❓ Mr. Cook questions the Minister for Health regarding pay and conditions for dental care assistants. The Minister defends the government's actions, referencing past issues and ongoing negotiations, while accusing the opposition of inaction and misrepresentation.
AnsweredQoN 435Legislative Assembly
QuestionView source ↗
DENTAL CARE ASSISTANTS
435. Mr R.H. COOK to the Minister for Health:
I refer to comments by the minister
in this place concerning dental care assistants. I quote —
The pay for the dental assistants was
very poor. In one case I remember making issue of the fact that the pay for the
cleaner in a dental clinic was going to be higher than what the dental
assistant received.
And —
the Department of Health is in
discussions with staff and unions to try to get an agreement on a significant
increase in salary that would make it more attractive to go into those
positions and obviate the need for a special annual bonus to make it more attractive
(1) Why has the
minister failed so comprehensively to provide dental care assistants with an
adequate pay increase?
(2) Are longer
hours, the loss of two public holidays and an extension of long service leave
eligibility from seven to 10 years the minister's idea of making their
profession more attractive?
435. Mr R.H. COOK to the Minister for Health:
I refer to comments by the minister
in this place concerning dental care assistants. I quote —
The pay for the dental assistants was
very poor. In one case I remember making issue of the fact that the pay for the
cleaner in a dental clinic was going to be higher than what the dental
assistant received.
And —
the Department of Health is in
discussions with staff and unions to try to get an agreement on a significant
increase in salary that would make it more attractive to go into those
positions and obviate the need for a special annual bonus to make it more attractive
(1) Why has the
minister failed so comprehensively to provide dental care assistants with an
adequate pay increase?
(2) Are longer
hours, the loss of two public holidays and an extension of long service leave
eligibility from seven to 10 years the minister's idea of making their
profession more attractive?
AnswerView source ↗
I thank the member for the question.
(1)–(2) I was disappointed to hear that the member
for Kwinana apparently said outside that I was criticising Jim McGinty, because
I was doing anything but that.
Mr R.H. Cook : No, you just made an excuse of everyone.
Dr K.D. HAMES : No. In fact, during my speech I praised Jim
McGinty for bringing in the $3 000 retention bonus. The member for Kwinana was
obviously not listening. Interestingly enough, I found another question to this
house from 9 April 2008. It was a question I asked the Minister for Health at
the time and states —
I
refer to the large number of dental health service workers who rallied outside
Parliament House today, many of whom now fill the public gallery. Their
placards read: ''dental services decay'', ''staff leaving
for the private sector'', ''less staff, less services'', ''no
staff, no services'' —
Mr A.P. O'Gorman interjected.
The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup!
Dr K.D. HAMES : Those people were in the gallery of the
day. The response from the minister at the time was —
I have in recent times spoken with both the Director General of the Department
of Health, Dr Peter Flett, and the Executive Director of Public Health, about
the significant need to expedite the work they are doing on this issue to
resolve the problem in order to be able to continue to provide the service.
That is what the
former government did—it had a talk to the director general to work out
what the need was, to say that it is a service that we need and to do something
about it. What did it do? It did not do anything.
Mr R.H. Cook : So what have you done? You've just
increased the wait list.
Dr K.D. HAMES : I will get to further questions. This is a
question from the member for Kwinana from May 2011. The member asked whether I
could guarantee to dentists and dental clinic assistants —
Mr P.B. Watson interjected.
The SPEAKER : Member for Albany!
Dr K.D. HAMES : Please! The question was —
(1) Can the minister provide any guarantee to
dentists and dental clinic assistants that the attraction and retention benefit
will continue?
(2) Does the minister acknowledge that
without the attraction and retention benefit these health care professionals
will have a pay freeze
(3)
Will the minister intervene to ensure that the attraction and retention benefit
is retained
I do not know that I answered that question at the time, but I have
certainly since answered yes. That is exactly the issue we were discussing out
there today.
Mr A.P. O'Gorman interjected.
Mr R.H. Cook : So they keep the ARB and lose all their
conditions associated with it.
Dr K.D. HAMES : People seem to be confused between two
issues.
The SPEAKER : Members!
Mr A.P. O'Gorman interjected.
The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup!
Dr K.D. HAMES : People seem to be getting confused between
two issues. One is the issue of wages for staff, which were negotiated with the
union and the members in 2010. An agreement was signed. Those increases in
wages are in place. Along with government wages policy, staff got a four per
cent increase in April. They will get another four per cent increase in July.
That is one side of the equation. The other side was what I committed to doing
as per the member's question. That is the issue before us today. That
is what we are offering the union today. It has nothing to do —
Mr R.H. Cook : You are making them surrender conditions.
Dr K.D. HAMES : I will get to that. It has nothing to do —
Several members interjected.
The SPEAKER : Take a seat, minister. Minister for Agriculture and Food, I call you
to order for the first time today. While I am on my feet, I formally call the
member for Joondalup to order for the first time today.
Dr K.D. HAMES : That is exactly what we have put in place.
To do that we have switched them from the category they were in to a new
category, so that the $3 000 that dental clinic assistants got as a bonus now
forms part of their base salary. When they get the four per cent increase next
year, instead of being on the pay that was without that bonus, they will be on
the pay that includes the bonus. There is a requirement for a couple of changes
to get it to match the exact level within the Department of Health, which
requires 38 hours' work a week instead of 37.5 hours, so an extra six
minutes a day. I think I actually said six hours outside, which got a bit of a
boo, but it is six minutes a day in additional work.
Mr A.P. O'Gorman interjected.
Dr K.D. HAMES : There is incessant interjection from one
person. I am trying to answer the member for Kwinana. Two days' long
service leave for new staff —
Mr A.P. O'Gorman : Ask them.
The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the second
time today.
Dr K.D. HAMES : There is a change with regard to the
accrual of long service leave, which again is for new staff. The members out
there put it to me, with a genuine belief, that their wages would go down. I
said to them that if they think they will go down, they should write to me
individually and I will answer them. If they do a collective pro forma letter
to me, then it will obviously have come from the union and I will answer to the
union instead and it can distribute my response. During a break I went back to
the Department of Health representative who is dealing with salaries and
conditions and said that everyone out there believed that their wages were
going down and asked whether the representative was absolutely certain that
that is not the case. I have before me a document that I will table that shows
that the salaries of dental clinic assistants will remain unchanged. It states
that for first-year dental clinic assistants the actual earning difference in
2011–12 will be 6.3 per cent—I will just do one column, as the
figures are the same for both columns. The actual earning difference for
first-year dental clinic assistants is 6.3 per cent, for second-year dental
clinic assistants it is a difference of 2.1 per cent, for third-year assistants
it is zero, for fourth-year assistants it is zero, for fifth-year assistants it
is 0.1 per cent and so on for sixth, seventh and eighth-year assistants. There
are increases. Not one of those is a decrease in actual salary. The actual
salary they will earn over a year —
Mr R.H. Cook : Once you factor in the loss of conditions,
it is a pay drop.
The SPEAKER : Member for Kwinana!
Dr K.D. HAMES : Those things are factored in and it is not.
I will table it.
Mr R.H. Cook : Once you factor in the loss of conditions
it is a loss.
Dr K.D. HAMES : It is not a loss.
Mr R.H. Cook : They are going backwards.
Dr K.D. HAMES : They are not going backwards. What we had
to do was to match their existing salaries —
Mr R.H. Cook : You are sending a clear message that you do
not value their service to the community.
The SPEAKER : Member for Kwinana, if you want a supplementary question, seek a
supplementary.
[See paper 5126.]
(1)–(2) I was disappointed to hear that the member
for Kwinana apparently said outside that I was criticising Jim McGinty, because
I was doing anything but that.
Mr R.H. Cook : No, you just made an excuse of everyone.
Dr K.D. HAMES : No. In fact, during my speech I praised Jim
McGinty for bringing in the $3 000 retention bonus. The member for Kwinana was
obviously not listening. Interestingly enough, I found another question to this
house from 9 April 2008. It was a question I asked the Minister for Health at
the time and states —
I
refer to the large number of dental health service workers who rallied outside
Parliament House today, many of whom now fill the public gallery. Their
placards read: ''dental services decay'', ''staff leaving
for the private sector'', ''less staff, less services'', ''no
staff, no services'' —
Mr A.P. O'Gorman interjected.
The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup!
Dr K.D. HAMES : Those people were in the gallery of the
day. The response from the minister at the time was —
I have in recent times spoken with both the Director General of the Department
of Health, Dr Peter Flett, and the Executive Director of Public Health, about
the significant need to expedite the work they are doing on this issue to
resolve the problem in order to be able to continue to provide the service.
That is what the
former government did—it had a talk to the director general to work out
what the need was, to say that it is a service that we need and to do something
about it. What did it do? It did not do anything.
Mr R.H. Cook : So what have you done? You've just
increased the wait list.
Dr K.D. HAMES : I will get to further questions. This is a
question from the member for Kwinana from May 2011. The member asked whether I
could guarantee to dentists and dental clinic assistants —
Mr P.B. Watson interjected.
The SPEAKER : Member for Albany!
Dr K.D. HAMES : Please! The question was —
(1) Can the minister provide any guarantee to
dentists and dental clinic assistants that the attraction and retention benefit
will continue?
(2) Does the minister acknowledge that
without the attraction and retention benefit these health care professionals
will have a pay freeze
(3)
Will the minister intervene to ensure that the attraction and retention benefit
is retained
I do not know that I answered that question at the time, but I have
certainly since answered yes. That is exactly the issue we were discussing out
there today.
Mr A.P. O'Gorman interjected.
Mr R.H. Cook : So they keep the ARB and lose all their
conditions associated with it.
Dr K.D. HAMES : People seem to be confused between two
issues.
The SPEAKER : Members!
Mr A.P. O'Gorman interjected.
The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup!
Dr K.D. HAMES : People seem to be getting confused between
two issues. One is the issue of wages for staff, which were negotiated with the
union and the members in 2010. An agreement was signed. Those increases in
wages are in place. Along with government wages policy, staff got a four per
cent increase in April. They will get another four per cent increase in July.
That is one side of the equation. The other side was what I committed to doing
as per the member's question. That is the issue before us today. That
is what we are offering the union today. It has nothing to do —
Mr R.H. Cook : You are making them surrender conditions.
Dr K.D. HAMES : I will get to that. It has nothing to do —
Several members interjected.
The SPEAKER : Take a seat, minister. Minister for Agriculture and Food, I call you
to order for the first time today. While I am on my feet, I formally call the
member for Joondalup to order for the first time today.
Dr K.D. HAMES : That is exactly what we have put in place.
To do that we have switched them from the category they were in to a new
category, so that the $3 000 that dental clinic assistants got as a bonus now
forms part of their base salary. When they get the four per cent increase next
year, instead of being on the pay that was without that bonus, they will be on
the pay that includes the bonus. There is a requirement for a couple of changes
to get it to match the exact level within the Department of Health, which
requires 38 hours' work a week instead of 37.5 hours, so an extra six
minutes a day. I think I actually said six hours outside, which got a bit of a
boo, but it is six minutes a day in additional work.
Mr A.P. O'Gorman interjected.
Dr K.D. HAMES : There is incessant interjection from one
person. I am trying to answer the member for Kwinana. Two days' long
service leave for new staff —
Mr A.P. O'Gorman : Ask them.
The SPEAKER : Member for Joondalup, I formally call you to order for the second
time today.
Dr K.D. HAMES : There is a change with regard to the
accrual of long service leave, which again is for new staff. The members out
there put it to me, with a genuine belief, that their wages would go down. I
said to them that if they think they will go down, they should write to me
individually and I will answer them. If they do a collective pro forma letter
to me, then it will obviously have come from the union and I will answer to the
union instead and it can distribute my response. During a break I went back to
the Department of Health representative who is dealing with salaries and
conditions and said that everyone out there believed that their wages were
going down and asked whether the representative was absolutely certain that
that is not the case. I have before me a document that I will table that shows
that the salaries of dental clinic assistants will remain unchanged. It states
that for first-year dental clinic assistants the actual earning difference in
2011–12 will be 6.3 per cent—I will just do one column, as the
figures are the same for both columns. The actual earning difference for
first-year dental clinic assistants is 6.3 per cent, for second-year dental
clinic assistants it is a difference of 2.1 per cent, for third-year assistants
it is zero, for fourth-year assistants it is zero, for fifth-year assistants it
is 0.1 per cent and so on for sixth, seventh and eighth-year assistants. There
are increases. Not one of those is a decrease in actual salary. The actual
salary they will earn over a year —
Mr R.H. Cook : Once you factor in the loss of conditions,
it is a pay drop.
The SPEAKER : Member for Kwinana!
Dr K.D. HAMES : Those things are factored in and it is not.
I will table it.
Mr R.H. Cook : Once you factor in the loss of conditions
it is a loss.
Dr K.D. HAMES : It is not a loss.
Mr R.H. Cook : They are going backwards.
Dr K.D. HAMES : They are not going backwards. What we had
to do was to match their existing salaries —
Mr R.H. Cook : You are sending a clear message that you do
not value their service to the community.
The SPEAKER : Member for Kwinana, if you want a supplementary question, seek a
supplementary.
[See paper 5126.]
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