not get perpetual leases and they should stick with the 20 to 25-year leases. The Motor Trade Association, which represents a relatively small group of the bus operators - who tend to be the larger operators with 10 to 20 buses - believes that the operators have a legal entitlement to perpetual leases. I have always said to these operators that, if that is their view, there is no requirement on them to sign the contract the Government is presenting to them. The only way they can proceed with this matter is to test their claim for perpetual leases in the court. They have a fighting fund, but they will not take a case to court, because they know that the chances of winning that case are so minute as to be not worth the risk. The overwhelming majority of operators have accepted that the 20 to 25-year lease is their best option. We have been having discussions over the past couple of days about the detail of the package. The financial package that gives them an extra $4.7 million a year was signed in the middle of the year, but now we are trying to negotiate the detail that will regulate this $1 billion worth of contracts over the next 25 years. There will need to be some fairly detailed provisions. The Government has a duty of care to the children, and must make sure that it has adequate safeguards. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER: Order! I call to order for the first time the members for Carine and Moore. Ms A.J. MacTIERNAN: The Government must make sure that it has sufficient control to protect the interests of the taxpayers and the students. There will be some argument about where the line should be drawn, but we have introduced some incredible provisions. An independent arbitrator will determine the adjustments each year. An independent tribunal has been introduced to hear complaints of bus operators about the implementation of the various control mechanisms. Some robust discussions will go on over the next couple of weeks. Mr C.J. Barnett: Arrogant minister! Ms A.J. MacTIERNAN: The Opposition had eight years to deal with the issue and did not do so, but by the end of three years this Government will have resolved this issue. We found out very late last night that, notwithstanding the fact that the Transport Forum WA had told us that it had made real progress and was almost there, the rally would still go ahead. We had an obligation to act. Our people came in at 11 o’clock last night, and a letter was finalised so that the operators would know our side of the story. We wanted to tell them what changes had been agreed to - the degree of independence for the referee and the removal of various provisions relating to psychological testing that had been agreed on. It was important that they understood that if they were being asked to go to a rally. We do not apologise for working through the night to try to resolve these issues. Far from being arrogant, we want to make sure that each and every bus operator understands the story from both perspectives. We are not prepared to deal simply with the representatives if we are not confident that our version of events is not getting through. I am confident that we can resolve this matter. We have a deadline to have these contracts signed off by mid January. I urge all parties to sit down and make their cases and we can negotiate these issues.
The Motor Trade Association, which represents a relatively small group of the bus operators - who tend to be the larger operators with 10 to 20 buses - believes that the operators have a legal entitlement to perpetual leases. I have always said to these operators that, if that is their view, there is no requirement on them to sign the contract the Government is presenting to them. The only way they can proceed with this matter is to test their claim for perpetual leases in the court. They have a fighting fund, but they will not take a case to court, because they know that the chances of winning that case are so minute as to be not worth the risk. The overwhelming majority of operators have accepted that the 20 to 25-year lease is their best option. We have been having discussions over the past couple of days about the detail of the package. The financial package that gives them an extra $4.7 million a year was signed in the middle of the year, but now we are trying to negotiate the detail that will regulate this $1 billion worth of contracts over the next 25 years. There will need to be some fairly detailed provisions. The Government has a duty of care to the children, and must make sure that it has adequate safeguards.
We have been having discussions over the past couple of days about the detail of the package. The financial package that gives them an extra $4.7 million a year was signed in the middle of the year, but now we are trying to negotiate the detail that will regulate this $1 billion worth of contracts over the next 25 years. There will need to be some fairly detailed provisions. The Government has a duty of care to the children, and must make sure that it has adequate safeguards.
The SPEAKER: Order! I call to order for the first time the members for Carine and Moore. Ms A.J. MacTIERNAN: The Government must make sure that it has sufficient control to protect the interests of the taxpayers and the students. There will be some argument about where the line should be drawn, but we have introduced some incredible provisions. An independent arbitrator will determine the adjustments each year. An independent tribunal has been introduced to hear complaints of bus operators about the implementation of the various control mechanisms. Some robust discussions will go on over the next couple of weeks. Mr C.J. Barnett: Arrogant minister! Ms A.J. MacTIERNAN: The Opposition had eight years to deal with the issue and did not do so, but by the end of three years this Government will have resolved this issue. We found out very late last night that, notwithstanding the fact that the Transport Forum WA had told us that it had made real progress and was almost there, the rally would still go ahead. We had an obligation to act. Our people came in at 11 o’clock last night, and a letter was finalised so that the operators would know our side of the story. We wanted to tell them what changes had been agreed to - the degree of independence for the referee and the removal of various provisions relating to psychological testing that had been agreed on. It was important that they understood that if they were being asked to go to a rally. We do not apologise for working through the night to try to resolve these issues. Far from being arrogant, we want to make sure that each and every bus operator understands the story from both perspectives. We are not prepared to deal simply with the representatives if we are not confident that our version of events is not getting through. I am confident that we can resolve this matter. We have a deadline to have these contracts signed off by mid January. I urge all parties to sit down and make their cases and we can negotiate these issues.
Ms A.J. MacTIERNAN: The Government must make sure that it has sufficient control to protect the interests of the taxpayers and the students. There will be some argument about where the line should be drawn, but we have introduced some incredible provisions. An independent arbitrator will determine the adjustments each year. An independent tribunal has been introduced to hear complaints of bus operators about the implementation of the various control mechanisms. Some robust discussions will go on over the next couple of weeks. Mr C.J. Barnett: Arrogant minister! Ms A.J. MacTIERNAN: The Opposition had eight years to deal with the issue and did not do so, but by the end of three years this Government will have resolved this issue. We found out very late last night that, notwithstanding the fact that the Transport Forum WA had told us that it had made real progress and was almost there, the rally would still go ahead. We had an obligation to act. Our people came in at 11 o’clock last night, and a letter was finalised so that the operators would know our side of the story. We wanted to tell them what changes had been agreed to - the degree of independence for the referee and the removal of various provisions relating to psychological testing that had been agreed on. It was important that they understood that if they were being asked to go to a rally. We do not apologise for working through the night to try to resolve these issues. Far from being arrogant, we want to make sure that each and every bus operator understands the story from both perspectives. We are not prepared to deal simply with the representatives if we are not confident that our version of events is not getting through. I am confident that we can resolve this matter. We have a deadline to have these contracts signed off by mid January. I urge all parties to sit down and make their cases and we can negotiate these issues.
Mr C.J. Barnett: Arrogant minister! Ms A.J. MacTIERNAN: The Opposition had eight years to deal with the issue and did not do so, but by the end of three years this Government will have resolved this issue. We found out very late last night that, notwithstanding the fact that the Transport Forum WA had told us that it had made real progress and was almost there, the rally would still go ahead. We had an obligation to act. Our people came in at 11 o’clock last night, and a letter was finalised so that the operators would know our side of the story. We wanted to tell them what changes had been agreed to - the degree of independence for the referee and the removal of various provisions relating to psychological testing that had been agreed on. It was important that they understood that if they were being asked to go to a rally. We do not apologise for working through the night to try to resolve these issues. Far from being arrogant, we want to make sure that each and every bus operator understands the story from both perspectives. We are not prepared to deal simply with the representatives if we are not confident that our version of events is not getting through. I am confident that we can resolve this matter. We have a deadline to have these contracts signed off by mid January. I urge all parties to sit down and make their cases and we can negotiate these issues.
Ms A.J. MacTIERNAN: The Opposition had eight years to deal with the issue and did not do so, but by the end of three years this Government will have resolved this issue. We found out very late last night that, notwithstanding the fact that the Transport Forum WA had told us that it had made real progress and was almost there, the rally would still go ahead. We had an obligation to act. Our people came in at 11 o’clock last night, and a letter was finalised so that the operators would know our side of the story. We wanted to tell them what changes had been agreed to - the degree of independence for the referee and the removal of various provisions relating to psychological testing that had been agreed on. It was important that they understood that if they were being asked to go to a rally. We do not apologise for working through the night to try to resolve these issues. Far from being arrogant, we want to make sure that each and every bus operator understands the story from both perspectives. We are not prepared to deal simply with the representatives if we are not confident that our version of events is not getting through. I am confident that we can resolve this matter. We have a deadline to have these contracts signed off by mid January. I urge all parties to sit down and make their cases and we can negotiate these issues.
We found out very late last night that, notwithstanding the fact that the Transport Forum WA had told us that it had made real progress and was almost there, the rally would still go ahead. We had an obligation to act. Our people came in at 11 o’clock last night, and a letter was finalised so that the operators would know our side of the story. We wanted to tell them what changes had been agreed to - the degree of independence for the referee and the removal of various provisions relating to psychological testing that had been agreed on. It was important that they understood that if they were being asked to go to a rally. We do not apologise for working through the night to try to resolve these issues. Far from being arrogant, we want to make sure that each and every bus operator understands the story from both perspectives. We are not prepared to deal simply with the representatives if we are not confident that our version of events is not getting through. I am confident that we can resolve this matter. We have a deadline to have these contracts signed off by mid January. I urge all parties to sit down and make their cases and we can negotiate these issues.
Several members interjected. The SPEAKER: Order! It is absolutely impossible for question time to start unless we allow someone to ask a question. Mr C.J. BARNETT: I refer the minister to her refusal to grant school bus operators rolling leases, which are necessary to provide these operators with the security of tenure and the resource to maintain services and safety for children in this State. (1) Can the minister confirm that she intends to grant rolling leases without going to open tender to passenger bus operators in Port Hedland and some other areas, while refusing to do the same for school bus operators? (2) Can the minister confirm that she has informed the Pastoralists and Graziers Association that the Cabinet and the Government consider rolling pastoral leases to be preferable to perpetual leases? (3) Why is the minister promoting and granting rolling leases to everyone else, but attempting to bully and intimidate school bus operators into perpetual leases? (4) Does the minister consider it appropriate behaviour to send an intimidatory fax to country school bus operators at 2.00 am today and, if not, will she now apologise to those operators and their families for the disturbance and, in some cases, distress she has caused them? Ms A.J. MacTIERNAN replied: (1)-(4) The Opposition was in government for eight years, and it could not bring this issue to resolution. If this is truly what the previous Government wanted to do, it could easily have done it, but the Opposition knows, and the Government knows, that perpetual leases are simply not an option. Granting a perpetual lease to somebody with a five-year contract cannot be justified without a tender process. This issue limped on for the eight years of the previous Government, and it was unable to bring this matter to any resolution. The Government said it would take this matter up. It indicated that it would move away from the standard rate model to a composite rate model, and at the same time introduce some security of tenure for the operators. There has been a great deal of concern on the part of the bus operators that, during the life of the previous Government, they were not able to get anything more than five-year leases. Two years ago, in recognition of the ambiguity about the nature of their contracts, this Government offered these bus operators a package involving contracts of 20 to 25 years. The current holders of five-year leases would be offered 20 to 25-year leases. A large assembly of bus operators voted overwhelmingly to support that measure. Interestingly, at a subsequent meeting the member for Carine hopped up and said that the Opposition had now changed its stand. It had not been prepared to do anything for the operators when in government, but now in opposition it would give them perpetual leases. Even the lawyer who was present said that that was nonsense; the operators would not get perpetual leases and they should stick with the 20 to 25-year leases. The Motor Trade Association, which represents a relatively small group of the bus operators - who tend to be the larger operators with 10 to 20 buses - believes that the operators have a legal entitlement to perpetual leases. I have always said to these operators that, if that is their view, there is no requirement on them to sign the contract the Government is presenting to them. The only way they can proceed with this matter is to test their claim for perpetual leases in the court. They have a fighting fund, but they will not take a case to court, because they know that the chances of winning that case are so minute as to be not worth the risk. The overwhelming majority of operators have accepted that the 20 to 25-year lease is their best option. We have been having discussions over the past couple of days about the detail of the package. The financial package that gives them an extra $4.7 million a year was signed in the middle of the year, but now we are trying to negotiate the detail that will regulate this $1 billion worth of contracts over the next 25 years. There will need to be some fairly detailed provisions. The Government has a duty of care to the children, and must make sure that it has adequate safeguards. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER: Order! I call to order for the first time the members for Carine and Moore. Ms A.J. MacTIERNAN: The Government must make sure that it has sufficient control to protect the interests of the taxpayers and the students. There will be some argument about where the line should be drawn, but we have introduced some incredible provisions. An independent arbitrator will determine the adjustments each year. An independent tribunal has been introduced to hear complaints of bus operators about the implementation of the various control mechanisms. Some robust discussions will go on over the next couple of weeks. Mr C.J. Barnett: Arrogant minister! Ms A.J. MacTIERNAN: The Opposition had eight years to deal with the issue and did not do so, but by the end of three years this Government will have resolved this issue. We found out very late last night that, notwithstanding the fact that the Transport Forum WA had told us that it had made real progress and was almost there, the rally would still go ahead. We had an obligation to act. Our people came in at 11 o’clock last night, and a letter was finalised so that the operators would know our side of the story. We wanted to tell them what changes had been agreed to - the degree of independence for the referee and the removal of various provisions relating to psychological testing that had been agreed on. It was important that they understood that if they were being asked to go to a rally. We do not apologise for working through the night to try to resolve these issues. Far from being arrogant, we want to make sure that each and every bus operator understands the story from both perspectives. We are not prepared to deal simply with the representatives if we are not confident that our version of events is not getting through. I am confident that we can resolve this matter. We have a deadline to have these contracts signed off by mid January. I urge all parties to sit down and make their cases and we can negotiate these issues.
The SPEAKER: Order! It is absolutely impossible for question time to start unless we allow someone to ask a question. Mr C.J. BARNETT: I refer the minister to her refusal to grant school bus operators rolling leases, which are necessary to provide these operators with the security of tenure and the resource to maintain services and safety for children in this State. (1) Can the minister confirm that she intends to grant rolling leases without going to open tender to passenger bus operators in Port Hedland and some other areas, while refusing to do the same for school bus operators? (2) Can the minister confirm that she has informed the Pastoralists and Graziers Association that the Cabinet and the Government consider rolling pastoral leases to be preferable to perpetual leases? (3) Why is the minister promoting and granting rolling leases to everyone else, but attempting to bully and intimidate school bus operators into perpetual leases? (4) Does the minister consider it appropriate behaviour to send an intimidatory fax to country school bus operators at 2.00 am today and, if not, will she now apologise to those operators and their families for the disturbance and, in some cases, distress she has caused them? Ms A.J. MacTIERNAN replied: (1)-(4) The Opposition was in government for eight years, and it could not bring this issue to resolution. If this is truly what the previous Government wanted to do, it could easily have done it, but the Opposition knows, and the Government knows, that perpetual leases are simply not an option. Granting a perpetual lease to somebody with a five-year contract cannot be justified without a tender process. This issue limped on for the eight years of the previous Government, and it was unable to bring this matter to any resolution. The Government said it would take this matter up. It indicated that it would move away from the standard rate model to a composite rate model, and at the same time introduce some security of tenure for the operators. There has been a great deal of concern on the part of the bus operators that, during the life of the previous Government, they were not able to get anything more than five-year leases. Two years ago, in recognition of the ambiguity about the nature of their contracts, this Government offered these bus operators a package involving contracts of 20 to 25 years. The current holders of five-year leases would be offered 20 to 25-year leases. A large assembly of bus operators voted overwhelmingly to support that measure. Interestingly, at a subsequent meeting the member for Carine hopped up and said that the Opposition had now changed its stand. It had not been prepared to do anything for the operators when in government, but now in opposition it would give them perpetual leases. Even the lawyer who was present said that that was nonsense; the operators would not get perpetual leases and they should stick with the 20 to 25-year leases. The Motor Trade Association, which represents a relatively small group of the bus operators - who tend to be the larger operators with 10 to 20 buses - believes that the operators have a legal entitlement to perpetual leases. I have always said to these operators that, if that is their view, there is no requirement on them to sign the contract the Government is presenting to them. The only way they can proceed with this matter is to test their claim for perpetual leases in the court. They have a fighting fund, but they will not take a case to court, because they know that the chances of winning that case are so minute as to be not worth the risk. The overwhelming majority of operators have accepted that the 20 to 25-year lease is their best option. We have been having discussions over the past couple of days about the detail of the package. The financial package that gives them an extra $4.7 million a year was signed in the middle of the year, but now we are trying to negotiate the detail that will regulate this $1 billion worth of contracts over the next 25 years. There will need to be some fairly detailed provisions. The Government has a duty of care to the children, and must make sure that it has adequate safeguards. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER: Order! I call to order for the first time the members for Carine and Moore. Ms A.J. MacTIERNAN: The Government must make sure that it has sufficient control to protect the interests of the taxpayers and the students. There will be some argument about where the line should be drawn, but we have introduced some incredible provisions. An independent arbitrator will determine the adjustments each year. An independent tribunal has been introduced to hear complaints of bus operators about the implementation of the various control mechanisms. Some robust discussions will go on over the next couple of weeks. Mr C.J. Barnett: Arrogant minister! Ms A.J. MacTIERNAN: The Opposition had eight years to deal with the issue and did not do so, but by the end of three years this Government will have resolved this issue. We found out very late last night that, notwithstanding the fact that the Transport Forum WA had told us that it had made real progress and was almost there, the rally would still go ahead. We had an obligation to act. Our people came in at 11 o’clock last night, and a letter was finalised so that the operators would know our side of the story. We wanted to tell them what changes had been agreed to - the degree of independence for the referee and the removal of various provisions relating to psychological testing that had been agreed on. It was important that they understood that if they were being asked to go to a rally. We do not apologise for working through the night to try to resolve these issues. Far from being arrogant, we want to make sure that each and every bus operator understands the story from both perspectives. We are not prepared to deal simply with the representatives if we are not confident that our version of events is not getting through. I am confident that we can resolve this matter. We have a deadline to have these contracts signed off by mid January. I urge all parties to sit down and make their cases and we can negotiate these issues.
Mr C.J. BARNETT: I refer the minister to her refusal to grant school bus operators rolling leases, which are necessary to provide these operators with the security of tenure and the resource to maintain services and safety for children in this State. (1) Can the minister confirm that she intends to grant rolling leases without going to open tender to passenger bus operators in Port Hedland and some other areas, while refusing to do the same for school bus operators? (2) Can the minister confirm that she has informed the Pastoralists and Graziers Association that the Cabinet and the Government consider rolling pastoral leases to be preferable to perpetual leases? (3) Why is the minister promoting and granting rolling leases to everyone else, but attempting to bully and intimidate school bus operators into perpetual leases? (4) Does the minister consider it appropriate behaviour to send an intimidatory fax to country school bus operators at 2.00 am today and, if not, will she now apologise to those operators and their families for the disturbance and, in some cases, distress she has caused them? Ms A.J. MacTIERNAN replied: (1)-(4) The Opposition was in government for eight years, and it could not bring this issue to resolution. If this is truly what the previous Government wanted to do, it could easily have done it, but the Opposition knows, and the Government knows, that perpetual leases are simply not an option. Granting a perpetual lease to somebody with a five-year contract cannot be justified without a tender process. This issue limped on for the eight years of the previous Government, and it was unable to bring this matter to any resolution. The Government said it would take this matter up. It indicated that it would move away from the standard rate model to a composite rate model, and at the same time introduce some security of tenure for the operators. There has been a great deal of concern on the part of the bus operators that, during the life of the previous Government, they were not able to get anything more than five-year leases. Two years ago, in recognition of the ambiguity about the nature of their contracts, this Government offered these bus operators a package involving contracts of 20 to 25 years. The current holders of five-year leases would be offered 20 to 25-year leases. A large assembly of bus operators voted overwhelmingly to support that measure. Interestingly, at a subsequent meeting the member for Carine hopped up and said that the Opposition had now changed its stand. It had not been prepared to do anything for the operators when in government, but now in opposition it would give them perpetual leases. Even the lawyer who was present said that that was nonsense; the operators would not get perpetual leases and they should stick with the 20 to 25-year leases. The Motor Trade Association, which represents a relatively small group of the bus operators - who tend to be the larger operators with 10 to 20 buses - believes that the operators have a legal entitlement to perpetual leases. I have always said to these operators that, if that is their view, there is no requirement on them to sign the contract the Government is presenting to them. The only way they can proceed with this matter is to test their claim for perpetual leases in the court. They have a fighting fund, but they will not take a case to court, because they know that the chances of winning that case are so minute as to be not worth the risk. The overwhelming majority of operators have accepted that the 20 to 25-year lease is their best option. We have been having discussions over the past couple of days about the detail of the package. The financial package that gives them an extra $4.7 million a year was signed in the middle of the year, but now we are trying to negotiate the detail that will regulate this $1 billion worth of contracts over the next 25 years. There will need to be some fairly detailed provisions. The Government has a duty of care to the children, and must make sure that it has adequate safeguards. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER: Order! I call to order for the first time the members for Carine and Moore. Ms A.J. MacTIERNAN: The Government must make sure that it has sufficient control to protect the interests of the taxpayers and the students. There will be some argument about where the line should be drawn, but we have introduced some incredible provisions. An independent arbitrator will determine the adjustments each year. An independent tribunal has been introduced to hear complaints of bus operators about the implementation of the various control mechanisms. Some robust discussions will go on over the next couple of weeks. Mr C.J. Barnett: Arrogant minister! Ms A.J. MacTIERNAN: The Opposition had eight years to deal with the issue and did not do so, but by the end of three years this Government will have resolved this issue. We found out very late last night that, notwithstanding the fact that the Transport Forum WA had told us that it had made real progress and was almost there, the rally would still go ahead. We had an obligation to act. Our people came in at 11 o’clock last night, and a letter was finalised so that the operators would know our side of the story. We wanted to tell them what changes had been agreed to - the degree of independence for the referee and the removal of various provisions relating to psychological testing that had been agreed on. It was important that they understood that if they were being asked to go to a rally. We do not apologise for working through the night to try to resolve these issues. Far from being arrogant, we want to make sure that each and every bus operator understands the story from both perspectives. We are not prepared to deal simply with the representatives if we are not confident that our version of events is not getting through. I am confident that we can resolve this matter. We have a deadline to have these contracts signed off by mid January. I urge all parties to sit down and make their cases and we can negotiate these issues.
(1) Can the minister confirm that she intends to grant rolling leases without going to open tender to passenger bus operators in Port Hedland and some other areas, while refusing to do the same for school bus operators? (2) Can the minister confirm that she has informed the Pastoralists and Graziers Association that the Cabinet and the Government consider rolling pastoral leases to be preferable to perpetual leases? (3) Why is the minister promoting and granting rolling leases to everyone else, but attempting to bully and intimidate school bus operators into perpetual leases? (4) Does the minister consider it appropriate behaviour to send an intimidatory fax to country school bus operators at 2.00 am today and, if not, will she now apologise to those operators and their families for the disturbance and, in some cases, distress she has caused them? Ms A.J. MacTIERNAN replied: (1)-(4) The Opposition was in government for eight years, and it could not bring this issue to resolution. If this is truly what the previous Government wanted to do, it could easily have done it, but the Opposition knows, and the Government knows, that perpetual leases are simply not an option. Granting a perpetual lease to somebody with a five-year contract cannot be justified without a tender process. This issue limped on for the eight years of the previous Government, and it was unable to bring this matter to any resolution. The Government said it would take this matter up. It indicated that it would move away from the standard rate model to a composite rate model, and at the same time introduce some security of tenure for the operators. There has been a great deal of concern on the part of the bus operators that, during the life of the previous Government, they were not able to get anything more than five-year leases. Two years ago, in recognition of the ambiguity about the nature of their contracts, this Government offered these bus operators a package involving contracts of 20 to 25 years. The current holders of five-year leases would be offered 20 to 25-year leases. A large assembly of bus operators voted overwhelmingly to support that measure. Interestingly, at a subsequent meeting the member for Carine hopped up and said that the Opposition had now changed its stand. It had not been prepared to do anything for the operators when in government, but now in opposition it would give them perpetual leases. Even the lawyer who was present said that that was nonsense; the operators would not get perpetual leases and they should stick with the 20 to 25-year leases. The Motor Trade Association, which represents a relatively small group of the bus operators - who tend to be the larger operators with 10 to 20 buses - believes that the operators have a legal entitlement to perpetual leases. I have always said to these operators that, if that is their view, there is no requirement on them to sign the contract the Government is presenting to them. The only way they can proceed with this matter is to test their claim for perpetual leases in the court. They have a fighting fund, but they will not take a case to court, because they know that the chances of winning that case are so minute as to be not worth the risk. The overwhelming majority of operators have accepted that the 20 to 25-year lease is their best option. We have been having discussions over the past couple of days about the detail of the package. The financial package that gives them an extra $4.7 million a year was signed in the middle of the year, but now we are trying to negotiate the detail that will regulate this $1 billion worth of contracts over the next 25 years. There will need to be some fairly detailed provisions. The Government has a duty of care to the children, and must make sure that it has adequate safeguards. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER: Order! I call to order for the first time the members for Carine and Moore. Ms A.J. MacTIERNAN: The Government must make sure that it has sufficient control to protect the interests of the taxpayers and the students. There will be some argument about where the line should be drawn, but we have introduced some incredible provisions. An independent arbitrator will determine the adjustments each year. An independent tribunal has been introduced to hear complaints of bus operators about the implementation of the various control mechanisms. Some robust discussions will go on over the next couple of weeks. Mr C.J. Barnett: Arrogant minister! Ms A.J. MacTIERNAN: The Opposition had eight years to deal with the issue and did not do so, but by the end of three years this Government will have resolved this issue. We found out very late last night that, notwithstanding the fact that the Transport Forum WA had told us that it had made real progress and was almost there, the rally would still go ahead. We had an obligation to act. Our people came in at 11 o’clock last night, and a letter was finalised so that the operators would know our side of the story. We wanted to tell them what changes had been agreed to - the degree of independence for the referee and the removal of various provisions relating to psychological testing that had been agreed on. It was important that they understood that if they were being asked to go to a rally. We do not apologise for working through the night to try to resolve these issues. Far from being arrogant, we want to make sure that each and every bus operator understands the story from both perspectives. We are not prepared to deal simply with the representatives if we are not confident that our version of events is not getting through. I am confident that we can resolve this matter. We have a deadline to have these contracts signed off by mid January. I urge all parties to sit down and make their cases and we can negotiate these issues.
(2) Can the minister confirm that she has informed the Pastoralists and Graziers Association that the Cabinet and the Government consider rolling pastoral leases to be preferable to perpetual leases? (3) Why is the minister promoting and granting rolling leases to everyone else, but attempting to bully and intimidate school bus operators into perpetual leases? (4) Does the minister consider it appropriate behaviour to send an intimidatory fax to country school bus operators at 2.00 am today and, if not, will she now apologise to those operators and their families for the disturbance and, in some cases, distress she has caused them? Ms A.J. MacTIERNAN replied: (1)-(4) The Opposition was in government for eight years, and it could not bring this issue to resolution. If this is truly what the previous Government wanted to do, it could easily have done it, but the Opposition knows, and the Government knows, that perpetual leases are simply not an option. Granting a perpetual lease to somebody with a five-year contract cannot be justified without a tender process. This issue limped on for the eight years of the previous Government, and it was unable to bring this matter to any resolution. The Government said it would take this matter up. It indicated that it would move away from the standard rate model to a composite rate model, and at the same time introduce some security of tenure for the operators. There has been a great deal of concern on the part of the bus operators that, during the life of the previous Government, they were not able to get anything more than five-year leases. Two years ago, in recognition of the ambiguity about the nature of their contracts, this Government offered these bus operators a package involving contracts of 20 to 25 years. The current holders of five-year leases would be offered 20 to 25-year leases. A large assembly of bus operators voted overwhelmingly to support that measure. Interestingly, at a subsequent meeting the member for Carine hopped up and said that the Opposition had now changed its stand. It had not been prepared to do anything for the operators when in government, but now in opposition it would give them perpetual leases. Even the lawyer who was present said that that was nonsense; the operators would not get perpetual leases and they should stick with the 20 to 25-year leases. The Motor Trade Association, which represents a relatively small group of the bus operators - who tend to be the larger operators with 10 to 20 buses - believes that the operators have a legal entitlement to perpetual leases. I have always said to these operators that, if that is their view, there is no requirement on them to sign the contract the Government is presenting to them. The only way they can proceed with this matter is to test their claim for perpetual leases in the court. They have a fighting fund, but they will not take a case to court, because they know that the chances of winning that case are so minute as to be not worth the risk. The overwhelming majority of operators have accepted that the 20 to 25-year lease is their best option. We have been having discussions over the past couple of days about the detail of the package. The financial package that gives them an extra $4.7 million a year was signed in the middle of the year, but now we are trying to negotiate the detail that will regulate this $1 billion worth of contracts over the next 25 years. There will need to be some fairly detailed provisions. The Government has a duty of care to the children, and must make sure that it has adequate safeguards. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER: Order! I call to order for the first time the members for Carine and Moore. Ms A.J. MacTIERNAN: The Government must make sure that it has sufficient control to protect the interests of the taxpayers and the students. There will be some argument about where the line should be drawn, but we have introduced some incredible provisions. An independent arbitrator will determine the adjustments each year. An independent tribunal has been introduced to hear complaints of bus operators about the implementation of the various control mechanisms. Some robust discussions will go on over the next couple of weeks. Mr C.J. Barnett: Arrogant minister! Ms A.J. MacTIERNAN: The Opposition had eight years to deal with the issue and did not do so, but by the end of three years this Government will have resolved this issue. We found out very late last night that, notwithstanding the fact that the Transport Forum WA had told us that it had made real progress and was almost there, the rally would still go ahead. We had an obligation to act. Our people came in at 11 o’clock last night, and a letter was finalised so that the operators would know our side of the story. We wanted to tell them what changes had been agreed to - the degree of independence for the referee and the removal of various provisions relating to psychological testing that had been agreed on. It was important that they understood that if they were being asked to go to a rally. We do not apologise for working through the night to try to resolve these issues. Far from being arrogant, we want to make sure that each and every bus operator understands the story from both perspectives. We are not prepared to deal simply with the representatives if we are not confident that our version of events is not getting through. I am confident that we can resolve this matter. We have a deadline to have these contracts signed off by mid January. I urge all parties to sit down and make their cases and we can negotiate these issues.
(3) Why is the minister promoting and granting rolling leases to everyone else, but attempting to bully and intimidate school bus operators into perpetual leases? (4) Does the minister consider it appropriate behaviour to send an intimidatory fax to country school bus operators at 2.00 am today and, if not, will she now apologise to those operators and their families for the disturbance and, in some cases, distress she has caused them? Ms A.J. MacTIERNAN replied: (1)-(4) The Opposition was in government for eight years, and it could not bring this issue to resolution. If this is truly what the previous Government wanted to do, it could easily have done it, but the Opposition knows, and the Government knows, that perpetual leases are simply not an option. Granting a perpetual lease to somebody with a five-year contract cannot be justified without a tender process. This issue limped on for the eight years of the previous Government, and it was unable to bring this matter to any resolution. The Government said it would take this matter up. It indicated that it would move away from the standard rate model to a composite rate model, and at the same time introduce some security of tenure for the operators. There has been a great deal of concern on the part of the bus operators that, during the life of the previous Government, they were not able to get anything more than five-year leases. Two years ago, in recognition of the ambiguity about the nature of their contracts, this Government offered these bus operators a package involving contracts of 20 to 25 years. The current holders of five-year leases would be offered 20 to 25-year leases. A large assembly of bus operators voted overwhelmingly to support that measure. Interestingly, at a subsequent meeting the member for Carine hopped up and said that the Opposition had now changed its stand. It had not been prepared to do anything for the operators when in government, but now in opposition it would give them perpetual leases. Even the lawyer who was present said that that was nonsense; the operators would not get perpetual leases and they should stick with the 20 to 25-year leases. The Motor Trade Association, which represents a relatively small group of the bus operators - who tend to be the larger operators with 10 to 20 buses - believes that the operators have a legal entitlement to perpetual leases. I have always said to these operators that, if that is their view, there is no requirement on them to sign the contract the Government is presenting to them. The only way they can proceed with this matter is to test their claim for perpetual leases in the court. They have a fighting fund, but they will not take a case to court, because they know that the chances of winning that case are so minute as to be not worth the risk. The overwhelming majority of operators have accepted that the 20 to 25-year lease is their best option. We have been having discussions over the past couple of days about the detail of the package. The financial package that gives them an extra $4.7 million a year was signed in the middle of the year, but now we are trying to negotiate the detail that will regulate this $1 billion worth of contracts over the next 25 years. There will need to be some fairly detailed provisions. The Government has a duty of care to the children, and must make sure that it has adequate safeguards. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER: Order! I call to order for the first time the members for Carine and Moore. Ms A.J. MacTIERNAN: The Government must make sure that it has sufficient control to protect the interests of the taxpayers and the students. There will be some argument about where the line should be drawn, but we have introduced some incredible provisions. An independent arbitrator will determine the adjustments each year. An independent tribunal has been introduced to hear complaints of bus operators about the implementation of the various control mechanisms. Some robust discussions will go on over the next couple of weeks. Mr C.J. Barnett: Arrogant minister! Ms A.J. MacTIERNAN: The Opposition had eight years to deal with the issue and did not do so, but by the end of three years this Government will have resolved this issue. We found out very late last night that, notwithstanding the fact that the Transport Forum WA had told us that it had made real progress and was almost there, the rally would still go ahead. We had an obligation to act. Our people came in at 11 o’clock last night, and a letter was finalised so that the operators would know our side of the story. We wanted to tell them what changes had been agreed to - the degree of independence for the referee and the removal of various provisions relating to psychological testing that had been agreed on. It was important that they understood that if they were being asked to go to a rally. We do not apologise for working through the night to try to resolve these issues. Far from being arrogant, we want to make sure that each and every bus operator understands the story from both perspectives. We are not prepared to deal simply with the representatives if we are not confident that our version of events is not getting through. I am confident that we can resolve this matter. We have a deadline to have these contracts signed off by mid January. I urge all parties to sit down and make their cases and we can negotiate these issues.
(4) Does the minister consider it appropriate behaviour to send an intimidatory fax to country school bus operators at 2.00 am today and, if not, will she now apologise to those operators and their families for the disturbance and, in some cases, distress she has caused them? Ms A.J. MacTIERNAN replied: (1)-(4) The Opposition was in government for eight years, and it could not bring this issue to resolution. If this is truly what the previous Government wanted to do, it could easily have done it, but the Opposition knows, and the Government knows, that perpetual leases are simply not an option. Granting a perpetual lease to somebody with a five-year contract cannot be justified without a tender process. This issue limped on for the eight years of the previous Government, and it was unable to bring this matter to any resolution. The Government said it would take this matter up. It indicated that it would move away from the standard rate model to a composite rate model, and at the same time introduce some security of tenure for the operators. There has been a great deal of concern on the part of the bus operators that, during the life of the previous Government, they were not able to get anything more than five-year leases. Two years ago, in recognition of the ambiguity about the nature of their contracts, this Government offered these bus operators a package involving contracts of 20 to 25 years. The current holders of five-year leases would be offered 20 to 25-year leases. A large assembly of bus operators voted overwhelmingly to support that measure. Interestingly, at a subsequent meeting the member for Carine hopped up and said that the Opposition had now changed its stand. It had not been prepared to do anything for the operators when in government, but now in opposition it would give them perpetual leases. Even the lawyer who was present said that that was nonsense; the operators would not get perpetual leases and they should stick with the 20 to 25-year leases. The Motor Trade Association, which represents a relatively small group of the bus operators - who tend to be the larger operators with 10 to 20 buses - believes that the operators have a legal entitlement to perpetual leases. I have always said to these operators that, if that is their view, there is no requirement on them to sign the contract the Government is presenting to them. The only way they can proceed with this matter is to test their claim for perpetual leases in the court. They have a fighting fund, but they will not take a case to court, because they know that the chances of winning that case are so minute as to be not worth the risk. The overwhelming majority of operators have accepted that the 20 to 25-year lease is their best option. We have been having discussions over the past couple of days about the detail of the package. The financial package that gives them an extra $4.7 million a year was signed in the middle of the year, but now we are trying to negotiate the detail that will regulate this $1 billion worth of contracts over the next 25 years. There will need to be some fairly detailed provisions. The Government has a duty of care to the children, and must make sure that it has adequate safeguards. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER: Order! I call to order for the first time the members for Carine and Moore. Ms A.J. MacTIERNAN: The Government must make sure that it has sufficient control to protect the interests of the taxpayers and the students. There will be some argument about where the line should be drawn, but we have introduced some incredible provisions. An independent arbitrator will determine the adjustments each year. An independent tribunal has been introduced to hear complaints of bus operators about the implementation of the various control mechanisms. Some robust discussions will go on over the next couple of weeks. Mr C.J. Barnett: Arrogant minister! Ms A.J. MacTIERNAN: The Opposition had eight years to deal with the issue and did not do so, but by the end of three years this Government will have resolved this issue. We found out very late last night that, notwithstanding the fact that the Transport Forum WA had told us that it had made real progress and was almost there, the rally would still go ahead. We had an obligation to act. Our people came in at 11 o’clock last night, and a letter was finalised so that the operators would know our side of the story. We wanted to tell them what changes had been agreed to - the degree of independence for the referee and the removal of various provisions relating to psychological testing that had been agreed on. It was important that they understood that if they were being asked to go to a rally. We do not apologise for working through the night to try to resolve these issues. Far from being arrogant, we want to make sure that each and every bus operator understands the story from both perspectives. We are not prepared to deal simply with the representatives if we are not confident that our version of events is not getting through. I am confident that we can resolve this matter. We have a deadline to have these contracts signed off by mid January. I urge all parties to sit down and make their cases and we can negotiate these issues.
Ms A.J. MacTIERNAN replied: (1)-(4) The Opposition was in government for eight years, and it could not bring this issue to resolution. If this is truly what the previous Government wanted to do, it could easily have done it, but the Opposition knows, and the Government knows, that perpetual leases are simply not an option. Granting a perpetual lease to somebody with a five-year contract cannot be justified without a tender process. This issue limped on for the eight years of the previous Government, and it was unable to bring this matter to any resolution. The Government said it would take this matter up. It indicated that it would move away from the standard rate model to a composite rate model, and at the same time introduce some security of tenure for the operators. There has been a great deal of concern on the part of the bus operators that, during the life of the previous Government, they were not able to get anything more than five-year leases. Two years ago, in recognition of the ambiguity about the nature of their contracts, this Government offered these bus operators a package involving contracts of 20 to 25 years. The current holders of five-year leases would be offered 20 to 25-year leases. A large assembly of bus operators voted overwhelmingly to support that measure. Interestingly, at a subsequent meeting the member for Carine hopped up and said that the Opposition had now changed its stand. It had not been prepared to do anything for the operators when in government, but now in opposition it would give them perpetual leases. Even the lawyer who was present said that that was nonsense; the operators would not get perpetual leases and they should stick with the 20 to 25-year leases. The Motor Trade Association, which represents a relatively small group of the bus operators - who tend to be the larger operators with 10 to 20 buses - believes that the operators have a legal entitlement to perpetual leases. I have always said to these operators that, if that is their view, there is no requirement on them to sign the contract the Government is presenting to them. The only way they can proceed with this matter is to test their claim for perpetual leases in the court. They have a fighting fund, but they will not take a case to court, because they know that the chances of winning that case are so minute as to be not worth the risk. The overwhelming majority of operators have accepted that the 20 to 25-year lease is their best option. We have been having discussions over the past couple of days about the detail of the package. The financial package that gives them an extra $4.7 million a year was signed in the middle of the year, but now we are trying to negotiate the detail that will regulate this $1 billion worth of contracts over the next 25 years. There will need to be some fairly detailed provisions. The Government has a duty of care to the children, and must make sure that it has adequate safeguards. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER: Order! I call to order for the first time the members for Carine and Moore. Ms A.J. MacTIERNAN: The Government must make sure that it has sufficient control to protect the interests of the taxpayers and the students. There will be some argument about where the line should be drawn, but we have introduced some incredible provisions. An independent arbitrator will determine the adjustments each year. An independent tribunal has been introduced to hear complaints of bus operators about the implementation of the various control mechanisms. Some robust discussions will go on over the next couple of weeks. Mr C.J. Barnett: Arrogant minister! Ms A.J. MacTIERNAN: The Opposition had eight years to deal with the issue and did not do so, but by the end of three years this Government will have resolved this issue. We found out very late last night that, notwithstanding the fact that the Transport Forum WA had told us that it had made real progress and was almost there, the rally would still go ahead. We had an obligation to act. Our people came in at 11 o’clock last night, and a letter was finalised so that the operators would know our side of the story. We wanted to tell them what changes had been agreed to - the degree of independence for the referee and the removal of various provisions relating to psychological testing that had been agreed on. It was important that they understood that if they were being asked to go to a rally. We do not apologise for working through the night to try to resolve these issues. Far from being arrogant, we want to make sure that each and every bus operator understands the story from both perspectives. We are not prepared to deal simply with the representatives if we are not confident that our version of events is not getting through. I am confident that we can resolve this matter. We have a deadline to have these contracts signed off by mid January. I urge all parties to sit down and make their cases and we can negotiate these issues.
(1)-(4) The Opposition was in government for eight years, and it could not bring this issue to resolution. If this is truly what the previous Government wanted to do, it could easily have done it, but the Opposition knows, and the Government knows, that perpetual leases are simply not an option. Granting a perpetual lease to somebody with a five-year contract cannot be justified without a tender process. This issue limped on for the eight years of the previous Government, and it was unable to bring this matter to any resolution. The Government said it would take this matter up. It indicated that it would move away from the standard rate model to a composite rate model, and at the same time introduce some security of tenure for the operators. There has been a great deal of concern on the part of the bus operators that, during the life of the previous Government, they were not able to get anything more than five-year leases. Two years ago, in recognition of the ambiguity about the nature of their contracts, this Government offered these bus operators a package involving contracts of 20 to 25 years. The current holders of five-year leases would be offered 20 to 25-year leases. A large assembly of bus operators voted overwhelmingly to support that measure. Interestingly, at a subsequent meeting the member for Carine hopped up and said that the Opposition had now changed its stand. It had not been prepared to do anything for the operators when in government, but now in opposition it would give them perpetual leases. Even the lawyer who was present said that that was nonsense; the operators would not get perpetual leases and they should stick with the 20 to 25-year leases. The Motor Trade Association, which represents a relatively small group of the bus operators - who tend to be the larger operators with 10 to 20 buses - believes that the operators have a legal entitlement to perpetual leases. I have always said to these operators that, if that is their view, there is no requirement on them to sign the contract the Government is presenting to them. The only way they can proceed with this matter is to test their claim for perpetual leases in the court. They have a fighting fund, but they will not take a case to court, because they know that the chances of winning that case are so minute as to be not worth the risk. The overwhelming majority of operators have accepted that the 20 to 25-year lease is their best option. We have been having discussions over the past couple of days about the detail of the package. The financial package that gives them an extra $4.7 million a year was signed in the middle of the year, but now we are trying to negotiate the detail that will regulate this $1 billion worth of contracts over the next 25 years. There will need to be some fairly detailed provisions. The Government has a duty of care to the children, and must make sure that it has adequate safeguards. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER: Order! I call to order for the first time the members for Carine and Moore. Ms A.J. MacTIERNAN: The Government must make sure that it has sufficient control to protect the interests of the taxpayers and the students. There will be some argument about where the line should be drawn, but we have introduced some incredible provisions. An independent arbitrator will determine the adjustments each year. An independent tribunal has been introduced to hear complaints of bus operators about the implementation of the various control mechanisms. Some robust discussions will go on over the next couple of weeks. Mr C.J. Barnett: Arrogant minister! Ms A.J. MacTIERNAN: The Opposition had eight years to deal with the issue and did not do so, but by the end of three years this Government will have resolved this issue. We found out very late last night that, notwithstanding the fact that the Transport Forum WA had told us that it had made real progress and was almost there, the rally would still go ahead. We had an obligation to act. Our people came in at 11 o’clock last night, and a letter was finalised so that the operators would know our side of the story. We wanted to tell them what changes had been agreed to - the degree of independence for the referee and the removal of various provisions relating to psychological testing that had been agreed on. It was important that they understood that if they were being asked to go to a rally. We do not apologise for working through the night to try to resolve these issues. Far from being arrogant, we want to make sure that each and every bus operator understands the story from both perspectives. We are not prepared to deal simply with the representatives if we are not confident that our version of events is not getting through. I am confident that we can resolve this matter. We have a deadline to have these contracts signed off by mid January. I urge all parties to sit down and make their cases and we can negotiate these issues.
The Motor Trade Association, which represents a relatively small group of the bus operators - who tend to be the larger operators with 10 to 20 buses - believes that the operators have a legal entitlement to perpetual leases. I have always said to these operators that, if that is their view, there is no requirement on them to sign the contract the Government is presenting to them. The only way they can proceed with this matter is to test their claim for perpetual leases in the court. They have a fighting fund, but they will not take a case to court, because they know that the chances of winning that case are so minute as to be not worth the risk. The overwhelming majority of operators have accepted that the 20 to 25-year lease is their best option. We have been having discussions over the past couple of days about the detail of the package. The financial package that gives them an extra $4.7 million a year was signed in the middle of the year, but now we are trying to negotiate the detail that will regulate this $1 billion worth of contracts over the next 25 years. There will need to be some fairly detailed provisions. The Government has a duty of care to the children, and must make sure that it has adequate safeguards.
We have been having discussions over the past couple of days about the detail of the package. The financial package that gives them an extra $4.7 million a year was signed in the middle of the year, but now we are trying to negotiate the detail that will regulate this $1 billion worth of contracts over the next 25 years. There will need to be some fairly detailed provisions. The Government has a duty of care to the children, and must make sure that it has adequate safeguards.
The SPEAKER: Order! I call to order for the first time the members for Carine and Moore. Ms A.J. MacTIERNAN: The Government must make sure that it has sufficient control to protect the interests of the taxpayers and the students. There will be some argument about where the line should be drawn, but we have introduced some incredible provisions. An independent arbitrator will determine the adjustments each year. An independent tribunal has been introduced to hear complaints of bus operators about the implementation of the various control mechanisms. Some robust discussions will go on over the next couple of weeks. Mr C.J. Barnett: Arrogant minister! Ms A.J. MacTIERNAN: The Opposition had eight years to deal with the issue and did not do so, but by the end of three years this Government will have resolved this issue. We found out very late last night that, notwithstanding the fact that the Transport Forum WA had told us that it had made real progress and was almost there, the rally would still go ahead. We had an obligation to act. Our people came in at 11 o’clock last night, and a letter was finalised so that the operators would know our side of the story. We wanted to tell them what changes had been agreed to - the degree of independence for the referee and the removal of various provisions relating to psychological testing that had been agreed on. It was important that they understood that if they were being asked to go to a rally. We do not apologise for working through the night to try to resolve these issues. Far from being arrogant, we want to make sure that each and every bus operator understands the story from both perspectives. We are not prepared to deal simply with the representatives if we are not confident that our version of events is not getting through. I am confident that we can resolve this matter. We have a deadline to have these contracts signed off by mid January. I urge all parties to sit down and make their cases and we can negotiate these issues.
Ms A.J. MacTIERNAN: The Government must make sure that it has sufficient control to protect the interests of the taxpayers and the students. There will be some argument about where the line should be drawn, but we have introduced some incredible provisions. An independent arbitrator will determine the adjustments each year. An independent tribunal has been introduced to hear complaints of bus operators about the implementation of the various control mechanisms. Some robust discussions will go on over the next couple of weeks. Mr C.J. Barnett: Arrogant minister! Ms A.J. MacTIERNAN: The Opposition had eight years to deal with the issue and did not do so, but by the end of three years this Government will have resolved this issue. We found out very late last night that, notwithstanding the fact that the Transport Forum WA had told us that it had made real progress and was almost there, the rally would still go ahead. We had an obligation to act. Our people came in at 11 o’clock last night, and a letter was finalised so that the operators would know our side of the story. We wanted to tell them what changes had been agreed to - the degree of independence for the referee and the removal of various provisions relating to psychological testing that had been agreed on. It was important that they understood that if they were being asked to go to a rally. We do not apologise for working through the night to try to resolve these issues. Far from being arrogant, we want to make sure that each and every bus operator understands the story from both perspectives. We are not prepared to deal simply with the representatives if we are not confident that our version of events is not getting through. I am confident that we can resolve this matter. We have a deadline to have these contracts signed off by mid January. I urge all parties to sit down and make their cases and we can negotiate these issues.
Mr C.J. Barnett: Arrogant minister! Ms A.J. MacTIERNAN: The Opposition had eight years to deal with the issue and did not do so, but by the end of three years this Government will have resolved this issue. We found out very late last night that, notwithstanding the fact that the Transport Forum WA had told us that it had made real progress and was almost there, the rally would still go ahead. We had an obligation to act. Our people came in at 11 o’clock last night, and a letter was finalised so that the operators would know our side of the story. We wanted to tell them what changes had been agreed to - the degree of independence for the referee and the removal of various provisions relating to psychological testing that had been agreed on. It was important that they understood that if they were being asked to go to a rally. We do not apologise for working through the night to try to resolve these issues. Far from being arrogant, we want to make sure that each and every bus operator understands the story from both perspectives. We are not prepared to deal simply with the representatives if we are not confident that our version of events is not getting through. I am confident that we can resolve this matter. We have a deadline to have these contracts signed off by mid January. I urge all parties to sit down and make their cases and we can negotiate these issues.
Ms A.J. MacTIERNAN: The Opposition had eight years to deal with the issue and did not do so, but by the end of three years this Government will have resolved this issue. We found out very late last night that, notwithstanding the fact that the Transport Forum WA had told us that it had made real progress and was almost there, the rally would still go ahead. We had an obligation to act. Our people came in at 11 o’clock last night, and a letter was finalised so that the operators would know our side of the story. We wanted to tell them what changes had been agreed to - the degree of independence for the referee and the removal of various provisions relating to psychological testing that had been agreed on. It was important that they understood that if they were being asked to go to a rally. We do not apologise for working through the night to try to resolve these issues. Far from being arrogant, we want to make sure that each and every bus operator understands the story from both perspectives. We are not prepared to deal simply with the representatives if we are not confident that our version of events is not getting through. I am confident that we can resolve this matter. We have a deadline to have these contracts signed off by mid January. I urge all parties to sit down and make their cases and we can negotiate these issues.
We found out very late last night that, notwithstanding the fact that the Transport Forum WA had told us that it had made real progress and was almost there, the rally would still go ahead. We had an obligation to act. Our people came in at 11 o’clock last night, and a letter was finalised so that the operators would know our side of the story. We wanted to tell them what changes had been agreed to - the degree of independence for the referee and the removal of various provisions relating to psychological testing that had been agreed on. It was important that they understood that if they were being asked to go to a rally. We do not apologise for working through the night to try to resolve these issues. Far from being arrogant, we want to make sure that each and every bus operator understands the story from both perspectives. We are not prepared to deal simply with the representatives if we are not confident that our version of events is not getting through. I am confident that we can resolve this matter. We have a deadline to have these contracts signed off by mid January. I urge all parties to sit down and make their cases and we can negotiate these issues.
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