❓ Ms Walker questions budget cuts and potential job losses in prisons, citing unsafe conditions. Mr McGinty responds by highlighting a decrease in the prison population and the end of short-term contracts, defending staffing adjustments as economically responsible.
AnsweredQoN 1040Legislative Assembly
QuestionView source ↗
I refer the minister to an article in The West Australian on Monday this week in which the state secretary of the Western Australia Prison Officers Union of Workers stated that budget cuts had resulted in unsafe working conditions, and ask - (1) Will the minister confirm that the Department of Justice prison operations budget has been cut by up to $2.5 million? (2) Will the minister confirm that up to 92 prison officers are set to lose their jobs? (3) Is this reduction in the number of prison officers an indication that more convicted criminals are being released onto our streets, or is the minister under-resourcing our prisons? Mr McGINTY
AnswerView source ↗
(1)-(3) I thank the member for Nedlands for the opportunity to explain to the House something very important that is happening in our prison system. During the course of the past year there has been a reduction of one-third in the number of people in the State’s prisons. That number has come down from a peak during last year under the previous Government of approximately 3 200 prisoners in the State’s prisons to approximately 2 000. Ms Sue Walker interjected. Mr McGINTY: It is approximately 1 000. The member did not give me any notice of the question. I am doing my best to provide the best figures I can recollect. Last week, for instance, the prison population in the government prisons in Western Australia, in all prisons, including Acacia Prison - the privatised prison - was just under 2 800. Approximately 700 prisoners - and excuse me for not having the exact figure, but it is something of that order - have been transferred out of the government system into the private prison, Acacia, during the past 12 months, and that is now coming to an end. A combination of two things has applied. The first is the success of the Government’s move to get minor offenders - such as people convicted for motor vehicle offences such as driving without a motor vehicle licence - punished in the community rather than locked up in jail. That move has resulted in a reduction of approximately 400 people from the prison population in toto, and they are now being punished appropriately in the community. The second reason is the shift of prisoners out of the government prison system into the private prison system, which was an initiative of the previous Government. If those two figures are added together, almost 700 people have gone to the private system, and there has been a reduction of approximately 400 people out of the total prison population. We have approximately 1 000 fewer people in the prison system. It would be economically irresponsible to maintain staffing in the prison system at levels that were designed to cater for 3 000 prisoners when we have only 2 000 prisoners in the government prison system. That would be the height of economic irresponsibility. One of the things the previous Government did prior to losing the election - Ms Sue Walker interjected. Mr McGINTY: I will make this point to the member, because she will be very interested in this. I will not sit down until I have answered all the member’s questions. One of the things the previous Government did when it was in power was to employ - Ms Sue Walker interjected. Mr McGINTY: Just listen. Ms Sue Walker: I am trying to get an answer. Government members: Bleat, bleat! The SPEAKER: Order, members! Mr McGINTY: The member is getting an answer. One of the things the previous Government did was to engage prison officers on short-term contracts, for three years, to deal with the very problem that caused the new prison to be built at Acacia, and that was an explosion in the prison population under that Government which necessitated prison officers being employed on short-term contracts while the new private prison was being built, in the knowledge that prisoners would then be transferred out of the state prison system into the privatised prison. The previous Government set up a short-term contract arrangement. Those contracts are now coming to an end at a time when the prison population in government prisons is falling. What does the member want us to do - keep them employed? Ms Sue Walker: Will you answer the question? Mr McGINTY: The answer is no, we will not do that, because we will employ the number of prison officers that are necessary to run safe prisons in this State. We are doing that as these contracts are expiring. In the first round - about three months ago - approximately 50 prison officers out of 70 whose contracts were to expire were offered permanent employment. The most recent round, which occurred about two weeks ago - Ms Sue Walker interjected. Mr McGINTY: The member for Nedlands should listen. She will be better informed if she does. Ms Sue Walker interjected. Mr McGINTY: The member will be better informed, because she is obviously not aware of the background to this matter. It is important that she understand it. Ms Sue Walker: You cannot tell me how many prisoners are in the prison system. Mr McGINTY: Yes, I can. Ms Sue Walker: No, you can’t. Mr McGINTY: I have already provided that information. The number varies on a daily, or even an hourly, basis. The member for Nedlands will discover that as she gets a bit more experience in dealing with these matters. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER: Members! Mr McGINTY: As those contracts were expiring, contracts were also expiring for the second batch of 70 contract prison officers who were engaged by the previous Government on a short-term basis to deal with the peak in the prison population. This Government has given those prison officers advance notice that approximately 20 of those 70 officers will be kept, and that the rest will be surplus to requirements. The three-year contracts of a further 70 prison officers will terminate next year. Ms Sue Walker: Have you told them that they have lost their jobs? Mr McGINTY: Told whom? Ms Sue Walker: The 70 prison officers. Mr McGINTY: The next lot? Ms Sue Walker: The 70 prison officers. Mr McGINTY: Of course not. An assessment will need to be made next year about the number of prison officers who will be required in the light of the prison population at that time. Why on earth would the Government tell people that something will happen to them next year when we do not know the basis upon which that decision will be made? That might have been the way in which the member for Nedlands wanted to run the show, but we will employ the appropriate number of prison officers for the prison population. There has been a dramatic fall of about 1 000 people in the state prison population. The Government will not maintain the same number of prison officers that was employed to look after 3 000 prisoners - Ms Sue Walker: Is that figure accurate? The SPEAKER: Order, member for Nedlands! Mr McGINTY: I ask the member for Nedlands to zip it. The Government will not maintain prison officers at the level needed to look after 3 000 prisoners when there are only 2 000 in the government prison system. That is crystal clear. Mr Birney: Do you believe that the new DNA legislation will rapidly fill that hole in prison numbers? Mr McGINTY: It will have a significant impact. That is one reason the Government will need to review the next batch of 70 prison officers who are employed on three-year contracts. We will need to consider the impact of the DNA legislation when the Liberal Party eventually passes it through the Legislative Council and gets on with it. Several members interjected. Mr McGINTY: I am pleased to hear that. The member is obviously more up-to-date than I am on that matter. When that legislation comes into effect, I believe that it will have a significant impact on the clear-up rate and will ensure that people who should be in prison for committing serious offences are in prison. That impact will need to be offset against the reduction in the prison population that will occur as a result of the sentencing legislation that the Government will introduce next month. At the moment, the Prison Officers Union, with which I have regular dialogue, wants to maintain staffing levels to cover 3 000 prisoners when there are only 2 000 prisoners in the system. It is irresponsible for anyone to suggest that that is the appropriate level of staffing. The Government is reducing the prison population in this State. At the moment, Western Australia imprisons its citizens at a far higher rate than anywhere else in the country. The previous Government ran the most expensive prison system in Australia as well. All those factors are fluid. They will all have a significant impact. We must take those matters into account. The Government will employ in good jobs the number of prison officers that is needed to run the system. We will not artificially create employment for prison officers who are not needed. The previous Government found that those officers were not needed when it employed them on short-term contracts in the first place. Mr Birney: Are you proud of the fact that the prison population has dramatically reduced under the Labor Party? Mr McGINTY: The yardstick used by members opposite to measure the success of legislation was how many citizens it locked up. I regard that as an absolute admission of failure. No other State or Territory in Australia locks up minor offenders in the numbers or way they are locked up in Western Australia. Those people are more effectively punished outside the prisons. I am pleased that we are getting back to the norm. This Government treats the citizens of this State in a more sensible way. The economic rationalists opposite should consider that it costs $70 000 to keep one prisoner in prison for a year. That is taxpayers’ money that could be spent on schools, hospitals or a raft of other services. The Opposition wants the Government to spend precious dollars on locking up people who do not need to be locked up, because the nature of their offending is minor and they are not punished by imprisonment anywhere else in Australia. That economic irresponsibility on the part of the previous Government is being corrected by this Government. The SPEAKER: Order! Members who are not involved with the next item of business should carry on their conversations outside.
(1) Will the minister confirm that the Department of Justice prison operations budget has been cut by up to $2.5 million? (2) Will the minister confirm that up to 92 prison officers are set to lose their jobs? (3) Is this reduction in the number of prison officers an indication that more convicted criminals are being released onto our streets, or is the minister under-resourcing our prisons? Mr McGINTY replied: (1)-(3) I thank the member for Nedlands for the opportunity to explain to the House something very important that is happening in our prison system. During the course of the past year there has been a reduction of one-third in the number of people in the State’s prisons. That number has come down from a peak during last year under the previous Government of approximately 3 200 prisoners in the State’s prisons to approximately 2 000. Ms Sue Walker interjected. Mr McGINTY: It is approximately 1 000. The member did not give me any notice of the question. I am doing my best to provide the best figures I can recollect. Last week, for instance, the prison population in the government prisons in Western Australia, in all prisons, including Acacia Prison - the privatised prison - was just under 2 800. Approximately 700 prisoners - and excuse me for not having the exact figure, but it is something of that order - have been transferred out of the government system into the private prison, Acacia, during the past 12 months, and that is now coming to an end. A combination of two things has applied. The first is the success of the Government’s move to get minor offenders - such as people convicted for motor vehicle offences such as driving without a motor vehicle licence - punished in the community rather than locked up in jail. That move has resulted in a reduction of approximately 400 people from the prison population in toto, and they are now being punished appropriately in the community. The second reason is the shift of prisoners out of the government prison system into the private prison system, which was an initiative of the previous Government. If those two figures are added together, almost 700 people have gone to the private system, and there has been a reduction of approximately 400 people out of the total prison population. We have approximately 1 000 fewer people in the prison system. It would be economically irresponsible to maintain staffing in the prison system at levels that were designed to cater for 3 000 prisoners when we have only 2 000 prisoners in the government prison system. That would be the height of economic irresponsibility. One of the things the previous Government did prior to losing the election - Ms Sue Walker interjected. Mr McGINTY: I will make this point to the member, because she will be very interested in this. I will not sit down until I have answered all the member’s questions. One of the things the previous Government did when it was in power was to employ - Ms Sue Walker interjected. Mr McGINTY: Just listen. Ms Sue Walker: I am trying to get an answer. Government members: Bleat, bleat! The SPEAKER: Order, members! Mr McGINTY: The member is getting an answer. One of the things the previous Government did was to engage prison officers on short-term contracts, for three years, to deal with the very problem that caused the new prison to be built at Acacia, and that was an explosion in the prison population under that Government which necessitated prison officers being employed on short-term contracts while the new private prison was being built, in the knowledge that prisoners would then be transferred out of the state prison system into the privatised prison. The previous Government set up a short-term contract arrangement. Those contracts are now coming to an end at a time when the prison population in government prisons is falling. What does the member want us to do - keep them employed? Ms Sue Walker: Will you answer the question? Mr McGINTY: The answer is no, we will not do that, because we will employ the number of prison officers that are necessary to run safe prisons in this State. We are doing that as these contracts are expiring. In the first round - about three months ago - approximately 50 prison officers out of 70 whose contracts were to expire were offered permanent employment. The most recent round, which occurred about two weeks ago - Ms Sue Walker interjected. Mr McGINTY: The member for Nedlands should listen. She will be better informed if she does. Ms Sue Walker interjected. Mr McGINTY: The member will be better informed, because she is obviously not aware of the background to this matter. It is important that she understand it. Ms Sue Walker: You cannot tell me how many prisoners are in the prison system. Mr McGINTY: Yes, I can. Ms Sue Walker: No, you can’t. Mr McGINTY: I have already provided that information. The number varies on a daily, or even an hourly, basis. The member for Nedlands will discover that as she gets a bit more experience in dealing with these matters. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER: Members! Mr McGINTY: As those contracts were expiring, contracts were also expiring for the second batch of 70 contract prison officers who were engaged by the previous Government on a short-term basis to deal with the peak in the prison population. This Government has given those prison officers advance notice that approximately 20 of those 70 officers will be kept, and that the rest will be surplus to requirements. The three-year contracts of a further 70 prison officers will terminate next year. Ms Sue Walker: Have you told them that they have lost their jobs? Mr McGINTY: Told whom? Ms Sue Walker: The 70 prison officers. Mr McGINTY: The next lot? Ms Sue Walker: The 70 prison officers. Mr McGINTY: Of course not. An assessment will need to be made next year about the number of prison officers who will be required in the light of the prison population at that time. Why on earth would the Government tell people that something will happen to them next year when we do not know the basis upon which that decision will be made? That might have been the way in which the member for Nedlands wanted to run the show, but we will employ the appropriate number of prison officers for the prison population. There has been a dramatic fall of about 1 000 people in the state prison population. The Government will not maintain the same number of prison officers that was employed to look after 3 000 prisoners - Ms Sue Walker: Is that figure accurate? The SPEAKER: Order, member for Nedlands! Mr McGINTY: I ask the member for Nedlands to zip it. The Government will not maintain prison officers at the level needed to look after 3 000 prisoners when there are only 2 000 in the government prison system. That is crystal clear. Mr Birney: Do you believe that the new DNA legislation will rapidly fill that hole in prison numbers? Mr McGINTY: It will have a significant impact. That is one reason the Government will need to review the next batch of 70 prison officers who are employed on three-year contracts. We will need to consider the impact of the DNA legislation when the Liberal Party eventually passes it through the Legislative Council and gets on with it. Several members interjected. Mr McGINTY: I am pleased to hear that. The member is obviously more up-to-date than I am on that matter. When that legislation comes into effect, I believe that it will have a significant impact on the clear-up rate and will ensure that people who should be in prison for committing serious offences are in prison. That impact will need to be offset against the reduction in the prison population that will occur as a result of the sentencing legislation that the Government will introduce next month. At the moment, the Prison Officers Union, with which I have regular dialogue, wants to maintain staffing levels to cover 3 000 prisoners when there are only 2 000 prisoners in the system. It is irresponsible for anyone to suggest that that is the appropriate level of staffing. The Government is reducing the prison population in this State. At the moment, Western Australia imprisons its citizens at a far higher rate than anywhere else in the country. The previous Government ran the most expensive prison system in Australia as well. All those factors are fluid. They will all have a significant impact. We must take those matters into account. The Government will employ in good jobs the number of prison officers that is needed to run the system. We will not artificially create employment for prison officers who are not needed. The previous Government found that those officers were not needed when it employed them on short-term contracts in the first place. Mr Birney: Are you proud of the fact that the prison population has dramatically reduced under the Labor Party? Mr McGINTY: The yardstick used by members opposite to measure the success of legislation was how many citizens it locked up. I regard that as an absolute admission of failure. No other State or Territory in Australia locks up minor offenders in the numbers or way they are locked up in Western Australia. Those people are more effectively punished outside the prisons. I am pleased that we are getting back to the norm. This Government treats the citizens of this State in a more sensible way. The economic rationalists opposite should consider that it costs $70 000 to keep one prisoner in prison for a year. That is taxpayers’ money that could be spent on schools, hospitals or a raft of other services. The Opposition wants the Government to spend precious dollars on locking up people who do not need to be locked up, because the nature of their offending is minor and they are not punished by imprisonment anywhere else in Australia. That economic irresponsibility on the part of the previous Government is being corrected by this Government. The SPEAKER: Order! Members who are not involved with the next item of business should carry on their conversations outside.
(2) Will the minister confirm that up to 92 prison officers are set to lose their jobs? (3) Is this reduction in the number of prison officers an indication that more convicted criminals are being released onto our streets, or is the minister under-resourcing our prisons? Mr McGINTY replied: (1)-(3) I thank the member for Nedlands for the opportunity to explain to the House something very important that is happening in our prison system. During the course of the past year there has been a reduction of one-third in the number of people in the State’s prisons. That number has come down from a peak during last year under the previous Government of approximately 3 200 prisoners in the State’s prisons to approximately 2 000. Ms Sue Walker interjected. Mr McGINTY: It is approximately 1 000. The member did not give me any notice of the question. I am doing my best to provide the best figures I can recollect. Last week, for instance, the prison population in the government prisons in Western Australia, in all prisons, including Acacia Prison - the privatised prison - was just under 2 800. Approximately 700 prisoners - and excuse me for not having the exact figure, but it is something of that order - have been transferred out of the government system into the private prison, Acacia, during the past 12 months, and that is now coming to an end. A combination of two things has applied. The first is the success of the Government’s move to get minor offenders - such as people convicted for motor vehicle offences such as driving without a motor vehicle licence - punished in the community rather than locked up in jail. That move has resulted in a reduction of approximately 400 people from the prison population in toto, and they are now being punished appropriately in the community. The second reason is the shift of prisoners out of the government prison system into the private prison system, which was an initiative of the previous Government. If those two figures are added together, almost 700 people have gone to the private system, and there has been a reduction of approximately 400 people out of the total prison population. We have approximately 1 000 fewer people in the prison system. It would be economically irresponsible to maintain staffing in the prison system at levels that were designed to cater for 3 000 prisoners when we have only 2 000 prisoners in the government prison system. That would be the height of economic irresponsibility. One of the things the previous Government did prior to losing the election - Ms Sue Walker interjected. Mr McGINTY: I will make this point to the member, because she will be very interested in this. I will not sit down until I have answered all the member’s questions. One of the things the previous Government did when it was in power was to employ - Ms Sue Walker interjected. Mr McGINTY: Just listen. Ms Sue Walker: I am trying to get an answer. Government members: Bleat, bleat! The SPEAKER: Order, members! Mr McGINTY: The member is getting an answer. One of the things the previous Government did was to engage prison officers on short-term contracts, for three years, to deal with the very problem that caused the new prison to be built at Acacia, and that was an explosion in the prison population under that Government which necessitated prison officers being employed on short-term contracts while the new private prison was being built, in the knowledge that prisoners would then be transferred out of the state prison system into the privatised prison. The previous Government set up a short-term contract arrangement. Those contracts are now coming to an end at a time when the prison population in government prisons is falling. What does the member want us to do - keep them employed? Ms Sue Walker: Will you answer the question? Mr McGINTY: The answer is no, we will not do that, because we will employ the number of prison officers that are necessary to run safe prisons in this State. We are doing that as these contracts are expiring. In the first round - about three months ago - approximately 50 prison officers out of 70 whose contracts were to expire were offered permanent employment. The most recent round, which occurred about two weeks ago - Ms Sue Walker interjected. Mr McGINTY: The member for Nedlands should listen. She will be better informed if she does. Ms Sue Walker interjected. Mr McGINTY: The member will be better informed, because she is obviously not aware of the background to this matter. It is important that she understand it. Ms Sue Walker: You cannot tell me how many prisoners are in the prison system. Mr McGINTY: Yes, I can. Ms Sue Walker: No, you can’t. Mr McGINTY: I have already provided that information. The number varies on a daily, or even an hourly, basis. The member for Nedlands will discover that as she gets a bit more experience in dealing with these matters. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER: Members! Mr McGINTY: As those contracts were expiring, contracts were also expiring for the second batch of 70 contract prison officers who were engaged by the previous Government on a short-term basis to deal with the peak in the prison population. This Government has given those prison officers advance notice that approximately 20 of those 70 officers will be kept, and that the rest will be surplus to requirements. The three-year contracts of a further 70 prison officers will terminate next year. Ms Sue Walker: Have you told them that they have lost their jobs? Mr McGINTY: Told whom? Ms Sue Walker: The 70 prison officers. Mr McGINTY: The next lot? Ms Sue Walker: The 70 prison officers. Mr McGINTY: Of course not. An assessment will need to be made next year about the number of prison officers who will be required in the light of the prison population at that time. Why on earth would the Government tell people that something will happen to them next year when we do not know the basis upon which that decision will be made? That might have been the way in which the member for Nedlands wanted to run the show, but we will employ the appropriate number of prison officers for the prison population. There has been a dramatic fall of about 1 000 people in the state prison population. The Government will not maintain the same number of prison officers that was employed to look after 3 000 prisoners - Ms Sue Walker: Is that figure accurate? The SPEAKER: Order, member for Nedlands! Mr McGINTY: I ask the member for Nedlands to zip it. The Government will not maintain prison officers at the level needed to look after 3 000 prisoners when there are only 2 000 in the government prison system. That is crystal clear. Mr Birney: Do you believe that the new DNA legislation will rapidly fill that hole in prison numbers? Mr McGINTY: It will have a significant impact. That is one reason the Government will need to review the next batch of 70 prison officers who are employed on three-year contracts. We will need to consider the impact of the DNA legislation when the Liberal Party eventually passes it through the Legislative Council and gets on with it. Several members interjected. Mr McGINTY: I am pleased to hear that. The member is obviously more up-to-date than I am on that matter. When that legislation comes into effect, I believe that it will have a significant impact on the clear-up rate and will ensure that people who should be in prison for committing serious offences are in prison. That impact will need to be offset against the reduction in the prison population that will occur as a result of the sentencing legislation that the Government will introduce next month. At the moment, the Prison Officers Union, with which I have regular dialogue, wants to maintain staffing levels to cover 3 000 prisoners when there are only 2 000 prisoners in the system. It is irresponsible for anyone to suggest that that is the appropriate level of staffing. The Government is reducing the prison population in this State. At the moment, Western Australia imprisons its citizens at a far higher rate than anywhere else in the country. The previous Government ran the most expensive prison system in Australia as well. All those factors are fluid. They will all have a significant impact. We must take those matters into account. The Government will employ in good jobs the number of prison officers that is needed to run the system. We will not artificially create employment for prison officers who are not needed. The previous Government found that those officers were not needed when it employed them on short-term contracts in the first place. Mr Birney: Are you proud of the fact that the prison population has dramatically reduced under the Labor Party? Mr McGINTY: The yardstick used by members opposite to measure the success of legislation was how many citizens it locked up. I regard that as an absolute admission of failure. No other State or Territory in Australia locks up minor offenders in the numbers or way they are locked up in Western Australia. Those people are more effectively punished outside the prisons. I am pleased that we are getting back to the norm. This Government treats the citizens of this State in a more sensible way. The economic rationalists opposite should consider that it costs $70 000 to keep one prisoner in prison for a year. That is taxpayers’ money that could be spent on schools, hospitals or a raft of other services. The Opposition wants the Government to spend precious dollars on locking up people who do not need to be locked up, because the nature of their offending is minor and they are not punished by imprisonment anywhere else in Australia. That economic irresponsibility on the part of the previous Government is being corrected by this Government. The SPEAKER: Order! Members who are not involved with the next item of business should carry on their conversations outside.
(3) Is this reduction in the number of prison officers an indication that more convicted criminals are being released onto our streets, or is the minister under-resourcing our prisons? Mr McGINTY replied: (1)-(3) I thank the member for Nedlands for the opportunity to explain to the House something very important that is happening in our prison system. During the course of the past year there has been a reduction of one-third in the number of people in the State’s prisons. That number has come down from a peak during last year under the previous Government of approximately 3 200 prisoners in the State’s prisons to approximately 2 000. Ms Sue Walker interjected. Mr McGINTY: It is approximately 1 000. The member did not give me any notice of the question. I am doing my best to provide the best figures I can recollect. Last week, for instance, the prison population in the government prisons in Western Australia, in all prisons, including Acacia Prison - the privatised prison - was just under 2 800. Approximately 700 prisoners - and excuse me for not having the exact figure, but it is something of that order - have been transferred out of the government system into the private prison, Acacia, during the past 12 months, and that is now coming to an end. A combination of two things has applied. The first is the success of the Government’s move to get minor offenders - such as people convicted for motor vehicle offences such as driving without a motor vehicle licence - punished in the community rather than locked up in jail. That move has resulted in a reduction of approximately 400 people from the prison population in toto, and they are now being punished appropriately in the community. The second reason is the shift of prisoners out of the government prison system into the private prison system, which was an initiative of the previous Government. If those two figures are added together, almost 700 people have gone to the private system, and there has been a reduction of approximately 400 people out of the total prison population. We have approximately 1 000 fewer people in the prison system. It would be economically irresponsible to maintain staffing in the prison system at levels that were designed to cater for 3 000 prisoners when we have only 2 000 prisoners in the government prison system. That would be the height of economic irresponsibility. One of the things the previous Government did prior to losing the election - Ms Sue Walker interjected. Mr McGINTY: I will make this point to the member, because she will be very interested in this. I will not sit down until I have answered all the member’s questions. One of the things the previous Government did when it was in power was to employ - Ms Sue Walker interjected. Mr McGINTY: Just listen. Ms Sue Walker: I am trying to get an answer. Government members: Bleat, bleat! The SPEAKER: Order, members! Mr McGINTY: The member is getting an answer. One of the things the previous Government did was to engage prison officers on short-term contracts, for three years, to deal with the very problem that caused the new prison to be built at Acacia, and that was an explosion in the prison population under that Government which necessitated prison officers being employed on short-term contracts while the new private prison was being built, in the knowledge that prisoners would then be transferred out of the state prison system into the privatised prison. The previous Government set up a short-term contract arrangement. Those contracts are now coming to an end at a time when the prison population in government prisons is falling. What does the member want us to do - keep them employed? Ms Sue Walker: Will you answer the question? Mr McGINTY: The answer is no, we will not do that, because we will employ the number of prison officers that are necessary to run safe prisons in this State. We are doing that as these contracts are expiring. In the first round - about three months ago - approximately 50 prison officers out of 70 whose contracts were to expire were offered permanent employment. The most recent round, which occurred about two weeks ago - Ms Sue Walker interjected. Mr McGINTY: The member for Nedlands should listen. She will be better informed if she does. Ms Sue Walker interjected. Mr McGINTY: The member will be better informed, because she is obviously not aware of the background to this matter. It is important that she understand it. Ms Sue Walker: You cannot tell me how many prisoners are in the prison system. Mr McGINTY: Yes, I can. Ms Sue Walker: No, you can’t. Mr McGINTY: I have already provided that information. The number varies on a daily, or even an hourly, basis. The member for Nedlands will discover that as she gets a bit more experience in dealing with these matters. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER: Members! Mr McGINTY: As those contracts were expiring, contracts were also expiring for the second batch of 70 contract prison officers who were engaged by the previous Government on a short-term basis to deal with the peak in the prison population. This Government has given those prison officers advance notice that approximately 20 of those 70 officers will be kept, and that the rest will be surplus to requirements. The three-year contracts of a further 70 prison officers will terminate next year. Ms Sue Walker: Have you told them that they have lost their jobs? Mr McGINTY: Told whom? Ms Sue Walker: The 70 prison officers. Mr McGINTY: The next lot? Ms Sue Walker: The 70 prison officers. Mr McGINTY: Of course not. An assessment will need to be made next year about the number of prison officers who will be required in the light of the prison population at that time. Why on earth would the Government tell people that something will happen to them next year when we do not know the basis upon which that decision will be made? That might have been the way in which the member for Nedlands wanted to run the show, but we will employ the appropriate number of prison officers for the prison population. There has been a dramatic fall of about 1 000 people in the state prison population. The Government will not maintain the same number of prison officers that was employed to look after 3 000 prisoners - Ms Sue Walker: Is that figure accurate? The SPEAKER: Order, member for Nedlands! Mr McGINTY: I ask the member for Nedlands to zip it. The Government will not maintain prison officers at the level needed to look after 3 000 prisoners when there are only 2 000 in the government prison system. That is crystal clear. Mr Birney: Do you believe that the new DNA legislation will rapidly fill that hole in prison numbers? Mr McGINTY: It will have a significant impact. That is one reason the Government will need to review the next batch of 70 prison officers who are employed on three-year contracts. We will need to consider the impact of the DNA legislation when the Liberal Party eventually passes it through the Legislative Council and gets on with it. Several members interjected. Mr McGINTY: I am pleased to hear that. The member is obviously more up-to-date than I am on that matter. When that legislation comes into effect, I believe that it will have a significant impact on the clear-up rate and will ensure that people who should be in prison for committing serious offences are in prison. That impact will need to be offset against the reduction in the prison population that will occur as a result of the sentencing legislation that the Government will introduce next month. At the moment, the Prison Officers Union, with which I have regular dialogue, wants to maintain staffing levels to cover 3 000 prisoners when there are only 2 000 prisoners in the system. It is irresponsible for anyone to suggest that that is the appropriate level of staffing. The Government is reducing the prison population in this State. At the moment, Western Australia imprisons its citizens at a far higher rate than anywhere else in the country. The previous Government ran the most expensive prison system in Australia as well. All those factors are fluid. They will all have a significant impact. We must take those matters into account. The Government will employ in good jobs the number of prison officers that is needed to run the system. We will not artificially create employment for prison officers who are not needed. The previous Government found that those officers were not needed when it employed them on short-term contracts in the first place. Mr Birney: Are you proud of the fact that the prison population has dramatically reduced under the Labor Party? Mr McGINTY: The yardstick used by members opposite to measure the success of legislation was how many citizens it locked up. I regard that as an absolute admission of failure. No other State or Territory in Australia locks up minor offenders in the numbers or way they are locked up in Western Australia. Those people are more effectively punished outside the prisons. I am pleased that we are getting back to the norm. This Government treats the citizens of this State in a more sensible way. The economic rationalists opposite should consider that it costs $70 000 to keep one prisoner in prison for a year. That is taxpayers’ money that could be spent on schools, hospitals or a raft of other services. The Opposition wants the Government to spend precious dollars on locking up people who do not need to be locked up, because the nature of their offending is minor and they are not punished by imprisonment anywhere else in Australia. That economic irresponsibility on the part of the previous Government is being corrected by this Government. The SPEAKER: Order! Members who are not involved with the next item of business should carry on their conversations outside.
Mr McGINTY replied: (1)-(3) I thank the member for Nedlands for the opportunity to explain to the House something very important that is happening in our prison system. During the course of the past year there has been a reduction of one-third in the number of people in the State’s prisons. That number has come down from a peak during last year under the previous Government of approximately 3 200 prisoners in the State’s prisons to approximately 2 000. Ms Sue Walker interjected. Mr McGINTY: It is approximately 1 000. The member did not give me any notice of the question. I am doing my best to provide the best figures I can recollect. Last week, for instance, the prison population in the government prisons in Western Australia, in all prisons, including Acacia Prison - the privatised prison - was just under 2 800. Approximately 700 prisoners - and excuse me for not having the exact figure, but it is something of that order - have been transferred out of the government system into the private prison, Acacia, during the past 12 months, and that is now coming to an end. A combination of two things has applied. The first is the success of the Government’s move to get minor offenders - such as people convicted for motor vehicle offences such as driving without a motor vehicle licence - punished in the community rather than locked up in jail. That move has resulted in a reduction of approximately 400 people from the prison population in toto, and they are now being punished appropriately in the community. The second reason is the shift of prisoners out of the government prison system into the private prison system, which was an initiative of the previous Government. If those two figures are added together, almost 700 people have gone to the private system, and there has been a reduction of approximately 400 people out of the total prison population. We have approximately 1 000 fewer people in the prison system. It would be economically irresponsible to maintain staffing in the prison system at levels that were designed to cater for 3 000 prisoners when we have only 2 000 prisoners in the government prison system. That would be the height of economic irresponsibility. One of the things the previous Government did prior to losing the election - Ms Sue Walker interjected. Mr McGINTY: I will make this point to the member, because she will be very interested in this. I will not sit down until I have answered all the member’s questions. One of the things the previous Government did when it was in power was to employ - Ms Sue Walker interjected. Mr McGINTY: Just listen. Ms Sue Walker: I am trying to get an answer. Government members: Bleat, bleat! The SPEAKER: Order, members! Mr McGINTY: The member is getting an answer. One of the things the previous Government did was to engage prison officers on short-term contracts, for three years, to deal with the very problem that caused the new prison to be built at Acacia, and that was an explosion in the prison population under that Government which necessitated prison officers being employed on short-term contracts while the new private prison was being built, in the knowledge that prisoners would then be transferred out of the state prison system into the privatised prison. The previous Government set up a short-term contract arrangement. Those contracts are now coming to an end at a time when the prison population in government prisons is falling. What does the member want us to do - keep them employed? Ms Sue Walker: Will you answer the question? Mr McGINTY: The answer is no, we will not do that, because we will employ the number of prison officers that are necessary to run safe prisons in this State. We are doing that as these contracts are expiring. In the first round - about three months ago - approximately 50 prison officers out of 70 whose contracts were to expire were offered permanent employment. The most recent round, which occurred about two weeks ago - Ms Sue Walker interjected. Mr McGINTY: The member for Nedlands should listen. She will be better informed if she does. Ms Sue Walker interjected. Mr McGINTY: The member will be better informed, because she is obviously not aware of the background to this matter. It is important that she understand it. Ms Sue Walker: You cannot tell me how many prisoners are in the prison system. Mr McGINTY: Yes, I can. Ms Sue Walker: No, you can’t. Mr McGINTY: I have already provided that information. The number varies on a daily, or even an hourly, basis. The member for Nedlands will discover that as she gets a bit more experience in dealing with these matters. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER: Members! Mr McGINTY: As those contracts were expiring, contracts were also expiring for the second batch of 70 contract prison officers who were engaged by the previous Government on a short-term basis to deal with the peak in the prison population. This Government has given those prison officers advance notice that approximately 20 of those 70 officers will be kept, and that the rest will be surplus to requirements. The three-year contracts of a further 70 prison officers will terminate next year. Ms Sue Walker: Have you told them that they have lost their jobs? Mr McGINTY: Told whom? Ms Sue Walker: The 70 prison officers. Mr McGINTY: The next lot? Ms Sue Walker: The 70 prison officers. Mr McGINTY: Of course not. An assessment will need to be made next year about the number of prison officers who will be required in the light of the prison population at that time. Why on earth would the Government tell people that something will happen to them next year when we do not know the basis upon which that decision will be made? That might have been the way in which the member for Nedlands wanted to run the show, but we will employ the appropriate number of prison officers for the prison population. There has been a dramatic fall of about 1 000 people in the state prison population. The Government will not maintain the same number of prison officers that was employed to look after 3 000 prisoners - Ms Sue Walker: Is that figure accurate? The SPEAKER: Order, member for Nedlands! Mr McGINTY: I ask the member for Nedlands to zip it. The Government will not maintain prison officers at the level needed to look after 3 000 prisoners when there are only 2 000 in the government prison system. That is crystal clear. Mr Birney: Do you believe that the new DNA legislation will rapidly fill that hole in prison numbers? Mr McGINTY: It will have a significant impact. That is one reason the Government will need to review the next batch of 70 prison officers who are employed on three-year contracts. We will need to consider the impact of the DNA legislation when the Liberal Party eventually passes it through the Legislative Council and gets on with it. Several members interjected. Mr McGINTY: I am pleased to hear that. The member is obviously more up-to-date than I am on that matter. When that legislation comes into effect, I believe that it will have a significant impact on the clear-up rate and will ensure that people who should be in prison for committing serious offences are in prison. That impact will need to be offset against the reduction in the prison population that will occur as a result of the sentencing legislation that the Government will introduce next month. At the moment, the Prison Officers Union, with which I have regular dialogue, wants to maintain staffing levels to cover 3 000 prisoners when there are only 2 000 prisoners in the system. It is irresponsible for anyone to suggest that that is the appropriate level of staffing. The Government is reducing the prison population in this State. At the moment, Western Australia imprisons its citizens at a far higher rate than anywhere else in the country. The previous Government ran the most expensive prison system in Australia as well. All those factors are fluid. They will all have a significant impact. We must take those matters into account. The Government will employ in good jobs the number of prison officers that is needed to run the system. We will not artificially create employment for prison officers who are not needed. The previous Government found that those officers were not needed when it employed them on short-term contracts in the first place. Mr Birney: Are you proud of the fact that the prison population has dramatically reduced under the Labor Party? Mr McGINTY: The yardstick used by members opposite to measure the success of legislation was how many citizens it locked up. I regard that as an absolute admission of failure. No other State or Territory in Australia locks up minor offenders in the numbers or way they are locked up in Western Australia. Those people are more effectively punished outside the prisons. I am pleased that we are getting back to the norm. This Government treats the citizens of this State in a more sensible way. The economic rationalists opposite should consider that it costs $70 000 to keep one prisoner in prison for a year. That is taxpayers’ money that could be spent on schools, hospitals or a raft of other services. The Opposition wants the Government to spend precious dollars on locking up people who do not need to be locked up, because the nature of their offending is minor and they are not punished by imprisonment anywhere else in Australia. That economic irresponsibility on the part of the previous Government is being corrected by this Government. The SPEAKER: Order! Members who are not involved with the next item of business should carry on their conversations outside.
(1)-(3) I thank the member for Nedlands for the opportunity to explain to the House something very important that is happening in our prison system. During the course of the past year there has been a reduction of one-third in the number of people in the State’s prisons. That number has come down from a peak during last year under the previous Government of approximately 3 200 prisoners in the State’s prisons to approximately 2 000. Ms Sue Walker interjected. Mr McGINTY: It is approximately 1 000. The member did not give me any notice of the question. I am doing my best to provide the best figures I can recollect. Last week, for instance, the prison population in the government prisons in Western Australia, in all prisons, including Acacia Prison - the privatised prison - was just under 2 800. Approximately 700 prisoners - and excuse me for not having the exact figure, but it is something of that order - have been transferred out of the government system into the private prison, Acacia, during the past 12 months, and that is now coming to an end. A combination of two things has applied. The first is the success of the Government’s move to get minor offenders - such as people convicted for motor vehicle offences such as driving without a motor vehicle licence - punished in the community rather than locked up in jail. That move has resulted in a reduction of approximately 400 people from the prison population in toto, and they are now being punished appropriately in the community. The second reason is the shift of prisoners out of the government prison system into the private prison system, which was an initiative of the previous Government. If those two figures are added together, almost 700 people have gone to the private system, and there has been a reduction of approximately 400 people out of the total prison population. We have approximately 1 000 fewer people in the prison system. It would be economically irresponsible to maintain staffing in the prison system at levels that were designed to cater for 3 000 prisoners when we have only 2 000 prisoners in the government prison system. That would be the height of economic irresponsibility. One of the things the previous Government did prior to losing the election - Ms Sue Walker interjected. Mr McGINTY: I will make this point to the member, because she will be very interested in this. I will not sit down until I have answered all the member’s questions. One of the things the previous Government did when it was in power was to employ - Ms Sue Walker interjected. Mr McGINTY: Just listen. Ms Sue Walker: I am trying to get an answer. Government members: Bleat, bleat! The SPEAKER: Order, members! Mr McGINTY: The member is getting an answer. One of the things the previous Government did was to engage prison officers on short-term contracts, for three years, to deal with the very problem that caused the new prison to be built at Acacia, and that was an explosion in the prison population under that Government which necessitated prison officers being employed on short-term contracts while the new private prison was being built, in the knowledge that prisoners would then be transferred out of the state prison system into the privatised prison. The previous Government set up a short-term contract arrangement. Those contracts are now coming to an end at a time when the prison population in government prisons is falling. What does the member want us to do - keep them employed? Ms Sue Walker: Will you answer the question? Mr McGINTY: The answer is no, we will not do that, because we will employ the number of prison officers that are necessary to run safe prisons in this State. We are doing that as these contracts are expiring. In the first round - about three months ago - approximately 50 prison officers out of 70 whose contracts were to expire were offered permanent employment. The most recent round, which occurred about two weeks ago - Ms Sue Walker interjected. Mr McGINTY: The member for Nedlands should listen. She will be better informed if she does. Ms Sue Walker interjected. Mr McGINTY: The member will be better informed, because she is obviously not aware of the background to this matter. It is important that she understand it. Ms Sue Walker: You cannot tell me how many prisoners are in the prison system. Mr McGINTY: Yes, I can. Ms Sue Walker: No, you can’t. Mr McGINTY: I have already provided that information. The number varies on a daily, or even an hourly, basis. The member for Nedlands will discover that as she gets a bit more experience in dealing with these matters. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER: Members! Mr McGINTY: As those contracts were expiring, contracts were also expiring for the second batch of 70 contract prison officers who were engaged by the previous Government on a short-term basis to deal with the peak in the prison population. This Government has given those prison officers advance notice that approximately 20 of those 70 officers will be kept, and that the rest will be surplus to requirements. The three-year contracts of a further 70 prison officers will terminate next year. Ms Sue Walker: Have you told them that they have lost their jobs? Mr McGINTY: Told whom? Ms Sue Walker: The 70 prison officers. Mr McGINTY: The next lot? Ms Sue Walker: The 70 prison officers. Mr McGINTY: Of course not. An assessment will need to be made next year about the number of prison officers who will be required in the light of the prison population at that time. Why on earth would the Government tell people that something will happen to them next year when we do not know the basis upon which that decision will be made? That might have been the way in which the member for Nedlands wanted to run the show, but we will employ the appropriate number of prison officers for the prison population. There has been a dramatic fall of about 1 000 people in the state prison population. The Government will not maintain the same number of prison officers that was employed to look after 3 000 prisoners - Ms Sue Walker: Is that figure accurate? The SPEAKER: Order, member for Nedlands! Mr McGINTY: I ask the member for Nedlands to zip it. The Government will not maintain prison officers at the level needed to look after 3 000 prisoners when there are only 2 000 in the government prison system. That is crystal clear. Mr Birney: Do you believe that the new DNA legislation will rapidly fill that hole in prison numbers? Mr McGINTY: It will have a significant impact. That is one reason the Government will need to review the next batch of 70 prison officers who are employed on three-year contracts. We will need to consider the impact of the DNA legislation when the Liberal Party eventually passes it through the Legislative Council and gets on with it. Several members interjected. Mr McGINTY: I am pleased to hear that. The member is obviously more up-to-date than I am on that matter. When that legislation comes into effect, I believe that it will have a significant impact on the clear-up rate and will ensure that people who should be in prison for committing serious offences are in prison. That impact will need to be offset against the reduction in the prison population that will occur as a result of the sentencing legislation that the Government will introduce next month. At the moment, the Prison Officers Union, with which I have regular dialogue, wants to maintain staffing levels to cover 3 000 prisoners when there are only 2 000 prisoners in the system. It is irresponsible for anyone to suggest that that is the appropriate level of staffing. The Government is reducing the prison population in this State. At the moment, Western Australia imprisons its citizens at a far higher rate than anywhere else in the country. The previous Government ran the most expensive prison system in Australia as well. All those factors are fluid. They will all have a significant impact. We must take those matters into account. The Government will employ in good jobs the number of prison officers that is needed to run the system. We will not artificially create employment for prison officers who are not needed. The previous Government found that those officers were not needed when it employed them on short-term contracts in the first place. Mr Birney: Are you proud of the fact that the prison population has dramatically reduced under the Labor Party? Mr McGINTY: The yardstick used by members opposite to measure the success of legislation was how many citizens it locked up. I regard that as an absolute admission of failure. No other State or Territory in Australia locks up minor offenders in the numbers or way they are locked up in Western Australia. Those people are more effectively punished outside the prisons. I am pleased that we are getting back to the norm. This Government treats the citizens of this State in a more sensible way. The economic rationalists opposite should consider that it costs $70 000 to keep one prisoner in prison for a year. That is taxpayers’ money that could be spent on schools, hospitals or a raft of other services. The Opposition wants the Government to spend precious dollars on locking up people who do not need to be locked up, because the nature of their offending is minor and they are not punished by imprisonment anywhere else in Australia. That economic irresponsibility on the part of the previous Government is being corrected by this Government. The SPEAKER: Order! Members who are not involved with the next item of business should carry on their conversations outside.
Ms Sue Walker interjected. Mr McGINTY: It is approximately 1 000. The member did not give me any notice of the question. I am doing my best to provide the best figures I can recollect. Last week, for instance, the prison population in the government prisons in Western Australia, in all prisons, including Acacia Prison - the privatised prison - was just under 2 800. Approximately 700 prisoners - and excuse me for not having the exact figure, but it is something of that order - have been transferred out of the government system into the private prison, Acacia, during the past 12 months, and that is now coming to an end. A combination of two things has applied. The first is the success of the Government’s move to get minor offenders - such as people convicted for motor vehicle offences such as driving without a motor vehicle licence - punished in the community rather than locked up in jail. That move has resulted in a reduction of approximately 400 people from the prison population in toto, and they are now being punished appropriately in the community. The second reason is the shift of prisoners out of the government prison system into the private prison system, which was an initiative of the previous Government. If those two figures are added together, almost 700 people have gone to the private system, and there has been a reduction of approximately 400 people out of the total prison population. We have approximately 1 000 fewer people in the prison system. It would be economically irresponsible to maintain staffing in the prison system at levels that were designed to cater for 3 000 prisoners when we have only 2 000 prisoners in the government prison system. That would be the height of economic irresponsibility. One of the things the previous Government did prior to losing the election - Ms Sue Walker interjected. Mr McGINTY: I will make this point to the member, because she will be very interested in this. I will not sit down until I have answered all the member’s questions. One of the things the previous Government did when it was in power was to employ - Ms Sue Walker interjected. Mr McGINTY: Just listen. Ms Sue Walker: I am trying to get an answer. Government members: Bleat, bleat! The SPEAKER: Order, members! Mr McGINTY: The member is getting an answer. One of the things the previous Government did was to engage prison officers on short-term contracts, for three years, to deal with the very problem that caused the new prison to be built at Acacia, and that was an explosion in the prison population under that Government which necessitated prison officers being employed on short-term contracts while the new private prison was being built, in the knowledge that prisoners would then be transferred out of the state prison system into the privatised prison. The previous Government set up a short-term contract arrangement. Those contracts are now coming to an end at a time when the prison population in government prisons is falling. What does the member want us to do - keep them employed? Ms Sue Walker: Will you answer the question? Mr McGINTY: The answer is no, we will not do that, because we will employ the number of prison officers that are necessary to run safe prisons in this State. We are doing that as these contracts are expiring. In the first round - about three months ago - approximately 50 prison officers out of 70 whose contracts were to expire were offered permanent employment. The most recent round, which occurred about two weeks ago - Ms Sue Walker interjected. Mr McGINTY: The member for Nedlands should listen. She will be better informed if she does. Ms Sue Walker interjected. Mr McGINTY: The member will be better informed, because she is obviously not aware of the background to this matter. It is important that she understand it. Ms Sue Walker: You cannot tell me how many prisoners are in the prison system. Mr McGINTY: Yes, I can. Ms Sue Walker: No, you can’t. Mr McGINTY: I have already provided that information. The number varies on a daily, or even an hourly, basis. The member for Nedlands will discover that as she gets a bit more experience in dealing with these matters. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER: Members! Mr McGINTY: As those contracts were expiring, contracts were also expiring for the second batch of 70 contract prison officers who were engaged by the previous Government on a short-term basis to deal with the peak in the prison population. This Government has given those prison officers advance notice that approximately 20 of those 70 officers will be kept, and that the rest will be surplus to requirements. The three-year contracts of a further 70 prison officers will terminate next year. Ms Sue Walker: Have you told them that they have lost their jobs? Mr McGINTY: Told whom? Ms Sue Walker: The 70 prison officers. Mr McGINTY: The next lot? Ms Sue Walker: The 70 prison officers. Mr McGINTY: Of course not. An assessment will need to be made next year about the number of prison officers who will be required in the light of the prison population at that time. Why on earth would the Government tell people that something will happen to them next year when we do not know the basis upon which that decision will be made? That might have been the way in which the member for Nedlands wanted to run the show, but we will employ the appropriate number of prison officers for the prison population. There has been a dramatic fall of about 1 000 people in the state prison population. The Government will not maintain the same number of prison officers that was employed to look after 3 000 prisoners - Ms Sue Walker: Is that figure accurate? The SPEAKER: Order, member for Nedlands! Mr McGINTY: I ask the member for Nedlands to zip it. The Government will not maintain prison officers at the level needed to look after 3 000 prisoners when there are only 2 000 in the government prison system. That is crystal clear. Mr Birney: Do you believe that the new DNA legislation will rapidly fill that hole in prison numbers? Mr McGINTY: It will have a significant impact. That is one reason the Government will need to review the next batch of 70 prison officers who are employed on three-year contracts. We will need to consider the impact of the DNA legislation when the Liberal Party eventually passes it through the Legislative Council and gets on with it. Several members interjected. Mr McGINTY: I am pleased to hear that. The member is obviously more up-to-date than I am on that matter. When that legislation comes into effect, I believe that it will have a significant impact on the clear-up rate and will ensure that people who should be in prison for committing serious offences are in prison. That impact will need to be offset against the reduction in the prison population that will occur as a result of the sentencing legislation that the Government will introduce next month. At the moment, the Prison Officers Union, with which I have regular dialogue, wants to maintain staffing levels to cover 3 000 prisoners when there are only 2 000 prisoners in the system. It is irresponsible for anyone to suggest that that is the appropriate level of staffing. The Government is reducing the prison population in this State. At the moment, Western Australia imprisons its citizens at a far higher rate than anywhere else in the country. The previous Government ran the most expensive prison system in Australia as well. All those factors are fluid. They will all have a significant impact. We must take those matters into account. The Government will employ in good jobs the number of prison officers that is needed to run the system. We will not artificially create employment for prison officers who are not needed. The previous Government found that those officers were not needed when it employed them on short-term contracts in the first place. Mr Birney: Are you proud of the fact that the prison population has dramatically reduced under the Labor Party? Mr McGINTY: The yardstick used by members opposite to measure the success of legislation was how many citizens it locked up. I regard that as an absolute admission of failure. No other State or Territory in Australia locks up minor offenders in the numbers or way they are locked up in Western Australia. Those people are more effectively punished outside the prisons. I am pleased that we are getting back to the norm. This Government treats the citizens of this State in a more sensible way. The economic rationalists opposite should consider that it costs $70 000 to keep one prisoner in prison for a year. That is taxpayers’ money that could be spent on schools, hospitals or a raft of other services. The Opposition wants the Government to spend precious dollars on locking up people who do not need to be locked up, because the nature of their offending is minor and they are not punished by imprisonment anywhere else in Australia. That economic irresponsibility on the part of the previous Government is being corrected by this Government. The SPEAKER: Order! Members who are not involved with the next item of business should carry on their conversations outside.
Mr McGINTY: It is approximately 1 000. The member did not give me any notice of the question. I am doing my best to provide the best figures I can recollect. Last week, for instance, the prison population in the government prisons in Western Australia, in all prisons, including Acacia Prison - the privatised prison - was just under 2 800. Approximately 700 prisoners - and excuse me for not having the exact figure, but it is something of that order - have been transferred out of the government system into the private prison, Acacia, during the past 12 months, and that is now coming to an end. A combination of two things has applied. The first is the success of the Government’s move to get minor offenders - such as people convicted for motor vehicle offences such as driving without a motor vehicle licence - punished in the community rather than locked up in jail. That move has resulted in a reduction of approximately 400 people from the prison population in toto, and they are now being punished appropriately in the community. The second reason is the shift of prisoners out of the government prison system into the private prison system, which was an initiative of the previous Government. If those two figures are added together, almost 700 people have gone to the private system, and there has been a reduction of approximately 400 people out of the total prison population. We have approximately 1 000 fewer people in the prison system. It would be economically irresponsible to maintain staffing in the prison system at levels that were designed to cater for 3 000 prisoners when we have only 2 000 prisoners in the government prison system. That would be the height of economic irresponsibility. One of the things the previous Government did prior to losing the election - Ms Sue Walker interjected. Mr McGINTY: I will make this point to the member, because she will be very interested in this. I will not sit down until I have answered all the member’s questions. One of the things the previous Government did when it was in power was to employ - Ms Sue Walker interjected. Mr McGINTY: Just listen. Ms Sue Walker: I am trying to get an answer. Government members: Bleat, bleat! The SPEAKER: Order, members! Mr McGINTY: The member is getting an answer. One of the things the previous Government did was to engage prison officers on short-term contracts, for three years, to deal with the very problem that caused the new prison to be built at Acacia, and that was an explosion in the prison population under that Government which necessitated prison officers being employed on short-term contracts while the new private prison was being built, in the knowledge that prisoners would then be transferred out of the state prison system into the privatised prison. The previous Government set up a short-term contract arrangement. Those contracts are now coming to an end at a time when the prison population in government prisons is falling. What does the member want us to do - keep them employed? Ms Sue Walker: Will you answer the question? Mr McGINTY: The answer is no, we will not do that, because we will employ the number of prison officers that are necessary to run safe prisons in this State. We are doing that as these contracts are expiring. In the first round - about three months ago - approximately 50 prison officers out of 70 whose contracts were to expire were offered permanent employment. The most recent round, which occurred about two weeks ago - Ms Sue Walker interjected. Mr McGINTY: The member for Nedlands should listen. She will be better informed if she does. Ms Sue Walker interjected. Mr McGINTY: The member will be better informed, because she is obviously not aware of the background to this matter. It is important that she understand it. Ms Sue Walker: You cannot tell me how many prisoners are in the prison system. Mr McGINTY: Yes, I can. Ms Sue Walker: No, you can’t. Mr McGINTY: I have already provided that information. The number varies on a daily, or even an hourly, basis. The member for Nedlands will discover that as she gets a bit more experience in dealing with these matters. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER: Members! Mr McGINTY: As those contracts were expiring, contracts were also expiring for the second batch of 70 contract prison officers who were engaged by the previous Government on a short-term basis to deal with the peak in the prison population. This Government has given those prison officers advance notice that approximately 20 of those 70 officers will be kept, and that the rest will be surplus to requirements. The three-year contracts of a further 70 prison officers will terminate next year. Ms Sue Walker: Have you told them that they have lost their jobs? Mr McGINTY: Told whom? Ms Sue Walker: The 70 prison officers. Mr McGINTY: The next lot? Ms Sue Walker: The 70 prison officers. Mr McGINTY: Of course not. An assessment will need to be made next year about the number of prison officers who will be required in the light of the prison population at that time. Why on earth would the Government tell people that something will happen to them next year when we do not know the basis upon which that decision will be made? That might have been the way in which the member for Nedlands wanted to run the show, but we will employ the appropriate number of prison officers for the prison population. There has been a dramatic fall of about 1 000 people in the state prison population. The Government will not maintain the same number of prison officers that was employed to look after 3 000 prisoners - Ms Sue Walker: Is that figure accurate? The SPEAKER: Order, member for Nedlands! Mr McGINTY: I ask the member for Nedlands to zip it. The Government will not maintain prison officers at the level needed to look after 3 000 prisoners when there are only 2 000 in the government prison system. That is crystal clear. Mr Birney: Do you believe that the new DNA legislation will rapidly fill that hole in prison numbers? Mr McGINTY: It will have a significant impact. That is one reason the Government will need to review the next batch of 70 prison officers who are employed on three-year contracts. We will need to consider the impact of the DNA legislation when the Liberal Party eventually passes it through the Legislative Council and gets on with it. Several members interjected. Mr McGINTY: I am pleased to hear that. The member is obviously more up-to-date than I am on that matter. When that legislation comes into effect, I believe that it will have a significant impact on the clear-up rate and will ensure that people who should be in prison for committing serious offences are in prison. That impact will need to be offset against the reduction in the prison population that will occur as a result of the sentencing legislation that the Government will introduce next month. At the moment, the Prison Officers Union, with which I have regular dialogue, wants to maintain staffing levels to cover 3 000 prisoners when there are only 2 000 prisoners in the system. It is irresponsible for anyone to suggest that that is the appropriate level of staffing. The Government is reducing the prison population in this State. At the moment, Western Australia imprisons its citizens at a far higher rate than anywhere else in the country. The previous Government ran the most expensive prison system in Australia as well. All those factors are fluid. They will all have a significant impact. We must take those matters into account. The Government will employ in good jobs the number of prison officers that is needed to run the system. We will not artificially create employment for prison officers who are not needed. The previous Government found that those officers were not needed when it employed them on short-term contracts in the first place. Mr Birney: Are you proud of the fact that the prison population has dramatically reduced under the Labor Party? Mr McGINTY: The yardstick used by members opposite to measure the success of legislation was how many citizens it locked up. I regard that as an absolute admission of failure. No other State or Territory in Australia locks up minor offenders in the numbers or way they are locked up in Western Australia. Those people are more effectively punished outside the prisons. I am pleased that we are getting back to the norm. This Government treats the citizens of this State in a more sensible way. The economic rationalists opposite should consider that it costs $70 000 to keep one prisoner in prison for a year. That is taxpayers’ money that could be spent on schools, hospitals or a raft of other services. The Opposition wants the Government to spend precious dollars on locking up people who do not need to be locked up, because the nature of their offending is minor and they are not punished by imprisonment anywhere else in Australia. That economic irresponsibility on the part of the previous Government is being corrected by this Government. The SPEAKER: Order! Members who are not involved with the next item of business should carry on their conversations outside.
It would be economically irresponsible to maintain staffing in the prison system at levels that were designed to cater for 3 000 prisoners when we have only 2 000 prisoners in the government prison system. That would be the height of economic irresponsibility. One of the things the previous Government did prior to losing the election - Ms Sue Walker interjected. Mr McGINTY: I will make this point to the member, because she will be very interested in this. I will not sit down until I have answered all the member’s questions. One of the things the previous Government did when it was in power was to employ - Ms Sue Walker interjected. Mr McGINTY: Just listen. Ms Sue Walker: I am trying to get an answer. Government members: Bleat, bleat! The SPEAKER: Order, members! Mr McGINTY: The member is getting an answer. One of the things the previous Government did was to engage prison officers on short-term contracts, for three years, to deal with the very problem that caused the new prison to be built at Acacia, and that was an explosion in the prison population under that Government which necessitated prison officers being employed on short-term contracts while the new private prison was being built, in the knowledge that prisoners would then be transferred out of the state prison system into the privatised prison. The previous Government set up a short-term contract arrangement. Those contracts are now coming to an end at a time when the prison population in government prisons is falling. What does the member want us to do - keep them employed? Ms Sue Walker: Will you answer the question? Mr McGINTY: The answer is no, we will not do that, because we will employ the number of prison officers that are necessary to run safe prisons in this State. We are doing that as these contracts are expiring. In the first round - about three months ago - approximately 50 prison officers out of 70 whose contracts were to expire were offered permanent employment. The most recent round, which occurred about two weeks ago - Ms Sue Walker interjected. Mr McGINTY: The member for Nedlands should listen. She will be better informed if she does. Ms Sue Walker interjected. Mr McGINTY: The member will be better informed, because she is obviously not aware of the background to this matter. It is important that she understand it. Ms Sue Walker: You cannot tell me how many prisoners are in the prison system. Mr McGINTY: Yes, I can. Ms Sue Walker: No, you can’t. Mr McGINTY: I have already provided that information. The number varies on a daily, or even an hourly, basis. The member for Nedlands will discover that as she gets a bit more experience in dealing with these matters. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER: Members! Mr McGINTY: As those contracts were expiring, contracts were also expiring for the second batch of 70 contract prison officers who were engaged by the previous Government on a short-term basis to deal with the peak in the prison population. This Government has given those prison officers advance notice that approximately 20 of those 70 officers will be kept, and that the rest will be surplus to requirements. The three-year contracts of a further 70 prison officers will terminate next year. Ms Sue Walker: Have you told them that they have lost their jobs? Mr McGINTY: Told whom? Ms Sue Walker: The 70 prison officers. Mr McGINTY: The next lot? Ms Sue Walker: The 70 prison officers. Mr McGINTY: Of course not. An assessment will need to be made next year about the number of prison officers who will be required in the light of the prison population at that time. Why on earth would the Government tell people that something will happen to them next year when we do not know the basis upon which that decision will be made? That might have been the way in which the member for Nedlands wanted to run the show, but we will employ the appropriate number of prison officers for the prison population. There has been a dramatic fall of about 1 000 people in the state prison population. The Government will not maintain the same number of prison officers that was employed to look after 3 000 prisoners - Ms Sue Walker: Is that figure accurate? The SPEAKER: Order, member for Nedlands! Mr McGINTY: I ask the member for Nedlands to zip it. The Government will not maintain prison officers at the level needed to look after 3 000 prisoners when there are only 2 000 in the government prison system. That is crystal clear. Mr Birney: Do you believe that the new DNA legislation will rapidly fill that hole in prison numbers? Mr McGINTY: It will have a significant impact. That is one reason the Government will need to review the next batch of 70 prison officers who are employed on three-year contracts. We will need to consider the impact of the DNA legislation when the Liberal Party eventually passes it through the Legislative Council and gets on with it. Several members interjected. Mr McGINTY: I am pleased to hear that. The member is obviously more up-to-date than I am on that matter. When that legislation comes into effect, I believe that it will have a significant impact on the clear-up rate and will ensure that people who should be in prison for committing serious offences are in prison. That impact will need to be offset against the reduction in the prison population that will occur as a result of the sentencing legislation that the Government will introduce next month. At the moment, the Prison Officers Union, with which I have regular dialogue, wants to maintain staffing levels to cover 3 000 prisoners when there are only 2 000 prisoners in the system. It is irresponsible for anyone to suggest that that is the appropriate level of staffing. The Government is reducing the prison population in this State. At the moment, Western Australia imprisons its citizens at a far higher rate than anywhere else in the country. The previous Government ran the most expensive prison system in Australia as well. All those factors are fluid. They will all have a significant impact. We must take those matters into account. The Government will employ in good jobs the number of prison officers that is needed to run the system. We will not artificially create employment for prison officers who are not needed. The previous Government found that those officers were not needed when it employed them on short-term contracts in the first place. Mr Birney: Are you proud of the fact that the prison population has dramatically reduced under the Labor Party? Mr McGINTY: The yardstick used by members opposite to measure the success of legislation was how many citizens it locked up. I regard that as an absolute admission of failure. No other State or Territory in Australia locks up minor offenders in the numbers or way they are locked up in Western Australia. Those people are more effectively punished outside the prisons. I am pleased that we are getting back to the norm. This Government treats the citizens of this State in a more sensible way. The economic rationalists opposite should consider that it costs $70 000 to keep one prisoner in prison for a year. That is taxpayers’ money that could be spent on schools, hospitals or a raft of other services. The Opposition wants the Government to spend precious dollars on locking up people who do not need to be locked up, because the nature of their offending is minor and they are not punished by imprisonment anywhere else in Australia. That economic irresponsibility on the part of the previous Government is being corrected by this Government. The SPEAKER: Order! Members who are not involved with the next item of business should carry on their conversations outside.
Ms Sue Walker interjected. Mr McGINTY: I will make this point to the member, because she will be very interested in this. I will not sit down until I have answered all the member’s questions. One of the things the previous Government did when it was in power was to employ - Ms Sue Walker interjected. Mr McGINTY: Just listen. Ms Sue Walker: I am trying to get an answer. Government members: Bleat, bleat! The SPEAKER: Order, members! Mr McGINTY: The member is getting an answer. One of the things the previous Government did was to engage prison officers on short-term contracts, for three years, to deal with the very problem that caused the new prison to be built at Acacia, and that was an explosion in the prison population under that Government which necessitated prison officers being employed on short-term contracts while the new private prison was being built, in the knowledge that prisoners would then be transferred out of the state prison system into the privatised prison. The previous Government set up a short-term contract arrangement. Those contracts are now coming to an end at a time when the prison population in government prisons is falling. What does the member want us to do - keep them employed? Ms Sue Walker: Will you answer the question? Mr McGINTY: The answer is no, we will not do that, because we will employ the number of prison officers that are necessary to run safe prisons in this State. We are doing that as these contracts are expiring. In the first round - about three months ago - approximately 50 prison officers out of 70 whose contracts were to expire were offered permanent employment. The most recent round, which occurred about two weeks ago - Ms Sue Walker interjected. Mr McGINTY: The member for Nedlands should listen. She will be better informed if she does. Ms Sue Walker interjected. Mr McGINTY: The member will be better informed, because she is obviously not aware of the background to this matter. It is important that she understand it. Ms Sue Walker: You cannot tell me how many prisoners are in the prison system. Mr McGINTY: Yes, I can. Ms Sue Walker: No, you can’t. Mr McGINTY: I have already provided that information. The number varies on a daily, or even an hourly, basis. The member for Nedlands will discover that as she gets a bit more experience in dealing with these matters. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER: Members! Mr McGINTY: As those contracts were expiring, contracts were also expiring for the second batch of 70 contract prison officers who were engaged by the previous Government on a short-term basis to deal with the peak in the prison population. This Government has given those prison officers advance notice that approximately 20 of those 70 officers will be kept, and that the rest will be surplus to requirements. The three-year contracts of a further 70 prison officers will terminate next year. Ms Sue Walker: Have you told them that they have lost their jobs? Mr McGINTY: Told whom? Ms Sue Walker: The 70 prison officers. Mr McGINTY: The next lot? Ms Sue Walker: The 70 prison officers. Mr McGINTY: Of course not. An assessment will need to be made next year about the number of prison officers who will be required in the light of the prison population at that time. Why on earth would the Government tell people that something will happen to them next year when we do not know the basis upon which that decision will be made? That might have been the way in which the member for Nedlands wanted to run the show, but we will employ the appropriate number of prison officers for the prison population. There has been a dramatic fall of about 1 000 people in the state prison population. The Government will not maintain the same number of prison officers that was employed to look after 3 000 prisoners - Ms Sue Walker: Is that figure accurate? The SPEAKER: Order, member for Nedlands! Mr McGINTY: I ask the member for Nedlands to zip it. The Government will not maintain prison officers at the level needed to look after 3 000 prisoners when there are only 2 000 in the government prison system. That is crystal clear. Mr Birney: Do you believe that the new DNA legislation will rapidly fill that hole in prison numbers? Mr McGINTY: It will have a significant impact. That is one reason the Government will need to review the next batch of 70 prison officers who are employed on three-year contracts. We will need to consider the impact of the DNA legislation when the Liberal Party eventually passes it through the Legislative Council and gets on with it. Several members interjected. Mr McGINTY: I am pleased to hear that. The member is obviously more up-to-date than I am on that matter. When that legislation comes into effect, I believe that it will have a significant impact on the clear-up rate and will ensure that people who should be in prison for committing serious offences are in prison. That impact will need to be offset against the reduction in the prison population that will occur as a result of the sentencing legislation that the Government will introduce next month. At the moment, the Prison Officers Union, with which I have regular dialogue, wants to maintain staffing levels to cover 3 000 prisoners when there are only 2 000 prisoners in the system. It is irresponsible for anyone to suggest that that is the appropriate level of staffing. The Government is reducing the prison population in this State. At the moment, Western Australia imprisons its citizens at a far higher rate than anywhere else in the country. The previous Government ran the most expensive prison system in Australia as well. All those factors are fluid. They will all have a significant impact. We must take those matters into account. The Government will employ in good jobs the number of prison officers that is needed to run the system. We will not artificially create employment for prison officers who are not needed. The previous Government found that those officers were not needed when it employed them on short-term contracts in the first place. Mr Birney: Are you proud of the fact that the prison population has dramatically reduced under the Labor Party? Mr McGINTY: The yardstick used by members opposite to measure the success of legislation was how many citizens it locked up. I regard that as an absolute admission of failure. No other State or Territory in Australia locks up minor offenders in the numbers or way they are locked up in Western Australia. Those people are more effectively punished outside the prisons. I am pleased that we are getting back to the norm. This Government treats the citizens of this State in a more sensible way. The economic rationalists opposite should consider that it costs $70 000 to keep one prisoner in prison for a year. That is taxpayers’ money that could be spent on schools, hospitals or a raft of other services. The Opposition wants the Government to spend precious dollars on locking up people who do not need to be locked up, because the nature of their offending is minor and they are not punished by imprisonment anywhere else in Australia. That economic irresponsibility on the part of the previous Government is being corrected by this Government. The SPEAKER: Order! Members who are not involved with the next item of business should carry on their conversations outside.
Mr McGINTY: I will make this point to the member, because she will be very interested in this. I will not sit down until I have answered all the member’s questions. One of the things the previous Government did when it was in power was to employ - Ms Sue Walker interjected. Mr McGINTY: Just listen. Ms Sue Walker: I am trying to get an answer. Government members: Bleat, bleat! The SPEAKER: Order, members! Mr McGINTY: The member is getting an answer. One of the things the previous Government did was to engage prison officers on short-term contracts, for three years, to deal with the very problem that caused the new prison to be built at Acacia, and that was an explosion in the prison population under that Government which necessitated prison officers being employed on short-term contracts while the new private prison was being built, in the knowledge that prisoners would then be transferred out of the state prison system into the privatised prison. The previous Government set up a short-term contract arrangement. Those contracts are now coming to an end at a time when the prison population in government prisons is falling. What does the member want us to do - keep them employed? Ms Sue Walker: Will you answer the question? Mr McGINTY: The answer is no, we will not do that, because we will employ the number of prison officers that are necessary to run safe prisons in this State. We are doing that as these contracts are expiring. In the first round - about three months ago - approximately 50 prison officers out of 70 whose contracts were to expire were offered permanent employment. The most recent round, which occurred about two weeks ago - Ms Sue Walker interjected. Mr McGINTY: The member for Nedlands should listen. She will be better informed if she does. Ms Sue Walker interjected. Mr McGINTY: The member will be better informed, because she is obviously not aware of the background to this matter. It is important that she understand it. Ms Sue Walker: You cannot tell me how many prisoners are in the prison system. Mr McGINTY: Yes, I can. Ms Sue Walker: No, you can’t. Mr McGINTY: I have already provided that information. The number varies on a daily, or even an hourly, basis. The member for Nedlands will discover that as she gets a bit more experience in dealing with these matters. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER: Members! Mr McGINTY: As those contracts were expiring, contracts were also expiring for the second batch of 70 contract prison officers who were engaged by the previous Government on a short-term basis to deal with the peak in the prison population. This Government has given those prison officers advance notice that approximately 20 of those 70 officers will be kept, and that the rest will be surplus to requirements. The three-year contracts of a further 70 prison officers will terminate next year. Ms Sue Walker: Have you told them that they have lost their jobs? Mr McGINTY: Told whom? Ms Sue Walker: The 70 prison officers. Mr McGINTY: The next lot? Ms Sue Walker: The 70 prison officers. Mr McGINTY: Of course not. An assessment will need to be made next year about the number of prison officers who will be required in the light of the prison population at that time. Why on earth would the Government tell people that something will happen to them next year when we do not know the basis upon which that decision will be made? That might have been the way in which the member for Nedlands wanted to run the show, but we will employ the appropriate number of prison officers for the prison population. There has been a dramatic fall of about 1 000 people in the state prison population. The Government will not maintain the same number of prison officers that was employed to look after 3 000 prisoners - Ms Sue Walker: Is that figure accurate? The SPEAKER: Order, member for Nedlands! Mr McGINTY: I ask the member for Nedlands to zip it. The Government will not maintain prison officers at the level needed to look after 3 000 prisoners when there are only 2 000 in the government prison system. That is crystal clear. Mr Birney: Do you believe that the new DNA legislation will rapidly fill that hole in prison numbers? Mr McGINTY: It will have a significant impact. That is one reason the Government will need to review the next batch of 70 prison officers who are employed on three-year contracts. We will need to consider the impact of the DNA legislation when the Liberal Party eventually passes it through the Legislative Council and gets on with it. Several members interjected. Mr McGINTY: I am pleased to hear that. The member is obviously more up-to-date than I am on that matter. When that legislation comes into effect, I believe that it will have a significant impact on the clear-up rate and will ensure that people who should be in prison for committing serious offences are in prison. That impact will need to be offset against the reduction in the prison population that will occur as a result of the sentencing legislation that the Government will introduce next month. At the moment, the Prison Officers Union, with which I have regular dialogue, wants to maintain staffing levels to cover 3 000 prisoners when there are only 2 000 prisoners in the system. It is irresponsible for anyone to suggest that that is the appropriate level of staffing. The Government is reducing the prison population in this State. At the moment, Western Australia imprisons its citizens at a far higher rate than anywhere else in the country. The previous Government ran the most expensive prison system in Australia as well. All those factors are fluid. They will all have a significant impact. We must take those matters into account. The Government will employ in good jobs the number of prison officers that is needed to run the system. We will not artificially create employment for prison officers who are not needed. The previous Government found that those officers were not needed when it employed them on short-term contracts in the first place. Mr Birney: Are you proud of the fact that the prison population has dramatically reduced under the Labor Party? Mr McGINTY: The yardstick used by members opposite to measure the success of legislation was how many citizens it locked up. I regard that as an absolute admission of failure. No other State or Territory in Australia locks up minor offenders in the numbers or way they are locked up in Western Australia. Those people are more effectively punished outside the prisons. I am pleased that we are getting back to the norm. This Government treats the citizens of this State in a more sensible way. The economic rationalists opposite should consider that it costs $70 000 to keep one prisoner in prison for a year. That is taxpayers’ money that could be spent on schools, hospitals or a raft of other services. The Opposition wants the Government to spend precious dollars on locking up people who do not need to be locked up, because the nature of their offending is minor and they are not punished by imprisonment anywhere else in Australia. That economic irresponsibility on the part of the previous Government is being corrected by this Government. The SPEAKER: Order! Members who are not involved with the next item of business should carry on their conversations outside.
Ms Sue Walker interjected. Mr McGINTY: Just listen. Ms Sue Walker: I am trying to get an answer. Government members: Bleat, bleat! The SPEAKER: Order, members! Mr McGINTY: The member is getting an answer. One of the things the previous Government did was to engage prison officers on short-term contracts, for three years, to deal with the very problem that caused the new prison to be built at Acacia, and that was an explosion in the prison population under that Government which necessitated prison officers being employed on short-term contracts while the new private prison was being built, in the knowledge that prisoners would then be transferred out of the state prison system into the privatised prison. The previous Government set up a short-term contract arrangement. Those contracts are now coming to an end at a time when the prison population in government prisons is falling. What does the member want us to do - keep them employed? Ms Sue Walker: Will you answer the question? Mr McGINTY: The answer is no, we will not do that, because we will employ the number of prison officers that are necessary to run safe prisons in this State. We are doing that as these contracts are expiring. In the first round - about three months ago - approximately 50 prison officers out of 70 whose contracts were to expire were offered permanent employment. The most recent round, which occurred about two weeks ago - Ms Sue Walker interjected. Mr McGINTY: The member for Nedlands should listen. She will be better informed if she does. Ms Sue Walker interjected. Mr McGINTY: The member will be better informed, because she is obviously not aware of the background to this matter. It is important that she understand it. Ms Sue Walker: You cannot tell me how many prisoners are in the prison system. Mr McGINTY: Yes, I can. Ms Sue Walker: No, you can’t. Mr McGINTY: I have already provided that information. The number varies on a daily, or even an hourly, basis. The member for Nedlands will discover that as she gets a bit more experience in dealing with these matters. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER: Members! Mr McGINTY: As those contracts were expiring, contracts were also expiring for the second batch of 70 contract prison officers who were engaged by the previous Government on a short-term basis to deal with the peak in the prison population. This Government has given those prison officers advance notice that approximately 20 of those 70 officers will be kept, and that the rest will be surplus to requirements. The three-year contracts of a further 70 prison officers will terminate next year. Ms Sue Walker: Have you told them that they have lost their jobs? Mr McGINTY: Told whom? Ms Sue Walker: The 70 prison officers. Mr McGINTY: The next lot? Ms Sue Walker: The 70 prison officers. Mr McGINTY: Of course not. An assessment will need to be made next year about the number of prison officers who will be required in the light of the prison population at that time. Why on earth would the Government tell people that something will happen to them next year when we do not know the basis upon which that decision will be made? That might have been the way in which the member for Nedlands wanted to run the show, but we will employ the appropriate number of prison officers for the prison population. There has been a dramatic fall of about 1 000 people in the state prison population. The Government will not maintain the same number of prison officers that was employed to look after 3 000 prisoners - Ms Sue Walker: Is that figure accurate? The SPEAKER: Order, member for Nedlands! Mr McGINTY: I ask the member for Nedlands to zip it. The Government will not maintain prison officers at the level needed to look after 3 000 prisoners when there are only 2 000 in the government prison system. That is crystal clear. Mr Birney: Do you believe that the new DNA legislation will rapidly fill that hole in prison numbers? Mr McGINTY: It will have a significant impact. That is one reason the Government will need to review the next batch of 70 prison officers who are employed on three-year contracts. We will need to consider the impact of the DNA legislation when the Liberal Party eventually passes it through the Legislative Council and gets on with it. Several members interjected. Mr McGINTY: I am pleased to hear that. The member is obviously more up-to-date than I am on that matter. When that legislation comes into effect, I believe that it will have a significant impact on the clear-up rate and will ensure that people who should be in prison for committing serious offences are in prison. That impact will need to be offset against the reduction in the prison population that will occur as a result of the sentencing legislation that the Government will introduce next month. At the moment, the Prison Officers Union, with which I have regular dialogue, wants to maintain staffing levels to cover 3 000 prisoners when there are only 2 000 prisoners in the system. It is irresponsible for anyone to suggest that that is the appropriate level of staffing. The Government is reducing the prison population in this State. At the moment, Western Australia imprisons its citizens at a far higher rate than anywhere else in the country. The previous Government ran the most expensive prison system in Australia as well. All those factors are fluid. They will all have a significant impact. We must take those matters into account. The Government will employ in good jobs the number of prison officers that is needed to run the system. We will not artificially create employment for prison officers who are not needed. The previous Government found that those officers were not needed when it employed them on short-term contracts in the first place. Mr Birney: Are you proud of the fact that the prison population has dramatically reduced under the Labor Party? Mr McGINTY: The yardstick used by members opposite to measure the success of legislation was how many citizens it locked up. I regard that as an absolute admission of failure. No other State or Territory in Australia locks up minor offenders in the numbers or way they are locked up in Western Australia. Those people are more effectively punished outside the prisons. I am pleased that we are getting back to the norm. This Government treats the citizens of this State in a more sensible way. The economic rationalists opposite should consider that it costs $70 000 to keep one prisoner in prison for a year. That is taxpayers’ money that could be spent on schools, hospitals or a raft of other services. The Opposition wants the Government to spend precious dollars on locking up people who do not need to be locked up, because the nature of their offending is minor and they are not punished by imprisonment anywhere else in Australia. That economic irresponsibility on the part of the previous Government is being corrected by this Government. The SPEAKER: Order! Members who are not involved with the next item of business should carry on their conversations outside.
Mr McGINTY: Just listen. Ms Sue Walker: I am trying to get an answer. Government members: Bleat, bleat! The SPEAKER: Order, members! Mr McGINTY: The member is getting an answer. One of the things the previous Government did was to engage prison officers on short-term contracts, for three years, to deal with the very problem that caused the new prison to be built at Acacia, and that was an explosion in the prison population under that Government which necessitated prison officers being employed on short-term contracts while the new private prison was being built, in the knowledge that prisoners would then be transferred out of the state prison system into the privatised prison. The previous Government set up a short-term contract arrangement. Those contracts are now coming to an end at a time when the prison population in government prisons is falling. What does the member want us to do - keep them employed? Ms Sue Walker: Will you answer the question? Mr McGINTY: The answer is no, we will not do that, because we will employ the number of prison officers that are necessary to run safe prisons in this State. We are doing that as these contracts are expiring. In the first round - about three months ago - approximately 50 prison officers out of 70 whose contracts were to expire were offered permanent employment. The most recent round, which occurred about two weeks ago - Ms Sue Walker interjected. Mr McGINTY: The member for Nedlands should listen. She will be better informed if she does. Ms Sue Walker interjected. Mr McGINTY: The member will be better informed, because she is obviously not aware of the background to this matter. It is important that she understand it. Ms Sue Walker: You cannot tell me how many prisoners are in the prison system. Mr McGINTY: Yes, I can. Ms Sue Walker: No, you can’t. Mr McGINTY: I have already provided that information. The number varies on a daily, or even an hourly, basis. The member for Nedlands will discover that as she gets a bit more experience in dealing with these matters. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER: Members! Mr McGINTY: As those contracts were expiring, contracts were also expiring for the second batch of 70 contract prison officers who were engaged by the previous Government on a short-term basis to deal with the peak in the prison population. This Government has given those prison officers advance notice that approximately 20 of those 70 officers will be kept, and that the rest will be surplus to requirements. The three-year contracts of a further 70 prison officers will terminate next year. Ms Sue Walker: Have you told them that they have lost their jobs? Mr McGINTY: Told whom? Ms Sue Walker: The 70 prison officers. Mr McGINTY: The next lot? Ms Sue Walker: The 70 prison officers. Mr McGINTY: Of course not. An assessment will need to be made next year about the number of prison officers who will be required in the light of the prison population at that time. Why on earth would the Government tell people that something will happen to them next year when we do not know the basis upon which that decision will be made? That might have been the way in which the member for Nedlands wanted to run the show, but we will employ the appropriate number of prison officers for the prison population. There has been a dramatic fall of about 1 000 people in the state prison population. The Government will not maintain the same number of prison officers that was employed to look after 3 000 prisoners - Ms Sue Walker: Is that figure accurate? The SPEAKER: Order, member for Nedlands! Mr McGINTY: I ask the member for Nedlands to zip it. The Government will not maintain prison officers at the level needed to look after 3 000 prisoners when there are only 2 000 in the government prison system. That is crystal clear. Mr Birney: Do you believe that the new DNA legislation will rapidly fill that hole in prison numbers? Mr McGINTY: It will have a significant impact. That is one reason the Government will need to review the next batch of 70 prison officers who are employed on three-year contracts. We will need to consider the impact of the DNA legislation when the Liberal Party eventually passes it through the Legislative Council and gets on with it. Several members interjected. Mr McGINTY: I am pleased to hear that. The member is obviously more up-to-date than I am on that matter. When that legislation comes into effect, I believe that it will have a significant impact on the clear-up rate and will ensure that people who should be in prison for committing serious offences are in prison. That impact will need to be offset against the reduction in the prison population that will occur as a result of the sentencing legislation that the Government will introduce next month. At the moment, the Prison Officers Union, with which I have regular dialogue, wants to maintain staffing levels to cover 3 000 prisoners when there are only 2 000 prisoners in the system. It is irresponsible for anyone to suggest that that is the appropriate level of staffing. The Government is reducing the prison population in this State. At the moment, Western Australia imprisons its citizens at a far higher rate than anywhere else in the country. The previous Government ran the most expensive prison system in Australia as well. All those factors are fluid. They will all have a significant impact. We must take those matters into account. The Government will employ in good jobs the number of prison officers that is needed to run the system. We will not artificially create employment for prison officers who are not needed. The previous Government found that those officers were not needed when it employed them on short-term contracts in the first place. Mr Birney: Are you proud of the fact that the prison population has dramatically reduced under the Labor Party? Mr McGINTY: The yardstick used by members opposite to measure the success of legislation was how many citizens it locked up. I regard that as an absolute admission of failure. No other State or Territory in Australia locks up minor offenders in the numbers or way they are locked up in Western Australia. Those people are more effectively punished outside the prisons. I am pleased that we are getting back to the norm. This Government treats the citizens of this State in a more sensible way. The economic rationalists opposite should consider that it costs $70 000 to keep one prisoner in prison for a year. That is taxpayers’ money that could be spent on schools, hospitals or a raft of other services. The Opposition wants the Government to spend precious dollars on locking up people who do not need to be locked up, because the nature of their offending is minor and they are not punished by imprisonment anywhere else in Australia. That economic irresponsibility on the part of the previous Government is being corrected by this Government. The SPEAKER: Order! Members who are not involved with the next item of business should carry on their conversations outside.
Ms Sue Walker: I am trying to get an answer. Government members: Bleat, bleat! The SPEAKER: Order, members! Mr McGINTY: The member is getting an answer. One of the things the previous Government did was to engage prison officers on short-term contracts, for three years, to deal with the very problem that caused the new prison to be built at Acacia, and that was an explosion in the prison population under that Government which necessitated prison officers being employed on short-term contracts while the new private prison was being built, in the knowledge that prisoners would then be transferred out of the state prison system into the privatised prison. The previous Government set up a short-term contract arrangement. Those contracts are now coming to an end at a time when the prison population in government prisons is falling. What does the member want us to do - keep them employed? Ms Sue Walker: Will you answer the question? Mr McGINTY: The answer is no, we will not do that, because we will employ the number of prison officers that are necessary to run safe prisons in this State. We are doing that as these contracts are expiring. In the first round - about three months ago - approximately 50 prison officers out of 70 whose contracts were to expire were offered permanent employment. The most recent round, which occurred about two weeks ago - Ms Sue Walker interjected. Mr McGINTY: The member for Nedlands should listen. She will be better informed if she does. Ms Sue Walker interjected. Mr McGINTY: The member will be better informed, because she is obviously not aware of the background to this matter. It is important that she understand it. Ms Sue Walker: You cannot tell me how many prisoners are in the prison system. Mr McGINTY: Yes, I can. Ms Sue Walker: No, you can’t. Mr McGINTY: I have already provided that information. The number varies on a daily, or even an hourly, basis. The member for Nedlands will discover that as she gets a bit more experience in dealing with these matters. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER: Members! Mr McGINTY: As those contracts were expiring, contracts were also expiring for the second batch of 70 contract prison officers who were engaged by the previous Government on a short-term basis to deal with the peak in the prison population. This Government has given those prison officers advance notice that approximately 20 of those 70 officers will be kept, and that the rest will be surplus to requirements. The three-year contracts of a further 70 prison officers will terminate next year. Ms Sue Walker: Have you told them that they have lost their jobs? Mr McGINTY: Told whom? Ms Sue Walker: The 70 prison officers. Mr McGINTY: The next lot? Ms Sue Walker: The 70 prison officers. Mr McGINTY: Of course not. An assessment will need to be made next year about the number of prison officers who will be required in the light of the prison population at that time. Why on earth would the Government tell people that something will happen to them next year when we do not know the basis upon which that decision will be made? That might have been the way in which the member for Nedlands wanted to run the show, but we will employ the appropriate number of prison officers for the prison population. There has been a dramatic fall of about 1 000 people in the state prison population. The Government will not maintain the same number of prison officers that was employed to look after 3 000 prisoners - Ms Sue Walker: Is that figure accurate? The SPEAKER: Order, member for Nedlands! Mr McGINTY: I ask the member for Nedlands to zip it. The Government will not maintain prison officers at the level needed to look after 3 000 prisoners when there are only 2 000 in the government prison system. That is crystal clear. Mr Birney: Do you believe that the new DNA legislation will rapidly fill that hole in prison numbers? Mr McGINTY: It will have a significant impact. That is one reason the Government will need to review the next batch of 70 prison officers who are employed on three-year contracts. We will need to consider the impact of the DNA legislation when the Liberal Party eventually passes it through the Legislative Council and gets on with it. Several members interjected. Mr McGINTY: I am pleased to hear that. The member is obviously more up-to-date than I am on that matter. When that legislation comes into effect, I believe that it will have a significant impact on the clear-up rate and will ensure that people who should be in prison for committing serious offences are in prison. That impact will need to be offset against the reduction in the prison population that will occur as a result of the sentencing legislation that the Government will introduce next month. At the moment, the Prison Officers Union, with which I have regular dialogue, wants to maintain staffing levels to cover 3 000 prisoners when there are only 2 000 prisoners in the system. It is irresponsible for anyone to suggest that that is the appropriate level of staffing. The Government is reducing the prison population in this State. At the moment, Western Australia imprisons its citizens at a far higher rate than anywhere else in the country. The previous Government ran the most expensive prison system in Australia as well. All those factors are fluid. They will all have a significant impact. We must take those matters into account. The Government will employ in good jobs the number of prison officers that is needed to run the system. We will not artificially create employment for prison officers who are not needed. The previous Government found that those officers were not needed when it employed them on short-term contracts in the first place. Mr Birney: Are you proud of the fact that the prison population has dramatically reduced under the Labor Party? Mr McGINTY: The yardstick used by members opposite to measure the success of legislation was how many citizens it locked up. I regard that as an absolute admission of failure. No other State or Territory in Australia locks up minor offenders in the numbers or way they are locked up in Western Australia. Those people are more effectively punished outside the prisons. I am pleased that we are getting back to the norm. This Government treats the citizens of this State in a more sensible way. The economic rationalists opposite should consider that it costs $70 000 to keep one prisoner in prison for a year. That is taxpayers’ money that could be spent on schools, hospitals or a raft of other services. The Opposition wants the Government to spend precious dollars on locking up people who do not need to be locked up, because the nature of their offending is minor and they are not punished by imprisonment anywhere else in Australia. That economic irresponsibility on the part of the previous Government is being corrected by this Government. The SPEAKER: Order! Members who are not involved with the next item of business should carry on their conversations outside.
Government members: Bleat, bleat! The SPEAKER: Order, members! Mr McGINTY: The member is getting an answer. One of the things the previous Government did was to engage prison officers on short-term contracts, for three years, to deal with the very problem that caused the new prison to be built at Acacia, and that was an explosion in the prison population under that Government which necessitated prison officers being employed on short-term contracts while the new private prison was being built, in the knowledge that prisoners would then be transferred out of the state prison system into the privatised prison. The previous Government set up a short-term contract arrangement. Those contracts are now coming to an end at a time when the prison population in government prisons is falling. What does the member want us to do - keep them employed? Ms Sue Walker: Will you answer the question? Mr McGINTY: The answer is no, we will not do that, because we will employ the number of prison officers that are necessary to run safe prisons in this State. We are doing that as these contracts are expiring. In the first round - about three months ago - approximately 50 prison officers out of 70 whose contracts were to expire were offered permanent employment. The most recent round, which occurred about two weeks ago - Ms Sue Walker interjected. Mr McGINTY: The member for Nedlands should listen. She will be better informed if she does. Ms Sue Walker interjected. Mr McGINTY: The member will be better informed, because she is obviously not aware of the background to this matter. It is important that she understand it. Ms Sue Walker: You cannot tell me how many prisoners are in the prison system. Mr McGINTY: Yes, I can. Ms Sue Walker: No, you can’t. Mr McGINTY: I have already provided that information. The number varies on a daily, or even an hourly, basis. The member for Nedlands will discover that as she gets a bit more experience in dealing with these matters. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER: Members! Mr McGINTY: As those contracts were expiring, contracts were also expiring for the second batch of 70 contract prison officers who were engaged by the previous Government on a short-term basis to deal with the peak in the prison population. This Government has given those prison officers advance notice that approximately 20 of those 70 officers will be kept, and that the rest will be surplus to requirements. The three-year contracts of a further 70 prison officers will terminate next year. Ms Sue Walker: Have you told them that they have lost their jobs? Mr McGINTY: Told whom? Ms Sue Walker: The 70 prison officers. Mr McGINTY: The next lot? Ms Sue Walker: The 70 prison officers. Mr McGINTY: Of course not. An assessment will need to be made next year about the number of prison officers who will be required in the light of the prison population at that time. Why on earth would the Government tell people that something will happen to them next year when we do not know the basis upon which that decision will be made? That might have been the way in which the member for Nedlands wanted to run the show, but we will employ the appropriate number of prison officers for the prison population. There has been a dramatic fall of about 1 000 people in the state prison population. The Government will not maintain the same number of prison officers that was employed to look after 3 000 prisoners - Ms Sue Walker: Is that figure accurate? The SPEAKER: Order, member for Nedlands! Mr McGINTY: I ask the member for Nedlands to zip it. The Government will not maintain prison officers at the level needed to look after 3 000 prisoners when there are only 2 000 in the government prison system. That is crystal clear. Mr Birney: Do you believe that the new DNA legislation will rapidly fill that hole in prison numbers? Mr McGINTY: It will have a significant impact. That is one reason the Government will need to review the next batch of 70 prison officers who are employed on three-year contracts. We will need to consider the impact of the DNA legislation when the Liberal Party eventually passes it through the Legislative Council and gets on with it. Several members interjected. Mr McGINTY: I am pleased to hear that. The member is obviously more up-to-date than I am on that matter. When that legislation comes into effect, I believe that it will have a significant impact on the clear-up rate and will ensure that people who should be in prison for committing serious offences are in prison. That impact will need to be offset against the reduction in the prison population that will occur as a result of the sentencing legislation that the Government will introduce next month. At the moment, the Prison Officers Union, with which I have regular dialogue, wants to maintain staffing levels to cover 3 000 prisoners when there are only 2 000 prisoners in the system. It is irresponsible for anyone to suggest that that is the appropriate level of staffing. The Government is reducing the prison population in this State. At the moment, Western Australia imprisons its citizens at a far higher rate than anywhere else in the country. The previous Government ran the most expensive prison system in Australia as well. All those factors are fluid. They will all have a significant impact. We must take those matters into account. The Government will employ in good jobs the number of prison officers that is needed to run the system. We will not artificially create employment for prison officers who are not needed. The previous Government found that those officers were not needed when it employed them on short-term contracts in the first place. Mr Birney: Are you proud of the fact that the prison population has dramatically reduced under the Labor Party? Mr McGINTY: The yardstick used by members opposite to measure the success of legislation was how many citizens it locked up. I regard that as an absolute admission of failure. No other State or Territory in Australia locks up minor offenders in the numbers or way they are locked up in Western Australia. Those people are more effectively punished outside the prisons. I am pleased that we are getting back to the norm. This Government treats the citizens of this State in a more sensible way. The economic rationalists opposite should consider that it costs $70 000 to keep one prisoner in prison for a year. That is taxpayers’ money that could be spent on schools, hospitals or a raft of other services. The Opposition wants the Government to spend precious dollars on locking up people who do not need to be locked up, because the nature of their offending is minor and they are not punished by imprisonment anywhere else in Australia. That economic irresponsibility on the part of the previous Government is being corrected by this Government. The SPEAKER: Order! Members who are not involved with the next item of business should carry on their conversations outside.
The SPEAKER: Order, members! Mr McGINTY: The member is getting an answer. One of the things the previous Government did was to engage prison officers on short-term contracts, for three years, to deal with the very problem that caused the new prison to be built at Acacia, and that was an explosion in the prison population under that Government which necessitated prison officers being employed on short-term contracts while the new private prison was being built, in the knowledge that prisoners would then be transferred out of the state prison system into the privatised prison. The previous Government set up a short-term contract arrangement. Those contracts are now coming to an end at a time when the prison population in government prisons is falling. What does the member want us to do - keep them employed? Ms Sue Walker: Will you answer the question? Mr McGINTY: The answer is no, we will not do that, because we will employ the number of prison officers that are necessary to run safe prisons in this State. We are doing that as these contracts are expiring. In the first round - about three months ago - approximately 50 prison officers out of 70 whose contracts were to expire were offered permanent employment. The most recent round, which occurred about two weeks ago - Ms Sue Walker interjected. Mr McGINTY: The member for Nedlands should listen. She will be better informed if she does. Ms Sue Walker interjected. Mr McGINTY: The member will be better informed, because she is obviously not aware of the background to this matter. It is important that she understand it. Ms Sue Walker: You cannot tell me how many prisoners are in the prison system. Mr McGINTY: Yes, I can. Ms Sue Walker: No, you can’t. Mr McGINTY: I have already provided that information. The number varies on a daily, or even an hourly, basis. The member for Nedlands will discover that as she gets a bit more experience in dealing with these matters. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER: Members! Mr McGINTY: As those contracts were expiring, contracts were also expiring for the second batch of 70 contract prison officers who were engaged by the previous Government on a short-term basis to deal with the peak in the prison population. This Government has given those prison officers advance notice that approximately 20 of those 70 officers will be kept, and that the rest will be surplus to requirements. The three-year contracts of a further 70 prison officers will terminate next year. Ms Sue Walker: Have you told them that they have lost their jobs? Mr McGINTY: Told whom? Ms Sue Walker: The 70 prison officers. Mr McGINTY: The next lot? Ms Sue Walker: The 70 prison officers. Mr McGINTY: Of course not. An assessment will need to be made next year about the number of prison officers who will be required in the light of the prison population at that time. Why on earth would the Government tell people that something will happen to them next year when we do not know the basis upon which that decision will be made? That might have been the way in which the member for Nedlands wanted to run the show, but we will employ the appropriate number of prison officers for the prison population. There has been a dramatic fall of about 1 000 people in the state prison population. The Government will not maintain the same number of prison officers that was employed to look after 3 000 prisoners - Ms Sue Walker: Is that figure accurate? The SPEAKER: Order, member for Nedlands! Mr McGINTY: I ask the member for Nedlands to zip it. The Government will not maintain prison officers at the level needed to look after 3 000 prisoners when there are only 2 000 in the government prison system. That is crystal clear. Mr Birney: Do you believe that the new DNA legislation will rapidly fill that hole in prison numbers? Mr McGINTY: It will have a significant impact. That is one reason the Government will need to review the next batch of 70 prison officers who are employed on three-year contracts. We will need to consider the impact of the DNA legislation when the Liberal Party eventually passes it through the Legislative Council and gets on with it. Several members interjected. Mr McGINTY: I am pleased to hear that. The member is obviously more up-to-date than I am on that matter. When that legislation comes into effect, I believe that it will have a significant impact on the clear-up rate and will ensure that people who should be in prison for committing serious offences are in prison. That impact will need to be offset against the reduction in the prison population that will occur as a result of the sentencing legislation that the Government will introduce next month. At the moment, the Prison Officers Union, with which I have regular dialogue, wants to maintain staffing levels to cover 3 000 prisoners when there are only 2 000 prisoners in the system. It is irresponsible for anyone to suggest that that is the appropriate level of staffing. The Government is reducing the prison population in this State. At the moment, Western Australia imprisons its citizens at a far higher rate than anywhere else in the country. The previous Government ran the most expensive prison system in Australia as well. All those factors are fluid. They will all have a significant impact. We must take those matters into account. The Government will employ in good jobs the number of prison officers that is needed to run the system. We will not artificially create employment for prison officers who are not needed. The previous Government found that those officers were not needed when it employed them on short-term contracts in the first place. Mr Birney: Are you proud of the fact that the prison population has dramatically reduced under the Labor Party? Mr McGINTY: The yardstick used by members opposite to measure the success of legislation was how many citizens it locked up. I regard that as an absolute admission of failure. No other State or Territory in Australia locks up minor offenders in the numbers or way they are locked up in Western Australia. Those people are more effectively punished outside the prisons. I am pleased that we are getting back to the norm. This Government treats the citizens of this State in a more sensible way. The economic rationalists opposite should consider that it costs $70 000 to keep one prisoner in prison for a year. That is taxpayers’ money that could be spent on schools, hospitals or a raft of other services. The Opposition wants the Government to spend precious dollars on locking up people who do not need to be locked up, because the nature of their offending is minor and they are not punished by imprisonment anywhere else in Australia. That economic irresponsibility on the part of the previous Government is being corrected by this Government. The SPEAKER: Order! Members who are not involved with the next item of business should carry on their conversations outside.
Mr McGINTY: The member is getting an answer. One of the things the previous Government did was to engage prison officers on short-term contracts, for three years, to deal with the very problem that caused the new prison to be built at Acacia, and that was an explosion in the prison population under that Government which necessitated prison officers being employed on short-term contracts while the new private prison was being built, in the knowledge that prisoners would then be transferred out of the state prison system into the privatised prison. The previous Government set up a short-term contract arrangement. Those contracts are now coming to an end at a time when the prison population in government prisons is falling. What does the member want us to do - keep them employed? Ms Sue Walker: Will you answer the question? Mr McGINTY: The answer is no, we will not do that, because we will employ the number of prison officers that are necessary to run safe prisons in this State. We are doing that as these contracts are expiring. In the first round - about three months ago - approximately 50 prison officers out of 70 whose contracts were to expire were offered permanent employment. The most recent round, which occurred about two weeks ago - Ms Sue Walker interjected. Mr McGINTY: The member for Nedlands should listen. She will be better informed if she does. Ms Sue Walker interjected. Mr McGINTY: The member will be better informed, because she is obviously not aware of the background to this matter. It is important that she understand it. Ms Sue Walker: You cannot tell me how many prisoners are in the prison system. Mr McGINTY: Yes, I can. Ms Sue Walker: No, you can’t. Mr McGINTY: I have already provided that information. The number varies on a daily, or even an hourly, basis. The member for Nedlands will discover that as she gets a bit more experience in dealing with these matters. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER: Members! Mr McGINTY: As those contracts were expiring, contracts were also expiring for the second batch of 70 contract prison officers who were engaged by the previous Government on a short-term basis to deal with the peak in the prison population. This Government has given those prison officers advance notice that approximately 20 of those 70 officers will be kept, and that the rest will be surplus to requirements. The three-year contracts of a further 70 prison officers will terminate next year. Ms Sue Walker: Have you told them that they have lost their jobs? Mr McGINTY: Told whom? Ms Sue Walker: The 70 prison officers. Mr McGINTY: The next lot? Ms Sue Walker: The 70 prison officers. Mr McGINTY: Of course not. An assessment will need to be made next year about the number of prison officers who will be required in the light of the prison population at that time. Why on earth would the Government tell people that something will happen to them next year when we do not know the basis upon which that decision will be made? That might have been the way in which the member for Nedlands wanted to run the show, but we will employ the appropriate number of prison officers for the prison population. There has been a dramatic fall of about 1 000 people in the state prison population. The Government will not maintain the same number of prison officers that was employed to look after 3 000 prisoners - Ms Sue Walker: Is that figure accurate? The SPEAKER: Order, member for Nedlands! Mr McGINTY: I ask the member for Nedlands to zip it. The Government will not maintain prison officers at the level needed to look after 3 000 prisoners when there are only 2 000 in the government prison system. That is crystal clear. Mr Birney: Do you believe that the new DNA legislation will rapidly fill that hole in prison numbers? Mr McGINTY: It will have a significant impact. That is one reason the Government will need to review the next batch of 70 prison officers who are employed on three-year contracts. We will need to consider the impact of the DNA legislation when the Liberal Party eventually passes it through the Legislative Council and gets on with it. Several members interjected. Mr McGINTY: I am pleased to hear that. The member is obviously more up-to-date than I am on that matter. When that legislation comes into effect, I believe that it will have a significant impact on the clear-up rate and will ensure that people who should be in prison for committing serious offences are in prison. That impact will need to be offset against the reduction in the prison population that will occur as a result of the sentencing legislation that the Government will introduce next month. At the moment, the Prison Officers Union, with which I have regular dialogue, wants to maintain staffing levels to cover 3 000 prisoners when there are only 2 000 prisoners in the system. It is irresponsible for anyone to suggest that that is the appropriate level of staffing. The Government is reducing the prison population in this State. At the moment, Western Australia imprisons its citizens at a far higher rate than anywhere else in the country. The previous Government ran the most expensive prison system in Australia as well. All those factors are fluid. They will all have a significant impact. We must take those matters into account. The Government will employ in good jobs the number of prison officers that is needed to run the system. We will not artificially create employment for prison officers who are not needed. The previous Government found that those officers were not needed when it employed them on short-term contracts in the first place. Mr Birney: Are you proud of the fact that the prison population has dramatically reduced under the Labor Party? Mr McGINTY: The yardstick used by members opposite to measure the success of legislation was how many citizens it locked up. I regard that as an absolute admission of failure. No other State or Territory in Australia locks up minor offenders in the numbers or way they are locked up in Western Australia. Those people are more effectively punished outside the prisons. I am pleased that we are getting back to the norm. This Government treats the citizens of this State in a more sensible way. The economic rationalists opposite should consider that it costs $70 000 to keep one prisoner in prison for a year. That is taxpayers’ money that could be spent on schools, hospitals or a raft of other services. The Opposition wants the Government to spend precious dollars on locking up people who do not need to be locked up, because the nature of their offending is minor and they are not punished by imprisonment anywhere else in Australia. That economic irresponsibility on the part of the previous Government is being corrected by this Government. The SPEAKER: Order! Members who are not involved with the next item of business should carry on their conversations outside.
Ms Sue Walker: Will you answer the question? Mr McGINTY: The answer is no, we will not do that, because we will employ the number of prison officers that are necessary to run safe prisons in this State. We are doing that as these contracts are expiring. In the first round - about three months ago - approximately 50 prison officers out of 70 whose contracts were to expire were offered permanent employment. The most recent round, which occurred about two weeks ago - Ms Sue Walker interjected. Mr McGINTY: The member for Nedlands should listen. She will be better informed if she does. Ms Sue Walker interjected. Mr McGINTY: The member will be better informed, because she is obviously not aware of the background to this matter. It is important that she understand it. Ms Sue Walker: You cannot tell me how many prisoners are in the prison system. Mr McGINTY: Yes, I can. Ms Sue Walker: No, you can’t. Mr McGINTY: I have already provided that information. The number varies on a daily, or even an hourly, basis. The member for Nedlands will discover that as she gets a bit more experience in dealing with these matters. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER: Members! Mr McGINTY: As those contracts were expiring, contracts were also expiring for the second batch of 70 contract prison officers who were engaged by the previous Government on a short-term basis to deal with the peak in the prison population. This Government has given those prison officers advance notice that approximately 20 of those 70 officers will be kept, and that the rest will be surplus to requirements. The three-year contracts of a further 70 prison officers will terminate next year. Ms Sue Walker: Have you told them that they have lost their jobs? Mr McGINTY: Told whom? Ms Sue Walker: The 70 prison officers. Mr McGINTY: The next lot? Ms Sue Walker: The 70 prison officers. Mr McGINTY: Of course not. An assessment will need to be made next year about the number of prison officers who will be required in the light of the prison population at that time. Why on earth would the Government tell people that something will happen to them next year when we do not know the basis upon which that decision will be made? That might have been the way in which the member for Nedlands wanted to run the show, but we will employ the appropriate number of prison officers for the prison population. There has been a dramatic fall of about 1 000 people in the state prison population. The Government will not maintain the same number of prison officers that was employed to look after 3 000 prisoners - Ms Sue Walker: Is that figure accurate? The SPEAKER: Order, member for Nedlands! Mr McGINTY: I ask the member for Nedlands to zip it. The Government will not maintain prison officers at the level needed to look after 3 000 prisoners when there are only 2 000 in the government prison system. That is crystal clear. Mr Birney: Do you believe that the new DNA legislation will rapidly fill that hole in prison numbers? Mr McGINTY: It will have a significant impact. That is one reason the Government will need to review the next batch of 70 prison officers who are employed on three-year contracts. We will need to consider the impact of the DNA legislation when the Liberal Party eventually passes it through the Legislative Council and gets on with it. Several members interjected. Mr McGINTY: I am pleased to hear that. The member is obviously more up-to-date than I am on that matter. When that legislation comes into effect, I believe that it will have a significant impact on the clear-up rate and will ensure that people who should be in prison for committing serious offences are in prison. That impact will need to be offset against the reduction in the prison population that will occur as a result of the sentencing legislation that the Government will introduce next month. At the moment, the Prison Officers Union, with which I have regular dialogue, wants to maintain staffing levels to cover 3 000 prisoners when there are only 2 000 prisoners in the system. It is irresponsible for anyone to suggest that that is the appropriate level of staffing. The Government is reducing the prison population in this State. At the moment, Western Australia imprisons its citizens at a far higher rate than anywhere else in the country. The previous Government ran the most expensive prison system in Australia as well. All those factors are fluid. They will all have a significant impact. We must take those matters into account. The Government will employ in good jobs the number of prison officers that is needed to run the system. We will not artificially create employment for prison officers who are not needed. The previous Government found that those officers were not needed when it employed them on short-term contracts in the first place. Mr Birney: Are you proud of the fact that the prison population has dramatically reduced under the Labor Party? Mr McGINTY: The yardstick used by members opposite to measure the success of legislation was how many citizens it locked up. I regard that as an absolute admission of failure. No other State or Territory in Australia locks up minor offenders in the numbers or way they are locked up in Western Australia. Those people are more effectively punished outside the prisons. I am pleased that we are getting back to the norm. This Government treats the citizens of this State in a more sensible way. The economic rationalists opposite should consider that it costs $70 000 to keep one prisoner in prison for a year. That is taxpayers’ money that could be spent on schools, hospitals or a raft of other services. The Opposition wants the Government to spend precious dollars on locking up people who do not need to be locked up, because the nature of their offending is minor and they are not punished by imprisonment anywhere else in Australia. That economic irresponsibility on the part of the previous Government is being corrected by this Government. The SPEAKER: Order! Members who are not involved with the next item of business should carry on their conversations outside.
Mr McGINTY: The answer is no, we will not do that, because we will employ the number of prison officers that are necessary to run safe prisons in this State. We are doing that as these contracts are expiring. In the first round - about three months ago - approximately 50 prison officers out of 70 whose contracts were to expire were offered permanent employment. The most recent round, which occurred about two weeks ago - Ms Sue Walker interjected. Mr McGINTY: The member for Nedlands should listen. She will be better informed if she does. Ms Sue Walker interjected. Mr McGINTY: The member will be better informed, because she is obviously not aware of the background to this matter. It is important that she understand it. Ms Sue Walker: You cannot tell me how many prisoners are in the prison system. Mr McGINTY: Yes, I can. Ms Sue Walker: No, you can’t. Mr McGINTY: I have already provided that information. The number varies on a daily, or even an hourly, basis. The member for Nedlands will discover that as she gets a bit more experience in dealing with these matters. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER: Members! Mr McGINTY: As those contracts were expiring, contracts were also expiring for the second batch of 70 contract prison officers who were engaged by the previous Government on a short-term basis to deal with the peak in the prison population. This Government has given those prison officers advance notice that approximately 20 of those 70 officers will be kept, and that the rest will be surplus to requirements. The three-year contracts of a further 70 prison officers will terminate next year. Ms Sue Walker: Have you told them that they have lost their jobs? Mr McGINTY: Told whom? Ms Sue Walker: The 70 prison officers. Mr McGINTY: The next lot? Ms Sue Walker: The 70 prison officers. Mr McGINTY: Of course not. An assessment will need to be made next year about the number of prison officers who will be required in the light of the prison population at that time. Why on earth would the Government tell people that something will happen to them next year when we do not know the basis upon which that decision will be made? That might have been the way in which the member for Nedlands wanted to run the show, but we will employ the appropriate number of prison officers for the prison population. There has been a dramatic fall of about 1 000 people in the state prison population. The Government will not maintain the same number of prison officers that was employed to look after 3 000 prisoners - Ms Sue Walker: Is that figure accurate? The SPEAKER: Order, member for Nedlands! Mr McGINTY: I ask the member for Nedlands to zip it. The Government will not maintain prison officers at the level needed to look after 3 000 prisoners when there are only 2 000 in the government prison system. That is crystal clear. Mr Birney: Do you believe that the new DNA legislation will rapidly fill that hole in prison numbers? Mr McGINTY: It will have a significant impact. That is one reason the Government will need to review the next batch of 70 prison officers who are employed on three-year contracts. We will need to consider the impact of the DNA legislation when the Liberal Party eventually passes it through the Legislative Council and gets on with it. Several members interjected. Mr McGINTY: I am pleased to hear that. The member is obviously more up-to-date than I am on that matter. When that legislation comes into effect, I believe that it will have a significant impact on the clear-up rate and will ensure that people who should be in prison for committing serious offences are in prison. That impact will need to be offset against the reduction in the prison population that will occur as a result of the sentencing legislation that the Government will introduce next month. At the moment, the Prison Officers Union, with which I have regular dialogue, wants to maintain staffing levels to cover 3 000 prisoners when there are only 2 000 prisoners in the system. It is irresponsible for anyone to suggest that that is the appropriate level of staffing. The Government is reducing the prison population in this State. At the moment, Western Australia imprisons its citizens at a far higher rate than anywhere else in the country. The previous Government ran the most expensive prison system in Australia as well. All those factors are fluid. They will all have a significant impact. We must take those matters into account. The Government will employ in good jobs the number of prison officers that is needed to run the system. We will not artificially create employment for prison officers who are not needed. The previous Government found that those officers were not needed when it employed them on short-term contracts in the first place. Mr Birney: Are you proud of the fact that the prison population has dramatically reduced under the Labor Party? Mr McGINTY: The yardstick used by members opposite to measure the success of legislation was how many citizens it locked up. I regard that as an absolute admission of failure. No other State or Territory in Australia locks up minor offenders in the numbers or way they are locked up in Western Australia. Those people are more effectively punished outside the prisons. I am pleased that we are getting back to the norm. This Government treats the citizens of this State in a more sensible way. The economic rationalists opposite should consider that it costs $70 000 to keep one prisoner in prison for a year. That is taxpayers’ money that could be spent on schools, hospitals or a raft of other services. The Opposition wants the Government to spend precious dollars on locking up people who do not need to be locked up, because the nature of their offending is minor and they are not punished by imprisonment anywhere else in Australia. That economic irresponsibility on the part of the previous Government is being corrected by this Government. The SPEAKER: Order! Members who are not involved with the next item of business should carry on their conversations outside.
Ms Sue Walker interjected. Mr McGINTY: The member for Nedlands should listen. She will be better informed if she does. Ms Sue Walker interjected. Mr McGINTY: The member will be better informed, because she is obviously not aware of the background to this matter. It is important that she understand it. Ms Sue Walker: You cannot tell me how many prisoners are in the prison system. Mr McGINTY: Yes, I can. Ms Sue Walker: No, you can’t. Mr McGINTY: I have already provided that information. The number varies on a daily, or even an hourly, basis. The member for Nedlands will discover that as she gets a bit more experience in dealing with these matters. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER: Members! Mr McGINTY: As those contracts were expiring, contracts were also expiring for the second batch of 70 contract prison officers who were engaged by the previous Government on a short-term basis to deal with the peak in the prison population. This Government has given those prison officers advance notice that approximately 20 of those 70 officers will be kept, and that the rest will be surplus to requirements. The three-year contracts of a further 70 prison officers will terminate next year. Ms Sue Walker: Have you told them that they have lost their jobs? Mr McGINTY: Told whom? Ms Sue Walker: The 70 prison officers. Mr McGINTY: The next lot? Ms Sue Walker: The 70 prison officers. Mr McGINTY: Of course not. An assessment will need to be made next year about the number of prison officers who will be required in the light of the prison population at that time. Why on earth would the Government tell people that something will happen to them next year when we do not know the basis upon which that decision will be made? That might have been the way in which the member for Nedlands wanted to run the show, but we will employ the appropriate number of prison officers for the prison population. There has been a dramatic fall of about 1 000 people in the state prison population. The Government will not maintain the same number of prison officers that was employed to look after 3 000 prisoners - Ms Sue Walker: Is that figure accurate? The SPEAKER: Order, member for Nedlands! Mr McGINTY: I ask the member for Nedlands to zip it. The Government will not maintain prison officers at the level needed to look after 3 000 prisoners when there are only 2 000 in the government prison system. That is crystal clear. Mr Birney: Do you believe that the new DNA legislation will rapidly fill that hole in prison numbers? Mr McGINTY: It will have a significant impact. That is one reason the Government will need to review the next batch of 70 prison officers who are employed on three-year contracts. We will need to consider the impact of the DNA legislation when the Liberal Party eventually passes it through the Legislative Council and gets on with it. Several members interjected. Mr McGINTY: I am pleased to hear that. The member is obviously more up-to-date than I am on that matter. When that legislation comes into effect, I believe that it will have a significant impact on the clear-up rate and will ensure that people who should be in prison for committing serious offences are in prison. That impact will need to be offset against the reduction in the prison population that will occur as a result of the sentencing legislation that the Government will introduce next month. At the moment, the Prison Officers Union, with which I have regular dialogue, wants to maintain staffing levels to cover 3 000 prisoners when there are only 2 000 prisoners in the system. It is irresponsible for anyone to suggest that that is the appropriate level of staffing. The Government is reducing the prison population in this State. At the moment, Western Australia imprisons its citizens at a far higher rate than anywhere else in the country. The previous Government ran the most expensive prison system in Australia as well. All those factors are fluid. They will all have a significant impact. We must take those matters into account. The Government will employ in good jobs the number of prison officers that is needed to run the system. We will not artificially create employment for prison officers who are not needed. The previous Government found that those officers were not needed when it employed them on short-term contracts in the first place. Mr Birney: Are you proud of the fact that the prison population has dramatically reduced under the Labor Party? Mr McGINTY: The yardstick used by members opposite to measure the success of legislation was how many citizens it locked up. I regard that as an absolute admission of failure. No other State or Territory in Australia locks up minor offenders in the numbers or way they are locked up in Western Australia. Those people are more effectively punished outside the prisons. I am pleased that we are getting back to the norm. This Government treats the citizens of this State in a more sensible way. The economic rationalists opposite should consider that it costs $70 000 to keep one prisoner in prison for a year. That is taxpayers’ money that could be spent on schools, hospitals or a raft of other services. The Opposition wants the Government to spend precious dollars on locking up people who do not need to be locked up, because the nature of their offending is minor and they are not punished by imprisonment anywhere else in Australia. That economic irresponsibility on the part of the previous Government is being corrected by this Government. The SPEAKER: Order! Members who are not involved with the next item of business should carry on their conversations outside.
Mr McGINTY: The member for Nedlands should listen. She will be better informed if she does. Ms Sue Walker interjected. Mr McGINTY: The member will be better informed, because she is obviously not aware of the background to this matter. It is important that she understand it. Ms Sue Walker: You cannot tell me how many prisoners are in the prison system. Mr McGINTY: Yes, I can. Ms Sue Walker: No, you can’t. Mr McGINTY: I have already provided that information. The number varies on a daily, or even an hourly, basis. The member for Nedlands will discover that as she gets a bit more experience in dealing with these matters. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER: Members! Mr McGINTY: As those contracts were expiring, contracts were also expiring for the second batch of 70 contract prison officers who were engaged by the previous Government on a short-term basis to deal with the peak in the prison population. This Government has given those prison officers advance notice that approximately 20 of those 70 officers will be kept, and that the rest will be surplus to requirements. The three-year contracts of a further 70 prison officers will terminate next year. Ms Sue Walker: Have you told them that they have lost their jobs? Mr McGINTY: Told whom? Ms Sue Walker: The 70 prison officers. Mr McGINTY: The next lot? Ms Sue Walker: The 70 prison officers. Mr McGINTY: Of course not. An assessment will need to be made next year about the number of prison officers who will be required in the light of the prison population at that time. Why on earth would the Government tell people that something will happen to them next year when we do not know the basis upon which that decision will be made? That might have been the way in which the member for Nedlands wanted to run the show, but we will employ the appropriate number of prison officers for the prison population. There has been a dramatic fall of about 1 000 people in the state prison population. The Government will not maintain the same number of prison officers that was employed to look after 3 000 prisoners - Ms Sue Walker: Is that figure accurate? The SPEAKER: Order, member for Nedlands! Mr McGINTY: I ask the member for Nedlands to zip it. The Government will not maintain prison officers at the level needed to look after 3 000 prisoners when there are only 2 000 in the government prison system. That is crystal clear. Mr Birney: Do you believe that the new DNA legislation will rapidly fill that hole in prison numbers? Mr McGINTY: It will have a significant impact. That is one reason the Government will need to review the next batch of 70 prison officers who are employed on three-year contracts. We will need to consider the impact of the DNA legislation when the Liberal Party eventually passes it through the Legislative Council and gets on with it. Several members interjected. Mr McGINTY: I am pleased to hear that. The member is obviously more up-to-date than I am on that matter. When that legislation comes into effect, I believe that it will have a significant impact on the clear-up rate and will ensure that people who should be in prison for committing serious offences are in prison. That impact will need to be offset against the reduction in the prison population that will occur as a result of the sentencing legislation that the Government will introduce next month. At the moment, the Prison Officers Union, with which I have regular dialogue, wants to maintain staffing levels to cover 3 000 prisoners when there are only 2 000 prisoners in the system. It is irresponsible for anyone to suggest that that is the appropriate level of staffing. The Government is reducing the prison population in this State. At the moment, Western Australia imprisons its citizens at a far higher rate than anywhere else in the country. The previous Government ran the most expensive prison system in Australia as well. All those factors are fluid. They will all have a significant impact. We must take those matters into account. The Government will employ in good jobs the number of prison officers that is needed to run the system. We will not artificially create employment for prison officers who are not needed. The previous Government found that those officers were not needed when it employed them on short-term contracts in the first place. Mr Birney: Are you proud of the fact that the prison population has dramatically reduced under the Labor Party? Mr McGINTY: The yardstick used by members opposite to measure the success of legislation was how many citizens it locked up. I regard that as an absolute admission of failure. No other State or Territory in Australia locks up minor offenders in the numbers or way they are locked up in Western Australia. Those people are more effectively punished outside the prisons. I am pleased that we are getting back to the norm. This Government treats the citizens of this State in a more sensible way. The economic rationalists opposite should consider that it costs $70 000 to keep one prisoner in prison for a year. That is taxpayers’ money that could be spent on schools, hospitals or a raft of other services. The Opposition wants the Government to spend precious dollars on locking up people who do not need to be locked up, because the nature of their offending is minor and they are not punished by imprisonment anywhere else in Australia. That economic irresponsibility on the part of the previous Government is being corrected by this Government. The SPEAKER: Order! Members who are not involved with the next item of business should carry on their conversations outside.
Ms Sue Walker interjected. Mr McGINTY: The member will be better informed, because she is obviously not aware of the background to this matter. It is important that she understand it. Ms Sue Walker: You cannot tell me how many prisoners are in the prison system. Mr McGINTY: Yes, I can. Ms Sue Walker: No, you can’t. Mr McGINTY: I have already provided that information. The number varies on a daily, or even an hourly, basis. The member for Nedlands will discover that as she gets a bit more experience in dealing with these matters. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER: Members! Mr McGINTY: As those contracts were expiring, contracts were also expiring for the second batch of 70 contract prison officers who were engaged by the previous Government on a short-term basis to deal with the peak in the prison population. This Government has given those prison officers advance notice that approximately 20 of those 70 officers will be kept, and that the rest will be surplus to requirements. The three-year contracts of a further 70 prison officers will terminate next year. Ms Sue Walker: Have you told them that they have lost their jobs? Mr McGINTY: Told whom? Ms Sue Walker: The 70 prison officers. Mr McGINTY: The next lot? Ms Sue Walker: The 70 prison officers. Mr McGINTY: Of course not. An assessment will need to be made next year about the number of prison officers who will be required in the light of the prison population at that time. Why on earth would the Government tell people that something will happen to them next year when we do not know the basis upon which that decision will be made? That might have been the way in which the member for Nedlands wanted to run the show, but we will employ the appropriate number of prison officers for the prison population. There has been a dramatic fall of about 1 000 people in the state prison population. The Government will not maintain the same number of prison officers that was employed to look after 3 000 prisoners - Ms Sue Walker: Is that figure accurate? The SPEAKER: Order, member for Nedlands! Mr McGINTY: I ask the member for Nedlands to zip it. The Government will not maintain prison officers at the level needed to look after 3 000 prisoners when there are only 2 000 in the government prison system. That is crystal clear. Mr Birney: Do you believe that the new DNA legislation will rapidly fill that hole in prison numbers? Mr McGINTY: It will have a significant impact. That is one reason the Government will need to review the next batch of 70 prison officers who are employed on three-year contracts. We will need to consider the impact of the DNA legislation when the Liberal Party eventually passes it through the Legislative Council and gets on with it. Several members interjected. Mr McGINTY: I am pleased to hear that. The member is obviously more up-to-date than I am on that matter. When that legislation comes into effect, I believe that it will have a significant impact on the clear-up rate and will ensure that people who should be in prison for committing serious offences are in prison. That impact will need to be offset against the reduction in the prison population that will occur as a result of the sentencing legislation that the Government will introduce next month. At the moment, the Prison Officers Union, with which I have regular dialogue, wants to maintain staffing levels to cover 3 000 prisoners when there are only 2 000 prisoners in the system. It is irresponsible for anyone to suggest that that is the appropriate level of staffing. The Government is reducing the prison population in this State. At the moment, Western Australia imprisons its citizens at a far higher rate than anywhere else in the country. The previous Government ran the most expensive prison system in Australia as well. All those factors are fluid. They will all have a significant impact. We must take those matters into account. The Government will employ in good jobs the number of prison officers that is needed to run the system. We will not artificially create employment for prison officers who are not needed. The previous Government found that those officers were not needed when it employed them on short-term contracts in the first place. Mr Birney: Are you proud of the fact that the prison population has dramatically reduced under the Labor Party? Mr McGINTY: The yardstick used by members opposite to measure the success of legislation was how many citizens it locked up. I regard that as an absolute admission of failure. No other State or Territory in Australia locks up minor offenders in the numbers or way they are locked up in Western Australia. Those people are more effectively punished outside the prisons. I am pleased that we are getting back to the norm. This Government treats the citizens of this State in a more sensible way. The economic rationalists opposite should consider that it costs $70 000 to keep one prisoner in prison for a year. That is taxpayers’ money that could be spent on schools, hospitals or a raft of other services. The Opposition wants the Government to spend precious dollars on locking up people who do not need to be locked up, because the nature of their offending is minor and they are not punished by imprisonment anywhere else in Australia. That economic irresponsibility on the part of the previous Government is being corrected by this Government. The SPEAKER: Order! Members who are not involved with the next item of business should carry on their conversations outside.
Mr McGINTY: The member will be better informed, because she is obviously not aware of the background to this matter. It is important that she understand it. Ms Sue Walker: You cannot tell me how many prisoners are in the prison system. Mr McGINTY: Yes, I can. Ms Sue Walker: No, you can’t. Mr McGINTY: I have already provided that information. The number varies on a daily, or even an hourly, basis. The member for Nedlands will discover that as she gets a bit more experience in dealing with these matters. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER: Members! Mr McGINTY: As those contracts were expiring, contracts were also expiring for the second batch of 70 contract prison officers who were engaged by the previous Government on a short-term basis to deal with the peak in the prison population. This Government has given those prison officers advance notice that approximately 20 of those 70 officers will be kept, and that the rest will be surplus to requirements. The three-year contracts of a further 70 prison officers will terminate next year. Ms Sue Walker: Have you told them that they have lost their jobs? Mr McGINTY: Told whom? Ms Sue Walker: The 70 prison officers. Mr McGINTY: The next lot? Ms Sue Walker: The 70 prison officers. Mr McGINTY: Of course not. An assessment will need to be made next year about the number of prison officers who will be required in the light of the prison population at that time. Why on earth would the Government tell people that something will happen to them next year when we do not know the basis upon which that decision will be made? That might have been the way in which the member for Nedlands wanted to run the show, but we will employ the appropriate number of prison officers for the prison population. There has been a dramatic fall of about 1 000 people in the state prison population. The Government will not maintain the same number of prison officers that was employed to look after 3 000 prisoners - Ms Sue Walker: Is that figure accurate? The SPEAKER: Order, member for Nedlands! Mr McGINTY: I ask the member for Nedlands to zip it. The Government will not maintain prison officers at the level needed to look after 3 000 prisoners when there are only 2 000 in the government prison system. That is crystal clear. Mr Birney: Do you believe that the new DNA legislation will rapidly fill that hole in prison numbers? Mr McGINTY: It will have a significant impact. That is one reason the Government will need to review the next batch of 70 prison officers who are employed on three-year contracts. We will need to consider the impact of the DNA legislation when the Liberal Party eventually passes it through the Legislative Council and gets on with it. Several members interjected. Mr McGINTY: I am pleased to hear that. The member is obviously more up-to-date than I am on that matter. When that legislation comes into effect, I believe that it will have a significant impact on the clear-up rate and will ensure that people who should be in prison for committing serious offences are in prison. That impact will need to be offset against the reduction in the prison population that will occur as a result of the sentencing legislation that the Government will introduce next month. At the moment, the Prison Officers Union, with which I have regular dialogue, wants to maintain staffing levels to cover 3 000 prisoners when there are only 2 000 prisoners in the system. It is irresponsible for anyone to suggest that that is the appropriate level of staffing. The Government is reducing the prison population in this State. At the moment, Western Australia imprisons its citizens at a far higher rate than anywhere else in the country. The previous Government ran the most expensive prison system in Australia as well. All those factors are fluid. They will all have a significant impact. We must take those matters into account. The Government will employ in good jobs the number of prison officers that is needed to run the system. We will not artificially create employment for prison officers who are not needed. The previous Government found that those officers were not needed when it employed them on short-term contracts in the first place. Mr Birney: Are you proud of the fact that the prison population has dramatically reduced under the Labor Party? Mr McGINTY: The yardstick used by members opposite to measure the success of legislation was how many citizens it locked up. I regard that as an absolute admission of failure. No other State or Territory in Australia locks up minor offenders in the numbers or way they are locked up in Western Australia. Those people are more effectively punished outside the prisons. I am pleased that we are getting back to the norm. This Government treats the citizens of this State in a more sensible way. The economic rationalists opposite should consider that it costs $70 000 to keep one prisoner in prison for a year. That is taxpayers’ money that could be spent on schools, hospitals or a raft of other services. The Opposition wants the Government to spend precious dollars on locking up people who do not need to be locked up, because the nature of their offending is minor and they are not punished by imprisonment anywhere else in Australia. That economic irresponsibility on the part of the previous Government is being corrected by this Government. The SPEAKER: Order! Members who are not involved with the next item of business should carry on their conversations outside.
Ms Sue Walker: You cannot tell me how many prisoners are in the prison system. Mr McGINTY: Yes, I can. Ms Sue Walker: No, you can’t. Mr McGINTY: I have already provided that information. The number varies on a daily, or even an hourly, basis. The member for Nedlands will discover that as she gets a bit more experience in dealing with these matters. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER: Members! Mr McGINTY: As those contracts were expiring, contracts were also expiring for the second batch of 70 contract prison officers who were engaged by the previous Government on a short-term basis to deal with the peak in the prison population. This Government has given those prison officers advance notice that approximately 20 of those 70 officers will be kept, and that the rest will be surplus to requirements. The three-year contracts of a further 70 prison officers will terminate next year. Ms Sue Walker: Have you told them that they have lost their jobs? Mr McGINTY: Told whom? Ms Sue Walker: The 70 prison officers. Mr McGINTY: The next lot? Ms Sue Walker: The 70 prison officers. Mr McGINTY: Of course not. An assessment will need to be made next year about the number of prison officers who will be required in the light of the prison population at that time. Why on earth would the Government tell people that something will happen to them next year when we do not know the basis upon which that decision will be made? That might have been the way in which the member for Nedlands wanted to run the show, but we will employ the appropriate number of prison officers for the prison population. There has been a dramatic fall of about 1 000 people in the state prison population. The Government will not maintain the same number of prison officers that was employed to look after 3 000 prisoners - Ms Sue Walker: Is that figure accurate? The SPEAKER: Order, member for Nedlands! Mr McGINTY: I ask the member for Nedlands to zip it. The Government will not maintain prison officers at the level needed to look after 3 000 prisoners when there are only 2 000 in the government prison system. That is crystal clear. Mr Birney: Do you believe that the new DNA legislation will rapidly fill that hole in prison numbers? Mr McGINTY: It will have a significant impact. That is one reason the Government will need to review the next batch of 70 prison officers who are employed on three-year contracts. We will need to consider the impact of the DNA legislation when the Liberal Party eventually passes it through the Legislative Council and gets on with it. Several members interjected. Mr McGINTY: I am pleased to hear that. The member is obviously more up-to-date than I am on that matter. When that legislation comes into effect, I believe that it will have a significant impact on the clear-up rate and will ensure that people who should be in prison for committing serious offences are in prison. That impact will need to be offset against the reduction in the prison population that will occur as a result of the sentencing legislation that the Government will introduce next month. At the moment, the Prison Officers Union, with which I have regular dialogue, wants to maintain staffing levels to cover 3 000 prisoners when there are only 2 000 prisoners in the system. It is irresponsible for anyone to suggest that that is the appropriate level of staffing. The Government is reducing the prison population in this State. At the moment, Western Australia imprisons its citizens at a far higher rate than anywhere else in the country. The previous Government ran the most expensive prison system in Australia as well. All those factors are fluid. They will all have a significant impact. We must take those matters into account. The Government will employ in good jobs the number of prison officers that is needed to run the system. We will not artificially create employment for prison officers who are not needed. The previous Government found that those officers were not needed when it employed them on short-term contracts in the first place. Mr Birney: Are you proud of the fact that the prison population has dramatically reduced under the Labor Party? Mr McGINTY: The yardstick used by members opposite to measure the success of legislation was how many citizens it locked up. I regard that as an absolute admission of failure. No other State or Territory in Australia locks up minor offenders in the numbers or way they are locked up in Western Australia. Those people are more effectively punished outside the prisons. I am pleased that we are getting back to the norm. This Government treats the citizens of this State in a more sensible way. The economic rationalists opposite should consider that it costs $70 000 to keep one prisoner in prison for a year. That is taxpayers’ money that could be spent on schools, hospitals or a raft of other services. The Opposition wants the Government to spend precious dollars on locking up people who do not need to be locked up, because the nature of their offending is minor and they are not punished by imprisonment anywhere else in Australia. That economic irresponsibility on the part of the previous Government is being corrected by this Government. The SPEAKER: Order! Members who are not involved with the next item of business should carry on their conversations outside.
Mr McGINTY: Yes, I can. Ms Sue Walker: No, you can’t. Mr McGINTY: I have already provided that information. The number varies on a daily, or even an hourly, basis. The member for Nedlands will discover that as she gets a bit more experience in dealing with these matters. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER: Members! Mr McGINTY: As those contracts were expiring, contracts were also expiring for the second batch of 70 contract prison officers who were engaged by the previous Government on a short-term basis to deal with the peak in the prison population. This Government has given those prison officers advance notice that approximately 20 of those 70 officers will be kept, and that the rest will be surplus to requirements. The three-year contracts of a further 70 prison officers will terminate next year. Ms Sue Walker: Have you told them that they have lost their jobs? Mr McGINTY: Told whom? Ms Sue Walker: The 70 prison officers. Mr McGINTY: The next lot? Ms Sue Walker: The 70 prison officers. Mr McGINTY: Of course not. An assessment will need to be made next year about the number of prison officers who will be required in the light of the prison population at that time. Why on earth would the Government tell people that something will happen to them next year when we do not know the basis upon which that decision will be made? That might have been the way in which the member for Nedlands wanted to run the show, but we will employ the appropriate number of prison officers for the prison population. There has been a dramatic fall of about 1 000 people in the state prison population. The Government will not maintain the same number of prison officers that was employed to look after 3 000 prisoners - Ms Sue Walker: Is that figure accurate? The SPEAKER: Order, member for Nedlands! Mr McGINTY: I ask the member for Nedlands to zip it. The Government will not maintain prison officers at the level needed to look after 3 000 prisoners when there are only 2 000 in the government prison system. That is crystal clear. Mr Birney: Do you believe that the new DNA legislation will rapidly fill that hole in prison numbers? Mr McGINTY: It will have a significant impact. That is one reason the Government will need to review the next batch of 70 prison officers who are employed on three-year contracts. We will need to consider the impact of the DNA legislation when the Liberal Party eventually passes it through the Legislative Council and gets on with it. Several members interjected. Mr McGINTY: I am pleased to hear that. The member is obviously more up-to-date than I am on that matter. When that legislation comes into effect, I believe that it will have a significant impact on the clear-up rate and will ensure that people who should be in prison for committing serious offences are in prison. That impact will need to be offset against the reduction in the prison population that will occur as a result of the sentencing legislation that the Government will introduce next month. At the moment, the Prison Officers Union, with which I have regular dialogue, wants to maintain staffing levels to cover 3 000 prisoners when there are only 2 000 prisoners in the system. It is irresponsible for anyone to suggest that that is the appropriate level of staffing. The Government is reducing the prison population in this State. At the moment, Western Australia imprisons its citizens at a far higher rate than anywhere else in the country. The previous Government ran the most expensive prison system in Australia as well. All those factors are fluid. They will all have a significant impact. We must take those matters into account. The Government will employ in good jobs the number of prison officers that is needed to run the system. We will not artificially create employment for prison officers who are not needed. The previous Government found that those officers were not needed when it employed them on short-term contracts in the first place. Mr Birney: Are you proud of the fact that the prison population has dramatically reduced under the Labor Party? Mr McGINTY: The yardstick used by members opposite to measure the success of legislation was how many citizens it locked up. I regard that as an absolute admission of failure. No other State or Territory in Australia locks up minor offenders in the numbers or way they are locked up in Western Australia. Those people are more effectively punished outside the prisons. I am pleased that we are getting back to the norm. This Government treats the citizens of this State in a more sensible way. The economic rationalists opposite should consider that it costs $70 000 to keep one prisoner in prison for a year. That is taxpayers’ money that could be spent on schools, hospitals or a raft of other services. The Opposition wants the Government to spend precious dollars on locking up people who do not need to be locked up, because the nature of their offending is minor and they are not punished by imprisonment anywhere else in Australia. That economic irresponsibility on the part of the previous Government is being corrected by this Government. The SPEAKER: Order! Members who are not involved with the next item of business should carry on their conversations outside.
Ms Sue Walker: No, you can’t. Mr McGINTY: I have already provided that information. The number varies on a daily, or even an hourly, basis. The member for Nedlands will discover that as she gets a bit more experience in dealing with these matters. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER: Members! Mr McGINTY: As those contracts were expiring, contracts were also expiring for the second batch of 70 contract prison officers who were engaged by the previous Government on a short-term basis to deal with the peak in the prison population. This Government has given those prison officers advance notice that approximately 20 of those 70 officers will be kept, and that the rest will be surplus to requirements. The three-year contracts of a further 70 prison officers will terminate next year. Ms Sue Walker: Have you told them that they have lost their jobs? Mr McGINTY: Told whom? Ms Sue Walker: The 70 prison officers. Mr McGINTY: The next lot? Ms Sue Walker: The 70 prison officers. Mr McGINTY: Of course not. An assessment will need to be made next year about the number of prison officers who will be required in the light of the prison population at that time. Why on earth would the Government tell people that something will happen to them next year when we do not know the basis upon which that decision will be made? That might have been the way in which the member for Nedlands wanted to run the show, but we will employ the appropriate number of prison officers for the prison population. There has been a dramatic fall of about 1 000 people in the state prison population. The Government will not maintain the same number of prison officers that was employed to look after 3 000 prisoners - Ms Sue Walker: Is that figure accurate? The SPEAKER: Order, member for Nedlands! Mr McGINTY: I ask the member for Nedlands to zip it. The Government will not maintain prison officers at the level needed to look after 3 000 prisoners when there are only 2 000 in the government prison system. That is crystal clear. Mr Birney: Do you believe that the new DNA legislation will rapidly fill that hole in prison numbers? Mr McGINTY: It will have a significant impact. That is one reason the Government will need to review the next batch of 70 prison officers who are employed on three-year contracts. We will need to consider the impact of the DNA legislation when the Liberal Party eventually passes it through the Legislative Council and gets on with it. Several members interjected. Mr McGINTY: I am pleased to hear that. The member is obviously more up-to-date than I am on that matter. When that legislation comes into effect, I believe that it will have a significant impact on the clear-up rate and will ensure that people who should be in prison for committing serious offences are in prison. That impact will need to be offset against the reduction in the prison population that will occur as a result of the sentencing legislation that the Government will introduce next month. At the moment, the Prison Officers Union, with which I have regular dialogue, wants to maintain staffing levels to cover 3 000 prisoners when there are only 2 000 prisoners in the system. It is irresponsible for anyone to suggest that that is the appropriate level of staffing. The Government is reducing the prison population in this State. At the moment, Western Australia imprisons its citizens at a far higher rate than anywhere else in the country. The previous Government ran the most expensive prison system in Australia as well. All those factors are fluid. They will all have a significant impact. We must take those matters into account. The Government will employ in good jobs the number of prison officers that is needed to run the system. We will not artificially create employment for prison officers who are not needed. The previous Government found that those officers were not needed when it employed them on short-term contracts in the first place. Mr Birney: Are you proud of the fact that the prison population has dramatically reduced under the Labor Party? Mr McGINTY: The yardstick used by members opposite to measure the success of legislation was how many citizens it locked up. I regard that as an absolute admission of failure. No other State or Territory in Australia locks up minor offenders in the numbers or way they are locked up in Western Australia. Those people are more effectively punished outside the prisons. I am pleased that we are getting back to the norm. This Government treats the citizens of this State in a more sensible way. The economic rationalists opposite should consider that it costs $70 000 to keep one prisoner in prison for a year. That is taxpayers’ money that could be spent on schools, hospitals or a raft of other services. The Opposition wants the Government to spend precious dollars on locking up people who do not need to be locked up, because the nature of their offending is minor and they are not punished by imprisonment anywhere else in Australia. That economic irresponsibility on the part of the previous Government is being corrected by this Government. The SPEAKER: Order! Members who are not involved with the next item of business should carry on their conversations outside.
Mr McGINTY: I have already provided that information. The number varies on a daily, or even an hourly, basis. The member for Nedlands will discover that as she gets a bit more experience in dealing with these matters. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER: Members! Mr McGINTY: As those contracts were expiring, contracts were also expiring for the second batch of 70 contract prison officers who were engaged by the previous Government on a short-term basis to deal with the peak in the prison population. This Government has given those prison officers advance notice that approximately 20 of those 70 officers will be kept, and that the rest will be surplus to requirements. The three-year contracts of a further 70 prison officers will terminate next year. Ms Sue Walker: Have you told them that they have lost their jobs? Mr McGINTY: Told whom? Ms Sue Walker: The 70 prison officers. Mr McGINTY: The next lot? Ms Sue Walker: The 70 prison officers. Mr McGINTY: Of course not. An assessment will need to be made next year about the number of prison officers who will be required in the light of the prison population at that time. Why on earth would the Government tell people that something will happen to them next year when we do not know the basis upon which that decision will be made? That might have been the way in which the member for Nedlands wanted to run the show, but we will employ the appropriate number of prison officers for the prison population. There has been a dramatic fall of about 1 000 people in the state prison population. The Government will not maintain the same number of prison officers that was employed to look after 3 000 prisoners - Ms Sue Walker: Is that figure accurate? The SPEAKER: Order, member for Nedlands! Mr McGINTY: I ask the member for Nedlands to zip it. The Government will not maintain prison officers at the level needed to look after 3 000 prisoners when there are only 2 000 in the government prison system. That is crystal clear. Mr Birney: Do you believe that the new DNA legislation will rapidly fill that hole in prison numbers? Mr McGINTY: It will have a significant impact. That is one reason the Government will need to review the next batch of 70 prison officers who are employed on three-year contracts. We will need to consider the impact of the DNA legislation when the Liberal Party eventually passes it through the Legislative Council and gets on with it. Several members interjected. Mr McGINTY: I am pleased to hear that. The member is obviously more up-to-date than I am on that matter. When that legislation comes into effect, I believe that it will have a significant impact on the clear-up rate and will ensure that people who should be in prison for committing serious offences are in prison. That impact will need to be offset against the reduction in the prison population that will occur as a result of the sentencing legislation that the Government will introduce next month. At the moment, the Prison Officers Union, with which I have regular dialogue, wants to maintain staffing levels to cover 3 000 prisoners when there are only 2 000 prisoners in the system. It is irresponsible for anyone to suggest that that is the appropriate level of staffing. The Government is reducing the prison population in this State. At the moment, Western Australia imprisons its citizens at a far higher rate than anywhere else in the country. The previous Government ran the most expensive prison system in Australia as well. All those factors are fluid. They will all have a significant impact. We must take those matters into account. The Government will employ in good jobs the number of prison officers that is needed to run the system. We will not artificially create employment for prison officers who are not needed. The previous Government found that those officers were not needed when it employed them on short-term contracts in the first place. Mr Birney: Are you proud of the fact that the prison population has dramatically reduced under the Labor Party? Mr McGINTY: The yardstick used by members opposite to measure the success of legislation was how many citizens it locked up. I regard that as an absolute admission of failure. No other State or Territory in Australia locks up minor offenders in the numbers or way they are locked up in Western Australia. Those people are more effectively punished outside the prisons. I am pleased that we are getting back to the norm. This Government treats the citizens of this State in a more sensible way. The economic rationalists opposite should consider that it costs $70 000 to keep one prisoner in prison for a year. That is taxpayers’ money that could be spent on schools, hospitals or a raft of other services. The Opposition wants the Government to spend precious dollars on locking up people who do not need to be locked up, because the nature of their offending is minor and they are not punished by imprisonment anywhere else in Australia. That economic irresponsibility on the part of the previous Government is being corrected by this Government. The SPEAKER: Order! Members who are not involved with the next item of business should carry on their conversations outside.
Several members interjected. The SPEAKER: Members! Mr McGINTY: As those contracts were expiring, contracts were also expiring for the second batch of 70 contract prison officers who were engaged by the previous Government on a short-term basis to deal with the peak in the prison population. This Government has given those prison officers advance notice that approximately 20 of those 70 officers will be kept, and that the rest will be surplus to requirements. The three-year contracts of a further 70 prison officers will terminate next year. Ms Sue Walker: Have you told them that they have lost their jobs? Mr McGINTY: Told whom? Ms Sue Walker: The 70 prison officers. Mr McGINTY: The next lot? Ms Sue Walker: The 70 prison officers. Mr McGINTY: Of course not. An assessment will need to be made next year about the number of prison officers who will be required in the light of the prison population at that time. Why on earth would the Government tell people that something will happen to them next year when we do not know the basis upon which that decision will be made? That might have been the way in which the member for Nedlands wanted to run the show, but we will employ the appropriate number of prison officers for the prison population. There has been a dramatic fall of about 1 000 people in the state prison population. The Government will not maintain the same number of prison officers that was employed to look after 3 000 prisoners - Ms Sue Walker: Is that figure accurate? The SPEAKER: Order, member for Nedlands! Mr McGINTY: I ask the member for Nedlands to zip it. The Government will not maintain prison officers at the level needed to look after 3 000 prisoners when there are only 2 000 in the government prison system. That is crystal clear. Mr Birney: Do you believe that the new DNA legislation will rapidly fill that hole in prison numbers? Mr McGINTY: It will have a significant impact. That is one reason the Government will need to review the next batch of 70 prison officers who are employed on three-year contracts. We will need to consider the impact of the DNA legislation when the Liberal Party eventually passes it through the Legislative Council and gets on with it. Several members interjected. Mr McGINTY: I am pleased to hear that. The member is obviously more up-to-date than I am on that matter. When that legislation comes into effect, I believe that it will have a significant impact on the clear-up rate and will ensure that people who should be in prison for committing serious offences are in prison. That impact will need to be offset against the reduction in the prison population that will occur as a result of the sentencing legislation that the Government will introduce next month. At the moment, the Prison Officers Union, with which I have regular dialogue, wants to maintain staffing levels to cover 3 000 prisoners when there are only 2 000 prisoners in the system. It is irresponsible for anyone to suggest that that is the appropriate level of staffing. The Government is reducing the prison population in this State. At the moment, Western Australia imprisons its citizens at a far higher rate than anywhere else in the country. The previous Government ran the most expensive prison system in Australia as well. All those factors are fluid. They will all have a significant impact. We must take those matters into account. The Government will employ in good jobs the number of prison officers that is needed to run the system. We will not artificially create employment for prison officers who are not needed. The previous Government found that those officers were not needed when it employed them on short-term contracts in the first place. Mr Birney: Are you proud of the fact that the prison population has dramatically reduced under the Labor Party? Mr McGINTY: The yardstick used by members opposite to measure the success of legislation was how many citizens it locked up. I regard that as an absolute admission of failure. No other State or Territory in Australia locks up minor offenders in the numbers or way they are locked up in Western Australia. Those people are more effectively punished outside the prisons. I am pleased that we are getting back to the norm. This Government treats the citizens of this State in a more sensible way. The economic rationalists opposite should consider that it costs $70 000 to keep one prisoner in prison for a year. That is taxpayers’ money that could be spent on schools, hospitals or a raft of other services. The Opposition wants the Government to spend precious dollars on locking up people who do not need to be locked up, because the nature of their offending is minor and they are not punished by imprisonment anywhere else in Australia. That economic irresponsibility on the part of the previous Government is being corrected by this Government. The SPEAKER: Order! Members who are not involved with the next item of business should carry on their conversations outside.
The SPEAKER: Members! Mr McGINTY: As those contracts were expiring, contracts were also expiring for the second batch of 70 contract prison officers who were engaged by the previous Government on a short-term basis to deal with the peak in the prison population. This Government has given those prison officers advance notice that approximately 20 of those 70 officers will be kept, and that the rest will be surplus to requirements. The three-year contracts of a further 70 prison officers will terminate next year. Ms Sue Walker: Have you told them that they have lost their jobs? Mr McGINTY: Told whom? Ms Sue Walker: The 70 prison officers. Mr McGINTY: The next lot? Ms Sue Walker: The 70 prison officers. Mr McGINTY: Of course not. An assessment will need to be made next year about the number of prison officers who will be required in the light of the prison population at that time. Why on earth would the Government tell people that something will happen to them next year when we do not know the basis upon which that decision will be made? That might have been the way in which the member for Nedlands wanted to run the show, but we will employ the appropriate number of prison officers for the prison population. There has been a dramatic fall of about 1 000 people in the state prison population. The Government will not maintain the same number of prison officers that was employed to look after 3 000 prisoners - Ms Sue Walker: Is that figure accurate? The SPEAKER: Order, member for Nedlands! Mr McGINTY: I ask the member for Nedlands to zip it. The Government will not maintain prison officers at the level needed to look after 3 000 prisoners when there are only 2 000 in the government prison system. That is crystal clear. Mr Birney: Do you believe that the new DNA legislation will rapidly fill that hole in prison numbers? Mr McGINTY: It will have a significant impact. That is one reason the Government will need to review the next batch of 70 prison officers who are employed on three-year contracts. We will need to consider the impact of the DNA legislation when the Liberal Party eventually passes it through the Legislative Council and gets on with it. Several members interjected. Mr McGINTY: I am pleased to hear that. The member is obviously more up-to-date than I am on that matter. When that legislation comes into effect, I believe that it will have a significant impact on the clear-up rate and will ensure that people who should be in prison for committing serious offences are in prison. That impact will need to be offset against the reduction in the prison population that will occur as a result of the sentencing legislation that the Government will introduce next month. At the moment, the Prison Officers Union, with which I have regular dialogue, wants to maintain staffing levels to cover 3 000 prisoners when there are only 2 000 prisoners in the system. It is irresponsible for anyone to suggest that that is the appropriate level of staffing. The Government is reducing the prison population in this State. At the moment, Western Australia imprisons its citizens at a far higher rate than anywhere else in the country. The previous Government ran the most expensive prison system in Australia as well. All those factors are fluid. They will all have a significant impact. We must take those matters into account. The Government will employ in good jobs the number of prison officers that is needed to run the system. We will not artificially create employment for prison officers who are not needed. The previous Government found that those officers were not needed when it employed them on short-term contracts in the first place. Mr Birney: Are you proud of the fact that the prison population has dramatically reduced under the Labor Party? Mr McGINTY: The yardstick used by members opposite to measure the success of legislation was how many citizens it locked up. I regard that as an absolute admission of failure. No other State or Territory in Australia locks up minor offenders in the numbers or way they are locked up in Western Australia. Those people are more effectively punished outside the prisons. I am pleased that we are getting back to the norm. This Government treats the citizens of this State in a more sensible way. The economic rationalists opposite should consider that it costs $70 000 to keep one prisoner in prison for a year. That is taxpayers’ money that could be spent on schools, hospitals or a raft of other services. The Opposition wants the Government to spend precious dollars on locking up people who do not need to be locked up, because the nature of their offending is minor and they are not punished by imprisonment anywhere else in Australia. That economic irresponsibility on the part of the previous Government is being corrected by this Government. The SPEAKER: Order! Members who are not involved with the next item of business should carry on their conversations outside.
Mr McGINTY: As those contracts were expiring, contracts were also expiring for the second batch of 70 contract prison officers who were engaged by the previous Government on a short-term basis to deal with the peak in the prison population. This Government has given those prison officers advance notice that approximately 20 of those 70 officers will be kept, and that the rest will be surplus to requirements. The three-year contracts of a further 70 prison officers will terminate next year. Ms Sue Walker: Have you told them that they have lost their jobs? Mr McGINTY: Told whom? Ms Sue Walker: The 70 prison officers. Mr McGINTY: The next lot? Ms Sue Walker: The 70 prison officers. Mr McGINTY: Of course not. An assessment will need to be made next year about the number of prison officers who will be required in the light of the prison population at that time. Why on earth would the Government tell people that something will happen to them next year when we do not know the basis upon which that decision will be made? That might have been the way in which the member for Nedlands wanted to run the show, but we will employ the appropriate number of prison officers for the prison population. There has been a dramatic fall of about 1 000 people in the state prison population. The Government will not maintain the same number of prison officers that was employed to look after 3 000 prisoners - Ms Sue Walker: Is that figure accurate? The SPEAKER: Order, member for Nedlands! Mr McGINTY: I ask the member for Nedlands to zip it. The Government will not maintain prison officers at the level needed to look after 3 000 prisoners when there are only 2 000 in the government prison system. That is crystal clear. Mr Birney: Do you believe that the new DNA legislation will rapidly fill that hole in prison numbers? Mr McGINTY: It will have a significant impact. That is one reason the Government will need to review the next batch of 70 prison officers who are employed on three-year contracts. We will need to consider the impact of the DNA legislation when the Liberal Party eventually passes it through the Legislative Council and gets on with it. Several members interjected. Mr McGINTY: I am pleased to hear that. The member is obviously more up-to-date than I am on that matter. When that legislation comes into effect, I believe that it will have a significant impact on the clear-up rate and will ensure that people who should be in prison for committing serious offences are in prison. That impact will need to be offset against the reduction in the prison population that will occur as a result of the sentencing legislation that the Government will introduce next month. At the moment, the Prison Officers Union, with which I have regular dialogue, wants to maintain staffing levels to cover 3 000 prisoners when there are only 2 000 prisoners in the system. It is irresponsible for anyone to suggest that that is the appropriate level of staffing. The Government is reducing the prison population in this State. At the moment, Western Australia imprisons its citizens at a far higher rate than anywhere else in the country. The previous Government ran the most expensive prison system in Australia as well. All those factors are fluid. They will all have a significant impact. We must take those matters into account. The Government will employ in good jobs the number of prison officers that is needed to run the system. We will not artificially create employment for prison officers who are not needed. The previous Government found that those officers were not needed when it employed them on short-term contracts in the first place. Mr Birney: Are you proud of the fact that the prison population has dramatically reduced under the Labor Party? Mr McGINTY: The yardstick used by members opposite to measure the success of legislation was how many citizens it locked up. I regard that as an absolute admission of failure. No other State or Territory in Australia locks up minor offenders in the numbers or way they are locked up in Western Australia. Those people are more effectively punished outside the prisons. I am pleased that we are getting back to the norm. This Government treats the citizens of this State in a more sensible way. The economic rationalists opposite should consider that it costs $70 000 to keep one prisoner in prison for a year. That is taxpayers’ money that could be spent on schools, hospitals or a raft of other services. The Opposition wants the Government to spend precious dollars on locking up people who do not need to be locked up, because the nature of their offending is minor and they are not punished by imprisonment anywhere else in Australia. That economic irresponsibility on the part of the previous Government is being corrected by this Government. The SPEAKER: Order! Members who are not involved with the next item of business should carry on their conversations outside.
Ms Sue Walker: Have you told them that they have lost their jobs? Mr McGINTY: Told whom? Ms Sue Walker: The 70 prison officers. Mr McGINTY: The next lot? Ms Sue Walker: The 70 prison officers. Mr McGINTY: Of course not. An assessment will need to be made next year about the number of prison officers who will be required in the light of the prison population at that time. Why on earth would the Government tell people that something will happen to them next year when we do not know the basis upon which that decision will be made? That might have been the way in which the member for Nedlands wanted to run the show, but we will employ the appropriate number of prison officers for the prison population. There has been a dramatic fall of about 1 000 people in the state prison population. The Government will not maintain the same number of prison officers that was employed to look after 3 000 prisoners - Ms Sue Walker: Is that figure accurate? The SPEAKER: Order, member for Nedlands! Mr McGINTY: I ask the member for Nedlands to zip it. The Government will not maintain prison officers at the level needed to look after 3 000 prisoners when there are only 2 000 in the government prison system. That is crystal clear. Mr Birney: Do you believe that the new DNA legislation will rapidly fill that hole in prison numbers? Mr McGINTY: It will have a significant impact. That is one reason the Government will need to review the next batch of 70 prison officers who are employed on three-year contracts. We will need to consider the impact of the DNA legislation when the Liberal Party eventually passes it through the Legislative Council and gets on with it. Several members interjected. Mr McGINTY: I am pleased to hear that. The member is obviously more up-to-date than I am on that matter. When that legislation comes into effect, I believe that it will have a significant impact on the clear-up rate and will ensure that people who should be in prison for committing serious offences are in prison. That impact will need to be offset against the reduction in the prison population that will occur as a result of the sentencing legislation that the Government will introduce next month. At the moment, the Prison Officers Union, with which I have regular dialogue, wants to maintain staffing levels to cover 3 000 prisoners when there are only 2 000 prisoners in the system. It is irresponsible for anyone to suggest that that is the appropriate level of staffing. The Government is reducing the prison population in this State. At the moment, Western Australia imprisons its citizens at a far higher rate than anywhere else in the country. The previous Government ran the most expensive prison system in Australia as well. All those factors are fluid. They will all have a significant impact. We must take those matters into account. The Government will employ in good jobs the number of prison officers that is needed to run the system. We will not artificially create employment for prison officers who are not needed. The previous Government found that those officers were not needed when it employed them on short-term contracts in the first place. Mr Birney: Are you proud of the fact that the prison population has dramatically reduced under the Labor Party? Mr McGINTY: The yardstick used by members opposite to measure the success of legislation was how many citizens it locked up. I regard that as an absolute admission of failure. No other State or Territory in Australia locks up minor offenders in the numbers or way they are locked up in Western Australia. Those people are more effectively punished outside the prisons. I am pleased that we are getting back to the norm. This Government treats the citizens of this State in a more sensible way. The economic rationalists opposite should consider that it costs $70 000 to keep one prisoner in prison for a year. That is taxpayers’ money that could be spent on schools, hospitals or a raft of other services. The Opposition wants the Government to spend precious dollars on locking up people who do not need to be locked up, because the nature of their offending is minor and they are not punished by imprisonment anywhere else in Australia. That economic irresponsibility on the part of the previous Government is being corrected by this Government. The SPEAKER: Order! Members who are not involved with the next item of business should carry on their conversations outside.
Mr McGINTY: Told whom? Ms Sue Walker: The 70 prison officers. Mr McGINTY: The next lot? Ms Sue Walker: The 70 prison officers. Mr McGINTY: Of course not. An assessment will need to be made next year about the number of prison officers who will be required in the light of the prison population at that time. Why on earth would the Government tell people that something will happen to them next year when we do not know the basis upon which that decision will be made? That might have been the way in which the member for Nedlands wanted to run the show, but we will employ the appropriate number of prison officers for the prison population. There has been a dramatic fall of about 1 000 people in the state prison population. The Government will not maintain the same number of prison officers that was employed to look after 3 000 prisoners - Ms Sue Walker: Is that figure accurate? The SPEAKER: Order, member for Nedlands! Mr McGINTY: I ask the member for Nedlands to zip it. The Government will not maintain prison officers at the level needed to look after 3 000 prisoners when there are only 2 000 in the government prison system. That is crystal clear. Mr Birney: Do you believe that the new DNA legislation will rapidly fill that hole in prison numbers? Mr McGINTY: It will have a significant impact. That is one reason the Government will need to review the next batch of 70 prison officers who are employed on three-year contracts. We will need to consider the impact of the DNA legislation when the Liberal Party eventually passes it through the Legislative Council and gets on with it. Several members interjected. Mr McGINTY: I am pleased to hear that. The member is obviously more up-to-date than I am on that matter. When that legislation comes into effect, I believe that it will have a significant impact on the clear-up rate and will ensure that people who should be in prison for committing serious offences are in prison. That impact will need to be offset against the reduction in the prison population that will occur as a result of the sentencing legislation that the Government will introduce next month. At the moment, the Prison Officers Union, with which I have regular dialogue, wants to maintain staffing levels to cover 3 000 prisoners when there are only 2 000 prisoners in the system. It is irresponsible for anyone to suggest that that is the appropriate level of staffing. The Government is reducing the prison population in this State. At the moment, Western Australia imprisons its citizens at a far higher rate than anywhere else in the country. The previous Government ran the most expensive prison system in Australia as well. All those factors are fluid. They will all have a significant impact. We must take those matters into account. The Government will employ in good jobs the number of prison officers that is needed to run the system. We will not artificially create employment for prison officers who are not needed. The previous Government found that those officers were not needed when it employed them on short-term contracts in the first place. Mr Birney: Are you proud of the fact that the prison population has dramatically reduced under the Labor Party? Mr McGINTY: The yardstick used by members opposite to measure the success of legislation was how many citizens it locked up. I regard that as an absolute admission of failure. No other State or Territory in Australia locks up minor offenders in the numbers or way they are locked up in Western Australia. Those people are more effectively punished outside the prisons. I am pleased that we are getting back to the norm. This Government treats the citizens of this State in a more sensible way. The economic rationalists opposite should consider that it costs $70 000 to keep one prisoner in prison for a year. That is taxpayers’ money that could be spent on schools, hospitals or a raft of other services. The Opposition wants the Government to spend precious dollars on locking up people who do not need to be locked up, because the nature of their offending is minor and they are not punished by imprisonment anywhere else in Australia. That economic irresponsibility on the part of the previous Government is being corrected by this Government. The SPEAKER: Order! Members who are not involved with the next item of business should carry on their conversations outside.
Ms Sue Walker: The 70 prison officers. Mr McGINTY: The next lot? Ms Sue Walker: The 70 prison officers. Mr McGINTY: Of course not. An assessment will need to be made next year about the number of prison officers who will be required in the light of the prison population at that time. Why on earth would the Government tell people that something will happen to them next year when we do not know the basis upon which that decision will be made? That might have been the way in which the member for Nedlands wanted to run the show, but we will employ the appropriate number of prison officers for the prison population. There has been a dramatic fall of about 1 000 people in the state prison population. The Government will not maintain the same number of prison officers that was employed to look after 3 000 prisoners - Ms Sue Walker: Is that figure accurate? The SPEAKER: Order, member for Nedlands! Mr McGINTY: I ask the member for Nedlands to zip it. The Government will not maintain prison officers at the level needed to look after 3 000 prisoners when there are only 2 000 in the government prison system. That is crystal clear. Mr Birney: Do you believe that the new DNA legislation will rapidly fill that hole in prison numbers? Mr McGINTY: It will have a significant impact. That is one reason the Government will need to review the next batch of 70 prison officers who are employed on three-year contracts. We will need to consider the impact of the DNA legislation when the Liberal Party eventually passes it through the Legislative Council and gets on with it. Several members interjected. Mr McGINTY: I am pleased to hear that. The member is obviously more up-to-date than I am on that matter. When that legislation comes into effect, I believe that it will have a significant impact on the clear-up rate and will ensure that people who should be in prison for committing serious offences are in prison. That impact will need to be offset against the reduction in the prison population that will occur as a result of the sentencing legislation that the Government will introduce next month. At the moment, the Prison Officers Union, with which I have regular dialogue, wants to maintain staffing levels to cover 3 000 prisoners when there are only 2 000 prisoners in the system. It is irresponsible for anyone to suggest that that is the appropriate level of staffing. The Government is reducing the prison population in this State. At the moment, Western Australia imprisons its citizens at a far higher rate than anywhere else in the country. The previous Government ran the most expensive prison system in Australia as well. All those factors are fluid. They will all have a significant impact. We must take those matters into account. The Government will employ in good jobs the number of prison officers that is needed to run the system. We will not artificially create employment for prison officers who are not needed. The previous Government found that those officers were not needed when it employed them on short-term contracts in the first place. Mr Birney: Are you proud of the fact that the prison population has dramatically reduced under the Labor Party? Mr McGINTY: The yardstick used by members opposite to measure the success of legislation was how many citizens it locked up. I regard that as an absolute admission of failure. No other State or Territory in Australia locks up minor offenders in the numbers or way they are locked up in Western Australia. Those people are more effectively punished outside the prisons. I am pleased that we are getting back to the norm. This Government treats the citizens of this State in a more sensible way. The economic rationalists opposite should consider that it costs $70 000 to keep one prisoner in prison for a year. That is taxpayers’ money that could be spent on schools, hospitals or a raft of other services. The Opposition wants the Government to spend precious dollars on locking up people who do not need to be locked up, because the nature of their offending is minor and they are not punished by imprisonment anywhere else in Australia. That economic irresponsibility on the part of the previous Government is being corrected by this Government. The SPEAKER: Order! Members who are not involved with the next item of business should carry on their conversations outside.
Mr McGINTY: The next lot? Ms Sue Walker: The 70 prison officers. Mr McGINTY: Of course not. An assessment will need to be made next year about the number of prison officers who will be required in the light of the prison population at that time. Why on earth would the Government tell people that something will happen to them next year when we do not know the basis upon which that decision will be made? That might have been the way in which the member for Nedlands wanted to run the show, but we will employ the appropriate number of prison officers for the prison population. There has been a dramatic fall of about 1 000 people in the state prison population. The Government will not maintain the same number of prison officers that was employed to look after 3 000 prisoners - Ms Sue Walker: Is that figure accurate? The SPEAKER: Order, member for Nedlands! Mr McGINTY: I ask the member for Nedlands to zip it. The Government will not maintain prison officers at the level needed to look after 3 000 prisoners when there are only 2 000 in the government prison system. That is crystal clear. Mr Birney: Do you believe that the new DNA legislation will rapidly fill that hole in prison numbers? Mr McGINTY: It will have a significant impact. That is one reason the Government will need to review the next batch of 70 prison officers who are employed on three-year contracts. We will need to consider the impact of the DNA legislation when the Liberal Party eventually passes it through the Legislative Council and gets on with it. Several members interjected. Mr McGINTY: I am pleased to hear that. The member is obviously more up-to-date than I am on that matter. When that legislation comes into effect, I believe that it will have a significant impact on the clear-up rate and will ensure that people who should be in prison for committing serious offences are in prison. That impact will need to be offset against the reduction in the prison population that will occur as a result of the sentencing legislation that the Government will introduce next month. At the moment, the Prison Officers Union, with which I have regular dialogue, wants to maintain staffing levels to cover 3 000 prisoners when there are only 2 000 prisoners in the system. It is irresponsible for anyone to suggest that that is the appropriate level of staffing. The Government is reducing the prison population in this State. At the moment, Western Australia imprisons its citizens at a far higher rate than anywhere else in the country. The previous Government ran the most expensive prison system in Australia as well. All those factors are fluid. They will all have a significant impact. We must take those matters into account. The Government will employ in good jobs the number of prison officers that is needed to run the system. We will not artificially create employment for prison officers who are not needed. The previous Government found that those officers were not needed when it employed them on short-term contracts in the first place. Mr Birney: Are you proud of the fact that the prison population has dramatically reduced under the Labor Party? Mr McGINTY: The yardstick used by members opposite to measure the success of legislation was how many citizens it locked up. I regard that as an absolute admission of failure. No other State or Territory in Australia locks up minor offenders in the numbers or way they are locked up in Western Australia. Those people are more effectively punished outside the prisons. I am pleased that we are getting back to the norm. This Government treats the citizens of this State in a more sensible way. The economic rationalists opposite should consider that it costs $70 000 to keep one prisoner in prison for a year. That is taxpayers’ money that could be spent on schools, hospitals or a raft of other services. The Opposition wants the Government to spend precious dollars on locking up people who do not need to be locked up, because the nature of their offending is minor and they are not punished by imprisonment anywhere else in Australia. That economic irresponsibility on the part of the previous Government is being corrected by this Government. The SPEAKER: Order! Members who are not involved with the next item of business should carry on their conversations outside.
Ms Sue Walker: The 70 prison officers. Mr McGINTY: Of course not. An assessment will need to be made next year about the number of prison officers who will be required in the light of the prison population at that time. Why on earth would the Government tell people that something will happen to them next year when we do not know the basis upon which that decision will be made? That might have been the way in which the member for Nedlands wanted to run the show, but we will employ the appropriate number of prison officers for the prison population. There has been a dramatic fall of about 1 000 people in the state prison population. The Government will not maintain the same number of prison officers that was employed to look after 3 000 prisoners - Ms Sue Walker: Is that figure accurate? The SPEAKER: Order, member for Nedlands! Mr McGINTY: I ask the member for Nedlands to zip it. The Government will not maintain prison officers at the level needed to look after 3 000 prisoners when there are only 2 000 in the government prison system. That is crystal clear. Mr Birney: Do you believe that the new DNA legislation will rapidly fill that hole in prison numbers? Mr McGINTY: It will have a significant impact. That is one reason the Government will need to review the next batch of 70 prison officers who are employed on three-year contracts. We will need to consider the impact of the DNA legislation when the Liberal Party eventually passes it through the Legislative Council and gets on with it. Several members interjected. Mr McGINTY: I am pleased to hear that. The member is obviously more up-to-date than I am on that matter. When that legislation comes into effect, I believe that it will have a significant impact on the clear-up rate and will ensure that people who should be in prison for committing serious offences are in prison. That impact will need to be offset against the reduction in the prison population that will occur as a result of the sentencing legislation that the Government will introduce next month. At the moment, the Prison Officers Union, with which I have regular dialogue, wants to maintain staffing levels to cover 3 000 prisoners when there are only 2 000 prisoners in the system. It is irresponsible for anyone to suggest that that is the appropriate level of staffing. The Government is reducing the prison population in this State. At the moment, Western Australia imprisons its citizens at a far higher rate than anywhere else in the country. The previous Government ran the most expensive prison system in Australia as well. All those factors are fluid. They will all have a significant impact. We must take those matters into account. The Government will employ in good jobs the number of prison officers that is needed to run the system. We will not artificially create employment for prison officers who are not needed. The previous Government found that those officers were not needed when it employed them on short-term contracts in the first place. Mr Birney: Are you proud of the fact that the prison population has dramatically reduced under the Labor Party? Mr McGINTY: The yardstick used by members opposite to measure the success of legislation was how many citizens it locked up. I regard that as an absolute admission of failure. No other State or Territory in Australia locks up minor offenders in the numbers or way they are locked up in Western Australia. Those people are more effectively punished outside the prisons. I am pleased that we are getting back to the norm. This Government treats the citizens of this State in a more sensible way. The economic rationalists opposite should consider that it costs $70 000 to keep one prisoner in prison for a year. That is taxpayers’ money that could be spent on schools, hospitals or a raft of other services. The Opposition wants the Government to spend precious dollars on locking up people who do not need to be locked up, because the nature of their offending is minor and they are not punished by imprisonment anywhere else in Australia. That economic irresponsibility on the part of the previous Government is being corrected by this Government. The SPEAKER: Order! Members who are not involved with the next item of business should carry on their conversations outside.
Mr McGINTY: Of course not. An assessment will need to be made next year about the number of prison officers who will be required in the light of the prison population at that time. Why on earth would the Government tell people that something will happen to them next year when we do not know the basis upon which that decision will be made? That might have been the way in which the member for Nedlands wanted to run the show, but we will employ the appropriate number of prison officers for the prison population. There has been a dramatic fall of about 1 000 people in the state prison population. The Government will not maintain the same number of prison officers that was employed to look after 3 000 prisoners - Ms Sue Walker: Is that figure accurate? The SPEAKER: Order, member for Nedlands! Mr McGINTY: I ask the member for Nedlands to zip it. The Government will not maintain prison officers at the level needed to look after 3 000 prisoners when there are only 2 000 in the government prison system. That is crystal clear. Mr Birney: Do you believe that the new DNA legislation will rapidly fill that hole in prison numbers? Mr McGINTY: It will have a significant impact. That is one reason the Government will need to review the next batch of 70 prison officers who are employed on three-year contracts. We will need to consider the impact of the DNA legislation when the Liberal Party eventually passes it through the Legislative Council and gets on with it. Several members interjected. Mr McGINTY: I am pleased to hear that. The member is obviously more up-to-date than I am on that matter. When that legislation comes into effect, I believe that it will have a significant impact on the clear-up rate and will ensure that people who should be in prison for committing serious offences are in prison. That impact will need to be offset against the reduction in the prison population that will occur as a result of the sentencing legislation that the Government will introduce next month. At the moment, the Prison Officers Union, with which I have regular dialogue, wants to maintain staffing levels to cover 3 000 prisoners when there are only 2 000 prisoners in the system. It is irresponsible for anyone to suggest that that is the appropriate level of staffing. The Government is reducing the prison population in this State. At the moment, Western Australia imprisons its citizens at a far higher rate than anywhere else in the country. The previous Government ran the most expensive prison system in Australia as well. All those factors are fluid. They will all have a significant impact. We must take those matters into account. The Government will employ in good jobs the number of prison officers that is needed to run the system. We will not artificially create employment for prison officers who are not needed. The previous Government found that those officers were not needed when it employed them on short-term contracts in the first place. Mr Birney: Are you proud of the fact that the prison population has dramatically reduced under the Labor Party? Mr McGINTY: The yardstick used by members opposite to measure the success of legislation was how many citizens it locked up. I regard that as an absolute admission of failure. No other State or Territory in Australia locks up minor offenders in the numbers or way they are locked up in Western Australia. Those people are more effectively punished outside the prisons. I am pleased that we are getting back to the norm. This Government treats the citizens of this State in a more sensible way. The economic rationalists opposite should consider that it costs $70 000 to keep one prisoner in prison for a year. That is taxpayers’ money that could be spent on schools, hospitals or a raft of other services. The Opposition wants the Government to spend precious dollars on locking up people who do not need to be locked up, because the nature of their offending is minor and they are not punished by imprisonment anywhere else in Australia. That economic irresponsibility on the part of the previous Government is being corrected by this Government. The SPEAKER: Order! Members who are not involved with the next item of business should carry on their conversations outside.
Ms Sue Walker: Is that figure accurate? The SPEAKER: Order, member for Nedlands! Mr McGINTY: I ask the member for Nedlands to zip it. The Government will not maintain prison officers at the level needed to look after 3 000 prisoners when there are only 2 000 in the government prison system. That is crystal clear. Mr Birney: Do you believe that the new DNA legislation will rapidly fill that hole in prison numbers? Mr McGINTY: It will have a significant impact. That is one reason the Government will need to review the next batch of 70 prison officers who are employed on three-year contracts. We will need to consider the impact of the DNA legislation when the Liberal Party eventually passes it through the Legislative Council and gets on with it. Several members interjected. Mr McGINTY: I am pleased to hear that. The member is obviously more up-to-date than I am on that matter. When that legislation comes into effect, I believe that it will have a significant impact on the clear-up rate and will ensure that people who should be in prison for committing serious offences are in prison. That impact will need to be offset against the reduction in the prison population that will occur as a result of the sentencing legislation that the Government will introduce next month. At the moment, the Prison Officers Union, with which I have regular dialogue, wants to maintain staffing levels to cover 3 000 prisoners when there are only 2 000 prisoners in the system. It is irresponsible for anyone to suggest that that is the appropriate level of staffing. The Government is reducing the prison population in this State. At the moment, Western Australia imprisons its citizens at a far higher rate than anywhere else in the country. The previous Government ran the most expensive prison system in Australia as well. All those factors are fluid. They will all have a significant impact. We must take those matters into account. The Government will employ in good jobs the number of prison officers that is needed to run the system. We will not artificially create employment for prison officers who are not needed. The previous Government found that those officers were not needed when it employed them on short-term contracts in the first place. Mr Birney: Are you proud of the fact that the prison population has dramatically reduced under the Labor Party? Mr McGINTY: The yardstick used by members opposite to measure the success of legislation was how many citizens it locked up. I regard that as an absolute admission of failure. No other State or Territory in Australia locks up minor offenders in the numbers or way they are locked up in Western Australia. Those people are more effectively punished outside the prisons. I am pleased that we are getting back to the norm. This Government treats the citizens of this State in a more sensible way. The economic rationalists opposite should consider that it costs $70 000 to keep one prisoner in prison for a year. That is taxpayers’ money that could be spent on schools, hospitals or a raft of other services. The Opposition wants the Government to spend precious dollars on locking up people who do not need to be locked up, because the nature of their offending is minor and they are not punished by imprisonment anywhere else in Australia. That economic irresponsibility on the part of the previous Government is being corrected by this Government. The SPEAKER: Order! Members who are not involved with the next item of business should carry on their conversations outside.
The SPEAKER: Order, member for Nedlands! Mr McGINTY: I ask the member for Nedlands to zip it. The Government will not maintain prison officers at the level needed to look after 3 000 prisoners when there are only 2 000 in the government prison system. That is crystal clear. Mr Birney: Do you believe that the new DNA legislation will rapidly fill that hole in prison numbers? Mr McGINTY: It will have a significant impact. That is one reason the Government will need to review the next batch of 70 prison officers who are employed on three-year contracts. We will need to consider the impact of the DNA legislation when the Liberal Party eventually passes it through the Legislative Council and gets on with it. Several members interjected. Mr McGINTY: I am pleased to hear that. The member is obviously more up-to-date than I am on that matter. When that legislation comes into effect, I believe that it will have a significant impact on the clear-up rate and will ensure that people who should be in prison for committing serious offences are in prison. That impact will need to be offset against the reduction in the prison population that will occur as a result of the sentencing legislation that the Government will introduce next month. At the moment, the Prison Officers Union, with which I have regular dialogue, wants to maintain staffing levels to cover 3 000 prisoners when there are only 2 000 prisoners in the system. It is irresponsible for anyone to suggest that that is the appropriate level of staffing. The Government is reducing the prison population in this State. At the moment, Western Australia imprisons its citizens at a far higher rate than anywhere else in the country. The previous Government ran the most expensive prison system in Australia as well. All those factors are fluid. They will all have a significant impact. We must take those matters into account. The Government will employ in good jobs the number of prison officers that is needed to run the system. We will not artificially create employment for prison officers who are not needed. The previous Government found that those officers were not needed when it employed them on short-term contracts in the first place. Mr Birney: Are you proud of the fact that the prison population has dramatically reduced under the Labor Party? Mr McGINTY: The yardstick used by members opposite to measure the success of legislation was how many citizens it locked up. I regard that as an absolute admission of failure. No other State or Territory in Australia locks up minor offenders in the numbers or way they are locked up in Western Australia. Those people are more effectively punished outside the prisons. I am pleased that we are getting back to the norm. This Government treats the citizens of this State in a more sensible way. The economic rationalists opposite should consider that it costs $70 000 to keep one prisoner in prison for a year. That is taxpayers’ money that could be spent on schools, hospitals or a raft of other services. The Opposition wants the Government to spend precious dollars on locking up people who do not need to be locked up, because the nature of their offending is minor and they are not punished by imprisonment anywhere else in Australia. That economic irresponsibility on the part of the previous Government is being corrected by this Government. The SPEAKER: Order! Members who are not involved with the next item of business should carry on their conversations outside.
Mr McGINTY: I ask the member for Nedlands to zip it. The Government will not maintain prison officers at the level needed to look after 3 000 prisoners when there are only 2 000 in the government prison system. That is crystal clear. Mr Birney: Do you believe that the new DNA legislation will rapidly fill that hole in prison numbers? Mr McGINTY: It will have a significant impact. That is one reason the Government will need to review the next batch of 70 prison officers who are employed on three-year contracts. We will need to consider the impact of the DNA legislation when the Liberal Party eventually passes it through the Legislative Council and gets on with it. Several members interjected. Mr McGINTY: I am pleased to hear that. The member is obviously more up-to-date than I am on that matter. When that legislation comes into effect, I believe that it will have a significant impact on the clear-up rate and will ensure that people who should be in prison for committing serious offences are in prison. That impact will need to be offset against the reduction in the prison population that will occur as a result of the sentencing legislation that the Government will introduce next month. At the moment, the Prison Officers Union, with which I have regular dialogue, wants to maintain staffing levels to cover 3 000 prisoners when there are only 2 000 prisoners in the system. It is irresponsible for anyone to suggest that that is the appropriate level of staffing. The Government is reducing the prison population in this State. At the moment, Western Australia imprisons its citizens at a far higher rate than anywhere else in the country. The previous Government ran the most expensive prison system in Australia as well. All those factors are fluid. They will all have a significant impact. We must take those matters into account. The Government will employ in good jobs the number of prison officers that is needed to run the system. We will not artificially create employment for prison officers who are not needed. The previous Government found that those officers were not needed when it employed them on short-term contracts in the first place. Mr Birney: Are you proud of the fact that the prison population has dramatically reduced under the Labor Party? Mr McGINTY: The yardstick used by members opposite to measure the success of legislation was how many citizens it locked up. I regard that as an absolute admission of failure. No other State or Territory in Australia locks up minor offenders in the numbers or way they are locked up in Western Australia. Those people are more effectively punished outside the prisons. I am pleased that we are getting back to the norm. This Government treats the citizens of this State in a more sensible way. The economic rationalists opposite should consider that it costs $70 000 to keep one prisoner in prison for a year. That is taxpayers’ money that could be spent on schools, hospitals or a raft of other services. The Opposition wants the Government to spend precious dollars on locking up people who do not need to be locked up, because the nature of their offending is minor and they are not punished by imprisonment anywhere else in Australia. That economic irresponsibility on the part of the previous Government is being corrected by this Government. The SPEAKER: Order! Members who are not involved with the next item of business should carry on their conversations outside.
Mr Birney: Do you believe that the new DNA legislation will rapidly fill that hole in prison numbers? Mr McGINTY: It will have a significant impact. That is one reason the Government will need to review the next batch of 70 prison officers who are employed on three-year contracts. We will need to consider the impact of the DNA legislation when the Liberal Party eventually passes it through the Legislative Council and gets on with it. Several members interjected. Mr McGINTY: I am pleased to hear that. The member is obviously more up-to-date than I am on that matter. When that legislation comes into effect, I believe that it will have a significant impact on the clear-up rate and will ensure that people who should be in prison for committing serious offences are in prison. That impact will need to be offset against the reduction in the prison population that will occur as a result of the sentencing legislation that the Government will introduce next month. At the moment, the Prison Officers Union, with which I have regular dialogue, wants to maintain staffing levels to cover 3 000 prisoners when there are only 2 000 prisoners in the system. It is irresponsible for anyone to suggest that that is the appropriate level of staffing. The Government is reducing the prison population in this State. At the moment, Western Australia imprisons its citizens at a far higher rate than anywhere else in the country. The previous Government ran the most expensive prison system in Australia as well. All those factors are fluid. They will all have a significant impact. We must take those matters into account. The Government will employ in good jobs the number of prison officers that is needed to run the system. We will not artificially create employment for prison officers who are not needed. The previous Government found that those officers were not needed when it employed them on short-term contracts in the first place. Mr Birney: Are you proud of the fact that the prison population has dramatically reduced under the Labor Party? Mr McGINTY: The yardstick used by members opposite to measure the success of legislation was how many citizens it locked up. I regard that as an absolute admission of failure. No other State or Territory in Australia locks up minor offenders in the numbers or way they are locked up in Western Australia. Those people are more effectively punished outside the prisons. I am pleased that we are getting back to the norm. This Government treats the citizens of this State in a more sensible way. The economic rationalists opposite should consider that it costs $70 000 to keep one prisoner in prison for a year. That is taxpayers’ money that could be spent on schools, hospitals or a raft of other services. The Opposition wants the Government to spend precious dollars on locking up people who do not need to be locked up, because the nature of their offending is minor and they are not punished by imprisonment anywhere else in Australia. That economic irresponsibility on the part of the previous Government is being corrected by this Government. The SPEAKER: Order! Members who are not involved with the next item of business should carry on their conversations outside.
Mr McGINTY: It will have a significant impact. That is one reason the Government will need to review the next batch of 70 prison officers who are employed on three-year contracts. We will need to consider the impact of the DNA legislation when the Liberal Party eventually passes it through the Legislative Council and gets on with it. Several members interjected. Mr McGINTY: I am pleased to hear that. The member is obviously more up-to-date than I am on that matter. When that legislation comes into effect, I believe that it will have a significant impact on the clear-up rate and will ensure that people who should be in prison for committing serious offences are in prison. That impact will need to be offset against the reduction in the prison population that will occur as a result of the sentencing legislation that the Government will introduce next month. At the moment, the Prison Officers Union, with which I have regular dialogue, wants to maintain staffing levels to cover 3 000 prisoners when there are only 2 000 prisoners in the system. It is irresponsible for anyone to suggest that that is the appropriate level of staffing. The Government is reducing the prison population in this State. At the moment, Western Australia imprisons its citizens at a far higher rate than anywhere else in the country. The previous Government ran the most expensive prison system in Australia as well. All those factors are fluid. They will all have a significant impact. We must take those matters into account. The Government will employ in good jobs the number of prison officers that is needed to run the system. We will not artificially create employment for prison officers who are not needed. The previous Government found that those officers were not needed when it employed them on short-term contracts in the first place. Mr Birney: Are you proud of the fact that the prison population has dramatically reduced under the Labor Party? Mr McGINTY: The yardstick used by members opposite to measure the success of legislation was how many citizens it locked up. I regard that as an absolute admission of failure. No other State or Territory in Australia locks up minor offenders in the numbers or way they are locked up in Western Australia. Those people are more effectively punished outside the prisons. I am pleased that we are getting back to the norm. This Government treats the citizens of this State in a more sensible way. The economic rationalists opposite should consider that it costs $70 000 to keep one prisoner in prison for a year. That is taxpayers’ money that could be spent on schools, hospitals or a raft of other services. The Opposition wants the Government to spend precious dollars on locking up people who do not need to be locked up, because the nature of their offending is minor and they are not punished by imprisonment anywhere else in Australia. That economic irresponsibility on the part of the previous Government is being corrected by this Government. The SPEAKER: Order! Members who are not involved with the next item of business should carry on their conversations outside.
Several members interjected. Mr McGINTY: I am pleased to hear that. The member is obviously more up-to-date than I am on that matter. When that legislation comes into effect, I believe that it will have a significant impact on the clear-up rate and will ensure that people who should be in prison for committing serious offences are in prison. That impact will need to be offset against the reduction in the prison population that will occur as a result of the sentencing legislation that the Government will introduce next month. At the moment, the Prison Officers Union, with which I have regular dialogue, wants to maintain staffing levels to cover 3 000 prisoners when there are only 2 000 prisoners in the system. It is irresponsible for anyone to suggest that that is the appropriate level of staffing. The Government is reducing the prison population in this State. At the moment, Western Australia imprisons its citizens at a far higher rate than anywhere else in the country. The previous Government ran the most expensive prison system in Australia as well. All those factors are fluid. They will all have a significant impact. We must take those matters into account. The Government will employ in good jobs the number of prison officers that is needed to run the system. We will not artificially create employment for prison officers who are not needed. The previous Government found that those officers were not needed when it employed them on short-term contracts in the first place. Mr Birney: Are you proud of the fact that the prison population has dramatically reduced under the Labor Party? Mr McGINTY: The yardstick used by members opposite to measure the success of legislation was how many citizens it locked up. I regard that as an absolute admission of failure. No other State or Territory in Australia locks up minor offenders in the numbers or way they are locked up in Western Australia. Those people are more effectively punished outside the prisons. I am pleased that we are getting back to the norm. This Government treats the citizens of this State in a more sensible way. The economic rationalists opposite should consider that it costs $70 000 to keep one prisoner in prison for a year. That is taxpayers’ money that could be spent on schools, hospitals or a raft of other services. The Opposition wants the Government to spend precious dollars on locking up people who do not need to be locked up, because the nature of their offending is minor and they are not punished by imprisonment anywhere else in Australia. That economic irresponsibility on the part of the previous Government is being corrected by this Government. The SPEAKER: Order! Members who are not involved with the next item of business should carry on their conversations outside.
Mr McGINTY: I am pleased to hear that. The member is obviously more up-to-date than I am on that matter. When that legislation comes into effect, I believe that it will have a significant impact on the clear-up rate and will ensure that people who should be in prison for committing serious offences are in prison. That impact will need to be offset against the reduction in the prison population that will occur as a result of the sentencing legislation that the Government will introduce next month. At the moment, the Prison Officers Union, with which I have regular dialogue, wants to maintain staffing levels to cover 3 000 prisoners when there are only 2 000 prisoners in the system. It is irresponsible for anyone to suggest that that is the appropriate level of staffing. The Government is reducing the prison population in this State. At the moment, Western Australia imprisons its citizens at a far higher rate than anywhere else in the country. The previous Government ran the most expensive prison system in Australia as well. All those factors are fluid. They will all have a significant impact. We must take those matters into account. The Government will employ in good jobs the number of prison officers that is needed to run the system. We will not artificially create employment for prison officers who are not needed. The previous Government found that those officers were not needed when it employed them on short-term contracts in the first place. Mr Birney: Are you proud of the fact that the prison population has dramatically reduced under the Labor Party? Mr McGINTY: The yardstick used by members opposite to measure the success of legislation was how many citizens it locked up. I regard that as an absolute admission of failure. No other State or Territory in Australia locks up minor offenders in the numbers or way they are locked up in Western Australia. Those people are more effectively punished outside the prisons. I am pleased that we are getting back to the norm. This Government treats the citizens of this State in a more sensible way. The economic rationalists opposite should consider that it costs $70 000 to keep one prisoner in prison for a year. That is taxpayers’ money that could be spent on schools, hospitals or a raft of other services. The Opposition wants the Government to spend precious dollars on locking up people who do not need to be locked up, because the nature of their offending is minor and they are not punished by imprisonment anywhere else in Australia. That economic irresponsibility on the part of the previous Government is being corrected by this Government. The SPEAKER: Order! Members who are not involved with the next item of business should carry on their conversations outside.
When that legislation comes into effect, I believe that it will have a significant impact on the clear-up rate and will ensure that people who should be in prison for committing serious offences are in prison. That impact will need to be offset against the reduction in the prison population that will occur as a result of the sentencing legislation that the Government will introduce next month. At the moment, the Prison Officers Union, with which I have regular dialogue, wants to maintain staffing levels to cover 3 000 prisoners when there are only 2 000 prisoners in the system. It is irresponsible for anyone to suggest that that is the appropriate level of staffing. The Government is reducing the prison population in this State. At the moment, Western Australia imprisons its citizens at a far higher rate than anywhere else in the country. The previous Government ran the most expensive prison system in Australia as well. All those factors are fluid. They will all have a significant impact. We must take those matters into account. The Government will employ in good jobs the number of prison officers that is needed to run the system. We will not artificially create employment for prison officers who are not needed. The previous Government found that those officers were not needed when it employed them on short-term contracts in the first place. Mr Birney: Are you proud of the fact that the prison population has dramatically reduced under the Labor Party? Mr McGINTY: The yardstick used by members opposite to measure the success of legislation was how many citizens it locked up. I regard that as an absolute admission of failure. No other State or Territory in Australia locks up minor offenders in the numbers or way they are locked up in Western Australia. Those people are more effectively punished outside the prisons. I am pleased that we are getting back to the norm. This Government treats the citizens of this State in a more sensible way. The economic rationalists opposite should consider that it costs $70 000 to keep one prisoner in prison for a year. That is taxpayers’ money that could be spent on schools, hospitals or a raft of other services. The Opposition wants the Government to spend precious dollars on locking up people who do not need to be locked up, because the nature of their offending is minor and they are not punished by imprisonment anywhere else in Australia. That economic irresponsibility on the part of the previous Government is being corrected by this Government. The SPEAKER: Order! Members who are not involved with the next item of business should carry on their conversations outside.
Mr Birney: Are you proud of the fact that the prison population has dramatically reduced under the Labor Party? Mr McGINTY: The yardstick used by members opposite to measure the success of legislation was how many citizens it locked up. I regard that as an absolute admission of failure. No other State or Territory in Australia locks up minor offenders in the numbers or way they are locked up in Western Australia. Those people are more effectively punished outside the prisons. I am pleased that we are getting back to the norm. This Government treats the citizens of this State in a more sensible way. The economic rationalists opposite should consider that it costs $70 000 to keep one prisoner in prison for a year. That is taxpayers’ money that could be spent on schools, hospitals or a raft of other services. The Opposition wants the Government to spend precious dollars on locking up people who do not need to be locked up, because the nature of their offending is minor and they are not punished by imprisonment anywhere else in Australia. That economic irresponsibility on the part of the previous Government is being corrected by this Government. The SPEAKER: Order! Members who are not involved with the next item of business should carry on their conversations outside.
Mr McGINTY: The yardstick used by members opposite to measure the success of legislation was how many citizens it locked up. I regard that as an absolute admission of failure. No other State or Territory in Australia locks up minor offenders in the numbers or way they are locked up in Western Australia. Those people are more effectively punished outside the prisons. I am pleased that we are getting back to the norm. This Government treats the citizens of this State in a more sensible way. The economic rationalists opposite should consider that it costs $70 000 to keep one prisoner in prison for a year. That is taxpayers’ money that could be spent on schools, hospitals or a raft of other services. The Opposition wants the Government to spend precious dollars on locking up people who do not need to be locked up, because the nature of their offending is minor and they are not punished by imprisonment anywhere else in Australia. That economic irresponsibility on the part of the previous Government is being corrected by this Government. The SPEAKER: Order! Members who are not involved with the next item of business should carry on their conversations outside.
The SPEAKER: Order! Members who are not involved with the next item of business should carry on their conversations outside.
(1) Will the minister confirm that the Department of Justice prison operations budget has been cut by up to $2.5 million? (2) Will the minister confirm that up to 92 prison officers are set to lose their jobs? (3) Is this reduction in the number of prison officers an indication that more convicted criminals are being released onto our streets, or is the minister under-resourcing our prisons? Mr McGINTY replied: (1)-(3) I thank the member for Nedlands for the opportunity to explain to the House something very important that is happening in our prison system. During the course of the past year there has been a reduction of one-third in the number of people in the State’s prisons. That number has come down from a peak during last year under the previous Government of approximately 3 200 prisoners in the State’s prisons to approximately 2 000. Ms Sue Walker interjected. Mr McGINTY: It is approximately 1 000. The member did not give me any notice of the question. I am doing my best to provide the best figures I can recollect. Last week, for instance, the prison population in the government prisons in Western Australia, in all prisons, including Acacia Prison - the privatised prison - was just under 2 800. Approximately 700 prisoners - and excuse me for not having the exact figure, but it is something of that order - have been transferred out of the government system into the private prison, Acacia, during the past 12 months, and that is now coming to an end. A combination of two things has applied. The first is the success of the Government’s move to get minor offenders - such as people convicted for motor vehicle offences such as driving without a motor vehicle licence - punished in the community rather than locked up in jail. That move has resulted in a reduction of approximately 400 people from the prison population in toto, and they are now being punished appropriately in the community. The second reason is the shift of prisoners out of the government prison system into the private prison system, which was an initiative of the previous Government. If those two figures are added together, almost 700 people have gone to the private system, and there has been a reduction of approximately 400 people out of the total prison population. We have approximately 1 000 fewer people in the prison system. It would be economically irresponsible to maintain staffing in the prison system at levels that were designed to cater for 3 000 prisoners when we have only 2 000 prisoners in the government prison system. That would be the height of economic irresponsibility. One of the things the previous Government did prior to losing the election - Ms Sue Walker interjected. Mr McGINTY: I will make this point to the member, because she will be very interested in this. I will not sit down until I have answered all the member’s questions. One of the things the previous Government did when it was in power was to employ - Ms Sue Walker interjected. Mr McGINTY: Just listen. Ms Sue Walker: I am trying to get an answer. Government members: Bleat, bleat! The SPEAKER: Order, members! Mr McGINTY: The member is getting an answer. One of the things the previous Government did was to engage prison officers on short-term contracts, for three years, to deal with the very problem that caused the new prison to be built at Acacia, and that was an explosion in the prison population under that Government which necessitated prison officers being employed on short-term contracts while the new private prison was being built, in the knowledge that prisoners would then be transferred out of the state prison system into the privatised prison. The previous Government set up a short-term contract arrangement. Those contracts are now coming to an end at a time when the prison population in government prisons is falling. What does the member want us to do - keep them employed? Ms Sue Walker: Will you answer the question? Mr McGINTY: The answer is no, we will not do that, because we will employ the number of prison officers that are necessary to run safe prisons in this State. We are doing that as these contracts are expiring. In the first round - about three months ago - approximately 50 prison officers out of 70 whose contracts were to expire were offered permanent employment. The most recent round, which occurred about two weeks ago - Ms Sue Walker interjected. Mr McGINTY: The member for Nedlands should listen. She will be better informed if she does. Ms Sue Walker interjected. Mr McGINTY: The member will be better informed, because she is obviously not aware of the background to this matter. It is important that she understand it. Ms Sue Walker: You cannot tell me how many prisoners are in the prison system. Mr McGINTY: Yes, I can. Ms Sue Walker: No, you can’t. Mr McGINTY: I have already provided that information. The number varies on a daily, or even an hourly, basis. The member for Nedlands will discover that as she gets a bit more experience in dealing with these matters. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER: Members! Mr McGINTY: As those contracts were expiring, contracts were also expiring for the second batch of 70 contract prison officers who were engaged by the previous Government on a short-term basis to deal with the peak in the prison population. This Government has given those prison officers advance notice that approximately 20 of those 70 officers will be kept, and that the rest will be surplus to requirements. The three-year contracts of a further 70 prison officers will terminate next year. Ms Sue Walker: Have you told them that they have lost their jobs? Mr McGINTY: Told whom? Ms Sue Walker: The 70 prison officers. Mr McGINTY: The next lot? Ms Sue Walker: The 70 prison officers. Mr McGINTY: Of course not. An assessment will need to be made next year about the number of prison officers who will be required in the light of the prison population at that time. Why on earth would the Government tell people that something will happen to them next year when we do not know the basis upon which that decision will be made? That might have been the way in which the member for Nedlands wanted to run the show, but we will employ the appropriate number of prison officers for the prison population. There has been a dramatic fall of about 1 000 people in the state prison population. The Government will not maintain the same number of prison officers that was employed to look after 3 000 prisoners - Ms Sue Walker: Is that figure accurate? The SPEAKER: Order, member for Nedlands! Mr McGINTY: I ask the member for Nedlands to zip it. The Government will not maintain prison officers at the level needed to look after 3 000 prisoners when there are only 2 000 in the government prison system. That is crystal clear. Mr Birney: Do you believe that the new DNA legislation will rapidly fill that hole in prison numbers? Mr McGINTY: It will have a significant impact. That is one reason the Government will need to review the next batch of 70 prison officers who are employed on three-year contracts. We will need to consider the impact of the DNA legislation when the Liberal Party eventually passes it through the Legislative Council and gets on with it. Several members interjected. Mr McGINTY: I am pleased to hear that. The member is obviously more up-to-date than I am on that matter. When that legislation comes into effect, I believe that it will have a significant impact on the clear-up rate and will ensure that people who should be in prison for committing serious offences are in prison. That impact will need to be offset against the reduction in the prison population that will occur as a result of the sentencing legislation that the Government will introduce next month. At the moment, the Prison Officers Union, with which I have regular dialogue, wants to maintain staffing levels to cover 3 000 prisoners when there are only 2 000 prisoners in the system. It is irresponsible for anyone to suggest that that is the appropriate level of staffing. The Government is reducing the prison population in this State. At the moment, Western Australia imprisons its citizens at a far higher rate than anywhere else in the country. The previous Government ran the most expensive prison system in Australia as well. All those factors are fluid. They will all have a significant impact. We must take those matters into account. The Government will employ in good jobs the number of prison officers that is needed to run the system. We will not artificially create employment for prison officers who are not needed. The previous Government found that those officers were not needed when it employed them on short-term contracts in the first place. Mr Birney: Are you proud of the fact that the prison population has dramatically reduced under the Labor Party? Mr McGINTY: The yardstick used by members opposite to measure the success of legislation was how many citizens it locked up. I regard that as an absolute admission of failure. No other State or Territory in Australia locks up minor offenders in the numbers or way they are locked up in Western Australia. Those people are more effectively punished outside the prisons. I am pleased that we are getting back to the norm. This Government treats the citizens of this State in a more sensible way. The economic rationalists opposite should consider that it costs $70 000 to keep one prisoner in prison for a year. That is taxpayers’ money that could be spent on schools, hospitals or a raft of other services. The Opposition wants the Government to spend precious dollars on locking up people who do not need to be locked up, because the nature of their offending is minor and they are not punished by imprisonment anywhere else in Australia. That economic irresponsibility on the part of the previous Government is being corrected by this Government. The SPEAKER: Order! Members who are not involved with the next item of business should carry on their conversations outside.
(2) Will the minister confirm that up to 92 prison officers are set to lose their jobs? (3) Is this reduction in the number of prison officers an indication that more convicted criminals are being released onto our streets, or is the minister under-resourcing our prisons? Mr McGINTY replied: (1)-(3) I thank the member for Nedlands for the opportunity to explain to the House something very important that is happening in our prison system. During the course of the past year there has been a reduction of one-third in the number of people in the State’s prisons. That number has come down from a peak during last year under the previous Government of approximately 3 200 prisoners in the State’s prisons to approximately 2 000. Ms Sue Walker interjected. Mr McGINTY: It is approximately 1 000. The member did not give me any notice of the question. I am doing my best to provide the best figures I can recollect. Last week, for instance, the prison population in the government prisons in Western Australia, in all prisons, including Acacia Prison - the privatised prison - was just under 2 800. Approximately 700 prisoners - and excuse me for not having the exact figure, but it is something of that order - have been transferred out of the government system into the private prison, Acacia, during the past 12 months, and that is now coming to an end. A combination of two things has applied. The first is the success of the Government’s move to get minor offenders - such as people convicted for motor vehicle offences such as driving without a motor vehicle licence - punished in the community rather than locked up in jail. That move has resulted in a reduction of approximately 400 people from the prison population in toto, and they are now being punished appropriately in the community. The second reason is the shift of prisoners out of the government prison system into the private prison system, which was an initiative of the previous Government. If those two figures are added together, almost 700 people have gone to the private system, and there has been a reduction of approximately 400 people out of the total prison population. We have approximately 1 000 fewer people in the prison system. It would be economically irresponsible to maintain staffing in the prison system at levels that were designed to cater for 3 000 prisoners when we have only 2 000 prisoners in the government prison system. That would be the height of economic irresponsibility. One of the things the previous Government did prior to losing the election - Ms Sue Walker interjected. Mr McGINTY: I will make this point to the member, because she will be very interested in this. I will not sit down until I have answered all the member’s questions. One of the things the previous Government did when it was in power was to employ - Ms Sue Walker interjected. Mr McGINTY: Just listen. Ms Sue Walker: I am trying to get an answer. Government members: Bleat, bleat! The SPEAKER: Order, members! Mr McGINTY: The member is getting an answer. One of the things the previous Government did was to engage prison officers on short-term contracts, for three years, to deal with the very problem that caused the new prison to be built at Acacia, and that was an explosion in the prison population under that Government which necessitated prison officers being employed on short-term contracts while the new private prison was being built, in the knowledge that prisoners would then be transferred out of the state prison system into the privatised prison. The previous Government set up a short-term contract arrangement. Those contracts are now coming to an end at a time when the prison population in government prisons is falling. What does the member want us to do - keep them employed? Ms Sue Walker: Will you answer the question? Mr McGINTY: The answer is no, we will not do that, because we will employ the number of prison officers that are necessary to run safe prisons in this State. We are doing that as these contracts are expiring. In the first round - about three months ago - approximately 50 prison officers out of 70 whose contracts were to expire were offered permanent employment. The most recent round, which occurred about two weeks ago - Ms Sue Walker interjected. Mr McGINTY: The member for Nedlands should listen. She will be better informed if she does. Ms Sue Walker interjected. Mr McGINTY: The member will be better informed, because she is obviously not aware of the background to this matter. It is important that she understand it. Ms Sue Walker: You cannot tell me how many prisoners are in the prison system. Mr McGINTY: Yes, I can. Ms Sue Walker: No, you can’t. Mr McGINTY: I have already provided that information. The number varies on a daily, or even an hourly, basis. The member for Nedlands will discover that as she gets a bit more experience in dealing with these matters. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER: Members! Mr McGINTY: As those contracts were expiring, contracts were also expiring for the second batch of 70 contract prison officers who were engaged by the previous Government on a short-term basis to deal with the peak in the prison population. This Government has given those prison officers advance notice that approximately 20 of those 70 officers will be kept, and that the rest will be surplus to requirements. The three-year contracts of a further 70 prison officers will terminate next year. Ms Sue Walker: Have you told them that they have lost their jobs? Mr McGINTY: Told whom? Ms Sue Walker: The 70 prison officers. Mr McGINTY: The next lot? Ms Sue Walker: The 70 prison officers. Mr McGINTY: Of course not. An assessment will need to be made next year about the number of prison officers who will be required in the light of the prison population at that time. Why on earth would the Government tell people that something will happen to them next year when we do not know the basis upon which that decision will be made? That might have been the way in which the member for Nedlands wanted to run the show, but we will employ the appropriate number of prison officers for the prison population. There has been a dramatic fall of about 1 000 people in the state prison population. The Government will not maintain the same number of prison officers that was employed to look after 3 000 prisoners - Ms Sue Walker: Is that figure accurate? The SPEAKER: Order, member for Nedlands! Mr McGINTY: I ask the member for Nedlands to zip it. The Government will not maintain prison officers at the level needed to look after 3 000 prisoners when there are only 2 000 in the government prison system. That is crystal clear. Mr Birney: Do you believe that the new DNA legislation will rapidly fill that hole in prison numbers? Mr McGINTY: It will have a significant impact. That is one reason the Government will need to review the next batch of 70 prison officers who are employed on three-year contracts. We will need to consider the impact of the DNA legislation when the Liberal Party eventually passes it through the Legislative Council and gets on with it. Several members interjected. Mr McGINTY: I am pleased to hear that. The member is obviously more up-to-date than I am on that matter. When that legislation comes into effect, I believe that it will have a significant impact on the clear-up rate and will ensure that people who should be in prison for committing serious offences are in prison. That impact will need to be offset against the reduction in the prison population that will occur as a result of the sentencing legislation that the Government will introduce next month. At the moment, the Prison Officers Union, with which I have regular dialogue, wants to maintain staffing levels to cover 3 000 prisoners when there are only 2 000 prisoners in the system. It is irresponsible for anyone to suggest that that is the appropriate level of staffing. The Government is reducing the prison population in this State. At the moment, Western Australia imprisons its citizens at a far higher rate than anywhere else in the country. The previous Government ran the most expensive prison system in Australia as well. All those factors are fluid. They will all have a significant impact. We must take those matters into account. The Government will employ in good jobs the number of prison officers that is needed to run the system. We will not artificially create employment for prison officers who are not needed. The previous Government found that those officers were not needed when it employed them on short-term contracts in the first place. Mr Birney: Are you proud of the fact that the prison population has dramatically reduced under the Labor Party? Mr McGINTY: The yardstick used by members opposite to measure the success of legislation was how many citizens it locked up. I regard that as an absolute admission of failure. No other State or Territory in Australia locks up minor offenders in the numbers or way they are locked up in Western Australia. Those people are more effectively punished outside the prisons. I am pleased that we are getting back to the norm. This Government treats the citizens of this State in a more sensible way. The economic rationalists opposite should consider that it costs $70 000 to keep one prisoner in prison for a year. That is taxpayers’ money that could be spent on schools, hospitals or a raft of other services. The Opposition wants the Government to spend precious dollars on locking up people who do not need to be locked up, because the nature of their offending is minor and they are not punished by imprisonment anywhere else in Australia. That economic irresponsibility on the part of the previous Government is being corrected by this Government. The SPEAKER: Order! Members who are not involved with the next item of business should carry on their conversations outside.
(3) Is this reduction in the number of prison officers an indication that more convicted criminals are being released onto our streets, or is the minister under-resourcing our prisons? Mr McGINTY replied: (1)-(3) I thank the member for Nedlands for the opportunity to explain to the House something very important that is happening in our prison system. During the course of the past year there has been a reduction of one-third in the number of people in the State’s prisons. That number has come down from a peak during last year under the previous Government of approximately 3 200 prisoners in the State’s prisons to approximately 2 000. Ms Sue Walker interjected. Mr McGINTY: It is approximately 1 000. The member did not give me any notice of the question. I am doing my best to provide the best figures I can recollect. Last week, for instance, the prison population in the government prisons in Western Australia, in all prisons, including Acacia Prison - the privatised prison - was just under 2 800. Approximately 700 prisoners - and excuse me for not having the exact figure, but it is something of that order - have been transferred out of the government system into the private prison, Acacia, during the past 12 months, and that is now coming to an end. A combination of two things has applied. The first is the success of the Government’s move to get minor offenders - such as people convicted for motor vehicle offences such as driving without a motor vehicle licence - punished in the community rather than locked up in jail. That move has resulted in a reduction of approximately 400 people from the prison population in toto, and they are now being punished appropriately in the community. The second reason is the shift of prisoners out of the government prison system into the private prison system, which was an initiative of the previous Government. If those two figures are added together, almost 700 people have gone to the private system, and there has been a reduction of approximately 400 people out of the total prison population. We have approximately 1 000 fewer people in the prison system. It would be economically irresponsible to maintain staffing in the prison system at levels that were designed to cater for 3 000 prisoners when we have only 2 000 prisoners in the government prison system. That would be the height of economic irresponsibility. One of the things the previous Government did prior to losing the election - Ms Sue Walker interjected. Mr McGINTY: I will make this point to the member, because she will be very interested in this. I will not sit down until I have answered all the member’s questions. One of the things the previous Government did when it was in power was to employ - Ms Sue Walker interjected. Mr McGINTY: Just listen. Ms Sue Walker: I am trying to get an answer. Government members: Bleat, bleat! The SPEAKER: Order, members! Mr McGINTY: The member is getting an answer. One of the things the previous Government did was to engage prison officers on short-term contracts, for three years, to deal with the very problem that caused the new prison to be built at Acacia, and that was an explosion in the prison population under that Government which necessitated prison officers being employed on short-term contracts while the new private prison was being built, in the knowledge that prisoners would then be transferred out of the state prison system into the privatised prison. The previous Government set up a short-term contract arrangement. Those contracts are now coming to an end at a time when the prison population in government prisons is falling. What does the member want us to do - keep them employed? Ms Sue Walker: Will you answer the question? Mr McGINTY: The answer is no, we will not do that, because we will employ the number of prison officers that are necessary to run safe prisons in this State. We are doing that as these contracts are expiring. In the first round - about three months ago - approximately 50 prison officers out of 70 whose contracts were to expire were offered permanent employment. The most recent round, which occurred about two weeks ago - Ms Sue Walker interjected. Mr McGINTY: The member for Nedlands should listen. She will be better informed if she does. Ms Sue Walker interjected. Mr McGINTY: The member will be better informed, because she is obviously not aware of the background to this matter. It is important that she understand it. Ms Sue Walker: You cannot tell me how many prisoners are in the prison system. Mr McGINTY: Yes, I can. Ms Sue Walker: No, you can’t. Mr McGINTY: I have already provided that information. The number varies on a daily, or even an hourly, basis. The member for Nedlands will discover that as she gets a bit more experience in dealing with these matters. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER: Members! Mr McGINTY: As those contracts were expiring, contracts were also expiring for the second batch of 70 contract prison officers who were engaged by the previous Government on a short-term basis to deal with the peak in the prison population. This Government has given those prison officers advance notice that approximately 20 of those 70 officers will be kept, and that the rest will be surplus to requirements. The three-year contracts of a further 70 prison officers will terminate next year. Ms Sue Walker: Have you told them that they have lost their jobs? Mr McGINTY: Told whom? Ms Sue Walker: The 70 prison officers. Mr McGINTY: The next lot? Ms Sue Walker: The 70 prison officers. Mr McGINTY: Of course not. An assessment will need to be made next year about the number of prison officers who will be required in the light of the prison population at that time. Why on earth would the Government tell people that something will happen to them next year when we do not know the basis upon which that decision will be made? That might have been the way in which the member for Nedlands wanted to run the show, but we will employ the appropriate number of prison officers for the prison population. There has been a dramatic fall of about 1 000 people in the state prison population. The Government will not maintain the same number of prison officers that was employed to look after 3 000 prisoners - Ms Sue Walker: Is that figure accurate? The SPEAKER: Order, member for Nedlands! Mr McGINTY: I ask the member for Nedlands to zip it. The Government will not maintain prison officers at the level needed to look after 3 000 prisoners when there are only 2 000 in the government prison system. That is crystal clear. Mr Birney: Do you believe that the new DNA legislation will rapidly fill that hole in prison numbers? Mr McGINTY: It will have a significant impact. That is one reason the Government will need to review the next batch of 70 prison officers who are employed on three-year contracts. We will need to consider the impact of the DNA legislation when the Liberal Party eventually passes it through the Legislative Council and gets on with it. Several members interjected. Mr McGINTY: I am pleased to hear that. The member is obviously more up-to-date than I am on that matter. When that legislation comes into effect, I believe that it will have a significant impact on the clear-up rate and will ensure that people who should be in prison for committing serious offences are in prison. That impact will need to be offset against the reduction in the prison population that will occur as a result of the sentencing legislation that the Government will introduce next month. At the moment, the Prison Officers Union, with which I have regular dialogue, wants to maintain staffing levels to cover 3 000 prisoners when there are only 2 000 prisoners in the system. It is irresponsible for anyone to suggest that that is the appropriate level of staffing. The Government is reducing the prison population in this State. At the moment, Western Australia imprisons its citizens at a far higher rate than anywhere else in the country. The previous Government ran the most expensive prison system in Australia as well. All those factors are fluid. They will all have a significant impact. We must take those matters into account. The Government will employ in good jobs the number of prison officers that is needed to run the system. We will not artificially create employment for prison officers who are not needed. The previous Government found that those officers were not needed when it employed them on short-term contracts in the first place. Mr Birney: Are you proud of the fact that the prison population has dramatically reduced under the Labor Party? Mr McGINTY: The yardstick used by members opposite to measure the success of legislation was how many citizens it locked up. I regard that as an absolute admission of failure. No other State or Territory in Australia locks up minor offenders in the numbers or way they are locked up in Western Australia. Those people are more effectively punished outside the prisons. I am pleased that we are getting back to the norm. This Government treats the citizens of this State in a more sensible way. The economic rationalists opposite should consider that it costs $70 000 to keep one prisoner in prison for a year. That is taxpayers’ money that could be spent on schools, hospitals or a raft of other services. The Opposition wants the Government to spend precious dollars on locking up people who do not need to be locked up, because the nature of their offending is minor and they are not punished by imprisonment anywhere else in Australia. That economic irresponsibility on the part of the previous Government is being corrected by this Government. The SPEAKER: Order! Members who are not involved with the next item of business should carry on their conversations outside.
Mr McGINTY replied: (1)-(3) I thank the member for Nedlands for the opportunity to explain to the House something very important that is happening in our prison system. During the course of the past year there has been a reduction of one-third in the number of people in the State’s prisons. That number has come down from a peak during last year under the previous Government of approximately 3 200 prisoners in the State’s prisons to approximately 2 000. Ms Sue Walker interjected. Mr McGINTY: It is approximately 1 000. The member did not give me any notice of the question. I am doing my best to provide the best figures I can recollect. Last week, for instance, the prison population in the government prisons in Western Australia, in all prisons, including Acacia Prison - the privatised prison - was just under 2 800. Approximately 700 prisoners - and excuse me for not having the exact figure, but it is something of that order - have been transferred out of the government system into the private prison, Acacia, during the past 12 months, and that is now coming to an end. A combination of two things has applied. The first is the success of the Government’s move to get minor offenders - such as people convicted for motor vehicle offences such as driving without a motor vehicle licence - punished in the community rather than locked up in jail. That move has resulted in a reduction of approximately 400 people from the prison population in toto, and they are now being punished appropriately in the community. The second reason is the shift of prisoners out of the government prison system into the private prison system, which was an initiative of the previous Government. If those two figures are added together, almost 700 people have gone to the private system, and there has been a reduction of approximately 400 people out of the total prison population. We have approximately 1 000 fewer people in the prison system. It would be economically irresponsible to maintain staffing in the prison system at levels that were designed to cater for 3 000 prisoners when we have only 2 000 prisoners in the government prison system. That would be the height of economic irresponsibility. One of the things the previous Government did prior to losing the election - Ms Sue Walker interjected. Mr McGINTY: I will make this point to the member, because she will be very interested in this. I will not sit down until I have answered all the member’s questions. One of the things the previous Government did when it was in power was to employ - Ms Sue Walker interjected. Mr McGINTY: Just listen. Ms Sue Walker: I am trying to get an answer. Government members: Bleat, bleat! The SPEAKER: Order, members! Mr McGINTY: The member is getting an answer. One of the things the previous Government did was to engage prison officers on short-term contracts, for three years, to deal with the very problem that caused the new prison to be built at Acacia, and that was an explosion in the prison population under that Government which necessitated prison officers being employed on short-term contracts while the new private prison was being built, in the knowledge that prisoners would then be transferred out of the state prison system into the privatised prison. The previous Government set up a short-term contract arrangement. Those contracts are now coming to an end at a time when the prison population in government prisons is falling. What does the member want us to do - keep them employed? Ms Sue Walker: Will you answer the question? Mr McGINTY: The answer is no, we will not do that, because we will employ the number of prison officers that are necessary to run safe prisons in this State. We are doing that as these contracts are expiring. In the first round - about three months ago - approximately 50 prison officers out of 70 whose contracts were to expire were offered permanent employment. The most recent round, which occurred about two weeks ago - Ms Sue Walker interjected. Mr McGINTY: The member for Nedlands should listen. She will be better informed if she does. Ms Sue Walker interjected. Mr McGINTY: The member will be better informed, because she is obviously not aware of the background to this matter. It is important that she understand it. Ms Sue Walker: You cannot tell me how many prisoners are in the prison system. Mr McGINTY: Yes, I can. Ms Sue Walker: No, you can’t. Mr McGINTY: I have already provided that information. The number varies on a daily, or even an hourly, basis. The member for Nedlands will discover that as she gets a bit more experience in dealing with these matters. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER: Members! Mr McGINTY: As those contracts were expiring, contracts were also expiring for the second batch of 70 contract prison officers who were engaged by the previous Government on a short-term basis to deal with the peak in the prison population. This Government has given those prison officers advance notice that approximately 20 of those 70 officers will be kept, and that the rest will be surplus to requirements. The three-year contracts of a further 70 prison officers will terminate next year. Ms Sue Walker: Have you told them that they have lost their jobs? Mr McGINTY: Told whom? Ms Sue Walker: The 70 prison officers. Mr McGINTY: The next lot? Ms Sue Walker: The 70 prison officers. Mr McGINTY: Of course not. An assessment will need to be made next year about the number of prison officers who will be required in the light of the prison population at that time. Why on earth would the Government tell people that something will happen to them next year when we do not know the basis upon which that decision will be made? That might have been the way in which the member for Nedlands wanted to run the show, but we will employ the appropriate number of prison officers for the prison population. There has been a dramatic fall of about 1 000 people in the state prison population. The Government will not maintain the same number of prison officers that was employed to look after 3 000 prisoners - Ms Sue Walker: Is that figure accurate? The SPEAKER: Order, member for Nedlands! Mr McGINTY: I ask the member for Nedlands to zip it. The Government will not maintain prison officers at the level needed to look after 3 000 prisoners when there are only 2 000 in the government prison system. That is crystal clear. Mr Birney: Do you believe that the new DNA legislation will rapidly fill that hole in prison numbers? Mr McGINTY: It will have a significant impact. That is one reason the Government will need to review the next batch of 70 prison officers who are employed on three-year contracts. We will need to consider the impact of the DNA legislation when the Liberal Party eventually passes it through the Legislative Council and gets on with it. Several members interjected. Mr McGINTY: I am pleased to hear that. The member is obviously more up-to-date than I am on that matter. When that legislation comes into effect, I believe that it will have a significant impact on the clear-up rate and will ensure that people who should be in prison for committing serious offences are in prison. That impact will need to be offset against the reduction in the prison population that will occur as a result of the sentencing legislation that the Government will introduce next month. At the moment, the Prison Officers Union, with which I have regular dialogue, wants to maintain staffing levels to cover 3 000 prisoners when there are only 2 000 prisoners in the system. It is irresponsible for anyone to suggest that that is the appropriate level of staffing. The Government is reducing the prison population in this State. At the moment, Western Australia imprisons its citizens at a far higher rate than anywhere else in the country. The previous Government ran the most expensive prison system in Australia as well. All those factors are fluid. They will all have a significant impact. We must take those matters into account. The Government will employ in good jobs the number of prison officers that is needed to run the system. We will not artificially create employment for prison officers who are not needed. The previous Government found that those officers were not needed when it employed them on short-term contracts in the first place. Mr Birney: Are you proud of the fact that the prison population has dramatically reduced under the Labor Party? Mr McGINTY: The yardstick used by members opposite to measure the success of legislation was how many citizens it locked up. I regard that as an absolute admission of failure. No other State or Territory in Australia locks up minor offenders in the numbers or way they are locked up in Western Australia. Those people are more effectively punished outside the prisons. I am pleased that we are getting back to the norm. This Government treats the citizens of this State in a more sensible way. The economic rationalists opposite should consider that it costs $70 000 to keep one prisoner in prison for a year. That is taxpayers’ money that could be spent on schools, hospitals or a raft of other services. The Opposition wants the Government to spend precious dollars on locking up people who do not need to be locked up, because the nature of their offending is minor and they are not punished by imprisonment anywhere else in Australia. That economic irresponsibility on the part of the previous Government is being corrected by this Government. The SPEAKER: Order! Members who are not involved with the next item of business should carry on their conversations outside.
(1)-(3) I thank the member for Nedlands for the opportunity to explain to the House something very important that is happening in our prison system. During the course of the past year there has been a reduction of one-third in the number of people in the State’s prisons. That number has come down from a peak during last year under the previous Government of approximately 3 200 prisoners in the State’s prisons to approximately 2 000. Ms Sue Walker interjected. Mr McGINTY: It is approximately 1 000. The member did not give me any notice of the question. I am doing my best to provide the best figures I can recollect. Last week, for instance, the prison population in the government prisons in Western Australia, in all prisons, including Acacia Prison - the privatised prison - was just under 2 800. Approximately 700 prisoners - and excuse me for not having the exact figure, but it is something of that order - have been transferred out of the government system into the private prison, Acacia, during the past 12 months, and that is now coming to an end. A combination of two things has applied. The first is the success of the Government’s move to get minor offenders - such as people convicted for motor vehicle offences such as driving without a motor vehicle licence - punished in the community rather than locked up in jail. That move has resulted in a reduction of approximately 400 people from the prison population in toto, and they are now being punished appropriately in the community. The second reason is the shift of prisoners out of the government prison system into the private prison system, which was an initiative of the previous Government. If those two figures are added together, almost 700 people have gone to the private system, and there has been a reduction of approximately 400 people out of the total prison population. We have approximately 1 000 fewer people in the prison system. It would be economically irresponsible to maintain staffing in the prison system at levels that were designed to cater for 3 000 prisoners when we have only 2 000 prisoners in the government prison system. That would be the height of economic irresponsibility. One of the things the previous Government did prior to losing the election - Ms Sue Walker interjected. Mr McGINTY: I will make this point to the member, because she will be very interested in this. I will not sit down until I have answered all the member’s questions. One of the things the previous Government did when it was in power was to employ - Ms Sue Walker interjected. Mr McGINTY: Just listen. Ms Sue Walker: I am trying to get an answer. Government members: Bleat, bleat! The SPEAKER: Order, members! Mr McGINTY: The member is getting an answer. One of the things the previous Government did was to engage prison officers on short-term contracts, for three years, to deal with the very problem that caused the new prison to be built at Acacia, and that was an explosion in the prison population under that Government which necessitated prison officers being employed on short-term contracts while the new private prison was being built, in the knowledge that prisoners would then be transferred out of the state prison system into the privatised prison. The previous Government set up a short-term contract arrangement. Those contracts are now coming to an end at a time when the prison population in government prisons is falling. What does the member want us to do - keep them employed? Ms Sue Walker: Will you answer the question? Mr McGINTY: The answer is no, we will not do that, because we will employ the number of prison officers that are necessary to run safe prisons in this State. We are doing that as these contracts are expiring. In the first round - about three months ago - approximately 50 prison officers out of 70 whose contracts were to expire were offered permanent employment. The most recent round, which occurred about two weeks ago - Ms Sue Walker interjected. Mr McGINTY: The member for Nedlands should listen. She will be better informed if she does. Ms Sue Walker interjected. Mr McGINTY: The member will be better informed, because she is obviously not aware of the background to this matter. It is important that she understand it. Ms Sue Walker: You cannot tell me how many prisoners are in the prison system. Mr McGINTY: Yes, I can. Ms Sue Walker: No, you can’t. Mr McGINTY: I have already provided that information. The number varies on a daily, or even an hourly, basis. The member for Nedlands will discover that as she gets a bit more experience in dealing with these matters. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER: Members! Mr McGINTY: As those contracts were expiring, contracts were also expiring for the second batch of 70 contract prison officers who were engaged by the previous Government on a short-term basis to deal with the peak in the prison population. This Government has given those prison officers advance notice that approximately 20 of those 70 officers will be kept, and that the rest will be surplus to requirements. The three-year contracts of a further 70 prison officers will terminate next year. Ms Sue Walker: Have you told them that they have lost their jobs? Mr McGINTY: Told whom? Ms Sue Walker: The 70 prison officers. Mr McGINTY: The next lot? Ms Sue Walker: The 70 prison officers. Mr McGINTY: Of course not. An assessment will need to be made next year about the number of prison officers who will be required in the light of the prison population at that time. Why on earth would the Government tell people that something will happen to them next year when we do not know the basis upon which that decision will be made? That might have been the way in which the member for Nedlands wanted to run the show, but we will employ the appropriate number of prison officers for the prison population. There has been a dramatic fall of about 1 000 people in the state prison population. The Government will not maintain the same number of prison officers that was employed to look after 3 000 prisoners - Ms Sue Walker: Is that figure accurate? The SPEAKER: Order, member for Nedlands! Mr McGINTY: I ask the member for Nedlands to zip it. The Government will not maintain prison officers at the level needed to look after 3 000 prisoners when there are only 2 000 in the government prison system. That is crystal clear. Mr Birney: Do you believe that the new DNA legislation will rapidly fill that hole in prison numbers? Mr McGINTY: It will have a significant impact. That is one reason the Government will need to review the next batch of 70 prison officers who are employed on three-year contracts. We will need to consider the impact of the DNA legislation when the Liberal Party eventually passes it through the Legislative Council and gets on with it. Several members interjected. Mr McGINTY: I am pleased to hear that. The member is obviously more up-to-date than I am on that matter. When that legislation comes into effect, I believe that it will have a significant impact on the clear-up rate and will ensure that people who should be in prison for committing serious offences are in prison. That impact will need to be offset against the reduction in the prison population that will occur as a result of the sentencing legislation that the Government will introduce next month. At the moment, the Prison Officers Union, with which I have regular dialogue, wants to maintain staffing levels to cover 3 000 prisoners when there are only 2 000 prisoners in the system. It is irresponsible for anyone to suggest that that is the appropriate level of staffing. The Government is reducing the prison population in this State. At the moment, Western Australia imprisons its citizens at a far higher rate than anywhere else in the country. The previous Government ran the most expensive prison system in Australia as well. All those factors are fluid. They will all have a significant impact. We must take those matters into account. The Government will employ in good jobs the number of prison officers that is needed to run the system. We will not artificially create employment for prison officers who are not needed. The previous Government found that those officers were not needed when it employed them on short-term contracts in the first place. Mr Birney: Are you proud of the fact that the prison population has dramatically reduced under the Labor Party? Mr McGINTY: The yardstick used by members opposite to measure the success of legislation was how many citizens it locked up. I regard that as an absolute admission of failure. No other State or Territory in Australia locks up minor offenders in the numbers or way they are locked up in Western Australia. Those people are more effectively punished outside the prisons. I am pleased that we are getting back to the norm. This Government treats the citizens of this State in a more sensible way. The economic rationalists opposite should consider that it costs $70 000 to keep one prisoner in prison for a year. That is taxpayers’ money that could be spent on schools, hospitals or a raft of other services. The Opposition wants the Government to spend precious dollars on locking up people who do not need to be locked up, because the nature of their offending is minor and they are not punished by imprisonment anywhere else in Australia. That economic irresponsibility on the part of the previous Government is being corrected by this Government. The SPEAKER: Order! Members who are not involved with the next item of business should carry on their conversations outside.
Ms Sue Walker interjected. Mr McGINTY: It is approximately 1 000. The member did not give me any notice of the question. I am doing my best to provide the best figures I can recollect. Last week, for instance, the prison population in the government prisons in Western Australia, in all prisons, including Acacia Prison - the privatised prison - was just under 2 800. Approximately 700 prisoners - and excuse me for not having the exact figure, but it is something of that order - have been transferred out of the government system into the private prison, Acacia, during the past 12 months, and that is now coming to an end. A combination of two things has applied. The first is the success of the Government’s move to get minor offenders - such as people convicted for motor vehicle offences such as driving without a motor vehicle licence - punished in the community rather than locked up in jail. That move has resulted in a reduction of approximately 400 people from the prison population in toto, and they are now being punished appropriately in the community. The second reason is the shift of prisoners out of the government prison system into the private prison system, which was an initiative of the previous Government. If those two figures are added together, almost 700 people have gone to the private system, and there has been a reduction of approximately 400 people out of the total prison population. We have approximately 1 000 fewer people in the prison system. It would be economically irresponsible to maintain staffing in the prison system at levels that were designed to cater for 3 000 prisoners when we have only 2 000 prisoners in the government prison system. That would be the height of economic irresponsibility. One of the things the previous Government did prior to losing the election - Ms Sue Walker interjected. Mr McGINTY: I will make this point to the member, because she will be very interested in this. I will not sit down until I have answered all the member’s questions. One of the things the previous Government did when it was in power was to employ - Ms Sue Walker interjected. Mr McGINTY: Just listen. Ms Sue Walker: I am trying to get an answer. Government members: Bleat, bleat! The SPEAKER: Order, members! Mr McGINTY: The member is getting an answer. One of the things the previous Government did was to engage prison officers on short-term contracts, for three years, to deal with the very problem that caused the new prison to be built at Acacia, and that was an explosion in the prison population under that Government which necessitated prison officers being employed on short-term contracts while the new private prison was being built, in the knowledge that prisoners would then be transferred out of the state prison system into the privatised prison. The previous Government set up a short-term contract arrangement. Those contracts are now coming to an end at a time when the prison population in government prisons is falling. What does the member want us to do - keep them employed? Ms Sue Walker: Will you answer the question? Mr McGINTY: The answer is no, we will not do that, because we will employ the number of prison officers that are necessary to run safe prisons in this State. We are doing that as these contracts are expiring. In the first round - about three months ago - approximately 50 prison officers out of 70 whose contracts were to expire were offered permanent employment. The most recent round, which occurred about two weeks ago - Ms Sue Walker interjected. Mr McGINTY: The member for Nedlands should listen. She will be better informed if she does. Ms Sue Walker interjected. Mr McGINTY: The member will be better informed, because she is obviously not aware of the background to this matter. It is important that she understand it. Ms Sue Walker: You cannot tell me how many prisoners are in the prison system. Mr McGINTY: Yes, I can. Ms Sue Walker: No, you can’t. Mr McGINTY: I have already provided that information. The number varies on a daily, or even an hourly, basis. The member for Nedlands will discover that as she gets a bit more experience in dealing with these matters. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER: Members! Mr McGINTY: As those contracts were expiring, contracts were also expiring for the second batch of 70 contract prison officers who were engaged by the previous Government on a short-term basis to deal with the peak in the prison population. This Government has given those prison officers advance notice that approximately 20 of those 70 officers will be kept, and that the rest will be surplus to requirements. The three-year contracts of a further 70 prison officers will terminate next year. Ms Sue Walker: Have you told them that they have lost their jobs? Mr McGINTY: Told whom? Ms Sue Walker: The 70 prison officers. Mr McGINTY: The next lot? Ms Sue Walker: The 70 prison officers. Mr McGINTY: Of course not. An assessment will need to be made next year about the number of prison officers who will be required in the light of the prison population at that time. Why on earth would the Government tell people that something will happen to them next year when we do not know the basis upon which that decision will be made? That might have been the way in which the member for Nedlands wanted to run the show, but we will employ the appropriate number of prison officers for the prison population. There has been a dramatic fall of about 1 000 people in the state prison population. The Government will not maintain the same number of prison officers that was employed to look after 3 000 prisoners - Ms Sue Walker: Is that figure accurate? The SPEAKER: Order, member for Nedlands! Mr McGINTY: I ask the member for Nedlands to zip it. The Government will not maintain prison officers at the level needed to look after 3 000 prisoners when there are only 2 000 in the government prison system. That is crystal clear. Mr Birney: Do you believe that the new DNA legislation will rapidly fill that hole in prison numbers? Mr McGINTY: It will have a significant impact. That is one reason the Government will need to review the next batch of 70 prison officers who are employed on three-year contracts. We will need to consider the impact of the DNA legislation when the Liberal Party eventually passes it through the Legislative Council and gets on with it. Several members interjected. Mr McGINTY: I am pleased to hear that. The member is obviously more up-to-date than I am on that matter. When that legislation comes into effect, I believe that it will have a significant impact on the clear-up rate and will ensure that people who should be in prison for committing serious offences are in prison. That impact will need to be offset against the reduction in the prison population that will occur as a result of the sentencing legislation that the Government will introduce next month. At the moment, the Prison Officers Union, with which I have regular dialogue, wants to maintain staffing levels to cover 3 000 prisoners when there are only 2 000 prisoners in the system. It is irresponsible for anyone to suggest that that is the appropriate level of staffing. The Government is reducing the prison population in this State. At the moment, Western Australia imprisons its citizens at a far higher rate than anywhere else in the country. The previous Government ran the most expensive prison system in Australia as well. All those factors are fluid. They will all have a significant impact. We must take those matters into account. The Government will employ in good jobs the number of prison officers that is needed to run the system. We will not artificially create employment for prison officers who are not needed. The previous Government found that those officers were not needed when it employed them on short-term contracts in the first place. Mr Birney: Are you proud of the fact that the prison population has dramatically reduced under the Labor Party? Mr McGINTY: The yardstick used by members opposite to measure the success of legislation was how many citizens it locked up. I regard that as an absolute admission of failure. No other State or Territory in Australia locks up minor offenders in the numbers or way they are locked up in Western Australia. Those people are more effectively punished outside the prisons. I am pleased that we are getting back to the norm. This Government treats the citizens of this State in a more sensible way. The economic rationalists opposite should consider that it costs $70 000 to keep one prisoner in prison for a year. That is taxpayers’ money that could be spent on schools, hospitals or a raft of other services. The Opposition wants the Government to spend precious dollars on locking up people who do not need to be locked up, because the nature of their offending is minor and they are not punished by imprisonment anywhere else in Australia. That economic irresponsibility on the part of the previous Government is being corrected by this Government. The SPEAKER: Order! Members who are not involved with the next item of business should carry on their conversations outside.
Mr McGINTY: It is approximately 1 000. The member did not give me any notice of the question. I am doing my best to provide the best figures I can recollect. Last week, for instance, the prison population in the government prisons in Western Australia, in all prisons, including Acacia Prison - the privatised prison - was just under 2 800. Approximately 700 prisoners - and excuse me for not having the exact figure, but it is something of that order - have been transferred out of the government system into the private prison, Acacia, during the past 12 months, and that is now coming to an end. A combination of two things has applied. The first is the success of the Government’s move to get minor offenders - such as people convicted for motor vehicle offences such as driving without a motor vehicle licence - punished in the community rather than locked up in jail. That move has resulted in a reduction of approximately 400 people from the prison population in toto, and they are now being punished appropriately in the community. The second reason is the shift of prisoners out of the government prison system into the private prison system, which was an initiative of the previous Government. If those two figures are added together, almost 700 people have gone to the private system, and there has been a reduction of approximately 400 people out of the total prison population. We have approximately 1 000 fewer people in the prison system. It would be economically irresponsible to maintain staffing in the prison system at levels that were designed to cater for 3 000 prisoners when we have only 2 000 prisoners in the government prison system. That would be the height of economic irresponsibility. One of the things the previous Government did prior to losing the election - Ms Sue Walker interjected. Mr McGINTY: I will make this point to the member, because she will be very interested in this. I will not sit down until I have answered all the member’s questions. One of the things the previous Government did when it was in power was to employ - Ms Sue Walker interjected. Mr McGINTY: Just listen. Ms Sue Walker: I am trying to get an answer. Government members: Bleat, bleat! The SPEAKER: Order, members! Mr McGINTY: The member is getting an answer. One of the things the previous Government did was to engage prison officers on short-term contracts, for three years, to deal with the very problem that caused the new prison to be built at Acacia, and that was an explosion in the prison population under that Government which necessitated prison officers being employed on short-term contracts while the new private prison was being built, in the knowledge that prisoners would then be transferred out of the state prison system into the privatised prison. The previous Government set up a short-term contract arrangement. Those contracts are now coming to an end at a time when the prison population in government prisons is falling. What does the member want us to do - keep them employed? Ms Sue Walker: Will you answer the question? Mr McGINTY: The answer is no, we will not do that, because we will employ the number of prison officers that are necessary to run safe prisons in this State. We are doing that as these contracts are expiring. In the first round - about three months ago - approximately 50 prison officers out of 70 whose contracts were to expire were offered permanent employment. The most recent round, which occurred about two weeks ago - Ms Sue Walker interjected. Mr McGINTY: The member for Nedlands should listen. She will be better informed if she does. Ms Sue Walker interjected. Mr McGINTY: The member will be better informed, because she is obviously not aware of the background to this matter. It is important that she understand it. Ms Sue Walker: You cannot tell me how many prisoners are in the prison system. Mr McGINTY: Yes, I can. Ms Sue Walker: No, you can’t. Mr McGINTY: I have already provided that information. The number varies on a daily, or even an hourly, basis. The member for Nedlands will discover that as she gets a bit more experience in dealing with these matters. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER: Members! Mr McGINTY: As those contracts were expiring, contracts were also expiring for the second batch of 70 contract prison officers who were engaged by the previous Government on a short-term basis to deal with the peak in the prison population. This Government has given those prison officers advance notice that approximately 20 of those 70 officers will be kept, and that the rest will be surplus to requirements. The three-year contracts of a further 70 prison officers will terminate next year. Ms Sue Walker: Have you told them that they have lost their jobs? Mr McGINTY: Told whom? Ms Sue Walker: The 70 prison officers. Mr McGINTY: The next lot? Ms Sue Walker: The 70 prison officers. Mr McGINTY: Of course not. An assessment will need to be made next year about the number of prison officers who will be required in the light of the prison population at that time. Why on earth would the Government tell people that something will happen to them next year when we do not know the basis upon which that decision will be made? That might have been the way in which the member for Nedlands wanted to run the show, but we will employ the appropriate number of prison officers for the prison population. There has been a dramatic fall of about 1 000 people in the state prison population. The Government will not maintain the same number of prison officers that was employed to look after 3 000 prisoners - Ms Sue Walker: Is that figure accurate? The SPEAKER: Order, member for Nedlands! Mr McGINTY: I ask the member for Nedlands to zip it. The Government will not maintain prison officers at the level needed to look after 3 000 prisoners when there are only 2 000 in the government prison system. That is crystal clear. Mr Birney: Do you believe that the new DNA legislation will rapidly fill that hole in prison numbers? Mr McGINTY: It will have a significant impact. That is one reason the Government will need to review the next batch of 70 prison officers who are employed on three-year contracts. We will need to consider the impact of the DNA legislation when the Liberal Party eventually passes it through the Legislative Council and gets on with it. Several members interjected. Mr McGINTY: I am pleased to hear that. The member is obviously more up-to-date than I am on that matter. When that legislation comes into effect, I believe that it will have a significant impact on the clear-up rate and will ensure that people who should be in prison for committing serious offences are in prison. That impact will need to be offset against the reduction in the prison population that will occur as a result of the sentencing legislation that the Government will introduce next month. At the moment, the Prison Officers Union, with which I have regular dialogue, wants to maintain staffing levels to cover 3 000 prisoners when there are only 2 000 prisoners in the system. It is irresponsible for anyone to suggest that that is the appropriate level of staffing. The Government is reducing the prison population in this State. At the moment, Western Australia imprisons its citizens at a far higher rate than anywhere else in the country. The previous Government ran the most expensive prison system in Australia as well. All those factors are fluid. They will all have a significant impact. We must take those matters into account. The Government will employ in good jobs the number of prison officers that is needed to run the system. We will not artificially create employment for prison officers who are not needed. The previous Government found that those officers were not needed when it employed them on short-term contracts in the first place. Mr Birney: Are you proud of the fact that the prison population has dramatically reduced under the Labor Party? Mr McGINTY: The yardstick used by members opposite to measure the success of legislation was how many citizens it locked up. I regard that as an absolute admission of failure. No other State or Territory in Australia locks up minor offenders in the numbers or way they are locked up in Western Australia. Those people are more effectively punished outside the prisons. I am pleased that we are getting back to the norm. This Government treats the citizens of this State in a more sensible way. The economic rationalists opposite should consider that it costs $70 000 to keep one prisoner in prison for a year. That is taxpayers’ money that could be spent on schools, hospitals or a raft of other services. The Opposition wants the Government to spend precious dollars on locking up people who do not need to be locked up, because the nature of their offending is minor and they are not punished by imprisonment anywhere else in Australia. That economic irresponsibility on the part of the previous Government is being corrected by this Government. The SPEAKER: Order! Members who are not involved with the next item of business should carry on their conversations outside.
It would be economically irresponsible to maintain staffing in the prison system at levels that were designed to cater for 3 000 prisoners when we have only 2 000 prisoners in the government prison system. That would be the height of economic irresponsibility. One of the things the previous Government did prior to losing the election - Ms Sue Walker interjected. Mr McGINTY: I will make this point to the member, because she will be very interested in this. I will not sit down until I have answered all the member’s questions. One of the things the previous Government did when it was in power was to employ - Ms Sue Walker interjected. Mr McGINTY: Just listen. Ms Sue Walker: I am trying to get an answer. Government members: Bleat, bleat! The SPEAKER: Order, members! Mr McGINTY: The member is getting an answer. One of the things the previous Government did was to engage prison officers on short-term contracts, for three years, to deal with the very problem that caused the new prison to be built at Acacia, and that was an explosion in the prison population under that Government which necessitated prison officers being employed on short-term contracts while the new private prison was being built, in the knowledge that prisoners would then be transferred out of the state prison system into the privatised prison. The previous Government set up a short-term contract arrangement. Those contracts are now coming to an end at a time when the prison population in government prisons is falling. What does the member want us to do - keep them employed? Ms Sue Walker: Will you answer the question? Mr McGINTY: The answer is no, we will not do that, because we will employ the number of prison officers that are necessary to run safe prisons in this State. We are doing that as these contracts are expiring. In the first round - about three months ago - approximately 50 prison officers out of 70 whose contracts were to expire were offered permanent employment. The most recent round, which occurred about two weeks ago - Ms Sue Walker interjected. Mr McGINTY: The member for Nedlands should listen. She will be better informed if she does. Ms Sue Walker interjected. Mr McGINTY: The member will be better informed, because she is obviously not aware of the background to this matter. It is important that she understand it. Ms Sue Walker: You cannot tell me how many prisoners are in the prison system. Mr McGINTY: Yes, I can. Ms Sue Walker: No, you can’t. Mr McGINTY: I have already provided that information. The number varies on a daily, or even an hourly, basis. The member for Nedlands will discover that as she gets a bit more experience in dealing with these matters. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER: Members! Mr McGINTY: As those contracts were expiring, contracts were also expiring for the second batch of 70 contract prison officers who were engaged by the previous Government on a short-term basis to deal with the peak in the prison population. This Government has given those prison officers advance notice that approximately 20 of those 70 officers will be kept, and that the rest will be surplus to requirements. The three-year contracts of a further 70 prison officers will terminate next year. Ms Sue Walker: Have you told them that they have lost their jobs? Mr McGINTY: Told whom? Ms Sue Walker: The 70 prison officers. Mr McGINTY: The next lot? Ms Sue Walker: The 70 prison officers. Mr McGINTY: Of course not. An assessment will need to be made next year about the number of prison officers who will be required in the light of the prison population at that time. Why on earth would the Government tell people that something will happen to them next year when we do not know the basis upon which that decision will be made? That might have been the way in which the member for Nedlands wanted to run the show, but we will employ the appropriate number of prison officers for the prison population. There has been a dramatic fall of about 1 000 people in the state prison population. The Government will not maintain the same number of prison officers that was employed to look after 3 000 prisoners - Ms Sue Walker: Is that figure accurate? The SPEAKER: Order, member for Nedlands! Mr McGINTY: I ask the member for Nedlands to zip it. The Government will not maintain prison officers at the level needed to look after 3 000 prisoners when there are only 2 000 in the government prison system. That is crystal clear. Mr Birney: Do you believe that the new DNA legislation will rapidly fill that hole in prison numbers? Mr McGINTY: It will have a significant impact. That is one reason the Government will need to review the next batch of 70 prison officers who are employed on three-year contracts. We will need to consider the impact of the DNA legislation when the Liberal Party eventually passes it through the Legislative Council and gets on with it. Several members interjected. Mr McGINTY: I am pleased to hear that. The member is obviously more up-to-date than I am on that matter. When that legislation comes into effect, I believe that it will have a significant impact on the clear-up rate and will ensure that people who should be in prison for committing serious offences are in prison. That impact will need to be offset against the reduction in the prison population that will occur as a result of the sentencing legislation that the Government will introduce next month. At the moment, the Prison Officers Union, with which I have regular dialogue, wants to maintain staffing levels to cover 3 000 prisoners when there are only 2 000 prisoners in the system. It is irresponsible for anyone to suggest that that is the appropriate level of staffing. The Government is reducing the prison population in this State. At the moment, Western Australia imprisons its citizens at a far higher rate than anywhere else in the country. The previous Government ran the most expensive prison system in Australia as well. All those factors are fluid. They will all have a significant impact. We must take those matters into account. The Government will employ in good jobs the number of prison officers that is needed to run the system. We will not artificially create employment for prison officers who are not needed. The previous Government found that those officers were not needed when it employed them on short-term contracts in the first place. Mr Birney: Are you proud of the fact that the prison population has dramatically reduced under the Labor Party? Mr McGINTY: The yardstick used by members opposite to measure the success of legislation was how many citizens it locked up. I regard that as an absolute admission of failure. No other State or Territory in Australia locks up minor offenders in the numbers or way they are locked up in Western Australia. Those people are more effectively punished outside the prisons. I am pleased that we are getting back to the norm. This Government treats the citizens of this State in a more sensible way. The economic rationalists opposite should consider that it costs $70 000 to keep one prisoner in prison for a year. That is taxpayers’ money that could be spent on schools, hospitals or a raft of other services. The Opposition wants the Government to spend precious dollars on locking up people who do not need to be locked up, because the nature of their offending is minor and they are not punished by imprisonment anywhere else in Australia. That economic irresponsibility on the part of the previous Government is being corrected by this Government. The SPEAKER: Order! Members who are not involved with the next item of business should carry on their conversations outside.
Ms Sue Walker interjected. Mr McGINTY: I will make this point to the member, because she will be very interested in this. I will not sit down until I have answered all the member’s questions. One of the things the previous Government did when it was in power was to employ - Ms Sue Walker interjected. Mr McGINTY: Just listen. Ms Sue Walker: I am trying to get an answer. Government members: Bleat, bleat! The SPEAKER: Order, members! Mr McGINTY: The member is getting an answer. One of the things the previous Government did was to engage prison officers on short-term contracts, for three years, to deal with the very problem that caused the new prison to be built at Acacia, and that was an explosion in the prison population under that Government which necessitated prison officers being employed on short-term contracts while the new private prison was being built, in the knowledge that prisoners would then be transferred out of the state prison system into the privatised prison. The previous Government set up a short-term contract arrangement. Those contracts are now coming to an end at a time when the prison population in government prisons is falling. What does the member want us to do - keep them employed? Ms Sue Walker: Will you answer the question? Mr McGINTY: The answer is no, we will not do that, because we will employ the number of prison officers that are necessary to run safe prisons in this State. We are doing that as these contracts are expiring. In the first round - about three months ago - approximately 50 prison officers out of 70 whose contracts were to expire were offered permanent employment. The most recent round, which occurred about two weeks ago - Ms Sue Walker interjected. Mr McGINTY: The member for Nedlands should listen. She will be better informed if she does. Ms Sue Walker interjected. Mr McGINTY: The member will be better informed, because she is obviously not aware of the background to this matter. It is important that she understand it. Ms Sue Walker: You cannot tell me how many prisoners are in the prison system. Mr McGINTY: Yes, I can. Ms Sue Walker: No, you can’t. Mr McGINTY: I have already provided that information. The number varies on a daily, or even an hourly, basis. The member for Nedlands will discover that as she gets a bit more experience in dealing with these matters. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER: Members! Mr McGINTY: As those contracts were expiring, contracts were also expiring for the second batch of 70 contract prison officers who were engaged by the previous Government on a short-term basis to deal with the peak in the prison population. This Government has given those prison officers advance notice that approximately 20 of those 70 officers will be kept, and that the rest will be surplus to requirements. The three-year contracts of a further 70 prison officers will terminate next year. Ms Sue Walker: Have you told them that they have lost their jobs? Mr McGINTY: Told whom? Ms Sue Walker: The 70 prison officers. Mr McGINTY: The next lot? Ms Sue Walker: The 70 prison officers. Mr McGINTY: Of course not. An assessment will need to be made next year about the number of prison officers who will be required in the light of the prison population at that time. Why on earth would the Government tell people that something will happen to them next year when we do not know the basis upon which that decision will be made? That might have been the way in which the member for Nedlands wanted to run the show, but we will employ the appropriate number of prison officers for the prison population. There has been a dramatic fall of about 1 000 people in the state prison population. The Government will not maintain the same number of prison officers that was employed to look after 3 000 prisoners - Ms Sue Walker: Is that figure accurate? The SPEAKER: Order, member for Nedlands! Mr McGINTY: I ask the member for Nedlands to zip it. The Government will not maintain prison officers at the level needed to look after 3 000 prisoners when there are only 2 000 in the government prison system. That is crystal clear. Mr Birney: Do you believe that the new DNA legislation will rapidly fill that hole in prison numbers? Mr McGINTY: It will have a significant impact. That is one reason the Government will need to review the next batch of 70 prison officers who are employed on three-year contracts. We will need to consider the impact of the DNA legislation when the Liberal Party eventually passes it through the Legislative Council and gets on with it. Several members interjected. Mr McGINTY: I am pleased to hear that. The member is obviously more up-to-date than I am on that matter. When that legislation comes into effect, I believe that it will have a significant impact on the clear-up rate and will ensure that people who should be in prison for committing serious offences are in prison. That impact will need to be offset against the reduction in the prison population that will occur as a result of the sentencing legislation that the Government will introduce next month. At the moment, the Prison Officers Union, with which I have regular dialogue, wants to maintain staffing levels to cover 3 000 prisoners when there are only 2 000 prisoners in the system. It is irresponsible for anyone to suggest that that is the appropriate level of staffing. The Government is reducing the prison population in this State. At the moment, Western Australia imprisons its citizens at a far higher rate than anywhere else in the country. The previous Government ran the most expensive prison system in Australia as well. All those factors are fluid. They will all have a significant impact. We must take those matters into account. The Government will employ in good jobs the number of prison officers that is needed to run the system. We will not artificially create employment for prison officers who are not needed. The previous Government found that those officers were not needed when it employed them on short-term contracts in the first place. Mr Birney: Are you proud of the fact that the prison population has dramatically reduced under the Labor Party? Mr McGINTY: The yardstick used by members opposite to measure the success of legislation was how many citizens it locked up. I regard that as an absolute admission of failure. No other State or Territory in Australia locks up minor offenders in the numbers or way they are locked up in Western Australia. Those people are more effectively punished outside the prisons. I am pleased that we are getting back to the norm. This Government treats the citizens of this State in a more sensible way. The economic rationalists opposite should consider that it costs $70 000 to keep one prisoner in prison for a year. That is taxpayers’ money that could be spent on schools, hospitals or a raft of other services. The Opposition wants the Government to spend precious dollars on locking up people who do not need to be locked up, because the nature of their offending is minor and they are not punished by imprisonment anywhere else in Australia. That economic irresponsibility on the part of the previous Government is being corrected by this Government. The SPEAKER: Order! Members who are not involved with the next item of business should carry on their conversations outside.
Mr McGINTY: I will make this point to the member, because she will be very interested in this. I will not sit down until I have answered all the member’s questions. One of the things the previous Government did when it was in power was to employ - Ms Sue Walker interjected. Mr McGINTY: Just listen. Ms Sue Walker: I am trying to get an answer. Government members: Bleat, bleat! The SPEAKER: Order, members! Mr McGINTY: The member is getting an answer. One of the things the previous Government did was to engage prison officers on short-term contracts, for three years, to deal with the very problem that caused the new prison to be built at Acacia, and that was an explosion in the prison population under that Government which necessitated prison officers being employed on short-term contracts while the new private prison was being built, in the knowledge that prisoners would then be transferred out of the state prison system into the privatised prison. The previous Government set up a short-term contract arrangement. Those contracts are now coming to an end at a time when the prison population in government prisons is falling. What does the member want us to do - keep them employed? Ms Sue Walker: Will you answer the question? Mr McGINTY: The answer is no, we will not do that, because we will employ the number of prison officers that are necessary to run safe prisons in this State. We are doing that as these contracts are expiring. In the first round - about three months ago - approximately 50 prison officers out of 70 whose contracts were to expire were offered permanent employment. The most recent round, which occurred about two weeks ago - Ms Sue Walker interjected. Mr McGINTY: The member for Nedlands should listen. She will be better informed if she does. Ms Sue Walker interjected. Mr McGINTY: The member will be better informed, because she is obviously not aware of the background to this matter. It is important that she understand it. Ms Sue Walker: You cannot tell me how many prisoners are in the prison system. Mr McGINTY: Yes, I can. Ms Sue Walker: No, you can’t. Mr McGINTY: I have already provided that information. The number varies on a daily, or even an hourly, basis. The member for Nedlands will discover that as she gets a bit more experience in dealing with these matters. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER: Members! Mr McGINTY: As those contracts were expiring, contracts were also expiring for the second batch of 70 contract prison officers who were engaged by the previous Government on a short-term basis to deal with the peak in the prison population. This Government has given those prison officers advance notice that approximately 20 of those 70 officers will be kept, and that the rest will be surplus to requirements. The three-year contracts of a further 70 prison officers will terminate next year. Ms Sue Walker: Have you told them that they have lost their jobs? Mr McGINTY: Told whom? Ms Sue Walker: The 70 prison officers. Mr McGINTY: The next lot? Ms Sue Walker: The 70 prison officers. Mr McGINTY: Of course not. An assessment will need to be made next year about the number of prison officers who will be required in the light of the prison population at that time. Why on earth would the Government tell people that something will happen to them next year when we do not know the basis upon which that decision will be made? That might have been the way in which the member for Nedlands wanted to run the show, but we will employ the appropriate number of prison officers for the prison population. There has been a dramatic fall of about 1 000 people in the state prison population. The Government will not maintain the same number of prison officers that was employed to look after 3 000 prisoners - Ms Sue Walker: Is that figure accurate? The SPEAKER: Order, member for Nedlands! Mr McGINTY: I ask the member for Nedlands to zip it. The Government will not maintain prison officers at the level needed to look after 3 000 prisoners when there are only 2 000 in the government prison system. That is crystal clear. Mr Birney: Do you believe that the new DNA legislation will rapidly fill that hole in prison numbers? Mr McGINTY: It will have a significant impact. That is one reason the Government will need to review the next batch of 70 prison officers who are employed on three-year contracts. We will need to consider the impact of the DNA legislation when the Liberal Party eventually passes it through the Legislative Council and gets on with it. Several members interjected. Mr McGINTY: I am pleased to hear that. The member is obviously more up-to-date than I am on that matter. When that legislation comes into effect, I believe that it will have a significant impact on the clear-up rate and will ensure that people who should be in prison for committing serious offences are in prison. That impact will need to be offset against the reduction in the prison population that will occur as a result of the sentencing legislation that the Government will introduce next month. At the moment, the Prison Officers Union, with which I have regular dialogue, wants to maintain staffing levels to cover 3 000 prisoners when there are only 2 000 prisoners in the system. It is irresponsible for anyone to suggest that that is the appropriate level of staffing. The Government is reducing the prison population in this State. At the moment, Western Australia imprisons its citizens at a far higher rate than anywhere else in the country. The previous Government ran the most expensive prison system in Australia as well. All those factors are fluid. They will all have a significant impact. We must take those matters into account. The Government will employ in good jobs the number of prison officers that is needed to run the system. We will not artificially create employment for prison officers who are not needed. The previous Government found that those officers were not needed when it employed them on short-term contracts in the first place. Mr Birney: Are you proud of the fact that the prison population has dramatically reduced under the Labor Party? Mr McGINTY: The yardstick used by members opposite to measure the success of legislation was how many citizens it locked up. I regard that as an absolute admission of failure. No other State or Territory in Australia locks up minor offenders in the numbers or way they are locked up in Western Australia. Those people are more effectively punished outside the prisons. I am pleased that we are getting back to the norm. This Government treats the citizens of this State in a more sensible way. The economic rationalists opposite should consider that it costs $70 000 to keep one prisoner in prison for a year. That is taxpayers’ money that could be spent on schools, hospitals or a raft of other services. The Opposition wants the Government to spend precious dollars on locking up people who do not need to be locked up, because the nature of their offending is minor and they are not punished by imprisonment anywhere else in Australia. That economic irresponsibility on the part of the previous Government is being corrected by this Government. The SPEAKER: Order! Members who are not involved with the next item of business should carry on their conversations outside.
Ms Sue Walker interjected. Mr McGINTY: Just listen. Ms Sue Walker: I am trying to get an answer. Government members: Bleat, bleat! The SPEAKER: Order, members! Mr McGINTY: The member is getting an answer. One of the things the previous Government did was to engage prison officers on short-term contracts, for three years, to deal with the very problem that caused the new prison to be built at Acacia, and that was an explosion in the prison population under that Government which necessitated prison officers being employed on short-term contracts while the new private prison was being built, in the knowledge that prisoners would then be transferred out of the state prison system into the privatised prison. The previous Government set up a short-term contract arrangement. Those contracts are now coming to an end at a time when the prison population in government prisons is falling. What does the member want us to do - keep them employed? Ms Sue Walker: Will you answer the question? Mr McGINTY: The answer is no, we will not do that, because we will employ the number of prison officers that are necessary to run safe prisons in this State. We are doing that as these contracts are expiring. In the first round - about three months ago - approximately 50 prison officers out of 70 whose contracts were to expire were offered permanent employment. The most recent round, which occurred about two weeks ago - Ms Sue Walker interjected. Mr McGINTY: The member for Nedlands should listen. She will be better informed if she does. Ms Sue Walker interjected. Mr McGINTY: The member will be better informed, because she is obviously not aware of the background to this matter. It is important that she understand it. Ms Sue Walker: You cannot tell me how many prisoners are in the prison system. Mr McGINTY: Yes, I can. Ms Sue Walker: No, you can’t. Mr McGINTY: I have already provided that information. The number varies on a daily, or even an hourly, basis. The member for Nedlands will discover that as she gets a bit more experience in dealing with these matters. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER: Members! Mr McGINTY: As those contracts were expiring, contracts were also expiring for the second batch of 70 contract prison officers who were engaged by the previous Government on a short-term basis to deal with the peak in the prison population. This Government has given those prison officers advance notice that approximately 20 of those 70 officers will be kept, and that the rest will be surplus to requirements. The three-year contracts of a further 70 prison officers will terminate next year. Ms Sue Walker: Have you told them that they have lost their jobs? Mr McGINTY: Told whom? Ms Sue Walker: The 70 prison officers. Mr McGINTY: The next lot? Ms Sue Walker: The 70 prison officers. Mr McGINTY: Of course not. An assessment will need to be made next year about the number of prison officers who will be required in the light of the prison population at that time. Why on earth would the Government tell people that something will happen to them next year when we do not know the basis upon which that decision will be made? That might have been the way in which the member for Nedlands wanted to run the show, but we will employ the appropriate number of prison officers for the prison population. There has been a dramatic fall of about 1 000 people in the state prison population. The Government will not maintain the same number of prison officers that was employed to look after 3 000 prisoners - Ms Sue Walker: Is that figure accurate? The SPEAKER: Order, member for Nedlands! Mr McGINTY: I ask the member for Nedlands to zip it. The Government will not maintain prison officers at the level needed to look after 3 000 prisoners when there are only 2 000 in the government prison system. That is crystal clear. Mr Birney: Do you believe that the new DNA legislation will rapidly fill that hole in prison numbers? Mr McGINTY: It will have a significant impact. That is one reason the Government will need to review the next batch of 70 prison officers who are employed on three-year contracts. We will need to consider the impact of the DNA legislation when the Liberal Party eventually passes it through the Legislative Council and gets on with it. Several members interjected. Mr McGINTY: I am pleased to hear that. The member is obviously more up-to-date than I am on that matter. When that legislation comes into effect, I believe that it will have a significant impact on the clear-up rate and will ensure that people who should be in prison for committing serious offences are in prison. That impact will need to be offset against the reduction in the prison population that will occur as a result of the sentencing legislation that the Government will introduce next month. At the moment, the Prison Officers Union, with which I have regular dialogue, wants to maintain staffing levels to cover 3 000 prisoners when there are only 2 000 prisoners in the system. It is irresponsible for anyone to suggest that that is the appropriate level of staffing. The Government is reducing the prison population in this State. At the moment, Western Australia imprisons its citizens at a far higher rate than anywhere else in the country. The previous Government ran the most expensive prison system in Australia as well. All those factors are fluid. They will all have a significant impact. We must take those matters into account. The Government will employ in good jobs the number of prison officers that is needed to run the system. We will not artificially create employment for prison officers who are not needed. The previous Government found that those officers were not needed when it employed them on short-term contracts in the first place. Mr Birney: Are you proud of the fact that the prison population has dramatically reduced under the Labor Party? Mr McGINTY: The yardstick used by members opposite to measure the success of legislation was how many citizens it locked up. I regard that as an absolute admission of failure. No other State or Territory in Australia locks up minor offenders in the numbers or way they are locked up in Western Australia. Those people are more effectively punished outside the prisons. I am pleased that we are getting back to the norm. This Government treats the citizens of this State in a more sensible way. The economic rationalists opposite should consider that it costs $70 000 to keep one prisoner in prison for a year. That is taxpayers’ money that could be spent on schools, hospitals or a raft of other services. The Opposition wants the Government to spend precious dollars on locking up people who do not need to be locked up, because the nature of their offending is minor and they are not punished by imprisonment anywhere else in Australia. That economic irresponsibility on the part of the previous Government is being corrected by this Government. The SPEAKER: Order! Members who are not involved with the next item of business should carry on their conversations outside.
Mr McGINTY: Just listen. Ms Sue Walker: I am trying to get an answer. Government members: Bleat, bleat! The SPEAKER: Order, members! Mr McGINTY: The member is getting an answer. One of the things the previous Government did was to engage prison officers on short-term contracts, for three years, to deal with the very problem that caused the new prison to be built at Acacia, and that was an explosion in the prison population under that Government which necessitated prison officers being employed on short-term contracts while the new private prison was being built, in the knowledge that prisoners would then be transferred out of the state prison system into the privatised prison. The previous Government set up a short-term contract arrangement. Those contracts are now coming to an end at a time when the prison population in government prisons is falling. What does the member want us to do - keep them employed? Ms Sue Walker: Will you answer the question? Mr McGINTY: The answer is no, we will not do that, because we will employ the number of prison officers that are necessary to run safe prisons in this State. We are doing that as these contracts are expiring. In the first round - about three months ago - approximately 50 prison officers out of 70 whose contracts were to expire were offered permanent employment. The most recent round, which occurred about two weeks ago - Ms Sue Walker interjected. Mr McGINTY: The member for Nedlands should listen. She will be better informed if she does. Ms Sue Walker interjected. Mr McGINTY: The member will be better informed, because she is obviously not aware of the background to this matter. It is important that she understand it. Ms Sue Walker: You cannot tell me how many prisoners are in the prison system. Mr McGINTY: Yes, I can. Ms Sue Walker: No, you can’t. Mr McGINTY: I have already provided that information. The number varies on a daily, or even an hourly, basis. The member for Nedlands will discover that as she gets a bit more experience in dealing with these matters. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER: Members! Mr McGINTY: As those contracts were expiring, contracts were also expiring for the second batch of 70 contract prison officers who were engaged by the previous Government on a short-term basis to deal with the peak in the prison population. This Government has given those prison officers advance notice that approximately 20 of those 70 officers will be kept, and that the rest will be surplus to requirements. The three-year contracts of a further 70 prison officers will terminate next year. Ms Sue Walker: Have you told them that they have lost their jobs? Mr McGINTY: Told whom? Ms Sue Walker: The 70 prison officers. Mr McGINTY: The next lot? Ms Sue Walker: The 70 prison officers. Mr McGINTY: Of course not. An assessment will need to be made next year about the number of prison officers who will be required in the light of the prison population at that time. Why on earth would the Government tell people that something will happen to them next year when we do not know the basis upon which that decision will be made? That might have been the way in which the member for Nedlands wanted to run the show, but we will employ the appropriate number of prison officers for the prison population. There has been a dramatic fall of about 1 000 people in the state prison population. The Government will not maintain the same number of prison officers that was employed to look after 3 000 prisoners - Ms Sue Walker: Is that figure accurate? The SPEAKER: Order, member for Nedlands! Mr McGINTY: I ask the member for Nedlands to zip it. The Government will not maintain prison officers at the level needed to look after 3 000 prisoners when there are only 2 000 in the government prison system. That is crystal clear. Mr Birney: Do you believe that the new DNA legislation will rapidly fill that hole in prison numbers? Mr McGINTY: It will have a significant impact. That is one reason the Government will need to review the next batch of 70 prison officers who are employed on three-year contracts. We will need to consider the impact of the DNA legislation when the Liberal Party eventually passes it through the Legislative Council and gets on with it. Several members interjected. Mr McGINTY: I am pleased to hear that. The member is obviously more up-to-date than I am on that matter. When that legislation comes into effect, I believe that it will have a significant impact on the clear-up rate and will ensure that people who should be in prison for committing serious offences are in prison. That impact will need to be offset against the reduction in the prison population that will occur as a result of the sentencing legislation that the Government will introduce next month. At the moment, the Prison Officers Union, with which I have regular dialogue, wants to maintain staffing levels to cover 3 000 prisoners when there are only 2 000 prisoners in the system. It is irresponsible for anyone to suggest that that is the appropriate level of staffing. The Government is reducing the prison population in this State. At the moment, Western Australia imprisons its citizens at a far higher rate than anywhere else in the country. The previous Government ran the most expensive prison system in Australia as well. All those factors are fluid. They will all have a significant impact. We must take those matters into account. The Government will employ in good jobs the number of prison officers that is needed to run the system. We will not artificially create employment for prison officers who are not needed. The previous Government found that those officers were not needed when it employed them on short-term contracts in the first place. Mr Birney: Are you proud of the fact that the prison population has dramatically reduced under the Labor Party? Mr McGINTY: The yardstick used by members opposite to measure the success of legislation was how many citizens it locked up. I regard that as an absolute admission of failure. No other State or Territory in Australia locks up minor offenders in the numbers or way they are locked up in Western Australia. Those people are more effectively punished outside the prisons. I am pleased that we are getting back to the norm. This Government treats the citizens of this State in a more sensible way. The economic rationalists opposite should consider that it costs $70 000 to keep one prisoner in prison for a year. That is taxpayers’ money that could be spent on schools, hospitals or a raft of other services. The Opposition wants the Government to spend precious dollars on locking up people who do not need to be locked up, because the nature of their offending is minor and they are not punished by imprisonment anywhere else in Australia. That economic irresponsibility on the part of the previous Government is being corrected by this Government. The SPEAKER: Order! Members who are not involved with the next item of business should carry on their conversations outside.
Ms Sue Walker: I am trying to get an answer. Government members: Bleat, bleat! The SPEAKER: Order, members! Mr McGINTY: The member is getting an answer. One of the things the previous Government did was to engage prison officers on short-term contracts, for three years, to deal with the very problem that caused the new prison to be built at Acacia, and that was an explosion in the prison population under that Government which necessitated prison officers being employed on short-term contracts while the new private prison was being built, in the knowledge that prisoners would then be transferred out of the state prison system into the privatised prison. The previous Government set up a short-term contract arrangement. Those contracts are now coming to an end at a time when the prison population in government prisons is falling. What does the member want us to do - keep them employed? Ms Sue Walker: Will you answer the question? Mr McGINTY: The answer is no, we will not do that, because we will employ the number of prison officers that are necessary to run safe prisons in this State. We are doing that as these contracts are expiring. In the first round - about three months ago - approximately 50 prison officers out of 70 whose contracts were to expire were offered permanent employment. The most recent round, which occurred about two weeks ago - Ms Sue Walker interjected. Mr McGINTY: The member for Nedlands should listen. She will be better informed if she does. Ms Sue Walker interjected. Mr McGINTY: The member will be better informed, because she is obviously not aware of the background to this matter. It is important that she understand it. Ms Sue Walker: You cannot tell me how many prisoners are in the prison system. Mr McGINTY: Yes, I can. Ms Sue Walker: No, you can’t. Mr McGINTY: I have already provided that information. The number varies on a daily, or even an hourly, basis. The member for Nedlands will discover that as she gets a bit more experience in dealing with these matters. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER: Members! Mr McGINTY: As those contracts were expiring, contracts were also expiring for the second batch of 70 contract prison officers who were engaged by the previous Government on a short-term basis to deal with the peak in the prison population. This Government has given those prison officers advance notice that approximately 20 of those 70 officers will be kept, and that the rest will be surplus to requirements. The three-year contracts of a further 70 prison officers will terminate next year. Ms Sue Walker: Have you told them that they have lost their jobs? Mr McGINTY: Told whom? Ms Sue Walker: The 70 prison officers. Mr McGINTY: The next lot? Ms Sue Walker: The 70 prison officers. Mr McGINTY: Of course not. An assessment will need to be made next year about the number of prison officers who will be required in the light of the prison population at that time. Why on earth would the Government tell people that something will happen to them next year when we do not know the basis upon which that decision will be made? That might have been the way in which the member for Nedlands wanted to run the show, but we will employ the appropriate number of prison officers for the prison population. There has been a dramatic fall of about 1 000 people in the state prison population. The Government will not maintain the same number of prison officers that was employed to look after 3 000 prisoners - Ms Sue Walker: Is that figure accurate? The SPEAKER: Order, member for Nedlands! Mr McGINTY: I ask the member for Nedlands to zip it. The Government will not maintain prison officers at the level needed to look after 3 000 prisoners when there are only 2 000 in the government prison system. That is crystal clear. Mr Birney: Do you believe that the new DNA legislation will rapidly fill that hole in prison numbers? Mr McGINTY: It will have a significant impact. That is one reason the Government will need to review the next batch of 70 prison officers who are employed on three-year contracts. We will need to consider the impact of the DNA legislation when the Liberal Party eventually passes it through the Legislative Council and gets on with it. Several members interjected. Mr McGINTY: I am pleased to hear that. The member is obviously more up-to-date than I am on that matter. When that legislation comes into effect, I believe that it will have a significant impact on the clear-up rate and will ensure that people who should be in prison for committing serious offences are in prison. That impact will need to be offset against the reduction in the prison population that will occur as a result of the sentencing legislation that the Government will introduce next month. At the moment, the Prison Officers Union, with which I have regular dialogue, wants to maintain staffing levels to cover 3 000 prisoners when there are only 2 000 prisoners in the system. It is irresponsible for anyone to suggest that that is the appropriate level of staffing. The Government is reducing the prison population in this State. At the moment, Western Australia imprisons its citizens at a far higher rate than anywhere else in the country. The previous Government ran the most expensive prison system in Australia as well. All those factors are fluid. They will all have a significant impact. We must take those matters into account. The Government will employ in good jobs the number of prison officers that is needed to run the system. We will not artificially create employment for prison officers who are not needed. The previous Government found that those officers were not needed when it employed them on short-term contracts in the first place. Mr Birney: Are you proud of the fact that the prison population has dramatically reduced under the Labor Party? Mr McGINTY: The yardstick used by members opposite to measure the success of legislation was how many citizens it locked up. I regard that as an absolute admission of failure. No other State or Territory in Australia locks up minor offenders in the numbers or way they are locked up in Western Australia. Those people are more effectively punished outside the prisons. I am pleased that we are getting back to the norm. This Government treats the citizens of this State in a more sensible way. The economic rationalists opposite should consider that it costs $70 000 to keep one prisoner in prison for a year. That is taxpayers’ money that could be spent on schools, hospitals or a raft of other services. The Opposition wants the Government to spend precious dollars on locking up people who do not need to be locked up, because the nature of their offending is minor and they are not punished by imprisonment anywhere else in Australia. That economic irresponsibility on the part of the previous Government is being corrected by this Government. The SPEAKER: Order! Members who are not involved with the next item of business should carry on their conversations outside.
Government members: Bleat, bleat! The SPEAKER: Order, members! Mr McGINTY: The member is getting an answer. One of the things the previous Government did was to engage prison officers on short-term contracts, for three years, to deal with the very problem that caused the new prison to be built at Acacia, and that was an explosion in the prison population under that Government which necessitated prison officers being employed on short-term contracts while the new private prison was being built, in the knowledge that prisoners would then be transferred out of the state prison system into the privatised prison. The previous Government set up a short-term contract arrangement. Those contracts are now coming to an end at a time when the prison population in government prisons is falling. What does the member want us to do - keep them employed? Ms Sue Walker: Will you answer the question? Mr McGINTY: The answer is no, we will not do that, because we will employ the number of prison officers that are necessary to run safe prisons in this State. We are doing that as these contracts are expiring. In the first round - about three months ago - approximately 50 prison officers out of 70 whose contracts were to expire were offered permanent employment. The most recent round, which occurred about two weeks ago - Ms Sue Walker interjected. Mr McGINTY: The member for Nedlands should listen. She will be better informed if she does. Ms Sue Walker interjected. Mr McGINTY: The member will be better informed, because she is obviously not aware of the background to this matter. It is important that she understand it. Ms Sue Walker: You cannot tell me how many prisoners are in the prison system. Mr McGINTY: Yes, I can. Ms Sue Walker: No, you can’t. Mr McGINTY: I have already provided that information. The number varies on a daily, or even an hourly, basis. The member for Nedlands will discover that as she gets a bit more experience in dealing with these matters. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER: Members! Mr McGINTY: As those contracts were expiring, contracts were also expiring for the second batch of 70 contract prison officers who were engaged by the previous Government on a short-term basis to deal with the peak in the prison population. This Government has given those prison officers advance notice that approximately 20 of those 70 officers will be kept, and that the rest will be surplus to requirements. The three-year contracts of a further 70 prison officers will terminate next year. Ms Sue Walker: Have you told them that they have lost their jobs? Mr McGINTY: Told whom? Ms Sue Walker: The 70 prison officers. Mr McGINTY: The next lot? Ms Sue Walker: The 70 prison officers. Mr McGINTY: Of course not. An assessment will need to be made next year about the number of prison officers who will be required in the light of the prison population at that time. Why on earth would the Government tell people that something will happen to them next year when we do not know the basis upon which that decision will be made? That might have been the way in which the member for Nedlands wanted to run the show, but we will employ the appropriate number of prison officers for the prison population. There has been a dramatic fall of about 1 000 people in the state prison population. The Government will not maintain the same number of prison officers that was employed to look after 3 000 prisoners - Ms Sue Walker: Is that figure accurate? The SPEAKER: Order, member for Nedlands! Mr McGINTY: I ask the member for Nedlands to zip it. The Government will not maintain prison officers at the level needed to look after 3 000 prisoners when there are only 2 000 in the government prison system. That is crystal clear. Mr Birney: Do you believe that the new DNA legislation will rapidly fill that hole in prison numbers? Mr McGINTY: It will have a significant impact. That is one reason the Government will need to review the next batch of 70 prison officers who are employed on three-year contracts. We will need to consider the impact of the DNA legislation when the Liberal Party eventually passes it through the Legislative Council and gets on with it. Several members interjected. Mr McGINTY: I am pleased to hear that. The member is obviously more up-to-date than I am on that matter. When that legislation comes into effect, I believe that it will have a significant impact on the clear-up rate and will ensure that people who should be in prison for committing serious offences are in prison. That impact will need to be offset against the reduction in the prison population that will occur as a result of the sentencing legislation that the Government will introduce next month. At the moment, the Prison Officers Union, with which I have regular dialogue, wants to maintain staffing levels to cover 3 000 prisoners when there are only 2 000 prisoners in the system. It is irresponsible for anyone to suggest that that is the appropriate level of staffing. The Government is reducing the prison population in this State. At the moment, Western Australia imprisons its citizens at a far higher rate than anywhere else in the country. The previous Government ran the most expensive prison system in Australia as well. All those factors are fluid. They will all have a significant impact. We must take those matters into account. The Government will employ in good jobs the number of prison officers that is needed to run the system. We will not artificially create employment for prison officers who are not needed. The previous Government found that those officers were not needed when it employed them on short-term contracts in the first place. Mr Birney: Are you proud of the fact that the prison population has dramatically reduced under the Labor Party? Mr McGINTY: The yardstick used by members opposite to measure the success of legislation was how many citizens it locked up. I regard that as an absolute admission of failure. No other State or Territory in Australia locks up minor offenders in the numbers or way they are locked up in Western Australia. Those people are more effectively punished outside the prisons. I am pleased that we are getting back to the norm. This Government treats the citizens of this State in a more sensible way. The economic rationalists opposite should consider that it costs $70 000 to keep one prisoner in prison for a year. That is taxpayers’ money that could be spent on schools, hospitals or a raft of other services. The Opposition wants the Government to spend precious dollars on locking up people who do not need to be locked up, because the nature of their offending is minor and they are not punished by imprisonment anywhere else in Australia. That economic irresponsibility on the part of the previous Government is being corrected by this Government. The SPEAKER: Order! Members who are not involved with the next item of business should carry on their conversations outside.
The SPEAKER: Order, members! Mr McGINTY: The member is getting an answer. One of the things the previous Government did was to engage prison officers on short-term contracts, for three years, to deal with the very problem that caused the new prison to be built at Acacia, and that was an explosion in the prison population under that Government which necessitated prison officers being employed on short-term contracts while the new private prison was being built, in the knowledge that prisoners would then be transferred out of the state prison system into the privatised prison. The previous Government set up a short-term contract arrangement. Those contracts are now coming to an end at a time when the prison population in government prisons is falling. What does the member want us to do - keep them employed? Ms Sue Walker: Will you answer the question? Mr McGINTY: The answer is no, we will not do that, because we will employ the number of prison officers that are necessary to run safe prisons in this State. We are doing that as these contracts are expiring. In the first round - about three months ago - approximately 50 prison officers out of 70 whose contracts were to expire were offered permanent employment. The most recent round, which occurred about two weeks ago - Ms Sue Walker interjected. Mr McGINTY: The member for Nedlands should listen. She will be better informed if she does. Ms Sue Walker interjected. Mr McGINTY: The member will be better informed, because she is obviously not aware of the background to this matter. It is important that she understand it. Ms Sue Walker: You cannot tell me how many prisoners are in the prison system. Mr McGINTY: Yes, I can. Ms Sue Walker: No, you can’t. Mr McGINTY: I have already provided that information. The number varies on a daily, or even an hourly, basis. The member for Nedlands will discover that as she gets a bit more experience in dealing with these matters. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER: Members! Mr McGINTY: As those contracts were expiring, contracts were also expiring for the second batch of 70 contract prison officers who were engaged by the previous Government on a short-term basis to deal with the peak in the prison population. This Government has given those prison officers advance notice that approximately 20 of those 70 officers will be kept, and that the rest will be surplus to requirements. The three-year contracts of a further 70 prison officers will terminate next year. Ms Sue Walker: Have you told them that they have lost their jobs? Mr McGINTY: Told whom? Ms Sue Walker: The 70 prison officers. Mr McGINTY: The next lot? Ms Sue Walker: The 70 prison officers. Mr McGINTY: Of course not. An assessment will need to be made next year about the number of prison officers who will be required in the light of the prison population at that time. Why on earth would the Government tell people that something will happen to them next year when we do not know the basis upon which that decision will be made? That might have been the way in which the member for Nedlands wanted to run the show, but we will employ the appropriate number of prison officers for the prison population. There has been a dramatic fall of about 1 000 people in the state prison population. The Government will not maintain the same number of prison officers that was employed to look after 3 000 prisoners - Ms Sue Walker: Is that figure accurate? The SPEAKER: Order, member for Nedlands! Mr McGINTY: I ask the member for Nedlands to zip it. The Government will not maintain prison officers at the level needed to look after 3 000 prisoners when there are only 2 000 in the government prison system. That is crystal clear. Mr Birney: Do you believe that the new DNA legislation will rapidly fill that hole in prison numbers? Mr McGINTY: It will have a significant impact. That is one reason the Government will need to review the next batch of 70 prison officers who are employed on three-year contracts. We will need to consider the impact of the DNA legislation when the Liberal Party eventually passes it through the Legislative Council and gets on with it. Several members interjected. Mr McGINTY: I am pleased to hear that. The member is obviously more up-to-date than I am on that matter. When that legislation comes into effect, I believe that it will have a significant impact on the clear-up rate and will ensure that people who should be in prison for committing serious offences are in prison. That impact will need to be offset against the reduction in the prison population that will occur as a result of the sentencing legislation that the Government will introduce next month. At the moment, the Prison Officers Union, with which I have regular dialogue, wants to maintain staffing levels to cover 3 000 prisoners when there are only 2 000 prisoners in the system. It is irresponsible for anyone to suggest that that is the appropriate level of staffing. The Government is reducing the prison population in this State. At the moment, Western Australia imprisons its citizens at a far higher rate than anywhere else in the country. The previous Government ran the most expensive prison system in Australia as well. All those factors are fluid. They will all have a significant impact. We must take those matters into account. The Government will employ in good jobs the number of prison officers that is needed to run the system. We will not artificially create employment for prison officers who are not needed. The previous Government found that those officers were not needed when it employed them on short-term contracts in the first place. Mr Birney: Are you proud of the fact that the prison population has dramatically reduced under the Labor Party? Mr McGINTY: The yardstick used by members opposite to measure the success of legislation was how many citizens it locked up. I regard that as an absolute admission of failure. No other State or Territory in Australia locks up minor offenders in the numbers or way they are locked up in Western Australia. Those people are more effectively punished outside the prisons. I am pleased that we are getting back to the norm. This Government treats the citizens of this State in a more sensible way. The economic rationalists opposite should consider that it costs $70 000 to keep one prisoner in prison for a year. That is taxpayers’ money that could be spent on schools, hospitals or a raft of other services. The Opposition wants the Government to spend precious dollars on locking up people who do not need to be locked up, because the nature of their offending is minor and they are not punished by imprisonment anywhere else in Australia. That economic irresponsibility on the part of the previous Government is being corrected by this Government. The SPEAKER: Order! Members who are not involved with the next item of business should carry on their conversations outside.
Mr McGINTY: The member is getting an answer. One of the things the previous Government did was to engage prison officers on short-term contracts, for three years, to deal with the very problem that caused the new prison to be built at Acacia, and that was an explosion in the prison population under that Government which necessitated prison officers being employed on short-term contracts while the new private prison was being built, in the knowledge that prisoners would then be transferred out of the state prison system into the privatised prison. The previous Government set up a short-term contract arrangement. Those contracts are now coming to an end at a time when the prison population in government prisons is falling. What does the member want us to do - keep them employed? Ms Sue Walker: Will you answer the question? Mr McGINTY: The answer is no, we will not do that, because we will employ the number of prison officers that are necessary to run safe prisons in this State. We are doing that as these contracts are expiring. In the first round - about three months ago - approximately 50 prison officers out of 70 whose contracts were to expire were offered permanent employment. The most recent round, which occurred about two weeks ago - Ms Sue Walker interjected. Mr McGINTY: The member for Nedlands should listen. She will be better informed if she does. Ms Sue Walker interjected. Mr McGINTY: The member will be better informed, because she is obviously not aware of the background to this matter. It is important that she understand it. Ms Sue Walker: You cannot tell me how many prisoners are in the prison system. Mr McGINTY: Yes, I can. Ms Sue Walker: No, you can’t. Mr McGINTY: I have already provided that information. The number varies on a daily, or even an hourly, basis. The member for Nedlands will discover that as she gets a bit more experience in dealing with these matters. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER: Members! Mr McGINTY: As those contracts were expiring, contracts were also expiring for the second batch of 70 contract prison officers who were engaged by the previous Government on a short-term basis to deal with the peak in the prison population. This Government has given those prison officers advance notice that approximately 20 of those 70 officers will be kept, and that the rest will be surplus to requirements. The three-year contracts of a further 70 prison officers will terminate next year. Ms Sue Walker: Have you told them that they have lost their jobs? Mr McGINTY: Told whom? Ms Sue Walker: The 70 prison officers. Mr McGINTY: The next lot? Ms Sue Walker: The 70 prison officers. Mr McGINTY: Of course not. An assessment will need to be made next year about the number of prison officers who will be required in the light of the prison population at that time. Why on earth would the Government tell people that something will happen to them next year when we do not know the basis upon which that decision will be made? That might have been the way in which the member for Nedlands wanted to run the show, but we will employ the appropriate number of prison officers for the prison population. There has been a dramatic fall of about 1 000 people in the state prison population. The Government will not maintain the same number of prison officers that was employed to look after 3 000 prisoners - Ms Sue Walker: Is that figure accurate? The SPEAKER: Order, member for Nedlands! Mr McGINTY: I ask the member for Nedlands to zip it. The Government will not maintain prison officers at the level needed to look after 3 000 prisoners when there are only 2 000 in the government prison system. That is crystal clear. Mr Birney: Do you believe that the new DNA legislation will rapidly fill that hole in prison numbers? Mr McGINTY: It will have a significant impact. That is one reason the Government will need to review the next batch of 70 prison officers who are employed on three-year contracts. We will need to consider the impact of the DNA legislation when the Liberal Party eventually passes it through the Legislative Council and gets on with it. Several members interjected. Mr McGINTY: I am pleased to hear that. The member is obviously more up-to-date than I am on that matter. When that legislation comes into effect, I believe that it will have a significant impact on the clear-up rate and will ensure that people who should be in prison for committing serious offences are in prison. That impact will need to be offset against the reduction in the prison population that will occur as a result of the sentencing legislation that the Government will introduce next month. At the moment, the Prison Officers Union, with which I have regular dialogue, wants to maintain staffing levels to cover 3 000 prisoners when there are only 2 000 prisoners in the system. It is irresponsible for anyone to suggest that that is the appropriate level of staffing. The Government is reducing the prison population in this State. At the moment, Western Australia imprisons its citizens at a far higher rate than anywhere else in the country. The previous Government ran the most expensive prison system in Australia as well. All those factors are fluid. They will all have a significant impact. We must take those matters into account. The Government will employ in good jobs the number of prison officers that is needed to run the system. We will not artificially create employment for prison officers who are not needed. The previous Government found that those officers were not needed when it employed them on short-term contracts in the first place. Mr Birney: Are you proud of the fact that the prison population has dramatically reduced under the Labor Party? Mr McGINTY: The yardstick used by members opposite to measure the success of legislation was how many citizens it locked up. I regard that as an absolute admission of failure. No other State or Territory in Australia locks up minor offenders in the numbers or way they are locked up in Western Australia. Those people are more effectively punished outside the prisons. I am pleased that we are getting back to the norm. This Government treats the citizens of this State in a more sensible way. The economic rationalists opposite should consider that it costs $70 000 to keep one prisoner in prison for a year. That is taxpayers’ money that could be spent on schools, hospitals or a raft of other services. The Opposition wants the Government to spend precious dollars on locking up people who do not need to be locked up, because the nature of their offending is minor and they are not punished by imprisonment anywhere else in Australia. That economic irresponsibility on the part of the previous Government is being corrected by this Government. The SPEAKER: Order! Members who are not involved with the next item of business should carry on their conversations outside.
Ms Sue Walker: Will you answer the question? Mr McGINTY: The answer is no, we will not do that, because we will employ the number of prison officers that are necessary to run safe prisons in this State. We are doing that as these contracts are expiring. In the first round - about three months ago - approximately 50 prison officers out of 70 whose contracts were to expire were offered permanent employment. The most recent round, which occurred about two weeks ago - Ms Sue Walker interjected. Mr McGINTY: The member for Nedlands should listen. She will be better informed if she does. Ms Sue Walker interjected. Mr McGINTY: The member will be better informed, because she is obviously not aware of the background to this matter. It is important that she understand it. Ms Sue Walker: You cannot tell me how many prisoners are in the prison system. Mr McGINTY: Yes, I can. Ms Sue Walker: No, you can’t. Mr McGINTY: I have already provided that information. The number varies on a daily, or even an hourly, basis. The member for Nedlands will discover that as she gets a bit more experience in dealing with these matters. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER: Members! Mr McGINTY: As those contracts were expiring, contracts were also expiring for the second batch of 70 contract prison officers who were engaged by the previous Government on a short-term basis to deal with the peak in the prison population. This Government has given those prison officers advance notice that approximately 20 of those 70 officers will be kept, and that the rest will be surplus to requirements. The three-year contracts of a further 70 prison officers will terminate next year. Ms Sue Walker: Have you told them that they have lost their jobs? Mr McGINTY: Told whom? Ms Sue Walker: The 70 prison officers. Mr McGINTY: The next lot? Ms Sue Walker: The 70 prison officers. Mr McGINTY: Of course not. An assessment will need to be made next year about the number of prison officers who will be required in the light of the prison population at that time. Why on earth would the Government tell people that something will happen to them next year when we do not know the basis upon which that decision will be made? That might have been the way in which the member for Nedlands wanted to run the show, but we will employ the appropriate number of prison officers for the prison population. There has been a dramatic fall of about 1 000 people in the state prison population. The Government will not maintain the same number of prison officers that was employed to look after 3 000 prisoners - Ms Sue Walker: Is that figure accurate? The SPEAKER: Order, member for Nedlands! Mr McGINTY: I ask the member for Nedlands to zip it. The Government will not maintain prison officers at the level needed to look after 3 000 prisoners when there are only 2 000 in the government prison system. That is crystal clear. Mr Birney: Do you believe that the new DNA legislation will rapidly fill that hole in prison numbers? Mr McGINTY: It will have a significant impact. That is one reason the Government will need to review the next batch of 70 prison officers who are employed on three-year contracts. We will need to consider the impact of the DNA legislation when the Liberal Party eventually passes it through the Legislative Council and gets on with it. Several members interjected. Mr McGINTY: I am pleased to hear that. The member is obviously more up-to-date than I am on that matter. When that legislation comes into effect, I believe that it will have a significant impact on the clear-up rate and will ensure that people who should be in prison for committing serious offences are in prison. That impact will need to be offset against the reduction in the prison population that will occur as a result of the sentencing legislation that the Government will introduce next month. At the moment, the Prison Officers Union, with which I have regular dialogue, wants to maintain staffing levels to cover 3 000 prisoners when there are only 2 000 prisoners in the system. It is irresponsible for anyone to suggest that that is the appropriate level of staffing. The Government is reducing the prison population in this State. At the moment, Western Australia imprisons its citizens at a far higher rate than anywhere else in the country. The previous Government ran the most expensive prison system in Australia as well. All those factors are fluid. They will all have a significant impact. We must take those matters into account. The Government will employ in good jobs the number of prison officers that is needed to run the system. We will not artificially create employment for prison officers who are not needed. The previous Government found that those officers were not needed when it employed them on short-term contracts in the first place. Mr Birney: Are you proud of the fact that the prison population has dramatically reduced under the Labor Party? Mr McGINTY: The yardstick used by members opposite to measure the success of legislation was how many citizens it locked up. I regard that as an absolute admission of failure. No other State or Territory in Australia locks up minor offenders in the numbers or way they are locked up in Western Australia. Those people are more effectively punished outside the prisons. I am pleased that we are getting back to the norm. This Government treats the citizens of this State in a more sensible way. The economic rationalists opposite should consider that it costs $70 000 to keep one prisoner in prison for a year. That is taxpayers’ money that could be spent on schools, hospitals or a raft of other services. The Opposition wants the Government to spend precious dollars on locking up people who do not need to be locked up, because the nature of their offending is minor and they are not punished by imprisonment anywhere else in Australia. That economic irresponsibility on the part of the previous Government is being corrected by this Government. The SPEAKER: Order! Members who are not involved with the next item of business should carry on their conversations outside.
Mr McGINTY: The answer is no, we will not do that, because we will employ the number of prison officers that are necessary to run safe prisons in this State. We are doing that as these contracts are expiring. In the first round - about three months ago - approximately 50 prison officers out of 70 whose contracts were to expire were offered permanent employment. The most recent round, which occurred about two weeks ago - Ms Sue Walker interjected. Mr McGINTY: The member for Nedlands should listen. She will be better informed if she does. Ms Sue Walker interjected. Mr McGINTY: The member will be better informed, because she is obviously not aware of the background to this matter. It is important that she understand it. Ms Sue Walker: You cannot tell me how many prisoners are in the prison system. Mr McGINTY: Yes, I can. Ms Sue Walker: No, you can’t. Mr McGINTY: I have already provided that information. The number varies on a daily, or even an hourly, basis. The member for Nedlands will discover that as she gets a bit more experience in dealing with these matters. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER: Members! Mr McGINTY: As those contracts were expiring, contracts were also expiring for the second batch of 70 contract prison officers who were engaged by the previous Government on a short-term basis to deal with the peak in the prison population. This Government has given those prison officers advance notice that approximately 20 of those 70 officers will be kept, and that the rest will be surplus to requirements. The three-year contracts of a further 70 prison officers will terminate next year. Ms Sue Walker: Have you told them that they have lost their jobs? Mr McGINTY: Told whom? Ms Sue Walker: The 70 prison officers. Mr McGINTY: The next lot? Ms Sue Walker: The 70 prison officers. Mr McGINTY: Of course not. An assessment will need to be made next year about the number of prison officers who will be required in the light of the prison population at that time. Why on earth would the Government tell people that something will happen to them next year when we do not know the basis upon which that decision will be made? That might have been the way in which the member for Nedlands wanted to run the show, but we will employ the appropriate number of prison officers for the prison population. There has been a dramatic fall of about 1 000 people in the state prison population. The Government will not maintain the same number of prison officers that was employed to look after 3 000 prisoners - Ms Sue Walker: Is that figure accurate? The SPEAKER: Order, member for Nedlands! Mr McGINTY: I ask the member for Nedlands to zip it. The Government will not maintain prison officers at the level needed to look after 3 000 prisoners when there are only 2 000 in the government prison system. That is crystal clear. Mr Birney: Do you believe that the new DNA legislation will rapidly fill that hole in prison numbers? Mr McGINTY: It will have a significant impact. That is one reason the Government will need to review the next batch of 70 prison officers who are employed on three-year contracts. We will need to consider the impact of the DNA legislation when the Liberal Party eventually passes it through the Legislative Council and gets on with it. Several members interjected. Mr McGINTY: I am pleased to hear that. The member is obviously more up-to-date than I am on that matter. When that legislation comes into effect, I believe that it will have a significant impact on the clear-up rate and will ensure that people who should be in prison for committing serious offences are in prison. That impact will need to be offset against the reduction in the prison population that will occur as a result of the sentencing legislation that the Government will introduce next month. At the moment, the Prison Officers Union, with which I have regular dialogue, wants to maintain staffing levels to cover 3 000 prisoners when there are only 2 000 prisoners in the system. It is irresponsible for anyone to suggest that that is the appropriate level of staffing. The Government is reducing the prison population in this State. At the moment, Western Australia imprisons its citizens at a far higher rate than anywhere else in the country. The previous Government ran the most expensive prison system in Australia as well. All those factors are fluid. They will all have a significant impact. We must take those matters into account. The Government will employ in good jobs the number of prison officers that is needed to run the system. We will not artificially create employment for prison officers who are not needed. The previous Government found that those officers were not needed when it employed them on short-term contracts in the first place. Mr Birney: Are you proud of the fact that the prison population has dramatically reduced under the Labor Party? Mr McGINTY: The yardstick used by members opposite to measure the success of legislation was how many citizens it locked up. I regard that as an absolute admission of failure. No other State or Territory in Australia locks up minor offenders in the numbers or way they are locked up in Western Australia. Those people are more effectively punished outside the prisons. I am pleased that we are getting back to the norm. This Government treats the citizens of this State in a more sensible way. The economic rationalists opposite should consider that it costs $70 000 to keep one prisoner in prison for a year. That is taxpayers’ money that could be spent on schools, hospitals or a raft of other services. The Opposition wants the Government to spend precious dollars on locking up people who do not need to be locked up, because the nature of their offending is minor and they are not punished by imprisonment anywhere else in Australia. That economic irresponsibility on the part of the previous Government is being corrected by this Government. The SPEAKER: Order! Members who are not involved with the next item of business should carry on their conversations outside.
Ms Sue Walker interjected. Mr McGINTY: The member for Nedlands should listen. She will be better informed if she does. Ms Sue Walker interjected. Mr McGINTY: The member will be better informed, because she is obviously not aware of the background to this matter. It is important that she understand it. Ms Sue Walker: You cannot tell me how many prisoners are in the prison system. Mr McGINTY: Yes, I can. Ms Sue Walker: No, you can’t. Mr McGINTY: I have already provided that information. The number varies on a daily, or even an hourly, basis. The member for Nedlands will discover that as she gets a bit more experience in dealing with these matters. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER: Members! Mr McGINTY: As those contracts were expiring, contracts were also expiring for the second batch of 70 contract prison officers who were engaged by the previous Government on a short-term basis to deal with the peak in the prison population. This Government has given those prison officers advance notice that approximately 20 of those 70 officers will be kept, and that the rest will be surplus to requirements. The three-year contracts of a further 70 prison officers will terminate next year. Ms Sue Walker: Have you told them that they have lost their jobs? Mr McGINTY: Told whom? Ms Sue Walker: The 70 prison officers. Mr McGINTY: The next lot? Ms Sue Walker: The 70 prison officers. Mr McGINTY: Of course not. An assessment will need to be made next year about the number of prison officers who will be required in the light of the prison population at that time. Why on earth would the Government tell people that something will happen to them next year when we do not know the basis upon which that decision will be made? That might have been the way in which the member for Nedlands wanted to run the show, but we will employ the appropriate number of prison officers for the prison population. There has been a dramatic fall of about 1 000 people in the state prison population. The Government will not maintain the same number of prison officers that was employed to look after 3 000 prisoners - Ms Sue Walker: Is that figure accurate? The SPEAKER: Order, member for Nedlands! Mr McGINTY: I ask the member for Nedlands to zip it. The Government will not maintain prison officers at the level needed to look after 3 000 prisoners when there are only 2 000 in the government prison system. That is crystal clear. Mr Birney: Do you believe that the new DNA legislation will rapidly fill that hole in prison numbers? Mr McGINTY: It will have a significant impact. That is one reason the Government will need to review the next batch of 70 prison officers who are employed on three-year contracts. We will need to consider the impact of the DNA legislation when the Liberal Party eventually passes it through the Legislative Council and gets on with it. Several members interjected. Mr McGINTY: I am pleased to hear that. The member is obviously more up-to-date than I am on that matter. When that legislation comes into effect, I believe that it will have a significant impact on the clear-up rate and will ensure that people who should be in prison for committing serious offences are in prison. That impact will need to be offset against the reduction in the prison population that will occur as a result of the sentencing legislation that the Government will introduce next month. At the moment, the Prison Officers Union, with which I have regular dialogue, wants to maintain staffing levels to cover 3 000 prisoners when there are only 2 000 prisoners in the system. It is irresponsible for anyone to suggest that that is the appropriate level of staffing. The Government is reducing the prison population in this State. At the moment, Western Australia imprisons its citizens at a far higher rate than anywhere else in the country. The previous Government ran the most expensive prison system in Australia as well. All those factors are fluid. They will all have a significant impact. We must take those matters into account. The Government will employ in good jobs the number of prison officers that is needed to run the system. We will not artificially create employment for prison officers who are not needed. The previous Government found that those officers were not needed when it employed them on short-term contracts in the first place. Mr Birney: Are you proud of the fact that the prison population has dramatically reduced under the Labor Party? Mr McGINTY: The yardstick used by members opposite to measure the success of legislation was how many citizens it locked up. I regard that as an absolute admission of failure. No other State or Territory in Australia locks up minor offenders in the numbers or way they are locked up in Western Australia. Those people are more effectively punished outside the prisons. I am pleased that we are getting back to the norm. This Government treats the citizens of this State in a more sensible way. The economic rationalists opposite should consider that it costs $70 000 to keep one prisoner in prison for a year. That is taxpayers’ money that could be spent on schools, hospitals or a raft of other services. The Opposition wants the Government to spend precious dollars on locking up people who do not need to be locked up, because the nature of their offending is minor and they are not punished by imprisonment anywhere else in Australia. That economic irresponsibility on the part of the previous Government is being corrected by this Government. The SPEAKER: Order! Members who are not involved with the next item of business should carry on their conversations outside.
Mr McGINTY: The member for Nedlands should listen. She will be better informed if she does. Ms Sue Walker interjected. Mr McGINTY: The member will be better informed, because she is obviously not aware of the background to this matter. It is important that she understand it. Ms Sue Walker: You cannot tell me how many prisoners are in the prison system. Mr McGINTY: Yes, I can. Ms Sue Walker: No, you can’t. Mr McGINTY: I have already provided that information. The number varies on a daily, or even an hourly, basis. The member for Nedlands will discover that as she gets a bit more experience in dealing with these matters. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER: Members! Mr McGINTY: As those contracts were expiring, contracts were also expiring for the second batch of 70 contract prison officers who were engaged by the previous Government on a short-term basis to deal with the peak in the prison population. This Government has given those prison officers advance notice that approximately 20 of those 70 officers will be kept, and that the rest will be surplus to requirements. The three-year contracts of a further 70 prison officers will terminate next year. Ms Sue Walker: Have you told them that they have lost their jobs? Mr McGINTY: Told whom? Ms Sue Walker: The 70 prison officers. Mr McGINTY: The next lot? Ms Sue Walker: The 70 prison officers. Mr McGINTY: Of course not. An assessment will need to be made next year about the number of prison officers who will be required in the light of the prison population at that time. Why on earth would the Government tell people that something will happen to them next year when we do not know the basis upon which that decision will be made? That might have been the way in which the member for Nedlands wanted to run the show, but we will employ the appropriate number of prison officers for the prison population. There has been a dramatic fall of about 1 000 people in the state prison population. The Government will not maintain the same number of prison officers that was employed to look after 3 000 prisoners - Ms Sue Walker: Is that figure accurate? The SPEAKER: Order, member for Nedlands! Mr McGINTY: I ask the member for Nedlands to zip it. The Government will not maintain prison officers at the level needed to look after 3 000 prisoners when there are only 2 000 in the government prison system. That is crystal clear. Mr Birney: Do you believe that the new DNA legislation will rapidly fill that hole in prison numbers? Mr McGINTY: It will have a significant impact. That is one reason the Government will need to review the next batch of 70 prison officers who are employed on three-year contracts. We will need to consider the impact of the DNA legislation when the Liberal Party eventually passes it through the Legislative Council and gets on with it. Several members interjected. Mr McGINTY: I am pleased to hear that. The member is obviously more up-to-date than I am on that matter. When that legislation comes into effect, I believe that it will have a significant impact on the clear-up rate and will ensure that people who should be in prison for committing serious offences are in prison. That impact will need to be offset against the reduction in the prison population that will occur as a result of the sentencing legislation that the Government will introduce next month. At the moment, the Prison Officers Union, with which I have regular dialogue, wants to maintain staffing levels to cover 3 000 prisoners when there are only 2 000 prisoners in the system. It is irresponsible for anyone to suggest that that is the appropriate level of staffing. The Government is reducing the prison population in this State. At the moment, Western Australia imprisons its citizens at a far higher rate than anywhere else in the country. The previous Government ran the most expensive prison system in Australia as well. All those factors are fluid. They will all have a significant impact. We must take those matters into account. The Government will employ in good jobs the number of prison officers that is needed to run the system. We will not artificially create employment for prison officers who are not needed. The previous Government found that those officers were not needed when it employed them on short-term contracts in the first place. Mr Birney: Are you proud of the fact that the prison population has dramatically reduced under the Labor Party? Mr McGINTY: The yardstick used by members opposite to measure the success of legislation was how many citizens it locked up. I regard that as an absolute admission of failure. No other State or Territory in Australia locks up minor offenders in the numbers or way they are locked up in Western Australia. Those people are more effectively punished outside the prisons. I am pleased that we are getting back to the norm. This Government treats the citizens of this State in a more sensible way. The economic rationalists opposite should consider that it costs $70 000 to keep one prisoner in prison for a year. That is taxpayers’ money that could be spent on schools, hospitals or a raft of other services. The Opposition wants the Government to spend precious dollars on locking up people who do not need to be locked up, because the nature of their offending is minor and they are not punished by imprisonment anywhere else in Australia. That economic irresponsibility on the part of the previous Government is being corrected by this Government. The SPEAKER: Order! Members who are not involved with the next item of business should carry on their conversations outside.
Ms Sue Walker interjected. Mr McGINTY: The member will be better informed, because she is obviously not aware of the background to this matter. It is important that she understand it. Ms Sue Walker: You cannot tell me how many prisoners are in the prison system. Mr McGINTY: Yes, I can. Ms Sue Walker: No, you can’t. Mr McGINTY: I have already provided that information. The number varies on a daily, or even an hourly, basis. The member for Nedlands will discover that as she gets a bit more experience in dealing with these matters. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER: Members! Mr McGINTY: As those contracts were expiring, contracts were also expiring for the second batch of 70 contract prison officers who were engaged by the previous Government on a short-term basis to deal with the peak in the prison population. This Government has given those prison officers advance notice that approximately 20 of those 70 officers will be kept, and that the rest will be surplus to requirements. The three-year contracts of a further 70 prison officers will terminate next year. Ms Sue Walker: Have you told them that they have lost their jobs? Mr McGINTY: Told whom? Ms Sue Walker: The 70 prison officers. Mr McGINTY: The next lot? Ms Sue Walker: The 70 prison officers. Mr McGINTY: Of course not. An assessment will need to be made next year about the number of prison officers who will be required in the light of the prison population at that time. Why on earth would the Government tell people that something will happen to them next year when we do not know the basis upon which that decision will be made? That might have been the way in which the member for Nedlands wanted to run the show, but we will employ the appropriate number of prison officers for the prison population. There has been a dramatic fall of about 1 000 people in the state prison population. The Government will not maintain the same number of prison officers that was employed to look after 3 000 prisoners - Ms Sue Walker: Is that figure accurate? The SPEAKER: Order, member for Nedlands! Mr McGINTY: I ask the member for Nedlands to zip it. The Government will not maintain prison officers at the level needed to look after 3 000 prisoners when there are only 2 000 in the government prison system. That is crystal clear. Mr Birney: Do you believe that the new DNA legislation will rapidly fill that hole in prison numbers? Mr McGINTY: It will have a significant impact. That is one reason the Government will need to review the next batch of 70 prison officers who are employed on three-year contracts. We will need to consider the impact of the DNA legislation when the Liberal Party eventually passes it through the Legislative Council and gets on with it. Several members interjected. Mr McGINTY: I am pleased to hear that. The member is obviously more up-to-date than I am on that matter. When that legislation comes into effect, I believe that it will have a significant impact on the clear-up rate and will ensure that people who should be in prison for committing serious offences are in prison. That impact will need to be offset against the reduction in the prison population that will occur as a result of the sentencing legislation that the Government will introduce next month. At the moment, the Prison Officers Union, with which I have regular dialogue, wants to maintain staffing levels to cover 3 000 prisoners when there are only 2 000 prisoners in the system. It is irresponsible for anyone to suggest that that is the appropriate level of staffing. The Government is reducing the prison population in this State. At the moment, Western Australia imprisons its citizens at a far higher rate than anywhere else in the country. The previous Government ran the most expensive prison system in Australia as well. All those factors are fluid. They will all have a significant impact. We must take those matters into account. The Government will employ in good jobs the number of prison officers that is needed to run the system. We will not artificially create employment for prison officers who are not needed. The previous Government found that those officers were not needed when it employed them on short-term contracts in the first place. Mr Birney: Are you proud of the fact that the prison population has dramatically reduced under the Labor Party? Mr McGINTY: The yardstick used by members opposite to measure the success of legislation was how many citizens it locked up. I regard that as an absolute admission of failure. No other State or Territory in Australia locks up minor offenders in the numbers or way they are locked up in Western Australia. Those people are more effectively punished outside the prisons. I am pleased that we are getting back to the norm. This Government treats the citizens of this State in a more sensible way. The economic rationalists opposite should consider that it costs $70 000 to keep one prisoner in prison for a year. That is taxpayers’ money that could be spent on schools, hospitals or a raft of other services. The Opposition wants the Government to spend precious dollars on locking up people who do not need to be locked up, because the nature of their offending is minor and they are not punished by imprisonment anywhere else in Australia. That economic irresponsibility on the part of the previous Government is being corrected by this Government. The SPEAKER: Order! Members who are not involved with the next item of business should carry on their conversations outside.
Mr McGINTY: The member will be better informed, because she is obviously not aware of the background to this matter. It is important that she understand it. Ms Sue Walker: You cannot tell me how many prisoners are in the prison system. Mr McGINTY: Yes, I can. Ms Sue Walker: No, you can’t. Mr McGINTY: I have already provided that information. The number varies on a daily, or even an hourly, basis. The member for Nedlands will discover that as she gets a bit more experience in dealing with these matters. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER: Members! Mr McGINTY: As those contracts were expiring, contracts were also expiring for the second batch of 70 contract prison officers who were engaged by the previous Government on a short-term basis to deal with the peak in the prison population. This Government has given those prison officers advance notice that approximately 20 of those 70 officers will be kept, and that the rest will be surplus to requirements. The three-year contracts of a further 70 prison officers will terminate next year. Ms Sue Walker: Have you told them that they have lost their jobs? Mr McGINTY: Told whom? Ms Sue Walker: The 70 prison officers. Mr McGINTY: The next lot? Ms Sue Walker: The 70 prison officers. Mr McGINTY: Of course not. An assessment will need to be made next year about the number of prison officers who will be required in the light of the prison population at that time. Why on earth would the Government tell people that something will happen to them next year when we do not know the basis upon which that decision will be made? That might have been the way in which the member for Nedlands wanted to run the show, but we will employ the appropriate number of prison officers for the prison population. There has been a dramatic fall of about 1 000 people in the state prison population. The Government will not maintain the same number of prison officers that was employed to look after 3 000 prisoners - Ms Sue Walker: Is that figure accurate? The SPEAKER: Order, member for Nedlands! Mr McGINTY: I ask the member for Nedlands to zip it. The Government will not maintain prison officers at the level needed to look after 3 000 prisoners when there are only 2 000 in the government prison system. That is crystal clear. Mr Birney: Do you believe that the new DNA legislation will rapidly fill that hole in prison numbers? Mr McGINTY: It will have a significant impact. That is one reason the Government will need to review the next batch of 70 prison officers who are employed on three-year contracts. We will need to consider the impact of the DNA legislation when the Liberal Party eventually passes it through the Legislative Council and gets on with it. Several members interjected. Mr McGINTY: I am pleased to hear that. The member is obviously more up-to-date than I am on that matter. When that legislation comes into effect, I believe that it will have a significant impact on the clear-up rate and will ensure that people who should be in prison for committing serious offences are in prison. That impact will need to be offset against the reduction in the prison population that will occur as a result of the sentencing legislation that the Government will introduce next month. At the moment, the Prison Officers Union, with which I have regular dialogue, wants to maintain staffing levels to cover 3 000 prisoners when there are only 2 000 prisoners in the system. It is irresponsible for anyone to suggest that that is the appropriate level of staffing. The Government is reducing the prison population in this State. At the moment, Western Australia imprisons its citizens at a far higher rate than anywhere else in the country. The previous Government ran the most expensive prison system in Australia as well. All those factors are fluid. They will all have a significant impact. We must take those matters into account. The Government will employ in good jobs the number of prison officers that is needed to run the system. We will not artificially create employment for prison officers who are not needed. The previous Government found that those officers were not needed when it employed them on short-term contracts in the first place. Mr Birney: Are you proud of the fact that the prison population has dramatically reduced under the Labor Party? Mr McGINTY: The yardstick used by members opposite to measure the success of legislation was how many citizens it locked up. I regard that as an absolute admission of failure. No other State or Territory in Australia locks up minor offenders in the numbers or way they are locked up in Western Australia. Those people are more effectively punished outside the prisons. I am pleased that we are getting back to the norm. This Government treats the citizens of this State in a more sensible way. The economic rationalists opposite should consider that it costs $70 000 to keep one prisoner in prison for a year. That is taxpayers’ money that could be spent on schools, hospitals or a raft of other services. The Opposition wants the Government to spend precious dollars on locking up people who do not need to be locked up, because the nature of their offending is minor and they are not punished by imprisonment anywhere else in Australia. That economic irresponsibility on the part of the previous Government is being corrected by this Government. The SPEAKER: Order! Members who are not involved with the next item of business should carry on their conversations outside.
Ms Sue Walker: You cannot tell me how many prisoners are in the prison system. Mr McGINTY: Yes, I can. Ms Sue Walker: No, you can’t. Mr McGINTY: I have already provided that information. The number varies on a daily, or even an hourly, basis. The member for Nedlands will discover that as she gets a bit more experience in dealing with these matters. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER: Members! Mr McGINTY: As those contracts were expiring, contracts were also expiring for the second batch of 70 contract prison officers who were engaged by the previous Government on a short-term basis to deal with the peak in the prison population. This Government has given those prison officers advance notice that approximately 20 of those 70 officers will be kept, and that the rest will be surplus to requirements. The three-year contracts of a further 70 prison officers will terminate next year. Ms Sue Walker: Have you told them that they have lost their jobs? Mr McGINTY: Told whom? Ms Sue Walker: The 70 prison officers. Mr McGINTY: The next lot? Ms Sue Walker: The 70 prison officers. Mr McGINTY: Of course not. An assessment will need to be made next year about the number of prison officers who will be required in the light of the prison population at that time. Why on earth would the Government tell people that something will happen to them next year when we do not know the basis upon which that decision will be made? That might have been the way in which the member for Nedlands wanted to run the show, but we will employ the appropriate number of prison officers for the prison population. There has been a dramatic fall of about 1 000 people in the state prison population. The Government will not maintain the same number of prison officers that was employed to look after 3 000 prisoners - Ms Sue Walker: Is that figure accurate? The SPEAKER: Order, member for Nedlands! Mr McGINTY: I ask the member for Nedlands to zip it. The Government will not maintain prison officers at the level needed to look after 3 000 prisoners when there are only 2 000 in the government prison system. That is crystal clear. Mr Birney: Do you believe that the new DNA legislation will rapidly fill that hole in prison numbers? Mr McGINTY: It will have a significant impact. That is one reason the Government will need to review the next batch of 70 prison officers who are employed on three-year contracts. We will need to consider the impact of the DNA legislation when the Liberal Party eventually passes it through the Legislative Council and gets on with it. Several members interjected. Mr McGINTY: I am pleased to hear that. The member is obviously more up-to-date than I am on that matter. When that legislation comes into effect, I believe that it will have a significant impact on the clear-up rate and will ensure that people who should be in prison for committing serious offences are in prison. That impact will need to be offset against the reduction in the prison population that will occur as a result of the sentencing legislation that the Government will introduce next month. At the moment, the Prison Officers Union, with which I have regular dialogue, wants to maintain staffing levels to cover 3 000 prisoners when there are only 2 000 prisoners in the system. It is irresponsible for anyone to suggest that that is the appropriate level of staffing. The Government is reducing the prison population in this State. At the moment, Western Australia imprisons its citizens at a far higher rate than anywhere else in the country. The previous Government ran the most expensive prison system in Australia as well. All those factors are fluid. They will all have a significant impact. We must take those matters into account. The Government will employ in good jobs the number of prison officers that is needed to run the system. We will not artificially create employment for prison officers who are not needed. The previous Government found that those officers were not needed when it employed them on short-term contracts in the first place. Mr Birney: Are you proud of the fact that the prison population has dramatically reduced under the Labor Party? Mr McGINTY: The yardstick used by members opposite to measure the success of legislation was how many citizens it locked up. I regard that as an absolute admission of failure. No other State or Territory in Australia locks up minor offenders in the numbers or way they are locked up in Western Australia. Those people are more effectively punished outside the prisons. I am pleased that we are getting back to the norm. This Government treats the citizens of this State in a more sensible way. The economic rationalists opposite should consider that it costs $70 000 to keep one prisoner in prison for a year. That is taxpayers’ money that could be spent on schools, hospitals or a raft of other services. The Opposition wants the Government to spend precious dollars on locking up people who do not need to be locked up, because the nature of their offending is minor and they are not punished by imprisonment anywhere else in Australia. That economic irresponsibility on the part of the previous Government is being corrected by this Government. The SPEAKER: Order! Members who are not involved with the next item of business should carry on their conversations outside.
Mr McGINTY: Yes, I can. Ms Sue Walker: No, you can’t. Mr McGINTY: I have already provided that information. The number varies on a daily, or even an hourly, basis. The member for Nedlands will discover that as she gets a bit more experience in dealing with these matters. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER: Members! Mr McGINTY: As those contracts were expiring, contracts were also expiring for the second batch of 70 contract prison officers who were engaged by the previous Government on a short-term basis to deal with the peak in the prison population. This Government has given those prison officers advance notice that approximately 20 of those 70 officers will be kept, and that the rest will be surplus to requirements. The three-year contracts of a further 70 prison officers will terminate next year. Ms Sue Walker: Have you told them that they have lost their jobs? Mr McGINTY: Told whom? Ms Sue Walker: The 70 prison officers. Mr McGINTY: The next lot? Ms Sue Walker: The 70 prison officers. Mr McGINTY: Of course not. An assessment will need to be made next year about the number of prison officers who will be required in the light of the prison population at that time. Why on earth would the Government tell people that something will happen to them next year when we do not know the basis upon which that decision will be made? That might have been the way in which the member for Nedlands wanted to run the show, but we will employ the appropriate number of prison officers for the prison population. There has been a dramatic fall of about 1 000 people in the state prison population. The Government will not maintain the same number of prison officers that was employed to look after 3 000 prisoners - Ms Sue Walker: Is that figure accurate? The SPEAKER: Order, member for Nedlands! Mr McGINTY: I ask the member for Nedlands to zip it. The Government will not maintain prison officers at the level needed to look after 3 000 prisoners when there are only 2 000 in the government prison system. That is crystal clear. Mr Birney: Do you believe that the new DNA legislation will rapidly fill that hole in prison numbers? Mr McGINTY: It will have a significant impact. That is one reason the Government will need to review the next batch of 70 prison officers who are employed on three-year contracts. We will need to consider the impact of the DNA legislation when the Liberal Party eventually passes it through the Legislative Council and gets on with it. Several members interjected. Mr McGINTY: I am pleased to hear that. The member is obviously more up-to-date than I am on that matter. When that legislation comes into effect, I believe that it will have a significant impact on the clear-up rate and will ensure that people who should be in prison for committing serious offences are in prison. That impact will need to be offset against the reduction in the prison population that will occur as a result of the sentencing legislation that the Government will introduce next month. At the moment, the Prison Officers Union, with which I have regular dialogue, wants to maintain staffing levels to cover 3 000 prisoners when there are only 2 000 prisoners in the system. It is irresponsible for anyone to suggest that that is the appropriate level of staffing. The Government is reducing the prison population in this State. At the moment, Western Australia imprisons its citizens at a far higher rate than anywhere else in the country. The previous Government ran the most expensive prison system in Australia as well. All those factors are fluid. They will all have a significant impact. We must take those matters into account. The Government will employ in good jobs the number of prison officers that is needed to run the system. We will not artificially create employment for prison officers who are not needed. The previous Government found that those officers were not needed when it employed them on short-term contracts in the first place. Mr Birney: Are you proud of the fact that the prison population has dramatically reduced under the Labor Party? Mr McGINTY: The yardstick used by members opposite to measure the success of legislation was how many citizens it locked up. I regard that as an absolute admission of failure. No other State or Territory in Australia locks up minor offenders in the numbers or way they are locked up in Western Australia. Those people are more effectively punished outside the prisons. I am pleased that we are getting back to the norm. This Government treats the citizens of this State in a more sensible way. The economic rationalists opposite should consider that it costs $70 000 to keep one prisoner in prison for a year. That is taxpayers’ money that could be spent on schools, hospitals or a raft of other services. The Opposition wants the Government to spend precious dollars on locking up people who do not need to be locked up, because the nature of their offending is minor and they are not punished by imprisonment anywhere else in Australia. That economic irresponsibility on the part of the previous Government is being corrected by this Government. The SPEAKER: Order! Members who are not involved with the next item of business should carry on their conversations outside.
Ms Sue Walker: No, you can’t. Mr McGINTY: I have already provided that information. The number varies on a daily, or even an hourly, basis. The member for Nedlands will discover that as she gets a bit more experience in dealing with these matters. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER: Members! Mr McGINTY: As those contracts were expiring, contracts were also expiring for the second batch of 70 contract prison officers who were engaged by the previous Government on a short-term basis to deal with the peak in the prison population. This Government has given those prison officers advance notice that approximately 20 of those 70 officers will be kept, and that the rest will be surplus to requirements. The three-year contracts of a further 70 prison officers will terminate next year. Ms Sue Walker: Have you told them that they have lost their jobs? Mr McGINTY: Told whom? Ms Sue Walker: The 70 prison officers. Mr McGINTY: The next lot? Ms Sue Walker: The 70 prison officers. Mr McGINTY: Of course not. An assessment will need to be made next year about the number of prison officers who will be required in the light of the prison population at that time. Why on earth would the Government tell people that something will happen to them next year when we do not know the basis upon which that decision will be made? That might have been the way in which the member for Nedlands wanted to run the show, but we will employ the appropriate number of prison officers for the prison population. There has been a dramatic fall of about 1 000 people in the state prison population. The Government will not maintain the same number of prison officers that was employed to look after 3 000 prisoners - Ms Sue Walker: Is that figure accurate? The SPEAKER: Order, member for Nedlands! Mr McGINTY: I ask the member for Nedlands to zip it. The Government will not maintain prison officers at the level needed to look after 3 000 prisoners when there are only 2 000 in the government prison system. That is crystal clear. Mr Birney: Do you believe that the new DNA legislation will rapidly fill that hole in prison numbers? Mr McGINTY: It will have a significant impact. That is one reason the Government will need to review the next batch of 70 prison officers who are employed on three-year contracts. We will need to consider the impact of the DNA legislation when the Liberal Party eventually passes it through the Legislative Council and gets on with it. Several members interjected. Mr McGINTY: I am pleased to hear that. The member is obviously more up-to-date than I am on that matter. When that legislation comes into effect, I believe that it will have a significant impact on the clear-up rate and will ensure that people who should be in prison for committing serious offences are in prison. That impact will need to be offset against the reduction in the prison population that will occur as a result of the sentencing legislation that the Government will introduce next month. At the moment, the Prison Officers Union, with which I have regular dialogue, wants to maintain staffing levels to cover 3 000 prisoners when there are only 2 000 prisoners in the system. It is irresponsible for anyone to suggest that that is the appropriate level of staffing. The Government is reducing the prison population in this State. At the moment, Western Australia imprisons its citizens at a far higher rate than anywhere else in the country. The previous Government ran the most expensive prison system in Australia as well. All those factors are fluid. They will all have a significant impact. We must take those matters into account. The Government will employ in good jobs the number of prison officers that is needed to run the system. We will not artificially create employment for prison officers who are not needed. The previous Government found that those officers were not needed when it employed them on short-term contracts in the first place. Mr Birney: Are you proud of the fact that the prison population has dramatically reduced under the Labor Party? Mr McGINTY: The yardstick used by members opposite to measure the success of legislation was how many citizens it locked up. I regard that as an absolute admission of failure. No other State or Territory in Australia locks up minor offenders in the numbers or way they are locked up in Western Australia. Those people are more effectively punished outside the prisons. I am pleased that we are getting back to the norm. This Government treats the citizens of this State in a more sensible way. The economic rationalists opposite should consider that it costs $70 000 to keep one prisoner in prison for a year. That is taxpayers’ money that could be spent on schools, hospitals or a raft of other services. The Opposition wants the Government to spend precious dollars on locking up people who do not need to be locked up, because the nature of their offending is minor and they are not punished by imprisonment anywhere else in Australia. That economic irresponsibility on the part of the previous Government is being corrected by this Government. The SPEAKER: Order! Members who are not involved with the next item of business should carry on their conversations outside.
Mr McGINTY: I have already provided that information. The number varies on a daily, or even an hourly, basis. The member for Nedlands will discover that as she gets a bit more experience in dealing with these matters. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER: Members! Mr McGINTY: As those contracts were expiring, contracts were also expiring for the second batch of 70 contract prison officers who were engaged by the previous Government on a short-term basis to deal with the peak in the prison population. This Government has given those prison officers advance notice that approximately 20 of those 70 officers will be kept, and that the rest will be surplus to requirements. The three-year contracts of a further 70 prison officers will terminate next year. Ms Sue Walker: Have you told them that they have lost their jobs? Mr McGINTY: Told whom? Ms Sue Walker: The 70 prison officers. Mr McGINTY: The next lot? Ms Sue Walker: The 70 prison officers. Mr McGINTY: Of course not. An assessment will need to be made next year about the number of prison officers who will be required in the light of the prison population at that time. Why on earth would the Government tell people that something will happen to them next year when we do not know the basis upon which that decision will be made? That might have been the way in which the member for Nedlands wanted to run the show, but we will employ the appropriate number of prison officers for the prison population. There has been a dramatic fall of about 1 000 people in the state prison population. The Government will not maintain the same number of prison officers that was employed to look after 3 000 prisoners - Ms Sue Walker: Is that figure accurate? The SPEAKER: Order, member for Nedlands! Mr McGINTY: I ask the member for Nedlands to zip it. The Government will not maintain prison officers at the level needed to look after 3 000 prisoners when there are only 2 000 in the government prison system. That is crystal clear. Mr Birney: Do you believe that the new DNA legislation will rapidly fill that hole in prison numbers? Mr McGINTY: It will have a significant impact. That is one reason the Government will need to review the next batch of 70 prison officers who are employed on three-year contracts. We will need to consider the impact of the DNA legislation when the Liberal Party eventually passes it through the Legislative Council and gets on with it. Several members interjected. Mr McGINTY: I am pleased to hear that. The member is obviously more up-to-date than I am on that matter. When that legislation comes into effect, I believe that it will have a significant impact on the clear-up rate and will ensure that people who should be in prison for committing serious offences are in prison. That impact will need to be offset against the reduction in the prison population that will occur as a result of the sentencing legislation that the Government will introduce next month. At the moment, the Prison Officers Union, with which I have regular dialogue, wants to maintain staffing levels to cover 3 000 prisoners when there are only 2 000 prisoners in the system. It is irresponsible for anyone to suggest that that is the appropriate level of staffing. The Government is reducing the prison population in this State. At the moment, Western Australia imprisons its citizens at a far higher rate than anywhere else in the country. The previous Government ran the most expensive prison system in Australia as well. All those factors are fluid. They will all have a significant impact. We must take those matters into account. The Government will employ in good jobs the number of prison officers that is needed to run the system. We will not artificially create employment for prison officers who are not needed. The previous Government found that those officers were not needed when it employed them on short-term contracts in the first place. Mr Birney: Are you proud of the fact that the prison population has dramatically reduced under the Labor Party? Mr McGINTY: The yardstick used by members opposite to measure the success of legislation was how many citizens it locked up. I regard that as an absolute admission of failure. No other State or Territory in Australia locks up minor offenders in the numbers or way they are locked up in Western Australia. Those people are more effectively punished outside the prisons. I am pleased that we are getting back to the norm. This Government treats the citizens of this State in a more sensible way. The economic rationalists opposite should consider that it costs $70 000 to keep one prisoner in prison for a year. That is taxpayers’ money that could be spent on schools, hospitals or a raft of other services. The Opposition wants the Government to spend precious dollars on locking up people who do not need to be locked up, because the nature of their offending is minor and they are not punished by imprisonment anywhere else in Australia. That economic irresponsibility on the part of the previous Government is being corrected by this Government. The SPEAKER: Order! Members who are not involved with the next item of business should carry on their conversations outside.
Several members interjected. The SPEAKER: Members! Mr McGINTY: As those contracts were expiring, contracts were also expiring for the second batch of 70 contract prison officers who were engaged by the previous Government on a short-term basis to deal with the peak in the prison population. This Government has given those prison officers advance notice that approximately 20 of those 70 officers will be kept, and that the rest will be surplus to requirements. The three-year contracts of a further 70 prison officers will terminate next year. Ms Sue Walker: Have you told them that they have lost their jobs? Mr McGINTY: Told whom? Ms Sue Walker: The 70 prison officers. Mr McGINTY: The next lot? Ms Sue Walker: The 70 prison officers. Mr McGINTY: Of course not. An assessment will need to be made next year about the number of prison officers who will be required in the light of the prison population at that time. Why on earth would the Government tell people that something will happen to them next year when we do not know the basis upon which that decision will be made? That might have been the way in which the member for Nedlands wanted to run the show, but we will employ the appropriate number of prison officers for the prison population. There has been a dramatic fall of about 1 000 people in the state prison population. The Government will not maintain the same number of prison officers that was employed to look after 3 000 prisoners - Ms Sue Walker: Is that figure accurate? The SPEAKER: Order, member for Nedlands! Mr McGINTY: I ask the member for Nedlands to zip it. The Government will not maintain prison officers at the level needed to look after 3 000 prisoners when there are only 2 000 in the government prison system. That is crystal clear. Mr Birney: Do you believe that the new DNA legislation will rapidly fill that hole in prison numbers? Mr McGINTY: It will have a significant impact. That is one reason the Government will need to review the next batch of 70 prison officers who are employed on three-year contracts. We will need to consider the impact of the DNA legislation when the Liberal Party eventually passes it through the Legislative Council and gets on with it. Several members interjected. Mr McGINTY: I am pleased to hear that. The member is obviously more up-to-date than I am on that matter. When that legislation comes into effect, I believe that it will have a significant impact on the clear-up rate and will ensure that people who should be in prison for committing serious offences are in prison. That impact will need to be offset against the reduction in the prison population that will occur as a result of the sentencing legislation that the Government will introduce next month. At the moment, the Prison Officers Union, with which I have regular dialogue, wants to maintain staffing levels to cover 3 000 prisoners when there are only 2 000 prisoners in the system. It is irresponsible for anyone to suggest that that is the appropriate level of staffing. The Government is reducing the prison population in this State. At the moment, Western Australia imprisons its citizens at a far higher rate than anywhere else in the country. The previous Government ran the most expensive prison system in Australia as well. All those factors are fluid. They will all have a significant impact. We must take those matters into account. The Government will employ in good jobs the number of prison officers that is needed to run the system. We will not artificially create employment for prison officers who are not needed. The previous Government found that those officers were not needed when it employed them on short-term contracts in the first place. Mr Birney: Are you proud of the fact that the prison population has dramatically reduced under the Labor Party? Mr McGINTY: The yardstick used by members opposite to measure the success of legislation was how many citizens it locked up. I regard that as an absolute admission of failure. No other State or Territory in Australia locks up minor offenders in the numbers or way they are locked up in Western Australia. Those people are more effectively punished outside the prisons. I am pleased that we are getting back to the norm. This Government treats the citizens of this State in a more sensible way. The economic rationalists opposite should consider that it costs $70 000 to keep one prisoner in prison for a year. That is taxpayers’ money that could be spent on schools, hospitals or a raft of other services. The Opposition wants the Government to spend precious dollars on locking up people who do not need to be locked up, because the nature of their offending is minor and they are not punished by imprisonment anywhere else in Australia. That economic irresponsibility on the part of the previous Government is being corrected by this Government. The SPEAKER: Order! Members who are not involved with the next item of business should carry on their conversations outside.
The SPEAKER: Members! Mr McGINTY: As those contracts were expiring, contracts were also expiring for the second batch of 70 contract prison officers who were engaged by the previous Government on a short-term basis to deal with the peak in the prison population. This Government has given those prison officers advance notice that approximately 20 of those 70 officers will be kept, and that the rest will be surplus to requirements. The three-year contracts of a further 70 prison officers will terminate next year. Ms Sue Walker: Have you told them that they have lost their jobs? Mr McGINTY: Told whom? Ms Sue Walker: The 70 prison officers. Mr McGINTY: The next lot? Ms Sue Walker: The 70 prison officers. Mr McGINTY: Of course not. An assessment will need to be made next year about the number of prison officers who will be required in the light of the prison population at that time. Why on earth would the Government tell people that something will happen to them next year when we do not know the basis upon which that decision will be made? That might have been the way in which the member for Nedlands wanted to run the show, but we will employ the appropriate number of prison officers for the prison population. There has been a dramatic fall of about 1 000 people in the state prison population. The Government will not maintain the same number of prison officers that was employed to look after 3 000 prisoners - Ms Sue Walker: Is that figure accurate? The SPEAKER: Order, member for Nedlands! Mr McGINTY: I ask the member for Nedlands to zip it. The Government will not maintain prison officers at the level needed to look after 3 000 prisoners when there are only 2 000 in the government prison system. That is crystal clear. Mr Birney: Do you believe that the new DNA legislation will rapidly fill that hole in prison numbers? Mr McGINTY: It will have a significant impact. That is one reason the Government will need to review the next batch of 70 prison officers who are employed on three-year contracts. We will need to consider the impact of the DNA legislation when the Liberal Party eventually passes it through the Legislative Council and gets on with it. Several members interjected. Mr McGINTY: I am pleased to hear that. The member is obviously more up-to-date than I am on that matter. When that legislation comes into effect, I believe that it will have a significant impact on the clear-up rate and will ensure that people who should be in prison for committing serious offences are in prison. That impact will need to be offset against the reduction in the prison population that will occur as a result of the sentencing legislation that the Government will introduce next month. At the moment, the Prison Officers Union, with which I have regular dialogue, wants to maintain staffing levels to cover 3 000 prisoners when there are only 2 000 prisoners in the system. It is irresponsible for anyone to suggest that that is the appropriate level of staffing. The Government is reducing the prison population in this State. At the moment, Western Australia imprisons its citizens at a far higher rate than anywhere else in the country. The previous Government ran the most expensive prison system in Australia as well. All those factors are fluid. They will all have a significant impact. We must take those matters into account. The Government will employ in good jobs the number of prison officers that is needed to run the system. We will not artificially create employment for prison officers who are not needed. The previous Government found that those officers were not needed when it employed them on short-term contracts in the first place. Mr Birney: Are you proud of the fact that the prison population has dramatically reduced under the Labor Party? Mr McGINTY: The yardstick used by members opposite to measure the success of legislation was how many citizens it locked up. I regard that as an absolute admission of failure. No other State or Territory in Australia locks up minor offenders in the numbers or way they are locked up in Western Australia. Those people are more effectively punished outside the prisons. I am pleased that we are getting back to the norm. This Government treats the citizens of this State in a more sensible way. The economic rationalists opposite should consider that it costs $70 000 to keep one prisoner in prison for a year. That is taxpayers’ money that could be spent on schools, hospitals or a raft of other services. The Opposition wants the Government to spend precious dollars on locking up people who do not need to be locked up, because the nature of their offending is minor and they are not punished by imprisonment anywhere else in Australia. That economic irresponsibility on the part of the previous Government is being corrected by this Government. The SPEAKER: Order! Members who are not involved with the next item of business should carry on their conversations outside.
Mr McGINTY: As those contracts were expiring, contracts were also expiring for the second batch of 70 contract prison officers who were engaged by the previous Government on a short-term basis to deal with the peak in the prison population. This Government has given those prison officers advance notice that approximately 20 of those 70 officers will be kept, and that the rest will be surplus to requirements. The three-year contracts of a further 70 prison officers will terminate next year. Ms Sue Walker: Have you told them that they have lost their jobs? Mr McGINTY: Told whom? Ms Sue Walker: The 70 prison officers. Mr McGINTY: The next lot? Ms Sue Walker: The 70 prison officers. Mr McGINTY: Of course not. An assessment will need to be made next year about the number of prison officers who will be required in the light of the prison population at that time. Why on earth would the Government tell people that something will happen to them next year when we do not know the basis upon which that decision will be made? That might have been the way in which the member for Nedlands wanted to run the show, but we will employ the appropriate number of prison officers for the prison population. There has been a dramatic fall of about 1 000 people in the state prison population. The Government will not maintain the same number of prison officers that was employed to look after 3 000 prisoners - Ms Sue Walker: Is that figure accurate? The SPEAKER: Order, member for Nedlands! Mr McGINTY: I ask the member for Nedlands to zip it. The Government will not maintain prison officers at the level needed to look after 3 000 prisoners when there are only 2 000 in the government prison system. That is crystal clear. Mr Birney: Do you believe that the new DNA legislation will rapidly fill that hole in prison numbers? Mr McGINTY: It will have a significant impact. That is one reason the Government will need to review the next batch of 70 prison officers who are employed on three-year contracts. We will need to consider the impact of the DNA legislation when the Liberal Party eventually passes it through the Legislative Council and gets on with it. Several members interjected. Mr McGINTY: I am pleased to hear that. The member is obviously more up-to-date than I am on that matter. When that legislation comes into effect, I believe that it will have a significant impact on the clear-up rate and will ensure that people who should be in prison for committing serious offences are in prison. That impact will need to be offset against the reduction in the prison population that will occur as a result of the sentencing legislation that the Government will introduce next month. At the moment, the Prison Officers Union, with which I have regular dialogue, wants to maintain staffing levels to cover 3 000 prisoners when there are only 2 000 prisoners in the system. It is irresponsible for anyone to suggest that that is the appropriate level of staffing. The Government is reducing the prison population in this State. At the moment, Western Australia imprisons its citizens at a far higher rate than anywhere else in the country. The previous Government ran the most expensive prison system in Australia as well. All those factors are fluid. They will all have a significant impact. We must take those matters into account. The Government will employ in good jobs the number of prison officers that is needed to run the system. We will not artificially create employment for prison officers who are not needed. The previous Government found that those officers were not needed when it employed them on short-term contracts in the first place. Mr Birney: Are you proud of the fact that the prison population has dramatically reduced under the Labor Party? Mr McGINTY: The yardstick used by members opposite to measure the success of legislation was how many citizens it locked up. I regard that as an absolute admission of failure. No other State or Territory in Australia locks up minor offenders in the numbers or way they are locked up in Western Australia. Those people are more effectively punished outside the prisons. I am pleased that we are getting back to the norm. This Government treats the citizens of this State in a more sensible way. The economic rationalists opposite should consider that it costs $70 000 to keep one prisoner in prison for a year. That is taxpayers’ money that could be spent on schools, hospitals or a raft of other services. The Opposition wants the Government to spend precious dollars on locking up people who do not need to be locked up, because the nature of their offending is minor and they are not punished by imprisonment anywhere else in Australia. That economic irresponsibility on the part of the previous Government is being corrected by this Government. The SPEAKER: Order! Members who are not involved with the next item of business should carry on their conversations outside.
Ms Sue Walker: Have you told them that they have lost their jobs? Mr McGINTY: Told whom? Ms Sue Walker: The 70 prison officers. Mr McGINTY: The next lot? Ms Sue Walker: The 70 prison officers. Mr McGINTY: Of course not. An assessment will need to be made next year about the number of prison officers who will be required in the light of the prison population at that time. Why on earth would the Government tell people that something will happen to them next year when we do not know the basis upon which that decision will be made? That might have been the way in which the member for Nedlands wanted to run the show, but we will employ the appropriate number of prison officers for the prison population. There has been a dramatic fall of about 1 000 people in the state prison population. The Government will not maintain the same number of prison officers that was employed to look after 3 000 prisoners - Ms Sue Walker: Is that figure accurate? The SPEAKER: Order, member for Nedlands! Mr McGINTY: I ask the member for Nedlands to zip it. The Government will not maintain prison officers at the level needed to look after 3 000 prisoners when there are only 2 000 in the government prison system. That is crystal clear. Mr Birney: Do you believe that the new DNA legislation will rapidly fill that hole in prison numbers? Mr McGINTY: It will have a significant impact. That is one reason the Government will need to review the next batch of 70 prison officers who are employed on three-year contracts. We will need to consider the impact of the DNA legislation when the Liberal Party eventually passes it through the Legislative Council and gets on with it. Several members interjected. Mr McGINTY: I am pleased to hear that. The member is obviously more up-to-date than I am on that matter. When that legislation comes into effect, I believe that it will have a significant impact on the clear-up rate and will ensure that people who should be in prison for committing serious offences are in prison. That impact will need to be offset against the reduction in the prison population that will occur as a result of the sentencing legislation that the Government will introduce next month. At the moment, the Prison Officers Union, with which I have regular dialogue, wants to maintain staffing levels to cover 3 000 prisoners when there are only 2 000 prisoners in the system. It is irresponsible for anyone to suggest that that is the appropriate level of staffing. The Government is reducing the prison population in this State. At the moment, Western Australia imprisons its citizens at a far higher rate than anywhere else in the country. The previous Government ran the most expensive prison system in Australia as well. All those factors are fluid. They will all have a significant impact. We must take those matters into account. The Government will employ in good jobs the number of prison officers that is needed to run the system. We will not artificially create employment for prison officers who are not needed. The previous Government found that those officers were not needed when it employed them on short-term contracts in the first place. Mr Birney: Are you proud of the fact that the prison population has dramatically reduced under the Labor Party? Mr McGINTY: The yardstick used by members opposite to measure the success of legislation was how many citizens it locked up. I regard that as an absolute admission of failure. No other State or Territory in Australia locks up minor offenders in the numbers or way they are locked up in Western Australia. Those people are more effectively punished outside the prisons. I am pleased that we are getting back to the norm. This Government treats the citizens of this State in a more sensible way. The economic rationalists opposite should consider that it costs $70 000 to keep one prisoner in prison for a year. That is taxpayers’ money that could be spent on schools, hospitals or a raft of other services. The Opposition wants the Government to spend precious dollars on locking up people who do not need to be locked up, because the nature of their offending is minor and they are not punished by imprisonment anywhere else in Australia. That economic irresponsibility on the part of the previous Government is being corrected by this Government. The SPEAKER: Order! Members who are not involved with the next item of business should carry on their conversations outside.
Mr McGINTY: Told whom? Ms Sue Walker: The 70 prison officers. Mr McGINTY: The next lot? Ms Sue Walker: The 70 prison officers. Mr McGINTY: Of course not. An assessment will need to be made next year about the number of prison officers who will be required in the light of the prison population at that time. Why on earth would the Government tell people that something will happen to them next year when we do not know the basis upon which that decision will be made? That might have been the way in which the member for Nedlands wanted to run the show, but we will employ the appropriate number of prison officers for the prison population. There has been a dramatic fall of about 1 000 people in the state prison population. The Government will not maintain the same number of prison officers that was employed to look after 3 000 prisoners - Ms Sue Walker: Is that figure accurate? The SPEAKER: Order, member for Nedlands! Mr McGINTY: I ask the member for Nedlands to zip it. The Government will not maintain prison officers at the level needed to look after 3 000 prisoners when there are only 2 000 in the government prison system. That is crystal clear. Mr Birney: Do you believe that the new DNA legislation will rapidly fill that hole in prison numbers? Mr McGINTY: It will have a significant impact. That is one reason the Government will need to review the next batch of 70 prison officers who are employed on three-year contracts. We will need to consider the impact of the DNA legislation when the Liberal Party eventually passes it through the Legislative Council and gets on with it. Several members interjected. Mr McGINTY: I am pleased to hear that. The member is obviously more up-to-date than I am on that matter. When that legislation comes into effect, I believe that it will have a significant impact on the clear-up rate and will ensure that people who should be in prison for committing serious offences are in prison. That impact will need to be offset against the reduction in the prison population that will occur as a result of the sentencing legislation that the Government will introduce next month. At the moment, the Prison Officers Union, with which I have regular dialogue, wants to maintain staffing levels to cover 3 000 prisoners when there are only 2 000 prisoners in the system. It is irresponsible for anyone to suggest that that is the appropriate level of staffing. The Government is reducing the prison population in this State. At the moment, Western Australia imprisons its citizens at a far higher rate than anywhere else in the country. The previous Government ran the most expensive prison system in Australia as well. All those factors are fluid. They will all have a significant impact. We must take those matters into account. The Government will employ in good jobs the number of prison officers that is needed to run the system. We will not artificially create employment for prison officers who are not needed. The previous Government found that those officers were not needed when it employed them on short-term contracts in the first place. Mr Birney: Are you proud of the fact that the prison population has dramatically reduced under the Labor Party? Mr McGINTY: The yardstick used by members opposite to measure the success of legislation was how many citizens it locked up. I regard that as an absolute admission of failure. No other State or Territory in Australia locks up minor offenders in the numbers or way they are locked up in Western Australia. Those people are more effectively punished outside the prisons. I am pleased that we are getting back to the norm. This Government treats the citizens of this State in a more sensible way. The economic rationalists opposite should consider that it costs $70 000 to keep one prisoner in prison for a year. That is taxpayers’ money that could be spent on schools, hospitals or a raft of other services. The Opposition wants the Government to spend precious dollars on locking up people who do not need to be locked up, because the nature of their offending is minor and they are not punished by imprisonment anywhere else in Australia. That economic irresponsibility on the part of the previous Government is being corrected by this Government. The SPEAKER: Order! Members who are not involved with the next item of business should carry on their conversations outside.
Ms Sue Walker: The 70 prison officers. Mr McGINTY: The next lot? Ms Sue Walker: The 70 prison officers. Mr McGINTY: Of course not. An assessment will need to be made next year about the number of prison officers who will be required in the light of the prison population at that time. Why on earth would the Government tell people that something will happen to them next year when we do not know the basis upon which that decision will be made? That might have been the way in which the member for Nedlands wanted to run the show, but we will employ the appropriate number of prison officers for the prison population. There has been a dramatic fall of about 1 000 people in the state prison population. The Government will not maintain the same number of prison officers that was employed to look after 3 000 prisoners - Ms Sue Walker: Is that figure accurate? The SPEAKER: Order, member for Nedlands! Mr McGINTY: I ask the member for Nedlands to zip it. The Government will not maintain prison officers at the level needed to look after 3 000 prisoners when there are only 2 000 in the government prison system. That is crystal clear. Mr Birney: Do you believe that the new DNA legislation will rapidly fill that hole in prison numbers? Mr McGINTY: It will have a significant impact. That is one reason the Government will need to review the next batch of 70 prison officers who are employed on three-year contracts. We will need to consider the impact of the DNA legislation when the Liberal Party eventually passes it through the Legislative Council and gets on with it. Several members interjected. Mr McGINTY: I am pleased to hear that. The member is obviously more up-to-date than I am on that matter. When that legislation comes into effect, I believe that it will have a significant impact on the clear-up rate and will ensure that people who should be in prison for committing serious offences are in prison. That impact will need to be offset against the reduction in the prison population that will occur as a result of the sentencing legislation that the Government will introduce next month. At the moment, the Prison Officers Union, with which I have regular dialogue, wants to maintain staffing levels to cover 3 000 prisoners when there are only 2 000 prisoners in the system. It is irresponsible for anyone to suggest that that is the appropriate level of staffing. The Government is reducing the prison population in this State. At the moment, Western Australia imprisons its citizens at a far higher rate than anywhere else in the country. The previous Government ran the most expensive prison system in Australia as well. All those factors are fluid. They will all have a significant impact. We must take those matters into account. The Government will employ in good jobs the number of prison officers that is needed to run the system. We will not artificially create employment for prison officers who are not needed. The previous Government found that those officers were not needed when it employed them on short-term contracts in the first place. Mr Birney: Are you proud of the fact that the prison population has dramatically reduced under the Labor Party? Mr McGINTY: The yardstick used by members opposite to measure the success of legislation was how many citizens it locked up. I regard that as an absolute admission of failure. No other State or Territory in Australia locks up minor offenders in the numbers or way they are locked up in Western Australia. Those people are more effectively punished outside the prisons. I am pleased that we are getting back to the norm. This Government treats the citizens of this State in a more sensible way. The economic rationalists opposite should consider that it costs $70 000 to keep one prisoner in prison for a year. That is taxpayers’ money that could be spent on schools, hospitals or a raft of other services. The Opposition wants the Government to spend precious dollars on locking up people who do not need to be locked up, because the nature of their offending is minor and they are not punished by imprisonment anywhere else in Australia. That economic irresponsibility on the part of the previous Government is being corrected by this Government. The SPEAKER: Order! Members who are not involved with the next item of business should carry on their conversations outside.
Mr McGINTY: The next lot? Ms Sue Walker: The 70 prison officers. Mr McGINTY: Of course not. An assessment will need to be made next year about the number of prison officers who will be required in the light of the prison population at that time. Why on earth would the Government tell people that something will happen to them next year when we do not know the basis upon which that decision will be made? That might have been the way in which the member for Nedlands wanted to run the show, but we will employ the appropriate number of prison officers for the prison population. There has been a dramatic fall of about 1 000 people in the state prison population. The Government will not maintain the same number of prison officers that was employed to look after 3 000 prisoners - Ms Sue Walker: Is that figure accurate? The SPEAKER: Order, member for Nedlands! Mr McGINTY: I ask the member for Nedlands to zip it. The Government will not maintain prison officers at the level needed to look after 3 000 prisoners when there are only 2 000 in the government prison system. That is crystal clear. Mr Birney: Do you believe that the new DNA legislation will rapidly fill that hole in prison numbers? Mr McGINTY: It will have a significant impact. That is one reason the Government will need to review the next batch of 70 prison officers who are employed on three-year contracts. We will need to consider the impact of the DNA legislation when the Liberal Party eventually passes it through the Legislative Council and gets on with it. Several members interjected. Mr McGINTY: I am pleased to hear that. The member is obviously more up-to-date than I am on that matter. When that legislation comes into effect, I believe that it will have a significant impact on the clear-up rate and will ensure that people who should be in prison for committing serious offences are in prison. That impact will need to be offset against the reduction in the prison population that will occur as a result of the sentencing legislation that the Government will introduce next month. At the moment, the Prison Officers Union, with which I have regular dialogue, wants to maintain staffing levels to cover 3 000 prisoners when there are only 2 000 prisoners in the system. It is irresponsible for anyone to suggest that that is the appropriate level of staffing. The Government is reducing the prison population in this State. At the moment, Western Australia imprisons its citizens at a far higher rate than anywhere else in the country. The previous Government ran the most expensive prison system in Australia as well. All those factors are fluid. They will all have a significant impact. We must take those matters into account. The Government will employ in good jobs the number of prison officers that is needed to run the system. We will not artificially create employment for prison officers who are not needed. The previous Government found that those officers were not needed when it employed them on short-term contracts in the first place. Mr Birney: Are you proud of the fact that the prison population has dramatically reduced under the Labor Party? Mr McGINTY: The yardstick used by members opposite to measure the success of legislation was how many citizens it locked up. I regard that as an absolute admission of failure. No other State or Territory in Australia locks up minor offenders in the numbers or way they are locked up in Western Australia. Those people are more effectively punished outside the prisons. I am pleased that we are getting back to the norm. This Government treats the citizens of this State in a more sensible way. The economic rationalists opposite should consider that it costs $70 000 to keep one prisoner in prison for a year. That is taxpayers’ money that could be spent on schools, hospitals or a raft of other services. The Opposition wants the Government to spend precious dollars on locking up people who do not need to be locked up, because the nature of their offending is minor and they are not punished by imprisonment anywhere else in Australia. That economic irresponsibility on the part of the previous Government is being corrected by this Government. The SPEAKER: Order! Members who are not involved with the next item of business should carry on their conversations outside.
Ms Sue Walker: The 70 prison officers. Mr McGINTY: Of course not. An assessment will need to be made next year about the number of prison officers who will be required in the light of the prison population at that time. Why on earth would the Government tell people that something will happen to them next year when we do not know the basis upon which that decision will be made? That might have been the way in which the member for Nedlands wanted to run the show, but we will employ the appropriate number of prison officers for the prison population. There has been a dramatic fall of about 1 000 people in the state prison population. The Government will not maintain the same number of prison officers that was employed to look after 3 000 prisoners - Ms Sue Walker: Is that figure accurate? The SPEAKER: Order, member for Nedlands! Mr McGINTY: I ask the member for Nedlands to zip it. The Government will not maintain prison officers at the level needed to look after 3 000 prisoners when there are only 2 000 in the government prison system. That is crystal clear. Mr Birney: Do you believe that the new DNA legislation will rapidly fill that hole in prison numbers? Mr McGINTY: It will have a significant impact. That is one reason the Government will need to review the next batch of 70 prison officers who are employed on three-year contracts. We will need to consider the impact of the DNA legislation when the Liberal Party eventually passes it through the Legislative Council and gets on with it. Several members interjected. Mr McGINTY: I am pleased to hear that. The member is obviously more up-to-date than I am on that matter. When that legislation comes into effect, I believe that it will have a significant impact on the clear-up rate and will ensure that people who should be in prison for committing serious offences are in prison. That impact will need to be offset against the reduction in the prison population that will occur as a result of the sentencing legislation that the Government will introduce next month. At the moment, the Prison Officers Union, with which I have regular dialogue, wants to maintain staffing levels to cover 3 000 prisoners when there are only 2 000 prisoners in the system. It is irresponsible for anyone to suggest that that is the appropriate level of staffing. The Government is reducing the prison population in this State. At the moment, Western Australia imprisons its citizens at a far higher rate than anywhere else in the country. The previous Government ran the most expensive prison system in Australia as well. All those factors are fluid. They will all have a significant impact. We must take those matters into account. The Government will employ in good jobs the number of prison officers that is needed to run the system. We will not artificially create employment for prison officers who are not needed. The previous Government found that those officers were not needed when it employed them on short-term contracts in the first place. Mr Birney: Are you proud of the fact that the prison population has dramatically reduced under the Labor Party? Mr McGINTY: The yardstick used by members opposite to measure the success of legislation was how many citizens it locked up. I regard that as an absolute admission of failure. No other State or Territory in Australia locks up minor offenders in the numbers or way they are locked up in Western Australia. Those people are more effectively punished outside the prisons. I am pleased that we are getting back to the norm. This Government treats the citizens of this State in a more sensible way. The economic rationalists opposite should consider that it costs $70 000 to keep one prisoner in prison for a year. That is taxpayers’ money that could be spent on schools, hospitals or a raft of other services. The Opposition wants the Government to spend precious dollars on locking up people who do not need to be locked up, because the nature of their offending is minor and they are not punished by imprisonment anywhere else in Australia. That economic irresponsibility on the part of the previous Government is being corrected by this Government. The SPEAKER: Order! Members who are not involved with the next item of business should carry on their conversations outside.
Mr McGINTY: Of course not. An assessment will need to be made next year about the number of prison officers who will be required in the light of the prison population at that time. Why on earth would the Government tell people that something will happen to them next year when we do not know the basis upon which that decision will be made? That might have been the way in which the member for Nedlands wanted to run the show, but we will employ the appropriate number of prison officers for the prison population. There has been a dramatic fall of about 1 000 people in the state prison population. The Government will not maintain the same number of prison officers that was employed to look after 3 000 prisoners - Ms Sue Walker: Is that figure accurate? The SPEAKER: Order, member for Nedlands! Mr McGINTY: I ask the member for Nedlands to zip it. The Government will not maintain prison officers at the level needed to look after 3 000 prisoners when there are only 2 000 in the government prison system. That is crystal clear. Mr Birney: Do you believe that the new DNA legislation will rapidly fill that hole in prison numbers? Mr McGINTY: It will have a significant impact. That is one reason the Government will need to review the next batch of 70 prison officers who are employed on three-year contracts. We will need to consider the impact of the DNA legislation when the Liberal Party eventually passes it through the Legislative Council and gets on with it. Several members interjected. Mr McGINTY: I am pleased to hear that. The member is obviously more up-to-date than I am on that matter. When that legislation comes into effect, I believe that it will have a significant impact on the clear-up rate and will ensure that people who should be in prison for committing serious offences are in prison. That impact will need to be offset against the reduction in the prison population that will occur as a result of the sentencing legislation that the Government will introduce next month. At the moment, the Prison Officers Union, with which I have regular dialogue, wants to maintain staffing levels to cover 3 000 prisoners when there are only 2 000 prisoners in the system. It is irresponsible for anyone to suggest that that is the appropriate level of staffing. The Government is reducing the prison population in this State. At the moment, Western Australia imprisons its citizens at a far higher rate than anywhere else in the country. The previous Government ran the most expensive prison system in Australia as well. All those factors are fluid. They will all have a significant impact. We must take those matters into account. The Government will employ in good jobs the number of prison officers that is needed to run the system. We will not artificially create employment for prison officers who are not needed. The previous Government found that those officers were not needed when it employed them on short-term contracts in the first place. Mr Birney: Are you proud of the fact that the prison population has dramatically reduced under the Labor Party? Mr McGINTY: The yardstick used by members opposite to measure the success of legislation was how many citizens it locked up. I regard that as an absolute admission of failure. No other State or Territory in Australia locks up minor offenders in the numbers or way they are locked up in Western Australia. Those people are more effectively punished outside the prisons. I am pleased that we are getting back to the norm. This Government treats the citizens of this State in a more sensible way. The economic rationalists opposite should consider that it costs $70 000 to keep one prisoner in prison for a year. That is taxpayers’ money that could be spent on schools, hospitals or a raft of other services. The Opposition wants the Government to spend precious dollars on locking up people who do not need to be locked up, because the nature of their offending is minor and they are not punished by imprisonment anywhere else in Australia. That economic irresponsibility on the part of the previous Government is being corrected by this Government. The SPEAKER: Order! Members who are not involved with the next item of business should carry on their conversations outside.
Ms Sue Walker: Is that figure accurate? The SPEAKER: Order, member for Nedlands! Mr McGINTY: I ask the member for Nedlands to zip it. The Government will not maintain prison officers at the level needed to look after 3 000 prisoners when there are only 2 000 in the government prison system. That is crystal clear. Mr Birney: Do you believe that the new DNA legislation will rapidly fill that hole in prison numbers? Mr McGINTY: It will have a significant impact. That is one reason the Government will need to review the next batch of 70 prison officers who are employed on three-year contracts. We will need to consider the impact of the DNA legislation when the Liberal Party eventually passes it through the Legislative Council and gets on with it. Several members interjected. Mr McGINTY: I am pleased to hear that. The member is obviously more up-to-date than I am on that matter. When that legislation comes into effect, I believe that it will have a significant impact on the clear-up rate and will ensure that people who should be in prison for committing serious offences are in prison. That impact will need to be offset against the reduction in the prison population that will occur as a result of the sentencing legislation that the Government will introduce next month. At the moment, the Prison Officers Union, with which I have regular dialogue, wants to maintain staffing levels to cover 3 000 prisoners when there are only 2 000 prisoners in the system. It is irresponsible for anyone to suggest that that is the appropriate level of staffing. The Government is reducing the prison population in this State. At the moment, Western Australia imprisons its citizens at a far higher rate than anywhere else in the country. The previous Government ran the most expensive prison system in Australia as well. All those factors are fluid. They will all have a significant impact. We must take those matters into account. The Government will employ in good jobs the number of prison officers that is needed to run the system. We will not artificially create employment for prison officers who are not needed. The previous Government found that those officers were not needed when it employed them on short-term contracts in the first place. Mr Birney: Are you proud of the fact that the prison population has dramatically reduced under the Labor Party? Mr McGINTY: The yardstick used by members opposite to measure the success of legislation was how many citizens it locked up. I regard that as an absolute admission of failure. No other State or Territory in Australia locks up minor offenders in the numbers or way they are locked up in Western Australia. Those people are more effectively punished outside the prisons. I am pleased that we are getting back to the norm. This Government treats the citizens of this State in a more sensible way. The economic rationalists opposite should consider that it costs $70 000 to keep one prisoner in prison for a year. That is taxpayers’ money that could be spent on schools, hospitals or a raft of other services. The Opposition wants the Government to spend precious dollars on locking up people who do not need to be locked up, because the nature of their offending is minor and they are not punished by imprisonment anywhere else in Australia. That economic irresponsibility on the part of the previous Government is being corrected by this Government. The SPEAKER: Order! Members who are not involved with the next item of business should carry on their conversations outside.
The SPEAKER: Order, member for Nedlands! Mr McGINTY: I ask the member for Nedlands to zip it. The Government will not maintain prison officers at the level needed to look after 3 000 prisoners when there are only 2 000 in the government prison system. That is crystal clear. Mr Birney: Do you believe that the new DNA legislation will rapidly fill that hole in prison numbers? Mr McGINTY: It will have a significant impact. That is one reason the Government will need to review the next batch of 70 prison officers who are employed on three-year contracts. We will need to consider the impact of the DNA legislation when the Liberal Party eventually passes it through the Legislative Council and gets on with it. Several members interjected. Mr McGINTY: I am pleased to hear that. The member is obviously more up-to-date than I am on that matter. When that legislation comes into effect, I believe that it will have a significant impact on the clear-up rate and will ensure that people who should be in prison for committing serious offences are in prison. That impact will need to be offset against the reduction in the prison population that will occur as a result of the sentencing legislation that the Government will introduce next month. At the moment, the Prison Officers Union, with which I have regular dialogue, wants to maintain staffing levels to cover 3 000 prisoners when there are only 2 000 prisoners in the system. It is irresponsible for anyone to suggest that that is the appropriate level of staffing. The Government is reducing the prison population in this State. At the moment, Western Australia imprisons its citizens at a far higher rate than anywhere else in the country. The previous Government ran the most expensive prison system in Australia as well. All those factors are fluid. They will all have a significant impact. We must take those matters into account. The Government will employ in good jobs the number of prison officers that is needed to run the system. We will not artificially create employment for prison officers who are not needed. The previous Government found that those officers were not needed when it employed them on short-term contracts in the first place. Mr Birney: Are you proud of the fact that the prison population has dramatically reduced under the Labor Party? Mr McGINTY: The yardstick used by members opposite to measure the success of legislation was how many citizens it locked up. I regard that as an absolute admission of failure. No other State or Territory in Australia locks up minor offenders in the numbers or way they are locked up in Western Australia. Those people are more effectively punished outside the prisons. I am pleased that we are getting back to the norm. This Government treats the citizens of this State in a more sensible way. The economic rationalists opposite should consider that it costs $70 000 to keep one prisoner in prison for a year. That is taxpayers’ money that could be spent on schools, hospitals or a raft of other services. The Opposition wants the Government to spend precious dollars on locking up people who do not need to be locked up, because the nature of their offending is minor and they are not punished by imprisonment anywhere else in Australia. That economic irresponsibility on the part of the previous Government is being corrected by this Government. The SPEAKER: Order! Members who are not involved with the next item of business should carry on their conversations outside.
Mr McGINTY: I ask the member for Nedlands to zip it. The Government will not maintain prison officers at the level needed to look after 3 000 prisoners when there are only 2 000 in the government prison system. That is crystal clear. Mr Birney: Do you believe that the new DNA legislation will rapidly fill that hole in prison numbers? Mr McGINTY: It will have a significant impact. That is one reason the Government will need to review the next batch of 70 prison officers who are employed on three-year contracts. We will need to consider the impact of the DNA legislation when the Liberal Party eventually passes it through the Legislative Council and gets on with it. Several members interjected. Mr McGINTY: I am pleased to hear that. The member is obviously more up-to-date than I am on that matter. When that legislation comes into effect, I believe that it will have a significant impact on the clear-up rate and will ensure that people who should be in prison for committing serious offences are in prison. That impact will need to be offset against the reduction in the prison population that will occur as a result of the sentencing legislation that the Government will introduce next month. At the moment, the Prison Officers Union, with which I have regular dialogue, wants to maintain staffing levels to cover 3 000 prisoners when there are only 2 000 prisoners in the system. It is irresponsible for anyone to suggest that that is the appropriate level of staffing. The Government is reducing the prison population in this State. At the moment, Western Australia imprisons its citizens at a far higher rate than anywhere else in the country. The previous Government ran the most expensive prison system in Australia as well. All those factors are fluid. They will all have a significant impact. We must take those matters into account. The Government will employ in good jobs the number of prison officers that is needed to run the system. We will not artificially create employment for prison officers who are not needed. The previous Government found that those officers were not needed when it employed them on short-term contracts in the first place. Mr Birney: Are you proud of the fact that the prison population has dramatically reduced under the Labor Party? Mr McGINTY: The yardstick used by members opposite to measure the success of legislation was how many citizens it locked up. I regard that as an absolute admission of failure. No other State or Territory in Australia locks up minor offenders in the numbers or way they are locked up in Western Australia. Those people are more effectively punished outside the prisons. I am pleased that we are getting back to the norm. This Government treats the citizens of this State in a more sensible way. The economic rationalists opposite should consider that it costs $70 000 to keep one prisoner in prison for a year. That is taxpayers’ money that could be spent on schools, hospitals or a raft of other services. The Opposition wants the Government to spend precious dollars on locking up people who do not need to be locked up, because the nature of their offending is minor and they are not punished by imprisonment anywhere else in Australia. That economic irresponsibility on the part of the previous Government is being corrected by this Government. The SPEAKER: Order! Members who are not involved with the next item of business should carry on their conversations outside.
Mr Birney: Do you believe that the new DNA legislation will rapidly fill that hole in prison numbers? Mr McGINTY: It will have a significant impact. That is one reason the Government will need to review the next batch of 70 prison officers who are employed on three-year contracts. We will need to consider the impact of the DNA legislation when the Liberal Party eventually passes it through the Legislative Council and gets on with it. Several members interjected. Mr McGINTY: I am pleased to hear that. The member is obviously more up-to-date than I am on that matter. When that legislation comes into effect, I believe that it will have a significant impact on the clear-up rate and will ensure that people who should be in prison for committing serious offences are in prison. That impact will need to be offset against the reduction in the prison population that will occur as a result of the sentencing legislation that the Government will introduce next month. At the moment, the Prison Officers Union, with which I have regular dialogue, wants to maintain staffing levels to cover 3 000 prisoners when there are only 2 000 prisoners in the system. It is irresponsible for anyone to suggest that that is the appropriate level of staffing. The Government is reducing the prison population in this State. At the moment, Western Australia imprisons its citizens at a far higher rate than anywhere else in the country. The previous Government ran the most expensive prison system in Australia as well. All those factors are fluid. They will all have a significant impact. We must take those matters into account. The Government will employ in good jobs the number of prison officers that is needed to run the system. We will not artificially create employment for prison officers who are not needed. The previous Government found that those officers were not needed when it employed them on short-term contracts in the first place. Mr Birney: Are you proud of the fact that the prison population has dramatically reduced under the Labor Party? Mr McGINTY: The yardstick used by members opposite to measure the success of legislation was how many citizens it locked up. I regard that as an absolute admission of failure. No other State or Territory in Australia locks up minor offenders in the numbers or way they are locked up in Western Australia. Those people are more effectively punished outside the prisons. I am pleased that we are getting back to the norm. This Government treats the citizens of this State in a more sensible way. The economic rationalists opposite should consider that it costs $70 000 to keep one prisoner in prison for a year. That is taxpayers’ money that could be spent on schools, hospitals or a raft of other services. The Opposition wants the Government to spend precious dollars on locking up people who do not need to be locked up, because the nature of their offending is minor and they are not punished by imprisonment anywhere else in Australia. That economic irresponsibility on the part of the previous Government is being corrected by this Government. The SPEAKER: Order! Members who are not involved with the next item of business should carry on their conversations outside.
Mr McGINTY: It will have a significant impact. That is one reason the Government will need to review the next batch of 70 prison officers who are employed on three-year contracts. We will need to consider the impact of the DNA legislation when the Liberal Party eventually passes it through the Legislative Council and gets on with it. Several members interjected. Mr McGINTY: I am pleased to hear that. The member is obviously more up-to-date than I am on that matter. When that legislation comes into effect, I believe that it will have a significant impact on the clear-up rate and will ensure that people who should be in prison for committing serious offences are in prison. That impact will need to be offset against the reduction in the prison population that will occur as a result of the sentencing legislation that the Government will introduce next month. At the moment, the Prison Officers Union, with which I have regular dialogue, wants to maintain staffing levels to cover 3 000 prisoners when there are only 2 000 prisoners in the system. It is irresponsible for anyone to suggest that that is the appropriate level of staffing. The Government is reducing the prison population in this State. At the moment, Western Australia imprisons its citizens at a far higher rate than anywhere else in the country. The previous Government ran the most expensive prison system in Australia as well. All those factors are fluid. They will all have a significant impact. We must take those matters into account. The Government will employ in good jobs the number of prison officers that is needed to run the system. We will not artificially create employment for prison officers who are not needed. The previous Government found that those officers were not needed when it employed them on short-term contracts in the first place. Mr Birney: Are you proud of the fact that the prison population has dramatically reduced under the Labor Party? Mr McGINTY: The yardstick used by members opposite to measure the success of legislation was how many citizens it locked up. I regard that as an absolute admission of failure. No other State or Territory in Australia locks up minor offenders in the numbers or way they are locked up in Western Australia. Those people are more effectively punished outside the prisons. I am pleased that we are getting back to the norm. This Government treats the citizens of this State in a more sensible way. The economic rationalists opposite should consider that it costs $70 000 to keep one prisoner in prison for a year. That is taxpayers’ money that could be spent on schools, hospitals or a raft of other services. The Opposition wants the Government to spend precious dollars on locking up people who do not need to be locked up, because the nature of their offending is minor and they are not punished by imprisonment anywhere else in Australia. That economic irresponsibility on the part of the previous Government is being corrected by this Government. The SPEAKER: Order! Members who are not involved with the next item of business should carry on their conversations outside.
Several members interjected. Mr McGINTY: I am pleased to hear that. The member is obviously more up-to-date than I am on that matter. When that legislation comes into effect, I believe that it will have a significant impact on the clear-up rate and will ensure that people who should be in prison for committing serious offences are in prison. That impact will need to be offset against the reduction in the prison population that will occur as a result of the sentencing legislation that the Government will introduce next month. At the moment, the Prison Officers Union, with which I have regular dialogue, wants to maintain staffing levels to cover 3 000 prisoners when there are only 2 000 prisoners in the system. It is irresponsible for anyone to suggest that that is the appropriate level of staffing. The Government is reducing the prison population in this State. At the moment, Western Australia imprisons its citizens at a far higher rate than anywhere else in the country. The previous Government ran the most expensive prison system in Australia as well. All those factors are fluid. They will all have a significant impact. We must take those matters into account. The Government will employ in good jobs the number of prison officers that is needed to run the system. We will not artificially create employment for prison officers who are not needed. The previous Government found that those officers were not needed when it employed them on short-term contracts in the first place. Mr Birney: Are you proud of the fact that the prison population has dramatically reduced under the Labor Party? Mr McGINTY: The yardstick used by members opposite to measure the success of legislation was how many citizens it locked up. I regard that as an absolute admission of failure. No other State or Territory in Australia locks up minor offenders in the numbers or way they are locked up in Western Australia. Those people are more effectively punished outside the prisons. I am pleased that we are getting back to the norm. This Government treats the citizens of this State in a more sensible way. The economic rationalists opposite should consider that it costs $70 000 to keep one prisoner in prison for a year. That is taxpayers’ money that could be spent on schools, hospitals or a raft of other services. The Opposition wants the Government to spend precious dollars on locking up people who do not need to be locked up, because the nature of their offending is minor and they are not punished by imprisonment anywhere else in Australia. That economic irresponsibility on the part of the previous Government is being corrected by this Government. The SPEAKER: Order! Members who are not involved with the next item of business should carry on their conversations outside.
Mr McGINTY: I am pleased to hear that. The member is obviously more up-to-date than I am on that matter. When that legislation comes into effect, I believe that it will have a significant impact on the clear-up rate and will ensure that people who should be in prison for committing serious offences are in prison. That impact will need to be offset against the reduction in the prison population that will occur as a result of the sentencing legislation that the Government will introduce next month. At the moment, the Prison Officers Union, with which I have regular dialogue, wants to maintain staffing levels to cover 3 000 prisoners when there are only 2 000 prisoners in the system. It is irresponsible for anyone to suggest that that is the appropriate level of staffing. The Government is reducing the prison population in this State. At the moment, Western Australia imprisons its citizens at a far higher rate than anywhere else in the country. The previous Government ran the most expensive prison system in Australia as well. All those factors are fluid. They will all have a significant impact. We must take those matters into account. The Government will employ in good jobs the number of prison officers that is needed to run the system. We will not artificially create employment for prison officers who are not needed. The previous Government found that those officers were not needed when it employed them on short-term contracts in the first place. Mr Birney: Are you proud of the fact that the prison population has dramatically reduced under the Labor Party? Mr McGINTY: The yardstick used by members opposite to measure the success of legislation was how many citizens it locked up. I regard that as an absolute admission of failure. No other State or Territory in Australia locks up minor offenders in the numbers or way they are locked up in Western Australia. Those people are more effectively punished outside the prisons. I am pleased that we are getting back to the norm. This Government treats the citizens of this State in a more sensible way. The economic rationalists opposite should consider that it costs $70 000 to keep one prisoner in prison for a year. That is taxpayers’ money that could be spent on schools, hospitals or a raft of other services. The Opposition wants the Government to spend precious dollars on locking up people who do not need to be locked up, because the nature of their offending is minor and they are not punished by imprisonment anywhere else in Australia. That economic irresponsibility on the part of the previous Government is being corrected by this Government. The SPEAKER: Order! Members who are not involved with the next item of business should carry on their conversations outside.
When that legislation comes into effect, I believe that it will have a significant impact on the clear-up rate and will ensure that people who should be in prison for committing serious offences are in prison. That impact will need to be offset against the reduction in the prison population that will occur as a result of the sentencing legislation that the Government will introduce next month. At the moment, the Prison Officers Union, with which I have regular dialogue, wants to maintain staffing levels to cover 3 000 prisoners when there are only 2 000 prisoners in the system. It is irresponsible for anyone to suggest that that is the appropriate level of staffing. The Government is reducing the prison population in this State. At the moment, Western Australia imprisons its citizens at a far higher rate than anywhere else in the country. The previous Government ran the most expensive prison system in Australia as well. All those factors are fluid. They will all have a significant impact. We must take those matters into account. The Government will employ in good jobs the number of prison officers that is needed to run the system. We will not artificially create employment for prison officers who are not needed. The previous Government found that those officers were not needed when it employed them on short-term contracts in the first place. Mr Birney: Are you proud of the fact that the prison population has dramatically reduced under the Labor Party? Mr McGINTY: The yardstick used by members opposite to measure the success of legislation was how many citizens it locked up. I regard that as an absolute admission of failure. No other State or Territory in Australia locks up minor offenders in the numbers or way they are locked up in Western Australia. Those people are more effectively punished outside the prisons. I am pleased that we are getting back to the norm. This Government treats the citizens of this State in a more sensible way. The economic rationalists opposite should consider that it costs $70 000 to keep one prisoner in prison for a year. That is taxpayers’ money that could be spent on schools, hospitals or a raft of other services. The Opposition wants the Government to spend precious dollars on locking up people who do not need to be locked up, because the nature of their offending is minor and they are not punished by imprisonment anywhere else in Australia. That economic irresponsibility on the part of the previous Government is being corrected by this Government. The SPEAKER: Order! Members who are not involved with the next item of business should carry on their conversations outside.
Mr Birney: Are you proud of the fact that the prison population has dramatically reduced under the Labor Party? Mr McGINTY: The yardstick used by members opposite to measure the success of legislation was how many citizens it locked up. I regard that as an absolute admission of failure. No other State or Territory in Australia locks up minor offenders in the numbers or way they are locked up in Western Australia. Those people are more effectively punished outside the prisons. I am pleased that we are getting back to the norm. This Government treats the citizens of this State in a more sensible way. The economic rationalists opposite should consider that it costs $70 000 to keep one prisoner in prison for a year. That is taxpayers’ money that could be spent on schools, hospitals or a raft of other services. The Opposition wants the Government to spend precious dollars on locking up people who do not need to be locked up, because the nature of their offending is minor and they are not punished by imprisonment anywhere else in Australia. That economic irresponsibility on the part of the previous Government is being corrected by this Government. The SPEAKER: Order! Members who are not involved with the next item of business should carry on their conversations outside.
Mr McGINTY: The yardstick used by members opposite to measure the success of legislation was how many citizens it locked up. I regard that as an absolute admission of failure. No other State or Territory in Australia locks up minor offenders in the numbers or way they are locked up in Western Australia. Those people are more effectively punished outside the prisons. I am pleased that we are getting back to the norm. This Government treats the citizens of this State in a more sensible way. The economic rationalists opposite should consider that it costs $70 000 to keep one prisoner in prison for a year. That is taxpayers’ money that could be spent on schools, hospitals or a raft of other services. The Opposition wants the Government to spend precious dollars on locking up people who do not need to be locked up, because the nature of their offending is minor and they are not punished by imprisonment anywhere else in Australia. That economic irresponsibility on the part of the previous Government is being corrected by this Government. The SPEAKER: Order! Members who are not involved with the next item of business should carry on their conversations outside.
The SPEAKER: Order! Members who are not involved with the next item of business should carry on their conversations outside.
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