❓ Dr. Nahan questions Premier McGowan's stance on electronic gaming (Trackside) given his previous opposition, citing concerns about social ills like gambling addiction. McGowan defends his position by contrasting Trackside with poker machines and criticising past proposals to expand poker machines in WA.
AnsweredQoN 750Legislative Assembly
QuestionView source ↗
TRACKSIDE — ELECTRONIC GAMING
750. Dr M.D. NAHAN to the Premier:
Only two years ago, with the prospect of electronic gaming
product Trackside coming to WA, the Premier said —
''It brings some of those
social ills, in particular gambling addiction and the like that we've
seen in New South Wales, Victoria, and Queensland now for decades to Western Australia.
''It is a very, very
disturbing development and I oppose it absolutely.''
Will the Premier inform the house why he is now in furious
disagreement with his former self?
750. Dr M.D. NAHAN to the Premier:
Only two years ago, with the prospect of electronic gaming
product Trackside coming to WA, the Premier said —
''It brings some of those
social ills, in particular gambling addiction and the like that we've
seen in New South Wales, Victoria, and Queensland now for decades to Western Australia.
''It is a very, very
disturbing development and I oppose it absolutely.''
Will the Premier inform the house why he is now in furious
disagreement with his former self?
AnswerView source ↗
Prior to answering that question, on behalf of the member for
Wanneroo, I welcome the staff and students from St Stephen's School in
Tapping here today.
On behalf of all MPs, I acknowledge and welcome the Girl
Guides Western Australia, who have taken over the Parliament today. They are
doing a terrific job assisting MPs, ministers and the like around the building
and learning about Parliament and showing that girls can do anything.
[Applause.]
Mr M. McGOWAN : Mr Speaker, back in 2016, you will
recall that then Minister for Racing and Gaming, Hon Colin Holt, suggested that
this state should spread poker machines and keno more widely around the Western
Australian community. I will give members a small history lesson. That follows
on from the former Liberal leader, Matt Birney, back in 2005, who also floated
the idea of poker machines coming in more broadly in Western Australia. On two
occasions during my political career, the Liberal Party and the National Party
have been suggesting that poker machines
should come into Western Australia. One of the great things about our state —
Dr M.D. Nahan interjected.
Mr M. McGOWAN : If I can
answer the question, we have that element of geographic distance from the
eastern states that allows us not to have some of those things. The most
stunning example of that is poker machines. We do not have the range of other
ills in the eastern states, but the one in particular that I think we all agree
on, at least on this side of the house, is poker machines.
Mr D.C. Nalder : What's
the difference?
Mr M. McGOWAN : I will answer
that. Back in June 2016, I was shocked when Hon Colin Holt came out and
suggested poker machines.
Several members interjected.
Ms M.J. Davies : You are
misleading the house.
Mr V.A. Catania : You are
misleading the house.
The SPEAKER : You are both
misleading the house. Leader of the National Party and the member for North
West Central, you do not shout. You have an opportunity to ask other questions
later.
Mr M. McGOWAN : The then
Premier, Colin Barnett, said that he did not support Colin Holt and those ideas
that Mr Holt had put forward.
Several members interjected.
Mr M. McGOWAN : Honestly, it
is very difficult to answer a question in here with this bunch.
The SPEAKER : Members, you
have got your point across. Just let the Premier finish his answer.
Mr M. McGOWAN : I was asked by
a range of journalists about the issues and I asked some questions about the
issues in here as well. Colin Barnett said that poker machines were not on the
agenda. I indicated that Labor did not support poker machines and that I did
not agree with Colin Holt either when he floated the idea. All my commentary on
this was based on long experience as someone who grew up in New South Wales and
saw poker machines and the evils that they promote. Someone who was the
Minister for Racing and Gaming for two years rejected poker machines outright
and rejected the expansion of gaming machines at the casino.
The member for Bateman asked me what
was the difference between Trackside and poker machines. Honestly, what a silly
question. I will answer it. I will give a lesson on that as well. Poker
machines do not require any decision-making on the part of the participant, bar
the investment. In clubs and pubs and the like across the eastern states,
people sit in front of screens drone-like, pressing a button. There is no
choice involved at all and no decision-making capacity. The difference between
a poker machine and a gaming machine —
Several members interjected.
The SPEAKER : Members, please;
it is just a wall of noise.
Mr M. McGOWAN : The difference
between a poker machine —
Several members interjected.
Mr M. McGOWAN : Honestly, Mr
Speaker! Let me explain it to members. A poker machine in the eastern states
requires people to make one decision to invest their money. People may well
invest $20 at the beginning. All they have to do is press a button to play the
game. Gaming machines, which are at the casino in Western Australia, are a little
unique in Australia these days —
Several members interjected.
Mr M. McGOWAN : Honestly, Mr
Speaker.
The SPEAKER : Premier, the
members on your own side are interjecting too. Let us get this answer out of
the way. The Leader of the Opposition can ask a supplementary. The Premier is
on his feet.
Mr M. McGOWAN : That is a poker
machine. That is what is in South Australia, Victoria, New South Wales, the ACT
and Queensland. In Western Australia, there are gaming machines at the casino.
A gaming machine is a machine on which people exercise some choice. They invest
some money and then they have to make further decisions in order to play the
game. That is what happens.
Mr S.K. L'Estrange interjected.
The SPEAKER : Excuse me, this is not a question and
answer session.
Mr M. McGOWAN : That is the difference between a gaming
machine and a poker machine. Simulated horseracing is, in effect, a horserace
on a screen in a TAB agency. It is the same as when people go into a TAB
agency, and there are 120 or so of them around Western Australia, and then
there are some pub TABs out there. People go in there, the race is on a screen,
they bet on it and they watch it. Simulated racing is a race on a screen in a TAB
involving what looks, to all intents and purposes, to be horses.
Mr D.C. Nalder : They are not.
Mr M. McGOWAN : The member is correct: they are not
horses; they are simulated horses.
Mr S.K. L'Estrange interjected.
The SPEAKER : Member for Churchlands, I let you go
three times. I call you to order for the first time.
Mr M. McGOWAN : To all intents and purposes, it is
exactly the same as a horserace. Anyone who understands the racing industry and
the business model of a TAB agent, a small business person, will understand
that that is what it is. It is not spreading it throughout the community. It is
not putting it into pubs and clubs or community organisations like poker
machines in the eastern states. It is merely offering a racing product in a TAB
agency.
Wanneroo, I welcome the staff and students from St Stephen's School in
Tapping here today.
On behalf of all MPs, I acknowledge and welcome the Girl
Guides Western Australia, who have taken over the Parliament today. They are
doing a terrific job assisting MPs, ministers and the like around the building
and learning about Parliament and showing that girls can do anything.
[Applause.]
Mr M. McGOWAN : Mr Speaker, back in 2016, you will
recall that then Minister for Racing and Gaming, Hon Colin Holt, suggested that
this state should spread poker machines and keno more widely around the Western
Australian community. I will give members a small history lesson. That follows
on from the former Liberal leader, Matt Birney, back in 2005, who also floated
the idea of poker machines coming in more broadly in Western Australia. On two
occasions during my political career, the Liberal Party and the National Party
have been suggesting that poker machines
should come into Western Australia. One of the great things about our state —
Dr M.D. Nahan interjected.
Mr M. McGOWAN : If I can
answer the question, we have that element of geographic distance from the
eastern states that allows us not to have some of those things. The most
stunning example of that is poker machines. We do not have the range of other
ills in the eastern states, but the one in particular that I think we all agree
on, at least on this side of the house, is poker machines.
Mr D.C. Nalder : What's
the difference?
Mr M. McGOWAN : I will answer
that. Back in June 2016, I was shocked when Hon Colin Holt came out and
suggested poker machines.
Several members interjected.
Ms M.J. Davies : You are
misleading the house.
Mr V.A. Catania : You are
misleading the house.
The SPEAKER : You are both
misleading the house. Leader of the National Party and the member for North
West Central, you do not shout. You have an opportunity to ask other questions
later.
Mr M. McGOWAN : The then
Premier, Colin Barnett, said that he did not support Colin Holt and those ideas
that Mr Holt had put forward.
Several members interjected.
Mr M. McGOWAN : Honestly, it
is very difficult to answer a question in here with this bunch.
The SPEAKER : Members, you
have got your point across. Just let the Premier finish his answer.
Mr M. McGOWAN : I was asked by
a range of journalists about the issues and I asked some questions about the
issues in here as well. Colin Barnett said that poker machines were not on the
agenda. I indicated that Labor did not support poker machines and that I did
not agree with Colin Holt either when he floated the idea. All my commentary on
this was based on long experience as someone who grew up in New South Wales and
saw poker machines and the evils that they promote. Someone who was the
Minister for Racing and Gaming for two years rejected poker machines outright
and rejected the expansion of gaming machines at the casino.
The member for Bateman asked me what
was the difference between Trackside and poker machines. Honestly, what a silly
question. I will answer it. I will give a lesson on that as well. Poker
machines do not require any decision-making on the part of the participant, bar
the investment. In clubs and pubs and the like across the eastern states,
people sit in front of screens drone-like, pressing a button. There is no
choice involved at all and no decision-making capacity. The difference between
a poker machine and a gaming machine —
Several members interjected.
The SPEAKER : Members, please;
it is just a wall of noise.
Mr M. McGOWAN : The difference
between a poker machine —
Several members interjected.
Mr M. McGOWAN : Honestly, Mr
Speaker! Let me explain it to members. A poker machine in the eastern states
requires people to make one decision to invest their money. People may well
invest $20 at the beginning. All they have to do is press a button to play the
game. Gaming machines, which are at the casino in Western Australia, are a little
unique in Australia these days —
Several members interjected.
Mr M. McGOWAN : Honestly, Mr
Speaker.
The SPEAKER : Premier, the
members on your own side are interjecting too. Let us get this answer out of
the way. The Leader of the Opposition can ask a supplementary. The Premier is
on his feet.
Mr M. McGOWAN : That is a poker
machine. That is what is in South Australia, Victoria, New South Wales, the ACT
and Queensland. In Western Australia, there are gaming machines at the casino.
A gaming machine is a machine on which people exercise some choice. They invest
some money and then they have to make further decisions in order to play the
game. That is what happens.
Mr S.K. L'Estrange interjected.
The SPEAKER : Excuse me, this is not a question and
answer session.
Mr M. McGOWAN : That is the difference between a gaming
machine and a poker machine. Simulated horseracing is, in effect, a horserace
on a screen in a TAB agency. It is the same as when people go into a TAB
agency, and there are 120 or so of them around Western Australia, and then
there are some pub TABs out there. People go in there, the race is on a screen,
they bet on it and they watch it. Simulated racing is a race on a screen in a TAB
involving what looks, to all intents and purposes, to be horses.
Mr D.C. Nalder : They are not.
Mr M. McGOWAN : The member is correct: they are not
horses; they are simulated horses.
Mr S.K. L'Estrange interjected.
The SPEAKER : Member for Churchlands, I let you go
three times. I call you to order for the first time.
Mr M. McGOWAN : To all intents and purposes, it is
exactly the same as a horserace. Anyone who understands the racing industry and
the business model of a TAB agent, a small business person, will understand
that that is what it is. It is not spreading it throughout the community. It is
not putting it into pubs and clubs or community organisations like poker
machines in the eastern states. It is merely offering a racing product in a TAB
agency.
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