❓ Question regarding the justification for closing a regional prison given rising crime rates and increased DNA testing capabilities. The Attorney General responds by criticising the previous government's high imprisonment rates for minor offences and argues for more cost-effective and rehabilitative community-based sentencing.
AnsweredQoN 460Legislative Assembly
QuestionView source ↗
I refer to statements by the Director of Public Prosecutions during budget estimates last year, the first of which reads - . . . crime in Western Australia appears to be on the increase. The second statement, referring to the United Kingdom when DNA testing was introduced, reads - . . . there have been large increases in the order of 30 per cent in the number of persons charged with criminal offences . . . Given that an additional 5 000 property offences occurred last financial year compared with the year before, that clearance rates have increased - Mrs M.H. Roberts: An increase in clearance rates? That means it is an improvement. Mr D.F. BARRON-SULLIVAN: The minister should hold her horses and wait for the whole question. The SPEAKER: Members, again, unfortunately, I have to refer mainly to the right-hand side of the House when I say that it is absolutely inappropriate to interject on questions. Members should at least listen to the question and I ask members not to interject on questions. Mr D.F. BARRON-SULLIVAN: Given that an additional 5 000 property offences occurred last financial year compared with the year before, that clearance rates have increased and that DNA testing will enable even more criminals to be brought to justice, how does this Government justify closing a regional prison at either Bunbury, Roebourne, Greenough or Albany? Mr J.A. McGINTY
AnswerView source ↗
Mr Speaker - Mr J.L. Bradshaw: It shut down the Pinjarra courthouse, so it can do it very easily. Mr J.A. McGINTY: I thank the member for Murray-Wellington; there is the answer to the question. One of the areas of greatest neglect under the former Government was our prison system. When this Government came to power two years ago, it found a system that was literally bursting at the seams as a consequence of policies that resulted in an unprecedented number of Western Australian citizens locked up in jail, generally speaking for minor offences and often as minor as driving without a motor vehicle licence. Mr R.F. Johnson: There were hardly any of those. Mr J.A. McGINTY: Yes, there was a significant number of them. A very large number of people in Western Australian prisons would have been far more effectively punished in the community, as occurs in each of the other States. Members need only look at the statistics for Western Australia compared with each of the other States. The Australian average rate of imprisonment when Labor came to government was approximately 145 per 100 000 of population. The Western Australian figure was 220 per 100 000 of population. Therefore, this State was locking up people at a rate that was dramatically higher - not quite double - than the Australian average. Two things need to be said about imprisonment as a penalty. These comments refer particularly to minor offenders. The first is that it is the most expensive option available. It costs approximately $70 000 to keep one prisoner in jail for one year in Western Australia. The Government has a certain pool of money - this is true of Governments on either side of politics. The Government must choose whether it wants to spend that money locking up minor offenders in the most expensive way possible or whether it wants to have that money available to spend on hospitals and schools. It is a simple choice that is available. In fact, it is a rational economic choice that needs to be made in those areas. The second point I should make about imprisonment is that I do not think anyone has ever come out of prison a better person for the experience. Many people need to be locked up. All the serious offenders in this State deserve to be locked up and, as far as I am concerned, they should be dealt with harshly. Mr M.J. Birney: Will you take an interjection? Mr J.A. McGINTY: No, just let me answer the question first. People are far more likely to be criminalised as a result of spending time in prison. That is borne out by the fact that two-thirds of the people, after walking out of the prison gate, will re-offend within two years. Therefore, it cannot be said that prison has a salutary effect on people, leading them away from crime and into a life of righteousness, because two-thirds will re-offend. Forty-five per cent of people who are released from prison in this State end up back in prison for having committed a sufficiently serious offence - Several members interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: I will repeat that when members opposite are quiet. Forty-five per cent of all people who are released from prison are convicted and put back into prison within a two-year period for having committed a sufficiently serious offence. A term of imprisonment may well serve a valuable punitive role for the individuals who go into prison, but it does not serve a role in preventing people from committing offences. In fact, the argument in Western Australia is that putting minor offenders in jail exposes them to the hardened criminal elements and they are more likely to re-offend. During 1998 there was a dramatic response to the policies of the previous Government under which there was approximately a 40 per cent increase in that one year in the number of people who were imprisoned. Those members who were in the Cabinet of the previous Government know what pressures that put on the allocation of financial resources. In the five years prior to the state election in 2001, expenditure on prisons in Western Australia increased by a massive 75 per cent. Money was taken out of other areas such as education, hospitals and policing in order to lock up people. Western Australians are no more criminal than are people anywhere else in the country. Therefore, why is Western Australia locking up its citizens in disproportionate numbers? When people commit offences they should be punished. Any rational debate on this issue would point to the fact that it is better to deal with minor offenders, when there is no real threat to the community, by punishing them in the community and reserving prison for the most serious offenders. Two things have occurred that have dramatically driven down the population in the State’s prison system in the past 18 months. Mr R.F. Johnson: You let them out. Mr J.A. McGINTY: No. The first and most dramatic contributor was the opening of the new privatised Acacia Prison. Just over 700 people were taken out of the government prison system and placed in the new privatised prison. The second thing that occurred is that we consciously - and I might say with some pride - took action to take the minor offenders out of the prisons. At the moment we have legislation before the Parliament to abolish sentences of less than six months. The simple proposition is that, generally speaking, a person who gets a sentence of less than six months is not a serious criminal who poses a great threat to the community. If that were the case, that person should get a longer sentence than that. Therefore, 400 prisoners who were minor offenders and should not have been in prison in the first place were taken out of the prison population, and 700 prisoners went to the privatised prison. Effectively, the state prison population dropped by 33 per cent. Throughout the State we have now closed wings of prisons and two prisons - Pardelup Prison Farm and Riverbank Prison. We are now considering taking advantage of the - Ms S.E. Walker interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: Here comes the virago from Nedlands. As a result of those two things happening, we are now seeking to use the excess bed capacity that currently exists in the prison system to accommodate people from one prison. That will effect savings to the order of $3 million to $4 million a year. Consideration is being given to the four prisons that were mentioned by the member for Mitchell. The previous Government regarded it as a sign of its success that it was locking up more and more people. I regard it as a sign of its failure.
Mrs M.H. Roberts: An increase in clearance rates? That means it is an improvement. Mr D.F. BARRON-SULLIVAN: The minister should hold her horses and wait for the whole question. The SPEAKER: Members, again, unfortunately, I have to refer mainly to the right-hand side of the House when I say that it is absolutely inappropriate to interject on questions. Members should at least listen to the question and I ask members not to interject on questions. Mr D.F. BARRON-SULLIVAN: Given that an additional 5 000 property offences occurred last financial year compared with the year before, that clearance rates have increased and that DNA testing will enable even more criminals to be brought to justice, how does this Government justify closing a regional prison at either Bunbury, Roebourne, Greenough or Albany? Mr J.A. McGINTY replied: Mr Speaker - Mr J.L. Bradshaw: It shut down the Pinjarra courthouse, so it can do it very easily. Mr J.A. McGINTY: I thank the member for Murray-Wellington; there is the answer to the question. One of the areas of greatest neglect under the former Government was our prison system. When this Government came to power two years ago, it found a system that was literally bursting at the seams as a consequence of policies that resulted in an unprecedented number of Western Australian citizens locked up in jail, generally speaking for minor offences and often as minor as driving without a motor vehicle licence. Mr R.F. Johnson: There were hardly any of those. Mr J.A. McGINTY: Yes, there was a significant number of them. A very large number of people in Western Australian prisons would have been far more effectively punished in the community, as occurs in each of the other States. Members need only look at the statistics for Western Australia compared with each of the other States. The Australian average rate of imprisonment when Labor came to government was approximately 145 per 100 000 of population. The Western Australian figure was 220 per 100 000 of population. Therefore, this State was locking up people at a rate that was dramatically higher - not quite double - than the Australian average. Two things need to be said about imprisonment as a penalty. These comments refer particularly to minor offenders. The first is that it is the most expensive option available. It costs approximately $70 000 to keep one prisoner in jail for one year in Western Australia. The Government has a certain pool of money - this is true of Governments on either side of politics. The Government must choose whether it wants to spend that money locking up minor offenders in the most expensive way possible or whether it wants to have that money available to spend on hospitals and schools. It is a simple choice that is available. In fact, it is a rational economic choice that needs to be made in those areas. The second point I should make about imprisonment is that I do not think anyone has ever come out of prison a better person for the experience. Many people need to be locked up. All the serious offenders in this State deserve to be locked up and, as far as I am concerned, they should be dealt with harshly. Mr M.J. Birney: Will you take an interjection? Mr J.A. McGINTY: No, just let me answer the question first. People are far more likely to be criminalised as a result of spending time in prison. That is borne out by the fact that two-thirds of the people, after walking out of the prison gate, will re-offend within two years. Therefore, it cannot be said that prison has a salutary effect on people, leading them away from crime and into a life of righteousness, because two-thirds will re-offend. Forty-five per cent of people who are released from prison in this State end up back in prison for having committed a sufficiently serious offence - Several members interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: I will repeat that when members opposite are quiet. Forty-five per cent of all people who are released from prison are convicted and put back into prison within a two-year period for having committed a sufficiently serious offence. A term of imprisonment may well serve a valuable punitive role for the individuals who go into prison, but it does not serve a role in preventing people from committing offences. In fact, the argument in Western Australia is that putting minor offenders in jail exposes them to the hardened criminal elements and they are more likely to re-offend. During 1998 there was a dramatic response to the policies of the previous Government under which there was approximately a 40 per cent increase in that one year in the number of people who were imprisoned. Those members who were in the Cabinet of the previous Government know what pressures that put on the allocation of financial resources. In the five years prior to the state election in 2001, expenditure on prisons in Western Australia increased by a massive 75 per cent. Money was taken out of other areas such as education, hospitals and policing in order to lock up people. Western Australians are no more criminal than are people anywhere else in the country. Therefore, why is Western Australia locking up its citizens in disproportionate numbers? When people commit offences they should be punished. Any rational debate on this issue would point to the fact that it is better to deal with minor offenders, when there is no real threat to the community, by punishing them in the community and reserving prison for the most serious offenders. Two things have occurred that have dramatically driven down the population in the State’s prison system in the past 18 months. Mr R.F. Johnson: You let them out. Mr J.A. McGINTY: No. The first and most dramatic contributor was the opening of the new privatised Acacia Prison. Just over 700 people were taken out of the government prison system and placed in the new privatised prison. The second thing that occurred is that we consciously - and I might say with some pride - took action to take the minor offenders out of the prisons. At the moment we have legislation before the Parliament to abolish sentences of less than six months. The simple proposition is that, generally speaking, a person who gets a sentence of less than six months is not a serious criminal who poses a great threat to the community. If that were the case, that person should get a longer sentence than that. Therefore, 400 prisoners who were minor offenders and should not have been in prison in the first place were taken out of the prison population, and 700 prisoners went to the privatised prison. Effectively, the state prison population dropped by 33 per cent. Throughout the State we have now closed wings of prisons and two prisons - Pardelup Prison Farm and Riverbank Prison. We are now considering taking advantage of the - Ms S.E. Walker interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: Here comes the virago from Nedlands. As a result of those two things happening, we are now seeking to use the excess bed capacity that currently exists in the prison system to accommodate people from one prison. That will effect savings to the order of $3 million to $4 million a year. Consideration is being given to the four prisons that were mentioned by the member for Mitchell. The previous Government regarded it as a sign of its success that it was locking up more and more people. I regard it as a sign of its failure.
Mr D.F. BARRON-SULLIVAN: The minister should hold her horses and wait for the whole question. The SPEAKER: Members, again, unfortunately, I have to refer mainly to the right-hand side of the House when I say that it is absolutely inappropriate to interject on questions. Members should at least listen to the question and I ask members not to interject on questions. Mr D.F. BARRON-SULLIVAN: Given that an additional 5 000 property offences occurred last financial year compared with the year before, that clearance rates have increased and that DNA testing will enable even more criminals to be brought to justice, how does this Government justify closing a regional prison at either Bunbury, Roebourne, Greenough or Albany? Mr J.A. McGINTY replied: Mr Speaker - Mr J.L. Bradshaw: It shut down the Pinjarra courthouse, so it can do it very easily. Mr J.A. McGINTY: I thank the member for Murray-Wellington; there is the answer to the question. One of the areas of greatest neglect under the former Government was our prison system. When this Government came to power two years ago, it found a system that was literally bursting at the seams as a consequence of policies that resulted in an unprecedented number of Western Australian citizens locked up in jail, generally speaking for minor offences and often as minor as driving without a motor vehicle licence. Mr R.F. Johnson: There were hardly any of those. Mr J.A. McGINTY: Yes, there was a significant number of them. A very large number of people in Western Australian prisons would have been far more effectively punished in the community, as occurs in each of the other States. Members need only look at the statistics for Western Australia compared with each of the other States. The Australian average rate of imprisonment when Labor came to government was approximately 145 per 100 000 of population. The Western Australian figure was 220 per 100 000 of population. Therefore, this State was locking up people at a rate that was dramatically higher - not quite double - than the Australian average. Two things need to be said about imprisonment as a penalty. These comments refer particularly to minor offenders. The first is that it is the most expensive option available. It costs approximately $70 000 to keep one prisoner in jail for one year in Western Australia. The Government has a certain pool of money - this is true of Governments on either side of politics. The Government must choose whether it wants to spend that money locking up minor offenders in the most expensive way possible or whether it wants to have that money available to spend on hospitals and schools. It is a simple choice that is available. In fact, it is a rational economic choice that needs to be made in those areas. The second point I should make about imprisonment is that I do not think anyone has ever come out of prison a better person for the experience. Many people need to be locked up. All the serious offenders in this State deserve to be locked up and, as far as I am concerned, they should be dealt with harshly. Mr M.J. Birney: Will you take an interjection? Mr J.A. McGINTY: No, just let me answer the question first. People are far more likely to be criminalised as a result of spending time in prison. That is borne out by the fact that two-thirds of the people, after walking out of the prison gate, will re-offend within two years. Therefore, it cannot be said that prison has a salutary effect on people, leading them away from crime and into a life of righteousness, because two-thirds will re-offend. Forty-five per cent of people who are released from prison in this State end up back in prison for having committed a sufficiently serious offence - Several members interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: I will repeat that when members opposite are quiet. Forty-five per cent of all people who are released from prison are convicted and put back into prison within a two-year period for having committed a sufficiently serious offence. A term of imprisonment may well serve a valuable punitive role for the individuals who go into prison, but it does not serve a role in preventing people from committing offences. In fact, the argument in Western Australia is that putting minor offenders in jail exposes them to the hardened criminal elements and they are more likely to re-offend. During 1998 there was a dramatic response to the policies of the previous Government under which there was approximately a 40 per cent increase in that one year in the number of people who were imprisoned. Those members who were in the Cabinet of the previous Government know what pressures that put on the allocation of financial resources. In the five years prior to the state election in 2001, expenditure on prisons in Western Australia increased by a massive 75 per cent. Money was taken out of other areas such as education, hospitals and policing in order to lock up people. Western Australians are no more criminal than are people anywhere else in the country. Therefore, why is Western Australia locking up its citizens in disproportionate numbers? When people commit offences they should be punished. Any rational debate on this issue would point to the fact that it is better to deal with minor offenders, when there is no real threat to the community, by punishing them in the community and reserving prison for the most serious offenders. Two things have occurred that have dramatically driven down the population in the State’s prison system in the past 18 months. Mr R.F. Johnson: You let them out. Mr J.A. McGINTY: No. The first and most dramatic contributor was the opening of the new privatised Acacia Prison. Just over 700 people were taken out of the government prison system and placed in the new privatised prison. The second thing that occurred is that we consciously - and I might say with some pride - took action to take the minor offenders out of the prisons. At the moment we have legislation before the Parliament to abolish sentences of less than six months. The simple proposition is that, generally speaking, a person who gets a sentence of less than six months is not a serious criminal who poses a great threat to the community. If that were the case, that person should get a longer sentence than that. Therefore, 400 prisoners who were minor offenders and should not have been in prison in the first place were taken out of the prison population, and 700 prisoners went to the privatised prison. Effectively, the state prison population dropped by 33 per cent. Throughout the State we have now closed wings of prisons and two prisons - Pardelup Prison Farm and Riverbank Prison. We are now considering taking advantage of the - Ms S.E. Walker interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: Here comes the virago from Nedlands. As a result of those two things happening, we are now seeking to use the excess bed capacity that currently exists in the prison system to accommodate people from one prison. That will effect savings to the order of $3 million to $4 million a year. Consideration is being given to the four prisons that were mentioned by the member for Mitchell. The previous Government regarded it as a sign of its success that it was locking up more and more people. I regard it as a sign of its failure.
The SPEAKER: Members, again, unfortunately, I have to refer mainly to the right-hand side of the House when I say that it is absolutely inappropriate to interject on questions. Members should at least listen to the question and I ask members not to interject on questions. Mr D.F. BARRON-SULLIVAN: Given that an additional 5 000 property offences occurred last financial year compared with the year before, that clearance rates have increased and that DNA testing will enable even more criminals to be brought to justice, how does this Government justify closing a regional prison at either Bunbury, Roebourne, Greenough or Albany? Mr J.A. McGINTY replied: Mr Speaker - Mr J.L. Bradshaw: It shut down the Pinjarra courthouse, so it can do it very easily. Mr J.A. McGINTY: I thank the member for Murray-Wellington; there is the answer to the question. One of the areas of greatest neglect under the former Government was our prison system. When this Government came to power two years ago, it found a system that was literally bursting at the seams as a consequence of policies that resulted in an unprecedented number of Western Australian citizens locked up in jail, generally speaking for minor offences and often as minor as driving without a motor vehicle licence. Mr R.F. Johnson: There were hardly any of those. Mr J.A. McGINTY: Yes, there was a significant number of them. A very large number of people in Western Australian prisons would have been far more effectively punished in the community, as occurs in each of the other States. Members need only look at the statistics for Western Australia compared with each of the other States. The Australian average rate of imprisonment when Labor came to government was approximately 145 per 100 000 of population. The Western Australian figure was 220 per 100 000 of population. Therefore, this State was locking up people at a rate that was dramatically higher - not quite double - than the Australian average. Two things need to be said about imprisonment as a penalty. These comments refer particularly to minor offenders. The first is that it is the most expensive option available. It costs approximately $70 000 to keep one prisoner in jail for one year in Western Australia. The Government has a certain pool of money - this is true of Governments on either side of politics. The Government must choose whether it wants to spend that money locking up minor offenders in the most expensive way possible or whether it wants to have that money available to spend on hospitals and schools. It is a simple choice that is available. In fact, it is a rational economic choice that needs to be made in those areas. The second point I should make about imprisonment is that I do not think anyone has ever come out of prison a better person for the experience. Many people need to be locked up. All the serious offenders in this State deserve to be locked up and, as far as I am concerned, they should be dealt with harshly. Mr M.J. Birney: Will you take an interjection? Mr J.A. McGINTY: No, just let me answer the question first. People are far more likely to be criminalised as a result of spending time in prison. That is borne out by the fact that two-thirds of the people, after walking out of the prison gate, will re-offend within two years. Therefore, it cannot be said that prison has a salutary effect on people, leading them away from crime and into a life of righteousness, because two-thirds will re-offend. Forty-five per cent of people who are released from prison in this State end up back in prison for having committed a sufficiently serious offence - Several members interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: I will repeat that when members opposite are quiet. Forty-five per cent of all people who are released from prison are convicted and put back into prison within a two-year period for having committed a sufficiently serious offence. A term of imprisonment may well serve a valuable punitive role for the individuals who go into prison, but it does not serve a role in preventing people from committing offences. In fact, the argument in Western Australia is that putting minor offenders in jail exposes them to the hardened criminal elements and they are more likely to re-offend. During 1998 there was a dramatic response to the policies of the previous Government under which there was approximately a 40 per cent increase in that one year in the number of people who were imprisoned. Those members who were in the Cabinet of the previous Government know what pressures that put on the allocation of financial resources. In the five years prior to the state election in 2001, expenditure on prisons in Western Australia increased by a massive 75 per cent. Money was taken out of other areas such as education, hospitals and policing in order to lock up people. Western Australians are no more criminal than are people anywhere else in the country. Therefore, why is Western Australia locking up its citizens in disproportionate numbers? When people commit offences they should be punished. Any rational debate on this issue would point to the fact that it is better to deal with minor offenders, when there is no real threat to the community, by punishing them in the community and reserving prison for the most serious offenders. Two things have occurred that have dramatically driven down the population in the State’s prison system in the past 18 months. Mr R.F. Johnson: You let them out. Mr J.A. McGINTY: No. The first and most dramatic contributor was the opening of the new privatised Acacia Prison. Just over 700 people were taken out of the government prison system and placed in the new privatised prison. The second thing that occurred is that we consciously - and I might say with some pride - took action to take the minor offenders out of the prisons. At the moment we have legislation before the Parliament to abolish sentences of less than six months. The simple proposition is that, generally speaking, a person who gets a sentence of less than six months is not a serious criminal who poses a great threat to the community. If that were the case, that person should get a longer sentence than that. Therefore, 400 prisoners who were minor offenders and should not have been in prison in the first place were taken out of the prison population, and 700 prisoners went to the privatised prison. Effectively, the state prison population dropped by 33 per cent. Throughout the State we have now closed wings of prisons and two prisons - Pardelup Prison Farm and Riverbank Prison. We are now considering taking advantage of the - Ms S.E. Walker interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: Here comes the virago from Nedlands. As a result of those two things happening, we are now seeking to use the excess bed capacity that currently exists in the prison system to accommodate people from one prison. That will effect savings to the order of $3 million to $4 million a year. Consideration is being given to the four prisons that were mentioned by the member for Mitchell. The previous Government regarded it as a sign of its success that it was locking up more and more people. I regard it as a sign of its failure.
Mr D.F. BARRON-SULLIVAN: Given that an additional 5 000 property offences occurred last financial year compared with the year before, that clearance rates have increased and that DNA testing will enable even more criminals to be brought to justice, how does this Government justify closing a regional prison at either Bunbury, Roebourne, Greenough or Albany? Mr J.A. McGINTY replied: Mr Speaker - Mr J.L. Bradshaw: It shut down the Pinjarra courthouse, so it can do it very easily. Mr J.A. McGINTY: I thank the member for Murray-Wellington; there is the answer to the question. One of the areas of greatest neglect under the former Government was our prison system. When this Government came to power two years ago, it found a system that was literally bursting at the seams as a consequence of policies that resulted in an unprecedented number of Western Australian citizens locked up in jail, generally speaking for minor offences and often as minor as driving without a motor vehicle licence. Mr R.F. Johnson: There were hardly any of those. Mr J.A. McGINTY: Yes, there was a significant number of them. A very large number of people in Western Australian prisons would have been far more effectively punished in the community, as occurs in each of the other States. Members need only look at the statistics for Western Australia compared with each of the other States. The Australian average rate of imprisonment when Labor came to government was approximately 145 per 100 000 of population. The Western Australian figure was 220 per 100 000 of population. Therefore, this State was locking up people at a rate that was dramatically higher - not quite double - than the Australian average. Two things need to be said about imprisonment as a penalty. These comments refer particularly to minor offenders. The first is that it is the most expensive option available. It costs approximately $70 000 to keep one prisoner in jail for one year in Western Australia. The Government has a certain pool of money - this is true of Governments on either side of politics. The Government must choose whether it wants to spend that money locking up minor offenders in the most expensive way possible or whether it wants to have that money available to spend on hospitals and schools. It is a simple choice that is available. In fact, it is a rational economic choice that needs to be made in those areas. The second point I should make about imprisonment is that I do not think anyone has ever come out of prison a better person for the experience. Many people need to be locked up. All the serious offenders in this State deserve to be locked up and, as far as I am concerned, they should be dealt with harshly. Mr M.J. Birney: Will you take an interjection? Mr J.A. McGINTY: No, just let me answer the question first. People are far more likely to be criminalised as a result of spending time in prison. That is borne out by the fact that two-thirds of the people, after walking out of the prison gate, will re-offend within two years. Therefore, it cannot be said that prison has a salutary effect on people, leading them away from crime and into a life of righteousness, because two-thirds will re-offend. Forty-five per cent of people who are released from prison in this State end up back in prison for having committed a sufficiently serious offence - Several members interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: I will repeat that when members opposite are quiet. Forty-five per cent of all people who are released from prison are convicted and put back into prison within a two-year period for having committed a sufficiently serious offence. A term of imprisonment may well serve a valuable punitive role for the individuals who go into prison, but it does not serve a role in preventing people from committing offences. In fact, the argument in Western Australia is that putting minor offenders in jail exposes them to the hardened criminal elements and they are more likely to re-offend. During 1998 there was a dramatic response to the policies of the previous Government under which there was approximately a 40 per cent increase in that one year in the number of people who were imprisoned. Those members who were in the Cabinet of the previous Government know what pressures that put on the allocation of financial resources. In the five years prior to the state election in 2001, expenditure on prisons in Western Australia increased by a massive 75 per cent. Money was taken out of other areas such as education, hospitals and policing in order to lock up people. Western Australians are no more criminal than are people anywhere else in the country. Therefore, why is Western Australia locking up its citizens in disproportionate numbers? When people commit offences they should be punished. Any rational debate on this issue would point to the fact that it is better to deal with minor offenders, when there is no real threat to the community, by punishing them in the community and reserving prison for the most serious offenders. Two things have occurred that have dramatically driven down the population in the State’s prison system in the past 18 months. Mr R.F. Johnson: You let them out. Mr J.A. McGINTY: No. The first and most dramatic contributor was the opening of the new privatised Acacia Prison. Just over 700 people were taken out of the government prison system and placed in the new privatised prison. The second thing that occurred is that we consciously - and I might say with some pride - took action to take the minor offenders out of the prisons. At the moment we have legislation before the Parliament to abolish sentences of less than six months. The simple proposition is that, generally speaking, a person who gets a sentence of less than six months is not a serious criminal who poses a great threat to the community. If that were the case, that person should get a longer sentence than that. Therefore, 400 prisoners who were minor offenders and should not have been in prison in the first place were taken out of the prison population, and 700 prisoners went to the privatised prison. Effectively, the state prison population dropped by 33 per cent. Throughout the State we have now closed wings of prisons and two prisons - Pardelup Prison Farm and Riverbank Prison. We are now considering taking advantage of the - Ms S.E. Walker interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: Here comes the virago from Nedlands. As a result of those two things happening, we are now seeking to use the excess bed capacity that currently exists in the prison system to accommodate people from one prison. That will effect savings to the order of $3 million to $4 million a year. Consideration is being given to the four prisons that were mentioned by the member for Mitchell. The previous Government regarded it as a sign of its success that it was locking up more and more people. I regard it as a sign of its failure.
Mr J.A. McGINTY replied: Mr Speaker - Mr J.L. Bradshaw: It shut down the Pinjarra courthouse, so it can do it very easily. Mr J.A. McGINTY: I thank the member for Murray-Wellington; there is the answer to the question. One of the areas of greatest neglect under the former Government was our prison system. When this Government came to power two years ago, it found a system that was literally bursting at the seams as a consequence of policies that resulted in an unprecedented number of Western Australian citizens locked up in jail, generally speaking for minor offences and often as minor as driving without a motor vehicle licence. Mr R.F. Johnson: There were hardly any of those. Mr J.A. McGINTY: Yes, there was a significant number of them. A very large number of people in Western Australian prisons would have been far more effectively punished in the community, as occurs in each of the other States. Members need only look at the statistics for Western Australia compared with each of the other States. The Australian average rate of imprisonment when Labor came to government was approximately 145 per 100 000 of population. The Western Australian figure was 220 per 100 000 of population. Therefore, this State was locking up people at a rate that was dramatically higher - not quite double - than the Australian average. Two things need to be said about imprisonment as a penalty. These comments refer particularly to minor offenders. The first is that it is the most expensive option available. It costs approximately $70 000 to keep one prisoner in jail for one year in Western Australia. The Government has a certain pool of money - this is true of Governments on either side of politics. The Government must choose whether it wants to spend that money locking up minor offenders in the most expensive way possible or whether it wants to have that money available to spend on hospitals and schools. It is a simple choice that is available. In fact, it is a rational economic choice that needs to be made in those areas. The second point I should make about imprisonment is that I do not think anyone has ever come out of prison a better person for the experience. Many people need to be locked up. All the serious offenders in this State deserve to be locked up and, as far as I am concerned, they should be dealt with harshly. Mr M.J. Birney: Will you take an interjection? Mr J.A. McGINTY: No, just let me answer the question first. People are far more likely to be criminalised as a result of spending time in prison. That is borne out by the fact that two-thirds of the people, after walking out of the prison gate, will re-offend within two years. Therefore, it cannot be said that prison has a salutary effect on people, leading them away from crime and into a life of righteousness, because two-thirds will re-offend. Forty-five per cent of people who are released from prison in this State end up back in prison for having committed a sufficiently serious offence - Several members interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: I will repeat that when members opposite are quiet. Forty-five per cent of all people who are released from prison are convicted and put back into prison within a two-year period for having committed a sufficiently serious offence. A term of imprisonment may well serve a valuable punitive role for the individuals who go into prison, but it does not serve a role in preventing people from committing offences. In fact, the argument in Western Australia is that putting minor offenders in jail exposes them to the hardened criminal elements and they are more likely to re-offend. During 1998 there was a dramatic response to the policies of the previous Government under which there was approximately a 40 per cent increase in that one year in the number of people who were imprisoned. Those members who were in the Cabinet of the previous Government know what pressures that put on the allocation of financial resources. In the five years prior to the state election in 2001, expenditure on prisons in Western Australia increased by a massive 75 per cent. Money was taken out of other areas such as education, hospitals and policing in order to lock up people. Western Australians are no more criminal than are people anywhere else in the country. Therefore, why is Western Australia locking up its citizens in disproportionate numbers? When people commit offences they should be punished. Any rational debate on this issue would point to the fact that it is better to deal with minor offenders, when there is no real threat to the community, by punishing them in the community and reserving prison for the most serious offenders. Two things have occurred that have dramatically driven down the population in the State’s prison system in the past 18 months. Mr R.F. Johnson: You let them out. Mr J.A. McGINTY: No. The first and most dramatic contributor was the opening of the new privatised Acacia Prison. Just over 700 people were taken out of the government prison system and placed in the new privatised prison. The second thing that occurred is that we consciously - and I might say with some pride - took action to take the minor offenders out of the prisons. At the moment we have legislation before the Parliament to abolish sentences of less than six months. The simple proposition is that, generally speaking, a person who gets a sentence of less than six months is not a serious criminal who poses a great threat to the community. If that were the case, that person should get a longer sentence than that. Therefore, 400 prisoners who were minor offenders and should not have been in prison in the first place were taken out of the prison population, and 700 prisoners went to the privatised prison. Effectively, the state prison population dropped by 33 per cent. Throughout the State we have now closed wings of prisons and two prisons - Pardelup Prison Farm and Riverbank Prison. We are now considering taking advantage of the - Ms S.E. Walker interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: Here comes the virago from Nedlands. As a result of those two things happening, we are now seeking to use the excess bed capacity that currently exists in the prison system to accommodate people from one prison. That will effect savings to the order of $3 million to $4 million a year. Consideration is being given to the four prisons that were mentioned by the member for Mitchell. The previous Government regarded it as a sign of its success that it was locking up more and more people. I regard it as a sign of its failure.
Mr Speaker - Mr J.L. Bradshaw: It shut down the Pinjarra courthouse, so it can do it very easily. Mr J.A. McGINTY: I thank the member for Murray-Wellington; there is the answer to the question. One of the areas of greatest neglect under the former Government was our prison system. When this Government came to power two years ago, it found a system that was literally bursting at the seams as a consequence of policies that resulted in an unprecedented number of Western Australian citizens locked up in jail, generally speaking for minor offences and often as minor as driving without a motor vehicle licence. Mr R.F. Johnson: There were hardly any of those. Mr J.A. McGINTY: Yes, there was a significant number of them. A very large number of people in Western Australian prisons would have been far more effectively punished in the community, as occurs in each of the other States. Members need only look at the statistics for Western Australia compared with each of the other States. The Australian average rate of imprisonment when Labor came to government was approximately 145 per 100 000 of population. The Western Australian figure was 220 per 100 000 of population. Therefore, this State was locking up people at a rate that was dramatically higher - not quite double - than the Australian average. Two things need to be said about imprisonment as a penalty. These comments refer particularly to minor offenders. The first is that it is the most expensive option available. It costs approximately $70 000 to keep one prisoner in jail for one year in Western Australia. The Government has a certain pool of money - this is true of Governments on either side of politics. The Government must choose whether it wants to spend that money locking up minor offenders in the most expensive way possible or whether it wants to have that money available to spend on hospitals and schools. It is a simple choice that is available. In fact, it is a rational economic choice that needs to be made in those areas. The second point I should make about imprisonment is that I do not think anyone has ever come out of prison a better person for the experience. Many people need to be locked up. All the serious offenders in this State deserve to be locked up and, as far as I am concerned, they should be dealt with harshly. Mr M.J. Birney: Will you take an interjection? Mr J.A. McGINTY: No, just let me answer the question first. People are far more likely to be criminalised as a result of spending time in prison. That is borne out by the fact that two-thirds of the people, after walking out of the prison gate, will re-offend within two years. Therefore, it cannot be said that prison has a salutary effect on people, leading them away from crime and into a life of righteousness, because two-thirds will re-offend. Forty-five per cent of people who are released from prison in this State end up back in prison for having committed a sufficiently serious offence - Several members interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: I will repeat that when members opposite are quiet. Forty-five per cent of all people who are released from prison are convicted and put back into prison within a two-year period for having committed a sufficiently serious offence. A term of imprisonment may well serve a valuable punitive role for the individuals who go into prison, but it does not serve a role in preventing people from committing offences. In fact, the argument in Western Australia is that putting minor offenders in jail exposes them to the hardened criminal elements and they are more likely to re-offend. During 1998 there was a dramatic response to the policies of the previous Government under which there was approximately a 40 per cent increase in that one year in the number of people who were imprisoned. Those members who were in the Cabinet of the previous Government know what pressures that put on the allocation of financial resources. In the five years prior to the state election in 2001, expenditure on prisons in Western Australia increased by a massive 75 per cent. Money was taken out of other areas such as education, hospitals and policing in order to lock up people. Western Australians are no more criminal than are people anywhere else in the country. Therefore, why is Western Australia locking up its citizens in disproportionate numbers? When people commit offences they should be punished. Any rational debate on this issue would point to the fact that it is better to deal with minor offenders, when there is no real threat to the community, by punishing them in the community and reserving prison for the most serious offenders. Two things have occurred that have dramatically driven down the population in the State’s prison system in the past 18 months. Mr R.F. Johnson: You let them out. Mr J.A. McGINTY: No. The first and most dramatic contributor was the opening of the new privatised Acacia Prison. Just over 700 people were taken out of the government prison system and placed in the new privatised prison. The second thing that occurred is that we consciously - and I might say with some pride - took action to take the minor offenders out of the prisons. At the moment we have legislation before the Parliament to abolish sentences of less than six months. The simple proposition is that, generally speaking, a person who gets a sentence of less than six months is not a serious criminal who poses a great threat to the community. If that were the case, that person should get a longer sentence than that. Therefore, 400 prisoners who were minor offenders and should not have been in prison in the first place were taken out of the prison population, and 700 prisoners went to the privatised prison. Effectively, the state prison population dropped by 33 per cent. Throughout the State we have now closed wings of prisons and two prisons - Pardelup Prison Farm and Riverbank Prison. We are now considering taking advantage of the - Ms S.E. Walker interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: Here comes the virago from Nedlands. As a result of those two things happening, we are now seeking to use the excess bed capacity that currently exists in the prison system to accommodate people from one prison. That will effect savings to the order of $3 million to $4 million a year. Consideration is being given to the four prisons that were mentioned by the member for Mitchell. The previous Government regarded it as a sign of its success that it was locking up more and more people. I regard it as a sign of its failure.
Mr J.L. Bradshaw: It shut down the Pinjarra courthouse, so it can do it very easily. Mr J.A. McGINTY: I thank the member for Murray-Wellington; there is the answer to the question. One of the areas of greatest neglect under the former Government was our prison system. When this Government came to power two years ago, it found a system that was literally bursting at the seams as a consequence of policies that resulted in an unprecedented number of Western Australian citizens locked up in jail, generally speaking for minor offences and often as minor as driving without a motor vehicle licence. Mr R.F. Johnson: There were hardly any of those. Mr J.A. McGINTY: Yes, there was a significant number of them. A very large number of people in Western Australian prisons would have been far more effectively punished in the community, as occurs in each of the other States. Members need only look at the statistics for Western Australia compared with each of the other States. The Australian average rate of imprisonment when Labor came to government was approximately 145 per 100 000 of population. The Western Australian figure was 220 per 100 000 of population. Therefore, this State was locking up people at a rate that was dramatically higher - not quite double - than the Australian average. Two things need to be said about imprisonment as a penalty. These comments refer particularly to minor offenders. The first is that it is the most expensive option available. It costs approximately $70 000 to keep one prisoner in jail for one year in Western Australia. The Government has a certain pool of money - this is true of Governments on either side of politics. The Government must choose whether it wants to spend that money locking up minor offenders in the most expensive way possible or whether it wants to have that money available to spend on hospitals and schools. It is a simple choice that is available. In fact, it is a rational economic choice that needs to be made in those areas. The second point I should make about imprisonment is that I do not think anyone has ever come out of prison a better person for the experience. Many people need to be locked up. All the serious offenders in this State deserve to be locked up and, as far as I am concerned, they should be dealt with harshly. Mr M.J. Birney: Will you take an interjection? Mr J.A. McGINTY: No, just let me answer the question first. People are far more likely to be criminalised as a result of spending time in prison. That is borne out by the fact that two-thirds of the people, after walking out of the prison gate, will re-offend within two years. Therefore, it cannot be said that prison has a salutary effect on people, leading them away from crime and into a life of righteousness, because two-thirds will re-offend. Forty-five per cent of people who are released from prison in this State end up back in prison for having committed a sufficiently serious offence - Several members interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: I will repeat that when members opposite are quiet. Forty-five per cent of all people who are released from prison are convicted and put back into prison within a two-year period for having committed a sufficiently serious offence. A term of imprisonment may well serve a valuable punitive role for the individuals who go into prison, but it does not serve a role in preventing people from committing offences. In fact, the argument in Western Australia is that putting minor offenders in jail exposes them to the hardened criminal elements and they are more likely to re-offend. During 1998 there was a dramatic response to the policies of the previous Government under which there was approximately a 40 per cent increase in that one year in the number of people who were imprisoned. Those members who were in the Cabinet of the previous Government know what pressures that put on the allocation of financial resources. In the five years prior to the state election in 2001, expenditure on prisons in Western Australia increased by a massive 75 per cent. Money was taken out of other areas such as education, hospitals and policing in order to lock up people. Western Australians are no more criminal than are people anywhere else in the country. Therefore, why is Western Australia locking up its citizens in disproportionate numbers? When people commit offences they should be punished. Any rational debate on this issue would point to the fact that it is better to deal with minor offenders, when there is no real threat to the community, by punishing them in the community and reserving prison for the most serious offenders. Two things have occurred that have dramatically driven down the population in the State’s prison system in the past 18 months. Mr R.F. Johnson: You let them out. Mr J.A. McGINTY: No. The first and most dramatic contributor was the opening of the new privatised Acacia Prison. Just over 700 people were taken out of the government prison system and placed in the new privatised prison. The second thing that occurred is that we consciously - and I might say with some pride - took action to take the minor offenders out of the prisons. At the moment we have legislation before the Parliament to abolish sentences of less than six months. The simple proposition is that, generally speaking, a person who gets a sentence of less than six months is not a serious criminal who poses a great threat to the community. If that were the case, that person should get a longer sentence than that. Therefore, 400 prisoners who were minor offenders and should not have been in prison in the first place were taken out of the prison population, and 700 prisoners went to the privatised prison. Effectively, the state prison population dropped by 33 per cent. Throughout the State we have now closed wings of prisons and two prisons - Pardelup Prison Farm and Riverbank Prison. We are now considering taking advantage of the - Ms S.E. Walker interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: Here comes the virago from Nedlands. As a result of those two things happening, we are now seeking to use the excess bed capacity that currently exists in the prison system to accommodate people from one prison. That will effect savings to the order of $3 million to $4 million a year. Consideration is being given to the four prisons that were mentioned by the member for Mitchell. The previous Government regarded it as a sign of its success that it was locking up more and more people. I regard it as a sign of its failure.
Mr J.A. McGINTY: I thank the member for Murray-Wellington; there is the answer to the question. One of the areas of greatest neglect under the former Government was our prison system. When this Government came to power two years ago, it found a system that was literally bursting at the seams as a consequence of policies that resulted in an unprecedented number of Western Australian citizens locked up in jail, generally speaking for minor offences and often as minor as driving without a motor vehicle licence. Mr R.F. Johnson: There were hardly any of those. Mr J.A. McGINTY: Yes, there was a significant number of them. A very large number of people in Western Australian prisons would have been far more effectively punished in the community, as occurs in each of the other States. Members need only look at the statistics for Western Australia compared with each of the other States. The Australian average rate of imprisonment when Labor came to government was approximately 145 per 100 000 of population. The Western Australian figure was 220 per 100 000 of population. Therefore, this State was locking up people at a rate that was dramatically higher - not quite double - than the Australian average. Two things need to be said about imprisonment as a penalty. These comments refer particularly to minor offenders. The first is that it is the most expensive option available. It costs approximately $70 000 to keep one prisoner in jail for one year in Western Australia. The Government has a certain pool of money - this is true of Governments on either side of politics. The Government must choose whether it wants to spend that money locking up minor offenders in the most expensive way possible or whether it wants to have that money available to spend on hospitals and schools. It is a simple choice that is available. In fact, it is a rational economic choice that needs to be made in those areas. The second point I should make about imprisonment is that I do not think anyone has ever come out of prison a better person for the experience. Many people need to be locked up. All the serious offenders in this State deserve to be locked up and, as far as I am concerned, they should be dealt with harshly. Mr M.J. Birney: Will you take an interjection? Mr J.A. McGINTY: No, just let me answer the question first. People are far more likely to be criminalised as a result of spending time in prison. That is borne out by the fact that two-thirds of the people, after walking out of the prison gate, will re-offend within two years. Therefore, it cannot be said that prison has a salutary effect on people, leading them away from crime and into a life of righteousness, because two-thirds will re-offend. Forty-five per cent of people who are released from prison in this State end up back in prison for having committed a sufficiently serious offence - Several members interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: I will repeat that when members opposite are quiet. Forty-five per cent of all people who are released from prison are convicted and put back into prison within a two-year period for having committed a sufficiently serious offence. A term of imprisonment may well serve a valuable punitive role for the individuals who go into prison, but it does not serve a role in preventing people from committing offences. In fact, the argument in Western Australia is that putting minor offenders in jail exposes them to the hardened criminal elements and they are more likely to re-offend. During 1998 there was a dramatic response to the policies of the previous Government under which there was approximately a 40 per cent increase in that one year in the number of people who were imprisoned. Those members who were in the Cabinet of the previous Government know what pressures that put on the allocation of financial resources. In the five years prior to the state election in 2001, expenditure on prisons in Western Australia increased by a massive 75 per cent. Money was taken out of other areas such as education, hospitals and policing in order to lock up people. Western Australians are no more criminal than are people anywhere else in the country. Therefore, why is Western Australia locking up its citizens in disproportionate numbers? When people commit offences they should be punished. Any rational debate on this issue would point to the fact that it is better to deal with minor offenders, when there is no real threat to the community, by punishing them in the community and reserving prison for the most serious offenders. Two things have occurred that have dramatically driven down the population in the State’s prison system in the past 18 months. Mr R.F. Johnson: You let them out. Mr J.A. McGINTY: No. The first and most dramatic contributor was the opening of the new privatised Acacia Prison. Just over 700 people were taken out of the government prison system and placed in the new privatised prison. The second thing that occurred is that we consciously - and I might say with some pride - took action to take the minor offenders out of the prisons. At the moment we have legislation before the Parliament to abolish sentences of less than six months. The simple proposition is that, generally speaking, a person who gets a sentence of less than six months is not a serious criminal who poses a great threat to the community. If that were the case, that person should get a longer sentence than that. Therefore, 400 prisoners who were minor offenders and should not have been in prison in the first place were taken out of the prison population, and 700 prisoners went to the privatised prison. Effectively, the state prison population dropped by 33 per cent. Throughout the State we have now closed wings of prisons and two prisons - Pardelup Prison Farm and Riverbank Prison. We are now considering taking advantage of the - Ms S.E. Walker interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: Here comes the virago from Nedlands. As a result of those two things happening, we are now seeking to use the excess bed capacity that currently exists in the prison system to accommodate people from one prison. That will effect savings to the order of $3 million to $4 million a year. Consideration is being given to the four prisons that were mentioned by the member for Mitchell. The previous Government regarded it as a sign of its success that it was locking up more and more people. I regard it as a sign of its failure.
One of the areas of greatest neglect under the former Government was our prison system. When this Government came to power two years ago, it found a system that was literally bursting at the seams as a consequence of policies that resulted in an unprecedented number of Western Australian citizens locked up in jail, generally speaking for minor offences and often as minor as driving without a motor vehicle licence. Mr R.F. Johnson: There were hardly any of those. Mr J.A. McGINTY: Yes, there was a significant number of them. A very large number of people in Western Australian prisons would have been far more effectively punished in the community, as occurs in each of the other States. Members need only look at the statistics for Western Australia compared with each of the other States. The Australian average rate of imprisonment when Labor came to government was approximately 145 per 100 000 of population. The Western Australian figure was 220 per 100 000 of population. Therefore, this State was locking up people at a rate that was dramatically higher - not quite double - than the Australian average. Two things need to be said about imprisonment as a penalty. These comments refer particularly to minor offenders. The first is that it is the most expensive option available. It costs approximately $70 000 to keep one prisoner in jail for one year in Western Australia. The Government has a certain pool of money - this is true of Governments on either side of politics. The Government must choose whether it wants to spend that money locking up minor offenders in the most expensive way possible or whether it wants to have that money available to spend on hospitals and schools. It is a simple choice that is available. In fact, it is a rational economic choice that needs to be made in those areas. The second point I should make about imprisonment is that I do not think anyone has ever come out of prison a better person for the experience. Many people need to be locked up. All the serious offenders in this State deserve to be locked up and, as far as I am concerned, they should be dealt with harshly. Mr M.J. Birney: Will you take an interjection? Mr J.A. McGINTY: No, just let me answer the question first. People are far more likely to be criminalised as a result of spending time in prison. That is borne out by the fact that two-thirds of the people, after walking out of the prison gate, will re-offend within two years. Therefore, it cannot be said that prison has a salutary effect on people, leading them away from crime and into a life of righteousness, because two-thirds will re-offend. Forty-five per cent of people who are released from prison in this State end up back in prison for having committed a sufficiently serious offence - Several members interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: I will repeat that when members opposite are quiet. Forty-five per cent of all people who are released from prison are convicted and put back into prison within a two-year period for having committed a sufficiently serious offence. A term of imprisonment may well serve a valuable punitive role for the individuals who go into prison, but it does not serve a role in preventing people from committing offences. In fact, the argument in Western Australia is that putting minor offenders in jail exposes them to the hardened criminal elements and they are more likely to re-offend. During 1998 there was a dramatic response to the policies of the previous Government under which there was approximately a 40 per cent increase in that one year in the number of people who were imprisoned. Those members who were in the Cabinet of the previous Government know what pressures that put on the allocation of financial resources. In the five years prior to the state election in 2001, expenditure on prisons in Western Australia increased by a massive 75 per cent. Money was taken out of other areas such as education, hospitals and policing in order to lock up people. Western Australians are no more criminal than are people anywhere else in the country. Therefore, why is Western Australia locking up its citizens in disproportionate numbers? When people commit offences they should be punished. Any rational debate on this issue would point to the fact that it is better to deal with minor offenders, when there is no real threat to the community, by punishing them in the community and reserving prison for the most serious offenders. Two things have occurred that have dramatically driven down the population in the State’s prison system in the past 18 months. Mr R.F. Johnson: You let them out. Mr J.A. McGINTY: No. The first and most dramatic contributor was the opening of the new privatised Acacia Prison. Just over 700 people were taken out of the government prison system and placed in the new privatised prison. The second thing that occurred is that we consciously - and I might say with some pride - took action to take the minor offenders out of the prisons. At the moment we have legislation before the Parliament to abolish sentences of less than six months. The simple proposition is that, generally speaking, a person who gets a sentence of less than six months is not a serious criminal who poses a great threat to the community. If that were the case, that person should get a longer sentence than that. Therefore, 400 prisoners who were minor offenders and should not have been in prison in the first place were taken out of the prison population, and 700 prisoners went to the privatised prison. Effectively, the state prison population dropped by 33 per cent. Throughout the State we have now closed wings of prisons and two prisons - Pardelup Prison Farm and Riverbank Prison. We are now considering taking advantage of the - Ms S.E. Walker interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: Here comes the virago from Nedlands. As a result of those two things happening, we are now seeking to use the excess bed capacity that currently exists in the prison system to accommodate people from one prison. That will effect savings to the order of $3 million to $4 million a year. Consideration is being given to the four prisons that were mentioned by the member for Mitchell. The previous Government regarded it as a sign of its success that it was locking up more and more people. I regard it as a sign of its failure.
Mr R.F. Johnson: There were hardly any of those. Mr J.A. McGINTY: Yes, there was a significant number of them. A very large number of people in Western Australian prisons would have been far more effectively punished in the community, as occurs in each of the other States. Members need only look at the statistics for Western Australia compared with each of the other States. The Australian average rate of imprisonment when Labor came to government was approximately 145 per 100 000 of population. The Western Australian figure was 220 per 100 000 of population. Therefore, this State was locking up people at a rate that was dramatically higher - not quite double - than the Australian average. Two things need to be said about imprisonment as a penalty. These comments refer particularly to minor offenders. The first is that it is the most expensive option available. It costs approximately $70 000 to keep one prisoner in jail for one year in Western Australia. The Government has a certain pool of money - this is true of Governments on either side of politics. The Government must choose whether it wants to spend that money locking up minor offenders in the most expensive way possible or whether it wants to have that money available to spend on hospitals and schools. It is a simple choice that is available. In fact, it is a rational economic choice that needs to be made in those areas. The second point I should make about imprisonment is that I do not think anyone has ever come out of prison a better person for the experience. Many people need to be locked up. All the serious offenders in this State deserve to be locked up and, as far as I am concerned, they should be dealt with harshly. Mr M.J. Birney: Will you take an interjection? Mr J.A. McGINTY: No, just let me answer the question first. People are far more likely to be criminalised as a result of spending time in prison. That is borne out by the fact that two-thirds of the people, after walking out of the prison gate, will re-offend within two years. Therefore, it cannot be said that prison has a salutary effect on people, leading them away from crime and into a life of righteousness, because two-thirds will re-offend. Forty-five per cent of people who are released from prison in this State end up back in prison for having committed a sufficiently serious offence - Several members interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: I will repeat that when members opposite are quiet. Forty-five per cent of all people who are released from prison are convicted and put back into prison within a two-year period for having committed a sufficiently serious offence. A term of imprisonment may well serve a valuable punitive role for the individuals who go into prison, but it does not serve a role in preventing people from committing offences. In fact, the argument in Western Australia is that putting minor offenders in jail exposes them to the hardened criminal elements and they are more likely to re-offend. During 1998 there was a dramatic response to the policies of the previous Government under which there was approximately a 40 per cent increase in that one year in the number of people who were imprisoned. Those members who were in the Cabinet of the previous Government know what pressures that put on the allocation of financial resources. In the five years prior to the state election in 2001, expenditure on prisons in Western Australia increased by a massive 75 per cent. Money was taken out of other areas such as education, hospitals and policing in order to lock up people. Western Australians are no more criminal than are people anywhere else in the country. Therefore, why is Western Australia locking up its citizens in disproportionate numbers? When people commit offences they should be punished. Any rational debate on this issue would point to the fact that it is better to deal with minor offenders, when there is no real threat to the community, by punishing them in the community and reserving prison for the most serious offenders. Two things have occurred that have dramatically driven down the population in the State’s prison system in the past 18 months. Mr R.F. Johnson: You let them out. Mr J.A. McGINTY: No. The first and most dramatic contributor was the opening of the new privatised Acacia Prison. Just over 700 people were taken out of the government prison system and placed in the new privatised prison. The second thing that occurred is that we consciously - and I might say with some pride - took action to take the minor offenders out of the prisons. At the moment we have legislation before the Parliament to abolish sentences of less than six months. The simple proposition is that, generally speaking, a person who gets a sentence of less than six months is not a serious criminal who poses a great threat to the community. If that were the case, that person should get a longer sentence than that. Therefore, 400 prisoners who were minor offenders and should not have been in prison in the first place were taken out of the prison population, and 700 prisoners went to the privatised prison. Effectively, the state prison population dropped by 33 per cent. Throughout the State we have now closed wings of prisons and two prisons - Pardelup Prison Farm and Riverbank Prison. We are now considering taking advantage of the - Ms S.E. Walker interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: Here comes the virago from Nedlands. As a result of those two things happening, we are now seeking to use the excess bed capacity that currently exists in the prison system to accommodate people from one prison. That will effect savings to the order of $3 million to $4 million a year. Consideration is being given to the four prisons that were mentioned by the member for Mitchell. The previous Government regarded it as a sign of its success that it was locking up more and more people. I regard it as a sign of its failure.
Mr J.A. McGINTY: Yes, there was a significant number of them. A very large number of people in Western Australian prisons would have been far more effectively punished in the community, as occurs in each of the other States. Members need only look at the statistics for Western Australia compared with each of the other States. The Australian average rate of imprisonment when Labor came to government was approximately 145 per 100 000 of population. The Western Australian figure was 220 per 100 000 of population. Therefore, this State was locking up people at a rate that was dramatically higher - not quite double - than the Australian average. Two things need to be said about imprisonment as a penalty. These comments refer particularly to minor offenders. The first is that it is the most expensive option available. It costs approximately $70 000 to keep one prisoner in jail for one year in Western Australia. The Government has a certain pool of money - this is true of Governments on either side of politics. The Government must choose whether it wants to spend that money locking up minor offenders in the most expensive way possible or whether it wants to have that money available to spend on hospitals and schools. It is a simple choice that is available. In fact, it is a rational economic choice that needs to be made in those areas. The second point I should make about imprisonment is that I do not think anyone has ever come out of prison a better person for the experience. Many people need to be locked up. All the serious offenders in this State deserve to be locked up and, as far as I am concerned, they should be dealt with harshly. Mr M.J. Birney: Will you take an interjection? Mr J.A. McGINTY: No, just let me answer the question first. People are far more likely to be criminalised as a result of spending time in prison. That is borne out by the fact that two-thirds of the people, after walking out of the prison gate, will re-offend within two years. Therefore, it cannot be said that prison has a salutary effect on people, leading them away from crime and into a life of righteousness, because two-thirds will re-offend. Forty-five per cent of people who are released from prison in this State end up back in prison for having committed a sufficiently serious offence - Several members interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: I will repeat that when members opposite are quiet. Forty-five per cent of all people who are released from prison are convicted and put back into prison within a two-year period for having committed a sufficiently serious offence. A term of imprisonment may well serve a valuable punitive role for the individuals who go into prison, but it does not serve a role in preventing people from committing offences. In fact, the argument in Western Australia is that putting minor offenders in jail exposes them to the hardened criminal elements and they are more likely to re-offend. During 1998 there was a dramatic response to the policies of the previous Government under which there was approximately a 40 per cent increase in that one year in the number of people who were imprisoned. Those members who were in the Cabinet of the previous Government know what pressures that put on the allocation of financial resources. In the five years prior to the state election in 2001, expenditure on prisons in Western Australia increased by a massive 75 per cent. Money was taken out of other areas such as education, hospitals and policing in order to lock up people. Western Australians are no more criminal than are people anywhere else in the country. Therefore, why is Western Australia locking up its citizens in disproportionate numbers? When people commit offences they should be punished. Any rational debate on this issue would point to the fact that it is better to deal with minor offenders, when there is no real threat to the community, by punishing them in the community and reserving prison for the most serious offenders. Two things have occurred that have dramatically driven down the population in the State’s prison system in the past 18 months. Mr R.F. Johnson: You let them out. Mr J.A. McGINTY: No. The first and most dramatic contributor was the opening of the new privatised Acacia Prison. Just over 700 people were taken out of the government prison system and placed in the new privatised prison. The second thing that occurred is that we consciously - and I might say with some pride - took action to take the minor offenders out of the prisons. At the moment we have legislation before the Parliament to abolish sentences of less than six months. The simple proposition is that, generally speaking, a person who gets a sentence of less than six months is not a serious criminal who poses a great threat to the community. If that were the case, that person should get a longer sentence than that. Therefore, 400 prisoners who were minor offenders and should not have been in prison in the first place were taken out of the prison population, and 700 prisoners went to the privatised prison. Effectively, the state prison population dropped by 33 per cent. Throughout the State we have now closed wings of prisons and two prisons - Pardelup Prison Farm and Riverbank Prison. We are now considering taking advantage of the - Ms S.E. Walker interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: Here comes the virago from Nedlands. As a result of those two things happening, we are now seeking to use the excess bed capacity that currently exists in the prison system to accommodate people from one prison. That will effect savings to the order of $3 million to $4 million a year. Consideration is being given to the four prisons that were mentioned by the member for Mitchell. The previous Government regarded it as a sign of its success that it was locking up more and more people. I regard it as a sign of its failure.
A very large number of people in Western Australian prisons would have been far more effectively punished in the community, as occurs in each of the other States. Members need only look at the statistics for Western Australia compared with each of the other States. The Australian average rate of imprisonment when Labor came to government was approximately 145 per 100 000 of population. The Western Australian figure was 220 per 100 000 of population. Therefore, this State was locking up people at a rate that was dramatically higher - not quite double - than the Australian average. Two things need to be said about imprisonment as a penalty. These comments refer particularly to minor offenders. The first is that it is the most expensive option available. It costs approximately $70 000 to keep one prisoner in jail for one year in Western Australia. The Government has a certain pool of money - this is true of Governments on either side of politics. The Government must choose whether it wants to spend that money locking up minor offenders in the most expensive way possible or whether it wants to have that money available to spend on hospitals and schools. It is a simple choice that is available. In fact, it is a rational economic choice that needs to be made in those areas. The second point I should make about imprisonment is that I do not think anyone has ever come out of prison a better person for the experience. Many people need to be locked up. All the serious offenders in this State deserve to be locked up and, as far as I am concerned, they should be dealt with harshly. Mr M.J. Birney: Will you take an interjection? Mr J.A. McGINTY: No, just let me answer the question first. People are far more likely to be criminalised as a result of spending time in prison. That is borne out by the fact that two-thirds of the people, after walking out of the prison gate, will re-offend within two years. Therefore, it cannot be said that prison has a salutary effect on people, leading them away from crime and into a life of righteousness, because two-thirds will re-offend. Forty-five per cent of people who are released from prison in this State end up back in prison for having committed a sufficiently serious offence - Several members interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: I will repeat that when members opposite are quiet. Forty-five per cent of all people who are released from prison are convicted and put back into prison within a two-year period for having committed a sufficiently serious offence. A term of imprisonment may well serve a valuable punitive role for the individuals who go into prison, but it does not serve a role in preventing people from committing offences. In fact, the argument in Western Australia is that putting minor offenders in jail exposes them to the hardened criminal elements and they are more likely to re-offend. During 1998 there was a dramatic response to the policies of the previous Government under which there was approximately a 40 per cent increase in that one year in the number of people who were imprisoned. Those members who were in the Cabinet of the previous Government know what pressures that put on the allocation of financial resources. In the five years prior to the state election in 2001, expenditure on prisons in Western Australia increased by a massive 75 per cent. Money was taken out of other areas such as education, hospitals and policing in order to lock up people. Western Australians are no more criminal than are people anywhere else in the country. Therefore, why is Western Australia locking up its citizens in disproportionate numbers? When people commit offences they should be punished. Any rational debate on this issue would point to the fact that it is better to deal with minor offenders, when there is no real threat to the community, by punishing them in the community and reserving prison for the most serious offenders. Two things have occurred that have dramatically driven down the population in the State’s prison system in the past 18 months. Mr R.F. Johnson: You let them out. Mr J.A. McGINTY: No. The first and most dramatic contributor was the opening of the new privatised Acacia Prison. Just over 700 people were taken out of the government prison system and placed in the new privatised prison. The second thing that occurred is that we consciously - and I might say with some pride - took action to take the minor offenders out of the prisons. At the moment we have legislation before the Parliament to abolish sentences of less than six months. The simple proposition is that, generally speaking, a person who gets a sentence of less than six months is not a serious criminal who poses a great threat to the community. If that were the case, that person should get a longer sentence than that. Therefore, 400 prisoners who were minor offenders and should not have been in prison in the first place were taken out of the prison population, and 700 prisoners went to the privatised prison. Effectively, the state prison population dropped by 33 per cent. Throughout the State we have now closed wings of prisons and two prisons - Pardelup Prison Farm and Riverbank Prison. We are now considering taking advantage of the - Ms S.E. Walker interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: Here comes the virago from Nedlands. As a result of those two things happening, we are now seeking to use the excess bed capacity that currently exists in the prison system to accommodate people from one prison. That will effect savings to the order of $3 million to $4 million a year. Consideration is being given to the four prisons that were mentioned by the member for Mitchell. The previous Government regarded it as a sign of its success that it was locking up more and more people. I regard it as a sign of its failure.
Two things need to be said about imprisonment as a penalty. These comments refer particularly to minor offenders. The first is that it is the most expensive option available. It costs approximately $70 000 to keep one prisoner in jail for one year in Western Australia. The Government has a certain pool of money - this is true of Governments on either side of politics. The Government must choose whether it wants to spend that money locking up minor offenders in the most expensive way possible or whether it wants to have that money available to spend on hospitals and schools. It is a simple choice that is available. In fact, it is a rational economic choice that needs to be made in those areas. The second point I should make about imprisonment is that I do not think anyone has ever come out of prison a better person for the experience. Many people need to be locked up. All the serious offenders in this State deserve to be locked up and, as far as I am concerned, they should be dealt with harshly. Mr M.J. Birney: Will you take an interjection? Mr J.A. McGINTY: No, just let me answer the question first. People are far more likely to be criminalised as a result of spending time in prison. That is borne out by the fact that two-thirds of the people, after walking out of the prison gate, will re-offend within two years. Therefore, it cannot be said that prison has a salutary effect on people, leading them away from crime and into a life of righteousness, because two-thirds will re-offend. Forty-five per cent of people who are released from prison in this State end up back in prison for having committed a sufficiently serious offence - Several members interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: I will repeat that when members opposite are quiet. Forty-five per cent of all people who are released from prison are convicted and put back into prison within a two-year period for having committed a sufficiently serious offence. A term of imprisonment may well serve a valuable punitive role for the individuals who go into prison, but it does not serve a role in preventing people from committing offences. In fact, the argument in Western Australia is that putting minor offenders in jail exposes them to the hardened criminal elements and they are more likely to re-offend. During 1998 there was a dramatic response to the policies of the previous Government under which there was approximately a 40 per cent increase in that one year in the number of people who were imprisoned. Those members who were in the Cabinet of the previous Government know what pressures that put on the allocation of financial resources. In the five years prior to the state election in 2001, expenditure on prisons in Western Australia increased by a massive 75 per cent. Money was taken out of other areas such as education, hospitals and policing in order to lock up people. Western Australians are no more criminal than are people anywhere else in the country. Therefore, why is Western Australia locking up its citizens in disproportionate numbers? When people commit offences they should be punished. Any rational debate on this issue would point to the fact that it is better to deal with minor offenders, when there is no real threat to the community, by punishing them in the community and reserving prison for the most serious offenders. Two things have occurred that have dramatically driven down the population in the State’s prison system in the past 18 months. Mr R.F. Johnson: You let them out. Mr J.A. McGINTY: No. The first and most dramatic contributor was the opening of the new privatised Acacia Prison. Just over 700 people were taken out of the government prison system and placed in the new privatised prison. The second thing that occurred is that we consciously - and I might say with some pride - took action to take the minor offenders out of the prisons. At the moment we have legislation before the Parliament to abolish sentences of less than six months. The simple proposition is that, generally speaking, a person who gets a sentence of less than six months is not a serious criminal who poses a great threat to the community. If that were the case, that person should get a longer sentence than that. Therefore, 400 prisoners who were minor offenders and should not have been in prison in the first place were taken out of the prison population, and 700 prisoners went to the privatised prison. Effectively, the state prison population dropped by 33 per cent. Throughout the State we have now closed wings of prisons and two prisons - Pardelup Prison Farm and Riverbank Prison. We are now considering taking advantage of the - Ms S.E. Walker interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: Here comes the virago from Nedlands. As a result of those two things happening, we are now seeking to use the excess bed capacity that currently exists in the prison system to accommodate people from one prison. That will effect savings to the order of $3 million to $4 million a year. Consideration is being given to the four prisons that were mentioned by the member for Mitchell. The previous Government regarded it as a sign of its success that it was locking up more and more people. I regard it as a sign of its failure.
Mr M.J. Birney: Will you take an interjection? Mr J.A. McGINTY: No, just let me answer the question first. People are far more likely to be criminalised as a result of spending time in prison. That is borne out by the fact that two-thirds of the people, after walking out of the prison gate, will re-offend within two years. Therefore, it cannot be said that prison has a salutary effect on people, leading them away from crime and into a life of righteousness, because two-thirds will re-offend. Forty-five per cent of people who are released from prison in this State end up back in prison for having committed a sufficiently serious offence - Several members interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: I will repeat that when members opposite are quiet. Forty-five per cent of all people who are released from prison are convicted and put back into prison within a two-year period for having committed a sufficiently serious offence. A term of imprisonment may well serve a valuable punitive role for the individuals who go into prison, but it does not serve a role in preventing people from committing offences. In fact, the argument in Western Australia is that putting minor offenders in jail exposes them to the hardened criminal elements and they are more likely to re-offend. During 1998 there was a dramatic response to the policies of the previous Government under which there was approximately a 40 per cent increase in that one year in the number of people who were imprisoned. Those members who were in the Cabinet of the previous Government know what pressures that put on the allocation of financial resources. In the five years prior to the state election in 2001, expenditure on prisons in Western Australia increased by a massive 75 per cent. Money was taken out of other areas such as education, hospitals and policing in order to lock up people. Western Australians are no more criminal than are people anywhere else in the country. Therefore, why is Western Australia locking up its citizens in disproportionate numbers? When people commit offences they should be punished. Any rational debate on this issue would point to the fact that it is better to deal with minor offenders, when there is no real threat to the community, by punishing them in the community and reserving prison for the most serious offenders. Two things have occurred that have dramatically driven down the population in the State’s prison system in the past 18 months. Mr R.F. Johnson: You let them out. Mr J.A. McGINTY: No. The first and most dramatic contributor was the opening of the new privatised Acacia Prison. Just over 700 people were taken out of the government prison system and placed in the new privatised prison. The second thing that occurred is that we consciously - and I might say with some pride - took action to take the minor offenders out of the prisons. At the moment we have legislation before the Parliament to abolish sentences of less than six months. The simple proposition is that, generally speaking, a person who gets a sentence of less than six months is not a serious criminal who poses a great threat to the community. If that were the case, that person should get a longer sentence than that. Therefore, 400 prisoners who were minor offenders and should not have been in prison in the first place were taken out of the prison population, and 700 prisoners went to the privatised prison. Effectively, the state prison population dropped by 33 per cent. Throughout the State we have now closed wings of prisons and two prisons - Pardelup Prison Farm and Riverbank Prison. We are now considering taking advantage of the - Ms S.E. Walker interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: Here comes the virago from Nedlands. As a result of those two things happening, we are now seeking to use the excess bed capacity that currently exists in the prison system to accommodate people from one prison. That will effect savings to the order of $3 million to $4 million a year. Consideration is being given to the four prisons that were mentioned by the member for Mitchell. The previous Government regarded it as a sign of its success that it was locking up more and more people. I regard it as a sign of its failure.
Mr J.A. McGINTY: No, just let me answer the question first. People are far more likely to be criminalised as a result of spending time in prison. That is borne out by the fact that two-thirds of the people, after walking out of the prison gate, will re-offend within two years. Therefore, it cannot be said that prison has a salutary effect on people, leading them away from crime and into a life of righteousness, because two-thirds will re-offend. Forty-five per cent of people who are released from prison in this State end up back in prison for having committed a sufficiently serious offence - Several members interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: I will repeat that when members opposite are quiet. Forty-five per cent of all people who are released from prison are convicted and put back into prison within a two-year period for having committed a sufficiently serious offence. A term of imprisonment may well serve a valuable punitive role for the individuals who go into prison, but it does not serve a role in preventing people from committing offences. In fact, the argument in Western Australia is that putting minor offenders in jail exposes them to the hardened criminal elements and they are more likely to re-offend. During 1998 there was a dramatic response to the policies of the previous Government under which there was approximately a 40 per cent increase in that one year in the number of people who were imprisoned. Those members who were in the Cabinet of the previous Government know what pressures that put on the allocation of financial resources. In the five years prior to the state election in 2001, expenditure on prisons in Western Australia increased by a massive 75 per cent. Money was taken out of other areas such as education, hospitals and policing in order to lock up people. Western Australians are no more criminal than are people anywhere else in the country. Therefore, why is Western Australia locking up its citizens in disproportionate numbers? When people commit offences they should be punished. Any rational debate on this issue would point to the fact that it is better to deal with minor offenders, when there is no real threat to the community, by punishing them in the community and reserving prison for the most serious offenders. Two things have occurred that have dramatically driven down the population in the State’s prison system in the past 18 months. Mr R.F. Johnson: You let them out. Mr J.A. McGINTY: No. The first and most dramatic contributor was the opening of the new privatised Acacia Prison. Just over 700 people were taken out of the government prison system and placed in the new privatised prison. The second thing that occurred is that we consciously - and I might say with some pride - took action to take the minor offenders out of the prisons. At the moment we have legislation before the Parliament to abolish sentences of less than six months. The simple proposition is that, generally speaking, a person who gets a sentence of less than six months is not a serious criminal who poses a great threat to the community. If that were the case, that person should get a longer sentence than that. Therefore, 400 prisoners who were minor offenders and should not have been in prison in the first place were taken out of the prison population, and 700 prisoners went to the privatised prison. Effectively, the state prison population dropped by 33 per cent. Throughout the State we have now closed wings of prisons and two prisons - Pardelup Prison Farm and Riverbank Prison. We are now considering taking advantage of the - Ms S.E. Walker interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: Here comes the virago from Nedlands. As a result of those two things happening, we are now seeking to use the excess bed capacity that currently exists in the prison system to accommodate people from one prison. That will effect savings to the order of $3 million to $4 million a year. Consideration is being given to the four prisons that were mentioned by the member for Mitchell. The previous Government regarded it as a sign of its success that it was locking up more and more people. I regard it as a sign of its failure.
Several members interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: I will repeat that when members opposite are quiet. Forty-five per cent of all people who are released from prison are convicted and put back into prison within a two-year period for having committed a sufficiently serious offence. A term of imprisonment may well serve a valuable punitive role for the individuals who go into prison, but it does not serve a role in preventing people from committing offences. In fact, the argument in Western Australia is that putting minor offenders in jail exposes them to the hardened criminal elements and they are more likely to re-offend. During 1998 there was a dramatic response to the policies of the previous Government under which there was approximately a 40 per cent increase in that one year in the number of people who were imprisoned. Those members who were in the Cabinet of the previous Government know what pressures that put on the allocation of financial resources. In the five years prior to the state election in 2001, expenditure on prisons in Western Australia increased by a massive 75 per cent. Money was taken out of other areas such as education, hospitals and policing in order to lock up people. Western Australians are no more criminal than are people anywhere else in the country. Therefore, why is Western Australia locking up its citizens in disproportionate numbers? When people commit offences they should be punished. Any rational debate on this issue would point to the fact that it is better to deal with minor offenders, when there is no real threat to the community, by punishing them in the community and reserving prison for the most serious offenders. Two things have occurred that have dramatically driven down the population in the State’s prison system in the past 18 months. Mr R.F. Johnson: You let them out. Mr J.A. McGINTY: No. The first and most dramatic contributor was the opening of the new privatised Acacia Prison. Just over 700 people were taken out of the government prison system and placed in the new privatised prison. The second thing that occurred is that we consciously - and I might say with some pride - took action to take the minor offenders out of the prisons. At the moment we have legislation before the Parliament to abolish sentences of less than six months. The simple proposition is that, generally speaking, a person who gets a sentence of less than six months is not a serious criminal who poses a great threat to the community. If that were the case, that person should get a longer sentence than that. Therefore, 400 prisoners who were minor offenders and should not have been in prison in the first place were taken out of the prison population, and 700 prisoners went to the privatised prison. Effectively, the state prison population dropped by 33 per cent. Throughout the State we have now closed wings of prisons and two prisons - Pardelup Prison Farm and Riverbank Prison. We are now considering taking advantage of the - Ms S.E. Walker interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: Here comes the virago from Nedlands. As a result of those two things happening, we are now seeking to use the excess bed capacity that currently exists in the prison system to accommodate people from one prison. That will effect savings to the order of $3 million to $4 million a year. Consideration is being given to the four prisons that were mentioned by the member for Mitchell. The previous Government regarded it as a sign of its success that it was locking up more and more people. I regard it as a sign of its failure.
Mr J.A. McGINTY: I will repeat that when members opposite are quiet. Forty-five per cent of all people who are released from prison are convicted and put back into prison within a two-year period for having committed a sufficiently serious offence. A term of imprisonment may well serve a valuable punitive role for the individuals who go into prison, but it does not serve a role in preventing people from committing offences. In fact, the argument in Western Australia is that putting minor offenders in jail exposes them to the hardened criminal elements and they are more likely to re-offend. During 1998 there was a dramatic response to the policies of the previous Government under which there was approximately a 40 per cent increase in that one year in the number of people who were imprisoned. Those members who were in the Cabinet of the previous Government know what pressures that put on the allocation of financial resources. In the five years prior to the state election in 2001, expenditure on prisons in Western Australia increased by a massive 75 per cent. Money was taken out of other areas such as education, hospitals and policing in order to lock up people. Western Australians are no more criminal than are people anywhere else in the country. Therefore, why is Western Australia locking up its citizens in disproportionate numbers? When people commit offences they should be punished. Any rational debate on this issue would point to the fact that it is better to deal with minor offenders, when there is no real threat to the community, by punishing them in the community and reserving prison for the most serious offenders. Two things have occurred that have dramatically driven down the population in the State’s prison system in the past 18 months. Mr R.F. Johnson: You let them out. Mr J.A. McGINTY: No. The first and most dramatic contributor was the opening of the new privatised Acacia Prison. Just over 700 people were taken out of the government prison system and placed in the new privatised prison. The second thing that occurred is that we consciously - and I might say with some pride - took action to take the minor offenders out of the prisons. At the moment we have legislation before the Parliament to abolish sentences of less than six months. The simple proposition is that, generally speaking, a person who gets a sentence of less than six months is not a serious criminal who poses a great threat to the community. If that were the case, that person should get a longer sentence than that. Therefore, 400 prisoners who were minor offenders and should not have been in prison in the first place were taken out of the prison population, and 700 prisoners went to the privatised prison. Effectively, the state prison population dropped by 33 per cent. Throughout the State we have now closed wings of prisons and two prisons - Pardelup Prison Farm and Riverbank Prison. We are now considering taking advantage of the - Ms S.E. Walker interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: Here comes the virago from Nedlands. As a result of those two things happening, we are now seeking to use the excess bed capacity that currently exists in the prison system to accommodate people from one prison. That will effect savings to the order of $3 million to $4 million a year. Consideration is being given to the four prisons that were mentioned by the member for Mitchell. The previous Government regarded it as a sign of its success that it was locking up more and more people. I regard it as a sign of its failure.
During 1998 there was a dramatic response to the policies of the previous Government under which there was approximately a 40 per cent increase in that one year in the number of people who were imprisoned. Those members who were in the Cabinet of the previous Government know what pressures that put on the allocation of financial resources. In the five years prior to the state election in 2001, expenditure on prisons in Western Australia increased by a massive 75 per cent. Money was taken out of other areas such as education, hospitals and policing in order to lock up people. Western Australians are no more criminal than are people anywhere else in the country. Therefore, why is Western Australia locking up its citizens in disproportionate numbers? When people commit offences they should be punished. Any rational debate on this issue would point to the fact that it is better to deal with minor offenders, when there is no real threat to the community, by punishing them in the community and reserving prison for the most serious offenders. Two things have occurred that have dramatically driven down the population in the State’s prison system in the past 18 months. Mr R.F. Johnson: You let them out. Mr J.A. McGINTY: No. The first and most dramatic contributor was the opening of the new privatised Acacia Prison. Just over 700 people were taken out of the government prison system and placed in the new privatised prison. The second thing that occurred is that we consciously - and I might say with some pride - took action to take the minor offenders out of the prisons. At the moment we have legislation before the Parliament to abolish sentences of less than six months. The simple proposition is that, generally speaking, a person who gets a sentence of less than six months is not a serious criminal who poses a great threat to the community. If that were the case, that person should get a longer sentence than that. Therefore, 400 prisoners who were minor offenders and should not have been in prison in the first place were taken out of the prison population, and 700 prisoners went to the privatised prison. Effectively, the state prison population dropped by 33 per cent. Throughout the State we have now closed wings of prisons and two prisons - Pardelup Prison Farm and Riverbank Prison. We are now considering taking advantage of the - Ms S.E. Walker interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: Here comes the virago from Nedlands. As a result of those two things happening, we are now seeking to use the excess bed capacity that currently exists in the prison system to accommodate people from one prison. That will effect savings to the order of $3 million to $4 million a year. Consideration is being given to the four prisons that were mentioned by the member for Mitchell. The previous Government regarded it as a sign of its success that it was locking up more and more people. I regard it as a sign of its failure.
Western Australians are no more criminal than are people anywhere else in the country. Therefore, why is Western Australia locking up its citizens in disproportionate numbers? When people commit offences they should be punished. Any rational debate on this issue would point to the fact that it is better to deal with minor offenders, when there is no real threat to the community, by punishing them in the community and reserving prison for the most serious offenders. Two things have occurred that have dramatically driven down the population in the State’s prison system in the past 18 months. Mr R.F. Johnson: You let them out. Mr J.A. McGINTY: No. The first and most dramatic contributor was the opening of the new privatised Acacia Prison. Just over 700 people were taken out of the government prison system and placed in the new privatised prison. The second thing that occurred is that we consciously - and I might say with some pride - took action to take the minor offenders out of the prisons. At the moment we have legislation before the Parliament to abolish sentences of less than six months. The simple proposition is that, generally speaking, a person who gets a sentence of less than six months is not a serious criminal who poses a great threat to the community. If that were the case, that person should get a longer sentence than that. Therefore, 400 prisoners who were minor offenders and should not have been in prison in the first place were taken out of the prison population, and 700 prisoners went to the privatised prison. Effectively, the state prison population dropped by 33 per cent. Throughout the State we have now closed wings of prisons and two prisons - Pardelup Prison Farm and Riverbank Prison. We are now considering taking advantage of the - Ms S.E. Walker interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: Here comes the virago from Nedlands. As a result of those two things happening, we are now seeking to use the excess bed capacity that currently exists in the prison system to accommodate people from one prison. That will effect savings to the order of $3 million to $4 million a year. Consideration is being given to the four prisons that were mentioned by the member for Mitchell. The previous Government regarded it as a sign of its success that it was locking up more and more people. I regard it as a sign of its failure.
Two things have occurred that have dramatically driven down the population in the State’s prison system in the past 18 months. Mr R.F. Johnson: You let them out. Mr J.A. McGINTY: No. The first and most dramatic contributor was the opening of the new privatised Acacia Prison. Just over 700 people were taken out of the government prison system and placed in the new privatised prison. The second thing that occurred is that we consciously - and I might say with some pride - took action to take the minor offenders out of the prisons. At the moment we have legislation before the Parliament to abolish sentences of less than six months. The simple proposition is that, generally speaking, a person who gets a sentence of less than six months is not a serious criminal who poses a great threat to the community. If that were the case, that person should get a longer sentence than that. Therefore, 400 prisoners who were minor offenders and should not have been in prison in the first place were taken out of the prison population, and 700 prisoners went to the privatised prison. Effectively, the state prison population dropped by 33 per cent. Throughout the State we have now closed wings of prisons and two prisons - Pardelup Prison Farm and Riverbank Prison. We are now considering taking advantage of the - Ms S.E. Walker interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: Here comes the virago from Nedlands. As a result of those two things happening, we are now seeking to use the excess bed capacity that currently exists in the prison system to accommodate people from one prison. That will effect savings to the order of $3 million to $4 million a year. Consideration is being given to the four prisons that were mentioned by the member for Mitchell. The previous Government regarded it as a sign of its success that it was locking up more and more people. I regard it as a sign of its failure.
Mr R.F. Johnson: You let them out. Mr J.A. McGINTY: No. The first and most dramatic contributor was the opening of the new privatised Acacia Prison. Just over 700 people were taken out of the government prison system and placed in the new privatised prison. The second thing that occurred is that we consciously - and I might say with some pride - took action to take the minor offenders out of the prisons. At the moment we have legislation before the Parliament to abolish sentences of less than six months. The simple proposition is that, generally speaking, a person who gets a sentence of less than six months is not a serious criminal who poses a great threat to the community. If that were the case, that person should get a longer sentence than that. Therefore, 400 prisoners who were minor offenders and should not have been in prison in the first place were taken out of the prison population, and 700 prisoners went to the privatised prison. Effectively, the state prison population dropped by 33 per cent. Throughout the State we have now closed wings of prisons and two prisons - Pardelup Prison Farm and Riverbank Prison. We are now considering taking advantage of the - Ms S.E. Walker interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: Here comes the virago from Nedlands. As a result of those two things happening, we are now seeking to use the excess bed capacity that currently exists in the prison system to accommodate people from one prison. That will effect savings to the order of $3 million to $4 million a year. Consideration is being given to the four prisons that were mentioned by the member for Mitchell. The previous Government regarded it as a sign of its success that it was locking up more and more people. I regard it as a sign of its failure.
Mr J.A. McGINTY: No. The first and most dramatic contributor was the opening of the new privatised Acacia Prison. Just over 700 people were taken out of the government prison system and placed in the new privatised prison. The second thing that occurred is that we consciously - and I might say with some pride - took action to take the minor offenders out of the prisons. At the moment we have legislation before the Parliament to abolish sentences of less than six months. The simple proposition is that, generally speaking, a person who gets a sentence of less than six months is not a serious criminal who poses a great threat to the community. If that were the case, that person should get a longer sentence than that. Therefore, 400 prisoners who were minor offenders and should not have been in prison in the first place were taken out of the prison population, and 700 prisoners went to the privatised prison. Effectively, the state prison population dropped by 33 per cent. Throughout the State we have now closed wings of prisons and two prisons - Pardelup Prison Farm and Riverbank Prison. We are now considering taking advantage of the - Ms S.E. Walker interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: Here comes the virago from Nedlands. As a result of those two things happening, we are now seeking to use the excess bed capacity that currently exists in the prison system to accommodate people from one prison. That will effect savings to the order of $3 million to $4 million a year. Consideration is being given to the four prisons that were mentioned by the member for Mitchell. The previous Government regarded it as a sign of its success that it was locking up more and more people. I regard it as a sign of its failure.
Ms S.E. Walker interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: Here comes the virago from Nedlands. As a result of those two things happening, we are now seeking to use the excess bed capacity that currently exists in the prison system to accommodate people from one prison. That will effect savings to the order of $3 million to $4 million a year. Consideration is being given to the four prisons that were mentioned by the member for Mitchell. The previous Government regarded it as a sign of its success that it was locking up more and more people. I regard it as a sign of its failure.
Mr J.A. McGINTY: Here comes the virago from Nedlands. As a result of those two things happening, we are now seeking to use the excess bed capacity that currently exists in the prison system to accommodate people from one prison. That will effect savings to the order of $3 million to $4 million a year. Consideration is being given to the four prisons that were mentioned by the member for Mitchell. The previous Government regarded it as a sign of its success that it was locking up more and more people. I regard it as a sign of its failure.
The previous Government regarded it as a sign of its success that it was locking up more and more people. I regard it as a sign of its failure.
Mrs M.H. Roberts: An increase in clearance rates? That means it is an improvement. Mr D.F. BARRON-SULLIVAN: The minister should hold her horses and wait for the whole question. The SPEAKER: Members, again, unfortunately, I have to refer mainly to the right-hand side of the House when I say that it is absolutely inappropriate to interject on questions. Members should at least listen to the question and I ask members not to interject on questions. Mr D.F. BARRON-SULLIVAN: Given that an additional 5 000 property offences occurred last financial year compared with the year before, that clearance rates have increased and that DNA testing will enable even more criminals to be brought to justice, how does this Government justify closing a regional prison at either Bunbury, Roebourne, Greenough or Albany? Mr J.A. McGINTY replied: Mr Speaker - Mr J.L. Bradshaw: It shut down the Pinjarra courthouse, so it can do it very easily. Mr J.A. McGINTY: I thank the member for Murray-Wellington; there is the answer to the question. One of the areas of greatest neglect under the former Government was our prison system. When this Government came to power two years ago, it found a system that was literally bursting at the seams as a consequence of policies that resulted in an unprecedented number of Western Australian citizens locked up in jail, generally speaking for minor offences and often as minor as driving without a motor vehicle licence. Mr R.F. Johnson: There were hardly any of those. Mr J.A. McGINTY: Yes, there was a significant number of them. A very large number of people in Western Australian prisons would have been far more effectively punished in the community, as occurs in each of the other States. Members need only look at the statistics for Western Australia compared with each of the other States. The Australian average rate of imprisonment when Labor came to government was approximately 145 per 100 000 of population. The Western Australian figure was 220 per 100 000 of population. Therefore, this State was locking up people at a rate that was dramatically higher - not quite double - than the Australian average. Two things need to be said about imprisonment as a penalty. These comments refer particularly to minor offenders. The first is that it is the most expensive option available. It costs approximately $70 000 to keep one prisoner in jail for one year in Western Australia. The Government has a certain pool of money - this is true of Governments on either side of politics. The Government must choose whether it wants to spend that money locking up minor offenders in the most expensive way possible or whether it wants to have that money available to spend on hospitals and schools. It is a simple choice that is available. In fact, it is a rational economic choice that needs to be made in those areas. The second point I should make about imprisonment is that I do not think anyone has ever come out of prison a better person for the experience. Many people need to be locked up. All the serious offenders in this State deserve to be locked up and, as far as I am concerned, they should be dealt with harshly. Mr M.J. Birney: Will you take an interjection? Mr J.A. McGINTY: No, just let me answer the question first. People are far more likely to be criminalised as a result of spending time in prison. That is borne out by the fact that two-thirds of the people, after walking out of the prison gate, will re-offend within two years. Therefore, it cannot be said that prison has a salutary effect on people, leading them away from crime and into a life of righteousness, because two-thirds will re-offend. Forty-five per cent of people who are released from prison in this State end up back in prison for having committed a sufficiently serious offence - Several members interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: I will repeat that when members opposite are quiet. Forty-five per cent of all people who are released from prison are convicted and put back into prison within a two-year period for having committed a sufficiently serious offence. A term of imprisonment may well serve a valuable punitive role for the individuals who go into prison, but it does not serve a role in preventing people from committing offences. In fact, the argument in Western Australia is that putting minor offenders in jail exposes them to the hardened criminal elements and they are more likely to re-offend. During 1998 there was a dramatic response to the policies of the previous Government under which there was approximately a 40 per cent increase in that one year in the number of people who were imprisoned. Those members who were in the Cabinet of the previous Government know what pressures that put on the allocation of financial resources. In the five years prior to the state election in 2001, expenditure on prisons in Western Australia increased by a massive 75 per cent. Money was taken out of other areas such as education, hospitals and policing in order to lock up people. Western Australians are no more criminal than are people anywhere else in the country. Therefore, why is Western Australia locking up its citizens in disproportionate numbers? When people commit offences they should be punished. Any rational debate on this issue would point to the fact that it is better to deal with minor offenders, when there is no real threat to the community, by punishing them in the community and reserving prison for the most serious offenders. Two things have occurred that have dramatically driven down the population in the State’s prison system in the past 18 months. Mr R.F. Johnson: You let them out. Mr J.A. McGINTY: No. The first and most dramatic contributor was the opening of the new privatised Acacia Prison. Just over 700 people were taken out of the government prison system and placed in the new privatised prison. The second thing that occurred is that we consciously - and I might say with some pride - took action to take the minor offenders out of the prisons. At the moment we have legislation before the Parliament to abolish sentences of less than six months. The simple proposition is that, generally speaking, a person who gets a sentence of less than six months is not a serious criminal who poses a great threat to the community. If that were the case, that person should get a longer sentence than that. Therefore, 400 prisoners who were minor offenders and should not have been in prison in the first place were taken out of the prison population, and 700 prisoners went to the privatised prison. Effectively, the state prison population dropped by 33 per cent. Throughout the State we have now closed wings of prisons and two prisons - Pardelup Prison Farm and Riverbank Prison. We are now considering taking advantage of the - Ms S.E. Walker interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: Here comes the virago from Nedlands. As a result of those two things happening, we are now seeking to use the excess bed capacity that currently exists in the prison system to accommodate people from one prison. That will effect savings to the order of $3 million to $4 million a year. Consideration is being given to the four prisons that were mentioned by the member for Mitchell. The previous Government regarded it as a sign of its success that it was locking up more and more people. I regard it as a sign of its failure.
Mr D.F. BARRON-SULLIVAN: The minister should hold her horses and wait for the whole question. The SPEAKER: Members, again, unfortunately, I have to refer mainly to the right-hand side of the House when I say that it is absolutely inappropriate to interject on questions. Members should at least listen to the question and I ask members not to interject on questions. Mr D.F. BARRON-SULLIVAN: Given that an additional 5 000 property offences occurred last financial year compared with the year before, that clearance rates have increased and that DNA testing will enable even more criminals to be brought to justice, how does this Government justify closing a regional prison at either Bunbury, Roebourne, Greenough or Albany? Mr J.A. McGINTY replied: Mr Speaker - Mr J.L. Bradshaw: It shut down the Pinjarra courthouse, so it can do it very easily. Mr J.A. McGINTY: I thank the member for Murray-Wellington; there is the answer to the question. One of the areas of greatest neglect under the former Government was our prison system. When this Government came to power two years ago, it found a system that was literally bursting at the seams as a consequence of policies that resulted in an unprecedented number of Western Australian citizens locked up in jail, generally speaking for minor offences and often as minor as driving without a motor vehicle licence. Mr R.F. Johnson: There were hardly any of those. Mr J.A. McGINTY: Yes, there was a significant number of them. A very large number of people in Western Australian prisons would have been far more effectively punished in the community, as occurs in each of the other States. Members need only look at the statistics for Western Australia compared with each of the other States. The Australian average rate of imprisonment when Labor came to government was approximately 145 per 100 000 of population. The Western Australian figure was 220 per 100 000 of population. Therefore, this State was locking up people at a rate that was dramatically higher - not quite double - than the Australian average. Two things need to be said about imprisonment as a penalty. These comments refer particularly to minor offenders. The first is that it is the most expensive option available. It costs approximately $70 000 to keep one prisoner in jail for one year in Western Australia. The Government has a certain pool of money - this is true of Governments on either side of politics. The Government must choose whether it wants to spend that money locking up minor offenders in the most expensive way possible or whether it wants to have that money available to spend on hospitals and schools. It is a simple choice that is available. In fact, it is a rational economic choice that needs to be made in those areas. The second point I should make about imprisonment is that I do not think anyone has ever come out of prison a better person for the experience. Many people need to be locked up. All the serious offenders in this State deserve to be locked up and, as far as I am concerned, they should be dealt with harshly. Mr M.J. Birney: Will you take an interjection? Mr J.A. McGINTY: No, just let me answer the question first. People are far more likely to be criminalised as a result of spending time in prison. That is borne out by the fact that two-thirds of the people, after walking out of the prison gate, will re-offend within two years. Therefore, it cannot be said that prison has a salutary effect on people, leading them away from crime and into a life of righteousness, because two-thirds will re-offend. Forty-five per cent of people who are released from prison in this State end up back in prison for having committed a sufficiently serious offence - Several members interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: I will repeat that when members opposite are quiet. Forty-five per cent of all people who are released from prison are convicted and put back into prison within a two-year period for having committed a sufficiently serious offence. A term of imprisonment may well serve a valuable punitive role for the individuals who go into prison, but it does not serve a role in preventing people from committing offences. In fact, the argument in Western Australia is that putting minor offenders in jail exposes them to the hardened criminal elements and they are more likely to re-offend. During 1998 there was a dramatic response to the policies of the previous Government under which there was approximately a 40 per cent increase in that one year in the number of people who were imprisoned. Those members who were in the Cabinet of the previous Government know what pressures that put on the allocation of financial resources. In the five years prior to the state election in 2001, expenditure on prisons in Western Australia increased by a massive 75 per cent. Money was taken out of other areas such as education, hospitals and policing in order to lock up people. Western Australians are no more criminal than are people anywhere else in the country. Therefore, why is Western Australia locking up its citizens in disproportionate numbers? When people commit offences they should be punished. Any rational debate on this issue would point to the fact that it is better to deal with minor offenders, when there is no real threat to the community, by punishing them in the community and reserving prison for the most serious offenders. Two things have occurred that have dramatically driven down the population in the State’s prison system in the past 18 months. Mr R.F. Johnson: You let them out. Mr J.A. McGINTY: No. The first and most dramatic contributor was the opening of the new privatised Acacia Prison. Just over 700 people were taken out of the government prison system and placed in the new privatised prison. The second thing that occurred is that we consciously - and I might say with some pride - took action to take the minor offenders out of the prisons. At the moment we have legislation before the Parliament to abolish sentences of less than six months. The simple proposition is that, generally speaking, a person who gets a sentence of less than six months is not a serious criminal who poses a great threat to the community. If that were the case, that person should get a longer sentence than that. Therefore, 400 prisoners who were minor offenders and should not have been in prison in the first place were taken out of the prison population, and 700 prisoners went to the privatised prison. Effectively, the state prison population dropped by 33 per cent. Throughout the State we have now closed wings of prisons and two prisons - Pardelup Prison Farm and Riverbank Prison. We are now considering taking advantage of the - Ms S.E. Walker interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: Here comes the virago from Nedlands. As a result of those two things happening, we are now seeking to use the excess bed capacity that currently exists in the prison system to accommodate people from one prison. That will effect savings to the order of $3 million to $4 million a year. Consideration is being given to the four prisons that were mentioned by the member for Mitchell. The previous Government regarded it as a sign of its success that it was locking up more and more people. I regard it as a sign of its failure.
The SPEAKER: Members, again, unfortunately, I have to refer mainly to the right-hand side of the House when I say that it is absolutely inappropriate to interject on questions. Members should at least listen to the question and I ask members not to interject on questions. Mr D.F. BARRON-SULLIVAN: Given that an additional 5 000 property offences occurred last financial year compared with the year before, that clearance rates have increased and that DNA testing will enable even more criminals to be brought to justice, how does this Government justify closing a regional prison at either Bunbury, Roebourne, Greenough or Albany? Mr J.A. McGINTY replied: Mr Speaker - Mr J.L. Bradshaw: It shut down the Pinjarra courthouse, so it can do it very easily. Mr J.A. McGINTY: I thank the member for Murray-Wellington; there is the answer to the question. One of the areas of greatest neglect under the former Government was our prison system. When this Government came to power two years ago, it found a system that was literally bursting at the seams as a consequence of policies that resulted in an unprecedented number of Western Australian citizens locked up in jail, generally speaking for minor offences and often as minor as driving without a motor vehicle licence. Mr R.F. Johnson: There were hardly any of those. Mr J.A. McGINTY: Yes, there was a significant number of them. A very large number of people in Western Australian prisons would have been far more effectively punished in the community, as occurs in each of the other States. Members need only look at the statistics for Western Australia compared with each of the other States. The Australian average rate of imprisonment when Labor came to government was approximately 145 per 100 000 of population. The Western Australian figure was 220 per 100 000 of population. Therefore, this State was locking up people at a rate that was dramatically higher - not quite double - than the Australian average. Two things need to be said about imprisonment as a penalty. These comments refer particularly to minor offenders. The first is that it is the most expensive option available. It costs approximately $70 000 to keep one prisoner in jail for one year in Western Australia. The Government has a certain pool of money - this is true of Governments on either side of politics. The Government must choose whether it wants to spend that money locking up minor offenders in the most expensive way possible or whether it wants to have that money available to spend on hospitals and schools. It is a simple choice that is available. In fact, it is a rational economic choice that needs to be made in those areas. The second point I should make about imprisonment is that I do not think anyone has ever come out of prison a better person for the experience. Many people need to be locked up. All the serious offenders in this State deserve to be locked up and, as far as I am concerned, they should be dealt with harshly. Mr M.J. Birney: Will you take an interjection? Mr J.A. McGINTY: No, just let me answer the question first. People are far more likely to be criminalised as a result of spending time in prison. That is borne out by the fact that two-thirds of the people, after walking out of the prison gate, will re-offend within two years. Therefore, it cannot be said that prison has a salutary effect on people, leading them away from crime and into a life of righteousness, because two-thirds will re-offend. Forty-five per cent of people who are released from prison in this State end up back in prison for having committed a sufficiently serious offence - Several members interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: I will repeat that when members opposite are quiet. Forty-five per cent of all people who are released from prison are convicted and put back into prison within a two-year period for having committed a sufficiently serious offence. A term of imprisonment may well serve a valuable punitive role for the individuals who go into prison, but it does not serve a role in preventing people from committing offences. In fact, the argument in Western Australia is that putting minor offenders in jail exposes them to the hardened criminal elements and they are more likely to re-offend. During 1998 there was a dramatic response to the policies of the previous Government under which there was approximately a 40 per cent increase in that one year in the number of people who were imprisoned. Those members who were in the Cabinet of the previous Government know what pressures that put on the allocation of financial resources. In the five years prior to the state election in 2001, expenditure on prisons in Western Australia increased by a massive 75 per cent. Money was taken out of other areas such as education, hospitals and policing in order to lock up people. Western Australians are no more criminal than are people anywhere else in the country. Therefore, why is Western Australia locking up its citizens in disproportionate numbers? When people commit offences they should be punished. Any rational debate on this issue would point to the fact that it is better to deal with minor offenders, when there is no real threat to the community, by punishing them in the community and reserving prison for the most serious offenders. Two things have occurred that have dramatically driven down the population in the State’s prison system in the past 18 months. Mr R.F. Johnson: You let them out. Mr J.A. McGINTY: No. The first and most dramatic contributor was the opening of the new privatised Acacia Prison. Just over 700 people were taken out of the government prison system and placed in the new privatised prison. The second thing that occurred is that we consciously - and I might say with some pride - took action to take the minor offenders out of the prisons. At the moment we have legislation before the Parliament to abolish sentences of less than six months. The simple proposition is that, generally speaking, a person who gets a sentence of less than six months is not a serious criminal who poses a great threat to the community. If that were the case, that person should get a longer sentence than that. Therefore, 400 prisoners who were minor offenders and should not have been in prison in the first place were taken out of the prison population, and 700 prisoners went to the privatised prison. Effectively, the state prison population dropped by 33 per cent. Throughout the State we have now closed wings of prisons and two prisons - Pardelup Prison Farm and Riverbank Prison. We are now considering taking advantage of the - Ms S.E. Walker interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: Here comes the virago from Nedlands. As a result of those two things happening, we are now seeking to use the excess bed capacity that currently exists in the prison system to accommodate people from one prison. That will effect savings to the order of $3 million to $4 million a year. Consideration is being given to the four prisons that were mentioned by the member for Mitchell. The previous Government regarded it as a sign of its success that it was locking up more and more people. I regard it as a sign of its failure.
Mr D.F. BARRON-SULLIVAN: Given that an additional 5 000 property offences occurred last financial year compared with the year before, that clearance rates have increased and that DNA testing will enable even more criminals to be brought to justice, how does this Government justify closing a regional prison at either Bunbury, Roebourne, Greenough or Albany? Mr J.A. McGINTY replied: Mr Speaker - Mr J.L. Bradshaw: It shut down the Pinjarra courthouse, so it can do it very easily. Mr J.A. McGINTY: I thank the member for Murray-Wellington; there is the answer to the question. One of the areas of greatest neglect under the former Government was our prison system. When this Government came to power two years ago, it found a system that was literally bursting at the seams as a consequence of policies that resulted in an unprecedented number of Western Australian citizens locked up in jail, generally speaking for minor offences and often as minor as driving without a motor vehicle licence. Mr R.F. Johnson: There were hardly any of those. Mr J.A. McGINTY: Yes, there was a significant number of them. A very large number of people in Western Australian prisons would have been far more effectively punished in the community, as occurs in each of the other States. Members need only look at the statistics for Western Australia compared with each of the other States. The Australian average rate of imprisonment when Labor came to government was approximately 145 per 100 000 of population. The Western Australian figure was 220 per 100 000 of population. Therefore, this State was locking up people at a rate that was dramatically higher - not quite double - than the Australian average. Two things need to be said about imprisonment as a penalty. These comments refer particularly to minor offenders. The first is that it is the most expensive option available. It costs approximately $70 000 to keep one prisoner in jail for one year in Western Australia. The Government has a certain pool of money - this is true of Governments on either side of politics. The Government must choose whether it wants to spend that money locking up minor offenders in the most expensive way possible or whether it wants to have that money available to spend on hospitals and schools. It is a simple choice that is available. In fact, it is a rational economic choice that needs to be made in those areas. The second point I should make about imprisonment is that I do not think anyone has ever come out of prison a better person for the experience. Many people need to be locked up. All the serious offenders in this State deserve to be locked up and, as far as I am concerned, they should be dealt with harshly. Mr M.J. Birney: Will you take an interjection? Mr J.A. McGINTY: No, just let me answer the question first. People are far more likely to be criminalised as a result of spending time in prison. That is borne out by the fact that two-thirds of the people, after walking out of the prison gate, will re-offend within two years. Therefore, it cannot be said that prison has a salutary effect on people, leading them away from crime and into a life of righteousness, because two-thirds will re-offend. Forty-five per cent of people who are released from prison in this State end up back in prison for having committed a sufficiently serious offence - Several members interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: I will repeat that when members opposite are quiet. Forty-five per cent of all people who are released from prison are convicted and put back into prison within a two-year period for having committed a sufficiently serious offence. A term of imprisonment may well serve a valuable punitive role for the individuals who go into prison, but it does not serve a role in preventing people from committing offences. In fact, the argument in Western Australia is that putting minor offenders in jail exposes them to the hardened criminal elements and they are more likely to re-offend. During 1998 there was a dramatic response to the policies of the previous Government under which there was approximately a 40 per cent increase in that one year in the number of people who were imprisoned. Those members who were in the Cabinet of the previous Government know what pressures that put on the allocation of financial resources. In the five years prior to the state election in 2001, expenditure on prisons in Western Australia increased by a massive 75 per cent. Money was taken out of other areas such as education, hospitals and policing in order to lock up people. Western Australians are no more criminal than are people anywhere else in the country. Therefore, why is Western Australia locking up its citizens in disproportionate numbers? When people commit offences they should be punished. Any rational debate on this issue would point to the fact that it is better to deal with minor offenders, when there is no real threat to the community, by punishing them in the community and reserving prison for the most serious offenders. Two things have occurred that have dramatically driven down the population in the State’s prison system in the past 18 months. Mr R.F. Johnson: You let them out. Mr J.A. McGINTY: No. The first and most dramatic contributor was the opening of the new privatised Acacia Prison. Just over 700 people were taken out of the government prison system and placed in the new privatised prison. The second thing that occurred is that we consciously - and I might say with some pride - took action to take the minor offenders out of the prisons. At the moment we have legislation before the Parliament to abolish sentences of less than six months. The simple proposition is that, generally speaking, a person who gets a sentence of less than six months is not a serious criminal who poses a great threat to the community. If that were the case, that person should get a longer sentence than that. Therefore, 400 prisoners who were minor offenders and should not have been in prison in the first place were taken out of the prison population, and 700 prisoners went to the privatised prison. Effectively, the state prison population dropped by 33 per cent. Throughout the State we have now closed wings of prisons and two prisons - Pardelup Prison Farm and Riverbank Prison. We are now considering taking advantage of the - Ms S.E. Walker interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: Here comes the virago from Nedlands. As a result of those two things happening, we are now seeking to use the excess bed capacity that currently exists in the prison system to accommodate people from one prison. That will effect savings to the order of $3 million to $4 million a year. Consideration is being given to the four prisons that were mentioned by the member for Mitchell. The previous Government regarded it as a sign of its success that it was locking up more and more people. I regard it as a sign of its failure.
Mr J.A. McGINTY replied: Mr Speaker - Mr J.L. Bradshaw: It shut down the Pinjarra courthouse, so it can do it very easily. Mr J.A. McGINTY: I thank the member for Murray-Wellington; there is the answer to the question. One of the areas of greatest neglect under the former Government was our prison system. When this Government came to power two years ago, it found a system that was literally bursting at the seams as a consequence of policies that resulted in an unprecedented number of Western Australian citizens locked up in jail, generally speaking for minor offences and often as minor as driving without a motor vehicle licence. Mr R.F. Johnson: There were hardly any of those. Mr J.A. McGINTY: Yes, there was a significant number of them. A very large number of people in Western Australian prisons would have been far more effectively punished in the community, as occurs in each of the other States. Members need only look at the statistics for Western Australia compared with each of the other States. The Australian average rate of imprisonment when Labor came to government was approximately 145 per 100 000 of population. The Western Australian figure was 220 per 100 000 of population. Therefore, this State was locking up people at a rate that was dramatically higher - not quite double - than the Australian average. Two things need to be said about imprisonment as a penalty. These comments refer particularly to minor offenders. The first is that it is the most expensive option available. It costs approximately $70 000 to keep one prisoner in jail for one year in Western Australia. The Government has a certain pool of money - this is true of Governments on either side of politics. The Government must choose whether it wants to spend that money locking up minor offenders in the most expensive way possible or whether it wants to have that money available to spend on hospitals and schools. It is a simple choice that is available. In fact, it is a rational economic choice that needs to be made in those areas. The second point I should make about imprisonment is that I do not think anyone has ever come out of prison a better person for the experience. Many people need to be locked up. All the serious offenders in this State deserve to be locked up and, as far as I am concerned, they should be dealt with harshly. Mr M.J. Birney: Will you take an interjection? Mr J.A. McGINTY: No, just let me answer the question first. People are far more likely to be criminalised as a result of spending time in prison. That is borne out by the fact that two-thirds of the people, after walking out of the prison gate, will re-offend within two years. Therefore, it cannot be said that prison has a salutary effect on people, leading them away from crime and into a life of righteousness, because two-thirds will re-offend. Forty-five per cent of people who are released from prison in this State end up back in prison for having committed a sufficiently serious offence - Several members interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: I will repeat that when members opposite are quiet. Forty-five per cent of all people who are released from prison are convicted and put back into prison within a two-year period for having committed a sufficiently serious offence. A term of imprisonment may well serve a valuable punitive role for the individuals who go into prison, but it does not serve a role in preventing people from committing offences. In fact, the argument in Western Australia is that putting minor offenders in jail exposes them to the hardened criminal elements and they are more likely to re-offend. During 1998 there was a dramatic response to the policies of the previous Government under which there was approximately a 40 per cent increase in that one year in the number of people who were imprisoned. Those members who were in the Cabinet of the previous Government know what pressures that put on the allocation of financial resources. In the five years prior to the state election in 2001, expenditure on prisons in Western Australia increased by a massive 75 per cent. Money was taken out of other areas such as education, hospitals and policing in order to lock up people. Western Australians are no more criminal than are people anywhere else in the country. Therefore, why is Western Australia locking up its citizens in disproportionate numbers? When people commit offences they should be punished. Any rational debate on this issue would point to the fact that it is better to deal with minor offenders, when there is no real threat to the community, by punishing them in the community and reserving prison for the most serious offenders. Two things have occurred that have dramatically driven down the population in the State’s prison system in the past 18 months. Mr R.F. Johnson: You let them out. Mr J.A. McGINTY: No. The first and most dramatic contributor was the opening of the new privatised Acacia Prison. Just over 700 people were taken out of the government prison system and placed in the new privatised prison. The second thing that occurred is that we consciously - and I might say with some pride - took action to take the minor offenders out of the prisons. At the moment we have legislation before the Parliament to abolish sentences of less than six months. The simple proposition is that, generally speaking, a person who gets a sentence of less than six months is not a serious criminal who poses a great threat to the community. If that were the case, that person should get a longer sentence than that. Therefore, 400 prisoners who were minor offenders and should not have been in prison in the first place were taken out of the prison population, and 700 prisoners went to the privatised prison. Effectively, the state prison population dropped by 33 per cent. Throughout the State we have now closed wings of prisons and two prisons - Pardelup Prison Farm and Riverbank Prison. We are now considering taking advantage of the - Ms S.E. Walker interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: Here comes the virago from Nedlands. As a result of those two things happening, we are now seeking to use the excess bed capacity that currently exists in the prison system to accommodate people from one prison. That will effect savings to the order of $3 million to $4 million a year. Consideration is being given to the four prisons that were mentioned by the member for Mitchell. The previous Government regarded it as a sign of its success that it was locking up more and more people. I regard it as a sign of its failure.
Mr Speaker - Mr J.L. Bradshaw: It shut down the Pinjarra courthouse, so it can do it very easily. Mr J.A. McGINTY: I thank the member for Murray-Wellington; there is the answer to the question. One of the areas of greatest neglect under the former Government was our prison system. When this Government came to power two years ago, it found a system that was literally bursting at the seams as a consequence of policies that resulted in an unprecedented number of Western Australian citizens locked up in jail, generally speaking for minor offences and often as minor as driving without a motor vehicle licence. Mr R.F. Johnson: There were hardly any of those. Mr J.A. McGINTY: Yes, there was a significant number of them. A very large number of people in Western Australian prisons would have been far more effectively punished in the community, as occurs in each of the other States. Members need only look at the statistics for Western Australia compared with each of the other States. The Australian average rate of imprisonment when Labor came to government was approximately 145 per 100 000 of population. The Western Australian figure was 220 per 100 000 of population. Therefore, this State was locking up people at a rate that was dramatically higher - not quite double - than the Australian average. Two things need to be said about imprisonment as a penalty. These comments refer particularly to minor offenders. The first is that it is the most expensive option available. It costs approximately $70 000 to keep one prisoner in jail for one year in Western Australia. The Government has a certain pool of money - this is true of Governments on either side of politics. The Government must choose whether it wants to spend that money locking up minor offenders in the most expensive way possible or whether it wants to have that money available to spend on hospitals and schools. It is a simple choice that is available. In fact, it is a rational economic choice that needs to be made in those areas. The second point I should make about imprisonment is that I do not think anyone has ever come out of prison a better person for the experience. Many people need to be locked up. All the serious offenders in this State deserve to be locked up and, as far as I am concerned, they should be dealt with harshly. Mr M.J. Birney: Will you take an interjection? Mr J.A. McGINTY: No, just let me answer the question first. People are far more likely to be criminalised as a result of spending time in prison. That is borne out by the fact that two-thirds of the people, after walking out of the prison gate, will re-offend within two years. Therefore, it cannot be said that prison has a salutary effect on people, leading them away from crime and into a life of righteousness, because two-thirds will re-offend. Forty-five per cent of people who are released from prison in this State end up back in prison for having committed a sufficiently serious offence - Several members interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: I will repeat that when members opposite are quiet. Forty-five per cent of all people who are released from prison are convicted and put back into prison within a two-year period for having committed a sufficiently serious offence. A term of imprisonment may well serve a valuable punitive role for the individuals who go into prison, but it does not serve a role in preventing people from committing offences. In fact, the argument in Western Australia is that putting minor offenders in jail exposes them to the hardened criminal elements and they are more likely to re-offend. During 1998 there was a dramatic response to the policies of the previous Government under which there was approximately a 40 per cent increase in that one year in the number of people who were imprisoned. Those members who were in the Cabinet of the previous Government know what pressures that put on the allocation of financial resources. In the five years prior to the state election in 2001, expenditure on prisons in Western Australia increased by a massive 75 per cent. Money was taken out of other areas such as education, hospitals and policing in order to lock up people. Western Australians are no more criminal than are people anywhere else in the country. Therefore, why is Western Australia locking up its citizens in disproportionate numbers? When people commit offences they should be punished. Any rational debate on this issue would point to the fact that it is better to deal with minor offenders, when there is no real threat to the community, by punishing them in the community and reserving prison for the most serious offenders. Two things have occurred that have dramatically driven down the population in the State’s prison system in the past 18 months. Mr R.F. Johnson: You let them out. Mr J.A. McGINTY: No. The first and most dramatic contributor was the opening of the new privatised Acacia Prison. Just over 700 people were taken out of the government prison system and placed in the new privatised prison. The second thing that occurred is that we consciously - and I might say with some pride - took action to take the minor offenders out of the prisons. At the moment we have legislation before the Parliament to abolish sentences of less than six months. The simple proposition is that, generally speaking, a person who gets a sentence of less than six months is not a serious criminal who poses a great threat to the community. If that were the case, that person should get a longer sentence than that. Therefore, 400 prisoners who were minor offenders and should not have been in prison in the first place were taken out of the prison population, and 700 prisoners went to the privatised prison. Effectively, the state prison population dropped by 33 per cent. Throughout the State we have now closed wings of prisons and two prisons - Pardelup Prison Farm and Riverbank Prison. We are now considering taking advantage of the - Ms S.E. Walker interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: Here comes the virago from Nedlands. As a result of those two things happening, we are now seeking to use the excess bed capacity that currently exists in the prison system to accommodate people from one prison. That will effect savings to the order of $3 million to $4 million a year. Consideration is being given to the four prisons that were mentioned by the member for Mitchell. The previous Government regarded it as a sign of its success that it was locking up more and more people. I regard it as a sign of its failure.
Mr J.L. Bradshaw: It shut down the Pinjarra courthouse, so it can do it very easily. Mr J.A. McGINTY: I thank the member for Murray-Wellington; there is the answer to the question. One of the areas of greatest neglect under the former Government was our prison system. When this Government came to power two years ago, it found a system that was literally bursting at the seams as a consequence of policies that resulted in an unprecedented number of Western Australian citizens locked up in jail, generally speaking for minor offences and often as minor as driving without a motor vehicle licence. Mr R.F. Johnson: There were hardly any of those. Mr J.A. McGINTY: Yes, there was a significant number of them. A very large number of people in Western Australian prisons would have been far more effectively punished in the community, as occurs in each of the other States. Members need only look at the statistics for Western Australia compared with each of the other States. The Australian average rate of imprisonment when Labor came to government was approximately 145 per 100 000 of population. The Western Australian figure was 220 per 100 000 of population. Therefore, this State was locking up people at a rate that was dramatically higher - not quite double - than the Australian average. Two things need to be said about imprisonment as a penalty. These comments refer particularly to minor offenders. The first is that it is the most expensive option available. It costs approximately $70 000 to keep one prisoner in jail for one year in Western Australia. The Government has a certain pool of money - this is true of Governments on either side of politics. The Government must choose whether it wants to spend that money locking up minor offenders in the most expensive way possible or whether it wants to have that money available to spend on hospitals and schools. It is a simple choice that is available. In fact, it is a rational economic choice that needs to be made in those areas. The second point I should make about imprisonment is that I do not think anyone has ever come out of prison a better person for the experience. Many people need to be locked up. All the serious offenders in this State deserve to be locked up and, as far as I am concerned, they should be dealt with harshly. Mr M.J. Birney: Will you take an interjection? Mr J.A. McGINTY: No, just let me answer the question first. People are far more likely to be criminalised as a result of spending time in prison. That is borne out by the fact that two-thirds of the people, after walking out of the prison gate, will re-offend within two years. Therefore, it cannot be said that prison has a salutary effect on people, leading them away from crime and into a life of righteousness, because two-thirds will re-offend. Forty-five per cent of people who are released from prison in this State end up back in prison for having committed a sufficiently serious offence - Several members interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: I will repeat that when members opposite are quiet. Forty-five per cent of all people who are released from prison are convicted and put back into prison within a two-year period for having committed a sufficiently serious offence. A term of imprisonment may well serve a valuable punitive role for the individuals who go into prison, but it does not serve a role in preventing people from committing offences. In fact, the argument in Western Australia is that putting minor offenders in jail exposes them to the hardened criminal elements and they are more likely to re-offend. During 1998 there was a dramatic response to the policies of the previous Government under which there was approximately a 40 per cent increase in that one year in the number of people who were imprisoned. Those members who were in the Cabinet of the previous Government know what pressures that put on the allocation of financial resources. In the five years prior to the state election in 2001, expenditure on prisons in Western Australia increased by a massive 75 per cent. Money was taken out of other areas such as education, hospitals and policing in order to lock up people. Western Australians are no more criminal than are people anywhere else in the country. Therefore, why is Western Australia locking up its citizens in disproportionate numbers? When people commit offences they should be punished. Any rational debate on this issue would point to the fact that it is better to deal with minor offenders, when there is no real threat to the community, by punishing them in the community and reserving prison for the most serious offenders. Two things have occurred that have dramatically driven down the population in the State’s prison system in the past 18 months. Mr R.F. Johnson: You let them out. Mr J.A. McGINTY: No. The first and most dramatic contributor was the opening of the new privatised Acacia Prison. Just over 700 people were taken out of the government prison system and placed in the new privatised prison. The second thing that occurred is that we consciously - and I might say with some pride - took action to take the minor offenders out of the prisons. At the moment we have legislation before the Parliament to abolish sentences of less than six months. The simple proposition is that, generally speaking, a person who gets a sentence of less than six months is not a serious criminal who poses a great threat to the community. If that were the case, that person should get a longer sentence than that. Therefore, 400 prisoners who were minor offenders and should not have been in prison in the first place were taken out of the prison population, and 700 prisoners went to the privatised prison. Effectively, the state prison population dropped by 33 per cent. Throughout the State we have now closed wings of prisons and two prisons - Pardelup Prison Farm and Riverbank Prison. We are now considering taking advantage of the - Ms S.E. Walker interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: Here comes the virago from Nedlands. As a result of those two things happening, we are now seeking to use the excess bed capacity that currently exists in the prison system to accommodate people from one prison. That will effect savings to the order of $3 million to $4 million a year. Consideration is being given to the four prisons that were mentioned by the member for Mitchell. The previous Government regarded it as a sign of its success that it was locking up more and more people. I regard it as a sign of its failure.
Mr J.A. McGINTY: I thank the member for Murray-Wellington; there is the answer to the question. One of the areas of greatest neglect under the former Government was our prison system. When this Government came to power two years ago, it found a system that was literally bursting at the seams as a consequence of policies that resulted in an unprecedented number of Western Australian citizens locked up in jail, generally speaking for minor offences and often as minor as driving without a motor vehicle licence. Mr R.F. Johnson: There were hardly any of those. Mr J.A. McGINTY: Yes, there was a significant number of them. A very large number of people in Western Australian prisons would have been far more effectively punished in the community, as occurs in each of the other States. Members need only look at the statistics for Western Australia compared with each of the other States. The Australian average rate of imprisonment when Labor came to government was approximately 145 per 100 000 of population. The Western Australian figure was 220 per 100 000 of population. Therefore, this State was locking up people at a rate that was dramatically higher - not quite double - than the Australian average. Two things need to be said about imprisonment as a penalty. These comments refer particularly to minor offenders. The first is that it is the most expensive option available. It costs approximately $70 000 to keep one prisoner in jail for one year in Western Australia. The Government has a certain pool of money - this is true of Governments on either side of politics. The Government must choose whether it wants to spend that money locking up minor offenders in the most expensive way possible or whether it wants to have that money available to spend on hospitals and schools. It is a simple choice that is available. In fact, it is a rational economic choice that needs to be made in those areas. The second point I should make about imprisonment is that I do not think anyone has ever come out of prison a better person for the experience. Many people need to be locked up. All the serious offenders in this State deserve to be locked up and, as far as I am concerned, they should be dealt with harshly. Mr M.J. Birney: Will you take an interjection? Mr J.A. McGINTY: No, just let me answer the question first. People are far more likely to be criminalised as a result of spending time in prison. That is borne out by the fact that two-thirds of the people, after walking out of the prison gate, will re-offend within two years. Therefore, it cannot be said that prison has a salutary effect on people, leading them away from crime and into a life of righteousness, because two-thirds will re-offend. Forty-five per cent of people who are released from prison in this State end up back in prison for having committed a sufficiently serious offence - Several members interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: I will repeat that when members opposite are quiet. Forty-five per cent of all people who are released from prison are convicted and put back into prison within a two-year period for having committed a sufficiently serious offence. A term of imprisonment may well serve a valuable punitive role for the individuals who go into prison, but it does not serve a role in preventing people from committing offences. In fact, the argument in Western Australia is that putting minor offenders in jail exposes them to the hardened criminal elements and they are more likely to re-offend. During 1998 there was a dramatic response to the policies of the previous Government under which there was approximately a 40 per cent increase in that one year in the number of people who were imprisoned. Those members who were in the Cabinet of the previous Government know what pressures that put on the allocation of financial resources. In the five years prior to the state election in 2001, expenditure on prisons in Western Australia increased by a massive 75 per cent. Money was taken out of other areas such as education, hospitals and policing in order to lock up people. Western Australians are no more criminal than are people anywhere else in the country. Therefore, why is Western Australia locking up its citizens in disproportionate numbers? When people commit offences they should be punished. Any rational debate on this issue would point to the fact that it is better to deal with minor offenders, when there is no real threat to the community, by punishing them in the community and reserving prison for the most serious offenders. Two things have occurred that have dramatically driven down the population in the State’s prison system in the past 18 months. Mr R.F. Johnson: You let them out. Mr J.A. McGINTY: No. The first and most dramatic contributor was the opening of the new privatised Acacia Prison. Just over 700 people were taken out of the government prison system and placed in the new privatised prison. The second thing that occurred is that we consciously - and I might say with some pride - took action to take the minor offenders out of the prisons. At the moment we have legislation before the Parliament to abolish sentences of less than six months. The simple proposition is that, generally speaking, a person who gets a sentence of less than six months is not a serious criminal who poses a great threat to the community. If that were the case, that person should get a longer sentence than that. Therefore, 400 prisoners who were minor offenders and should not have been in prison in the first place were taken out of the prison population, and 700 prisoners went to the privatised prison. Effectively, the state prison population dropped by 33 per cent. Throughout the State we have now closed wings of prisons and two prisons - Pardelup Prison Farm and Riverbank Prison. We are now considering taking advantage of the - Ms S.E. Walker interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: Here comes the virago from Nedlands. As a result of those two things happening, we are now seeking to use the excess bed capacity that currently exists in the prison system to accommodate people from one prison. That will effect savings to the order of $3 million to $4 million a year. Consideration is being given to the four prisons that were mentioned by the member for Mitchell. The previous Government regarded it as a sign of its success that it was locking up more and more people. I regard it as a sign of its failure.
One of the areas of greatest neglect under the former Government was our prison system. When this Government came to power two years ago, it found a system that was literally bursting at the seams as a consequence of policies that resulted in an unprecedented number of Western Australian citizens locked up in jail, generally speaking for minor offences and often as minor as driving without a motor vehicle licence. Mr R.F. Johnson: There were hardly any of those. Mr J.A. McGINTY: Yes, there was a significant number of them. A very large number of people in Western Australian prisons would have been far more effectively punished in the community, as occurs in each of the other States. Members need only look at the statistics for Western Australia compared with each of the other States. The Australian average rate of imprisonment when Labor came to government was approximately 145 per 100 000 of population. The Western Australian figure was 220 per 100 000 of population. Therefore, this State was locking up people at a rate that was dramatically higher - not quite double - than the Australian average. Two things need to be said about imprisonment as a penalty. These comments refer particularly to minor offenders. The first is that it is the most expensive option available. It costs approximately $70 000 to keep one prisoner in jail for one year in Western Australia. The Government has a certain pool of money - this is true of Governments on either side of politics. The Government must choose whether it wants to spend that money locking up minor offenders in the most expensive way possible or whether it wants to have that money available to spend on hospitals and schools. It is a simple choice that is available. In fact, it is a rational economic choice that needs to be made in those areas. The second point I should make about imprisonment is that I do not think anyone has ever come out of prison a better person for the experience. Many people need to be locked up. All the serious offenders in this State deserve to be locked up and, as far as I am concerned, they should be dealt with harshly. Mr M.J. Birney: Will you take an interjection? Mr J.A. McGINTY: No, just let me answer the question first. People are far more likely to be criminalised as a result of spending time in prison. That is borne out by the fact that two-thirds of the people, after walking out of the prison gate, will re-offend within two years. Therefore, it cannot be said that prison has a salutary effect on people, leading them away from crime and into a life of righteousness, because two-thirds will re-offend. Forty-five per cent of people who are released from prison in this State end up back in prison for having committed a sufficiently serious offence - Several members interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: I will repeat that when members opposite are quiet. Forty-five per cent of all people who are released from prison are convicted and put back into prison within a two-year period for having committed a sufficiently serious offence. A term of imprisonment may well serve a valuable punitive role for the individuals who go into prison, but it does not serve a role in preventing people from committing offences. In fact, the argument in Western Australia is that putting minor offenders in jail exposes them to the hardened criminal elements and they are more likely to re-offend. During 1998 there was a dramatic response to the policies of the previous Government under which there was approximately a 40 per cent increase in that one year in the number of people who were imprisoned. Those members who were in the Cabinet of the previous Government know what pressures that put on the allocation of financial resources. In the five years prior to the state election in 2001, expenditure on prisons in Western Australia increased by a massive 75 per cent. Money was taken out of other areas such as education, hospitals and policing in order to lock up people. Western Australians are no more criminal than are people anywhere else in the country. Therefore, why is Western Australia locking up its citizens in disproportionate numbers? When people commit offences they should be punished. Any rational debate on this issue would point to the fact that it is better to deal with minor offenders, when there is no real threat to the community, by punishing them in the community and reserving prison for the most serious offenders. Two things have occurred that have dramatically driven down the population in the State’s prison system in the past 18 months. Mr R.F. Johnson: You let them out. Mr J.A. McGINTY: No. The first and most dramatic contributor was the opening of the new privatised Acacia Prison. Just over 700 people were taken out of the government prison system and placed in the new privatised prison. The second thing that occurred is that we consciously - and I might say with some pride - took action to take the minor offenders out of the prisons. At the moment we have legislation before the Parliament to abolish sentences of less than six months. The simple proposition is that, generally speaking, a person who gets a sentence of less than six months is not a serious criminal who poses a great threat to the community. If that were the case, that person should get a longer sentence than that. Therefore, 400 prisoners who were minor offenders and should not have been in prison in the first place were taken out of the prison population, and 700 prisoners went to the privatised prison. Effectively, the state prison population dropped by 33 per cent. Throughout the State we have now closed wings of prisons and two prisons - Pardelup Prison Farm and Riverbank Prison. We are now considering taking advantage of the - Ms S.E. Walker interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: Here comes the virago from Nedlands. As a result of those two things happening, we are now seeking to use the excess bed capacity that currently exists in the prison system to accommodate people from one prison. That will effect savings to the order of $3 million to $4 million a year. Consideration is being given to the four prisons that were mentioned by the member for Mitchell. The previous Government regarded it as a sign of its success that it was locking up more and more people. I regard it as a sign of its failure.
Mr R.F. Johnson: There were hardly any of those. Mr J.A. McGINTY: Yes, there was a significant number of them. A very large number of people in Western Australian prisons would have been far more effectively punished in the community, as occurs in each of the other States. Members need only look at the statistics for Western Australia compared with each of the other States. The Australian average rate of imprisonment when Labor came to government was approximately 145 per 100 000 of population. The Western Australian figure was 220 per 100 000 of population. Therefore, this State was locking up people at a rate that was dramatically higher - not quite double - than the Australian average. Two things need to be said about imprisonment as a penalty. These comments refer particularly to minor offenders. The first is that it is the most expensive option available. It costs approximately $70 000 to keep one prisoner in jail for one year in Western Australia. The Government has a certain pool of money - this is true of Governments on either side of politics. The Government must choose whether it wants to spend that money locking up minor offenders in the most expensive way possible or whether it wants to have that money available to spend on hospitals and schools. It is a simple choice that is available. In fact, it is a rational economic choice that needs to be made in those areas. The second point I should make about imprisonment is that I do not think anyone has ever come out of prison a better person for the experience. Many people need to be locked up. All the serious offenders in this State deserve to be locked up and, as far as I am concerned, they should be dealt with harshly. Mr M.J. Birney: Will you take an interjection? Mr J.A. McGINTY: No, just let me answer the question first. People are far more likely to be criminalised as a result of spending time in prison. That is borne out by the fact that two-thirds of the people, after walking out of the prison gate, will re-offend within two years. Therefore, it cannot be said that prison has a salutary effect on people, leading them away from crime and into a life of righteousness, because two-thirds will re-offend. Forty-five per cent of people who are released from prison in this State end up back in prison for having committed a sufficiently serious offence - Several members interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: I will repeat that when members opposite are quiet. Forty-five per cent of all people who are released from prison are convicted and put back into prison within a two-year period for having committed a sufficiently serious offence. A term of imprisonment may well serve a valuable punitive role for the individuals who go into prison, but it does not serve a role in preventing people from committing offences. In fact, the argument in Western Australia is that putting minor offenders in jail exposes them to the hardened criminal elements and they are more likely to re-offend. During 1998 there was a dramatic response to the policies of the previous Government under which there was approximately a 40 per cent increase in that one year in the number of people who were imprisoned. Those members who were in the Cabinet of the previous Government know what pressures that put on the allocation of financial resources. In the five years prior to the state election in 2001, expenditure on prisons in Western Australia increased by a massive 75 per cent. Money was taken out of other areas such as education, hospitals and policing in order to lock up people. Western Australians are no more criminal than are people anywhere else in the country. Therefore, why is Western Australia locking up its citizens in disproportionate numbers? When people commit offences they should be punished. Any rational debate on this issue would point to the fact that it is better to deal with minor offenders, when there is no real threat to the community, by punishing them in the community and reserving prison for the most serious offenders. Two things have occurred that have dramatically driven down the population in the State’s prison system in the past 18 months. Mr R.F. Johnson: You let them out. Mr J.A. McGINTY: No. The first and most dramatic contributor was the opening of the new privatised Acacia Prison. Just over 700 people were taken out of the government prison system and placed in the new privatised prison. The second thing that occurred is that we consciously - and I might say with some pride - took action to take the minor offenders out of the prisons. At the moment we have legislation before the Parliament to abolish sentences of less than six months. The simple proposition is that, generally speaking, a person who gets a sentence of less than six months is not a serious criminal who poses a great threat to the community. If that were the case, that person should get a longer sentence than that. Therefore, 400 prisoners who were minor offenders and should not have been in prison in the first place were taken out of the prison population, and 700 prisoners went to the privatised prison. Effectively, the state prison population dropped by 33 per cent. Throughout the State we have now closed wings of prisons and two prisons - Pardelup Prison Farm and Riverbank Prison. We are now considering taking advantage of the - Ms S.E. Walker interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: Here comes the virago from Nedlands. As a result of those two things happening, we are now seeking to use the excess bed capacity that currently exists in the prison system to accommodate people from one prison. That will effect savings to the order of $3 million to $4 million a year. Consideration is being given to the four prisons that were mentioned by the member for Mitchell. The previous Government regarded it as a sign of its success that it was locking up more and more people. I regard it as a sign of its failure.
Mr J.A. McGINTY: Yes, there was a significant number of them. A very large number of people in Western Australian prisons would have been far more effectively punished in the community, as occurs in each of the other States. Members need only look at the statistics for Western Australia compared with each of the other States. The Australian average rate of imprisonment when Labor came to government was approximately 145 per 100 000 of population. The Western Australian figure was 220 per 100 000 of population. Therefore, this State was locking up people at a rate that was dramatically higher - not quite double - than the Australian average. Two things need to be said about imprisonment as a penalty. These comments refer particularly to minor offenders. The first is that it is the most expensive option available. It costs approximately $70 000 to keep one prisoner in jail for one year in Western Australia. The Government has a certain pool of money - this is true of Governments on either side of politics. The Government must choose whether it wants to spend that money locking up minor offenders in the most expensive way possible or whether it wants to have that money available to spend on hospitals and schools. It is a simple choice that is available. In fact, it is a rational economic choice that needs to be made in those areas. The second point I should make about imprisonment is that I do not think anyone has ever come out of prison a better person for the experience. Many people need to be locked up. All the serious offenders in this State deserve to be locked up and, as far as I am concerned, they should be dealt with harshly. Mr M.J. Birney: Will you take an interjection? Mr J.A. McGINTY: No, just let me answer the question first. People are far more likely to be criminalised as a result of spending time in prison. That is borne out by the fact that two-thirds of the people, after walking out of the prison gate, will re-offend within two years. Therefore, it cannot be said that prison has a salutary effect on people, leading them away from crime and into a life of righteousness, because two-thirds will re-offend. Forty-five per cent of people who are released from prison in this State end up back in prison for having committed a sufficiently serious offence - Several members interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: I will repeat that when members opposite are quiet. Forty-five per cent of all people who are released from prison are convicted and put back into prison within a two-year period for having committed a sufficiently serious offence. A term of imprisonment may well serve a valuable punitive role for the individuals who go into prison, but it does not serve a role in preventing people from committing offences. In fact, the argument in Western Australia is that putting minor offenders in jail exposes them to the hardened criminal elements and they are more likely to re-offend. During 1998 there was a dramatic response to the policies of the previous Government under which there was approximately a 40 per cent increase in that one year in the number of people who were imprisoned. Those members who were in the Cabinet of the previous Government know what pressures that put on the allocation of financial resources. In the five years prior to the state election in 2001, expenditure on prisons in Western Australia increased by a massive 75 per cent. Money was taken out of other areas such as education, hospitals and policing in order to lock up people. Western Australians are no more criminal than are people anywhere else in the country. Therefore, why is Western Australia locking up its citizens in disproportionate numbers? When people commit offences they should be punished. Any rational debate on this issue would point to the fact that it is better to deal with minor offenders, when there is no real threat to the community, by punishing them in the community and reserving prison for the most serious offenders. Two things have occurred that have dramatically driven down the population in the State’s prison system in the past 18 months. Mr R.F. Johnson: You let them out. Mr J.A. McGINTY: No. The first and most dramatic contributor was the opening of the new privatised Acacia Prison. Just over 700 people were taken out of the government prison system and placed in the new privatised prison. The second thing that occurred is that we consciously - and I might say with some pride - took action to take the minor offenders out of the prisons. At the moment we have legislation before the Parliament to abolish sentences of less than six months. The simple proposition is that, generally speaking, a person who gets a sentence of less than six months is not a serious criminal who poses a great threat to the community. If that were the case, that person should get a longer sentence than that. Therefore, 400 prisoners who were minor offenders and should not have been in prison in the first place were taken out of the prison population, and 700 prisoners went to the privatised prison. Effectively, the state prison population dropped by 33 per cent. Throughout the State we have now closed wings of prisons and two prisons - Pardelup Prison Farm and Riverbank Prison. We are now considering taking advantage of the - Ms S.E. Walker interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: Here comes the virago from Nedlands. As a result of those two things happening, we are now seeking to use the excess bed capacity that currently exists in the prison system to accommodate people from one prison. That will effect savings to the order of $3 million to $4 million a year. Consideration is being given to the four prisons that were mentioned by the member for Mitchell. The previous Government regarded it as a sign of its success that it was locking up more and more people. I regard it as a sign of its failure.
A very large number of people in Western Australian prisons would have been far more effectively punished in the community, as occurs in each of the other States. Members need only look at the statistics for Western Australia compared with each of the other States. The Australian average rate of imprisonment when Labor came to government was approximately 145 per 100 000 of population. The Western Australian figure was 220 per 100 000 of population. Therefore, this State was locking up people at a rate that was dramatically higher - not quite double - than the Australian average. Two things need to be said about imprisonment as a penalty. These comments refer particularly to minor offenders. The first is that it is the most expensive option available. It costs approximately $70 000 to keep one prisoner in jail for one year in Western Australia. The Government has a certain pool of money - this is true of Governments on either side of politics. The Government must choose whether it wants to spend that money locking up minor offenders in the most expensive way possible or whether it wants to have that money available to spend on hospitals and schools. It is a simple choice that is available. In fact, it is a rational economic choice that needs to be made in those areas. The second point I should make about imprisonment is that I do not think anyone has ever come out of prison a better person for the experience. Many people need to be locked up. All the serious offenders in this State deserve to be locked up and, as far as I am concerned, they should be dealt with harshly. Mr M.J. Birney: Will you take an interjection? Mr J.A. McGINTY: No, just let me answer the question first. People are far more likely to be criminalised as a result of spending time in prison. That is borne out by the fact that two-thirds of the people, after walking out of the prison gate, will re-offend within two years. Therefore, it cannot be said that prison has a salutary effect on people, leading them away from crime and into a life of righteousness, because two-thirds will re-offend. Forty-five per cent of people who are released from prison in this State end up back in prison for having committed a sufficiently serious offence - Several members interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: I will repeat that when members opposite are quiet. Forty-five per cent of all people who are released from prison are convicted and put back into prison within a two-year period for having committed a sufficiently serious offence. A term of imprisonment may well serve a valuable punitive role for the individuals who go into prison, but it does not serve a role in preventing people from committing offences. In fact, the argument in Western Australia is that putting minor offenders in jail exposes them to the hardened criminal elements and they are more likely to re-offend. During 1998 there was a dramatic response to the policies of the previous Government under which there was approximately a 40 per cent increase in that one year in the number of people who were imprisoned. Those members who were in the Cabinet of the previous Government know what pressures that put on the allocation of financial resources. In the five years prior to the state election in 2001, expenditure on prisons in Western Australia increased by a massive 75 per cent. Money was taken out of other areas such as education, hospitals and policing in order to lock up people. Western Australians are no more criminal than are people anywhere else in the country. Therefore, why is Western Australia locking up its citizens in disproportionate numbers? When people commit offences they should be punished. Any rational debate on this issue would point to the fact that it is better to deal with minor offenders, when there is no real threat to the community, by punishing them in the community and reserving prison for the most serious offenders. Two things have occurred that have dramatically driven down the population in the State’s prison system in the past 18 months. Mr R.F. Johnson: You let them out. Mr J.A. McGINTY: No. The first and most dramatic contributor was the opening of the new privatised Acacia Prison. Just over 700 people were taken out of the government prison system and placed in the new privatised prison. The second thing that occurred is that we consciously - and I might say with some pride - took action to take the minor offenders out of the prisons. At the moment we have legislation before the Parliament to abolish sentences of less than six months. The simple proposition is that, generally speaking, a person who gets a sentence of less than six months is not a serious criminal who poses a great threat to the community. If that were the case, that person should get a longer sentence than that. Therefore, 400 prisoners who were minor offenders and should not have been in prison in the first place were taken out of the prison population, and 700 prisoners went to the privatised prison. Effectively, the state prison population dropped by 33 per cent. Throughout the State we have now closed wings of prisons and two prisons - Pardelup Prison Farm and Riverbank Prison. We are now considering taking advantage of the - Ms S.E. Walker interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: Here comes the virago from Nedlands. As a result of those two things happening, we are now seeking to use the excess bed capacity that currently exists in the prison system to accommodate people from one prison. That will effect savings to the order of $3 million to $4 million a year. Consideration is being given to the four prisons that were mentioned by the member for Mitchell. The previous Government regarded it as a sign of its success that it was locking up more and more people. I regard it as a sign of its failure.
Two things need to be said about imprisonment as a penalty. These comments refer particularly to minor offenders. The first is that it is the most expensive option available. It costs approximately $70 000 to keep one prisoner in jail for one year in Western Australia. The Government has a certain pool of money - this is true of Governments on either side of politics. The Government must choose whether it wants to spend that money locking up minor offenders in the most expensive way possible or whether it wants to have that money available to spend on hospitals and schools. It is a simple choice that is available. In fact, it is a rational economic choice that needs to be made in those areas. The second point I should make about imprisonment is that I do not think anyone has ever come out of prison a better person for the experience. Many people need to be locked up. All the serious offenders in this State deserve to be locked up and, as far as I am concerned, they should be dealt with harshly. Mr M.J. Birney: Will you take an interjection? Mr J.A. McGINTY: No, just let me answer the question first. People are far more likely to be criminalised as a result of spending time in prison. That is borne out by the fact that two-thirds of the people, after walking out of the prison gate, will re-offend within two years. Therefore, it cannot be said that prison has a salutary effect on people, leading them away from crime and into a life of righteousness, because two-thirds will re-offend. Forty-five per cent of people who are released from prison in this State end up back in prison for having committed a sufficiently serious offence - Several members interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: I will repeat that when members opposite are quiet. Forty-five per cent of all people who are released from prison are convicted and put back into prison within a two-year period for having committed a sufficiently serious offence. A term of imprisonment may well serve a valuable punitive role for the individuals who go into prison, but it does not serve a role in preventing people from committing offences. In fact, the argument in Western Australia is that putting minor offenders in jail exposes them to the hardened criminal elements and they are more likely to re-offend. During 1998 there was a dramatic response to the policies of the previous Government under which there was approximately a 40 per cent increase in that one year in the number of people who were imprisoned. Those members who were in the Cabinet of the previous Government know what pressures that put on the allocation of financial resources. In the five years prior to the state election in 2001, expenditure on prisons in Western Australia increased by a massive 75 per cent. Money was taken out of other areas such as education, hospitals and policing in order to lock up people. Western Australians are no more criminal than are people anywhere else in the country. Therefore, why is Western Australia locking up its citizens in disproportionate numbers? When people commit offences they should be punished. Any rational debate on this issue would point to the fact that it is better to deal with minor offenders, when there is no real threat to the community, by punishing them in the community and reserving prison for the most serious offenders. Two things have occurred that have dramatically driven down the population in the State’s prison system in the past 18 months. Mr R.F. Johnson: You let them out. Mr J.A. McGINTY: No. The first and most dramatic contributor was the opening of the new privatised Acacia Prison. Just over 700 people were taken out of the government prison system and placed in the new privatised prison. The second thing that occurred is that we consciously - and I might say with some pride - took action to take the minor offenders out of the prisons. At the moment we have legislation before the Parliament to abolish sentences of less than six months. The simple proposition is that, generally speaking, a person who gets a sentence of less than six months is not a serious criminal who poses a great threat to the community. If that were the case, that person should get a longer sentence than that. Therefore, 400 prisoners who were minor offenders and should not have been in prison in the first place were taken out of the prison population, and 700 prisoners went to the privatised prison. Effectively, the state prison population dropped by 33 per cent. Throughout the State we have now closed wings of prisons and two prisons - Pardelup Prison Farm and Riverbank Prison. We are now considering taking advantage of the - Ms S.E. Walker interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: Here comes the virago from Nedlands. As a result of those two things happening, we are now seeking to use the excess bed capacity that currently exists in the prison system to accommodate people from one prison. That will effect savings to the order of $3 million to $4 million a year. Consideration is being given to the four prisons that were mentioned by the member for Mitchell. The previous Government regarded it as a sign of its success that it was locking up more and more people. I regard it as a sign of its failure.
Mr M.J. Birney: Will you take an interjection? Mr J.A. McGINTY: No, just let me answer the question first. People are far more likely to be criminalised as a result of spending time in prison. That is borne out by the fact that two-thirds of the people, after walking out of the prison gate, will re-offend within two years. Therefore, it cannot be said that prison has a salutary effect on people, leading them away from crime and into a life of righteousness, because two-thirds will re-offend. Forty-five per cent of people who are released from prison in this State end up back in prison for having committed a sufficiently serious offence - Several members interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: I will repeat that when members opposite are quiet. Forty-five per cent of all people who are released from prison are convicted and put back into prison within a two-year period for having committed a sufficiently serious offence. A term of imprisonment may well serve a valuable punitive role for the individuals who go into prison, but it does not serve a role in preventing people from committing offences. In fact, the argument in Western Australia is that putting minor offenders in jail exposes them to the hardened criminal elements and they are more likely to re-offend. During 1998 there was a dramatic response to the policies of the previous Government under which there was approximately a 40 per cent increase in that one year in the number of people who were imprisoned. Those members who were in the Cabinet of the previous Government know what pressures that put on the allocation of financial resources. In the five years prior to the state election in 2001, expenditure on prisons in Western Australia increased by a massive 75 per cent. Money was taken out of other areas such as education, hospitals and policing in order to lock up people. Western Australians are no more criminal than are people anywhere else in the country. Therefore, why is Western Australia locking up its citizens in disproportionate numbers? When people commit offences they should be punished. Any rational debate on this issue would point to the fact that it is better to deal with minor offenders, when there is no real threat to the community, by punishing them in the community and reserving prison for the most serious offenders. Two things have occurred that have dramatically driven down the population in the State’s prison system in the past 18 months. Mr R.F. Johnson: You let them out. Mr J.A. McGINTY: No. The first and most dramatic contributor was the opening of the new privatised Acacia Prison. Just over 700 people were taken out of the government prison system and placed in the new privatised prison. The second thing that occurred is that we consciously - and I might say with some pride - took action to take the minor offenders out of the prisons. At the moment we have legislation before the Parliament to abolish sentences of less than six months. The simple proposition is that, generally speaking, a person who gets a sentence of less than six months is not a serious criminal who poses a great threat to the community. If that were the case, that person should get a longer sentence than that. Therefore, 400 prisoners who were minor offenders and should not have been in prison in the first place were taken out of the prison population, and 700 prisoners went to the privatised prison. Effectively, the state prison population dropped by 33 per cent. Throughout the State we have now closed wings of prisons and two prisons - Pardelup Prison Farm and Riverbank Prison. We are now considering taking advantage of the - Ms S.E. Walker interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: Here comes the virago from Nedlands. As a result of those two things happening, we are now seeking to use the excess bed capacity that currently exists in the prison system to accommodate people from one prison. That will effect savings to the order of $3 million to $4 million a year. Consideration is being given to the four prisons that were mentioned by the member for Mitchell. The previous Government regarded it as a sign of its success that it was locking up more and more people. I regard it as a sign of its failure.
Mr J.A. McGINTY: No, just let me answer the question first. People are far more likely to be criminalised as a result of spending time in prison. That is borne out by the fact that two-thirds of the people, after walking out of the prison gate, will re-offend within two years. Therefore, it cannot be said that prison has a salutary effect on people, leading them away from crime and into a life of righteousness, because two-thirds will re-offend. Forty-five per cent of people who are released from prison in this State end up back in prison for having committed a sufficiently serious offence - Several members interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: I will repeat that when members opposite are quiet. Forty-five per cent of all people who are released from prison are convicted and put back into prison within a two-year period for having committed a sufficiently serious offence. A term of imprisonment may well serve a valuable punitive role for the individuals who go into prison, but it does not serve a role in preventing people from committing offences. In fact, the argument in Western Australia is that putting minor offenders in jail exposes them to the hardened criminal elements and they are more likely to re-offend. During 1998 there was a dramatic response to the policies of the previous Government under which there was approximately a 40 per cent increase in that one year in the number of people who were imprisoned. Those members who were in the Cabinet of the previous Government know what pressures that put on the allocation of financial resources. In the five years prior to the state election in 2001, expenditure on prisons in Western Australia increased by a massive 75 per cent. Money was taken out of other areas such as education, hospitals and policing in order to lock up people. Western Australians are no more criminal than are people anywhere else in the country. Therefore, why is Western Australia locking up its citizens in disproportionate numbers? When people commit offences they should be punished. Any rational debate on this issue would point to the fact that it is better to deal with minor offenders, when there is no real threat to the community, by punishing them in the community and reserving prison for the most serious offenders. Two things have occurred that have dramatically driven down the population in the State’s prison system in the past 18 months. Mr R.F. Johnson: You let them out. Mr J.A. McGINTY: No. The first and most dramatic contributor was the opening of the new privatised Acacia Prison. Just over 700 people were taken out of the government prison system and placed in the new privatised prison. The second thing that occurred is that we consciously - and I might say with some pride - took action to take the minor offenders out of the prisons. At the moment we have legislation before the Parliament to abolish sentences of less than six months. The simple proposition is that, generally speaking, a person who gets a sentence of less than six months is not a serious criminal who poses a great threat to the community. If that were the case, that person should get a longer sentence than that. Therefore, 400 prisoners who were minor offenders and should not have been in prison in the first place were taken out of the prison population, and 700 prisoners went to the privatised prison. Effectively, the state prison population dropped by 33 per cent. Throughout the State we have now closed wings of prisons and two prisons - Pardelup Prison Farm and Riverbank Prison. We are now considering taking advantage of the - Ms S.E. Walker interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: Here comes the virago from Nedlands. As a result of those two things happening, we are now seeking to use the excess bed capacity that currently exists in the prison system to accommodate people from one prison. That will effect savings to the order of $3 million to $4 million a year. Consideration is being given to the four prisons that were mentioned by the member for Mitchell. The previous Government regarded it as a sign of its success that it was locking up more and more people. I regard it as a sign of its failure.
Several members interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: I will repeat that when members opposite are quiet. Forty-five per cent of all people who are released from prison are convicted and put back into prison within a two-year period for having committed a sufficiently serious offence. A term of imprisonment may well serve a valuable punitive role for the individuals who go into prison, but it does not serve a role in preventing people from committing offences. In fact, the argument in Western Australia is that putting minor offenders in jail exposes them to the hardened criminal elements and they are more likely to re-offend. During 1998 there was a dramatic response to the policies of the previous Government under which there was approximately a 40 per cent increase in that one year in the number of people who were imprisoned. Those members who were in the Cabinet of the previous Government know what pressures that put on the allocation of financial resources. In the five years prior to the state election in 2001, expenditure on prisons in Western Australia increased by a massive 75 per cent. Money was taken out of other areas such as education, hospitals and policing in order to lock up people. Western Australians are no more criminal than are people anywhere else in the country. Therefore, why is Western Australia locking up its citizens in disproportionate numbers? When people commit offences they should be punished. Any rational debate on this issue would point to the fact that it is better to deal with minor offenders, when there is no real threat to the community, by punishing them in the community and reserving prison for the most serious offenders. Two things have occurred that have dramatically driven down the population in the State’s prison system in the past 18 months. Mr R.F. Johnson: You let them out. Mr J.A. McGINTY: No. The first and most dramatic contributor was the opening of the new privatised Acacia Prison. Just over 700 people were taken out of the government prison system and placed in the new privatised prison. The second thing that occurred is that we consciously - and I might say with some pride - took action to take the minor offenders out of the prisons. At the moment we have legislation before the Parliament to abolish sentences of less than six months. The simple proposition is that, generally speaking, a person who gets a sentence of less than six months is not a serious criminal who poses a great threat to the community. If that were the case, that person should get a longer sentence than that. Therefore, 400 prisoners who were minor offenders and should not have been in prison in the first place were taken out of the prison population, and 700 prisoners went to the privatised prison. Effectively, the state prison population dropped by 33 per cent. Throughout the State we have now closed wings of prisons and two prisons - Pardelup Prison Farm and Riverbank Prison. We are now considering taking advantage of the - Ms S.E. Walker interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: Here comes the virago from Nedlands. As a result of those two things happening, we are now seeking to use the excess bed capacity that currently exists in the prison system to accommodate people from one prison. That will effect savings to the order of $3 million to $4 million a year. Consideration is being given to the four prisons that were mentioned by the member for Mitchell. The previous Government regarded it as a sign of its success that it was locking up more and more people. I regard it as a sign of its failure.
Mr J.A. McGINTY: I will repeat that when members opposite are quiet. Forty-five per cent of all people who are released from prison are convicted and put back into prison within a two-year period for having committed a sufficiently serious offence. A term of imprisonment may well serve a valuable punitive role for the individuals who go into prison, but it does not serve a role in preventing people from committing offences. In fact, the argument in Western Australia is that putting minor offenders in jail exposes them to the hardened criminal elements and they are more likely to re-offend. During 1998 there was a dramatic response to the policies of the previous Government under which there was approximately a 40 per cent increase in that one year in the number of people who were imprisoned. Those members who were in the Cabinet of the previous Government know what pressures that put on the allocation of financial resources. In the five years prior to the state election in 2001, expenditure on prisons in Western Australia increased by a massive 75 per cent. Money was taken out of other areas such as education, hospitals and policing in order to lock up people. Western Australians are no more criminal than are people anywhere else in the country. Therefore, why is Western Australia locking up its citizens in disproportionate numbers? When people commit offences they should be punished. Any rational debate on this issue would point to the fact that it is better to deal with minor offenders, when there is no real threat to the community, by punishing them in the community and reserving prison for the most serious offenders. Two things have occurred that have dramatically driven down the population in the State’s prison system in the past 18 months. Mr R.F. Johnson: You let them out. Mr J.A. McGINTY: No. The first and most dramatic contributor was the opening of the new privatised Acacia Prison. Just over 700 people were taken out of the government prison system and placed in the new privatised prison. The second thing that occurred is that we consciously - and I might say with some pride - took action to take the minor offenders out of the prisons. At the moment we have legislation before the Parliament to abolish sentences of less than six months. The simple proposition is that, generally speaking, a person who gets a sentence of less than six months is not a serious criminal who poses a great threat to the community. If that were the case, that person should get a longer sentence than that. Therefore, 400 prisoners who were minor offenders and should not have been in prison in the first place were taken out of the prison population, and 700 prisoners went to the privatised prison. Effectively, the state prison population dropped by 33 per cent. Throughout the State we have now closed wings of prisons and two prisons - Pardelup Prison Farm and Riverbank Prison. We are now considering taking advantage of the - Ms S.E. Walker interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: Here comes the virago from Nedlands. As a result of those two things happening, we are now seeking to use the excess bed capacity that currently exists in the prison system to accommodate people from one prison. That will effect savings to the order of $3 million to $4 million a year. Consideration is being given to the four prisons that were mentioned by the member for Mitchell. The previous Government regarded it as a sign of its success that it was locking up more and more people. I regard it as a sign of its failure.
During 1998 there was a dramatic response to the policies of the previous Government under which there was approximately a 40 per cent increase in that one year in the number of people who were imprisoned. Those members who were in the Cabinet of the previous Government know what pressures that put on the allocation of financial resources. In the five years prior to the state election in 2001, expenditure on prisons in Western Australia increased by a massive 75 per cent. Money was taken out of other areas such as education, hospitals and policing in order to lock up people. Western Australians are no more criminal than are people anywhere else in the country. Therefore, why is Western Australia locking up its citizens in disproportionate numbers? When people commit offences they should be punished. Any rational debate on this issue would point to the fact that it is better to deal with minor offenders, when there is no real threat to the community, by punishing them in the community and reserving prison for the most serious offenders. Two things have occurred that have dramatically driven down the population in the State’s prison system in the past 18 months. Mr R.F. Johnson: You let them out. Mr J.A. McGINTY: No. The first and most dramatic contributor was the opening of the new privatised Acacia Prison. Just over 700 people were taken out of the government prison system and placed in the new privatised prison. The second thing that occurred is that we consciously - and I might say with some pride - took action to take the minor offenders out of the prisons. At the moment we have legislation before the Parliament to abolish sentences of less than six months. The simple proposition is that, generally speaking, a person who gets a sentence of less than six months is not a serious criminal who poses a great threat to the community. If that were the case, that person should get a longer sentence than that. Therefore, 400 prisoners who were minor offenders and should not have been in prison in the first place were taken out of the prison population, and 700 prisoners went to the privatised prison. Effectively, the state prison population dropped by 33 per cent. Throughout the State we have now closed wings of prisons and two prisons - Pardelup Prison Farm and Riverbank Prison. We are now considering taking advantage of the - Ms S.E. Walker interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: Here comes the virago from Nedlands. As a result of those two things happening, we are now seeking to use the excess bed capacity that currently exists in the prison system to accommodate people from one prison. That will effect savings to the order of $3 million to $4 million a year. Consideration is being given to the four prisons that were mentioned by the member for Mitchell. The previous Government regarded it as a sign of its success that it was locking up more and more people. I regard it as a sign of its failure.
Western Australians are no more criminal than are people anywhere else in the country. Therefore, why is Western Australia locking up its citizens in disproportionate numbers? When people commit offences they should be punished. Any rational debate on this issue would point to the fact that it is better to deal with minor offenders, when there is no real threat to the community, by punishing them in the community and reserving prison for the most serious offenders. Two things have occurred that have dramatically driven down the population in the State’s prison system in the past 18 months. Mr R.F. Johnson: You let them out. Mr J.A. McGINTY: No. The first and most dramatic contributor was the opening of the new privatised Acacia Prison. Just over 700 people were taken out of the government prison system and placed in the new privatised prison. The second thing that occurred is that we consciously - and I might say with some pride - took action to take the minor offenders out of the prisons. At the moment we have legislation before the Parliament to abolish sentences of less than six months. The simple proposition is that, generally speaking, a person who gets a sentence of less than six months is not a serious criminal who poses a great threat to the community. If that were the case, that person should get a longer sentence than that. Therefore, 400 prisoners who were minor offenders and should not have been in prison in the first place were taken out of the prison population, and 700 prisoners went to the privatised prison. Effectively, the state prison population dropped by 33 per cent. Throughout the State we have now closed wings of prisons and two prisons - Pardelup Prison Farm and Riverbank Prison. We are now considering taking advantage of the - Ms S.E. Walker interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: Here comes the virago from Nedlands. As a result of those two things happening, we are now seeking to use the excess bed capacity that currently exists in the prison system to accommodate people from one prison. That will effect savings to the order of $3 million to $4 million a year. Consideration is being given to the four prisons that were mentioned by the member for Mitchell. The previous Government regarded it as a sign of its success that it was locking up more and more people. I regard it as a sign of its failure.
Two things have occurred that have dramatically driven down the population in the State’s prison system in the past 18 months. Mr R.F. Johnson: You let them out. Mr J.A. McGINTY: No. The first and most dramatic contributor was the opening of the new privatised Acacia Prison. Just over 700 people were taken out of the government prison system and placed in the new privatised prison. The second thing that occurred is that we consciously - and I might say with some pride - took action to take the minor offenders out of the prisons. At the moment we have legislation before the Parliament to abolish sentences of less than six months. The simple proposition is that, generally speaking, a person who gets a sentence of less than six months is not a serious criminal who poses a great threat to the community. If that were the case, that person should get a longer sentence than that. Therefore, 400 prisoners who were minor offenders and should not have been in prison in the first place were taken out of the prison population, and 700 prisoners went to the privatised prison. Effectively, the state prison population dropped by 33 per cent. Throughout the State we have now closed wings of prisons and two prisons - Pardelup Prison Farm and Riverbank Prison. We are now considering taking advantage of the - Ms S.E. Walker interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: Here comes the virago from Nedlands. As a result of those two things happening, we are now seeking to use the excess bed capacity that currently exists in the prison system to accommodate people from one prison. That will effect savings to the order of $3 million to $4 million a year. Consideration is being given to the four prisons that were mentioned by the member for Mitchell. The previous Government regarded it as a sign of its success that it was locking up more and more people. I regard it as a sign of its failure.
Mr R.F. Johnson: You let them out. Mr J.A. McGINTY: No. The first and most dramatic contributor was the opening of the new privatised Acacia Prison. Just over 700 people were taken out of the government prison system and placed in the new privatised prison. The second thing that occurred is that we consciously - and I might say with some pride - took action to take the minor offenders out of the prisons. At the moment we have legislation before the Parliament to abolish sentences of less than six months. The simple proposition is that, generally speaking, a person who gets a sentence of less than six months is not a serious criminal who poses a great threat to the community. If that were the case, that person should get a longer sentence than that. Therefore, 400 prisoners who were minor offenders and should not have been in prison in the first place were taken out of the prison population, and 700 prisoners went to the privatised prison. Effectively, the state prison population dropped by 33 per cent. Throughout the State we have now closed wings of prisons and two prisons - Pardelup Prison Farm and Riverbank Prison. We are now considering taking advantage of the - Ms S.E. Walker interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: Here comes the virago from Nedlands. As a result of those two things happening, we are now seeking to use the excess bed capacity that currently exists in the prison system to accommodate people from one prison. That will effect savings to the order of $3 million to $4 million a year. Consideration is being given to the four prisons that were mentioned by the member for Mitchell. The previous Government regarded it as a sign of its success that it was locking up more and more people. I regard it as a sign of its failure.
Mr J.A. McGINTY: No. The first and most dramatic contributor was the opening of the new privatised Acacia Prison. Just over 700 people were taken out of the government prison system and placed in the new privatised prison. The second thing that occurred is that we consciously - and I might say with some pride - took action to take the minor offenders out of the prisons. At the moment we have legislation before the Parliament to abolish sentences of less than six months. The simple proposition is that, generally speaking, a person who gets a sentence of less than six months is not a serious criminal who poses a great threat to the community. If that were the case, that person should get a longer sentence than that. Therefore, 400 prisoners who were minor offenders and should not have been in prison in the first place were taken out of the prison population, and 700 prisoners went to the privatised prison. Effectively, the state prison population dropped by 33 per cent. Throughout the State we have now closed wings of prisons and two prisons - Pardelup Prison Farm and Riverbank Prison. We are now considering taking advantage of the - Ms S.E. Walker interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: Here comes the virago from Nedlands. As a result of those two things happening, we are now seeking to use the excess bed capacity that currently exists in the prison system to accommodate people from one prison. That will effect savings to the order of $3 million to $4 million a year. Consideration is being given to the four prisons that were mentioned by the member for Mitchell. The previous Government regarded it as a sign of its success that it was locking up more and more people. I regard it as a sign of its failure.
Ms S.E. Walker interjected. Mr J.A. McGINTY: Here comes the virago from Nedlands. As a result of those two things happening, we are now seeking to use the excess bed capacity that currently exists in the prison system to accommodate people from one prison. That will effect savings to the order of $3 million to $4 million a year. Consideration is being given to the four prisons that were mentioned by the member for Mitchell. The previous Government regarded it as a sign of its success that it was locking up more and more people. I regard it as a sign of its failure.
Mr J.A. McGINTY: Here comes the virago from Nedlands. As a result of those two things happening, we are now seeking to use the excess bed capacity that currently exists in the prison system to accommodate people from one prison. That will effect savings to the order of $3 million to $4 million a year. Consideration is being given to the four prisons that were mentioned by the member for Mitchell. The previous Government regarded it as a sign of its success that it was locking up more and more people. I regard it as a sign of its failure.
The previous Government regarded it as a sign of its success that it was locking up more and more people. I regard it as a sign of its failure.
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