❓ Opposition questions the Premier regarding Minister McSweeney's alleged pressure on abuse victim Michelle Stubbs concerning Redress WA funding cuts. The Premier deflects, highlighting Labor's mismanagement of the scheme and improvements made by his government.
AnsweredQoN 576Legislative Assembly
QuestionView source ↗
REDRESS WA — MICHELLE STUBBS — Minister for Community Services
I refer to the letter from abuse victim Michelle Stubbs, which states that Minister McSweeney called her on the morning that the government made its announcement to slash Redress WA funding to ask her to “let this one go through to the keeper”. (1) What involvement in this matter did the Premier or his office have? (2) Who in government arranged this discussion with Minister McSweeney or her office before it happened? (3) Has the Premier instructed Minister McSweeney to apologise to Michelle Stubbs for this action? Opposition member: Good question! Mr C.J. BARNETT
I refer to the letter from abuse victim Michelle Stubbs, which states that Minister McSweeney called her on the morning that the government made its announcement to slash Redress WA funding to ask her to “let this one go through to the keeper”. (1) What involvement in this matter did the Premier or his office have? (2) Who in government arranged this discussion with Minister McSweeney or her office before it happened? (3) Has the Premier instructed Minister McSweeney to apologise to Michelle Stubbs for this action? Opposition member: Good question! Mr C.J. BARNETT
AnswerView source ↗
Yes, it is a good question, and I have a good answer. (1)–(3) We debated this issue this morning, and I want to restate very briefly, if I may, that the previous government, the Labor Party, allocated $90 million to this scheme. It did not cost it properly. It put out and raised an expectation that the victims of abuse under the Redress WA scheme would receive payments up to $85 000, with only two categories. When coming to government we were aware that the previous government had ignored advice that the scheme was under-costed and would probably run, at that rate, to some $200 million—and, yes, in a difficult economic environment, but, also, I think, on proper grounds, this government did reduce the maximum payment from $80 000 to $45 000. We introduced four categories; and, indeed, the payments have flowed and, as I said this morning, the vast majority of people have been assessed and have received not a compensation payment, but an ex gratia payment. The Attorney General also made clear this morning, and I will repeat what he had to say, that apart from the change to the maximum payment, this government also introduced a number of changes—changes very much to the benefit of Redress victims. There was no longer a requirement for psychological and medical assessments, as had been required by Labor. We also removed a requirement under Labor that applicants had to sign a waiver that they would not sue the government. We removed that and protected their legal right, if they chose to, to sue the government. We also introduced a payment of $5 000 for those applicants who may have died during the process. A number have, and their estate, and therefore their families and descendants, has received $5 000. Under Labor, applicants had no right of appeal at all. Labor did not allow that. We allowed a right of appeal — Ms M.M. Quirk : We didn’t need to. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Well, a number of people have appealed. So the previous government took away the right for legal action and it took away the right to appeal; and, to make sure it is correct, once a person had accepted a payment, they had to accept that that was the end of the process and they would not have an appeal. But the former government did not allow that even from the beginning. If their level of assessment, in their mind, was wrong, as may have been the case with Michelle Stubbs, those opposite denied them a right of appeal from the outset. They denied them a right of appeal; they denied them access to the law to take legal action. So I would not be too — Mr M. McGowan : You said all that this morning. Mr C.J. BARNETT : And what did the member say this morning? I will tell the member for Rockingham what he said this morning. What he — Mr W.J. Johnston : What is the answer to the question? Instead of coming in here and telling lies — The SPEAKER : Member for Cannington! Mr C.J. BARNETT : You did not even know the system. Mr R.F. JOHNSON : Mr Speaker — Withdrawal of Remark The SPEAKER : Take a seat, Premier; take a seat, Leader of the House. Member for Cannington, I request that you withdraw that comment. Mr W.J. JOHNSTON : I withdraw. Questions without Notice Resumed Mr C.J. BARNETT : Members opposite hurled accusations across the chamber. I will remember what the member for Joondalup said in particular. Mr W.J. Johnston : What did he say? Mr C.J. BARNETT : I will remember. Mr W.J. Johnston : What did he say? The SPEAKER : Member for Cannington! Mr C.J. BARNETT : I also recall very distinctly the member for Rockingham accusing Hon Robyn McSweeney of heavying—that was his expression — Mr M. McGowan : Yes. Mr C.J. BARNETT : — Michelle Stubbs. Mr M. McGowan : That’s what her letter says. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Jumping to conclusions and jumping to assertions. Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Maybe the member should listen for a little while. Hon Robyn McSweeney has professional experience, and years of experience, in dealing with children who have been abused. At least respect that. She is a professional in the area and has years of experience. Mrs M.H. Roberts : That’s why she should have known better, isn’t it? Mr C.J. BARNETT : Why do you not listen for a moment? Members opposite do not treat this seriously. Mrs M.H. Roberts : You don’t. The SPEAKER : Member for Midland, I formally call you to order for the first time today. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I just remind the house that Hon Robyn McSweeney has had years of experience in dealing with abused children. If anyone in this Parliament is sensitive to that situation, it would be her. If anyone has years of personal and professional experience in the area, it would be her—it would be Hon Robyn McSweeney—yet members opposite, and in particular the member for Rockingham, without any true knowledge of the situation, accused Hon Robyn McSweeney of ringing Michelle Stubbs and heavying her. They were the words that the member for Rockingham used. Mr M. McGowan : They were. Mr C.J. BARNETT : So I have taken the trouble, my office has taken the trouble, of being in contact with Hon Robyn McSweeney, and members opposite might be interested in the truth. “Don’t let the truth get in the way” is the Labor paradigm. But members opposite might be interested this time. Mr E.S. Ripper : I am interested. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Okay; well, why don’t you listen? I will tell you what happened. On the day — Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I will tell you what happened. On the day the announcement was made to reduce the maximum payment from $80 000 to $45 000, and the other changes that I have just outlined, Michelle Stubbs—Michelle Stubbs is a good person; I know her reasonably well—was appointed by Hon Robyn McSweeney — Mrs M.H. Roberts : Now you’re saying she’s a liar. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I have never, Mr Speaker, accused Michelle Stubbs of lying—ever—have I? I actually regard her as a friend. Never ever have I said that. You should withdraw and apologise. The SPEAKER : We have been through some of this this morning and some of you know where you are with it at this point. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I know Michelle Stubbs reasonably well. I have a great deal of respect and admiration for her. I like her as a person, and I fully recognise the incredible hardship that she suffered. No-one should doubt that, and certainly not people who know Michelle. Michelle Stubbs was appointed to the Ministerial Advisory Council on Child Protection by Hon Robyn McSweeney. They obviously had many conversations, including conversations about the Redress scheme and the like. On the day in July 2009 when the minister announced that the maximum payment would be reduced from $80 000 to $45 000 and the other changes which were outlined by the Attorney General this morning and which I have just repeated, Michelle Stubbs rang Hon Robyn McSweeney. She made contact with Hon Robyn McSweeney’s office and left a message. Hon Robyn McSweeney, the minister, dutifully returned that call and they had a lengthy conversation. Understandably, Michelle Stubbs was upset, she was emotional, and the conversation went on for some time. They know each other well. It was Michelle Stubbs who rang the minister to discuss the issue. She was on the advisory council; she knew what was going on. So to come in here and accuse, as the member for Rockingham did — Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : No, you have to be big enough and man enough to take it now. This is a test of all of you now. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the first time today. Member for Kwinana, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Leader of the Opposition, do you have a supplementary question? Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I am still — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen, I am formally going to call you to order for the first time today. You have a bit to make up, member for Girrawheen. Mr P.C. Tinley interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Willagee, just for the form, I call you to order as well. Mr C.J. BARNETT : It was Michelle Stubbs who called the minister’s office to try to persuade the minister to not reduce the maximum payment. That is clear from her letter today. The minister returned her call, later in the day, and they had a quite lengthy conversation. As I understand it, they talked about the scheme. Point number one: Michelle Stubbs contacted the minister, not the other way around. Point number two: I hope that the member for Rockingham is man enough to apologise, because Hon Robyn McSweeney did not ring Michelle Stubbs to “heavy” her, which he accused her of in this Parliament and which is on the record of this Parliament. I hope he is man enough to apologise to the minister; if not in here, when he sees her in the building. Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : The final point—by way of interjection!—is that Robyn McSweeney said, in the context of a lengthy conversation in which Michelle was extremely emotional, and understandably so, that she did use words along the lines of “let it go through to the keeper”, but that is very different from the accusation that the member for Rockingham made; namely, that the minister got on the phone and “heavied” her. The other accusation made by — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Willagee, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Midland, I formally call you to order for the second time today. I am not particularly interested in being continually on my feet formally calling members to order. It is not something that I want to do on a daily basis, let alone on a minute-by-minute basis! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I will conclude. The question had an implied accusation from the Leader of the Opposition that I and my office had in some way encouraged or got Robyn McSweeney to ring up Michelle Stubbs and “heavy” her. That was the tone of the question. I will tell the Leader of the Opposition that he might do that, the Labor Party might do that, but I do not!
(1) What involvement in this matter did the Premier or his office have? (2) Who in government arranged this discussion with Minister McSweeney or her office before it happened? (3) Has the Premier instructed Minister McSweeney to apologise to Michelle Stubbs for this action? Opposition member: Good question! Mr C.J. BARNETT replied: Yes, it is a good question, and I have a good answer. (1)–(3) We debated this issue this morning, and I want to restate very briefly, if I may, that the previous government, the Labor Party, allocated $90 million to this scheme. It did not cost it properly. It put out and raised an expectation that the victims of abuse under the Redress WA scheme would receive payments up to $85 000, with only two categories. When coming to government we were aware that the previous government had ignored advice that the scheme was under-costed and would probably run, at that rate, to some $200 million—and, yes, in a difficult economic environment, but, also, I think, on proper grounds, this government did reduce the maximum payment from $80 000 to $45 000. We introduced four categories; and, indeed, the payments have flowed and, as I said this morning, the vast majority of people have been assessed and have received not a compensation payment, but an ex gratia payment. The Attorney General also made clear this morning, and I will repeat what he had to say, that apart from the change to the maximum payment, this government also introduced a number of changes—changes very much to the benefit of Redress victims. There was no longer a requirement for psychological and medical assessments, as had been required by Labor. We also removed a requirement under Labor that applicants had to sign a waiver that they would not sue the government. We removed that and protected their legal right, if they chose to, to sue the government. We also introduced a payment of $5 000 for those applicants who may have died during the process. A number have, and their estate, and therefore their families and descendants, has received $5 000. Under Labor, applicants had no right of appeal at all. Labor did not allow that. We allowed a right of appeal — Ms M.M. Quirk : We didn’t need to. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Well, a number of people have appealed. So the previous government took away the right for legal action and it took away the right to appeal; and, to make sure it is correct, once a person had accepted a payment, they had to accept that that was the end of the process and they would not have an appeal. But the former government did not allow that even from the beginning. If their level of assessment, in their mind, was wrong, as may have been the case with Michelle Stubbs, those opposite denied them a right of appeal from the outset. They denied them a right of appeal; they denied them access to the law to take legal action. So I would not be too — Mr M. McGowan : You said all that this morning. Mr C.J. BARNETT : And what did the member say this morning? I will tell the member for Rockingham what he said this morning. What he — Mr W.J. Johnston : What is the answer to the question? Instead of coming in here and telling lies — The SPEAKER : Member for Cannington! Mr C.J. BARNETT : You did not even know the system. Mr R.F. JOHNSON : Mr Speaker — Withdrawal of Remark The SPEAKER : Take a seat, Premier; take a seat, Leader of the House. Member for Cannington, I request that you withdraw that comment. Mr W.J. JOHNSTON : I withdraw. Questions without Notice Resumed Mr C.J. BARNETT : Members opposite hurled accusations across the chamber. I will remember what the member for Joondalup said in particular. Mr W.J. Johnston : What did he say? Mr C.J. BARNETT : I will remember. Mr W.J. Johnston : What did he say? The SPEAKER : Member for Cannington! Mr C.J. BARNETT : I also recall very distinctly the member for Rockingham accusing Hon Robyn McSweeney of heavying—that was his expression — Mr M. McGowan : Yes. Mr C.J. BARNETT : — Michelle Stubbs. Mr M. McGowan : That’s what her letter says. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Jumping to conclusions and jumping to assertions. Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Maybe the member should listen for a little while. Hon Robyn McSweeney has professional experience, and years of experience, in dealing with children who have been abused. At least respect that. She is a professional in the area and has years of experience. Mrs M.H. Roberts : That’s why she should have known better, isn’t it? Mr C.J. BARNETT : Why do you not listen for a moment? Members opposite do not treat this seriously. Mrs M.H. Roberts : You don’t. The SPEAKER : Member for Midland, I formally call you to order for the first time today. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I just remind the house that Hon Robyn McSweeney has had years of experience in dealing with abused children. If anyone in this Parliament is sensitive to that situation, it would be her. If anyone has years of personal and professional experience in the area, it would be her—it would be Hon Robyn McSweeney—yet members opposite, and in particular the member for Rockingham, without any true knowledge of the situation, accused Hon Robyn McSweeney of ringing Michelle Stubbs and heavying her. They were the words that the member for Rockingham used. Mr M. McGowan : They were. Mr C.J. BARNETT : So I have taken the trouble, my office has taken the trouble, of being in contact with Hon Robyn McSweeney, and members opposite might be interested in the truth. “Don’t let the truth get in the way” is the Labor paradigm. But members opposite might be interested this time. Mr E.S. Ripper : I am interested. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Okay; well, why don’t you listen? I will tell you what happened. On the day — Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I will tell you what happened. On the day the announcement was made to reduce the maximum payment from $80 000 to $45 000, and the other changes that I have just outlined, Michelle Stubbs—Michelle Stubbs is a good person; I know her reasonably well—was appointed by Hon Robyn McSweeney — Mrs M.H. Roberts : Now you’re saying she’s a liar. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I have never, Mr Speaker, accused Michelle Stubbs of lying—ever—have I? I actually regard her as a friend. Never ever have I said that. You should withdraw and apologise. The SPEAKER : We have been through some of this this morning and some of you know where you are with it at this point. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I know Michelle Stubbs reasonably well. I have a great deal of respect and admiration for her. I like her as a person, and I fully recognise the incredible hardship that she suffered. No-one should doubt that, and certainly not people who know Michelle. Michelle Stubbs was appointed to the Ministerial Advisory Council on Child Protection by Hon Robyn McSweeney. They obviously had many conversations, including conversations about the Redress scheme and the like. On the day in July 2009 when the minister announced that the maximum payment would be reduced from $80 000 to $45 000 and the other changes which were outlined by the Attorney General this morning and which I have just repeated, Michelle Stubbs rang Hon Robyn McSweeney. She made contact with Hon Robyn McSweeney’s office and left a message. Hon Robyn McSweeney, the minister, dutifully returned that call and they had a lengthy conversation. Understandably, Michelle Stubbs was upset, she was emotional, and the conversation went on for some time. They know each other well. It was Michelle Stubbs who rang the minister to discuss the issue. She was on the advisory council; she knew what was going on. So to come in here and accuse, as the member for Rockingham did — Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : No, you have to be big enough and man enough to take it now. This is a test of all of you now. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the first time today. Member for Kwinana, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Leader of the Opposition, do you have a supplementary question? Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I am still — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen, I am formally going to call you to order for the first time today. You have a bit to make up, member for Girrawheen. Mr P.C. Tinley interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Willagee, just for the form, I call you to order as well. Mr C.J. BARNETT : It was Michelle Stubbs who called the minister’s office to try to persuade the minister to not reduce the maximum payment. That is clear from her letter today. The minister returned her call, later in the day, and they had a quite lengthy conversation. As I understand it, they talked about the scheme. Point number one: Michelle Stubbs contacted the minister, not the other way around. Point number two: I hope that the member for Rockingham is man enough to apologise, because Hon Robyn McSweeney did not ring Michelle Stubbs to “heavy” her, which he accused her of in this Parliament and which is on the record of this Parliament. I hope he is man enough to apologise to the minister; if not in here, when he sees her in the building. Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : The final point—by way of interjection!—is that Robyn McSweeney said, in the context of a lengthy conversation in which Michelle was extremely emotional, and understandably so, that she did use words along the lines of “let it go through to the keeper”, but that is very different from the accusation that the member for Rockingham made; namely, that the minister got on the phone and “heavied” her. The other accusation made by — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Willagee, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Midland, I formally call you to order for the second time today. I am not particularly interested in being continually on my feet formally calling members to order. It is not something that I want to do on a daily basis, let alone on a minute-by-minute basis! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I will conclude. The question had an implied accusation from the Leader of the Opposition that I and my office had in some way encouraged or got Robyn McSweeney to ring up Michelle Stubbs and “heavy” her. That was the tone of the question. I will tell the Leader of the Opposition that he might do that, the Labor Party might do that, but I do not!
(2) Who in government arranged this discussion with Minister McSweeney or her office before it happened? (3) Has the Premier instructed Minister McSweeney to apologise to Michelle Stubbs for this action? Opposition member: Good question! Mr C.J. BARNETT replied: Yes, it is a good question, and I have a good answer. (1)–(3) We debated this issue this morning, and I want to restate very briefly, if I may, that the previous government, the Labor Party, allocated $90 million to this scheme. It did not cost it properly. It put out and raised an expectation that the victims of abuse under the Redress WA scheme would receive payments up to $85 000, with only two categories. When coming to government we were aware that the previous government had ignored advice that the scheme was under-costed and would probably run, at that rate, to some $200 million—and, yes, in a difficult economic environment, but, also, I think, on proper grounds, this government did reduce the maximum payment from $80 000 to $45 000. We introduced four categories; and, indeed, the payments have flowed and, as I said this morning, the vast majority of people have been assessed and have received not a compensation payment, but an ex gratia payment. The Attorney General also made clear this morning, and I will repeat what he had to say, that apart from the change to the maximum payment, this government also introduced a number of changes—changes very much to the benefit of Redress victims. There was no longer a requirement for psychological and medical assessments, as had been required by Labor. We also removed a requirement under Labor that applicants had to sign a waiver that they would not sue the government. We removed that and protected their legal right, if they chose to, to sue the government. We also introduced a payment of $5 000 for those applicants who may have died during the process. A number have, and their estate, and therefore their families and descendants, has received $5 000. Under Labor, applicants had no right of appeal at all. Labor did not allow that. We allowed a right of appeal — Ms M.M. Quirk : We didn’t need to. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Well, a number of people have appealed. So the previous government took away the right for legal action and it took away the right to appeal; and, to make sure it is correct, once a person had accepted a payment, they had to accept that that was the end of the process and they would not have an appeal. But the former government did not allow that even from the beginning. If their level of assessment, in their mind, was wrong, as may have been the case with Michelle Stubbs, those opposite denied them a right of appeal from the outset. They denied them a right of appeal; they denied them access to the law to take legal action. So I would not be too — Mr M. McGowan : You said all that this morning. Mr C.J. BARNETT : And what did the member say this morning? I will tell the member for Rockingham what he said this morning. What he — Mr W.J. Johnston : What is the answer to the question? Instead of coming in here and telling lies — The SPEAKER : Member for Cannington! Mr C.J. BARNETT : You did not even know the system. Mr R.F. JOHNSON : Mr Speaker — Withdrawal of Remark The SPEAKER : Take a seat, Premier; take a seat, Leader of the House. Member for Cannington, I request that you withdraw that comment. Mr W.J. JOHNSTON : I withdraw. Questions without Notice Resumed Mr C.J. BARNETT : Members opposite hurled accusations across the chamber. I will remember what the member for Joondalup said in particular. Mr W.J. Johnston : What did he say? Mr C.J. BARNETT : I will remember. Mr W.J. Johnston : What did he say? The SPEAKER : Member for Cannington! Mr C.J. BARNETT : I also recall very distinctly the member for Rockingham accusing Hon Robyn McSweeney of heavying—that was his expression — Mr M. McGowan : Yes. Mr C.J. BARNETT : — Michelle Stubbs. Mr M. McGowan : That’s what her letter says. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Jumping to conclusions and jumping to assertions. Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Maybe the member should listen for a little while. Hon Robyn McSweeney has professional experience, and years of experience, in dealing with children who have been abused. At least respect that. She is a professional in the area and has years of experience. Mrs M.H. Roberts : That’s why she should have known better, isn’t it? Mr C.J. BARNETT : Why do you not listen for a moment? Members opposite do not treat this seriously. Mrs M.H. Roberts : You don’t. The SPEAKER : Member for Midland, I formally call you to order for the first time today. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I just remind the house that Hon Robyn McSweeney has had years of experience in dealing with abused children. If anyone in this Parliament is sensitive to that situation, it would be her. If anyone has years of personal and professional experience in the area, it would be her—it would be Hon Robyn McSweeney—yet members opposite, and in particular the member for Rockingham, without any true knowledge of the situation, accused Hon Robyn McSweeney of ringing Michelle Stubbs and heavying her. They were the words that the member for Rockingham used. Mr M. McGowan : They were. Mr C.J. BARNETT : So I have taken the trouble, my office has taken the trouble, of being in contact with Hon Robyn McSweeney, and members opposite might be interested in the truth. “Don’t let the truth get in the way” is the Labor paradigm. But members opposite might be interested this time. Mr E.S. Ripper : I am interested. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Okay; well, why don’t you listen? I will tell you what happened. On the day — Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I will tell you what happened. On the day the announcement was made to reduce the maximum payment from $80 000 to $45 000, and the other changes that I have just outlined, Michelle Stubbs—Michelle Stubbs is a good person; I know her reasonably well—was appointed by Hon Robyn McSweeney — Mrs M.H. Roberts : Now you’re saying she’s a liar. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I have never, Mr Speaker, accused Michelle Stubbs of lying—ever—have I? I actually regard her as a friend. Never ever have I said that. You should withdraw and apologise. The SPEAKER : We have been through some of this this morning and some of you know where you are with it at this point. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I know Michelle Stubbs reasonably well. I have a great deal of respect and admiration for her. I like her as a person, and I fully recognise the incredible hardship that she suffered. No-one should doubt that, and certainly not people who know Michelle. Michelle Stubbs was appointed to the Ministerial Advisory Council on Child Protection by Hon Robyn McSweeney. They obviously had many conversations, including conversations about the Redress scheme and the like. On the day in July 2009 when the minister announced that the maximum payment would be reduced from $80 000 to $45 000 and the other changes which were outlined by the Attorney General this morning and which I have just repeated, Michelle Stubbs rang Hon Robyn McSweeney. She made contact with Hon Robyn McSweeney’s office and left a message. Hon Robyn McSweeney, the minister, dutifully returned that call and they had a lengthy conversation. Understandably, Michelle Stubbs was upset, she was emotional, and the conversation went on for some time. They know each other well. It was Michelle Stubbs who rang the minister to discuss the issue. She was on the advisory council; she knew what was going on. So to come in here and accuse, as the member for Rockingham did — Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : No, you have to be big enough and man enough to take it now. This is a test of all of you now. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the first time today. Member for Kwinana, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Leader of the Opposition, do you have a supplementary question? Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I am still — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen, I am formally going to call you to order for the first time today. You have a bit to make up, member for Girrawheen. Mr P.C. Tinley interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Willagee, just for the form, I call you to order as well. Mr C.J. BARNETT : It was Michelle Stubbs who called the minister’s office to try to persuade the minister to not reduce the maximum payment. That is clear from her letter today. The minister returned her call, later in the day, and they had a quite lengthy conversation. As I understand it, they talked about the scheme. Point number one: Michelle Stubbs contacted the minister, not the other way around. Point number two: I hope that the member for Rockingham is man enough to apologise, because Hon Robyn McSweeney did not ring Michelle Stubbs to “heavy” her, which he accused her of in this Parliament and which is on the record of this Parliament. I hope he is man enough to apologise to the minister; if not in here, when he sees her in the building. Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : The final point—by way of interjection!—is that Robyn McSweeney said, in the context of a lengthy conversation in which Michelle was extremely emotional, and understandably so, that she did use words along the lines of “let it go through to the keeper”, but that is very different from the accusation that the member for Rockingham made; namely, that the minister got on the phone and “heavied” her. The other accusation made by — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Willagee, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Midland, I formally call you to order for the second time today. I am not particularly interested in being continually on my feet formally calling members to order. It is not something that I want to do on a daily basis, let alone on a minute-by-minute basis! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I will conclude. The question had an implied accusation from the Leader of the Opposition that I and my office had in some way encouraged or got Robyn McSweeney to ring up Michelle Stubbs and “heavy” her. That was the tone of the question. I will tell the Leader of the Opposition that he might do that, the Labor Party might do that, but I do not!
(3) Has the Premier instructed Minister McSweeney to apologise to Michelle Stubbs for this action? Opposition member: Good question! Mr C.J. BARNETT replied: Yes, it is a good question, and I have a good answer. (1)–(3) We debated this issue this morning, and I want to restate very briefly, if I may, that the previous government, the Labor Party, allocated $90 million to this scheme. It did not cost it properly. It put out and raised an expectation that the victims of abuse under the Redress WA scheme would receive payments up to $85 000, with only two categories. When coming to government we were aware that the previous government had ignored advice that the scheme was under-costed and would probably run, at that rate, to some $200 million—and, yes, in a difficult economic environment, but, also, I think, on proper grounds, this government did reduce the maximum payment from $80 000 to $45 000. We introduced four categories; and, indeed, the payments have flowed and, as I said this morning, the vast majority of people have been assessed and have received not a compensation payment, but an ex gratia payment. The Attorney General also made clear this morning, and I will repeat what he had to say, that apart from the change to the maximum payment, this government also introduced a number of changes—changes very much to the benefit of Redress victims. There was no longer a requirement for psychological and medical assessments, as had been required by Labor. We also removed a requirement under Labor that applicants had to sign a waiver that they would not sue the government. We removed that and protected their legal right, if they chose to, to sue the government. We also introduced a payment of $5 000 for those applicants who may have died during the process. A number have, and their estate, and therefore their families and descendants, has received $5 000. Under Labor, applicants had no right of appeal at all. Labor did not allow that. We allowed a right of appeal — Ms M.M. Quirk : We didn’t need to. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Well, a number of people have appealed. So the previous government took away the right for legal action and it took away the right to appeal; and, to make sure it is correct, once a person had accepted a payment, they had to accept that that was the end of the process and they would not have an appeal. But the former government did not allow that even from the beginning. If their level of assessment, in their mind, was wrong, as may have been the case with Michelle Stubbs, those opposite denied them a right of appeal from the outset. They denied them a right of appeal; they denied them access to the law to take legal action. So I would not be too — Mr M. McGowan : You said all that this morning. Mr C.J. BARNETT : And what did the member say this morning? I will tell the member for Rockingham what he said this morning. What he — Mr W.J. Johnston : What is the answer to the question? Instead of coming in here and telling lies — The SPEAKER : Member for Cannington! Mr C.J. BARNETT : You did not even know the system. Mr R.F. JOHNSON : Mr Speaker — Withdrawal of Remark The SPEAKER : Take a seat, Premier; take a seat, Leader of the House. Member for Cannington, I request that you withdraw that comment. Mr W.J. JOHNSTON : I withdraw. Questions without Notice Resumed Mr C.J. BARNETT : Members opposite hurled accusations across the chamber. I will remember what the member for Joondalup said in particular. Mr W.J. Johnston : What did he say? Mr C.J. BARNETT : I will remember. Mr W.J. Johnston : What did he say? The SPEAKER : Member for Cannington! Mr C.J. BARNETT : I also recall very distinctly the member for Rockingham accusing Hon Robyn McSweeney of heavying—that was his expression — Mr M. McGowan : Yes. Mr C.J. BARNETT : — Michelle Stubbs. Mr M. McGowan : That’s what her letter says. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Jumping to conclusions and jumping to assertions. Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Maybe the member should listen for a little while. Hon Robyn McSweeney has professional experience, and years of experience, in dealing with children who have been abused. At least respect that. She is a professional in the area and has years of experience. Mrs M.H. Roberts : That’s why she should have known better, isn’t it? Mr C.J. BARNETT : Why do you not listen for a moment? Members opposite do not treat this seriously. Mrs M.H. Roberts : You don’t. The SPEAKER : Member for Midland, I formally call you to order for the first time today. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I just remind the house that Hon Robyn McSweeney has had years of experience in dealing with abused children. If anyone in this Parliament is sensitive to that situation, it would be her. If anyone has years of personal and professional experience in the area, it would be her—it would be Hon Robyn McSweeney—yet members opposite, and in particular the member for Rockingham, without any true knowledge of the situation, accused Hon Robyn McSweeney of ringing Michelle Stubbs and heavying her. They were the words that the member for Rockingham used. Mr M. McGowan : They were. Mr C.J. BARNETT : So I have taken the trouble, my office has taken the trouble, of being in contact with Hon Robyn McSweeney, and members opposite might be interested in the truth. “Don’t let the truth get in the way” is the Labor paradigm. But members opposite might be interested this time. Mr E.S. Ripper : I am interested. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Okay; well, why don’t you listen? I will tell you what happened. On the day — Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I will tell you what happened. On the day the announcement was made to reduce the maximum payment from $80 000 to $45 000, and the other changes that I have just outlined, Michelle Stubbs—Michelle Stubbs is a good person; I know her reasonably well—was appointed by Hon Robyn McSweeney — Mrs M.H. Roberts : Now you’re saying she’s a liar. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I have never, Mr Speaker, accused Michelle Stubbs of lying—ever—have I? I actually regard her as a friend. Never ever have I said that. You should withdraw and apologise. The SPEAKER : We have been through some of this this morning and some of you know where you are with it at this point. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I know Michelle Stubbs reasonably well. I have a great deal of respect and admiration for her. I like her as a person, and I fully recognise the incredible hardship that she suffered. No-one should doubt that, and certainly not people who know Michelle. Michelle Stubbs was appointed to the Ministerial Advisory Council on Child Protection by Hon Robyn McSweeney. They obviously had many conversations, including conversations about the Redress scheme and the like. On the day in July 2009 when the minister announced that the maximum payment would be reduced from $80 000 to $45 000 and the other changes which were outlined by the Attorney General this morning and which I have just repeated, Michelle Stubbs rang Hon Robyn McSweeney. She made contact with Hon Robyn McSweeney’s office and left a message. Hon Robyn McSweeney, the minister, dutifully returned that call and they had a lengthy conversation. Understandably, Michelle Stubbs was upset, she was emotional, and the conversation went on for some time. They know each other well. It was Michelle Stubbs who rang the minister to discuss the issue. She was on the advisory council; she knew what was going on. So to come in here and accuse, as the member for Rockingham did — Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : No, you have to be big enough and man enough to take it now. This is a test of all of you now. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the first time today. Member for Kwinana, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Leader of the Opposition, do you have a supplementary question? Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I am still — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen, I am formally going to call you to order for the first time today. You have a bit to make up, member for Girrawheen. Mr P.C. Tinley interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Willagee, just for the form, I call you to order as well. Mr C.J. BARNETT : It was Michelle Stubbs who called the minister’s office to try to persuade the minister to not reduce the maximum payment. That is clear from her letter today. The minister returned her call, later in the day, and they had a quite lengthy conversation. As I understand it, they talked about the scheme. Point number one: Michelle Stubbs contacted the minister, not the other way around. Point number two: I hope that the member for Rockingham is man enough to apologise, because Hon Robyn McSweeney did not ring Michelle Stubbs to “heavy” her, which he accused her of in this Parliament and which is on the record of this Parliament. I hope he is man enough to apologise to the minister; if not in here, when he sees her in the building. Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : The final point—by way of interjection!—is that Robyn McSweeney said, in the context of a lengthy conversation in which Michelle was extremely emotional, and understandably so, that she did use words along the lines of “let it go through to the keeper”, but that is very different from the accusation that the member for Rockingham made; namely, that the minister got on the phone and “heavied” her. The other accusation made by — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Willagee, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Midland, I formally call you to order for the second time today. I am not particularly interested in being continually on my feet formally calling members to order. It is not something that I want to do on a daily basis, let alone on a minute-by-minute basis! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I will conclude. The question had an implied accusation from the Leader of the Opposition that I and my office had in some way encouraged or got Robyn McSweeney to ring up Michelle Stubbs and “heavy” her. That was the tone of the question. I will tell the Leader of the Opposition that he might do that, the Labor Party might do that, but I do not!
Opposition member: Good question! Mr C.J. BARNETT replied: Yes, it is a good question, and I have a good answer. (1)–(3) We debated this issue this morning, and I want to restate very briefly, if I may, that the previous government, the Labor Party, allocated $90 million to this scheme. It did not cost it properly. It put out and raised an expectation that the victims of abuse under the Redress WA scheme would receive payments up to $85 000, with only two categories. When coming to government we were aware that the previous government had ignored advice that the scheme was under-costed and would probably run, at that rate, to some $200 million—and, yes, in a difficult economic environment, but, also, I think, on proper grounds, this government did reduce the maximum payment from $80 000 to $45 000. We introduced four categories; and, indeed, the payments have flowed and, as I said this morning, the vast majority of people have been assessed and have received not a compensation payment, but an ex gratia payment. The Attorney General also made clear this morning, and I will repeat what he had to say, that apart from the change to the maximum payment, this government also introduced a number of changes—changes very much to the benefit of Redress victims. There was no longer a requirement for psychological and medical assessments, as had been required by Labor. We also removed a requirement under Labor that applicants had to sign a waiver that they would not sue the government. We removed that and protected their legal right, if they chose to, to sue the government. We also introduced a payment of $5 000 for those applicants who may have died during the process. A number have, and their estate, and therefore their families and descendants, has received $5 000. Under Labor, applicants had no right of appeal at all. Labor did not allow that. We allowed a right of appeal — Ms M.M. Quirk : We didn’t need to. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Well, a number of people have appealed. So the previous government took away the right for legal action and it took away the right to appeal; and, to make sure it is correct, once a person had accepted a payment, they had to accept that that was the end of the process and they would not have an appeal. But the former government did not allow that even from the beginning. If their level of assessment, in their mind, was wrong, as may have been the case with Michelle Stubbs, those opposite denied them a right of appeal from the outset. They denied them a right of appeal; they denied them access to the law to take legal action. So I would not be too — Mr M. McGowan : You said all that this morning. Mr C.J. BARNETT : And what did the member say this morning? I will tell the member for Rockingham what he said this morning. What he — Mr W.J. Johnston : What is the answer to the question? Instead of coming in here and telling lies — The SPEAKER : Member for Cannington! Mr C.J. BARNETT : You did not even know the system. Mr R.F. JOHNSON : Mr Speaker — Withdrawal of Remark The SPEAKER : Take a seat, Premier; take a seat, Leader of the House. Member for Cannington, I request that you withdraw that comment. Mr W.J. JOHNSTON : I withdraw. Questions without Notice Resumed Mr C.J. BARNETT : Members opposite hurled accusations across the chamber. I will remember what the member for Joondalup said in particular. Mr W.J. Johnston : What did he say? Mr C.J. BARNETT : I will remember. Mr W.J. Johnston : What did he say? The SPEAKER : Member for Cannington! Mr C.J. BARNETT : I also recall very distinctly the member for Rockingham accusing Hon Robyn McSweeney of heavying—that was his expression — Mr M. McGowan : Yes. Mr C.J. BARNETT : — Michelle Stubbs. Mr M. McGowan : That’s what her letter says. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Jumping to conclusions and jumping to assertions. Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Maybe the member should listen for a little while. Hon Robyn McSweeney has professional experience, and years of experience, in dealing with children who have been abused. At least respect that. She is a professional in the area and has years of experience. Mrs M.H. Roberts : That’s why she should have known better, isn’t it? Mr C.J. BARNETT : Why do you not listen for a moment? Members opposite do not treat this seriously. Mrs M.H. Roberts : You don’t. The SPEAKER : Member for Midland, I formally call you to order for the first time today. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I just remind the house that Hon Robyn McSweeney has had years of experience in dealing with abused children. If anyone in this Parliament is sensitive to that situation, it would be her. If anyone has years of personal and professional experience in the area, it would be her—it would be Hon Robyn McSweeney—yet members opposite, and in particular the member for Rockingham, without any true knowledge of the situation, accused Hon Robyn McSweeney of ringing Michelle Stubbs and heavying her. They were the words that the member for Rockingham used. Mr M. McGowan : They were. Mr C.J. BARNETT : So I have taken the trouble, my office has taken the trouble, of being in contact with Hon Robyn McSweeney, and members opposite might be interested in the truth. “Don’t let the truth get in the way” is the Labor paradigm. But members opposite might be interested this time. Mr E.S. Ripper : I am interested. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Okay; well, why don’t you listen? I will tell you what happened. On the day — Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I will tell you what happened. On the day the announcement was made to reduce the maximum payment from $80 000 to $45 000, and the other changes that I have just outlined, Michelle Stubbs—Michelle Stubbs is a good person; I know her reasonably well—was appointed by Hon Robyn McSweeney — Mrs M.H. Roberts : Now you’re saying she’s a liar. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I have never, Mr Speaker, accused Michelle Stubbs of lying—ever—have I? I actually regard her as a friend. Never ever have I said that. You should withdraw and apologise. The SPEAKER : We have been through some of this this morning and some of you know where you are with it at this point. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I know Michelle Stubbs reasonably well. I have a great deal of respect and admiration for her. I like her as a person, and I fully recognise the incredible hardship that she suffered. No-one should doubt that, and certainly not people who know Michelle. Michelle Stubbs was appointed to the Ministerial Advisory Council on Child Protection by Hon Robyn McSweeney. They obviously had many conversations, including conversations about the Redress scheme and the like. On the day in July 2009 when the minister announced that the maximum payment would be reduced from $80 000 to $45 000 and the other changes which were outlined by the Attorney General this morning and which I have just repeated, Michelle Stubbs rang Hon Robyn McSweeney. She made contact with Hon Robyn McSweeney’s office and left a message. Hon Robyn McSweeney, the minister, dutifully returned that call and they had a lengthy conversation. Understandably, Michelle Stubbs was upset, she was emotional, and the conversation went on for some time. They know each other well. It was Michelle Stubbs who rang the minister to discuss the issue. She was on the advisory council; she knew what was going on. So to come in here and accuse, as the member for Rockingham did — Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : No, you have to be big enough and man enough to take it now. This is a test of all of you now. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the first time today. Member for Kwinana, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Leader of the Opposition, do you have a supplementary question? Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I am still — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen, I am formally going to call you to order for the first time today. You have a bit to make up, member for Girrawheen. Mr P.C. Tinley interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Willagee, just for the form, I call you to order as well. Mr C.J. BARNETT : It was Michelle Stubbs who called the minister’s office to try to persuade the minister to not reduce the maximum payment. That is clear from her letter today. The minister returned her call, later in the day, and they had a quite lengthy conversation. As I understand it, they talked about the scheme. Point number one: Michelle Stubbs contacted the minister, not the other way around. Point number two: I hope that the member for Rockingham is man enough to apologise, because Hon Robyn McSweeney did not ring Michelle Stubbs to “heavy” her, which he accused her of in this Parliament and which is on the record of this Parliament. I hope he is man enough to apologise to the minister; if not in here, when he sees her in the building. Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : The final point—by way of interjection!—is that Robyn McSweeney said, in the context of a lengthy conversation in which Michelle was extremely emotional, and understandably so, that she did use words along the lines of “let it go through to the keeper”, but that is very different from the accusation that the member for Rockingham made; namely, that the minister got on the phone and “heavied” her. The other accusation made by — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Willagee, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Midland, I formally call you to order for the second time today. I am not particularly interested in being continually on my feet formally calling members to order. It is not something that I want to do on a daily basis, let alone on a minute-by-minute basis! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I will conclude. The question had an implied accusation from the Leader of the Opposition that I and my office had in some way encouraged or got Robyn McSweeney to ring up Michelle Stubbs and “heavy” her. That was the tone of the question. I will tell the Leader of the Opposition that he might do that, the Labor Party might do that, but I do not!
Mr C.J. BARNETT replied: Yes, it is a good question, and I have a good answer. (1)–(3) We debated this issue this morning, and I want to restate very briefly, if I may, that the previous government, the Labor Party, allocated $90 million to this scheme. It did not cost it properly. It put out and raised an expectation that the victims of abuse under the Redress WA scheme would receive payments up to $85 000, with only two categories. When coming to government we were aware that the previous government had ignored advice that the scheme was under-costed and would probably run, at that rate, to some $200 million—and, yes, in a difficult economic environment, but, also, I think, on proper grounds, this government did reduce the maximum payment from $80 000 to $45 000. We introduced four categories; and, indeed, the payments have flowed and, as I said this morning, the vast majority of people have been assessed and have received not a compensation payment, but an ex gratia payment. The Attorney General also made clear this morning, and I will repeat what he had to say, that apart from the change to the maximum payment, this government also introduced a number of changes—changes very much to the benefit of Redress victims. There was no longer a requirement for psychological and medical assessments, as had been required by Labor. We also removed a requirement under Labor that applicants had to sign a waiver that they would not sue the government. We removed that and protected their legal right, if they chose to, to sue the government. We also introduced a payment of $5 000 for those applicants who may have died during the process. A number have, and their estate, and therefore their families and descendants, has received $5 000. Under Labor, applicants had no right of appeal at all. Labor did not allow that. We allowed a right of appeal — Ms M.M. Quirk : We didn’t need to. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Well, a number of people have appealed. So the previous government took away the right for legal action and it took away the right to appeal; and, to make sure it is correct, once a person had accepted a payment, they had to accept that that was the end of the process and they would not have an appeal. But the former government did not allow that even from the beginning. If their level of assessment, in their mind, was wrong, as may have been the case with Michelle Stubbs, those opposite denied them a right of appeal from the outset. They denied them a right of appeal; they denied them access to the law to take legal action. So I would not be too — Mr M. McGowan : You said all that this morning. Mr C.J. BARNETT : And what did the member say this morning? I will tell the member for Rockingham what he said this morning. What he — Mr W.J. Johnston : What is the answer to the question? Instead of coming in here and telling lies — The SPEAKER : Member for Cannington! Mr C.J. BARNETT : You did not even know the system. Mr R.F. JOHNSON : Mr Speaker — Withdrawal of Remark The SPEAKER : Take a seat, Premier; take a seat, Leader of the House. Member for Cannington, I request that you withdraw that comment. Mr W.J. JOHNSTON : I withdraw. Questions without Notice Resumed Mr C.J. BARNETT : Members opposite hurled accusations across the chamber. I will remember what the member for Joondalup said in particular. Mr W.J. Johnston : What did he say? Mr C.J. BARNETT : I will remember. Mr W.J. Johnston : What did he say? The SPEAKER : Member for Cannington! Mr C.J. BARNETT : I also recall very distinctly the member for Rockingham accusing Hon Robyn McSweeney of heavying—that was his expression — Mr M. McGowan : Yes. Mr C.J. BARNETT : — Michelle Stubbs. Mr M. McGowan : That’s what her letter says. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Jumping to conclusions and jumping to assertions. Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Maybe the member should listen for a little while. Hon Robyn McSweeney has professional experience, and years of experience, in dealing with children who have been abused. At least respect that. She is a professional in the area and has years of experience. Mrs M.H. Roberts : That’s why she should have known better, isn’t it? Mr C.J. BARNETT : Why do you not listen for a moment? Members opposite do not treat this seriously. Mrs M.H. Roberts : You don’t. The SPEAKER : Member for Midland, I formally call you to order for the first time today. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I just remind the house that Hon Robyn McSweeney has had years of experience in dealing with abused children. If anyone in this Parliament is sensitive to that situation, it would be her. If anyone has years of personal and professional experience in the area, it would be her—it would be Hon Robyn McSweeney—yet members opposite, and in particular the member for Rockingham, without any true knowledge of the situation, accused Hon Robyn McSweeney of ringing Michelle Stubbs and heavying her. They were the words that the member for Rockingham used. Mr M. McGowan : They were. Mr C.J. BARNETT : So I have taken the trouble, my office has taken the trouble, of being in contact with Hon Robyn McSweeney, and members opposite might be interested in the truth. “Don’t let the truth get in the way” is the Labor paradigm. But members opposite might be interested this time. Mr E.S. Ripper : I am interested. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Okay; well, why don’t you listen? I will tell you what happened. On the day — Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I will tell you what happened. On the day the announcement was made to reduce the maximum payment from $80 000 to $45 000, and the other changes that I have just outlined, Michelle Stubbs—Michelle Stubbs is a good person; I know her reasonably well—was appointed by Hon Robyn McSweeney — Mrs M.H. Roberts : Now you’re saying she’s a liar. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I have never, Mr Speaker, accused Michelle Stubbs of lying—ever—have I? I actually regard her as a friend. Never ever have I said that. You should withdraw and apologise. The SPEAKER : We have been through some of this this morning and some of you know where you are with it at this point. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I know Michelle Stubbs reasonably well. I have a great deal of respect and admiration for her. I like her as a person, and I fully recognise the incredible hardship that she suffered. No-one should doubt that, and certainly not people who know Michelle. Michelle Stubbs was appointed to the Ministerial Advisory Council on Child Protection by Hon Robyn McSweeney. They obviously had many conversations, including conversations about the Redress scheme and the like. On the day in July 2009 when the minister announced that the maximum payment would be reduced from $80 000 to $45 000 and the other changes which were outlined by the Attorney General this morning and which I have just repeated, Michelle Stubbs rang Hon Robyn McSweeney. She made contact with Hon Robyn McSweeney’s office and left a message. Hon Robyn McSweeney, the minister, dutifully returned that call and they had a lengthy conversation. Understandably, Michelle Stubbs was upset, she was emotional, and the conversation went on for some time. They know each other well. It was Michelle Stubbs who rang the minister to discuss the issue. She was on the advisory council; she knew what was going on. So to come in here and accuse, as the member for Rockingham did — Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : No, you have to be big enough and man enough to take it now. This is a test of all of you now. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the first time today. Member for Kwinana, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Leader of the Opposition, do you have a supplementary question? Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I am still — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen, I am formally going to call you to order for the first time today. You have a bit to make up, member for Girrawheen. Mr P.C. Tinley interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Willagee, just for the form, I call you to order as well. Mr C.J. BARNETT : It was Michelle Stubbs who called the minister’s office to try to persuade the minister to not reduce the maximum payment. That is clear from her letter today. The minister returned her call, later in the day, and they had a quite lengthy conversation. As I understand it, they talked about the scheme. Point number one: Michelle Stubbs contacted the minister, not the other way around. Point number two: I hope that the member for Rockingham is man enough to apologise, because Hon Robyn McSweeney did not ring Michelle Stubbs to “heavy” her, which he accused her of in this Parliament and which is on the record of this Parliament. I hope he is man enough to apologise to the minister; if not in here, when he sees her in the building. Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : The final point—by way of interjection!—is that Robyn McSweeney said, in the context of a lengthy conversation in which Michelle was extremely emotional, and understandably so, that she did use words along the lines of “let it go through to the keeper”, but that is very different from the accusation that the member for Rockingham made; namely, that the minister got on the phone and “heavied” her. The other accusation made by — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Willagee, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Midland, I formally call you to order for the second time today. I am not particularly interested in being continually on my feet formally calling members to order. It is not something that I want to do on a daily basis, let alone on a minute-by-minute basis! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I will conclude. The question had an implied accusation from the Leader of the Opposition that I and my office had in some way encouraged or got Robyn McSweeney to ring up Michelle Stubbs and “heavy” her. That was the tone of the question. I will tell the Leader of the Opposition that he might do that, the Labor Party might do that, but I do not!
Yes, it is a good question, and I have a good answer. (1)–(3) We debated this issue this morning, and I want to restate very briefly, if I may, that the previous government, the Labor Party, allocated $90 million to this scheme. It did not cost it properly. It put out and raised an expectation that the victims of abuse under the Redress WA scheme would receive payments up to $85 000, with only two categories. When coming to government we were aware that the previous government had ignored advice that the scheme was under-costed and would probably run, at that rate, to some $200 million—and, yes, in a difficult economic environment, but, also, I think, on proper grounds, this government did reduce the maximum payment from $80 000 to $45 000. We introduced four categories; and, indeed, the payments have flowed and, as I said this morning, the vast majority of people have been assessed and have received not a compensation payment, but an ex gratia payment. The Attorney General also made clear this morning, and I will repeat what he had to say, that apart from the change to the maximum payment, this government also introduced a number of changes—changes very much to the benefit of Redress victims. There was no longer a requirement for psychological and medical assessments, as had been required by Labor. We also removed a requirement under Labor that applicants had to sign a waiver that they would not sue the government. We removed that and protected their legal right, if they chose to, to sue the government. We also introduced a payment of $5 000 for those applicants who may have died during the process. A number have, and their estate, and therefore their families and descendants, has received $5 000. Under Labor, applicants had no right of appeal at all. Labor did not allow that. We allowed a right of appeal — Ms M.M. Quirk : We didn’t need to. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Well, a number of people have appealed. So the previous government took away the right for legal action and it took away the right to appeal; and, to make sure it is correct, once a person had accepted a payment, they had to accept that that was the end of the process and they would not have an appeal. But the former government did not allow that even from the beginning. If their level of assessment, in their mind, was wrong, as may have been the case with Michelle Stubbs, those opposite denied them a right of appeal from the outset. They denied them a right of appeal; they denied them access to the law to take legal action. So I would not be too — Mr M. McGowan : You said all that this morning. Mr C.J. BARNETT : And what did the member say this morning? I will tell the member for Rockingham what he said this morning. What he — Mr W.J. Johnston : What is the answer to the question? Instead of coming in here and telling lies — The SPEAKER : Member for Cannington! Mr C.J. BARNETT : You did not even know the system. Mr R.F. JOHNSON : Mr Speaker — Withdrawal of Remark The SPEAKER : Take a seat, Premier; take a seat, Leader of the House. Member for Cannington, I request that you withdraw that comment. Mr W.J. JOHNSTON : I withdraw. Questions without Notice Resumed Mr C.J. BARNETT : Members opposite hurled accusations across the chamber. I will remember what the member for Joondalup said in particular. Mr W.J. Johnston : What did he say? Mr C.J. BARNETT : I will remember. Mr W.J. Johnston : What did he say? The SPEAKER : Member for Cannington! Mr C.J. BARNETT : I also recall very distinctly the member for Rockingham accusing Hon Robyn McSweeney of heavying—that was his expression — Mr M. McGowan : Yes. Mr C.J. BARNETT : — Michelle Stubbs. Mr M. McGowan : That’s what her letter says. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Jumping to conclusions and jumping to assertions. Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Maybe the member should listen for a little while. Hon Robyn McSweeney has professional experience, and years of experience, in dealing with children who have been abused. At least respect that. She is a professional in the area and has years of experience. Mrs M.H. Roberts : That’s why she should have known better, isn’t it? Mr C.J. BARNETT : Why do you not listen for a moment? Members opposite do not treat this seriously. Mrs M.H. Roberts : You don’t. The SPEAKER : Member for Midland, I formally call you to order for the first time today. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I just remind the house that Hon Robyn McSweeney has had years of experience in dealing with abused children. If anyone in this Parliament is sensitive to that situation, it would be her. If anyone has years of personal and professional experience in the area, it would be her—it would be Hon Robyn McSweeney—yet members opposite, and in particular the member for Rockingham, without any true knowledge of the situation, accused Hon Robyn McSweeney of ringing Michelle Stubbs and heavying her. They were the words that the member for Rockingham used. Mr M. McGowan : They were. Mr C.J. BARNETT : So I have taken the trouble, my office has taken the trouble, of being in contact with Hon Robyn McSweeney, and members opposite might be interested in the truth. “Don’t let the truth get in the way” is the Labor paradigm. But members opposite might be interested this time. Mr E.S. Ripper : I am interested. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Okay; well, why don’t you listen? I will tell you what happened. On the day — Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I will tell you what happened. On the day the announcement was made to reduce the maximum payment from $80 000 to $45 000, and the other changes that I have just outlined, Michelle Stubbs—Michelle Stubbs is a good person; I know her reasonably well—was appointed by Hon Robyn McSweeney — Mrs M.H. Roberts : Now you’re saying she’s a liar. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I have never, Mr Speaker, accused Michelle Stubbs of lying—ever—have I? I actually regard her as a friend. Never ever have I said that. You should withdraw and apologise. The SPEAKER : We have been through some of this this morning and some of you know where you are with it at this point. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I know Michelle Stubbs reasonably well. I have a great deal of respect and admiration for her. I like her as a person, and I fully recognise the incredible hardship that she suffered. No-one should doubt that, and certainly not people who know Michelle. Michelle Stubbs was appointed to the Ministerial Advisory Council on Child Protection by Hon Robyn McSweeney. They obviously had many conversations, including conversations about the Redress scheme and the like. On the day in July 2009 when the minister announced that the maximum payment would be reduced from $80 000 to $45 000 and the other changes which were outlined by the Attorney General this morning and which I have just repeated, Michelle Stubbs rang Hon Robyn McSweeney. She made contact with Hon Robyn McSweeney’s office and left a message. Hon Robyn McSweeney, the minister, dutifully returned that call and they had a lengthy conversation. Understandably, Michelle Stubbs was upset, she was emotional, and the conversation went on for some time. They know each other well. It was Michelle Stubbs who rang the minister to discuss the issue. She was on the advisory council; she knew what was going on. So to come in here and accuse, as the member for Rockingham did — Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : No, you have to be big enough and man enough to take it now. This is a test of all of you now. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the first time today. Member for Kwinana, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Leader of the Opposition, do you have a supplementary question? Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I am still — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen, I am formally going to call you to order for the first time today. You have a bit to make up, member for Girrawheen. Mr P.C. Tinley interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Willagee, just for the form, I call you to order as well. Mr C.J. BARNETT : It was Michelle Stubbs who called the minister’s office to try to persuade the minister to not reduce the maximum payment. That is clear from her letter today. The minister returned her call, later in the day, and they had a quite lengthy conversation. As I understand it, they talked about the scheme. Point number one: Michelle Stubbs contacted the minister, not the other way around. Point number two: I hope that the member for Rockingham is man enough to apologise, because Hon Robyn McSweeney did not ring Michelle Stubbs to “heavy” her, which he accused her of in this Parliament and which is on the record of this Parliament. I hope he is man enough to apologise to the minister; if not in here, when he sees her in the building. Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : The final point—by way of interjection!—is that Robyn McSweeney said, in the context of a lengthy conversation in which Michelle was extremely emotional, and understandably so, that she did use words along the lines of “let it go through to the keeper”, but that is very different from the accusation that the member for Rockingham made; namely, that the minister got on the phone and “heavied” her. The other accusation made by — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Willagee, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Midland, I formally call you to order for the second time today. I am not particularly interested in being continually on my feet formally calling members to order. It is not something that I want to do on a daily basis, let alone on a minute-by-minute basis! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I will conclude. The question had an implied accusation from the Leader of the Opposition that I and my office had in some way encouraged or got Robyn McSweeney to ring up Michelle Stubbs and “heavy” her. That was the tone of the question. I will tell the Leader of the Opposition that he might do that, the Labor Party might do that, but I do not!
(1)–(3) We debated this issue this morning, and I want to restate very briefly, if I may, that the previous government, the Labor Party, allocated $90 million to this scheme. It did not cost it properly. It put out and raised an expectation that the victims of abuse under the Redress WA scheme would receive payments up to $85 000, with only two categories. When coming to government we were aware that the previous government had ignored advice that the scheme was under-costed and would probably run, at that rate, to some $200 million—and, yes, in a difficult economic environment, but, also, I think, on proper grounds, this government did reduce the maximum payment from $80 000 to $45 000. We introduced four categories; and, indeed, the payments have flowed and, as I said this morning, the vast majority of people have been assessed and have received not a compensation payment, but an ex gratia payment. The Attorney General also made clear this morning, and I will repeat what he had to say, that apart from the change to the maximum payment, this government also introduced a number of changes—changes very much to the benefit of Redress victims. There was no longer a requirement for psychological and medical assessments, as had been required by Labor. We also removed a requirement under Labor that applicants had to sign a waiver that they would not sue the government. We removed that and protected their legal right, if they chose to, to sue the government. We also introduced a payment of $5 000 for those applicants who may have died during the process. A number have, and their estate, and therefore their families and descendants, has received $5 000. Under Labor, applicants had no right of appeal at all. Labor did not allow that. We allowed a right of appeal — Ms M.M. Quirk : We didn’t need to. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Well, a number of people have appealed. So the previous government took away the right for legal action and it took away the right to appeal; and, to make sure it is correct, once a person had accepted a payment, they had to accept that that was the end of the process and they would not have an appeal. But the former government did not allow that even from the beginning. If their level of assessment, in their mind, was wrong, as may have been the case with Michelle Stubbs, those opposite denied them a right of appeal from the outset. They denied them a right of appeal; they denied them access to the law to take legal action. So I would not be too — Mr M. McGowan : You said all that this morning. Mr C.J. BARNETT : And what did the member say this morning? I will tell the member for Rockingham what he said this morning. What he — Mr W.J. Johnston : What is the answer to the question? Instead of coming in here and telling lies — The SPEAKER : Member for Cannington! Mr C.J. BARNETT : You did not even know the system. Mr R.F. JOHNSON : Mr Speaker — Withdrawal of Remark The SPEAKER : Take a seat, Premier; take a seat, Leader of the House. Member for Cannington, I request that you withdraw that comment. Mr W.J. JOHNSTON : I withdraw. Questions without Notice Resumed Mr C.J. BARNETT : Members opposite hurled accusations across the chamber. I will remember what the member for Joondalup said in particular. Mr W.J. Johnston : What did he say? Mr C.J. BARNETT : I will remember. Mr W.J. Johnston : What did he say? The SPEAKER : Member for Cannington! Mr C.J. BARNETT : I also recall very distinctly the member for Rockingham accusing Hon Robyn McSweeney of heavying—that was his expression — Mr M. McGowan : Yes. Mr C.J. BARNETT : — Michelle Stubbs. Mr M. McGowan : That’s what her letter says. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Jumping to conclusions and jumping to assertions. Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Maybe the member should listen for a little while. Hon Robyn McSweeney has professional experience, and years of experience, in dealing with children who have been abused. At least respect that. She is a professional in the area and has years of experience. Mrs M.H. Roberts : That’s why she should have known better, isn’t it? Mr C.J. BARNETT : Why do you not listen for a moment? Members opposite do not treat this seriously. Mrs M.H. Roberts : You don’t. The SPEAKER : Member for Midland, I formally call you to order for the first time today. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I just remind the house that Hon Robyn McSweeney has had years of experience in dealing with abused children. If anyone in this Parliament is sensitive to that situation, it would be her. If anyone has years of personal and professional experience in the area, it would be her—it would be Hon Robyn McSweeney—yet members opposite, and in particular the member for Rockingham, without any true knowledge of the situation, accused Hon Robyn McSweeney of ringing Michelle Stubbs and heavying her. They were the words that the member for Rockingham used. Mr M. McGowan : They were. Mr C.J. BARNETT : So I have taken the trouble, my office has taken the trouble, of being in contact with Hon Robyn McSweeney, and members opposite might be interested in the truth. “Don’t let the truth get in the way” is the Labor paradigm. But members opposite might be interested this time. Mr E.S. Ripper : I am interested. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Okay; well, why don’t you listen? I will tell you what happened. On the day — Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I will tell you what happened. On the day the announcement was made to reduce the maximum payment from $80 000 to $45 000, and the other changes that I have just outlined, Michelle Stubbs—Michelle Stubbs is a good person; I know her reasonably well—was appointed by Hon Robyn McSweeney — Mrs M.H. Roberts : Now you’re saying she’s a liar. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I have never, Mr Speaker, accused Michelle Stubbs of lying—ever—have I? I actually regard her as a friend. Never ever have I said that. You should withdraw and apologise. The SPEAKER : We have been through some of this this morning and some of you know where you are with it at this point. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I know Michelle Stubbs reasonably well. I have a great deal of respect and admiration for her. I like her as a person, and I fully recognise the incredible hardship that she suffered. No-one should doubt that, and certainly not people who know Michelle. Michelle Stubbs was appointed to the Ministerial Advisory Council on Child Protection by Hon Robyn McSweeney. They obviously had many conversations, including conversations about the Redress scheme and the like. On the day in July 2009 when the minister announced that the maximum payment would be reduced from $80 000 to $45 000 and the other changes which were outlined by the Attorney General this morning and which I have just repeated, Michelle Stubbs rang Hon Robyn McSweeney. She made contact with Hon Robyn McSweeney’s office and left a message. Hon Robyn McSweeney, the minister, dutifully returned that call and they had a lengthy conversation. Understandably, Michelle Stubbs was upset, she was emotional, and the conversation went on for some time. They know each other well. It was Michelle Stubbs who rang the minister to discuss the issue. She was on the advisory council; she knew what was going on. So to come in here and accuse, as the member for Rockingham did — Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : No, you have to be big enough and man enough to take it now. This is a test of all of you now. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the first time today. Member for Kwinana, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Leader of the Opposition, do you have a supplementary question? Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I am still — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen, I am formally going to call you to order for the first time today. You have a bit to make up, member for Girrawheen. Mr P.C. Tinley interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Willagee, just for the form, I call you to order as well. Mr C.J. BARNETT : It was Michelle Stubbs who called the minister’s office to try to persuade the minister to not reduce the maximum payment. That is clear from her letter today. The minister returned her call, later in the day, and they had a quite lengthy conversation. As I understand it, they talked about the scheme. Point number one: Michelle Stubbs contacted the minister, not the other way around. Point number two: I hope that the member for Rockingham is man enough to apologise, because Hon Robyn McSweeney did not ring Michelle Stubbs to “heavy” her, which he accused her of in this Parliament and which is on the record of this Parliament. I hope he is man enough to apologise to the minister; if not in here, when he sees her in the building. Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : The final point—by way of interjection!—is that Robyn McSweeney said, in the context of a lengthy conversation in which Michelle was extremely emotional, and understandably so, that she did use words along the lines of “let it go through to the keeper”, but that is very different from the accusation that the member for Rockingham made; namely, that the minister got on the phone and “heavied” her. The other accusation made by — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Willagee, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Midland, I formally call you to order for the second time today. I am not particularly interested in being continually on my feet formally calling members to order. It is not something that I want to do on a daily basis, let alone on a minute-by-minute basis! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I will conclude. The question had an implied accusation from the Leader of the Opposition that I and my office had in some way encouraged or got Robyn McSweeney to ring up Michelle Stubbs and “heavy” her. That was the tone of the question. I will tell the Leader of the Opposition that he might do that, the Labor Party might do that, but I do not!
The Attorney General also made clear this morning, and I will repeat what he had to say, that apart from the change to the maximum payment, this government also introduced a number of changes—changes very much to the benefit of Redress victims. There was no longer a requirement for psychological and medical assessments, as had been required by Labor. We also removed a requirement under Labor that applicants had to sign a waiver that they would not sue the government. We removed that and protected their legal right, if they chose to, to sue the government. We also introduced a payment of $5 000 for those applicants who may have died during the process. A number have, and their estate, and therefore their families and descendants, has received $5 000. Under Labor, applicants had no right of appeal at all. Labor did not allow that. We allowed a right of appeal — Ms M.M. Quirk : We didn’t need to. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Well, a number of people have appealed. So the previous government took away the right for legal action and it took away the right to appeal; and, to make sure it is correct, once a person had accepted a payment, they had to accept that that was the end of the process and they would not have an appeal. But the former government did not allow that even from the beginning. If their level of assessment, in their mind, was wrong, as may have been the case with Michelle Stubbs, those opposite denied them a right of appeal from the outset. They denied them a right of appeal; they denied them access to the law to take legal action. So I would not be too — Mr M. McGowan : You said all that this morning. Mr C.J. BARNETT : And what did the member say this morning? I will tell the member for Rockingham what he said this morning. What he — Mr W.J. Johnston : What is the answer to the question? Instead of coming in here and telling lies — The SPEAKER : Member for Cannington! Mr C.J. BARNETT : You did not even know the system. Mr R.F. JOHNSON : Mr Speaker — Withdrawal of Remark The SPEAKER : Take a seat, Premier; take a seat, Leader of the House. Member for Cannington, I request that you withdraw that comment. Mr W.J. JOHNSTON : I withdraw. Questions without Notice Resumed Mr C.J. BARNETT : Members opposite hurled accusations across the chamber. I will remember what the member for Joondalup said in particular. Mr W.J. Johnston : What did he say? Mr C.J. BARNETT : I will remember. Mr W.J. Johnston : What did he say? The SPEAKER : Member for Cannington! Mr C.J. BARNETT : I also recall very distinctly the member for Rockingham accusing Hon Robyn McSweeney of heavying—that was his expression — Mr M. McGowan : Yes. Mr C.J. BARNETT : — Michelle Stubbs. Mr M. McGowan : That’s what her letter says. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Jumping to conclusions and jumping to assertions. Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Maybe the member should listen for a little while. Hon Robyn McSweeney has professional experience, and years of experience, in dealing with children who have been abused. At least respect that. She is a professional in the area and has years of experience. Mrs M.H. Roberts : That’s why she should have known better, isn’t it? Mr C.J. BARNETT : Why do you not listen for a moment? Members opposite do not treat this seriously. Mrs M.H. Roberts : You don’t. The SPEAKER : Member for Midland, I formally call you to order for the first time today. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I just remind the house that Hon Robyn McSweeney has had years of experience in dealing with abused children. If anyone in this Parliament is sensitive to that situation, it would be her. If anyone has years of personal and professional experience in the area, it would be her—it would be Hon Robyn McSweeney—yet members opposite, and in particular the member for Rockingham, without any true knowledge of the situation, accused Hon Robyn McSweeney of ringing Michelle Stubbs and heavying her. They were the words that the member for Rockingham used. Mr M. McGowan : They were. Mr C.J. BARNETT : So I have taken the trouble, my office has taken the trouble, of being in contact with Hon Robyn McSweeney, and members opposite might be interested in the truth. “Don’t let the truth get in the way” is the Labor paradigm. But members opposite might be interested this time. Mr E.S. Ripper : I am interested. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Okay; well, why don’t you listen? I will tell you what happened. On the day — Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I will tell you what happened. On the day the announcement was made to reduce the maximum payment from $80 000 to $45 000, and the other changes that I have just outlined, Michelle Stubbs—Michelle Stubbs is a good person; I know her reasonably well—was appointed by Hon Robyn McSweeney — Mrs M.H. Roberts : Now you’re saying she’s a liar. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I have never, Mr Speaker, accused Michelle Stubbs of lying—ever—have I? I actually regard her as a friend. Never ever have I said that. You should withdraw and apologise. The SPEAKER : We have been through some of this this morning and some of you know where you are with it at this point. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I know Michelle Stubbs reasonably well. I have a great deal of respect and admiration for her. I like her as a person, and I fully recognise the incredible hardship that she suffered. No-one should doubt that, and certainly not people who know Michelle. Michelle Stubbs was appointed to the Ministerial Advisory Council on Child Protection by Hon Robyn McSweeney. They obviously had many conversations, including conversations about the Redress scheme and the like. On the day in July 2009 when the minister announced that the maximum payment would be reduced from $80 000 to $45 000 and the other changes which were outlined by the Attorney General this morning and which I have just repeated, Michelle Stubbs rang Hon Robyn McSweeney. She made contact with Hon Robyn McSweeney’s office and left a message. Hon Robyn McSweeney, the minister, dutifully returned that call and they had a lengthy conversation. Understandably, Michelle Stubbs was upset, she was emotional, and the conversation went on for some time. They know each other well. It was Michelle Stubbs who rang the minister to discuss the issue. She was on the advisory council; she knew what was going on. So to come in here and accuse, as the member for Rockingham did — Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : No, you have to be big enough and man enough to take it now. This is a test of all of you now. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the first time today. Member for Kwinana, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Leader of the Opposition, do you have a supplementary question? Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I am still — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen, I am formally going to call you to order for the first time today. You have a bit to make up, member for Girrawheen. Mr P.C. Tinley interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Willagee, just for the form, I call you to order as well. Mr C.J. BARNETT : It was Michelle Stubbs who called the minister’s office to try to persuade the minister to not reduce the maximum payment. That is clear from her letter today. The minister returned her call, later in the day, and they had a quite lengthy conversation. As I understand it, they talked about the scheme. Point number one: Michelle Stubbs contacted the minister, not the other way around. Point number two: I hope that the member for Rockingham is man enough to apologise, because Hon Robyn McSweeney did not ring Michelle Stubbs to “heavy” her, which he accused her of in this Parliament and which is on the record of this Parliament. I hope he is man enough to apologise to the minister; if not in here, when he sees her in the building. Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : The final point—by way of interjection!—is that Robyn McSweeney said, in the context of a lengthy conversation in which Michelle was extremely emotional, and understandably so, that she did use words along the lines of “let it go through to the keeper”, but that is very different from the accusation that the member for Rockingham made; namely, that the minister got on the phone and “heavied” her. The other accusation made by — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Willagee, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Midland, I formally call you to order for the second time today. I am not particularly interested in being continually on my feet formally calling members to order. It is not something that I want to do on a daily basis, let alone on a minute-by-minute basis! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I will conclude. The question had an implied accusation from the Leader of the Opposition that I and my office had in some way encouraged or got Robyn McSweeney to ring up Michelle Stubbs and “heavy” her. That was the tone of the question. I will tell the Leader of the Opposition that he might do that, the Labor Party might do that, but I do not!
Under Labor, applicants had no right of appeal at all. Labor did not allow that. We allowed a right of appeal — Ms M.M. Quirk : We didn’t need to. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Well, a number of people have appealed. So the previous government took away the right for legal action and it took away the right to appeal; and, to make sure it is correct, once a person had accepted a payment, they had to accept that that was the end of the process and they would not have an appeal. But the former government did not allow that even from the beginning. If their level of assessment, in their mind, was wrong, as may have been the case with Michelle Stubbs, those opposite denied them a right of appeal from the outset. They denied them a right of appeal; they denied them access to the law to take legal action. So I would not be too — Mr M. McGowan : You said all that this morning. Mr C.J. BARNETT : And what did the member say this morning? I will tell the member for Rockingham what he said this morning. What he — Mr W.J. Johnston : What is the answer to the question? Instead of coming in here and telling lies — The SPEAKER : Member for Cannington! Mr C.J. BARNETT : You did not even know the system. Mr R.F. JOHNSON : Mr Speaker — Withdrawal of Remark The SPEAKER : Take a seat, Premier; take a seat, Leader of the House. Member for Cannington, I request that you withdraw that comment. Mr W.J. JOHNSTON : I withdraw. Questions without Notice Resumed Mr C.J. BARNETT : Members opposite hurled accusations across the chamber. I will remember what the member for Joondalup said in particular. Mr W.J. Johnston : What did he say? Mr C.J. BARNETT : I will remember. Mr W.J. Johnston : What did he say? The SPEAKER : Member for Cannington! Mr C.J. BARNETT : I also recall very distinctly the member for Rockingham accusing Hon Robyn McSweeney of heavying—that was his expression — Mr M. McGowan : Yes. Mr C.J. BARNETT : — Michelle Stubbs. Mr M. McGowan : That’s what her letter says. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Jumping to conclusions and jumping to assertions. Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Maybe the member should listen for a little while. Hon Robyn McSweeney has professional experience, and years of experience, in dealing with children who have been abused. At least respect that. She is a professional in the area and has years of experience. Mrs M.H. Roberts : That’s why she should have known better, isn’t it? Mr C.J. BARNETT : Why do you not listen for a moment? Members opposite do not treat this seriously. Mrs M.H. Roberts : You don’t. The SPEAKER : Member for Midland, I formally call you to order for the first time today. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I just remind the house that Hon Robyn McSweeney has had years of experience in dealing with abused children. If anyone in this Parliament is sensitive to that situation, it would be her. If anyone has years of personal and professional experience in the area, it would be her—it would be Hon Robyn McSweeney—yet members opposite, and in particular the member for Rockingham, without any true knowledge of the situation, accused Hon Robyn McSweeney of ringing Michelle Stubbs and heavying her. They were the words that the member for Rockingham used. Mr M. McGowan : They were. Mr C.J. BARNETT : So I have taken the trouble, my office has taken the trouble, of being in contact with Hon Robyn McSweeney, and members opposite might be interested in the truth. “Don’t let the truth get in the way” is the Labor paradigm. But members opposite might be interested this time. Mr E.S. Ripper : I am interested. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Okay; well, why don’t you listen? I will tell you what happened. On the day — Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I will tell you what happened. On the day the announcement was made to reduce the maximum payment from $80 000 to $45 000, and the other changes that I have just outlined, Michelle Stubbs—Michelle Stubbs is a good person; I know her reasonably well—was appointed by Hon Robyn McSweeney — Mrs M.H. Roberts : Now you’re saying she’s a liar. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I have never, Mr Speaker, accused Michelle Stubbs of lying—ever—have I? I actually regard her as a friend. Never ever have I said that. You should withdraw and apologise. The SPEAKER : We have been through some of this this morning and some of you know where you are with it at this point. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I know Michelle Stubbs reasonably well. I have a great deal of respect and admiration for her. I like her as a person, and I fully recognise the incredible hardship that she suffered. No-one should doubt that, and certainly not people who know Michelle. Michelle Stubbs was appointed to the Ministerial Advisory Council on Child Protection by Hon Robyn McSweeney. They obviously had many conversations, including conversations about the Redress scheme and the like. On the day in July 2009 when the minister announced that the maximum payment would be reduced from $80 000 to $45 000 and the other changes which were outlined by the Attorney General this morning and which I have just repeated, Michelle Stubbs rang Hon Robyn McSweeney. She made contact with Hon Robyn McSweeney’s office and left a message. Hon Robyn McSweeney, the minister, dutifully returned that call and they had a lengthy conversation. Understandably, Michelle Stubbs was upset, she was emotional, and the conversation went on for some time. They know each other well. It was Michelle Stubbs who rang the minister to discuss the issue. She was on the advisory council; she knew what was going on. So to come in here and accuse, as the member for Rockingham did — Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : No, you have to be big enough and man enough to take it now. This is a test of all of you now. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the first time today. Member for Kwinana, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Leader of the Opposition, do you have a supplementary question? Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I am still — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen, I am formally going to call you to order for the first time today. You have a bit to make up, member for Girrawheen. Mr P.C. Tinley interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Willagee, just for the form, I call you to order as well. Mr C.J. BARNETT : It was Michelle Stubbs who called the minister’s office to try to persuade the minister to not reduce the maximum payment. That is clear from her letter today. The minister returned her call, later in the day, and they had a quite lengthy conversation. As I understand it, they talked about the scheme. Point number one: Michelle Stubbs contacted the minister, not the other way around. Point number two: I hope that the member for Rockingham is man enough to apologise, because Hon Robyn McSweeney did not ring Michelle Stubbs to “heavy” her, which he accused her of in this Parliament and which is on the record of this Parliament. I hope he is man enough to apologise to the minister; if not in here, when he sees her in the building. Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : The final point—by way of interjection!—is that Robyn McSweeney said, in the context of a lengthy conversation in which Michelle was extremely emotional, and understandably so, that she did use words along the lines of “let it go through to the keeper”, but that is very different from the accusation that the member for Rockingham made; namely, that the minister got on the phone and “heavied” her. The other accusation made by — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Willagee, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Midland, I formally call you to order for the second time today. I am not particularly interested in being continually on my feet formally calling members to order. It is not something that I want to do on a daily basis, let alone on a minute-by-minute basis! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I will conclude. The question had an implied accusation from the Leader of the Opposition that I and my office had in some way encouraged or got Robyn McSweeney to ring up Michelle Stubbs and “heavy” her. That was the tone of the question. I will tell the Leader of the Opposition that he might do that, the Labor Party might do that, but I do not!
Ms M.M. Quirk : We didn’t need to. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Well, a number of people have appealed. So the previous government took away the right for legal action and it took away the right to appeal; and, to make sure it is correct, once a person had accepted a payment, they had to accept that that was the end of the process and they would not have an appeal. But the former government did not allow that even from the beginning. If their level of assessment, in their mind, was wrong, as may have been the case with Michelle Stubbs, those opposite denied them a right of appeal from the outset. They denied them a right of appeal; they denied them access to the law to take legal action. So I would not be too — Mr M. McGowan : You said all that this morning. Mr C.J. BARNETT : And what did the member say this morning? I will tell the member for Rockingham what he said this morning. What he — Mr W.J. Johnston : What is the answer to the question? Instead of coming in here and telling lies — The SPEAKER : Member for Cannington! Mr C.J. BARNETT : You did not even know the system. Mr R.F. JOHNSON : Mr Speaker — Withdrawal of Remark The SPEAKER : Take a seat, Premier; take a seat, Leader of the House. Member for Cannington, I request that you withdraw that comment. Mr W.J. JOHNSTON : I withdraw. Questions without Notice Resumed Mr C.J. BARNETT : Members opposite hurled accusations across the chamber. I will remember what the member for Joondalup said in particular. Mr W.J. Johnston : What did he say? Mr C.J. BARNETT : I will remember. Mr W.J. Johnston : What did he say? The SPEAKER : Member for Cannington! Mr C.J. BARNETT : I also recall very distinctly the member for Rockingham accusing Hon Robyn McSweeney of heavying—that was his expression — Mr M. McGowan : Yes. Mr C.J. BARNETT : — Michelle Stubbs. Mr M. McGowan : That’s what her letter says. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Jumping to conclusions and jumping to assertions. Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Maybe the member should listen for a little while. Hon Robyn McSweeney has professional experience, and years of experience, in dealing with children who have been abused. At least respect that. She is a professional in the area and has years of experience. Mrs M.H. Roberts : That’s why she should have known better, isn’t it? Mr C.J. BARNETT : Why do you not listen for a moment? Members opposite do not treat this seriously. Mrs M.H. Roberts : You don’t. The SPEAKER : Member for Midland, I formally call you to order for the first time today. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I just remind the house that Hon Robyn McSweeney has had years of experience in dealing with abused children. If anyone in this Parliament is sensitive to that situation, it would be her. If anyone has years of personal and professional experience in the area, it would be her—it would be Hon Robyn McSweeney—yet members opposite, and in particular the member for Rockingham, without any true knowledge of the situation, accused Hon Robyn McSweeney of ringing Michelle Stubbs and heavying her. They were the words that the member for Rockingham used. Mr M. McGowan : They were. Mr C.J. BARNETT : So I have taken the trouble, my office has taken the trouble, of being in contact with Hon Robyn McSweeney, and members opposite might be interested in the truth. “Don’t let the truth get in the way” is the Labor paradigm. But members opposite might be interested this time. Mr E.S. Ripper : I am interested. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Okay; well, why don’t you listen? I will tell you what happened. On the day — Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I will tell you what happened. On the day the announcement was made to reduce the maximum payment from $80 000 to $45 000, and the other changes that I have just outlined, Michelle Stubbs—Michelle Stubbs is a good person; I know her reasonably well—was appointed by Hon Robyn McSweeney — Mrs M.H. Roberts : Now you’re saying she’s a liar. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I have never, Mr Speaker, accused Michelle Stubbs of lying—ever—have I? I actually regard her as a friend. Never ever have I said that. You should withdraw and apologise. The SPEAKER : We have been through some of this this morning and some of you know where you are with it at this point. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I know Michelle Stubbs reasonably well. I have a great deal of respect and admiration for her. I like her as a person, and I fully recognise the incredible hardship that she suffered. No-one should doubt that, and certainly not people who know Michelle. Michelle Stubbs was appointed to the Ministerial Advisory Council on Child Protection by Hon Robyn McSweeney. They obviously had many conversations, including conversations about the Redress scheme and the like. On the day in July 2009 when the minister announced that the maximum payment would be reduced from $80 000 to $45 000 and the other changes which were outlined by the Attorney General this morning and which I have just repeated, Michelle Stubbs rang Hon Robyn McSweeney. She made contact with Hon Robyn McSweeney’s office and left a message. Hon Robyn McSweeney, the minister, dutifully returned that call and they had a lengthy conversation. Understandably, Michelle Stubbs was upset, she was emotional, and the conversation went on for some time. They know each other well. It was Michelle Stubbs who rang the minister to discuss the issue. She was on the advisory council; she knew what was going on. So to come in here and accuse, as the member for Rockingham did — Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : No, you have to be big enough and man enough to take it now. This is a test of all of you now. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the first time today. Member for Kwinana, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Leader of the Opposition, do you have a supplementary question? Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I am still — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen, I am formally going to call you to order for the first time today. You have a bit to make up, member for Girrawheen. Mr P.C. Tinley interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Willagee, just for the form, I call you to order as well. Mr C.J. BARNETT : It was Michelle Stubbs who called the minister’s office to try to persuade the minister to not reduce the maximum payment. That is clear from her letter today. The minister returned her call, later in the day, and they had a quite lengthy conversation. As I understand it, they talked about the scheme. Point number one: Michelle Stubbs contacted the minister, not the other way around. Point number two: I hope that the member for Rockingham is man enough to apologise, because Hon Robyn McSweeney did not ring Michelle Stubbs to “heavy” her, which he accused her of in this Parliament and which is on the record of this Parliament. I hope he is man enough to apologise to the minister; if not in here, when he sees her in the building. Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : The final point—by way of interjection!—is that Robyn McSweeney said, in the context of a lengthy conversation in which Michelle was extremely emotional, and understandably so, that she did use words along the lines of “let it go through to the keeper”, but that is very different from the accusation that the member for Rockingham made; namely, that the minister got on the phone and “heavied” her. The other accusation made by — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Willagee, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Midland, I formally call you to order for the second time today. I am not particularly interested in being continually on my feet formally calling members to order. It is not something that I want to do on a daily basis, let alone on a minute-by-minute basis! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I will conclude. The question had an implied accusation from the Leader of the Opposition that I and my office had in some way encouraged or got Robyn McSweeney to ring up Michelle Stubbs and “heavy” her. That was the tone of the question. I will tell the Leader of the Opposition that he might do that, the Labor Party might do that, but I do not!
Mr C.J. BARNETT : Well, a number of people have appealed. So the previous government took away the right for legal action and it took away the right to appeal; and, to make sure it is correct, once a person had accepted a payment, they had to accept that that was the end of the process and they would not have an appeal. But the former government did not allow that even from the beginning. If their level of assessment, in their mind, was wrong, as may have been the case with Michelle Stubbs, those opposite denied them a right of appeal from the outset. They denied them a right of appeal; they denied them access to the law to take legal action. So I would not be too — Mr M. McGowan : You said all that this morning. Mr C.J. BARNETT : And what did the member say this morning? I will tell the member for Rockingham what he said this morning. What he — Mr W.J. Johnston : What is the answer to the question? Instead of coming in here and telling lies — The SPEAKER : Member for Cannington! Mr C.J. BARNETT : You did not even know the system. Mr R.F. JOHNSON : Mr Speaker — Withdrawal of Remark The SPEAKER : Take a seat, Premier; take a seat, Leader of the House. Member for Cannington, I request that you withdraw that comment. Mr W.J. JOHNSTON : I withdraw. Questions without Notice Resumed Mr C.J. BARNETT : Members opposite hurled accusations across the chamber. I will remember what the member for Joondalup said in particular. Mr W.J. Johnston : What did he say? Mr C.J. BARNETT : I will remember. Mr W.J. Johnston : What did he say? The SPEAKER : Member for Cannington! Mr C.J. BARNETT : I also recall very distinctly the member for Rockingham accusing Hon Robyn McSweeney of heavying—that was his expression — Mr M. McGowan : Yes. Mr C.J. BARNETT : — Michelle Stubbs. Mr M. McGowan : That’s what her letter says. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Jumping to conclusions and jumping to assertions. Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Maybe the member should listen for a little while. Hon Robyn McSweeney has professional experience, and years of experience, in dealing with children who have been abused. At least respect that. She is a professional in the area and has years of experience. Mrs M.H. Roberts : That’s why she should have known better, isn’t it? Mr C.J. BARNETT : Why do you not listen for a moment? Members opposite do not treat this seriously. Mrs M.H. Roberts : You don’t. The SPEAKER : Member for Midland, I formally call you to order for the first time today. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I just remind the house that Hon Robyn McSweeney has had years of experience in dealing with abused children. If anyone in this Parliament is sensitive to that situation, it would be her. If anyone has years of personal and professional experience in the area, it would be her—it would be Hon Robyn McSweeney—yet members opposite, and in particular the member for Rockingham, without any true knowledge of the situation, accused Hon Robyn McSweeney of ringing Michelle Stubbs and heavying her. They were the words that the member for Rockingham used. Mr M. McGowan : They were. Mr C.J. BARNETT : So I have taken the trouble, my office has taken the trouble, of being in contact with Hon Robyn McSweeney, and members opposite might be interested in the truth. “Don’t let the truth get in the way” is the Labor paradigm. But members opposite might be interested this time. Mr E.S. Ripper : I am interested. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Okay; well, why don’t you listen? I will tell you what happened. On the day — Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I will tell you what happened. On the day the announcement was made to reduce the maximum payment from $80 000 to $45 000, and the other changes that I have just outlined, Michelle Stubbs—Michelle Stubbs is a good person; I know her reasonably well—was appointed by Hon Robyn McSweeney — Mrs M.H. Roberts : Now you’re saying she’s a liar. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I have never, Mr Speaker, accused Michelle Stubbs of lying—ever—have I? I actually regard her as a friend. Never ever have I said that. You should withdraw and apologise. The SPEAKER : We have been through some of this this morning and some of you know where you are with it at this point. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I know Michelle Stubbs reasonably well. I have a great deal of respect and admiration for her. I like her as a person, and I fully recognise the incredible hardship that she suffered. No-one should doubt that, and certainly not people who know Michelle. Michelle Stubbs was appointed to the Ministerial Advisory Council on Child Protection by Hon Robyn McSweeney. They obviously had many conversations, including conversations about the Redress scheme and the like. On the day in July 2009 when the minister announced that the maximum payment would be reduced from $80 000 to $45 000 and the other changes which were outlined by the Attorney General this morning and which I have just repeated, Michelle Stubbs rang Hon Robyn McSweeney. She made contact with Hon Robyn McSweeney’s office and left a message. Hon Robyn McSweeney, the minister, dutifully returned that call and they had a lengthy conversation. Understandably, Michelle Stubbs was upset, she was emotional, and the conversation went on for some time. They know each other well. It was Michelle Stubbs who rang the minister to discuss the issue. She was on the advisory council; she knew what was going on. So to come in here and accuse, as the member for Rockingham did — Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : No, you have to be big enough and man enough to take it now. This is a test of all of you now. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the first time today. Member for Kwinana, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Leader of the Opposition, do you have a supplementary question? Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I am still — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen, I am formally going to call you to order for the first time today. You have a bit to make up, member for Girrawheen. Mr P.C. Tinley interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Willagee, just for the form, I call you to order as well. Mr C.J. BARNETT : It was Michelle Stubbs who called the minister’s office to try to persuade the minister to not reduce the maximum payment. That is clear from her letter today. The minister returned her call, later in the day, and they had a quite lengthy conversation. As I understand it, they talked about the scheme. Point number one: Michelle Stubbs contacted the minister, not the other way around. Point number two: I hope that the member for Rockingham is man enough to apologise, because Hon Robyn McSweeney did not ring Michelle Stubbs to “heavy” her, which he accused her of in this Parliament and which is on the record of this Parliament. I hope he is man enough to apologise to the minister; if not in here, when he sees her in the building. Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : The final point—by way of interjection!—is that Robyn McSweeney said, in the context of a lengthy conversation in which Michelle was extremely emotional, and understandably so, that she did use words along the lines of “let it go through to the keeper”, but that is very different from the accusation that the member for Rockingham made; namely, that the minister got on the phone and “heavied” her. The other accusation made by — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Willagee, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Midland, I formally call you to order for the second time today. I am not particularly interested in being continually on my feet formally calling members to order. It is not something that I want to do on a daily basis, let alone on a minute-by-minute basis! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I will conclude. The question had an implied accusation from the Leader of the Opposition that I and my office had in some way encouraged or got Robyn McSweeney to ring up Michelle Stubbs and “heavy” her. That was the tone of the question. I will tell the Leader of the Opposition that he might do that, the Labor Party might do that, but I do not!
Mr M. McGowan : You said all that this morning. Mr C.J. BARNETT : And what did the member say this morning? I will tell the member for Rockingham what he said this morning. What he — Mr W.J. Johnston : What is the answer to the question? Instead of coming in here and telling lies — The SPEAKER : Member for Cannington! Mr C.J. BARNETT : You did not even know the system. Mr R.F. JOHNSON : Mr Speaker — Withdrawal of Remark The SPEAKER : Take a seat, Premier; take a seat, Leader of the House. Member for Cannington, I request that you withdraw that comment. Mr W.J. JOHNSTON : I withdraw. Questions without Notice Resumed Mr C.J. BARNETT : Members opposite hurled accusations across the chamber. I will remember what the member for Joondalup said in particular. Mr W.J. Johnston : What did he say? Mr C.J. BARNETT : I will remember. Mr W.J. Johnston : What did he say? The SPEAKER : Member for Cannington! Mr C.J. BARNETT : I also recall very distinctly the member for Rockingham accusing Hon Robyn McSweeney of heavying—that was his expression — Mr M. McGowan : Yes. Mr C.J. BARNETT : — Michelle Stubbs. Mr M. McGowan : That’s what her letter says. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Jumping to conclusions and jumping to assertions. Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Maybe the member should listen for a little while. Hon Robyn McSweeney has professional experience, and years of experience, in dealing with children who have been abused. At least respect that. She is a professional in the area and has years of experience. Mrs M.H. Roberts : That’s why she should have known better, isn’t it? Mr C.J. BARNETT : Why do you not listen for a moment? Members opposite do not treat this seriously. Mrs M.H. Roberts : You don’t. The SPEAKER : Member for Midland, I formally call you to order for the first time today. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I just remind the house that Hon Robyn McSweeney has had years of experience in dealing with abused children. If anyone in this Parliament is sensitive to that situation, it would be her. If anyone has years of personal and professional experience in the area, it would be her—it would be Hon Robyn McSweeney—yet members opposite, and in particular the member for Rockingham, without any true knowledge of the situation, accused Hon Robyn McSweeney of ringing Michelle Stubbs and heavying her. They were the words that the member for Rockingham used. Mr M. McGowan : They were. Mr C.J. BARNETT : So I have taken the trouble, my office has taken the trouble, of being in contact with Hon Robyn McSweeney, and members opposite might be interested in the truth. “Don’t let the truth get in the way” is the Labor paradigm. But members opposite might be interested this time. Mr E.S. Ripper : I am interested. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Okay; well, why don’t you listen? I will tell you what happened. On the day — Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I will tell you what happened. On the day the announcement was made to reduce the maximum payment from $80 000 to $45 000, and the other changes that I have just outlined, Michelle Stubbs—Michelle Stubbs is a good person; I know her reasonably well—was appointed by Hon Robyn McSweeney — Mrs M.H. Roberts : Now you’re saying she’s a liar. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I have never, Mr Speaker, accused Michelle Stubbs of lying—ever—have I? I actually regard her as a friend. Never ever have I said that. You should withdraw and apologise. The SPEAKER : We have been through some of this this morning and some of you know where you are with it at this point. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I know Michelle Stubbs reasonably well. I have a great deal of respect and admiration for her. I like her as a person, and I fully recognise the incredible hardship that she suffered. No-one should doubt that, and certainly not people who know Michelle. Michelle Stubbs was appointed to the Ministerial Advisory Council on Child Protection by Hon Robyn McSweeney. They obviously had many conversations, including conversations about the Redress scheme and the like. On the day in July 2009 when the minister announced that the maximum payment would be reduced from $80 000 to $45 000 and the other changes which were outlined by the Attorney General this morning and which I have just repeated, Michelle Stubbs rang Hon Robyn McSweeney. She made contact with Hon Robyn McSweeney’s office and left a message. Hon Robyn McSweeney, the minister, dutifully returned that call and they had a lengthy conversation. Understandably, Michelle Stubbs was upset, she was emotional, and the conversation went on for some time. They know each other well. It was Michelle Stubbs who rang the minister to discuss the issue. She was on the advisory council; she knew what was going on. So to come in here and accuse, as the member for Rockingham did — Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : No, you have to be big enough and man enough to take it now. This is a test of all of you now. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the first time today. Member for Kwinana, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Leader of the Opposition, do you have a supplementary question? Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I am still — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen, I am formally going to call you to order for the first time today. You have a bit to make up, member for Girrawheen. Mr P.C. Tinley interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Willagee, just for the form, I call you to order as well. Mr C.J. BARNETT : It was Michelle Stubbs who called the minister’s office to try to persuade the minister to not reduce the maximum payment. That is clear from her letter today. The minister returned her call, later in the day, and they had a quite lengthy conversation. As I understand it, they talked about the scheme. Point number one: Michelle Stubbs contacted the minister, not the other way around. Point number two: I hope that the member for Rockingham is man enough to apologise, because Hon Robyn McSweeney did not ring Michelle Stubbs to “heavy” her, which he accused her of in this Parliament and which is on the record of this Parliament. I hope he is man enough to apologise to the minister; if not in here, when he sees her in the building. Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : The final point—by way of interjection!—is that Robyn McSweeney said, in the context of a lengthy conversation in which Michelle was extremely emotional, and understandably so, that she did use words along the lines of “let it go through to the keeper”, but that is very different from the accusation that the member for Rockingham made; namely, that the minister got on the phone and “heavied” her. The other accusation made by — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Willagee, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Midland, I formally call you to order for the second time today. I am not particularly interested in being continually on my feet formally calling members to order. It is not something that I want to do on a daily basis, let alone on a minute-by-minute basis! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I will conclude. The question had an implied accusation from the Leader of the Opposition that I and my office had in some way encouraged or got Robyn McSweeney to ring up Michelle Stubbs and “heavy” her. That was the tone of the question. I will tell the Leader of the Opposition that he might do that, the Labor Party might do that, but I do not!
Mr C.J. BARNETT : And what did the member say this morning? I will tell the member for Rockingham what he said this morning. What he — Mr W.J. Johnston : What is the answer to the question? Instead of coming in here and telling lies — The SPEAKER : Member for Cannington! Mr C.J. BARNETT : You did not even know the system. Mr R.F. JOHNSON : Mr Speaker — Withdrawal of Remark The SPEAKER : Take a seat, Premier; take a seat, Leader of the House. Member for Cannington, I request that you withdraw that comment. Mr W.J. JOHNSTON : I withdraw. Questions without Notice Resumed Mr C.J. BARNETT : Members opposite hurled accusations across the chamber. I will remember what the member for Joondalup said in particular. Mr W.J. Johnston : What did he say? Mr C.J. BARNETT : I will remember. Mr W.J. Johnston : What did he say? The SPEAKER : Member for Cannington! Mr C.J. BARNETT : I also recall very distinctly the member for Rockingham accusing Hon Robyn McSweeney of heavying—that was his expression — Mr M. McGowan : Yes. Mr C.J. BARNETT : — Michelle Stubbs. Mr M. McGowan : That’s what her letter says. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Jumping to conclusions and jumping to assertions. Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Maybe the member should listen for a little while. Hon Robyn McSweeney has professional experience, and years of experience, in dealing with children who have been abused. At least respect that. She is a professional in the area and has years of experience. Mrs M.H. Roberts : That’s why she should have known better, isn’t it? Mr C.J. BARNETT : Why do you not listen for a moment? Members opposite do not treat this seriously. Mrs M.H. Roberts : You don’t. The SPEAKER : Member for Midland, I formally call you to order for the first time today. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I just remind the house that Hon Robyn McSweeney has had years of experience in dealing with abused children. If anyone in this Parliament is sensitive to that situation, it would be her. If anyone has years of personal and professional experience in the area, it would be her—it would be Hon Robyn McSweeney—yet members opposite, and in particular the member for Rockingham, without any true knowledge of the situation, accused Hon Robyn McSweeney of ringing Michelle Stubbs and heavying her. They were the words that the member for Rockingham used. Mr M. McGowan : They were. Mr C.J. BARNETT : So I have taken the trouble, my office has taken the trouble, of being in contact with Hon Robyn McSweeney, and members opposite might be interested in the truth. “Don’t let the truth get in the way” is the Labor paradigm. But members opposite might be interested this time. Mr E.S. Ripper : I am interested. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Okay; well, why don’t you listen? I will tell you what happened. On the day — Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I will tell you what happened. On the day the announcement was made to reduce the maximum payment from $80 000 to $45 000, and the other changes that I have just outlined, Michelle Stubbs—Michelle Stubbs is a good person; I know her reasonably well—was appointed by Hon Robyn McSweeney — Mrs M.H. Roberts : Now you’re saying she’s a liar. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I have never, Mr Speaker, accused Michelle Stubbs of lying—ever—have I? I actually regard her as a friend. Never ever have I said that. You should withdraw and apologise. The SPEAKER : We have been through some of this this morning and some of you know where you are with it at this point. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I know Michelle Stubbs reasonably well. I have a great deal of respect and admiration for her. I like her as a person, and I fully recognise the incredible hardship that she suffered. No-one should doubt that, and certainly not people who know Michelle. Michelle Stubbs was appointed to the Ministerial Advisory Council on Child Protection by Hon Robyn McSweeney. They obviously had many conversations, including conversations about the Redress scheme and the like. On the day in July 2009 when the minister announced that the maximum payment would be reduced from $80 000 to $45 000 and the other changes which were outlined by the Attorney General this morning and which I have just repeated, Michelle Stubbs rang Hon Robyn McSweeney. She made contact with Hon Robyn McSweeney’s office and left a message. Hon Robyn McSweeney, the minister, dutifully returned that call and they had a lengthy conversation. Understandably, Michelle Stubbs was upset, she was emotional, and the conversation went on for some time. They know each other well. It was Michelle Stubbs who rang the minister to discuss the issue. She was on the advisory council; she knew what was going on. So to come in here and accuse, as the member for Rockingham did — Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : No, you have to be big enough and man enough to take it now. This is a test of all of you now. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the first time today. Member for Kwinana, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Leader of the Opposition, do you have a supplementary question? Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I am still — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen, I am formally going to call you to order for the first time today. You have a bit to make up, member for Girrawheen. Mr P.C. Tinley interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Willagee, just for the form, I call you to order as well. Mr C.J. BARNETT : It was Michelle Stubbs who called the minister’s office to try to persuade the minister to not reduce the maximum payment. That is clear from her letter today. The minister returned her call, later in the day, and they had a quite lengthy conversation. As I understand it, they talked about the scheme. Point number one: Michelle Stubbs contacted the minister, not the other way around. Point number two: I hope that the member for Rockingham is man enough to apologise, because Hon Robyn McSweeney did not ring Michelle Stubbs to “heavy” her, which he accused her of in this Parliament and which is on the record of this Parliament. I hope he is man enough to apologise to the minister; if not in here, when he sees her in the building. Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : The final point—by way of interjection!—is that Robyn McSweeney said, in the context of a lengthy conversation in which Michelle was extremely emotional, and understandably so, that she did use words along the lines of “let it go through to the keeper”, but that is very different from the accusation that the member for Rockingham made; namely, that the minister got on the phone and “heavied” her. The other accusation made by — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Willagee, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Midland, I formally call you to order for the second time today. I am not particularly interested in being continually on my feet formally calling members to order. It is not something that I want to do on a daily basis, let alone on a minute-by-minute basis! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I will conclude. The question had an implied accusation from the Leader of the Opposition that I and my office had in some way encouraged or got Robyn McSweeney to ring up Michelle Stubbs and “heavy” her. That was the tone of the question. I will tell the Leader of the Opposition that he might do that, the Labor Party might do that, but I do not!
Mr W.J. Johnston : What is the answer to the question? Instead of coming in here and telling lies — The SPEAKER : Member for Cannington! Mr C.J. BARNETT : You did not even know the system. Mr R.F. JOHNSON : Mr Speaker — Withdrawal of Remark The SPEAKER : Take a seat, Premier; take a seat, Leader of the House. Member for Cannington, I request that you withdraw that comment. Mr W.J. JOHNSTON : I withdraw. Questions without Notice Resumed Mr C.J. BARNETT : Members opposite hurled accusations across the chamber. I will remember what the member for Joondalup said in particular. Mr W.J. Johnston : What did he say? Mr C.J. BARNETT : I will remember. Mr W.J. Johnston : What did he say? The SPEAKER : Member for Cannington! Mr C.J. BARNETT : I also recall very distinctly the member for Rockingham accusing Hon Robyn McSweeney of heavying—that was his expression — Mr M. McGowan : Yes. Mr C.J. BARNETT : — Michelle Stubbs. Mr M. McGowan : That’s what her letter says. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Jumping to conclusions and jumping to assertions. Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Maybe the member should listen for a little while. Hon Robyn McSweeney has professional experience, and years of experience, in dealing with children who have been abused. At least respect that. She is a professional in the area and has years of experience. Mrs M.H. Roberts : That’s why she should have known better, isn’t it? Mr C.J. BARNETT : Why do you not listen for a moment? Members opposite do not treat this seriously. Mrs M.H. Roberts : You don’t. The SPEAKER : Member for Midland, I formally call you to order for the first time today. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I just remind the house that Hon Robyn McSweeney has had years of experience in dealing with abused children. If anyone in this Parliament is sensitive to that situation, it would be her. If anyone has years of personal and professional experience in the area, it would be her—it would be Hon Robyn McSweeney—yet members opposite, and in particular the member for Rockingham, without any true knowledge of the situation, accused Hon Robyn McSweeney of ringing Michelle Stubbs and heavying her. They were the words that the member for Rockingham used. Mr M. McGowan : They were. Mr C.J. BARNETT : So I have taken the trouble, my office has taken the trouble, of being in contact with Hon Robyn McSweeney, and members opposite might be interested in the truth. “Don’t let the truth get in the way” is the Labor paradigm. But members opposite might be interested this time. Mr E.S. Ripper : I am interested. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Okay; well, why don’t you listen? I will tell you what happened. On the day — Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I will tell you what happened. On the day the announcement was made to reduce the maximum payment from $80 000 to $45 000, and the other changes that I have just outlined, Michelle Stubbs—Michelle Stubbs is a good person; I know her reasonably well—was appointed by Hon Robyn McSweeney — Mrs M.H. Roberts : Now you’re saying she’s a liar. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I have never, Mr Speaker, accused Michelle Stubbs of lying—ever—have I? I actually regard her as a friend. Never ever have I said that. You should withdraw and apologise. The SPEAKER : We have been through some of this this morning and some of you know where you are with it at this point. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I know Michelle Stubbs reasonably well. I have a great deal of respect and admiration for her. I like her as a person, and I fully recognise the incredible hardship that she suffered. No-one should doubt that, and certainly not people who know Michelle. Michelle Stubbs was appointed to the Ministerial Advisory Council on Child Protection by Hon Robyn McSweeney. They obviously had many conversations, including conversations about the Redress scheme and the like. On the day in July 2009 when the minister announced that the maximum payment would be reduced from $80 000 to $45 000 and the other changes which were outlined by the Attorney General this morning and which I have just repeated, Michelle Stubbs rang Hon Robyn McSweeney. She made contact with Hon Robyn McSweeney’s office and left a message. Hon Robyn McSweeney, the minister, dutifully returned that call and they had a lengthy conversation. Understandably, Michelle Stubbs was upset, she was emotional, and the conversation went on for some time. They know each other well. It was Michelle Stubbs who rang the minister to discuss the issue. She was on the advisory council; she knew what was going on. So to come in here and accuse, as the member for Rockingham did — Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : No, you have to be big enough and man enough to take it now. This is a test of all of you now. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the first time today. Member for Kwinana, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Leader of the Opposition, do you have a supplementary question? Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I am still — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen, I am formally going to call you to order for the first time today. You have a bit to make up, member for Girrawheen. Mr P.C. Tinley interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Willagee, just for the form, I call you to order as well. Mr C.J. BARNETT : It was Michelle Stubbs who called the minister’s office to try to persuade the minister to not reduce the maximum payment. That is clear from her letter today. The minister returned her call, later in the day, and they had a quite lengthy conversation. As I understand it, they talked about the scheme. Point number one: Michelle Stubbs contacted the minister, not the other way around. Point number two: I hope that the member for Rockingham is man enough to apologise, because Hon Robyn McSweeney did not ring Michelle Stubbs to “heavy” her, which he accused her of in this Parliament and which is on the record of this Parliament. I hope he is man enough to apologise to the minister; if not in here, when he sees her in the building. Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : The final point—by way of interjection!—is that Robyn McSweeney said, in the context of a lengthy conversation in which Michelle was extremely emotional, and understandably so, that she did use words along the lines of “let it go through to the keeper”, but that is very different from the accusation that the member for Rockingham made; namely, that the minister got on the phone and “heavied” her. The other accusation made by — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Willagee, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Midland, I formally call you to order for the second time today. I am not particularly interested in being continually on my feet formally calling members to order. It is not something that I want to do on a daily basis, let alone on a minute-by-minute basis! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I will conclude. The question had an implied accusation from the Leader of the Opposition that I and my office had in some way encouraged or got Robyn McSweeney to ring up Michelle Stubbs and “heavy” her. That was the tone of the question. I will tell the Leader of the Opposition that he might do that, the Labor Party might do that, but I do not!
The SPEAKER : Member for Cannington! Mr C.J. BARNETT : You did not even know the system. Mr R.F. JOHNSON : Mr Speaker — Withdrawal of Remark The SPEAKER : Take a seat, Premier; take a seat, Leader of the House. Member for Cannington, I request that you withdraw that comment. Mr W.J. JOHNSTON : I withdraw. Questions without Notice Resumed Mr C.J. BARNETT : Members opposite hurled accusations across the chamber. I will remember what the member for Joondalup said in particular. Mr W.J. Johnston : What did he say? Mr C.J. BARNETT : I will remember. Mr W.J. Johnston : What did he say? The SPEAKER : Member for Cannington! Mr C.J. BARNETT : I also recall very distinctly the member for Rockingham accusing Hon Robyn McSweeney of heavying—that was his expression — Mr M. McGowan : Yes. Mr C.J. BARNETT : — Michelle Stubbs. Mr M. McGowan : That’s what her letter says. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Jumping to conclusions and jumping to assertions. Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Maybe the member should listen for a little while. Hon Robyn McSweeney has professional experience, and years of experience, in dealing with children who have been abused. At least respect that. She is a professional in the area and has years of experience. Mrs M.H. Roberts : That’s why she should have known better, isn’t it? Mr C.J. BARNETT : Why do you not listen for a moment? Members opposite do not treat this seriously. Mrs M.H. Roberts : You don’t. The SPEAKER : Member for Midland, I formally call you to order for the first time today. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I just remind the house that Hon Robyn McSweeney has had years of experience in dealing with abused children. If anyone in this Parliament is sensitive to that situation, it would be her. If anyone has years of personal and professional experience in the area, it would be her—it would be Hon Robyn McSweeney—yet members opposite, and in particular the member for Rockingham, without any true knowledge of the situation, accused Hon Robyn McSweeney of ringing Michelle Stubbs and heavying her. They were the words that the member for Rockingham used. Mr M. McGowan : They were. Mr C.J. BARNETT : So I have taken the trouble, my office has taken the trouble, of being in contact with Hon Robyn McSweeney, and members opposite might be interested in the truth. “Don’t let the truth get in the way” is the Labor paradigm. But members opposite might be interested this time. Mr E.S. Ripper : I am interested. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Okay; well, why don’t you listen? I will tell you what happened. On the day — Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I will tell you what happened. On the day the announcement was made to reduce the maximum payment from $80 000 to $45 000, and the other changes that I have just outlined, Michelle Stubbs—Michelle Stubbs is a good person; I know her reasonably well—was appointed by Hon Robyn McSweeney — Mrs M.H. Roberts : Now you’re saying she’s a liar. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I have never, Mr Speaker, accused Michelle Stubbs of lying—ever—have I? I actually regard her as a friend. Never ever have I said that. You should withdraw and apologise. The SPEAKER : We have been through some of this this morning and some of you know where you are with it at this point. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I know Michelle Stubbs reasonably well. I have a great deal of respect and admiration for her. I like her as a person, and I fully recognise the incredible hardship that she suffered. No-one should doubt that, and certainly not people who know Michelle. Michelle Stubbs was appointed to the Ministerial Advisory Council on Child Protection by Hon Robyn McSweeney. They obviously had many conversations, including conversations about the Redress scheme and the like. On the day in July 2009 when the minister announced that the maximum payment would be reduced from $80 000 to $45 000 and the other changes which were outlined by the Attorney General this morning and which I have just repeated, Michelle Stubbs rang Hon Robyn McSweeney. She made contact with Hon Robyn McSweeney’s office and left a message. Hon Robyn McSweeney, the minister, dutifully returned that call and they had a lengthy conversation. Understandably, Michelle Stubbs was upset, she was emotional, and the conversation went on for some time. They know each other well. It was Michelle Stubbs who rang the minister to discuss the issue. She was on the advisory council; she knew what was going on. So to come in here and accuse, as the member for Rockingham did — Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : No, you have to be big enough and man enough to take it now. This is a test of all of you now. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the first time today. Member for Kwinana, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Leader of the Opposition, do you have a supplementary question? Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I am still — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen, I am formally going to call you to order for the first time today. You have a bit to make up, member for Girrawheen. Mr P.C. Tinley interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Willagee, just for the form, I call you to order as well. Mr C.J. BARNETT : It was Michelle Stubbs who called the minister’s office to try to persuade the minister to not reduce the maximum payment. That is clear from her letter today. The minister returned her call, later in the day, and they had a quite lengthy conversation. As I understand it, they talked about the scheme. Point number one: Michelle Stubbs contacted the minister, not the other way around. Point number two: I hope that the member for Rockingham is man enough to apologise, because Hon Robyn McSweeney did not ring Michelle Stubbs to “heavy” her, which he accused her of in this Parliament and which is on the record of this Parliament. I hope he is man enough to apologise to the minister; if not in here, when he sees her in the building. Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : The final point—by way of interjection!—is that Robyn McSweeney said, in the context of a lengthy conversation in which Michelle was extremely emotional, and understandably so, that she did use words along the lines of “let it go through to the keeper”, but that is very different from the accusation that the member for Rockingham made; namely, that the minister got on the phone and “heavied” her. The other accusation made by — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Willagee, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Midland, I formally call you to order for the second time today. I am not particularly interested in being continually on my feet formally calling members to order. It is not something that I want to do on a daily basis, let alone on a minute-by-minute basis! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I will conclude. The question had an implied accusation from the Leader of the Opposition that I and my office had in some way encouraged or got Robyn McSweeney to ring up Michelle Stubbs and “heavy” her. That was the tone of the question. I will tell the Leader of the Opposition that he might do that, the Labor Party might do that, but I do not!
Mr C.J. BARNETT : You did not even know the system. Mr R.F. JOHNSON : Mr Speaker — Withdrawal of Remark The SPEAKER : Take a seat, Premier; take a seat, Leader of the House. Member for Cannington, I request that you withdraw that comment. Mr W.J. JOHNSTON : I withdraw. Questions without Notice Resumed Mr C.J. BARNETT : Members opposite hurled accusations across the chamber. I will remember what the member for Joondalup said in particular. Mr W.J. Johnston : What did he say? Mr C.J. BARNETT : I will remember. Mr W.J. Johnston : What did he say? The SPEAKER : Member for Cannington! Mr C.J. BARNETT : I also recall very distinctly the member for Rockingham accusing Hon Robyn McSweeney of heavying—that was his expression — Mr M. McGowan : Yes. Mr C.J. BARNETT : — Michelle Stubbs. Mr M. McGowan : That’s what her letter says. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Jumping to conclusions and jumping to assertions. Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Maybe the member should listen for a little while. Hon Robyn McSweeney has professional experience, and years of experience, in dealing with children who have been abused. At least respect that. She is a professional in the area and has years of experience. Mrs M.H. Roberts : That’s why she should have known better, isn’t it? Mr C.J. BARNETT : Why do you not listen for a moment? Members opposite do not treat this seriously. Mrs M.H. Roberts : You don’t. The SPEAKER : Member for Midland, I formally call you to order for the first time today. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I just remind the house that Hon Robyn McSweeney has had years of experience in dealing with abused children. If anyone in this Parliament is sensitive to that situation, it would be her. If anyone has years of personal and professional experience in the area, it would be her—it would be Hon Robyn McSweeney—yet members opposite, and in particular the member for Rockingham, without any true knowledge of the situation, accused Hon Robyn McSweeney of ringing Michelle Stubbs and heavying her. They were the words that the member for Rockingham used. Mr M. McGowan : They were. Mr C.J. BARNETT : So I have taken the trouble, my office has taken the trouble, of being in contact with Hon Robyn McSweeney, and members opposite might be interested in the truth. “Don’t let the truth get in the way” is the Labor paradigm. But members opposite might be interested this time. Mr E.S. Ripper : I am interested. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Okay; well, why don’t you listen? I will tell you what happened. On the day — Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I will tell you what happened. On the day the announcement was made to reduce the maximum payment from $80 000 to $45 000, and the other changes that I have just outlined, Michelle Stubbs—Michelle Stubbs is a good person; I know her reasonably well—was appointed by Hon Robyn McSweeney — Mrs M.H. Roberts : Now you’re saying she’s a liar. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I have never, Mr Speaker, accused Michelle Stubbs of lying—ever—have I? I actually regard her as a friend. Never ever have I said that. You should withdraw and apologise. The SPEAKER : We have been through some of this this morning and some of you know where you are with it at this point. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I know Michelle Stubbs reasonably well. I have a great deal of respect and admiration for her. I like her as a person, and I fully recognise the incredible hardship that she suffered. No-one should doubt that, and certainly not people who know Michelle. Michelle Stubbs was appointed to the Ministerial Advisory Council on Child Protection by Hon Robyn McSweeney. They obviously had many conversations, including conversations about the Redress scheme and the like. On the day in July 2009 when the minister announced that the maximum payment would be reduced from $80 000 to $45 000 and the other changes which were outlined by the Attorney General this morning and which I have just repeated, Michelle Stubbs rang Hon Robyn McSweeney. She made contact with Hon Robyn McSweeney’s office and left a message. Hon Robyn McSweeney, the minister, dutifully returned that call and they had a lengthy conversation. Understandably, Michelle Stubbs was upset, she was emotional, and the conversation went on for some time. They know each other well. It was Michelle Stubbs who rang the minister to discuss the issue. She was on the advisory council; she knew what was going on. So to come in here and accuse, as the member for Rockingham did — Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : No, you have to be big enough and man enough to take it now. This is a test of all of you now. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the first time today. Member for Kwinana, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Leader of the Opposition, do you have a supplementary question? Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I am still — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen, I am formally going to call you to order for the first time today. You have a bit to make up, member for Girrawheen. Mr P.C. Tinley interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Willagee, just for the form, I call you to order as well. Mr C.J. BARNETT : It was Michelle Stubbs who called the minister’s office to try to persuade the minister to not reduce the maximum payment. That is clear from her letter today. The minister returned her call, later in the day, and they had a quite lengthy conversation. As I understand it, they talked about the scheme. Point number one: Michelle Stubbs contacted the minister, not the other way around. Point number two: I hope that the member for Rockingham is man enough to apologise, because Hon Robyn McSweeney did not ring Michelle Stubbs to “heavy” her, which he accused her of in this Parliament and which is on the record of this Parliament. I hope he is man enough to apologise to the minister; if not in here, when he sees her in the building. Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : The final point—by way of interjection!—is that Robyn McSweeney said, in the context of a lengthy conversation in which Michelle was extremely emotional, and understandably so, that she did use words along the lines of “let it go through to the keeper”, but that is very different from the accusation that the member for Rockingham made; namely, that the minister got on the phone and “heavied” her. The other accusation made by — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Willagee, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Midland, I formally call you to order for the second time today. I am not particularly interested in being continually on my feet formally calling members to order. It is not something that I want to do on a daily basis, let alone on a minute-by-minute basis! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I will conclude. The question had an implied accusation from the Leader of the Opposition that I and my office had in some way encouraged or got Robyn McSweeney to ring up Michelle Stubbs and “heavy” her. That was the tone of the question. I will tell the Leader of the Opposition that he might do that, the Labor Party might do that, but I do not!
Mr R.F. JOHNSON : Mr Speaker — Withdrawal of Remark The SPEAKER : Take a seat, Premier; take a seat, Leader of the House. Member for Cannington, I request that you withdraw that comment. Mr W.J. JOHNSTON : I withdraw. Questions without Notice Resumed Mr C.J. BARNETT : Members opposite hurled accusations across the chamber. I will remember what the member for Joondalup said in particular. Mr W.J. Johnston : What did he say? Mr C.J. BARNETT : I will remember. Mr W.J. Johnston : What did he say? The SPEAKER : Member for Cannington! Mr C.J. BARNETT : I also recall very distinctly the member for Rockingham accusing Hon Robyn McSweeney of heavying—that was his expression — Mr M. McGowan : Yes. Mr C.J. BARNETT : — Michelle Stubbs. Mr M. McGowan : That’s what her letter says. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Jumping to conclusions and jumping to assertions. Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Maybe the member should listen for a little while. Hon Robyn McSweeney has professional experience, and years of experience, in dealing with children who have been abused. At least respect that. She is a professional in the area and has years of experience. Mrs M.H. Roberts : That’s why she should have known better, isn’t it? Mr C.J. BARNETT : Why do you not listen for a moment? Members opposite do not treat this seriously. Mrs M.H. Roberts : You don’t. The SPEAKER : Member for Midland, I formally call you to order for the first time today. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I just remind the house that Hon Robyn McSweeney has had years of experience in dealing with abused children. If anyone in this Parliament is sensitive to that situation, it would be her. If anyone has years of personal and professional experience in the area, it would be her—it would be Hon Robyn McSweeney—yet members opposite, and in particular the member for Rockingham, without any true knowledge of the situation, accused Hon Robyn McSweeney of ringing Michelle Stubbs and heavying her. They were the words that the member for Rockingham used. Mr M. McGowan : They were. Mr C.J. BARNETT : So I have taken the trouble, my office has taken the trouble, of being in contact with Hon Robyn McSweeney, and members opposite might be interested in the truth. “Don’t let the truth get in the way” is the Labor paradigm. But members opposite might be interested this time. Mr E.S. Ripper : I am interested. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Okay; well, why don’t you listen? I will tell you what happened. On the day — Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I will tell you what happened. On the day the announcement was made to reduce the maximum payment from $80 000 to $45 000, and the other changes that I have just outlined, Michelle Stubbs—Michelle Stubbs is a good person; I know her reasonably well—was appointed by Hon Robyn McSweeney — Mrs M.H. Roberts : Now you’re saying she’s a liar. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I have never, Mr Speaker, accused Michelle Stubbs of lying—ever—have I? I actually regard her as a friend. Never ever have I said that. You should withdraw and apologise. The SPEAKER : We have been through some of this this morning and some of you know where you are with it at this point. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I know Michelle Stubbs reasonably well. I have a great deal of respect and admiration for her. I like her as a person, and I fully recognise the incredible hardship that she suffered. No-one should doubt that, and certainly not people who know Michelle. Michelle Stubbs was appointed to the Ministerial Advisory Council on Child Protection by Hon Robyn McSweeney. They obviously had many conversations, including conversations about the Redress scheme and the like. On the day in July 2009 when the minister announced that the maximum payment would be reduced from $80 000 to $45 000 and the other changes which were outlined by the Attorney General this morning and which I have just repeated, Michelle Stubbs rang Hon Robyn McSweeney. She made contact with Hon Robyn McSweeney’s office and left a message. Hon Robyn McSweeney, the minister, dutifully returned that call and they had a lengthy conversation. Understandably, Michelle Stubbs was upset, she was emotional, and the conversation went on for some time. They know each other well. It was Michelle Stubbs who rang the minister to discuss the issue. She was on the advisory council; she knew what was going on. So to come in here and accuse, as the member for Rockingham did — Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : No, you have to be big enough and man enough to take it now. This is a test of all of you now. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the first time today. Member for Kwinana, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Leader of the Opposition, do you have a supplementary question? Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I am still — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen, I am formally going to call you to order for the first time today. You have a bit to make up, member for Girrawheen. Mr P.C. Tinley interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Willagee, just for the form, I call you to order as well. Mr C.J. BARNETT : It was Michelle Stubbs who called the minister’s office to try to persuade the minister to not reduce the maximum payment. That is clear from her letter today. The minister returned her call, later in the day, and they had a quite lengthy conversation. As I understand it, they talked about the scheme. Point number one: Michelle Stubbs contacted the minister, not the other way around. Point number two: I hope that the member for Rockingham is man enough to apologise, because Hon Robyn McSweeney did not ring Michelle Stubbs to “heavy” her, which he accused her of in this Parliament and which is on the record of this Parliament. I hope he is man enough to apologise to the minister; if not in here, when he sees her in the building. Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : The final point—by way of interjection!—is that Robyn McSweeney said, in the context of a lengthy conversation in which Michelle was extremely emotional, and understandably so, that she did use words along the lines of “let it go through to the keeper”, but that is very different from the accusation that the member for Rockingham made; namely, that the minister got on the phone and “heavied” her. The other accusation made by — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Willagee, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Midland, I formally call you to order for the second time today. I am not particularly interested in being continually on my feet formally calling members to order. It is not something that I want to do on a daily basis, let alone on a minute-by-minute basis! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I will conclude. The question had an implied accusation from the Leader of the Opposition that I and my office had in some way encouraged or got Robyn McSweeney to ring up Michelle Stubbs and “heavy” her. That was the tone of the question. I will tell the Leader of the Opposition that he might do that, the Labor Party might do that, but I do not!
Mr W.J. JOHNSTON : I withdraw. Questions without Notice Resumed Mr C.J. BARNETT : Members opposite hurled accusations across the chamber. I will remember what the member for Joondalup said in particular. Mr W.J. Johnston : What did he say? Mr C.J. BARNETT : I will remember. Mr W.J. Johnston : What did he say? The SPEAKER : Member for Cannington! Mr C.J. BARNETT : I also recall very distinctly the member for Rockingham accusing Hon Robyn McSweeney of heavying—that was his expression — Mr M. McGowan : Yes. Mr C.J. BARNETT : — Michelle Stubbs. Mr M. McGowan : That’s what her letter says. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Jumping to conclusions and jumping to assertions. Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Maybe the member should listen for a little while. Hon Robyn McSweeney has professional experience, and years of experience, in dealing with children who have been abused. At least respect that. She is a professional in the area and has years of experience. Mrs M.H. Roberts : That’s why she should have known better, isn’t it? Mr C.J. BARNETT : Why do you not listen for a moment? Members opposite do not treat this seriously. Mrs M.H. Roberts : You don’t. The SPEAKER : Member for Midland, I formally call you to order for the first time today. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I just remind the house that Hon Robyn McSweeney has had years of experience in dealing with abused children. If anyone in this Parliament is sensitive to that situation, it would be her. If anyone has years of personal and professional experience in the area, it would be her—it would be Hon Robyn McSweeney—yet members opposite, and in particular the member for Rockingham, without any true knowledge of the situation, accused Hon Robyn McSweeney of ringing Michelle Stubbs and heavying her. They were the words that the member for Rockingham used. Mr M. McGowan : They were. Mr C.J. BARNETT : So I have taken the trouble, my office has taken the trouble, of being in contact with Hon Robyn McSweeney, and members opposite might be interested in the truth. “Don’t let the truth get in the way” is the Labor paradigm. But members opposite might be interested this time. Mr E.S. Ripper : I am interested. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Okay; well, why don’t you listen? I will tell you what happened. On the day — Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I will tell you what happened. On the day the announcement was made to reduce the maximum payment from $80 000 to $45 000, and the other changes that I have just outlined, Michelle Stubbs—Michelle Stubbs is a good person; I know her reasonably well—was appointed by Hon Robyn McSweeney — Mrs M.H. Roberts : Now you’re saying she’s a liar. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I have never, Mr Speaker, accused Michelle Stubbs of lying—ever—have I? I actually regard her as a friend. Never ever have I said that. You should withdraw and apologise. The SPEAKER : We have been through some of this this morning and some of you know where you are with it at this point. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I know Michelle Stubbs reasonably well. I have a great deal of respect and admiration for her. I like her as a person, and I fully recognise the incredible hardship that she suffered. No-one should doubt that, and certainly not people who know Michelle. Michelle Stubbs was appointed to the Ministerial Advisory Council on Child Protection by Hon Robyn McSweeney. They obviously had many conversations, including conversations about the Redress scheme and the like. On the day in July 2009 when the minister announced that the maximum payment would be reduced from $80 000 to $45 000 and the other changes which were outlined by the Attorney General this morning and which I have just repeated, Michelle Stubbs rang Hon Robyn McSweeney. She made contact with Hon Robyn McSweeney’s office and left a message. Hon Robyn McSweeney, the minister, dutifully returned that call and they had a lengthy conversation. Understandably, Michelle Stubbs was upset, she was emotional, and the conversation went on for some time. They know each other well. It was Michelle Stubbs who rang the minister to discuss the issue. She was on the advisory council; she knew what was going on. So to come in here and accuse, as the member for Rockingham did — Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : No, you have to be big enough and man enough to take it now. This is a test of all of you now. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the first time today. Member for Kwinana, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Leader of the Opposition, do you have a supplementary question? Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I am still — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen, I am formally going to call you to order for the first time today. You have a bit to make up, member for Girrawheen. Mr P.C. Tinley interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Willagee, just for the form, I call you to order as well. Mr C.J. BARNETT : It was Michelle Stubbs who called the minister’s office to try to persuade the minister to not reduce the maximum payment. That is clear from her letter today. The minister returned her call, later in the day, and they had a quite lengthy conversation. As I understand it, they talked about the scheme. Point number one: Michelle Stubbs contacted the minister, not the other way around. Point number two: I hope that the member for Rockingham is man enough to apologise, because Hon Robyn McSweeney did not ring Michelle Stubbs to “heavy” her, which he accused her of in this Parliament and which is on the record of this Parliament. I hope he is man enough to apologise to the minister; if not in here, when he sees her in the building. Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : The final point—by way of interjection!—is that Robyn McSweeney said, in the context of a lengthy conversation in which Michelle was extremely emotional, and understandably so, that she did use words along the lines of “let it go through to the keeper”, but that is very different from the accusation that the member for Rockingham made; namely, that the minister got on the phone and “heavied” her. The other accusation made by — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Willagee, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Midland, I formally call you to order for the second time today. I am not particularly interested in being continually on my feet formally calling members to order. It is not something that I want to do on a daily basis, let alone on a minute-by-minute basis! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I will conclude. The question had an implied accusation from the Leader of the Opposition that I and my office had in some way encouraged or got Robyn McSweeney to ring up Michelle Stubbs and “heavy” her. That was the tone of the question. I will tell the Leader of the Opposition that he might do that, the Labor Party might do that, but I do not!
Mr W.J. Johnston : What did he say? Mr C.J. BARNETT : I will remember. Mr W.J. Johnston : What did he say? The SPEAKER : Member for Cannington! Mr C.J. BARNETT : I also recall very distinctly the member for Rockingham accusing Hon Robyn McSweeney of heavying—that was his expression — Mr M. McGowan : Yes. Mr C.J. BARNETT : — Michelle Stubbs. Mr M. McGowan : That’s what her letter says. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Jumping to conclusions and jumping to assertions. Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Maybe the member should listen for a little while. Hon Robyn McSweeney has professional experience, and years of experience, in dealing with children who have been abused. At least respect that. She is a professional in the area and has years of experience. Mrs M.H. Roberts : That’s why she should have known better, isn’t it? Mr C.J. BARNETT : Why do you not listen for a moment? Members opposite do not treat this seriously. Mrs M.H. Roberts : You don’t. The SPEAKER : Member for Midland, I formally call you to order for the first time today. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I just remind the house that Hon Robyn McSweeney has had years of experience in dealing with abused children. If anyone in this Parliament is sensitive to that situation, it would be her. If anyone has years of personal and professional experience in the area, it would be her—it would be Hon Robyn McSweeney—yet members opposite, and in particular the member for Rockingham, without any true knowledge of the situation, accused Hon Robyn McSweeney of ringing Michelle Stubbs and heavying her. They were the words that the member for Rockingham used. Mr M. McGowan : They were. Mr C.J. BARNETT : So I have taken the trouble, my office has taken the trouble, of being in contact with Hon Robyn McSweeney, and members opposite might be interested in the truth. “Don’t let the truth get in the way” is the Labor paradigm. But members opposite might be interested this time. Mr E.S. Ripper : I am interested. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Okay; well, why don’t you listen? I will tell you what happened. On the day — Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I will tell you what happened. On the day the announcement was made to reduce the maximum payment from $80 000 to $45 000, and the other changes that I have just outlined, Michelle Stubbs—Michelle Stubbs is a good person; I know her reasonably well—was appointed by Hon Robyn McSweeney — Mrs M.H. Roberts : Now you’re saying she’s a liar. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I have never, Mr Speaker, accused Michelle Stubbs of lying—ever—have I? I actually regard her as a friend. Never ever have I said that. You should withdraw and apologise. The SPEAKER : We have been through some of this this morning and some of you know where you are with it at this point. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I know Michelle Stubbs reasonably well. I have a great deal of respect and admiration for her. I like her as a person, and I fully recognise the incredible hardship that she suffered. No-one should doubt that, and certainly not people who know Michelle. Michelle Stubbs was appointed to the Ministerial Advisory Council on Child Protection by Hon Robyn McSweeney. They obviously had many conversations, including conversations about the Redress scheme and the like. On the day in July 2009 when the minister announced that the maximum payment would be reduced from $80 000 to $45 000 and the other changes which were outlined by the Attorney General this morning and which I have just repeated, Michelle Stubbs rang Hon Robyn McSweeney. She made contact with Hon Robyn McSweeney’s office and left a message. Hon Robyn McSweeney, the minister, dutifully returned that call and they had a lengthy conversation. Understandably, Michelle Stubbs was upset, she was emotional, and the conversation went on for some time. They know each other well. It was Michelle Stubbs who rang the minister to discuss the issue. She was on the advisory council; she knew what was going on. So to come in here and accuse, as the member for Rockingham did — Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : No, you have to be big enough and man enough to take it now. This is a test of all of you now. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the first time today. Member for Kwinana, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Leader of the Opposition, do you have a supplementary question? Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I am still — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen, I am formally going to call you to order for the first time today. You have a bit to make up, member for Girrawheen. Mr P.C. Tinley interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Willagee, just for the form, I call you to order as well. Mr C.J. BARNETT : It was Michelle Stubbs who called the minister’s office to try to persuade the minister to not reduce the maximum payment. That is clear from her letter today. The minister returned her call, later in the day, and they had a quite lengthy conversation. As I understand it, they talked about the scheme. Point number one: Michelle Stubbs contacted the minister, not the other way around. Point number two: I hope that the member for Rockingham is man enough to apologise, because Hon Robyn McSweeney did not ring Michelle Stubbs to “heavy” her, which he accused her of in this Parliament and which is on the record of this Parliament. I hope he is man enough to apologise to the minister; if not in here, when he sees her in the building. Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : The final point—by way of interjection!—is that Robyn McSweeney said, in the context of a lengthy conversation in which Michelle was extremely emotional, and understandably so, that she did use words along the lines of “let it go through to the keeper”, but that is very different from the accusation that the member for Rockingham made; namely, that the minister got on the phone and “heavied” her. The other accusation made by — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Willagee, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Midland, I formally call you to order for the second time today. I am not particularly interested in being continually on my feet formally calling members to order. It is not something that I want to do on a daily basis, let alone on a minute-by-minute basis! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I will conclude. The question had an implied accusation from the Leader of the Opposition that I and my office had in some way encouraged or got Robyn McSweeney to ring up Michelle Stubbs and “heavy” her. That was the tone of the question. I will tell the Leader of the Opposition that he might do that, the Labor Party might do that, but I do not!
Mr C.J. BARNETT : I will remember. Mr W.J. Johnston : What did he say? The SPEAKER : Member for Cannington! Mr C.J. BARNETT : I also recall very distinctly the member for Rockingham accusing Hon Robyn McSweeney of heavying—that was his expression — Mr M. McGowan : Yes. Mr C.J. BARNETT : — Michelle Stubbs. Mr M. McGowan : That’s what her letter says. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Jumping to conclusions and jumping to assertions. Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Maybe the member should listen for a little while. Hon Robyn McSweeney has professional experience, and years of experience, in dealing with children who have been abused. At least respect that. She is a professional in the area and has years of experience. Mrs M.H. Roberts : That’s why she should have known better, isn’t it? Mr C.J. BARNETT : Why do you not listen for a moment? Members opposite do not treat this seriously. Mrs M.H. Roberts : You don’t. The SPEAKER : Member for Midland, I formally call you to order for the first time today. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I just remind the house that Hon Robyn McSweeney has had years of experience in dealing with abused children. If anyone in this Parliament is sensitive to that situation, it would be her. If anyone has years of personal and professional experience in the area, it would be her—it would be Hon Robyn McSweeney—yet members opposite, and in particular the member for Rockingham, without any true knowledge of the situation, accused Hon Robyn McSweeney of ringing Michelle Stubbs and heavying her. They were the words that the member for Rockingham used. Mr M. McGowan : They were. Mr C.J. BARNETT : So I have taken the trouble, my office has taken the trouble, of being in contact with Hon Robyn McSweeney, and members opposite might be interested in the truth. “Don’t let the truth get in the way” is the Labor paradigm. But members opposite might be interested this time. Mr E.S. Ripper : I am interested. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Okay; well, why don’t you listen? I will tell you what happened. On the day — Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I will tell you what happened. On the day the announcement was made to reduce the maximum payment from $80 000 to $45 000, and the other changes that I have just outlined, Michelle Stubbs—Michelle Stubbs is a good person; I know her reasonably well—was appointed by Hon Robyn McSweeney — Mrs M.H. Roberts : Now you’re saying she’s a liar. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I have never, Mr Speaker, accused Michelle Stubbs of lying—ever—have I? I actually regard her as a friend. Never ever have I said that. You should withdraw and apologise. The SPEAKER : We have been through some of this this morning and some of you know where you are with it at this point. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I know Michelle Stubbs reasonably well. I have a great deal of respect and admiration for her. I like her as a person, and I fully recognise the incredible hardship that she suffered. No-one should doubt that, and certainly not people who know Michelle. Michelle Stubbs was appointed to the Ministerial Advisory Council on Child Protection by Hon Robyn McSweeney. They obviously had many conversations, including conversations about the Redress scheme and the like. On the day in July 2009 when the minister announced that the maximum payment would be reduced from $80 000 to $45 000 and the other changes which were outlined by the Attorney General this morning and which I have just repeated, Michelle Stubbs rang Hon Robyn McSweeney. She made contact with Hon Robyn McSweeney’s office and left a message. Hon Robyn McSweeney, the minister, dutifully returned that call and they had a lengthy conversation. Understandably, Michelle Stubbs was upset, she was emotional, and the conversation went on for some time. They know each other well. It was Michelle Stubbs who rang the minister to discuss the issue. She was on the advisory council; she knew what was going on. So to come in here and accuse, as the member for Rockingham did — Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : No, you have to be big enough and man enough to take it now. This is a test of all of you now. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the first time today. Member for Kwinana, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Leader of the Opposition, do you have a supplementary question? Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I am still — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen, I am formally going to call you to order for the first time today. You have a bit to make up, member for Girrawheen. Mr P.C. Tinley interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Willagee, just for the form, I call you to order as well. Mr C.J. BARNETT : It was Michelle Stubbs who called the minister’s office to try to persuade the minister to not reduce the maximum payment. That is clear from her letter today. The minister returned her call, later in the day, and they had a quite lengthy conversation. As I understand it, they talked about the scheme. Point number one: Michelle Stubbs contacted the minister, not the other way around. Point number two: I hope that the member for Rockingham is man enough to apologise, because Hon Robyn McSweeney did not ring Michelle Stubbs to “heavy” her, which he accused her of in this Parliament and which is on the record of this Parliament. I hope he is man enough to apologise to the minister; if not in here, when he sees her in the building. Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : The final point—by way of interjection!—is that Robyn McSweeney said, in the context of a lengthy conversation in which Michelle was extremely emotional, and understandably so, that she did use words along the lines of “let it go through to the keeper”, but that is very different from the accusation that the member for Rockingham made; namely, that the minister got on the phone and “heavied” her. The other accusation made by — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Willagee, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Midland, I formally call you to order for the second time today. I am not particularly interested in being continually on my feet formally calling members to order. It is not something that I want to do on a daily basis, let alone on a minute-by-minute basis! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I will conclude. The question had an implied accusation from the Leader of the Opposition that I and my office had in some way encouraged or got Robyn McSweeney to ring up Michelle Stubbs and “heavy” her. That was the tone of the question. I will tell the Leader of the Opposition that he might do that, the Labor Party might do that, but I do not!
Mr W.J. Johnston : What did he say? The SPEAKER : Member for Cannington! Mr C.J. BARNETT : I also recall very distinctly the member for Rockingham accusing Hon Robyn McSweeney of heavying—that was his expression — Mr M. McGowan : Yes. Mr C.J. BARNETT : — Michelle Stubbs. Mr M. McGowan : That’s what her letter says. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Jumping to conclusions and jumping to assertions. Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Maybe the member should listen for a little while. Hon Robyn McSweeney has professional experience, and years of experience, in dealing with children who have been abused. At least respect that. She is a professional in the area and has years of experience. Mrs M.H. Roberts : That’s why she should have known better, isn’t it? Mr C.J. BARNETT : Why do you not listen for a moment? Members opposite do not treat this seriously. Mrs M.H. Roberts : You don’t. The SPEAKER : Member for Midland, I formally call you to order for the first time today. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I just remind the house that Hon Robyn McSweeney has had years of experience in dealing with abused children. If anyone in this Parliament is sensitive to that situation, it would be her. If anyone has years of personal and professional experience in the area, it would be her—it would be Hon Robyn McSweeney—yet members opposite, and in particular the member for Rockingham, without any true knowledge of the situation, accused Hon Robyn McSweeney of ringing Michelle Stubbs and heavying her. They were the words that the member for Rockingham used. Mr M. McGowan : They were. Mr C.J. BARNETT : So I have taken the trouble, my office has taken the trouble, of being in contact with Hon Robyn McSweeney, and members opposite might be interested in the truth. “Don’t let the truth get in the way” is the Labor paradigm. But members opposite might be interested this time. Mr E.S. Ripper : I am interested. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Okay; well, why don’t you listen? I will tell you what happened. On the day — Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I will tell you what happened. On the day the announcement was made to reduce the maximum payment from $80 000 to $45 000, and the other changes that I have just outlined, Michelle Stubbs—Michelle Stubbs is a good person; I know her reasonably well—was appointed by Hon Robyn McSweeney — Mrs M.H. Roberts : Now you’re saying she’s a liar. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I have never, Mr Speaker, accused Michelle Stubbs of lying—ever—have I? I actually regard her as a friend. Never ever have I said that. You should withdraw and apologise. The SPEAKER : We have been through some of this this morning and some of you know where you are with it at this point. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I know Michelle Stubbs reasonably well. I have a great deal of respect and admiration for her. I like her as a person, and I fully recognise the incredible hardship that she suffered. No-one should doubt that, and certainly not people who know Michelle. Michelle Stubbs was appointed to the Ministerial Advisory Council on Child Protection by Hon Robyn McSweeney. They obviously had many conversations, including conversations about the Redress scheme and the like. On the day in July 2009 when the minister announced that the maximum payment would be reduced from $80 000 to $45 000 and the other changes which were outlined by the Attorney General this morning and which I have just repeated, Michelle Stubbs rang Hon Robyn McSweeney. She made contact with Hon Robyn McSweeney’s office and left a message. Hon Robyn McSweeney, the minister, dutifully returned that call and they had a lengthy conversation. Understandably, Michelle Stubbs was upset, she was emotional, and the conversation went on for some time. They know each other well. It was Michelle Stubbs who rang the minister to discuss the issue. She was on the advisory council; she knew what was going on. So to come in here and accuse, as the member for Rockingham did — Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : No, you have to be big enough and man enough to take it now. This is a test of all of you now. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the first time today. Member for Kwinana, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Leader of the Opposition, do you have a supplementary question? Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I am still — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen, I am formally going to call you to order for the first time today. You have a bit to make up, member for Girrawheen. Mr P.C. Tinley interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Willagee, just for the form, I call you to order as well. Mr C.J. BARNETT : It was Michelle Stubbs who called the minister’s office to try to persuade the minister to not reduce the maximum payment. That is clear from her letter today. The minister returned her call, later in the day, and they had a quite lengthy conversation. As I understand it, they talked about the scheme. Point number one: Michelle Stubbs contacted the minister, not the other way around. Point number two: I hope that the member for Rockingham is man enough to apologise, because Hon Robyn McSweeney did not ring Michelle Stubbs to “heavy” her, which he accused her of in this Parliament and which is on the record of this Parliament. I hope he is man enough to apologise to the minister; if not in here, when he sees her in the building. Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : The final point—by way of interjection!—is that Robyn McSweeney said, in the context of a lengthy conversation in which Michelle was extremely emotional, and understandably so, that she did use words along the lines of “let it go through to the keeper”, but that is very different from the accusation that the member for Rockingham made; namely, that the minister got on the phone and “heavied” her. The other accusation made by — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Willagee, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Midland, I formally call you to order for the second time today. I am not particularly interested in being continually on my feet formally calling members to order. It is not something that I want to do on a daily basis, let alone on a minute-by-minute basis! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I will conclude. The question had an implied accusation from the Leader of the Opposition that I and my office had in some way encouraged or got Robyn McSweeney to ring up Michelle Stubbs and “heavy” her. That was the tone of the question. I will tell the Leader of the Opposition that he might do that, the Labor Party might do that, but I do not!
The SPEAKER : Member for Cannington! Mr C.J. BARNETT : I also recall very distinctly the member for Rockingham accusing Hon Robyn McSweeney of heavying—that was his expression — Mr M. McGowan : Yes. Mr C.J. BARNETT : — Michelle Stubbs. Mr M. McGowan : That’s what her letter says. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Jumping to conclusions and jumping to assertions. Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Maybe the member should listen for a little while. Hon Robyn McSweeney has professional experience, and years of experience, in dealing with children who have been abused. At least respect that. She is a professional in the area and has years of experience. Mrs M.H. Roberts : That’s why she should have known better, isn’t it? Mr C.J. BARNETT : Why do you not listen for a moment? Members opposite do not treat this seriously. Mrs M.H. Roberts : You don’t. The SPEAKER : Member for Midland, I formally call you to order for the first time today. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I just remind the house that Hon Robyn McSweeney has had years of experience in dealing with abused children. If anyone in this Parliament is sensitive to that situation, it would be her. If anyone has years of personal and professional experience in the area, it would be her—it would be Hon Robyn McSweeney—yet members opposite, and in particular the member for Rockingham, without any true knowledge of the situation, accused Hon Robyn McSweeney of ringing Michelle Stubbs and heavying her. They were the words that the member for Rockingham used. Mr M. McGowan : They were. Mr C.J. BARNETT : So I have taken the trouble, my office has taken the trouble, of being in contact with Hon Robyn McSweeney, and members opposite might be interested in the truth. “Don’t let the truth get in the way” is the Labor paradigm. But members opposite might be interested this time. Mr E.S. Ripper : I am interested. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Okay; well, why don’t you listen? I will tell you what happened. On the day — Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I will tell you what happened. On the day the announcement was made to reduce the maximum payment from $80 000 to $45 000, and the other changes that I have just outlined, Michelle Stubbs—Michelle Stubbs is a good person; I know her reasonably well—was appointed by Hon Robyn McSweeney — Mrs M.H. Roberts : Now you’re saying she’s a liar. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I have never, Mr Speaker, accused Michelle Stubbs of lying—ever—have I? I actually regard her as a friend. Never ever have I said that. You should withdraw and apologise. The SPEAKER : We have been through some of this this morning and some of you know where you are with it at this point. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I know Michelle Stubbs reasonably well. I have a great deal of respect and admiration for her. I like her as a person, and I fully recognise the incredible hardship that she suffered. No-one should doubt that, and certainly not people who know Michelle. Michelle Stubbs was appointed to the Ministerial Advisory Council on Child Protection by Hon Robyn McSweeney. They obviously had many conversations, including conversations about the Redress scheme and the like. On the day in July 2009 when the minister announced that the maximum payment would be reduced from $80 000 to $45 000 and the other changes which were outlined by the Attorney General this morning and which I have just repeated, Michelle Stubbs rang Hon Robyn McSweeney. She made contact with Hon Robyn McSweeney’s office and left a message. Hon Robyn McSweeney, the minister, dutifully returned that call and they had a lengthy conversation. Understandably, Michelle Stubbs was upset, she was emotional, and the conversation went on for some time. They know each other well. It was Michelle Stubbs who rang the minister to discuss the issue. She was on the advisory council; she knew what was going on. So to come in here and accuse, as the member for Rockingham did — Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : No, you have to be big enough and man enough to take it now. This is a test of all of you now. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the first time today. Member for Kwinana, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Leader of the Opposition, do you have a supplementary question? Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I am still — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen, I am formally going to call you to order for the first time today. You have a bit to make up, member for Girrawheen. Mr P.C. Tinley interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Willagee, just for the form, I call you to order as well. Mr C.J. BARNETT : It was Michelle Stubbs who called the minister’s office to try to persuade the minister to not reduce the maximum payment. That is clear from her letter today. The minister returned her call, later in the day, and they had a quite lengthy conversation. As I understand it, they talked about the scheme. Point number one: Michelle Stubbs contacted the minister, not the other way around. Point number two: I hope that the member for Rockingham is man enough to apologise, because Hon Robyn McSweeney did not ring Michelle Stubbs to “heavy” her, which he accused her of in this Parliament and which is on the record of this Parliament. I hope he is man enough to apologise to the minister; if not in here, when he sees her in the building. Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : The final point—by way of interjection!—is that Robyn McSweeney said, in the context of a lengthy conversation in which Michelle was extremely emotional, and understandably so, that she did use words along the lines of “let it go through to the keeper”, but that is very different from the accusation that the member for Rockingham made; namely, that the minister got on the phone and “heavied” her. The other accusation made by — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Willagee, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Midland, I formally call you to order for the second time today. I am not particularly interested in being continually on my feet formally calling members to order. It is not something that I want to do on a daily basis, let alone on a minute-by-minute basis! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I will conclude. The question had an implied accusation from the Leader of the Opposition that I and my office had in some way encouraged or got Robyn McSweeney to ring up Michelle Stubbs and “heavy” her. That was the tone of the question. I will tell the Leader of the Opposition that he might do that, the Labor Party might do that, but I do not!
Mr C.J. BARNETT : I also recall very distinctly the member for Rockingham accusing Hon Robyn McSweeney of heavying—that was his expression — Mr M. McGowan : Yes. Mr C.J. BARNETT : — Michelle Stubbs. Mr M. McGowan : That’s what her letter says. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Jumping to conclusions and jumping to assertions. Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Maybe the member should listen for a little while. Hon Robyn McSweeney has professional experience, and years of experience, in dealing with children who have been abused. At least respect that. She is a professional in the area and has years of experience. Mrs M.H. Roberts : That’s why she should have known better, isn’t it? Mr C.J. BARNETT : Why do you not listen for a moment? Members opposite do not treat this seriously. Mrs M.H. Roberts : You don’t. The SPEAKER : Member for Midland, I formally call you to order for the first time today. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I just remind the house that Hon Robyn McSweeney has had years of experience in dealing with abused children. If anyone in this Parliament is sensitive to that situation, it would be her. If anyone has years of personal and professional experience in the area, it would be her—it would be Hon Robyn McSweeney—yet members opposite, and in particular the member for Rockingham, without any true knowledge of the situation, accused Hon Robyn McSweeney of ringing Michelle Stubbs and heavying her. They were the words that the member for Rockingham used. Mr M. McGowan : They were. Mr C.J. BARNETT : So I have taken the trouble, my office has taken the trouble, of being in contact with Hon Robyn McSweeney, and members opposite might be interested in the truth. “Don’t let the truth get in the way” is the Labor paradigm. But members opposite might be interested this time. Mr E.S. Ripper : I am interested. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Okay; well, why don’t you listen? I will tell you what happened. On the day — Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I will tell you what happened. On the day the announcement was made to reduce the maximum payment from $80 000 to $45 000, and the other changes that I have just outlined, Michelle Stubbs—Michelle Stubbs is a good person; I know her reasonably well—was appointed by Hon Robyn McSweeney — Mrs M.H. Roberts : Now you’re saying she’s a liar. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I have never, Mr Speaker, accused Michelle Stubbs of lying—ever—have I? I actually regard her as a friend. Never ever have I said that. You should withdraw and apologise. The SPEAKER : We have been through some of this this morning and some of you know where you are with it at this point. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I know Michelle Stubbs reasonably well. I have a great deal of respect and admiration for her. I like her as a person, and I fully recognise the incredible hardship that she suffered. No-one should doubt that, and certainly not people who know Michelle. Michelle Stubbs was appointed to the Ministerial Advisory Council on Child Protection by Hon Robyn McSweeney. They obviously had many conversations, including conversations about the Redress scheme and the like. On the day in July 2009 when the minister announced that the maximum payment would be reduced from $80 000 to $45 000 and the other changes which were outlined by the Attorney General this morning and which I have just repeated, Michelle Stubbs rang Hon Robyn McSweeney. She made contact with Hon Robyn McSweeney’s office and left a message. Hon Robyn McSweeney, the minister, dutifully returned that call and they had a lengthy conversation. Understandably, Michelle Stubbs was upset, she was emotional, and the conversation went on for some time. They know each other well. It was Michelle Stubbs who rang the minister to discuss the issue. She was on the advisory council; she knew what was going on. So to come in here and accuse, as the member for Rockingham did — Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : No, you have to be big enough and man enough to take it now. This is a test of all of you now. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the first time today. Member for Kwinana, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Leader of the Opposition, do you have a supplementary question? Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I am still — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen, I am formally going to call you to order for the first time today. You have a bit to make up, member for Girrawheen. Mr P.C. Tinley interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Willagee, just for the form, I call you to order as well. Mr C.J. BARNETT : It was Michelle Stubbs who called the minister’s office to try to persuade the minister to not reduce the maximum payment. That is clear from her letter today. The minister returned her call, later in the day, and they had a quite lengthy conversation. As I understand it, they talked about the scheme. Point number one: Michelle Stubbs contacted the minister, not the other way around. Point number two: I hope that the member for Rockingham is man enough to apologise, because Hon Robyn McSweeney did not ring Michelle Stubbs to “heavy” her, which he accused her of in this Parliament and which is on the record of this Parliament. I hope he is man enough to apologise to the minister; if not in here, when he sees her in the building. Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : The final point—by way of interjection!—is that Robyn McSweeney said, in the context of a lengthy conversation in which Michelle was extremely emotional, and understandably so, that she did use words along the lines of “let it go through to the keeper”, but that is very different from the accusation that the member for Rockingham made; namely, that the minister got on the phone and “heavied” her. The other accusation made by — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Willagee, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Midland, I formally call you to order for the second time today. I am not particularly interested in being continually on my feet formally calling members to order. It is not something that I want to do on a daily basis, let alone on a minute-by-minute basis! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I will conclude. The question had an implied accusation from the Leader of the Opposition that I and my office had in some way encouraged or got Robyn McSweeney to ring up Michelle Stubbs and “heavy” her. That was the tone of the question. I will tell the Leader of the Opposition that he might do that, the Labor Party might do that, but I do not!
Mr M. McGowan : Yes. Mr C.J. BARNETT : — Michelle Stubbs. Mr M. McGowan : That’s what her letter says. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Jumping to conclusions and jumping to assertions. Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Maybe the member should listen for a little while. Hon Robyn McSweeney has professional experience, and years of experience, in dealing with children who have been abused. At least respect that. She is a professional in the area and has years of experience. Mrs M.H. Roberts : That’s why she should have known better, isn’t it? Mr C.J. BARNETT : Why do you not listen for a moment? Members opposite do not treat this seriously. Mrs M.H. Roberts : You don’t. The SPEAKER : Member for Midland, I formally call you to order for the first time today. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I just remind the house that Hon Robyn McSweeney has had years of experience in dealing with abused children. If anyone in this Parliament is sensitive to that situation, it would be her. If anyone has years of personal and professional experience in the area, it would be her—it would be Hon Robyn McSweeney—yet members opposite, and in particular the member for Rockingham, without any true knowledge of the situation, accused Hon Robyn McSweeney of ringing Michelle Stubbs and heavying her. They were the words that the member for Rockingham used. Mr M. McGowan : They were. Mr C.J. BARNETT : So I have taken the trouble, my office has taken the trouble, of being in contact with Hon Robyn McSweeney, and members opposite might be interested in the truth. “Don’t let the truth get in the way” is the Labor paradigm. But members opposite might be interested this time. Mr E.S. Ripper : I am interested. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Okay; well, why don’t you listen? I will tell you what happened. On the day — Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I will tell you what happened. On the day the announcement was made to reduce the maximum payment from $80 000 to $45 000, and the other changes that I have just outlined, Michelle Stubbs—Michelle Stubbs is a good person; I know her reasonably well—was appointed by Hon Robyn McSweeney — Mrs M.H. Roberts : Now you’re saying she’s a liar. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I have never, Mr Speaker, accused Michelle Stubbs of lying—ever—have I? I actually regard her as a friend. Never ever have I said that. You should withdraw and apologise. The SPEAKER : We have been through some of this this morning and some of you know where you are with it at this point. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I know Michelle Stubbs reasonably well. I have a great deal of respect and admiration for her. I like her as a person, and I fully recognise the incredible hardship that she suffered. No-one should doubt that, and certainly not people who know Michelle. Michelle Stubbs was appointed to the Ministerial Advisory Council on Child Protection by Hon Robyn McSweeney. They obviously had many conversations, including conversations about the Redress scheme and the like. On the day in July 2009 when the minister announced that the maximum payment would be reduced from $80 000 to $45 000 and the other changes which were outlined by the Attorney General this morning and which I have just repeated, Michelle Stubbs rang Hon Robyn McSweeney. She made contact with Hon Robyn McSweeney’s office and left a message. Hon Robyn McSweeney, the minister, dutifully returned that call and they had a lengthy conversation. Understandably, Michelle Stubbs was upset, she was emotional, and the conversation went on for some time. They know each other well. It was Michelle Stubbs who rang the minister to discuss the issue. She was on the advisory council; she knew what was going on. So to come in here and accuse, as the member for Rockingham did — Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : No, you have to be big enough and man enough to take it now. This is a test of all of you now. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the first time today. Member for Kwinana, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Leader of the Opposition, do you have a supplementary question? Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I am still — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen, I am formally going to call you to order for the first time today. You have a bit to make up, member for Girrawheen. Mr P.C. Tinley interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Willagee, just for the form, I call you to order as well. Mr C.J. BARNETT : It was Michelle Stubbs who called the minister’s office to try to persuade the minister to not reduce the maximum payment. That is clear from her letter today. The minister returned her call, later in the day, and they had a quite lengthy conversation. As I understand it, they talked about the scheme. Point number one: Michelle Stubbs contacted the minister, not the other way around. Point number two: I hope that the member for Rockingham is man enough to apologise, because Hon Robyn McSweeney did not ring Michelle Stubbs to “heavy” her, which he accused her of in this Parliament and which is on the record of this Parliament. I hope he is man enough to apologise to the minister; if not in here, when he sees her in the building. Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : The final point—by way of interjection!—is that Robyn McSweeney said, in the context of a lengthy conversation in which Michelle was extremely emotional, and understandably so, that she did use words along the lines of “let it go through to the keeper”, but that is very different from the accusation that the member for Rockingham made; namely, that the minister got on the phone and “heavied” her. The other accusation made by — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Willagee, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Midland, I formally call you to order for the second time today. I am not particularly interested in being continually on my feet formally calling members to order. It is not something that I want to do on a daily basis, let alone on a minute-by-minute basis! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I will conclude. The question had an implied accusation from the Leader of the Opposition that I and my office had in some way encouraged or got Robyn McSweeney to ring up Michelle Stubbs and “heavy” her. That was the tone of the question. I will tell the Leader of the Opposition that he might do that, the Labor Party might do that, but I do not!
Mr C.J. BARNETT : — Michelle Stubbs. Mr M. McGowan : That’s what her letter says. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Jumping to conclusions and jumping to assertions. Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Maybe the member should listen for a little while. Hon Robyn McSweeney has professional experience, and years of experience, in dealing with children who have been abused. At least respect that. She is a professional in the area and has years of experience. Mrs M.H. Roberts : That’s why she should have known better, isn’t it? Mr C.J. BARNETT : Why do you not listen for a moment? Members opposite do not treat this seriously. Mrs M.H. Roberts : You don’t. The SPEAKER : Member for Midland, I formally call you to order for the first time today. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I just remind the house that Hon Robyn McSweeney has had years of experience in dealing with abused children. If anyone in this Parliament is sensitive to that situation, it would be her. If anyone has years of personal and professional experience in the area, it would be her—it would be Hon Robyn McSweeney—yet members opposite, and in particular the member for Rockingham, without any true knowledge of the situation, accused Hon Robyn McSweeney of ringing Michelle Stubbs and heavying her. They were the words that the member for Rockingham used. Mr M. McGowan : They were. Mr C.J. BARNETT : So I have taken the trouble, my office has taken the trouble, of being in contact with Hon Robyn McSweeney, and members opposite might be interested in the truth. “Don’t let the truth get in the way” is the Labor paradigm. But members opposite might be interested this time. Mr E.S. Ripper : I am interested. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Okay; well, why don’t you listen? I will tell you what happened. On the day — Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I will tell you what happened. On the day the announcement was made to reduce the maximum payment from $80 000 to $45 000, and the other changes that I have just outlined, Michelle Stubbs—Michelle Stubbs is a good person; I know her reasonably well—was appointed by Hon Robyn McSweeney — Mrs M.H. Roberts : Now you’re saying she’s a liar. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I have never, Mr Speaker, accused Michelle Stubbs of lying—ever—have I? I actually regard her as a friend. Never ever have I said that. You should withdraw and apologise. The SPEAKER : We have been through some of this this morning and some of you know where you are with it at this point. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I know Michelle Stubbs reasonably well. I have a great deal of respect and admiration for her. I like her as a person, and I fully recognise the incredible hardship that she suffered. No-one should doubt that, and certainly not people who know Michelle. Michelle Stubbs was appointed to the Ministerial Advisory Council on Child Protection by Hon Robyn McSweeney. They obviously had many conversations, including conversations about the Redress scheme and the like. On the day in July 2009 when the minister announced that the maximum payment would be reduced from $80 000 to $45 000 and the other changes which were outlined by the Attorney General this morning and which I have just repeated, Michelle Stubbs rang Hon Robyn McSweeney. She made contact with Hon Robyn McSweeney’s office and left a message. Hon Robyn McSweeney, the minister, dutifully returned that call and they had a lengthy conversation. Understandably, Michelle Stubbs was upset, she was emotional, and the conversation went on for some time. They know each other well. It was Michelle Stubbs who rang the minister to discuss the issue. She was on the advisory council; she knew what was going on. So to come in here and accuse, as the member for Rockingham did — Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : No, you have to be big enough and man enough to take it now. This is a test of all of you now. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the first time today. Member for Kwinana, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Leader of the Opposition, do you have a supplementary question? Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I am still — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen, I am formally going to call you to order for the first time today. You have a bit to make up, member for Girrawheen. Mr P.C. Tinley interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Willagee, just for the form, I call you to order as well. Mr C.J. BARNETT : It was Michelle Stubbs who called the minister’s office to try to persuade the minister to not reduce the maximum payment. That is clear from her letter today. The minister returned her call, later in the day, and they had a quite lengthy conversation. As I understand it, they talked about the scheme. Point number one: Michelle Stubbs contacted the minister, not the other way around. Point number two: I hope that the member for Rockingham is man enough to apologise, because Hon Robyn McSweeney did not ring Michelle Stubbs to “heavy” her, which he accused her of in this Parliament and which is on the record of this Parliament. I hope he is man enough to apologise to the minister; if not in here, when he sees her in the building. Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : The final point—by way of interjection!—is that Robyn McSweeney said, in the context of a lengthy conversation in which Michelle was extremely emotional, and understandably so, that she did use words along the lines of “let it go through to the keeper”, but that is very different from the accusation that the member for Rockingham made; namely, that the minister got on the phone and “heavied” her. The other accusation made by — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Willagee, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Midland, I formally call you to order for the second time today. I am not particularly interested in being continually on my feet formally calling members to order. It is not something that I want to do on a daily basis, let alone on a minute-by-minute basis! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I will conclude. The question had an implied accusation from the Leader of the Opposition that I and my office had in some way encouraged or got Robyn McSweeney to ring up Michelle Stubbs and “heavy” her. That was the tone of the question. I will tell the Leader of the Opposition that he might do that, the Labor Party might do that, but I do not!
Mr M. McGowan : That’s what her letter says. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Jumping to conclusions and jumping to assertions. Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Maybe the member should listen for a little while. Hon Robyn McSweeney has professional experience, and years of experience, in dealing with children who have been abused. At least respect that. She is a professional in the area and has years of experience. Mrs M.H. Roberts : That’s why she should have known better, isn’t it? Mr C.J. BARNETT : Why do you not listen for a moment? Members opposite do not treat this seriously. Mrs M.H. Roberts : You don’t. The SPEAKER : Member for Midland, I formally call you to order for the first time today. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I just remind the house that Hon Robyn McSweeney has had years of experience in dealing with abused children. If anyone in this Parliament is sensitive to that situation, it would be her. If anyone has years of personal and professional experience in the area, it would be her—it would be Hon Robyn McSweeney—yet members opposite, and in particular the member for Rockingham, without any true knowledge of the situation, accused Hon Robyn McSweeney of ringing Michelle Stubbs and heavying her. They were the words that the member for Rockingham used. Mr M. McGowan : They were. Mr C.J. BARNETT : So I have taken the trouble, my office has taken the trouble, of being in contact with Hon Robyn McSweeney, and members opposite might be interested in the truth. “Don’t let the truth get in the way” is the Labor paradigm. But members opposite might be interested this time. Mr E.S. Ripper : I am interested. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Okay; well, why don’t you listen? I will tell you what happened. On the day — Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I will tell you what happened. On the day the announcement was made to reduce the maximum payment from $80 000 to $45 000, and the other changes that I have just outlined, Michelle Stubbs—Michelle Stubbs is a good person; I know her reasonably well—was appointed by Hon Robyn McSweeney — Mrs M.H. Roberts : Now you’re saying she’s a liar. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I have never, Mr Speaker, accused Michelle Stubbs of lying—ever—have I? I actually regard her as a friend. Never ever have I said that. You should withdraw and apologise. The SPEAKER : We have been through some of this this morning and some of you know where you are with it at this point. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I know Michelle Stubbs reasonably well. I have a great deal of respect and admiration for her. I like her as a person, and I fully recognise the incredible hardship that she suffered. No-one should doubt that, and certainly not people who know Michelle. Michelle Stubbs was appointed to the Ministerial Advisory Council on Child Protection by Hon Robyn McSweeney. They obviously had many conversations, including conversations about the Redress scheme and the like. On the day in July 2009 when the minister announced that the maximum payment would be reduced from $80 000 to $45 000 and the other changes which were outlined by the Attorney General this morning and which I have just repeated, Michelle Stubbs rang Hon Robyn McSweeney. She made contact with Hon Robyn McSweeney’s office and left a message. Hon Robyn McSweeney, the minister, dutifully returned that call and they had a lengthy conversation. Understandably, Michelle Stubbs was upset, she was emotional, and the conversation went on for some time. They know each other well. It was Michelle Stubbs who rang the minister to discuss the issue. She was on the advisory council; she knew what was going on. So to come in here and accuse, as the member for Rockingham did — Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : No, you have to be big enough and man enough to take it now. This is a test of all of you now. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the first time today. Member for Kwinana, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Leader of the Opposition, do you have a supplementary question? Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I am still — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen, I am formally going to call you to order for the first time today. You have a bit to make up, member for Girrawheen. Mr P.C. Tinley interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Willagee, just for the form, I call you to order as well. Mr C.J. BARNETT : It was Michelle Stubbs who called the minister’s office to try to persuade the minister to not reduce the maximum payment. That is clear from her letter today. The minister returned her call, later in the day, and they had a quite lengthy conversation. As I understand it, they talked about the scheme. Point number one: Michelle Stubbs contacted the minister, not the other way around. Point number two: I hope that the member for Rockingham is man enough to apologise, because Hon Robyn McSweeney did not ring Michelle Stubbs to “heavy” her, which he accused her of in this Parliament and which is on the record of this Parliament. I hope he is man enough to apologise to the minister; if not in here, when he sees her in the building. Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : The final point—by way of interjection!—is that Robyn McSweeney said, in the context of a lengthy conversation in which Michelle was extremely emotional, and understandably so, that she did use words along the lines of “let it go through to the keeper”, but that is very different from the accusation that the member for Rockingham made; namely, that the minister got on the phone and “heavied” her. The other accusation made by — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Willagee, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Midland, I formally call you to order for the second time today. I am not particularly interested in being continually on my feet formally calling members to order. It is not something that I want to do on a daily basis, let alone on a minute-by-minute basis! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I will conclude. The question had an implied accusation from the Leader of the Opposition that I and my office had in some way encouraged or got Robyn McSweeney to ring up Michelle Stubbs and “heavy” her. That was the tone of the question. I will tell the Leader of the Opposition that he might do that, the Labor Party might do that, but I do not!
Mr C.J. BARNETT : Jumping to conclusions and jumping to assertions. Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Maybe the member should listen for a little while. Hon Robyn McSweeney has professional experience, and years of experience, in dealing with children who have been abused. At least respect that. She is a professional in the area and has years of experience. Mrs M.H. Roberts : That’s why she should have known better, isn’t it? Mr C.J. BARNETT : Why do you not listen for a moment? Members opposite do not treat this seriously. Mrs M.H. Roberts : You don’t. The SPEAKER : Member for Midland, I formally call you to order for the first time today. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I just remind the house that Hon Robyn McSweeney has had years of experience in dealing with abused children. If anyone in this Parliament is sensitive to that situation, it would be her. If anyone has years of personal and professional experience in the area, it would be her—it would be Hon Robyn McSweeney—yet members opposite, and in particular the member for Rockingham, without any true knowledge of the situation, accused Hon Robyn McSweeney of ringing Michelle Stubbs and heavying her. They were the words that the member for Rockingham used. Mr M. McGowan : They were. Mr C.J. BARNETT : So I have taken the trouble, my office has taken the trouble, of being in contact with Hon Robyn McSweeney, and members opposite might be interested in the truth. “Don’t let the truth get in the way” is the Labor paradigm. But members opposite might be interested this time. Mr E.S. Ripper : I am interested. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Okay; well, why don’t you listen? I will tell you what happened. On the day — Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I will tell you what happened. On the day the announcement was made to reduce the maximum payment from $80 000 to $45 000, and the other changes that I have just outlined, Michelle Stubbs—Michelle Stubbs is a good person; I know her reasonably well—was appointed by Hon Robyn McSweeney — Mrs M.H. Roberts : Now you’re saying she’s a liar. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I have never, Mr Speaker, accused Michelle Stubbs of lying—ever—have I? I actually regard her as a friend. Never ever have I said that. You should withdraw and apologise. The SPEAKER : We have been through some of this this morning and some of you know where you are with it at this point. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I know Michelle Stubbs reasonably well. I have a great deal of respect and admiration for her. I like her as a person, and I fully recognise the incredible hardship that she suffered. No-one should doubt that, and certainly not people who know Michelle. Michelle Stubbs was appointed to the Ministerial Advisory Council on Child Protection by Hon Robyn McSweeney. They obviously had many conversations, including conversations about the Redress scheme and the like. On the day in July 2009 when the minister announced that the maximum payment would be reduced from $80 000 to $45 000 and the other changes which were outlined by the Attorney General this morning and which I have just repeated, Michelle Stubbs rang Hon Robyn McSweeney. She made contact with Hon Robyn McSweeney’s office and left a message. Hon Robyn McSweeney, the minister, dutifully returned that call and they had a lengthy conversation. Understandably, Michelle Stubbs was upset, she was emotional, and the conversation went on for some time. They know each other well. It was Michelle Stubbs who rang the minister to discuss the issue. She was on the advisory council; she knew what was going on. So to come in here and accuse, as the member for Rockingham did — Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : No, you have to be big enough and man enough to take it now. This is a test of all of you now. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the first time today. Member for Kwinana, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Leader of the Opposition, do you have a supplementary question? Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I am still — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen, I am formally going to call you to order for the first time today. You have a bit to make up, member for Girrawheen. Mr P.C. Tinley interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Willagee, just for the form, I call you to order as well. Mr C.J. BARNETT : It was Michelle Stubbs who called the minister’s office to try to persuade the minister to not reduce the maximum payment. That is clear from her letter today. The minister returned her call, later in the day, and they had a quite lengthy conversation. As I understand it, they talked about the scheme. Point number one: Michelle Stubbs contacted the minister, not the other way around. Point number two: I hope that the member for Rockingham is man enough to apologise, because Hon Robyn McSweeney did not ring Michelle Stubbs to “heavy” her, which he accused her of in this Parliament and which is on the record of this Parliament. I hope he is man enough to apologise to the minister; if not in here, when he sees her in the building. Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : The final point—by way of interjection!—is that Robyn McSweeney said, in the context of a lengthy conversation in which Michelle was extremely emotional, and understandably so, that she did use words along the lines of “let it go through to the keeper”, but that is very different from the accusation that the member for Rockingham made; namely, that the minister got on the phone and “heavied” her. The other accusation made by — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Willagee, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Midland, I formally call you to order for the second time today. I am not particularly interested in being continually on my feet formally calling members to order. It is not something that I want to do on a daily basis, let alone on a minute-by-minute basis! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I will conclude. The question had an implied accusation from the Leader of the Opposition that I and my office had in some way encouraged or got Robyn McSweeney to ring up Michelle Stubbs and “heavy” her. That was the tone of the question. I will tell the Leader of the Opposition that he might do that, the Labor Party might do that, but I do not!
Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Maybe the member should listen for a little while. Hon Robyn McSweeney has professional experience, and years of experience, in dealing with children who have been abused. At least respect that. She is a professional in the area and has years of experience. Mrs M.H. Roberts : That’s why she should have known better, isn’t it? Mr C.J. BARNETT : Why do you not listen for a moment? Members opposite do not treat this seriously. Mrs M.H. Roberts : You don’t. The SPEAKER : Member for Midland, I formally call you to order for the first time today. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I just remind the house that Hon Robyn McSweeney has had years of experience in dealing with abused children. If anyone in this Parliament is sensitive to that situation, it would be her. If anyone has years of personal and professional experience in the area, it would be her—it would be Hon Robyn McSweeney—yet members opposite, and in particular the member for Rockingham, without any true knowledge of the situation, accused Hon Robyn McSweeney of ringing Michelle Stubbs and heavying her. They were the words that the member for Rockingham used. Mr M. McGowan : They were. Mr C.J. BARNETT : So I have taken the trouble, my office has taken the trouble, of being in contact with Hon Robyn McSweeney, and members opposite might be interested in the truth. “Don’t let the truth get in the way” is the Labor paradigm. But members opposite might be interested this time. Mr E.S. Ripper : I am interested. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Okay; well, why don’t you listen? I will tell you what happened. On the day — Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I will tell you what happened. On the day the announcement was made to reduce the maximum payment from $80 000 to $45 000, and the other changes that I have just outlined, Michelle Stubbs—Michelle Stubbs is a good person; I know her reasonably well—was appointed by Hon Robyn McSweeney — Mrs M.H. Roberts : Now you’re saying she’s a liar. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I have never, Mr Speaker, accused Michelle Stubbs of lying—ever—have I? I actually regard her as a friend. Never ever have I said that. You should withdraw and apologise. The SPEAKER : We have been through some of this this morning and some of you know where you are with it at this point. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I know Michelle Stubbs reasonably well. I have a great deal of respect and admiration for her. I like her as a person, and I fully recognise the incredible hardship that she suffered. No-one should doubt that, and certainly not people who know Michelle. Michelle Stubbs was appointed to the Ministerial Advisory Council on Child Protection by Hon Robyn McSweeney. They obviously had many conversations, including conversations about the Redress scheme and the like. On the day in July 2009 when the minister announced that the maximum payment would be reduced from $80 000 to $45 000 and the other changes which were outlined by the Attorney General this morning and which I have just repeated, Michelle Stubbs rang Hon Robyn McSweeney. She made contact with Hon Robyn McSweeney’s office and left a message. Hon Robyn McSweeney, the minister, dutifully returned that call and they had a lengthy conversation. Understandably, Michelle Stubbs was upset, she was emotional, and the conversation went on for some time. They know each other well. It was Michelle Stubbs who rang the minister to discuss the issue. She was on the advisory council; she knew what was going on. So to come in here and accuse, as the member for Rockingham did — Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : No, you have to be big enough and man enough to take it now. This is a test of all of you now. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the first time today. Member for Kwinana, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Leader of the Opposition, do you have a supplementary question? Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I am still — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen, I am formally going to call you to order for the first time today. You have a bit to make up, member for Girrawheen. Mr P.C. Tinley interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Willagee, just for the form, I call you to order as well. Mr C.J. BARNETT : It was Michelle Stubbs who called the minister’s office to try to persuade the minister to not reduce the maximum payment. That is clear from her letter today. The minister returned her call, later in the day, and they had a quite lengthy conversation. As I understand it, they talked about the scheme. Point number one: Michelle Stubbs contacted the minister, not the other way around. Point number two: I hope that the member for Rockingham is man enough to apologise, because Hon Robyn McSweeney did not ring Michelle Stubbs to “heavy” her, which he accused her of in this Parliament and which is on the record of this Parliament. I hope he is man enough to apologise to the minister; if not in here, when he sees her in the building. Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : The final point—by way of interjection!—is that Robyn McSweeney said, in the context of a lengthy conversation in which Michelle was extremely emotional, and understandably so, that she did use words along the lines of “let it go through to the keeper”, but that is very different from the accusation that the member for Rockingham made; namely, that the minister got on the phone and “heavied” her. The other accusation made by — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Willagee, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Midland, I formally call you to order for the second time today. I am not particularly interested in being continually on my feet formally calling members to order. It is not something that I want to do on a daily basis, let alone on a minute-by-minute basis! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I will conclude. The question had an implied accusation from the Leader of the Opposition that I and my office had in some way encouraged or got Robyn McSweeney to ring up Michelle Stubbs and “heavy” her. That was the tone of the question. I will tell the Leader of the Opposition that he might do that, the Labor Party might do that, but I do not!
Mr C.J. BARNETT : Maybe the member should listen for a little while. Hon Robyn McSweeney has professional experience, and years of experience, in dealing with children who have been abused. At least respect that. She is a professional in the area and has years of experience. Mrs M.H. Roberts : That’s why she should have known better, isn’t it? Mr C.J. BARNETT : Why do you not listen for a moment? Members opposite do not treat this seriously. Mrs M.H. Roberts : You don’t. The SPEAKER : Member for Midland, I formally call you to order for the first time today. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I just remind the house that Hon Robyn McSweeney has had years of experience in dealing with abused children. If anyone in this Parliament is sensitive to that situation, it would be her. If anyone has years of personal and professional experience in the area, it would be her—it would be Hon Robyn McSweeney—yet members opposite, and in particular the member for Rockingham, without any true knowledge of the situation, accused Hon Robyn McSweeney of ringing Michelle Stubbs and heavying her. They were the words that the member for Rockingham used. Mr M. McGowan : They were. Mr C.J. BARNETT : So I have taken the trouble, my office has taken the trouble, of being in contact with Hon Robyn McSweeney, and members opposite might be interested in the truth. “Don’t let the truth get in the way” is the Labor paradigm. But members opposite might be interested this time. Mr E.S. Ripper : I am interested. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Okay; well, why don’t you listen? I will tell you what happened. On the day — Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I will tell you what happened. On the day the announcement was made to reduce the maximum payment from $80 000 to $45 000, and the other changes that I have just outlined, Michelle Stubbs—Michelle Stubbs is a good person; I know her reasonably well—was appointed by Hon Robyn McSweeney — Mrs M.H. Roberts : Now you’re saying she’s a liar. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I have never, Mr Speaker, accused Michelle Stubbs of lying—ever—have I? I actually regard her as a friend. Never ever have I said that. You should withdraw and apologise. The SPEAKER : We have been through some of this this morning and some of you know where you are with it at this point. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I know Michelle Stubbs reasonably well. I have a great deal of respect and admiration for her. I like her as a person, and I fully recognise the incredible hardship that she suffered. No-one should doubt that, and certainly not people who know Michelle. Michelle Stubbs was appointed to the Ministerial Advisory Council on Child Protection by Hon Robyn McSweeney. They obviously had many conversations, including conversations about the Redress scheme and the like. On the day in July 2009 when the minister announced that the maximum payment would be reduced from $80 000 to $45 000 and the other changes which were outlined by the Attorney General this morning and which I have just repeated, Michelle Stubbs rang Hon Robyn McSweeney. She made contact with Hon Robyn McSweeney’s office and left a message. Hon Robyn McSweeney, the minister, dutifully returned that call and they had a lengthy conversation. Understandably, Michelle Stubbs was upset, she was emotional, and the conversation went on for some time. They know each other well. It was Michelle Stubbs who rang the minister to discuss the issue. She was on the advisory council; she knew what was going on. So to come in here and accuse, as the member for Rockingham did — Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : No, you have to be big enough and man enough to take it now. This is a test of all of you now. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the first time today. Member for Kwinana, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Leader of the Opposition, do you have a supplementary question? Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I am still — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen, I am formally going to call you to order for the first time today. You have a bit to make up, member for Girrawheen. Mr P.C. Tinley interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Willagee, just for the form, I call you to order as well. Mr C.J. BARNETT : It was Michelle Stubbs who called the minister’s office to try to persuade the minister to not reduce the maximum payment. That is clear from her letter today. The minister returned her call, later in the day, and they had a quite lengthy conversation. As I understand it, they talked about the scheme. Point number one: Michelle Stubbs contacted the minister, not the other way around. Point number two: I hope that the member for Rockingham is man enough to apologise, because Hon Robyn McSweeney did not ring Michelle Stubbs to “heavy” her, which he accused her of in this Parliament and which is on the record of this Parliament. I hope he is man enough to apologise to the minister; if not in here, when he sees her in the building. Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : The final point—by way of interjection!—is that Robyn McSweeney said, in the context of a lengthy conversation in which Michelle was extremely emotional, and understandably so, that she did use words along the lines of “let it go through to the keeper”, but that is very different from the accusation that the member for Rockingham made; namely, that the minister got on the phone and “heavied” her. The other accusation made by — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Willagee, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Midland, I formally call you to order for the second time today. I am not particularly interested in being continually on my feet formally calling members to order. It is not something that I want to do on a daily basis, let alone on a minute-by-minute basis! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I will conclude. The question had an implied accusation from the Leader of the Opposition that I and my office had in some way encouraged or got Robyn McSweeney to ring up Michelle Stubbs and “heavy” her. That was the tone of the question. I will tell the Leader of the Opposition that he might do that, the Labor Party might do that, but I do not!
Hon Robyn McSweeney has professional experience, and years of experience, in dealing with children who have been abused. At least respect that. She is a professional in the area and has years of experience. Mrs M.H. Roberts : That’s why she should have known better, isn’t it? Mr C.J. BARNETT : Why do you not listen for a moment? Members opposite do not treat this seriously. Mrs M.H. Roberts : You don’t. The SPEAKER : Member for Midland, I formally call you to order for the first time today. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I just remind the house that Hon Robyn McSweeney has had years of experience in dealing with abused children. If anyone in this Parliament is sensitive to that situation, it would be her. If anyone has years of personal and professional experience in the area, it would be her—it would be Hon Robyn McSweeney—yet members opposite, and in particular the member for Rockingham, without any true knowledge of the situation, accused Hon Robyn McSweeney of ringing Michelle Stubbs and heavying her. They were the words that the member for Rockingham used. Mr M. McGowan : They were. Mr C.J. BARNETT : So I have taken the trouble, my office has taken the trouble, of being in contact with Hon Robyn McSweeney, and members opposite might be interested in the truth. “Don’t let the truth get in the way” is the Labor paradigm. But members opposite might be interested this time. Mr E.S. Ripper : I am interested. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Okay; well, why don’t you listen? I will tell you what happened. On the day — Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I will tell you what happened. On the day the announcement was made to reduce the maximum payment from $80 000 to $45 000, and the other changes that I have just outlined, Michelle Stubbs—Michelle Stubbs is a good person; I know her reasonably well—was appointed by Hon Robyn McSweeney — Mrs M.H. Roberts : Now you’re saying she’s a liar. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I have never, Mr Speaker, accused Michelle Stubbs of lying—ever—have I? I actually regard her as a friend. Never ever have I said that. You should withdraw and apologise. The SPEAKER : We have been through some of this this morning and some of you know where you are with it at this point. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I know Michelle Stubbs reasonably well. I have a great deal of respect and admiration for her. I like her as a person, and I fully recognise the incredible hardship that she suffered. No-one should doubt that, and certainly not people who know Michelle. Michelle Stubbs was appointed to the Ministerial Advisory Council on Child Protection by Hon Robyn McSweeney. They obviously had many conversations, including conversations about the Redress scheme and the like. On the day in July 2009 when the minister announced that the maximum payment would be reduced from $80 000 to $45 000 and the other changes which were outlined by the Attorney General this morning and which I have just repeated, Michelle Stubbs rang Hon Robyn McSweeney. She made contact with Hon Robyn McSweeney’s office and left a message. Hon Robyn McSweeney, the minister, dutifully returned that call and they had a lengthy conversation. Understandably, Michelle Stubbs was upset, she was emotional, and the conversation went on for some time. They know each other well. It was Michelle Stubbs who rang the minister to discuss the issue. She was on the advisory council; she knew what was going on. So to come in here and accuse, as the member for Rockingham did — Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : No, you have to be big enough and man enough to take it now. This is a test of all of you now. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the first time today. Member for Kwinana, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Leader of the Opposition, do you have a supplementary question? Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I am still — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen, I am formally going to call you to order for the first time today. You have a bit to make up, member for Girrawheen. Mr P.C. Tinley interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Willagee, just for the form, I call you to order as well. Mr C.J. BARNETT : It was Michelle Stubbs who called the minister’s office to try to persuade the minister to not reduce the maximum payment. That is clear from her letter today. The minister returned her call, later in the day, and they had a quite lengthy conversation. As I understand it, they talked about the scheme. Point number one: Michelle Stubbs contacted the minister, not the other way around. Point number two: I hope that the member for Rockingham is man enough to apologise, because Hon Robyn McSweeney did not ring Michelle Stubbs to “heavy” her, which he accused her of in this Parliament and which is on the record of this Parliament. I hope he is man enough to apologise to the minister; if not in here, when he sees her in the building. Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : The final point—by way of interjection!—is that Robyn McSweeney said, in the context of a lengthy conversation in which Michelle was extremely emotional, and understandably so, that she did use words along the lines of “let it go through to the keeper”, but that is very different from the accusation that the member for Rockingham made; namely, that the minister got on the phone and “heavied” her. The other accusation made by — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Willagee, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Midland, I formally call you to order for the second time today. I am not particularly interested in being continually on my feet formally calling members to order. It is not something that I want to do on a daily basis, let alone on a minute-by-minute basis! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I will conclude. The question had an implied accusation from the Leader of the Opposition that I and my office had in some way encouraged or got Robyn McSweeney to ring up Michelle Stubbs and “heavy” her. That was the tone of the question. I will tell the Leader of the Opposition that he might do that, the Labor Party might do that, but I do not!
Mrs M.H. Roberts : That’s why she should have known better, isn’t it? Mr C.J. BARNETT : Why do you not listen for a moment? Members opposite do not treat this seriously. Mrs M.H. Roberts : You don’t. The SPEAKER : Member for Midland, I formally call you to order for the first time today. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I just remind the house that Hon Robyn McSweeney has had years of experience in dealing with abused children. If anyone in this Parliament is sensitive to that situation, it would be her. If anyone has years of personal and professional experience in the area, it would be her—it would be Hon Robyn McSweeney—yet members opposite, and in particular the member for Rockingham, without any true knowledge of the situation, accused Hon Robyn McSweeney of ringing Michelle Stubbs and heavying her. They were the words that the member for Rockingham used. Mr M. McGowan : They were. Mr C.J. BARNETT : So I have taken the trouble, my office has taken the trouble, of being in contact with Hon Robyn McSweeney, and members opposite might be interested in the truth. “Don’t let the truth get in the way” is the Labor paradigm. But members opposite might be interested this time. Mr E.S. Ripper : I am interested. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Okay; well, why don’t you listen? I will tell you what happened. On the day — Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I will tell you what happened. On the day the announcement was made to reduce the maximum payment from $80 000 to $45 000, and the other changes that I have just outlined, Michelle Stubbs—Michelle Stubbs is a good person; I know her reasonably well—was appointed by Hon Robyn McSweeney — Mrs M.H. Roberts : Now you’re saying she’s a liar. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I have never, Mr Speaker, accused Michelle Stubbs of lying—ever—have I? I actually regard her as a friend. Never ever have I said that. You should withdraw and apologise. The SPEAKER : We have been through some of this this morning and some of you know where you are with it at this point. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I know Michelle Stubbs reasonably well. I have a great deal of respect and admiration for her. I like her as a person, and I fully recognise the incredible hardship that she suffered. No-one should doubt that, and certainly not people who know Michelle. Michelle Stubbs was appointed to the Ministerial Advisory Council on Child Protection by Hon Robyn McSweeney. They obviously had many conversations, including conversations about the Redress scheme and the like. On the day in July 2009 when the minister announced that the maximum payment would be reduced from $80 000 to $45 000 and the other changes which were outlined by the Attorney General this morning and which I have just repeated, Michelle Stubbs rang Hon Robyn McSweeney. She made contact with Hon Robyn McSweeney’s office and left a message. Hon Robyn McSweeney, the minister, dutifully returned that call and they had a lengthy conversation. Understandably, Michelle Stubbs was upset, she was emotional, and the conversation went on for some time. They know each other well. It was Michelle Stubbs who rang the minister to discuss the issue. She was on the advisory council; she knew what was going on. So to come in here and accuse, as the member for Rockingham did — Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : No, you have to be big enough and man enough to take it now. This is a test of all of you now. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the first time today. Member for Kwinana, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Leader of the Opposition, do you have a supplementary question? Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I am still — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen, I am formally going to call you to order for the first time today. You have a bit to make up, member for Girrawheen. Mr P.C. Tinley interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Willagee, just for the form, I call you to order as well. Mr C.J. BARNETT : It was Michelle Stubbs who called the minister’s office to try to persuade the minister to not reduce the maximum payment. That is clear from her letter today. The minister returned her call, later in the day, and they had a quite lengthy conversation. As I understand it, they talked about the scheme. Point number one: Michelle Stubbs contacted the minister, not the other way around. Point number two: I hope that the member for Rockingham is man enough to apologise, because Hon Robyn McSweeney did not ring Michelle Stubbs to “heavy” her, which he accused her of in this Parliament and which is on the record of this Parliament. I hope he is man enough to apologise to the minister; if not in here, when he sees her in the building. Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : The final point—by way of interjection!—is that Robyn McSweeney said, in the context of a lengthy conversation in which Michelle was extremely emotional, and understandably so, that she did use words along the lines of “let it go through to the keeper”, but that is very different from the accusation that the member for Rockingham made; namely, that the minister got on the phone and “heavied” her. The other accusation made by — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Willagee, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Midland, I formally call you to order for the second time today. I am not particularly interested in being continually on my feet formally calling members to order. It is not something that I want to do on a daily basis, let alone on a minute-by-minute basis! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I will conclude. The question had an implied accusation from the Leader of the Opposition that I and my office had in some way encouraged or got Robyn McSweeney to ring up Michelle Stubbs and “heavy” her. That was the tone of the question. I will tell the Leader of the Opposition that he might do that, the Labor Party might do that, but I do not!
Mr C.J. BARNETT : Why do you not listen for a moment? Members opposite do not treat this seriously. Mrs M.H. Roberts : You don’t. The SPEAKER : Member for Midland, I formally call you to order for the first time today. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I just remind the house that Hon Robyn McSweeney has had years of experience in dealing with abused children. If anyone in this Parliament is sensitive to that situation, it would be her. If anyone has years of personal and professional experience in the area, it would be her—it would be Hon Robyn McSweeney—yet members opposite, and in particular the member for Rockingham, without any true knowledge of the situation, accused Hon Robyn McSweeney of ringing Michelle Stubbs and heavying her. They were the words that the member for Rockingham used. Mr M. McGowan : They were. Mr C.J. BARNETT : So I have taken the trouble, my office has taken the trouble, of being in contact with Hon Robyn McSweeney, and members opposite might be interested in the truth. “Don’t let the truth get in the way” is the Labor paradigm. But members opposite might be interested this time. Mr E.S. Ripper : I am interested. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Okay; well, why don’t you listen? I will tell you what happened. On the day — Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I will tell you what happened. On the day the announcement was made to reduce the maximum payment from $80 000 to $45 000, and the other changes that I have just outlined, Michelle Stubbs—Michelle Stubbs is a good person; I know her reasonably well—was appointed by Hon Robyn McSweeney — Mrs M.H. Roberts : Now you’re saying she’s a liar. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I have never, Mr Speaker, accused Michelle Stubbs of lying—ever—have I? I actually regard her as a friend. Never ever have I said that. You should withdraw and apologise. The SPEAKER : We have been through some of this this morning and some of you know where you are with it at this point. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I know Michelle Stubbs reasonably well. I have a great deal of respect and admiration for her. I like her as a person, and I fully recognise the incredible hardship that she suffered. No-one should doubt that, and certainly not people who know Michelle. Michelle Stubbs was appointed to the Ministerial Advisory Council on Child Protection by Hon Robyn McSweeney. They obviously had many conversations, including conversations about the Redress scheme and the like. On the day in July 2009 when the minister announced that the maximum payment would be reduced from $80 000 to $45 000 and the other changes which were outlined by the Attorney General this morning and which I have just repeated, Michelle Stubbs rang Hon Robyn McSweeney. She made contact with Hon Robyn McSweeney’s office and left a message. Hon Robyn McSweeney, the minister, dutifully returned that call and they had a lengthy conversation. Understandably, Michelle Stubbs was upset, she was emotional, and the conversation went on for some time. They know each other well. It was Michelle Stubbs who rang the minister to discuss the issue. She was on the advisory council; she knew what was going on. So to come in here and accuse, as the member for Rockingham did — Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : No, you have to be big enough and man enough to take it now. This is a test of all of you now. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the first time today. Member for Kwinana, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Leader of the Opposition, do you have a supplementary question? Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I am still — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen, I am formally going to call you to order for the first time today. You have a bit to make up, member for Girrawheen. Mr P.C. Tinley interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Willagee, just for the form, I call you to order as well. Mr C.J. BARNETT : It was Michelle Stubbs who called the minister’s office to try to persuade the minister to not reduce the maximum payment. That is clear from her letter today. The minister returned her call, later in the day, and they had a quite lengthy conversation. As I understand it, they talked about the scheme. Point number one: Michelle Stubbs contacted the minister, not the other way around. Point number two: I hope that the member for Rockingham is man enough to apologise, because Hon Robyn McSweeney did not ring Michelle Stubbs to “heavy” her, which he accused her of in this Parliament and which is on the record of this Parliament. I hope he is man enough to apologise to the minister; if not in here, when he sees her in the building. Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : The final point—by way of interjection!—is that Robyn McSweeney said, in the context of a lengthy conversation in which Michelle was extremely emotional, and understandably so, that she did use words along the lines of “let it go through to the keeper”, but that is very different from the accusation that the member for Rockingham made; namely, that the minister got on the phone and “heavied” her. The other accusation made by — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Willagee, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Midland, I formally call you to order for the second time today. I am not particularly interested in being continually on my feet formally calling members to order. It is not something that I want to do on a daily basis, let alone on a minute-by-minute basis! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I will conclude. The question had an implied accusation from the Leader of the Opposition that I and my office had in some way encouraged or got Robyn McSweeney to ring up Michelle Stubbs and “heavy” her. That was the tone of the question. I will tell the Leader of the Opposition that he might do that, the Labor Party might do that, but I do not!
Mrs M.H. Roberts : You don’t. The SPEAKER : Member for Midland, I formally call you to order for the first time today. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I just remind the house that Hon Robyn McSweeney has had years of experience in dealing with abused children. If anyone in this Parliament is sensitive to that situation, it would be her. If anyone has years of personal and professional experience in the area, it would be her—it would be Hon Robyn McSweeney—yet members opposite, and in particular the member for Rockingham, without any true knowledge of the situation, accused Hon Robyn McSweeney of ringing Michelle Stubbs and heavying her. They were the words that the member for Rockingham used. Mr M. McGowan : They were. Mr C.J. BARNETT : So I have taken the trouble, my office has taken the trouble, of being in contact with Hon Robyn McSweeney, and members opposite might be interested in the truth. “Don’t let the truth get in the way” is the Labor paradigm. But members opposite might be interested this time. Mr E.S. Ripper : I am interested. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Okay; well, why don’t you listen? I will tell you what happened. On the day — Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I will tell you what happened. On the day the announcement was made to reduce the maximum payment from $80 000 to $45 000, and the other changes that I have just outlined, Michelle Stubbs—Michelle Stubbs is a good person; I know her reasonably well—was appointed by Hon Robyn McSweeney — Mrs M.H. Roberts : Now you’re saying she’s a liar. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I have never, Mr Speaker, accused Michelle Stubbs of lying—ever—have I? I actually regard her as a friend. Never ever have I said that. You should withdraw and apologise. The SPEAKER : We have been through some of this this morning and some of you know where you are with it at this point. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I know Michelle Stubbs reasonably well. I have a great deal of respect and admiration for her. I like her as a person, and I fully recognise the incredible hardship that she suffered. No-one should doubt that, and certainly not people who know Michelle. Michelle Stubbs was appointed to the Ministerial Advisory Council on Child Protection by Hon Robyn McSweeney. They obviously had many conversations, including conversations about the Redress scheme and the like. On the day in July 2009 when the minister announced that the maximum payment would be reduced from $80 000 to $45 000 and the other changes which were outlined by the Attorney General this morning and which I have just repeated, Michelle Stubbs rang Hon Robyn McSweeney. She made contact with Hon Robyn McSweeney’s office and left a message. Hon Robyn McSweeney, the minister, dutifully returned that call and they had a lengthy conversation. Understandably, Michelle Stubbs was upset, she was emotional, and the conversation went on for some time. They know each other well. It was Michelle Stubbs who rang the minister to discuss the issue. She was on the advisory council; she knew what was going on. So to come in here and accuse, as the member for Rockingham did — Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : No, you have to be big enough and man enough to take it now. This is a test of all of you now. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the first time today. Member for Kwinana, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Leader of the Opposition, do you have a supplementary question? Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I am still — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen, I am formally going to call you to order for the first time today. You have a bit to make up, member for Girrawheen. Mr P.C. Tinley interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Willagee, just for the form, I call you to order as well. Mr C.J. BARNETT : It was Michelle Stubbs who called the minister’s office to try to persuade the minister to not reduce the maximum payment. That is clear from her letter today. The minister returned her call, later in the day, and they had a quite lengthy conversation. As I understand it, they talked about the scheme. Point number one: Michelle Stubbs contacted the minister, not the other way around. Point number two: I hope that the member for Rockingham is man enough to apologise, because Hon Robyn McSweeney did not ring Michelle Stubbs to “heavy” her, which he accused her of in this Parliament and which is on the record of this Parliament. I hope he is man enough to apologise to the minister; if not in here, when he sees her in the building. Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : The final point—by way of interjection!—is that Robyn McSweeney said, in the context of a lengthy conversation in which Michelle was extremely emotional, and understandably so, that she did use words along the lines of “let it go through to the keeper”, but that is very different from the accusation that the member for Rockingham made; namely, that the minister got on the phone and “heavied” her. The other accusation made by — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Willagee, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Midland, I formally call you to order for the second time today. I am not particularly interested in being continually on my feet formally calling members to order. It is not something that I want to do on a daily basis, let alone on a minute-by-minute basis! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I will conclude. The question had an implied accusation from the Leader of the Opposition that I and my office had in some way encouraged or got Robyn McSweeney to ring up Michelle Stubbs and “heavy” her. That was the tone of the question. I will tell the Leader of the Opposition that he might do that, the Labor Party might do that, but I do not!
The SPEAKER : Member for Midland, I formally call you to order for the first time today. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I just remind the house that Hon Robyn McSweeney has had years of experience in dealing with abused children. If anyone in this Parliament is sensitive to that situation, it would be her. If anyone has years of personal and professional experience in the area, it would be her—it would be Hon Robyn McSweeney—yet members opposite, and in particular the member for Rockingham, without any true knowledge of the situation, accused Hon Robyn McSweeney of ringing Michelle Stubbs and heavying her. They were the words that the member for Rockingham used. Mr M. McGowan : They were. Mr C.J. BARNETT : So I have taken the trouble, my office has taken the trouble, of being in contact with Hon Robyn McSweeney, and members opposite might be interested in the truth. “Don’t let the truth get in the way” is the Labor paradigm. But members opposite might be interested this time. Mr E.S. Ripper : I am interested. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Okay; well, why don’t you listen? I will tell you what happened. On the day — Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I will tell you what happened. On the day the announcement was made to reduce the maximum payment from $80 000 to $45 000, and the other changes that I have just outlined, Michelle Stubbs—Michelle Stubbs is a good person; I know her reasonably well—was appointed by Hon Robyn McSweeney — Mrs M.H. Roberts : Now you’re saying she’s a liar. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I have never, Mr Speaker, accused Michelle Stubbs of lying—ever—have I? I actually regard her as a friend. Never ever have I said that. You should withdraw and apologise. The SPEAKER : We have been through some of this this morning and some of you know where you are with it at this point. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I know Michelle Stubbs reasonably well. I have a great deal of respect and admiration for her. I like her as a person, and I fully recognise the incredible hardship that she suffered. No-one should doubt that, and certainly not people who know Michelle. Michelle Stubbs was appointed to the Ministerial Advisory Council on Child Protection by Hon Robyn McSweeney. They obviously had many conversations, including conversations about the Redress scheme and the like. On the day in July 2009 when the minister announced that the maximum payment would be reduced from $80 000 to $45 000 and the other changes which were outlined by the Attorney General this morning and which I have just repeated, Michelle Stubbs rang Hon Robyn McSweeney. She made contact with Hon Robyn McSweeney’s office and left a message. Hon Robyn McSweeney, the minister, dutifully returned that call and they had a lengthy conversation. Understandably, Michelle Stubbs was upset, she was emotional, and the conversation went on for some time. They know each other well. It was Michelle Stubbs who rang the minister to discuss the issue. She was on the advisory council; she knew what was going on. So to come in here and accuse, as the member for Rockingham did — Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : No, you have to be big enough and man enough to take it now. This is a test of all of you now. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the first time today. Member for Kwinana, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Leader of the Opposition, do you have a supplementary question? Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I am still — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen, I am formally going to call you to order for the first time today. You have a bit to make up, member for Girrawheen. Mr P.C. Tinley interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Willagee, just for the form, I call you to order as well. Mr C.J. BARNETT : It was Michelle Stubbs who called the minister’s office to try to persuade the minister to not reduce the maximum payment. That is clear from her letter today. The minister returned her call, later in the day, and they had a quite lengthy conversation. As I understand it, they talked about the scheme. Point number one: Michelle Stubbs contacted the minister, not the other way around. Point number two: I hope that the member for Rockingham is man enough to apologise, because Hon Robyn McSweeney did not ring Michelle Stubbs to “heavy” her, which he accused her of in this Parliament and which is on the record of this Parliament. I hope he is man enough to apologise to the minister; if not in here, when he sees her in the building. Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : The final point—by way of interjection!—is that Robyn McSweeney said, in the context of a lengthy conversation in which Michelle was extremely emotional, and understandably so, that she did use words along the lines of “let it go through to the keeper”, but that is very different from the accusation that the member for Rockingham made; namely, that the minister got on the phone and “heavied” her. The other accusation made by — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Willagee, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Midland, I formally call you to order for the second time today. I am not particularly interested in being continually on my feet formally calling members to order. It is not something that I want to do on a daily basis, let alone on a minute-by-minute basis! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I will conclude. The question had an implied accusation from the Leader of the Opposition that I and my office had in some way encouraged or got Robyn McSweeney to ring up Michelle Stubbs and “heavy” her. That was the tone of the question. I will tell the Leader of the Opposition that he might do that, the Labor Party might do that, but I do not!
Mr C.J. BARNETT : I just remind the house that Hon Robyn McSweeney has had years of experience in dealing with abused children. If anyone in this Parliament is sensitive to that situation, it would be her. If anyone has years of personal and professional experience in the area, it would be her—it would be Hon Robyn McSweeney—yet members opposite, and in particular the member for Rockingham, without any true knowledge of the situation, accused Hon Robyn McSweeney of ringing Michelle Stubbs and heavying her. They were the words that the member for Rockingham used. Mr M. McGowan : They were. Mr C.J. BARNETT : So I have taken the trouble, my office has taken the trouble, of being in contact with Hon Robyn McSweeney, and members opposite might be interested in the truth. “Don’t let the truth get in the way” is the Labor paradigm. But members opposite might be interested this time. Mr E.S. Ripper : I am interested. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Okay; well, why don’t you listen? I will tell you what happened. On the day — Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I will tell you what happened. On the day the announcement was made to reduce the maximum payment from $80 000 to $45 000, and the other changes that I have just outlined, Michelle Stubbs—Michelle Stubbs is a good person; I know her reasonably well—was appointed by Hon Robyn McSweeney — Mrs M.H. Roberts : Now you’re saying she’s a liar. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I have never, Mr Speaker, accused Michelle Stubbs of lying—ever—have I? I actually regard her as a friend. Never ever have I said that. You should withdraw and apologise. The SPEAKER : We have been through some of this this morning and some of you know where you are with it at this point. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I know Michelle Stubbs reasonably well. I have a great deal of respect and admiration for her. I like her as a person, and I fully recognise the incredible hardship that she suffered. No-one should doubt that, and certainly not people who know Michelle. Michelle Stubbs was appointed to the Ministerial Advisory Council on Child Protection by Hon Robyn McSweeney. They obviously had many conversations, including conversations about the Redress scheme and the like. On the day in July 2009 when the minister announced that the maximum payment would be reduced from $80 000 to $45 000 and the other changes which were outlined by the Attorney General this morning and which I have just repeated, Michelle Stubbs rang Hon Robyn McSweeney. She made contact with Hon Robyn McSweeney’s office and left a message. Hon Robyn McSweeney, the minister, dutifully returned that call and they had a lengthy conversation. Understandably, Michelle Stubbs was upset, she was emotional, and the conversation went on for some time. They know each other well. It was Michelle Stubbs who rang the minister to discuss the issue. She was on the advisory council; she knew what was going on. So to come in here and accuse, as the member for Rockingham did — Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : No, you have to be big enough and man enough to take it now. This is a test of all of you now. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the first time today. Member for Kwinana, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Leader of the Opposition, do you have a supplementary question? Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I am still — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen, I am formally going to call you to order for the first time today. You have a bit to make up, member for Girrawheen. Mr P.C. Tinley interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Willagee, just for the form, I call you to order as well. Mr C.J. BARNETT : It was Michelle Stubbs who called the minister’s office to try to persuade the minister to not reduce the maximum payment. That is clear from her letter today. The minister returned her call, later in the day, and they had a quite lengthy conversation. As I understand it, they talked about the scheme. Point number one: Michelle Stubbs contacted the minister, not the other way around. Point number two: I hope that the member for Rockingham is man enough to apologise, because Hon Robyn McSweeney did not ring Michelle Stubbs to “heavy” her, which he accused her of in this Parliament and which is on the record of this Parliament. I hope he is man enough to apologise to the minister; if not in here, when he sees her in the building. Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : The final point—by way of interjection!—is that Robyn McSweeney said, in the context of a lengthy conversation in which Michelle was extremely emotional, and understandably so, that she did use words along the lines of “let it go through to the keeper”, but that is very different from the accusation that the member for Rockingham made; namely, that the minister got on the phone and “heavied” her. The other accusation made by — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Willagee, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Midland, I formally call you to order for the second time today. I am not particularly interested in being continually on my feet formally calling members to order. It is not something that I want to do on a daily basis, let alone on a minute-by-minute basis! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I will conclude. The question had an implied accusation from the Leader of the Opposition that I and my office had in some way encouraged or got Robyn McSweeney to ring up Michelle Stubbs and “heavy” her. That was the tone of the question. I will tell the Leader of the Opposition that he might do that, the Labor Party might do that, but I do not!
Mr M. McGowan : They were. Mr C.J. BARNETT : So I have taken the trouble, my office has taken the trouble, of being in contact with Hon Robyn McSweeney, and members opposite might be interested in the truth. “Don’t let the truth get in the way” is the Labor paradigm. But members opposite might be interested this time. Mr E.S. Ripper : I am interested. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Okay; well, why don’t you listen? I will tell you what happened. On the day — Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I will tell you what happened. On the day the announcement was made to reduce the maximum payment from $80 000 to $45 000, and the other changes that I have just outlined, Michelle Stubbs—Michelle Stubbs is a good person; I know her reasonably well—was appointed by Hon Robyn McSweeney — Mrs M.H. Roberts : Now you’re saying she’s a liar. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I have never, Mr Speaker, accused Michelle Stubbs of lying—ever—have I? I actually regard her as a friend. Never ever have I said that. You should withdraw and apologise. The SPEAKER : We have been through some of this this morning and some of you know where you are with it at this point. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I know Michelle Stubbs reasonably well. I have a great deal of respect and admiration for her. I like her as a person, and I fully recognise the incredible hardship that she suffered. No-one should doubt that, and certainly not people who know Michelle. Michelle Stubbs was appointed to the Ministerial Advisory Council on Child Protection by Hon Robyn McSweeney. They obviously had many conversations, including conversations about the Redress scheme and the like. On the day in July 2009 when the minister announced that the maximum payment would be reduced from $80 000 to $45 000 and the other changes which were outlined by the Attorney General this morning and which I have just repeated, Michelle Stubbs rang Hon Robyn McSweeney. She made contact with Hon Robyn McSweeney’s office and left a message. Hon Robyn McSweeney, the minister, dutifully returned that call and they had a lengthy conversation. Understandably, Michelle Stubbs was upset, she was emotional, and the conversation went on for some time. They know each other well. It was Michelle Stubbs who rang the minister to discuss the issue. She was on the advisory council; she knew what was going on. So to come in here and accuse, as the member for Rockingham did — Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : No, you have to be big enough and man enough to take it now. This is a test of all of you now. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the first time today. Member for Kwinana, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Leader of the Opposition, do you have a supplementary question? Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I am still — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen, I am formally going to call you to order for the first time today. You have a bit to make up, member for Girrawheen. Mr P.C. Tinley interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Willagee, just for the form, I call you to order as well. Mr C.J. BARNETT : It was Michelle Stubbs who called the minister’s office to try to persuade the minister to not reduce the maximum payment. That is clear from her letter today. The minister returned her call, later in the day, and they had a quite lengthy conversation. As I understand it, they talked about the scheme. Point number one: Michelle Stubbs contacted the minister, not the other way around. Point number two: I hope that the member for Rockingham is man enough to apologise, because Hon Robyn McSweeney did not ring Michelle Stubbs to “heavy” her, which he accused her of in this Parliament and which is on the record of this Parliament. I hope he is man enough to apologise to the minister; if not in here, when he sees her in the building. Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : The final point—by way of interjection!—is that Robyn McSweeney said, in the context of a lengthy conversation in which Michelle was extremely emotional, and understandably so, that she did use words along the lines of “let it go through to the keeper”, but that is very different from the accusation that the member for Rockingham made; namely, that the minister got on the phone and “heavied” her. The other accusation made by — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Willagee, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Midland, I formally call you to order for the second time today. I am not particularly interested in being continually on my feet formally calling members to order. It is not something that I want to do on a daily basis, let alone on a minute-by-minute basis! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I will conclude. The question had an implied accusation from the Leader of the Opposition that I and my office had in some way encouraged or got Robyn McSweeney to ring up Michelle Stubbs and “heavy” her. That was the tone of the question. I will tell the Leader of the Opposition that he might do that, the Labor Party might do that, but I do not!
Mr C.J. BARNETT : So I have taken the trouble, my office has taken the trouble, of being in contact with Hon Robyn McSweeney, and members opposite might be interested in the truth. “Don’t let the truth get in the way” is the Labor paradigm. But members opposite might be interested this time. Mr E.S. Ripper : I am interested. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Okay; well, why don’t you listen? I will tell you what happened. On the day — Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I will tell you what happened. On the day the announcement was made to reduce the maximum payment from $80 000 to $45 000, and the other changes that I have just outlined, Michelle Stubbs—Michelle Stubbs is a good person; I know her reasonably well—was appointed by Hon Robyn McSweeney — Mrs M.H. Roberts : Now you’re saying she’s a liar. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I have never, Mr Speaker, accused Michelle Stubbs of lying—ever—have I? I actually regard her as a friend. Never ever have I said that. You should withdraw and apologise. The SPEAKER : We have been through some of this this morning and some of you know where you are with it at this point. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I know Michelle Stubbs reasonably well. I have a great deal of respect and admiration for her. I like her as a person, and I fully recognise the incredible hardship that she suffered. No-one should doubt that, and certainly not people who know Michelle. Michelle Stubbs was appointed to the Ministerial Advisory Council on Child Protection by Hon Robyn McSweeney. They obviously had many conversations, including conversations about the Redress scheme and the like. On the day in July 2009 when the minister announced that the maximum payment would be reduced from $80 000 to $45 000 and the other changes which were outlined by the Attorney General this morning and which I have just repeated, Michelle Stubbs rang Hon Robyn McSweeney. She made contact with Hon Robyn McSweeney’s office and left a message. Hon Robyn McSweeney, the minister, dutifully returned that call and they had a lengthy conversation. Understandably, Michelle Stubbs was upset, she was emotional, and the conversation went on for some time. They know each other well. It was Michelle Stubbs who rang the minister to discuss the issue. She was on the advisory council; she knew what was going on. So to come in here and accuse, as the member for Rockingham did — Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : No, you have to be big enough and man enough to take it now. This is a test of all of you now. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the first time today. Member for Kwinana, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Leader of the Opposition, do you have a supplementary question? Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I am still — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen, I am formally going to call you to order for the first time today. You have a bit to make up, member for Girrawheen. Mr P.C. Tinley interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Willagee, just for the form, I call you to order as well. Mr C.J. BARNETT : It was Michelle Stubbs who called the minister’s office to try to persuade the minister to not reduce the maximum payment. That is clear from her letter today. The minister returned her call, later in the day, and they had a quite lengthy conversation. As I understand it, they talked about the scheme. Point number one: Michelle Stubbs contacted the minister, not the other way around. Point number two: I hope that the member for Rockingham is man enough to apologise, because Hon Robyn McSweeney did not ring Michelle Stubbs to “heavy” her, which he accused her of in this Parliament and which is on the record of this Parliament. I hope he is man enough to apologise to the minister; if not in here, when he sees her in the building. Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : The final point—by way of interjection!—is that Robyn McSweeney said, in the context of a lengthy conversation in which Michelle was extremely emotional, and understandably so, that she did use words along the lines of “let it go through to the keeper”, but that is very different from the accusation that the member for Rockingham made; namely, that the minister got on the phone and “heavied” her. The other accusation made by — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Willagee, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Midland, I formally call you to order for the second time today. I am not particularly interested in being continually on my feet formally calling members to order. It is not something that I want to do on a daily basis, let alone on a minute-by-minute basis! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I will conclude. The question had an implied accusation from the Leader of the Opposition that I and my office had in some way encouraged or got Robyn McSweeney to ring up Michelle Stubbs and “heavy” her. That was the tone of the question. I will tell the Leader of the Opposition that he might do that, the Labor Party might do that, but I do not!
Mr E.S. Ripper : I am interested. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Okay; well, why don’t you listen? I will tell you what happened. On the day — Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I will tell you what happened. On the day the announcement was made to reduce the maximum payment from $80 000 to $45 000, and the other changes that I have just outlined, Michelle Stubbs—Michelle Stubbs is a good person; I know her reasonably well—was appointed by Hon Robyn McSweeney — Mrs M.H. Roberts : Now you’re saying she’s a liar. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I have never, Mr Speaker, accused Michelle Stubbs of lying—ever—have I? I actually regard her as a friend. Never ever have I said that. You should withdraw and apologise. The SPEAKER : We have been through some of this this morning and some of you know where you are with it at this point. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I know Michelle Stubbs reasonably well. I have a great deal of respect and admiration for her. I like her as a person, and I fully recognise the incredible hardship that she suffered. No-one should doubt that, and certainly not people who know Michelle. Michelle Stubbs was appointed to the Ministerial Advisory Council on Child Protection by Hon Robyn McSweeney. They obviously had many conversations, including conversations about the Redress scheme and the like. On the day in July 2009 when the minister announced that the maximum payment would be reduced from $80 000 to $45 000 and the other changes which were outlined by the Attorney General this morning and which I have just repeated, Michelle Stubbs rang Hon Robyn McSweeney. She made contact with Hon Robyn McSweeney’s office and left a message. Hon Robyn McSweeney, the minister, dutifully returned that call and they had a lengthy conversation. Understandably, Michelle Stubbs was upset, she was emotional, and the conversation went on for some time. They know each other well. It was Michelle Stubbs who rang the minister to discuss the issue. She was on the advisory council; she knew what was going on. So to come in here and accuse, as the member for Rockingham did — Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : No, you have to be big enough and man enough to take it now. This is a test of all of you now. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the first time today. Member for Kwinana, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Leader of the Opposition, do you have a supplementary question? Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I am still — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen, I am formally going to call you to order for the first time today. You have a bit to make up, member for Girrawheen. Mr P.C. Tinley interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Willagee, just for the form, I call you to order as well. Mr C.J. BARNETT : It was Michelle Stubbs who called the minister’s office to try to persuade the minister to not reduce the maximum payment. That is clear from her letter today. The minister returned her call, later in the day, and they had a quite lengthy conversation. As I understand it, they talked about the scheme. Point number one: Michelle Stubbs contacted the minister, not the other way around. Point number two: I hope that the member for Rockingham is man enough to apologise, because Hon Robyn McSweeney did not ring Michelle Stubbs to “heavy” her, which he accused her of in this Parliament and which is on the record of this Parliament. I hope he is man enough to apologise to the minister; if not in here, when he sees her in the building. Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : The final point—by way of interjection!—is that Robyn McSweeney said, in the context of a lengthy conversation in which Michelle was extremely emotional, and understandably so, that she did use words along the lines of “let it go through to the keeper”, but that is very different from the accusation that the member for Rockingham made; namely, that the minister got on the phone and “heavied” her. The other accusation made by — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Willagee, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Midland, I formally call you to order for the second time today. I am not particularly interested in being continually on my feet formally calling members to order. It is not something that I want to do on a daily basis, let alone on a minute-by-minute basis! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I will conclude. The question had an implied accusation from the Leader of the Opposition that I and my office had in some way encouraged or got Robyn McSweeney to ring up Michelle Stubbs and “heavy” her. That was the tone of the question. I will tell the Leader of the Opposition that he might do that, the Labor Party might do that, but I do not!
Mr C.J. BARNETT : Okay; well, why don’t you listen? I will tell you what happened. On the day — Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I will tell you what happened. On the day the announcement was made to reduce the maximum payment from $80 000 to $45 000, and the other changes that I have just outlined, Michelle Stubbs—Michelle Stubbs is a good person; I know her reasonably well—was appointed by Hon Robyn McSweeney — Mrs M.H. Roberts : Now you’re saying she’s a liar. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I have never, Mr Speaker, accused Michelle Stubbs of lying—ever—have I? I actually regard her as a friend. Never ever have I said that. You should withdraw and apologise. The SPEAKER : We have been through some of this this morning and some of you know where you are with it at this point. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I know Michelle Stubbs reasonably well. I have a great deal of respect and admiration for her. I like her as a person, and I fully recognise the incredible hardship that she suffered. No-one should doubt that, and certainly not people who know Michelle. Michelle Stubbs was appointed to the Ministerial Advisory Council on Child Protection by Hon Robyn McSweeney. They obviously had many conversations, including conversations about the Redress scheme and the like. On the day in July 2009 when the minister announced that the maximum payment would be reduced from $80 000 to $45 000 and the other changes which were outlined by the Attorney General this morning and which I have just repeated, Michelle Stubbs rang Hon Robyn McSweeney. She made contact with Hon Robyn McSweeney’s office and left a message. Hon Robyn McSweeney, the minister, dutifully returned that call and they had a lengthy conversation. Understandably, Michelle Stubbs was upset, she was emotional, and the conversation went on for some time. They know each other well. It was Michelle Stubbs who rang the minister to discuss the issue. She was on the advisory council; she knew what was going on. So to come in here and accuse, as the member for Rockingham did — Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : No, you have to be big enough and man enough to take it now. This is a test of all of you now. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the first time today. Member for Kwinana, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Leader of the Opposition, do you have a supplementary question? Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I am still — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen, I am formally going to call you to order for the first time today. You have a bit to make up, member for Girrawheen. Mr P.C. Tinley interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Willagee, just for the form, I call you to order as well. Mr C.J. BARNETT : It was Michelle Stubbs who called the minister’s office to try to persuade the minister to not reduce the maximum payment. That is clear from her letter today. The minister returned her call, later in the day, and they had a quite lengthy conversation. As I understand it, they talked about the scheme. Point number one: Michelle Stubbs contacted the minister, not the other way around. Point number two: I hope that the member for Rockingham is man enough to apologise, because Hon Robyn McSweeney did not ring Michelle Stubbs to “heavy” her, which he accused her of in this Parliament and which is on the record of this Parliament. I hope he is man enough to apologise to the minister; if not in here, when he sees her in the building. Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : The final point—by way of interjection!—is that Robyn McSweeney said, in the context of a lengthy conversation in which Michelle was extremely emotional, and understandably so, that she did use words along the lines of “let it go through to the keeper”, but that is very different from the accusation that the member for Rockingham made; namely, that the minister got on the phone and “heavied” her. The other accusation made by — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Willagee, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Midland, I formally call you to order for the second time today. I am not particularly interested in being continually on my feet formally calling members to order. It is not something that I want to do on a daily basis, let alone on a minute-by-minute basis! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I will conclude. The question had an implied accusation from the Leader of the Opposition that I and my office had in some way encouraged or got Robyn McSweeney to ring up Michelle Stubbs and “heavy” her. That was the tone of the question. I will tell the Leader of the Opposition that he might do that, the Labor Party might do that, but I do not!
Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I will tell you what happened. On the day the announcement was made to reduce the maximum payment from $80 000 to $45 000, and the other changes that I have just outlined, Michelle Stubbs—Michelle Stubbs is a good person; I know her reasonably well—was appointed by Hon Robyn McSweeney — Mrs M.H. Roberts : Now you’re saying she’s a liar. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I have never, Mr Speaker, accused Michelle Stubbs of lying—ever—have I? I actually regard her as a friend. Never ever have I said that. You should withdraw and apologise. The SPEAKER : We have been through some of this this morning and some of you know where you are with it at this point. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I know Michelle Stubbs reasonably well. I have a great deal of respect and admiration for her. I like her as a person, and I fully recognise the incredible hardship that she suffered. No-one should doubt that, and certainly not people who know Michelle. Michelle Stubbs was appointed to the Ministerial Advisory Council on Child Protection by Hon Robyn McSweeney. They obviously had many conversations, including conversations about the Redress scheme and the like. On the day in July 2009 when the minister announced that the maximum payment would be reduced from $80 000 to $45 000 and the other changes which were outlined by the Attorney General this morning and which I have just repeated, Michelle Stubbs rang Hon Robyn McSweeney. She made contact with Hon Robyn McSweeney’s office and left a message. Hon Robyn McSweeney, the minister, dutifully returned that call and they had a lengthy conversation. Understandably, Michelle Stubbs was upset, she was emotional, and the conversation went on for some time. They know each other well. It was Michelle Stubbs who rang the minister to discuss the issue. She was on the advisory council; she knew what was going on. So to come in here and accuse, as the member for Rockingham did — Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : No, you have to be big enough and man enough to take it now. This is a test of all of you now. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the first time today. Member for Kwinana, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Leader of the Opposition, do you have a supplementary question? Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I am still — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen, I am formally going to call you to order for the first time today. You have a bit to make up, member for Girrawheen. Mr P.C. Tinley interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Willagee, just for the form, I call you to order as well. Mr C.J. BARNETT : It was Michelle Stubbs who called the minister’s office to try to persuade the minister to not reduce the maximum payment. That is clear from her letter today. The minister returned her call, later in the day, and they had a quite lengthy conversation. As I understand it, they talked about the scheme. Point number one: Michelle Stubbs contacted the minister, not the other way around. Point number two: I hope that the member for Rockingham is man enough to apologise, because Hon Robyn McSweeney did not ring Michelle Stubbs to “heavy” her, which he accused her of in this Parliament and which is on the record of this Parliament. I hope he is man enough to apologise to the minister; if not in here, when he sees her in the building. Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : The final point—by way of interjection!—is that Robyn McSweeney said, in the context of a lengthy conversation in which Michelle was extremely emotional, and understandably so, that she did use words along the lines of “let it go through to the keeper”, but that is very different from the accusation that the member for Rockingham made; namely, that the minister got on the phone and “heavied” her. The other accusation made by — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Willagee, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Midland, I formally call you to order for the second time today. I am not particularly interested in being continually on my feet formally calling members to order. It is not something that I want to do on a daily basis, let alone on a minute-by-minute basis! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I will conclude. The question had an implied accusation from the Leader of the Opposition that I and my office had in some way encouraged or got Robyn McSweeney to ring up Michelle Stubbs and “heavy” her. That was the tone of the question. I will tell the Leader of the Opposition that he might do that, the Labor Party might do that, but I do not!
Mr C.J. BARNETT : I will tell you what happened. On the day the announcement was made to reduce the maximum payment from $80 000 to $45 000, and the other changes that I have just outlined, Michelle Stubbs—Michelle Stubbs is a good person; I know her reasonably well—was appointed by Hon Robyn McSweeney — Mrs M.H. Roberts : Now you’re saying she’s a liar. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I have never, Mr Speaker, accused Michelle Stubbs of lying—ever—have I? I actually regard her as a friend. Never ever have I said that. You should withdraw and apologise. The SPEAKER : We have been through some of this this morning and some of you know where you are with it at this point. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I know Michelle Stubbs reasonably well. I have a great deal of respect and admiration for her. I like her as a person, and I fully recognise the incredible hardship that she suffered. No-one should doubt that, and certainly not people who know Michelle. Michelle Stubbs was appointed to the Ministerial Advisory Council on Child Protection by Hon Robyn McSweeney. They obviously had many conversations, including conversations about the Redress scheme and the like. On the day in July 2009 when the minister announced that the maximum payment would be reduced from $80 000 to $45 000 and the other changes which were outlined by the Attorney General this morning and which I have just repeated, Michelle Stubbs rang Hon Robyn McSweeney. She made contact with Hon Robyn McSweeney’s office and left a message. Hon Robyn McSweeney, the minister, dutifully returned that call and they had a lengthy conversation. Understandably, Michelle Stubbs was upset, she was emotional, and the conversation went on for some time. They know each other well. It was Michelle Stubbs who rang the minister to discuss the issue. She was on the advisory council; she knew what was going on. So to come in here and accuse, as the member for Rockingham did — Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : No, you have to be big enough and man enough to take it now. This is a test of all of you now. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the first time today. Member for Kwinana, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Leader of the Opposition, do you have a supplementary question? Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I am still — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen, I am formally going to call you to order for the first time today. You have a bit to make up, member for Girrawheen. Mr P.C. Tinley interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Willagee, just for the form, I call you to order as well. Mr C.J. BARNETT : It was Michelle Stubbs who called the minister’s office to try to persuade the minister to not reduce the maximum payment. That is clear from her letter today. The minister returned her call, later in the day, and they had a quite lengthy conversation. As I understand it, they talked about the scheme. Point number one: Michelle Stubbs contacted the minister, not the other way around. Point number two: I hope that the member for Rockingham is man enough to apologise, because Hon Robyn McSweeney did not ring Michelle Stubbs to “heavy” her, which he accused her of in this Parliament and which is on the record of this Parliament. I hope he is man enough to apologise to the minister; if not in here, when he sees her in the building. Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : The final point—by way of interjection!—is that Robyn McSweeney said, in the context of a lengthy conversation in which Michelle was extremely emotional, and understandably so, that she did use words along the lines of “let it go through to the keeper”, but that is very different from the accusation that the member for Rockingham made; namely, that the minister got on the phone and “heavied” her. The other accusation made by — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Willagee, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Midland, I formally call you to order for the second time today. I am not particularly interested in being continually on my feet formally calling members to order. It is not something that I want to do on a daily basis, let alone on a minute-by-minute basis! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I will conclude. The question had an implied accusation from the Leader of the Opposition that I and my office had in some way encouraged or got Robyn McSweeney to ring up Michelle Stubbs and “heavy” her. That was the tone of the question. I will tell the Leader of the Opposition that he might do that, the Labor Party might do that, but I do not!
Mrs M.H. Roberts : Now you’re saying she’s a liar. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I have never, Mr Speaker, accused Michelle Stubbs of lying—ever—have I? I actually regard her as a friend. Never ever have I said that. You should withdraw and apologise. The SPEAKER : We have been through some of this this morning and some of you know where you are with it at this point. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I know Michelle Stubbs reasonably well. I have a great deal of respect and admiration for her. I like her as a person, and I fully recognise the incredible hardship that she suffered. No-one should doubt that, and certainly not people who know Michelle. Michelle Stubbs was appointed to the Ministerial Advisory Council on Child Protection by Hon Robyn McSweeney. They obviously had many conversations, including conversations about the Redress scheme and the like. On the day in July 2009 when the minister announced that the maximum payment would be reduced from $80 000 to $45 000 and the other changes which were outlined by the Attorney General this morning and which I have just repeated, Michelle Stubbs rang Hon Robyn McSweeney. She made contact with Hon Robyn McSweeney’s office and left a message. Hon Robyn McSweeney, the minister, dutifully returned that call and they had a lengthy conversation. Understandably, Michelle Stubbs was upset, she was emotional, and the conversation went on for some time. They know each other well. It was Michelle Stubbs who rang the minister to discuss the issue. She was on the advisory council; she knew what was going on. So to come in here and accuse, as the member for Rockingham did — Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : No, you have to be big enough and man enough to take it now. This is a test of all of you now. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the first time today. Member for Kwinana, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Leader of the Opposition, do you have a supplementary question? Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I am still — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen, I am formally going to call you to order for the first time today. You have a bit to make up, member for Girrawheen. Mr P.C. Tinley interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Willagee, just for the form, I call you to order as well. Mr C.J. BARNETT : It was Michelle Stubbs who called the minister’s office to try to persuade the minister to not reduce the maximum payment. That is clear from her letter today. The minister returned her call, later in the day, and they had a quite lengthy conversation. As I understand it, they talked about the scheme. Point number one: Michelle Stubbs contacted the minister, not the other way around. Point number two: I hope that the member for Rockingham is man enough to apologise, because Hon Robyn McSweeney did not ring Michelle Stubbs to “heavy” her, which he accused her of in this Parliament and which is on the record of this Parliament. I hope he is man enough to apologise to the minister; if not in here, when he sees her in the building. Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : The final point—by way of interjection!—is that Robyn McSweeney said, in the context of a lengthy conversation in which Michelle was extremely emotional, and understandably so, that she did use words along the lines of “let it go through to the keeper”, but that is very different from the accusation that the member for Rockingham made; namely, that the minister got on the phone and “heavied” her. The other accusation made by — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Willagee, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Midland, I formally call you to order for the second time today. I am not particularly interested in being continually on my feet formally calling members to order. It is not something that I want to do on a daily basis, let alone on a minute-by-minute basis! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I will conclude. The question had an implied accusation from the Leader of the Opposition that I and my office had in some way encouraged or got Robyn McSweeney to ring up Michelle Stubbs and “heavy” her. That was the tone of the question. I will tell the Leader of the Opposition that he might do that, the Labor Party might do that, but I do not!
Mr C.J. BARNETT : I have never, Mr Speaker, accused Michelle Stubbs of lying—ever—have I? I actually regard her as a friend. Never ever have I said that. You should withdraw and apologise. The SPEAKER : We have been through some of this this morning and some of you know where you are with it at this point. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I know Michelle Stubbs reasonably well. I have a great deal of respect and admiration for her. I like her as a person, and I fully recognise the incredible hardship that she suffered. No-one should doubt that, and certainly not people who know Michelle. Michelle Stubbs was appointed to the Ministerial Advisory Council on Child Protection by Hon Robyn McSweeney. They obviously had many conversations, including conversations about the Redress scheme and the like. On the day in July 2009 when the minister announced that the maximum payment would be reduced from $80 000 to $45 000 and the other changes which were outlined by the Attorney General this morning and which I have just repeated, Michelle Stubbs rang Hon Robyn McSweeney. She made contact with Hon Robyn McSweeney’s office and left a message. Hon Robyn McSweeney, the minister, dutifully returned that call and they had a lengthy conversation. Understandably, Michelle Stubbs was upset, she was emotional, and the conversation went on for some time. They know each other well. It was Michelle Stubbs who rang the minister to discuss the issue. She was on the advisory council; she knew what was going on. So to come in here and accuse, as the member for Rockingham did — Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : No, you have to be big enough and man enough to take it now. This is a test of all of you now. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the first time today. Member for Kwinana, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Leader of the Opposition, do you have a supplementary question? Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I am still — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen, I am formally going to call you to order for the first time today. You have a bit to make up, member for Girrawheen. Mr P.C. Tinley interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Willagee, just for the form, I call you to order as well. Mr C.J. BARNETT : It was Michelle Stubbs who called the minister’s office to try to persuade the minister to not reduce the maximum payment. That is clear from her letter today. The minister returned her call, later in the day, and they had a quite lengthy conversation. As I understand it, they talked about the scheme. Point number one: Michelle Stubbs contacted the minister, not the other way around. Point number two: I hope that the member for Rockingham is man enough to apologise, because Hon Robyn McSweeney did not ring Michelle Stubbs to “heavy” her, which he accused her of in this Parliament and which is on the record of this Parliament. I hope he is man enough to apologise to the minister; if not in here, when he sees her in the building. Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : The final point—by way of interjection!—is that Robyn McSweeney said, in the context of a lengthy conversation in which Michelle was extremely emotional, and understandably so, that she did use words along the lines of “let it go through to the keeper”, but that is very different from the accusation that the member for Rockingham made; namely, that the minister got on the phone and “heavied” her. The other accusation made by — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Willagee, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Midland, I formally call you to order for the second time today. I am not particularly interested in being continually on my feet formally calling members to order. It is not something that I want to do on a daily basis, let alone on a minute-by-minute basis! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I will conclude. The question had an implied accusation from the Leader of the Opposition that I and my office had in some way encouraged or got Robyn McSweeney to ring up Michelle Stubbs and “heavy” her. That was the tone of the question. I will tell the Leader of the Opposition that he might do that, the Labor Party might do that, but I do not!
The SPEAKER : We have been through some of this this morning and some of you know where you are with it at this point. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I know Michelle Stubbs reasonably well. I have a great deal of respect and admiration for her. I like her as a person, and I fully recognise the incredible hardship that she suffered. No-one should doubt that, and certainly not people who know Michelle. Michelle Stubbs was appointed to the Ministerial Advisory Council on Child Protection by Hon Robyn McSweeney. They obviously had many conversations, including conversations about the Redress scheme and the like. On the day in July 2009 when the minister announced that the maximum payment would be reduced from $80 000 to $45 000 and the other changes which were outlined by the Attorney General this morning and which I have just repeated, Michelle Stubbs rang Hon Robyn McSweeney. She made contact with Hon Robyn McSweeney’s office and left a message. Hon Robyn McSweeney, the minister, dutifully returned that call and they had a lengthy conversation. Understandably, Michelle Stubbs was upset, she was emotional, and the conversation went on for some time. They know each other well. It was Michelle Stubbs who rang the minister to discuss the issue. She was on the advisory council; she knew what was going on. So to come in here and accuse, as the member for Rockingham did — Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : No, you have to be big enough and man enough to take it now. This is a test of all of you now. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the first time today. Member for Kwinana, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Leader of the Opposition, do you have a supplementary question? Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I am still — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen, I am formally going to call you to order for the first time today. You have a bit to make up, member for Girrawheen. Mr P.C. Tinley interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Willagee, just for the form, I call you to order as well. Mr C.J. BARNETT : It was Michelle Stubbs who called the minister’s office to try to persuade the minister to not reduce the maximum payment. That is clear from her letter today. The minister returned her call, later in the day, and they had a quite lengthy conversation. As I understand it, they talked about the scheme. Point number one: Michelle Stubbs contacted the minister, not the other way around. Point number two: I hope that the member for Rockingham is man enough to apologise, because Hon Robyn McSweeney did not ring Michelle Stubbs to “heavy” her, which he accused her of in this Parliament and which is on the record of this Parliament. I hope he is man enough to apologise to the minister; if not in here, when he sees her in the building. Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : The final point—by way of interjection!—is that Robyn McSweeney said, in the context of a lengthy conversation in which Michelle was extremely emotional, and understandably so, that she did use words along the lines of “let it go through to the keeper”, but that is very different from the accusation that the member for Rockingham made; namely, that the minister got on the phone and “heavied” her. The other accusation made by — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Willagee, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Midland, I formally call you to order for the second time today. I am not particularly interested in being continually on my feet formally calling members to order. It is not something that I want to do on a daily basis, let alone on a minute-by-minute basis! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I will conclude. The question had an implied accusation from the Leader of the Opposition that I and my office had in some way encouraged or got Robyn McSweeney to ring up Michelle Stubbs and “heavy” her. That was the tone of the question. I will tell the Leader of the Opposition that he might do that, the Labor Party might do that, but I do not!
Mr C.J. BARNETT : I know Michelle Stubbs reasonably well. I have a great deal of respect and admiration for her. I like her as a person, and I fully recognise the incredible hardship that she suffered. No-one should doubt that, and certainly not people who know Michelle. Michelle Stubbs was appointed to the Ministerial Advisory Council on Child Protection by Hon Robyn McSweeney. They obviously had many conversations, including conversations about the Redress scheme and the like. On the day in July 2009 when the minister announced that the maximum payment would be reduced from $80 000 to $45 000 and the other changes which were outlined by the Attorney General this morning and which I have just repeated, Michelle Stubbs rang Hon Robyn McSweeney. She made contact with Hon Robyn McSweeney’s office and left a message. Hon Robyn McSweeney, the minister, dutifully returned that call and they had a lengthy conversation. Understandably, Michelle Stubbs was upset, she was emotional, and the conversation went on for some time. They know each other well. It was Michelle Stubbs who rang the minister to discuss the issue. She was on the advisory council; she knew what was going on. So to come in here and accuse, as the member for Rockingham did — Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : No, you have to be big enough and man enough to take it now. This is a test of all of you now. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the first time today. Member for Kwinana, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Leader of the Opposition, do you have a supplementary question? Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I am still — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen, I am formally going to call you to order for the first time today. You have a bit to make up, member for Girrawheen. Mr P.C. Tinley interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Willagee, just for the form, I call you to order as well. Mr C.J. BARNETT : It was Michelle Stubbs who called the minister’s office to try to persuade the minister to not reduce the maximum payment. That is clear from her letter today. The minister returned her call, later in the day, and they had a quite lengthy conversation. As I understand it, they talked about the scheme. Point number one: Michelle Stubbs contacted the minister, not the other way around. Point number two: I hope that the member for Rockingham is man enough to apologise, because Hon Robyn McSweeney did not ring Michelle Stubbs to “heavy” her, which he accused her of in this Parliament and which is on the record of this Parliament. I hope he is man enough to apologise to the minister; if not in here, when he sees her in the building. Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : The final point—by way of interjection!—is that Robyn McSweeney said, in the context of a lengthy conversation in which Michelle was extremely emotional, and understandably so, that she did use words along the lines of “let it go through to the keeper”, but that is very different from the accusation that the member for Rockingham made; namely, that the minister got on the phone and “heavied” her. The other accusation made by — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Willagee, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Midland, I formally call you to order for the second time today. I am not particularly interested in being continually on my feet formally calling members to order. It is not something that I want to do on a daily basis, let alone on a minute-by-minute basis! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I will conclude. The question had an implied accusation from the Leader of the Opposition that I and my office had in some way encouraged or got Robyn McSweeney to ring up Michelle Stubbs and “heavy” her. That was the tone of the question. I will tell the Leader of the Opposition that he might do that, the Labor Party might do that, but I do not!
Michelle Stubbs was appointed to the Ministerial Advisory Council on Child Protection by Hon Robyn McSweeney. They obviously had many conversations, including conversations about the Redress scheme and the like. On the day in July 2009 when the minister announced that the maximum payment would be reduced from $80 000 to $45 000 and the other changes which were outlined by the Attorney General this morning and which I have just repeated, Michelle Stubbs rang Hon Robyn McSweeney. She made contact with Hon Robyn McSweeney’s office and left a message. Hon Robyn McSweeney, the minister, dutifully returned that call and they had a lengthy conversation. Understandably, Michelle Stubbs was upset, she was emotional, and the conversation went on for some time. They know each other well. It was Michelle Stubbs who rang the minister to discuss the issue. She was on the advisory council; she knew what was going on. So to come in here and accuse, as the member for Rockingham did — Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : No, you have to be big enough and man enough to take it now. This is a test of all of you now. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the first time today. Member for Kwinana, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Leader of the Opposition, do you have a supplementary question? Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I am still — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen, I am formally going to call you to order for the first time today. You have a bit to make up, member for Girrawheen. Mr P.C. Tinley interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Willagee, just for the form, I call you to order as well. Mr C.J. BARNETT : It was Michelle Stubbs who called the minister’s office to try to persuade the minister to not reduce the maximum payment. That is clear from her letter today. The minister returned her call, later in the day, and they had a quite lengthy conversation. As I understand it, they talked about the scheme. Point number one: Michelle Stubbs contacted the minister, not the other way around. Point number two: I hope that the member for Rockingham is man enough to apologise, because Hon Robyn McSweeney did not ring Michelle Stubbs to “heavy” her, which he accused her of in this Parliament and which is on the record of this Parliament. I hope he is man enough to apologise to the minister; if not in here, when he sees her in the building. Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : The final point—by way of interjection!—is that Robyn McSweeney said, in the context of a lengthy conversation in which Michelle was extremely emotional, and understandably so, that she did use words along the lines of “let it go through to the keeper”, but that is very different from the accusation that the member for Rockingham made; namely, that the minister got on the phone and “heavied” her. The other accusation made by — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Willagee, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Midland, I formally call you to order for the second time today. I am not particularly interested in being continually on my feet formally calling members to order. It is not something that I want to do on a daily basis, let alone on a minute-by-minute basis! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I will conclude. The question had an implied accusation from the Leader of the Opposition that I and my office had in some way encouraged or got Robyn McSweeney to ring up Michelle Stubbs and “heavy” her. That was the tone of the question. I will tell the Leader of the Opposition that he might do that, the Labor Party might do that, but I do not!
Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : No, you have to be big enough and man enough to take it now. This is a test of all of you now. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the first time today. Member for Kwinana, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Leader of the Opposition, do you have a supplementary question? Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I am still — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen, I am formally going to call you to order for the first time today. You have a bit to make up, member for Girrawheen. Mr P.C. Tinley interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Willagee, just for the form, I call you to order as well. Mr C.J. BARNETT : It was Michelle Stubbs who called the minister’s office to try to persuade the minister to not reduce the maximum payment. That is clear from her letter today. The minister returned her call, later in the day, and they had a quite lengthy conversation. As I understand it, they talked about the scheme. Point number one: Michelle Stubbs contacted the minister, not the other way around. Point number two: I hope that the member for Rockingham is man enough to apologise, because Hon Robyn McSweeney did not ring Michelle Stubbs to “heavy” her, which he accused her of in this Parliament and which is on the record of this Parliament. I hope he is man enough to apologise to the minister; if not in here, when he sees her in the building. Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : The final point—by way of interjection!—is that Robyn McSweeney said, in the context of a lengthy conversation in which Michelle was extremely emotional, and understandably so, that she did use words along the lines of “let it go through to the keeper”, but that is very different from the accusation that the member for Rockingham made; namely, that the minister got on the phone and “heavied” her. The other accusation made by — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Willagee, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Midland, I formally call you to order for the second time today. I am not particularly interested in being continually on my feet formally calling members to order. It is not something that I want to do on a daily basis, let alone on a minute-by-minute basis! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I will conclude. The question had an implied accusation from the Leader of the Opposition that I and my office had in some way encouraged or got Robyn McSweeney to ring up Michelle Stubbs and “heavy” her. That was the tone of the question. I will tell the Leader of the Opposition that he might do that, the Labor Party might do that, but I do not!
Mr C.J. BARNETT : No, you have to be big enough and man enough to take it now. This is a test of all of you now. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the first time today. Member for Kwinana, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Leader of the Opposition, do you have a supplementary question? Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I am still — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen, I am formally going to call you to order for the first time today. You have a bit to make up, member for Girrawheen. Mr P.C. Tinley interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Willagee, just for the form, I call you to order as well. Mr C.J. BARNETT : It was Michelle Stubbs who called the minister’s office to try to persuade the minister to not reduce the maximum payment. That is clear from her letter today. The minister returned her call, later in the day, and they had a quite lengthy conversation. As I understand it, they talked about the scheme. Point number one: Michelle Stubbs contacted the minister, not the other way around. Point number two: I hope that the member for Rockingham is man enough to apologise, because Hon Robyn McSweeney did not ring Michelle Stubbs to “heavy” her, which he accused her of in this Parliament and which is on the record of this Parliament. I hope he is man enough to apologise to the minister; if not in here, when he sees her in the building. Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : The final point—by way of interjection!—is that Robyn McSweeney said, in the context of a lengthy conversation in which Michelle was extremely emotional, and understandably so, that she did use words along the lines of “let it go through to the keeper”, but that is very different from the accusation that the member for Rockingham made; namely, that the minister got on the phone and “heavied” her. The other accusation made by — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Willagee, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Midland, I formally call you to order for the second time today. I am not particularly interested in being continually on my feet formally calling members to order. It is not something that I want to do on a daily basis, let alone on a minute-by-minute basis! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I will conclude. The question had an implied accusation from the Leader of the Opposition that I and my office had in some way encouraged or got Robyn McSweeney to ring up Michelle Stubbs and “heavy” her. That was the tone of the question. I will tell the Leader of the Opposition that he might do that, the Labor Party might do that, but I do not!
Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the first time today. Member for Kwinana, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Leader of the Opposition, do you have a supplementary question? Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I am still — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen, I am formally going to call you to order for the first time today. You have a bit to make up, member for Girrawheen. Mr P.C. Tinley interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Willagee, just for the form, I call you to order as well. Mr C.J. BARNETT : It was Michelle Stubbs who called the minister’s office to try to persuade the minister to not reduce the maximum payment. That is clear from her letter today. The minister returned her call, later in the day, and they had a quite lengthy conversation. As I understand it, they talked about the scheme. Point number one: Michelle Stubbs contacted the minister, not the other way around. Point number two: I hope that the member for Rockingham is man enough to apologise, because Hon Robyn McSweeney did not ring Michelle Stubbs to “heavy” her, which he accused her of in this Parliament and which is on the record of this Parliament. I hope he is man enough to apologise to the minister; if not in here, when he sees her in the building. Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : The final point—by way of interjection!—is that Robyn McSweeney said, in the context of a lengthy conversation in which Michelle was extremely emotional, and understandably so, that she did use words along the lines of “let it go through to the keeper”, but that is very different from the accusation that the member for Rockingham made; namely, that the minister got on the phone and “heavied” her. The other accusation made by — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Willagee, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Midland, I formally call you to order for the second time today. I am not particularly interested in being continually on my feet formally calling members to order. It is not something that I want to do on a daily basis, let alone on a minute-by-minute basis! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I will conclude. The question had an implied accusation from the Leader of the Opposition that I and my office had in some way encouraged or got Robyn McSweeney to ring up Michelle Stubbs and “heavy” her. That was the tone of the question. I will tell the Leader of the Opposition that he might do that, the Labor Party might do that, but I do not!
The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the first time today. Member for Kwinana, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Leader of the Opposition, do you have a supplementary question? Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I am still — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen, I am formally going to call you to order for the first time today. You have a bit to make up, member for Girrawheen. Mr P.C. Tinley interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Willagee, just for the form, I call you to order as well. Mr C.J. BARNETT : It was Michelle Stubbs who called the minister’s office to try to persuade the minister to not reduce the maximum payment. That is clear from her letter today. The minister returned her call, later in the day, and they had a quite lengthy conversation. As I understand it, they talked about the scheme. Point number one: Michelle Stubbs contacted the minister, not the other way around. Point number two: I hope that the member for Rockingham is man enough to apologise, because Hon Robyn McSweeney did not ring Michelle Stubbs to “heavy” her, which he accused her of in this Parliament and which is on the record of this Parliament. I hope he is man enough to apologise to the minister; if not in here, when he sees her in the building. Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : The final point—by way of interjection!—is that Robyn McSweeney said, in the context of a lengthy conversation in which Michelle was extremely emotional, and understandably so, that she did use words along the lines of “let it go through to the keeper”, but that is very different from the accusation that the member for Rockingham made; namely, that the minister got on the phone and “heavied” her. The other accusation made by — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Willagee, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Midland, I formally call you to order for the second time today. I am not particularly interested in being continually on my feet formally calling members to order. It is not something that I want to do on a daily basis, let alone on a minute-by-minute basis! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I will conclude. The question had an implied accusation from the Leader of the Opposition that I and my office had in some way encouraged or got Robyn McSweeney to ring up Michelle Stubbs and “heavy” her. That was the tone of the question. I will tell the Leader of the Opposition that he might do that, the Labor Party might do that, but I do not!
Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I am still — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen, I am formally going to call you to order for the first time today. You have a bit to make up, member for Girrawheen. Mr P.C. Tinley interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Willagee, just for the form, I call you to order as well. Mr C.J. BARNETT : It was Michelle Stubbs who called the minister’s office to try to persuade the minister to not reduce the maximum payment. That is clear from her letter today. The minister returned her call, later in the day, and they had a quite lengthy conversation. As I understand it, they talked about the scheme. Point number one: Michelle Stubbs contacted the minister, not the other way around. Point number two: I hope that the member for Rockingham is man enough to apologise, because Hon Robyn McSweeney did not ring Michelle Stubbs to “heavy” her, which he accused her of in this Parliament and which is on the record of this Parliament. I hope he is man enough to apologise to the minister; if not in here, when he sees her in the building. Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : The final point—by way of interjection!—is that Robyn McSweeney said, in the context of a lengthy conversation in which Michelle was extremely emotional, and understandably so, that she did use words along the lines of “let it go through to the keeper”, but that is very different from the accusation that the member for Rockingham made; namely, that the minister got on the phone and “heavied” her. The other accusation made by — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Willagee, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Midland, I formally call you to order for the second time today. I am not particularly interested in being continually on my feet formally calling members to order. It is not something that I want to do on a daily basis, let alone on a minute-by-minute basis! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I will conclude. The question had an implied accusation from the Leader of the Opposition that I and my office had in some way encouraged or got Robyn McSweeney to ring up Michelle Stubbs and “heavy” her. That was the tone of the question. I will tell the Leader of the Opposition that he might do that, the Labor Party might do that, but I do not!
Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen, I am formally going to call you to order for the first time today. You have a bit to make up, member for Girrawheen. Mr P.C. Tinley interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Willagee, just for the form, I call you to order as well. Mr C.J. BARNETT : It was Michelle Stubbs who called the minister’s office to try to persuade the minister to not reduce the maximum payment. That is clear from her letter today. The minister returned her call, later in the day, and they had a quite lengthy conversation. As I understand it, they talked about the scheme. Point number one: Michelle Stubbs contacted the minister, not the other way around. Point number two: I hope that the member for Rockingham is man enough to apologise, because Hon Robyn McSweeney did not ring Michelle Stubbs to “heavy” her, which he accused her of in this Parliament and which is on the record of this Parliament. I hope he is man enough to apologise to the minister; if not in here, when he sees her in the building. Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : The final point—by way of interjection!—is that Robyn McSweeney said, in the context of a lengthy conversation in which Michelle was extremely emotional, and understandably so, that she did use words along the lines of “let it go through to the keeper”, but that is very different from the accusation that the member for Rockingham made; namely, that the minister got on the phone and “heavied” her. The other accusation made by — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Willagee, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Midland, I formally call you to order for the second time today. I am not particularly interested in being continually on my feet formally calling members to order. It is not something that I want to do on a daily basis, let alone on a minute-by-minute basis! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I will conclude. The question had an implied accusation from the Leader of the Opposition that I and my office had in some way encouraged or got Robyn McSweeney to ring up Michelle Stubbs and “heavy” her. That was the tone of the question. I will tell the Leader of the Opposition that he might do that, the Labor Party might do that, but I do not!
The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen, I am formally going to call you to order for the first time today. You have a bit to make up, member for Girrawheen. Mr P.C. Tinley interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Willagee, just for the form, I call you to order as well. Mr C.J. BARNETT : It was Michelle Stubbs who called the minister’s office to try to persuade the minister to not reduce the maximum payment. That is clear from her letter today. The minister returned her call, later in the day, and they had a quite lengthy conversation. As I understand it, they talked about the scheme. Point number one: Michelle Stubbs contacted the minister, not the other way around. Point number two: I hope that the member for Rockingham is man enough to apologise, because Hon Robyn McSweeney did not ring Michelle Stubbs to “heavy” her, which he accused her of in this Parliament and which is on the record of this Parliament. I hope he is man enough to apologise to the minister; if not in here, when he sees her in the building. Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : The final point—by way of interjection!—is that Robyn McSweeney said, in the context of a lengthy conversation in which Michelle was extremely emotional, and understandably so, that she did use words along the lines of “let it go through to the keeper”, but that is very different from the accusation that the member for Rockingham made; namely, that the minister got on the phone and “heavied” her. The other accusation made by — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Willagee, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Midland, I formally call you to order for the second time today. I am not particularly interested in being continually on my feet formally calling members to order. It is not something that I want to do on a daily basis, let alone on a minute-by-minute basis! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I will conclude. The question had an implied accusation from the Leader of the Opposition that I and my office had in some way encouraged or got Robyn McSweeney to ring up Michelle Stubbs and “heavy” her. That was the tone of the question. I will tell the Leader of the Opposition that he might do that, the Labor Party might do that, but I do not!
Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen, I am formally going to call you to order for the first time today. You have a bit to make up, member for Girrawheen. Mr P.C. Tinley interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Willagee, just for the form, I call you to order as well. Mr C.J. BARNETT : It was Michelle Stubbs who called the minister’s office to try to persuade the minister to not reduce the maximum payment. That is clear from her letter today. The minister returned her call, later in the day, and they had a quite lengthy conversation. As I understand it, they talked about the scheme. Point number one: Michelle Stubbs contacted the minister, not the other way around. Point number two: I hope that the member for Rockingham is man enough to apologise, because Hon Robyn McSweeney did not ring Michelle Stubbs to “heavy” her, which he accused her of in this Parliament and which is on the record of this Parliament. I hope he is man enough to apologise to the minister; if not in here, when he sees her in the building. Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : The final point—by way of interjection!—is that Robyn McSweeney said, in the context of a lengthy conversation in which Michelle was extremely emotional, and understandably so, that she did use words along the lines of “let it go through to the keeper”, but that is very different from the accusation that the member for Rockingham made; namely, that the minister got on the phone and “heavied” her. The other accusation made by — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Willagee, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Midland, I formally call you to order for the second time today. I am not particularly interested in being continually on my feet formally calling members to order. It is not something that I want to do on a daily basis, let alone on a minute-by-minute basis! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I will conclude. The question had an implied accusation from the Leader of the Opposition that I and my office had in some way encouraged or got Robyn McSweeney to ring up Michelle Stubbs and “heavy” her. That was the tone of the question. I will tell the Leader of the Opposition that he might do that, the Labor Party might do that, but I do not!
Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen, I am formally going to call you to order for the first time today. You have a bit to make up, member for Girrawheen. Mr P.C. Tinley interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Willagee, just for the form, I call you to order as well. Mr C.J. BARNETT : It was Michelle Stubbs who called the minister’s office to try to persuade the minister to not reduce the maximum payment. That is clear from her letter today. The minister returned her call, later in the day, and they had a quite lengthy conversation. As I understand it, they talked about the scheme. Point number one: Michelle Stubbs contacted the minister, not the other way around. Point number two: I hope that the member for Rockingham is man enough to apologise, because Hon Robyn McSweeney did not ring Michelle Stubbs to “heavy” her, which he accused her of in this Parliament and which is on the record of this Parliament. I hope he is man enough to apologise to the minister; if not in here, when he sees her in the building. Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : The final point—by way of interjection!—is that Robyn McSweeney said, in the context of a lengthy conversation in which Michelle was extremely emotional, and understandably so, that she did use words along the lines of “let it go through to the keeper”, but that is very different from the accusation that the member for Rockingham made; namely, that the minister got on the phone and “heavied” her. The other accusation made by — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Willagee, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Midland, I formally call you to order for the second time today. I am not particularly interested in being continually on my feet formally calling members to order. It is not something that I want to do on a daily basis, let alone on a minute-by-minute basis! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I will conclude. The question had an implied accusation from the Leader of the Opposition that I and my office had in some way encouraged or got Robyn McSweeney to ring up Michelle Stubbs and “heavy” her. That was the tone of the question. I will tell the Leader of the Opposition that he might do that, the Labor Party might do that, but I do not!
The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen, I am formally going to call you to order for the first time today. You have a bit to make up, member for Girrawheen. Mr P.C. Tinley interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Willagee, just for the form, I call you to order as well. Mr C.J. BARNETT : It was Michelle Stubbs who called the minister’s office to try to persuade the minister to not reduce the maximum payment. That is clear from her letter today. The minister returned her call, later in the day, and they had a quite lengthy conversation. As I understand it, they talked about the scheme. Point number one: Michelle Stubbs contacted the minister, not the other way around. Point number two: I hope that the member for Rockingham is man enough to apologise, because Hon Robyn McSweeney did not ring Michelle Stubbs to “heavy” her, which he accused her of in this Parliament and which is on the record of this Parliament. I hope he is man enough to apologise to the minister; if not in here, when he sees her in the building. Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : The final point—by way of interjection!—is that Robyn McSweeney said, in the context of a lengthy conversation in which Michelle was extremely emotional, and understandably so, that she did use words along the lines of “let it go through to the keeper”, but that is very different from the accusation that the member for Rockingham made; namely, that the minister got on the phone and “heavied” her. The other accusation made by — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Willagee, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Midland, I formally call you to order for the second time today. I am not particularly interested in being continually on my feet formally calling members to order. It is not something that I want to do on a daily basis, let alone on a minute-by-minute basis! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I will conclude. The question had an implied accusation from the Leader of the Opposition that I and my office had in some way encouraged or got Robyn McSweeney to ring up Michelle Stubbs and “heavy” her. That was the tone of the question. I will tell the Leader of the Opposition that he might do that, the Labor Party might do that, but I do not!
Mr P.C. Tinley interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Willagee, just for the form, I call you to order as well. Mr C.J. BARNETT : It was Michelle Stubbs who called the minister’s office to try to persuade the minister to not reduce the maximum payment. That is clear from her letter today. The minister returned her call, later in the day, and they had a quite lengthy conversation. As I understand it, they talked about the scheme. Point number one: Michelle Stubbs contacted the minister, not the other way around. Point number two: I hope that the member for Rockingham is man enough to apologise, because Hon Robyn McSweeney did not ring Michelle Stubbs to “heavy” her, which he accused her of in this Parliament and which is on the record of this Parliament. I hope he is man enough to apologise to the minister; if not in here, when he sees her in the building. Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : The final point—by way of interjection!—is that Robyn McSweeney said, in the context of a lengthy conversation in which Michelle was extremely emotional, and understandably so, that she did use words along the lines of “let it go through to the keeper”, but that is very different from the accusation that the member for Rockingham made; namely, that the minister got on the phone and “heavied” her. The other accusation made by — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Willagee, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Midland, I formally call you to order for the second time today. I am not particularly interested in being continually on my feet formally calling members to order. It is not something that I want to do on a daily basis, let alone on a minute-by-minute basis! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I will conclude. The question had an implied accusation from the Leader of the Opposition that I and my office had in some way encouraged or got Robyn McSweeney to ring up Michelle Stubbs and “heavy” her. That was the tone of the question. I will tell the Leader of the Opposition that he might do that, the Labor Party might do that, but I do not!
The SPEAKER : Member for Willagee, just for the form, I call you to order as well. Mr C.J. BARNETT : It was Michelle Stubbs who called the minister’s office to try to persuade the minister to not reduce the maximum payment. That is clear from her letter today. The minister returned her call, later in the day, and they had a quite lengthy conversation. As I understand it, they talked about the scheme. Point number one: Michelle Stubbs contacted the minister, not the other way around. Point number two: I hope that the member for Rockingham is man enough to apologise, because Hon Robyn McSweeney did not ring Michelle Stubbs to “heavy” her, which he accused her of in this Parliament and which is on the record of this Parliament. I hope he is man enough to apologise to the minister; if not in here, when he sees her in the building. Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : The final point—by way of interjection!—is that Robyn McSweeney said, in the context of a lengthy conversation in which Michelle was extremely emotional, and understandably so, that she did use words along the lines of “let it go through to the keeper”, but that is very different from the accusation that the member for Rockingham made; namely, that the minister got on the phone and “heavied” her. The other accusation made by — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Willagee, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Midland, I formally call you to order for the second time today. I am not particularly interested in being continually on my feet formally calling members to order. It is not something that I want to do on a daily basis, let alone on a minute-by-minute basis! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I will conclude. The question had an implied accusation from the Leader of the Opposition that I and my office had in some way encouraged or got Robyn McSweeney to ring up Michelle Stubbs and “heavy” her. That was the tone of the question. I will tell the Leader of the Opposition that he might do that, the Labor Party might do that, but I do not!
Mr C.J. BARNETT : It was Michelle Stubbs who called the minister’s office to try to persuade the minister to not reduce the maximum payment. That is clear from her letter today. The minister returned her call, later in the day, and they had a quite lengthy conversation. As I understand it, they talked about the scheme. Point number one: Michelle Stubbs contacted the minister, not the other way around. Point number two: I hope that the member for Rockingham is man enough to apologise, because Hon Robyn McSweeney did not ring Michelle Stubbs to “heavy” her, which he accused her of in this Parliament and which is on the record of this Parliament. I hope he is man enough to apologise to the minister; if not in here, when he sees her in the building. Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : The final point—by way of interjection!—is that Robyn McSweeney said, in the context of a lengthy conversation in which Michelle was extremely emotional, and understandably so, that she did use words along the lines of “let it go through to the keeper”, but that is very different from the accusation that the member for Rockingham made; namely, that the minister got on the phone and “heavied” her. The other accusation made by — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Willagee, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Midland, I formally call you to order for the second time today. I am not particularly interested in being continually on my feet formally calling members to order. It is not something that I want to do on a daily basis, let alone on a minute-by-minute basis! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I will conclude. The question had an implied accusation from the Leader of the Opposition that I and my office had in some way encouraged or got Robyn McSweeney to ring up Michelle Stubbs and “heavy” her. That was the tone of the question. I will tell the Leader of the Opposition that he might do that, the Labor Party might do that, but I do not!
Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : The final point—by way of interjection!—is that Robyn McSweeney said, in the context of a lengthy conversation in which Michelle was extremely emotional, and understandably so, that she did use words along the lines of “let it go through to the keeper”, but that is very different from the accusation that the member for Rockingham made; namely, that the minister got on the phone and “heavied” her. The other accusation made by — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Willagee, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Midland, I formally call you to order for the second time today. I am not particularly interested in being continually on my feet formally calling members to order. It is not something that I want to do on a daily basis, let alone on a minute-by-minute basis! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I will conclude. The question had an implied accusation from the Leader of the Opposition that I and my office had in some way encouraged or got Robyn McSweeney to ring up Michelle Stubbs and “heavy” her. That was the tone of the question. I will tell the Leader of the Opposition that he might do that, the Labor Party might do that, but I do not!
Mr C.J. BARNETT : The final point—by way of interjection!—is that Robyn McSweeney said, in the context of a lengthy conversation in which Michelle was extremely emotional, and understandably so, that she did use words along the lines of “let it go through to the keeper”, but that is very different from the accusation that the member for Rockingham made; namely, that the minister got on the phone and “heavied” her. The other accusation made by — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Willagee, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Midland, I formally call you to order for the second time today. I am not particularly interested in being continually on my feet formally calling members to order. It is not something that I want to do on a daily basis, let alone on a minute-by-minute basis! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I will conclude. The question had an implied accusation from the Leader of the Opposition that I and my office had in some way encouraged or got Robyn McSweeney to ring up Michelle Stubbs and “heavy” her. That was the tone of the question. I will tell the Leader of the Opposition that he might do that, the Labor Party might do that, but I do not!
Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Willagee, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Midland, I formally call you to order for the second time today. I am not particularly interested in being continually on my feet formally calling members to order. It is not something that I want to do on a daily basis, let alone on a minute-by-minute basis! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I will conclude. The question had an implied accusation from the Leader of the Opposition that I and my office had in some way encouraged or got Robyn McSweeney to ring up Michelle Stubbs and “heavy” her. That was the tone of the question. I will tell the Leader of the Opposition that he might do that, the Labor Party might do that, but I do not!
The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Willagee, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Midland, I formally call you to order for the second time today. I am not particularly interested in being continually on my feet formally calling members to order. It is not something that I want to do on a daily basis, let alone on a minute-by-minute basis! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I will conclude. The question had an implied accusation from the Leader of the Opposition that I and my office had in some way encouraged or got Robyn McSweeney to ring up Michelle Stubbs and “heavy” her. That was the tone of the question. I will tell the Leader of the Opposition that he might do that, the Labor Party might do that, but I do not!
Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I will conclude. The question had an implied accusation from the Leader of the Opposition that I and my office had in some way encouraged or got Robyn McSweeney to ring up Michelle Stubbs and “heavy” her. That was the tone of the question. I will tell the Leader of the Opposition that he might do that, the Labor Party might do that, but I do not!
(1) What involvement in this matter did the Premier or his office have? (2) Who in government arranged this discussion with Minister McSweeney or her office before it happened? (3) Has the Premier instructed Minister McSweeney to apologise to Michelle Stubbs for this action? Opposition member: Good question! Mr C.J. BARNETT replied: Yes, it is a good question, and I have a good answer. (1)–(3) We debated this issue this morning, and I want to restate very briefly, if I may, that the previous government, the Labor Party, allocated $90 million to this scheme. It did not cost it properly. It put out and raised an expectation that the victims of abuse under the Redress WA scheme would receive payments up to $85 000, with only two categories. When coming to government we were aware that the previous government had ignored advice that the scheme was under-costed and would probably run, at that rate, to some $200 million—and, yes, in a difficult economic environment, but, also, I think, on proper grounds, this government did reduce the maximum payment from $80 000 to $45 000. We introduced four categories; and, indeed, the payments have flowed and, as I said this morning, the vast majority of people have been assessed and have received not a compensation payment, but an ex gratia payment. The Attorney General also made clear this morning, and I will repeat what he had to say, that apart from the change to the maximum payment, this government also introduced a number of changes—changes very much to the benefit of Redress victims. There was no longer a requirement for psychological and medical assessments, as had been required by Labor. We also removed a requirement under Labor that applicants had to sign a waiver that they would not sue the government. We removed that and protected their legal right, if they chose to, to sue the government. We also introduced a payment of $5 000 for those applicants who may have died during the process. A number have, and their estate, and therefore their families and descendants, has received $5 000. Under Labor, applicants had no right of appeal at all. Labor did not allow that. We allowed a right of appeal — Ms M.M. Quirk : We didn’t need to. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Well, a number of people have appealed. So the previous government took away the right for legal action and it took away the right to appeal; and, to make sure it is correct, once a person had accepted a payment, they had to accept that that was the end of the process and they would not have an appeal. But the former government did not allow that even from the beginning. If their level of assessment, in their mind, was wrong, as may have been the case with Michelle Stubbs, those opposite denied them a right of appeal from the outset. They denied them a right of appeal; they denied them access to the law to take legal action. So I would not be too — Mr M. McGowan : You said all that this morning. Mr C.J. BARNETT : And what did the member say this morning? I will tell the member for Rockingham what he said this morning. What he — Mr W.J. Johnston : What is the answer to the question? Instead of coming in here and telling lies — The SPEAKER : Member for Cannington! Mr C.J. BARNETT : You did not even know the system. Mr R.F. JOHNSON : Mr Speaker — Withdrawal of Remark The SPEAKER : Take a seat, Premier; take a seat, Leader of the House. Member for Cannington, I request that you withdraw that comment. Mr W.J. JOHNSTON : I withdraw. Questions without Notice Resumed Mr C.J. BARNETT : Members opposite hurled accusations across the chamber. I will remember what the member for Joondalup said in particular. Mr W.J. Johnston : What did he say? Mr C.J. BARNETT : I will remember. Mr W.J. Johnston : What did he say? The SPEAKER : Member for Cannington! Mr C.J. BARNETT : I also recall very distinctly the member for Rockingham accusing Hon Robyn McSweeney of heavying—that was his expression — Mr M. McGowan : Yes. Mr C.J. BARNETT : — Michelle Stubbs. Mr M. McGowan : That’s what her letter says. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Jumping to conclusions and jumping to assertions. Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Maybe the member should listen for a little while. Hon Robyn McSweeney has professional experience, and years of experience, in dealing with children who have been abused. At least respect that. She is a professional in the area and has years of experience. Mrs M.H. Roberts : That’s why she should have known better, isn’t it? Mr C.J. BARNETT : Why do you not listen for a moment? Members opposite do not treat this seriously. Mrs M.H. Roberts : You don’t. The SPEAKER : Member for Midland, I formally call you to order for the first time today. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I just remind the house that Hon Robyn McSweeney has had years of experience in dealing with abused children. If anyone in this Parliament is sensitive to that situation, it would be her. If anyone has years of personal and professional experience in the area, it would be her—it would be Hon Robyn McSweeney—yet members opposite, and in particular the member for Rockingham, without any true knowledge of the situation, accused Hon Robyn McSweeney of ringing Michelle Stubbs and heavying her. They were the words that the member for Rockingham used. Mr M. McGowan : They were. Mr C.J. BARNETT : So I have taken the trouble, my office has taken the trouble, of being in contact with Hon Robyn McSweeney, and members opposite might be interested in the truth. “Don’t let the truth get in the way” is the Labor paradigm. But members opposite might be interested this time. Mr E.S. Ripper : I am interested. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Okay; well, why don’t you listen? I will tell you what happened. On the day — Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I will tell you what happened. On the day the announcement was made to reduce the maximum payment from $80 000 to $45 000, and the other changes that I have just outlined, Michelle Stubbs—Michelle Stubbs is a good person; I know her reasonably well—was appointed by Hon Robyn McSweeney — Mrs M.H. Roberts : Now you’re saying she’s a liar. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I have never, Mr Speaker, accused Michelle Stubbs of lying—ever—have I? I actually regard her as a friend. Never ever have I said that. You should withdraw and apologise. The SPEAKER : We have been through some of this this morning and some of you know where you are with it at this point. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I know Michelle Stubbs reasonably well. I have a great deal of respect and admiration for her. I like her as a person, and I fully recognise the incredible hardship that she suffered. No-one should doubt that, and certainly not people who know Michelle. Michelle Stubbs was appointed to the Ministerial Advisory Council on Child Protection by Hon Robyn McSweeney. They obviously had many conversations, including conversations about the Redress scheme and the like. On the day in July 2009 when the minister announced that the maximum payment would be reduced from $80 000 to $45 000 and the other changes which were outlined by the Attorney General this morning and which I have just repeated, Michelle Stubbs rang Hon Robyn McSweeney. She made contact with Hon Robyn McSweeney’s office and left a message. Hon Robyn McSweeney, the minister, dutifully returned that call and they had a lengthy conversation. Understandably, Michelle Stubbs was upset, she was emotional, and the conversation went on for some time. They know each other well. It was Michelle Stubbs who rang the minister to discuss the issue. She was on the advisory council; she knew what was going on. So to come in here and accuse, as the member for Rockingham did — Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : No, you have to be big enough and man enough to take it now. This is a test of all of you now. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the first time today. Member for Kwinana, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Leader of the Opposition, do you have a supplementary question? Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I am still — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen, I am formally going to call you to order for the first time today. You have a bit to make up, member for Girrawheen. Mr P.C. Tinley interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Willagee, just for the form, I call you to order as well. Mr C.J. BARNETT : It was Michelle Stubbs who called the minister’s office to try to persuade the minister to not reduce the maximum payment. That is clear from her letter today. The minister returned her call, later in the day, and they had a quite lengthy conversation. As I understand it, they talked about the scheme. Point number one: Michelle Stubbs contacted the minister, not the other way around. Point number two: I hope that the member for Rockingham is man enough to apologise, because Hon Robyn McSweeney did not ring Michelle Stubbs to “heavy” her, which he accused her of in this Parliament and which is on the record of this Parliament. I hope he is man enough to apologise to the minister; if not in here, when he sees her in the building. Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : The final point—by way of interjection!—is that Robyn McSweeney said, in the context of a lengthy conversation in which Michelle was extremely emotional, and understandably so, that she did use words along the lines of “let it go through to the keeper”, but that is very different from the accusation that the member for Rockingham made; namely, that the minister got on the phone and “heavied” her. The other accusation made by — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Willagee, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Midland, I formally call you to order for the second time today. I am not particularly interested in being continually on my feet formally calling members to order. It is not something that I want to do on a daily basis, let alone on a minute-by-minute basis! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I will conclude. The question had an implied accusation from the Leader of the Opposition that I and my office had in some way encouraged or got Robyn McSweeney to ring up Michelle Stubbs and “heavy” her. That was the tone of the question. I will tell the Leader of the Opposition that he might do that, the Labor Party might do that, but I do not!
(2) Who in government arranged this discussion with Minister McSweeney or her office before it happened? (3) Has the Premier instructed Minister McSweeney to apologise to Michelle Stubbs for this action? Opposition member: Good question! Mr C.J. BARNETT replied: Yes, it is a good question, and I have a good answer. (1)–(3) We debated this issue this morning, and I want to restate very briefly, if I may, that the previous government, the Labor Party, allocated $90 million to this scheme. It did not cost it properly. It put out and raised an expectation that the victims of abuse under the Redress WA scheme would receive payments up to $85 000, with only two categories. When coming to government we were aware that the previous government had ignored advice that the scheme was under-costed and would probably run, at that rate, to some $200 million—and, yes, in a difficult economic environment, but, also, I think, on proper grounds, this government did reduce the maximum payment from $80 000 to $45 000. We introduced four categories; and, indeed, the payments have flowed and, as I said this morning, the vast majority of people have been assessed and have received not a compensation payment, but an ex gratia payment. The Attorney General also made clear this morning, and I will repeat what he had to say, that apart from the change to the maximum payment, this government also introduced a number of changes—changes very much to the benefit of Redress victims. There was no longer a requirement for psychological and medical assessments, as had been required by Labor. We also removed a requirement under Labor that applicants had to sign a waiver that they would not sue the government. We removed that and protected their legal right, if they chose to, to sue the government. We also introduced a payment of $5 000 for those applicants who may have died during the process. A number have, and their estate, and therefore their families and descendants, has received $5 000. Under Labor, applicants had no right of appeal at all. Labor did not allow that. We allowed a right of appeal — Ms M.M. Quirk : We didn’t need to. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Well, a number of people have appealed. So the previous government took away the right for legal action and it took away the right to appeal; and, to make sure it is correct, once a person had accepted a payment, they had to accept that that was the end of the process and they would not have an appeal. But the former government did not allow that even from the beginning. If their level of assessment, in their mind, was wrong, as may have been the case with Michelle Stubbs, those opposite denied them a right of appeal from the outset. They denied them a right of appeal; they denied them access to the law to take legal action. So I would not be too — Mr M. McGowan : You said all that this morning. Mr C.J. BARNETT : And what did the member say this morning? I will tell the member for Rockingham what he said this morning. What he — Mr W.J. Johnston : What is the answer to the question? Instead of coming in here and telling lies — The SPEAKER : Member for Cannington! Mr C.J. BARNETT : You did not even know the system. Mr R.F. JOHNSON : Mr Speaker — Withdrawal of Remark The SPEAKER : Take a seat, Premier; take a seat, Leader of the House. Member for Cannington, I request that you withdraw that comment. Mr W.J. JOHNSTON : I withdraw. Questions without Notice Resumed Mr C.J. BARNETT : Members opposite hurled accusations across the chamber. I will remember what the member for Joondalup said in particular. Mr W.J. Johnston : What did he say? Mr C.J. BARNETT : I will remember. Mr W.J. Johnston : What did he say? The SPEAKER : Member for Cannington! Mr C.J. BARNETT : I also recall very distinctly the member for Rockingham accusing Hon Robyn McSweeney of heavying—that was his expression — Mr M. McGowan : Yes. Mr C.J. BARNETT : — Michelle Stubbs. Mr M. McGowan : That’s what her letter says. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Jumping to conclusions and jumping to assertions. Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Maybe the member should listen for a little while. Hon Robyn McSweeney has professional experience, and years of experience, in dealing with children who have been abused. At least respect that. She is a professional in the area and has years of experience. Mrs M.H. Roberts : That’s why she should have known better, isn’t it? Mr C.J. BARNETT : Why do you not listen for a moment? Members opposite do not treat this seriously. Mrs M.H. Roberts : You don’t. The SPEAKER : Member for Midland, I formally call you to order for the first time today. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I just remind the house that Hon Robyn McSweeney has had years of experience in dealing with abused children. If anyone in this Parliament is sensitive to that situation, it would be her. If anyone has years of personal and professional experience in the area, it would be her—it would be Hon Robyn McSweeney—yet members opposite, and in particular the member for Rockingham, without any true knowledge of the situation, accused Hon Robyn McSweeney of ringing Michelle Stubbs and heavying her. They were the words that the member for Rockingham used. Mr M. McGowan : They were. Mr C.J. BARNETT : So I have taken the trouble, my office has taken the trouble, of being in contact with Hon Robyn McSweeney, and members opposite might be interested in the truth. “Don’t let the truth get in the way” is the Labor paradigm. But members opposite might be interested this time. Mr E.S. Ripper : I am interested. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Okay; well, why don’t you listen? I will tell you what happened. On the day — Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I will tell you what happened. On the day the announcement was made to reduce the maximum payment from $80 000 to $45 000, and the other changes that I have just outlined, Michelle Stubbs—Michelle Stubbs is a good person; I know her reasonably well—was appointed by Hon Robyn McSweeney — Mrs M.H. Roberts : Now you’re saying she’s a liar. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I have never, Mr Speaker, accused Michelle Stubbs of lying—ever—have I? I actually regard her as a friend. Never ever have I said that. You should withdraw and apologise. The SPEAKER : We have been through some of this this morning and some of you know where you are with it at this point. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I know Michelle Stubbs reasonably well. I have a great deal of respect and admiration for her. I like her as a person, and I fully recognise the incredible hardship that she suffered. No-one should doubt that, and certainly not people who know Michelle. Michelle Stubbs was appointed to the Ministerial Advisory Council on Child Protection by Hon Robyn McSweeney. They obviously had many conversations, including conversations about the Redress scheme and the like. On the day in July 2009 when the minister announced that the maximum payment would be reduced from $80 000 to $45 000 and the other changes which were outlined by the Attorney General this morning and which I have just repeated, Michelle Stubbs rang Hon Robyn McSweeney. She made contact with Hon Robyn McSweeney’s office and left a message. Hon Robyn McSweeney, the minister, dutifully returned that call and they had a lengthy conversation. Understandably, Michelle Stubbs was upset, she was emotional, and the conversation went on for some time. They know each other well. It was Michelle Stubbs who rang the minister to discuss the issue. She was on the advisory council; she knew what was going on. So to come in here and accuse, as the member for Rockingham did — Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : No, you have to be big enough and man enough to take it now. This is a test of all of you now. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the first time today. Member for Kwinana, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Leader of the Opposition, do you have a supplementary question? Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I am still — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen, I am formally going to call you to order for the first time today. You have a bit to make up, member for Girrawheen. Mr P.C. Tinley interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Willagee, just for the form, I call you to order as well. Mr C.J. BARNETT : It was Michelle Stubbs who called the minister’s office to try to persuade the minister to not reduce the maximum payment. That is clear from her letter today. The minister returned her call, later in the day, and they had a quite lengthy conversation. As I understand it, they talked about the scheme. Point number one: Michelle Stubbs contacted the minister, not the other way around. Point number two: I hope that the member for Rockingham is man enough to apologise, because Hon Robyn McSweeney did not ring Michelle Stubbs to “heavy” her, which he accused her of in this Parliament and which is on the record of this Parliament. I hope he is man enough to apologise to the minister; if not in here, when he sees her in the building. Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : The final point—by way of interjection!—is that Robyn McSweeney said, in the context of a lengthy conversation in which Michelle was extremely emotional, and understandably so, that she did use words along the lines of “let it go through to the keeper”, but that is very different from the accusation that the member for Rockingham made; namely, that the minister got on the phone and “heavied” her. The other accusation made by — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Willagee, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Midland, I formally call you to order for the second time today. I am not particularly interested in being continually on my feet formally calling members to order. It is not something that I want to do on a daily basis, let alone on a minute-by-minute basis! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I will conclude. The question had an implied accusation from the Leader of the Opposition that I and my office had in some way encouraged or got Robyn McSweeney to ring up Michelle Stubbs and “heavy” her. That was the tone of the question. I will tell the Leader of the Opposition that he might do that, the Labor Party might do that, but I do not!
(3) Has the Premier instructed Minister McSweeney to apologise to Michelle Stubbs for this action? Opposition member: Good question! Mr C.J. BARNETT replied: Yes, it is a good question, and I have a good answer. (1)–(3) We debated this issue this morning, and I want to restate very briefly, if I may, that the previous government, the Labor Party, allocated $90 million to this scheme. It did not cost it properly. It put out and raised an expectation that the victims of abuse under the Redress WA scheme would receive payments up to $85 000, with only two categories. When coming to government we were aware that the previous government had ignored advice that the scheme was under-costed and would probably run, at that rate, to some $200 million—and, yes, in a difficult economic environment, but, also, I think, on proper grounds, this government did reduce the maximum payment from $80 000 to $45 000. We introduced four categories; and, indeed, the payments have flowed and, as I said this morning, the vast majority of people have been assessed and have received not a compensation payment, but an ex gratia payment. The Attorney General also made clear this morning, and I will repeat what he had to say, that apart from the change to the maximum payment, this government also introduced a number of changes—changes very much to the benefit of Redress victims. There was no longer a requirement for psychological and medical assessments, as had been required by Labor. We also removed a requirement under Labor that applicants had to sign a waiver that they would not sue the government. We removed that and protected their legal right, if they chose to, to sue the government. We also introduced a payment of $5 000 for those applicants who may have died during the process. A number have, and their estate, and therefore their families and descendants, has received $5 000. Under Labor, applicants had no right of appeal at all. Labor did not allow that. We allowed a right of appeal — Ms M.M. Quirk : We didn’t need to. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Well, a number of people have appealed. So the previous government took away the right for legal action and it took away the right to appeal; and, to make sure it is correct, once a person had accepted a payment, they had to accept that that was the end of the process and they would not have an appeal. But the former government did not allow that even from the beginning. If their level of assessment, in their mind, was wrong, as may have been the case with Michelle Stubbs, those opposite denied them a right of appeal from the outset. They denied them a right of appeal; they denied them access to the law to take legal action. So I would not be too — Mr M. McGowan : You said all that this morning. Mr C.J. BARNETT : And what did the member say this morning? I will tell the member for Rockingham what he said this morning. What he — Mr W.J. Johnston : What is the answer to the question? Instead of coming in here and telling lies — The SPEAKER : Member for Cannington! Mr C.J. BARNETT : You did not even know the system. Mr R.F. JOHNSON : Mr Speaker — Withdrawal of Remark The SPEAKER : Take a seat, Premier; take a seat, Leader of the House. Member for Cannington, I request that you withdraw that comment. Mr W.J. JOHNSTON : I withdraw. Questions without Notice Resumed Mr C.J. BARNETT : Members opposite hurled accusations across the chamber. I will remember what the member for Joondalup said in particular. Mr W.J. Johnston : What did he say? Mr C.J. BARNETT : I will remember. Mr W.J. Johnston : What did he say? The SPEAKER : Member for Cannington! Mr C.J. BARNETT : I also recall very distinctly the member for Rockingham accusing Hon Robyn McSweeney of heavying—that was his expression — Mr M. McGowan : Yes. Mr C.J. BARNETT : — Michelle Stubbs. Mr M. McGowan : That’s what her letter says. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Jumping to conclusions and jumping to assertions. Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Maybe the member should listen for a little while. Hon Robyn McSweeney has professional experience, and years of experience, in dealing with children who have been abused. At least respect that. She is a professional in the area and has years of experience. Mrs M.H. Roberts : That’s why she should have known better, isn’t it? Mr C.J. BARNETT : Why do you not listen for a moment? Members opposite do not treat this seriously. Mrs M.H. Roberts : You don’t. The SPEAKER : Member for Midland, I formally call you to order for the first time today. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I just remind the house that Hon Robyn McSweeney has had years of experience in dealing with abused children. If anyone in this Parliament is sensitive to that situation, it would be her. If anyone has years of personal and professional experience in the area, it would be her—it would be Hon Robyn McSweeney—yet members opposite, and in particular the member for Rockingham, without any true knowledge of the situation, accused Hon Robyn McSweeney of ringing Michelle Stubbs and heavying her. They were the words that the member for Rockingham used. Mr M. McGowan : They were. Mr C.J. BARNETT : So I have taken the trouble, my office has taken the trouble, of being in contact with Hon Robyn McSweeney, and members opposite might be interested in the truth. “Don’t let the truth get in the way” is the Labor paradigm. But members opposite might be interested this time. Mr E.S. Ripper : I am interested. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Okay; well, why don’t you listen? I will tell you what happened. On the day — Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I will tell you what happened. On the day the announcement was made to reduce the maximum payment from $80 000 to $45 000, and the other changes that I have just outlined, Michelle Stubbs—Michelle Stubbs is a good person; I know her reasonably well—was appointed by Hon Robyn McSweeney — Mrs M.H. Roberts : Now you’re saying she’s a liar. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I have never, Mr Speaker, accused Michelle Stubbs of lying—ever—have I? I actually regard her as a friend. Never ever have I said that. You should withdraw and apologise. The SPEAKER : We have been through some of this this morning and some of you know where you are with it at this point. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I know Michelle Stubbs reasonably well. I have a great deal of respect and admiration for her. I like her as a person, and I fully recognise the incredible hardship that she suffered. No-one should doubt that, and certainly not people who know Michelle. Michelle Stubbs was appointed to the Ministerial Advisory Council on Child Protection by Hon Robyn McSweeney. They obviously had many conversations, including conversations about the Redress scheme and the like. On the day in July 2009 when the minister announced that the maximum payment would be reduced from $80 000 to $45 000 and the other changes which were outlined by the Attorney General this morning and which I have just repeated, Michelle Stubbs rang Hon Robyn McSweeney. She made contact with Hon Robyn McSweeney’s office and left a message. Hon Robyn McSweeney, the minister, dutifully returned that call and they had a lengthy conversation. Understandably, Michelle Stubbs was upset, she was emotional, and the conversation went on for some time. They know each other well. It was Michelle Stubbs who rang the minister to discuss the issue. She was on the advisory council; she knew what was going on. So to come in here and accuse, as the member for Rockingham did — Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : No, you have to be big enough and man enough to take it now. This is a test of all of you now. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the first time today. Member for Kwinana, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Leader of the Opposition, do you have a supplementary question? Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I am still — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen, I am formally going to call you to order for the first time today. You have a bit to make up, member for Girrawheen. Mr P.C. Tinley interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Willagee, just for the form, I call you to order as well. Mr C.J. BARNETT : It was Michelle Stubbs who called the minister’s office to try to persuade the minister to not reduce the maximum payment. That is clear from her letter today. The minister returned her call, later in the day, and they had a quite lengthy conversation. As I understand it, they talked about the scheme. Point number one: Michelle Stubbs contacted the minister, not the other way around. Point number two: I hope that the member for Rockingham is man enough to apologise, because Hon Robyn McSweeney did not ring Michelle Stubbs to “heavy” her, which he accused her of in this Parliament and which is on the record of this Parliament. I hope he is man enough to apologise to the minister; if not in here, when he sees her in the building. Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : The final point—by way of interjection!—is that Robyn McSweeney said, in the context of a lengthy conversation in which Michelle was extremely emotional, and understandably so, that she did use words along the lines of “let it go through to the keeper”, but that is very different from the accusation that the member for Rockingham made; namely, that the minister got on the phone and “heavied” her. The other accusation made by — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Willagee, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Midland, I formally call you to order for the second time today. I am not particularly interested in being continually on my feet formally calling members to order. It is not something that I want to do on a daily basis, let alone on a minute-by-minute basis! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I will conclude. The question had an implied accusation from the Leader of the Opposition that I and my office had in some way encouraged or got Robyn McSweeney to ring up Michelle Stubbs and “heavy” her. That was the tone of the question. I will tell the Leader of the Opposition that he might do that, the Labor Party might do that, but I do not!
Opposition member: Good question! Mr C.J. BARNETT replied: Yes, it is a good question, and I have a good answer. (1)–(3) We debated this issue this morning, and I want to restate very briefly, if I may, that the previous government, the Labor Party, allocated $90 million to this scheme. It did not cost it properly. It put out and raised an expectation that the victims of abuse under the Redress WA scheme would receive payments up to $85 000, with only two categories. When coming to government we were aware that the previous government had ignored advice that the scheme was under-costed and would probably run, at that rate, to some $200 million—and, yes, in a difficult economic environment, but, also, I think, on proper grounds, this government did reduce the maximum payment from $80 000 to $45 000. We introduced four categories; and, indeed, the payments have flowed and, as I said this morning, the vast majority of people have been assessed and have received not a compensation payment, but an ex gratia payment. The Attorney General also made clear this morning, and I will repeat what he had to say, that apart from the change to the maximum payment, this government also introduced a number of changes—changes very much to the benefit of Redress victims. There was no longer a requirement for psychological and medical assessments, as had been required by Labor. We also removed a requirement under Labor that applicants had to sign a waiver that they would not sue the government. We removed that and protected their legal right, if they chose to, to sue the government. We also introduced a payment of $5 000 for those applicants who may have died during the process. A number have, and their estate, and therefore their families and descendants, has received $5 000. Under Labor, applicants had no right of appeal at all. Labor did not allow that. We allowed a right of appeal — Ms M.M. Quirk : We didn’t need to. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Well, a number of people have appealed. So the previous government took away the right for legal action and it took away the right to appeal; and, to make sure it is correct, once a person had accepted a payment, they had to accept that that was the end of the process and they would not have an appeal. But the former government did not allow that even from the beginning. If their level of assessment, in their mind, was wrong, as may have been the case with Michelle Stubbs, those opposite denied them a right of appeal from the outset. They denied them a right of appeal; they denied them access to the law to take legal action. So I would not be too — Mr M. McGowan : You said all that this morning. Mr C.J. BARNETT : And what did the member say this morning? I will tell the member for Rockingham what he said this morning. What he — Mr W.J. Johnston : What is the answer to the question? Instead of coming in here and telling lies — The SPEAKER : Member for Cannington! Mr C.J. BARNETT : You did not even know the system. Mr R.F. JOHNSON : Mr Speaker — Withdrawal of Remark The SPEAKER : Take a seat, Premier; take a seat, Leader of the House. Member for Cannington, I request that you withdraw that comment. Mr W.J. JOHNSTON : I withdraw. Questions without Notice Resumed Mr C.J. BARNETT : Members opposite hurled accusations across the chamber. I will remember what the member for Joondalup said in particular. Mr W.J. Johnston : What did he say? Mr C.J. BARNETT : I will remember. Mr W.J. Johnston : What did he say? The SPEAKER : Member for Cannington! Mr C.J. BARNETT : I also recall very distinctly the member for Rockingham accusing Hon Robyn McSweeney of heavying—that was his expression — Mr M. McGowan : Yes. Mr C.J. BARNETT : — Michelle Stubbs. Mr M. McGowan : That’s what her letter says. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Jumping to conclusions and jumping to assertions. Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Maybe the member should listen for a little while. Hon Robyn McSweeney has professional experience, and years of experience, in dealing with children who have been abused. At least respect that. She is a professional in the area and has years of experience. Mrs M.H. Roberts : That’s why she should have known better, isn’t it? Mr C.J. BARNETT : Why do you not listen for a moment? Members opposite do not treat this seriously. Mrs M.H. Roberts : You don’t. The SPEAKER : Member for Midland, I formally call you to order for the first time today. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I just remind the house that Hon Robyn McSweeney has had years of experience in dealing with abused children. If anyone in this Parliament is sensitive to that situation, it would be her. If anyone has years of personal and professional experience in the area, it would be her—it would be Hon Robyn McSweeney—yet members opposite, and in particular the member for Rockingham, without any true knowledge of the situation, accused Hon Robyn McSweeney of ringing Michelle Stubbs and heavying her. They were the words that the member for Rockingham used. Mr M. McGowan : They were. Mr C.J. BARNETT : So I have taken the trouble, my office has taken the trouble, of being in contact with Hon Robyn McSweeney, and members opposite might be interested in the truth. “Don’t let the truth get in the way” is the Labor paradigm. But members opposite might be interested this time. Mr E.S. Ripper : I am interested. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Okay; well, why don’t you listen? I will tell you what happened. On the day — Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I will tell you what happened. On the day the announcement was made to reduce the maximum payment from $80 000 to $45 000, and the other changes that I have just outlined, Michelle Stubbs—Michelle Stubbs is a good person; I know her reasonably well—was appointed by Hon Robyn McSweeney — Mrs M.H. Roberts : Now you’re saying she’s a liar. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I have never, Mr Speaker, accused Michelle Stubbs of lying—ever—have I? I actually regard her as a friend. Never ever have I said that. You should withdraw and apologise. The SPEAKER : We have been through some of this this morning and some of you know where you are with it at this point. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I know Michelle Stubbs reasonably well. I have a great deal of respect and admiration for her. I like her as a person, and I fully recognise the incredible hardship that she suffered. No-one should doubt that, and certainly not people who know Michelle. Michelle Stubbs was appointed to the Ministerial Advisory Council on Child Protection by Hon Robyn McSweeney. They obviously had many conversations, including conversations about the Redress scheme and the like. On the day in July 2009 when the minister announced that the maximum payment would be reduced from $80 000 to $45 000 and the other changes which were outlined by the Attorney General this morning and which I have just repeated, Michelle Stubbs rang Hon Robyn McSweeney. She made contact with Hon Robyn McSweeney’s office and left a message. Hon Robyn McSweeney, the minister, dutifully returned that call and they had a lengthy conversation. Understandably, Michelle Stubbs was upset, she was emotional, and the conversation went on for some time. They know each other well. It was Michelle Stubbs who rang the minister to discuss the issue. She was on the advisory council; she knew what was going on. So to come in here and accuse, as the member for Rockingham did — Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : No, you have to be big enough and man enough to take it now. This is a test of all of you now. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the first time today. Member for Kwinana, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Leader of the Opposition, do you have a supplementary question? Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I am still — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen, I am formally going to call you to order for the first time today. You have a bit to make up, member for Girrawheen. Mr P.C. Tinley interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Willagee, just for the form, I call you to order as well. Mr C.J. BARNETT : It was Michelle Stubbs who called the minister’s office to try to persuade the minister to not reduce the maximum payment. That is clear from her letter today. The minister returned her call, later in the day, and they had a quite lengthy conversation. As I understand it, they talked about the scheme. Point number one: Michelle Stubbs contacted the minister, not the other way around. Point number two: I hope that the member for Rockingham is man enough to apologise, because Hon Robyn McSweeney did not ring Michelle Stubbs to “heavy” her, which he accused her of in this Parliament and which is on the record of this Parliament. I hope he is man enough to apologise to the minister; if not in here, when he sees her in the building. Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : The final point—by way of interjection!—is that Robyn McSweeney said, in the context of a lengthy conversation in which Michelle was extremely emotional, and understandably so, that she did use words along the lines of “let it go through to the keeper”, but that is very different from the accusation that the member for Rockingham made; namely, that the minister got on the phone and “heavied” her. The other accusation made by — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Willagee, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Midland, I formally call you to order for the second time today. I am not particularly interested in being continually on my feet formally calling members to order. It is not something that I want to do on a daily basis, let alone on a minute-by-minute basis! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I will conclude. The question had an implied accusation from the Leader of the Opposition that I and my office had in some way encouraged or got Robyn McSweeney to ring up Michelle Stubbs and “heavy” her. That was the tone of the question. I will tell the Leader of the Opposition that he might do that, the Labor Party might do that, but I do not!
Mr C.J. BARNETT replied: Yes, it is a good question, and I have a good answer. (1)–(3) We debated this issue this morning, and I want to restate very briefly, if I may, that the previous government, the Labor Party, allocated $90 million to this scheme. It did not cost it properly. It put out and raised an expectation that the victims of abuse under the Redress WA scheme would receive payments up to $85 000, with only two categories. When coming to government we were aware that the previous government had ignored advice that the scheme was under-costed and would probably run, at that rate, to some $200 million—and, yes, in a difficult economic environment, but, also, I think, on proper grounds, this government did reduce the maximum payment from $80 000 to $45 000. We introduced four categories; and, indeed, the payments have flowed and, as I said this morning, the vast majority of people have been assessed and have received not a compensation payment, but an ex gratia payment. The Attorney General also made clear this morning, and I will repeat what he had to say, that apart from the change to the maximum payment, this government also introduced a number of changes—changes very much to the benefit of Redress victims. There was no longer a requirement for psychological and medical assessments, as had been required by Labor. We also removed a requirement under Labor that applicants had to sign a waiver that they would not sue the government. We removed that and protected their legal right, if they chose to, to sue the government. We also introduced a payment of $5 000 for those applicants who may have died during the process. A number have, and their estate, and therefore their families and descendants, has received $5 000. Under Labor, applicants had no right of appeal at all. Labor did not allow that. We allowed a right of appeal — Ms M.M. Quirk : We didn’t need to. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Well, a number of people have appealed. So the previous government took away the right for legal action and it took away the right to appeal; and, to make sure it is correct, once a person had accepted a payment, they had to accept that that was the end of the process and they would not have an appeal. But the former government did not allow that even from the beginning. If their level of assessment, in their mind, was wrong, as may have been the case with Michelle Stubbs, those opposite denied them a right of appeal from the outset. They denied them a right of appeal; they denied them access to the law to take legal action. So I would not be too — Mr M. McGowan : You said all that this morning. Mr C.J. BARNETT : And what did the member say this morning? I will tell the member for Rockingham what he said this morning. What he — Mr W.J. Johnston : What is the answer to the question? Instead of coming in here and telling lies — The SPEAKER : Member for Cannington! Mr C.J. BARNETT : You did not even know the system. Mr R.F. JOHNSON : Mr Speaker — Withdrawal of Remark The SPEAKER : Take a seat, Premier; take a seat, Leader of the House. Member for Cannington, I request that you withdraw that comment. Mr W.J. JOHNSTON : I withdraw. Questions without Notice Resumed Mr C.J. BARNETT : Members opposite hurled accusations across the chamber. I will remember what the member for Joondalup said in particular. Mr W.J. Johnston : What did he say? Mr C.J. BARNETT : I will remember. Mr W.J. Johnston : What did he say? The SPEAKER : Member for Cannington! Mr C.J. BARNETT : I also recall very distinctly the member for Rockingham accusing Hon Robyn McSweeney of heavying—that was his expression — Mr M. McGowan : Yes. Mr C.J. BARNETT : — Michelle Stubbs. Mr M. McGowan : That’s what her letter says. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Jumping to conclusions and jumping to assertions. Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Maybe the member should listen for a little while. Hon Robyn McSweeney has professional experience, and years of experience, in dealing with children who have been abused. At least respect that. She is a professional in the area and has years of experience. Mrs M.H. Roberts : That’s why she should have known better, isn’t it? Mr C.J. BARNETT : Why do you not listen for a moment? Members opposite do not treat this seriously. Mrs M.H. Roberts : You don’t. The SPEAKER : Member for Midland, I formally call you to order for the first time today. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I just remind the house that Hon Robyn McSweeney has had years of experience in dealing with abused children. If anyone in this Parliament is sensitive to that situation, it would be her. If anyone has years of personal and professional experience in the area, it would be her—it would be Hon Robyn McSweeney—yet members opposite, and in particular the member for Rockingham, without any true knowledge of the situation, accused Hon Robyn McSweeney of ringing Michelle Stubbs and heavying her. They were the words that the member for Rockingham used. Mr M. McGowan : They were. Mr C.J. BARNETT : So I have taken the trouble, my office has taken the trouble, of being in contact with Hon Robyn McSweeney, and members opposite might be interested in the truth. “Don’t let the truth get in the way” is the Labor paradigm. But members opposite might be interested this time. Mr E.S. Ripper : I am interested. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Okay; well, why don’t you listen? I will tell you what happened. On the day — Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I will tell you what happened. On the day the announcement was made to reduce the maximum payment from $80 000 to $45 000, and the other changes that I have just outlined, Michelle Stubbs—Michelle Stubbs is a good person; I know her reasonably well—was appointed by Hon Robyn McSweeney — Mrs M.H. Roberts : Now you’re saying she’s a liar. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I have never, Mr Speaker, accused Michelle Stubbs of lying—ever—have I? I actually regard her as a friend. Never ever have I said that. You should withdraw and apologise. The SPEAKER : We have been through some of this this morning and some of you know where you are with it at this point. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I know Michelle Stubbs reasonably well. I have a great deal of respect and admiration for her. I like her as a person, and I fully recognise the incredible hardship that she suffered. No-one should doubt that, and certainly not people who know Michelle. Michelle Stubbs was appointed to the Ministerial Advisory Council on Child Protection by Hon Robyn McSweeney. They obviously had many conversations, including conversations about the Redress scheme and the like. On the day in July 2009 when the minister announced that the maximum payment would be reduced from $80 000 to $45 000 and the other changes which were outlined by the Attorney General this morning and which I have just repeated, Michelle Stubbs rang Hon Robyn McSweeney. She made contact with Hon Robyn McSweeney’s office and left a message. Hon Robyn McSweeney, the minister, dutifully returned that call and they had a lengthy conversation. Understandably, Michelle Stubbs was upset, she was emotional, and the conversation went on for some time. They know each other well. It was Michelle Stubbs who rang the minister to discuss the issue. She was on the advisory council; she knew what was going on. So to come in here and accuse, as the member for Rockingham did — Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : No, you have to be big enough and man enough to take it now. This is a test of all of you now. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the first time today. Member for Kwinana, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Leader of the Opposition, do you have a supplementary question? Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I am still — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen, I am formally going to call you to order for the first time today. You have a bit to make up, member for Girrawheen. Mr P.C. Tinley interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Willagee, just for the form, I call you to order as well. Mr C.J. BARNETT : It was Michelle Stubbs who called the minister’s office to try to persuade the minister to not reduce the maximum payment. That is clear from her letter today. The minister returned her call, later in the day, and they had a quite lengthy conversation. As I understand it, they talked about the scheme. Point number one: Michelle Stubbs contacted the minister, not the other way around. Point number two: I hope that the member for Rockingham is man enough to apologise, because Hon Robyn McSweeney did not ring Michelle Stubbs to “heavy” her, which he accused her of in this Parliament and which is on the record of this Parliament. I hope he is man enough to apologise to the minister; if not in here, when he sees her in the building. Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : The final point—by way of interjection!—is that Robyn McSweeney said, in the context of a lengthy conversation in which Michelle was extremely emotional, and understandably so, that she did use words along the lines of “let it go through to the keeper”, but that is very different from the accusation that the member for Rockingham made; namely, that the minister got on the phone and “heavied” her. The other accusation made by — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Willagee, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Midland, I formally call you to order for the second time today. I am not particularly interested in being continually on my feet formally calling members to order. It is not something that I want to do on a daily basis, let alone on a minute-by-minute basis! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I will conclude. The question had an implied accusation from the Leader of the Opposition that I and my office had in some way encouraged or got Robyn McSweeney to ring up Michelle Stubbs and “heavy” her. That was the tone of the question. I will tell the Leader of the Opposition that he might do that, the Labor Party might do that, but I do not!
Yes, it is a good question, and I have a good answer. (1)–(3) We debated this issue this morning, and I want to restate very briefly, if I may, that the previous government, the Labor Party, allocated $90 million to this scheme. It did not cost it properly. It put out and raised an expectation that the victims of abuse under the Redress WA scheme would receive payments up to $85 000, with only two categories. When coming to government we were aware that the previous government had ignored advice that the scheme was under-costed and would probably run, at that rate, to some $200 million—and, yes, in a difficult economic environment, but, also, I think, on proper grounds, this government did reduce the maximum payment from $80 000 to $45 000. We introduced four categories; and, indeed, the payments have flowed and, as I said this morning, the vast majority of people have been assessed and have received not a compensation payment, but an ex gratia payment. The Attorney General also made clear this morning, and I will repeat what he had to say, that apart from the change to the maximum payment, this government also introduced a number of changes—changes very much to the benefit of Redress victims. There was no longer a requirement for psychological and medical assessments, as had been required by Labor. We also removed a requirement under Labor that applicants had to sign a waiver that they would not sue the government. We removed that and protected their legal right, if they chose to, to sue the government. We also introduced a payment of $5 000 for those applicants who may have died during the process. A number have, and their estate, and therefore their families and descendants, has received $5 000. Under Labor, applicants had no right of appeal at all. Labor did not allow that. We allowed a right of appeal — Ms M.M. Quirk : We didn’t need to. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Well, a number of people have appealed. So the previous government took away the right for legal action and it took away the right to appeal; and, to make sure it is correct, once a person had accepted a payment, they had to accept that that was the end of the process and they would not have an appeal. But the former government did not allow that even from the beginning. If their level of assessment, in their mind, was wrong, as may have been the case with Michelle Stubbs, those opposite denied them a right of appeal from the outset. They denied them a right of appeal; they denied them access to the law to take legal action. So I would not be too — Mr M. McGowan : You said all that this morning. Mr C.J. BARNETT : And what did the member say this morning? I will tell the member for Rockingham what he said this morning. What he — Mr W.J. Johnston : What is the answer to the question? Instead of coming in here and telling lies — The SPEAKER : Member for Cannington! Mr C.J. BARNETT : You did not even know the system. Mr R.F. JOHNSON : Mr Speaker — Withdrawal of Remark The SPEAKER : Take a seat, Premier; take a seat, Leader of the House. Member for Cannington, I request that you withdraw that comment. Mr W.J. JOHNSTON : I withdraw. Questions without Notice Resumed Mr C.J. BARNETT : Members opposite hurled accusations across the chamber. I will remember what the member for Joondalup said in particular. Mr W.J. Johnston : What did he say? Mr C.J. BARNETT : I will remember. Mr W.J. Johnston : What did he say? The SPEAKER : Member for Cannington! Mr C.J. BARNETT : I also recall very distinctly the member for Rockingham accusing Hon Robyn McSweeney of heavying—that was his expression — Mr M. McGowan : Yes. Mr C.J. BARNETT : — Michelle Stubbs. Mr M. McGowan : That’s what her letter says. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Jumping to conclusions and jumping to assertions. Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Maybe the member should listen for a little while. Hon Robyn McSweeney has professional experience, and years of experience, in dealing with children who have been abused. At least respect that. She is a professional in the area and has years of experience. Mrs M.H. Roberts : That’s why she should have known better, isn’t it? Mr C.J. BARNETT : Why do you not listen for a moment? Members opposite do not treat this seriously. Mrs M.H. Roberts : You don’t. The SPEAKER : Member for Midland, I formally call you to order for the first time today. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I just remind the house that Hon Robyn McSweeney has had years of experience in dealing with abused children. If anyone in this Parliament is sensitive to that situation, it would be her. If anyone has years of personal and professional experience in the area, it would be her—it would be Hon Robyn McSweeney—yet members opposite, and in particular the member for Rockingham, without any true knowledge of the situation, accused Hon Robyn McSweeney of ringing Michelle Stubbs and heavying her. They were the words that the member for Rockingham used. Mr M. McGowan : They were. Mr C.J. BARNETT : So I have taken the trouble, my office has taken the trouble, of being in contact with Hon Robyn McSweeney, and members opposite might be interested in the truth. “Don’t let the truth get in the way” is the Labor paradigm. But members opposite might be interested this time. Mr E.S. Ripper : I am interested. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Okay; well, why don’t you listen? I will tell you what happened. On the day — Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I will tell you what happened. On the day the announcement was made to reduce the maximum payment from $80 000 to $45 000, and the other changes that I have just outlined, Michelle Stubbs—Michelle Stubbs is a good person; I know her reasonably well—was appointed by Hon Robyn McSweeney — Mrs M.H. Roberts : Now you’re saying she’s a liar. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I have never, Mr Speaker, accused Michelle Stubbs of lying—ever—have I? I actually regard her as a friend. Never ever have I said that. You should withdraw and apologise. The SPEAKER : We have been through some of this this morning and some of you know where you are with it at this point. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I know Michelle Stubbs reasonably well. I have a great deal of respect and admiration for her. I like her as a person, and I fully recognise the incredible hardship that she suffered. No-one should doubt that, and certainly not people who know Michelle. Michelle Stubbs was appointed to the Ministerial Advisory Council on Child Protection by Hon Robyn McSweeney. They obviously had many conversations, including conversations about the Redress scheme and the like. On the day in July 2009 when the minister announced that the maximum payment would be reduced from $80 000 to $45 000 and the other changes which were outlined by the Attorney General this morning and which I have just repeated, Michelle Stubbs rang Hon Robyn McSweeney. She made contact with Hon Robyn McSweeney’s office and left a message. Hon Robyn McSweeney, the minister, dutifully returned that call and they had a lengthy conversation. Understandably, Michelle Stubbs was upset, she was emotional, and the conversation went on for some time. They know each other well. It was Michelle Stubbs who rang the minister to discuss the issue. She was on the advisory council; she knew what was going on. So to come in here and accuse, as the member for Rockingham did — Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : No, you have to be big enough and man enough to take it now. This is a test of all of you now. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the first time today. Member for Kwinana, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Leader of the Opposition, do you have a supplementary question? Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I am still — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen, I am formally going to call you to order for the first time today. You have a bit to make up, member for Girrawheen. Mr P.C. Tinley interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Willagee, just for the form, I call you to order as well. Mr C.J. BARNETT : It was Michelle Stubbs who called the minister’s office to try to persuade the minister to not reduce the maximum payment. That is clear from her letter today. The minister returned her call, later in the day, and they had a quite lengthy conversation. As I understand it, they talked about the scheme. Point number one: Michelle Stubbs contacted the minister, not the other way around. Point number two: I hope that the member for Rockingham is man enough to apologise, because Hon Robyn McSweeney did not ring Michelle Stubbs to “heavy” her, which he accused her of in this Parliament and which is on the record of this Parliament. I hope he is man enough to apologise to the minister; if not in here, when he sees her in the building. Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : The final point—by way of interjection!—is that Robyn McSweeney said, in the context of a lengthy conversation in which Michelle was extremely emotional, and understandably so, that she did use words along the lines of “let it go through to the keeper”, but that is very different from the accusation that the member for Rockingham made; namely, that the minister got on the phone and “heavied” her. The other accusation made by — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Willagee, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Midland, I formally call you to order for the second time today. I am not particularly interested in being continually on my feet formally calling members to order. It is not something that I want to do on a daily basis, let alone on a minute-by-minute basis! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I will conclude. The question had an implied accusation from the Leader of the Opposition that I and my office had in some way encouraged or got Robyn McSweeney to ring up Michelle Stubbs and “heavy” her. That was the tone of the question. I will tell the Leader of the Opposition that he might do that, the Labor Party might do that, but I do not!
(1)–(3) We debated this issue this morning, and I want to restate very briefly, if I may, that the previous government, the Labor Party, allocated $90 million to this scheme. It did not cost it properly. It put out and raised an expectation that the victims of abuse under the Redress WA scheme would receive payments up to $85 000, with only two categories. When coming to government we were aware that the previous government had ignored advice that the scheme was under-costed and would probably run, at that rate, to some $200 million—and, yes, in a difficult economic environment, but, also, I think, on proper grounds, this government did reduce the maximum payment from $80 000 to $45 000. We introduced four categories; and, indeed, the payments have flowed and, as I said this morning, the vast majority of people have been assessed and have received not a compensation payment, but an ex gratia payment. The Attorney General also made clear this morning, and I will repeat what he had to say, that apart from the change to the maximum payment, this government also introduced a number of changes—changes very much to the benefit of Redress victims. There was no longer a requirement for psychological and medical assessments, as had been required by Labor. We also removed a requirement under Labor that applicants had to sign a waiver that they would not sue the government. We removed that and protected their legal right, if they chose to, to sue the government. We also introduced a payment of $5 000 for those applicants who may have died during the process. A number have, and their estate, and therefore their families and descendants, has received $5 000. Under Labor, applicants had no right of appeal at all. Labor did not allow that. We allowed a right of appeal — Ms M.M. Quirk : We didn’t need to. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Well, a number of people have appealed. So the previous government took away the right for legal action and it took away the right to appeal; and, to make sure it is correct, once a person had accepted a payment, they had to accept that that was the end of the process and they would not have an appeal. But the former government did not allow that even from the beginning. If their level of assessment, in their mind, was wrong, as may have been the case with Michelle Stubbs, those opposite denied them a right of appeal from the outset. They denied them a right of appeal; they denied them access to the law to take legal action. So I would not be too — Mr M. McGowan : You said all that this morning. Mr C.J. BARNETT : And what did the member say this morning? I will tell the member for Rockingham what he said this morning. What he — Mr W.J. Johnston : What is the answer to the question? Instead of coming in here and telling lies — The SPEAKER : Member for Cannington! Mr C.J. BARNETT : You did not even know the system. Mr R.F. JOHNSON : Mr Speaker — Withdrawal of Remark The SPEAKER : Take a seat, Premier; take a seat, Leader of the House. Member for Cannington, I request that you withdraw that comment. Mr W.J. JOHNSTON : I withdraw. Questions without Notice Resumed Mr C.J. BARNETT : Members opposite hurled accusations across the chamber. I will remember what the member for Joondalup said in particular. Mr W.J. Johnston : What did he say? Mr C.J. BARNETT : I will remember. Mr W.J. Johnston : What did he say? The SPEAKER : Member for Cannington! Mr C.J. BARNETT : I also recall very distinctly the member for Rockingham accusing Hon Robyn McSweeney of heavying—that was his expression — Mr M. McGowan : Yes. Mr C.J. BARNETT : — Michelle Stubbs. Mr M. McGowan : That’s what her letter says. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Jumping to conclusions and jumping to assertions. Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Maybe the member should listen for a little while. Hon Robyn McSweeney has professional experience, and years of experience, in dealing with children who have been abused. At least respect that. She is a professional in the area and has years of experience. Mrs M.H. Roberts : That’s why she should have known better, isn’t it? Mr C.J. BARNETT : Why do you not listen for a moment? Members opposite do not treat this seriously. Mrs M.H. Roberts : You don’t. The SPEAKER : Member for Midland, I formally call you to order for the first time today. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I just remind the house that Hon Robyn McSweeney has had years of experience in dealing with abused children. If anyone in this Parliament is sensitive to that situation, it would be her. If anyone has years of personal and professional experience in the area, it would be her—it would be Hon Robyn McSweeney—yet members opposite, and in particular the member for Rockingham, without any true knowledge of the situation, accused Hon Robyn McSweeney of ringing Michelle Stubbs and heavying her. They were the words that the member for Rockingham used. Mr M. McGowan : They were. Mr C.J. BARNETT : So I have taken the trouble, my office has taken the trouble, of being in contact with Hon Robyn McSweeney, and members opposite might be interested in the truth. “Don’t let the truth get in the way” is the Labor paradigm. But members opposite might be interested this time. Mr E.S. Ripper : I am interested. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Okay; well, why don’t you listen? I will tell you what happened. On the day — Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I will tell you what happened. On the day the announcement was made to reduce the maximum payment from $80 000 to $45 000, and the other changes that I have just outlined, Michelle Stubbs—Michelle Stubbs is a good person; I know her reasonably well—was appointed by Hon Robyn McSweeney — Mrs M.H. Roberts : Now you’re saying she’s a liar. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I have never, Mr Speaker, accused Michelle Stubbs of lying—ever—have I? I actually regard her as a friend. Never ever have I said that. You should withdraw and apologise. The SPEAKER : We have been through some of this this morning and some of you know where you are with it at this point. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I know Michelle Stubbs reasonably well. I have a great deal of respect and admiration for her. I like her as a person, and I fully recognise the incredible hardship that she suffered. No-one should doubt that, and certainly not people who know Michelle. Michelle Stubbs was appointed to the Ministerial Advisory Council on Child Protection by Hon Robyn McSweeney. They obviously had many conversations, including conversations about the Redress scheme and the like. On the day in July 2009 when the minister announced that the maximum payment would be reduced from $80 000 to $45 000 and the other changes which were outlined by the Attorney General this morning and which I have just repeated, Michelle Stubbs rang Hon Robyn McSweeney. She made contact with Hon Robyn McSweeney’s office and left a message. Hon Robyn McSweeney, the minister, dutifully returned that call and they had a lengthy conversation. Understandably, Michelle Stubbs was upset, she was emotional, and the conversation went on for some time. They know each other well. It was Michelle Stubbs who rang the minister to discuss the issue. She was on the advisory council; she knew what was going on. So to come in here and accuse, as the member for Rockingham did — Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : No, you have to be big enough and man enough to take it now. This is a test of all of you now. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the first time today. Member for Kwinana, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Leader of the Opposition, do you have a supplementary question? Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I am still — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen, I am formally going to call you to order for the first time today. You have a bit to make up, member for Girrawheen. Mr P.C. Tinley interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Willagee, just for the form, I call you to order as well. Mr C.J. BARNETT : It was Michelle Stubbs who called the minister’s office to try to persuade the minister to not reduce the maximum payment. That is clear from her letter today. The minister returned her call, later in the day, and they had a quite lengthy conversation. As I understand it, they talked about the scheme. Point number one: Michelle Stubbs contacted the minister, not the other way around. Point number two: I hope that the member for Rockingham is man enough to apologise, because Hon Robyn McSweeney did not ring Michelle Stubbs to “heavy” her, which he accused her of in this Parliament and which is on the record of this Parliament. I hope he is man enough to apologise to the minister; if not in here, when he sees her in the building. Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : The final point—by way of interjection!—is that Robyn McSweeney said, in the context of a lengthy conversation in which Michelle was extremely emotional, and understandably so, that she did use words along the lines of “let it go through to the keeper”, but that is very different from the accusation that the member for Rockingham made; namely, that the minister got on the phone and “heavied” her. The other accusation made by — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Willagee, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Midland, I formally call you to order for the second time today. I am not particularly interested in being continually on my feet formally calling members to order. It is not something that I want to do on a daily basis, let alone on a minute-by-minute basis! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I will conclude. The question had an implied accusation from the Leader of the Opposition that I and my office had in some way encouraged or got Robyn McSweeney to ring up Michelle Stubbs and “heavy” her. That was the tone of the question. I will tell the Leader of the Opposition that he might do that, the Labor Party might do that, but I do not!
The Attorney General also made clear this morning, and I will repeat what he had to say, that apart from the change to the maximum payment, this government also introduced a number of changes—changes very much to the benefit of Redress victims. There was no longer a requirement for psychological and medical assessments, as had been required by Labor. We also removed a requirement under Labor that applicants had to sign a waiver that they would not sue the government. We removed that and protected their legal right, if they chose to, to sue the government. We also introduced a payment of $5 000 for those applicants who may have died during the process. A number have, and their estate, and therefore their families and descendants, has received $5 000. Under Labor, applicants had no right of appeal at all. Labor did not allow that. We allowed a right of appeal — Ms M.M. Quirk : We didn’t need to. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Well, a number of people have appealed. So the previous government took away the right for legal action and it took away the right to appeal; and, to make sure it is correct, once a person had accepted a payment, they had to accept that that was the end of the process and they would not have an appeal. But the former government did not allow that even from the beginning. If their level of assessment, in their mind, was wrong, as may have been the case with Michelle Stubbs, those opposite denied them a right of appeal from the outset. They denied them a right of appeal; they denied them access to the law to take legal action. So I would not be too — Mr M. McGowan : You said all that this morning. Mr C.J. BARNETT : And what did the member say this morning? I will tell the member for Rockingham what he said this morning. What he — Mr W.J. Johnston : What is the answer to the question? Instead of coming in here and telling lies — The SPEAKER : Member for Cannington! Mr C.J. BARNETT : You did not even know the system. Mr R.F. JOHNSON : Mr Speaker — Withdrawal of Remark The SPEAKER : Take a seat, Premier; take a seat, Leader of the House. Member for Cannington, I request that you withdraw that comment. Mr W.J. JOHNSTON : I withdraw. Questions without Notice Resumed Mr C.J. BARNETT : Members opposite hurled accusations across the chamber. I will remember what the member for Joondalup said in particular. Mr W.J. Johnston : What did he say? Mr C.J. BARNETT : I will remember. Mr W.J. Johnston : What did he say? The SPEAKER : Member for Cannington! Mr C.J. BARNETT : I also recall very distinctly the member for Rockingham accusing Hon Robyn McSweeney of heavying—that was his expression — Mr M. McGowan : Yes. Mr C.J. BARNETT : — Michelle Stubbs. Mr M. McGowan : That’s what her letter says. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Jumping to conclusions and jumping to assertions. Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Maybe the member should listen for a little while. Hon Robyn McSweeney has professional experience, and years of experience, in dealing with children who have been abused. At least respect that. She is a professional in the area and has years of experience. Mrs M.H. Roberts : That’s why she should have known better, isn’t it? Mr C.J. BARNETT : Why do you not listen for a moment? Members opposite do not treat this seriously. Mrs M.H. Roberts : You don’t. The SPEAKER : Member for Midland, I formally call you to order for the first time today. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I just remind the house that Hon Robyn McSweeney has had years of experience in dealing with abused children. If anyone in this Parliament is sensitive to that situation, it would be her. If anyone has years of personal and professional experience in the area, it would be her—it would be Hon Robyn McSweeney—yet members opposite, and in particular the member for Rockingham, without any true knowledge of the situation, accused Hon Robyn McSweeney of ringing Michelle Stubbs and heavying her. They were the words that the member for Rockingham used. Mr M. McGowan : They were. Mr C.J. BARNETT : So I have taken the trouble, my office has taken the trouble, of being in contact with Hon Robyn McSweeney, and members opposite might be interested in the truth. “Don’t let the truth get in the way” is the Labor paradigm. But members opposite might be interested this time. Mr E.S. Ripper : I am interested. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Okay; well, why don’t you listen? I will tell you what happened. On the day — Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I will tell you what happened. On the day the announcement was made to reduce the maximum payment from $80 000 to $45 000, and the other changes that I have just outlined, Michelle Stubbs—Michelle Stubbs is a good person; I know her reasonably well—was appointed by Hon Robyn McSweeney — Mrs M.H. Roberts : Now you’re saying she’s a liar. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I have never, Mr Speaker, accused Michelle Stubbs of lying—ever—have I? I actually regard her as a friend. Never ever have I said that. You should withdraw and apologise. The SPEAKER : We have been through some of this this morning and some of you know where you are with it at this point. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I know Michelle Stubbs reasonably well. I have a great deal of respect and admiration for her. I like her as a person, and I fully recognise the incredible hardship that she suffered. No-one should doubt that, and certainly not people who know Michelle. Michelle Stubbs was appointed to the Ministerial Advisory Council on Child Protection by Hon Robyn McSweeney. They obviously had many conversations, including conversations about the Redress scheme and the like. On the day in July 2009 when the minister announced that the maximum payment would be reduced from $80 000 to $45 000 and the other changes which were outlined by the Attorney General this morning and which I have just repeated, Michelle Stubbs rang Hon Robyn McSweeney. She made contact with Hon Robyn McSweeney’s office and left a message. Hon Robyn McSweeney, the minister, dutifully returned that call and they had a lengthy conversation. Understandably, Michelle Stubbs was upset, she was emotional, and the conversation went on for some time. They know each other well. It was Michelle Stubbs who rang the minister to discuss the issue. She was on the advisory council; she knew what was going on. So to come in here and accuse, as the member for Rockingham did — Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : No, you have to be big enough and man enough to take it now. This is a test of all of you now. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the first time today. Member for Kwinana, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Leader of the Opposition, do you have a supplementary question? Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I am still — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen, I am formally going to call you to order for the first time today. You have a bit to make up, member for Girrawheen. Mr P.C. Tinley interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Willagee, just for the form, I call you to order as well. Mr C.J. BARNETT : It was Michelle Stubbs who called the minister’s office to try to persuade the minister to not reduce the maximum payment. That is clear from her letter today. The minister returned her call, later in the day, and they had a quite lengthy conversation. As I understand it, they talked about the scheme. Point number one: Michelle Stubbs contacted the minister, not the other way around. Point number two: I hope that the member for Rockingham is man enough to apologise, because Hon Robyn McSweeney did not ring Michelle Stubbs to “heavy” her, which he accused her of in this Parliament and which is on the record of this Parliament. I hope he is man enough to apologise to the minister; if not in here, when he sees her in the building. Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : The final point—by way of interjection!—is that Robyn McSweeney said, in the context of a lengthy conversation in which Michelle was extremely emotional, and understandably so, that she did use words along the lines of “let it go through to the keeper”, but that is very different from the accusation that the member for Rockingham made; namely, that the minister got on the phone and “heavied” her. The other accusation made by — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Willagee, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Midland, I formally call you to order for the second time today. I am not particularly interested in being continually on my feet formally calling members to order. It is not something that I want to do on a daily basis, let alone on a minute-by-minute basis! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I will conclude. The question had an implied accusation from the Leader of the Opposition that I and my office had in some way encouraged or got Robyn McSweeney to ring up Michelle Stubbs and “heavy” her. That was the tone of the question. I will tell the Leader of the Opposition that he might do that, the Labor Party might do that, but I do not!
Under Labor, applicants had no right of appeal at all. Labor did not allow that. We allowed a right of appeal — Ms M.M. Quirk : We didn’t need to. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Well, a number of people have appealed. So the previous government took away the right for legal action and it took away the right to appeal; and, to make sure it is correct, once a person had accepted a payment, they had to accept that that was the end of the process and they would not have an appeal. But the former government did not allow that even from the beginning. If their level of assessment, in their mind, was wrong, as may have been the case with Michelle Stubbs, those opposite denied them a right of appeal from the outset. They denied them a right of appeal; they denied them access to the law to take legal action. So I would not be too — Mr M. McGowan : You said all that this morning. Mr C.J. BARNETT : And what did the member say this morning? I will tell the member for Rockingham what he said this morning. What he — Mr W.J. Johnston : What is the answer to the question? Instead of coming in here and telling lies — The SPEAKER : Member for Cannington! Mr C.J. BARNETT : You did not even know the system. Mr R.F. JOHNSON : Mr Speaker — Withdrawal of Remark The SPEAKER : Take a seat, Premier; take a seat, Leader of the House. Member for Cannington, I request that you withdraw that comment. Mr W.J. JOHNSTON : I withdraw. Questions without Notice Resumed Mr C.J. BARNETT : Members opposite hurled accusations across the chamber. I will remember what the member for Joondalup said in particular. Mr W.J. Johnston : What did he say? Mr C.J. BARNETT : I will remember. Mr W.J. Johnston : What did he say? The SPEAKER : Member for Cannington! Mr C.J. BARNETT : I also recall very distinctly the member for Rockingham accusing Hon Robyn McSweeney of heavying—that was his expression — Mr M. McGowan : Yes. Mr C.J. BARNETT : — Michelle Stubbs. Mr M. McGowan : That’s what her letter says. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Jumping to conclusions and jumping to assertions. Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Maybe the member should listen for a little while. Hon Robyn McSweeney has professional experience, and years of experience, in dealing with children who have been abused. At least respect that. She is a professional in the area and has years of experience. Mrs M.H. Roberts : That’s why she should have known better, isn’t it? Mr C.J. BARNETT : Why do you not listen for a moment? Members opposite do not treat this seriously. Mrs M.H. Roberts : You don’t. The SPEAKER : Member for Midland, I formally call you to order for the first time today. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I just remind the house that Hon Robyn McSweeney has had years of experience in dealing with abused children. If anyone in this Parliament is sensitive to that situation, it would be her. If anyone has years of personal and professional experience in the area, it would be her—it would be Hon Robyn McSweeney—yet members opposite, and in particular the member for Rockingham, without any true knowledge of the situation, accused Hon Robyn McSweeney of ringing Michelle Stubbs and heavying her. They were the words that the member for Rockingham used. Mr M. McGowan : They were. Mr C.J. BARNETT : So I have taken the trouble, my office has taken the trouble, of being in contact with Hon Robyn McSweeney, and members opposite might be interested in the truth. “Don’t let the truth get in the way” is the Labor paradigm. But members opposite might be interested this time. Mr E.S. Ripper : I am interested. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Okay; well, why don’t you listen? I will tell you what happened. On the day — Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I will tell you what happened. On the day the announcement was made to reduce the maximum payment from $80 000 to $45 000, and the other changes that I have just outlined, Michelle Stubbs—Michelle Stubbs is a good person; I know her reasonably well—was appointed by Hon Robyn McSweeney — Mrs M.H. Roberts : Now you’re saying she’s a liar. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I have never, Mr Speaker, accused Michelle Stubbs of lying—ever—have I? I actually regard her as a friend. Never ever have I said that. You should withdraw and apologise. The SPEAKER : We have been through some of this this morning and some of you know where you are with it at this point. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I know Michelle Stubbs reasonably well. I have a great deal of respect and admiration for her. I like her as a person, and I fully recognise the incredible hardship that she suffered. No-one should doubt that, and certainly not people who know Michelle. Michelle Stubbs was appointed to the Ministerial Advisory Council on Child Protection by Hon Robyn McSweeney. They obviously had many conversations, including conversations about the Redress scheme and the like. On the day in July 2009 when the minister announced that the maximum payment would be reduced from $80 000 to $45 000 and the other changes which were outlined by the Attorney General this morning and which I have just repeated, Michelle Stubbs rang Hon Robyn McSweeney. She made contact with Hon Robyn McSweeney’s office and left a message. Hon Robyn McSweeney, the minister, dutifully returned that call and they had a lengthy conversation. Understandably, Michelle Stubbs was upset, she was emotional, and the conversation went on for some time. They know each other well. It was Michelle Stubbs who rang the minister to discuss the issue. She was on the advisory council; she knew what was going on. So to come in here and accuse, as the member for Rockingham did — Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : No, you have to be big enough and man enough to take it now. This is a test of all of you now. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the first time today. Member for Kwinana, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Leader of the Opposition, do you have a supplementary question? Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I am still — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen, I am formally going to call you to order for the first time today. You have a bit to make up, member for Girrawheen. Mr P.C. Tinley interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Willagee, just for the form, I call you to order as well. Mr C.J. BARNETT : It was Michelle Stubbs who called the minister’s office to try to persuade the minister to not reduce the maximum payment. That is clear from her letter today. The minister returned her call, later in the day, and they had a quite lengthy conversation. As I understand it, they talked about the scheme. Point number one: Michelle Stubbs contacted the minister, not the other way around. Point number two: I hope that the member for Rockingham is man enough to apologise, because Hon Robyn McSweeney did not ring Michelle Stubbs to “heavy” her, which he accused her of in this Parliament and which is on the record of this Parliament. I hope he is man enough to apologise to the minister; if not in here, when he sees her in the building. Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : The final point—by way of interjection!—is that Robyn McSweeney said, in the context of a lengthy conversation in which Michelle was extremely emotional, and understandably so, that she did use words along the lines of “let it go through to the keeper”, but that is very different from the accusation that the member for Rockingham made; namely, that the minister got on the phone and “heavied” her. The other accusation made by — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Willagee, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Midland, I formally call you to order for the second time today. I am not particularly interested in being continually on my feet formally calling members to order. It is not something that I want to do on a daily basis, let alone on a minute-by-minute basis! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I will conclude. The question had an implied accusation from the Leader of the Opposition that I and my office had in some way encouraged or got Robyn McSweeney to ring up Michelle Stubbs and “heavy” her. That was the tone of the question. I will tell the Leader of the Opposition that he might do that, the Labor Party might do that, but I do not!
Ms M.M. Quirk : We didn’t need to. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Well, a number of people have appealed. So the previous government took away the right for legal action and it took away the right to appeal; and, to make sure it is correct, once a person had accepted a payment, they had to accept that that was the end of the process and they would not have an appeal. But the former government did not allow that even from the beginning. If their level of assessment, in their mind, was wrong, as may have been the case with Michelle Stubbs, those opposite denied them a right of appeal from the outset. They denied them a right of appeal; they denied them access to the law to take legal action. So I would not be too — Mr M. McGowan : You said all that this morning. Mr C.J. BARNETT : And what did the member say this morning? I will tell the member for Rockingham what he said this morning. What he — Mr W.J. Johnston : What is the answer to the question? Instead of coming in here and telling lies — The SPEAKER : Member for Cannington! Mr C.J. BARNETT : You did not even know the system. Mr R.F. JOHNSON : Mr Speaker — Withdrawal of Remark The SPEAKER : Take a seat, Premier; take a seat, Leader of the House. Member for Cannington, I request that you withdraw that comment. Mr W.J. JOHNSTON : I withdraw. Questions without Notice Resumed Mr C.J. BARNETT : Members opposite hurled accusations across the chamber. I will remember what the member for Joondalup said in particular. Mr W.J. Johnston : What did he say? Mr C.J. BARNETT : I will remember. Mr W.J. Johnston : What did he say? The SPEAKER : Member for Cannington! Mr C.J. BARNETT : I also recall very distinctly the member for Rockingham accusing Hon Robyn McSweeney of heavying—that was his expression — Mr M. McGowan : Yes. Mr C.J. BARNETT : — Michelle Stubbs. Mr M. McGowan : That’s what her letter says. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Jumping to conclusions and jumping to assertions. Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Maybe the member should listen for a little while. Hon Robyn McSweeney has professional experience, and years of experience, in dealing with children who have been abused. At least respect that. She is a professional in the area and has years of experience. Mrs M.H. Roberts : That’s why she should have known better, isn’t it? Mr C.J. BARNETT : Why do you not listen for a moment? Members opposite do not treat this seriously. Mrs M.H. Roberts : You don’t. The SPEAKER : Member for Midland, I formally call you to order for the first time today. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I just remind the house that Hon Robyn McSweeney has had years of experience in dealing with abused children. If anyone in this Parliament is sensitive to that situation, it would be her. If anyone has years of personal and professional experience in the area, it would be her—it would be Hon Robyn McSweeney—yet members opposite, and in particular the member for Rockingham, without any true knowledge of the situation, accused Hon Robyn McSweeney of ringing Michelle Stubbs and heavying her. They were the words that the member for Rockingham used. Mr M. McGowan : They were. Mr C.J. BARNETT : So I have taken the trouble, my office has taken the trouble, of being in contact with Hon Robyn McSweeney, and members opposite might be interested in the truth. “Don’t let the truth get in the way” is the Labor paradigm. But members opposite might be interested this time. Mr E.S. Ripper : I am interested. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Okay; well, why don’t you listen? I will tell you what happened. On the day — Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I will tell you what happened. On the day the announcement was made to reduce the maximum payment from $80 000 to $45 000, and the other changes that I have just outlined, Michelle Stubbs—Michelle Stubbs is a good person; I know her reasonably well—was appointed by Hon Robyn McSweeney — Mrs M.H. Roberts : Now you’re saying she’s a liar. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I have never, Mr Speaker, accused Michelle Stubbs of lying—ever—have I? I actually regard her as a friend. Never ever have I said that. You should withdraw and apologise. The SPEAKER : We have been through some of this this morning and some of you know where you are with it at this point. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I know Michelle Stubbs reasonably well. I have a great deal of respect and admiration for her. I like her as a person, and I fully recognise the incredible hardship that she suffered. No-one should doubt that, and certainly not people who know Michelle. Michelle Stubbs was appointed to the Ministerial Advisory Council on Child Protection by Hon Robyn McSweeney. They obviously had many conversations, including conversations about the Redress scheme and the like. On the day in July 2009 when the minister announced that the maximum payment would be reduced from $80 000 to $45 000 and the other changes which were outlined by the Attorney General this morning and which I have just repeated, Michelle Stubbs rang Hon Robyn McSweeney. She made contact with Hon Robyn McSweeney’s office and left a message. Hon Robyn McSweeney, the minister, dutifully returned that call and they had a lengthy conversation. Understandably, Michelle Stubbs was upset, she was emotional, and the conversation went on for some time. They know each other well. It was Michelle Stubbs who rang the minister to discuss the issue. She was on the advisory council; she knew what was going on. So to come in here and accuse, as the member for Rockingham did — Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : No, you have to be big enough and man enough to take it now. This is a test of all of you now. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the first time today. Member for Kwinana, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Leader of the Opposition, do you have a supplementary question? Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I am still — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen, I am formally going to call you to order for the first time today. You have a bit to make up, member for Girrawheen. Mr P.C. Tinley interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Willagee, just for the form, I call you to order as well. Mr C.J. BARNETT : It was Michelle Stubbs who called the minister’s office to try to persuade the minister to not reduce the maximum payment. That is clear from her letter today. The minister returned her call, later in the day, and they had a quite lengthy conversation. As I understand it, they talked about the scheme. Point number one: Michelle Stubbs contacted the minister, not the other way around. Point number two: I hope that the member for Rockingham is man enough to apologise, because Hon Robyn McSweeney did not ring Michelle Stubbs to “heavy” her, which he accused her of in this Parliament and which is on the record of this Parliament. I hope he is man enough to apologise to the minister; if not in here, when he sees her in the building. Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : The final point—by way of interjection!—is that Robyn McSweeney said, in the context of a lengthy conversation in which Michelle was extremely emotional, and understandably so, that she did use words along the lines of “let it go through to the keeper”, but that is very different from the accusation that the member for Rockingham made; namely, that the minister got on the phone and “heavied” her. The other accusation made by — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Willagee, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Midland, I formally call you to order for the second time today. I am not particularly interested in being continually on my feet formally calling members to order. It is not something that I want to do on a daily basis, let alone on a minute-by-minute basis! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I will conclude. The question had an implied accusation from the Leader of the Opposition that I and my office had in some way encouraged or got Robyn McSweeney to ring up Michelle Stubbs and “heavy” her. That was the tone of the question. I will tell the Leader of the Opposition that he might do that, the Labor Party might do that, but I do not!
Mr C.J. BARNETT : Well, a number of people have appealed. So the previous government took away the right for legal action and it took away the right to appeal; and, to make sure it is correct, once a person had accepted a payment, they had to accept that that was the end of the process and they would not have an appeal. But the former government did not allow that even from the beginning. If their level of assessment, in their mind, was wrong, as may have been the case with Michelle Stubbs, those opposite denied them a right of appeal from the outset. They denied them a right of appeal; they denied them access to the law to take legal action. So I would not be too — Mr M. McGowan : You said all that this morning. Mr C.J. BARNETT : And what did the member say this morning? I will tell the member for Rockingham what he said this morning. What he — Mr W.J. Johnston : What is the answer to the question? Instead of coming in here and telling lies — The SPEAKER : Member for Cannington! Mr C.J. BARNETT : You did not even know the system. Mr R.F. JOHNSON : Mr Speaker — Withdrawal of Remark The SPEAKER : Take a seat, Premier; take a seat, Leader of the House. Member for Cannington, I request that you withdraw that comment. Mr W.J. JOHNSTON : I withdraw. Questions without Notice Resumed Mr C.J. BARNETT : Members opposite hurled accusations across the chamber. I will remember what the member for Joondalup said in particular. Mr W.J. Johnston : What did he say? Mr C.J. BARNETT : I will remember. Mr W.J. Johnston : What did he say? The SPEAKER : Member for Cannington! Mr C.J. BARNETT : I also recall very distinctly the member for Rockingham accusing Hon Robyn McSweeney of heavying—that was his expression — Mr M. McGowan : Yes. Mr C.J. BARNETT : — Michelle Stubbs. Mr M. McGowan : That’s what her letter says. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Jumping to conclusions and jumping to assertions. Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Maybe the member should listen for a little while. Hon Robyn McSweeney has professional experience, and years of experience, in dealing with children who have been abused. At least respect that. She is a professional in the area and has years of experience. Mrs M.H. Roberts : That’s why she should have known better, isn’t it? Mr C.J. BARNETT : Why do you not listen for a moment? Members opposite do not treat this seriously. Mrs M.H. Roberts : You don’t. The SPEAKER : Member for Midland, I formally call you to order for the first time today. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I just remind the house that Hon Robyn McSweeney has had years of experience in dealing with abused children. If anyone in this Parliament is sensitive to that situation, it would be her. If anyone has years of personal and professional experience in the area, it would be her—it would be Hon Robyn McSweeney—yet members opposite, and in particular the member for Rockingham, without any true knowledge of the situation, accused Hon Robyn McSweeney of ringing Michelle Stubbs and heavying her. They were the words that the member for Rockingham used. Mr M. McGowan : They were. Mr C.J. BARNETT : So I have taken the trouble, my office has taken the trouble, of being in contact with Hon Robyn McSweeney, and members opposite might be interested in the truth. “Don’t let the truth get in the way” is the Labor paradigm. But members opposite might be interested this time. Mr E.S. Ripper : I am interested. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Okay; well, why don’t you listen? I will tell you what happened. On the day — Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I will tell you what happened. On the day the announcement was made to reduce the maximum payment from $80 000 to $45 000, and the other changes that I have just outlined, Michelle Stubbs—Michelle Stubbs is a good person; I know her reasonably well—was appointed by Hon Robyn McSweeney — Mrs M.H. Roberts : Now you’re saying she’s a liar. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I have never, Mr Speaker, accused Michelle Stubbs of lying—ever—have I? I actually regard her as a friend. Never ever have I said that. You should withdraw and apologise. The SPEAKER : We have been through some of this this morning and some of you know where you are with it at this point. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I know Michelle Stubbs reasonably well. I have a great deal of respect and admiration for her. I like her as a person, and I fully recognise the incredible hardship that she suffered. No-one should doubt that, and certainly not people who know Michelle. Michelle Stubbs was appointed to the Ministerial Advisory Council on Child Protection by Hon Robyn McSweeney. They obviously had many conversations, including conversations about the Redress scheme and the like. On the day in July 2009 when the minister announced that the maximum payment would be reduced from $80 000 to $45 000 and the other changes which were outlined by the Attorney General this morning and which I have just repeated, Michelle Stubbs rang Hon Robyn McSweeney. She made contact with Hon Robyn McSweeney’s office and left a message. Hon Robyn McSweeney, the minister, dutifully returned that call and they had a lengthy conversation. Understandably, Michelle Stubbs was upset, she was emotional, and the conversation went on for some time. They know each other well. It was Michelle Stubbs who rang the minister to discuss the issue. She was on the advisory council; she knew what was going on. So to come in here and accuse, as the member for Rockingham did — Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : No, you have to be big enough and man enough to take it now. This is a test of all of you now. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the first time today. Member for Kwinana, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Leader of the Opposition, do you have a supplementary question? Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I am still — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen, I am formally going to call you to order for the first time today. You have a bit to make up, member for Girrawheen. Mr P.C. Tinley interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Willagee, just for the form, I call you to order as well. Mr C.J. BARNETT : It was Michelle Stubbs who called the minister’s office to try to persuade the minister to not reduce the maximum payment. That is clear from her letter today. The minister returned her call, later in the day, and they had a quite lengthy conversation. As I understand it, they talked about the scheme. Point number one: Michelle Stubbs contacted the minister, not the other way around. Point number two: I hope that the member for Rockingham is man enough to apologise, because Hon Robyn McSweeney did not ring Michelle Stubbs to “heavy” her, which he accused her of in this Parliament and which is on the record of this Parliament. I hope he is man enough to apologise to the minister; if not in here, when he sees her in the building. Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : The final point—by way of interjection!—is that Robyn McSweeney said, in the context of a lengthy conversation in which Michelle was extremely emotional, and understandably so, that she did use words along the lines of “let it go through to the keeper”, but that is very different from the accusation that the member for Rockingham made; namely, that the minister got on the phone and “heavied” her. The other accusation made by — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Willagee, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Midland, I formally call you to order for the second time today. I am not particularly interested in being continually on my feet formally calling members to order. It is not something that I want to do on a daily basis, let alone on a minute-by-minute basis! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I will conclude. The question had an implied accusation from the Leader of the Opposition that I and my office had in some way encouraged or got Robyn McSweeney to ring up Michelle Stubbs and “heavy” her. That was the tone of the question. I will tell the Leader of the Opposition that he might do that, the Labor Party might do that, but I do not!
Mr M. McGowan : You said all that this morning. Mr C.J. BARNETT : And what did the member say this morning? I will tell the member for Rockingham what he said this morning. What he — Mr W.J. Johnston : What is the answer to the question? Instead of coming in here and telling lies — The SPEAKER : Member for Cannington! Mr C.J. BARNETT : You did not even know the system. Mr R.F. JOHNSON : Mr Speaker — Withdrawal of Remark The SPEAKER : Take a seat, Premier; take a seat, Leader of the House. Member for Cannington, I request that you withdraw that comment. Mr W.J. JOHNSTON : I withdraw. Questions without Notice Resumed Mr C.J. BARNETT : Members opposite hurled accusations across the chamber. I will remember what the member for Joondalup said in particular. Mr W.J. Johnston : What did he say? Mr C.J. BARNETT : I will remember. Mr W.J. Johnston : What did he say? The SPEAKER : Member for Cannington! Mr C.J. BARNETT : I also recall very distinctly the member for Rockingham accusing Hon Robyn McSweeney of heavying—that was his expression — Mr M. McGowan : Yes. Mr C.J. BARNETT : — Michelle Stubbs. Mr M. McGowan : That’s what her letter says. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Jumping to conclusions and jumping to assertions. Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Maybe the member should listen for a little while. Hon Robyn McSweeney has professional experience, and years of experience, in dealing with children who have been abused. At least respect that. She is a professional in the area and has years of experience. Mrs M.H. Roberts : That’s why she should have known better, isn’t it? Mr C.J. BARNETT : Why do you not listen for a moment? Members opposite do not treat this seriously. Mrs M.H. Roberts : You don’t. The SPEAKER : Member for Midland, I formally call you to order for the first time today. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I just remind the house that Hon Robyn McSweeney has had years of experience in dealing with abused children. If anyone in this Parliament is sensitive to that situation, it would be her. If anyone has years of personal and professional experience in the area, it would be her—it would be Hon Robyn McSweeney—yet members opposite, and in particular the member for Rockingham, without any true knowledge of the situation, accused Hon Robyn McSweeney of ringing Michelle Stubbs and heavying her. They were the words that the member for Rockingham used. Mr M. McGowan : They were. Mr C.J. BARNETT : So I have taken the trouble, my office has taken the trouble, of being in contact with Hon Robyn McSweeney, and members opposite might be interested in the truth. “Don’t let the truth get in the way” is the Labor paradigm. But members opposite might be interested this time. Mr E.S. Ripper : I am interested. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Okay; well, why don’t you listen? I will tell you what happened. On the day — Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I will tell you what happened. On the day the announcement was made to reduce the maximum payment from $80 000 to $45 000, and the other changes that I have just outlined, Michelle Stubbs—Michelle Stubbs is a good person; I know her reasonably well—was appointed by Hon Robyn McSweeney — Mrs M.H. Roberts : Now you’re saying she’s a liar. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I have never, Mr Speaker, accused Michelle Stubbs of lying—ever—have I? I actually regard her as a friend. Never ever have I said that. You should withdraw and apologise. The SPEAKER : We have been through some of this this morning and some of you know where you are with it at this point. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I know Michelle Stubbs reasonably well. I have a great deal of respect and admiration for her. I like her as a person, and I fully recognise the incredible hardship that she suffered. No-one should doubt that, and certainly not people who know Michelle. Michelle Stubbs was appointed to the Ministerial Advisory Council on Child Protection by Hon Robyn McSweeney. They obviously had many conversations, including conversations about the Redress scheme and the like. On the day in July 2009 when the minister announced that the maximum payment would be reduced from $80 000 to $45 000 and the other changes which were outlined by the Attorney General this morning and which I have just repeated, Michelle Stubbs rang Hon Robyn McSweeney. She made contact with Hon Robyn McSweeney’s office and left a message. Hon Robyn McSweeney, the minister, dutifully returned that call and they had a lengthy conversation. Understandably, Michelle Stubbs was upset, she was emotional, and the conversation went on for some time. They know each other well. It was Michelle Stubbs who rang the minister to discuss the issue. She was on the advisory council; she knew what was going on. So to come in here and accuse, as the member for Rockingham did — Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : No, you have to be big enough and man enough to take it now. This is a test of all of you now. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the first time today. Member for Kwinana, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Leader of the Opposition, do you have a supplementary question? Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I am still — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen, I am formally going to call you to order for the first time today. You have a bit to make up, member for Girrawheen. Mr P.C. Tinley interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Willagee, just for the form, I call you to order as well. Mr C.J. BARNETT : It was Michelle Stubbs who called the minister’s office to try to persuade the minister to not reduce the maximum payment. That is clear from her letter today. The minister returned her call, later in the day, and they had a quite lengthy conversation. As I understand it, they talked about the scheme. Point number one: Michelle Stubbs contacted the minister, not the other way around. Point number two: I hope that the member for Rockingham is man enough to apologise, because Hon Robyn McSweeney did not ring Michelle Stubbs to “heavy” her, which he accused her of in this Parliament and which is on the record of this Parliament. I hope he is man enough to apologise to the minister; if not in here, when he sees her in the building. Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : The final point—by way of interjection!—is that Robyn McSweeney said, in the context of a lengthy conversation in which Michelle was extremely emotional, and understandably so, that she did use words along the lines of “let it go through to the keeper”, but that is very different from the accusation that the member for Rockingham made; namely, that the minister got on the phone and “heavied” her. The other accusation made by — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Willagee, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Midland, I formally call you to order for the second time today. I am not particularly interested in being continually on my feet formally calling members to order. It is not something that I want to do on a daily basis, let alone on a minute-by-minute basis! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I will conclude. The question had an implied accusation from the Leader of the Opposition that I and my office had in some way encouraged or got Robyn McSweeney to ring up Michelle Stubbs and “heavy” her. That was the tone of the question. I will tell the Leader of the Opposition that he might do that, the Labor Party might do that, but I do not!
Mr C.J. BARNETT : And what did the member say this morning? I will tell the member for Rockingham what he said this morning. What he — Mr W.J. Johnston : What is the answer to the question? Instead of coming in here and telling lies — The SPEAKER : Member for Cannington! Mr C.J. BARNETT : You did not even know the system. Mr R.F. JOHNSON : Mr Speaker — Withdrawal of Remark The SPEAKER : Take a seat, Premier; take a seat, Leader of the House. Member for Cannington, I request that you withdraw that comment. Mr W.J. JOHNSTON : I withdraw. Questions without Notice Resumed Mr C.J. BARNETT : Members opposite hurled accusations across the chamber. I will remember what the member for Joondalup said in particular. Mr W.J. Johnston : What did he say? Mr C.J. BARNETT : I will remember. Mr W.J. Johnston : What did he say? The SPEAKER : Member for Cannington! Mr C.J. BARNETT : I also recall very distinctly the member for Rockingham accusing Hon Robyn McSweeney of heavying—that was his expression — Mr M. McGowan : Yes. Mr C.J. BARNETT : — Michelle Stubbs. Mr M. McGowan : That’s what her letter says. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Jumping to conclusions and jumping to assertions. Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Maybe the member should listen for a little while. Hon Robyn McSweeney has professional experience, and years of experience, in dealing with children who have been abused. At least respect that. She is a professional in the area and has years of experience. Mrs M.H. Roberts : That’s why she should have known better, isn’t it? Mr C.J. BARNETT : Why do you not listen for a moment? Members opposite do not treat this seriously. Mrs M.H. Roberts : You don’t. The SPEAKER : Member for Midland, I formally call you to order for the first time today. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I just remind the house that Hon Robyn McSweeney has had years of experience in dealing with abused children. If anyone in this Parliament is sensitive to that situation, it would be her. If anyone has years of personal and professional experience in the area, it would be her—it would be Hon Robyn McSweeney—yet members opposite, and in particular the member for Rockingham, without any true knowledge of the situation, accused Hon Robyn McSweeney of ringing Michelle Stubbs and heavying her. They were the words that the member for Rockingham used. Mr M. McGowan : They were. Mr C.J. BARNETT : So I have taken the trouble, my office has taken the trouble, of being in contact with Hon Robyn McSweeney, and members opposite might be interested in the truth. “Don’t let the truth get in the way” is the Labor paradigm. But members opposite might be interested this time. Mr E.S. Ripper : I am interested. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Okay; well, why don’t you listen? I will tell you what happened. On the day — Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I will tell you what happened. On the day the announcement was made to reduce the maximum payment from $80 000 to $45 000, and the other changes that I have just outlined, Michelle Stubbs—Michelle Stubbs is a good person; I know her reasonably well—was appointed by Hon Robyn McSweeney — Mrs M.H. Roberts : Now you’re saying she’s a liar. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I have never, Mr Speaker, accused Michelle Stubbs of lying—ever—have I? I actually regard her as a friend. Never ever have I said that. You should withdraw and apologise. The SPEAKER : We have been through some of this this morning and some of you know where you are with it at this point. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I know Michelle Stubbs reasonably well. I have a great deal of respect and admiration for her. I like her as a person, and I fully recognise the incredible hardship that she suffered. No-one should doubt that, and certainly not people who know Michelle. Michelle Stubbs was appointed to the Ministerial Advisory Council on Child Protection by Hon Robyn McSweeney. They obviously had many conversations, including conversations about the Redress scheme and the like. On the day in July 2009 when the minister announced that the maximum payment would be reduced from $80 000 to $45 000 and the other changes which were outlined by the Attorney General this morning and which I have just repeated, Michelle Stubbs rang Hon Robyn McSweeney. She made contact with Hon Robyn McSweeney’s office and left a message. Hon Robyn McSweeney, the minister, dutifully returned that call and they had a lengthy conversation. Understandably, Michelle Stubbs was upset, she was emotional, and the conversation went on for some time. They know each other well. It was Michelle Stubbs who rang the minister to discuss the issue. She was on the advisory council; she knew what was going on. So to come in here and accuse, as the member for Rockingham did — Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : No, you have to be big enough and man enough to take it now. This is a test of all of you now. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the first time today. Member for Kwinana, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Leader of the Opposition, do you have a supplementary question? Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I am still — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen, I am formally going to call you to order for the first time today. You have a bit to make up, member for Girrawheen. Mr P.C. Tinley interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Willagee, just for the form, I call you to order as well. Mr C.J. BARNETT : It was Michelle Stubbs who called the minister’s office to try to persuade the minister to not reduce the maximum payment. That is clear from her letter today. The minister returned her call, later in the day, and they had a quite lengthy conversation. As I understand it, they talked about the scheme. Point number one: Michelle Stubbs contacted the minister, not the other way around. Point number two: I hope that the member for Rockingham is man enough to apologise, because Hon Robyn McSweeney did not ring Michelle Stubbs to “heavy” her, which he accused her of in this Parliament and which is on the record of this Parliament. I hope he is man enough to apologise to the minister; if not in here, when he sees her in the building. Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : The final point—by way of interjection!—is that Robyn McSweeney said, in the context of a lengthy conversation in which Michelle was extremely emotional, and understandably so, that she did use words along the lines of “let it go through to the keeper”, but that is very different from the accusation that the member for Rockingham made; namely, that the minister got on the phone and “heavied” her. The other accusation made by — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Willagee, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Midland, I formally call you to order for the second time today. I am not particularly interested in being continually on my feet formally calling members to order. It is not something that I want to do on a daily basis, let alone on a minute-by-minute basis! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I will conclude. The question had an implied accusation from the Leader of the Opposition that I and my office had in some way encouraged or got Robyn McSweeney to ring up Michelle Stubbs and “heavy” her. That was the tone of the question. I will tell the Leader of the Opposition that he might do that, the Labor Party might do that, but I do not!
Mr W.J. Johnston : What is the answer to the question? Instead of coming in here and telling lies — The SPEAKER : Member for Cannington! Mr C.J. BARNETT : You did not even know the system. Mr R.F. JOHNSON : Mr Speaker — Withdrawal of Remark The SPEAKER : Take a seat, Premier; take a seat, Leader of the House. Member for Cannington, I request that you withdraw that comment. Mr W.J. JOHNSTON : I withdraw. Questions without Notice Resumed Mr C.J. BARNETT : Members opposite hurled accusations across the chamber. I will remember what the member for Joondalup said in particular. Mr W.J. Johnston : What did he say? Mr C.J. BARNETT : I will remember. Mr W.J. Johnston : What did he say? The SPEAKER : Member for Cannington! Mr C.J. BARNETT : I also recall very distinctly the member for Rockingham accusing Hon Robyn McSweeney of heavying—that was his expression — Mr M. McGowan : Yes. Mr C.J. BARNETT : — Michelle Stubbs. Mr M. McGowan : That’s what her letter says. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Jumping to conclusions and jumping to assertions. Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Maybe the member should listen for a little while. Hon Robyn McSweeney has professional experience, and years of experience, in dealing with children who have been abused. At least respect that. She is a professional in the area and has years of experience. Mrs M.H. Roberts : That’s why she should have known better, isn’t it? Mr C.J. BARNETT : Why do you not listen for a moment? Members opposite do not treat this seriously. Mrs M.H. Roberts : You don’t. The SPEAKER : Member for Midland, I formally call you to order for the first time today. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I just remind the house that Hon Robyn McSweeney has had years of experience in dealing with abused children. If anyone in this Parliament is sensitive to that situation, it would be her. If anyone has years of personal and professional experience in the area, it would be her—it would be Hon Robyn McSweeney—yet members opposite, and in particular the member for Rockingham, without any true knowledge of the situation, accused Hon Robyn McSweeney of ringing Michelle Stubbs and heavying her. They were the words that the member for Rockingham used. Mr M. McGowan : They were. Mr C.J. BARNETT : So I have taken the trouble, my office has taken the trouble, of being in contact with Hon Robyn McSweeney, and members opposite might be interested in the truth. “Don’t let the truth get in the way” is the Labor paradigm. But members opposite might be interested this time. Mr E.S. Ripper : I am interested. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Okay; well, why don’t you listen? I will tell you what happened. On the day — Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I will tell you what happened. On the day the announcement was made to reduce the maximum payment from $80 000 to $45 000, and the other changes that I have just outlined, Michelle Stubbs—Michelle Stubbs is a good person; I know her reasonably well—was appointed by Hon Robyn McSweeney — Mrs M.H. Roberts : Now you’re saying she’s a liar. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I have never, Mr Speaker, accused Michelle Stubbs of lying—ever—have I? I actually regard her as a friend. Never ever have I said that. You should withdraw and apologise. The SPEAKER : We have been through some of this this morning and some of you know where you are with it at this point. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I know Michelle Stubbs reasonably well. I have a great deal of respect and admiration for her. I like her as a person, and I fully recognise the incredible hardship that she suffered. No-one should doubt that, and certainly not people who know Michelle. Michelle Stubbs was appointed to the Ministerial Advisory Council on Child Protection by Hon Robyn McSweeney. They obviously had many conversations, including conversations about the Redress scheme and the like. On the day in July 2009 when the minister announced that the maximum payment would be reduced from $80 000 to $45 000 and the other changes which were outlined by the Attorney General this morning and which I have just repeated, Michelle Stubbs rang Hon Robyn McSweeney. She made contact with Hon Robyn McSweeney’s office and left a message. Hon Robyn McSweeney, the minister, dutifully returned that call and they had a lengthy conversation. Understandably, Michelle Stubbs was upset, she was emotional, and the conversation went on for some time. They know each other well. It was Michelle Stubbs who rang the minister to discuss the issue. She was on the advisory council; she knew what was going on. So to come in here and accuse, as the member for Rockingham did — Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : No, you have to be big enough and man enough to take it now. This is a test of all of you now. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the first time today. Member for Kwinana, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Leader of the Opposition, do you have a supplementary question? Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I am still — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen, I am formally going to call you to order for the first time today. You have a bit to make up, member for Girrawheen. Mr P.C. Tinley interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Willagee, just for the form, I call you to order as well. Mr C.J. BARNETT : It was Michelle Stubbs who called the minister’s office to try to persuade the minister to not reduce the maximum payment. That is clear from her letter today. The minister returned her call, later in the day, and they had a quite lengthy conversation. As I understand it, they talked about the scheme. Point number one: Michelle Stubbs contacted the minister, not the other way around. Point number two: I hope that the member for Rockingham is man enough to apologise, because Hon Robyn McSweeney did not ring Michelle Stubbs to “heavy” her, which he accused her of in this Parliament and which is on the record of this Parliament. I hope he is man enough to apologise to the minister; if not in here, when he sees her in the building. Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : The final point—by way of interjection!—is that Robyn McSweeney said, in the context of a lengthy conversation in which Michelle was extremely emotional, and understandably so, that she did use words along the lines of “let it go through to the keeper”, but that is very different from the accusation that the member for Rockingham made; namely, that the minister got on the phone and “heavied” her. The other accusation made by — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Willagee, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Midland, I formally call you to order for the second time today. I am not particularly interested in being continually on my feet formally calling members to order. It is not something that I want to do on a daily basis, let alone on a minute-by-minute basis! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I will conclude. The question had an implied accusation from the Leader of the Opposition that I and my office had in some way encouraged or got Robyn McSweeney to ring up Michelle Stubbs and “heavy” her. That was the tone of the question. I will tell the Leader of the Opposition that he might do that, the Labor Party might do that, but I do not!
The SPEAKER : Member for Cannington! Mr C.J. BARNETT : You did not even know the system. Mr R.F. JOHNSON : Mr Speaker — Withdrawal of Remark The SPEAKER : Take a seat, Premier; take a seat, Leader of the House. Member for Cannington, I request that you withdraw that comment. Mr W.J. JOHNSTON : I withdraw. Questions without Notice Resumed Mr C.J. BARNETT : Members opposite hurled accusations across the chamber. I will remember what the member for Joondalup said in particular. Mr W.J. Johnston : What did he say? Mr C.J. BARNETT : I will remember. Mr W.J. Johnston : What did he say? The SPEAKER : Member for Cannington! Mr C.J. BARNETT : I also recall very distinctly the member for Rockingham accusing Hon Robyn McSweeney of heavying—that was his expression — Mr M. McGowan : Yes. Mr C.J. BARNETT : — Michelle Stubbs. Mr M. McGowan : That’s what her letter says. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Jumping to conclusions and jumping to assertions. Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Maybe the member should listen for a little while. Hon Robyn McSweeney has professional experience, and years of experience, in dealing with children who have been abused. At least respect that. She is a professional in the area and has years of experience. Mrs M.H. Roberts : That’s why she should have known better, isn’t it? Mr C.J. BARNETT : Why do you not listen for a moment? Members opposite do not treat this seriously. Mrs M.H. Roberts : You don’t. The SPEAKER : Member for Midland, I formally call you to order for the first time today. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I just remind the house that Hon Robyn McSweeney has had years of experience in dealing with abused children. If anyone in this Parliament is sensitive to that situation, it would be her. If anyone has years of personal and professional experience in the area, it would be her—it would be Hon Robyn McSweeney—yet members opposite, and in particular the member for Rockingham, without any true knowledge of the situation, accused Hon Robyn McSweeney of ringing Michelle Stubbs and heavying her. They were the words that the member for Rockingham used. Mr M. McGowan : They were. Mr C.J. BARNETT : So I have taken the trouble, my office has taken the trouble, of being in contact with Hon Robyn McSweeney, and members opposite might be interested in the truth. “Don’t let the truth get in the way” is the Labor paradigm. But members opposite might be interested this time. Mr E.S. Ripper : I am interested. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Okay; well, why don’t you listen? I will tell you what happened. On the day — Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I will tell you what happened. On the day the announcement was made to reduce the maximum payment from $80 000 to $45 000, and the other changes that I have just outlined, Michelle Stubbs—Michelle Stubbs is a good person; I know her reasonably well—was appointed by Hon Robyn McSweeney — Mrs M.H. Roberts : Now you’re saying she’s a liar. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I have never, Mr Speaker, accused Michelle Stubbs of lying—ever—have I? I actually regard her as a friend. Never ever have I said that. You should withdraw and apologise. The SPEAKER : We have been through some of this this morning and some of you know where you are with it at this point. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I know Michelle Stubbs reasonably well. I have a great deal of respect and admiration for her. I like her as a person, and I fully recognise the incredible hardship that she suffered. No-one should doubt that, and certainly not people who know Michelle. Michelle Stubbs was appointed to the Ministerial Advisory Council on Child Protection by Hon Robyn McSweeney. They obviously had many conversations, including conversations about the Redress scheme and the like. On the day in July 2009 when the minister announced that the maximum payment would be reduced from $80 000 to $45 000 and the other changes which were outlined by the Attorney General this morning and which I have just repeated, Michelle Stubbs rang Hon Robyn McSweeney. She made contact with Hon Robyn McSweeney’s office and left a message. Hon Robyn McSweeney, the minister, dutifully returned that call and they had a lengthy conversation. Understandably, Michelle Stubbs was upset, she was emotional, and the conversation went on for some time. They know each other well. It was Michelle Stubbs who rang the minister to discuss the issue. She was on the advisory council; she knew what was going on. So to come in here and accuse, as the member for Rockingham did — Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : No, you have to be big enough and man enough to take it now. This is a test of all of you now. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the first time today. Member for Kwinana, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Leader of the Opposition, do you have a supplementary question? Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I am still — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen, I am formally going to call you to order for the first time today. You have a bit to make up, member for Girrawheen. Mr P.C. Tinley interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Willagee, just for the form, I call you to order as well. Mr C.J. BARNETT : It was Michelle Stubbs who called the minister’s office to try to persuade the minister to not reduce the maximum payment. That is clear from her letter today. The minister returned her call, later in the day, and they had a quite lengthy conversation. As I understand it, they talked about the scheme. Point number one: Michelle Stubbs contacted the minister, not the other way around. Point number two: I hope that the member for Rockingham is man enough to apologise, because Hon Robyn McSweeney did not ring Michelle Stubbs to “heavy” her, which he accused her of in this Parliament and which is on the record of this Parliament. I hope he is man enough to apologise to the minister; if not in here, when he sees her in the building. Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : The final point—by way of interjection!—is that Robyn McSweeney said, in the context of a lengthy conversation in which Michelle was extremely emotional, and understandably so, that she did use words along the lines of “let it go through to the keeper”, but that is very different from the accusation that the member for Rockingham made; namely, that the minister got on the phone and “heavied” her. The other accusation made by — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Willagee, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Midland, I formally call you to order for the second time today. I am not particularly interested in being continually on my feet formally calling members to order. It is not something that I want to do on a daily basis, let alone on a minute-by-minute basis! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I will conclude. The question had an implied accusation from the Leader of the Opposition that I and my office had in some way encouraged or got Robyn McSweeney to ring up Michelle Stubbs and “heavy” her. That was the tone of the question. I will tell the Leader of the Opposition that he might do that, the Labor Party might do that, but I do not!
Mr C.J. BARNETT : You did not even know the system. Mr R.F. JOHNSON : Mr Speaker — Withdrawal of Remark The SPEAKER : Take a seat, Premier; take a seat, Leader of the House. Member for Cannington, I request that you withdraw that comment. Mr W.J. JOHNSTON : I withdraw. Questions without Notice Resumed Mr C.J. BARNETT : Members opposite hurled accusations across the chamber. I will remember what the member for Joondalup said in particular. Mr W.J. Johnston : What did he say? Mr C.J. BARNETT : I will remember. Mr W.J. Johnston : What did he say? The SPEAKER : Member for Cannington! Mr C.J. BARNETT : I also recall very distinctly the member for Rockingham accusing Hon Robyn McSweeney of heavying—that was his expression — Mr M. McGowan : Yes. Mr C.J. BARNETT : — Michelle Stubbs. Mr M. McGowan : That’s what her letter says. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Jumping to conclusions and jumping to assertions. Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Maybe the member should listen for a little while. Hon Robyn McSweeney has professional experience, and years of experience, in dealing with children who have been abused. At least respect that. She is a professional in the area and has years of experience. Mrs M.H. Roberts : That’s why she should have known better, isn’t it? Mr C.J. BARNETT : Why do you not listen for a moment? Members opposite do not treat this seriously. Mrs M.H. Roberts : You don’t. The SPEAKER : Member for Midland, I formally call you to order for the first time today. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I just remind the house that Hon Robyn McSweeney has had years of experience in dealing with abused children. If anyone in this Parliament is sensitive to that situation, it would be her. If anyone has years of personal and professional experience in the area, it would be her—it would be Hon Robyn McSweeney—yet members opposite, and in particular the member for Rockingham, without any true knowledge of the situation, accused Hon Robyn McSweeney of ringing Michelle Stubbs and heavying her. They were the words that the member for Rockingham used. Mr M. McGowan : They were. Mr C.J. BARNETT : So I have taken the trouble, my office has taken the trouble, of being in contact with Hon Robyn McSweeney, and members opposite might be interested in the truth. “Don’t let the truth get in the way” is the Labor paradigm. But members opposite might be interested this time. Mr E.S. Ripper : I am interested. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Okay; well, why don’t you listen? I will tell you what happened. On the day — Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I will tell you what happened. On the day the announcement was made to reduce the maximum payment from $80 000 to $45 000, and the other changes that I have just outlined, Michelle Stubbs—Michelle Stubbs is a good person; I know her reasonably well—was appointed by Hon Robyn McSweeney — Mrs M.H. Roberts : Now you’re saying she’s a liar. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I have never, Mr Speaker, accused Michelle Stubbs of lying—ever—have I? I actually regard her as a friend. Never ever have I said that. You should withdraw and apologise. The SPEAKER : We have been through some of this this morning and some of you know where you are with it at this point. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I know Michelle Stubbs reasonably well. I have a great deal of respect and admiration for her. I like her as a person, and I fully recognise the incredible hardship that she suffered. No-one should doubt that, and certainly not people who know Michelle. Michelle Stubbs was appointed to the Ministerial Advisory Council on Child Protection by Hon Robyn McSweeney. They obviously had many conversations, including conversations about the Redress scheme and the like. On the day in July 2009 when the minister announced that the maximum payment would be reduced from $80 000 to $45 000 and the other changes which were outlined by the Attorney General this morning and which I have just repeated, Michelle Stubbs rang Hon Robyn McSweeney. She made contact with Hon Robyn McSweeney’s office and left a message. Hon Robyn McSweeney, the minister, dutifully returned that call and they had a lengthy conversation. Understandably, Michelle Stubbs was upset, she was emotional, and the conversation went on for some time. They know each other well. It was Michelle Stubbs who rang the minister to discuss the issue. She was on the advisory council; she knew what was going on. So to come in here and accuse, as the member for Rockingham did — Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : No, you have to be big enough and man enough to take it now. This is a test of all of you now. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the first time today. Member for Kwinana, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Leader of the Opposition, do you have a supplementary question? Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I am still — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen, I am formally going to call you to order for the first time today. You have a bit to make up, member for Girrawheen. Mr P.C. Tinley interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Willagee, just for the form, I call you to order as well. Mr C.J. BARNETT : It was Michelle Stubbs who called the minister’s office to try to persuade the minister to not reduce the maximum payment. That is clear from her letter today. The minister returned her call, later in the day, and they had a quite lengthy conversation. As I understand it, they talked about the scheme. Point number one: Michelle Stubbs contacted the minister, not the other way around. Point number two: I hope that the member for Rockingham is man enough to apologise, because Hon Robyn McSweeney did not ring Michelle Stubbs to “heavy” her, which he accused her of in this Parliament and which is on the record of this Parliament. I hope he is man enough to apologise to the minister; if not in here, when he sees her in the building. Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : The final point—by way of interjection!—is that Robyn McSweeney said, in the context of a lengthy conversation in which Michelle was extremely emotional, and understandably so, that she did use words along the lines of “let it go through to the keeper”, but that is very different from the accusation that the member for Rockingham made; namely, that the minister got on the phone and “heavied” her. The other accusation made by — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Willagee, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Midland, I formally call you to order for the second time today. I am not particularly interested in being continually on my feet formally calling members to order. It is not something that I want to do on a daily basis, let alone on a minute-by-minute basis! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I will conclude. The question had an implied accusation from the Leader of the Opposition that I and my office had in some way encouraged or got Robyn McSweeney to ring up Michelle Stubbs and “heavy” her. That was the tone of the question. I will tell the Leader of the Opposition that he might do that, the Labor Party might do that, but I do not!
Mr R.F. JOHNSON : Mr Speaker — Withdrawal of Remark The SPEAKER : Take a seat, Premier; take a seat, Leader of the House. Member for Cannington, I request that you withdraw that comment. Mr W.J. JOHNSTON : I withdraw. Questions without Notice Resumed Mr C.J. BARNETT : Members opposite hurled accusations across the chamber. I will remember what the member for Joondalup said in particular. Mr W.J. Johnston : What did he say? Mr C.J. BARNETT : I will remember. Mr W.J. Johnston : What did he say? The SPEAKER : Member for Cannington! Mr C.J. BARNETT : I also recall very distinctly the member for Rockingham accusing Hon Robyn McSweeney of heavying—that was his expression — Mr M. McGowan : Yes. Mr C.J. BARNETT : — Michelle Stubbs. Mr M. McGowan : That’s what her letter says. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Jumping to conclusions and jumping to assertions. Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Maybe the member should listen for a little while. Hon Robyn McSweeney has professional experience, and years of experience, in dealing with children who have been abused. At least respect that. She is a professional in the area and has years of experience. Mrs M.H. Roberts : That’s why she should have known better, isn’t it? Mr C.J. BARNETT : Why do you not listen for a moment? Members opposite do not treat this seriously. Mrs M.H. Roberts : You don’t. The SPEAKER : Member for Midland, I formally call you to order for the first time today. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I just remind the house that Hon Robyn McSweeney has had years of experience in dealing with abused children. If anyone in this Parliament is sensitive to that situation, it would be her. If anyone has years of personal and professional experience in the area, it would be her—it would be Hon Robyn McSweeney—yet members opposite, and in particular the member for Rockingham, without any true knowledge of the situation, accused Hon Robyn McSweeney of ringing Michelle Stubbs and heavying her. They were the words that the member for Rockingham used. Mr M. McGowan : They were. Mr C.J. BARNETT : So I have taken the trouble, my office has taken the trouble, of being in contact with Hon Robyn McSweeney, and members opposite might be interested in the truth. “Don’t let the truth get in the way” is the Labor paradigm. But members opposite might be interested this time. Mr E.S. Ripper : I am interested. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Okay; well, why don’t you listen? I will tell you what happened. On the day — Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I will tell you what happened. On the day the announcement was made to reduce the maximum payment from $80 000 to $45 000, and the other changes that I have just outlined, Michelle Stubbs—Michelle Stubbs is a good person; I know her reasonably well—was appointed by Hon Robyn McSweeney — Mrs M.H. Roberts : Now you’re saying she’s a liar. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I have never, Mr Speaker, accused Michelle Stubbs of lying—ever—have I? I actually regard her as a friend. Never ever have I said that. You should withdraw and apologise. The SPEAKER : We have been through some of this this morning and some of you know where you are with it at this point. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I know Michelle Stubbs reasonably well. I have a great deal of respect and admiration for her. I like her as a person, and I fully recognise the incredible hardship that she suffered. No-one should doubt that, and certainly not people who know Michelle. Michelle Stubbs was appointed to the Ministerial Advisory Council on Child Protection by Hon Robyn McSweeney. They obviously had many conversations, including conversations about the Redress scheme and the like. On the day in July 2009 when the minister announced that the maximum payment would be reduced from $80 000 to $45 000 and the other changes which were outlined by the Attorney General this morning and which I have just repeated, Michelle Stubbs rang Hon Robyn McSweeney. She made contact with Hon Robyn McSweeney’s office and left a message. Hon Robyn McSweeney, the minister, dutifully returned that call and they had a lengthy conversation. Understandably, Michelle Stubbs was upset, she was emotional, and the conversation went on for some time. They know each other well. It was Michelle Stubbs who rang the minister to discuss the issue. She was on the advisory council; she knew what was going on. So to come in here and accuse, as the member for Rockingham did — Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : No, you have to be big enough and man enough to take it now. This is a test of all of you now. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the first time today. Member for Kwinana, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Leader of the Opposition, do you have a supplementary question? Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I am still — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen, I am formally going to call you to order for the first time today. You have a bit to make up, member for Girrawheen. Mr P.C. Tinley interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Willagee, just for the form, I call you to order as well. Mr C.J. BARNETT : It was Michelle Stubbs who called the minister’s office to try to persuade the minister to not reduce the maximum payment. That is clear from her letter today. The minister returned her call, later in the day, and they had a quite lengthy conversation. As I understand it, they talked about the scheme. Point number one: Michelle Stubbs contacted the minister, not the other way around. Point number two: I hope that the member for Rockingham is man enough to apologise, because Hon Robyn McSweeney did not ring Michelle Stubbs to “heavy” her, which he accused her of in this Parliament and which is on the record of this Parliament. I hope he is man enough to apologise to the minister; if not in here, when he sees her in the building. Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : The final point—by way of interjection!—is that Robyn McSweeney said, in the context of a lengthy conversation in which Michelle was extremely emotional, and understandably so, that she did use words along the lines of “let it go through to the keeper”, but that is very different from the accusation that the member for Rockingham made; namely, that the minister got on the phone and “heavied” her. The other accusation made by — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Willagee, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Midland, I formally call you to order for the second time today. I am not particularly interested in being continually on my feet formally calling members to order. It is not something that I want to do on a daily basis, let alone on a minute-by-minute basis! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I will conclude. The question had an implied accusation from the Leader of the Opposition that I and my office had in some way encouraged or got Robyn McSweeney to ring up Michelle Stubbs and “heavy” her. That was the tone of the question. I will tell the Leader of the Opposition that he might do that, the Labor Party might do that, but I do not!
Mr W.J. JOHNSTON : I withdraw. Questions without Notice Resumed Mr C.J. BARNETT : Members opposite hurled accusations across the chamber. I will remember what the member for Joondalup said in particular. Mr W.J. Johnston : What did he say? Mr C.J. BARNETT : I will remember. Mr W.J. Johnston : What did he say? The SPEAKER : Member for Cannington! Mr C.J. BARNETT : I also recall very distinctly the member for Rockingham accusing Hon Robyn McSweeney of heavying—that was his expression — Mr M. McGowan : Yes. Mr C.J. BARNETT : — Michelle Stubbs. Mr M. McGowan : That’s what her letter says. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Jumping to conclusions and jumping to assertions. Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Maybe the member should listen for a little while. Hon Robyn McSweeney has professional experience, and years of experience, in dealing with children who have been abused. At least respect that. She is a professional in the area and has years of experience. Mrs M.H. Roberts : That’s why she should have known better, isn’t it? Mr C.J. BARNETT : Why do you not listen for a moment? Members opposite do not treat this seriously. Mrs M.H. Roberts : You don’t. The SPEAKER : Member for Midland, I formally call you to order for the first time today. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I just remind the house that Hon Robyn McSweeney has had years of experience in dealing with abused children. If anyone in this Parliament is sensitive to that situation, it would be her. If anyone has years of personal and professional experience in the area, it would be her—it would be Hon Robyn McSweeney—yet members opposite, and in particular the member for Rockingham, without any true knowledge of the situation, accused Hon Robyn McSweeney of ringing Michelle Stubbs and heavying her. They were the words that the member for Rockingham used. Mr M. McGowan : They were. Mr C.J. BARNETT : So I have taken the trouble, my office has taken the trouble, of being in contact with Hon Robyn McSweeney, and members opposite might be interested in the truth. “Don’t let the truth get in the way” is the Labor paradigm. But members opposite might be interested this time. Mr E.S. Ripper : I am interested. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Okay; well, why don’t you listen? I will tell you what happened. On the day — Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I will tell you what happened. On the day the announcement was made to reduce the maximum payment from $80 000 to $45 000, and the other changes that I have just outlined, Michelle Stubbs—Michelle Stubbs is a good person; I know her reasonably well—was appointed by Hon Robyn McSweeney — Mrs M.H. Roberts : Now you’re saying she’s a liar. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I have never, Mr Speaker, accused Michelle Stubbs of lying—ever—have I? I actually regard her as a friend. Never ever have I said that. You should withdraw and apologise. The SPEAKER : We have been through some of this this morning and some of you know where you are with it at this point. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I know Michelle Stubbs reasonably well. I have a great deal of respect and admiration for her. I like her as a person, and I fully recognise the incredible hardship that she suffered. No-one should doubt that, and certainly not people who know Michelle. Michelle Stubbs was appointed to the Ministerial Advisory Council on Child Protection by Hon Robyn McSweeney. They obviously had many conversations, including conversations about the Redress scheme and the like. On the day in July 2009 when the minister announced that the maximum payment would be reduced from $80 000 to $45 000 and the other changes which were outlined by the Attorney General this morning and which I have just repeated, Michelle Stubbs rang Hon Robyn McSweeney. She made contact with Hon Robyn McSweeney’s office and left a message. Hon Robyn McSweeney, the minister, dutifully returned that call and they had a lengthy conversation. Understandably, Michelle Stubbs was upset, she was emotional, and the conversation went on for some time. They know each other well. It was Michelle Stubbs who rang the minister to discuss the issue. She was on the advisory council; she knew what was going on. So to come in here and accuse, as the member for Rockingham did — Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : No, you have to be big enough and man enough to take it now. This is a test of all of you now. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the first time today. Member for Kwinana, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Leader of the Opposition, do you have a supplementary question? Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I am still — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen, I am formally going to call you to order for the first time today. You have a bit to make up, member for Girrawheen. Mr P.C. Tinley interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Willagee, just for the form, I call you to order as well. Mr C.J. BARNETT : It was Michelle Stubbs who called the minister’s office to try to persuade the minister to not reduce the maximum payment. That is clear from her letter today. The minister returned her call, later in the day, and they had a quite lengthy conversation. As I understand it, they talked about the scheme. Point number one: Michelle Stubbs contacted the minister, not the other way around. Point number two: I hope that the member for Rockingham is man enough to apologise, because Hon Robyn McSweeney did not ring Michelle Stubbs to “heavy” her, which he accused her of in this Parliament and which is on the record of this Parliament. I hope he is man enough to apologise to the minister; if not in here, when he sees her in the building. Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : The final point—by way of interjection!—is that Robyn McSweeney said, in the context of a lengthy conversation in which Michelle was extremely emotional, and understandably so, that she did use words along the lines of “let it go through to the keeper”, but that is very different from the accusation that the member for Rockingham made; namely, that the minister got on the phone and “heavied” her. The other accusation made by — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Willagee, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Midland, I formally call you to order for the second time today. I am not particularly interested in being continually on my feet formally calling members to order. It is not something that I want to do on a daily basis, let alone on a minute-by-minute basis! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I will conclude. The question had an implied accusation from the Leader of the Opposition that I and my office had in some way encouraged or got Robyn McSweeney to ring up Michelle Stubbs and “heavy” her. That was the tone of the question. I will tell the Leader of the Opposition that he might do that, the Labor Party might do that, but I do not!
Mr W.J. Johnston : What did he say? Mr C.J. BARNETT : I will remember. Mr W.J. Johnston : What did he say? The SPEAKER : Member for Cannington! Mr C.J. BARNETT : I also recall very distinctly the member for Rockingham accusing Hon Robyn McSweeney of heavying—that was his expression — Mr M. McGowan : Yes. Mr C.J. BARNETT : — Michelle Stubbs. Mr M. McGowan : That’s what her letter says. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Jumping to conclusions and jumping to assertions. Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Maybe the member should listen for a little while. Hon Robyn McSweeney has professional experience, and years of experience, in dealing with children who have been abused. At least respect that. She is a professional in the area and has years of experience. Mrs M.H. Roberts : That’s why she should have known better, isn’t it? Mr C.J. BARNETT : Why do you not listen for a moment? Members opposite do not treat this seriously. Mrs M.H. Roberts : You don’t. The SPEAKER : Member for Midland, I formally call you to order for the first time today. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I just remind the house that Hon Robyn McSweeney has had years of experience in dealing with abused children. If anyone in this Parliament is sensitive to that situation, it would be her. If anyone has years of personal and professional experience in the area, it would be her—it would be Hon Robyn McSweeney—yet members opposite, and in particular the member for Rockingham, without any true knowledge of the situation, accused Hon Robyn McSweeney of ringing Michelle Stubbs and heavying her. They were the words that the member for Rockingham used. Mr M. McGowan : They were. Mr C.J. BARNETT : So I have taken the trouble, my office has taken the trouble, of being in contact with Hon Robyn McSweeney, and members opposite might be interested in the truth. “Don’t let the truth get in the way” is the Labor paradigm. But members opposite might be interested this time. Mr E.S. Ripper : I am interested. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Okay; well, why don’t you listen? I will tell you what happened. On the day — Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I will tell you what happened. On the day the announcement was made to reduce the maximum payment from $80 000 to $45 000, and the other changes that I have just outlined, Michelle Stubbs—Michelle Stubbs is a good person; I know her reasonably well—was appointed by Hon Robyn McSweeney — Mrs M.H. Roberts : Now you’re saying she’s a liar. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I have never, Mr Speaker, accused Michelle Stubbs of lying—ever—have I? I actually regard her as a friend. Never ever have I said that. You should withdraw and apologise. The SPEAKER : We have been through some of this this morning and some of you know where you are with it at this point. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I know Michelle Stubbs reasonably well. I have a great deal of respect and admiration for her. I like her as a person, and I fully recognise the incredible hardship that she suffered. No-one should doubt that, and certainly not people who know Michelle. Michelle Stubbs was appointed to the Ministerial Advisory Council on Child Protection by Hon Robyn McSweeney. They obviously had many conversations, including conversations about the Redress scheme and the like. On the day in July 2009 when the minister announced that the maximum payment would be reduced from $80 000 to $45 000 and the other changes which were outlined by the Attorney General this morning and which I have just repeated, Michelle Stubbs rang Hon Robyn McSweeney. She made contact with Hon Robyn McSweeney’s office and left a message. Hon Robyn McSweeney, the minister, dutifully returned that call and they had a lengthy conversation. Understandably, Michelle Stubbs was upset, she was emotional, and the conversation went on for some time. They know each other well. It was Michelle Stubbs who rang the minister to discuss the issue. She was on the advisory council; she knew what was going on. So to come in here and accuse, as the member for Rockingham did — Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : No, you have to be big enough and man enough to take it now. This is a test of all of you now. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the first time today. Member for Kwinana, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Leader of the Opposition, do you have a supplementary question? Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I am still — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen, I am formally going to call you to order for the first time today. You have a bit to make up, member for Girrawheen. Mr P.C. Tinley interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Willagee, just for the form, I call you to order as well. Mr C.J. BARNETT : It was Michelle Stubbs who called the minister’s office to try to persuade the minister to not reduce the maximum payment. That is clear from her letter today. The minister returned her call, later in the day, and they had a quite lengthy conversation. As I understand it, they talked about the scheme. Point number one: Michelle Stubbs contacted the minister, not the other way around. Point number two: I hope that the member for Rockingham is man enough to apologise, because Hon Robyn McSweeney did not ring Michelle Stubbs to “heavy” her, which he accused her of in this Parliament and which is on the record of this Parliament. I hope he is man enough to apologise to the minister; if not in here, when he sees her in the building. Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : The final point—by way of interjection!—is that Robyn McSweeney said, in the context of a lengthy conversation in which Michelle was extremely emotional, and understandably so, that she did use words along the lines of “let it go through to the keeper”, but that is very different from the accusation that the member for Rockingham made; namely, that the minister got on the phone and “heavied” her. The other accusation made by — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Willagee, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Midland, I formally call you to order for the second time today. I am not particularly interested in being continually on my feet formally calling members to order. It is not something that I want to do on a daily basis, let alone on a minute-by-minute basis! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I will conclude. The question had an implied accusation from the Leader of the Opposition that I and my office had in some way encouraged or got Robyn McSweeney to ring up Michelle Stubbs and “heavy” her. That was the tone of the question. I will tell the Leader of the Opposition that he might do that, the Labor Party might do that, but I do not!
Mr C.J. BARNETT : I will remember. Mr W.J. Johnston : What did he say? The SPEAKER : Member for Cannington! Mr C.J. BARNETT : I also recall very distinctly the member for Rockingham accusing Hon Robyn McSweeney of heavying—that was his expression — Mr M. McGowan : Yes. Mr C.J. BARNETT : — Michelle Stubbs. Mr M. McGowan : That’s what her letter says. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Jumping to conclusions and jumping to assertions. Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Maybe the member should listen for a little while. Hon Robyn McSweeney has professional experience, and years of experience, in dealing with children who have been abused. At least respect that. She is a professional in the area and has years of experience. Mrs M.H. Roberts : That’s why she should have known better, isn’t it? Mr C.J. BARNETT : Why do you not listen for a moment? Members opposite do not treat this seriously. Mrs M.H. Roberts : You don’t. The SPEAKER : Member for Midland, I formally call you to order for the first time today. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I just remind the house that Hon Robyn McSweeney has had years of experience in dealing with abused children. If anyone in this Parliament is sensitive to that situation, it would be her. If anyone has years of personal and professional experience in the area, it would be her—it would be Hon Robyn McSweeney—yet members opposite, and in particular the member for Rockingham, without any true knowledge of the situation, accused Hon Robyn McSweeney of ringing Michelle Stubbs and heavying her. They were the words that the member for Rockingham used. Mr M. McGowan : They were. Mr C.J. BARNETT : So I have taken the trouble, my office has taken the trouble, of being in contact with Hon Robyn McSweeney, and members opposite might be interested in the truth. “Don’t let the truth get in the way” is the Labor paradigm. But members opposite might be interested this time. Mr E.S. Ripper : I am interested. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Okay; well, why don’t you listen? I will tell you what happened. On the day — Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I will tell you what happened. On the day the announcement was made to reduce the maximum payment from $80 000 to $45 000, and the other changes that I have just outlined, Michelle Stubbs—Michelle Stubbs is a good person; I know her reasonably well—was appointed by Hon Robyn McSweeney — Mrs M.H. Roberts : Now you’re saying she’s a liar. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I have never, Mr Speaker, accused Michelle Stubbs of lying—ever—have I? I actually regard her as a friend. Never ever have I said that. You should withdraw and apologise. The SPEAKER : We have been through some of this this morning and some of you know where you are with it at this point. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I know Michelle Stubbs reasonably well. I have a great deal of respect and admiration for her. I like her as a person, and I fully recognise the incredible hardship that she suffered. No-one should doubt that, and certainly not people who know Michelle. Michelle Stubbs was appointed to the Ministerial Advisory Council on Child Protection by Hon Robyn McSweeney. They obviously had many conversations, including conversations about the Redress scheme and the like. On the day in July 2009 when the minister announced that the maximum payment would be reduced from $80 000 to $45 000 and the other changes which were outlined by the Attorney General this morning and which I have just repeated, Michelle Stubbs rang Hon Robyn McSweeney. She made contact with Hon Robyn McSweeney’s office and left a message. Hon Robyn McSweeney, the minister, dutifully returned that call and they had a lengthy conversation. Understandably, Michelle Stubbs was upset, she was emotional, and the conversation went on for some time. They know each other well. It was Michelle Stubbs who rang the minister to discuss the issue. She was on the advisory council; she knew what was going on. So to come in here and accuse, as the member for Rockingham did — Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : No, you have to be big enough and man enough to take it now. This is a test of all of you now. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the first time today. Member for Kwinana, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Leader of the Opposition, do you have a supplementary question? Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I am still — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen, I am formally going to call you to order for the first time today. You have a bit to make up, member for Girrawheen. Mr P.C. Tinley interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Willagee, just for the form, I call you to order as well. Mr C.J. BARNETT : It was Michelle Stubbs who called the minister’s office to try to persuade the minister to not reduce the maximum payment. That is clear from her letter today. The minister returned her call, later in the day, and they had a quite lengthy conversation. As I understand it, they talked about the scheme. Point number one: Michelle Stubbs contacted the minister, not the other way around. Point number two: I hope that the member for Rockingham is man enough to apologise, because Hon Robyn McSweeney did not ring Michelle Stubbs to “heavy” her, which he accused her of in this Parliament and which is on the record of this Parliament. I hope he is man enough to apologise to the minister; if not in here, when he sees her in the building. Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : The final point—by way of interjection!—is that Robyn McSweeney said, in the context of a lengthy conversation in which Michelle was extremely emotional, and understandably so, that she did use words along the lines of “let it go through to the keeper”, but that is very different from the accusation that the member for Rockingham made; namely, that the minister got on the phone and “heavied” her. The other accusation made by — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Willagee, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Midland, I formally call you to order for the second time today. I am not particularly interested in being continually on my feet formally calling members to order. It is not something that I want to do on a daily basis, let alone on a minute-by-minute basis! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I will conclude. The question had an implied accusation from the Leader of the Opposition that I and my office had in some way encouraged or got Robyn McSweeney to ring up Michelle Stubbs and “heavy” her. That was the tone of the question. I will tell the Leader of the Opposition that he might do that, the Labor Party might do that, but I do not!
Mr W.J. Johnston : What did he say? The SPEAKER : Member for Cannington! Mr C.J. BARNETT : I also recall very distinctly the member for Rockingham accusing Hon Robyn McSweeney of heavying—that was his expression — Mr M. McGowan : Yes. Mr C.J. BARNETT : — Michelle Stubbs. Mr M. McGowan : That’s what her letter says. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Jumping to conclusions and jumping to assertions. Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Maybe the member should listen for a little while. Hon Robyn McSweeney has professional experience, and years of experience, in dealing with children who have been abused. At least respect that. She is a professional in the area and has years of experience. Mrs M.H. Roberts : That’s why she should have known better, isn’t it? Mr C.J. BARNETT : Why do you not listen for a moment? Members opposite do not treat this seriously. Mrs M.H. Roberts : You don’t. The SPEAKER : Member for Midland, I formally call you to order for the first time today. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I just remind the house that Hon Robyn McSweeney has had years of experience in dealing with abused children. If anyone in this Parliament is sensitive to that situation, it would be her. If anyone has years of personal and professional experience in the area, it would be her—it would be Hon Robyn McSweeney—yet members opposite, and in particular the member for Rockingham, without any true knowledge of the situation, accused Hon Robyn McSweeney of ringing Michelle Stubbs and heavying her. They were the words that the member for Rockingham used. Mr M. McGowan : They were. Mr C.J. BARNETT : So I have taken the trouble, my office has taken the trouble, of being in contact with Hon Robyn McSweeney, and members opposite might be interested in the truth. “Don’t let the truth get in the way” is the Labor paradigm. But members opposite might be interested this time. Mr E.S. Ripper : I am interested. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Okay; well, why don’t you listen? I will tell you what happened. On the day — Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I will tell you what happened. On the day the announcement was made to reduce the maximum payment from $80 000 to $45 000, and the other changes that I have just outlined, Michelle Stubbs—Michelle Stubbs is a good person; I know her reasonably well—was appointed by Hon Robyn McSweeney — Mrs M.H. Roberts : Now you’re saying she’s a liar. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I have never, Mr Speaker, accused Michelle Stubbs of lying—ever—have I? I actually regard her as a friend. Never ever have I said that. You should withdraw and apologise. The SPEAKER : We have been through some of this this morning and some of you know where you are with it at this point. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I know Michelle Stubbs reasonably well. I have a great deal of respect and admiration for her. I like her as a person, and I fully recognise the incredible hardship that she suffered. No-one should doubt that, and certainly not people who know Michelle. Michelle Stubbs was appointed to the Ministerial Advisory Council on Child Protection by Hon Robyn McSweeney. They obviously had many conversations, including conversations about the Redress scheme and the like. On the day in July 2009 when the minister announced that the maximum payment would be reduced from $80 000 to $45 000 and the other changes which were outlined by the Attorney General this morning and which I have just repeated, Michelle Stubbs rang Hon Robyn McSweeney. She made contact with Hon Robyn McSweeney’s office and left a message. Hon Robyn McSweeney, the minister, dutifully returned that call and they had a lengthy conversation. Understandably, Michelle Stubbs was upset, she was emotional, and the conversation went on for some time. They know each other well. It was Michelle Stubbs who rang the minister to discuss the issue. She was on the advisory council; she knew what was going on. So to come in here and accuse, as the member for Rockingham did — Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : No, you have to be big enough and man enough to take it now. This is a test of all of you now. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the first time today. Member for Kwinana, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Leader of the Opposition, do you have a supplementary question? Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I am still — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen, I am formally going to call you to order for the first time today. You have a bit to make up, member for Girrawheen. Mr P.C. Tinley interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Willagee, just for the form, I call you to order as well. Mr C.J. BARNETT : It was Michelle Stubbs who called the minister’s office to try to persuade the minister to not reduce the maximum payment. That is clear from her letter today. The minister returned her call, later in the day, and they had a quite lengthy conversation. As I understand it, they talked about the scheme. Point number one: Michelle Stubbs contacted the minister, not the other way around. Point number two: I hope that the member for Rockingham is man enough to apologise, because Hon Robyn McSweeney did not ring Michelle Stubbs to “heavy” her, which he accused her of in this Parliament and which is on the record of this Parliament. I hope he is man enough to apologise to the minister; if not in here, when he sees her in the building. Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : The final point—by way of interjection!—is that Robyn McSweeney said, in the context of a lengthy conversation in which Michelle was extremely emotional, and understandably so, that she did use words along the lines of “let it go through to the keeper”, but that is very different from the accusation that the member for Rockingham made; namely, that the minister got on the phone and “heavied” her. The other accusation made by — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Willagee, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Midland, I formally call you to order for the second time today. I am not particularly interested in being continually on my feet formally calling members to order. It is not something that I want to do on a daily basis, let alone on a minute-by-minute basis! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I will conclude. The question had an implied accusation from the Leader of the Opposition that I and my office had in some way encouraged or got Robyn McSweeney to ring up Michelle Stubbs and “heavy” her. That was the tone of the question. I will tell the Leader of the Opposition that he might do that, the Labor Party might do that, but I do not!
The SPEAKER : Member for Cannington! Mr C.J. BARNETT : I also recall very distinctly the member for Rockingham accusing Hon Robyn McSweeney of heavying—that was his expression — Mr M. McGowan : Yes. Mr C.J. BARNETT : — Michelle Stubbs. Mr M. McGowan : That’s what her letter says. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Jumping to conclusions and jumping to assertions. Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Maybe the member should listen for a little while. Hon Robyn McSweeney has professional experience, and years of experience, in dealing with children who have been abused. At least respect that. She is a professional in the area and has years of experience. Mrs M.H. Roberts : That’s why she should have known better, isn’t it? Mr C.J. BARNETT : Why do you not listen for a moment? Members opposite do not treat this seriously. Mrs M.H. Roberts : You don’t. The SPEAKER : Member for Midland, I formally call you to order for the first time today. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I just remind the house that Hon Robyn McSweeney has had years of experience in dealing with abused children. If anyone in this Parliament is sensitive to that situation, it would be her. If anyone has years of personal and professional experience in the area, it would be her—it would be Hon Robyn McSweeney—yet members opposite, and in particular the member for Rockingham, without any true knowledge of the situation, accused Hon Robyn McSweeney of ringing Michelle Stubbs and heavying her. They were the words that the member for Rockingham used. Mr M. McGowan : They were. Mr C.J. BARNETT : So I have taken the trouble, my office has taken the trouble, of being in contact with Hon Robyn McSweeney, and members opposite might be interested in the truth. “Don’t let the truth get in the way” is the Labor paradigm. But members opposite might be interested this time. Mr E.S. Ripper : I am interested. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Okay; well, why don’t you listen? I will tell you what happened. On the day — Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I will tell you what happened. On the day the announcement was made to reduce the maximum payment from $80 000 to $45 000, and the other changes that I have just outlined, Michelle Stubbs—Michelle Stubbs is a good person; I know her reasonably well—was appointed by Hon Robyn McSweeney — Mrs M.H. Roberts : Now you’re saying she’s a liar. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I have never, Mr Speaker, accused Michelle Stubbs of lying—ever—have I? I actually regard her as a friend. Never ever have I said that. You should withdraw and apologise. The SPEAKER : We have been through some of this this morning and some of you know where you are with it at this point. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I know Michelle Stubbs reasonably well. I have a great deal of respect and admiration for her. I like her as a person, and I fully recognise the incredible hardship that she suffered. No-one should doubt that, and certainly not people who know Michelle. Michelle Stubbs was appointed to the Ministerial Advisory Council on Child Protection by Hon Robyn McSweeney. They obviously had many conversations, including conversations about the Redress scheme and the like. On the day in July 2009 when the minister announced that the maximum payment would be reduced from $80 000 to $45 000 and the other changes which were outlined by the Attorney General this morning and which I have just repeated, Michelle Stubbs rang Hon Robyn McSweeney. She made contact with Hon Robyn McSweeney’s office and left a message. Hon Robyn McSweeney, the minister, dutifully returned that call and they had a lengthy conversation. Understandably, Michelle Stubbs was upset, she was emotional, and the conversation went on for some time. They know each other well. It was Michelle Stubbs who rang the minister to discuss the issue. She was on the advisory council; she knew what was going on. So to come in here and accuse, as the member for Rockingham did — Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : No, you have to be big enough and man enough to take it now. This is a test of all of you now. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the first time today. Member for Kwinana, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Leader of the Opposition, do you have a supplementary question? Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I am still — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen, I am formally going to call you to order for the first time today. You have a bit to make up, member for Girrawheen. Mr P.C. Tinley interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Willagee, just for the form, I call you to order as well. Mr C.J. BARNETT : It was Michelle Stubbs who called the minister’s office to try to persuade the minister to not reduce the maximum payment. That is clear from her letter today. The minister returned her call, later in the day, and they had a quite lengthy conversation. As I understand it, they talked about the scheme. Point number one: Michelle Stubbs contacted the minister, not the other way around. Point number two: I hope that the member for Rockingham is man enough to apologise, because Hon Robyn McSweeney did not ring Michelle Stubbs to “heavy” her, which he accused her of in this Parliament and which is on the record of this Parliament. I hope he is man enough to apologise to the minister; if not in here, when he sees her in the building. Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : The final point—by way of interjection!—is that Robyn McSweeney said, in the context of a lengthy conversation in which Michelle was extremely emotional, and understandably so, that she did use words along the lines of “let it go through to the keeper”, but that is very different from the accusation that the member for Rockingham made; namely, that the minister got on the phone and “heavied” her. The other accusation made by — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Willagee, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Midland, I formally call you to order for the second time today. I am not particularly interested in being continually on my feet formally calling members to order. It is not something that I want to do on a daily basis, let alone on a minute-by-minute basis! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I will conclude. The question had an implied accusation from the Leader of the Opposition that I and my office had in some way encouraged or got Robyn McSweeney to ring up Michelle Stubbs and “heavy” her. That was the tone of the question. I will tell the Leader of the Opposition that he might do that, the Labor Party might do that, but I do not!
Mr C.J. BARNETT : I also recall very distinctly the member for Rockingham accusing Hon Robyn McSweeney of heavying—that was his expression — Mr M. McGowan : Yes. Mr C.J. BARNETT : — Michelle Stubbs. Mr M. McGowan : That’s what her letter says. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Jumping to conclusions and jumping to assertions. Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Maybe the member should listen for a little while. Hon Robyn McSweeney has professional experience, and years of experience, in dealing with children who have been abused. At least respect that. She is a professional in the area and has years of experience. Mrs M.H. Roberts : That’s why she should have known better, isn’t it? Mr C.J. BARNETT : Why do you not listen for a moment? Members opposite do not treat this seriously. Mrs M.H. Roberts : You don’t. The SPEAKER : Member for Midland, I formally call you to order for the first time today. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I just remind the house that Hon Robyn McSweeney has had years of experience in dealing with abused children. If anyone in this Parliament is sensitive to that situation, it would be her. If anyone has years of personal and professional experience in the area, it would be her—it would be Hon Robyn McSweeney—yet members opposite, and in particular the member for Rockingham, without any true knowledge of the situation, accused Hon Robyn McSweeney of ringing Michelle Stubbs and heavying her. They were the words that the member for Rockingham used. Mr M. McGowan : They were. Mr C.J. BARNETT : So I have taken the trouble, my office has taken the trouble, of being in contact with Hon Robyn McSweeney, and members opposite might be interested in the truth. “Don’t let the truth get in the way” is the Labor paradigm. But members opposite might be interested this time. Mr E.S. Ripper : I am interested. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Okay; well, why don’t you listen? I will tell you what happened. On the day — Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I will tell you what happened. On the day the announcement was made to reduce the maximum payment from $80 000 to $45 000, and the other changes that I have just outlined, Michelle Stubbs—Michelle Stubbs is a good person; I know her reasonably well—was appointed by Hon Robyn McSweeney — Mrs M.H. Roberts : Now you’re saying she’s a liar. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I have never, Mr Speaker, accused Michelle Stubbs of lying—ever—have I? I actually regard her as a friend. Never ever have I said that. You should withdraw and apologise. The SPEAKER : We have been through some of this this morning and some of you know where you are with it at this point. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I know Michelle Stubbs reasonably well. I have a great deal of respect and admiration for her. I like her as a person, and I fully recognise the incredible hardship that she suffered. No-one should doubt that, and certainly not people who know Michelle. Michelle Stubbs was appointed to the Ministerial Advisory Council on Child Protection by Hon Robyn McSweeney. They obviously had many conversations, including conversations about the Redress scheme and the like. On the day in July 2009 when the minister announced that the maximum payment would be reduced from $80 000 to $45 000 and the other changes which were outlined by the Attorney General this morning and which I have just repeated, Michelle Stubbs rang Hon Robyn McSweeney. She made contact with Hon Robyn McSweeney’s office and left a message. Hon Robyn McSweeney, the minister, dutifully returned that call and they had a lengthy conversation. Understandably, Michelle Stubbs was upset, she was emotional, and the conversation went on for some time. They know each other well. It was Michelle Stubbs who rang the minister to discuss the issue. She was on the advisory council; she knew what was going on. So to come in here and accuse, as the member for Rockingham did — Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : No, you have to be big enough and man enough to take it now. This is a test of all of you now. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the first time today. Member for Kwinana, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Leader of the Opposition, do you have a supplementary question? Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I am still — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen, I am formally going to call you to order for the first time today. You have a bit to make up, member for Girrawheen. Mr P.C. Tinley interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Willagee, just for the form, I call you to order as well. Mr C.J. BARNETT : It was Michelle Stubbs who called the minister’s office to try to persuade the minister to not reduce the maximum payment. That is clear from her letter today. The minister returned her call, later in the day, and they had a quite lengthy conversation. As I understand it, they talked about the scheme. Point number one: Michelle Stubbs contacted the minister, not the other way around. Point number two: I hope that the member for Rockingham is man enough to apologise, because Hon Robyn McSweeney did not ring Michelle Stubbs to “heavy” her, which he accused her of in this Parliament and which is on the record of this Parliament. I hope he is man enough to apologise to the minister; if not in here, when he sees her in the building. Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : The final point—by way of interjection!—is that Robyn McSweeney said, in the context of a lengthy conversation in which Michelle was extremely emotional, and understandably so, that she did use words along the lines of “let it go through to the keeper”, but that is very different from the accusation that the member for Rockingham made; namely, that the minister got on the phone and “heavied” her. The other accusation made by — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Willagee, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Midland, I formally call you to order for the second time today. I am not particularly interested in being continually on my feet formally calling members to order. It is not something that I want to do on a daily basis, let alone on a minute-by-minute basis! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I will conclude. The question had an implied accusation from the Leader of the Opposition that I and my office had in some way encouraged or got Robyn McSweeney to ring up Michelle Stubbs and “heavy” her. That was the tone of the question. I will tell the Leader of the Opposition that he might do that, the Labor Party might do that, but I do not!
Mr M. McGowan : Yes. Mr C.J. BARNETT : — Michelle Stubbs. Mr M. McGowan : That’s what her letter says. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Jumping to conclusions and jumping to assertions. Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Maybe the member should listen for a little while. Hon Robyn McSweeney has professional experience, and years of experience, in dealing with children who have been abused. At least respect that. She is a professional in the area and has years of experience. Mrs M.H. Roberts : That’s why she should have known better, isn’t it? Mr C.J. BARNETT : Why do you not listen for a moment? Members opposite do not treat this seriously. Mrs M.H. Roberts : You don’t. The SPEAKER : Member for Midland, I formally call you to order for the first time today. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I just remind the house that Hon Robyn McSweeney has had years of experience in dealing with abused children. If anyone in this Parliament is sensitive to that situation, it would be her. If anyone has years of personal and professional experience in the area, it would be her—it would be Hon Robyn McSweeney—yet members opposite, and in particular the member for Rockingham, without any true knowledge of the situation, accused Hon Robyn McSweeney of ringing Michelle Stubbs and heavying her. They were the words that the member for Rockingham used. Mr M. McGowan : They were. Mr C.J. BARNETT : So I have taken the trouble, my office has taken the trouble, of being in contact with Hon Robyn McSweeney, and members opposite might be interested in the truth. “Don’t let the truth get in the way” is the Labor paradigm. But members opposite might be interested this time. Mr E.S. Ripper : I am interested. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Okay; well, why don’t you listen? I will tell you what happened. On the day — Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I will tell you what happened. On the day the announcement was made to reduce the maximum payment from $80 000 to $45 000, and the other changes that I have just outlined, Michelle Stubbs—Michelle Stubbs is a good person; I know her reasonably well—was appointed by Hon Robyn McSweeney — Mrs M.H. Roberts : Now you’re saying she’s a liar. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I have never, Mr Speaker, accused Michelle Stubbs of lying—ever—have I? I actually regard her as a friend. Never ever have I said that. You should withdraw and apologise. The SPEAKER : We have been through some of this this morning and some of you know where you are with it at this point. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I know Michelle Stubbs reasonably well. I have a great deal of respect and admiration for her. I like her as a person, and I fully recognise the incredible hardship that she suffered. No-one should doubt that, and certainly not people who know Michelle. Michelle Stubbs was appointed to the Ministerial Advisory Council on Child Protection by Hon Robyn McSweeney. They obviously had many conversations, including conversations about the Redress scheme and the like. On the day in July 2009 when the minister announced that the maximum payment would be reduced from $80 000 to $45 000 and the other changes which were outlined by the Attorney General this morning and which I have just repeated, Michelle Stubbs rang Hon Robyn McSweeney. She made contact with Hon Robyn McSweeney’s office and left a message. Hon Robyn McSweeney, the minister, dutifully returned that call and they had a lengthy conversation. Understandably, Michelle Stubbs was upset, she was emotional, and the conversation went on for some time. They know each other well. It was Michelle Stubbs who rang the minister to discuss the issue. She was on the advisory council; she knew what was going on. So to come in here and accuse, as the member for Rockingham did — Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : No, you have to be big enough and man enough to take it now. This is a test of all of you now. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the first time today. Member for Kwinana, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Leader of the Opposition, do you have a supplementary question? Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I am still — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen, I am formally going to call you to order for the first time today. You have a bit to make up, member for Girrawheen. Mr P.C. Tinley interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Willagee, just for the form, I call you to order as well. Mr C.J. BARNETT : It was Michelle Stubbs who called the minister’s office to try to persuade the minister to not reduce the maximum payment. That is clear from her letter today. The minister returned her call, later in the day, and they had a quite lengthy conversation. As I understand it, they talked about the scheme. Point number one: Michelle Stubbs contacted the minister, not the other way around. Point number two: I hope that the member for Rockingham is man enough to apologise, because Hon Robyn McSweeney did not ring Michelle Stubbs to “heavy” her, which he accused her of in this Parliament and which is on the record of this Parliament. I hope he is man enough to apologise to the minister; if not in here, when he sees her in the building. Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : The final point—by way of interjection!—is that Robyn McSweeney said, in the context of a lengthy conversation in which Michelle was extremely emotional, and understandably so, that she did use words along the lines of “let it go through to the keeper”, but that is very different from the accusation that the member for Rockingham made; namely, that the minister got on the phone and “heavied” her. The other accusation made by — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Willagee, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Midland, I formally call you to order for the second time today. I am not particularly interested in being continually on my feet formally calling members to order. It is not something that I want to do on a daily basis, let alone on a minute-by-minute basis! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I will conclude. The question had an implied accusation from the Leader of the Opposition that I and my office had in some way encouraged or got Robyn McSweeney to ring up Michelle Stubbs and “heavy” her. That was the tone of the question. I will tell the Leader of the Opposition that he might do that, the Labor Party might do that, but I do not!
Mr C.J. BARNETT : — Michelle Stubbs. Mr M. McGowan : That’s what her letter says. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Jumping to conclusions and jumping to assertions. Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Maybe the member should listen for a little while. Hon Robyn McSweeney has professional experience, and years of experience, in dealing with children who have been abused. At least respect that. She is a professional in the area and has years of experience. Mrs M.H. Roberts : That’s why she should have known better, isn’t it? Mr C.J. BARNETT : Why do you not listen for a moment? Members opposite do not treat this seriously. Mrs M.H. Roberts : You don’t. The SPEAKER : Member for Midland, I formally call you to order for the first time today. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I just remind the house that Hon Robyn McSweeney has had years of experience in dealing with abused children. If anyone in this Parliament is sensitive to that situation, it would be her. If anyone has years of personal and professional experience in the area, it would be her—it would be Hon Robyn McSweeney—yet members opposite, and in particular the member for Rockingham, without any true knowledge of the situation, accused Hon Robyn McSweeney of ringing Michelle Stubbs and heavying her. They were the words that the member for Rockingham used. Mr M. McGowan : They were. Mr C.J. BARNETT : So I have taken the trouble, my office has taken the trouble, of being in contact with Hon Robyn McSweeney, and members opposite might be interested in the truth. “Don’t let the truth get in the way” is the Labor paradigm. But members opposite might be interested this time. Mr E.S. Ripper : I am interested. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Okay; well, why don’t you listen? I will tell you what happened. On the day — Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I will tell you what happened. On the day the announcement was made to reduce the maximum payment from $80 000 to $45 000, and the other changes that I have just outlined, Michelle Stubbs—Michelle Stubbs is a good person; I know her reasonably well—was appointed by Hon Robyn McSweeney — Mrs M.H. Roberts : Now you’re saying she’s a liar. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I have never, Mr Speaker, accused Michelle Stubbs of lying—ever—have I? I actually regard her as a friend. Never ever have I said that. You should withdraw and apologise. The SPEAKER : We have been through some of this this morning and some of you know where you are with it at this point. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I know Michelle Stubbs reasonably well. I have a great deal of respect and admiration for her. I like her as a person, and I fully recognise the incredible hardship that she suffered. No-one should doubt that, and certainly not people who know Michelle. Michelle Stubbs was appointed to the Ministerial Advisory Council on Child Protection by Hon Robyn McSweeney. They obviously had many conversations, including conversations about the Redress scheme and the like. On the day in July 2009 when the minister announced that the maximum payment would be reduced from $80 000 to $45 000 and the other changes which were outlined by the Attorney General this morning and which I have just repeated, Michelle Stubbs rang Hon Robyn McSweeney. She made contact with Hon Robyn McSweeney’s office and left a message. Hon Robyn McSweeney, the minister, dutifully returned that call and they had a lengthy conversation. Understandably, Michelle Stubbs was upset, she was emotional, and the conversation went on for some time. They know each other well. It was Michelle Stubbs who rang the minister to discuss the issue. She was on the advisory council; she knew what was going on. So to come in here and accuse, as the member for Rockingham did — Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : No, you have to be big enough and man enough to take it now. This is a test of all of you now. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the first time today. Member for Kwinana, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Leader of the Opposition, do you have a supplementary question? Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I am still — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen, I am formally going to call you to order for the first time today. You have a bit to make up, member for Girrawheen. Mr P.C. Tinley interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Willagee, just for the form, I call you to order as well. Mr C.J. BARNETT : It was Michelle Stubbs who called the minister’s office to try to persuade the minister to not reduce the maximum payment. That is clear from her letter today. The minister returned her call, later in the day, and they had a quite lengthy conversation. As I understand it, they talked about the scheme. Point number one: Michelle Stubbs contacted the minister, not the other way around. Point number two: I hope that the member for Rockingham is man enough to apologise, because Hon Robyn McSweeney did not ring Michelle Stubbs to “heavy” her, which he accused her of in this Parliament and which is on the record of this Parliament. I hope he is man enough to apologise to the minister; if not in here, when he sees her in the building. Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : The final point—by way of interjection!—is that Robyn McSweeney said, in the context of a lengthy conversation in which Michelle was extremely emotional, and understandably so, that she did use words along the lines of “let it go through to the keeper”, but that is very different from the accusation that the member for Rockingham made; namely, that the minister got on the phone and “heavied” her. The other accusation made by — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Willagee, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Midland, I formally call you to order for the second time today. I am not particularly interested in being continually on my feet formally calling members to order. It is not something that I want to do on a daily basis, let alone on a minute-by-minute basis! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I will conclude. The question had an implied accusation from the Leader of the Opposition that I and my office had in some way encouraged or got Robyn McSweeney to ring up Michelle Stubbs and “heavy” her. That was the tone of the question. I will tell the Leader of the Opposition that he might do that, the Labor Party might do that, but I do not!
Mr M. McGowan : That’s what her letter says. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Jumping to conclusions and jumping to assertions. Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Maybe the member should listen for a little while. Hon Robyn McSweeney has professional experience, and years of experience, in dealing with children who have been abused. At least respect that. She is a professional in the area and has years of experience. Mrs M.H. Roberts : That’s why she should have known better, isn’t it? Mr C.J. BARNETT : Why do you not listen for a moment? Members opposite do not treat this seriously. Mrs M.H. Roberts : You don’t. The SPEAKER : Member for Midland, I formally call you to order for the first time today. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I just remind the house that Hon Robyn McSweeney has had years of experience in dealing with abused children. If anyone in this Parliament is sensitive to that situation, it would be her. If anyone has years of personal and professional experience in the area, it would be her—it would be Hon Robyn McSweeney—yet members opposite, and in particular the member for Rockingham, without any true knowledge of the situation, accused Hon Robyn McSweeney of ringing Michelle Stubbs and heavying her. They were the words that the member for Rockingham used. Mr M. McGowan : They were. Mr C.J. BARNETT : So I have taken the trouble, my office has taken the trouble, of being in contact with Hon Robyn McSweeney, and members opposite might be interested in the truth. “Don’t let the truth get in the way” is the Labor paradigm. But members opposite might be interested this time. Mr E.S. Ripper : I am interested. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Okay; well, why don’t you listen? I will tell you what happened. On the day — Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I will tell you what happened. On the day the announcement was made to reduce the maximum payment from $80 000 to $45 000, and the other changes that I have just outlined, Michelle Stubbs—Michelle Stubbs is a good person; I know her reasonably well—was appointed by Hon Robyn McSweeney — Mrs M.H. Roberts : Now you’re saying she’s a liar. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I have never, Mr Speaker, accused Michelle Stubbs of lying—ever—have I? I actually regard her as a friend. Never ever have I said that. You should withdraw and apologise. The SPEAKER : We have been through some of this this morning and some of you know where you are with it at this point. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I know Michelle Stubbs reasonably well. I have a great deal of respect and admiration for her. I like her as a person, and I fully recognise the incredible hardship that she suffered. No-one should doubt that, and certainly not people who know Michelle. Michelle Stubbs was appointed to the Ministerial Advisory Council on Child Protection by Hon Robyn McSweeney. They obviously had many conversations, including conversations about the Redress scheme and the like. On the day in July 2009 when the minister announced that the maximum payment would be reduced from $80 000 to $45 000 and the other changes which were outlined by the Attorney General this morning and which I have just repeated, Michelle Stubbs rang Hon Robyn McSweeney. She made contact with Hon Robyn McSweeney’s office and left a message. Hon Robyn McSweeney, the minister, dutifully returned that call and they had a lengthy conversation. Understandably, Michelle Stubbs was upset, she was emotional, and the conversation went on for some time. They know each other well. It was Michelle Stubbs who rang the minister to discuss the issue. She was on the advisory council; she knew what was going on. So to come in here and accuse, as the member for Rockingham did — Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : No, you have to be big enough and man enough to take it now. This is a test of all of you now. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the first time today. Member for Kwinana, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Leader of the Opposition, do you have a supplementary question? Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I am still — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen, I am formally going to call you to order for the first time today. You have a bit to make up, member for Girrawheen. Mr P.C. Tinley interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Willagee, just for the form, I call you to order as well. Mr C.J. BARNETT : It was Michelle Stubbs who called the minister’s office to try to persuade the minister to not reduce the maximum payment. That is clear from her letter today. The minister returned her call, later in the day, and they had a quite lengthy conversation. As I understand it, they talked about the scheme. Point number one: Michelle Stubbs contacted the minister, not the other way around. Point number two: I hope that the member for Rockingham is man enough to apologise, because Hon Robyn McSweeney did not ring Michelle Stubbs to “heavy” her, which he accused her of in this Parliament and which is on the record of this Parliament. I hope he is man enough to apologise to the minister; if not in here, when he sees her in the building. Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : The final point—by way of interjection!—is that Robyn McSweeney said, in the context of a lengthy conversation in which Michelle was extremely emotional, and understandably so, that she did use words along the lines of “let it go through to the keeper”, but that is very different from the accusation that the member for Rockingham made; namely, that the minister got on the phone and “heavied” her. The other accusation made by — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Willagee, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Midland, I formally call you to order for the second time today. I am not particularly interested in being continually on my feet formally calling members to order. It is not something that I want to do on a daily basis, let alone on a minute-by-minute basis! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I will conclude. The question had an implied accusation from the Leader of the Opposition that I and my office had in some way encouraged or got Robyn McSweeney to ring up Michelle Stubbs and “heavy” her. That was the tone of the question. I will tell the Leader of the Opposition that he might do that, the Labor Party might do that, but I do not!
Mr C.J. BARNETT : Jumping to conclusions and jumping to assertions. Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Maybe the member should listen for a little while. Hon Robyn McSweeney has professional experience, and years of experience, in dealing with children who have been abused. At least respect that. She is a professional in the area and has years of experience. Mrs M.H. Roberts : That’s why she should have known better, isn’t it? Mr C.J. BARNETT : Why do you not listen for a moment? Members opposite do not treat this seriously. Mrs M.H. Roberts : You don’t. The SPEAKER : Member for Midland, I formally call you to order for the first time today. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I just remind the house that Hon Robyn McSweeney has had years of experience in dealing with abused children. If anyone in this Parliament is sensitive to that situation, it would be her. If anyone has years of personal and professional experience in the area, it would be her—it would be Hon Robyn McSweeney—yet members opposite, and in particular the member for Rockingham, without any true knowledge of the situation, accused Hon Robyn McSweeney of ringing Michelle Stubbs and heavying her. They were the words that the member for Rockingham used. Mr M. McGowan : They were. Mr C.J. BARNETT : So I have taken the trouble, my office has taken the trouble, of being in contact with Hon Robyn McSweeney, and members opposite might be interested in the truth. “Don’t let the truth get in the way” is the Labor paradigm. But members opposite might be interested this time. Mr E.S. Ripper : I am interested. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Okay; well, why don’t you listen? I will tell you what happened. On the day — Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I will tell you what happened. On the day the announcement was made to reduce the maximum payment from $80 000 to $45 000, and the other changes that I have just outlined, Michelle Stubbs—Michelle Stubbs is a good person; I know her reasonably well—was appointed by Hon Robyn McSweeney — Mrs M.H. Roberts : Now you’re saying she’s a liar. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I have never, Mr Speaker, accused Michelle Stubbs of lying—ever—have I? I actually regard her as a friend. Never ever have I said that. You should withdraw and apologise. The SPEAKER : We have been through some of this this morning and some of you know where you are with it at this point. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I know Michelle Stubbs reasonably well. I have a great deal of respect and admiration for her. I like her as a person, and I fully recognise the incredible hardship that she suffered. No-one should doubt that, and certainly not people who know Michelle. Michelle Stubbs was appointed to the Ministerial Advisory Council on Child Protection by Hon Robyn McSweeney. They obviously had many conversations, including conversations about the Redress scheme and the like. On the day in July 2009 when the minister announced that the maximum payment would be reduced from $80 000 to $45 000 and the other changes which were outlined by the Attorney General this morning and which I have just repeated, Michelle Stubbs rang Hon Robyn McSweeney. She made contact with Hon Robyn McSweeney’s office and left a message. Hon Robyn McSweeney, the minister, dutifully returned that call and they had a lengthy conversation. Understandably, Michelle Stubbs was upset, she was emotional, and the conversation went on for some time. They know each other well. It was Michelle Stubbs who rang the minister to discuss the issue. She was on the advisory council; she knew what was going on. So to come in here and accuse, as the member for Rockingham did — Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : No, you have to be big enough and man enough to take it now. This is a test of all of you now. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the first time today. Member for Kwinana, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Leader of the Opposition, do you have a supplementary question? Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I am still — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen, I am formally going to call you to order for the first time today. You have a bit to make up, member for Girrawheen. Mr P.C. Tinley interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Willagee, just for the form, I call you to order as well. Mr C.J. BARNETT : It was Michelle Stubbs who called the minister’s office to try to persuade the minister to not reduce the maximum payment. That is clear from her letter today. The minister returned her call, later in the day, and they had a quite lengthy conversation. As I understand it, they talked about the scheme. Point number one: Michelle Stubbs contacted the minister, not the other way around. Point number two: I hope that the member for Rockingham is man enough to apologise, because Hon Robyn McSweeney did not ring Michelle Stubbs to “heavy” her, which he accused her of in this Parliament and which is on the record of this Parliament. I hope he is man enough to apologise to the minister; if not in here, when he sees her in the building. Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : The final point—by way of interjection!—is that Robyn McSweeney said, in the context of a lengthy conversation in which Michelle was extremely emotional, and understandably so, that she did use words along the lines of “let it go through to the keeper”, but that is very different from the accusation that the member for Rockingham made; namely, that the minister got on the phone and “heavied” her. The other accusation made by — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Willagee, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Midland, I formally call you to order for the second time today. I am not particularly interested in being continually on my feet formally calling members to order. It is not something that I want to do on a daily basis, let alone on a minute-by-minute basis! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I will conclude. The question had an implied accusation from the Leader of the Opposition that I and my office had in some way encouraged or got Robyn McSweeney to ring up Michelle Stubbs and “heavy” her. That was the tone of the question. I will tell the Leader of the Opposition that he might do that, the Labor Party might do that, but I do not!
Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Maybe the member should listen for a little while. Hon Robyn McSweeney has professional experience, and years of experience, in dealing with children who have been abused. At least respect that. She is a professional in the area and has years of experience. Mrs M.H. Roberts : That’s why she should have known better, isn’t it? Mr C.J. BARNETT : Why do you not listen for a moment? Members opposite do not treat this seriously. Mrs M.H. Roberts : You don’t. The SPEAKER : Member for Midland, I formally call you to order for the first time today. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I just remind the house that Hon Robyn McSweeney has had years of experience in dealing with abused children. If anyone in this Parliament is sensitive to that situation, it would be her. If anyone has years of personal and professional experience in the area, it would be her—it would be Hon Robyn McSweeney—yet members opposite, and in particular the member for Rockingham, without any true knowledge of the situation, accused Hon Robyn McSweeney of ringing Michelle Stubbs and heavying her. They were the words that the member for Rockingham used. Mr M. McGowan : They were. Mr C.J. BARNETT : So I have taken the trouble, my office has taken the trouble, of being in contact with Hon Robyn McSweeney, and members opposite might be interested in the truth. “Don’t let the truth get in the way” is the Labor paradigm. But members opposite might be interested this time. Mr E.S. Ripper : I am interested. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Okay; well, why don’t you listen? I will tell you what happened. On the day — Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I will tell you what happened. On the day the announcement was made to reduce the maximum payment from $80 000 to $45 000, and the other changes that I have just outlined, Michelle Stubbs—Michelle Stubbs is a good person; I know her reasonably well—was appointed by Hon Robyn McSweeney — Mrs M.H. Roberts : Now you’re saying she’s a liar. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I have never, Mr Speaker, accused Michelle Stubbs of lying—ever—have I? I actually regard her as a friend. Never ever have I said that. You should withdraw and apologise. The SPEAKER : We have been through some of this this morning and some of you know where you are with it at this point. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I know Michelle Stubbs reasonably well. I have a great deal of respect and admiration for her. I like her as a person, and I fully recognise the incredible hardship that she suffered. No-one should doubt that, and certainly not people who know Michelle. Michelle Stubbs was appointed to the Ministerial Advisory Council on Child Protection by Hon Robyn McSweeney. They obviously had many conversations, including conversations about the Redress scheme and the like. On the day in July 2009 when the minister announced that the maximum payment would be reduced from $80 000 to $45 000 and the other changes which were outlined by the Attorney General this morning and which I have just repeated, Michelle Stubbs rang Hon Robyn McSweeney. She made contact with Hon Robyn McSweeney’s office and left a message. Hon Robyn McSweeney, the minister, dutifully returned that call and they had a lengthy conversation. Understandably, Michelle Stubbs was upset, she was emotional, and the conversation went on for some time. They know each other well. It was Michelle Stubbs who rang the minister to discuss the issue. She was on the advisory council; she knew what was going on. So to come in here and accuse, as the member for Rockingham did — Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : No, you have to be big enough and man enough to take it now. This is a test of all of you now. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the first time today. Member for Kwinana, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Leader of the Opposition, do you have a supplementary question? Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I am still — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen, I am formally going to call you to order for the first time today. You have a bit to make up, member for Girrawheen. Mr P.C. Tinley interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Willagee, just for the form, I call you to order as well. Mr C.J. BARNETT : It was Michelle Stubbs who called the minister’s office to try to persuade the minister to not reduce the maximum payment. That is clear from her letter today. The minister returned her call, later in the day, and they had a quite lengthy conversation. As I understand it, they talked about the scheme. Point number one: Michelle Stubbs contacted the minister, not the other way around. Point number two: I hope that the member for Rockingham is man enough to apologise, because Hon Robyn McSweeney did not ring Michelle Stubbs to “heavy” her, which he accused her of in this Parliament and which is on the record of this Parliament. I hope he is man enough to apologise to the minister; if not in here, when he sees her in the building. Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : The final point—by way of interjection!—is that Robyn McSweeney said, in the context of a lengthy conversation in which Michelle was extremely emotional, and understandably so, that she did use words along the lines of “let it go through to the keeper”, but that is very different from the accusation that the member for Rockingham made; namely, that the minister got on the phone and “heavied” her. The other accusation made by — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Willagee, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Midland, I formally call you to order for the second time today. I am not particularly interested in being continually on my feet formally calling members to order. It is not something that I want to do on a daily basis, let alone on a minute-by-minute basis! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I will conclude. The question had an implied accusation from the Leader of the Opposition that I and my office had in some way encouraged or got Robyn McSweeney to ring up Michelle Stubbs and “heavy” her. That was the tone of the question. I will tell the Leader of the Opposition that he might do that, the Labor Party might do that, but I do not!
Mr C.J. BARNETT : Maybe the member should listen for a little while. Hon Robyn McSweeney has professional experience, and years of experience, in dealing with children who have been abused. At least respect that. She is a professional in the area and has years of experience. Mrs M.H. Roberts : That’s why she should have known better, isn’t it? Mr C.J. BARNETT : Why do you not listen for a moment? Members opposite do not treat this seriously. Mrs M.H. Roberts : You don’t. The SPEAKER : Member for Midland, I formally call you to order for the first time today. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I just remind the house that Hon Robyn McSweeney has had years of experience in dealing with abused children. If anyone in this Parliament is sensitive to that situation, it would be her. If anyone has years of personal and professional experience in the area, it would be her—it would be Hon Robyn McSweeney—yet members opposite, and in particular the member for Rockingham, without any true knowledge of the situation, accused Hon Robyn McSweeney of ringing Michelle Stubbs and heavying her. They were the words that the member for Rockingham used. Mr M. McGowan : They were. Mr C.J. BARNETT : So I have taken the trouble, my office has taken the trouble, of being in contact with Hon Robyn McSweeney, and members opposite might be interested in the truth. “Don’t let the truth get in the way” is the Labor paradigm. But members opposite might be interested this time. Mr E.S. Ripper : I am interested. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Okay; well, why don’t you listen? I will tell you what happened. On the day — Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I will tell you what happened. On the day the announcement was made to reduce the maximum payment from $80 000 to $45 000, and the other changes that I have just outlined, Michelle Stubbs—Michelle Stubbs is a good person; I know her reasonably well—was appointed by Hon Robyn McSweeney — Mrs M.H. Roberts : Now you’re saying she’s a liar. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I have never, Mr Speaker, accused Michelle Stubbs of lying—ever—have I? I actually regard her as a friend. Never ever have I said that. You should withdraw and apologise. The SPEAKER : We have been through some of this this morning and some of you know where you are with it at this point. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I know Michelle Stubbs reasonably well. I have a great deal of respect and admiration for her. I like her as a person, and I fully recognise the incredible hardship that she suffered. No-one should doubt that, and certainly not people who know Michelle. Michelle Stubbs was appointed to the Ministerial Advisory Council on Child Protection by Hon Robyn McSweeney. They obviously had many conversations, including conversations about the Redress scheme and the like. On the day in July 2009 when the minister announced that the maximum payment would be reduced from $80 000 to $45 000 and the other changes which were outlined by the Attorney General this morning and which I have just repeated, Michelle Stubbs rang Hon Robyn McSweeney. She made contact with Hon Robyn McSweeney’s office and left a message. Hon Robyn McSweeney, the minister, dutifully returned that call and they had a lengthy conversation. Understandably, Michelle Stubbs was upset, she was emotional, and the conversation went on for some time. They know each other well. It was Michelle Stubbs who rang the minister to discuss the issue. She was on the advisory council; she knew what was going on. So to come in here and accuse, as the member for Rockingham did — Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : No, you have to be big enough and man enough to take it now. This is a test of all of you now. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the first time today. Member for Kwinana, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Leader of the Opposition, do you have a supplementary question? Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I am still — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen, I am formally going to call you to order for the first time today. You have a bit to make up, member for Girrawheen. Mr P.C. Tinley interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Willagee, just for the form, I call you to order as well. Mr C.J. BARNETT : It was Michelle Stubbs who called the minister’s office to try to persuade the minister to not reduce the maximum payment. That is clear from her letter today. The minister returned her call, later in the day, and they had a quite lengthy conversation. As I understand it, they talked about the scheme. Point number one: Michelle Stubbs contacted the minister, not the other way around. Point number two: I hope that the member for Rockingham is man enough to apologise, because Hon Robyn McSweeney did not ring Michelle Stubbs to “heavy” her, which he accused her of in this Parliament and which is on the record of this Parliament. I hope he is man enough to apologise to the minister; if not in here, when he sees her in the building. Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : The final point—by way of interjection!—is that Robyn McSweeney said, in the context of a lengthy conversation in which Michelle was extremely emotional, and understandably so, that she did use words along the lines of “let it go through to the keeper”, but that is very different from the accusation that the member for Rockingham made; namely, that the minister got on the phone and “heavied” her. The other accusation made by — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Willagee, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Midland, I formally call you to order for the second time today. I am not particularly interested in being continually on my feet formally calling members to order. It is not something that I want to do on a daily basis, let alone on a minute-by-minute basis! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I will conclude. The question had an implied accusation from the Leader of the Opposition that I and my office had in some way encouraged or got Robyn McSweeney to ring up Michelle Stubbs and “heavy” her. That was the tone of the question. I will tell the Leader of the Opposition that he might do that, the Labor Party might do that, but I do not!
Hon Robyn McSweeney has professional experience, and years of experience, in dealing with children who have been abused. At least respect that. She is a professional in the area and has years of experience. Mrs M.H. Roberts : That’s why she should have known better, isn’t it? Mr C.J. BARNETT : Why do you not listen for a moment? Members opposite do not treat this seriously. Mrs M.H. Roberts : You don’t. The SPEAKER : Member for Midland, I formally call you to order for the first time today. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I just remind the house that Hon Robyn McSweeney has had years of experience in dealing with abused children. If anyone in this Parliament is sensitive to that situation, it would be her. If anyone has years of personal and professional experience in the area, it would be her—it would be Hon Robyn McSweeney—yet members opposite, and in particular the member for Rockingham, without any true knowledge of the situation, accused Hon Robyn McSweeney of ringing Michelle Stubbs and heavying her. They were the words that the member for Rockingham used. Mr M. McGowan : They were. Mr C.J. BARNETT : So I have taken the trouble, my office has taken the trouble, of being in contact with Hon Robyn McSweeney, and members opposite might be interested in the truth. “Don’t let the truth get in the way” is the Labor paradigm. But members opposite might be interested this time. Mr E.S. Ripper : I am interested. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Okay; well, why don’t you listen? I will tell you what happened. On the day — Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I will tell you what happened. On the day the announcement was made to reduce the maximum payment from $80 000 to $45 000, and the other changes that I have just outlined, Michelle Stubbs—Michelle Stubbs is a good person; I know her reasonably well—was appointed by Hon Robyn McSweeney — Mrs M.H. Roberts : Now you’re saying she’s a liar. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I have never, Mr Speaker, accused Michelle Stubbs of lying—ever—have I? I actually regard her as a friend. Never ever have I said that. You should withdraw and apologise. The SPEAKER : We have been through some of this this morning and some of you know where you are with it at this point. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I know Michelle Stubbs reasonably well. I have a great deal of respect and admiration for her. I like her as a person, and I fully recognise the incredible hardship that she suffered. No-one should doubt that, and certainly not people who know Michelle. Michelle Stubbs was appointed to the Ministerial Advisory Council on Child Protection by Hon Robyn McSweeney. They obviously had many conversations, including conversations about the Redress scheme and the like. On the day in July 2009 when the minister announced that the maximum payment would be reduced from $80 000 to $45 000 and the other changes which were outlined by the Attorney General this morning and which I have just repeated, Michelle Stubbs rang Hon Robyn McSweeney. She made contact with Hon Robyn McSweeney’s office and left a message. Hon Robyn McSweeney, the minister, dutifully returned that call and they had a lengthy conversation. Understandably, Michelle Stubbs was upset, she was emotional, and the conversation went on for some time. They know each other well. It was Michelle Stubbs who rang the minister to discuss the issue. She was on the advisory council; she knew what was going on. So to come in here and accuse, as the member for Rockingham did — Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : No, you have to be big enough and man enough to take it now. This is a test of all of you now. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the first time today. Member for Kwinana, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Leader of the Opposition, do you have a supplementary question? Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I am still — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen, I am formally going to call you to order for the first time today. You have a bit to make up, member for Girrawheen. Mr P.C. Tinley interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Willagee, just for the form, I call you to order as well. Mr C.J. BARNETT : It was Michelle Stubbs who called the minister’s office to try to persuade the minister to not reduce the maximum payment. That is clear from her letter today. The minister returned her call, later in the day, and they had a quite lengthy conversation. As I understand it, they talked about the scheme. Point number one: Michelle Stubbs contacted the minister, not the other way around. Point number two: I hope that the member for Rockingham is man enough to apologise, because Hon Robyn McSweeney did not ring Michelle Stubbs to “heavy” her, which he accused her of in this Parliament and which is on the record of this Parliament. I hope he is man enough to apologise to the minister; if not in here, when he sees her in the building. Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : The final point—by way of interjection!—is that Robyn McSweeney said, in the context of a lengthy conversation in which Michelle was extremely emotional, and understandably so, that she did use words along the lines of “let it go through to the keeper”, but that is very different from the accusation that the member for Rockingham made; namely, that the minister got on the phone and “heavied” her. The other accusation made by — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Willagee, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Midland, I formally call you to order for the second time today. I am not particularly interested in being continually on my feet formally calling members to order. It is not something that I want to do on a daily basis, let alone on a minute-by-minute basis! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I will conclude. The question had an implied accusation from the Leader of the Opposition that I and my office had in some way encouraged or got Robyn McSweeney to ring up Michelle Stubbs and “heavy” her. That was the tone of the question. I will tell the Leader of the Opposition that he might do that, the Labor Party might do that, but I do not!
Mrs M.H. Roberts : That’s why she should have known better, isn’t it? Mr C.J. BARNETT : Why do you not listen for a moment? Members opposite do not treat this seriously. Mrs M.H. Roberts : You don’t. The SPEAKER : Member for Midland, I formally call you to order for the first time today. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I just remind the house that Hon Robyn McSweeney has had years of experience in dealing with abused children. If anyone in this Parliament is sensitive to that situation, it would be her. If anyone has years of personal and professional experience in the area, it would be her—it would be Hon Robyn McSweeney—yet members opposite, and in particular the member for Rockingham, without any true knowledge of the situation, accused Hon Robyn McSweeney of ringing Michelle Stubbs and heavying her. They were the words that the member for Rockingham used. Mr M. McGowan : They were. Mr C.J. BARNETT : So I have taken the trouble, my office has taken the trouble, of being in contact with Hon Robyn McSweeney, and members opposite might be interested in the truth. “Don’t let the truth get in the way” is the Labor paradigm. But members opposite might be interested this time. Mr E.S. Ripper : I am interested. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Okay; well, why don’t you listen? I will tell you what happened. On the day — Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I will tell you what happened. On the day the announcement was made to reduce the maximum payment from $80 000 to $45 000, and the other changes that I have just outlined, Michelle Stubbs—Michelle Stubbs is a good person; I know her reasonably well—was appointed by Hon Robyn McSweeney — Mrs M.H. Roberts : Now you’re saying she’s a liar. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I have never, Mr Speaker, accused Michelle Stubbs of lying—ever—have I? I actually regard her as a friend. Never ever have I said that. You should withdraw and apologise. The SPEAKER : We have been through some of this this morning and some of you know where you are with it at this point. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I know Michelle Stubbs reasonably well. I have a great deal of respect and admiration for her. I like her as a person, and I fully recognise the incredible hardship that she suffered. No-one should doubt that, and certainly not people who know Michelle. Michelle Stubbs was appointed to the Ministerial Advisory Council on Child Protection by Hon Robyn McSweeney. They obviously had many conversations, including conversations about the Redress scheme and the like. On the day in July 2009 when the minister announced that the maximum payment would be reduced from $80 000 to $45 000 and the other changes which were outlined by the Attorney General this morning and which I have just repeated, Michelle Stubbs rang Hon Robyn McSweeney. She made contact with Hon Robyn McSweeney’s office and left a message. Hon Robyn McSweeney, the minister, dutifully returned that call and they had a lengthy conversation. Understandably, Michelle Stubbs was upset, she was emotional, and the conversation went on for some time. They know each other well. It was Michelle Stubbs who rang the minister to discuss the issue. She was on the advisory council; she knew what was going on. So to come in here and accuse, as the member for Rockingham did — Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : No, you have to be big enough and man enough to take it now. This is a test of all of you now. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the first time today. Member for Kwinana, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Leader of the Opposition, do you have a supplementary question? Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I am still — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen, I am formally going to call you to order for the first time today. You have a bit to make up, member for Girrawheen. Mr P.C. Tinley interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Willagee, just for the form, I call you to order as well. Mr C.J. BARNETT : It was Michelle Stubbs who called the minister’s office to try to persuade the minister to not reduce the maximum payment. That is clear from her letter today. The minister returned her call, later in the day, and they had a quite lengthy conversation. As I understand it, they talked about the scheme. Point number one: Michelle Stubbs contacted the minister, not the other way around. Point number two: I hope that the member for Rockingham is man enough to apologise, because Hon Robyn McSweeney did not ring Michelle Stubbs to “heavy” her, which he accused her of in this Parliament and which is on the record of this Parliament. I hope he is man enough to apologise to the minister; if not in here, when he sees her in the building. Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : The final point—by way of interjection!—is that Robyn McSweeney said, in the context of a lengthy conversation in which Michelle was extremely emotional, and understandably so, that she did use words along the lines of “let it go through to the keeper”, but that is very different from the accusation that the member for Rockingham made; namely, that the minister got on the phone and “heavied” her. The other accusation made by — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Willagee, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Midland, I formally call you to order for the second time today. I am not particularly interested in being continually on my feet formally calling members to order. It is not something that I want to do on a daily basis, let alone on a minute-by-minute basis! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I will conclude. The question had an implied accusation from the Leader of the Opposition that I and my office had in some way encouraged or got Robyn McSweeney to ring up Michelle Stubbs and “heavy” her. That was the tone of the question. I will tell the Leader of the Opposition that he might do that, the Labor Party might do that, but I do not!
Mr C.J. BARNETT : Why do you not listen for a moment? Members opposite do not treat this seriously. Mrs M.H. Roberts : You don’t. The SPEAKER : Member for Midland, I formally call you to order for the first time today. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I just remind the house that Hon Robyn McSweeney has had years of experience in dealing with abused children. If anyone in this Parliament is sensitive to that situation, it would be her. If anyone has years of personal and professional experience in the area, it would be her—it would be Hon Robyn McSweeney—yet members opposite, and in particular the member for Rockingham, without any true knowledge of the situation, accused Hon Robyn McSweeney of ringing Michelle Stubbs and heavying her. They were the words that the member for Rockingham used. Mr M. McGowan : They were. Mr C.J. BARNETT : So I have taken the trouble, my office has taken the trouble, of being in contact with Hon Robyn McSweeney, and members opposite might be interested in the truth. “Don’t let the truth get in the way” is the Labor paradigm. But members opposite might be interested this time. Mr E.S. Ripper : I am interested. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Okay; well, why don’t you listen? I will tell you what happened. On the day — Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I will tell you what happened. On the day the announcement was made to reduce the maximum payment from $80 000 to $45 000, and the other changes that I have just outlined, Michelle Stubbs—Michelle Stubbs is a good person; I know her reasonably well—was appointed by Hon Robyn McSweeney — Mrs M.H. Roberts : Now you’re saying she’s a liar. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I have never, Mr Speaker, accused Michelle Stubbs of lying—ever—have I? I actually regard her as a friend. Never ever have I said that. You should withdraw and apologise. The SPEAKER : We have been through some of this this morning and some of you know where you are with it at this point. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I know Michelle Stubbs reasonably well. I have a great deal of respect and admiration for her. I like her as a person, and I fully recognise the incredible hardship that she suffered. No-one should doubt that, and certainly not people who know Michelle. Michelle Stubbs was appointed to the Ministerial Advisory Council on Child Protection by Hon Robyn McSweeney. They obviously had many conversations, including conversations about the Redress scheme and the like. On the day in July 2009 when the minister announced that the maximum payment would be reduced from $80 000 to $45 000 and the other changes which were outlined by the Attorney General this morning and which I have just repeated, Michelle Stubbs rang Hon Robyn McSweeney. She made contact with Hon Robyn McSweeney’s office and left a message. Hon Robyn McSweeney, the minister, dutifully returned that call and they had a lengthy conversation. Understandably, Michelle Stubbs was upset, she was emotional, and the conversation went on for some time. They know each other well. It was Michelle Stubbs who rang the minister to discuss the issue. She was on the advisory council; she knew what was going on. So to come in here and accuse, as the member for Rockingham did — Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : No, you have to be big enough and man enough to take it now. This is a test of all of you now. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the first time today. Member for Kwinana, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Leader of the Opposition, do you have a supplementary question? Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I am still — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen, I am formally going to call you to order for the first time today. You have a bit to make up, member for Girrawheen. Mr P.C. Tinley interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Willagee, just for the form, I call you to order as well. Mr C.J. BARNETT : It was Michelle Stubbs who called the minister’s office to try to persuade the minister to not reduce the maximum payment. That is clear from her letter today. The minister returned her call, later in the day, and they had a quite lengthy conversation. As I understand it, they talked about the scheme. Point number one: Michelle Stubbs contacted the minister, not the other way around. Point number two: I hope that the member for Rockingham is man enough to apologise, because Hon Robyn McSweeney did not ring Michelle Stubbs to “heavy” her, which he accused her of in this Parliament and which is on the record of this Parliament. I hope he is man enough to apologise to the minister; if not in here, when he sees her in the building. Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : The final point—by way of interjection!—is that Robyn McSweeney said, in the context of a lengthy conversation in which Michelle was extremely emotional, and understandably so, that she did use words along the lines of “let it go through to the keeper”, but that is very different from the accusation that the member for Rockingham made; namely, that the minister got on the phone and “heavied” her. The other accusation made by — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Willagee, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Midland, I formally call you to order for the second time today. I am not particularly interested in being continually on my feet formally calling members to order. It is not something that I want to do on a daily basis, let alone on a minute-by-minute basis! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I will conclude. The question had an implied accusation from the Leader of the Opposition that I and my office had in some way encouraged or got Robyn McSweeney to ring up Michelle Stubbs and “heavy” her. That was the tone of the question. I will tell the Leader of the Opposition that he might do that, the Labor Party might do that, but I do not!
Mrs M.H. Roberts : You don’t. The SPEAKER : Member for Midland, I formally call you to order for the first time today. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I just remind the house that Hon Robyn McSweeney has had years of experience in dealing with abused children. If anyone in this Parliament is sensitive to that situation, it would be her. If anyone has years of personal and professional experience in the area, it would be her—it would be Hon Robyn McSweeney—yet members opposite, and in particular the member for Rockingham, without any true knowledge of the situation, accused Hon Robyn McSweeney of ringing Michelle Stubbs and heavying her. They were the words that the member for Rockingham used. Mr M. McGowan : They were. Mr C.J. BARNETT : So I have taken the trouble, my office has taken the trouble, of being in contact with Hon Robyn McSweeney, and members opposite might be interested in the truth. “Don’t let the truth get in the way” is the Labor paradigm. But members opposite might be interested this time. Mr E.S. Ripper : I am interested. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Okay; well, why don’t you listen? I will tell you what happened. On the day — Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I will tell you what happened. On the day the announcement was made to reduce the maximum payment from $80 000 to $45 000, and the other changes that I have just outlined, Michelle Stubbs—Michelle Stubbs is a good person; I know her reasonably well—was appointed by Hon Robyn McSweeney — Mrs M.H. Roberts : Now you’re saying she’s a liar. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I have never, Mr Speaker, accused Michelle Stubbs of lying—ever—have I? I actually regard her as a friend. Never ever have I said that. You should withdraw and apologise. The SPEAKER : We have been through some of this this morning and some of you know where you are with it at this point. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I know Michelle Stubbs reasonably well. I have a great deal of respect and admiration for her. I like her as a person, and I fully recognise the incredible hardship that she suffered. No-one should doubt that, and certainly not people who know Michelle. Michelle Stubbs was appointed to the Ministerial Advisory Council on Child Protection by Hon Robyn McSweeney. They obviously had many conversations, including conversations about the Redress scheme and the like. On the day in July 2009 when the minister announced that the maximum payment would be reduced from $80 000 to $45 000 and the other changes which were outlined by the Attorney General this morning and which I have just repeated, Michelle Stubbs rang Hon Robyn McSweeney. She made contact with Hon Robyn McSweeney’s office and left a message. Hon Robyn McSweeney, the minister, dutifully returned that call and they had a lengthy conversation. Understandably, Michelle Stubbs was upset, she was emotional, and the conversation went on for some time. They know each other well. It was Michelle Stubbs who rang the minister to discuss the issue. She was on the advisory council; she knew what was going on. So to come in here and accuse, as the member for Rockingham did — Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : No, you have to be big enough and man enough to take it now. This is a test of all of you now. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the first time today. Member for Kwinana, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Leader of the Opposition, do you have a supplementary question? Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I am still — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen, I am formally going to call you to order for the first time today. You have a bit to make up, member for Girrawheen. Mr P.C. Tinley interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Willagee, just for the form, I call you to order as well. Mr C.J. BARNETT : It was Michelle Stubbs who called the minister’s office to try to persuade the minister to not reduce the maximum payment. That is clear from her letter today. The minister returned her call, later in the day, and they had a quite lengthy conversation. As I understand it, they talked about the scheme. Point number one: Michelle Stubbs contacted the minister, not the other way around. Point number two: I hope that the member for Rockingham is man enough to apologise, because Hon Robyn McSweeney did not ring Michelle Stubbs to “heavy” her, which he accused her of in this Parliament and which is on the record of this Parliament. I hope he is man enough to apologise to the minister; if not in here, when he sees her in the building. Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : The final point—by way of interjection!—is that Robyn McSweeney said, in the context of a lengthy conversation in which Michelle was extremely emotional, and understandably so, that she did use words along the lines of “let it go through to the keeper”, but that is very different from the accusation that the member for Rockingham made; namely, that the minister got on the phone and “heavied” her. The other accusation made by — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Willagee, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Midland, I formally call you to order for the second time today. I am not particularly interested in being continually on my feet formally calling members to order. It is not something that I want to do on a daily basis, let alone on a minute-by-minute basis! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I will conclude. The question had an implied accusation from the Leader of the Opposition that I and my office had in some way encouraged or got Robyn McSweeney to ring up Michelle Stubbs and “heavy” her. That was the tone of the question. I will tell the Leader of the Opposition that he might do that, the Labor Party might do that, but I do not!
The SPEAKER : Member for Midland, I formally call you to order for the first time today. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I just remind the house that Hon Robyn McSweeney has had years of experience in dealing with abused children. If anyone in this Parliament is sensitive to that situation, it would be her. If anyone has years of personal and professional experience in the area, it would be her—it would be Hon Robyn McSweeney—yet members opposite, and in particular the member for Rockingham, without any true knowledge of the situation, accused Hon Robyn McSweeney of ringing Michelle Stubbs and heavying her. They were the words that the member for Rockingham used. Mr M. McGowan : They were. Mr C.J. BARNETT : So I have taken the trouble, my office has taken the trouble, of being in contact with Hon Robyn McSweeney, and members opposite might be interested in the truth. “Don’t let the truth get in the way” is the Labor paradigm. But members opposite might be interested this time. Mr E.S. Ripper : I am interested. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Okay; well, why don’t you listen? I will tell you what happened. On the day — Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I will tell you what happened. On the day the announcement was made to reduce the maximum payment from $80 000 to $45 000, and the other changes that I have just outlined, Michelle Stubbs—Michelle Stubbs is a good person; I know her reasonably well—was appointed by Hon Robyn McSweeney — Mrs M.H. Roberts : Now you’re saying she’s a liar. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I have never, Mr Speaker, accused Michelle Stubbs of lying—ever—have I? I actually regard her as a friend. Never ever have I said that. You should withdraw and apologise. The SPEAKER : We have been through some of this this morning and some of you know where you are with it at this point. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I know Michelle Stubbs reasonably well. I have a great deal of respect and admiration for her. I like her as a person, and I fully recognise the incredible hardship that she suffered. No-one should doubt that, and certainly not people who know Michelle. Michelle Stubbs was appointed to the Ministerial Advisory Council on Child Protection by Hon Robyn McSweeney. They obviously had many conversations, including conversations about the Redress scheme and the like. On the day in July 2009 when the minister announced that the maximum payment would be reduced from $80 000 to $45 000 and the other changes which were outlined by the Attorney General this morning and which I have just repeated, Michelle Stubbs rang Hon Robyn McSweeney. She made contact with Hon Robyn McSweeney’s office and left a message. Hon Robyn McSweeney, the minister, dutifully returned that call and they had a lengthy conversation. Understandably, Michelle Stubbs was upset, she was emotional, and the conversation went on for some time. They know each other well. It was Michelle Stubbs who rang the minister to discuss the issue. She was on the advisory council; she knew what was going on. So to come in here and accuse, as the member for Rockingham did — Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : No, you have to be big enough and man enough to take it now. This is a test of all of you now. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the first time today. Member for Kwinana, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Leader of the Opposition, do you have a supplementary question? Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I am still — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen, I am formally going to call you to order for the first time today. You have a bit to make up, member for Girrawheen. Mr P.C. Tinley interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Willagee, just for the form, I call you to order as well. Mr C.J. BARNETT : It was Michelle Stubbs who called the minister’s office to try to persuade the minister to not reduce the maximum payment. That is clear from her letter today. The minister returned her call, later in the day, and they had a quite lengthy conversation. As I understand it, they talked about the scheme. Point number one: Michelle Stubbs contacted the minister, not the other way around. Point number two: I hope that the member for Rockingham is man enough to apologise, because Hon Robyn McSweeney did not ring Michelle Stubbs to “heavy” her, which he accused her of in this Parliament and which is on the record of this Parliament. I hope he is man enough to apologise to the minister; if not in here, when he sees her in the building. Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : The final point—by way of interjection!—is that Robyn McSweeney said, in the context of a lengthy conversation in which Michelle was extremely emotional, and understandably so, that she did use words along the lines of “let it go through to the keeper”, but that is very different from the accusation that the member for Rockingham made; namely, that the minister got on the phone and “heavied” her. The other accusation made by — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Willagee, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Midland, I formally call you to order for the second time today. I am not particularly interested in being continually on my feet formally calling members to order. It is not something that I want to do on a daily basis, let alone on a minute-by-minute basis! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I will conclude. The question had an implied accusation from the Leader of the Opposition that I and my office had in some way encouraged or got Robyn McSweeney to ring up Michelle Stubbs and “heavy” her. That was the tone of the question. I will tell the Leader of the Opposition that he might do that, the Labor Party might do that, but I do not!
Mr C.J. BARNETT : I just remind the house that Hon Robyn McSweeney has had years of experience in dealing with abused children. If anyone in this Parliament is sensitive to that situation, it would be her. If anyone has years of personal and professional experience in the area, it would be her—it would be Hon Robyn McSweeney—yet members opposite, and in particular the member for Rockingham, without any true knowledge of the situation, accused Hon Robyn McSweeney of ringing Michelle Stubbs and heavying her. They were the words that the member for Rockingham used. Mr M. McGowan : They were. Mr C.J. BARNETT : So I have taken the trouble, my office has taken the trouble, of being in contact with Hon Robyn McSweeney, and members opposite might be interested in the truth. “Don’t let the truth get in the way” is the Labor paradigm. But members opposite might be interested this time. Mr E.S. Ripper : I am interested. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Okay; well, why don’t you listen? I will tell you what happened. On the day — Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I will tell you what happened. On the day the announcement was made to reduce the maximum payment from $80 000 to $45 000, and the other changes that I have just outlined, Michelle Stubbs—Michelle Stubbs is a good person; I know her reasonably well—was appointed by Hon Robyn McSweeney — Mrs M.H. Roberts : Now you’re saying she’s a liar. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I have never, Mr Speaker, accused Michelle Stubbs of lying—ever—have I? I actually regard her as a friend. Never ever have I said that. You should withdraw and apologise. The SPEAKER : We have been through some of this this morning and some of you know where you are with it at this point. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I know Michelle Stubbs reasonably well. I have a great deal of respect and admiration for her. I like her as a person, and I fully recognise the incredible hardship that she suffered. No-one should doubt that, and certainly not people who know Michelle. Michelle Stubbs was appointed to the Ministerial Advisory Council on Child Protection by Hon Robyn McSweeney. They obviously had many conversations, including conversations about the Redress scheme and the like. On the day in July 2009 when the minister announced that the maximum payment would be reduced from $80 000 to $45 000 and the other changes which were outlined by the Attorney General this morning and which I have just repeated, Michelle Stubbs rang Hon Robyn McSweeney. She made contact with Hon Robyn McSweeney’s office and left a message. Hon Robyn McSweeney, the minister, dutifully returned that call and they had a lengthy conversation. Understandably, Michelle Stubbs was upset, she was emotional, and the conversation went on for some time. They know each other well. It was Michelle Stubbs who rang the minister to discuss the issue. She was on the advisory council; she knew what was going on. So to come in here and accuse, as the member for Rockingham did — Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : No, you have to be big enough and man enough to take it now. This is a test of all of you now. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the first time today. Member for Kwinana, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Leader of the Opposition, do you have a supplementary question? Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I am still — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen, I am formally going to call you to order for the first time today. You have a bit to make up, member for Girrawheen. Mr P.C. Tinley interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Willagee, just for the form, I call you to order as well. Mr C.J. BARNETT : It was Michelle Stubbs who called the minister’s office to try to persuade the minister to not reduce the maximum payment. That is clear from her letter today. The minister returned her call, later in the day, and they had a quite lengthy conversation. As I understand it, they talked about the scheme. Point number one: Michelle Stubbs contacted the minister, not the other way around. Point number two: I hope that the member for Rockingham is man enough to apologise, because Hon Robyn McSweeney did not ring Michelle Stubbs to “heavy” her, which he accused her of in this Parliament and which is on the record of this Parliament. I hope he is man enough to apologise to the minister; if not in here, when he sees her in the building. Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : The final point—by way of interjection!—is that Robyn McSweeney said, in the context of a lengthy conversation in which Michelle was extremely emotional, and understandably so, that she did use words along the lines of “let it go through to the keeper”, but that is very different from the accusation that the member for Rockingham made; namely, that the minister got on the phone and “heavied” her. The other accusation made by — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Willagee, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Midland, I formally call you to order for the second time today. I am not particularly interested in being continually on my feet formally calling members to order. It is not something that I want to do on a daily basis, let alone on a minute-by-minute basis! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I will conclude. The question had an implied accusation from the Leader of the Opposition that I and my office had in some way encouraged or got Robyn McSweeney to ring up Michelle Stubbs and “heavy” her. That was the tone of the question. I will tell the Leader of the Opposition that he might do that, the Labor Party might do that, but I do not!
Mr M. McGowan : They were. Mr C.J. BARNETT : So I have taken the trouble, my office has taken the trouble, of being in contact with Hon Robyn McSweeney, and members opposite might be interested in the truth. “Don’t let the truth get in the way” is the Labor paradigm. But members opposite might be interested this time. Mr E.S. Ripper : I am interested. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Okay; well, why don’t you listen? I will tell you what happened. On the day — Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I will tell you what happened. On the day the announcement was made to reduce the maximum payment from $80 000 to $45 000, and the other changes that I have just outlined, Michelle Stubbs—Michelle Stubbs is a good person; I know her reasonably well—was appointed by Hon Robyn McSweeney — Mrs M.H. Roberts : Now you’re saying she’s a liar. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I have never, Mr Speaker, accused Michelle Stubbs of lying—ever—have I? I actually regard her as a friend. Never ever have I said that. You should withdraw and apologise. The SPEAKER : We have been through some of this this morning and some of you know where you are with it at this point. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I know Michelle Stubbs reasonably well. I have a great deal of respect and admiration for her. I like her as a person, and I fully recognise the incredible hardship that she suffered. No-one should doubt that, and certainly not people who know Michelle. Michelle Stubbs was appointed to the Ministerial Advisory Council on Child Protection by Hon Robyn McSweeney. They obviously had many conversations, including conversations about the Redress scheme and the like. On the day in July 2009 when the minister announced that the maximum payment would be reduced from $80 000 to $45 000 and the other changes which were outlined by the Attorney General this morning and which I have just repeated, Michelle Stubbs rang Hon Robyn McSweeney. She made contact with Hon Robyn McSweeney’s office and left a message. Hon Robyn McSweeney, the minister, dutifully returned that call and they had a lengthy conversation. Understandably, Michelle Stubbs was upset, she was emotional, and the conversation went on for some time. They know each other well. It was Michelle Stubbs who rang the minister to discuss the issue. She was on the advisory council; she knew what was going on. So to come in here and accuse, as the member for Rockingham did — Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : No, you have to be big enough and man enough to take it now. This is a test of all of you now. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the first time today. Member for Kwinana, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Leader of the Opposition, do you have a supplementary question? Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I am still — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen, I am formally going to call you to order for the first time today. You have a bit to make up, member for Girrawheen. Mr P.C. Tinley interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Willagee, just for the form, I call you to order as well. Mr C.J. BARNETT : It was Michelle Stubbs who called the minister’s office to try to persuade the minister to not reduce the maximum payment. That is clear from her letter today. The minister returned her call, later in the day, and they had a quite lengthy conversation. As I understand it, they talked about the scheme. Point number one: Michelle Stubbs contacted the minister, not the other way around. Point number two: I hope that the member for Rockingham is man enough to apologise, because Hon Robyn McSweeney did not ring Michelle Stubbs to “heavy” her, which he accused her of in this Parliament and which is on the record of this Parliament. I hope he is man enough to apologise to the minister; if not in here, when he sees her in the building. Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : The final point—by way of interjection!—is that Robyn McSweeney said, in the context of a lengthy conversation in which Michelle was extremely emotional, and understandably so, that she did use words along the lines of “let it go through to the keeper”, but that is very different from the accusation that the member for Rockingham made; namely, that the minister got on the phone and “heavied” her. The other accusation made by — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Willagee, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Midland, I formally call you to order for the second time today. I am not particularly interested in being continually on my feet formally calling members to order. It is not something that I want to do on a daily basis, let alone on a minute-by-minute basis! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I will conclude. The question had an implied accusation from the Leader of the Opposition that I and my office had in some way encouraged or got Robyn McSweeney to ring up Michelle Stubbs and “heavy” her. That was the tone of the question. I will tell the Leader of the Opposition that he might do that, the Labor Party might do that, but I do not!
Mr C.J. BARNETT : So I have taken the trouble, my office has taken the trouble, of being in contact with Hon Robyn McSweeney, and members opposite might be interested in the truth. “Don’t let the truth get in the way” is the Labor paradigm. But members opposite might be interested this time. Mr E.S. Ripper : I am interested. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Okay; well, why don’t you listen? I will tell you what happened. On the day — Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I will tell you what happened. On the day the announcement was made to reduce the maximum payment from $80 000 to $45 000, and the other changes that I have just outlined, Michelle Stubbs—Michelle Stubbs is a good person; I know her reasonably well—was appointed by Hon Robyn McSweeney — Mrs M.H. Roberts : Now you’re saying she’s a liar. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I have never, Mr Speaker, accused Michelle Stubbs of lying—ever—have I? I actually regard her as a friend. Never ever have I said that. You should withdraw and apologise. The SPEAKER : We have been through some of this this morning and some of you know where you are with it at this point. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I know Michelle Stubbs reasonably well. I have a great deal of respect and admiration for her. I like her as a person, and I fully recognise the incredible hardship that she suffered. No-one should doubt that, and certainly not people who know Michelle. Michelle Stubbs was appointed to the Ministerial Advisory Council on Child Protection by Hon Robyn McSweeney. They obviously had many conversations, including conversations about the Redress scheme and the like. On the day in July 2009 when the minister announced that the maximum payment would be reduced from $80 000 to $45 000 and the other changes which were outlined by the Attorney General this morning and which I have just repeated, Michelle Stubbs rang Hon Robyn McSweeney. She made contact with Hon Robyn McSweeney’s office and left a message. Hon Robyn McSweeney, the minister, dutifully returned that call and they had a lengthy conversation. Understandably, Michelle Stubbs was upset, she was emotional, and the conversation went on for some time. They know each other well. It was Michelle Stubbs who rang the minister to discuss the issue. She was on the advisory council; she knew what was going on. So to come in here and accuse, as the member for Rockingham did — Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : No, you have to be big enough and man enough to take it now. This is a test of all of you now. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the first time today. Member for Kwinana, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Leader of the Opposition, do you have a supplementary question? Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I am still — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen, I am formally going to call you to order for the first time today. You have a bit to make up, member for Girrawheen. Mr P.C. Tinley interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Willagee, just for the form, I call you to order as well. Mr C.J. BARNETT : It was Michelle Stubbs who called the minister’s office to try to persuade the minister to not reduce the maximum payment. That is clear from her letter today. The minister returned her call, later in the day, and they had a quite lengthy conversation. As I understand it, they talked about the scheme. Point number one: Michelle Stubbs contacted the minister, not the other way around. Point number two: I hope that the member for Rockingham is man enough to apologise, because Hon Robyn McSweeney did not ring Michelle Stubbs to “heavy” her, which he accused her of in this Parliament and which is on the record of this Parliament. I hope he is man enough to apologise to the minister; if not in here, when he sees her in the building. Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : The final point—by way of interjection!—is that Robyn McSweeney said, in the context of a lengthy conversation in which Michelle was extremely emotional, and understandably so, that she did use words along the lines of “let it go through to the keeper”, but that is very different from the accusation that the member for Rockingham made; namely, that the minister got on the phone and “heavied” her. The other accusation made by — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Willagee, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Midland, I formally call you to order for the second time today. I am not particularly interested in being continually on my feet formally calling members to order. It is not something that I want to do on a daily basis, let alone on a minute-by-minute basis! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I will conclude. The question had an implied accusation from the Leader of the Opposition that I and my office had in some way encouraged or got Robyn McSweeney to ring up Michelle Stubbs and “heavy” her. That was the tone of the question. I will tell the Leader of the Opposition that he might do that, the Labor Party might do that, but I do not!
Mr E.S. Ripper : I am interested. Mr C.J. BARNETT : Okay; well, why don’t you listen? I will tell you what happened. On the day — Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I will tell you what happened. On the day the announcement was made to reduce the maximum payment from $80 000 to $45 000, and the other changes that I have just outlined, Michelle Stubbs—Michelle Stubbs is a good person; I know her reasonably well—was appointed by Hon Robyn McSweeney — Mrs M.H. Roberts : Now you’re saying she’s a liar. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I have never, Mr Speaker, accused Michelle Stubbs of lying—ever—have I? I actually regard her as a friend. Never ever have I said that. You should withdraw and apologise. The SPEAKER : We have been through some of this this morning and some of you know where you are with it at this point. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I know Michelle Stubbs reasonably well. I have a great deal of respect and admiration for her. I like her as a person, and I fully recognise the incredible hardship that she suffered. No-one should doubt that, and certainly not people who know Michelle. Michelle Stubbs was appointed to the Ministerial Advisory Council on Child Protection by Hon Robyn McSweeney. They obviously had many conversations, including conversations about the Redress scheme and the like. On the day in July 2009 when the minister announced that the maximum payment would be reduced from $80 000 to $45 000 and the other changes which were outlined by the Attorney General this morning and which I have just repeated, Michelle Stubbs rang Hon Robyn McSweeney. She made contact with Hon Robyn McSweeney’s office and left a message. Hon Robyn McSweeney, the minister, dutifully returned that call and they had a lengthy conversation. Understandably, Michelle Stubbs was upset, she was emotional, and the conversation went on for some time. They know each other well. It was Michelle Stubbs who rang the minister to discuss the issue. She was on the advisory council; she knew what was going on. So to come in here and accuse, as the member for Rockingham did — Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : No, you have to be big enough and man enough to take it now. This is a test of all of you now. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the first time today. Member for Kwinana, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Leader of the Opposition, do you have a supplementary question? Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I am still — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen, I am formally going to call you to order for the first time today. You have a bit to make up, member for Girrawheen. Mr P.C. Tinley interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Willagee, just for the form, I call you to order as well. Mr C.J. BARNETT : It was Michelle Stubbs who called the minister’s office to try to persuade the minister to not reduce the maximum payment. That is clear from her letter today. The minister returned her call, later in the day, and they had a quite lengthy conversation. As I understand it, they talked about the scheme. Point number one: Michelle Stubbs contacted the minister, not the other way around. Point number two: I hope that the member for Rockingham is man enough to apologise, because Hon Robyn McSweeney did not ring Michelle Stubbs to “heavy” her, which he accused her of in this Parliament and which is on the record of this Parliament. I hope he is man enough to apologise to the minister; if not in here, when he sees her in the building. Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : The final point—by way of interjection!—is that Robyn McSweeney said, in the context of a lengthy conversation in which Michelle was extremely emotional, and understandably so, that she did use words along the lines of “let it go through to the keeper”, but that is very different from the accusation that the member for Rockingham made; namely, that the minister got on the phone and “heavied” her. The other accusation made by — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Willagee, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Midland, I formally call you to order for the second time today. I am not particularly interested in being continually on my feet formally calling members to order. It is not something that I want to do on a daily basis, let alone on a minute-by-minute basis! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I will conclude. The question had an implied accusation from the Leader of the Opposition that I and my office had in some way encouraged or got Robyn McSweeney to ring up Michelle Stubbs and “heavy” her. That was the tone of the question. I will tell the Leader of the Opposition that he might do that, the Labor Party might do that, but I do not!
Mr C.J. BARNETT : Okay; well, why don’t you listen? I will tell you what happened. On the day — Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I will tell you what happened. On the day the announcement was made to reduce the maximum payment from $80 000 to $45 000, and the other changes that I have just outlined, Michelle Stubbs—Michelle Stubbs is a good person; I know her reasonably well—was appointed by Hon Robyn McSweeney — Mrs M.H. Roberts : Now you’re saying she’s a liar. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I have never, Mr Speaker, accused Michelle Stubbs of lying—ever—have I? I actually regard her as a friend. Never ever have I said that. You should withdraw and apologise. The SPEAKER : We have been through some of this this morning and some of you know where you are with it at this point. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I know Michelle Stubbs reasonably well. I have a great deal of respect and admiration for her. I like her as a person, and I fully recognise the incredible hardship that she suffered. No-one should doubt that, and certainly not people who know Michelle. Michelle Stubbs was appointed to the Ministerial Advisory Council on Child Protection by Hon Robyn McSweeney. They obviously had many conversations, including conversations about the Redress scheme and the like. On the day in July 2009 when the minister announced that the maximum payment would be reduced from $80 000 to $45 000 and the other changes which were outlined by the Attorney General this morning and which I have just repeated, Michelle Stubbs rang Hon Robyn McSweeney. She made contact with Hon Robyn McSweeney’s office and left a message. Hon Robyn McSweeney, the minister, dutifully returned that call and they had a lengthy conversation. Understandably, Michelle Stubbs was upset, she was emotional, and the conversation went on for some time. They know each other well. It was Michelle Stubbs who rang the minister to discuss the issue. She was on the advisory council; she knew what was going on. So to come in here and accuse, as the member for Rockingham did — Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : No, you have to be big enough and man enough to take it now. This is a test of all of you now. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the first time today. Member for Kwinana, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Leader of the Opposition, do you have a supplementary question? Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I am still — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen, I am formally going to call you to order for the first time today. You have a bit to make up, member for Girrawheen. Mr P.C. Tinley interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Willagee, just for the form, I call you to order as well. Mr C.J. BARNETT : It was Michelle Stubbs who called the minister’s office to try to persuade the minister to not reduce the maximum payment. That is clear from her letter today. The minister returned her call, later in the day, and they had a quite lengthy conversation. As I understand it, they talked about the scheme. Point number one: Michelle Stubbs contacted the minister, not the other way around. Point number two: I hope that the member for Rockingham is man enough to apologise, because Hon Robyn McSweeney did not ring Michelle Stubbs to “heavy” her, which he accused her of in this Parliament and which is on the record of this Parliament. I hope he is man enough to apologise to the minister; if not in here, when he sees her in the building. Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : The final point—by way of interjection!—is that Robyn McSweeney said, in the context of a lengthy conversation in which Michelle was extremely emotional, and understandably so, that she did use words along the lines of “let it go through to the keeper”, but that is very different from the accusation that the member for Rockingham made; namely, that the minister got on the phone and “heavied” her. The other accusation made by — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Willagee, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Midland, I formally call you to order for the second time today. I am not particularly interested in being continually on my feet formally calling members to order. It is not something that I want to do on a daily basis, let alone on a minute-by-minute basis! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I will conclude. The question had an implied accusation from the Leader of the Opposition that I and my office had in some way encouraged or got Robyn McSweeney to ring up Michelle Stubbs and “heavy” her. That was the tone of the question. I will tell the Leader of the Opposition that he might do that, the Labor Party might do that, but I do not!
Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I will tell you what happened. On the day the announcement was made to reduce the maximum payment from $80 000 to $45 000, and the other changes that I have just outlined, Michelle Stubbs—Michelle Stubbs is a good person; I know her reasonably well—was appointed by Hon Robyn McSweeney — Mrs M.H. Roberts : Now you’re saying she’s a liar. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I have never, Mr Speaker, accused Michelle Stubbs of lying—ever—have I? I actually regard her as a friend. Never ever have I said that. You should withdraw and apologise. The SPEAKER : We have been through some of this this morning and some of you know where you are with it at this point. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I know Michelle Stubbs reasonably well. I have a great deal of respect and admiration for her. I like her as a person, and I fully recognise the incredible hardship that she suffered. No-one should doubt that, and certainly not people who know Michelle. Michelle Stubbs was appointed to the Ministerial Advisory Council on Child Protection by Hon Robyn McSweeney. They obviously had many conversations, including conversations about the Redress scheme and the like. On the day in July 2009 when the minister announced that the maximum payment would be reduced from $80 000 to $45 000 and the other changes which were outlined by the Attorney General this morning and which I have just repeated, Michelle Stubbs rang Hon Robyn McSweeney. She made contact with Hon Robyn McSweeney’s office and left a message. Hon Robyn McSweeney, the minister, dutifully returned that call and they had a lengthy conversation. Understandably, Michelle Stubbs was upset, she was emotional, and the conversation went on for some time. They know each other well. It was Michelle Stubbs who rang the minister to discuss the issue. She was on the advisory council; she knew what was going on. So to come in here and accuse, as the member for Rockingham did — Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : No, you have to be big enough and man enough to take it now. This is a test of all of you now. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the first time today. Member for Kwinana, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Leader of the Opposition, do you have a supplementary question? Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I am still — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen, I am formally going to call you to order for the first time today. You have a bit to make up, member for Girrawheen. Mr P.C. Tinley interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Willagee, just for the form, I call you to order as well. Mr C.J. BARNETT : It was Michelle Stubbs who called the minister’s office to try to persuade the minister to not reduce the maximum payment. That is clear from her letter today. The minister returned her call, later in the day, and they had a quite lengthy conversation. As I understand it, they talked about the scheme. Point number one: Michelle Stubbs contacted the minister, not the other way around. Point number two: I hope that the member for Rockingham is man enough to apologise, because Hon Robyn McSweeney did not ring Michelle Stubbs to “heavy” her, which he accused her of in this Parliament and which is on the record of this Parliament. I hope he is man enough to apologise to the minister; if not in here, when he sees her in the building. Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : The final point—by way of interjection!—is that Robyn McSweeney said, in the context of a lengthy conversation in which Michelle was extremely emotional, and understandably so, that she did use words along the lines of “let it go through to the keeper”, but that is very different from the accusation that the member for Rockingham made; namely, that the minister got on the phone and “heavied” her. The other accusation made by — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Willagee, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Midland, I formally call you to order for the second time today. I am not particularly interested in being continually on my feet formally calling members to order. It is not something that I want to do on a daily basis, let alone on a minute-by-minute basis! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I will conclude. The question had an implied accusation from the Leader of the Opposition that I and my office had in some way encouraged or got Robyn McSweeney to ring up Michelle Stubbs and “heavy” her. That was the tone of the question. I will tell the Leader of the Opposition that he might do that, the Labor Party might do that, but I do not!
Mr C.J. BARNETT : I will tell you what happened. On the day the announcement was made to reduce the maximum payment from $80 000 to $45 000, and the other changes that I have just outlined, Michelle Stubbs—Michelle Stubbs is a good person; I know her reasonably well—was appointed by Hon Robyn McSweeney — Mrs M.H. Roberts : Now you’re saying she’s a liar. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I have never, Mr Speaker, accused Michelle Stubbs of lying—ever—have I? I actually regard her as a friend. Never ever have I said that. You should withdraw and apologise. The SPEAKER : We have been through some of this this morning and some of you know where you are with it at this point. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I know Michelle Stubbs reasonably well. I have a great deal of respect and admiration for her. I like her as a person, and I fully recognise the incredible hardship that she suffered. No-one should doubt that, and certainly not people who know Michelle. Michelle Stubbs was appointed to the Ministerial Advisory Council on Child Protection by Hon Robyn McSweeney. They obviously had many conversations, including conversations about the Redress scheme and the like. On the day in July 2009 when the minister announced that the maximum payment would be reduced from $80 000 to $45 000 and the other changes which were outlined by the Attorney General this morning and which I have just repeated, Michelle Stubbs rang Hon Robyn McSweeney. She made contact with Hon Robyn McSweeney’s office and left a message. Hon Robyn McSweeney, the minister, dutifully returned that call and they had a lengthy conversation. Understandably, Michelle Stubbs was upset, she was emotional, and the conversation went on for some time. They know each other well. It was Michelle Stubbs who rang the minister to discuss the issue. She was on the advisory council; she knew what was going on. So to come in here and accuse, as the member for Rockingham did — Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : No, you have to be big enough and man enough to take it now. This is a test of all of you now. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the first time today. Member for Kwinana, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Leader of the Opposition, do you have a supplementary question? Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I am still — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen, I am formally going to call you to order for the first time today. You have a bit to make up, member for Girrawheen. Mr P.C. Tinley interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Willagee, just for the form, I call you to order as well. Mr C.J. BARNETT : It was Michelle Stubbs who called the minister’s office to try to persuade the minister to not reduce the maximum payment. That is clear from her letter today. The minister returned her call, later in the day, and they had a quite lengthy conversation. As I understand it, they talked about the scheme. Point number one: Michelle Stubbs contacted the minister, not the other way around. Point number two: I hope that the member for Rockingham is man enough to apologise, because Hon Robyn McSweeney did not ring Michelle Stubbs to “heavy” her, which he accused her of in this Parliament and which is on the record of this Parliament. I hope he is man enough to apologise to the minister; if not in here, when he sees her in the building. Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : The final point—by way of interjection!—is that Robyn McSweeney said, in the context of a lengthy conversation in which Michelle was extremely emotional, and understandably so, that she did use words along the lines of “let it go through to the keeper”, but that is very different from the accusation that the member for Rockingham made; namely, that the minister got on the phone and “heavied” her. The other accusation made by — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Willagee, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Midland, I formally call you to order for the second time today. I am not particularly interested in being continually on my feet formally calling members to order. It is not something that I want to do on a daily basis, let alone on a minute-by-minute basis! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I will conclude. The question had an implied accusation from the Leader of the Opposition that I and my office had in some way encouraged or got Robyn McSweeney to ring up Michelle Stubbs and “heavy” her. That was the tone of the question. I will tell the Leader of the Opposition that he might do that, the Labor Party might do that, but I do not!
Mrs M.H. Roberts : Now you’re saying she’s a liar. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I have never, Mr Speaker, accused Michelle Stubbs of lying—ever—have I? I actually regard her as a friend. Never ever have I said that. You should withdraw and apologise. The SPEAKER : We have been through some of this this morning and some of you know where you are with it at this point. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I know Michelle Stubbs reasonably well. I have a great deal of respect and admiration for her. I like her as a person, and I fully recognise the incredible hardship that she suffered. No-one should doubt that, and certainly not people who know Michelle. Michelle Stubbs was appointed to the Ministerial Advisory Council on Child Protection by Hon Robyn McSweeney. They obviously had many conversations, including conversations about the Redress scheme and the like. On the day in July 2009 when the minister announced that the maximum payment would be reduced from $80 000 to $45 000 and the other changes which were outlined by the Attorney General this morning and which I have just repeated, Michelle Stubbs rang Hon Robyn McSweeney. She made contact with Hon Robyn McSweeney’s office and left a message. Hon Robyn McSweeney, the minister, dutifully returned that call and they had a lengthy conversation. Understandably, Michelle Stubbs was upset, she was emotional, and the conversation went on for some time. They know each other well. It was Michelle Stubbs who rang the minister to discuss the issue. She was on the advisory council; she knew what was going on. So to come in here and accuse, as the member for Rockingham did — Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : No, you have to be big enough and man enough to take it now. This is a test of all of you now. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the first time today. Member for Kwinana, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Leader of the Opposition, do you have a supplementary question? Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I am still — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen, I am formally going to call you to order for the first time today. You have a bit to make up, member for Girrawheen. Mr P.C. Tinley interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Willagee, just for the form, I call you to order as well. Mr C.J. BARNETT : It was Michelle Stubbs who called the minister’s office to try to persuade the minister to not reduce the maximum payment. That is clear from her letter today. The minister returned her call, later in the day, and they had a quite lengthy conversation. As I understand it, they talked about the scheme. Point number one: Michelle Stubbs contacted the minister, not the other way around. Point number two: I hope that the member for Rockingham is man enough to apologise, because Hon Robyn McSweeney did not ring Michelle Stubbs to “heavy” her, which he accused her of in this Parliament and which is on the record of this Parliament. I hope he is man enough to apologise to the minister; if not in here, when he sees her in the building. Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : The final point—by way of interjection!—is that Robyn McSweeney said, in the context of a lengthy conversation in which Michelle was extremely emotional, and understandably so, that she did use words along the lines of “let it go through to the keeper”, but that is very different from the accusation that the member for Rockingham made; namely, that the minister got on the phone and “heavied” her. The other accusation made by — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Willagee, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Midland, I formally call you to order for the second time today. I am not particularly interested in being continually on my feet formally calling members to order. It is not something that I want to do on a daily basis, let alone on a minute-by-minute basis! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I will conclude. The question had an implied accusation from the Leader of the Opposition that I and my office had in some way encouraged or got Robyn McSweeney to ring up Michelle Stubbs and “heavy” her. That was the tone of the question. I will tell the Leader of the Opposition that he might do that, the Labor Party might do that, but I do not!
Mr C.J. BARNETT : I have never, Mr Speaker, accused Michelle Stubbs of lying—ever—have I? I actually regard her as a friend. Never ever have I said that. You should withdraw and apologise. The SPEAKER : We have been through some of this this morning and some of you know where you are with it at this point. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I know Michelle Stubbs reasonably well. I have a great deal of respect and admiration for her. I like her as a person, and I fully recognise the incredible hardship that she suffered. No-one should doubt that, and certainly not people who know Michelle. Michelle Stubbs was appointed to the Ministerial Advisory Council on Child Protection by Hon Robyn McSweeney. They obviously had many conversations, including conversations about the Redress scheme and the like. On the day in July 2009 when the minister announced that the maximum payment would be reduced from $80 000 to $45 000 and the other changes which were outlined by the Attorney General this morning and which I have just repeated, Michelle Stubbs rang Hon Robyn McSweeney. She made contact with Hon Robyn McSweeney’s office and left a message. Hon Robyn McSweeney, the minister, dutifully returned that call and they had a lengthy conversation. Understandably, Michelle Stubbs was upset, she was emotional, and the conversation went on for some time. They know each other well. It was Michelle Stubbs who rang the minister to discuss the issue. She was on the advisory council; she knew what was going on. So to come in here and accuse, as the member for Rockingham did — Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : No, you have to be big enough and man enough to take it now. This is a test of all of you now. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the first time today. Member for Kwinana, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Leader of the Opposition, do you have a supplementary question? Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I am still — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen, I am formally going to call you to order for the first time today. You have a bit to make up, member for Girrawheen. Mr P.C. Tinley interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Willagee, just for the form, I call you to order as well. Mr C.J. BARNETT : It was Michelle Stubbs who called the minister’s office to try to persuade the minister to not reduce the maximum payment. That is clear from her letter today. The minister returned her call, later in the day, and they had a quite lengthy conversation. As I understand it, they talked about the scheme. Point number one: Michelle Stubbs contacted the minister, not the other way around. Point number two: I hope that the member for Rockingham is man enough to apologise, because Hon Robyn McSweeney did not ring Michelle Stubbs to “heavy” her, which he accused her of in this Parliament and which is on the record of this Parliament. I hope he is man enough to apologise to the minister; if not in here, when he sees her in the building. Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : The final point—by way of interjection!—is that Robyn McSweeney said, in the context of a lengthy conversation in which Michelle was extremely emotional, and understandably so, that she did use words along the lines of “let it go through to the keeper”, but that is very different from the accusation that the member for Rockingham made; namely, that the minister got on the phone and “heavied” her. The other accusation made by — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Willagee, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Midland, I formally call you to order for the second time today. I am not particularly interested in being continually on my feet formally calling members to order. It is not something that I want to do on a daily basis, let alone on a minute-by-minute basis! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I will conclude. The question had an implied accusation from the Leader of the Opposition that I and my office had in some way encouraged or got Robyn McSweeney to ring up Michelle Stubbs and “heavy” her. That was the tone of the question. I will tell the Leader of the Opposition that he might do that, the Labor Party might do that, but I do not!
The SPEAKER : We have been through some of this this morning and some of you know where you are with it at this point. Mr C.J. BARNETT : I know Michelle Stubbs reasonably well. I have a great deal of respect and admiration for her. I like her as a person, and I fully recognise the incredible hardship that she suffered. No-one should doubt that, and certainly not people who know Michelle. Michelle Stubbs was appointed to the Ministerial Advisory Council on Child Protection by Hon Robyn McSweeney. They obviously had many conversations, including conversations about the Redress scheme and the like. On the day in July 2009 when the minister announced that the maximum payment would be reduced from $80 000 to $45 000 and the other changes which were outlined by the Attorney General this morning and which I have just repeated, Michelle Stubbs rang Hon Robyn McSweeney. She made contact with Hon Robyn McSweeney’s office and left a message. Hon Robyn McSweeney, the minister, dutifully returned that call and they had a lengthy conversation. Understandably, Michelle Stubbs was upset, she was emotional, and the conversation went on for some time. They know each other well. It was Michelle Stubbs who rang the minister to discuss the issue. She was on the advisory council; she knew what was going on. So to come in here and accuse, as the member for Rockingham did — Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : No, you have to be big enough and man enough to take it now. This is a test of all of you now. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the first time today. Member for Kwinana, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Leader of the Opposition, do you have a supplementary question? Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I am still — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen, I am formally going to call you to order for the first time today. You have a bit to make up, member for Girrawheen. Mr P.C. Tinley interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Willagee, just for the form, I call you to order as well. Mr C.J. BARNETT : It was Michelle Stubbs who called the minister’s office to try to persuade the minister to not reduce the maximum payment. That is clear from her letter today. The minister returned her call, later in the day, and they had a quite lengthy conversation. As I understand it, they talked about the scheme. Point number one: Michelle Stubbs contacted the minister, not the other way around. Point number two: I hope that the member for Rockingham is man enough to apologise, because Hon Robyn McSweeney did not ring Michelle Stubbs to “heavy” her, which he accused her of in this Parliament and which is on the record of this Parliament. I hope he is man enough to apologise to the minister; if not in here, when he sees her in the building. Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : The final point—by way of interjection!—is that Robyn McSweeney said, in the context of a lengthy conversation in which Michelle was extremely emotional, and understandably so, that she did use words along the lines of “let it go through to the keeper”, but that is very different from the accusation that the member for Rockingham made; namely, that the minister got on the phone and “heavied” her. The other accusation made by — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Willagee, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Midland, I formally call you to order for the second time today. I am not particularly interested in being continually on my feet formally calling members to order. It is not something that I want to do on a daily basis, let alone on a minute-by-minute basis! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I will conclude. The question had an implied accusation from the Leader of the Opposition that I and my office had in some way encouraged or got Robyn McSweeney to ring up Michelle Stubbs and “heavy” her. That was the tone of the question. I will tell the Leader of the Opposition that he might do that, the Labor Party might do that, but I do not!
Mr C.J. BARNETT : I know Michelle Stubbs reasonably well. I have a great deal of respect and admiration for her. I like her as a person, and I fully recognise the incredible hardship that she suffered. No-one should doubt that, and certainly not people who know Michelle. Michelle Stubbs was appointed to the Ministerial Advisory Council on Child Protection by Hon Robyn McSweeney. They obviously had many conversations, including conversations about the Redress scheme and the like. On the day in July 2009 when the minister announced that the maximum payment would be reduced from $80 000 to $45 000 and the other changes which were outlined by the Attorney General this morning and which I have just repeated, Michelle Stubbs rang Hon Robyn McSweeney. She made contact with Hon Robyn McSweeney’s office and left a message. Hon Robyn McSweeney, the minister, dutifully returned that call and they had a lengthy conversation. Understandably, Michelle Stubbs was upset, she was emotional, and the conversation went on for some time. They know each other well. It was Michelle Stubbs who rang the minister to discuss the issue. She was on the advisory council; she knew what was going on. So to come in here and accuse, as the member for Rockingham did — Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : No, you have to be big enough and man enough to take it now. This is a test of all of you now. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the first time today. Member for Kwinana, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Leader of the Opposition, do you have a supplementary question? Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I am still — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen, I am formally going to call you to order for the first time today. You have a bit to make up, member for Girrawheen. Mr P.C. Tinley interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Willagee, just for the form, I call you to order as well. Mr C.J. BARNETT : It was Michelle Stubbs who called the minister’s office to try to persuade the minister to not reduce the maximum payment. That is clear from her letter today. The minister returned her call, later in the day, and they had a quite lengthy conversation. As I understand it, they talked about the scheme. Point number one: Michelle Stubbs contacted the minister, not the other way around. Point number two: I hope that the member for Rockingham is man enough to apologise, because Hon Robyn McSweeney did not ring Michelle Stubbs to “heavy” her, which he accused her of in this Parliament and which is on the record of this Parliament. I hope he is man enough to apologise to the minister; if not in here, when he sees her in the building. Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : The final point—by way of interjection!—is that Robyn McSweeney said, in the context of a lengthy conversation in which Michelle was extremely emotional, and understandably so, that she did use words along the lines of “let it go through to the keeper”, but that is very different from the accusation that the member for Rockingham made; namely, that the minister got on the phone and “heavied” her. The other accusation made by — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Willagee, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Midland, I formally call you to order for the second time today. I am not particularly interested in being continually on my feet formally calling members to order. It is not something that I want to do on a daily basis, let alone on a minute-by-minute basis! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I will conclude. The question had an implied accusation from the Leader of the Opposition that I and my office had in some way encouraged or got Robyn McSweeney to ring up Michelle Stubbs and “heavy” her. That was the tone of the question. I will tell the Leader of the Opposition that he might do that, the Labor Party might do that, but I do not!
Michelle Stubbs was appointed to the Ministerial Advisory Council on Child Protection by Hon Robyn McSweeney. They obviously had many conversations, including conversations about the Redress scheme and the like. On the day in July 2009 when the minister announced that the maximum payment would be reduced from $80 000 to $45 000 and the other changes which were outlined by the Attorney General this morning and which I have just repeated, Michelle Stubbs rang Hon Robyn McSweeney. She made contact with Hon Robyn McSweeney’s office and left a message. Hon Robyn McSweeney, the minister, dutifully returned that call and they had a lengthy conversation. Understandably, Michelle Stubbs was upset, she was emotional, and the conversation went on for some time. They know each other well. It was Michelle Stubbs who rang the minister to discuss the issue. She was on the advisory council; she knew what was going on. So to come in here and accuse, as the member for Rockingham did — Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : No, you have to be big enough and man enough to take it now. This is a test of all of you now. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the first time today. Member for Kwinana, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Leader of the Opposition, do you have a supplementary question? Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I am still — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen, I am formally going to call you to order for the first time today. You have a bit to make up, member for Girrawheen. Mr P.C. Tinley interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Willagee, just for the form, I call you to order as well. Mr C.J. BARNETT : It was Michelle Stubbs who called the minister’s office to try to persuade the minister to not reduce the maximum payment. That is clear from her letter today. The minister returned her call, later in the day, and they had a quite lengthy conversation. As I understand it, they talked about the scheme. Point number one: Michelle Stubbs contacted the minister, not the other way around. Point number two: I hope that the member for Rockingham is man enough to apologise, because Hon Robyn McSweeney did not ring Michelle Stubbs to “heavy” her, which he accused her of in this Parliament and which is on the record of this Parliament. I hope he is man enough to apologise to the minister; if not in here, when he sees her in the building. Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : The final point—by way of interjection!—is that Robyn McSweeney said, in the context of a lengthy conversation in which Michelle was extremely emotional, and understandably so, that she did use words along the lines of “let it go through to the keeper”, but that is very different from the accusation that the member for Rockingham made; namely, that the minister got on the phone and “heavied” her. The other accusation made by — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Willagee, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Midland, I formally call you to order for the second time today. I am not particularly interested in being continually on my feet formally calling members to order. It is not something that I want to do on a daily basis, let alone on a minute-by-minute basis! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I will conclude. The question had an implied accusation from the Leader of the Opposition that I and my office had in some way encouraged or got Robyn McSweeney to ring up Michelle Stubbs and “heavy” her. That was the tone of the question. I will tell the Leader of the Opposition that he might do that, the Labor Party might do that, but I do not!
Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : No, you have to be big enough and man enough to take it now. This is a test of all of you now. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the first time today. Member for Kwinana, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Leader of the Opposition, do you have a supplementary question? Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I am still — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen, I am formally going to call you to order for the first time today. You have a bit to make up, member for Girrawheen. Mr P.C. Tinley interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Willagee, just for the form, I call you to order as well. Mr C.J. BARNETT : It was Michelle Stubbs who called the minister’s office to try to persuade the minister to not reduce the maximum payment. That is clear from her letter today. The minister returned her call, later in the day, and they had a quite lengthy conversation. As I understand it, they talked about the scheme. Point number one: Michelle Stubbs contacted the minister, not the other way around. Point number two: I hope that the member for Rockingham is man enough to apologise, because Hon Robyn McSweeney did not ring Michelle Stubbs to “heavy” her, which he accused her of in this Parliament and which is on the record of this Parliament. I hope he is man enough to apologise to the minister; if not in here, when he sees her in the building. Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : The final point—by way of interjection!—is that Robyn McSweeney said, in the context of a lengthy conversation in which Michelle was extremely emotional, and understandably so, that she did use words along the lines of “let it go through to the keeper”, but that is very different from the accusation that the member for Rockingham made; namely, that the minister got on the phone and “heavied” her. The other accusation made by — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Willagee, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Midland, I formally call you to order for the second time today. I am not particularly interested in being continually on my feet formally calling members to order. It is not something that I want to do on a daily basis, let alone on a minute-by-minute basis! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I will conclude. The question had an implied accusation from the Leader of the Opposition that I and my office had in some way encouraged or got Robyn McSweeney to ring up Michelle Stubbs and “heavy” her. That was the tone of the question. I will tell the Leader of the Opposition that he might do that, the Labor Party might do that, but I do not!
Mr C.J. BARNETT : No, you have to be big enough and man enough to take it now. This is a test of all of you now. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the first time today. Member for Kwinana, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Leader of the Opposition, do you have a supplementary question? Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I am still — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen, I am formally going to call you to order for the first time today. You have a bit to make up, member for Girrawheen. Mr P.C. Tinley interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Willagee, just for the form, I call you to order as well. Mr C.J. BARNETT : It was Michelle Stubbs who called the minister’s office to try to persuade the minister to not reduce the maximum payment. That is clear from her letter today. The minister returned her call, later in the day, and they had a quite lengthy conversation. As I understand it, they talked about the scheme. Point number one: Michelle Stubbs contacted the minister, not the other way around. Point number two: I hope that the member for Rockingham is man enough to apologise, because Hon Robyn McSweeney did not ring Michelle Stubbs to “heavy” her, which he accused her of in this Parliament and which is on the record of this Parliament. I hope he is man enough to apologise to the minister; if not in here, when he sees her in the building. Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : The final point—by way of interjection!—is that Robyn McSweeney said, in the context of a lengthy conversation in which Michelle was extremely emotional, and understandably so, that she did use words along the lines of “let it go through to the keeper”, but that is very different from the accusation that the member for Rockingham made; namely, that the minister got on the phone and “heavied” her. The other accusation made by — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Willagee, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Midland, I formally call you to order for the second time today. I am not particularly interested in being continually on my feet formally calling members to order. It is not something that I want to do on a daily basis, let alone on a minute-by-minute basis! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I will conclude. The question had an implied accusation from the Leader of the Opposition that I and my office had in some way encouraged or got Robyn McSweeney to ring up Michelle Stubbs and “heavy” her. That was the tone of the question. I will tell the Leader of the Opposition that he might do that, the Labor Party might do that, but I do not!
Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the first time today. Member for Kwinana, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Leader of the Opposition, do you have a supplementary question? Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I am still — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen, I am formally going to call you to order for the first time today. You have a bit to make up, member for Girrawheen. Mr P.C. Tinley interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Willagee, just for the form, I call you to order as well. Mr C.J. BARNETT : It was Michelle Stubbs who called the minister’s office to try to persuade the minister to not reduce the maximum payment. That is clear from her letter today. The minister returned her call, later in the day, and they had a quite lengthy conversation. As I understand it, they talked about the scheme. Point number one: Michelle Stubbs contacted the minister, not the other way around. Point number two: I hope that the member for Rockingham is man enough to apologise, because Hon Robyn McSweeney did not ring Michelle Stubbs to “heavy” her, which he accused her of in this Parliament and which is on the record of this Parliament. I hope he is man enough to apologise to the minister; if not in here, when he sees her in the building. Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : The final point—by way of interjection!—is that Robyn McSweeney said, in the context of a lengthy conversation in which Michelle was extremely emotional, and understandably so, that she did use words along the lines of “let it go through to the keeper”, but that is very different from the accusation that the member for Rockingham made; namely, that the minister got on the phone and “heavied” her. The other accusation made by — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Willagee, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Midland, I formally call you to order for the second time today. I am not particularly interested in being continually on my feet formally calling members to order. It is not something that I want to do on a daily basis, let alone on a minute-by-minute basis! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I will conclude. The question had an implied accusation from the Leader of the Opposition that I and my office had in some way encouraged or got Robyn McSweeney to ring up Michelle Stubbs and “heavy” her. That was the tone of the question. I will tell the Leader of the Opposition that he might do that, the Labor Party might do that, but I do not!
The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the first time today. Member for Kwinana, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Leader of the Opposition, do you have a supplementary question? Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I am still — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen, I am formally going to call you to order for the first time today. You have a bit to make up, member for Girrawheen. Mr P.C. Tinley interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Willagee, just for the form, I call you to order as well. Mr C.J. BARNETT : It was Michelle Stubbs who called the minister’s office to try to persuade the minister to not reduce the maximum payment. That is clear from her letter today. The minister returned her call, later in the day, and they had a quite lengthy conversation. As I understand it, they talked about the scheme. Point number one: Michelle Stubbs contacted the minister, not the other way around. Point number two: I hope that the member for Rockingham is man enough to apologise, because Hon Robyn McSweeney did not ring Michelle Stubbs to “heavy” her, which he accused her of in this Parliament and which is on the record of this Parliament. I hope he is man enough to apologise to the minister; if not in here, when he sees her in the building. Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : The final point—by way of interjection!—is that Robyn McSweeney said, in the context of a lengthy conversation in which Michelle was extremely emotional, and understandably so, that she did use words along the lines of “let it go through to the keeper”, but that is very different from the accusation that the member for Rockingham made; namely, that the minister got on the phone and “heavied” her. The other accusation made by — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Willagee, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Midland, I formally call you to order for the second time today. I am not particularly interested in being continually on my feet formally calling members to order. It is not something that I want to do on a daily basis, let alone on a minute-by-minute basis! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I will conclude. The question had an implied accusation from the Leader of the Opposition that I and my office had in some way encouraged or got Robyn McSweeney to ring up Michelle Stubbs and “heavy” her. That was the tone of the question. I will tell the Leader of the Opposition that he might do that, the Labor Party might do that, but I do not!
Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I am still — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen, I am formally going to call you to order for the first time today. You have a bit to make up, member for Girrawheen. Mr P.C. Tinley interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Willagee, just for the form, I call you to order as well. Mr C.J. BARNETT : It was Michelle Stubbs who called the minister’s office to try to persuade the minister to not reduce the maximum payment. That is clear from her letter today. The minister returned her call, later in the day, and they had a quite lengthy conversation. As I understand it, they talked about the scheme. Point number one: Michelle Stubbs contacted the minister, not the other way around. Point number two: I hope that the member for Rockingham is man enough to apologise, because Hon Robyn McSweeney did not ring Michelle Stubbs to “heavy” her, which he accused her of in this Parliament and which is on the record of this Parliament. I hope he is man enough to apologise to the minister; if not in here, when he sees her in the building. Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : The final point—by way of interjection!—is that Robyn McSweeney said, in the context of a lengthy conversation in which Michelle was extremely emotional, and understandably so, that she did use words along the lines of “let it go through to the keeper”, but that is very different from the accusation that the member for Rockingham made; namely, that the minister got on the phone and “heavied” her. The other accusation made by — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Willagee, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Midland, I formally call you to order for the second time today. I am not particularly interested in being continually on my feet formally calling members to order. It is not something that I want to do on a daily basis, let alone on a minute-by-minute basis! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I will conclude. The question had an implied accusation from the Leader of the Opposition that I and my office had in some way encouraged or got Robyn McSweeney to ring up Michelle Stubbs and “heavy” her. That was the tone of the question. I will tell the Leader of the Opposition that he might do that, the Labor Party might do that, but I do not!
Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen, I am formally going to call you to order for the first time today. You have a bit to make up, member for Girrawheen. Mr P.C. Tinley interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Willagee, just for the form, I call you to order as well. Mr C.J. BARNETT : It was Michelle Stubbs who called the minister’s office to try to persuade the minister to not reduce the maximum payment. That is clear from her letter today. The minister returned her call, later in the day, and they had a quite lengthy conversation. As I understand it, they talked about the scheme. Point number one: Michelle Stubbs contacted the minister, not the other way around. Point number two: I hope that the member for Rockingham is man enough to apologise, because Hon Robyn McSweeney did not ring Michelle Stubbs to “heavy” her, which he accused her of in this Parliament and which is on the record of this Parliament. I hope he is man enough to apologise to the minister; if not in here, when he sees her in the building. Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : The final point—by way of interjection!—is that Robyn McSweeney said, in the context of a lengthy conversation in which Michelle was extremely emotional, and understandably so, that she did use words along the lines of “let it go through to the keeper”, but that is very different from the accusation that the member for Rockingham made; namely, that the minister got on the phone and “heavied” her. The other accusation made by — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Willagee, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Midland, I formally call you to order for the second time today. I am not particularly interested in being continually on my feet formally calling members to order. It is not something that I want to do on a daily basis, let alone on a minute-by-minute basis! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I will conclude. The question had an implied accusation from the Leader of the Opposition that I and my office had in some way encouraged or got Robyn McSweeney to ring up Michelle Stubbs and “heavy” her. That was the tone of the question. I will tell the Leader of the Opposition that he might do that, the Labor Party might do that, but I do not!
The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen, I am formally going to call you to order for the first time today. You have a bit to make up, member for Girrawheen. Mr P.C. Tinley interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Willagee, just for the form, I call you to order as well. Mr C.J. BARNETT : It was Michelle Stubbs who called the minister’s office to try to persuade the minister to not reduce the maximum payment. That is clear from her letter today. The minister returned her call, later in the day, and they had a quite lengthy conversation. As I understand it, they talked about the scheme. Point number one: Michelle Stubbs contacted the minister, not the other way around. Point number two: I hope that the member for Rockingham is man enough to apologise, because Hon Robyn McSweeney did not ring Michelle Stubbs to “heavy” her, which he accused her of in this Parliament and which is on the record of this Parliament. I hope he is man enough to apologise to the minister; if not in here, when he sees her in the building. Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : The final point—by way of interjection!—is that Robyn McSweeney said, in the context of a lengthy conversation in which Michelle was extremely emotional, and understandably so, that she did use words along the lines of “let it go through to the keeper”, but that is very different from the accusation that the member for Rockingham made; namely, that the minister got on the phone and “heavied” her. The other accusation made by — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Willagee, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Midland, I formally call you to order for the second time today. I am not particularly interested in being continually on my feet formally calling members to order. It is not something that I want to do on a daily basis, let alone on a minute-by-minute basis! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I will conclude. The question had an implied accusation from the Leader of the Opposition that I and my office had in some way encouraged or got Robyn McSweeney to ring up Michelle Stubbs and “heavy” her. That was the tone of the question. I will tell the Leader of the Opposition that he might do that, the Labor Party might do that, but I do not!
Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker — Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen, I am formally going to call you to order for the first time today. You have a bit to make up, member for Girrawheen. Mr P.C. Tinley interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Willagee, just for the form, I call you to order as well. Mr C.J. BARNETT : It was Michelle Stubbs who called the minister’s office to try to persuade the minister to not reduce the maximum payment. That is clear from her letter today. The minister returned her call, later in the day, and they had a quite lengthy conversation. As I understand it, they talked about the scheme. Point number one: Michelle Stubbs contacted the minister, not the other way around. Point number two: I hope that the member for Rockingham is man enough to apologise, because Hon Robyn McSweeney did not ring Michelle Stubbs to “heavy” her, which he accused her of in this Parliament and which is on the record of this Parliament. I hope he is man enough to apologise to the minister; if not in here, when he sees her in the building. Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : The final point—by way of interjection!—is that Robyn McSweeney said, in the context of a lengthy conversation in which Michelle was extremely emotional, and understandably so, that she did use words along the lines of “let it go through to the keeper”, but that is very different from the accusation that the member for Rockingham made; namely, that the minister got on the phone and “heavied” her. The other accusation made by — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Willagee, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Midland, I formally call you to order for the second time today. I am not particularly interested in being continually on my feet formally calling members to order. It is not something that I want to do on a daily basis, let alone on a minute-by-minute basis! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I will conclude. The question had an implied accusation from the Leader of the Opposition that I and my office had in some way encouraged or got Robyn McSweeney to ring up Michelle Stubbs and “heavy” her. That was the tone of the question. I will tell the Leader of the Opposition that he might do that, the Labor Party might do that, but I do not!
Ms M.M. Quirk : Did the minister say those words? The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen, I am formally going to call you to order for the first time today. You have a bit to make up, member for Girrawheen. Mr P.C. Tinley interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Willagee, just for the form, I call you to order as well. Mr C.J. BARNETT : It was Michelle Stubbs who called the minister’s office to try to persuade the minister to not reduce the maximum payment. That is clear from her letter today. The minister returned her call, later in the day, and they had a quite lengthy conversation. As I understand it, they talked about the scheme. Point number one: Michelle Stubbs contacted the minister, not the other way around. Point number two: I hope that the member for Rockingham is man enough to apologise, because Hon Robyn McSweeney did not ring Michelle Stubbs to “heavy” her, which he accused her of in this Parliament and which is on the record of this Parliament. I hope he is man enough to apologise to the minister; if not in here, when he sees her in the building. Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : The final point—by way of interjection!—is that Robyn McSweeney said, in the context of a lengthy conversation in which Michelle was extremely emotional, and understandably so, that she did use words along the lines of “let it go through to the keeper”, but that is very different from the accusation that the member for Rockingham made; namely, that the minister got on the phone and “heavied” her. The other accusation made by — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Willagee, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Midland, I formally call you to order for the second time today. I am not particularly interested in being continually on my feet formally calling members to order. It is not something that I want to do on a daily basis, let alone on a minute-by-minute basis! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I will conclude. The question had an implied accusation from the Leader of the Opposition that I and my office had in some way encouraged or got Robyn McSweeney to ring up Michelle Stubbs and “heavy” her. That was the tone of the question. I will tell the Leader of the Opposition that he might do that, the Labor Party might do that, but I do not!
The SPEAKER : Member for Girrawheen, I am formally going to call you to order for the first time today. You have a bit to make up, member for Girrawheen. Mr P.C. Tinley interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Willagee, just for the form, I call you to order as well. Mr C.J. BARNETT : It was Michelle Stubbs who called the minister’s office to try to persuade the minister to not reduce the maximum payment. That is clear from her letter today. The minister returned her call, later in the day, and they had a quite lengthy conversation. As I understand it, they talked about the scheme. Point number one: Michelle Stubbs contacted the minister, not the other way around. Point number two: I hope that the member for Rockingham is man enough to apologise, because Hon Robyn McSweeney did not ring Michelle Stubbs to “heavy” her, which he accused her of in this Parliament and which is on the record of this Parliament. I hope he is man enough to apologise to the minister; if not in here, when he sees her in the building. Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : The final point—by way of interjection!—is that Robyn McSweeney said, in the context of a lengthy conversation in which Michelle was extremely emotional, and understandably so, that she did use words along the lines of “let it go through to the keeper”, but that is very different from the accusation that the member for Rockingham made; namely, that the minister got on the phone and “heavied” her. The other accusation made by — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Willagee, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Midland, I formally call you to order for the second time today. I am not particularly interested in being continually on my feet formally calling members to order. It is not something that I want to do on a daily basis, let alone on a minute-by-minute basis! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I will conclude. The question had an implied accusation from the Leader of the Opposition that I and my office had in some way encouraged or got Robyn McSweeney to ring up Michelle Stubbs and “heavy” her. That was the tone of the question. I will tell the Leader of the Opposition that he might do that, the Labor Party might do that, but I do not!
Mr P.C. Tinley interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Willagee, just for the form, I call you to order as well. Mr C.J. BARNETT : It was Michelle Stubbs who called the minister’s office to try to persuade the minister to not reduce the maximum payment. That is clear from her letter today. The minister returned her call, later in the day, and they had a quite lengthy conversation. As I understand it, they talked about the scheme. Point number one: Michelle Stubbs contacted the minister, not the other way around. Point number two: I hope that the member for Rockingham is man enough to apologise, because Hon Robyn McSweeney did not ring Michelle Stubbs to “heavy” her, which he accused her of in this Parliament and which is on the record of this Parliament. I hope he is man enough to apologise to the minister; if not in here, when he sees her in the building. Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : The final point—by way of interjection!—is that Robyn McSweeney said, in the context of a lengthy conversation in which Michelle was extremely emotional, and understandably so, that she did use words along the lines of “let it go through to the keeper”, but that is very different from the accusation that the member for Rockingham made; namely, that the minister got on the phone and “heavied” her. The other accusation made by — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Willagee, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Midland, I formally call you to order for the second time today. I am not particularly interested in being continually on my feet formally calling members to order. It is not something that I want to do on a daily basis, let alone on a minute-by-minute basis! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I will conclude. The question had an implied accusation from the Leader of the Opposition that I and my office had in some way encouraged or got Robyn McSweeney to ring up Michelle Stubbs and “heavy” her. That was the tone of the question. I will tell the Leader of the Opposition that he might do that, the Labor Party might do that, but I do not!
The SPEAKER : Member for Willagee, just for the form, I call you to order as well. Mr C.J. BARNETT : It was Michelle Stubbs who called the minister’s office to try to persuade the minister to not reduce the maximum payment. That is clear from her letter today. The minister returned her call, later in the day, and they had a quite lengthy conversation. As I understand it, they talked about the scheme. Point number one: Michelle Stubbs contacted the minister, not the other way around. Point number two: I hope that the member for Rockingham is man enough to apologise, because Hon Robyn McSweeney did not ring Michelle Stubbs to “heavy” her, which he accused her of in this Parliament and which is on the record of this Parliament. I hope he is man enough to apologise to the minister; if not in here, when he sees her in the building. Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : The final point—by way of interjection!—is that Robyn McSweeney said, in the context of a lengthy conversation in which Michelle was extremely emotional, and understandably so, that she did use words along the lines of “let it go through to the keeper”, but that is very different from the accusation that the member for Rockingham made; namely, that the minister got on the phone and “heavied” her. The other accusation made by — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Willagee, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Midland, I formally call you to order for the second time today. I am not particularly interested in being continually on my feet formally calling members to order. It is not something that I want to do on a daily basis, let alone on a minute-by-minute basis! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I will conclude. The question had an implied accusation from the Leader of the Opposition that I and my office had in some way encouraged or got Robyn McSweeney to ring up Michelle Stubbs and “heavy” her. That was the tone of the question. I will tell the Leader of the Opposition that he might do that, the Labor Party might do that, but I do not!
Mr C.J. BARNETT : It was Michelle Stubbs who called the minister’s office to try to persuade the minister to not reduce the maximum payment. That is clear from her letter today. The minister returned her call, later in the day, and they had a quite lengthy conversation. As I understand it, they talked about the scheme. Point number one: Michelle Stubbs contacted the minister, not the other way around. Point number two: I hope that the member for Rockingham is man enough to apologise, because Hon Robyn McSweeney did not ring Michelle Stubbs to “heavy” her, which he accused her of in this Parliament and which is on the record of this Parliament. I hope he is man enough to apologise to the minister; if not in here, when he sees her in the building. Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : The final point—by way of interjection!—is that Robyn McSweeney said, in the context of a lengthy conversation in which Michelle was extremely emotional, and understandably so, that she did use words along the lines of “let it go through to the keeper”, but that is very different from the accusation that the member for Rockingham made; namely, that the minister got on the phone and “heavied” her. The other accusation made by — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Willagee, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Midland, I formally call you to order for the second time today. I am not particularly interested in being continually on my feet formally calling members to order. It is not something that I want to do on a daily basis, let alone on a minute-by-minute basis! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I will conclude. The question had an implied accusation from the Leader of the Opposition that I and my office had in some way encouraged or got Robyn McSweeney to ring up Michelle Stubbs and “heavy” her. That was the tone of the question. I will tell the Leader of the Opposition that he might do that, the Labor Party might do that, but I do not!
Several members interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT : The final point—by way of interjection!—is that Robyn McSweeney said, in the context of a lengthy conversation in which Michelle was extremely emotional, and understandably so, that she did use words along the lines of “let it go through to the keeper”, but that is very different from the accusation that the member for Rockingham made; namely, that the minister got on the phone and “heavied” her. The other accusation made by — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Willagee, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Midland, I formally call you to order for the second time today. I am not particularly interested in being continually on my feet formally calling members to order. It is not something that I want to do on a daily basis, let alone on a minute-by-minute basis! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I will conclude. The question had an implied accusation from the Leader of the Opposition that I and my office had in some way encouraged or got Robyn McSweeney to ring up Michelle Stubbs and “heavy” her. That was the tone of the question. I will tell the Leader of the Opposition that he might do that, the Labor Party might do that, but I do not!
Mr C.J. BARNETT : The final point—by way of interjection!—is that Robyn McSweeney said, in the context of a lengthy conversation in which Michelle was extremely emotional, and understandably so, that she did use words along the lines of “let it go through to the keeper”, but that is very different from the accusation that the member for Rockingham made; namely, that the minister got on the phone and “heavied” her. The other accusation made by — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Willagee, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Midland, I formally call you to order for the second time today. I am not particularly interested in being continually on my feet formally calling members to order. It is not something that I want to do on a daily basis, let alone on a minute-by-minute basis! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I will conclude. The question had an implied accusation from the Leader of the Opposition that I and my office had in some way encouraged or got Robyn McSweeney to ring up Michelle Stubbs and “heavy” her. That was the tone of the question. I will tell the Leader of the Opposition that he might do that, the Labor Party might do that, but I do not!
Several members interjected. The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Willagee, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Midland, I formally call you to order for the second time today. I am not particularly interested in being continually on my feet formally calling members to order. It is not something that I want to do on a daily basis, let alone on a minute-by-minute basis! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I will conclude. The question had an implied accusation from the Leader of the Opposition that I and my office had in some way encouraged or got Robyn McSweeney to ring up Michelle Stubbs and “heavy” her. That was the tone of the question. I will tell the Leader of the Opposition that he might do that, the Labor Party might do that, but I do not!
The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Willagee, I formally call you to order for the second time today. Member for Midland, I formally call you to order for the second time today. I am not particularly interested in being continually on my feet formally calling members to order. It is not something that I want to do on a daily basis, let alone on a minute-by-minute basis! Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I will conclude. The question had an implied accusation from the Leader of the Opposition that I and my office had in some way encouraged or got Robyn McSweeney to ring up Michelle Stubbs and “heavy” her. That was the tone of the question. I will tell the Leader of the Opposition that he might do that, the Labor Party might do that, but I do not!
Mr C.J. BARNETT : Mr Speaker, I will conclude. The question had an implied accusation from the Leader of the Opposition that I and my office had in some way encouraged or got Robyn McSweeney to ring up Michelle Stubbs and “heavy” her. That was the tone of the question. I will tell the Leader of the Opposition that he might do that, the Labor Party might do that, but I do not!
Explore WA Government Data
Search the full archive in the free dashboard, or query programmatically via API.
Explore more
Government Gazette
Appointments, regulatory notices, planning changes.
Hansard
Debates, questions, speeches and sentiment.
Tabled Papers
Reports and documents tabled in Parliament.
Committees
Committee profiles and recent reports.
Regulations
Subsidiary legislation with filters and summaries.
Bills
Proposed laws and parliamentary progress.
Acts
Current WA legislation and summaries.
Explanatory Memoranda
Bills with EMs (text/PDF) available.
Members
MP profiles, party breakdown and rankings.
Pollie Rankings
Data-driven rankings across 19 categories.
Amendment Chains
Track how schemes and regulations evolve over time.