❓ Mr. Hyde questions the Minister for Lands about fraudulent property sales facilitated by Landgate. The Minister responds, outlining steps taken and planned, while facing interjections and skepticism from the opposition.
AnsweredQoN 465Legislative Assembly
QuestionView source ↗
LANDGATE — FRAUDULENT PROPERTY SALES
I refer to cases of Landgate allowing Western Australian houses to be sold out from under their owners by international scammers. (1) When did the minister first approach the Attorney General to resolve this issue through new laws? (2) When will the minister introduce these new laws to the Parliament; and did the minister consult with the Real Estate Institute of Western Australia or any stakeholders regarding these laws? (3) Why is Western Australia the major state being targeted by these fraudulent sales? Mr B.J. GRYLLS
I refer to cases of Landgate allowing Western Australian houses to be sold out from under their owners by international scammers. (1) When did the minister first approach the Attorney General to resolve this issue through new laws? (2) When will the minister introduce these new laws to the Parliament; and did the minister consult with the Real Estate Institute of Western Australia or any stakeholders regarding these laws? (3) Why is Western Australia the major state being targeted by these fraudulent sales? Mr B.J. GRYLLS
AnswerView source ↗
(1)–(3) I thank the member for Perth for the question. On the weekend I was quoted in The West Australian , when asked about the instances of people losing their houses, and as Minister for Lands I have taken a great deal of interest in this, obviously. Landgate is an agency under my responsibility, and we are very determined to make sure that we can limit as far as possible these frauds and scams happening. With regard to the issue that the member is talking about, I spoke openly with the journalist about the concern coming back to me from the community, being that the community is very concerned that people could lose their house to a scam, and that under the Torrens system, which has been established over many, many years, the compensation — Mr J.N. Hyde : You were concerned a year ago and you did nothing. The SPEAKER : Member for Perth! Mr B.J. GRYLLS : — flows to the original owner of the house, and the person who bought the house via the fraudulent sale is allowed to keep the house. It has been expressed to me by many people that they are concerned about that. I said to the journalist that I would be investigating whether there could be a change in laws that affected that. I said I would investigate that. So, I have not spoken to the Attorney General, because I was asked this on Friday when I was in my electorate office in Northam. Mr A.P. O’Gorman : You’ve done nothing! The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup! Mr B.J. GRYLLS : I also have not consulted with REIWA, but I am very happy to hear that REIWA actually understands that the place most likely to stop these frauds is at the point where a person goes to sign up a property for sale with the real estate agent. Mr J.N. Hyde : They have never said that. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : They have. They have said that they understand that they need to do much more at that point when the person wishing to sell a house comes to the real estate — Several members interjected. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : Let me finish. If members think this is so important, they will listen to the answer. Mr J.N. Hyde : So the Attorney General announced this without talking to you? The SPEAKER : Member for Perth, you have asked the question. I will give you an opportunity to ask a supplementary. I believe the minister is endeavouring to answer it. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : The real estate industry understands they are the most likely point to be able to identify a fraud. Mr J.N. Hyde interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Perth! Mr B.J. GRYLLS : At the moment, the industry has a voluntary code of conduct that says that real estate agents should do a 100-point identification check at the point of listing a property. Not all agents do that. The challenge we have as a government is that the first point this fraudulent transaction gets to government is after it is well and truly complete. Several members interjected. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : Yes it does. Just listen. Mr J.N. Hyde interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Perth, if you wish to ask a supplementary question, I am going to give you that opportunity. What I am going to ask for at the moment, though, is for you to remain silent while the minister endeavours to answer this question that you have asked; and I am sure some other people in this place are interested in the answer. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : Thank you, Mr Speaker. A person lists a property for sale. The agent goes out and sells it. They receive an offer and acceptance. The offer and acceptance is accepted by the person who listed the property for sale. Money exchanges hands. Settlement agents are engaged. Landgate does not get that document until all that has occurred. Mr W.J. Johnston : That is not true. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : The member does not know what he is talking about, then. Mr W.J. Johnston : I do know what I am talking about. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : Landgate only gets the documentation after the whole transaction has been completed. The most likely — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Perth, do you have a supplementary question?
(1) When did the minister first approach the Attorney General to resolve this issue through new laws? (2) When will the minister introduce these new laws to the Parliament; and did the minister consult with the Real Estate Institute of Western Australia or any stakeholders regarding these laws? (3) Why is Western Australia the major state being targeted by these fraudulent sales? Mr B.J. GRYLLS replied: (1)–(3) I thank the member for Perth for the question. On the weekend I was quoted in The West Australian , when asked about the instances of people losing their houses, and as Minister for Lands I have taken a great deal of interest in this, obviously. Landgate is an agency under my responsibility, and we are very determined to make sure that we can limit as far as possible these frauds and scams happening. With regard to the issue that the member is talking about, I spoke openly with the journalist about the concern coming back to me from the community, being that the community is very concerned that people could lose their house to a scam, and that under the Torrens system, which has been established over many, many years, the compensation — Mr J.N. Hyde : You were concerned a year ago and you did nothing. The SPEAKER : Member for Perth! Mr B.J. GRYLLS : — flows to the original owner of the house, and the person who bought the house via the fraudulent sale is allowed to keep the house. It has been expressed to me by many people that they are concerned about that. I said to the journalist that I would be investigating whether there could be a change in laws that affected that. I said I would investigate that. So, I have not spoken to the Attorney General, because I was asked this on Friday when I was in my electorate office in Northam. Mr A.P. O’Gorman : You’ve done nothing! The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup! Mr B.J. GRYLLS : I also have not consulted with REIWA, but I am very happy to hear that REIWA actually understands that the place most likely to stop these frauds is at the point where a person goes to sign up a property for sale with the real estate agent. Mr J.N. Hyde : They have never said that. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : They have. They have said that they understand that they need to do much more at that point when the person wishing to sell a house comes to the real estate — Several members interjected. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : Let me finish. If members think this is so important, they will listen to the answer. Mr J.N. Hyde : So the Attorney General announced this without talking to you? The SPEAKER : Member for Perth, you have asked the question. I will give you an opportunity to ask a supplementary. I believe the minister is endeavouring to answer it. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : The real estate industry understands they are the most likely point to be able to identify a fraud. Mr J.N. Hyde interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Perth! Mr B.J. GRYLLS : At the moment, the industry has a voluntary code of conduct that says that real estate agents should do a 100-point identification check at the point of listing a property. Not all agents do that. The challenge we have as a government is that the first point this fraudulent transaction gets to government is after it is well and truly complete. Several members interjected. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : Yes it does. Just listen. Mr J.N. Hyde interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Perth, if you wish to ask a supplementary question, I am going to give you that opportunity. What I am going to ask for at the moment, though, is for you to remain silent while the minister endeavours to answer this question that you have asked; and I am sure some other people in this place are interested in the answer. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : Thank you, Mr Speaker. A person lists a property for sale. The agent goes out and sells it. They receive an offer and acceptance. The offer and acceptance is accepted by the person who listed the property for sale. Money exchanges hands. Settlement agents are engaged. Landgate does not get that document until all that has occurred. Mr W.J. Johnston : That is not true. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : The member does not know what he is talking about, then. Mr W.J. Johnston : I do know what I am talking about. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : Landgate only gets the documentation after the whole transaction has been completed. The most likely — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Perth, do you have a supplementary question?
(2) When will the minister introduce these new laws to the Parliament; and did the minister consult with the Real Estate Institute of Western Australia or any stakeholders regarding these laws? (3) Why is Western Australia the major state being targeted by these fraudulent sales? Mr B.J. GRYLLS replied: (1)–(3) I thank the member for Perth for the question. On the weekend I was quoted in The West Australian , when asked about the instances of people losing their houses, and as Minister for Lands I have taken a great deal of interest in this, obviously. Landgate is an agency under my responsibility, and we are very determined to make sure that we can limit as far as possible these frauds and scams happening. With regard to the issue that the member is talking about, I spoke openly with the journalist about the concern coming back to me from the community, being that the community is very concerned that people could lose their house to a scam, and that under the Torrens system, which has been established over many, many years, the compensation — Mr J.N. Hyde : You were concerned a year ago and you did nothing. The SPEAKER : Member for Perth! Mr B.J. GRYLLS : — flows to the original owner of the house, and the person who bought the house via the fraudulent sale is allowed to keep the house. It has been expressed to me by many people that they are concerned about that. I said to the journalist that I would be investigating whether there could be a change in laws that affected that. I said I would investigate that. So, I have not spoken to the Attorney General, because I was asked this on Friday when I was in my electorate office in Northam. Mr A.P. O’Gorman : You’ve done nothing! The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup! Mr B.J. GRYLLS : I also have not consulted with REIWA, but I am very happy to hear that REIWA actually understands that the place most likely to stop these frauds is at the point where a person goes to sign up a property for sale with the real estate agent. Mr J.N. Hyde : They have never said that. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : They have. They have said that they understand that they need to do much more at that point when the person wishing to sell a house comes to the real estate — Several members interjected. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : Let me finish. If members think this is so important, they will listen to the answer. Mr J.N. Hyde : So the Attorney General announced this without talking to you? The SPEAKER : Member for Perth, you have asked the question. I will give you an opportunity to ask a supplementary. I believe the minister is endeavouring to answer it. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : The real estate industry understands they are the most likely point to be able to identify a fraud. Mr J.N. Hyde interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Perth! Mr B.J. GRYLLS : At the moment, the industry has a voluntary code of conduct that says that real estate agents should do a 100-point identification check at the point of listing a property. Not all agents do that. The challenge we have as a government is that the first point this fraudulent transaction gets to government is after it is well and truly complete. Several members interjected. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : Yes it does. Just listen. Mr J.N. Hyde interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Perth, if you wish to ask a supplementary question, I am going to give you that opportunity. What I am going to ask for at the moment, though, is for you to remain silent while the minister endeavours to answer this question that you have asked; and I am sure some other people in this place are interested in the answer. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : Thank you, Mr Speaker. A person lists a property for sale. The agent goes out and sells it. They receive an offer and acceptance. The offer and acceptance is accepted by the person who listed the property for sale. Money exchanges hands. Settlement agents are engaged. Landgate does not get that document until all that has occurred. Mr W.J. Johnston : That is not true. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : The member does not know what he is talking about, then. Mr W.J. Johnston : I do know what I am talking about. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : Landgate only gets the documentation after the whole transaction has been completed. The most likely — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Perth, do you have a supplementary question?
(3) Why is Western Australia the major state being targeted by these fraudulent sales? Mr B.J. GRYLLS replied: (1)–(3) I thank the member for Perth for the question. On the weekend I was quoted in The West Australian , when asked about the instances of people losing their houses, and as Minister for Lands I have taken a great deal of interest in this, obviously. Landgate is an agency under my responsibility, and we are very determined to make sure that we can limit as far as possible these frauds and scams happening. With regard to the issue that the member is talking about, I spoke openly with the journalist about the concern coming back to me from the community, being that the community is very concerned that people could lose their house to a scam, and that under the Torrens system, which has been established over many, many years, the compensation — Mr J.N. Hyde : You were concerned a year ago and you did nothing. The SPEAKER : Member for Perth! Mr B.J. GRYLLS : — flows to the original owner of the house, and the person who bought the house via the fraudulent sale is allowed to keep the house. It has been expressed to me by many people that they are concerned about that. I said to the journalist that I would be investigating whether there could be a change in laws that affected that. I said I would investigate that. So, I have not spoken to the Attorney General, because I was asked this on Friday when I was in my electorate office in Northam. Mr A.P. O’Gorman : You’ve done nothing! The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup! Mr B.J. GRYLLS : I also have not consulted with REIWA, but I am very happy to hear that REIWA actually understands that the place most likely to stop these frauds is at the point where a person goes to sign up a property for sale with the real estate agent. Mr J.N. Hyde : They have never said that. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : They have. They have said that they understand that they need to do much more at that point when the person wishing to sell a house comes to the real estate — Several members interjected. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : Let me finish. If members think this is so important, they will listen to the answer. Mr J.N. Hyde : So the Attorney General announced this without talking to you? The SPEAKER : Member for Perth, you have asked the question. I will give you an opportunity to ask a supplementary. I believe the minister is endeavouring to answer it. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : The real estate industry understands they are the most likely point to be able to identify a fraud. Mr J.N. Hyde interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Perth! Mr B.J. GRYLLS : At the moment, the industry has a voluntary code of conduct that says that real estate agents should do a 100-point identification check at the point of listing a property. Not all agents do that. The challenge we have as a government is that the first point this fraudulent transaction gets to government is after it is well and truly complete. Several members interjected. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : Yes it does. Just listen. Mr J.N. Hyde interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Perth, if you wish to ask a supplementary question, I am going to give you that opportunity. What I am going to ask for at the moment, though, is for you to remain silent while the minister endeavours to answer this question that you have asked; and I am sure some other people in this place are interested in the answer. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : Thank you, Mr Speaker. A person lists a property for sale. The agent goes out and sells it. They receive an offer and acceptance. The offer and acceptance is accepted by the person who listed the property for sale. Money exchanges hands. Settlement agents are engaged. Landgate does not get that document until all that has occurred. Mr W.J. Johnston : That is not true. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : The member does not know what he is talking about, then. Mr W.J. Johnston : I do know what I am talking about. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : Landgate only gets the documentation after the whole transaction has been completed. The most likely — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Perth, do you have a supplementary question?
Mr B.J. GRYLLS replied: (1)–(3) I thank the member for Perth for the question. On the weekend I was quoted in The West Australian , when asked about the instances of people losing their houses, and as Minister for Lands I have taken a great deal of interest in this, obviously. Landgate is an agency under my responsibility, and we are very determined to make sure that we can limit as far as possible these frauds and scams happening. With regard to the issue that the member is talking about, I spoke openly with the journalist about the concern coming back to me from the community, being that the community is very concerned that people could lose their house to a scam, and that under the Torrens system, which has been established over many, many years, the compensation — Mr J.N. Hyde : You were concerned a year ago and you did nothing. The SPEAKER : Member for Perth! Mr B.J. GRYLLS : — flows to the original owner of the house, and the person who bought the house via the fraudulent sale is allowed to keep the house. It has been expressed to me by many people that they are concerned about that. I said to the journalist that I would be investigating whether there could be a change in laws that affected that. I said I would investigate that. So, I have not spoken to the Attorney General, because I was asked this on Friday when I was in my electorate office in Northam. Mr A.P. O’Gorman : You’ve done nothing! The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup! Mr B.J. GRYLLS : I also have not consulted with REIWA, but I am very happy to hear that REIWA actually understands that the place most likely to stop these frauds is at the point where a person goes to sign up a property for sale with the real estate agent. Mr J.N. Hyde : They have never said that. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : They have. They have said that they understand that they need to do much more at that point when the person wishing to sell a house comes to the real estate — Several members interjected. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : Let me finish. If members think this is so important, they will listen to the answer. Mr J.N. Hyde : So the Attorney General announced this without talking to you? The SPEAKER : Member for Perth, you have asked the question. I will give you an opportunity to ask a supplementary. I believe the minister is endeavouring to answer it. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : The real estate industry understands they are the most likely point to be able to identify a fraud. Mr J.N. Hyde interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Perth! Mr B.J. GRYLLS : At the moment, the industry has a voluntary code of conduct that says that real estate agents should do a 100-point identification check at the point of listing a property. Not all agents do that. The challenge we have as a government is that the first point this fraudulent transaction gets to government is after it is well and truly complete. Several members interjected. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : Yes it does. Just listen. Mr J.N. Hyde interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Perth, if you wish to ask a supplementary question, I am going to give you that opportunity. What I am going to ask for at the moment, though, is for you to remain silent while the minister endeavours to answer this question that you have asked; and I am sure some other people in this place are interested in the answer. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : Thank you, Mr Speaker. A person lists a property for sale. The agent goes out and sells it. They receive an offer and acceptance. The offer and acceptance is accepted by the person who listed the property for sale. Money exchanges hands. Settlement agents are engaged. Landgate does not get that document until all that has occurred. Mr W.J. Johnston : That is not true. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : The member does not know what he is talking about, then. Mr W.J. Johnston : I do know what I am talking about. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : Landgate only gets the documentation after the whole transaction has been completed. The most likely — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Perth, do you have a supplementary question?
(1)–(3) I thank the member for Perth for the question. On the weekend I was quoted in The West Australian , when asked about the instances of people losing their houses, and as Minister for Lands I have taken a great deal of interest in this, obviously. Landgate is an agency under my responsibility, and we are very determined to make sure that we can limit as far as possible these frauds and scams happening. With regard to the issue that the member is talking about, I spoke openly with the journalist about the concern coming back to me from the community, being that the community is very concerned that people could lose their house to a scam, and that under the Torrens system, which has been established over many, many years, the compensation — Mr J.N. Hyde : You were concerned a year ago and you did nothing. The SPEAKER : Member for Perth! Mr B.J. GRYLLS : — flows to the original owner of the house, and the person who bought the house via the fraudulent sale is allowed to keep the house. It has been expressed to me by many people that they are concerned about that. I said to the journalist that I would be investigating whether there could be a change in laws that affected that. I said I would investigate that. So, I have not spoken to the Attorney General, because I was asked this on Friday when I was in my electorate office in Northam. Mr A.P. O’Gorman : You’ve done nothing! The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup! Mr B.J. GRYLLS : I also have not consulted with REIWA, but I am very happy to hear that REIWA actually understands that the place most likely to stop these frauds is at the point where a person goes to sign up a property for sale with the real estate agent. Mr J.N. Hyde : They have never said that. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : They have. They have said that they understand that they need to do much more at that point when the person wishing to sell a house comes to the real estate — Several members interjected. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : Let me finish. If members think this is so important, they will listen to the answer. Mr J.N. Hyde : So the Attorney General announced this without talking to you? The SPEAKER : Member for Perth, you have asked the question. I will give you an opportunity to ask a supplementary. I believe the minister is endeavouring to answer it. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : The real estate industry understands they are the most likely point to be able to identify a fraud. Mr J.N. Hyde interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Perth! Mr B.J. GRYLLS : At the moment, the industry has a voluntary code of conduct that says that real estate agents should do a 100-point identification check at the point of listing a property. Not all agents do that. The challenge we have as a government is that the first point this fraudulent transaction gets to government is after it is well and truly complete. Several members interjected. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : Yes it does. Just listen. Mr J.N. Hyde interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Perth, if you wish to ask a supplementary question, I am going to give you that opportunity. What I am going to ask for at the moment, though, is for you to remain silent while the minister endeavours to answer this question that you have asked; and I am sure some other people in this place are interested in the answer. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : Thank you, Mr Speaker. A person lists a property for sale. The agent goes out and sells it. They receive an offer and acceptance. The offer and acceptance is accepted by the person who listed the property for sale. Money exchanges hands. Settlement agents are engaged. Landgate does not get that document until all that has occurred. Mr W.J. Johnston : That is not true. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : The member does not know what he is talking about, then. Mr W.J. Johnston : I do know what I am talking about. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : Landgate only gets the documentation after the whole transaction has been completed. The most likely — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Perth, do you have a supplementary question?
Mr J.N. Hyde : You were concerned a year ago and you did nothing. The SPEAKER : Member for Perth! Mr B.J. GRYLLS : — flows to the original owner of the house, and the person who bought the house via the fraudulent sale is allowed to keep the house. It has been expressed to me by many people that they are concerned about that. I said to the journalist that I would be investigating whether there could be a change in laws that affected that. I said I would investigate that. So, I have not spoken to the Attorney General, because I was asked this on Friday when I was in my electorate office in Northam. Mr A.P. O’Gorman : You’ve done nothing! The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup! Mr B.J. GRYLLS : I also have not consulted with REIWA, but I am very happy to hear that REIWA actually understands that the place most likely to stop these frauds is at the point where a person goes to sign up a property for sale with the real estate agent. Mr J.N. Hyde : They have never said that. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : They have. They have said that they understand that they need to do much more at that point when the person wishing to sell a house comes to the real estate — Several members interjected. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : Let me finish. If members think this is so important, they will listen to the answer. Mr J.N. Hyde : So the Attorney General announced this without talking to you? The SPEAKER : Member for Perth, you have asked the question. I will give you an opportunity to ask a supplementary. I believe the minister is endeavouring to answer it. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : The real estate industry understands they are the most likely point to be able to identify a fraud. Mr J.N. Hyde interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Perth! Mr B.J. GRYLLS : At the moment, the industry has a voluntary code of conduct that says that real estate agents should do a 100-point identification check at the point of listing a property. Not all agents do that. The challenge we have as a government is that the first point this fraudulent transaction gets to government is after it is well and truly complete. Several members interjected. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : Yes it does. Just listen. Mr J.N. Hyde interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Perth, if you wish to ask a supplementary question, I am going to give you that opportunity. What I am going to ask for at the moment, though, is for you to remain silent while the minister endeavours to answer this question that you have asked; and I am sure some other people in this place are interested in the answer. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : Thank you, Mr Speaker. A person lists a property for sale. The agent goes out and sells it. They receive an offer and acceptance. The offer and acceptance is accepted by the person who listed the property for sale. Money exchanges hands. Settlement agents are engaged. Landgate does not get that document until all that has occurred. Mr W.J. Johnston : That is not true. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : The member does not know what he is talking about, then. Mr W.J. Johnston : I do know what I am talking about. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : Landgate only gets the documentation after the whole transaction has been completed. The most likely — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Perth, do you have a supplementary question?
The SPEAKER : Member for Perth! Mr B.J. GRYLLS : — flows to the original owner of the house, and the person who bought the house via the fraudulent sale is allowed to keep the house. It has been expressed to me by many people that they are concerned about that. I said to the journalist that I would be investigating whether there could be a change in laws that affected that. I said I would investigate that. So, I have not spoken to the Attorney General, because I was asked this on Friday when I was in my electorate office in Northam. Mr A.P. O’Gorman : You’ve done nothing! The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup! Mr B.J. GRYLLS : I also have not consulted with REIWA, but I am very happy to hear that REIWA actually understands that the place most likely to stop these frauds is at the point where a person goes to sign up a property for sale with the real estate agent. Mr J.N. Hyde : They have never said that. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : They have. They have said that they understand that they need to do much more at that point when the person wishing to sell a house comes to the real estate — Several members interjected. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : Let me finish. If members think this is so important, they will listen to the answer. Mr J.N. Hyde : So the Attorney General announced this without talking to you? The SPEAKER : Member for Perth, you have asked the question. I will give you an opportunity to ask a supplementary. I believe the minister is endeavouring to answer it. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : The real estate industry understands they are the most likely point to be able to identify a fraud. Mr J.N. Hyde interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Perth! Mr B.J. GRYLLS : At the moment, the industry has a voluntary code of conduct that says that real estate agents should do a 100-point identification check at the point of listing a property. Not all agents do that. The challenge we have as a government is that the first point this fraudulent transaction gets to government is after it is well and truly complete. Several members interjected. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : Yes it does. Just listen. Mr J.N. Hyde interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Perth, if you wish to ask a supplementary question, I am going to give you that opportunity. What I am going to ask for at the moment, though, is for you to remain silent while the minister endeavours to answer this question that you have asked; and I am sure some other people in this place are interested in the answer. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : Thank you, Mr Speaker. A person lists a property for sale. The agent goes out and sells it. They receive an offer and acceptance. The offer and acceptance is accepted by the person who listed the property for sale. Money exchanges hands. Settlement agents are engaged. Landgate does not get that document until all that has occurred. Mr W.J. Johnston : That is not true. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : The member does not know what he is talking about, then. Mr W.J. Johnston : I do know what I am talking about. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : Landgate only gets the documentation after the whole transaction has been completed. The most likely — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Perth, do you have a supplementary question?
Mr B.J. GRYLLS : — flows to the original owner of the house, and the person who bought the house via the fraudulent sale is allowed to keep the house. It has been expressed to me by many people that they are concerned about that. I said to the journalist that I would be investigating whether there could be a change in laws that affected that. I said I would investigate that. So, I have not spoken to the Attorney General, because I was asked this on Friday when I was in my electorate office in Northam. Mr A.P. O’Gorman : You’ve done nothing! The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup! Mr B.J. GRYLLS : I also have not consulted with REIWA, but I am very happy to hear that REIWA actually understands that the place most likely to stop these frauds is at the point where a person goes to sign up a property for sale with the real estate agent. Mr J.N. Hyde : They have never said that. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : They have. They have said that they understand that they need to do much more at that point when the person wishing to sell a house comes to the real estate — Several members interjected. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : Let me finish. If members think this is so important, they will listen to the answer. Mr J.N. Hyde : So the Attorney General announced this without talking to you? The SPEAKER : Member for Perth, you have asked the question. I will give you an opportunity to ask a supplementary. I believe the minister is endeavouring to answer it. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : The real estate industry understands they are the most likely point to be able to identify a fraud. Mr J.N. Hyde interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Perth! Mr B.J. GRYLLS : At the moment, the industry has a voluntary code of conduct that says that real estate agents should do a 100-point identification check at the point of listing a property. Not all agents do that. The challenge we have as a government is that the first point this fraudulent transaction gets to government is after it is well and truly complete. Several members interjected. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : Yes it does. Just listen. Mr J.N. Hyde interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Perth, if you wish to ask a supplementary question, I am going to give you that opportunity. What I am going to ask for at the moment, though, is for you to remain silent while the minister endeavours to answer this question that you have asked; and I am sure some other people in this place are interested in the answer. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : Thank you, Mr Speaker. A person lists a property for sale. The agent goes out and sells it. They receive an offer and acceptance. The offer and acceptance is accepted by the person who listed the property for sale. Money exchanges hands. Settlement agents are engaged. Landgate does not get that document until all that has occurred. Mr W.J. Johnston : That is not true. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : The member does not know what he is talking about, then. Mr W.J. Johnston : I do know what I am talking about. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : Landgate only gets the documentation after the whole transaction has been completed. The most likely — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Perth, do you have a supplementary question?
Mr A.P. O’Gorman : You’ve done nothing! The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup! Mr B.J. GRYLLS : I also have not consulted with REIWA, but I am very happy to hear that REIWA actually understands that the place most likely to stop these frauds is at the point where a person goes to sign up a property for sale with the real estate agent. Mr J.N. Hyde : They have never said that. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : They have. They have said that they understand that they need to do much more at that point when the person wishing to sell a house comes to the real estate — Several members interjected. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : Let me finish. If members think this is so important, they will listen to the answer. Mr J.N. Hyde : So the Attorney General announced this without talking to you? The SPEAKER : Member for Perth, you have asked the question. I will give you an opportunity to ask a supplementary. I believe the minister is endeavouring to answer it. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : The real estate industry understands they are the most likely point to be able to identify a fraud. Mr J.N. Hyde interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Perth! Mr B.J. GRYLLS : At the moment, the industry has a voluntary code of conduct that says that real estate agents should do a 100-point identification check at the point of listing a property. Not all agents do that. The challenge we have as a government is that the first point this fraudulent transaction gets to government is after it is well and truly complete. Several members interjected. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : Yes it does. Just listen. Mr J.N. Hyde interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Perth, if you wish to ask a supplementary question, I am going to give you that opportunity. What I am going to ask for at the moment, though, is for you to remain silent while the minister endeavours to answer this question that you have asked; and I am sure some other people in this place are interested in the answer. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : Thank you, Mr Speaker. A person lists a property for sale. The agent goes out and sells it. They receive an offer and acceptance. The offer and acceptance is accepted by the person who listed the property for sale. Money exchanges hands. Settlement agents are engaged. Landgate does not get that document until all that has occurred. Mr W.J. Johnston : That is not true. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : The member does not know what he is talking about, then. Mr W.J. Johnston : I do know what I am talking about. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : Landgate only gets the documentation after the whole transaction has been completed. The most likely — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Perth, do you have a supplementary question?
The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup! Mr B.J. GRYLLS : I also have not consulted with REIWA, but I am very happy to hear that REIWA actually understands that the place most likely to stop these frauds is at the point where a person goes to sign up a property for sale with the real estate agent. Mr J.N. Hyde : They have never said that. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : They have. They have said that they understand that they need to do much more at that point when the person wishing to sell a house comes to the real estate — Several members interjected. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : Let me finish. If members think this is so important, they will listen to the answer. Mr J.N. Hyde : So the Attorney General announced this without talking to you? The SPEAKER : Member for Perth, you have asked the question. I will give you an opportunity to ask a supplementary. I believe the minister is endeavouring to answer it. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : The real estate industry understands they are the most likely point to be able to identify a fraud. Mr J.N. Hyde interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Perth! Mr B.J. GRYLLS : At the moment, the industry has a voluntary code of conduct that says that real estate agents should do a 100-point identification check at the point of listing a property. Not all agents do that. The challenge we have as a government is that the first point this fraudulent transaction gets to government is after it is well and truly complete. Several members interjected. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : Yes it does. Just listen. Mr J.N. Hyde interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Perth, if you wish to ask a supplementary question, I am going to give you that opportunity. What I am going to ask for at the moment, though, is for you to remain silent while the minister endeavours to answer this question that you have asked; and I am sure some other people in this place are interested in the answer. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : Thank you, Mr Speaker. A person lists a property for sale. The agent goes out and sells it. They receive an offer and acceptance. The offer and acceptance is accepted by the person who listed the property for sale. Money exchanges hands. Settlement agents are engaged. Landgate does not get that document until all that has occurred. Mr W.J. Johnston : That is not true. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : The member does not know what he is talking about, then. Mr W.J. Johnston : I do know what I am talking about. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : Landgate only gets the documentation after the whole transaction has been completed. The most likely — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Perth, do you have a supplementary question?
Mr B.J. GRYLLS : I also have not consulted with REIWA, but I am very happy to hear that REIWA actually understands that the place most likely to stop these frauds is at the point where a person goes to sign up a property for sale with the real estate agent. Mr J.N. Hyde : They have never said that. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : They have. They have said that they understand that they need to do much more at that point when the person wishing to sell a house comes to the real estate — Several members interjected. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : Let me finish. If members think this is so important, they will listen to the answer. Mr J.N. Hyde : So the Attorney General announced this without talking to you? The SPEAKER : Member for Perth, you have asked the question. I will give you an opportunity to ask a supplementary. I believe the minister is endeavouring to answer it. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : The real estate industry understands they are the most likely point to be able to identify a fraud. Mr J.N. Hyde interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Perth! Mr B.J. GRYLLS : At the moment, the industry has a voluntary code of conduct that says that real estate agents should do a 100-point identification check at the point of listing a property. Not all agents do that. The challenge we have as a government is that the first point this fraudulent transaction gets to government is after it is well and truly complete. Several members interjected. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : Yes it does. Just listen. Mr J.N. Hyde interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Perth, if you wish to ask a supplementary question, I am going to give you that opportunity. What I am going to ask for at the moment, though, is for you to remain silent while the minister endeavours to answer this question that you have asked; and I am sure some other people in this place are interested in the answer. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : Thank you, Mr Speaker. A person lists a property for sale. The agent goes out and sells it. They receive an offer and acceptance. The offer and acceptance is accepted by the person who listed the property for sale. Money exchanges hands. Settlement agents are engaged. Landgate does not get that document until all that has occurred. Mr W.J. Johnston : That is not true. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : The member does not know what he is talking about, then. Mr W.J. Johnston : I do know what I am talking about. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : Landgate only gets the documentation after the whole transaction has been completed. The most likely — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Perth, do you have a supplementary question?
Mr J.N. Hyde : They have never said that. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : They have. They have said that they understand that they need to do much more at that point when the person wishing to sell a house comes to the real estate — Several members interjected. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : Let me finish. If members think this is so important, they will listen to the answer. Mr J.N. Hyde : So the Attorney General announced this without talking to you? The SPEAKER : Member for Perth, you have asked the question. I will give you an opportunity to ask a supplementary. I believe the minister is endeavouring to answer it. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : The real estate industry understands they are the most likely point to be able to identify a fraud. Mr J.N. Hyde interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Perth! Mr B.J. GRYLLS : At the moment, the industry has a voluntary code of conduct that says that real estate agents should do a 100-point identification check at the point of listing a property. Not all agents do that. The challenge we have as a government is that the first point this fraudulent transaction gets to government is after it is well and truly complete. Several members interjected. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : Yes it does. Just listen. Mr J.N. Hyde interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Perth, if you wish to ask a supplementary question, I am going to give you that opportunity. What I am going to ask for at the moment, though, is for you to remain silent while the minister endeavours to answer this question that you have asked; and I am sure some other people in this place are interested in the answer. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : Thank you, Mr Speaker. A person lists a property for sale. The agent goes out and sells it. They receive an offer and acceptance. The offer and acceptance is accepted by the person who listed the property for sale. Money exchanges hands. Settlement agents are engaged. Landgate does not get that document until all that has occurred. Mr W.J. Johnston : That is not true. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : The member does not know what he is talking about, then. Mr W.J. Johnston : I do know what I am talking about. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : Landgate only gets the documentation after the whole transaction has been completed. The most likely — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Perth, do you have a supplementary question?
Mr B.J. GRYLLS : They have. They have said that they understand that they need to do much more at that point when the person wishing to sell a house comes to the real estate — Several members interjected. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : Let me finish. If members think this is so important, they will listen to the answer. Mr J.N. Hyde : So the Attorney General announced this without talking to you? The SPEAKER : Member for Perth, you have asked the question. I will give you an opportunity to ask a supplementary. I believe the minister is endeavouring to answer it. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : The real estate industry understands they are the most likely point to be able to identify a fraud. Mr J.N. Hyde interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Perth! Mr B.J. GRYLLS : At the moment, the industry has a voluntary code of conduct that says that real estate agents should do a 100-point identification check at the point of listing a property. Not all agents do that. The challenge we have as a government is that the first point this fraudulent transaction gets to government is after it is well and truly complete. Several members interjected. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : Yes it does. Just listen. Mr J.N. Hyde interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Perth, if you wish to ask a supplementary question, I am going to give you that opportunity. What I am going to ask for at the moment, though, is for you to remain silent while the minister endeavours to answer this question that you have asked; and I am sure some other people in this place are interested in the answer. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : Thank you, Mr Speaker. A person lists a property for sale. The agent goes out and sells it. They receive an offer and acceptance. The offer and acceptance is accepted by the person who listed the property for sale. Money exchanges hands. Settlement agents are engaged. Landgate does not get that document until all that has occurred. Mr W.J. Johnston : That is not true. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : The member does not know what he is talking about, then. Mr W.J. Johnston : I do know what I am talking about. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : Landgate only gets the documentation after the whole transaction has been completed. The most likely — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Perth, do you have a supplementary question?
Several members interjected. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : Let me finish. If members think this is so important, they will listen to the answer. Mr J.N. Hyde : So the Attorney General announced this without talking to you? The SPEAKER : Member for Perth, you have asked the question. I will give you an opportunity to ask a supplementary. I believe the minister is endeavouring to answer it. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : The real estate industry understands they are the most likely point to be able to identify a fraud. Mr J.N. Hyde interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Perth! Mr B.J. GRYLLS : At the moment, the industry has a voluntary code of conduct that says that real estate agents should do a 100-point identification check at the point of listing a property. Not all agents do that. The challenge we have as a government is that the first point this fraudulent transaction gets to government is after it is well and truly complete. Several members interjected. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : Yes it does. Just listen. Mr J.N. Hyde interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Perth, if you wish to ask a supplementary question, I am going to give you that opportunity. What I am going to ask for at the moment, though, is for you to remain silent while the minister endeavours to answer this question that you have asked; and I am sure some other people in this place are interested in the answer. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : Thank you, Mr Speaker. A person lists a property for sale. The agent goes out and sells it. They receive an offer and acceptance. The offer and acceptance is accepted by the person who listed the property for sale. Money exchanges hands. Settlement agents are engaged. Landgate does not get that document until all that has occurred. Mr W.J. Johnston : That is not true. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : The member does not know what he is talking about, then. Mr W.J. Johnston : I do know what I am talking about. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : Landgate only gets the documentation after the whole transaction has been completed. The most likely — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Perth, do you have a supplementary question?
Mr B.J. GRYLLS : Let me finish. If members think this is so important, they will listen to the answer. Mr J.N. Hyde : So the Attorney General announced this without talking to you? The SPEAKER : Member for Perth, you have asked the question. I will give you an opportunity to ask a supplementary. I believe the minister is endeavouring to answer it. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : The real estate industry understands they are the most likely point to be able to identify a fraud. Mr J.N. Hyde interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Perth! Mr B.J. GRYLLS : At the moment, the industry has a voluntary code of conduct that says that real estate agents should do a 100-point identification check at the point of listing a property. Not all agents do that. The challenge we have as a government is that the first point this fraudulent transaction gets to government is after it is well and truly complete. Several members interjected. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : Yes it does. Just listen. Mr J.N. Hyde interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Perth, if you wish to ask a supplementary question, I am going to give you that opportunity. What I am going to ask for at the moment, though, is for you to remain silent while the minister endeavours to answer this question that you have asked; and I am sure some other people in this place are interested in the answer. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : Thank you, Mr Speaker. A person lists a property for sale. The agent goes out and sells it. They receive an offer and acceptance. The offer and acceptance is accepted by the person who listed the property for sale. Money exchanges hands. Settlement agents are engaged. Landgate does not get that document until all that has occurred. Mr W.J. Johnston : That is not true. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : The member does not know what he is talking about, then. Mr W.J. Johnston : I do know what I am talking about. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : Landgate only gets the documentation after the whole transaction has been completed. The most likely — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Perth, do you have a supplementary question?
Mr J.N. Hyde : So the Attorney General announced this without talking to you? The SPEAKER : Member for Perth, you have asked the question. I will give you an opportunity to ask a supplementary. I believe the minister is endeavouring to answer it. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : The real estate industry understands they are the most likely point to be able to identify a fraud. Mr J.N. Hyde interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Perth! Mr B.J. GRYLLS : At the moment, the industry has a voluntary code of conduct that says that real estate agents should do a 100-point identification check at the point of listing a property. Not all agents do that. The challenge we have as a government is that the first point this fraudulent transaction gets to government is after it is well and truly complete. Several members interjected. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : Yes it does. Just listen. Mr J.N. Hyde interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Perth, if you wish to ask a supplementary question, I am going to give you that opportunity. What I am going to ask for at the moment, though, is for you to remain silent while the minister endeavours to answer this question that you have asked; and I am sure some other people in this place are interested in the answer. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : Thank you, Mr Speaker. A person lists a property for sale. The agent goes out and sells it. They receive an offer and acceptance. The offer and acceptance is accepted by the person who listed the property for sale. Money exchanges hands. Settlement agents are engaged. Landgate does not get that document until all that has occurred. Mr W.J. Johnston : That is not true. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : The member does not know what he is talking about, then. Mr W.J. Johnston : I do know what I am talking about. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : Landgate only gets the documentation after the whole transaction has been completed. The most likely — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Perth, do you have a supplementary question?
The SPEAKER : Member for Perth, you have asked the question. I will give you an opportunity to ask a supplementary. I believe the minister is endeavouring to answer it. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : The real estate industry understands they are the most likely point to be able to identify a fraud. Mr J.N. Hyde interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Perth! Mr B.J. GRYLLS : At the moment, the industry has a voluntary code of conduct that says that real estate agents should do a 100-point identification check at the point of listing a property. Not all agents do that. The challenge we have as a government is that the first point this fraudulent transaction gets to government is after it is well and truly complete. Several members interjected. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : Yes it does. Just listen. Mr J.N. Hyde interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Perth, if you wish to ask a supplementary question, I am going to give you that opportunity. What I am going to ask for at the moment, though, is for you to remain silent while the minister endeavours to answer this question that you have asked; and I am sure some other people in this place are interested in the answer. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : Thank you, Mr Speaker. A person lists a property for sale. The agent goes out and sells it. They receive an offer and acceptance. The offer and acceptance is accepted by the person who listed the property for sale. Money exchanges hands. Settlement agents are engaged. Landgate does not get that document until all that has occurred. Mr W.J. Johnston : That is not true. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : The member does not know what he is talking about, then. Mr W.J. Johnston : I do know what I am talking about. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : Landgate only gets the documentation after the whole transaction has been completed. The most likely — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Perth, do you have a supplementary question?
Mr B.J. GRYLLS : The real estate industry understands they are the most likely point to be able to identify a fraud. Mr J.N. Hyde interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Perth! Mr B.J. GRYLLS : At the moment, the industry has a voluntary code of conduct that says that real estate agents should do a 100-point identification check at the point of listing a property. Not all agents do that. The challenge we have as a government is that the first point this fraudulent transaction gets to government is after it is well and truly complete. Several members interjected. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : Yes it does. Just listen. Mr J.N. Hyde interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Perth, if you wish to ask a supplementary question, I am going to give you that opportunity. What I am going to ask for at the moment, though, is for you to remain silent while the minister endeavours to answer this question that you have asked; and I am sure some other people in this place are interested in the answer. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : Thank you, Mr Speaker. A person lists a property for sale. The agent goes out and sells it. They receive an offer and acceptance. The offer and acceptance is accepted by the person who listed the property for sale. Money exchanges hands. Settlement agents are engaged. Landgate does not get that document until all that has occurred. Mr W.J. Johnston : That is not true. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : The member does not know what he is talking about, then. Mr W.J. Johnston : I do know what I am talking about. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : Landgate only gets the documentation after the whole transaction has been completed. The most likely — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Perth, do you have a supplementary question?
Mr J.N. Hyde interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Perth! Mr B.J. GRYLLS : At the moment, the industry has a voluntary code of conduct that says that real estate agents should do a 100-point identification check at the point of listing a property. Not all agents do that. The challenge we have as a government is that the first point this fraudulent transaction gets to government is after it is well and truly complete. Several members interjected. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : Yes it does. Just listen. Mr J.N. Hyde interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Perth, if you wish to ask a supplementary question, I am going to give you that opportunity. What I am going to ask for at the moment, though, is for you to remain silent while the minister endeavours to answer this question that you have asked; and I am sure some other people in this place are interested in the answer. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : Thank you, Mr Speaker. A person lists a property for sale. The agent goes out and sells it. They receive an offer and acceptance. The offer and acceptance is accepted by the person who listed the property for sale. Money exchanges hands. Settlement agents are engaged. Landgate does not get that document until all that has occurred. Mr W.J. Johnston : That is not true. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : The member does not know what he is talking about, then. Mr W.J. Johnston : I do know what I am talking about. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : Landgate only gets the documentation after the whole transaction has been completed. The most likely — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Perth, do you have a supplementary question?
The SPEAKER : Member for Perth! Mr B.J. GRYLLS : At the moment, the industry has a voluntary code of conduct that says that real estate agents should do a 100-point identification check at the point of listing a property. Not all agents do that. The challenge we have as a government is that the first point this fraudulent transaction gets to government is after it is well and truly complete. Several members interjected. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : Yes it does. Just listen. Mr J.N. Hyde interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Perth, if you wish to ask a supplementary question, I am going to give you that opportunity. What I am going to ask for at the moment, though, is for you to remain silent while the minister endeavours to answer this question that you have asked; and I am sure some other people in this place are interested in the answer. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : Thank you, Mr Speaker. A person lists a property for sale. The agent goes out and sells it. They receive an offer and acceptance. The offer and acceptance is accepted by the person who listed the property for sale. Money exchanges hands. Settlement agents are engaged. Landgate does not get that document until all that has occurred. Mr W.J. Johnston : That is not true. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : The member does not know what he is talking about, then. Mr W.J. Johnston : I do know what I am talking about. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : Landgate only gets the documentation after the whole transaction has been completed. The most likely — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Perth, do you have a supplementary question?
Mr B.J. GRYLLS : At the moment, the industry has a voluntary code of conduct that says that real estate agents should do a 100-point identification check at the point of listing a property. Not all agents do that. The challenge we have as a government is that the first point this fraudulent transaction gets to government is after it is well and truly complete. Several members interjected. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : Yes it does. Just listen. Mr J.N. Hyde interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Perth, if you wish to ask a supplementary question, I am going to give you that opportunity. What I am going to ask for at the moment, though, is for you to remain silent while the minister endeavours to answer this question that you have asked; and I am sure some other people in this place are interested in the answer. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : Thank you, Mr Speaker. A person lists a property for sale. The agent goes out and sells it. They receive an offer and acceptance. The offer and acceptance is accepted by the person who listed the property for sale. Money exchanges hands. Settlement agents are engaged. Landgate does not get that document until all that has occurred. Mr W.J. Johnston : That is not true. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : The member does not know what he is talking about, then. Mr W.J. Johnston : I do know what I am talking about. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : Landgate only gets the documentation after the whole transaction has been completed. The most likely — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Perth, do you have a supplementary question?
Several members interjected. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : Yes it does. Just listen. Mr J.N. Hyde interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Perth, if you wish to ask a supplementary question, I am going to give you that opportunity. What I am going to ask for at the moment, though, is for you to remain silent while the minister endeavours to answer this question that you have asked; and I am sure some other people in this place are interested in the answer. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : Thank you, Mr Speaker. A person lists a property for sale. The agent goes out and sells it. They receive an offer and acceptance. The offer and acceptance is accepted by the person who listed the property for sale. Money exchanges hands. Settlement agents are engaged. Landgate does not get that document until all that has occurred. Mr W.J. Johnston : That is not true. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : The member does not know what he is talking about, then. Mr W.J. Johnston : I do know what I am talking about. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : Landgate only gets the documentation after the whole transaction has been completed. The most likely — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Perth, do you have a supplementary question?
Mr B.J. GRYLLS : Yes it does. Just listen. Mr J.N. Hyde interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Perth, if you wish to ask a supplementary question, I am going to give you that opportunity. What I am going to ask for at the moment, though, is for you to remain silent while the minister endeavours to answer this question that you have asked; and I am sure some other people in this place are interested in the answer. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : Thank you, Mr Speaker. A person lists a property for sale. The agent goes out and sells it. They receive an offer and acceptance. The offer and acceptance is accepted by the person who listed the property for sale. Money exchanges hands. Settlement agents are engaged. Landgate does not get that document until all that has occurred. Mr W.J. Johnston : That is not true. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : The member does not know what he is talking about, then. Mr W.J. Johnston : I do know what I am talking about. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : Landgate only gets the documentation after the whole transaction has been completed. The most likely — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Perth, do you have a supplementary question?
Mr J.N. Hyde interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Perth, if you wish to ask a supplementary question, I am going to give you that opportunity. What I am going to ask for at the moment, though, is for you to remain silent while the minister endeavours to answer this question that you have asked; and I am sure some other people in this place are interested in the answer. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : Thank you, Mr Speaker. A person lists a property for sale. The agent goes out and sells it. They receive an offer and acceptance. The offer and acceptance is accepted by the person who listed the property for sale. Money exchanges hands. Settlement agents are engaged. Landgate does not get that document until all that has occurred. Mr W.J. Johnston : That is not true. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : The member does not know what he is talking about, then. Mr W.J. Johnston : I do know what I am talking about. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : Landgate only gets the documentation after the whole transaction has been completed. The most likely — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Perth, do you have a supplementary question?
The SPEAKER : Member for Perth, if you wish to ask a supplementary question, I am going to give you that opportunity. What I am going to ask for at the moment, though, is for you to remain silent while the minister endeavours to answer this question that you have asked; and I am sure some other people in this place are interested in the answer. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : Thank you, Mr Speaker. A person lists a property for sale. The agent goes out and sells it. They receive an offer and acceptance. The offer and acceptance is accepted by the person who listed the property for sale. Money exchanges hands. Settlement agents are engaged. Landgate does not get that document until all that has occurred. Mr W.J. Johnston : That is not true. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : The member does not know what he is talking about, then. Mr W.J. Johnston : I do know what I am talking about. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : Landgate only gets the documentation after the whole transaction has been completed. The most likely — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Perth, do you have a supplementary question?
Mr B.J. GRYLLS : Thank you, Mr Speaker. A person lists a property for sale. The agent goes out and sells it. They receive an offer and acceptance. The offer and acceptance is accepted by the person who listed the property for sale. Money exchanges hands. Settlement agents are engaged. Landgate does not get that document until all that has occurred. Mr W.J. Johnston : That is not true. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : The member does not know what he is talking about, then. Mr W.J. Johnston : I do know what I am talking about. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : Landgate only gets the documentation after the whole transaction has been completed. The most likely — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Perth, do you have a supplementary question?
Mr W.J. Johnston : That is not true. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : The member does not know what he is talking about, then. Mr W.J. Johnston : I do know what I am talking about. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : Landgate only gets the documentation after the whole transaction has been completed. The most likely — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Perth, do you have a supplementary question?
Mr B.J. GRYLLS : The member does not know what he is talking about, then. Mr W.J. Johnston : I do know what I am talking about. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : Landgate only gets the documentation after the whole transaction has been completed. The most likely — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Perth, do you have a supplementary question?
Mr W.J. Johnston : I do know what I am talking about. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : Landgate only gets the documentation after the whole transaction has been completed. The most likely — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Perth, do you have a supplementary question?
Mr B.J. GRYLLS : Landgate only gets the documentation after the whole transaction has been completed. The most likely — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Perth, do you have a supplementary question?
Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Perth, do you have a supplementary question?
The SPEAKER : Member for Perth, do you have a supplementary question?
(1) When did the minister first approach the Attorney General to resolve this issue through new laws? (2) When will the minister introduce these new laws to the Parliament; and did the minister consult with the Real Estate Institute of Western Australia or any stakeholders regarding these laws? (3) Why is Western Australia the major state being targeted by these fraudulent sales? Mr B.J. GRYLLS replied: (1)–(3) I thank the member for Perth for the question. On the weekend I was quoted in The West Australian , when asked about the instances of people losing their houses, and as Minister for Lands I have taken a great deal of interest in this, obviously. Landgate is an agency under my responsibility, and we are very determined to make sure that we can limit as far as possible these frauds and scams happening. With regard to the issue that the member is talking about, I spoke openly with the journalist about the concern coming back to me from the community, being that the community is very concerned that people could lose their house to a scam, and that under the Torrens system, which has been established over many, many years, the compensation — Mr J.N. Hyde : You were concerned a year ago and you did nothing. The SPEAKER : Member for Perth! Mr B.J. GRYLLS : — flows to the original owner of the house, and the person who bought the house via the fraudulent sale is allowed to keep the house. It has been expressed to me by many people that they are concerned about that. I said to the journalist that I would be investigating whether there could be a change in laws that affected that. I said I would investigate that. So, I have not spoken to the Attorney General, because I was asked this on Friday when I was in my electorate office in Northam. Mr A.P. O’Gorman : You’ve done nothing! The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup! Mr B.J. GRYLLS : I also have not consulted with REIWA, but I am very happy to hear that REIWA actually understands that the place most likely to stop these frauds is at the point where a person goes to sign up a property for sale with the real estate agent. Mr J.N. Hyde : They have never said that. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : They have. They have said that they understand that they need to do much more at that point when the person wishing to sell a house comes to the real estate — Several members interjected. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : Let me finish. If members think this is so important, they will listen to the answer. Mr J.N. Hyde : So the Attorney General announced this without talking to you? The SPEAKER : Member for Perth, you have asked the question. I will give you an opportunity to ask a supplementary. I believe the minister is endeavouring to answer it. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : The real estate industry understands they are the most likely point to be able to identify a fraud. Mr J.N. Hyde interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Perth! Mr B.J. GRYLLS : At the moment, the industry has a voluntary code of conduct that says that real estate agents should do a 100-point identification check at the point of listing a property. Not all agents do that. The challenge we have as a government is that the first point this fraudulent transaction gets to government is after it is well and truly complete. Several members interjected. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : Yes it does. Just listen. Mr J.N. Hyde interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Perth, if you wish to ask a supplementary question, I am going to give you that opportunity. What I am going to ask for at the moment, though, is for you to remain silent while the minister endeavours to answer this question that you have asked; and I am sure some other people in this place are interested in the answer. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : Thank you, Mr Speaker. A person lists a property for sale. The agent goes out and sells it. They receive an offer and acceptance. The offer and acceptance is accepted by the person who listed the property for sale. Money exchanges hands. Settlement agents are engaged. Landgate does not get that document until all that has occurred. Mr W.J. Johnston : That is not true. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : The member does not know what he is talking about, then. Mr W.J. Johnston : I do know what I am talking about. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : Landgate only gets the documentation after the whole transaction has been completed. The most likely — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Perth, do you have a supplementary question?
(2) When will the minister introduce these new laws to the Parliament; and did the minister consult with the Real Estate Institute of Western Australia or any stakeholders regarding these laws? (3) Why is Western Australia the major state being targeted by these fraudulent sales? Mr B.J. GRYLLS replied: (1)–(3) I thank the member for Perth for the question. On the weekend I was quoted in The West Australian , when asked about the instances of people losing their houses, and as Minister for Lands I have taken a great deal of interest in this, obviously. Landgate is an agency under my responsibility, and we are very determined to make sure that we can limit as far as possible these frauds and scams happening. With regard to the issue that the member is talking about, I spoke openly with the journalist about the concern coming back to me from the community, being that the community is very concerned that people could lose their house to a scam, and that under the Torrens system, which has been established over many, many years, the compensation — Mr J.N. Hyde : You were concerned a year ago and you did nothing. The SPEAKER : Member for Perth! Mr B.J. GRYLLS : — flows to the original owner of the house, and the person who bought the house via the fraudulent sale is allowed to keep the house. It has been expressed to me by many people that they are concerned about that. I said to the journalist that I would be investigating whether there could be a change in laws that affected that. I said I would investigate that. So, I have not spoken to the Attorney General, because I was asked this on Friday when I was in my electorate office in Northam. Mr A.P. O’Gorman : You’ve done nothing! The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup! Mr B.J. GRYLLS : I also have not consulted with REIWA, but I am very happy to hear that REIWA actually understands that the place most likely to stop these frauds is at the point where a person goes to sign up a property for sale with the real estate agent. Mr J.N. Hyde : They have never said that. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : They have. They have said that they understand that they need to do much more at that point when the person wishing to sell a house comes to the real estate — Several members interjected. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : Let me finish. If members think this is so important, they will listen to the answer. Mr J.N. Hyde : So the Attorney General announced this without talking to you? The SPEAKER : Member for Perth, you have asked the question. I will give you an opportunity to ask a supplementary. I believe the minister is endeavouring to answer it. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : The real estate industry understands they are the most likely point to be able to identify a fraud. Mr J.N. Hyde interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Perth! Mr B.J. GRYLLS : At the moment, the industry has a voluntary code of conduct that says that real estate agents should do a 100-point identification check at the point of listing a property. Not all agents do that. The challenge we have as a government is that the first point this fraudulent transaction gets to government is after it is well and truly complete. Several members interjected. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : Yes it does. Just listen. Mr J.N. Hyde interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Perth, if you wish to ask a supplementary question, I am going to give you that opportunity. What I am going to ask for at the moment, though, is for you to remain silent while the minister endeavours to answer this question that you have asked; and I am sure some other people in this place are interested in the answer. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : Thank you, Mr Speaker. A person lists a property for sale. The agent goes out and sells it. They receive an offer and acceptance. The offer and acceptance is accepted by the person who listed the property for sale. Money exchanges hands. Settlement agents are engaged. Landgate does not get that document until all that has occurred. Mr W.J. Johnston : That is not true. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : The member does not know what he is talking about, then. Mr W.J. Johnston : I do know what I am talking about. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : Landgate only gets the documentation after the whole transaction has been completed. The most likely — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Perth, do you have a supplementary question?
(3) Why is Western Australia the major state being targeted by these fraudulent sales? Mr B.J. GRYLLS replied: (1)–(3) I thank the member for Perth for the question. On the weekend I was quoted in The West Australian , when asked about the instances of people losing their houses, and as Minister for Lands I have taken a great deal of interest in this, obviously. Landgate is an agency under my responsibility, and we are very determined to make sure that we can limit as far as possible these frauds and scams happening. With regard to the issue that the member is talking about, I spoke openly with the journalist about the concern coming back to me from the community, being that the community is very concerned that people could lose their house to a scam, and that under the Torrens system, which has been established over many, many years, the compensation — Mr J.N. Hyde : You were concerned a year ago and you did nothing. The SPEAKER : Member for Perth! Mr B.J. GRYLLS : — flows to the original owner of the house, and the person who bought the house via the fraudulent sale is allowed to keep the house. It has been expressed to me by many people that they are concerned about that. I said to the journalist that I would be investigating whether there could be a change in laws that affected that. I said I would investigate that. So, I have not spoken to the Attorney General, because I was asked this on Friday when I was in my electorate office in Northam. Mr A.P. O’Gorman : You’ve done nothing! The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup! Mr B.J. GRYLLS : I also have not consulted with REIWA, but I am very happy to hear that REIWA actually understands that the place most likely to stop these frauds is at the point where a person goes to sign up a property for sale with the real estate agent. Mr J.N. Hyde : They have never said that. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : They have. They have said that they understand that they need to do much more at that point when the person wishing to sell a house comes to the real estate — Several members interjected. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : Let me finish. If members think this is so important, they will listen to the answer. Mr J.N. Hyde : So the Attorney General announced this without talking to you? The SPEAKER : Member for Perth, you have asked the question. I will give you an opportunity to ask a supplementary. I believe the minister is endeavouring to answer it. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : The real estate industry understands they are the most likely point to be able to identify a fraud. Mr J.N. Hyde interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Perth! Mr B.J. GRYLLS : At the moment, the industry has a voluntary code of conduct that says that real estate agents should do a 100-point identification check at the point of listing a property. Not all agents do that. The challenge we have as a government is that the first point this fraudulent transaction gets to government is after it is well and truly complete. Several members interjected. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : Yes it does. Just listen. Mr J.N. Hyde interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Perth, if you wish to ask a supplementary question, I am going to give you that opportunity. What I am going to ask for at the moment, though, is for you to remain silent while the minister endeavours to answer this question that you have asked; and I am sure some other people in this place are interested in the answer. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : Thank you, Mr Speaker. A person lists a property for sale. The agent goes out and sells it. They receive an offer and acceptance. The offer and acceptance is accepted by the person who listed the property for sale. Money exchanges hands. Settlement agents are engaged. Landgate does not get that document until all that has occurred. Mr W.J. Johnston : That is not true. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : The member does not know what he is talking about, then. Mr W.J. Johnston : I do know what I am talking about. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : Landgate only gets the documentation after the whole transaction has been completed. The most likely — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Perth, do you have a supplementary question?
Mr B.J. GRYLLS replied: (1)–(3) I thank the member for Perth for the question. On the weekend I was quoted in The West Australian , when asked about the instances of people losing their houses, and as Minister for Lands I have taken a great deal of interest in this, obviously. Landgate is an agency under my responsibility, and we are very determined to make sure that we can limit as far as possible these frauds and scams happening. With regard to the issue that the member is talking about, I spoke openly with the journalist about the concern coming back to me from the community, being that the community is very concerned that people could lose their house to a scam, and that under the Torrens system, which has been established over many, many years, the compensation — Mr J.N. Hyde : You were concerned a year ago and you did nothing. The SPEAKER : Member for Perth! Mr B.J. GRYLLS : — flows to the original owner of the house, and the person who bought the house via the fraudulent sale is allowed to keep the house. It has been expressed to me by many people that they are concerned about that. I said to the journalist that I would be investigating whether there could be a change in laws that affected that. I said I would investigate that. So, I have not spoken to the Attorney General, because I was asked this on Friday when I was in my electorate office in Northam. Mr A.P. O’Gorman : You’ve done nothing! The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup! Mr B.J. GRYLLS : I also have not consulted with REIWA, but I am very happy to hear that REIWA actually understands that the place most likely to stop these frauds is at the point where a person goes to sign up a property for sale with the real estate agent. Mr J.N. Hyde : They have never said that. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : They have. They have said that they understand that they need to do much more at that point when the person wishing to sell a house comes to the real estate — Several members interjected. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : Let me finish. If members think this is so important, they will listen to the answer. Mr J.N. Hyde : So the Attorney General announced this without talking to you? The SPEAKER : Member for Perth, you have asked the question. I will give you an opportunity to ask a supplementary. I believe the minister is endeavouring to answer it. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : The real estate industry understands they are the most likely point to be able to identify a fraud. Mr J.N. Hyde interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Perth! Mr B.J. GRYLLS : At the moment, the industry has a voluntary code of conduct that says that real estate agents should do a 100-point identification check at the point of listing a property. Not all agents do that. The challenge we have as a government is that the first point this fraudulent transaction gets to government is after it is well and truly complete. Several members interjected. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : Yes it does. Just listen. Mr J.N. Hyde interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Perth, if you wish to ask a supplementary question, I am going to give you that opportunity. What I am going to ask for at the moment, though, is for you to remain silent while the minister endeavours to answer this question that you have asked; and I am sure some other people in this place are interested in the answer. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : Thank you, Mr Speaker. A person lists a property for sale. The agent goes out and sells it. They receive an offer and acceptance. The offer and acceptance is accepted by the person who listed the property for sale. Money exchanges hands. Settlement agents are engaged. Landgate does not get that document until all that has occurred. Mr W.J. Johnston : That is not true. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : The member does not know what he is talking about, then. Mr W.J. Johnston : I do know what I am talking about. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : Landgate only gets the documentation after the whole transaction has been completed. The most likely — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Perth, do you have a supplementary question?
(1)–(3) I thank the member for Perth for the question. On the weekend I was quoted in The West Australian , when asked about the instances of people losing their houses, and as Minister for Lands I have taken a great deal of interest in this, obviously. Landgate is an agency under my responsibility, and we are very determined to make sure that we can limit as far as possible these frauds and scams happening. With regard to the issue that the member is talking about, I spoke openly with the journalist about the concern coming back to me from the community, being that the community is very concerned that people could lose their house to a scam, and that under the Torrens system, which has been established over many, many years, the compensation — Mr J.N. Hyde : You were concerned a year ago and you did nothing. The SPEAKER : Member for Perth! Mr B.J. GRYLLS : — flows to the original owner of the house, and the person who bought the house via the fraudulent sale is allowed to keep the house. It has been expressed to me by many people that they are concerned about that. I said to the journalist that I would be investigating whether there could be a change in laws that affected that. I said I would investigate that. So, I have not spoken to the Attorney General, because I was asked this on Friday when I was in my electorate office in Northam. Mr A.P. O’Gorman : You’ve done nothing! The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup! Mr B.J. GRYLLS : I also have not consulted with REIWA, but I am very happy to hear that REIWA actually understands that the place most likely to stop these frauds is at the point where a person goes to sign up a property for sale with the real estate agent. Mr J.N. Hyde : They have never said that. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : They have. They have said that they understand that they need to do much more at that point when the person wishing to sell a house comes to the real estate — Several members interjected. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : Let me finish. If members think this is so important, they will listen to the answer. Mr J.N. Hyde : So the Attorney General announced this without talking to you? The SPEAKER : Member for Perth, you have asked the question. I will give you an opportunity to ask a supplementary. I believe the minister is endeavouring to answer it. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : The real estate industry understands they are the most likely point to be able to identify a fraud. Mr J.N. Hyde interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Perth! Mr B.J. GRYLLS : At the moment, the industry has a voluntary code of conduct that says that real estate agents should do a 100-point identification check at the point of listing a property. Not all agents do that. The challenge we have as a government is that the first point this fraudulent transaction gets to government is after it is well and truly complete. Several members interjected. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : Yes it does. Just listen. Mr J.N. Hyde interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Perth, if you wish to ask a supplementary question, I am going to give you that opportunity. What I am going to ask for at the moment, though, is for you to remain silent while the minister endeavours to answer this question that you have asked; and I am sure some other people in this place are interested in the answer. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : Thank you, Mr Speaker. A person lists a property for sale. The agent goes out and sells it. They receive an offer and acceptance. The offer and acceptance is accepted by the person who listed the property for sale. Money exchanges hands. Settlement agents are engaged. Landgate does not get that document until all that has occurred. Mr W.J. Johnston : That is not true. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : The member does not know what he is talking about, then. Mr W.J. Johnston : I do know what I am talking about. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : Landgate only gets the documentation after the whole transaction has been completed. The most likely — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Perth, do you have a supplementary question?
Mr J.N. Hyde : You were concerned a year ago and you did nothing. The SPEAKER : Member for Perth! Mr B.J. GRYLLS : — flows to the original owner of the house, and the person who bought the house via the fraudulent sale is allowed to keep the house. It has been expressed to me by many people that they are concerned about that. I said to the journalist that I would be investigating whether there could be a change in laws that affected that. I said I would investigate that. So, I have not spoken to the Attorney General, because I was asked this on Friday when I was in my electorate office in Northam. Mr A.P. O’Gorman : You’ve done nothing! The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup! Mr B.J. GRYLLS : I also have not consulted with REIWA, but I am very happy to hear that REIWA actually understands that the place most likely to stop these frauds is at the point where a person goes to sign up a property for sale with the real estate agent. Mr J.N. Hyde : They have never said that. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : They have. They have said that they understand that they need to do much more at that point when the person wishing to sell a house comes to the real estate — Several members interjected. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : Let me finish. If members think this is so important, they will listen to the answer. Mr J.N. Hyde : So the Attorney General announced this without talking to you? The SPEAKER : Member for Perth, you have asked the question. I will give you an opportunity to ask a supplementary. I believe the minister is endeavouring to answer it. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : The real estate industry understands they are the most likely point to be able to identify a fraud. Mr J.N. Hyde interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Perth! Mr B.J. GRYLLS : At the moment, the industry has a voluntary code of conduct that says that real estate agents should do a 100-point identification check at the point of listing a property. Not all agents do that. The challenge we have as a government is that the first point this fraudulent transaction gets to government is after it is well and truly complete. Several members interjected. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : Yes it does. Just listen. Mr J.N. Hyde interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Perth, if you wish to ask a supplementary question, I am going to give you that opportunity. What I am going to ask for at the moment, though, is for you to remain silent while the minister endeavours to answer this question that you have asked; and I am sure some other people in this place are interested in the answer. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : Thank you, Mr Speaker. A person lists a property for sale. The agent goes out and sells it. They receive an offer and acceptance. The offer and acceptance is accepted by the person who listed the property for sale. Money exchanges hands. Settlement agents are engaged. Landgate does not get that document until all that has occurred. Mr W.J. Johnston : That is not true. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : The member does not know what he is talking about, then. Mr W.J. Johnston : I do know what I am talking about. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : Landgate only gets the documentation after the whole transaction has been completed. The most likely — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Perth, do you have a supplementary question?
The SPEAKER : Member for Perth! Mr B.J. GRYLLS : — flows to the original owner of the house, and the person who bought the house via the fraudulent sale is allowed to keep the house. It has been expressed to me by many people that they are concerned about that. I said to the journalist that I would be investigating whether there could be a change in laws that affected that. I said I would investigate that. So, I have not spoken to the Attorney General, because I was asked this on Friday when I was in my electorate office in Northam. Mr A.P. O’Gorman : You’ve done nothing! The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup! Mr B.J. GRYLLS : I also have not consulted with REIWA, but I am very happy to hear that REIWA actually understands that the place most likely to stop these frauds is at the point where a person goes to sign up a property for sale with the real estate agent. Mr J.N. Hyde : They have never said that. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : They have. They have said that they understand that they need to do much more at that point when the person wishing to sell a house comes to the real estate — Several members interjected. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : Let me finish. If members think this is so important, they will listen to the answer. Mr J.N. Hyde : So the Attorney General announced this without talking to you? The SPEAKER : Member for Perth, you have asked the question. I will give you an opportunity to ask a supplementary. I believe the minister is endeavouring to answer it. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : The real estate industry understands they are the most likely point to be able to identify a fraud. Mr J.N. Hyde interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Perth! Mr B.J. GRYLLS : At the moment, the industry has a voluntary code of conduct that says that real estate agents should do a 100-point identification check at the point of listing a property. Not all agents do that. The challenge we have as a government is that the first point this fraudulent transaction gets to government is after it is well and truly complete. Several members interjected. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : Yes it does. Just listen. Mr J.N. Hyde interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Perth, if you wish to ask a supplementary question, I am going to give you that opportunity. What I am going to ask for at the moment, though, is for you to remain silent while the minister endeavours to answer this question that you have asked; and I am sure some other people in this place are interested in the answer. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : Thank you, Mr Speaker. A person lists a property for sale. The agent goes out and sells it. They receive an offer and acceptance. The offer and acceptance is accepted by the person who listed the property for sale. Money exchanges hands. Settlement agents are engaged. Landgate does not get that document until all that has occurred. Mr W.J. Johnston : That is not true. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : The member does not know what he is talking about, then. Mr W.J. Johnston : I do know what I am talking about. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : Landgate only gets the documentation after the whole transaction has been completed. The most likely — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Perth, do you have a supplementary question?
Mr B.J. GRYLLS : — flows to the original owner of the house, and the person who bought the house via the fraudulent sale is allowed to keep the house. It has been expressed to me by many people that they are concerned about that. I said to the journalist that I would be investigating whether there could be a change in laws that affected that. I said I would investigate that. So, I have not spoken to the Attorney General, because I was asked this on Friday when I was in my electorate office in Northam. Mr A.P. O’Gorman : You’ve done nothing! The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup! Mr B.J. GRYLLS : I also have not consulted with REIWA, but I am very happy to hear that REIWA actually understands that the place most likely to stop these frauds is at the point where a person goes to sign up a property for sale with the real estate agent. Mr J.N. Hyde : They have never said that. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : They have. They have said that they understand that they need to do much more at that point when the person wishing to sell a house comes to the real estate — Several members interjected. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : Let me finish. If members think this is so important, they will listen to the answer. Mr J.N. Hyde : So the Attorney General announced this without talking to you? The SPEAKER : Member for Perth, you have asked the question. I will give you an opportunity to ask a supplementary. I believe the minister is endeavouring to answer it. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : The real estate industry understands they are the most likely point to be able to identify a fraud. Mr J.N. Hyde interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Perth! Mr B.J. GRYLLS : At the moment, the industry has a voluntary code of conduct that says that real estate agents should do a 100-point identification check at the point of listing a property. Not all agents do that. The challenge we have as a government is that the first point this fraudulent transaction gets to government is after it is well and truly complete. Several members interjected. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : Yes it does. Just listen. Mr J.N. Hyde interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Perth, if you wish to ask a supplementary question, I am going to give you that opportunity. What I am going to ask for at the moment, though, is for you to remain silent while the minister endeavours to answer this question that you have asked; and I am sure some other people in this place are interested in the answer. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : Thank you, Mr Speaker. A person lists a property for sale. The agent goes out and sells it. They receive an offer and acceptance. The offer and acceptance is accepted by the person who listed the property for sale. Money exchanges hands. Settlement agents are engaged. Landgate does not get that document until all that has occurred. Mr W.J. Johnston : That is not true. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : The member does not know what he is talking about, then. Mr W.J. Johnston : I do know what I am talking about. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : Landgate only gets the documentation after the whole transaction has been completed. The most likely — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Perth, do you have a supplementary question?
Mr A.P. O’Gorman : You’ve done nothing! The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup! Mr B.J. GRYLLS : I also have not consulted with REIWA, but I am very happy to hear that REIWA actually understands that the place most likely to stop these frauds is at the point where a person goes to sign up a property for sale with the real estate agent. Mr J.N. Hyde : They have never said that. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : They have. They have said that they understand that they need to do much more at that point when the person wishing to sell a house comes to the real estate — Several members interjected. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : Let me finish. If members think this is so important, they will listen to the answer. Mr J.N. Hyde : So the Attorney General announced this without talking to you? The SPEAKER : Member for Perth, you have asked the question. I will give you an opportunity to ask a supplementary. I believe the minister is endeavouring to answer it. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : The real estate industry understands they are the most likely point to be able to identify a fraud. Mr J.N. Hyde interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Perth! Mr B.J. GRYLLS : At the moment, the industry has a voluntary code of conduct that says that real estate agents should do a 100-point identification check at the point of listing a property. Not all agents do that. The challenge we have as a government is that the first point this fraudulent transaction gets to government is after it is well and truly complete. Several members interjected. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : Yes it does. Just listen. Mr J.N. Hyde interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Perth, if you wish to ask a supplementary question, I am going to give you that opportunity. What I am going to ask for at the moment, though, is for you to remain silent while the minister endeavours to answer this question that you have asked; and I am sure some other people in this place are interested in the answer. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : Thank you, Mr Speaker. A person lists a property for sale. The agent goes out and sells it. They receive an offer and acceptance. The offer and acceptance is accepted by the person who listed the property for sale. Money exchanges hands. Settlement agents are engaged. Landgate does not get that document until all that has occurred. Mr W.J. Johnston : That is not true. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : The member does not know what he is talking about, then. Mr W.J. Johnston : I do know what I am talking about. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : Landgate only gets the documentation after the whole transaction has been completed. The most likely — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Perth, do you have a supplementary question?
The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup! Mr B.J. GRYLLS : I also have not consulted with REIWA, but I am very happy to hear that REIWA actually understands that the place most likely to stop these frauds is at the point where a person goes to sign up a property for sale with the real estate agent. Mr J.N. Hyde : They have never said that. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : They have. They have said that they understand that they need to do much more at that point when the person wishing to sell a house comes to the real estate — Several members interjected. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : Let me finish. If members think this is so important, they will listen to the answer. Mr J.N. Hyde : So the Attorney General announced this without talking to you? The SPEAKER : Member for Perth, you have asked the question. I will give you an opportunity to ask a supplementary. I believe the minister is endeavouring to answer it. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : The real estate industry understands they are the most likely point to be able to identify a fraud. Mr J.N. Hyde interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Perth! Mr B.J. GRYLLS : At the moment, the industry has a voluntary code of conduct that says that real estate agents should do a 100-point identification check at the point of listing a property. Not all agents do that. The challenge we have as a government is that the first point this fraudulent transaction gets to government is after it is well and truly complete. Several members interjected. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : Yes it does. Just listen. Mr J.N. Hyde interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Perth, if you wish to ask a supplementary question, I am going to give you that opportunity. What I am going to ask for at the moment, though, is for you to remain silent while the minister endeavours to answer this question that you have asked; and I am sure some other people in this place are interested in the answer. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : Thank you, Mr Speaker. A person lists a property for sale. The agent goes out and sells it. They receive an offer and acceptance. The offer and acceptance is accepted by the person who listed the property for sale. Money exchanges hands. Settlement agents are engaged. Landgate does not get that document until all that has occurred. Mr W.J. Johnston : That is not true. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : The member does not know what he is talking about, then. Mr W.J. Johnston : I do know what I am talking about. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : Landgate only gets the documentation after the whole transaction has been completed. The most likely — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Perth, do you have a supplementary question?
Mr B.J. GRYLLS : I also have not consulted with REIWA, but I am very happy to hear that REIWA actually understands that the place most likely to stop these frauds is at the point where a person goes to sign up a property for sale with the real estate agent. Mr J.N. Hyde : They have never said that. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : They have. They have said that they understand that they need to do much more at that point when the person wishing to sell a house comes to the real estate — Several members interjected. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : Let me finish. If members think this is so important, they will listen to the answer. Mr J.N. Hyde : So the Attorney General announced this without talking to you? The SPEAKER : Member for Perth, you have asked the question. I will give you an opportunity to ask a supplementary. I believe the minister is endeavouring to answer it. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : The real estate industry understands they are the most likely point to be able to identify a fraud. Mr J.N. Hyde interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Perth! Mr B.J. GRYLLS : At the moment, the industry has a voluntary code of conduct that says that real estate agents should do a 100-point identification check at the point of listing a property. Not all agents do that. The challenge we have as a government is that the first point this fraudulent transaction gets to government is after it is well and truly complete. Several members interjected. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : Yes it does. Just listen. Mr J.N. Hyde interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Perth, if you wish to ask a supplementary question, I am going to give you that opportunity. What I am going to ask for at the moment, though, is for you to remain silent while the minister endeavours to answer this question that you have asked; and I am sure some other people in this place are interested in the answer. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : Thank you, Mr Speaker. A person lists a property for sale. The agent goes out and sells it. They receive an offer and acceptance. The offer and acceptance is accepted by the person who listed the property for sale. Money exchanges hands. Settlement agents are engaged. Landgate does not get that document until all that has occurred. Mr W.J. Johnston : That is not true. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : The member does not know what he is talking about, then. Mr W.J. Johnston : I do know what I am talking about. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : Landgate only gets the documentation after the whole transaction has been completed. The most likely — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Perth, do you have a supplementary question?
Mr J.N. Hyde : They have never said that. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : They have. They have said that they understand that they need to do much more at that point when the person wishing to sell a house comes to the real estate — Several members interjected. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : Let me finish. If members think this is so important, they will listen to the answer. Mr J.N. Hyde : So the Attorney General announced this without talking to you? The SPEAKER : Member for Perth, you have asked the question. I will give you an opportunity to ask a supplementary. I believe the minister is endeavouring to answer it. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : The real estate industry understands they are the most likely point to be able to identify a fraud. Mr J.N. Hyde interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Perth! Mr B.J. GRYLLS : At the moment, the industry has a voluntary code of conduct that says that real estate agents should do a 100-point identification check at the point of listing a property. Not all agents do that. The challenge we have as a government is that the first point this fraudulent transaction gets to government is after it is well and truly complete. Several members interjected. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : Yes it does. Just listen. Mr J.N. Hyde interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Perth, if you wish to ask a supplementary question, I am going to give you that opportunity. What I am going to ask for at the moment, though, is for you to remain silent while the minister endeavours to answer this question that you have asked; and I am sure some other people in this place are interested in the answer. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : Thank you, Mr Speaker. A person lists a property for sale. The agent goes out and sells it. They receive an offer and acceptance. The offer and acceptance is accepted by the person who listed the property for sale. Money exchanges hands. Settlement agents are engaged. Landgate does not get that document until all that has occurred. Mr W.J. Johnston : That is not true. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : The member does not know what he is talking about, then. Mr W.J. Johnston : I do know what I am talking about. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : Landgate only gets the documentation after the whole transaction has been completed. The most likely — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Perth, do you have a supplementary question?
Mr B.J. GRYLLS : They have. They have said that they understand that they need to do much more at that point when the person wishing to sell a house comes to the real estate — Several members interjected. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : Let me finish. If members think this is so important, they will listen to the answer. Mr J.N. Hyde : So the Attorney General announced this without talking to you? The SPEAKER : Member for Perth, you have asked the question. I will give you an opportunity to ask a supplementary. I believe the minister is endeavouring to answer it. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : The real estate industry understands they are the most likely point to be able to identify a fraud. Mr J.N. Hyde interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Perth! Mr B.J. GRYLLS : At the moment, the industry has a voluntary code of conduct that says that real estate agents should do a 100-point identification check at the point of listing a property. Not all agents do that. The challenge we have as a government is that the first point this fraudulent transaction gets to government is after it is well and truly complete. Several members interjected. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : Yes it does. Just listen. Mr J.N. Hyde interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Perth, if you wish to ask a supplementary question, I am going to give you that opportunity. What I am going to ask for at the moment, though, is for you to remain silent while the minister endeavours to answer this question that you have asked; and I am sure some other people in this place are interested in the answer. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : Thank you, Mr Speaker. A person lists a property for sale. The agent goes out and sells it. They receive an offer and acceptance. The offer and acceptance is accepted by the person who listed the property for sale. Money exchanges hands. Settlement agents are engaged. Landgate does not get that document until all that has occurred. Mr W.J. Johnston : That is not true. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : The member does not know what he is talking about, then. Mr W.J. Johnston : I do know what I am talking about. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : Landgate only gets the documentation after the whole transaction has been completed. The most likely — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Perth, do you have a supplementary question?
Several members interjected. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : Let me finish. If members think this is so important, they will listen to the answer. Mr J.N. Hyde : So the Attorney General announced this without talking to you? The SPEAKER : Member for Perth, you have asked the question. I will give you an opportunity to ask a supplementary. I believe the minister is endeavouring to answer it. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : The real estate industry understands they are the most likely point to be able to identify a fraud. Mr J.N. Hyde interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Perth! Mr B.J. GRYLLS : At the moment, the industry has a voluntary code of conduct that says that real estate agents should do a 100-point identification check at the point of listing a property. Not all agents do that. The challenge we have as a government is that the first point this fraudulent transaction gets to government is after it is well and truly complete. Several members interjected. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : Yes it does. Just listen. Mr J.N. Hyde interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Perth, if you wish to ask a supplementary question, I am going to give you that opportunity. What I am going to ask for at the moment, though, is for you to remain silent while the minister endeavours to answer this question that you have asked; and I am sure some other people in this place are interested in the answer. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : Thank you, Mr Speaker. A person lists a property for sale. The agent goes out and sells it. They receive an offer and acceptance. The offer and acceptance is accepted by the person who listed the property for sale. Money exchanges hands. Settlement agents are engaged. Landgate does not get that document until all that has occurred. Mr W.J. Johnston : That is not true. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : The member does not know what he is talking about, then. Mr W.J. Johnston : I do know what I am talking about. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : Landgate only gets the documentation after the whole transaction has been completed. The most likely — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Perth, do you have a supplementary question?
Mr B.J. GRYLLS : Let me finish. If members think this is so important, they will listen to the answer. Mr J.N. Hyde : So the Attorney General announced this without talking to you? The SPEAKER : Member for Perth, you have asked the question. I will give you an opportunity to ask a supplementary. I believe the minister is endeavouring to answer it. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : The real estate industry understands they are the most likely point to be able to identify a fraud. Mr J.N. Hyde interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Perth! Mr B.J. GRYLLS : At the moment, the industry has a voluntary code of conduct that says that real estate agents should do a 100-point identification check at the point of listing a property. Not all agents do that. The challenge we have as a government is that the first point this fraudulent transaction gets to government is after it is well and truly complete. Several members interjected. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : Yes it does. Just listen. Mr J.N. Hyde interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Perth, if you wish to ask a supplementary question, I am going to give you that opportunity. What I am going to ask for at the moment, though, is for you to remain silent while the minister endeavours to answer this question that you have asked; and I am sure some other people in this place are interested in the answer. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : Thank you, Mr Speaker. A person lists a property for sale. The agent goes out and sells it. They receive an offer and acceptance. The offer and acceptance is accepted by the person who listed the property for sale. Money exchanges hands. Settlement agents are engaged. Landgate does not get that document until all that has occurred. Mr W.J. Johnston : That is not true. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : The member does not know what he is talking about, then. Mr W.J. Johnston : I do know what I am talking about. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : Landgate only gets the documentation after the whole transaction has been completed. The most likely — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Perth, do you have a supplementary question?
Mr J.N. Hyde : So the Attorney General announced this without talking to you? The SPEAKER : Member for Perth, you have asked the question. I will give you an opportunity to ask a supplementary. I believe the minister is endeavouring to answer it. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : The real estate industry understands they are the most likely point to be able to identify a fraud. Mr J.N. Hyde interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Perth! Mr B.J. GRYLLS : At the moment, the industry has a voluntary code of conduct that says that real estate agents should do a 100-point identification check at the point of listing a property. Not all agents do that. The challenge we have as a government is that the first point this fraudulent transaction gets to government is after it is well and truly complete. Several members interjected. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : Yes it does. Just listen. Mr J.N. Hyde interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Perth, if you wish to ask a supplementary question, I am going to give you that opportunity. What I am going to ask for at the moment, though, is for you to remain silent while the minister endeavours to answer this question that you have asked; and I am sure some other people in this place are interested in the answer. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : Thank you, Mr Speaker. A person lists a property for sale. The agent goes out and sells it. They receive an offer and acceptance. The offer and acceptance is accepted by the person who listed the property for sale. Money exchanges hands. Settlement agents are engaged. Landgate does not get that document until all that has occurred. Mr W.J. Johnston : That is not true. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : The member does not know what he is talking about, then. Mr W.J. Johnston : I do know what I am talking about. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : Landgate only gets the documentation after the whole transaction has been completed. The most likely — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Perth, do you have a supplementary question?
The SPEAKER : Member for Perth, you have asked the question. I will give you an opportunity to ask a supplementary. I believe the minister is endeavouring to answer it. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : The real estate industry understands they are the most likely point to be able to identify a fraud. Mr J.N. Hyde interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Perth! Mr B.J. GRYLLS : At the moment, the industry has a voluntary code of conduct that says that real estate agents should do a 100-point identification check at the point of listing a property. Not all agents do that. The challenge we have as a government is that the first point this fraudulent transaction gets to government is after it is well and truly complete. Several members interjected. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : Yes it does. Just listen. Mr J.N. Hyde interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Perth, if you wish to ask a supplementary question, I am going to give you that opportunity. What I am going to ask for at the moment, though, is for you to remain silent while the minister endeavours to answer this question that you have asked; and I am sure some other people in this place are interested in the answer. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : Thank you, Mr Speaker. A person lists a property for sale. The agent goes out and sells it. They receive an offer and acceptance. The offer and acceptance is accepted by the person who listed the property for sale. Money exchanges hands. Settlement agents are engaged. Landgate does not get that document until all that has occurred. Mr W.J. Johnston : That is not true. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : The member does not know what he is talking about, then. Mr W.J. Johnston : I do know what I am talking about. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : Landgate only gets the documentation after the whole transaction has been completed. The most likely — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Perth, do you have a supplementary question?
Mr B.J. GRYLLS : The real estate industry understands they are the most likely point to be able to identify a fraud. Mr J.N. Hyde interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Perth! Mr B.J. GRYLLS : At the moment, the industry has a voluntary code of conduct that says that real estate agents should do a 100-point identification check at the point of listing a property. Not all agents do that. The challenge we have as a government is that the first point this fraudulent transaction gets to government is after it is well and truly complete. Several members interjected. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : Yes it does. Just listen. Mr J.N. Hyde interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Perth, if you wish to ask a supplementary question, I am going to give you that opportunity. What I am going to ask for at the moment, though, is for you to remain silent while the minister endeavours to answer this question that you have asked; and I am sure some other people in this place are interested in the answer. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : Thank you, Mr Speaker. A person lists a property for sale. The agent goes out and sells it. They receive an offer and acceptance. The offer and acceptance is accepted by the person who listed the property for sale. Money exchanges hands. Settlement agents are engaged. Landgate does not get that document until all that has occurred. Mr W.J. Johnston : That is not true. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : The member does not know what he is talking about, then. Mr W.J. Johnston : I do know what I am talking about. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : Landgate only gets the documentation after the whole transaction has been completed. The most likely — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Perth, do you have a supplementary question?
Mr J.N. Hyde interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Perth! Mr B.J. GRYLLS : At the moment, the industry has a voluntary code of conduct that says that real estate agents should do a 100-point identification check at the point of listing a property. Not all agents do that. The challenge we have as a government is that the first point this fraudulent transaction gets to government is after it is well and truly complete. Several members interjected. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : Yes it does. Just listen. Mr J.N. Hyde interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Perth, if you wish to ask a supplementary question, I am going to give you that opportunity. What I am going to ask for at the moment, though, is for you to remain silent while the minister endeavours to answer this question that you have asked; and I am sure some other people in this place are interested in the answer. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : Thank you, Mr Speaker. A person lists a property for sale. The agent goes out and sells it. They receive an offer and acceptance. The offer and acceptance is accepted by the person who listed the property for sale. Money exchanges hands. Settlement agents are engaged. Landgate does not get that document until all that has occurred. Mr W.J. Johnston : That is not true. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : The member does not know what he is talking about, then. Mr W.J. Johnston : I do know what I am talking about. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : Landgate only gets the documentation after the whole transaction has been completed. The most likely — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Perth, do you have a supplementary question?
The SPEAKER : Member for Perth! Mr B.J. GRYLLS : At the moment, the industry has a voluntary code of conduct that says that real estate agents should do a 100-point identification check at the point of listing a property. Not all agents do that. The challenge we have as a government is that the first point this fraudulent transaction gets to government is after it is well and truly complete. Several members interjected. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : Yes it does. Just listen. Mr J.N. Hyde interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Perth, if you wish to ask a supplementary question, I am going to give you that opportunity. What I am going to ask for at the moment, though, is for you to remain silent while the minister endeavours to answer this question that you have asked; and I am sure some other people in this place are interested in the answer. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : Thank you, Mr Speaker. A person lists a property for sale. The agent goes out and sells it. They receive an offer and acceptance. The offer and acceptance is accepted by the person who listed the property for sale. Money exchanges hands. Settlement agents are engaged. Landgate does not get that document until all that has occurred. Mr W.J. Johnston : That is not true. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : The member does not know what he is talking about, then. Mr W.J. Johnston : I do know what I am talking about. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : Landgate only gets the documentation after the whole transaction has been completed. The most likely — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Perth, do you have a supplementary question?
Mr B.J. GRYLLS : At the moment, the industry has a voluntary code of conduct that says that real estate agents should do a 100-point identification check at the point of listing a property. Not all agents do that. The challenge we have as a government is that the first point this fraudulent transaction gets to government is after it is well and truly complete. Several members interjected. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : Yes it does. Just listen. Mr J.N. Hyde interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Perth, if you wish to ask a supplementary question, I am going to give you that opportunity. What I am going to ask for at the moment, though, is for you to remain silent while the minister endeavours to answer this question that you have asked; and I am sure some other people in this place are interested in the answer. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : Thank you, Mr Speaker. A person lists a property for sale. The agent goes out and sells it. They receive an offer and acceptance. The offer and acceptance is accepted by the person who listed the property for sale. Money exchanges hands. Settlement agents are engaged. Landgate does not get that document until all that has occurred. Mr W.J. Johnston : That is not true. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : The member does not know what he is talking about, then. Mr W.J. Johnston : I do know what I am talking about. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : Landgate only gets the documentation after the whole transaction has been completed. The most likely — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Perth, do you have a supplementary question?
Several members interjected. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : Yes it does. Just listen. Mr J.N. Hyde interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Perth, if you wish to ask a supplementary question, I am going to give you that opportunity. What I am going to ask for at the moment, though, is for you to remain silent while the minister endeavours to answer this question that you have asked; and I am sure some other people in this place are interested in the answer. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : Thank you, Mr Speaker. A person lists a property for sale. The agent goes out and sells it. They receive an offer and acceptance. The offer and acceptance is accepted by the person who listed the property for sale. Money exchanges hands. Settlement agents are engaged. Landgate does not get that document until all that has occurred. Mr W.J. Johnston : That is not true. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : The member does not know what he is talking about, then. Mr W.J. Johnston : I do know what I am talking about. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : Landgate only gets the documentation after the whole transaction has been completed. The most likely — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Perth, do you have a supplementary question?
Mr B.J. GRYLLS : Yes it does. Just listen. Mr J.N. Hyde interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Perth, if you wish to ask a supplementary question, I am going to give you that opportunity. What I am going to ask for at the moment, though, is for you to remain silent while the minister endeavours to answer this question that you have asked; and I am sure some other people in this place are interested in the answer. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : Thank you, Mr Speaker. A person lists a property for sale. The agent goes out and sells it. They receive an offer and acceptance. The offer and acceptance is accepted by the person who listed the property for sale. Money exchanges hands. Settlement agents are engaged. Landgate does not get that document until all that has occurred. Mr W.J. Johnston : That is not true. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : The member does not know what he is talking about, then. Mr W.J. Johnston : I do know what I am talking about. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : Landgate only gets the documentation after the whole transaction has been completed. The most likely — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Perth, do you have a supplementary question?
Mr J.N. Hyde interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Perth, if you wish to ask a supplementary question, I am going to give you that opportunity. What I am going to ask for at the moment, though, is for you to remain silent while the minister endeavours to answer this question that you have asked; and I am sure some other people in this place are interested in the answer. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : Thank you, Mr Speaker. A person lists a property for sale. The agent goes out and sells it. They receive an offer and acceptance. The offer and acceptance is accepted by the person who listed the property for sale. Money exchanges hands. Settlement agents are engaged. Landgate does not get that document until all that has occurred. Mr W.J. Johnston : That is not true. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : The member does not know what he is talking about, then. Mr W.J. Johnston : I do know what I am talking about. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : Landgate only gets the documentation after the whole transaction has been completed. The most likely — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Perth, do you have a supplementary question?
The SPEAKER : Member for Perth, if you wish to ask a supplementary question, I am going to give you that opportunity. What I am going to ask for at the moment, though, is for you to remain silent while the minister endeavours to answer this question that you have asked; and I am sure some other people in this place are interested in the answer. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : Thank you, Mr Speaker. A person lists a property for sale. The agent goes out and sells it. They receive an offer and acceptance. The offer and acceptance is accepted by the person who listed the property for sale. Money exchanges hands. Settlement agents are engaged. Landgate does not get that document until all that has occurred. Mr W.J. Johnston : That is not true. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : The member does not know what he is talking about, then. Mr W.J. Johnston : I do know what I am talking about. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : Landgate only gets the documentation after the whole transaction has been completed. The most likely — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Perth, do you have a supplementary question?
Mr B.J. GRYLLS : Thank you, Mr Speaker. A person lists a property for sale. The agent goes out and sells it. They receive an offer and acceptance. The offer and acceptance is accepted by the person who listed the property for sale. Money exchanges hands. Settlement agents are engaged. Landgate does not get that document until all that has occurred. Mr W.J. Johnston : That is not true. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : The member does not know what he is talking about, then. Mr W.J. Johnston : I do know what I am talking about. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : Landgate only gets the documentation after the whole transaction has been completed. The most likely — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Perth, do you have a supplementary question?
Mr W.J. Johnston : That is not true. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : The member does not know what he is talking about, then. Mr W.J. Johnston : I do know what I am talking about. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : Landgate only gets the documentation after the whole transaction has been completed. The most likely — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Perth, do you have a supplementary question?
Mr B.J. GRYLLS : The member does not know what he is talking about, then. Mr W.J. Johnston : I do know what I am talking about. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : Landgate only gets the documentation after the whole transaction has been completed. The most likely — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Perth, do you have a supplementary question?
Mr W.J. Johnston : I do know what I am talking about. Mr B.J. GRYLLS : Landgate only gets the documentation after the whole transaction has been completed. The most likely — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Perth, do you have a supplementary question?
Mr B.J. GRYLLS : Landgate only gets the documentation after the whole transaction has been completed. The most likely — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Perth, do you have a supplementary question?
Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Perth, do you have a supplementary question?
The SPEAKER : Member for Perth, do you have a supplementary question?
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